MMA Fighting - BTL | Jon Jones vs. Stipe Miocic, UFC 309, Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

It's a massive week in the combat sports world as UFC 309 goes down this Saturday at Madison Square Garden, headlined by Jon Jones vs. Stipe Miocic for the UFC heavyweight title. On Friday night, Jake Paul and Mike Tyson compete in a boxing match, the first ever event of its kind to stream on Netflix. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel answers questions in regards to both big events, Jones vs. Miocic, what to hope for, and expect in the Paul vs. Tyson bout, and which fight will be more competitive. Additionally, they'll talk Charles Oliveira vs. Michael Chandler, the biggest storylines outside of the main events, and much more. Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew on a special Tuesday edition of the program for a mega fan Q&A. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, Mom. Wow, you know it is a big day.

You know it is a big week when we get the iconic voice of Estalin live. Introing a very special Tuesday edition of BTL. Happy Tuesday to us all, ladies and gentlemen. We are live. We are ready because there's a lot going on this week. We got, of course, on Saturday, UFC 309 at the Mecca, Madison Square Garden. John Jones versus Steepa Miche Miche-Meachich, a fight we've been talking about for what seems like a decade. Michael Chandler, Charles Olivera, five-rounder in the co-main event. And then the night before, we got Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson. You can feel however you feel about that. That's okay. Because before that, we get Amanda Serrano versus Katie Taylor, too. And that is a tremendous. And today on this special Tuesday edition, mega Q&A edition, your questions all show long and joining me to answer your questions, Mr. Doe Gray area, the hot take kid, the Baron of Boop, and the president of the Mike Bobo fan club. He is Jed Micheux joining us from the ATL. How are we doing, buddy? Doing so good. We are finally here, Mike. In like, what's today's,

what Tuesday? In like eight days, we can just be done with John Jones. it'll be so great. I'm giving a buffer. There will be some talk afterwards, but I figure by mid next week, it'll be on to Macau, and we can be done with this nonsense saga that's taken up all of our lives

for the past 18 months or however the how long it's been. I think it's been actually a little bit longer than that, but it seems way longer than that. And of course, joining us from the Dallas-Fort Worth area near Arlington, Texas, the site of Jake Paul versus Mike Tyson,

E. Casey Liden on the Ones and 2's, the baddestash in all of MMA. Look at the shirt. Look at the shirt. A little Mike Tyson's punchout tribute. That's fantastic. I show up in Dallas and they just throw all this free merch at me. I love it.

Get with it, UFC. Get with it. Is Jose getting a cool Jones-Stepe retro shirt? No. Boxing is where it's at. Influencer boxing, baby. Yes. when I guess when you have an event on Netflix, the merch comes out and it's pretty damn cool.

I can't lie. That is a pretty damn cool shirt. We got a good show and you will control all of the narratives of said show. So put your questions in the chat. We'll pull them up. Of course, the super chatters get the VIP treatments. They get the jump to the front of the line. But let's go.

Let's talk Jones, Mietich. Let's talk 309. Let's talk Paul Tyson. Let's talk all sorts of stuff. Would it be funny if nobody asked any questions about UFC 309? We're just like, nobody cares, and we're just not talking about John Jones at all. I think it would be hilarious. Just nothing about UFC Vegas 100 questions.

I love it. Yes. Let's dive in deep, deep on pinniade the hitter as the future middleweight champion and the current middleweighty middleweight champion. Oh, yeah, the lifelong middleweighty, middleweight champion. How was UFC Apex 100? I didn't get a chance to watch it. It banged. It banged.

That's good. It was 11 fights like eight first round finishes or something very stupid. So the pacing was terrible, but as a rewatch event, unbelievable. Oh, as a rewatcher. You can go like, it was pacing that happens when every fight ends in the first round. You've got a gap. You've got 15, 20 minutes wait before the next one comes out. So that was whatever.

But fun finishes. The RDR fight was hilarious. Main event was cool. Like it was the platonic ideal of an apex event. Love it. Love it. All right. Some questions.

Do, do, do. Kenny. Kenny, which outcome do you want more and which one is more likely? One, Tyson KOs, Paul, two Steep A. KOs Jones. Jed, I think I know where you're going with this, but have at it. Very obviously, the one you should want more is for Steep A to knock out John Jones. It will be, I've said this many times in the lead-up, and I will, believe it until it is no longer a possibility.

The funniest thing that this sport has ever had happened in it. And maybe the funniest thing in the history of sports in general. I don't know. The butt fumble, incredibly funny. Watching Mack Jones get thrown through the ground on the last play of his functional Patriots tenure. Mike, I'm sure you know exactly the play I'm talking about. Super funny.

Like, there are other funny things that happen in sports, but nothing would be as funny. like imagine the UFC to whatever Sean Strickland winning the belt was 280 something I don't know the post show we had for that where all we did was laugh for 90 minutes

about Sean Strickland beating Israel a diss in his ass it would pale in comparison to how freaking amusing it would be because I saw Luke Thomas tweeted I think it was Luke so I apologize if I'm wrong and I put in words in his mouth maybe it was Caposa whoever it was

tweeted something yesterday. As John has just really up to his media this week in like the worst ways possible, it was like the premise of it was hard to imagine like a year ago telling me a fighter would go up and win a second belt and it hurt their legacy. But John Jones is really, really trying to make that happen with just the horrible way he's carried himself. And the coup de grace, the piece de resistance of this all, be if John does all this and then gets knocked out.

Because today, I don't know if you guys even saw this, because I just saw the clip earlier today. I don't know who he was talking to, but John is doing a media thing and he says, I think, paraphrasing, fighting Steepay is a good matchup for me right now because there's a lot of uncertainty with my career. I'm coming off this injury,

and so I think it's good to fight Stepe now. That is saying the quiet port out loud. It is specifically saying, I'm glad I'm fighting this old. old-ass dude who can't beat me because I'm coming off this serious injury. I'm getting a little older, probably not as good as I once was. This is a good time for me to get a free roll. And so, like, for all of that to happen.

And for them to get knocked out would be the funniest thing in this world. I could die happy if it were to happen. And so Paul Tyson does not, it's not in the same ballpark of outcome, in part because I could not care less if Tyson knocks out Jake Paul. I don't care for Jake Paul. I don't hate him, but it's not my cup of tea. Mike Tyson is unabashedly a bad human being. And because it happened a while ago,

we all have just sort of allowed it to be a fine now. But like, this is not a let like convicted rapist. Like it's just, that's out there and never once apologize for it, to my knowledge. So like, you know, fuck them. I don't, don't give him. a shit if he wins his fight this weekend. So absolutely, as far as likelihood,

neither's happening. It is probably more likely that Tyson knocks out Jake Paul just because he can still hit kind of hard for 60 seconds or whatever, but neither is happening, so it's whatever. Casey, someone asked this prior to UFC Vegas 100

on the People's Free Fight Show. What fight do you think ends up being more competitive? Paul Tyson or Steve A versus John? Both these fights are just so stupid. And like I even had I even had to bust out my iPhone calculator because I was trying to figure out what's who has the higher combined age in the main event. And I think Paul Tyson beats it by like four years. If you can if you add both ages up of each competitor. But more it was the question, more competitive fight?

Yep. I'm going to go Jones, I'm going to go Jones, Stepe. It's going to be more competitive. Because I think, I just can't imagine Jones, I'm sorry, Tyson and Paul being a good fight. It's either going to be just, I just feel it's going to be one-way traffic real fast in that fight. But I think, as a fight gets closer, I'm going, man, when I'm hearing more about Jones. Like when the fight was first announced like five, six years ago, Jones-stipe, I felt Jones is going to just walk, through Stepe, but the way more Jones is talking, how kind of like, oh, I don't want basically

ducking Tom Aspinall, I'm kind of going, okay, Jones is just, we already knew he's past his prime, but way past his prime. And I feel Stepe has a little in him still to make it competitive, much more competitive than the gone fight. But so, yeah, that's a long answer, yeah. The cage fight will be slightly more competitive. No, Jen? Oh, you're going on.

Tyson Paul, because I, and this could be entirely naive of me, I believe that Jake Paul is aware enough to understand what this is. And I believe that because for his many faults, and there are many, he mostly does understand brand management. And when he has aired on that, there's been. reasons or whatever. I have to imagine that the people around him and himself are aware that he does not really gain anything by knocking out a 60-year-old man. And that going out there and just laying him out is a bad look. And I think he would. Like in a fair, true-to-account fist fight at this

stages of their life, Jake Paul has some ability to hit people hard and he's fighting a damn near senior citizen. He would hit him hard and Mike Tyson will fold up. Even the dude, like the promo shit they're putting out, the whatever, they did the training montage last where the footage were like, oh, Mike Tyson dropped a training partner in sparring. He looked awful. He looked amazing for a 58 year old dude, but he looked every bit of 58 in his training.

Like, yes, he is an unbelievable shape for being 60. he's fucking 60 man like it is just what it is and I have to believe that Jake Paul understands enough to know I can't kill this guy for many reasons and so I think that will turn into

a glorified sparring session the concern is that Mike Tyson doesn't have that level of awareness in him and then just tries to fight and Jake Paul has to actually fight back in defense even if that happens

Mike Tyson is not going to fight for more than six minutes on Friday. Like he's just, he's an old man. He's an old fucking man. Like if you were watching this at home, imagine fistfighting your dad or grandfather. How long do they have in them to fistfight you? They don't.

It's just, this is what it is. I am concerned that this should not be sanctioned, but I got to think that it will be competitive because it will just become a sparring session. Do you think Jake, sorry, do you think Jake is, um, talented enough to carry Mike a bit? Like, like Mayweather Connor?

This iteration of Mike, yes. By carry, it'll be, it would be jabbing and moving around a lot. It like, it won't be like, because when Conner, when Mayweather carried Connor, there was just a lot of other, like, it was, there was a lot of defense and it will just be, I'm going to stay away from him. We'll do a little more clenching than usual. Um, work the body, maybe a little more. And so I think in general, yes, but I guess we're going to find out. Yeah, the last time we saw a former world champion boxer who is in terrific shape, fight a guy without a ton of boxing experience, was Vitor Belfort fighting Evander Holyfield.

And Vitor Belfort has never recovered from that knockout. He went out there and just blitzed him and hit him with everything he had. And the whole build to that fight, because I remember asking Beecho Belford about Jake Paul fighting Tyrant Woodley. Because I think that first fight happened not long before that. And he was like, how dare you compare me to Jake Paul or Tyrod Woodley? I would never go anywhere near Jake Paul. That's a joke. It's a farce.

It's ridiculous. He goes out there and obliterates of Andrew Holyfield. He celebrates like he just won the frigging World Cup. And then what does he do? He calls out Jake Paul on the microphone in front of Donald Trump and everybody else. Like he has never recovered from that. I don't even think he's fought since because it's just. Yeah, he boxed jockey.

Oh, yeah. Last year, last year earlier this year. That's right. That's right. I don't remember that. That's, yeah, I don't remember that. That's everything right now. So we are clear.

Mike Tyson is the exact same age Holyfield was in the Vitor Belfort fight. The exacts like that is, this is it. And I think you're spot on Mike. I just think Jake Paul is smart enough to know I gain nothing by knocking out Mike Tyson and it is very possible that I immediately off putting to huge swaths of people because this will be massively viewed.

This is not influencer boxing Jake Paul. This is not him doing the shit he's done the last few years. If he goes and on Netflix in front of 100 million people, however many are going to watch this, it will be massively viewed. One of, if not the biggest combat, like viewed combat sports things of this century.

And he just kills the old man. He has to understand that that is not good for him or for anyone. And so I think it has to be competitive because he just can't do it. He can't be that dumb. So later today is the open workout.

So this will, so I remember the open workouts for Holyfield Vitor. And when Holyfield came out for the open workouts, everyone was all like, you know, was that, am I, am I remember that correct? Oh, no, yeah, he looked. He looked real bad on the middle. Okay, I was trying to make sure I remember it correctly. That was, that was one of the most memorable days of my combat sports career, because I interviewed a Vander Holyfield before the open workout.

And I was horrified, just talking to the man. He couldn't put a sentence together. And I was like, what is happening here? Like, why are we doing this? And he took this fight on like a week's notice. They moved the whole frigging card from California to Florida because Florida was the only state that would sanction a Vanderholyfield to fight anybody. And then he went and did the open workout and it was just like, oh boy.

And then the question was, is he just trolling? Is this gamesmanship in the Vanderholyfield? And boy, it wasn't. It was real tough to watch. And then he just got annihilated in there. and I was 50 feet away from it. And it was just, it was sad, man. The whole thing was sad.

Well, that's why I guess we're, let's see if Mike actually hits the mic, hits the pads hard and doesn't just, you know, shadow box for 15 seconds and, you know, gets out of there. But from all accounts, I've heard, as far as just like, maybe just Mike's persona's intensity, I'm just taking this from Esther because she's been really longer. She said, Mike, actually, I mean, Esther, this is, I'm kind of jumping subject short. jumping topics real quick, but she said, no, she's been, she's photographed Connor, she's

photographed John, she's photographed all these big name fighters. She said the aura that Mike Tyson had when he walks into a room was like just next level. And he had an intensity to him. Like, he wasn't kind of like, he's like, he's already has this kind of fight week. Like, I'm no more Mr. Nice guy, no more like happy Mike Tyson. So I don't know. I'm, I'm going to try to stay. That's my concern. My concern is that Mike does not understand what this is and that Mike gets into fight or flight mode and starts fighting and Jake Paul will be forced to fight him back. Yeah. And that will go horrifically poorly for Mike Tyson at this stage of his life. I want to, I can't be more clear. I am not saying that Jake Paul is a better boxer than

Mike Tyson. He has never nor will ever be a better boxer than Mike Tyson at Mike Tyson's prime. I am saying the 27-year-old Jake Paul will knock out 58-year-old Mike Tyson if they get into a real fight. Yeah. Jed, have you ever, like, grappled, like, high-level grapplers, but they're old, like, 50-plus. Yeah. And I feel like that's going to be a lot of that. Like, in the same way, I'm assuming boxing is going to say, like, the first, like, 90 seconds, it's dangerous. But no matter what age is just age.

And they just can't keep the cardio up. So when I go against like bigger dudes, bigger, stronger guys who are in their 50s, the first like 90 seconds, like, oh, my God, oh, my God. But then then reality kicks in. They gas bad, no matter how in shape they are. And then, you know, you just do what you want to do. So, yeah, I'm interested to see, interest is the wrong word, but it'd be positive. Interested to see if Mike can get past that 97.

seconds, you know? It's the old adage of I'm as good once as I ever was, but I'm not as good as I once was. Like for a minute, veteran savvy and like the ability. And if Mike Tyson, if I were to sit here and get punched by Mike Tyson, it would not go very well for me. Like power's the last thing to go. His power is clearly diminished from Mike Tyson, Mike Tyson. He can still hit pretty hard. and if he lands, sure, that could be an issue but he's got what, six bullets in the gun?

Mike's got maybe six strong punches in him. Like, if this were a real thing and then he will just be an old, tired man in there. And like, this is, I am genuinely concerned about this fight and I've tried to be positive

because the likelihood that something goes really negative is relatively small, but like, I genuinely think, and I wrote about this this week in our roundtable about this event, I think that the fans tuning into this do not understand this shit at all. And I hope that they never have to learn this shit. But the adage of you don't play boxing is so fucking real because you don't play this. This is every time you hear fighters say shit like, I'm willing to die in there.

That's because that is true. And in boxing, it is especially true. Like, on average, about 13 people a year die in the ring. Like, this is not a fucking game. And we are really tempting the gods with this one. 95, 99% that nothing bad happens. Everyone gets paid. Great.

I sincerely hope that is the outcome. I truly do not think because people have lived in this bubble and they are, you know, or they're casual fans or Jake Paul fans. They do not understand the dire, severe consequences that are at stake in this sport and in a matchup like this. And so I am like, I've been genuinely concerned since this was first announced. I was, I was immediately like, yeah, we should super never do this when Mike had the medical episode that bumped this back.

And I am still just kind of just clutching my pearls, I guess, and hoping for this to go fine on Friday. I hope this is very much like Tyson Roy Jones Jr. Where it's like they're trying a little bit. That would be awesome. And that was like a fun watch. I enjoyed myself watching that fight. That is the upside.

That's the hope is that this is Tyson Jones Jr. All right. Well, we'll have plenty of time to talk about this fight on our preview show later this week. But we'll get to other questions. Because I still have got to talk about this fight. We have so many questions. Thank you. Let me get super chats right now.

Last day and thoughts on the steepa custom. I assume this is custom shorts. Jed, please. Just please. I'm very excited to hear you verbalize this into a line microphone. I honestly, I thought they were divine. Not because they're good. Well, because they're the most on-brand shorts.

Like, one, I say this a lot. I don't know if you all agree with me. I don't want to put those words you in your mouth. I certainly have espoused this and others have as well. that the UFC is not a particularly creative company. That largely the people, either the people they hire in creative spaces have limited ideas or more likely the sort of overarching impetus for creative ideas is neutered by this sort of drive to have a monochromatic vision for everything.

There's not a lot of room for expression of personality. These are the most bland personal fight. shorts of all time. The fact that Chandler also got like the same garbage ass fight shorts, they're the same thing only instead of doing the checkerboard, it's like the American stripes and the stars stripes or whatever is just these are, oh, okay, the first time you did custom shorts was like, those are pretty gnarly. And then you've had a couple of cool ones, a couple of ones there's like, I'm not entirely sure why we're doing this. Like I get it, but maybe it's a little stretch to do Dustin Porreier with a floral pattern. Like I know that he wears those shirts, but like

something with the floor to lee would make a little more sense and then now we're just now we're on iteration eight nine and it's just like okay uh i think john joneses aren't good like i don't they're they're very like i don't there's nothing unique germane to him in a way that really sings out and but then the steepe ones being like dude just give him like the crow cop just give him the check of war from crocop if you're going to do this shit not whatever the hell these things are they are bland and lifeless like get it. I don't know why him and Chandler just have all black shorts basically with like it is it is so bland and so lifeless. It is so indicative of my broader creative issues with the company.

But I do think it's incredibly on point for Steve Amityitch who has never been somebody who's particularly interesting. So why not have bland lifeless shorts for him? It is wow to those shorts because right when I got here like Esther, like this is just, This is one of about 10 different custom shirts they have for this fight. There's 10 other ones. And they all look freaking awesome, by the way. I just wore this because everyone knows the punch out. But like, it's just crazy that, you know, the creative bankruptcy that UFC has.

I don't, yeah, just, yeah. The part that always drives me insane is because, like, we've done this on the poster game for years at this point. Like the posters, the UFC 300 poster, 300 was literally like an MS paint preset, Doc, where they just threw the flag option with gold through 300 on it. Like truly anyone could have made that. The part of this that kills me when it's stuff like this is like, and the Charles Olivares, I don't really get, maybe I miss something about them. They are at least identifiably unique, but it's still, you know, I don't think there's a lot there.

The part that kills me is ostensibly they have a team of people that work on this, that get paid money to do so. And there are dozens of fans who do better shit online for minimal clout, like, who do their own fight posters that are just better, who if you just like, hey, go to J. Romero or whatever, I'm like, hey, man, like take a crack in designing some custom shorts, see how they go. Like, any of, there's so many creative people around the space. And like I said, I do not know the team of the UFC.

And so if you are listening to this and I am throwing you under the bus, I am very sorry. What you are allowed to show the world has just never been all that interesting. And I don't know if that's a U issue or if that's the company mandate. But it was just like, it feels like such a low lift to do better than what we're getting here. Yeah, and then compared to John shorts, which are like, they put all the effort in the John shorts. Yeah, I still think they're terrible though. I still don't get it though. I mean, effort went into it for sure. Literally the Stepe and the Chandler shorts are the same short. It's you've just swapped the Croatian spit for the stars and stripes. Like they are the same

black and gray short with like it is like don't even call those custom is a real like that's a real stretch. It just has their names on them. Yeah. That's the custom. We're all like the fight shorts have their names on them. Yeah. It's just like all fight shirts at their different font. Yeah. It's like I don't get it, man.

I feel like we could do better. We bought peaked with the Gibler shirt, but after that it went downhill. One of my great regrets in the sport is I didn't buy one of those. A Gibler. I should have just bought it when you could have just to have it. Wait. Look at.

So if hoodies, MVP hoodies, look at the back of these. They're like super. nice. Mm-hmm. That's, it's crazy, man. They had like 20 versions of like different, oops.

And just simple things, just simple things. This also speaks, this also speaks Casey to something that is related to this, but very different to me. I think the idea of custom fight shorts is fun insofar as it's very stupid because all fighters should be able to design their own fight shorts.

But if you're going to take away, you know, that right from fighters, having some level of this is a cool perk to being great, successful, et cetera. It also, like, I am never going to buy fight shorts from the UFC store. I don't know who does. I know you can, like, buy them to what purpose? Like, what are you? Like, I don't, that just doesn't.

Whereas I would buy shirts. I have many shirts, but I'm never going to buy use a boring ass shirt, like random UFC fight kit. So like the jerseys are garbage. So why not also do custom shirts for the fighters that are interesting and specific or event shirts like that? Like if Alt genuinely feels like there is a merchandising business aspect to this that they just don't care about. It's like, nah. Because I don't, how many fight kits have you seen in real life, like in the wild? Oh, it's weird.

Less than five for me. It's very, very rare. If you take out Connor, take out Rhonda, take out John, maybe I've seen like two ever. Yeah, it's just, they're not there. So like it just feels like you're losing a big merchandising area where you could have cool design stuff on T-shirts like Casey's wearing. Like, ah, all right, here's a merch booth. I'll buy some of that shit and that'll be dope and now I can wear it around. My friends know I went to UFC 306 or whatever.

Thank you. Thank you, last dance. All right. Super chat from Alex Aldridge. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it?

Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. Way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bel Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply.

Say Stepe Ice is John, then post-fite Steepay retires and denies John the rematch. What does John do next? cry retiring on a loss would cause his giant ego to collapse in on itself like a dying star. So this is an interesting question because I saw clips of this. You mentioned Luke Thomas, him being asked this on submission radio, Jed, what happens if John does lose his fight? Like we would laugh and have a great time with it. But when we look at where John goes, what his legacy looks like, what this means for John Jones, the fighter, what does it mean? Where does he go if he loses?

Come on, man. You know, he'll have lost and he will be quiet for a minute. And then he'll tweet something. He'll get real wide receiver-ass tweets going. If you guys know that internet meme of a wide receiver tweet, John will get extremely wide receiver tweeting. He'll just, it'll start with a couple of like, you know, y'all don't know my story.

The enemy moves silently. some shit like that and then it'll be like we'll get the dare to be great like absolutely going to get the dare to be great you know I came in off of longest layoff of my longest biggest injury of my career

18 months out whatever the layoff is two years fighting against the greatest of all time and robbery it was a bad stoppage whatever they like there will be some it will be a a wonderful

stew of denial anger and just coping going on in there and it will be just delicious. The thing that I am interested in is if he loses, I don't know what happens. Because under normal circumstances, I would say, the only way that John's ego could ever rest, that he could ever be at peace such that that man is capable of finding peace. which I'm not sure he is, but such thing he's able to, I would guess that the only way is if he could, okay, now I will fight Tom Aspinall because I need to get something back from what I lost. The issue being if Steepa knocks your ass out, which is, I think, is the only real way Stepey wins is to knock out, John.

But if Steepay beat you, you can't feel great about your odds against old Tommy A. So I just don't know I don't think he has the humility to say I got got and I'm too old for this shit I can't do this anymore and so I need to just accept that I now have a loss I can't bury my head in the sand and pretend isn't one but I just don't know if he can do that

and so maybe that it might be where John becomes BJ Pinn and Tony Ferguson and all these dudes where he's like, I got to get, I got to get this back. I cannot end in this way. And then suddenly the undefeated John Jones is staring down the end of his career where he's taking multiple losses because he don't have it anymore. Like anything could be possible.

I desperately hope we get to find out. God. Can you imagine if John loses and then he just kind of goes quietly into that good night and then three months later he starts barking at Aspedal and then Aspedal just like denies him. It would just be the best. It would really be the best. But it'd be pretty damn sick. I don't think it's going to happen.

But it would be it's it's a fun thing to think about. I think he wouldn't bark at Asperol in so much that he would just bark at Steepay to get him out of retirement to get it back with Steepay. Yeah. I think that's where you'd have to start. Maybe. I'm in my head that would be incredibly stupid, but people do dumb things, particularly when there's a lot of money to be made.

Yep, and that's it. A lot of money to be made. All right. I want it to happen so bad. M.A. gods, I ask you for so very little. I will stand here on, on air and say this. MMA gods, I'll never ask you for anything again, ever, just this once.

it's all I need it would be so fun God it would be so fun I don't even want to put my thoughts out there because I have to see it you know just because I have just too many thoughts you know what but

I want to get to this comment real quick because we might be losing some fans watching the cynicism and negativity in this episode of BTL is just out for me I can only take so much of these guys whining who the fuck is whining That's okay, man

That one's whining It's also Like, also it's fine Charlie Like I get it If you This is like we have been Objectively negative And if that's not your bag

I get it Like there are plenty of other Because people say stuff like this all the time And I want I want to be really clear I do not hold the grudge If I am not for you If this stuff is not to your taste

I get it man There's a lot of stuff out there That's not to mine I have never ever once gone to like been watching a show and been like, oh, I don't care for this. I would like to let them know that I don't care for this and then I'll continue watching. I just turn it off and go do something else that I like. I absolutely agree that you should do the things you like.

And if this is not for you, I will sorry you miss you. Check us back later on when there's a happier topic of discussion. Maybe this would be for you. And that's totally reasonable. Like I do not begrudge you doing things that interest you. I think it's a little weird that you're just very vocal about it when you could just turn it off. There's other people who are doing preview shows. YouTube has an almost infinite number of videos you could watch about any other thing.

Go do that, man, and be well. Like, I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, UFC embedded's probably dropping in a little bit. That'll be real positive for you. Yeah, you're good. But like, I'm not going to change who I am. I am who I am. And I am not going to sit here and pretend that this shit smells.

like roses because it doesn't. I get it is not. There are people out there who will give you that content and I encourage you to go check them out. Check out UFC.com. They have lots of great content out there. And there's a four-part docu series

on this fight on Netflix. So yeah. Do you guys, watched any of that? I watch. I can't decide if I'm in, if I just want to see it to at least be, I don't want to see it for me,

but maybe I want to be aware of it because obviously the importance to our space, etc. So give me your thoughts. I watched the first two, mostly just to see if there's anything for content for the website. I learned absolutely nothing from either of the episodes. So that's one thing. I didn't learn anything. But it's also not for you, right?

Exactly. Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. the coolest part of it all and it's one that like everybody's talked about and I was lucky to see it before everybody started tweeting about it was when they showed Mike Tyson watching Jake knock out Mike Perry and then he called Pump Mike out and Mike was like he's a manufactured killer I'm a natural born killer whatever was like good line that was pretty cold that was pretty freaking cold that was cool very very cool and then kind of like Tyson going back to Brooklyn and stuff was kind of cool or wherever that that area was. There's a person,

a person walks up to Mike and like takes a selfie with him. He goes, yeah, man, you robbed me like 25 years ago or whatever when Tyson was like running the streets. And the guy's like, yeah, I love you, Mike. You robbed me when I was like 12 or something, which is pretty funny. Yeah, I like actually. That's a ridiculous. That's a ridiculous interaction.

Yeah, dude. There's a few. But I could see that. Like, can you imagine getting, oh, I got jumped in high school by like, you know, the guy who turned out to be like the greatest whatever ever, you know, you get through it. It's a story you have now, you know. It is definitely a story. Yeah. Also, the day you realize that happened just has to be fun.

Wait, I think that dude fucking robbed me. Wait, the youngest heavyweight champion in the history of boxing, he robbed me. That guy. That dude's on ESPN. The fuck. I should be in a statology page. Actually, I always saw the first episode, and I did enjoy it because I'm not like a big Tyson guy, you know, for, you know, reason that Jed said. But take that away and just learning about the history of him and him going back to Brooklyn.

And I love that, actually, that scene where I think he's in the car and, you know, everyone's like, you know, Mike, Mike, and then he talks about his wife saying, what was it? If no one recognized you, Mike, you know, walking outside one day, it would kill you. And he's like, yeah, you're probably right. You know, and these are just, I've never seen, seeing prize fighters talk about fame is interesting to me. Because that's the part I just don't really, we see him in the ring for like 15 minutes, you know, press conferences. But that kind of life, oh, wherever they go, they go to, they go to Chili's. Everyone's like still bothering them, you know?

It's just interesting. So I did enjoy it. And it did get me more. interested in the fight. Did not get me more interested in the actual competition, but the story of the fight, so I liked it. Yeah, check it out. The third episode just dropped today, I think.

Is there any part of the other fights? Because I will say that that has been an interesting facet to this for me this week. And for the past month, I understand that there's clearly a headliner here that is drawing the attention. and for whatever knocks I may have against Jake Paul, one thing that I do give him a ton of props for is consistently promoting women's boxing, specifically Amanda Serrano,

and just like always folding that into him, into his stuff. And like, I think all that's great. Because it is so, because the top is so big, I have seen next to no discussion about Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano too, which was the fight of the year or two, three years ago, how many years ago that was,

which is obviously like the best fight of the weekend, full stop across all combat sports. And so does that get any play in the show or is the show entirely Tyson and Paul? Very, very little. Very little. Not surprised. I just didn't know.

Yeah, very little. But maybe the third episode is more of it. I don't know. But the first two is very little. It was them at the press conference and, you know, Jake talks about it and says, like, he thinks Amanda won the fight and all that. But, yeah. I almost think that they shouldn't have put it as the co-main for this because I understand the idea. I think it is, it overshadowed, it is overshadowed too much.

Whereas with other events, it can be, like previously when there's been, when Amanda Serrano's fought, she has been able to grab some spotlight as well because the the marquee event is not so big. This one is so massive to the casual observer. It is sucking up all the air in the room that there is not enough space for this fight to breathe, in my opinion. And I understand the concept. I just think as it's played out, maybe even they would agree, maybe we should have not overlap these two things. I do feel that way now, but I'm going to reserve judgment to see how the end of the fight week goes to the press conference, over workouts and things like that.

But right now, I do lean toward what you're thinking. As much as I love that fight initially when they said it, now as it's coming along, I'm like, I keep having to remind myself, oh, that is on this car. That is actually the best fight at the weekend. So, yeah. And you're totally right, Casey. Like, give it the fight week, maybe that changes. Absolutely. Yeah, this is what they're doing is old school, like,

Coker just got to Bellator type booking, where they put the fight with the well-known commodities on there. They have them do all the heavy lifting in terms of promotion, but then you're still getting like these up-and-coming superstars you need to pay attention to. So while you're waiting for that, you get to watch these two world-class boxers beat the hell out of each other. And at least you can come away with it being like,

oh, I didn't even know who she was or I didn't know who Katie Taylor was. I do now. So maybe that's what they're hoping for. And there's a world where this lands perfectly. And there is certainly a reasonable piece of this being like, if nothing else, Katie Taylor made a Surinor 2 on Netflix, the most viewed combat support event of the year. Like, that makes sense. I have just felt increasingly as we've gotten closer that that fight has become such an afterthought.

to the extent that it is thought of at all, because the gravity of Paul and Tyson is so enormous. All right. Thank you much. Herbert, what is Cyril Gons' career arc going forward? P.S. E. Casey Liden, the goat for real. Yes, he is. If you haven't seen timeline, that is the reason why. Absolutely knocked out of the park again. Two hours, almost a two-hour timeline.

Go check out. You can listen to it as well on the pod network. Well, we know where Cyril Gons. career arc is right now because he's about to fight Alexander Volkov at UFC 310 in December. So we can kind of gauge that on December 11th after that fight. Yeah. Long term, I genuinely have no idea. I think the, I mean, the hope is that he wins a belt if you're him. He beats Volkov again and then he gets to fight Tom Aspinall. I do think he is a legitimately interesting test for Tom Aspinall. Insofar as Aspinall doesn't usually shoot takedowns, and he is very hitable, and Cyril Gond could hit him.

I'm sure they engaged in a primary striking contest, but he's just going to be a dude. I don't think he'll win, even if that is the outcome we get there. And so he'll just be a guy who gets staying around and be a good, meaningful heavyweight. Hold the Seagong. It's a good question. He's 34. Yeah, I was going to say, low to mid-30s. Still got several years at heavyweight.

yeah he'll just hang around be relevant maybe i mean he's already an interim champion maybe he gets you know maybe he could be tom aspirin well i will see because he won't ever fight john again so but he'll still be one of the five best heavyweights for the foreseeable future all right thank you much chase if he loses they run it back asap dan will book the rematch for bruce announces the winner it'll be too much money for stepe to say no also tom will be screwed which is hilarious i don't know why that's hilarious She said this Some other show we did

In the post show maybe What did he have to do to do? I I yeah Not my definition of hilarious But again We all have our own senses of humor That's true

So And if you just are deeply Anti-Tom Aspinall Look I get it I am deeply You know that there are fighters out there That I hate And so if Tom's one of those guys

For you for whatever reason Okay I think you'll be not alone, but there won't be many people on that island with you. But I think there's a 50-50 chance that what you were saying here is true. Maybe it means it's hilarious because the UFC botched this whole thing by even booking an interim title fight. And it's just all been a disaster ever since. All right. Let's keep the topic on Tommy.

Tommy has been on. is been a... Is that man that you're saying about, Jed, the biggest loser on Saturday, if Steepe wins and they do a rematch? Yeah. I mean, if they book a rematch, then for sure.

Yeah, who else could it be? I mean, me? Like, I... Except for no, because then Steepet is won, so I'm the winner. Actually, no. I think John is the biggest loser. because if Steve it wins John lost and I truly cannot express to you that in 15 years, in 10 years,

five years maybe even, it wouldn't take that long, people will come back to, John Jones is the greatest light heavywood of all time, one of the greatest fighters of all time. That part of his career is etched in stone and is irrevocable at this point in time, truly. but he has botched the end of he has botched this so badly the last two years where like Floyd Mayweather is the comparison for John Jones right now like Floyd Mayweather for people who know nothing Floyd Mayweather is the greatest boxer of all times you 50 and oh if you if you simply have only a cursory understanding of boxing and you are born after 1980 you think that Floyd Mayweather must be the greatest boxer of all time.

If you know boxing, if you are deeply ingrained in boxing, and I am not selling you that I am the greatest boxing knower of all time, but I follow the sport deeply enough and I know people who do. Pretty much everybody who knows ball when it comes to boxing is like, Floyd could have been, but Floyd spent the back half of his career dicking around and he's not the best boxer of his generation. Mani Pachiao, who he beat is bet. is a better historical boxer of his generation than him

because of his willingness to challenge himself in ways that Floyd wasn't, because of his unbelievable record, et cetera, et cetera. That is what John has done the last two years is, if he had just retired after the Dominic Reyes fight, undeniable, undeniable where he was at. And even with the Dominic Reyes, hey, he kind of lost there. You saw what happened with GSP. GSP probably lost to Johnny Hendricks,

but he left and then came back, beat Michael Bisping and bailed. And everyone is universally on the page of like, cool, good work. You're the greatest fire you've ever done it. Golf clap for you. But because John did that, but then came back and was real shitty about things. And it was just kind of, if you had just bailed after the gun fight, but because he keeps tweeting because he's chronically online because he has blatantly ducked Tom Aspinall to the extent he has, like,

All of this is going to hurt his image, broadly speaking. It won't kill it. Hall of Famer will be in the conversation. But it's going to hurt him historically as we look at the totality of his career and say, man, I'm not sure he's the goat, you know. Divisional goat, yeah. I don't know, man. Love it.

Keep rolling. Let's keep rolling. Let's do it. Plus, I also do genuinely. feel like John, you won't be able to handle it if he loses. So if he loses, he has got to be the big loser. I'm not taking my mind there yet. I'm just not doing it.

I think we know the answer to this one, but here we go. Steve, do you think the UFC will strip John Jones if he refuses to fight Tom? Sort of. No, but yes. Has it already? I don't think they will frame it as stripping him. I think they will frame it as John's retired. Yeah.

Yeah, John retired. John's not fighting anymore. This is when Terry Francona lost the last game of the season. When the Red Sox played the Orioles, Red Sox needed to win the game to make the playoffs. They lost after they spent a shit ton of money and got Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez and a whole bunch of other people. And we knew that that was Terry Francona's final game as the manager of the Boston. Red Sox. We just knew it. We're like, this dude's got to go. This team and Terry don't mesh. He just, he needs to get out of there. And the Red Sox did not publicly state that he was fired.

Terry Francona, quote unquote, resigned. And that's basically what this would end up being. Now, John continues to say interesting things. He's planting seeds and changing his path slightly with each interview he does. He's gone from, no, no, no. We got to do Alex Pereira champ versus champ to, well, it doesn't need to be a belt in the line. And now it is, let's do a BMF belt and I'll vacate the heavyweight title. So I still think if John wants to pull up the he list of heel moves, it is he needs to, if he beats Depe, you get on the mic, you call Tom in, like you're going to do a face off. And then you just hand him the belt and say, there you go. You want to be the champ?

now you're the champ. And then John shoes him away, says, go sit down, son. And then calls out Pereira for a BMF title fight. Like that would be friggin awesome. Like I would have so much respect for that if he did that. It would be the healist of healy moves. Tom would just be like, wouldn't even really know what to do. But he'd be the champion.

So it's still a win for him. I don't know. I think that would be a great move on his part. I would know what to do if I was Tom. I just be like, I beat John Jones without ever having to fight him. That's it. I didn't even have to fight him and I beat him because that man did. Like, it's a bad idea to be chronically online.

And I say this as a person who is chronically online, both personally and professionally, because I kind of have to be. Like, it is just really bad for you to be chronically online. And John is so that way. Every part of this would look better for him if he, could shut the fuck up. If he could just not tweet and talk and say things and continue to dig this deeper and deeper and deeper. Where it's like a week ago he gives the interview where he's like, I'm not going to fight Tom Aspinall. Tom Aspinall, has it done anything to deserve it?

And we're like, that's very silly. And then the next day, he's like, Tom Aspinall could never do anything to deserve to fight me. I would like to fight Alex Pereira. And then now it's, now it's not even I'll defend the heavyweight belt against Pereira. It's I will obey this title to go fight him for a made-up belt. Not even, I'll go back to light heavyweight to fight him for the belt that I own for 10 years and that he currently holds. Like, it is, he is making it worse every iteration of this. And it's Tuesday.

We got four more days. We got media day tomorrow where I'm sure he's going to make it even worse by saying something else that's very, very silly. The only way that any of this for, again, I am not speaking out of the broad populace. People don't know. They don't consume this to the extent we do. Most fans will just say John Jones has undefeated,

greatest fighter of all time, because that's what Dana says. For the people who know, for the people who are watching this show, the hardcore fan base, they will all be like, yeah, John Jones is one of the greatest fires of all time that he transparently ducked Tom Aspinall

in the most egregious way possible. Unless John fights him, it's the only way to get back, what he himself has just thrown out the past 12 months. Like if he had simply, again, go back to GSP, the end of GSP's career is equally as bad as Johns. Like that whole thing is equally as bad because it's the same. He lost to Johnny Hendricks.

He took a bunch of time off. He came back at the exact right moment to fight an dude. He knew he was going to beat and get a second belt despite the entire, like for the entire. of his career, people like, we want to see GSP go fight Anderson Silva. We want to see him do this. And he's like, nope, I'm just going to stay a welterweight. I'm good.

And then as soon as Bispin gets the belt and GSP is like, free win, I will take the free win in the second title. I will come back. Let's do this. He does. Dana says he's definitely going to defend the belt. We all knew he wasn't. Everybody was clear that what was happening here.

And GSP made it all work because he shut the fuck up. He said, Michael Bispin is a great fighter. I'm very excited to fight him. I'm going to go fight him. And then, uh, medical issues, I'm out. And he just hadn't spoken about this shit since. And everyone tolerates it. I was like, what a hero, what a king.

What a great, great guy. Because John can't shut the fuck up and do the bad thing. That's what this is. This is a bad thing. And we would all tolerate it if he could just not be so John Jones about it all. But because he is, this is the room we're in now, man. It has been a tough month and I'm ready for it to be over. Dude, Jed is on one today.

I'm loving you. I'm loving you, I'm loving you, Jed. Dude, really thank you. Thank you for bringing the GSP comparisons because, I mean, we were all, I mean, I lived in that moment too. But we, but, and like, I, I knew it was so similar and so different, but yet so similar. It's really wild. It is really wild. It is nearly identical.

cool. And I have said the same thing about John that I said for GSP. I do not blame him for this. This is a good business move 100%. I do not blame him for this part of it. What I blame him for is the lying about it. And the acting as if I'm an asshole for seeing clearly what is happening. That is the point. Like, you can do all of this by saying little and just doing it. And everyone will just kind of be like, all right. Not the best thing it's ever happened, but cool. But when you are being so imperious about all of it, it is so off putting in a way that makes, like, just, it's just off put.

It's so off putting. It's the difference between how they carried him is really indicative of the fighters themselves. Because very clearly at the beginning. of John's career, he was trying to be GSP. Not maybe as a fighter or whatever, but he wanted the GSP mold of, I am going to be the professional fist fighter. I'm going to be the professional UFC fighter.

I'm going to carry myself in the way that GSP does. I will be clean cut, stand-up guy. He moved to Albuquerque to be of his coach. Move to Albuquerque. I will be the guy who gets the Nike sponsorship. I will be the guy who helps elevate this sport from skinhead cage fighting, human cock fighting, to professional athlete.

And to some extent he had success with this. I'm not here to diminish that part of his legacy. But very clearly all of that was I put on, which I go watch the timeline. It is so clear to see if you watch the timeline the case you put together of like, here's Christian John Jones being a great guy and Philippi and 310 and up,

just all glory God, blah. And it's slowly like, that's not. who John is. George is that guy at, it's not, it is maybe a bit of a put on, right? He's putting on airs to some extent, but at a baseline, George is just kind of a good dude who likes to rock around with dinosaurs and aliens, you know? John ain't that. And because he is not, the way he has carried this later stage of their career, despite it being eerily similar is so different. And it is so, it starkly shows the difference in the two, in the two of them as people. And certainly, my ability to tolerate it.

You know what's funny is I thought about like the GSP comparison and like everything you said about how GSP handled all this. It was always the promotion. It was always Dana and the UFC brass who said, yeah, he's going to fight Robert Whitaker. Don't worry about it. But GSP never really said that. Never really said that.

He would always be like, he'd play the Belichick role. Yeah, man. I'm focused on Bisbing. We'll see what happens after that. If John just did that the whole time and anytime he was asked about, Tom Asson, I'll be like, look, man, the guy sees his opportunity, went out there and knocked out Sergey Pavich,

guy deserves to be an interim champion. Maybe someday we will, but right now I'm focused on Madison Square Garden, I'm focused on Steepi Meachich. And if John got on the mic and called out Alex Pereira, people would be like, yeah, man, I get it. He's earned the right. They would absolutely say that in the fallout of this,

without question. It is so clearly to like, more evident than anything like George St. Pierre worked with professionals. Like that was his whole thing. It's like, I want to be a professional fighter. I do not want to be a, I want, I am a professional. I'm going to seek out the best trainers, the best people to surround myself. Very clearly, George St. Pierre worked with a PR professional in his career about messaging

and how to do this in the same way that literally every other major sport in the world does. There are swaths of PR people who train, have media training on how to handle situations, tough to easy. And Georgia's exactly to your point, Mike, I'm focused on this. I have a legitimate test, a great fighter in front of me. I must beat him. And John could say the exact same shit. Steepie is the greatest heavyweight of all time.

I'm a light heavyweight. I am still just vacationing up here. I have got to find a way to beat him. and after that I will focus on this. And then to your also to your point right there, Mike, if he does all this shit after, no one cares because you get swept up in the idea of, holy shit, John Jones Versauch,

mind blown, as opposed to doing it weeks in advance where you're like, dude, what are we talking about? Like, you doing something in the wake of knocking out steep in an awesome performance and an arena full of people, there is momentum. Like that is real. and that momentum can take you places. You doing it on the internet weeks in advance

when no one gives a shit and they're ready to pick you apart is bad messaging. It is bad media training and that has been the story of him this whole time. It's like he should not have access to Twitter. There should be a person who manages his Twitter and like as other professional athletes the world overdue. And instead, John gets in his fields late at night

and just starts going. And it always looks back. He never comes out looking good. For the while, the UFC did hire a crisis management PR person that walked around with John for a couple of years. Dude, I have said this long. When you get those questions and stuff like this of like, if you could be president of the UFC for one day, what would you change? It's like, I would change fighter pay, but obviously I can't make that. If there's like one thing that I could enact in the UFC that's a pretty low lift,

I would mandate that every fighter goes through a legitimate media training because it is not hard. And truly every other professional brand in the world does this. Like every sports brand does. It was like, hey, Sean Strickland, I understand like you're free to speak your mind. But maybe let's figure out how to say the things you want to say in a way that's better and not incredibly often to huge swast of people. Like these are, there's just a yes to you. And because I know that there are people, like it's real. The NFL did blah blah.

Like, we're not the NFL. The UFC wishes it was the fucking NFL. The UFC is an incredibly successful business. It doesn't hold a fucking candle to what the NFL brings in and revenue. And the reason the NFL does that shit is because that is how professional people conduct themselves the world over. And it would just be so easy to solve all of these things. and they just let it happen because they make a bunch of money and they don't care.

Just reminder, a good 75% of the roster still has day jobs. I would say maybe 25% of the actual roster actually makes their full-time living off fight checks. And I last thing on this, when we go to the next question, because Lazy Bed pointed this out, and I mentioned it earlier, but I've ranted a lot. So I want to circle back to this as an important point. everything I said stands I will stand by till I die unless John gets on the mic and calls out Tom Aspinall and fights him. If he does that, then this has been the most, and I will eat my crow. I will get a big spoon and eat the whole humble pie. And I will do nothing but give John Jones props

for building this in an untraditional and deeply annoying way. If he fights Tom Aspenol after all of this, Credit to him. Everything I said was wrong. Dunk on me forever. You all, I give you free reign to do so because you absolutely, he will deserve it if he comes out. And this has all been a long con to build a fight with Tom Aspinall. Great. That would be unbelievable.

It would be like, it would be an elite level of trolling and fight building. And I would have nothing to say, but I was wrong. the people who said this were right absolute credit well played full deserve credit to you John Jones I got I had nothing to say that I will eat my crow

if that is the case I remember Dana I will not say I dared to be great I will not say that I dared to be great I remember back in the day Dana would do a good job of this by by taking away fights and the people warning that fights

I remember for a long time people wanted John Fitch versus Josh Kostchek. But they were teammates, so they wouldn't fight. And then that's when Dana did the whole, like, I don't know, like, they, I don't know, I can't remember, like, by just putting it out there that that fight won't happen and he wants it to happen, like the fans wanted it. I don't know, it was just kind of, by taking it away, we want it more type of thing, you know. So it's interesting. Got it, John. It will be incredible fight promotion if he does fight Tom Aspinall.

Full stop. No caveats at all. If this has all been a long plan to build interest and generate interest in this fight and then take it, I fundamentally do not believe that's the case. I will tip my hat to him if it is. That would actually make this whole fight week worth it. If he does just keep it what we think he's going to do and he grabs that mic and just Tom Aspinall, get in this cage right now. you know, ooh, be sick.

Hey, you can be done. Look at what Joaquin Buckley's done this year. Turn the full 180. We got a couple more super chats and we're going to actually talk about things not the main event. Ooh, terrific. All right. Thank you.

Medi, just rewatch the Don't-Davis interview with you? Don't you think PFL would be better off of the president? That's a fight fan and fight fan than just another corporate figure. Dude, this is my favorite thing. I feel like we've talked about it on air, but I don't know if we have or not. The DMs that I was involved in, the Slack messaging, when that came out, was the absolute best. I've given Don Davis's credit and I will. It's not an easy thing to do and take, you know, come into that sort of scrutiny and credit to him.

absolutely baffled that he just came out. I was like, I don't really care about fights. The moment it happened, I was like, did anybody else hear this? Did it, like, it was one of those who were so wild. I was like, I don't know if people are recognizing what this is, but this is the thing that is going to be taken away from this if people see it. And immediately it was. I was like, okay, it's wild.

Yep. It sure was. And I even tried. I tried to get him back in. Like just named him. You tried to save it. And he didn't happen. I was like, oh man.

I couldn't help him. There was not another. I didn't have another like another lifesaver to throw to it. That was it. That's all I could do. It was so funny, man. So I was curating the question. So I'll give him a tough one, tough one.

It's like, all right, here's a fun one. Let's get back to fun. And so I thought, you know, I think we just asked about, you know, the fighter that's in a coma or something. So the next question, let's keep it fun. What's your favorite fight? And then it got worse. Like when that was asked, I was like, oh, that's good.

Like, and then he'll probably, I was like, in my head is like, he's either going to say something dumb, like Kayla versus Pacheco or something, like, something very silly. Or he'll, like, if he's, if he's cagey, he'll be like, fatal crow cop, like old school pride, shit. Like, he would never go UFC related. But then there's just like, yeah, like if you're talking about watching fights to relax, I don't, I don't do that. Okay. Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez won. That's in your brand. That's Bell's your.

Any number of things are available there. And it's also just like, it's such a generic softball that like you should just have like working in the sport, you should have that answer for no other reason than like it has come up in discussion. at some point. Like, I don't know, it might take a minute to think about it, but like, I would just reflectively say one or whatever. It was. Yeah. Or it's just like, man, there's just so many great fights.

It's like asking me what my favorite pizza is. I love them all. I don't know. He just, he said the worst thing. Here's what I'll, here's the, my biggest takeaway from that whole experience and where we are now. Don Davis learned a lot from sitting there for over and hour because a day later, literally a day later, Dana White went to the dais after Power Slap in

friggin Abu Dhabi and lit him a new asshole and just annihilating him. He viciously destroyed him, mostly the company and their heavyweight superfight champion, which is no surprise that this thing is going to go on forever. What did Don Davis do after that? He didn't tweet out a graphic of any kind. There were no charts. He did nothing. He was smart.

He did nothing. He sat back, let Dana have his thing, understands the cycle of the sport that, yeah, it's going to be a tough couple days for you, buddy. But then it's just going to go away because the new cycle switches so quickly. And I think they're just learning. Like they need to be the best PFL they can be and not the co-leader to the UFC. That's what they need to do moving forward. The fact that they're doing the World Championship card

on ESPN Plus for subscribers is a smart move. It's absolutely what they need to do. And next year, they just need to do fun shit with this season. Like them saying, I like the idea of the callout round for the second round of the regular season. Fighters at the most points can come out and then call whoever fighter they want, or they could do a wheel,

or they could do a blind draw or something. Like, I like that. Let's do fun things. And it seems like they're listening at least in attempting to do fun things. The champion series idea, I'm intrigued by it. I'm intrigued.

Hearing Don say, yeah, Bellator's not working. The brand is not working. No one cares to we're still going to do champion series events, but it just may not be under the Belvoir umbrella. Interesting. Interesting. It's less confusing.

So he's learning. We also have to remember. Belator is fulfilling a contractual obligation. And as soon as they are out from that obtrost, then they get to be done with it. We get it. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. So we'll see.

We'll see if this continues on. We'll see what Thanksgiving week's going to look like when they have the World Championship. event. Donham sure is going to do interviews. And I'm sure there's no doubt about it. He's going to be asked about everything Dana said about him. I'm very curious to see how he responds to it. I hope he just leaves it at, look, man, they're doing their thing. We're doing ours. I can't focus on them anymore. If he does that, man, that is a frigging grand slam. That that moment in the town hall crystallized something that I've been thinking about for a while with regard to him as I do not

understand why he is public. I genuinely don't understand why he is the public face of PFL. Because to Medi's question, the PFL actually does have a president that's a fight fan in Race FO. Don is not the president. He is the co-founder and whatever his other titles are of it. Race FFO is the president, I believe, of the PFL. And he is the guy who is at events and does the post-fight press scrums and, you know, talk to him a bunch when I've done PFL stuff. former fighter, like a guy who clearly should be in that role. And to me, it's just like, Don is Lorenzo Fretta, if we're making this an analogy. How often was Lorenzo Fertita out there speaking with MMA people about the sport?

Never. He would very occasionally be doing, he was the business end of things, which is what Don is, he's a businessman. And Lorenzo would do that stuff. And Don can do that stuff. and Don going on whatever MSNBC are like the various other parties that are focused on the economic model and sort of his role obviously is to raise funding for this thing as a business entity. And so doing that totally makes sense. Him coming to our level of things and discussing something that he is pretty limited, just frankly, like pretty limited on because he is not a fan of this world.

He is not a fan of the sport. I do not understand why he is the one who does it other than Ray Sefo because pretty clearly that should be Ray should be Dana and Don should be Lorenzo. Yep. But again, credit to him. He didn't have to come and do the town hall and he did. Like I got respect for the man being willing to put himself in this, but it is just a I do not know why when there is a guy better suited for that role already under the employer of the company. It's tough because Ray doesn't say the things he says either. So Ray's just very, Ray's very, man, he's just very business-like with his responses.

Just, hey, this is what we did. This is what it meant. And Don is a much better public speaker. And says that is the only argument to me for it is that Don does have more charisma and better at that piece of it. But that is pretty limited when like, you have the limitations of not being in the world. Because, like, if, just take this back to the other way. If Dana was when the UFC, when Lorenzo Fertita and the Fratita brothers bought the UFC,

bought Zufa bought UFC, if you swap these roles because Lorenzo was like a better speaker than Dana, it just kind of doesn't get over in the same way. Being the public face of the company, you have to love fighting. And for any issues you have with Dana, I got plenty. That man loved fighting. I'm not sure that he still does, but he loved this shit for 20 years. And that you felt that when you were interacting with him.

And honestly, legitimately, part of one of the major issues I've had with Dana over the last 10-ish years, maybe a little less, is that he's checked out. He kind of checked out when Zufa sold because he made a billion dollars and there. But like he just sort of has checked out. And that's why, you know, he's focused on slap fighting, whatever the power slap and stuff like that. He is, he doesn't have the same passion. And we can feel that.

And so when your public face with the PFL for a brand that is not nearly as strong as the UFC does not have that passion, we can feel that. You got to get somebody who's going to be your public face and going to advocate strongly for you in a way that will connect with your potential viewership. Yep. And it ain't Fight Matrix rankings and it just isn't. Okay. All right. I'm rude. We're rooting for you.

We are. Oh, right. Here we go. Connor, does a loss of Boe Nickel dead his hype or does he have leeway since he's still young in M.A. Would they slow roll him even more? So he's a minus 1,000 favor right now, which could grow against Paul Craig. but what if something weird happens? Paul Craig's a pretty, he's pretty hurricaney kind of a guy, man.

He does weird things. Yeah. Yeah. Just ask him, Al-Gamette Ankelai of what life was like fighting Paul Craig. It goes well until it doesn't. Ask Jamal Hill what it's like to fight Paul Craig. Wasn't a very good time for the former light heavyweight champion. So you never know.

Paul Craig has wins over like two of the five best light heavyweets are. It's so funny to me. Yeah, and now he's down at 185, both fight. That is weird. It's weird. It's so weird. When Jamal Hill was the champion and Ancolaev was like the guy who should have been champion but for the draw, it was just like, and Paul Craig beat both these dudes. It's wild.

But what if he beats Bo Nickel Jed? What happens? Does the UFC go back to the drawing board? Or does, I mean, is his hype gone? or does it become, well, let's see how he bounces back. Because Raul Roes Jr. lost and it wasn't good and bounced right back. And obviously, they're two different guys altogether because Raul was still a teenager. And Bo Nichol is more seasoned and almost 30.

What if he loses? That'd be okay. Everybody can lose a couple times. Particularly when you're young and there's saying like, you'll take a knock. It will be a step back. There will be less people being like, give him a top 15. opponent, blah,

blah, blah, honestly might be better for his development because he still like the Cody Brundage fight

was a good developmental fight showed that, hey, he actually still has things he needs to work on. He needs to

like really focus on as opposed to just like fine-tuning details. Broad swas of the sport. He doesn't have yet. That makes sense. He's been doing

the sport for like three years. So, uh, I think a loss will not be catastrophic. It would certainly be a setback. The loss would be far more meaningful. A win for Paul Craig would be far more meaningful than a loss for Bo Nicol in that you take

him back. Okay. I would say that a loss might get us to where we need to be with Bo Nickel, which is Bo Neckle needs to be fighting more. You don't get better at fighting by not fighting. And Bo Nicol has been taken a lot of time. And so he needs to be, but like Bo Nichols 2025 should be a minimum of three fights. Should not be, okay, we're going to be very careful. Like, they don't have to be against good people. Just put him in there to fight dudes. And at the end of the year, unless he blows us away against Paul Greggen looks amazing.

His first ranked opponent should be the third fight of 2025. And then if he does four, then he can start moving up with that. But he just needs reps and he needs to be in front of people more than he has been this past 18 months. you nailed it absolutely nailed it I feel like the bo-nickel hype is kind of already dead just because of an activity I mean it's still there but it's just okay dude hype in this sport I've come to believe this more and more year over year and I just think I'm dead right being a star in the MMA

hype in this sport is almost entirely with very few exceptions in a result of activity of simply being in front of people repeatedly in a condensed span of time. Hamzaa Chimae became functionally an overnight sensation because he fought three times in six weeks and he put on great performances. And then he has never been as hot as he was after that because he's fought once, maybe twice a year. And that's still, he still has aura, et cetera, but it is that.

Alex Pereira is having this moment because he's fought. five times in the past 12 months. Bo Nickel, his hype was at his peak when he signed on Continuous Series and he fought three times in 2022. Like you just, Donald Seroni is, I guess, going to be a UFC Hall of Fame.

Is he? He's already a UCC Hall of Famer. Donald Serroney never won a major belt and was one of the most popular fighters in the sport because he fought four to five times a year. When people, when there's so much of this sport happens, And there are 500, 600 UFC fights a year. If you are one of those fights, you are lost.

You are in a sea of other human beings. And even if you are impressive and exciting, you don't stand out in a way that is significant. But if you fight four or five times and every time out you're dealing, people notice. People stand up. That is how you become popular. And I understand wanting to slow roll a career, slow rolling a career to get the best. out of a prospect should not be fighting once every eight months, should be fighting shitty people every two months.

Like, that's how they have done it in boxing for centuries. Take that same missive here with the, you got to get Bo Nicol in front of people. Dude. Kevin Holland is, yeah, exactly. Kevin Holland is probably make,

I guarantee, I feel pretty confident saying that Kevin Holland probably makes more money than most UFC title challengers right now. Like, want to know why? Because he fought five times in 2020. And he lost his next two fights. He got two main events right out the gate in 2021 and lost both of them in the same way.

Got taken down, laid on his back, and got dominated. And the dude just, like, he doesn't need to fight for belts. People just like him. He's out in front. He's charismatic. He's fun to watch. He's a good fighter.

He's great on the mic. And he's a star. They'll never win a belt and nobody cares. No one cares. Who are the three biggest fighters this year? Protis. Like breakout wise. I just mean the three.

Yeah, sure. But it's Prattis, it's Pereira and it's DePuria. DePorea only fought twice, but they were monumental efforts. And so, yeah. So if you're going to fight twice, but they are going to be historical wins, sure, that's the way to do it. But Prattis just fought four times, got four performance bonuses, and people have seen him above. You just, we got to get Bo. Bownickle could do that.

He's just got to do it. Anything else? A couple more Super Jets before we get out of here. Let's rifle through these. Jonah, your reaction to the announcement of the Iron Faction, Mike. Mike in Turtle Park, John Young, continuing the legacy of the Iron Sheik. Love the show. I have no idea what this is.

I didn't see this. Mike. I know the Iron Sheek is a professional wrestler and the words. faction is a wrestling term. Sure is. And obviously, Iron Mike being Mike Tyson. Or I guess...

Oh, maybe. Oh, do they link up? I guess Michael Chandler and Mike Tyson are there. And Jung-Young Park, apparently. And then Iron, the Iron Turtle. Oh, well, I mean, yeah. I got to tell you.

Anytime you can team up with the Iron Turtle, that's good... If the Iron Turtle has found a way to ingratiate himself with Michael Chandler and Mike Tyson, good on him. That's good brain management. Yep, well done. All right. And last super chat.

Alejandro, Jedmishu has stated, Stepe does not have a win over anyone employed by the UFC. I am here to set the record straight. Everyone knows D.C. is regularly commentating UFC events. He's got me. Look, when you're got, you got. But here's the question, though. is he employed by the UFC or is he employed by ESPN?

Oh, no. So I was actually, I was going to go another way because I'm certain he is employed by the UC. Actually, in a weird twist of fate, Steepa is the only fighter who has a win over someone employed by the OC. Because actually, fighters aren't employed by the UFC. They're independent contact. So I was all the way wrong with that statement, Alejandro. but I think you do get the point I was attempting to get across. But you're absolutely right.

I couldn't have been more incorrect in how I phrased it, though. Yes. Well played. Not many people have wins over fighters employed, people employed by the UFC because Dan Hooker does. I mean, it's D.C. It's Bisping. Bisping does booth work.

so Biss being's employed by the O.C. Feldar. Feldar. Forrest Griffin. Cruz. The UFC, right? He actually is employed by the UFC, so that's as well. Cruz.

Cruz. Cruz, yeah. Sanko? Maybe I don't know if anyone active has a win over her. I think she's only one and oh. I think she only want to fight. Just want to know. Just want to know, yeah.

And yeah. That's five. So if you've got a win over any of those five people, because I would bet that Usman isn't employed by the U.C. I bet he is an ESPN employee. Oh, I think the ESPN Analyst. Oh, yeah. Spanish, Spanish team.

Grasso. Marino. So, yeah, Grasso, Moreno. All right, it's going to open up a little bit then. Yeah. Ponzi. Ponzi. Yeah.

Another one. Should Redoom still do language stuff for them? I don't think so. I would assume not, but I don't actually know that. So, yeah, but limited number of people are involved. employed by the U.C. that have competed. So, love that. What a twist.

So great point. He got me. Okay, he got me. We done? We done. Okay. Well, it's going to be a busy week, everybody. We got open workouts today, right, for Paul Tyson.

So you'll get some footage of that on MMA fighting. We got Media Day for UFC 309 tomorrow. So you'll see that all live on the feed. Press conference tomorrow? For Paul Tyson? Yes, yes. Five o'clock. Five o'clock Central.

So whatever. Tomorrow's going to be a day. Yes. Thursday. No BCL, but we'll be doing our Paul Tyson preview show at the same time that we would do this show. So you can still mark your calendars for 1230 Eastern time on this channel. We'll talk all things Tyson Paul and we'll give some respect and some time to Katie, Taylor and Amanda Serrano because they deserve it.

We'll answer your questions about that. We'll have weigh-ins for Paul Tyson as well. So, and then ceremonials. And then there'll be a UFC press conference on Thursday. And then Friday we get UFC Wayans. We'll have a UFC 309 preview show. Then we'll have a People's Pre-Fight show for Paul Tyson. And then Paul Tyson prelims are going to start.

And then 8 p.m. Eastern, that's when the main card starts on Netflix. And that is when the first of two watch parties will start. this week. Jed and I in command center 4.0 watch party 8 p.m. Eastern and then Saturday we kind of do it all over again. People's pre-fight show for UFC 309, 515 p.m. Eastern, and then another watch party for UFC 309, 945 p.m. Eastern. You're going to be seeing a lot of our mugs and we're going to have a great time. So Casey, hit the music. And then a post show shows for all the things, for all the things. I guess we're doing a post show Friday too for Paul Tyson.

Yeah. What we could probably do is just like take five and then just go live. Go back live again. Yeah. I honestly think we should do that. Yeah. We probably just do the same thing. But buckle up. We just stay broadcasting.

Like, I'll just sleep in the couch, like in the chair, the command center. People will watch it. We'll get Truman show with it. Be fine. Yeah. And then we'll go right into U.C. 3 and 9. We'll Twitch it. Thanks for watching. Good night, everybody. Love y'all.

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