MMA Fighting - BTL | Makhachev vs. Volkanovski, UFC 284, McGregor vs. Chandler, Bellator 290

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Islam Makhachev will look to defend his UFC lightweight title for the first time against the No. 1 fighter in the world, and featherweight champion Alexander Volkanovski in the main event of UFC 284. With so much in play from a legacy standpoint, is Saturday's title fight the most high stakes fight in UFC history? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the incredible headliner for the lightweight title between Makhachev and Volkanovski, the promotion for the fight, and what is on the line outside of the 155-pound belt. Additionally, topics include the rest of Saturday's card, Dana White announcing the return of Conor McGregor this past Saturday to face Michael Chandler as coaches on The Ultimate Fighter, and in the octagon later this year, Bellator's CBS debut with Bellator 290 and UFC Vegas 68 this past weekend, what is next for Derrick Lewis after his third straight loss, and more. Host Mike Heck will moderate the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and reporter James Lynch. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow James Lynch: @LynchOnSports Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... Boy, Sylvester Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Thank you for being here, everybody. There I am. So much to talk about. We are on the eve of the eve of UFC 284 and the big main event.

Champion versus champion, Islam Makachev versus Alexander Volcanovsky. And we're going to build up to UFC 284. We're going to build up to that main event. But let's get into this one. So much to discuss. Let's introduce the combatants first. You know him.

He's Mr. No Gray area, the co-host of No Betz Bard. He's the exhibition king and the woody page of MNayfiting.com. It's a great website. Is it not, Jedmishu? How are you? It is a great website. I was going to say excited to be here, but I'm not.

Because I'm going to catch you in the teeth today. Because I have opinions that most people don't share about this upcoming fight card. And it's been a rough week already. So I can only imagine things are going to get worse from year on out. Oh, man. I am very, very excited. And I'm also very excited because back on the show, and he's back on Twitter and YouTube with the correct accounts this time

after just some really awful stuff going on for him. But he came through on the other side like he always does. He's one of my favorites, one of the hardest working people in this industry. Let us welcome back. The great James Lynch. Hello, sir. What's going on, my man? Hey, guys.

Thanks for having me back on. And yes, it's the hacked free James Lynch edition of Between the Links here today. Very happy about that. James, who hacked you? Yeah, do we have to happen? Some dude in Europe, we could do a whole show in it, I'm sure. It was awful, guys. I need to know the country.

We need to know who the game of is. We just know somewhere in Europe, somewhere in Europe. Some guy was trying to hack me and turn my YouTube channel into a Tesla live stream, like the same thing that happened to the UFC. Well, I have to say, just seeing the lower third of at Lynch on sports just makes my heart. That on really makes a difference, doesn't it? The on as opposed to just the regular Lynch sports. sounds so much better, doesn't it? It does. It's got a different flow to it. But let's get into this

thing. And we're going to start this past weekend and then we're going to make our way up to this Saturday because five days ago, we had Bellator making their CBS debut with Bellator 290, Fador's final fight, didn't go his way. Ryan Bader gets it done. Still the heavyweight champion. Johnny Eblen, fantastic performance to retain his middleweight title. Brennan Ward got a nice big boost. and then the UFC was back at the apex with UFC Vegas 68 at a much later start time that we're accustomed to. Big win for Sergei Spivak and the main event against Derek Lewis. We saw some new contracts awarded from the Road to UFC,

some great showings throughout from some of the athletes on the card. But James, I want to start with you. When we look back on this double header, what was your biggest takeaway from these two cards? What stood out the most to you? I think it's just the overall theme of what are we doing here? I hate to be negative. I'm Canadian.

I got the Canadian shirt on today. I always like to be a little bit more positive. But there was no need to do that main event with Fadour and Ryan Bader. We all knew this was going to happen that Bader was going to go out there and get an early finish. Very predictable. You would have liked to see Fador, you know, hanging up a little bit earlier here. It's unfortunate because a lot of the newer fans that watch Fador just know him as the guy that's old and got knocked out. But no one really remembers or they should do their research and should remember the run that he had in pride,

which is one of the most incredible runs in MMA history, the run that he's, had taking out some of the top heavyweights in the world at the time because people forget it wasn't the UFC who had the best heavy weights it was pride FC so um that's the unfortunate part and then on the UFC side of things I'll tie this together why do they keep putting Derek Lewis in the main event again similar situation here uh Derek Lewis getting finished early uh the fight was with spivac before was canceled they had to reschedule it um I do not want to see Derek Lewis in a main event anymore I like Derek I think he's a great personality I think he's entertaining but I don't need to see this anymore so that's sort of the overall theme is what are we doing here with these

older fighters, putting them in main events when we know the outcome even before it happens. Jed, what say you? I mean, we've had some time to digest this. We got your immediate thoughts on the Bellator card right after it was over, but five days later, biggest takeaway from this past weekend. I have warmed up, and I was okay with the Bellator card. And on our post show, I talked about it. I think I gave it a B minus. I'm willing to give it a B. I have been swayed by an argument from the great Chehina al-Shadi. in that, especially when the numbers came out, Belator averaged a million views, which it's not the number that I think Coker was targeting or said that he'd be over the moon with

or whatever it was, which I think was like one and a half. But it did its job. A million views is entirely palatable and probably gets them another bite at the CBS Apple, which I think is largely what they were going for on this card. You know, they created a card that had some very high upside and seemingly minimal downside. And we got the sort of the worst iteration of the card we could have. And it was totally acceptable, you know? James is absolutely right.

We all knew what was going to happen in that main event. But there was at least enough for us to try and lie to ourselves that Fador had a chance there. And realistically, it was what Bellator could do. because Fadour wanted that fight and they couldn't get the Anderson Silva fight done. And there isn't a ton of other fights that really makes sense. I, again, would have preferred to see an Anderson Silva or I always thought Vandale Silva would have been a phenomenal one. But I get what happened and it's fine. It's entirely acceptable.

It is unfortunate that the legacy of Fador for a lot of new fans is not what it should be. But that's just how time works. So it's okay. and in the UFC side, I'm totally with James on the why, why is Derek Lewis still main eventing stuff? But we know the answer. They have to have like 60 main events a year because they run 42 main events a year, but 12 of those are in paper views. And paper views generally need to have two main event level of fights. So we're looking at more fights than they can realistically produce.

And so sometimes they go to the heavy weights and people like. Derek Lewis and then that we get what happened. So this is all the UFC was entirely whatever at the Bellator. I think that was a good start to 2023. Not a great one, but you know, they've done much worse and they've got worse coming up down the pipeline certainly. So it was fine. We certainly talked about it, which is more than as usual for Bellator. Yeah, I was you brought something up because I mean, clearly Bellator the better night overall. More compelling storylines than the aftermath. You know, we talked a lot about them on the post-fight show

and throughout the week. But, you know, Jed, you talked about Bellator 290, warmed up on a little bit, gave it a B. And you kind of explained it like nothing really went wrong for them as far as execution. You know, like you said, the ratings did over a million, which I think is really good for them. But how would you like grade this start of the year for them following this card?

Like they have, they had some good momentum coming out of 2022. I thought Bellator versus Ryzen was. was a very cool concept. They've had some big re-signings, AJ McKee, Badim Nemcoff, lightweight Grand Prix coming up. There's, like you said, there's some cards and headliners

that aren't spectacular, but there are cards in storylines on paper throughout this year that are built right now that are pretty good. But how would you sort of gauge their momentum in the start to the year after this card this past Saturday? They're Bellator, man.

Like, it's, I feel like I, I brag on them more than most, but it's maybe just that I have to talk about them more than most, and they're pretty pick onable. Look, they're doing well. Like this was, like I said, I think this was a fine start to the year for them. I love the rising event. I always think that that's really phenomenal. It's one of the best things they do as a promotion.

The idea of doing a lightweight Grand Prix presser event, you know, the UFC used to do stuff like that where they'd get all the fighters, the go big pressers, and they've kind of moved away from that. Belator doing it for this thing. I think it makes sense. But the big problem for Belator is always execution. And it is they have good ideas generally or least ideas that make sense. And they just can't quite get there. And I've likened it repeatedly and I still think it's the best analogy. They are an organization that kicks field goals instead of touchdowns. And field goals are worth points, but they're not, they don't get you really jazzed up. And that's, that's what this is. The Lightweight Grand Prix is awesome.

Like, it is a phenomenal idea. We still have to wait for that to really get going, which is tougher. It's not like that probably should have been on this CBS card, I thought, at least the opening of it. And the nature of Grand Prix in general, the interest will probably taper down as we move forward through it. Because instead of it being like, here are eight sick fights or whatever, then it's just the one. And it's something that happened a year later. We see that with the Bannamweight. We saw it with the light heavyweight grand prix.

sort of how it works with them. And then they've done good things. They've re-signed important players. They are going to be a player in the Francis and Ghanu sweepstakes. All of this matters. It doesn't feel like they're hitting the home run that they need, but they keep getting the ball in play. They keep getting dudes on bases.

They're going to continue to score runs. But I don't know if they're ever going to break through in a really meaningful way unless they take some bigger swings and connect on some of those. James, where are you at? I mean, Jed just hit a bunch of fun sports analogies, and I'm sure you can maybe throw a couple more in there. Yeah, I mean, if we're using like a hockey analogy, you know, maybe they're scoring a goal, but... Of course the Canadian goes to hockey.

He goes right to hockey. I have to. Yeah, I have to. I have to. No, it makes sense. But no, I agree with what he's saying that, like, I think, unfortunately, like, I don't know who's going to overtake the UFC or get the attention of the UFC. I think it's very difficult because they do have the best fighters.

I know that's a debate that goes on and on. But getting a Nagano would be a really big step in the right direction if they were able to do that because we haven't really seen them. I mean, there's a few fighters they've grabbed that are still, you know, UFC worthy and very, very talented, but no one of the name recognition of a Nagano, right, like Ryan Bader and Corey Anderson, nothing against them. They're great fighters. But, you know, getting the former UFC heavyweight champion would be amazing.

But I think it's just a very tough task to do. The UFC is on ESPN. The UFC is the premier brand. There's still people out there who say, I train UFC. because the brand is so strong right now. So I think it's a very tough task to do. I like them doing the tournaments because that's something the UFC won't do

and people get excited about it. I don't mind the mix of adding in some of these older guys, not necessarily a fador, but like if they were to bring back some other names and just added to an event to get some more eyeballs on. I also wonder, do they look at maybe bringing in some of these, you know, the YouTube audience? Like, PFL's going with Jake Paul.

I know that was a very big signing for them, but maybe that's an audience they need to grab onto as well. I don't know who that would be or who they would sign, but I just think that they have such a tough challenge ahead. And I think what Jed said is absolutely spot on. Like, again, they've got the steak. They don't have the sizzle. There's a food analogy to end things.

Oh, man, we're just, we're just hitting everything. Yeah, I think it's a really good start for Bellatory. I think there's more intrigue in Bellatory than there has been in a while. So let's see if they can execute. But to cap this off with the UFC card and James, I'll go back to you because the biggest story coming out of it, and you mentioned it, it wasn't even Sergey Spevex win. Like we're not talking about the fact that Sergey Speedback won.

We're talking about that Derek Lewis lost. It's finished again. And this fight was not competitive for a millisecond. And Dana White said after the event, he's not going anywhere despite the skitties on. I know taking him out of the main event spot is what you want, is what you feel is necessary. But like, what do we do with this guy now? Because people still love the man, but this has been just a really tough run for him. What do we do with Derek Lewis now?

You have to give him an up and comer. I think that's the only way you monetize the value of Derek Lewis going forward. I don't even know of like a fun veteran fight that you could put together that people would be happier that Derek Lewis could win at this point. Like I just think that, you know, his biggest weapon is his knockout power. And if he can't even get that off and connect, you know, it's not going to be a competitive fight. It's going to be like anyone in that top five. Even, you know, there's some, like even like a Tom Aswanol, I think would go out there and finish Lewis very quickly. And I like Derek.

Again, it's not anything about him personally. It's just that father time catches up with everyone. And I think if the UFC wants to give him another fight, then give him someone that they can build their name off of. Again, I think Aswanol would beat him, so not him, but someone that's maybe coming up that you want to build off of and move ahead. But I think that's the only play right now because I can't even think of a fun, like, veteran fight. Maybe there's someone that's not coming to mind right now. But I think that's what you have to do. And the UFC has traditionally done this a lot of times where, you know, you have a fighter on their way out, sort of speak, and they're building someone else up.

It's like kind of how they did Chandler and Tony Ferguson to a certain degree where it's, you know, you know, building more Chandler up a little bit more. I know Chandler's not young, but same sort of idea that Chandler beats a Ferguson and, hey, he beat a former interim champ, so to speak. So that's kind of how I look at things. Jed, what do we do from a matchmaking perspective? Like, I mean, you could chuck out a name if you want,

but do we do put over fights where he just builds up newer guy? Like, do we throw him in there with freaking Jelton-Lameda at this point to try to get him over? Do we give him a vet? Do we just focus more on the stylistic matchup? Like, do not chuck them in there with anybody. who's going to try to take this man down, someone like a tie to Ivaza,

who he just fought, obviously, but someone like that is just going to go in there and throw hammers with this guy. Like, how do we do this moving forward, especially with Dana White's and the UFC is still holding this man in such high regard? So here's the issue with there. I mean, there are several issues.

Don't get me wrong. The problem with booking Derek Lewis is I don't, there's not a lot of meat left on the bone when it comes to, giving him an up and come are like Jilton Al-Meda would be a minus 800 favorite against him. No one would care.

We'll watch it because we'll watch Jeltena-Made a fight, but that's not doing anything for anyone at this point. And I know the Spivak loss is the Spivak, like that's the most recent one and he ragdawed him, but that hasn't been the problem

in this particular bad skid. He's been getting lamped, like on the feet or like Taitoivasa and Sergey Pavlovich just blew his doors off. Cyril Ghan just outclassed him and then blew his doors off. There's not, I don't, there is not meat here to make a meal out of with him. Like, you maybe have one more prospect fight where you're getting someone over with,

by beating him, but I don't even think that that's really true. And so I think you're left in a really interesting place. I think there are like three names that I could come up with, right? the first one is the fight that was been talked about for a while and i think it's probably the most likely one and one that maybe it's not most likely because this man is ranked as well but just do a gyersina rosin strike there's two dudes who are going to chuck them you know they both have knocked out chris dachis is their only like relevant win in recent times and you know if if he can win this if derrick lewis can win that fight then he's still then he's got a w under the belt he's still

hanging around, then maybe you can feed him to Alexander Romano or something like that. The other ones, like, you could run back Tibera, or they fought like six years ago or something. Tibera's on a good little wind streak. There's that. And then if we want to get sad, just real sad,

Andrei Arlowski is still fighting, still out there scrapping away. I know we lost to Marcos de Janeiro to Lima, but on a pretty decent wind streak before, that, at least in quantity, if not quality. And that's at least kind of the, here are some two names, you know, and they can fight. And like, I would favor Derek Lewis to win that fight, but he's looked so super shot that it wouldn't shock me if Andreelofsky beat this iteration of Derek Lewis.

So I just don't think you can give him to Jailton Almeida, somebody like that right now. But also, if you give him to anybody, it's looking tough for the man. yeah jarzino was one that popped up someone on to the next one suggested marcos ruggiero delima which i actually think it was a pretty interesting idea stylistically but it looks like rizzeria delima is booked now anyway so that doesn't really matter but yeah tough times for for the black beast we'll see if he could put it together i mean he's trying he's he's out there losing weight and getting in great shape so he's out there trying but let us move on the point for round number one goes to i mean james didn't even have to answer an MMA question, but that shirt just gets to the point all right off the bad.

It's one and a other. Is this how you know I've been doing this too long? I knew before we started, he was winning the first. I'm like, I absolutely guarantee you, James is getting this first point with that shirt. You know, being, you know, moving down to South Carolina from the Berkshires, I missed the foliage of the fall. And, uh, and James just reminded me of all that time, you know, times from the past that we remember.

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availability varies by region. See app for details. The other big news from this past Saturday, let's get to this, because I'm sure Jed is so excited to talk about this. And I actually thought the timing of this announcement was brilliant from a promotional standpoint, because the UFC's not dumb. They are well aware that Bellator was grabbing all the headlines, that people were not thrilled with the start time of the UFC card, that the Bellator card was much better on paper. They knew that. So Dana White, this past Saturday around 10 a.m. Eastern time,

gets on the social media channels and announces a few different things. One, UFC 287, April 8th. It's in Miami. Two, Sean O'Malley signed a new eight-fight deal. And then the big one, Connor McGregor is back. He and Michael Chandler will coach the ultimate fighter.

And then they will fight sometime this year. So, Jed, with the fight and tough and connerback chanler is the opposition how would you grade this news and everything else involved with it was this the fight to make are these the right coaches etc i think it's all good i mean it is all good i think this might be ideal i i think i am in the minority here i thought the fight to make was connor versus tony i still think that that fight made more sense because people would be like well tony's lost a whole bunch of row. Go look at Conner's record. It's not very good recently either. Actually a very fitting matchup if you're

talking about where they're out on loss and wind streaks, et cetera. And that feels like a really, really winnable fight for Connor at this point if he has any juice left at all. And because Tony is still ranked in the UFC rankings and even on our own fantastic website, some people erroneously still have Tony ranked as a top 15 lightweight. That's a win that is relevant, even if it doesn't actually feel like it. That felt like the needle to thread. But it always seemed like here was the energy. Because given Michael Chandler a whole ton of shit on this show, I'd stand by almost every bit of it.

We'll not back down off that corner. He, as we say often, Mike, he did the thing. He was very focused. He made an effort. And he has now achieved the thing he won. wanted and you have to give him credit for calling a shot and speaking it into existence. And so this is the fight that I think has the most inertia certainly for any Connor comeback fight. It's probably going to do the most business, though you could convince me that

a Nate Diaz trilogy fight if they re-sign Nate would do it. And it's, it's, it is fascinating in a way that I kind of wish it wasn't. Because if Connor does win this, he's going to get a lightweight title shot and then I'm going to hate everything. and he can win this fight. Like Michael Chandler's probably going to be a favorite when the fight gets close. I know that opened at Pickham Odds. Connor can definitely win this fight, particularly depending how Chandler fights. And so if he does, that's a top five, top 10 win.

I don't know exactly where he is in various rankings. And it's certainly going to draw eyeballs. People are going to tune into tough for the first time in years. I won't because I value my time. And so I will not be tuning into tough. but lots of other people will and if that's what, you know, if that is what you are into,

you are going to get more of your money's worth than you have in any of the recent seasons. So I think this is, this is a touchdown. If Belator's kicking field goals, this is a touchdown with the two-point conversion. Back to the sports analogies, James. What did you think of the announcement?

The names, is this the right way to go? Great move by the UFC. First off, doing it on the day they did, like you mentioned, taking some shine away from Belator. but that's the thing that I think people need to look at here is the coaches for the ultimate fighter. That's what's been lacking the last couple of years.

They did a big swing and a miss using a baseball analogy there with not doing Colby Covington and Jorge Mosphidal last year. I don't know why that didn't happen. That was the coaches to make. You need to have some sort of heated rivalry. And you're going to get that here. And you've got two fighters in McGregor and in Chandler who can definitely cut a promo.

They can talk very well. That, you know, Jets not watching it. I haven't watched the ultimate fighter live in forever. I'll probably watch the season because I'm just interested to see Connor and Chandler go back and forth. As much as it's about the fighters, the coaches really do make the difference. And I think we've been lacking entertaining coaches for quite some time. I know Volcanovsky and Ortega had their thing, but it's not the same. You get two of the biggest personalities.

So the other thing you have to look at here is how much more are you going to get out of Michael Chandler, right? Like it's not like he's a young fighter. They are trying to maximize whatever they can. There's, you know, people feel a certain type of way about Chandler, whether it's really don't like him or maybe they do like him. There's no sort of in between with Michael Chandler. So I feel like the coaching is going to bring people back in. You're also hearing some rumblings about maybe some UFC veterans being on the show with some prospects. I think that's a great idea, too.

I think these are all positive things for the show to get people kind of back in. Because let's face it, people prefer contender series over the ultimate fighter. It's just, it's the way it is. It's an easier format. There's four fights. There's, you know, the idea of, you know, does he get the contract? Does he not? There's all that.

I think the ultimate fighter was good when it first started because there was no contender series or regional cards that are on you. UFC fight pass, now you have this as well. So there's that side of it. And there's the fight itself, which I agree with Jed. I think Tony Ferguson was the fight in the sense that Connor could lose and that's not good for business. I know, you know, there's certain fighters like Chal Sennon and others who can lose and still get big fights because they are who they are. but I really feel like if Connor ever wants to taste a title shot again, he's got to start winning some fights and coming off this layoff, coming up, the lack of activity he's had over the last

couple of years. Chandler can definitely win this fight. And, you know, people talk about Conner, like I see people talking about Connor McGregor knocking out Chandler. I mean, Chandler's taking some good shots. You look at Justin Gaichi as someone who hits very hard. He was able to survive that fight. I just think that the fight itself will be very intriguing, very interesting, but it's a fight that also doesn't favor Connor very well. Because like you mentioned, if Chandler doesn't want to be entertaining, he's got that wrestling. How many wrestlers has Connor fought over the last couple of fights? Not too many. There's a reason for that. So I know the odds are at a pick him right now, but right now I would pick Michael Chandler because of the activity level,

because I think he has more ways to win this fight. And I also, you know, is this going to be at 55? Conner's looking pretty big right now. Is he going to be able to make the wait? So there's a lot of question marks here. But I think from the ultimate fighter perspective, they absolutely nailed this. I think from the fight perspective,

Tony would have been, I think, a little bit more of a sure thing there. And I like Tony a lot. I just think that his last performance against Nate Diaz has really showed a decline there. I think Michael Chandler has a better shot of winning this fight. So that's what I think. James, I love tough when it came out. I loved it.

It got me. much more into the sport a thousand percent but my issue with the show and I'm starting to I'm starting to get vibes on the contender series of this as well it is not really evolved at all

since the beginning and you know you can bring in all the personalities you want to be a part of it just the formula has not changed at all although like you said there are reports coming out we've had talks with people about it as well nothing is official but lightweights banam weights

UFC veterans, newcomers, maybe doing the vets, looking for the second or third chance or whatever, against the newcomers. So they think is great. If they're actually to do that,

it's a very interesting wrinkle to this process. So outside of the actual coaches, James, if this is the lane they take and they do second, third chance, UFC fighters kind of on one team, and then like the newcomers trying to get their shine on the other team, does the concept wet your whistle?

Is this enough of an evolution for you to be invested in it outside? of just the Connor and Michael Chandler factors. It is. I think they should have been doing this a while ago. I know they've done, I think, two comeback seasons, something along those lines. But I think it makes sense because here's the thing. We already know who these fighters are for the most part.

I mean, we don't know the roster yet, but you would assume they're going to get some names that we're familiar with. And I think there's, you know, when a fighter leaves the UFC, people still know who that fighter is. I think part of the problem with the ultimate fighter, because you have contender series now, you're learning about all these new fighters. So it's hard to keep track of who's who, the stories, all that. but when there's a fighter that's been released, like we just, I don't know if it's official yet,

but the Sedukukukuk, Kakakamanov, who, you know, apparently was released yesterday or said something along those lines. Like someone like him, if he was on the show, I think people would be interested because it's like, why did he get cut? Now we're kind of rooting for him to get back. I've never understood why the UFC doesn't utilize that more just because, like I said, they already have an audience from being on the UFC platform. You know, a name that immediately came to mind when I heard about this. And I don't know if the weight class is going to work. But like a Devonte Smith, Mike, you and I have interviewed him a handful of times. He's an exceptional talent. I think he's had a rough run in the UFC, but a good personality and entertaining

fighter. He would be perfect for someone like the ultimate fighter, in my opinion, and someone that you would want to root to get back in there because he's had a tough run. Can he change things around? Can he go and get a contract? And then going even further, I don't think he'd ever do it. But you imagine like a Kevin Lee on the ultimate fighter? Like, that would be incredible. I wouldn't do it. But that's what I'm saying. There's a lot of possibilities if you do open the door to having former UFC fighters on the show. Jedd, what do you think? Is this concept intriguing to you?

Because we've talked about it on many of these shows with the contender series. Like it's starting to kind of, the well is starting to dry a little bit because we feel like at this point, you know, maybe the first episode, Dana will be a little critical and only give one contract. But then the rest of the season, it's like five, four, five. Yeah, whoever wins. Yeah, whoever wins ends up getting contracts. And we always thought, you know, there's two fighters who were on, two UFC fighters who were kind of on the schnachers. right now.

Let's just throw them in like to a contender series main event and the winner gets to stay and sign a new contract and the losers cut. Like that's interesting and compelling in different ways. But at least if this is the road they're taking, at least the direction of the show, it's a little different than we've seen the past 31 seasons where it's all the same with the basketball jerseys and the coaches challenges and all the craziness. But will this concept get you to watch at all? Like an episode two, nothing at all?

No. There are a couple of fundamental problems with tough. The biggest one being, to your point, you know, you used to love tough, tough was great. Do you know the biggest difference between when tough was good and now, the fighters were good. And it truly is that simple. The first season of tough, everybody on there were really good prospects. And the first 10 seasons, you are mostly getting. good developmental prospects. And as a result, that's why we saw half of those cast members usually would make the UFC and ended up having long-term careers there. The well only runs so deep. And then frankly, Tough no longer became the best way to get into the UFC. If you are a fighter of means and talent, you should never go on the ultimate fighter. Like that is just an awful, awful idea because it's not, that doesn't build a star.

out of you, the ultimate fighter, if anything, certainly since that has happened, largely is boosting the coaches profiles more than the competitors of the show. And so instead, you're doing a highly variable tournament because the circumstances are just much different than you fighting with your camp and your team and your training and development. You're fighting several times in short span and anything that freaking happen. The contender series, I would personally, I would personally say is not something if I was, you know, managing a fighter of means and talent should do because you're locked into a 10 and 10 deal and that's dumb as shit. But that's at least a much more clear path of, all right, you win this fight. You're going to get a contract. Then you're in the

UFC. And so they don't have the horses to do not have the bodies to make a compelling thing, even bringing back some UFC veterans. Like, that is just not going to get me interested. the other fundamental problem that ties in here with this is who is this for? Like what purpose does tough serve outside of some nostalgic? This was a very important part of our history, so we keep doing it. It's not the best pipeline for talent in the sport. And they haven't even reconfigured it to primarily showcase the coaches, which is really what it should be.

And if you, certainly me, I guess I don't want to speak for other people. If I think back on the recent seasons of tough that I am even aware happened, it is because of the coaches. It is because Brian Ortega and Volcanovsky had a semi-fabricated semi-real beef or whatever. It's not because I can't tell you who won the last seven tufts. Genuinely no clue who won. I remember Usman won the live season. No, that wasn't even the live season. That was the Blacksillians versus ATT season or whatever.

that's all I got so no the only way I will I will come back to tough the only thing that's going to draw me in to watch this and they've done it a couple of times is when when they're doing a new weight division when they are opening up you know straw weight I tuned in for season 20 I'll do that if they open up an atom weight division but otherwise it's just not for me and I don't I genuinely don't see the appeal for anybody but you know different strokes different folks I suppose and the beauty of having these two guys on is that social media, you get all the highlights right there. So you don't even have to watch it. I'll probably watch an episode or two, just depending on who the names are. But the beauty of the UFC social media team is they'll show you everything. They'll show you all the big highlight, pivotal moments from each episode, and they'll go from there. And who knows, maybe they'll, maybe if the season goes well, maybe they'll get some Saturday play on ABC. How about that?

You know, you know what else, Mike? There's a great website out there. It's called M.A. fighting.com and there's a great guy at that website, Alexander Kaylee. He does a ultimate fighter recap after every episode because he is a stalwart watcher, good for him. You can just watch, you just read that and then you can know what happened and not have to watch, not even regional level talent compete on the card. So, although this year maybe if they're bringing back veterans, we at least have regional talent, you know, fighters going on there. Yes. Um,

James, what is that stake in this fight? When these two actually fight, what is that stake? I know Volk's already talked about it, and other people have talked about if Connor wins, may just slide right into a title fight, and that would not surprise me in any way. But are these guys fighting for a title shot right now? Are they fighting for more?

Is this a legacy fight? When you think of these two guys fighting, what do you think of? Winner gets a title shot, and that includes Chandler. Honestly, like, that's, Connor McGregor is the exception to any other rule that applies in the MMA. Let's not forget that he,

beat Donald Cowboy Soroni at Welterweight and that was enough for him to get like a number one contender or whatever that fight was with Porre. Like it's just to me it's it's Connor McGregor like you beat Connor McGregor. Look at Nate Diaz. His career was extended so much longer because of that one win over Connor McGregor back at UFC 196. Like that's the rules. If you if you fight Connor McGregor, you've got that attached to your name for the rest of your life. And conversely for McGregor, they can say hey, well he beat a former Bellator champ and a former UFC title challenger. You know like You know that's what they're going to do right now. I think that's also why they haven't been so committal to, you know,

Benile Darius or Oliva, any of these other names. I think they're going to use this and it's going to annoy a sector of the fans and there's going to be the other sector of the fans that don't care about the rankings. And you know that the winner of this fight is going to be in title contention or something along those lines because that's just the way it is with Connor McGregor. Jed, you're getting a lot of Michael Chandler this year. Plus you get the massive fight with Connor sometime before the end of the year. If Chandler beats Connor, is he getting a title shot?

And I'm curious as the president of the Michael Chandler fan club, how excited are you that you are getting a very, very Chandler heavy 2023? I don't think he's getting a title shot if he wins. I don't think, I think Connor is only getting a title shot if he wins. If Okunovsky wins this weekend, is that I would bet my life savings on that outcome if therefore. If Chandler wins, he's still, if Chandler wins, his UFC wins will be Conn McGregor, Tony Ferguson, and Dan Hooker.

Dan Hooker is by far the best of those wins. And your mileage is going to vary on how good of a win that is. He has looked good at points in his losses. That's absolutely true. But he lost them all the same. I just don't think he gets sold as a title challenger to, Islam Makachev. Realistically, I just don't know maybe Volkanovsky would take it,

but I'm not even sure that that's the case because we'll talk about the Volcanovsky thing coming up. I have a pretty clear thought on how things play out should Volkanovsky win. And so I just don't think Chandler's going to get a title shot with the win here. But Connor is like 50-50, maybe 75, 25 to get a title shot if he wins. A tremendous segue. And that's where we're going. We're going right to UFC 284.

We're going right to the big fight. So the point for round two goes to Jed Michael Chandler Rules Michoud is one-to-one. We'll have to get G-C to order. It's really tough. I don't want either man to win that fight. It's a tough place to be in. Well, look, UFC 284 is right around the corner. We'll see where the tough coaches go, potentially against the winner of this fight.

But the main event, we all know what it is. It's the lightweight champion, Islam Makachev, defending his title for the first time against the featherweight champion, Alexander Volkanowski. We'll talk about the fight in a moment, but I want to bring this thing up in particular because I've been asked about this almost every single episode of Heck of the Morning in the last, I don't know, week and a half, two weeks. So I'd love to get your perspectives on this. So James, you probably seen this being on Twitter. It seems a lot of fans, they are pointing out that they have noticed. a sort of lack of promotion for this fight in particular, with everything that goes into it,

with the legacies at stake, everything else here, do you agree with the sentiment that it's not being promoted enough? I do, I do. And I think that has everything to do with Power Slap. I see more Power Slap stuff. I think if you go look at the videos, the comments, all this stuff, like I think just the timing of this is not good for UFC 284. It does seem a little bit less promoted than normal.

But saying that, I mean, you look at some of the fighters on the car, you know, the main, co-main event. I don't see a ton of media there. I know Volcanovsky's been doing some stuff, you know, a little bit more. He's done some stuff with submission radio. He's done some stuff with, you know, Israel out of Sonia's channel, which is good. But I just think in general, there hasn't been a ton of media in terms of this fight as well. And that's, you know, that's on the fighters, the management, all that as well.

But I think the UFC, yeah, they could have done a better job for sure. I mean, this is one of the greatest fights of all time, if not the greatest lightweight fight. I mean, you could make an argument for that. So I'm of the camp that this could have been promoted a little bit more. I also think you don't have, you know, if you look at the main and co-main event, you don't have a name there. I know Islam is very popular, but you don't have sort of a superstar in that in that mix. So it's also hard to do that as well. There's very few John Jones's Connor McGregors that are on the roster right now.

So there's also not a ton of incentive to try and build that up either. But I will agree with the fact that I think PowerSlapp has been a lot more promoted on my timeline as of late than UFC 284. Yeah, and there's probably a reason for that. But I won't get into it because I don't really know. for sure. But Jay, what do you think about this? And how different is the build to this one compared to most of these cards outside of the stupid power slap thing getting a lot of push? It's not different at all. That's the problem. I have had this argument a couple of times as the past few days. And it really boils down to one thing. This is not an under promoted card,

objectively speaking. Insofar as the UFC is just treating this as any other fight. card. And so we, there's certainly the deeper, the more deeply ingrained fan base to people who this is our jobs and this is the thing that we focus all our time and energy on, feel, feel that it has been cheapened, feel that we have lost something because they are not making a grand spectacle of this fight, a fight that they are calling the number one versus number two pound for pound fighters in the world, that we at mMA fighting.com, that is the number one and number two pound for pound fighters in our rankings. That is objectively, one of the most highly skilled best fights that can be made in the world today

and stacks up historically with many of the other champ champ fights. We want and expect the treatment that the UFC has given to other events of this quality. And they just aren't. And that's it. It is not being, they are not promoting this less than they promoted UFC 283. They are just treating it the same and that feels wrong because UCC 283 and UFC 282, were fake light heavyweight title fights and this is a fight for the status of the best fighter

in the whole goddamn world and it's sharing time with power slap the only promotional heft or push it got was is fight week when they started doing some stuff and there's the embedded and all of that is fine and good that is their normal fight week rigamarole and it works it is effective i'm sure if you looked at the ufc's numbers on youtube for embedded and stuff it's probably doing very

well because that is they know how to do that the complaint from my end and that i think that the people who are making this are sharing is they could and should have done more be that promoting it further out showing some creativity whatever it is to do but i'm going to say this because i i did not respond to it because i'm trying to show growth as i become an old man and not pick fights and dunk on people all the time on the internet. Brendan Fitzgerald had a really dumb tweet about like, ah, can you guys believe it? They're not promoting the Super Bowl until the actual week of the Super Bowl,

which is both objectively, like, wrong and in no way the same thing at all. And that's sort of the point. We didn't see shit about 284 until this week. If I watch 284 this weekend, you know what I am guaranteed to have? there will be a commercial for the masters in friggin' April. Like their promotion is showing interest and caring about your product and repetition. Like just having people know because it triggers in their mind, oh, I keep seeing this thing coming up. And that's just not what happened here.

And so again, they aren't under promoting it, but it is not, it did not get what it deserved. And maybe and probably most likely, actually, no, I won't say most likely because I think the truth is the UFC has been checked out for years. The minute they signed the ESPN deal, they checked out they don't give a shit anymore. And that's totally fine. Works for them from a business standpoint. There is an argument that they just looked at the numbers and were like, this isn't going to do that well. People don't care enough about Volk. Islam's not Habib. We're not going to sell 2 million paper views. We'll just give this the normal push and that's fine. That's entirely possible, even if I don't think it's probable. And so that's why we're here for a fight week that should be the biggest of

the year and instead just feels like a lightweight title belt. yeah sell at the arena let's get that big gate promote it there that's the big thing because and it's the problem like and i've talked about this a lot there's no casual appeal to this fight at all like for us we're all watching it we are all fired up but if i go down the street to the grocery store and i say hey connor mcgregor and michael chanler are coaching tough they're like oh godinem mcgregor's coaching the ultimate fighter that's awesome i've watched the ultimate fighter 15 years but i said oh yeah and on saturday alexander volkenovsky's fighting islam machochev and a pound for pound best fight.

They'll be like, who the hell of those two guys? Like, that's just where we're at right now. But in Perth, everybody knows. They sold tickets. We all know. We ain't going anywhere. So there was really no need to put the promotional push behind this because they know they got us. There's no casual appeal to this.

But the fighters themselves deserved a little bit more for sure. No doubt about that. Legitimately. And I would say, legitimate, somebody brought this up in the comments. I can't remember who and it's already gone by. like maybe not this week because it is fight week. So obviously a lot. I legitimately feel like over the past month,

I've heard more about John Jones, Cyril Ghan, than about this upcoming fight. Like, I don't, like, that's, and I'm not saying don't promote John Jones, Cyril Gond. Do that. That's good promotion. Good work.

But like, this is getting short shrift. It feels undeniable that it is. No, no, I agree. There's, but there's at least casual appeal to that fight. People know who John Jones is for good or for bad. They all know who this guy is. So they got to get this dude over and potentially get Cyril gone over with the same at the same token.

So this fight is fascinating to me, gentlemen. And the closer we get to it, the more excited I am for. But Jed, I want to go to you because we talked about Michael Chandler last round and correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a good comparison. This fight, at least the way I think you're feeling about this. This is the Michael Chandler of fights for you. And what I mean by that is, you weren't really into it. Then for a short period, you really got into it. And then you just kind of got out of it again. You found more negatives than positives, not just because you don't think these two fighters are great. You just feel like, I don't know, on paper, it's cool, but you're fascinated in some way, but maybe you'd feel more fascinated if this was 20, 24, 2025 than 2023. So

I am curious, as we get closer to this fight, how are you feeling about it? Are you jacked up? Are you into it? Do you see problems with it? Like, where are we out with this? Definitely not jacked up. It's a weird one for me, man. Initially, I was not into it initially because I mostly just hate champ champ fights.

I think they're dumb in a lot of ways. I understand the appeal, but it's not something that speaks to me in the same way it does to other people. Because you're just a champ of your division. It'd be cool if you just fought those dudes until I knew for a fact that you'd be beaten all of them or better than them. And neither of these men have done that. Like very, very clearly, neither of these men have cleaned out their divisions.

Unless you count beating Max three times cleaning out the division, which it's not. But if you do, then Volk has done more. But it's just like I, this is a fight that I want to be excited about because on paper if you strip everything else. It's really exciting fights, really compelling matchup. There are a lot of levers here that are interesting to tug on, but I don't think it's necessary. I don't think, I think that it's holding up. Holding up, I know it's a thick term or whatever, but it is blocking two divisions from progress that I would frankly prefer to see than doing this. and it's just

and at first I really didn't like it because I thought it was pretty clear it was going to happen I'm pretty sure as Lamachev's going to beat the hell at Alexander Volkanowski because weight classes matter and that's the end of analysis there is it's gotten closer

and I've watched a bunch of tape I can definitely see a world where Alexander Volcanovsky wins this fight and then that becomes that becomes compelling for that moment of oh he might actually just be the best fighter that has ever lived pound for pound may just be the best

fighter if he wins this fight. And that would be great. But then I immediately think to what comes next and what comes next is going to suck. And so it has just really drug me out of interest in this fight. And I am yucking people's yum and I'm so sorry. I know I'm sure people hate this. But if he wins, if Okunovsky wins, it is going to be a transcendent triumph, an unbelievable accomplishment in this sport. And it will be the last cool thing he does because he will win this fight. and he's never going back to featherweight because why in God's name would you? And at that point, fighting more lightweight fights probably isn't good for you because he is 34 or 35. I don't remember exactly.

He is on the older side, even though he's a little younger to the sport. And playing that game at lightweight is incredibly difficult of just it's the best division in the world. I may be the best fighter in the world, but enough dice rolls, I'm going to take a loss. and then that's bad for me historically. So he is going to fight Connor McGregor, if Conner McGregor can somehow beat Michael Chandler, and if he can't, and I would tell him to do this,

he will then just be like, I can make 170, let me try and win three belts. And then we're doing this shit. And it's not what I want out of combat sports. And he's going to retire very soon after because what does he gain by fighting Binaldairoush? Frigin nothing, man.

He should never fight Benile Darius if he beats bowl. if he beats Mokachev. And so to me, the best case scenario is the Mokachev wins. And if he does, then this is a cool fight and it's a solidish win. But like, I would have rather seen him beat lightweights. Because if Mokachev wins, the story is entirely, well, yeah, he beat the featherweight dude. Of course he did. He's very, very small.

So like, that's how it goes. So it is just not a fight that ever appeals to me on a number of different reasons. And I am mostly just want it to be over so I can see where we go from. here because I am more interested in those paths than this one. James, your reaction to that? I couldn't disagree more. Look, you talk about Volcanovsky

still has work to do in the way class. There's maybe two fights for him that we would like to see. The winner of the Yaira Rodriguez and Josh Emmett fight and Arnold Allen. He's beat Holloway. Holloway we know is levels above most of the other fighters in that division. We saw his win over Calvin Cater.

We saw the win over Yaiir Rodriguez. It was a clearer win for him. I think Volcanovsky deserves this. He's a champion that I think is very. very disrespected. We talked about the narrative of when he fought Holloway and that he's not the champion that Max Holloway's young crown champ. He went out there and said, you know what, I'm not only going to beat Holloway, I'm going to beat him dominantly. And he did that in July. And I think that is enough for him to get an opportunity like this. I'm also not a fan of champ versus

champ fights. Like people are talking about Jamal Hill and Alex Pereira fighting each other when they just won the title, both of them respectively. What are we doing here? For someone like Volcanowski, though, who has never lost in the UFC, he's had multiple title defenses. I don't have an issue with him moving up. And here's the other thing you got to remember as well is that if this was the fight that people, some people feel like it should have been, which was Daryush and Mahashav, no way it's as big as this fight because Darius is just another lightweight fighter who, you know, let's be honest, it's not been that active, is not that popular. I have a lot of respect for B'Neal Darius is a fighter. But when Islam's fighting another champion, it adds so much more.

This is a new champion in the division. Does it? Because they haven't promoted it like it has, James. We're getting the same shit. We got Power Slap League to talk about. That's why we got Power Slap League to talk about. that's why we got a, you know, we got the new sport, Dana says it's going to be a mainstay. That's why. But what I'm kind of getting at here is that there is that intrigue factor with the fact that Volcanovsky outside of the Brian Ortega fight, which was the closest we've seen to him getting finished, he really, and maybe the close decision with Holloway in the second fight, outside of that he's been pretty dominant.

He's got some really good quality wins here. There is that intrigue of not only him being a smaller fighter for 155. How is Mahash am going to deal with that? But the fact that he doesn't take a lot of damage. There is that intrigue factor of could Volk do this? Could he do what you were saying and just, you know, get this amazing opportunity. And then on the flip side, Mahashv is the opportunity to build off that very dominant win he had over Charles Olivaa and take out another champion.

And yes, there's going to be moronic fans who say, oh, Volkanowski's smaller. I don't know. I think a win over Volkanowski's very quality considering what Volkanowski has done in his division. He's done everything he needs to do. Like I said, there's maybe two other contenders he could fight. But for the most part, he's cleaned out the division. And I just think when you have a fight like this, there is that intrigue. I think Islam wins.

I don't know a path to victory for Volkanowski. However, there's still anything can happen in a fight. We've seen crazy things happen sometimes. And the fact that this is in Australia, this is Volk's backyard. I just think that this is one of those really intriguing matchups where maybe something crazy happens. Maybe it doesn't, but the intrigue there is enough for me to say, I'm going to tune in, I'm going to watch this and I'm excited for it.

So to me, I don't have an issue with the fight. I'm very thrilled by. And last thing I'll say, you say about the division being held up, that's why they're doing the interim title fight with Yairaer Rodriguez and Josh Emmett. The winner of Max Holloway and Arnold Down will probably. fight them if we'll camp come back down. So they are moving the division forward. That's why they put that fight on this card. So I don't, I'm all about this. I think this fight's great. And for, now, because there isn't that big name that Islam can fight right now. So why not fight a champion

from a different division? I like it. I like the back and forth there. Jed, your face, you feel like, I feel like you have more you want to say. I can feel it through the screen, Jed. I can feel the disagreement. Here, here's why. Because I don't give a shit if Islam fights a big name. I won't to fight people who deserve to fight for the belt and Benio Darius deserves to fight for the belt. Cleaning out your division for the most isn't deserved to fight for the belt. He didn't clean for, he didn't clean out shit.

Tell me right now how many ranked wins over feather weights is Volcanovsky have. I want to be real clear. I am not saying he's not the best featherweight or that he wouldn't beat all these dudes. He has actually beaten Max three times, beaten Ortega and

Chan Sung Jung is ranked. I don't, I think we can all be honest about what that fight means and meant. He hasn't beat Josh Emmett or Yair Rodriguez or Al-Alan. Those are dudes who would have been viable, legitimate title challengers for him. And this fight, Mike, when you said earlier, like, I thought you got really into it. I was like, I did. You know, the moment I got into it was when Habib sold it after Mach won the belt. And then all of that energy just dissipated.

And now I'm left back where I was of, it's a great fight. on paper you can't take anything away x's and o's wise but his fight would be way better in two years if volk spent this year beating those three dudes which i would pick him to do and makachev beat benel deryush and hafail fazeve or justin gaiti or whoever it ends up being another one and then we get this in 2024 and it's like yeah these dudes don't have anybody else to fight they're clearly the two best guys in the world go and now it's just here and it's like ah cool well i hope things work out well. I hope that this is a good event and that good things happen and we can just move on from it because I hate champ champ fights. It's really what this is. I just hate him.

Well, and I think to be honest, I just think you underrate that win he had over Max Holloway. Like if he went and fought a decision like he did against Holloway in the first fight, I'm with you there. Okay, maybe there's more work to do. But he dominated Max in that fight. And Max is levels above everyone else in that way class. We'll find out with Arnold Allen. Again, there's still some question marks with Allen in terms of how good he is in that debate. vision but to me you beat the guy that's like right behind you in a dominant fashion that's enough for me to see him move up that's why i don't have an issue if he beat korean's on me and we're talking about him fighting oh it is though dude come on the title defenses and you talk about who he's

fighting that's not his fault he's got to fight who he's given you could nitpick all types of wins i could talk about i understand i'm not nitpicking his wins i'm just saying he is literally only you're saying there's more work to do there's two opponents he hasn't fought there's three i guess there's objectively more work to do three fights that's it that's not a lot man You're acting like the entire division has not fought him yet. Again, Holloway to me is such a good win. No, three fights is not that much. It really isn't.

That's a year and a half, basically. You could fight all those guys. Yes, he could. And he could do that. But like, look at the UFC champions. How many of them have wins over five dudes in their weight class or whatever? And like, that's what we're talking about. The difference between having two top 10ish wins versus five or whatever.

Like it's, that is a lot. That last win was so good. Yeah, he beat the shit out of Max Holloway. It was maybe, legitimately maybe the actual best performance that has ever been put forth in the octagon. I am not taking away from that at all. Going from that to fighting Josh,

like I like Josh a lot. Yes. That's what being a champion in a weight class is. It's just, do you think Josh Emmett beat Calvin Cater? No, I don't. I also don't think he should fight Josh Emmett. I think he should have fought Arnold Allen,

but I would have been fine with Josh Emmett because officially one or whatever. Is Dan Hooker still at featherweight? Dan Hooker has a broken hand. I have no idea what he's doing. No, no, he's up at lightweight now. My point is, Arnold Down has one good win at featherweight, and that's against Dan Hooker, who's not even in the division.

Arnold needs to prove for. When George St. Pierre beat the shit out of somebody, you know what he didn't do? He didn't just fought the next dude, because that's what being a long-reining champion is. You just fight the next guy. And he had a number of titles. I could see if he won the belt and defended it once, and then he's going up and moving. That's not what's happened here.

He's defeated Max Holloway three times, man. Come on, you've got to give some credit for that. I am. I'm giving him full credit for that. I'm not saying it's a travesty that he is getting this. I hold those wins less highly than others, not because they are bad, but because I thought he won all three. I didn't think we needed the third fight because I thought he'd be Max in the second one.

We're in the same camp there. There we go. So it is the difference between cleaning out a division and showing that you are levels above the next best guy because styles make fights. We talk about it all the time. And I would pick Volk to beat every featherweight on the earth. I am not saying that I would not.

But we make you fight the fights for a reason because I would have picked me. I've picked many things all the way wrong all the time. But it is a difference between, all right, you're fighting max a fourth and a fifth time versus, okay, this time you're going to fight Yaya Rodriguez and take his best shot. And now you're going to fight on Ron Allen and take his best shot and see if they bring something different, a new look, a new opportunity.

That's cleaning out a division. Undeniably, Volcanovsky has not cleaned out his division. He has great wins. He has good title defenses. Undeniably, he hasn't cleaned out of the division. And I just never want these fights to happen unless they have cleaned out the division. That's my whole point. I just think Volcanovsky beats all those guys.

That's all I'm saying. Like, I think he beats Emmett. He beats Ryan. well so then why why are we doing this then like because i want to see it happen i i think oh i think machachev's beating volkanovsky they should fight we shouldn't just give machochev the win we should see if we're right i know but that's the intrigue for me it's like can can he do it i mean this is a guy that again i don't think people expected him to dominate holloway that he did in that last fight so to me that's where he's got it into another gear and max and he did well we'll see we'll see we'll see i again like

that's that's there's that little bit of intrigue for me that's why i don't mind seeing this fight compared to seeing benile derrish and i think derio should get the shot i think deris should get the winner of this fight and that's probably something we disagree on too but that's fine i'm cool no he should he's just never going to get the winner of this fight they're going to have the back up too and poor guy like again he should he should wait and if he beats charles and he probably is yes exactly we can agree at the end here i'm very canadian at the end here we're going to agree after disagreeing so there we go well i mean well we'll see if you guys agree on this last point that i want to bring up because this is another thing that was brought up today and it's being brought up a lot

the stakes of this fight from a legacy perspective and it was brought up earlier and i tend to agree with what was said james the stakes are very high for both guys uh but it seems the legacy stakes it's clear as day they are much higher for volkovsky than mokachev mockachev is the big favorite most people feel like he is supposed to win this fight because he's the lightweight and volk is the featherweight it's the first title defense long win streak in the Cadillac division a win would be big for him to kind of keep his momentum moving forward but a Volcanovsky win would be absolutely massive for him there would be so many conversations that we're going to have to have with legacy if Volcanovsky pulls us off much more than we will for Islam Makachev at least right now so if Volk wins this fight james right now is he the goat is he the greatest fighter ever and if not, where do you put him?

Yes, he would be. In my opinion, maybe not like where George St. Pierre is or any of these other guys, but like he'd have to be in that conversation just because of the fact that despite what Jed thinks, I think he has done enough to sort of clean out that division at 145. So if he goes up there and beats a guy who looks unstoppable right now, just absolutely dominated the former champion in Charles Oliva. That has to put him in the conversation. Now, on the flip side, because I've heard a lot of fans say this too,

if Mahashev defeats Volcanowski, I would not put him at the top of the list. because I need to see more, and I have the same issue with Henry Sehudo, same thing. Henry Sehudo sort of went in, got a couple big wins and then bolted, and people want to call him one of the greatest ever. I'm not in that category yet, and I would do the same with Islam. I think Islam needs more longevity. I'm agreeing with Jed here, where you need more title defenses and things of that nature to be put in that conversation despite how dominant he's been.

So for me, Volk, yes, we can have that conversation. Islam no. Yeah, Islam is just kind of taking a next step on. It would be a great win, though. Amazing win for Islam, if you get it. It would be a very good win. I don't think it'll age great because Jedd you mentioned it

he beats the featherway oh well we knew this is going to happen anyways and if he loses oh Makachov was overrated the whole time if you bought anybody that's actually ranked on the way up blah blah blah James come on this is what the space does they find awfulness I know but that's not the majority I don't think the majority of people would say that

if he beat Volk honestly I think that's a small sector of fans they're definitely going to say oh I think that is definitely no I know they're going to say it I don't think that's the majority of fans who feel that way I don't agree the other side of that people would, I mean, there will definitely be some people like Machachev's a bum or whatever. I definitely think that because like, let's be honest, if Mokachev wins this fight, it is going to be because, like,

maybe not because he is bigger, but it is going to look very much like, oh, yeah, he is a different weight class and that is why he is winning this fight. He's not going to win like a back and forth striking battle. He's going to tackle Volk and tackle. and tap his ass. And so it's going to be like, yeah, well, okay, we learned a thing we should have known already.

So I think that that will be part of the narrative if Makachev wins here. Certainly as time goes on, definitely. But if Volk wins, Jed, where's that goat conversation? Is he the guy? He's got to fight Josh Emmett. So, you know, he's not the boat yet. Well, no.

He will never be the featherweight goat unless he actually goes back to featherweight goat and keep putting in that work. He will be in the conversation. He won't be my choice for it. I've been pretty firmly in the George St. Pierre is that. There we go. Look, you're warming up to me.

You're going with a Canadian guy. I like it. Well, he's just, I think George St. Pierre just pretty obviously should be considered the goat based on his career. Now, if he wins this fight, like I said, he will get himself into that conversation. I think he would have a pretty strong case to being the best fighter ever, just as what he accomplished and what he is able to do in the cage, how his skills blend together.

As far as achievements, he's pretty clearly behind other champions in the UFC and MMA. But the best fighter of all time, depending on how this looks certainly too, he he would have a real case for that more so than I would have for greatest of all time. But if he wins it, he starts to get in that conversation and then it becomes what happens next. Because if he wins it and then does fight Connor and then doesn't retires or whatever, I think that that probably precludes him from it. It's just too short. It's not long enough.

There's not enough wins stacked up. But if he does win it and is like, screw it, I'll fight Benile Derry. You should just beat Mokachev. Probably beat this dude. then full credit to him for for doing that and if he does then he can really start to make a case to assault the title of greatest fighter we've ever seen so he's he wouldn't be the goat but he would he'd be potentially the B-fote best fighter of all time but not the greatest of all time the B-fote I mean honestly I'm willing to start having that conversation with him based on

the third max fight because it actually may be the best performance that has ever been been put forth in the octagon when you consider a level of competition and and just how damn good he looked. But if he does the same thing against Makachev, then he really has a great argument for that. Well, more on this fight from a technical breakdown perspective on the previous show tomorrow, but let us move on because there are more fights on this card, I think, besides the title fight. And the second title fight. I'm very happy this round. is going to be fun. The point for round three goes to James Lynch. I love

the sauciness. Jed did a good job as well. Good round, good round. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move.

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Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. Let's just get right into for time's sake. Jed, we'll begin with you. We have the title fight we just talked about. We have Josh Emmett versus I.A. Rodriguez for the interim featherweight title. We have JDM versus Randy Brown.

We got Paco Porter on the main country. card, which is always fun. What are we grading this card? Like, take the main event out of it. What do we grade in this thing? Dude, if you take the main event out of it, this is, if you remove the main event, this is what, like, a fight night card should be. Like, this should be like the UFC on ABC or whatever fight night card of a main event

that's relevant and solid, if still sort of underwhelming. and then some they're in Australia so let's have some Australian people fight other people. It's not good, man. It is, this is not good.

And some of the fights can be fun, you know. Jimmy and Crude Alonza Minifield were going to get a finish. So, yay. Jack Delamattelena versus Randy Brown. That fight is really,

really good. Not here to talk shit about that fight. That fight rules. Everything else is, mid. It's pretty mid. And that's sort of, we say this literally every week now, Mike. I don't, maybe we're just getting old, Mike. Maybe that's it. I am now the old man

yelling at the clouds of like, back in my day, fight cards had people you cared about. But yeah, I couldn't care less about almost anything going on in the prelims here. And so this is a five-fight main card. And if we're taking the main event out of it, it's it's a way to spend your Saturday. James, where are we at with this? Take the main event out of it. Again, I agree with Jed here.

I think it's a very average card like outside of the main and co-main event. A couple of trees, but we got also remember we haven't talked about this. I mean, we had Robert Whitaker and Paula Costa on this card. We had Kai Kara France and Alex Perez. It would help a lot. Yeah, that would have helped. I mean, you put that on the paper view instead of

nothing against these guys, Justin Taffa and Parker Porter. Then, you know, we're talking about a very strong pay-per-view anytime. I mean, Robert Whitaker, Paul Acosta is an amazing fight. So, I mean, that has hurt them a bit as well. But this is the problem. And I know you guys talk about this all the time. Like, they do too many events. So you can't beef up these cards because, hey, we need this one for the, you know, whatever, February 18th card or another card, right? Like, they have to spread it out as opposed to beefing up these cards. So this is what you're going to get. And, you know, fingers crossed, everything's good for Maine and Co-Maine. But, I mean, this is what could happen.

And I think we will see this happen this year where we'll have a big fight. And, you know, Again, we have to, you know, move some things around. So I think that also hurts it. But yeah, fun is a great way to describe it. And I completely agree about Randy Brown and Jack Delam, Adelina. That fight is a lot closer than people are tabbing it. I'm very excited for that one. It's a good test for both fighters.

All right. Back to you, James. Last question about this card. If we took out the big three fights, we take out the three cool fights here. If you had to tell a casual person on the street right now, now, hey, you can only watch one of these fights. And I'll give you like a code where you can just click and watch for free. Which fight are you telling them to watch outside of the top three?

Ooh, great question. Oh, I guess, I know, Randy Brown, Delamantilina would count that. You know what? I'll go with one that I think is just like kind of an intriguing matchup on paper. And that is this Tyson-Pedro and Modesis Foucau's fight just because Medesis, Mike, again, you've interviewed him a handful of times, you know, gets booted out of the UFC, brutal injury, brutal fight against Cleo Roundtree, he went to Cage Warriors, won the title,

he's coming back. Tyson Pedro, again, a bit of an up and down career. Just stylistically, that's going to be a fun fight, but also just like the backstory of two guys that have really had a bit of resurgence. And to me, that's always a fun equation put together here. So that, to me, is the people's fight on UFC 284. It's a good pick.

There will be a feature coming out on Modestis Bacoscus and his return. Crazy-ass story. That'll be coming in the next couple of days. But Jed, what is yours? You can only watch one. What do we give in them? That's not a terrible choice.

It's not the right one, though. I'm sorry, James. The correct one, look, if in doubt, all the listeners, all the viewers, if you're ever in this predicament, you don't know what to do, you can just go to the fight card and be like, all right,

who's fighting it lightweight? That's probably a good bet, or Banimate also probably a good bet. Unfortunately, there's a lightweight fight on those prelims. That's going to be dope. Jamie Mularky taking on Francisco Prado. Prado's an 11 and 0 undefeated guy.

Looks good. Looks good getting off the bus, Mike. Man looks good getting off the bus. Has been really running rough shot over, let's be real bad competition for the most part. And he's getting a huge step up in Jamie Malarkey. And on the other side, Malarkey's never been like the best fighter. Boy, he's been a super fun fighter. A couple of fight of the nights under his belt in the UFC.

down to scrap and he's going to get a scrap with it like i i think that one is really guaranteed to be very very fun for however long it lasts i like it i like those picks uh the correct answer is just on top versus paca porta no doubt about it we're going to see pocket porter just put on a pace and it's just going to be a lot of fun to watch so you want to see uh heavyweight who cuts down go for 15 minutes of hard fighting parkaporta's you guy that's that's That's right. So there you go. There's UFC 284. We'll talk more about the card tomorrow. The point for round four goes to, it goes to Jedbushu. Well done. And it is two to two. Always go on lightweights. It's always. Yes. So that means it's time for the knockout round. One question will decide it all. Each participant will have one minute on the clock. They will give their response. And then we'll turn it over to the peeps. And the peeps will vote. There will be a poll, just vote on the poll. I'll waste a few. Most, you'll waste a few. moments promoting stuff. And then as the votes tabulate, we will bring in Mr. 3024 E. Casey Leiden

to render the final decision. So Jed, what are we doing here? Perogative is yours. What are we doing? You know, I'm going to be a gentleman. I'm going to pass the prerogative. I'm going to defer to James Lynch. Let him choose whether he'd like to go first or second. All right. So I just thought of this question like 25 seconds ago, James. So bear with me. As you may have seen, Hamzaa Chamaif called out Robert Whitaker is one of the more respectful Hamzat Shemayev calls that we'll probably ever see for the rest of his career. Whitaker reciprocated and said that's pretty cool.

So that's a cool fight. That's one that we've been talking about for a while. The other one that people want to see is Hamzaa Chimayev back down at 170 against Colby Covington to see what we could do there at 170. Dana White's talked about giving him one more shot at 170. So let's just say that, that Hamzaa Chamaev could make either of these weight classes

without any problem whatsoever. Let's just take the Nate Diaz thing out of the equation. If you are the UFC matchmaker right now for Hamzaa Chamev, which fight are you booking and why? Is it Shemaya v. Whitaker at 185 or Shemaya versus Colby Covington at 170? We'll put one minute on the clock. Your time starts now.

100% it's the Whitaker fight. Because to me, there's that intriguing style matchup if it does end up going his way. If he beats Whitaker, he's getting a title shot. If he gets a title shot and let's say Pereira defeats Adas Adasana, you've got Alex Pereira and Hamzaa Chimai. What an interesting fight that would be from a stylist's perspective. You've got a guy in Chumayev who takes guys down.

He grinds the mode. He's got good stand-up. He's got a good ground game. Can you imagine a fight like that? That to me is very interesting. I like Colby Covington and Hamzette Chimayev. I just think Hamzat wins that. Colby, where is he right now?

We haven't seen him since the Mossfodal situation. So I don't even know if he's going to ever come back and fight again. I think Hamzaa-Chimive wins that. fight just based off activity, just based off the style matchup. To me, the Whitaker challenge is very interesting. Chimae have looked a little bit human against Gilbert Burns. He's fighting a guy in Whitaker who's tough to take out. He's tough to finish. Whitaker is, I think, right up there as far as the top of the division. How would that fight go? I don't know. But if he beats Whitaker, how cool would that be for the middleweight division? It gives it some much needed fresh air with some new contenders

there. So I think Chimaiymey and Whitaker is the way to go. All right. I mean, as we say in the radio industry, James pretty much hit the post there. And that was, that was very well done. So, Jed, you got to hear James's response. You were giving him the golf clap. Like, he just made a birdie putt at the waste management open. It's nice. It's nice to have a professional on the other side who doesn't run 90 seconds to four minutes long. Like somebody. Love you, B.C. Yes. Yes. So same question for you, Jed. let's just say all these factors are in play we're not worried about things that happened a year ago in miamii beseech weight classes be damned shamiyev can make either one you're the guy matching this dude up right now what is next for hamzat shamaiov is it robert whittaker at

185 or is it colby covington at 170 everybody's on board for anything what are we doing your time starts now it's colby covington a 170 look i understand the appeal of the whittaker fight I won't even pretend like I wouldn't be very excited to watch the Whitaker fight. But the Whitaker fight lacks two very important things that the Covington fight does. First, if he goes up and he beats Whitaker, he never come in a 170 again. Why would he? He is going to fight for the belt there. He's going to beat either the dudes who has the belt.

That's how it's going to go. So we then will forever lose the welterweight Hamzat, which has been such a dominant, compelling force. But second, and frankly, much more important, and I don't think James gave this enough credit when he was doing the internal calculation. It's never wrong to vote to watch Colby Covington get his ass beat. It is always the right decision to choose for Colby Covington to catch an L because that's exactly what would happen.

Hamzot is the best world to wait on the planet. He would beat their shit out of Colby Covington. It would make my heart sing, and then he can finally, finally fight for the Walterway title. Multiple post hits. This is great. Now we just needed to get one more person in there. We could play a good old-fashioned game,

a three-bar, right, James Lynch? A little three-bar? Yeah, three-bar. Hit the post at the crossbar? Yeah, a little three-bar. You know, Gordon Bombay style. So you heard the arguments. Now it is time to cast your votes.

Is it for James Lynch or is it for Mr. No Gray area, Jen Michoud. A lot going on. Jose Young's is in Perth, Western Australia right now, just getting tons of great stuff for him, He had a interview with Robert Whitaker, which you can check out right now.

We have a prose prediction compilation that you can check out on YouTube as well. We will have the weigh-ins. We'll have ceremonial way-ins, all sorts of stuff. Preview show tomorrow. We'll have a heck of a morning tomorrow as well. And then, of course, look, there are many ways you can watch fights. So why not watch the fights with namafighting.com? I will be in New York once again with a man G.C.

And we'll have our watch party, starting at 9.45 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. We'll have some fun. We'll have some special guests along the way. Maybe there's another special guest we're working on right now. If you watch the MMA hour, yesterday, you might know where I'm heading with this. No guarantees yet, but we're working on it. So get excited. That's going to be a lot of fun. And speaking of being old, by the time Volkanowski and Islam Makachev make the walk, it'll be my 40th birthday. So if you want to, if you want to give me a 40th birthday present, watch the gosh darn watch party with us. And that'll be a wonderful gift. And I'm just the best way to do it.

Also, be on the lookout. Free is a very good price. Yes. A.K. and I will be back Sunday morning after everything wraps up onto the next one. Matchmaking will be live on YouTube for that. Hopefully I have a voice for it. And then you can enjoy the Super Bowl or whatever else. And then next week should be a slower week.

I got a pretty fascinating feature that I'm working on that should drop. I think Tuesday is what we're planning on with the podcast, all sorts of craziness. This is a wild story. It's very fascinating. And I don't even know what else to say. It was an emotional roller coaster ride. So stay tuned for that. So I think I've wasted enough time.

Casey, where are we at, my friend? Ooh. Is it close? You want to let it go for a minute? Extremely close. Talk amongst yourselves. Give me about 30 more seconds. I got to get a couple of votes and it is so close right now.

I know how to kill time because I'm genuinely interested. I assume going off the final question, if Hamzot fought Colby, we would all pick Hamzot. I know I certainly would, but do you, or are you both in on that with me? Yeah.

I would pick Hamzaa too. Although, I do think he gets destroyed. Like, I think Hamzaat wins. I just don't, I think it's going to be similar to the Gilbert Burns fight. Look, I get people not liking Colby. He's a,

to use our host's name here, he's a heck of a fighter. You know, he went, he had two close fights with Usman. I think, I got to get the dad joke and Jed, I got two kids.

So, yeah, that's, that's kind of my thoughts in it. But the thing is, Colby just does not fight enough for my liking. And I think that's a big issue in him fighting Hamzad as well. Well, so then that's the real question for me, because I think we're all there. How would you pick Hamzot versus Bobby Knuckles? Because that's, I think I take Bobby Knuckles. He's not finishing him. I don't think he's finishing him.

And is it going to, I mean, it should be five rounds. I would hope. That's amazing. I'm assuming all of these fights are five rounds. Yeah, I think both fights should be five rounds. If it's fine, because even with Colby, like, Shamiov could take him down and just absolutely smash him out and finish him in the first six minutes of the fight. Like, it's very possible. But if he can't and Colby gets those extra three rounds, that makes that fight really interesting.

And I don't know if the Shamiyev gas tank will be like in a $170. So it would be 176, Hamza. 79, I believe it was 79. 179, yeah. Do it at 1706? That's the thing. I think Whitaker beats the hell out of him, though. And do you know me, Mike, about as big a Hamzaa Chimae of backer,

but I kind of think Whitaker just tunes him up. Which frankly plays into why I was less interested in that fight. Yes. Casey, have we generated enough votes? Are we ready? We have and it stayed just as close, but there has to be a winner. There has to be a winner. All right.

Oh, boy, oh boy. Get your votes in, guys. In the 80s. Oh my God. You haven't closed it yet? No. All right. Hey, you got to do what you got to do, Case.

You got to do it. Your winner today with 51% of the votes is our Canadian friend, James Lynch. Oh, he gets it done. There we go.

James. I'm too good. I got style points for that. That's what it came down to. It was the dad joke at the end. end. I think he did it. Oh, that also put you over. Put you over the edge. So James,

you are the victor. You get no money, but you get to promote or say whatever you want to say for the next 30 seconds uninterrupted. The floor is yours. Perfect. I interviewed Cyril Gone the other day. Go check out that interview. First interview, I think, since the John Jones fight was announced, really excited for that fight. UFC 285.

I'm going to be there next month covering that card on the trenches. So I'm really excited for that. Check me out. Twitter. At Lynch on Sports. back in business. We fend it off the hackers. It's all good. My YouTube channel's back to YouTube.com slash Lynch on Sports. And check out the gambler's perspective. That's on UFC Fight Pass. I produced that show with Gianni the Greek and Nick Kalikas. If you guys are looking to make your bets this weekend, that's on Fight Pass. We had Tony Durst,

Dunst, I should say, the poker player giving his Super Bowl bets this week. So I know a lot of you are going to be watching the Super Bowl. Check out Tony's plays for this weekend. Really excited about that. And more importantly, Mike, thanks for having me on, man. And Jed, it was a great chat with you guys. I don't want to keep this too long because Listen, we got fresh as air time here. Jed, what would you like to say? Because to me, I feel like nobody lost. I feel like everybody won with this battle.

And that includes you. We're all winners. I don't know. I hope you guys enjoy the fights this weekend. I will be watching them. I will be involved. And, you know, shamelessly, without any journalistic integrity whatsoever, please God win Islam.

Just please win. because I will have to hear about it forever if you don't. And we'll have to hear Alexander Volcanovsky forever talk about being disrespected. And I just don't think my heart can take it, guys. So let's go Islam. I was trying to go the entire episode without bringing that up because that gets you all fired up.

So we'll leave it at that. Casey, you can hit the music. All I want to say on that note, Mike, on MMAfighting.com's YouTube, There is a pros predict. I think Jose Young on site talked to 12 fighters at that event. Do you know how many of them

were picking Volkanowski? Freaking nine of them. This man isn't being disrespected. Stop with the nonsense, people. Hit the music. We are done. Appreciate you for watching the show. If you're watching after the fact,

thank you. If you're listening on the podcast, I appreciate that. We're done. For James Lynch, for Jed Mishu. Big shout-up for Casey. on the ones and twos. We are done.

The iconic voice of Estia Lynn, perhaps we'll take you home, or maybe it's Casey doing an Esther voice. But either way, it's going to be great. Thank you very much. Back next week on Between the Lakes is Jetmasu versus Luke Thomas live next Thursday. We'll see you then.

Good night, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links, an MMA fighting production on the Vox Media Network. Happy birthday, Mike Heck. Who was that? You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.

You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.