MMA Fighting - BTL | Makhachev vs. Volkanovski, UFC 284 Fallout, Andrade vs. Blanchfield w/ Luke Thomas

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

This past Saturday night, Islam Makhachev defeated Alexander Volkanovski in one of the most fascinating fights in recent memory at UFC 284, but it has also become one of the most divisive fights in its aftermath.  On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the fallout of Makhachev's first UFC lightweight title defense against the featherweight champion, the stocks of both fighters heading out of the champ vs. champ fight, and other narratives associated with it. Additionally, topics include Yair Rodriguez's impressive performance against Josh Emmett to capture the interim featherweight title, how he matches up with Volkanovski, if that fight will be next, the best of the rest from UFC 284, this weekend in combat sports with UFC Vegas 69 headlined by Jessica Andrade vs. Erin Blanchfield, BKFC's KnuckleMania event, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the highly anticipated matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Morning Kombat's Luke Thomas. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Luke Thomas: @lthomasnews Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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MA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a very excited. edition of Between the Links and we have ourselves a doozy on the program this week and the timing couldn't be better because we are coming off an entertaining

memorable even in some ways controversial UFC 284 event the last piece is mostly due to the main event the fallout from that fight between Islam Makachev and Alexander Volkanowski one that is at this point

I am just excited to put a bow on today and we probably have the two best people to help with that. So let's introduce them. Let's not waste any time. First, let us welcome back the exhibition king, Mr. No Gray area. He's from No Bet's Bar, Dan they were Gerd. And surely, part of your angry tweets and DMs over the past few days, he is the Woody page of MMAFiting dot com. Mr. Jedmishu. Hey, buddy, how's the week treating you? Dude, it's been so good. Catching a lot of heat. And all I can say is don't boo me. I'm right. I'm right. I I have been right this whole time.

I was right all the time. I'm still right today. And I, like you, am excited to put a bow on this so we can move on to the very exciting. Some people are saying best card of the year, UFC Vegas 69. And folks, this is one of those moments where you need to remember the date and the time and everything else involved with this day. Because making his return to the MMA Fighting YouTube channel and podcast network is a man who has so many awards. these days. He had to build a whole new room for them. He's one of the best in this space with his voice, his breakdowns, his commentary. He is one half of the morning combat crew, and he is not

far removed from doing something that made me insanely jealous. He did a live show in front of a packed house in the UK. Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together for Mr. Luke Thomas. Luke, thank you for doing this, man. How are you? How are you doing? Gentlemen, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Hey, look at my suntan lotion. Or wait, it's this way. There it is. I forgot to put it away. There's my suntanlish. Yeah, that's all right. Well, this should be a lot of fun,

but let's get into the fight that closed the show and has been talked about pretty much nonstop since Saturday. Islam Makachev versus Alexander Volcanovsky. And this fight was compelling. It was intriguing and selfishly, and I've talked about this a lot heading in and coming out of it. This is exactly the fight that I had hoped we were going to get. There were things I was hoping to see from both fighters,

and I feel like we saw them. And while the fight was really fascinating, the aftermath of this all has been a whole different thing altogether. So I guess I want to start there. I want to play the one word, then show your work game to kick things off. Because to give an example, my word describing the aftermath of this fight is naive,

because that is exactly what I am in this space. And this fight showed me that more than ever, because when the fight was over, I thought maybe, just maybe as a community, we would look at this fight as one where both guys fought their asses off, both guys dealt with adversity, one man technically won, one man technically lost,

but nobody really lost in the grand scheme of things. And we got to see the two best fighters in the whole world do the damn thing for 25 minutes. But instead, it has caused a big divide in the community, whether it's because of the judging or the stupid pound for pound discussion, the what's next for both guys, et cetera.

So Jed, let us start with you. If you could describe the fallout of this fight, whether it's a personal thing or something else, what word would you use and why? Lunacy. And honestly, I feel like that's kind of self-explanatory. If you are a rational person who has been engaging with this this week, it has been insane.

And I came into that fight more than probably most people thinking that it would be one-way traffic. I stood on my corner and was like, I respect Alexander Volkinovokinovsky. I think he's the best pound fighter in the world. world, but when Islam gets going, that's a, that is a train downhill. He is not going to be able to stop it. I was dead ass wrong on that. No questions asked all the way wrong. Everyone else and myself were wrong that Volcanovsky would just run him on the feet. He didn't. He lost the fight on the

feet. If that is just a striking match, if we're only counting the striking portions of it, he lost the fight on the feet. The narratives were so flipped, but coming out of that event, no one is really talking about the back half. That has happened more as we've gotten a little more space from it. Cooler heads have prevailed a little more where people can and have been giving Islam the recognition he deserves for that. But for much of this post-UFC 284 aftermath, it has been the narrative of Alexander Volcanovsky, how he exceeded expectations, how he won four rounds, which is freaking insane to argue that.

and the general trend of that largely I think because one he overachieved two he ended well and that always tricks people into thinking that the first four rounds don't matter because he won the fifth and then three people just really like him and I've seen a lot of people come out and be like I love this side of Hulk I love kind of all his the antics during the fight and all that like they really gravitated towards that and it has been this swirling mass of lunacy that has then created this, we got to run it back immediately and Islam robbed him

and all these sorts of really insane takes for a fight that I felt immediately, after rewatching, I still feel Islam won, but the fight was awesome. And it would be okay to just appreciate that was really, really good. It's not the best fight we've ever seen, but the stakes were high, the drama was high,

the action was good, and as technical as it gets. One guy won, one guy lost, and we can revisit this in a year when both guys do the necessary things in their own weight classes. And then that can be, that can hopefully be even bigger and even better. But the overwhelming sentiment for me coming out of this is that like a large portion of the MMMA fan base has gone insane. Sorry, I didn't know when Jed Mishu got so reasonable. When did that, when did that happen?

That's new. He makes a lot of sense here. You can see the gray hairs come in. It's happening. Losing my edge. I got a lead on you on the gray. But yeah, welcome to the club.

I mean, I would actually agree with a lot of that. And I think lunacy is a pretty good word for it. Now, I'm a little bit different in the sense that I actually did think it was going to be very competitive wrestling. I know a lot of folks kind of oversold

what happened against Ortega for Volcanovsky and some other cases. Chad Mendes got him down as well. But Volkinovsky, between fights makes dramatic improvements. And his team, you know, we should say it out loud.

Like those guys out of New Zealand and Australia, Joe Lopez and Eugene Berman, they might be the best game planners in the sport, right? So Volcanovsky, this idea that he was not going to be at least reasonably competitive in the wrestling, I didn't buy. But as Jed said, I thought quite correctly on the feet, that was revelatory what Islam Makachev turned in. And upon subsequent rewatch, I think a scorecard 4-1 for Islam is a little bit more justifiable than I thought in real time, still granting that 3-2 Volkanowski is very much in play and wouldn't have an issue with it. But, I mean, I think to get to the point that Jed is trying to make here, let's crystallize it around a particular moment that I think has been just to his bar, his word, you know, lunacy subsequent to the fight.

People trying to argue that Volcanovsky won the fourth round. I mean, this is, this is the apex of desperation, right? I mean, not even Volcanovsky argues he won it. even he thinks the only scorecard for him is two, three, and five, which I think is, by the way, that he's right, that those are the defensible rounds for him. and then people just trying to memory hole the first 90 seconds of round four where once again we're revisiting this sort of information that came out of this result that came out of 284 where Islam clearly outstruck Alexander Volcanowski on the feet multiple times demonstrably demonstrably rocking his head back and even getting an acknowledgement from Volkanowski.

In fact, this is something we haven't really talked about. If I'm Volkinovsky's coach and certainly I am not, but if I would, were, I'd be like, hey, next time we fight this guy, stop acknowledging every time he hits you. It actually is quite memorable in that sense to watch a guy do that. And then when you go, people like, oh, he didn't do anything from the back. There is a fair argument to be made that eventually that a guy like Makachev with that body triangle without doing a whole lot with it was stalling. But you add in all of the outstriking he did before, then the takedown, which was beautiful,

by the way. And then the back control, even if you wanted to say, well, he shouldn't have had it for that long because he didn't do anything with it. He still had it as a matter of fact. The referee did not separate them. And people are going to, I mean, the ends of the earth to argue this is superior to that. You're out of your fucking mind. You're out of your mind.

You're out of your mind. You simply don't even know what you're looking. This is the only way to get to that is to view Wokanovsky as a God and you have ultimate fealty to him no matter what. It is lunacy. I'm happy to see the fight again at a later date. And I agree with Jed a year from now. But people want to deny us, Volk versus Yair or even Islam versus who the fuck?

Please stop, stop, stop. Just for the people at home who are probably mad because everything Luke said is right, these don't count. Seriously, it's like put your back against a wall and try to break your own hand by punch. I genuinely don't think I could break my own hand doing this. and I'm not a professional fighter, but come on, guys. Like, let's just be reasonable to some extent. The rules of, like, rational thought must exist. Also, if I can just add one second, for all the people in this industry,

and it's not just fans, this media and everyone else too who are like, you know, lions not cheap. It's like, you guys got let around in the aftermath of this by the fervor of the Australian crowd. And I didn't think the commentary was bad, but it certainly painted Volcanowski in a very positive light, which, again, is not altogether unfair. But the fervor that got whipped up about it, like this was some grand robbery or whatever.

And this is winning a round in the fourth when the fucking guy himself is not even saying he won the round. Okay. The defense arrest. I'm so thrilled with how this show is starting. We're like literally one question into it. But the fight has been broken down in every facet of this point. And I'm glad you mentioned the fourth round. We don't need to get into it much more.

but the storylines have just been so interesting with everything from cheating accusations to who won and the stocks of both fighters overall. So, Luke, it's clear that Volkovsky stock rose in this fight. And heading in and some people were like, this doesn't make any sense, but I felt like Volk needed to be absolutely perfect to win this one or as close to it as possible. And he was pretty close. Don't get me wrong. But it wasn't enough to get it done.

And Makachev didn't necessarily have to be perfect to win just based on what he brings to the table. and he certainly wasn't, but he came through. And when he needed a moment to happen in the fight, he made it happen. So a lot of talk about Mokachev's stock coming out of this fight. And I think a lot of people got a little more respect for his striking, giving him a little more credit than he got heading into it. But it was also very, very high heading into this fight. You see a massive favorite heading into this one.

The betting odds, the opinion suggested that. But did his stock stay the same to you? Did it go up? Did it drop a tad with this fight in performance in your eyes? Where are you out at this? Because everyone seems to be in all different. roads here. I mean, if you wanted to ask me whether or not his stock dropped with the public and you're just trying to observe what is happening in front of you, I would argue it probably

did a little bit. It's funny, though, one thing we're not really saying out loud and I think we kind of should is that I noticed a monster turn for him as a popular figure, Makachev, after the Ola Verifite, and certainly there was evidence for it in this fight as well. I don't know if that will show up necessarily in paper view sales, but in terms of just attention, interest on Makachev. It is at an all-time higher pretty close to it. I think we should say that. But in terms of like what you pointed out, the stock and how people view him as a prevailing or at least ostensibly could have a case for number one pound for pound, yeah, I do think he took a hit. But honestly, I just, I don't, I got to tell you, like, I just don't buy into that worldview

really at all. It's not to say that you couldn't argue Volcanovsky stock went up more and maybe even should have gone up more, right? I mean, what he had, he was fighting an uphill battle, right? He was to your point, an underdog, he was the smaller guy moving up a weight class. Like, there's all these things where he should get, even in a losing effort, a lot of credit for the success that he had and the risks that he was accepting. But at the same time, for Mokachev to have his back for as long as he did in the fourth, even if, you know, part of it was, I think, a little bit too long, but to get it in the first, to get the takedowns, I think he got four of nine, obviously out in the control time,

and then to outstrike him on the feet. Dude, I'm sorry, on what planet is that not impressive? I mean, you just have to be willfully cheerleading Volkanowski. By the way, I mean, I think everyone on this panel is a Volkanowski fan and has been an advocate for him for some time. I mean, coming out before that, too, the Mendez fight and everything, but coming out of the Aldo fight, you're like, oh my God, this guy is like massively unheralded. And so I understand that folks are now finally catching up to that reality. And that's okay, welcome to the party. We've been here for a while.

But nevertheless, just looking at what Makachab was up against, people want to take a way. weigh everything from him because he had something of a 10 pound advantage. You're going up against the guy who was the number one pound for pound fighter whose power and strength carries of weight classes. Beating that guy, subduing him at times, outstriking him on the feet is massively impressive, insanely impressive, even if we grant that Volcanovsky's uphill climb of what he was able to turn in also requires us to heap praise upon him. I think people want to deny Makachev based on certain expectations.

that they had for him or certain media narratives or he's not the Habib, I remember, I miss Habib X-O-X-O. And that's, I get that sentiment. We all miss Habib, but this dude is a hammer. He is a defensively sound hammer. He turns out a very well-rounded hammer. And a guy who I think does not get in the respect

he deserves at all coming off that win. Jed, what say you? Islam's stock? Is it up, down, or did it stay the same? And staying the same is still pretty damn good because it was already really high to begin with. it's up and if you don't think it's up then to to borrow luke's phrase you're a freaking don't we we do not have to exist in a world where only one of these can be true both men can rise from this fight and if you're looking at this with any sort of an eye or

understanding about mixed martial arts islamakachev is a better fighter today than he was last week because holy shit that was impressive. Like we get into the numbers, which I don't think really got brought up enough. But if you're just looking at like, this is the fewest strikes Alexander Volkinovsky has landed basically in his entire career. Certainly in any of his five round fights, his success rate is impossibly low compared to what it normally is. And this is in the areas he's supposed to succeed in.

And he isn't. It is so unfath—it's not unfathable, actually. I was going to say it's unfathomable, but I totally understand why it is. But the only reasonable takeaway is, holy shit, Islam Makachev is better than we thought he was going in. Sure, he didn't run right over Alexander Volkinovsky like some, myself included, said, but if you had told me or any of those people beforehand, here's what this fight's going to look like. Islam's going to win the grappling broadly and have some success, but it won't be the kind of he normally has and large swaths of this will play out on the feet, I think most people would

have rationally said, then that's going to be a really good fight for Alexander Volkanovsky. And it was a good fight for him. And he's still freaking lost because Islam is him. He is him. And it's, he won't, at the end of the day, Volcanowski did amazing. He, his stock goes up in my eyes and in the eyes of everybody. But at a very basic, simplistic level, Islam, Machetechum, have won the grappling, not to the extent that he was supposed to, but he won the grappling

exchanges largely, and he won the striking. And as a lot of people have noted coming out, I don't, who is going to offer him a much more difficult test than Alexander Volcanovsky? Guys can offer different kinds of tests, and Benile Darius is a problem. But we're talking about this man's first title defense, choosing. He did not have to say, I want to go. I want to go. to Perth and fight the number one pound for pound fighter. He chose that and that crowd and everything that it brought to the table. All of it. He willingly walked into that lion's den and comes out still the best lightweight in the

world, one of if not the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. And still the dude that I think has the best chance to hold the lightweight belt for an extended period of time. I didn't want to bring this up, but I'm going to do it anyways, because it's been brought up a couple of times and I feel like people are going to ask for it, so I'm just going to do it anyways, because I've heard this a lot on our programming

or the last few days in regards to Volkidovsky. Jed, I'll start with you because I know it's been said. Volcanovsky should still be the number one pound for pound fighter because he lost the contest, but he won the fight. Pride rules, Volk wins, regular standard round by round MMA, Volk lost. Do you buy into that at all? because in the end, I personally gave Mockachev the number one spot in our pound for pound rankings because they fought.

And while it was competitive and while Volcanowski deserves praise galore, Mokachev won. And I just can't ignore that, Jed. I just can't. To be honest, I kind of don't really care at this point. If you have either one of them as your top pound for pound fighter, I'm cool with it. I'm also cool with a couple of other choices that you could throw in there. though these are going to be the very two obvious ones. I understand the argument for leaving Bolkanovski.

I chose not to. I chose to put his amokchev over him for a number of reasons. Largely, you know, they sold us on that being the narrative going in. Whether that's true or not, F it, I'm willing to give it its credence. And again, I think I've long been of the opinion, the lightweight is the best division in the sport. And largely, if you're just the best lightweight, I'm kind of. kind of willing to throw you into the top three of the pound for pound because you're the best guy in the best weight class and like i said i think islam stock only went up from this in the

immediate aftermath i know casey uh swapped his he originally had islam number one he swapped i was a little more in line with casey's line of thinking it's like yeah i totally understand it but i we are splitting hairs and hairs that do not matter in any tangible way these two dudes are it they are the best whatever you want to value however you want to put it a okay with me because i don't i not only don't have like a great argument for who should be i super don't have a great argument for why one of them shouldn't be the best pound for pound fighter these guys are it like these these are what we want at the top of this sport these two dudes yeah it's one a one B for me, but ultimately, when you actually look at it, it's one, it's Mock and Chubb one by a hair,

Volk 2. But Luke, pound for pound talk, I think is just silly, but it's been a big topic. So I'm curious how you would rate these two incredible fighters on this topic. Is Islam 1, Volk 1? Like, what do you ultimately land on? The pound for pound discussion is lame in the sense that everyone just talks past each other and it's very difficult to have. It's very difficult to measure accomplishment across weight class, right?

It just is. It's very difficult. I mean, there's some ways to do it. It's not impossible, but when you get two really excellent guys like you've got here or excellent ladies, whatever, it just becomes very difficult, especially when they're further apart. This is not the case. They actually fought. But you know what I mean?

Like, it's just hard. What is a heavyweight run of five wins versus a lightweight run or five wins? It's just really hard to know, even when all of them are ranked competitors. Although, to Jed's point, I probably might side with the lightweight one. But even then you couldn't guarantee it. It's just, there's no de facto rules. But I do think there's a lot of value in asking the question, who's the best fighter on the planet? I don't think that's idle talk.

That's actually pretty important. Everyone should have an idea of who that is. Who's the best fighter on the planet? And of course, Best requires us to give some definitions. I don't have a problem with the ranking in either way. But I will say this. I think that the case for Volcanovsky as one is doable. Because right, he walked into that fight as number one, fairly, right?

And put it on him. Certainly in the end of that fifth. And again, arguably in some other rounds, he was able to take him. And so it's a strong performance. It's a commendable one. Again, all the mentions, all the things we talked about going uphill. But the reality for me is this, man, like you guys walked in there and something should be on the line. Like this idea, to me, what is happening is a lot of people who are voting for Volcanovsky,

it's not to say there's not a case for it. There is. Or a lot of people at least publicly expressing their sentiment that he's number one. You can do it. You can make that case. It's not difficult. But I feel like what's actually happening is a lot of people are voting him that way or at least expressing sentiment in that way as a protest against a decision they don't like. That's not the same.

That's not the same. You don't actually get to vote him that way because you didn't like the decision. You should vote him that way based on the strengths of the performances by itself. And to me, you can do that and then acknowledge that he came up short. If you come up short and you're a number one versus number two, something should be on the line. there. Something should be up for grabs and the winner should be able to take it. So for me, I think if you wanted to argue Volkinovsky should remain pound for pound number one or more loosely the best fighter in the sport, fine. It's like really no argument. But just make sure you're not

doing it because you just didn't like the decision and you want somewhere to place your frustration. That I cannot abide by. Last thing, I do want to bring this up to this become more prevalent in over the last 12 to 15 hours or so, but pretty much throughout the week, we saw the cheating accusations. Dan Hooker tweets it out. Volcanovsky alluded to it when he spoke to Ariel in that interview that was pre-recorded

before the tweet actually came out. Eugene Barerman talked about it a little bit yesterday in the MA hour and since then the UFC has sent out an email to the fighters and the managers about IV use. And then if you go on Twitter, Jeff DeVitsky put out a threat on Twitter and essentially saying that IV use is okay, as long as it's received in the course of hospital treatments and surgical procedures.

I'm pulling up right. Clinical diagnostic investigations, those received from a licensed medical professional after a licensed physician determines that they are medically justified. They need permission from the athletic commission and they need to disclose the use of the commission after. So apparently because of the response, maybe there's a little smoke to this. But if Machachev checked off all those boxes and maybe he did, don't really know for sure because no one's really saying anything. but if he did, this is for not.

But Islam tweeted earlier today that you must be held accountable for such accusations. But I figure since it's being talked about a lot, I got out a lot this morning on heck of a morning, Luke. Where are we out with this? What did you make of all this, the UFC sending out the email and explaining it?

Like, where are we out of this? Is this a story or what do you think? It's a story, but not the story that has been presented the way it's been presented. I just want to be very clear about something. Like, what is the, I have just, jury duty coming up. Where's my jury summons? I actually have a jury summons here. Look at this. I got an effing jury summons from the city of Washington, D.C. This will be like my fifth time doing it.

I get to jury duty all the time. What is the actual evidence submitted to the public record that Makachev broke any rule? And the answer is zero. Nothing doesn't exist. Not there. So when folks are like, what do you make of X's accusations or wise thoughts, I don't make anything. I don't make anything of it. I will make something of it only when, if and only if, evidence that corroborates these claims is introduced, such that it is as if it doesn't exist to me. So, and people are making these Brock, well, they wouldn't say it if there wasn't any proof. What is the evidence that you are aware of that any rule was broken by Islam Makachev or any other fighter at UFC 284? They don't have any. It doesn't exist. None. Zero. A judge, I don't know, Jed is a lawyer. He might tell me this

is wrong, but I feel like a judge would look at this and just toss this shit out, being like, well, there's nothing here. You don't have anything. You just have accusations. That's number one. Due process matters. Due process gets in the way of fun media narratives. I get that.

Due process gets in the way of fire and brimstone, and we all love that, but due process is important. To my knowledge, there is no evidence. The funny part that I do think is the real story here is nobody knows the fucking rules. I mean, nobody. Jeff Novitsky. Jeff Novitsky gets on Twitter yesterday. I'm not saying he's lying.

He's probably telling the truth that in 2019, they just changed all these fucking rules, by the way. The fighters don't even know that they changed the rules. Oh, we told the fighters. Yeah, well, they don't know. So fuck all that. It doesn't matter what you told them. They don't know.

You changed him in 2019. Who said that? Did the media report on that in 2020? I don't recall anyone alerting the media that any of the shit had actually happened, which, by the way, would help fighters know that these rules were changed. And also, by the way, The rules are like, like, okay, you definitely can't use an IV. Ah, bullshit, you can't.

Just get a doctor to say you can't. What, the commission's going to say no when a doctor says, get the fuck out of here with this. All you need is a personal doctor to be like, yeah, this motherfucker's dehydrated. Give him an IV. And it's done. We got all this lecturing about how you saw it were the adults in the room and we're going to stop these bad practices. Nobody knows the rules. They change you whenever they want.

They don't tell the fucking media. nothing, zero, anything. So my response to this is like L-O-L, you know, like Makachiev, Makachev, I guess, knew the rules and no one else did. To me, I'm like, where's the fucking problem here?

There isn't one. Move on. Jed, is this, is this the 2020 version of trying to get a medicinal marijuana card in California in like 2005 where you just create something and a doctor will just write something up so you can go get it? Like, we're, like,

it just seems very strange. And Luke's, Luke's explanation was pretty hilarious, but I mean, is this story? I mean, this has been a big topic today for some reason. It's a story because people don't know any better. To use your analogy, I don't think your analogy is quite correct in that the people who were making things up to get medical marijuana cards were usually were making things up because they wouldn't smoke pot. By definition, every fighter will be dying.

traded post wins. Like this is actually, like every fighter should just do this. Luke's 100% right. You know my stance on USADA. I have long thought it was an incredibly invasive waste of money and incredibly stupid. And this just feels like in iteration on that. It's a story because people want it to be one. And to Luke's earlier point, it feels very much like they want it to

be a story in the same way Luke was saying people voting Alexander Volkanowski, number one, because they didn't like the decision. It feels like that because there is no evidence. And you freaking Eugene Berman was on the MMA hour yesterday. And his answer is a very incredibly thoughtful dude, like does not speak with just firing off at the hip. It was like, so we don't have evidence. dysfunctionally what he says, like, we have reliable to a point that an IV was used, and that's it.

And so, like, that's not evidence, by the way, that he says it, that they believe that it is true. And then he even acknowledges that they don't know if Islam used it or if it was Zubaira. They don't know how much was used. They don't know shit. Nobody knows shit because there is nothing to know. And I want to be extremely clear. I wouldn't give a flying fuck if we had a video of him mainlining three gallons of water. It would not matter to me at all.

If you are a hard-lined rule person and you, that video came out, I would acknowledge and accept stripping Islam of the belt for cheating in the same way. And I was like, we probably should strip Charles Olivera of his lightweight tie. because he didn't make weight, and it is a contractual and a rule following portion of this. But I didn't come out being like, well, Justin Gachie got screwed because Olivera weighed a half pound over. And so we got to run that one back. Like, no, because it's not how it works. They fought. It's not going to make a tangible difference to the outcome.

And in the same way, because I've had this argument too, yeah, well, they usually weigh to 156 pounds. So that extra pound, it's not the same thing at all. It's entirely the same thing. They had 36 hours less, or whatever it is, not 36, 12 hours less because they fought in Australia. And so they didn't get the normal refill time. None of this means shit. Nobody should care. And you know the reason that people do is because they don't want Islamakchev to have won that fight.

And it really is as simple as that. And so it, look, if something comes out and he, like I said, took three gallons of water, we can strip them with the belt. That's fine. But who gives this shit, guys, the fight's over, the outcome was just, we can move on to new business and appreciate that as so far the best fight of 2023. And maybe by the end of the year, it will still be the best fight of 2023. There you go. I asked about it. Now we can move on. And we will move on from this conversation to talk about something that just isn't getting enough love. And we're going to do that in round two, but the point for round one

goes to. Luke Thomas. I mean, just a... What, I mean, it was like a Mockachev-esque perfectly timed takedown to take down on the final leg of it. That takedown was sick.

Yeah, it was good. That takedown was good. That takedown was nasty. It really was. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get

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Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. I want to dedicate a round to the performance of Yaya Rodriguez on Saturday. against Josh Emmett because I don't think, yeah, your winning came as much of a surprise. I don't think him finishing Josh Emmett came as much of a surprise, but the way that he did it. And yeah, there were moments in that fight

that got a wee bit hairy, but for the most part, Yair looked incredible. It seems like he's gotten over that hump, and it appears like he has leveled up. So Luke, I will start with you. I spoke with John Anick yesterday, and he said something to the effect of, if you're a UFC fan and you've never seen a UFC event live,

save your money. And as soon as Ja'Ir Rodriguez comes to a, is as part of a fight card in any city remotely close to you, drop the hammer on that buy tickets button because he is on another one right now. Do you agree with that after what we saw from Yayao Rodriguez on Saturday night? Yeah, I certainly do. I did a breakdown yesterday.

I mean, partly everyone's just kind of take the main event to death. And so I wanted a bit of a fresh look. And I just felt like Yei Rodriguez really came into his own. That's arguably, I mean, you know, he beat Brian Ortega quicker and he's had some more, you know, dominant flash. Like the win over Andre Feeley is more dominant. But in terms of like a quality opponent and the stakes and everything, that honestly might be his best performance. And the reason why I say that is because if you want to go look at the, I did an examination of the fight for my personal YouTube channel. And one of the things I took from it because I went back and I watched the Holloway fight.

I went back and I watched the Stevens fight. I went back and I watched, I think some of the other ones that he had recently. And what I noticed from this fight, and it could have been Emmett specific, but certainly it's something he could use more broadly, especially in the bigger cage. You couldn't use it against Holloway in the small apex cage, is that his striking system is now jelling. Right?

Everything is coming together. And one of the big keys to his victory here was movement. He had lateral movement, he had blitzing, which he always had blitzing, but he was able to incorporate it with a lot more movement through stance switch, pulling Emmett into problems, obviously getting him to bite on feints and bounce into traps he was setting and he did it over and over and over again.

And then he just builds on top of it, obviously with these permutations of kicking into punching and then switching everything up and then using faints to set up the kick and they kick the punch. And then this is constant chain of connectivity and all of it is working. All of it is firing.

And really to beat a guy like Emmett, the way he did was magic. It was awesome. awesome. And I just felt like it was efficient. He has weapons everywhere. There's not there's some position certainly where he's stronger. There's certainly context where he's stronger. But even in weaker context, he's got offense, even off of his back, for example, from guard. He's got submissions and ground upon where he can extend like an accordion and then whip back with his elbow at the top of someone's head. He is constantly disruptive. He is constantly attacking and devastating at the same time,

right, not just a guy who's flashy and fun and acrobatic, but mean and devastating the whole way through. He's got all of that and then some. And I want to make one more point too. And this is why I think folks need to have a little bit more respect about his chances against Volkanowski. Not anyone up against Volkanowski's got a long night, right? To beat that guy, it's difficult,

especially if you're a 1.45er, super difficult. And if you wanted to favor Volcanowski, I certainly wouldn't talk you out of it. But one thing I want to pay attention to was Josh Emmett is arguably one of the hardest hitters, pure power, right, in featherweight history. There are two times and one in particular, he lands flush on Yaya Rodriguez. I mean, whips his head like the exorcist and then some. And Yair just took it.

He just took it. Why do I bring this up? He doesn't make many mistakes. But even when he does, he's got a certain level of durability to complement this incredibly violent style where everything is coming together. And now you're seeing the brain power adding movement, all the stance, which he was doing already. Now he's got this bigger dance he's doing in front of everyone else. And it is awesome.

I love his chances, to be honest with you, against any 101.145. And I can't wait to see what happens against Volcanowski. No fight. No Islam rematch should get in front of that one. That one is an all-action affair. Jed, not enough has been said about this performance from Yair, Rodriguez because it's just been buried with all the main event stuff. But how impressed were you with this performance a few days later?

And Luke talked about how you gauge his chances against Volcanovsky. I would say they're much better than I thought Saturday morning after watching how Yairi performed against Josh Emmett. So the performance and a future match with Volkanowski, how much more interesting is that fight now to you? They are both awesome. His performance was exceptional. Luke stole the point that I wanted to lead with.

I thought he was going to forget it. Yair's durability will make that matchup incredibly fun for me because Josh Emmett can hurt people. If Josh Emmett's doing this to you, I might actually give that a little more credence than Volks just because that dude swings, hammers, and he landed clean and didn't really get much out of it, except for kicked in the guts over and over again.

And that's the other part of it that really gets me excited for this because Yair is dangerous at all points like Luke said. He is mean with those kicks. Those body kicks were just brutal. You had Josh Himmit. It took him all of six minutes to get Josh Emmett looking like he didn't really want to be involved in what was going on at that point in time. And Josh Schmidt is a.

tough mother effort. And what happened in the main event at 284? Islamakov won the striking in a lot of ways. One of his best weapons was landing knees when Volcanovsky would come inside, those clinched knees from the tie, and he was whipping body kicks in. And Volk didn't have a ton of great answers for that side of switching stances and adjusting. And I, you know, I know that there's a weight class difference.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Yaira Rodriguez is a more dangerous kicker than Islam Makachev. I could not be more excited for that fight. And I'll be frank, that's part of what has me so confused by the like immediate reaction to the main event and demanding a rematch. Like I would watch that fight. If that fight happens down the line, it will be great. But like I, I left 284 thinking, I cannot wait to watch Jaya Rodriguez by Alexander

Volcanowski because frankly, I think he has a good chance to win this. the fight. I still might ultimately have to default to Volcanovsky because we've seen so limited points where he has been in danger. He has struggled. The ways he struggled against Islam largely won't be the same in that fight. But dude, that's number one with the bullet. That's one of my most anticipated fights in the entire sport at this point. I don't know how you don't go to that next. Also, can I add more point? Even though Volk doesn't want it. Yeah. One more point to think about. Let's say, let's say that you, the UFC rankings kept Volk at number one for pound for pound, if I believe. But let's, let's posit a scenario where they actually switched, right? Let's say he was two and Islam was one. It is conceivable to me that based on who those two fight next, that if both of them win, but like if Islam takes on, you know, I don't know, Connor or something, but then Volk beats Yair. Dude, beating Yair is hard. and he's going to take a pound of flesh on the way with it.

If you beat him, I can see a case for Volk to reclaim one in any kind of situation where he was sitting at number two. Obviously, he's still sitting at one. But I'm trying to point out, the significance of a victory there against that quality and opponent is extraordinary. It'd be huge. Either way, both of them would take a jump in there,

or whoever wins would take a jump in the pound for pound, including two to one if it was Volk. I completely agree. You'll remember, Mike, that all I wanted, I didn't want this fight. I'd never wanted the 284. All I wanted was to see Volcanovsky defend his belt against dudes that weren't named Max Holloway because anything could happen.

And featherweight is filled with freaking monsters as well that nobody's giving credit for. And like, I felt vindicated on Saturday watch. I was like, yeah, I was right. That fight would have been sick if I heard folk. Fight would have been awesome. If Arnold Allen goes out here and blows the doors off Max, which I kind of think is going to happen, Arnold versus Volk is magic and insane.

Fight these fights first. Clean out the division actually instead of just running the score up on Max, and then we can redo this lightweight fight. So let's go to this real quick because these always create nice little conversation pieces because obviously Volcanovsky losing a Machachev, competitive or not, You're both right. I feel like we have a clear path for Volk versus Yair. Mokachev's a little different because Darius is there. It looks like he's agreed to fight Charles Olivaire in May, but contracts haven't been signed.

But could they pull Darius from that one? Just give him the title shot with Islam? Do they go ahead with that fight? And if Darius wins, it's just undeniable. Or let's just say, Volk and Mokachev are ready. Come June, July. Yair is not ready. Darius wins against Oliver, but it's a war.

he's going to be out for a minute. There is a real world, especially in this current UFC matchmaking structure where they would try to book a rematch. So, Jed, I want to start with you. There's what should happen, which is what both of you guys laid out. Just fight the dudes in your division.

Let's build this thing up. And then there's what will happen. Are both answers the same in your mind? I think so. I just, it's a really tough sell, unless it is a very narrow window for you to run that. matchback. And this is maybe the argument I've been having the most from the, from the donks in my

DMs of you gotta run it back. That fight was very close. Like yeah, close fights happen all the time. The fight wasn't controversial. On rewatch, I actually think that fight was less close than I thought. Not that it wasn't competitive, but like I on the night scored it 4-1 Makachev, but with the caveat being I was live blogging. I totally could have seen it being 3-2 Volk. And I still, a lot of that's true. I feel really good about a 4-1 Mokachev, certainly a 3-2 Mokachev scorecard. And this isn't heavyweight. This isn't women's featherweight where there's nothing else going on. And we just don't have shit else to do.

So sure, run it back, I guess. Like, lightweight is the best division in the sport. Throw a rock. And one of those dudes should be fighting for the belt. Like anybody in the top 25 of that weight class would be cool. And certainly several dudes in the top. Top 15 deserve their trance, none more so than Benny Daryush. You've got Fiziv is about to take on Justin Gachey.

If Fiziv comes out of here and tunes up Justin Gachie, newsflash, he also deserves a lightweight title shot. And then Connor McGregor is around because that will forever be something that matters, apparently. You just got to handle the other business first. And I think that that is what's going to happen. Volk may not like it, but he is going to get stuck fighting Yair at some point. Mokachev, it will just depend when he wants to come back. Ramadan's coming up.

If he wants to come back in the early summer, maybe you do can just pull Benny out of that and be like, hey, yeah, pull them out, let's go. If not, Mokachev probably would be okay waiting, frankly, if they're going to do this in May for Olivaire Benny, Benny wins that fight. He is iron number one with the bullet, easy choice. You run that in late summer, early fall.

And there we go. So I think that's what's going to happen. I think we're going to get both men and their, respective divisions defending belts against worthy challengers. Luke is what will happen and what should happen the same because Volk I think is kind of the wild card here because I think he's going to be ready to go as soon as possible and he's going to be just jarring to get back in there. And I don't know like I don't know if Yair is going to be ready in three months, but Volk certainly will be. And Volk seems to have a lot of hype and hubbub

around him right now that I don't know if the UFC is going to be able to ignore in the situation. So I think it's a question to be had. What should happen should happen, but what will happen is it the same? Probably. I'm going to bet against an immediate rematch happening. That's cards on the table. I don't think it'll happen. I don't think it'll happen for a few reasons.

One, I don't think the UFC thinks that they could necessarily make an extraordinary profit from it. Like if they really believe they could do five, six, 700,000 buys on a rematch, they'd probably just pull the trigger and that would be that. But we're not really in that territory. I suspect it's a fraction of that. So that's going to make some of the, that's going to affect some of the decision making here. Probably will be the ultimate arbiter for being honest. And so I don't think it would do poorly. I think it would do well.

I mean, in fact, what's kind of funny is when they do book a rematch, a world tour for media actually does make sense this time, like a lot. It made sense last time, but like you could really make something of it this time, especially have a lot of fun. So, but in terms of its box office returns, it's not really going to force their hand. And the other part, too, does the UFC really want to be in a place where potentially Yeira Rodriguez is having to defend his interim strap while the other guy goes and has another set of rematches against someone else. It's like that seems unlikely to me. And the other part too about this fight that I think folks should just wrap their head around is the first fight between them was great, but not essential. We didn't have to have it, right?

We didn't have to have the featherweight champ fighting the lightweight champ. If you're the featherweight champ, you do have an obligation to defend your title. And if you can't, they'll strip you of it and find someone else who will. Like there is an obligation there. So the question is, what is the necessity in making the rematch? It'd be a fun fight, sure. It could settle some disputes, sure. But these are not overarching reasons to do it, at least not immediately.

Again, a year from now, whatever, like a little bit down the line, I actually feel like that makes a lot of sense. But this immediate sense of they're not being a dramatic box office return, they're not going to go back to Perth for it. They probably would go somewhere stateside for that one. And then on top of that, right, this notion that like you've got all of these exciting contenders, not merely with an interim champ. I mean, dude, like, what happens if they fight and then Makachev gets injured after the second fight? They're going to have to create another

interim title at Lightway. Who the hell wants any of this? This is a waste of time right now. Great fight. Hope we see it. But I don't think there's a good case to do it immediately. And I think that the UFC will examine the evidence from what the market will actually bear for this right now versus some other alternatives and some schedule needs. And they're going to go ahead and say, let's get Volkan and Yahir together and we'll figure out 155 and we get some of the results in. The only chance I think, yeah, go ahead. I'll say to go off that very quick. Like I could see it immediately happening if they weren't in Perth just now.

If Perth was on the cards for three months from now, 287 or whatever, I could then understand that. Like I still wouldn't agree that it should happen, but I could see that being like, hey, Volk came over here. they fought it's competitive they want to get right back after it we need we need a headliner for perth here just lock it in let's go that would make sense they just did it in perth they can't go back to australia and like that was a big part of why that event felt fun and exciting and interesting like was it being volk going at home so i just you can't do it and if vogue really wants to pursue this belt, drop the 145, man. Like, that's it. Then that's, I will at least be more okay with it. He's like, yeah, I'm just going to be a lightweight now. Fight any of the other

dudes at lightweight. Fight Benny Darius. Go fight him. They haven't, the ink is not dry on Charles Oliver. You want to get back quick? Fight Bini Dariusia may for the number one contender spot. You win that fight. Can't argue against it. Unimpeachable at that point that the man can get a, can get a title shot. But if it's just, I'm the featherweight champ and I lost competitively and I'm not okay with losing. I want to have won so I get another crack at it. Missed me with that shit. Yeah. I think the only chance it happens is if the summer rolls around or like we're before the summer and they needed a main event for international fight week and like John Jones can't fight and none of the bigger names can fight. I think that's the only chance

this fight happens again. Like next. Otherwise and like yair's not ready or something like that. Other than that, I just don't see any purpose at all to do an immediate rematch at this point. A year from now, they both rattle off two, three more defenses. The fight's so much bigger and so much more fascinating, especially with where Mokachev will end up being in his career. He might just be like, eh, I'm going to fall Habib and just go out on top. But before I go, there's that one competitive fight

that I just need to prove my doubters wrong, that it shouldn't have been competitive in the first place. So I love it. We'll see what happens. Hopefully we get Volgaier, Mokachev versus TBD, and let's move these divisions forward. But the point for round two goes to, to Jed Bishu. It's one to one.

Oh. Closing the book. Snap. Luke being the first time here, if he ever comes back, he'll realize that the points I give actually don't matter at all. And you'll find out in a moment. But let's close the book on UFC 284 real quick for the time being. This is the best of the restaurant. And Jed, I'll start with you here.

Seems like Jack Della Madelena is the most obvious answer for fighters outside of the two title fights that had themselves a big old stock boost, and he deserves his praise for that performance, and we will talk about him in a minute. But let's take a little deeper. Which fighter on the card had the biggest impression on you outside of the top four guys? Madelena, Yair, and the two main eventors. You're muted. Sorry, that's loud in my house, so I mute when I'm not on mic.

There are only two answers I will accept for this. The first is Loma Lupani, who is just, I know no one's going to really care about this. But out of nowhere, she just turned into this like D1 suplexing wrestler and grappling artist, which was incredibly cool. But the true answer, the only right answer. Mike, Cletson Rodriguez knocked somebody out with his ass. When do we ever see the ass knockout? Not since the days of Mark Hunt and the atomic butt drop has an ass been weaponized as effectively as Cletson Rodriguez used. scoring a knockout.

The fact that that man did not get a bonus, God love JDM, Jackie Three Dames. Great performance, awesome. He was like the fifth most deserving post-fight bonus winner of the night and certainly shouldn't have gotten it over the ass knockout. I don't know what we're doing sometimes when an ass KO can't get the love that it deserves.

But I'm here to tell you guys, if you didn't watch it for whatever reason, go watch it. I think we have the highlight clip up on MMAFinding.com, great website. Clitson Rodriguez, just assing Shannon Ross right on out of the cage. There it is. First sound effect. Luke, what do you think? Is it one of those two? Or are you thinking a little outside of that? Well, I've definitely dated some women that could KO you with their ass. But that aside, I actually disagree a little bit. The ASCAO was nice. The ASCAO was nice.

But, you know, I'm a little bit like scarred from, well, not scar is not the right word. But I just feel so bad for Mark Sanchez after the butt fumble. I can't get into too much sports. ass play if such a thing exists. So I'll go to the front of the bus. How about Joshua Kulabau becoming a eunuch in real time when they castrated him? Melsik Bagdasarian does it, kicks him in the balls in like the hardest way imaginable and still comes back to win the fight. Magdasarian was up in his grill at the way ins, kind of shoving him, doing all this kind of

shit, goes in there, suffers through, you know, 19th century castration methods by getting kicked there, rallies back and then jumps on his back and then snatches one of the best rear naked chokes in terms of like presence of mind and how quickly he got it on you're ever going to see. As a, my mom was Armenian. So as a half Armenian, I hate to pick against Armenians. But the record is what the record is. My man took a tremendous shot to the jewels and still came back to get a stoppage win in his hometown or home country anyway.

Great job by Joshua Kulow. Yeah, both great picks. And as far as JDM goes, Luke, look, he, look, he, look great. Goes out there. He subs Randy Brown in the first. I know bettors around the world were not thrilled with how JDM won, but they wanted the KO, gets the sub.

Sealing seems very high, but how high is it? Like, what questions do you still have about him? And what would you like to see next for him in an attempt to answer some of those questions? Got to be someone inside the top 11 to 15. There's some great names at Welterweight. There's some really great names at Walterweight down

there. Honestly, a Neil Magny fight might be kind of interesting. The reality is, he's what like four UFC fights five if you count contender series and all the ones in the UFC I think not the contender series or I have to go back and double check but all the ones in the UFC have been like first round stopages basically and that's great it's very impressive but it just doesn't

tell you what happens when shit goes south and you might be like oh well it doesn't go south because he's so good which is true but he's so good relative to that opposition raise a level of opposition it just becomes a much bigger fact-finding mission he looked good against Ramazanamiv but what does somebody do who's got better wrestling

than him and he's really sticking it to him through two and a half, maybe even three rounds. What happens if he gets hurt? How well does he rally? Does he have particularly, does he have any, like, you know, Cowboy was very vulnerable to the body. Does he have any kind of issues like that? We just haven't the real way to know about someone.

And this is why Fader was kind of important in a certain way. Fadour had these, like, grand moments of brilliance. I'm not comparing Jack Dail mentally into Fader, but I'm just saying, but he also had times for like Fugita nearly beat him or guys would jump him on his head. He would just find a way to rally. And so you got a better sense of like what happens at that stage in his career when things go poorly.

We simply don't have that yet. We'll get a better answer of it as he moves up the weight or the rankings. So that is a very necessary move for him. Jed? What say you? I mean, it depends what we want to do with Jackie Three Names, right? Like, because the part of me, and I think the thing that fans have gravitated towards the most, and what I wouldn't be shocked if happens, if we just run out the Sente-Luke, because how can you argue with

something as beautifully violent as that fight would be, you can't. It's an unimpeachably great thing. If we're trying to treat him like a guy we would like to see develop, and let's test different aspects of his game, I think Neil Magni actually is like the correct opponent, because Neil is super durable, good, well-rounded, good in all phases, like can present stuff to J-DM that we just haven't seen him deal with, which is really good for knowing, okay, is he a top five guys is this a future title challenger where exactly in the realm of prospects is he but come on man like am i ever going to say we should pick a neil magni fight because nobody has ever been like

i would like to watch neil magnify fist fight sometimes it works out well but he's not the first guy and welterweight has so many dudes that you can just mash jdm together like action figures with and it would rule so vicente luke come on down baby like let's just get in the middle and chuck them and see who falls down my guess is it'll be luca because it's getting a little long in the tooth but this is just awesome i'm excited for what is coming at welterweight we've got some we got some old blood in there that's going to slowly get weeded out over the next few years but guys like jdm man they are going to be they're going to make this division the same thing it's been forever which is awesome well that is ufc 284 everybody

Let us move on to the final round of regulation. The point for round three goes to, I'm going to give it to Luke. He, uh, he got me, he nudged me slightly more in the Neil Magny thing. I, I wasn't sold on that at all, but you kind of, you kind of, I didn't realize, I didn't realize Jed was a hater on Neil Magne. Wow, that's a new one. I like Neil Magny.

I'm not a hater on, I'm not a hater on Neil Magny. I recognize a very good fighter, but where does Neil Magny rank in the list of welterweights you are like, itching to see compete. It can't be high. I'll say this. I'll say this as like, I mean, I was sized when they put them up against Shopcott,

Rachmanov, you know, like to see what Rachmanov. Yeah, because it's shopcott. Yes, I accept. I would also have been interested in Magny versus Hamzot

or these other guys who are insanely cool. But if the choice is, I can watch Vicente, Lucke and JDM or Magny and JDM, one of those is unimpeachably more exciting than the other.

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let's talk about this weekend in MMA and Combat Sports. I'm not watching that shit. I'm not watching that shit. I don't care if it's my job. Oh, man. So I'll present it like this, Luke, because there's two events

that MMA fans are kind of looking at this weekend. We have the UFC event. and then tomorrow night, BKFC has knuckle mania with guys like Diego Sanchez and John Dotson and his brother's fighting on the card and Greg Hardy's on the card. And if there's one thing BKFC does is they, that's interesting to watch. But Luke, if you could only watch one of these events this weekend and you couldn't even get results on the internet of the other, which one are you watching?

The UFC card or the BKFC card? Oh, BKFC card. Yeah, I mean, I'm not even going to sit here and pretend. You know, listen, like, I love MMA. MMA is my favorite sport, right? So it's not just to very clearly declare what I like and what I don't like. It's my favorite sport. But that doesn't mean I like every version of it.

That doesn't mean I like it no matter what. I would not say that. I think, I think, fans, they're used to, maybe it still exists. There definitely used to be a thing when MMA was like post-ultimate fighter was kind of expanding, you know, week over, week, month, over a month, year. where everyone was like, yo, I watch everything

and I'm like, that makes you undecurning. Now, there's a, there's a, there's a exception to that rule, which is the Grubaka hitman, Caposa on Twitter.

He gets an exception because he actually does have a nose for what's good and he understands like what's bad and what's not. But this idea that like, I'm just going to consume more at the buffet of MMMA content

and aren't I a better fan? No, you're just a fan with shitty taste and fights. Like, that doesn't make you better. No. So your main event is phenomenal, right? I mean, how many good things can you say about just Gondraj versus Aaron Blanchfield?

I know it's short notice and And Androge is kind of all over the place in terms of weight classes, but just as a fight, like, holy shit, that fight is great. And I don't have anything negative to say too much about like the other pieces on there, but they don't do much for me. It's it's the worst card arguably in UFC history, probably in UFC history, even when you factor in like, you know, 1994 era cards and shit. like that. It's just not great entertainment and it's not it's not super high level MMA really at all. Now you might be like well what is BKFC. Dude Dave Feldman's an interesting guy who runs BKFC. I mean in the end BKBK bernacle kind of is what it is but John Dotson actually looked pretty good. I don't love Diego Sanchez fighting Austin Trout even though Austin Trout's kind of a you know post prime stage of his career. That one should still not go

well for Diego. I don't know how much I love that but but the guy knows how to put together Yes, a carnival. But, you know, he also has, like, BKFC has been somewhat enduring in ways that I think is surprising. And I've had some decent highlights and some good fighters along the way. Like the fact that Luis Palomino, for example, could never make it to the UFC, but has had something of a late career resurgence through BKFC. I actually think it's pretty great. I love that story for Luis Palomino.

So, yeah, this is not a difficult level of arbitration we have to go through. The BKFC card is vastly more entertaining. I'll be spending my time such as I have to watching that. Chad, are you on Team BKFC here? No, for a couple of reasons. You fucking liar. You liar. I'm absolutely not.

And there's some very good reasons here. I will also stick to your earlier point of, yeah, it's fine when Caposso does this shit because he's the best at it. But if you're like the 50th best yo-yoer, you're just a freaking weirdo. You got to be number one or not at all. And so I'm with you on that. The problem is threefold. One, the UFC has one fewer fight. That matters substantially to me when you're looking at the quality of some of these bouts.

11 fights versus 12, give me the UFC. Two, you're saying I don't get to get the results at all. I would like to know the result of this weekend's main event. I have a good feeling on how it's going to go, but I really, that fight I very much want to see. Kind of don't give a single solitary shit about the other 10 on the card, but the main event is still very good, albeit short notice, et cetera. And three, and the most important one, and one that I think we can all agree on, one of the best things that's happened in recent MMA history is the UFC finally got rid of Greg Hardy.

It took him way longer than it should have, but he no longer has to play a role in my life in any way. And I feel enriched and better about myself by not being like, I have to watch Greg Hardy fight people. and if I chose to watch BKFC, I would be choosing to watch Greg Hardy fight people. So for that reason, and because I don't want to see bad things happen, Diego Sanchez,

the BKFC thing, undeniably, probably will be more entertaining. If you're just a dude, want to watch some fights, probably go that one. But it is a lot higher percentage to make me sad than the UFC one, which will largely just make me bored. And I'll take bored over sad any day of the week.

I prefer I vastly prefer sad I have for 43 years it's a better way to go I think that says something about you Luke I'll be honest might be why you have more gray hairs than I do the 12 BKFC fights

will be over like 90 minutes which is another good perk of watching BKFC cards they just go one after the other after the other so it's not even like they do have good pacing 10th tremendous base last thing the main event is obviously great Jed Tylos Santos versus Orange Blan

Don't ask me to low-key bangor this fucking call. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I would never do that. Stay tuned for the preview show. We'll get some answers. But it's just Gondroge versus Aaron Blanchfield now. It's a different fight altogether. I guess are you more or less intrigued by this fight compared to the Santos one?

I felt like the Santos one, we reacted very positively in the Adroge one. There's still positive reactions, but it was kind of like, ooh, this is different. What's at stake here for these two ladies as well? I'd say that I'm less intrigued, but I'm more excited, if that makes sense. I really didn't feel like I had a great bead on what was going to happen in Blancheville-Santos. I think I was going to take Blanchefield because they've just been super high on her, but Santos so vastly overperformed in her most recent fight that raises questions about how good she is, etc. So I was more intrigued by that.

I feel pretty good about Jessica and Drudge's chances to win this fight based on what we've seen thus far. but one, going back to my previous point, if the choices between watching Tyler Santos fight and Jessica and Drogge fight, I know which corner I'm a stand on in that particular debate. And two, this has a higher upside for me, not just in entertainment, but in what comes next. Because if Varon Blancho beats Tyler Santos, she probably is still sort of next in line after Grasso

to get the next title shot at Valentina Shibchenko. And if she really runs over, then maybe I can have some level of interest or intrigue in that fight, right? Like I can talk myself into that being competitive and fun. But it's pretty narrow that that happens, where I can come out of that fight thinking, Aaron Blanchfield is really going to cause problems for Valentina Shepchenko. Cannot wait to see it.

I would mostly just be like, oh, she's going to get rushed a little, but let's see if maybe something cool can really happen. Different story if she beats Jessica and Drudge. By hook or by crook, frankly. I don't really give a shit how she gets it done this weekend. Jessica Androge is her. If JDM is him, Jessica and Draj is her. And so any way you beat her is impressive.

And if Blanchfield, who's 24, comes out and can beat this woman who has been unbeatable by everybody that's not a UFC champion functionally, then, who, buddy, sign me up like, pull Grasso. I don't give a shit about watching Grosso fight Chavchenko. If Blanchfield wins this one, just put Blanchfield in that and let's get cooking because we've got ourselves something really spicy. So I'm less intrigued because I think I know the outcome more or the more likely outcome. But I'm far more excited and there is a world where this is way, way cooler than the Santos fight. Luke, what do you think?

Pop quiz, Mike Heck. How many takedowns did Valentina Schifchenko get on Jessica Androge when they fought in 2021? Do you remember? It was a couple, two or three. Yeah, try seven. Try seven. Five for five in round one, two for two in round two. She got them all.

She went seven for seven for takedowns for Jessica Androche. Now, obviously, Aaron Blanchfield is not Valentina Schofchenko. This is not 2021, not the same Jessica Androge. Lots of factors that are different. But something that really stood out to me, not just the number of takedowns that she got. She also got them all the body lock. She got all body lock takedowns. Why is that important?

Well, one, because you can use it when Androge puns. You can get underneath and you can grab. But more to the point, she didn't attack the legs. You tacked the legs with someone who's got hammer fists. Like Andrade, she might take a hit. She never had to take a hit. She was able to get the takedowns, you know, by through contact, by, you know, slipping a punch or whatever, getting underneath it, going to the body, like and getting on top.

And she worked Jessica Androge over. Now, I don't know if Aaron Blanchfield can do it, but let's just sort of stipulate that she can. That she'll do something pretty similar. Folks, your number one contender has arrived. Your Valentina Shevchenko dethroner is looking at you right in the face. at that point. And I don't know if she can, right? This is so sudden, so soon, but we sat down with her in morning combat for the RSD, the Room Service Diaries interview series that we do. And she was just very matter of fact. She's like, it doesn't really matter. She broke the Talasanto's

news on that interview, but she was like, it doesn't really matter who I fight. I already am quite certain I'm better than all of them. Now, we hear that out of, you know, a lot of young bucks who come into the UFC. We will see how true that is. But given that there's a viable path for a late notice Jessica Androge against a wrestling-centric, well-trained, obviously very gifted athlete in Aaron Blanchfield. To me, this is not just the best fight of the weekend by obviously a country mile, but massively, massively disruptive to that 125 division given the potential outcome of it. And I cannot wait to see it. I love this fight, actually, for Aaron Blanchfield. And I don't know, listen, Androge is a terrifying thing.

force but if anyone's got maybe just the right ability to thread that needle it could be here in blanchfield cannot wait to see this one and yet you'd rather watch lorenzo hunt and mike richmond do bare-knuckle fighting look hey how about you mean mike the marine richmond you bet your ass sepherfye you civilian pig how about that how about that there's the horn there's the horn i forgot that chertigo took her down seven times i suck at trivia she just she big sistered the shit out of her It was last. I didn't think it was seven. I thought it was like two or three

and she just beat the shit out of her with like, five for five in the first round. Five for five. That's nuts. Also, given that, the fact that Andraj still has like a 70%

take down defense rate is pretty incredible. She gave up 100% of takedowns to Shepchenko. That's insane. All right. Well, the point for round four goes to, it goes to Jedmishu. It's two to two.

Big shocker. Who knew? What a surprising turn of events for the first time in BTL history, we go to the knockout round. Literally not true. We've done it 100% of the time until, unless Jed hosts,

unless Jed hosts the show. But that means one question for each gentleman, they'll each have 60 seconds to answer. Then we'll go to the Peeps, and the Peeps will vote and decide on who gets the win. So Jed, prerogative, my friend. What are we doing? Oh, I'll go second.

All right, so we will start with you, Luke. Neither of these fellows know what this question is. So we are in the second month of 2023. There's a lot of fun fights on the books. There's a lot of interesting storylines in play. But let's try to gauge some fascination. And let's go against the obvious here. So we're taking like the big stars out of the equation right now.

We're probably looking more like an Alex Pereira, circa 2020 role here. Who is your fighter to watch in 2023? Can be in the UFC, Bellator, PFL, wherever. Which fighter do you think could make a big leap, that has a lot of promise, has shown a lot of promise heading into this year, however you wanted to find it, which fighter are you most interested to see in regards to a potential leap up the rankings,

maybe into title contention that isn't there already? One minute on this. Hold on. Hold on. Let me clarify. Let me clarify. So this is my first time playing this. So it has to be someone who doesn't hold a belt.

You know what? Do whatever you want. Do whatever you want. Because I've got one that might fit the best. How about that? Okay, I think I know where you're going and I will accept this answer. One minute on the clock, go. I doubt you know where I'm going, but if this doesn't work, you can fail me for it.

I'm going to go Usman Nurigamadov. I have been extremely impressed by him. And upcoming this year in 2023 is going to be the start of the Bellator lightweight Grand Prix. And we don't have a full sense of all the matchups and all the permutations. But the idea that he can walk through this and he potentially fight God knows who, AJ McKee will have to see, is to me extremely intriguing. A lot of folks have not paid attention to how good Usband and Mugamegov is,

in part he had a bit of a rougher fight than I think folks imagined against Petriek people, although he certainly blinked him in that capacity as well. But we're talking about a guy who has phenomenal wrestling, beat Chris Gonzalez, who just beat Max Rochukov like it was nothing.

Obviously on the feet, he is just lights out. He could be a little bit conservative, but this is the point. Through that Grand Prix, I think he's going to mature, get more experience against high-level guys and really come into his own. He's going to end 2023 as a potential fighter of the year

and not on the pound for pound, but one of the very best 155ers in the world independent of organization. I can't fail you because I knew where you were going at that. So I like that answer. Yeah, Usman and Marga made up is a great pick. So we go to you, Jed. I'm sure Usman would have been one of the guys that would be on your list. But now the door is wide open for you to take anybody else.

So fucking mad. I figure. One minute on the clock. You can't pick Usman or Magamatov unless you have a more compelling answer to it. Go. Well, I wanted to pick Usman because we did this sort of thing roundtable, and I picked us for my dudes. It was for many of the same reasons. But fine.

We'll be different. We'll branch out. And I could go Jailton Almey. I could do anything like that. But no, I'm planting a flag. I'm standing on the corner. I alluded to this earlier. Buddy, it's about to be Arnold Allen's season in the featherweight division.

He is fighting Max Holloway coming up. He is going to win that fight. Once he wins that fight, that is your number one with a bullet contender behind Yaira Rodriguez as they settle that up. I think Yair is a good chance to beat Volcanovsky, but whoever comes out of that, Arnold Allen is going to be the dude who beats the winner of that. We are talking by the end of this year or maybe very, very early in 2024. Arnold Allen is your new UFC undisputed featherweight.

featherweight champion, England will have a third champion, and everyone can relish in Almighty. Boom. Well said. All right. Well, cash your votes, peeps. We got to get out of here in a couple minutes.

So cash your votes. I mean, I'm going to lose this one. He picked a UFC fighter. I picked a Belator fighter. We know which way this is going to go. I would have picked you. I was ready to say Usman because he's going to be a top five lightweight by the end of the year. It's a great choice, but you know, I'm going to lose on popularity.

so it's okay. I'm not sure you've ever watched this show before, Luke. I got to be honest. If you're thinking I'm going to win a popularity contest, you're new here. You cash your votes now. I'm very curious to see the percentages here. BC has kind of tuned up jet on the percentages. Who knows how the percentages will go this way.

But tomorrow, heck of a morning, 10 a.m. Eastern. We'll have a preview show tomorrow for UFC Vegas 69. I'm sure that'll be a 25 minute affair at best. Saturday, people's pre-fight show, post show, all that fun stuff. And then AK and I would back on Sunday for matchmaking coming out of UFC Vegas 69 with on to the next one. And then we get another Vegas card coming up. UFC Vegas 70, Bellator coming up next weekend, which is a really good card. And then on to UFC 285.

So Casey, do we have a winner? Oh, we definitely have a winner. We are, we are, we. Why were you both? Why were you both around? The actual answer is Tatiana Suarez. Oh, that's right. That's actually the answer.

And I didn't think of it until just now, but she's coming back next week, assuming that happens. And that's, that's the whole, also or, that's the whole cat and caboodle. Or her boyfriend, Patchy Mix, that fucker's doing amazing things too.

That's a great pick too. That is a great pick, You're just determined to pick Bellator fighters, aren't you? I'm not even trying. I'm not even trying. But in fairness, what about Johnny Epplin? You have thoughts on Johnny Eppelin?

No, no, no, no. In fairness, in fairness, I think most people would agree Usman Numergamedov and Apache Mix are two thumbs up with those guys. Yes. Casey, who wins? Well, I changed it up at Biggs.

I knew this is going to be highly competitive. So for the vote, I offered the draw option. Either Jed wins, Luke wins, or draw. 19% of you out there pick draw. So a lot of people thought was very close.

Okay. But we do have a very decisive winner though for the other 81% with a 59% of the votes. Oh, so even if you added draw to the loser, it's not, it doesn't get there. No, no. I was trying to stretch this out

because it's a blowout. Your winner is, and still undefeated, Luke Thomas. Hey, Luke Thomas comes back, gets the win. Congratulations, and you don't get money or a prize, but you do get 30 seconds to talk about whatever you want to talk about, good, bad and different, you want to plug your stuff, the floor is yours. Yeah, just two places you guys can find me, YouTube.com slash Luke Thomas. I got to chat today at 3 p.m. or YouTube.com slash morning combat.

Hey, boys, I'll take my time to say thank you so much for. for inviting me. I had a great time. I've seen Casey on the road. I've seen Mike on the road. Jed, I haven't seen you in a while, but it's nice to at least be here with you guys, and I appreciate you having me on. Thank you so much. And we appreciate you being here, Jed, any final thoughts? No, you know, I'll take my loss. I won't blame it on IV hydration or after the fact saying I definitely won three rounds and deserve a rematch. I'll just take it on the chin. You know, sometimes you give an effort, come up short, and that's how it goes. So, done, Luke. It was a great competitive battle. I think it lived up to the hype. Casey, hit the

music so we can get on out of here. There it is. All right. Back next week on between the links. We'll recap UFC Vegas 69. I'm sure going to talk about there. We'll talk to UFC Vegas 70. We'll talk the upcoming Bellator card and all the news and notes going on in the world of mixed martial art. So thank you for joining us for Jed for Luke Casey on the ones and twos. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn may take you home. I don't. and I am Mike Kack. See you back here next week between the links.

Good night, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links, an MMA fighting production on the Vox Media Network. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.