MMA Fighting - BTL | Leon Edwards vs. Kamaru Usman 3, Gaethje vs. Fiziev, UFC 286, More

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

This Saturday, Leon Edwards looks to have lightning strike twice when he defends his welterweight title on home turf against the man he dethroned in Kamaru Usman at UFC 286. While there are certainly a lot of questions on both sides, which fighter needs this win more? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will give their thoughts on that topic, what the result could do for both guys moving forward in the UFC welterweight division, and more. Additionally, topics include the UFC 286 co-main event between Justin Gaethje and Rafael Fiziev, along with other storylines surrounding Saturday's pay-per-view event in London, Usman Nurmagomedov's successful title defense against the now-retired Benson Henderson at Bellator 292 and where he ranks overall at lightweight, the UFC bantamweight picture after Merab Dvalishvili's impressive win over Petr Yan at UFC Las Vegas, and more. Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Brian Petrie from The MMA Takes podcast, and Anik & Florian.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Brian Petrie: @BrianPetrieMMA Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun!

The morning will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1-8665-3-3-2-60 or visit comex Ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum, you have access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. So your experience before takeoff is a taste of what's to come. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

MA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition. of Between the Links. Hope everybody's having a great week. We are on the eve of the eve of UFC 286 going down in London. We've got the trilogy

fight for the welterway title between Leon Edwards and Kamara Usman. We got Justin Gagee versus Raphael Fizib and more. It's the first day of the NCAA men's college basketball tournaments. I know people are fired up for that. We're not going to talk about March Madness here on the program.

We'll talk a lot about UFC 286 on the show. So let us get right into this. Lots to discuss, as always. Let's introduce the panel. First, he is the regal rebuilder of the betting account, the exhibition king, Mr. No Gray area, one half of the No Betts Bar duo, and much more from MMAFighting.com. It's a great website, isn't it, Jedmishu? How are you, buddy? Such a, you're taking all my lines, Mike. It's such a good website. Uh, good, happy to be here, 286, even closer than normal, what with the early start time in England.

So no time to waste, let's get to it. And making his first BTL appearance, you may have seen him on the great Anakin Florian podcast. He's a fixture there. It's from the MMA takes podcast. The man has been everywhere as of late, and we're happy he can make a little pit stop here on BTL. Let us welcome to the program,

the big gun himself. Brian Petrie. Brian, how are you, sir? Boys, boys, boys. It feels good to be here. I am excited. First time, long time. And I've been getting a lot of tweets saying that Jet needs a dub.

Jet needs a dub. That's what I keep getting. He needs a dub. So I might be giving them a nice little layup here. Jet needs a dub here. That's what they've been telling me. That's not why you're here. I have plenty of dubs.

I have the most. I have the most dubs of anyone in the history of this program. I'm doing just fine on the dub. count. Quitter came at me. I said, listen, I'm going to see what I can do. Don't. Just reject Twitter outright. You also have the most L's too. Let's just throw that out there too. Yeah. You know who leads the, you know who has the most strikeouts in MLB history? It's Babe Ruth, baby. Dingers. I'm hitting dingers. I got you. Gotcha. Jed, the Rob Deere. I actually don't know if that's a fact. But it feels like a good, a good thing to say.

I believe, I mean, I believe it. I believed it for sure. Hey, look, Kevin Millar has a World Series ring. So he either struck out a hit home runs and he did pretty well for himself. I don't even know who that is. First of all, how dare you? All right, let's get into the MMA chatter. Let's start with a, let's start with the quick recap of this past weekend.

We're going to put a, as the kids say, a hat on a hat. We're going to play a couple of games within a game. So first, we're going to play a fun game called Join Me or Fade Me. I just thought of this a few minutes ago. You'll figure this out as we go along. And Jed, you could be sort of the guinea pig for this new game we're going to play. And we're going to start with Bellator 2.92. We're going to start with Uspen Naraga Madoff because he just runs over Benson Henderson to retain his lightweight title.

He's on to the semifinals of the Bellator lightweight Grand Prix. The man looked incredible. He's exceeding expectations that I had for him, which we're going to be. we're already very high from Jump Street. But there's a debate going on, Jed Mishu. Whether or not Usband or Maga Madoff is a top five lightweight in the world right now. In my opinion, Jed, he has a case, a very strong case, but he's not there yet. Because beating Benson Henderson is a nice feather in your cap, sure.

Beating Patrickey Pitbull is a nice name on the resume. He has top five, top three potential for sure. But at this point in his career, I don't think he's there just yet. So Jed Mishu, are you joining me or fading me on this opinion that Usur and Amaga made off while he's on his way, not quite a top five lightweight just yet. I think I have to fade you, but it's really, or wait, you're saying he's not. So I'm joining you. I'm saying he's not. Yeah, I'm going to think I'm joining you.

It's really tough, man. Lightweight is so damn good. And by most, the way most people do metrics, he like certainly isn't just because the quality. quality of his wins don't stack up with Dustin Poirier and Justin Gaichy, et cetera, et cetera. But if he was fighting Dustin Poirier or Justin Gaichy

or, you know, Matush Gamrod, he absolutely could beat just about anybody in the world tomorrow. You know, like there is no fighter in the top five in my top five and the UFC's top five in anybody's top five that I

would say he does not stand a chance against. Frankly, no fighter that he would be a massive betting underdog too, save maybe Islam Nurmugamatov or not Nirmargev, sorry, Islamakov so it's really a question of how you view it.

If you are just going on talent, I'd say he's top five. Like from a talent standpoint, I think he's there already. If you're looking for accomplishment, he objectively isn't, but it is only a matter of time. I forget what program we were talking

about it on at the beginning of this year. one of our projection pods, you know, who's going to be the biggest riser? And the answer was very clearly, it's going to be whoever wins the Bellator Lightweight Grand Prix. I think that the winner of that will be used from Narmor Gamedov. And if he comes off that, you know, gets three wins this year, two more wins after the Bindo. He is going to be a, I would assume a universal inclusion in the lightweight top five. So I'm fading or I'm joining you for now, but only for now. Brian, are you joining me or fading me?

Oostman-Narragamatov, not quite a top five, but could get there very soon. I'm going to be a little contrary, and I'm a fade you. Now, if you go when you check my receipt, you pull my Twitter receipts, I have been very critical with the Bellator champions versus UFC. I do think UFC is the better talent, et cetera, et cetera. But watching Usman fight and what he did against Bendo with that kick that he didn't see coming, I think he's extremely talented. He just hasn't had the opportunities.

Now, let's say he runs through this tournament. I'm assuming he's going to meet AJ McKee in the finals. At least that's what I'm hoping if they match it up that way. Because I think AJ McKee is a great talent. And he runs through AJ McKee. This guy's a problem. The only problem I see is him and Islam aren't going to fight. I mean, you want to prove to be the best in the world.

You got to fight the best in the world in your division. They're not going to happen. But I do think this guy's got talent. I think he's got all the skills, all the measurables. His striking's good. His grappling's good, et cetera, et cetera. He just happened to be in bellatory. where he's running through people,

but you give him these top talents, like Jed said, you give him a gaitch, you give him a Matus Gamron, you give him a Jalen Turner. I think he wins these fights. And these are guys that we're talking about that are in the top 10, top 15, maybe in the top five of the UFC.

So I'm going to fade you. I think he's top five in the world talent. And that's shocking coming from me, a guy who is very critical of the Bellator guys. But yeah, give me some, Usman, Nergamon, Madov, man. Top five. I like it.

Yeah, I mean, if he's either going to fight shot, or AJ in the finals. And if he beats either of those two guys, he's going to be in my top five. He's definitely going to be in my top five. But right now I'm not ready to pull that trigger just yet. All right. Here's the other part of him that sort of got lost in the sauce of this conversation

this past week is like he, I guess Surukian might be younger. I don't remember offhand. He's 24. Like he's substantially younger than everybody else in this conversation that, except for Armand Surukin, who they're functioned the same age like i love jalen turner more than most he's still 27 28 like usman is is better than him already and is much much younger like this is his division

like this is just his in 10 in the next 10 years he owns it yeah sir rican's 26 so be 27 in october so still so rukin's already 26 yeah holy shit i did not realize he was already 26 So, yeah, never going to have two years younger than Syrukean already. Like, he's, daddy's home for the next decade. That's just what it is, guys. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's going to be the man for a while. So second, join me or fade me question goes to you, Brian.

And it has to do with across the way the UFC had an event this past Saturday. Marab de Walsh, Willie, masterful, dominant performance against Peter Jan in the main event of UFC, Las Vegas. this man, speaking of problems, is a problem. And you can make a very strong case right now that he's the best band and weight in the world, that he should be the number one contender for the title. But we have just so much going on at 135. It's kind of a mess with Sterling,

his teammate and buddy, getting ready to fight Henry Suhudo. We got Sean O'Malley looming. We got Marlon Verrigan ready to fight Corey Sandhagan. So my take, and you can join me or fade me on this, Brian. Marab de Walsh, Willie, because of the position he is in, and where this division sits right now, that at this time next year,

barring some sort of weird situation where he has to slot in on short notice as a replacement or a backup, but at this time next year, he will not have gotten a title shot or even be booked for a title fight. Join me or fade me. Yeah, I got to join you with that.

I think he's clear cut number one contender right now. I mean, I know we got a mallee out there, but I picked Peter Young. I looked at Ray Longo in his beautiful face and picked Peter Yan over Marab just because of what we've seen. I was like, there's no way Yon's gonna lose, you know,

three in a row, four in a row, whatever you want to call that knee with Aljo. I was like, there's no way, right? And he did, and Marab looked great. He reminded me of Super Mario Bros. when he eats the mushroom. Morab leveled up that fight.

I mean, that wasn't the Maraub that fought Jose Aorta. I mean, Maraub might have lost fans with the Joe's Auto fight. This fight, he gained a whole new appreciation through 400-something strikes. 49 take-down attempts, which is insane, show toughness,

was in his face, cardio elite. His biggest problem is that his best friend, his main training partner is the king of the division. Now, Aljo's going to go up and Aljo may retire. You know, he had the neck thing. We don't know. But I agree with you. I think Aljo is going to fight Suudo.

And then I think he'll fight. If he loses, they're going to run it back. If not, then we got to slide O'Malley in there. But yeah, Marab's going to have to fight a guy like Umar. He's going to have to fight. He's going to have to fight maybe rematch Ricky Simone again, which no one's talking about. Because I had a really weird ending. and Ricky Simone choked out Jack Shores last time out.

Ricky Simone's a beast. And so there's a lot for Marab to have. So I'm going to join you. I don't think he'll be champion. I don't think he'll fight for a title unless there's an injury unless, you know, Aljo goes, I'm going to 45. This way cuts a joke. No thanks.

But yeah, I'm going to join you on that one, Mike. Jed, I assume you're going to join me on this ride, but maybe not. No, I'm going to fade you. Assuming we're allowing interim belts to be counted as booked for a title fight, I'm going to fade you. Look, he's the number of two Bannonweight in the world, but in the U.S.C.'s rankings, I think that's true. I had him three coming into this fight because I was feeling frisky about Umar, but I think most people are just going to have him be the consensus number two behind Aljo. And that being said, he's not getting the next title fight.

Like the winner of Suhudo Sterling is a thousand percent going to fight Chono Malley next because, that's the business decision that you make. And then after that is where there becomes an opportunity for him. It'll depend on some things if Cheeto beats Sandhagen. I would say Cheeto still probably is in front of him in the title shot conversation. But assuming that fight happens late summer, early fall, the next Bannamweight fight after this one that's coming up, there's going to be an opportunity maybe rush one, squeeze one in in the end of the year.

in the winner or early in the year, you know, in 2024, where somebody has to step up. And if Aljo wins both of these next two fights, Aljo's gone. He's going to book it. I think that's been set in stone for a while. And if Sohudo wins both these next two fights, he's never fighting abandon weight again. It's just never going to happen. I've been saying it for years. I don't care about him coming back, broadly speaking, because I know who Henry

Sehudo is as a person. And what he is, he is in this for the business. and I don't begrudge him that, but he's going to fight Aljo because it is a means to an end for him. And now there is a fun big bag of money in Sean O'Malley that also is on this journey. But the Sohudo track is Aljo, Sean O'Malley, and then lie, cheat, and steal my way into a featherweight title fight. He never fight a band-in-wait again after O'Malley, which means they're going to have to do an interim champion, or they're going to do a vacant championship sometime next spring. And there's nobody more deserving at that point than Marab.

So if it is Marab versus Cheeto, if Adrian Yannes comes on strong, has a big year with a couple of wins, I think he's going to be either in the vacant title fight around this time next year or the interim title fight while Sohudo's doing Sehudo things. All right. Last thing. I didn't know if I wanted to bring this up, but I'm going to bring it up now because we've been, Jed, we've been talking about this for, I mean, two years on the show about the division. about the divisions and what's the best division in the sport. And then a conversation on the MMA hour and all of a sudden things have spiraled all over the place. So I'm going to start with you, Brian, because I don't know your stance on this, but I'm curious to know.

Which division is better? Is the lightweight division the best division in the sport right now? Or is the Bannamweight division the best division in the sport right now? Because Bannamweight's very interesting. It's loaded. There's a lot of interesting things happening. But I feel like lightweight is the Cadillac division. division. It is the best division in the sport. But I'm willing to hear an argument if you're against

that. So are you on team lightweight or team Bantamweight? I'm on team lightweight and you can sprinkle me in team Walter rate as well. I really like what what 70s got as well. Jack Delam Melina is a stud. That dude's going to be a problem for a while 170's this thing. But yeah, 155, 135, that's the debate. What's better? You know, 155 has been the catalyst forever. You had BJ Penn. You had the Jen Pulver. He's got inducted to Hall of Fame. They paved the way for these guys and you know, Islam. The problem with 155 I see is Islam has got this stranglehold on that division. We've Alcanowski gave him a good run.

But, I mean, are we going to throw Poria in there? I mean, we've seen that kind of with the Kabee fighter. We can throw Gaichi and if Gaetu wins, you know, who's the next guy up at 155? I know, we got Benny Darush on the wings. There's a lot of things, you know, Oliver. And 135 is a little more, I think, wide open with Sehudo coming back. You got this boogeyman, Marab waiting in the wings. No one knows what the hell he's going to do.

He's not going to fight Aljo, but he might fight whoever. you got Cheeto who's another wild man who just, you know, loses two rounds and then knocks you out in the third. Like there's a lot to be said. But I think I'm going to stay tried and true and I'm going to go lightweight. I think lightweight to me, I think there's deeper talent pool. There's some guys we don't know about. A lot of guys aren't talked about. A lot of guys aren't ranked.

But they're both fun. I mean, that's like, I mean, that's like picking between your kids right there. They're both very fun to watch. But give me lightweight by an edge, by an edge. Jed is it is it this close is it by an edge for you I know you're on team lightweight but uh for those who haven't heard your case go ahead and state it why is Ariel Hawani wrong about this I'm not here to say that Bannonweight sucks or is boring it's not it's the second best division in the sport like Walterweight is number three but I think that there's just very clear

tears here like this this isn't a real argument to me like it's just very people are just the reason here's why this is a debate right now like honestly the actual reason people have this is twofold one people love new things ban and weight feels fresh it feels new and they are excited and they want to be on the cutting edge of the new stuff so ah i'll be counterculture and pick bannam weight and two light weight has a fundamental problem to it that bannam weight doesn't currently exist with and that in all honesty it's the problem i've railed against for years And it is that the top of the lightweight division is immobile because partly Connor McGregor really gummed up the works for a long amount of time.

But once you are a star at lightweight, you're a star. And so you're not going to fight back in the rankings. They can't make you do that. And so you get Dustin Poirier transparently being like, I'm not going to fight you, Benile Darius. Don't care, don't want to do that or whatever. like that doesn't do anything for me. Gachi is fighting Fazeve, however this fight goes this week,

and we'll talk more about that. Like, Gachi's not going to be fighting Jalen Turner or something. Like, it is intractable at the top, and it takes an act of God to move from 15 to 5 there because of the star power. And so people feel like it's stale. Stale, and frankly, that was half of Ariel's things. Like, look at all these fun title challengers.

Like, that's not the argument. of what's better. It's just not a contest to me. Like, top to bottom, you can pick any structure you want. You want to go top five, you want to go top 15, you want to go top 50.

It's just all of the lightweights are better. Not by a lot, but they're just better. It's, I don't, and I will throw in as final part of the argument. The thing that has always killed me about is, you know what makes lightweight awesome that nobody ever talks about?

half of the welterweight top 15 are just lightweights who were tired of lightweight. I can't make any traction in this division because it's a freaking shark tank. So I'm just going to move up to 170 and I'll be a top 15 dude. Like lightweight kicks ass to an extent that no other division has ever done. And it's it has every edge over Bannonweight. That is not to say Bannamweight isn't awesome. It's freaking great. Love Bannamweight.

I just think it's very clearly a tier below lightweight. Lightweight is its own class. Well said. And shout out to featherweight too. I like featherweight. I don't think featherweight, featherweight gets enough credit for how deep that division is too. And we have guys coming up fast. Ilya Tuporia, Mavzar of Loyaev.

And the guys like Billy Q, Siddique Yusuf. I mean, he might just retire from fighting and just do fight breakdowns because he's incredible with that. And there's just so many other, I mean, there's so many good featherweights right now. Fighting should just take place between men who weigh 135 pounds and 175 pounds, and occasionally we'll let the fly weights into. Everybody else, you're not needed anymore. We've found the sweet spot for good divisions. Wow, that was a pretty spicy take right there.

But let's move on to what people want to hear. Is it? The point. What? Middleweight, light, heavyweight, and heavy weights suck. They're terrible divisions. First of all, Brennan Allen, Brandon Allen, the middleweight

champion has a problem with what you just said, but that's besides the point. Let's talk UFC 286. The point for round one goes to goes to Brian Petrie, because how dare you, Jeff? How dare you? Man, all right, I'll take it.

Smerch the name of middle weights, light heavy weights, and heavy weights. I just wish they're all like fine fighters. I just wish they weren't. the co-main event every single fight card, but be that as a may. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So no, you can't get a nice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

Enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence. While Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at one peloton. That's C.A. Let's move on to 286.

Let's move on to the main event for the welterweight title. The trilogy fight between Leon Edwards, the new champion defending against the man he defeated in August in one of the craziest moments in the history of the sport, Kamar Usman. So Brian, I'll begin with you because there are a lot of questions on both sides. What do you laugh at, Jed?

I just, the fact that you were, like, they're all fine fighters, and it didn't feel like you meant that even. because it's not even true. They're not all fine fighters. They're all fighters. They're all fighters. But come on. Come on.

I mean, look, there's a big middleweight fight coming up at 286, and I'm sure we're going to talk about it. But Brian, a lot of questions on both sides coming out of this fight. It was, I mean, we talked about the kick heard round the world. Leon was winning every second of that fight. Kamar Usman coming back after our knockout loss, something he's never had to deal with before. he's going across the pond now, enemy territory to fight Leon Edwards,

who's coming up the biggest moment of his career. And these are just two of many questions. So right now, two days away from this fight, what's the biggest question you have about it? What is the biggest point of contention for you? Is it on the Kamar Usman side or is it on the Leon Edwards side? Oh, that's a good question. I think I'm going to lean Usman because we've been around the sport.

We've noticed when guys get knocked out, it changes them. And the way he got knocked out with me, he was unconscious. Fifth round of fight he was winning, world title fight. You know, he's not the youngest guy in the world, you know. So that is going to be, is he gunshot? Can he take a shot? Because he's not the most defensively sound guy. He goes in there.

He takes shots, you know, he got hit over 100 times by Colby. You know, he lays his chin out there. Can he take a shot? Can he withstand it? Can he not get rattled by it? Because once you know, you got that light switched off, you know, he's now, no, it can get switched off. he's human you know what I mean that's he's proven to be human so my biggest takeaway is is how oosman is but the thing I love about Marty usman Kumar Usman is his mental I've been I've been riding

with him from day one I've literally he used to be a max bet for me every time he fought obviously lost last time but you know he's already made me enough money we're okay with but this is the one fight that's giving me pause because it's in London Leon looks diced up I mean the Instagram pictures of him he looks shrews Red City. He's coming in a shape. I don't see Leon laying an egg. We get this whole narrative of the altitude in Salt Lake City or whatever. You got Kamar Usman who trains his altitude. Now he's at C level. I don't think the altitude's going to bother him. His cardio is great. I think Leon was just flat that night and landed a great kick. I'm not going to say lucky. That's not a word I use.

It's a great kick. Great technique. But I'm worried about his mental coming in. But then you hear the interviews he did with Michael Bisbing and you hear the countdown show. Feel like he's okay. You know, I can only read so much into it. I don't know the guy personally I've never had a conversation with him, but is he going to be gun shy? Is he going to wrestle more? I know he can't stay in that distance with Leon.

But, you know, I guess, you know, I lean towards Eismund. Is he going to be able to get in there and have that fire and be able to want to exchange shots with knowing that he's been put out before? Jed, what do you think? Because statistics lean towards Leon,

every other sort of weird factor goes towards Leon here. I feel like Leon is kind of like the people's pick in a lot of respects. Some for the fighting style and some just because of the momentum and things that are happening here. But at the same token, these guys have fought twice and Kamara Usman has won like 95% of the fights between these two. But history is on Leon Edwards side when it comes to rematches and immediate rematches

and champions trying to get back the title they just lost. So a lot of factors here, what's your biggest question? Is it on the Usman side, the Edward side? or maybe the historical side. My biggest question is, did you listen to No Betts Bard already this week? Because that's basically like exactly what I said. It's just my question for this fight,

I actually don't really have huge questions about Kamar Usman coming into it. I think he's just going to be the same, the way he's talked, the way he's carried himself. That dorky shit, he says for his whole career, I'm the best because my mind is stronger than everybody's else. It's super lame, but it seems fairly true.

I don't think he's going to come in Guntshire or have those issues. I think the simplest answer is the easiest one usually, and the simplest answer for me this time is Kamar Usman is a better fighter. It's very, very difficult to succeed in MMA. Their margins are very, very small. Leon Edwards was well prepared, scouted an opportunity, took advantage of it, and Kokamar slack in a little bit. And full credit to him, that does not take away from the win.

But I do think that if you fight that fight X amount of time, 10 amount of times, you maybe get that outcome twice. And so odds on, I think Usman should be favored, should come in here and should do what he did for most of the second fight while dodging the head kick. My main question is about Leon and what Leon looks like. coming in. I've heard some talk about like, okay, he can come in with more confidence. I think

that that is critical for him here. Like I, he loss was losing that fight. Like everybody is in a firm agreement. Dean Thomas wrote him off was like, yeah, he's broken. He's just done. And he lands a head kick.

And even the head, even the manner that it happened in was awesome and triumphant. But it was not, he did not show urgency at all. He was still just doing the things that he believed in, I guess, and that paid off for him. But he has to fight with more urgency because doing that same shit got him tuned up for 20 minutes of that fight for the most part. So my question is if he will come in with a renewed confidence, if he will look back at that fight and recognize, look, I can't do almost any of the things that I did in the rematch because I was losing for big long stretches of it.

But what I can take from that fight is that I'm the more dangerous fighter than Kamar Usman, which I did not think going into the rematch that that was true. But I mean, you just look at how that fight played out. Usman ran the show for much of it. But Leon obviously knocked him out. And in the first round, Leon's the one who got to a dominant position with the threat of a fight ending technique. Usman never had that.

And so I am fascinated to see how Edwards, approaches this because I cannot for the life of me imagine he's going to come in viewing this that he can just do the same thing and think think that he can reasonably have success but I don't know if we're going to see him be more aggressive with his striking if he's going to try and push push Usman backwards more because that's obviously where he succeeded if he's just going to for lack of a better words chuckle like just be like all right let's sit down and let's go I think that that would benefit him but also maybe he just takes from it confidence that I can I can pull this off at any time I don't have to get aggressive I don't have

to get out over my skis I can let the fight come to me which I think would be really bad but we'll see so my questions are entirely about Edwards's approach to this what he's going to look like because I think we're going to get the exact same Kumar Uzman we've had for the last four years I don't think anything will change in his approach to this fight one of my big questions and you know obviously we host the matchmaking show so we think about different things but On heck of a morning, so many questions I've been getting this week and last week, Jed, about this fight is, where does Kamara Uspin go from a win or a loss? And we'll get to some of that in a minute. But what people aren't really asking about that I'm interested in Jed is Leon Edwards is in a really interesting spot himself because he lands the kick heard around the world. Got such a boost from that. Now he's headlining in his home country. Obviously, it's a massive deal for him.

If he wins, he is in an incredible position. Fresh matchups. He gets to be a freaking prize fighter. He gets to kind of pick his poison in a lot of respects. He could end up defending the title against Jorge Mazadol next if Mazadol beats Gilbert Burns because of how things have been set up. But the question I have is, and it's a negative one, what if he loses here?

What if Leon loses this fight? Because it took him forever to get a title shot to begin with, passed over time and time again. and while a loss is very is pretty devastating for Kamar Usman is a loss devastating for Leon as well like if he loses this fight to Kamar Usman where the hell does he go um I haven't really thought about it that's interesting it's I don't it's devastating because it will devastate him I don't think it's devastating in the long arc of his career right uh if Leon wins I am a lot less sure than you seem to be about his opportunity to be a prize fighter um because

that requires the UFC to view you as a prize fighter and to play along that game. I think there is a world certainly where if Mastredal can somehow beat Gilbert Burns, then yeah, they'll probably do that. That's good business. But if he doesn't, then Leon's probably fighting Shavkat or Hamzat. And that's not my definition of prize fighting. Getting your ass beat and losing your belt is not. how I would say being prize fighter goes.

But if he loses, I think that it's okay. One, you can never take back. He's champ forever. He gets to say I was an undisputed, legitimate UFC champion. You know, you get to be called champ by all the guys at the gym forever. That's on the wall forever. You can't take back what happened at, is that 2708? 278, whatever event that was.

You can't take that back. He also probably will end up going into the UFC Hall of Fame, which was by no means of certainty. But if not as a fighter, then, you know, the greatest comeback, greatest headkick knockout in the history of the UFC probably will get him enshrined there in one way or another. So all of that is kind of house money. And if he loses, it will suck. It won't be great, obviously. fortunately you already pointed out that there's still the hoary mosterol thing baked in and you just go right to that cause or he's going to get his ass beat by gilbert burns so then you can finally just do that and that is a fight that can

co-main event of pay-per-view headline a fight night certainly maybe you do it just in london obviously the scene of the original crime you can just run that back so he'll have options particularly because he can stay in the title conversation because I think none of I think it's a long shot to believe Usman has that much more left in him he reclaims the belt maybe he fights a couple of more times in this division but do we think he's really trying

to come here and fight against Hamzat and Shavkat and Balamohmohama and I think he's got bigger bigger fish to fry the Edwards fight was a setback for his overall plan and journey that's how he's viewing it and so if he can get his belt back then maybe he can get

back to I can go fight at heavyweight or whatever so box Canelo so I think Leon has some options even with the loss and he won the fight that mattered so it will suck for him and it would sting but you can't take away

what happened and that moment will live forever and so he'll ultimately be okay that's a good way to look at it and just kind of meant you know in the overall title picture if he loses this fight like because I think Shafcott is a is a very strong option for him if he loses.

They just like, all right, well, now you can go fight freaking Shafcott. And who knows if Oosman loses and we'll get to that in a moment. But what's at stake for Leon Edwards here, Brian? What if, what if Leon loses this fight? Because where does that put him in the overall landscape of this division? Because he had the moment, the UFC is riding that wave all the way into the UK right now, all the way into this big event. But it took forever to get on that wave and to get on that surfboard with him.

So how devastating would a loss be here? if he drops the belt before defending it. I think it's pretty devastating. I'm not as optimistic as Jed. I think you got the Jorge fight baked in, like he said. But other than that, does Leon Edwards really want to go through the ringer at 170 again? I don't really see a fourth fight with Usman being all that appealing to many people,

especially if Usman wins this fight. You know, you know, another conversation is Lehmud Jed just completely dismissed all the middle wage. You know what I mean? They're all trashed in the jet. So Leon Edwards is a big guy. He's six, too.

lean, but he's big. I mean, pop up, right? I mean, you know, 170's a shark tank. Pop up to 85. You might match up well. I mean, you know, he's not a small guy. I had a little side. He's got a little bit of waist, but he, you know, it's pretty lean. But I think this is pretty devastating. I think this is, this is a big thing. I hope he doesn't come out and it's just happy that he's been a champion. And now he can just do whatever. He's young enough. He's talented enough. But I think that besides the horny fight, I don't think there's much at 170 besides he's going to get stapled with that big gatekeeper stamp, you know, and I don't think that's him. I think he's too talented for that. maybe a change of the visions, you know, I, uh, but yeah, I think, uh, I think it's a pretty

devastating loss for Leon Edwards. Oh. And see, you're, you're factoring in old Leon. There's a dividing line here. Leon won the belt. That's no, like, that's like a substantially matters because instead of being the dude no one likes and they don't want to give him a title fight. Now he remains in the, like he will move to number one in the rankings and he will be former

champion Leon Edwards, which, will functionally put him, not as long as Kamaro stays there because Kamar won the rivalry, but it will functionally put him one fight out of a title shot. It will not ever be the same for Leon and I have to win eight more to get back to this. It's, okay, I'll go beat up Hori Mossadol for the money. And then if Kamar is still there, maybe I fight Colby, if Colby ever fights again. Like he gets those fights now. Winning the belt was enormous for him for a hundred different reasons. But it's, it gives him that banked insecurity now. where he doesn't have to go back to being

I'll be the guy who fights Sean Brady or whatever. Right. I'm just, I got the Johnny Hendricks in my mind. Remember Johnny won the belt? He finally won it and then he just disappeared. Lost the rob. Johnny, Johnny dived off a cliff.

Like a living. Listen, I want to strap. That's what I keep thinking with these guys who want, all they want is the title. I want to be champion. Now they're championed forever and they take that nose dive. You know,

that's not how the Johnny Henderson's eye. I don't want to curse Leon Edwards. But I do think, you know, he does have the distinguishes being champion. But, you know, that can that could sell in any division. But yeah, I just think it's a big win for Leon Edwards this weekend. I really do. Well, certainly. Yeah.

Well, if that does happen, that means Kamara Usman has to fight somebody, Jed. So is it a law? Like, because hot, like, you could throw Hamzat's name in there. You think he's just done? Why is it? Yeah. He's done or he's moving up a weight class. I would venture to say it's more likely he moves up a weight class, depending on the outcome.

I think either way, either way for Usman, his next move will largely be dictated by what happens at 287. If Beheado beats Izzy again and Izzy's no longer the middleweight champion, I'm probably going to see an escalator movement here. Izzy will now be well back in getting another middleweight title fight. with Beheada in charge. He's talked about moving up to 205, but doing it the right way, putting on the way, I think we'll probably see Izzy at that point, just say, all right, let's, I don't know what else to do.

This seems like a good move. We'll do that, which then opens the door for Usman to be like, cool, now I can bump up and I can avenge my buddy by trying to be the guy to beat Alex Beheada. I obviously can grapple, which is the book, at least on Beheada. if Usman loses why in God's name would he fight like Shavkat or Hamzaa or like if he just needs the money or wants to do it but before Edwards he was talking one footish out the door and that's why I said like to me he came into the Edwards fight thinking that that would either be his last or his second to last Walterway fight maybe he would have fought

Hamzat but he was then going to try and chase something bigger to end his career on a high note, Edwards kicked those plans to the dirt. Now he's trying to reclaim the belt, but I believe that he will view that as a side quest functionally. And then he can go back to the bigger plan. So if he loses, I just, it's going to fight Belal Muhammad? Why? To what end in purpose?

Like, I just, he's either retiring or he's moving to middleweight. I feel, I'd bet money on that. Are you as confident in that, Brian? I just don't know if there's like, like, if Usman beat Edwards and continue, you this streak in this conversation about whether or not he's the best to wait of all time. And by the way, even if he had beat Leon Edwards, he's still not the best to wait at all time.

He's the second best welterweight of all time. If he goes out there and just beats Leon, is there going to be like a public want for him to move up and fight Pereira or Adasania? Well, he's not going to fight Osama, but to go fight Pereira or go fight Jamal Hill or go up to 2005. I just don't know if the need is there. I don't think people will be clamoring for that. Do you?

No, I don't think so. Remember the stare-down with Yon? You know, he's going to 205. He's the same size as Yon. You know, that was a talk. I won't find my buddy Izzy. Jed made a good point. I do think if Izzy loses to Alex again, then yeah, there is a need for Uzman to move up,

maybe get a double champ status or whatever, you know, two titles, two different divisions, and kind of call it a career because the knock or the big rumor on Usman, I don't know how big rumor this is, is he's got no knees. His knees are shot. Like his knees are bad, apparently. You know, he tells everyone that everyone reports it, you know, um, um, But yeah, I mean, listen, I think Bala was next at 170 for sure. I don't think Uzman would take that fight.

I think Uzman might be like, all right, I'm going to sit out for a little bit. I got my revenge. Maybe I'll go to 185, maybe go to 205. But yeah, there's not much of a need for that. I don't think. I mean, I'm a hardcore fan. I love the sport. I mean, Uzman versus Pereira.

I mean, what I watch it, of course, but like it's not something I'm clambered for. There's plenty of guys at 85 I like to see, you know? And Uzman at 170 is you're going to run through the Shofcox. He's going to run through, you know, the Belouse. I don't know. I think Edwards and Bilau have a nice little thing baked in because of how the first fight went. That would make sense of Edwards win. Hopefully Jorge doesn't leap for a Belau because I think Bilau deserves it.

But yeah, I just, you know, Ousman's kind of in limbo here too. I think, you know, maybe up to 85 might be the best thing for him or he'll leapfrog that all together and go to 205 because, I mean, he could fight Jamal Hill. Jamal Hill, you know, he's kind of hot right now. Jamal's a big guy. Ousman's not that big of a guy. I mean, he's pretty bricked up, but he's not like the biggest guy in the world. So I don't know. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

Maybe he'll call it a career. Maybe you go, you know what? I got my revenge to you. I'm out. I don't know. We'll see Saturday. For the love of God, let's not give credence to the nonsense of him moving up to 205. That's just not real life.

He stared him at? He stared at him. He did. And when you took it, even taking that stare down at a very obviously favorable angle for Usman, he wasn't as big. Weight classes exist for a freaking reason. We're here talking, friggin' a month ago. Assholes, and you're going to know who I'm talking about.

We're like, if I weighed the same as Islam, I'd have won, but that extra 10 pounds made all the difference in the world, and we're just going to pretend that the 45 pounds of difference between Usman and Jamal Hill would not be substantive. This is nonsense. Though it was nonsense from the jump, it's nonsense now. He can go to middle. weight, that's fine.

Alex Beheada is already an enormous middleweight. That's plenty for him to chew. Amazing. Jed said before we got on, I don't know if I have a lot of fire in me, but it came out. His face actually got a little bit red. That's because we brought up the really dumb.

What if he goes up to light heavyweight? It was just the stupidest thing. The day it happened, it was just like, this is. Oh, good God. Incredible. All right. Love it.

Let's move on. Let's move on to another big and fascinating fight on this card. The point for round two goes to Mr. No Gray area. That was a nice little rant. Oh, get him fired up. There he is. One to one. Too nice a day outside to be mad.

That's very true. It is very nice out in our neck of the woods. It's lovely, great golf weather. But you know who likes to play golf? Justin Gachie likes to play golf. But he won't be playing golf on the, Saturday. No, no, no. He'll be locked in a cage with Raphael Fazeve because this fight is happening and it is glorious. It's just one of those fights that you just keep saying out loud to yourself

and telling your friends about saying those names aloud and it just gets better and better. And it's the co-main event for Saturday's UFC 286 event. And this fight is something else. Jed, I know you like this fight. What word best describes Justin Gage versus Raphael Fizib and why? Oh, you know what? I'm going to go, I'm going to take it back. I'm going to take it all the way back. This is, oh, I can't say that on air. Never mind.

This is dope. This is dope. This fight's dope. Look, I don't know. I know Gaci said yesterday that he's the most exciting fighter in the history of UFC. And I was surprised at how little pushback that got, not because it's false. but because people love to be contrarian about stuff. But like most everybody kind of seem to be on board with it.

Of like, yeah, that's actually fair because it is. Like it's totally true. This man joined the UFC in 2017. In his six years with the promotion, he's had three fight of the years. And one of those years, he also had the number three fight of the year in the same year. Like he has been responsible for like in his 10 UFC fights or whatever he has like 12 bonuses or something dumb like it is the man has never never even come close to being in a boring fight he simply doesn't know how to do it and on the other end of it I don't know if you guys know this for Zeev's on quite a bit of a heater as far as fun shit goes down his last five fights he's either gotten performance of the night or fight of the night like I don't. this is this is about as guaranteed excitement as you could possibly get like there's the only fight honestly that I would be more confident in would deliver something incredibly cool is the one

fight I've asked for for six years at this point of Gaichi versus McGregor it's the only fight that I could be more certain would be a fight of the year contender but this is when when Gaichi said at media day like I don't not to be arrogant or whatever whatever, but basically I've one fight of the year every year since I've been here. And I'm really excited to fight a guy who I think can give me another opportunity at that. Like, that's not bragging if it's true. And that's what we're in for. Like, there is every possibility that this is just the fight of the year for 2023.

And I'm here for it. I'm more excited for this fight than anything else this month. And as we know, this has been an excellent month of fighting. Brian, what's your word to describe this fight? It's going to be technique. Don't sweat the technique. Listen, I am all over Viseev in this fight. I gave my pick on the Antiquin.

Kenny and I are on opposite sides. I just think when you look at Justin Gachie, he's more focused on this week, at least from the presser. Yeah, he's the most deciding fighter in the world. You know, he's doing this. He's one fighting. But let's talk about winning.

I know he flirted out there. He's like, hey, I'll fight Porier, but I think I deserve a title shot. For one win over Chandler, like, you know what I mean, you're not fighting active enough. you got, you know, dog walk by it could be, beat Chandler, then every time Oliver touched you, you got put to the ground.

Fazeeb, I think, might be the best striker at 155. And a lot of people, during narrative this week, when they're breaking this fight, they keep going back to the Bobby Green fight. All he faded in the Bobby Green fight. He threw over 100 punches the Bobby Green fight. He also went five rounds RDA, knocked him out in the fifth round. This guy, I think, is legit, and I think people are sleeping on him a little bit. I think this fight is going to be action-packed.

I'm also little worried about Justin's ability to take a shot anymore. can he do it because he got put down multiple times by olivera which listen all there is one of the best in the world don't be wrong but it was pretty easy for olivera to put him down and uh i just think fazeva is on another level i think his technique is great i think you got the junkyard dog and then gaitch he's got the more dog in him but i think fazev man this guy's technique is is good i mean the only loss he has is of spinning back fist by mustaya a million years ago out of nowhere um i'm i'm i'm with jet this is the fight i'm looking for to the most and I got a strong lean of Viziv here. I got a I got a couple of shackles on to myself. So yeah, don't don't sweat the technique boys. Jed, are you with him on that or are you on the other side of the the betting window? I'm not with him on the people are sleeping on the minus 225 favorite of Phil Fiziv. Like, and I always sleeping on him when you're a comfortable betting favorite.

It's 430 the way I look at this fight. I think Justin's done. Okay. He's done. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think people are sleeping on him. He's the not prohibitive, but a comfortable favorite.

Look, logically, that's the correct way to approach this fight. I too have concerns about what Justin Gachie's chin looks like. Because he said it himself when he came to the UFC. He was like, I can't do this forever. This has an expiration date. And when it comes, it will probably come fast. And yeah, every time he got touched, he basically fell over against Olivera. But Oliver tends to have the ability to do that.

So it's suspect not convicted at this point in time. I can't pick against Gaci just because he's done so much good violence in my life. Like, it feels morally wrong to bet against this man. So I am not betting on Fazeve basically as a moral imperative for me. But if I'm looking at a way for Gai Chi to succeed in this fight, I think that he does have a real path here. And part of it is I have a firm belief that Trevor Whitman knows how to prepare, knows how to attack weaknesses and kind of move forward. And Fiziv has a couple of flaws, the primary one being he will get drawn into brawling. you should just never do that with Justin Gachie.

Like, even though you might win, you're going to come out the worst, worse for it. Like, it's, it's just not the way to approach this. But he's willing to stand in there and do that. And he has been oddly susceptible to bodyworks and kicks, which Gachi himself, very susceptible to bodyworks and Fiziv is probably going to rip to the ribs a ton, but he gets hit back a lot. And the times we've seen Fiziv look the most impressive were largely, when fighters weren't willing to engage with him in like a pure let's get after it, you know,

Muay Thai fight. That's when he actually hasn't, like the Bobby Green fight, less about the fading more that he was fighting that whole fight. It wasn't the RDA fight where RDA was largely getting stuffed on takedowns and then getting tuned up on the feet. So I think that there's an avenue for Gaiji to Gachie up this fight real, real ugly, and then it'll just be sick.

And Fiziv might still win that fight. Like, that's totally a possibility. But I don't think this is going to be Gachie getting taken to school like I've seen some people read this fight. I think this fight's going to be ugly for stretches and it's going to be great as a result. Both guys can breathe out of their nose. Gagie is like the first time he's been able to breathe out of his nose in like a decade. So that's going to be very interesting to watch. And, you know, Fiziv's going to be a little bit better.

the chin will probably be better breathe and your mouth's not open yeah your chin will be better yeah there you go um obviously Brian this is a massive fight for both guys massive for the division because gaichi is a player always and people love him the UFC loves him

even throwing him into title fights does not seem crazy because people just love Justin Geichi and the UFC does as well and he's been finished in two out of three both were title fights mind you He has the win over Chandler sandwich in between. Another fight of the year. And Favit, Fiziv is just a friggin monster.

He's another exciting guy, surging up the ladder. Huge opportunity. Like we talked about, he's pretty sizably favored to win this fight. So not, we're not talking about, like, your opinion or your betting or anything like that. If you are the commissioner of the UFC's lightweight division, what do you think is the best result for this fight? A Gagee win or a Fiziv win? There's two schools of thought. I'm just going with my gut instinct and say a Gachi win because he's so exciting, right?

I mean, Fiziv's a guy that is still kind of on the fringe, a lot of hardcore people know him, but some of the, I'm going to use the C word here. Some of the casuals might not know him all that well. You know he hasn't been platformed all that well. And Gage is a guy, people know. I get people who know nothing about the UFC go, hey, you say that Justin and they mispronounce his name fight, you know, well, Chandler or whatever. So I think it'd be beneficial, but he also can create like a logjam because are him and

Poria going to fight again? Is that going to happen? Who's going to win that? you know, we've seen Gaiji fight Khabib, is he going to fight Islam? Does he get a shot in the title? You know, there's a lot of variables there that were it could be some old blood clogging up the top there, whereas Fiziv's a new blood. That would be interesting to see, but there's more of a following and more of a must-see

aspect with Justin Gachi that I think the UFC is going to be like, oh, we can ride with this guy for at least a little bit longer. I think he's 34, 35 years old. I know the type of Korea's had, he might wrap up a little sooner than normal, but I think he's got at least three, four more good years and a more they're going to have must see TV titles or not. They can put them in there with anybody. And like Jed said, him and Connor McGregor,

if they ever cross paths, I mean, that's going to be a fucking blockbuster fight. Jed, now Brian is fired and you're the new commissioner. It's a hostile takeover. Do you agree with him or is it the other way around? What was the original question? Sorry. What's the, what's the, you being the commissioner,

the new commissioner of the UFC's lightweight division, what is the best result for this fight? Gachi winning or Fiziv winning? Oh, Gachi winning, for sure. For sure, for sure. It's easy. It gives us something to do with Dustin Poyer, which I think is pretty important.

Sorry, I've got something in my throat right now. It's been fun. Fiziv would fight Poree, but Pfezsche will never fight Hafeil Faziv. He wouldn't fight Bini Dary. She's not going to fight Hafeel Fassiv. But if Gaiji wins this, is a very clear path

at that point. Like, Benile Daryush, if he can get past Oliver, it gets the next title fight, and Porier and Gaichi can fight it out, the fight of the year. They can run that back. We've been waiting on it. And this time it will be for the title fight. It will be essentially a number one eliminator, right? So the easiest best big business for them is certainly to have the guy people love and adore win the fight,

particularly when it sets up into so many other things. Whereas if Fiziv wins, the question. is what happens to Fazeve. He's probably not getting a title fight unless like a lot of things break really well for him. And none of the people who will be ranked above him will fight him. So it's just, then he'll just be there and be like, all right, I guess I'll fight Armand Saurukian or whatever. Like it's, it doesn't work for Fiziv winning is much more complicated and the outcomes are are much less marketable.

It's obviously Gachi winning. You don't think, you think if Fiziv just has this. friggin all-time classic with Porre and he gets him out of there that Porre would be excited for that fight? I think that he would take that fight. You don't think so? It's a different style than Darius.

Like Darius, he's going to have to scramble and do all sorts of different things. But I feel like Fizim kind of gives him the kind of fight he wants. It's less about the style and more about the name of the dude he's fighting. But doesn't he get a nice name if he beats just a Gagee?

I don't know. I genuinely have no idea that he gets like a huge boost from it. I mean, he will get some, but it's not the same. Like, look at the dude. Who were the guys that Dustin Poy has fought recently? He fought Michael Chandler, an enormous star. Oliver for the belt. I'm not even sure he would have fought Oliver, not for the belt, but obviously the belt there.

Connor twice, and that's really the demarcating line. Since the Connor rematches where he won, Dustin Poy leveled up in stardom and his fights were for the belt, and the next best thing. And then the other fight that was pitched that made sense was Nate Diaz, because Nate Diaz is an equivalent level star. If Fiziv wins, he is not in the ballpark of that. He wouldn't even be a Michael Chandler star, probably. So I just don't think Dustin's going to take that fight.

Like, it's maybe it will be more likely than if he loses, certainly, but I don't. I think he would take the Gaichi fight if Gauchy wins. I'm not at all confident he's taking the physique. fight. Fair. That's why we have the show. We talk these things out and we look at we have different perspectives here. But, uh, Jet, how bad is a loss hurt Justin Gachie? Because I know you guys talked about it. You get, you got a roundtable about is it? How bad is it? Because it hurts, obviously, but I don't, his title aspirations may be fading away if he loses this fight. But they're gone.

I don't think it, yeah, but I don't think it changes people's opinions when they see a poster and Justin Gagee is on there that he's about to fight. I don't think the reaction changes all that much because they know what they're going to get from this guy. Well, it won't change the fan perspective at all. No one is going to care because if he loses, it will be exciting and violent. And if he wins, it will be exciting and violent because that's who Justin Gagey is. It wouldn't totally shock me if he retired after a loss. I'm not saying that that will happen, but I think it's very much in play if he loses here because the title aspirations will be done.

There will be no viable path back to the belt in a lightweight division that's getting younger, getting better, and it's still just impossible to make headway, as mentioned before. So he would then just be in the, I'm just going to continue to put on my kind of fights against people. And I don't know who, I think he's a little more open to just scrapping than the employee is at this point in his career. And so I'm not entirely sure who that would make sense for. I mean, there would be plenty of fights that you could just matchmake that I'd be down for. Give me, you know what would kick all the ass in the world? Justin Gachi versus Hori Masfadol would rule shit. Like, you could do a number of those kind of fights cross-weight classes just scrapping it.

You know what else kicks ass? Justin Gachie, Max Holloway. That fight is fight of the year. I guarantee it. I would bet a substantial amount of money that if you match those two, dude's up fight of the year. He might hang around just because the Connor fight might still be there depending on how the Connor and Chandler goes. And that is still the, that's my nirvana. It's the only thing I ever want from this sport. But it also wouldn't shock me if he says,

hey, I've, I now have five knockout or five losses on my record, four of them were knockouts and one Habib Habibh me. So, you know, I've just taken too much. I can't get back to the title. I've sacrificed enough future health. I'm going to move forward. I suspect he'll stay in it round, but honestly, the most fun part of his career can be post a KO,

but any of his legacy defining runs like that, you know, getting a true undisputed belt, that will be gone forever. I love how Justin Gagy, like all these years back was like, I only got like a punch card full of wars left. And then like six years later,

he's like, well, I've only had one. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? He goes, no, it's just the Charles Oliver fight. That was the only war I've had since. I said that. Like, none of those other fights you consider wars? No, not the Chandler fight. No, don't consider that a war.

It's insane. What if you, he's wild. He's cut from a different cloth, man, which is why, like, I won't even be that sad if he loses. Because, like, if he wins, sure, we get fight of the year with Dustin Porre. They run that back. If he loses, we can fight in the year with Max Holloway. or fight of the year with Horace Mastin.

Like there's just no bad ant. There's no wrong way to eat that Reese's Mike. He's the best. Brian, what happens if Gatje loses this fight? I think it depends how he loses, right? So if he gets knocked out, that would be two fights in a row now where his chin has looked susceptible. And I know he's going against an elite striker. So that's here said.

But then all of a sudden all these, you know, Homer Simpson things are throwing up like, oh, you know, he's taking a lot of wars. but there's plenty of fights for him. I mean, Max Holloway, like Jedds had. I mean, and Porreye's not coming off because Porre is sitting on that top of that Connor McGregor money. He's on the McGregor Mountain money, not coming off that until something intrigues him, you know?

And Gachey might intrigue him. Gachy might want that Connor McGregor money. I wouldn't be surprised if he retires either, but the problem is I think if he retires, I think Bear Knuckles is going to be come knocking on his door and offer him a shitload of money. And I feel like a guy like Justin Gachie cannot turn that down. Plus, he probably loves it.

that, you know, just loves the idea of fighting someone bare knuckle. But, yeah, there's a ton of fights for him. He's still marketable. He's one of the guys that doesn't have to win. He just has to show up and perform the way he does. He's never been in a boring fight ever. But yeah, I think, you know, if he gets knocked out, I think there's going to be some questions about maybe his chin, his durability and his longevity in the career, which he has

referenced several times throughout his career. But if he loses like a weird decision, then, I mean, yeah, who knows? But I don't see that happen. I mean, Justin Gachie doesn't fight to a decision. So, yeah, I think just the way he looks. loses and then a million options for him. I don't think he's going to have a problem finding a fight. Can't out wait for that

fight. Let us move on. Jed, do you have anything more to add? No, Justin Gachie rules. Inside. You had a look at your face. I thought you had more to say. No. No, just he's awesome. You remember when Chris Lytle actively made the decision after he lost his like title fight or whatever, or not title fight, but he lost to Matt

Sarah, he was arguably robbed to get a title fight? And he, like, spoke openly about it after he was like, yeah, so I realized I wasn't ever going to get a title shot. So I just became fun as shit. And I wanted a bunch of bonus money. And my kids go to college now. I want that for Gaichi. I want, a Gechie's already sort of made that calculus. But now if we really remove the title fight at all, I'm talking myself into being really comfortable with a loss is what I'm saying.

Because adjusting Gaichi with absolutely. zero Fs to give for whatever Fs he's had now that's what I'm here for give me late career Justin Gachie fighting Drew Dober that will be insane you know like

just do that Drew Dover getting ready to fight Matt Revolta how about that That's a freaking banger It's gonna be fun Look at Jedmish you have As long as we don't get like Gaichy versus

There's no disrespect to him But you know I love Matush Gamrott That's the fight I'm the least interested in watching the Justin Gagee can do. Like, don't give me power grappling. Let's do the thing right, guys. Well, let's move on. The point for round three goes to, despite an emotional hedge from Jed Mishu, it goes to Brian.

It's two to one. Good. Good, go. You took us on a journey, Jed, and you know how I appreciate a good journey when it comes to talking through things. So Marshall's buyers travel far and wide, hustling for great deals on amazing gifts. So you don't have to. They've bagged this season's Italian leather handbags. Designer.

Handpicked the finest sweaters from the rest. Ooh, cashmere. Landed makeup pallets from the brands you love. Rushes too. And hustled all those wishless topping toys. So plush. Our buyers have got you covered. Marshalls.

We get the deals. You gift the good. It's the matcha or the three ensemble Cato Cephora of the FACET that I just need to denichie who energize over? Mm, it's the ensemble. The format standard and mini

regrouped? Call-Obbin. And the embellage, too beau, who is practically to give to them. And I know that I should have the

Summer Fridays and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. I'm just the most most beautiful endow of the Fesferra

Cepora. Summer Fridays, Rare Beauty, way, Cifora collection and other part of Vite. Procurry you

Corma Stodare for a better that it's been pre-on-line on Ceporeaucea or in magazine. Let's put a bow on the UFC 286 sort of preview here on BTL. Jed, we'll start with you here. How do you grade this card as a whole? We have the title fight. We mentioned the co-main event.

It's sandwiched in between two pretty stacked cards. 285 was like the card of cards with the return of John Jones. So much buzz behind that. I feel like there's a lot of buzz on 287. There's some buzz here for sure, but I, I feel like this is, and I don't mean this is respectful, this is the less casual appealish of the three cards here. So where are you grading this as a whole?

B minus. Certainly not bad. The main card is very good. So if we're just looking at the main card, that number gets bumped up a little bit because the main event has such intrigue. We just talked about the co-main event and all the great things that are coming there.

And the other fights were relevant. they might not be the most interesting. Marvin Vittori, Roman DeLieze is obviously very good, but if Vittori is all over them, that's not something most people care too much to watch. Gunner Nelson's going to run right through Brian Barbarana, so your entertainment will vary there. And then a women's flyweight bout, that could be a tough hang.

I mean, we'll see. It could be fun, could be a tough hang. But the main card is at least relevant, fights of matter. They're good fights, well made. So it's a good main card. This card is doing a lot of living on the main card and living in the market. 15 fights is a lot of fights, even though we're getting an early start time, still a lot of fights.

And there's just, there's some chafe here, man. It's just what it is. Not all of these fights need to be happening. Some of them, it feels like a lot of this is happening because people wanted to fight in London. And so they're trying to get their bang for their buck there. You're going to get a lot of fights, and many of them, many of the undercard fights have something at least about them, but they lack the heft to make me stand up and be like, this is appointment viewing starting at 1 p.m. on Saturday until midnight or however long this infernal thing is going to run. So the main card is very strong. So it gets a B, B, minus, because they're just a lot of fights and not all of them are fights that get you get you, get you, get you.

up, you know. Brian, what's your grade? Yeah, I'm going to give it a B plus, just slightly above Jed there. You know, the undercard is, it's stacked full of England talent. Christian Leroy Duncan's a guy. I've been, keep my on for a while. I'm really interested in how he performs against Dusco. You got Lorone Murphy against Gabriel Santos.

I think that's a great fight as well. And I'm really intrigued by Marvin Vittori Restorma to Deleitze. Kind of weird beef. They got something going on. They used to train. I don't know what's going on. Deleet's a fun fighter. He looked great against Ramson.

Marradoritory impossible to get out of there. As a betting standpoint, A plus, I have a lot of sides I like on this. Obviously, the co-main main event's good. I mean, we got the main card's great.

Jennifer Meyervers, Case O'Neil, coming back from the injury. A lot of question marks there. I agree. I think Gunter Nelson's going to butcher right through Brian Barbarina. And then, you know,

there's some English guys on there. You know, Muhammad Mulcayev is an interesting guy talking a lot. Jake Hadley talking a lot. There's some fun English talent over there. The pre-lim portion very cage warry, a lot of Cage Warriors stars, some contenders to your guys. And then the meat of the card, I think is good.

But I'm going to go B plus just because I'm really interested in some of these fighters as well, see what they see what they bring out. Christian Leeward Duncan, again, it's a guy I've been hearing a lot about me. It's been a while since someone from Cage Warriors' promotion has come out, you know, with this hype that he's got with the, he's only 7 and 0. So it's interesting. But yeah, B plus. Jed, true or false, you have a, I have not listened to Obetzbar.

yet. I'm planning on listening to some today. Is there a Chris, Christian Duncan prop? Oh, there sure is. A Duncan parlay? There are two Chris Duncan's on this card. How do you not, how do you not parlay the two Chris Duncan's on this card?

Like, this was a chef's kiss moment. Respect to Sean Shelby and McMainter for this one. Because if you have, we may never get this again. We may never get a fight card with two, Chris Duncan's on it again. So you had to for sure.

Mike, you know me so well. I knew it was coming. As soon as he mentioned Christian Leroy Duncan, I'm like, oh yeah, there's another, there's a Chris Duncan on the sky card. Jed's definitely far laying the phone. Jed's definitely far laying. No doubt about it.

Real quick, real quick, 30 seconds or less. Brian, I'll start with you. You mentioned Christian Leroy Duncan. We'll go a little deeper here because he's a guy you've been high on for a while. What's the low-key fighter to watch on this card? So Christian Lever-Dunkins, one of them. I'm really interested in San Patterson as well.

I feel like he's got a big number next to him. He's a huge, tall, skinny guy. I don't think he looked great in the contended series. And it's almost like I want to fade him so bad, but I think he's going to win with this chunky number that he's got, but this is a guy I'm going to look forward in the future. Either he's better than I think, or he's a little weak, and I think people are going to maybe play him up a little bit.

He's an interesting guy there. I think Jack Shore going to 45 is interesting. Coming off of Simone Moss, I think he's a guy to look out for it, too. and then Mohama Mokai, I mean, minus 800, 22 years old, 23 years old, starting beef with everybody in London town right now. You know, he's got a decent little test in front of him. Let's see if he goes out there and actually delivers an exciting fight

or maybe if he just relies on his wrestling. But the main guy I'm looking for is Christian Leroyd Duncan because I think he's something special. Jen. I think I am going to go with Sam Patterson, actually, to maybe to play devil's advocate. You never know. On No Bet's Bar, great program.

Make sure you go listen to it. We had a couple of guests this week. One of them was Alex Rich Inks, who works with MMA on point. I believe he's doing the UFC's official watch along because Jens Pover's doing something else this weekend. Getting fitted for a suit for his Hall of Fame induction maybe. But we had Alex on, and Alex, UK guy, was super high on San Patterson, was talking him up. I didn't put a lot of time or thought into this fight, frankly. because why would I?

But he was like, yeah, no, everybody over here, Sam Patterson is, he's, I mean, he's got attributes to steal a phrase from Connor McGregor, big, big dude, and he was super high on what this kid can achieve moving forward. So he sold me, particularly with the rest of this car where some of these matchups are interesting or whatever,

like Jake Hadley, Malcolm Gordon will probably be fun. But especially this week, it's just like, man, it would be a lot cooler if Jake Hadley, and Muhammad Mikhail for fighting. Like that would make a lot more sense. And I'd be way more interested in that fight than both of them fighting guys who I don't really care about.

So in the absence of stuff like that, you know, I'm always down to watch Shy Herbert get busy because he's going to win or lose in funny fashion. Like he's going to do something really cool or have something really cool done to him, just ask Elliot Tuporio. So, you know, I'm cool with that.

But I think Alex kind of sold me. I'm like, okay, if you guys, are this big on Sam Patterson. Let's see what he's bringing to the table. I'm excited for the return of Lorone Murphy, finally getting back into the cage, first time in like a year and a half for him. So finally it's a fight.

He gave a fight too. Yeah, it's a big good fight. Big, legit guy, yeah. Yeah, it's going to be a fun. Let's see how he looks. I'm very excited. Somebody's always got to go. So let's,

you know we're all the most excited to watch Makwan, I'm your Connie, gas out after four and half minutes. That's the way. It like clockwork. I can't wait. It's probably going to happen.

So yeah. All right. The point for round four goes to Jedmishu. It's two to two. We know what that means. It means it's time for the knockout round. One question will decide at all. Neither of these gentlemen know what the question is.

I thought of it like 10 minutes ago. I was like, oh shit, I need to think of a knock around question. And I think I just have the perfect one. Writing gimmick. it's the perfect question to go. So Jed, how do you not think of a knockout round question when you're literally making the topic matter?

How is that not like part of you making the subject matter? I had like, well, I had ideas and then Connor was on the MA hour and I was like, well, maybe something will come from that. And then I didn't think anything would land here.

And then I'm like, I got to think of something. And I usually find something as you're going along. But now, but I have it. I have it. I know where I'm going at this. So Jed, you have the prerogative, but this is going to be one of those funky questions.

Okay? You can decide whether you want to go first or last or if you want to choose the surprise door, the secret door. I will go second. I will go second. So you're going to choose the door? No, I'm not choosing the door. I'm going second. I'm choosing to go second.

All right. So Brian, you're going to go second. first and you get to choose the door here so you can choose door number one or door number two always door two okay so part of the mary hour great program uh franzangano was on the show franzangano is on the show and when talking about his mhm a career and his aspirations says this is down to two there are two very serious offers on the table that he is considering one is from one championship the other is from the people So you are no longer Brian Petrie, Brian. Yes.

You are Ray Sefo. The man behind the PFL, it's choosing day. You have one minute to make your final pitch to Francis and Gano to sign him to your promotion. Because today is the day he's going to make that decision hypothetically. So one minute on the clock, Ray Sefo sell France and Gano and why you should go to the PFL. Go. Here we go.

Hey, I'm Ray Sefo. Mike, by the way, I wanted to say your deadlift pitcher. You're looking yoke, my guy. Uh, anyway, Francis, come over to PFL. The heavyweight division is weak. You want a million bucks. You can have it with not even breaking a sweat here. I mean, who do we got in the heavyweight division?

Not many people. You come over here. We'll give your family all free t-shirts that they already have in Cameroon, because, you know, we sent a custom, uh, bundle out there. You can have all those. We got you a million bucks right here. You can go box Tyson Fury, which I think is a bad idea. Don't do it, but you can go do it.

Get a couple million that way. Come back, knock out some cab drivers, get a couple more million dollars. What we're talking about here is money, Francis. You want flexibility? We can do that. You want to go to the WWE? We can do that. You want to go bare knock on.

We can do that. The PFL is your home. You can do whatever you want here. And the best part is you will be a millionaire for not a lot of work. Bam. There you go. Thank you, Mr. Sefo. And Jed, that makes you the great Chachry Situ Tong.

You are the man behind one championship. Francis has heard the pitch from the PFL. And now it's the last ditch effort. It's the final minute of your opportunity to get Frans and Ghana to sign with your promotion. One minute on the clock, go. Francis, is this even a question? I don't, look, we're talking about signing with the 1B promotion in the world. you know, sure the UFC's 1A, but we're right there with them,

billions of viewers, your brand through the roof. Think of all the new fans you can make with our sort of reach and exposure. And on top of that, I'm not here to talk trash about the PFL, love their product. But they have a very unproven market. They've got a paper view model. How comfortable, confident can you be in that? We'll pay you a million bucks to fight every fight. I don't need you to beat up

who at Bruno Capulosa to get the mill and you can fight real guys Arjean Buller and Atoli Malikin and most importantly PFL's talking about flexibility that's what we do you want to do kickboxing

boom moitai boom grappling boom boxing hell yeah let's rock it put this man in Lupini let's go there and let's knock some heads off Francis very spirited sales pitches

from both guys. Very good. Well, I mean, I, and you were smart. In my defense, I had billions of viewers on my side. Oh, yeah. It's almost like a cheat code right there. So the thing is, I don't make this decision. It's up to the peeps that are watching right now.

So there should be a pull-up in the NBA fighting chat. So cast your vote. Is it Brian or is a Jed? There's the vote now, a little signal right there. and this kind of puts me in a position where I have to waste a few minutes while you guys vote. So the press conference is going on right now, but we know how those press conferences are. They're usually not all that interesting and fun. So the good news is you didn't have to watch it live.

We will have it in its entirety and just crystal clear imagery on the NBA fighting YouTube channel in a little while. So check that out tomorrow. I mean, we're officially on the road. We have, I believe we're going to have a weigh-in show. It's going to be bright and early in the morning for the live way-ins. See if all these fighters can make wait. See who doesn't make weight. There's usually a little bit of drama on the scales.

We'll have a heck of a morning, 10 a.m. tomorrow on the 10 a.m. Eastern on the NBA fighting Twitter spaces. Preview show 2 p.m. Eastern tomorrow. A little bit earlier. So we'll have some fun preview in the car. We'll be live for that. And then Saturday, my happy ass is off to New York first thing in the morning. Watch party, 5.45 p.m. Eastern.

Before that, we'll have people's pre-fight show 12.15 p.m. Eastern time. We do have an early star time. And then, of course, we'll have the press conference. We'll have the post-fight show after the card wraps up. And then AK and I will be back live Sunday morning for a special live edition of On to the next one to do some matchmaking. Jen? Who do we think's missing wait tomorrow?

There's 30 fighters on this card. We're not getting a clean one. And I'm looking at the list and I'm trying to think who would be, the funniest would obviously be Leon Edwards. I don't think that has any chance of happening, but it would certainly be the funniest out-go. Oh, my God, dude. So she's been out for a while.

Oh, that's good on. True. I think Jennifer Maya is. Yeah. She's around. Uh, university. Uh,

I'm going to say it and this is not a disrespect of thing. This is just timing. Um, Gabriel Santos taking this fight on short notice. Wouldn't shock me if he came in a little heavy, but yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I hope the answer is nobody.

Real short notice too. Barbarina's on like pretty short notice, but I don't think he should have trouble with it. Gabriel Santos might actually be the right choice. I think that's a good pick. Yeah, that feels like a pretty good one. Yeah, Barbarina is like, maybe we'll get multiple.

Barbarina thinks he's going to fight every weekend now, so I think he's like always in fight shape and ready to fight. He's also not like an enormous. Like he's not like a huge welterweight, so. This dude wanted to fight freaking Shafcott on a week to notice. He was like ready to go. He's down to clown. How can you not?

Bam Bam, respect, brother, respect. Casey, hello. Thank you for producing this fine program. Do we have a winner? Is this something we can shout out to the world or are we inching closer and closer to a 50-50? Is there a draw and play for this one?

No draw and play, but the fans have spoken. We have a winner. Okay. All right. All right. your winner today with 60% of the fan votes is oops I want to do it one more time I need to get the poor drum roll

your winner today with 60% of the fan votes is Jed Mishou Bye Oh Jay gets it done congratulations Jed It was a great battle A strong closing round That was more of a bowling ball

rolling down the lane than a drummer but excellent sound effects right there. So, Jed, congratulations. You get 30 seconds to talk about whatever you want to talk about and why are you choosing Fight Circus in their upcoming event? I'm going to choose that in a second.

The first thing, if you haven't listened to this week's, go listen to No Bets Bard. On top of our usual stuff, we also had Andrew Collins, the guy who turned $1 into like $430,000 at USC 285, talked to him about his big bet, five crop parlay that paid out enormous odds.

So make sure to check that out. And then end of this month, Mike, Fight Circus is back. We're getting Siamese boxing and on one half of it. One party in the Siamese boxing is Bob Sap and Quentin Rampage Jackson wearing an oversized shirt together. They're boxing John Nutt and some other dude, not entirely sure.

It's the stupidest best thing. Siamese boxing is legitimately. hilarious and I enjoy it the few times it's happened. So I'm very much looking forward to watching a heavy looking Quentin Rampage Jackson tied up with Bob Sapp and just winging them. It's going to be great. Oh, my God. Fight circus is the best.

Combat sports. Just what an incredible time, 2023 is. So all right. Well, thank you for joining us. Brian, I appreciate you jumping on. Any final words for the peeps? No, just go check out. We're in the Draft King's channel now.

I'm the handicapper over there. Great show, great people. And that's it. I appreciate you guys having me on. I really had a lot of fun. And congratulations to Jed, man. I want to sign one FC now. Thank you, Jeff.

Don't we all. A lot of fans in the world out there, you know? Yeah, we're one B. One B, babe. If we can get the billions and billions, let's do it. So Casey could hit the music. We are done. Strap in, everybody.

It's going to be quite a busy next few days here on M-Afighting.com, and we hope you will join us for the entire ride. So for Brian, for Jedmishu, Casey on the ones and twos, I am Mike Heck. Back next week to recap it all right here on Between the Links, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn. Maybe, maybe not takes you home. Good night, everybody.

This has been Between the Links, an MEP fighting production on the Vox Media Network. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media. podcast network.