MMA Fighting - BTL | Kamaru Usman Shines, No-Sells Belal Muhammad; Plus, UFC Baku, Adesanya vs. Buckley

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Former #UFC champ Kamaru Usman silenced the doubters with a dominant win over Joaquin Buckley in the main event of UFC Atlanta this past Saturday. While the majority of fans want to see Usman battle rival and former champ Belal Muhammad, Usman is no-selling that idea for a title fight. Is this the right move? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to Usman's lopsided victory over Buckley, Usman's look at the title picture and how it's rubbing people the wrong way, and Buckley and Israel Adesanya having some words. Additionally, they'll talk Rose Namajunas' future after beating Miranda Maverick, other standout moments, PFL Nashville, and their event this weekend, Francis Ngannou chatter, UFC Baku headlined by Khalil Rountee vs. Jamahal Hill, and more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. The main fighting studios, this is between the links. And now your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Tuesday to us all. I was going to say happy Thursday, but it's not Thursday. It's Tuesday.

That is why we're here. Obviously, Thursday is a company holiday. So kind of changes up the schedule a little bit. So instead of going on Thursday, we're going on Tuesday, and it's just been kind of weird schedule-wise. I think this is the third consecutive week that we have gone on Tuesday. But that's okay. Good old-fashioned Q&A edition of the program this week.

We figure with so much going on in the world of MMA and the news cycle, we want to hear from all of you. And joining me to answer your questions and just deliver, takes that only this man can deliver. Mr. No Gray area, the hot take kid, the climber of all climbers. There he is. Jet Bishu, boots on the ground from UFC

Atlanta all last week. ATL in the house. I wish it wasn't in the house. That was a tough hang. If you were watching at home, I haven't quite finished on to the next one. I was working my way through it. I did catch the preview show yesterday.

And I'm about halfway through Autnow. And I did love that the overall theme was man that sure was late and not a lot of interesting things happened because it felt that way on the ground buddy it was a tough night in the a yeah pretty uh pretty contrast difference from ufc 236 this card good lord i was i felt so like i jinks it too because i do have a history of going to like really interesting events usually like almost every event i've ever gone to one or more like wild cool shit has happened and but then this one like the cool

it's not even the coolest the weirdest thing was the Hadoffa Balato Paul Craig situation which I'm sure we'll get questions and talk about but like the rest of this was it was tough there weren't that many people there not in the arena the arena shout out Atlanta really showed out very like I went to the Wutan clan concert on Wednesday

there were definitely more people at the UFC show than the Wutang Clan concert. Like 100% no doubt about it. They were super loud. Like they were pretty into it, even though the night was boring. But not like a ton of media there. Just sort of a super weird vibe

considering the last Atlanta show. Yeah. And I love covering those events or there's like nobody there. It's terrific. Yeah. It really is a great time. You get more questions. It was me and Danny Segura and Oscar just

hanging in. the back basically and Oscar just showed up what on Saturday that was his yeah Oscar Oscar Oscar was not there for the media day stuff media day was like me Danny and locals and that was that was it and like a couple of the locals at this point I know at least in passing um because they've gone to the PFL stuff when the when PFL was doing like a series of shows here but like it was it was quite sparse so just me and Danny I hadn't seen Danny in a long time so nice to catch up with him hung out with Oscar on Saturday a little bit. That was fun.

So, you know, not terrible, but man, if you were watching at home, I think that that might have been rough. It was tough. Yeah, I had three, I had three screens going on at one point. I had UFC on the TV. I had dirty boxing on the laptop. And then for maybe 30 seconds, I had BKFC Mohegan Sun on this screen that I'm looking at right now. Because I had to watch Paco Porter do his thing. And he did it very quickly.

So that was good. Dirty boxing was kind of a weird card. Not the greatest event of all time, but there were a couple of really good fights. Jars and Euro strike on knockout. And then the UFC was the UFC. Six fight main cards at 10 p.m. Eastern is just insane. But luckily, the karmic gods bounce back for this week. Better than PFL.

Because let me tell you, I also had to cover the PFL for us, the 11 p.m. main card. And I will transparently say this now. I worked that. I wrote up everything about it for the site. I could not tell you a single thing that happened in that card because it was because they put Logan Storley on at midnight. Just absolute malpractice that it is midnight. I had an awful third.

Like my Thursday was one of legitimately the worst days I've had in many years. And then at midnight, I have to watch Logan friggin' storley go on. Oh, PFO is so brutal this week. UFC wins by default. That's so funny. The dude, it was hilarious. Thursday was so bad, man. All right.

Well, let's get into the questions. Of course, the super chatters get carte blanche. They get put to the front of the line. So let's go. Shout out. Great name. Michael Harris. Great question here.

And this kind of ties into the fallout of UFC Atlanta. Who is more delusional, Justin Gachie or Kamara Usman, or is it the UFC's fault. So Jed, in case people aren't aware, Justin Gates, he's pretty pissed off, did a podcast. The name escapes me right this second,

but Gage, he kind of went off. It wasn't full send. It was a different show. Anyways, go to M.A.fighting.com, we credit him. It's a great website. Justin's pretty pissed off

about the lightweight title picture. He's essentially put his feet in the sand and said, look, I'm either getting a title fight or if I'm not getting a title fight, you are giving me a big fat raise because if I win, this whatever hypothetical fight you're going to give me,

awesome, I get a title fight. If I lose, I'm going to be taking care of financially, which, you know, it's kind of a fair thing for a fighter to say. It feels like he's gotten effed over

by the UFC on multiple occasions and he's done doing them favors. And Kamar Usman wins on Saturday and basically said, I'm fighting for the belt. him the biggest name. If I'm involved, it's the biggest fight the UFC can make for this division, and he is no selling below Muhammad and all the things that have happened.

Now, since then, Usman went on his own show with Henry Sehudo, still believes that Usman being involved in a title fight is the biggest fight the UFC can make right now for the division. But instead of, I'm definitely getting the shot, I'm the man I'm fighting for a belt. Now it's sort of turned into, I would just like to say that I've earned the right, to be in this conversation. So he seems like he's taking a little bit of a step back from where he was on Saturday. But who is more delusional in your opinion, Jed?

Is it Justin Gagey or is a Kamar Usman after his win on Saturday? It's a really good question because it depends on what you mean by delusional to me, right? Like I think both men are kind of right and both men are a lot of wrong here. And what I'll qualify this as quickly as I can. Usman, I didn't believe Usman. Like, just straight up. Like, I don't think Usman believed it himself. I talked to him at Pre-Fight Media Day, and he basically said the same stuff, like, before the fight, and then as he did after the fight, like, this is the biggest fight.

And to me, it was pretty evident that, like, he is not going to say he will fight below. And I'm actually okay with that, right? Like, I know you guys are talking about it on the post show and you're talking about it on Otno. I think that that's fine, because I think he just doesn't like Bilal Muhammad and doesn't want to give Bilal Shine. And ultimately, he's going to fight Bilal Muhammad. I think we all understand that's going there. But there's, he doesn't feel the need to give Bilal shine. And if he can speak truth to power, maybe he can, you know, finangle his way into a title fight. He can't. And if he, if he, if he, like, believed that in his soul and was going to stand ten toes down, I will only fight for the belt next. Then I would think that he is being wildly delusioned. He never said that he would only fight. He was just staking his claim. And as you said, already walked that back a little bit. We know where it's going. And so I don't think that that's all that delusional. Maybe it's a misstep. Maybe it'd be better to build the fight with Bala, but him no selling Bala is to some extent building it anyway. So I don't think he's really that delusional here based on the premise that I don't think he believes what he is saying. If he does, then he's obviously extremely delusional because, Despite a great performance and a great win, he's like fourth in line at Walterweight right now. Like he just definitionally needs to fight. And I would argue he should, if this is a mistake, the mistake is that he should try and fight Belaw before Belaw fights somebody else.

Because if he beats Belaw, as you pointed out, I believe it was you pointed out on onto the next one. There's no doubt about it. He's next in line. He beats Joachian Buckley and then goes and puts on a similar performance against Bilal. He's fighting for the belt next. No questions asked. but if he, you know, does this song and dance, maybe a Machado Gary gets ball. And suddenly, Usman still has to fight somebody, but now he is going to fight a Michael Morales or something.

And so that would be the only misstep from Usman. Gaichi, Gaichi is both delusional and totally justified, in my opinion, right? Like, I don't think he's going to fight the winner of UFC 317. I wouldn't say that's impossible, but I don't think it's going to happen. And so the 10 toes down, if I don't fight, I'm retiring, that is delusional. That being said, totally justified. Like, he should be absolutely furious. People don't want to hear this.

The chat will blow up at me. People will tag me in tweets and shit afterwards. He is more deserving of this title fight than Ilya Taboria, because he has relevant, significant wins at lightweight, and Ilya does not. And Ilya Tuporia has one successful title of defense at the weight below him. This is transparently. they want Ilya fighting for the belt and it was always going to be Ilya versus

somebody be that Islam be that Charles but like in a legitimately meritocratic world I'm not saying Gaichi is the most deserving but he is certainly more deserving than Tupori in this situation the most deserving would be Arman Srukian versus Charles 2.0

for the belt or whatever but so he has a little bit of like a reason to feel hard done by people forget like he he didn't have to do 300 Like the 300 thing was a hey, oh shit, it's eight weeks out and people are noting that 300's kind of ass right now. Like there was a whole lot of it on the MMA hour at the time of like what's going on like why this should be the biggest card ever. It's trash.

And then all that kind of went away when Justin Gagey fought Max Hollow was like, oh, that fight's happening. Cool. Justin didn't have to do that. Justin was probably in line for the belt. He did them a favor. It did not work out for him at all in that. regard and so he and then he fought fazeve again again taking a fight on short notice a fight he didn't have to he feels i would say justifiably like he's he's earned a little bit here and the uc

at least at this point does not seem inclined to give it to him and so i do think it is delusional from a practical standpoint because this will not happen for him but you know like he he should feel this way like he is entitled to feel hard done by whereas if usman actually believe the things he was saying like he shouldn't feel that way that's obviously crazy i actually think usen feels the way he feels like he did walk it back a little bit but i truly think he believes that because of what he is done he deserves to just jump everybody else and get a title fight i think he's insane for if he genuinely believes that he is delulu i also i don't even know if it's true that if he's part of the title fight, it's the biggest fight in the division right now.

It might be, but I'm not totally sold on that premise at all because, again, especially with today's UFC in the way the fan base evolves, there is a big chunk of UFC fans who watched Kamar Usman fight for the very first time on Saturday. Like, that's crazy to think about for you and I and like half the people in the chat right now who've seen Usman fight for years. There are a lot of people who saw this band fight for the first time on Saturday. There's a bigger chunk who saw him win for the first time. Because he hadn't won in four years, Mike.

Four years. It's a long time. And that win was against Colby Covington in a rematch after he finished Colby in the first fight. So like, I don't know, man. Even like things he was saying over the last year and a half, they're like, when I'm coming back, like I'm going to get right into a title. Like when Belaw won the belt, there were people like, he legitimately, legitimately was saying like forget shop cut forget all these guys like it should be me and below what like

what is i just i feel like him being out for so long has made him like just unrealistic to the current product so i did i think there's just a little bit of insanity to the things that he is saying uh and he's sort of believes he's back in 2019 right now it's just not that way anymore we're just in a different UFC, we're in a different world right now. It was a great win. It's exactly what he needed. It was dominant. It was not all that competitive.

Fifth round was interesting because Buckley started to wake up a little bit. But yeah, good win. Now go fight Balal. That's a big fight. Like, even with the belt on the line, like, I think that is the biggest, most realistic fight for him right now. Like, you got some heat. You actually have a rival right now for the first time since Colby.

Like, jump all. over this. Do it. And that's like at the post presser, like if you go watch it, like I was trying to throw him that lifeline because he is out here standing on the on the corner of I'm fighting for the belt. And you know, like you can say that, but like even if you think that this is the path or like what you deserve, you have to at least recognize that that's not a certainty, that that is not a given, that there's very that that's most likely not even true. the texture and layout of the weight class right now.

Like you have to have that self-awareness. And so I asked him, was like, you said you won a big fight. There is also a big fight with Belmont. Like that is unequivocally a big fight too. Like you, that can co-main event to pay-per-view, headline a fight night card abroad somewhere. Like that is equally as big a fight. And he just was like, nope.

And again, like if it's just that he personally doesn't like Belaw, I can understand it. It's probably not ideal. He should probably be opening the door to things because he's just going to have to fight somebody. He's not jumping the line right now unless every other person in front of him stubs their toe or trips on a lead pipe or whatever.

Like he's not getting that title shot. And so the way to solve it is beat below. Like he beats below. And there's not a human being alive who would argue that he is not the deserving challenger, given sort of his career and what's happening. And so it seems really obvious. He doesn't want to do that yet, but I do think that's where we're going to end up.

And he's just going to slowly start walking this back as we go. As more pushback comes, as the UFC is just levels with me like, dude, you're not fighting for the belt. Come on. Be real. We'll get there. And he maybe was a missed opportunity Saturday. 100%. Like even if he, and you know, I'm not usually a fan of whoever the UFC wants to give me, I'll take.

Like, that would have been better of him saying. like i'll fight shop god i'll fight gary i'll fight any of these guys like i know i like if i need one more win cool like i'll fight one more time but this whole like i'm i'm only fighting for the belts and then i'm gonna go fight for the middleweight belt just good win i the emotion that came over him was was really good and then it just all kind of went to shit the i'm okay with the middleweight belt thing because like if he just lays that out like fine i'll go beat belal and then I'm going to fight the winner. I'm going to reclaim the Welterweight belt.

And I'm not going to defend it. Like, I'm not going to pretend that I'm going to defend it. I'm going to go fight the last fight of my career against trickus or Hamzot. Like, that's a pretty cool career arc to lay out, right? Like, I am with him to the point of him fighting Islam.

If we got there, would be really cool. Like, that is former pound for pound, as he said versus current pound for pound. That would be legitimately dope. But like, you know,

I'm shit, Mike, I'm not trying to rush the dope things because that makes them not dope, right? Like, that makes it less cool if we're just trying to make this happen, which is absolutely what we'd be doing. Like, if he goes and beats ball and earns it and then fights Islam, and then hell, you know, he's at that,

if he beats Islam, he's probably like reclaimed, if not all the way. He's like the top two or three pound for pound fighters in the world. And then his final career fight is to pursue the middleweight belt. That's a great story. I hope it happens. It'd be really,

really cool. But we got to get there honorably, not just like, because yeah 100% unfortunately for just a gaiti i think he's screwed no matter what now that arm and sarin's the backup fighter if charles wins they're probably going to give it to armin if ilia wins gauges got no chance that's got bad it's not it's not close yeah yeah that's the thing i think gaiti got cooked um and again he should feel upset about it because i do think he got like a little bit fucked here not like totally right like at the end of the day he did accept the 300

fight and he lost and that is that's part of the risk reward ratio you sort of have to make that calculus when you take that but i think he can feel hard done by in that he has been if not the the second most exciting fighter of all time i think he is clearly the most but undeniably in the top like three he has delivered four fight of the years since signing with this promotion he has always said yes bailed them out time and again never not delivered a stone called banger when he is in a spot to do so literally is one,

like he and Max made 300 not suck. Like that event would be remembered as a failure, even though it was top to bottom pretty fun, right? Like if you remove the Max and Gaichi part, that card, you know,

six, eight months away, now that just looks like an event, right, like a stacked event and a good one, but it is not remembered. for what they gave us that night. And he could think, man, I deserve a little bit of something here. You guys, Dana White came out this week and just straight up said,

we went to New Orleans for Dustin Porre. It's the only reason we're doing this. Justin Gachey can't get like a friendly title fight. They gave Porie a friendly title fight. Straight up gave his ass one. And like, no one was upset. It was cool. I was very, very proponent of it.

But they gave him a title fight for being BSD, who's like number 12 or whatever. Gachie can't get one for beating Fiziv on. short notice again like it he should feel a little hard done by in this and i ultimately think that he will not retire and that he'll probably just get a little bit more money and have to go fight dan hooker whenever dan hooker heals up and that'll be cool as hell and maybe then if he wins that he gets a title fight but i i understand his feelings here yeah tough spot for him we'll see what happens uh j fish mike thoughts on the red sucks devers trade jesus christ man every person I know who is from Boston was unpleased.

Puzzled. I don't know a single thing about baseball, but people were not happy about that. If they had done it like a month prior, then I would have been like, I still would have been pissed, but I wouldn't have been as surprised as I was. The timing of it was just so weird.

Like they just went out there and beat the shit out of the Yankees all weekend. and Devers is like a huge part of it. Like he was a huge part of that win on Sunday. And then he's traded like right after. So like, I don't know. It's it's super weird. The brass talked yesterday and they were like,

I wouldn't be surprised if we win more games without him than we did with them. And maybe that's true. I don't know. Like I'm not in that locker room. I don't know. I know like talent wise and what he's been doing. It sucks, man. And I just bought this like sick ass red socks.

hat that came yesterday. It's awesome and I'm going to wear it with pride. Even know they made this deal. But yeah, didn't see it coming. You know, I watched the Sox beat the Yanks. I was watching the U.S.

Open. We took a trip to the beach, came home, was watching like the tail end of what JJ did on Sunday. And then this news drops. And I was like, holy shit. Like,

what is happening right now? So stunner. Absolutely a stunter. And hopefully this works out better than them getting. right of mookie and zander and some of these other guys because those did not work out at all and it's very frustrating so yeah life of a red sox fan i don't know a single thing about baseball i will say i was pro this trade because the internet was great yesterday um just watching like people

on ticot like with their reactions to tell their like socks fan father like hey they just traded him and he's like ah cool great joke happy father Day or whatever. And it's like, no, no, everything. She's like,

all right, quit yank in my chain. No, like check your phone. And it seemed like, what the hell is going on? It was terrific. I'm sorry for all the Red Sox fans out there.

This seems awful. Though one of my friends who is a deep Boston, you've met a Mike, deep Boston guy has already talked himself into it. He's already been like, apparently everybody in the locker room is pro this. He was awful. So,

uh, good, good move. And I was like, Way to spin yourself a yarn. Yeah. I mean, I hope he's right.

But we'll see. I just got to get over the initial shock of it. And then, I mean, they won yesterday. So they're one and oh without them. We're undefeated without Devers. So this is a money ball move,

Mike. This is like winning money ball. They traded Pena or whoever they were training. I don't remember. They traded Carlos Pagia. Yeah. Yeah. Jeremy Giambi.

Yeah. This is it. It's a money ball right here. blood and beer with umar's comments on the russian podcast would islam refusing to vacate the 155 belt before ufc 317 be the funniest thing to ever happen to a ufc event no i mean it would be but he just wouldn't matter i refuse to vacate it cool well we took it from you it's the uc will just take it from him if he's like i'm not giving this up willing he's like all right well it's ours now because it is all their belt to give

They could give the lightweight title to Tupuria tomorrow and nobody could stop them. Like they can just, they just do that. So, uh, if like he had agency to actually be like, never mind, then that would be really funny.

Um, just because like, it would absolutely destroy all of their best league plans, but he has no agency. So it wouldn't be funny at all. They would just strip him. Yeah. He's just not the champion anymore.

Like they could just, look, the UFC could do whatever they want. Remember what happened when Leon Edwards, was like they wanted Leon to fight Hamza Atchamayef. And Leon was like, nah, I want to fight for the belt. And they just took him out of the rankings. All right.

Well, you're out. Bye. Like, if Islam like straight up goes public and refuses to vacate the title, they'll just, not only will they make him vacate, they'll remove him from the pound for pound rankings. They'll remove him from everything. Like, they can just do that anytime they want to. Because fighters have no leverage. They have no power to do anything.

Like, it would not influence their business. one bit if Islam tried to pick a fight with him and they just burned him to the ground. Like, all right. I mean, half the fans would be like, well, Islam's stupid. And you know, I know this because I watched the Francis Singano UFC negotiations in real time. We're half the fans like, obviously Francis is afraid and the UFC have never done anything wrong in their whole lives. Like, I don't know what you guys are looking at, but okay, like, if I just don't have any leverage, they can just take the bell from him. So is what it is.

Yeah, speaking of, I'll say that's also a really good answer to a couple of other questions I've seen in there. Yeah, Ousman's no sell is simply a negotiation tactic. But you can't, there are no negotiation tactics right now against the UFC when you're Kamar Usman. You got nothing to negotiate with. What are they, what are you going to say? I'll just retire. They'll be like, okay, you haven't fought in two years anyways. It's fine.

We got plenty of welterweights that can go fight for the belt. Like, think of all the incredible fights we can make a 170 right now. now. And if you're not a part of it, like, fine. See you. All good. I think it's much more likely, uh, just he does not like ball. And so he's trying to diminish below. Maybe it's a, a sell tactic, right?

To like build up the juice without just like saying some shit. But like, he's not negotiating anything. The O.C's going to, he's going to fight for what the U.C gives him. Because that's what happens. I mean, if he's trying to paint below Muhammad as a good guy, he's doing damn good job he's doing a very good job right now because he's turning ball baby face uh iser plants the ufc name is the star yet the sport has also become less and less compelling if you had to name one reason why beyond title fights what is it

why it's less and less compelling that that depends on how deep you want this answer eyes or planets the fundamental real answer is that uh the uc is a monopoly and technically they're probably a monopsony, same core concept for what we're talking about. And just look at history. Monopolys have never led to good product. They don't. They lead to better product in a very short window of time. And then inexorably, it gets worse because the fundamental principle of capitalism,

which is a, you know, system that I'm not like a huge fan of in general. But like the one we work under is that competition breeds like better stuff and monopolies. and monopolies are the exact antithesis of that. And the UFC has no competition. And so they don't have to try. And that's why the product is worse. And in fact, they're incentivized to not have stars because stars have some point of leverage. And so they are incentivized not to do so.

So the answer for why the product is worse is that. If you'd like something a little more specific than that, I would just say, like, for me, it's been the same people running it and it would be cool to have like, you could just make it better with some more creative stuff happening. Like, Noche wasn't great, but it was cool because it was different

and there's just so little difference or nuance. It is all, yeah, sort of cookie cutter here, here, here. And I would love some spice in this particular life. Yes, I'm with you. Yeah, there's too many events as well. That is hurting the long-term growth of the sport.

I mean, it's getting short-term growth, no doubt about it. But it was always like there's a five-year cycle life of MMA fans. It was like that when we were really starting to get into the sport, especially around like 2013, 2014, 2015, all the way up to like 2017, 2018. It was like a five-year run. And then you're just done. And then people are just out because it's too much to keep up with. And that was before the CSPN deal where we're getting 43 events a year.

plus contender series, plus the ultimate fighter, ancillary programming, et cetera. And it's just too much. And like any complaint I have from like friends of mine who casually watch the UFC, they literally only care for pay-per-views so they could bet on it. They don't care about the stories of the fighters.

They just want to like watch fights and bet on them. That's what it comes down to. So yeah, it's just too much to keep up with. There's so many throwaway events and there's no different, no way to differentiate them. outside of the venue.

Because even the apex cards, their brass is saying like the almighty apex, the glorious apex, which there's no difference watching a fight night at the apex and watching in front of a place that has the fight night gate record, which is ridiculous.

But their viewpoint is like fans can't tell the difference. It's crazy. It's nuts. They don't want fans tell the difference because what like what benefit is that? Like I could write probably a thousand pages on how the UFC could improve. But the truth is they would not improve their business model.

Their business model is almost a perfect predatory entity. And that is the thing they care about. That is what capitalism promotes. I just certainly what the UFC promotes. And so, like, they are making all the money they can. And all of the suggestions I would make would make the product demonstrably better and would have no effect or potentially even hurt their bottom line. Right.

Like, there are too many events. there are too many fighters on roster. They have like at any point in time between like six and seven hundred people on roster. It should be like four. There's 400 people on roster means you can see people fight multiple times a year. Like you can have fewer events because you don't have to offer everybody a fight. Like the sport would be better if there were 32 UFC events a year because it would open up room for other promoters to also host event. And the UFC events would be the best of the best instead of,

you know, 300 contender series people and all the best fighters in the world. Like there are myriad problems. They all come back to this is a business and they won. They won the business. And so they do not have to do anything other than maximize profits, which almost definitionally comes at the expense of the consumer experience. Yeah, it's the TKOA. Look what WWB is doing right now.

Exact same thing. They're taking a big bag of money to go to, different locations. They're doing the Saudi thing. They're going Australia. They're going everywhere that they will pay them to come. And then when they put tickets on sale, they're almost impossible to afford

unless you go to like a smaller market, like a Savannah, Georgia or something like that, where if they're not selling out, then they'll drop the tickets that we go of. But yeah, they're doing the exact same thing. And the product in WWB isn't that spectacular right now. Like if you watch Raw, it's just like, Jesus Christ.

It's just a lot of talking. No wrestling. There's just a lot of people talking with microphones. Some of that stuff's compelling. But yeah, it's the same exact business model right now. They're doing the exact same thing. They're cutting talent. They're cutting, especially the bigger contracts.

And then like when they realized they made a mistake, they presented as, oh, no, that's just a storyline. Hope you're enjoying the show with the whole R-truth situation. So, yeah, it's crazy. It's just where they're at right now. The only way to stop it is don't buy tickets. Don't buy them. That's it.

That's literally all you can do to stop it. There's nothing else you can do. You can get rid of your ESPN's plus subscription. That'll show them. No, won't. Oh, I just won't buy the pay-per-views. That also won't show them because they're still making millions and millions of dollars by just hosting it on ESPN's platform of networks,

not to mention the international broadcast partners. They're making the lion's share of the money from site fees and these ridiculous gates, three million something it was over a $3 million. It was a huge gate for Atlanta. It was like the second biggest fight. Yeah, second biggest fight night gate of all time in North America was UFC Atlanta.

State Farm was fully packed out. Tickets were not cheap. I looked fight week. And like the truth, there's no way to stop it. This is why monopolies are bad. Like this is why we actively disincentivize it. There is no way to stop it. You could stop buying.

We could stop buying. The people watching the show could stop buying and tuning in. wouldn't affect them at all because I guarantee you, State Farm seats like 20,000. Hold on. Let me look up how many people can go to State Farm Arena. Occupancy. Yeah, like it's, it's like it's between 16 and 20 on the venue. So like we'll say, you know, seats 20,000 people.

I guarantee you like a very small percentage of that. Know about this show. Read him may find a com great website. Like the people attending this thing aren't. aren't really MMA fans. Like they are the broad, casual fan of

there's a UFC event. Let's go. It might be kind of, like it'll be a fun thing to do, but they aren't watching every fight card. They're not tuning in to our post shows. Like, because they don't give a shit about it.

They're there for the spectacle for the event. And maybe they know one or two fighters because they tune in enough. And that's okay. Like I'm not here to disparage those fans. But like, that's who the UFC caters to.

They don't cater to us. They don't, they have us. They don't give us shit about us. Yeah, we got UFC 300. That was it. And that wasn't even,

and that was just what they coddled together. And we appreciated it much more than, than the casual fan that they're actually pushing towards. Chase is John Jones the only fighter in the roster who has any leverage to negotiate with the UFC? No, but he's one of the limited few. And also, like, the term leverage is pretty loose here.

like John has negotiated to all reporting seems to suggest he has used the leverage he has to get a good offer in terms of UFC deal but like he doesn't have enough to make them bend right like he has enough he does he cannot break the UFC he can maybe okay well it's still financially worth it to give up a little bit more here and like Connor can do that there are probably a couple of other people like Ilias going to be there very, very soon. If he's not there already, because they're, they're basically selling the farm to put behind him right now. You know, Alex could do that a little bit, but like, really, fighters don't have much. They've got a little bit. They can, they can't add a zero to their paychecks.

They can add, you know, a couple of ones to the front end of it is like the best they can, any of them can ever hope to do. Yeah. In five years, he'll be the top five lightweights for you. you. I'll go with Armin, Dawson, Oralby, Hooper, and Ilya. This is from RS 40. Baha Mondays and Patty will be welterweights in five years, he thinks. So top five, five years from now. Five years a long time. It really is. Very long time. I agree, Armin will still be in the top five at that point. Yes. I will also concur that Ilya will be in the top five. Yes. I'm legitimately less certain of that. I, as we get closer, Ili is not a lightweight.

And if he has like a sustained run of excellence at lightweight, that'll be very impressive. He is, he's not a big fellow. He is just, and I, you know, the weight cuts hard.

The weight cuts hard for everybody. It's why it's a weight cut. And this is a totally wrong way to view things, Mike, but it's 100% true. Miss me with your hard weight cut shit. Kayla Harrison did it, you can fucking do it. That is just where I'm at right now.

Like, oh, you think you had a hard way cut? Kayla Harrison. Kayla Harrison did it. So suck it up. Like, it's not that hard. But it is small, legitimately like a pretty small dude for lightweight. I am not as confident. But he's still incredibly talented.

So I'll go there. I do not think Grant Dawson will be there. Grant's like 31 already. In five years, be 36. That'd be really impressive from him, frankly. Um, who Patty's not a terrible choice. I don't think Patty's going to go to Walterweight. So Patty might be my third.

Trying to think who, like, who's a hot shit guy coming up that I'm, I'm high on right now. It's also young enough for five years, a long time, Mike. It's a long time. It is. Who do you have? What do you, what do you got here? Um, I mean, I'm with Armin and Ilya for sure. Um, hmm.

Looking down the list here. Dawson maybe, but if Dawson fights a dude who, if Dawson fights like a super well-rounded guy, I don't love his chances. Honestly, he's like I know he's being, I know there's rumor and innuendo he's fighting Joel Alvarez. That fight is not done.

It's not on M.AFighting.com, which is a great website. I am not picking Grant Dawson in that fight if that's the fight they go with. Joel Alvarez is an absolute mutant. Usman, like a truck. G.O. 4, 6, 28. Oh, good call. Just the number of met off 100%.

100%. I'll go with the three I said. I'm going to put John Silva in that conversation. Don't hate it. Also small, which I'm concerned about. I'll go Danny Zell Huber. I really like Zell Huber. I think he's quite talented.

Oh, that's a good one. 25. How is that about Riebevich? Oh, Riebevich. is um let's look that up hold on he's young i believe but i don't think he's you honestly he's like 27 28 but that's 29 that's so he could be 34 he could be could be but uh give me daniel zell huber i don't think if there's just any other lightweight that i'm like forgetting about that i'm super super high like or by i like a lot but man he was already old he keeps

He keeps taking beatings like he took against Batush Rabetsky. Like, there's not a lot of staying power for that. Because he got that fight ruled. But he, I mean, his face in that fight was he just got mangled in that one.

So maybe Tiago Moises gets over the hump. I don't know. He's got that talent, but he's very talented. He's too old. I might go Kevin Valleos. is also a featherweight. Oh, that's a great call.

But he might end up bumping up. He's just super young. Like, he's like 21. So he might actually just physically get larger in the next couple of years. I think, like, Killian Salkid is a guy, maybe. He did just coming on. You know, a guy's coming on. But I think we gave a pretty solid list here of people.

Yeah. It's the best division in the sport. There's probably like 30 dudes. We're not even thinking of it. Federico. Mariso Huffy could absolutely be in that conversation. He's also a little older. Five years is just the problem for like a lot of like five years is disqualifying for

anybody who's in their 30s to me. Maybe they could still do it. I mean, we're seeing currently, but the current crop of like UFC lightweights that are still, that are old and elite is an anomaly. This is not what you should anticipate ever to be the case. So like,

maybe Ruffie could do it. I just wouldn't bet on it because he's already like, I think he's 30. Yeah. It's the best division in the sport. It's not easy. It's hard. Let's go to some other questions.

Sean O'Malley's coach, this from Joseph Boza, had Joe Riggs on a podcast, and Joe Riggs said that Jared Kenner was forced to fight MVP or he would lose his job. What are your thoughts on Jared being forced into that fight? Well, I can't confirm that this is true, so I want to clarify that. This is obviously the speculation. I didn't even see the interview. It goes to what we're saying. Fighters don't have leverage. I don't know if this is true or not.

Wouldn't shock me if it's true because I'm sure Jared Canonnier has a big carry, right? Like he's, I am certain he is getting paid a substantial sum of money per, you know, his contract. He's far for a belt. You know, doesn't bring a ton of eyeballs to the table. His usefulness to the UFC at this stage of his career is to enhance talent to the elite level of the middleweight division. and, you know, that's a worthy skill for them, but is it worth paying $250,000 a timeout?

Probably not. And so if he is going to buck at all or be difficult at all, they could just cut him because that would be easier for him. Like, all right, well, go on. We wish you well, have fun in PFL. It's probably not going to go great for you. Maybe it does, but yeah, like I could believe this is true. It sucks for him if it's true.

but, you know, fighters should have unionized forever ago and they're never going to do it. That's on them. No, it's over. That world is over. It's never going to happen. It's absolutely never going to happen.

So, um, I get, yeah. I mean, once Jared K. and there starts doing media, when I hear it from him,

then I'll believe it more than Joe Riggs, who I also strongly doubt he would say it, though. Like he's, oh, I think he would. I think he would. You know,

I feel better than I do. I think you would. I think he absolutely would. I would also like to hear like John Crouch say that and I'd feel a little bit better about it than Joe Riggs saying it. So and then also like why

shouldn't even be mad about that fight. Yeah, this is like he's good. This is about as good of a fight as he could ask for right now because he ain't getting a title fight. He's not getting any of the massive names in this division. He's getting MVP who like could be.

him. Yeah, but it's winnable. And it's a big name. For sure. Absolutely. So I think, like, why would he be? Who would he want to fight is my question. Like, who would he want to fight?

That's the right question. Yeah, he thinks he's going to fight Drickis or get a title shot. Like, he's out of his mind. They're never going to give you Izzy. Like, nobody will ever pay money to watch you fight Izzy again. Like, like, do you want to fight Fluffy? That seems shitty. I'd super rather fight MVP than fluffy.

100%. So like this is, you know, a lot of grains of salt. This is pretty good. On a pay per view. Yeah. It's a main card pay per view fight. Like,

it's not a bad place to be, honestly. Uh, lazy bad. Mike and Jed, Twitter seems to split on Killel getting a custom fight kit. Should we support more fighters getting custom trunks or should it be reserved for champions? I,

at hot take, I think all fighters should get custom trunks. Because one of the worst things that's happened in this. sport is the fight kits. I hate the fight kits more than I hate Michael Chandler. I hate them so much. I even saw one. I saw one in the wild today at the gym.

Some dude was rocking a kid. I couldn't see who it was because he's wearing a backpack. But like I, they're terrible. They, they are like literally the face of my issues with modern UFC and that it, it made everything monochromatic. It's like, here, let's take out. This sport has very few expressions of individuality anyway.

Let's remove those and brand them ourselves. That is unequivocally what happened. They removed one of the few opportunities for fighters to express themselves individually and to pay themselves to instead put a here is a blanket of what we do and we collect the money and you guys get some money. It is atrocious. And if you were a fight fan in the early 2000s or the late 90s, You could be a fan of a fighter purely because they had dope-ass shorts. BJ Penn had the coolest shorts I've ever seen.

That was one of the reasons I was like, that guy rules. He's got white shorts with the black belt stitched onto him. That's sick as hell. Chuck Liddell's iconic Iceman shorts. These are things that are meaningful in real tangible ways to the viewer and consumer experience, and they got rid of them. I think it's awesome that Coleo Roundtree got to fight shorts.

And they're cool. Like they legitimately cool. He did a video like explaining sort of the, the ideas behind them. It is an abomination that fighters all do this, like just are forced to do this and I hate it so much. Fair enough. It was funny because I talked to Killow Roundtree,

literally 10 minutes where they release those fight trunks. So I didn't even get to even ask them about it. Like the interview ended in 10 minutes later. Oh, here's the custom shorts. Awesome. But that's coming up. pretty soon good good stuff dude tito's flame shorts and i don't even like tito but like it's just it is so much cooler if fighters get to do this and like you know i it's yeah it's so and they

just look different they don't all look like they are the same person palette swapped one over another to make everything as monotonous as possible like they have bludgeon the individuality out of the sport. And like, look, there might be things that suck straight up. If tomorrow they were like, you can wear whatever you want. 100% somebody's rolling in in Maga shorts. And that would be obnoxious to look at. But like, that's better than this shit.

One of myke and Jed's thoughts on UFC BJJ being a reality. And it kicks off international fight week. Yes, UFC BJJ. I actually spoke with Mikey Musimechi. That interview is actually going to drop tomorrow. on m a fighting.com great website video on this here youtube channel one thing i will say about mikey musimetchi uh he is passionate about Brazilian jiu jizu and he is a talker jesus christ this guy talks and talks and

my grandmother used to always say like oh my god you're like a modemouchi that's a mikey musimech is he just this guy just talks and it's it's it's pretty fun because he's so passionate about it But a lot of controversy with this one, Jed. Craig Jones has been a little up in arms about it. He basically said, like, okay, they're trying to like copy our style and what we're trying to do and maybe put the whole CGI thing out of business because it has the UFC. Maybe. But then there's like the other side of it.

I saw something about, I saw something from Alex Wedling, who was a guest on this show on a couple of occasions. She asked the question on social media Is the UFC being involved in the BJJ space and MMA media promoting it, I guess? Not even promoting it, but just like interviewing the combatants or the representatives from it.

Does that mean that MMA media is sheep because they are doing it only because of the UFC? Or is this good for the sport that now BJJ has the UFC name attached to it, more eyeballs, attached at international flight week, more people can watch the sport

than maybe ever before because they have the UFC backing. Where are you with all of this? At least for me, I think this is probably a good thing and just learning more about it and just seeing the, they can't call it the pit,

I'm told. But it's basically in a bowl. Like they're grappling in a bowl. Yeah, the pitch. Which I like it. BJJ surface. Craig Jones, which I like it out.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't see. Alex's comments. So taking off your paraphrase, that's a bad either or because those things aren't the same. I would say that there is certainly a chunk of the media that are sheep and are just doing stuff because the UFC said to do it. I would also say that's not most of the media and not relevant here. We covered CJA. Right. Like we we have covered, we don't cover Moon Dials. hilarious.

Yeah, people don't give a fuck about moon deals. That's why we don't do it. Like, we go where the things are covered. And this, at least in its first iteration, is something that will be covered, whether that, whether we continue to do so will largely just be a result of how this does, right? And if people show an interest in this, I mean, fuck, dude, we cover the NCAA, like collegiate wrestling championships. Like, this is, this is not a, ah, the UFC is doing it.

So we must. Though there is a piece of it. We're like, with the UFC. when the biggest promoter in combat sports gets behind something, that is probably at least worth your time initially to see. Granted, not all the time. We don't cover power slap, right? Like, that's not a thing that we do.

And so, you know, I would take umbrage with that sort of couching, even if there certainly is a chunk of people that are just doing it because the UFC said so. The other thing on it, I don't know that this would be, I would broadly assume this is bad for BJJ. And I will freely admit, I'm speaking a little out of my ass here. This is not my bailiwick. I trained for a long time,

but I just, like I would try and watch some competitive jiu jitsu for a while. And it just never stuck with me in the same way. Like I've watched the Mondioles and it's terrible. ADCC's not great. I do think Craig Jones sort of really figured out the best way to go about things. things, but they've been kind of making sort of progressive iterations. Eddie Bravo, the EBI, made some steps like, just not for me in the same way that

MMA is. I would just say that the UFC getting involved in anything is bad because they are killing MMA as a sport or doing their best to. And like, they aren't coming to BJJ to be the saviors. They are coming to implement the same, like the same things they do in this sport to that sport and hope it gets over. And so I would suggest. that maybe in the short term it is good.

It brings more eyeballs. Long term, it's probably bad, but that might be chicken little Jed. I'm caring. And I don't care about it at all. Mikey Musumich does some cool stuff. Like, my fundamental issue with BJJ,

I've discovered is like, it is the ultimate, just show me the highlights. Like, I don't need to see the full match. It does not appeal to me in that way. But you show me the highlights, or like somebody playing Daily Hiva, into like a barren bowl i'm like that's cool as hell but i don't need to see the 10 minutes that

preceded and nothing occurs yeah i'll watch it um the pit thing is is interesting because there's no like i like the fact that like if you're up against the side mike you was saying like if you go up against the side like you're literally just sliding down it like there's no it's so slick there's no like sticking to it you literally just slide down down it. And then you're, he calls, he says it's very, it's very violent for, for Brazilian jiu jitsu, which, you know, I think that's, that's fine. But again, and I just kind of have to see it. Like, I could care less about the reality show and the ultimate fighter stuff. Like, I literally don't care about any of that. I think you guys all know my feeling about the ultimate fighter that they

should have been off the air a decade ago, because it's literally the same exact show as it was the first time around and they've done literally nothing with it. But Dana just won't let it die. Just won't let it die. So I'm intrigued by it, but we'll see. Andy, UFC Chicago fights look great. What are your opinions? So we have DDP and Hamza.

We got, so we got the aforementioned. Yeah, we got the aforementioned Canon Air MVP fight. We got UFC just announced three fights today. Brian Battle versus Neur Sultan Rubeyev and Middleweight by the way. It is a middleweight bout. Brian Battle moving up.

Edson Barbosa versus Dr. Carr Close at lightweight and King Green versus Carlos Diego Faheda also at lightweight, Jed. So those are the three new additions to UFC 319. What else we got on that card?

Tim Elliott Kaya Sakura, Karine Silva, J.G. Aldrich, Alexander Hernandez, Chase Hooper, Jessica And Jensselaerite, and Gerald Mirchart, Mikhail Olegzechuk. Thoughts on UFC 319 right now. I do you could fill this card with like literal piles of feces being thrown by monkeys of each other. It wouldn't matter.

This is my card. Like this is definition of one fight that all these fights are pretty cool. Like canyere page is super weird, but kind of interested, like, which is tough because I'm almost never interested in Jared Canaaner fight. And this is at least kind of interesting. to Meliate Kaius Akura That's just a great flyweight bout Chase Super Alexander Hernandez Is like really intriguing

Is Chase Hooper like Legit? Kind of seems like he might be legit right And this is You know There are a lot of people that are better than Alexander Hernandez But if Chase Super beats him like

I'm gonna have we're gonna have to be like Okay he's graduated from fun child To legitimate fist fighter Battle Rules of I was probably just gonna be a good time. Androge Godinez, great matchup. King Green, CDF, solid, uh, Mirchart, Oleg Seych. I mean, that's setting some Scrabble records right there with that matchup. Barboza close. Like, I don't know how much Barbosa got left in the tank, but it's appropriate matchmaking. Good, good solid support for a main event that is, I think it's my most anticipated

fight on them, like available right now, right? Like, I don't think, I can't think of another fight. currently on the books or even that could be made that I am more interested in than DDP Hamzot. And so as long as the rest of it isn't like just stone cold, a dear 12 contingenture series matchups, I'm good. But this pretty solid, you know,

it could probably use a better comane like just a little juice there, but rock solid. There's something that I'm seeing in the chat right now. I'm trying to confirm for all of you guys. Is it, is it the lazy bed imposter story? That's got to eat in the chat. I love that.

We'll get to that in a second. Apparently, there's being reported that. Not that this is like any surprise if this is true. The UFC 317 matchup between Paul Costa and Roman Coppulov is being reported as often. This is not happening. Please tell me that's true. God, that's funny if that's true. So waiting to see if that is the case, if it is.

Hell yeah, Paula Costa. Let you know as soon as possible. We'll just be a super weirdo. Man, a lot of, a lot of clear names on Paula Costa's tapology. A lot of fights that got booked and didn't happen. What else we go?

I'm trying to find this. There's so many, there's so much going on in the chat right now. The chat is, the chat's going places right now. It's terrific. There's a lazy bed and a lazy bread. Oh my God.

I don't know who to ban. It's, I can't, it's this, I don't know which is the imposter. Oh my God It could be either of them You know

You never you just can't tell I couldn't tell anyway This is this is unbelievable Also Joseph notes Coaster to PFL If he really is pulling out Honestly he's probably getting his walking papers Unless he's pulling out

Because his leg like actually fell off Uh He might in fact get his walking papers Oh shit I got some messages out We shall see if there is any truth to this information. I'll put it in the old slack and

get people who aren't doing a show right now to look into it as well. But yeah, keep those questions coming. What else we got? A lot of Jared Cannoneer love, apparently. Frez I Am is now in the lightweight conversation. It's not bad.

Nazarad Hackparas, another guy. Manuel Torres. Dark Horse, I love the light. Menwell Torres is. is a legitimate dark horse. For Ziam is, I guess, viable. I just don't think he's very good. I just don't think he's that kind of good.

Rose Domby Unis improved a three and two a women's flyweight. She's number seven in the official UFC rankings. Where does she fit in the women's straw weight? And women's I assume he means flyweight division. If Whaley versus Valentina does happen and doesn't happen.

So Rose wins. She beat Miranda Maverick. Emmy fighting's official score was 30, 27 rows, which I think is correct. But Miranda, tough as shit. Apparently tore E.C.L. in the second round of that fight and kept on rolling. Rose gets the win. Didn't really do the thing.

She's named some stuff at the Post-Fi presser saying, maybe Natty Ice, maybe Alexa. I don't know. But I would just kind of like to be in the title discussion. They give me a title fight. I'm not going to say no to it. So where does she fit in this flyweight puzzle, right now. What happens if Wayley gets the shot of Valentina? What happens if Whaley stays at 115?

I'm just operating the assumption Whaley is fighting Valentina, because if that fight doesn't happen, it's very, very stupid. There's no good justification. Like, it's one of the two fights, literally one of two fights in women's mixed martial arts that people broadly would care about. The other, of course, being the Man of Nunes, Kayla Harrison fight that seems. to be on the docket as well. So like, I just am assuming that that is what's going to happen. If it doesn't happen,

I don't know what's going on. Then I guess Natty Ice fights for the belt, but that seems silly and stupid. So assuming that happens, I think there's just sort of a clear path here. Rose either fights Alexa Grasso or Natty Ice. It makes more sense, like, systemically to fight Natty Ice.

But I think what we're going to have occur is Zhang comes up. Zhang fights Shibchenko. Natty Ice fights Aaron Blanchfield because though she is the number one contender, just the timeline is going to necessitate her staying active. Aaron Blanchfield just had the Macy Barber fiasco occur. So those two fight clear cut,

no doubt about a number one contender, unless Zhang beat Shivchenko and Rose beats Alexa Grasso. At that point, U.S. you can say to themselves, well, guess it's trilogy time at 125 for these two women who are all, you know, like among the 10 greatest female fighters of all time and very important to us as a company and we can just book that. And that'll be tough scenes for Aaron Blanchfield or Natalia Silva.

But I think that's where we're going. I didn't have an issue with her not like specifically calling anybody out. Because I do think like, yeah, either fight Natalia Silva or fight Alexo Grasso. No bad answers for Rose in that scenario. Yeah, I'm kind of with you. I think if she called for Valentina, like even in a respectful way, I think that would have helped her in this conversation.

But it's fine. It just, we'll see what happens. She can't really lose another fight at this point. She's hanging on by a thread. But yeah, that's the other thing I like about the Grasso matchup is the loser is out. Like, the loser's just out of the title picture forever. So like, I'm okay with that.

We clear one of them off. Good. So conversations that I'm having, we have, it seems as if in regards to the Paula Costa Roman copulov fight, it does not appear to be happening next weekend. Paul Costa apparently is under the weather. He is sick, not cleared to compete. As of now, it is targeted to be moved. to UFC 318 in New Orleans.

So a fight is, it's not like it's never going to happen, but as of now, as it stands right the second, uh, it apparently is being moved to UFC 318 in Nalind. So, and look, let's be honest here. Three 18.

Nice little bump for three 18. Needs it. Needs it. For sure. I mean, it's all about Desiporia. I get that. Uh,

but the rest of that card is, not spectacular. So this will be a nice little boost for that, that card. No doubt about it. Yeah. Let's see what else we got here. Still, we got a,

we got the lazy bed, lazy bread debacle going on. The chat is on fire. What's next for, Ochoa? He looked good, man. He's fun to watch. He did.

Look, like I, I was a big supporter of him coming into the fight before this, right? Like he is making his UFC debut and it was just a really tough thing to get Monty Kavanaugh. Like that's, Anni Kavanaugh is just like one of the better prospects in the whole sport. But Ochoa was like no slouch and then performed quite admirably in that fight. You know, this weekend he comes out and he just works Cody Durd.

Who's like a really respectable fighter in his hometown just works him over. Kids 24, right? Like, he's still super good. This is, this is why I have been saying, right? Like, watch out. Flyweight is the new bantam weight in three years because there are like 12 unbelievable fly weights who are below the age of 26. And so in like a couple of years, flyweight is going to be the division.

Everybody's like, oh shit. Everybody's really good here. And it's like, yeah. And Ochoa is just one of those dudes. So it doesn't matter, you know, like just keep him busy. The thing he should do is stay active. Follow the Josh playbook, right? Like, stay, stay in there, stay scrapping, stay busy because you can't be bow.

Don't be Boe Nickel. Be Josh Van. Yes. I would suggest Matt Schnell or Bruno Silla, one of those two guys. I think that makes sense. You could highlight real, get a nice little higher reel against either of those guys. Just no wrong way to eat this Reese is for me. No, as well, make her too old to make a serious run at Bannerway.

I thought he was in his mid-20s, but he's 31. Yes, I'm with you. No, he's, that's why he wasn't a top-end prospect for me off contender series, he's 31. And he does, I will say that, like, he is, if you're going to hope for a dude this old to make a run, he's got the, he's got like the signs. He just seems to inherently understand how to fist fight. And so, like, maybe we can just rush,

him into, but like, it just has to be a rush right now because he is so young, like, or so not young. And he even acknowledged that in post-fire. I was like, yeah, I know I came to the sport a little late. But like, I still feel younger. It was like, you can feel young all you want. You're 31. You're, you're, you're dying. You're older than 25. You've started to die already. And that's just the reality of the human condition. So like, the biggest issue with him being 31, one injury and it's over. It's just, it's curtains. Like he cannot, if he, and knock on wood,

super don't want this to happen. If he Miranda Maverick and tears his ACL, it's over. He's out for a year. Suddenly he's 32, barely had any fights. We're done. And that's, that's just the problem with getting in the sport this age.

Very, very few people can do it. Daniel Corbier did it. But like, if your roadmap is to be Daniel Cormiere, one of the 25 greatest fighters who ever lived, that's a hard damn lane to walk. Does and he in DC was doing it at you know white heavy and heavy weight not Bannam weight it's a is a hard thing to pull off Look he's fun Cameron Simon one was pretty impressive

Cameron's on the downside but still Cameron's solid I don't think anybody was really surprised both Chris Mutino one I think Mutino fans were hoping for you know a better result his second go around but we knew as soon as this fight was made that this is how the UFC expected that one to go. Maybe Malcolm over-exceeded with the ferocity of the snaka. That was just absolutely nasty. He's just real fun, man.

Like I said, I saw his second and third pro fights cage side when I was covering the icon FC cards, which is the Mazadol MMA events. And he did the same thing to these two dudes. He fought a zero-and-zero dude Iced him out,

fought a Christopher Windgate who competes on like all these cards just to get got. So just perfect matchmaking there. He's actually doing better than I sort of expected him to do. I'm just, I'm curious how the UFC views him right now.

Are they going to just put him out there to highlight real lower level guys, which dude, you can make a damn good living living doing that. You're winning bonuses every single time you go out there and fight. That's pretty darn good living. Or are they going to give him the bump? Because if they're going to give him the bump, they got to give it to him now. Like, you can't wait. It's, we got to throw him in there

with Cody Garbrand next. Like, he would probably destroy Cody Garbrandt. Dude, it would be so bad for Cody. That would be, you can't that. I don't even think you could do that anymore. Like, he needs to fight twice this year. Like, that's just it. Like, he needs two more fights this year. It needs what, like, he needs to turn around and fight in August or September and just murder somebody. Like that can just be a here, like a legitimate getting you over enhancement kill. And then like straight up, just put them on the Carlos protest plan. Like, hey, kill, kill three dudes in a row and then we'll give you like a legitimate top 15 guy to see. We will give you, uh, Danny Gay and see if can, can you pass the Danny Gay test or the Pedro

Munoz test or whatever, right? Like that's it are not, no, those are featherweights. I get paid. Danny gives a feathered Pedro there's a thing like yeah That's it you know Can you can you can you Pedro is a guy who doesn't die

So you shouldn't give him Pedro Because Pedro is just like very very durable man And so like wouldn't that like Wouldn't that know that no that's if you're testing him We're not trying to test this dude we're trying to put him put him in a position right Like that Pedro is an ideal opponent for a young guy We're trying to like see if he can develop This dude's old we're trying to like give him

I'm going to Marcus McGee's fighting period of yons. You can't do that. I'm looking at the Bannon weights now. Rob Funt because Rob Font will test him but could also die. So that would be like that's that's that's. He could die though. Rob has been hurt. Pedro is unkillable.

So Rob can die. And that like that's it. You would put him in against Rob Font in December if he kills the next. I mean, it would be cruel matchmaking. But if he kills Cody Garbrane in September, you put him against Rob Fawton in December. Would you just throw him to Patchy Mix right now? That's interesting.

And Patchy should theoretically. That has, Patchy should take that fight in two seconds. There's a lot of upside there. There's one-sided, real downside. Like, if Patchy loses, it's just like, cool, you're Will Brooks. Let's get rid of you.

which is tough. Let's be tough scenes. Yeah, but then just think of what that does to Malcolm Wellmaker. I mean, it does make him. It gets him. I want a machine versus machine title fight at Bantamweight.

I recognize that that's a ridiculous thing to say, but they are both the machines. And I honestly, my greatest tweet of all time was this weekend where I was like, Marab is a machine in the way like a pneumatic press is a machine, where he's just relentless. and will slowly break you just by crushing your spirit. And Malcolm Wellmaker's machine, like a T-9,000.

They could just fucking kill you. And so that's like the best thing I've ever done and nobody appreciate it. That's where I need. I need those two titles. I need that title fight. Charles Jordane is a option here. That's a great matchup for him next. Great matchup for him next.

But there's no wrong way to do it. Just put him against the guy who can die and watch him kill him because he will. Like Cody probably is perfect, but the fact, like if Cody had won, Cody would be very perfect. You could still sell it with Cody dot, like losing respectably or whatever. And that would be, it would be sad for Cody fans because Cody would die. I love the Adrian Yana's idea. I'd like to see me get one more win and then fight Adrian at the end of the year. I think that's like a perfect test.

I mean, Adrian would be a banger. That's such a good fight. It's an exceptional matchup. So that would be real fun. And we just kind of go from there. But yeah, 31. I wish he was like 26. I really do.

He would have been my easily like, if not my top rated, he would have been like number two if he was not 31. I was like, okay, well, I don't think you have a ceiling because it's 31 at Bannamweight. If he were 30,

if he was a heavyweight, it would be fine, right? Like 31 in heavyweight's fine. At Bannamweight, you're over the hill already. Wellmaker versus Montel Jackson. no, can't do that.

I don't think that fight would go very well for Malcolm. Honestly, I don't. And plus, even if he beats Montel, like, he'd get a ranking, but I don't think he gains, because not a lot of people know who Montel Jackson is. Like, people know how much I love Montel Jackson, and I think this is a dude who could fight for the belt if he actually fought more than once a year.

He's got championship level talent. he just doesn't fight. So I don't know what Malcolm gains from beating Montel Jackson. I don't know if the reward is worth the risk in that type of matchup. And plus Montel Jackson deserves a ranked dude as well. Like, he's at that point where he should be fighting Rob Fond or somebody like that. So, yeah. I mean, what about Mel.

What about Mel, what about Mel, what about Melmaker versus Howie Barcellos? What about that? I mean, that's, that's just quite fun. But I think we've, we've skipped over the obvious answer, Mike, which is we've seen Wellmaker kill Chris Mutino and Sean O'Malley couldn't do it. Wellmaker versus O'Malley. Let's book it. Wow. Okay. Right to the top.

It would be fun as hell. Who cares? We don't live in a meritocracy anyway. Shit, man. Look. Look, Sean O'Malley became champion after they booked him against Piotr, Jan, just like out of nowhere. Like, what? I think Sean owes it to the community to give a young buck an opportunity.

Got to give an opportunity. That would be so, that would be absolutely insane to book and I'd be so here for it. That would be so wild. That would be wild. It'd be critical, like absolutely ludicrous, but kind of fun. Yes. Trying to see if we have any more questions.

I'm not seeing a ton here. There's a lot of like good MMA this weekend. I love this. Baku card. I think it's super fun. It starts early in the day, which is really sick. Love that.

Noon Eastern start time. A little nooner, 3 p.m. main card. Main card fights are all good. I got interviews coming up. I talked to Raphael Fazeb yesterday. That's coming this week. Talk to Cluel Roundtree today.

Talk to Ignacio Baja Mondays today. This is a really good fight card. Yeah, it's very, very solid. LFA has got a pretty good one this weekend as well. Pumi and Kud is fighting on that one, a guy who I spoke to as well. So there's lots happening this week. And we appreciate you joining us, as always, for the show.

We'll be back next Thursday, back to a regularly scheduled program. Ming, ahead of International Fight Week, ahead of UFC 317. Ahead of the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame and UFC BJJ1 and all sorts of craziness going. down in Sin City, Las Vegas, Nevada. We appreciate you joining us here on the program. For Jed Bishu, I am Mike at Casey back next week. We'll be back next week as well, as we always are.

We hope you will join us as well. Goodbye, everybody. Luke Thomas, I heard that shit you were talking on MK. What did he say? It's okay. I love you. He's making fun of you. Love y'all.

Thank you.