MMA Fighting - BTL | Musk vs. Zuckerberg? Ilia Topuria's Arrival, PFL Controversy, More

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

Billionaires Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg apparently want to fight in a cage against one another in this crazy year that is 2023, and UFC President Dana White doesn't just want to promote it, he's all-in on the idea of promoting what he predicts will be the "biggest fight ever in the history of the world." While he might be right, are you interested in seeing it, and if so, would you want it in the octagon? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will give their thoughts on the potential bout, and White's overwhelming interest in being a part of it. Additionally, topics include the controversy surrounding the fallout of PFL 6, Natan Schulte and Raush Manfio's poor effort, both fighters being suspended — which led to Schulte being ousted from the playoffs for Shane Burgos — who the blame goes to, Ilia Topuria's incredible performance against Josh Emmett in the main event of UFC Jacksonville, if a title shot could be next, Saturday's UFC Vegas 76 card headlined by Sean Strickland vs. Abus Magomedov, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup, which features the return of MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew as he challenges Eric "New York Ric" Jackman for the BTL title. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand-new edition of Between the Links. Thank you for joining us on another Thursday. And boy, oh boy, this is one of those weeks where it's an eclectic mix of topics, the good, the weird, the ugly, and more. And it's just, it's got to be a very interesting program. So let's not waste any more time. The BTL title is on the line, a title held by this man, who I'm about to introduce a few times. but today he enters the virtual arena as the Challenger,

as the co-host of No Betts Bard. He's Mr. No Gray Area, and let's be honest here, he's had some takes about not only the sport, but this program, because of the man who wears the goal. Let us welcome back, the returning, Jed Michoud from MNayfiting.com. Hello, Jed. Hey, Mike, I'd like to start by saying, this is all under protest.

I don't know what we're talking about today. I was never sent a list of topics to prepare for. So I'm shooting straight from the hip, buddy. It's going to be fun. And there's a reason for that. I don't think you need to really do a lot of research here. We introduced the reigning defending ATLG. Always do your own research, Mike.

Always do your own research. A little curb ball here. Puss, I'm an idiot, and I forgot to send him to you. So my bad. The man who defeated A.K. Lee last week on one of the closest matchups in the history of the show. You know him from the M.MA hour, the M.A. Fighting social media. team and for having the best theme song in MMA past president and future. The champ is here. Mr. Eric, New York, Rick Jackman. Welcome back, Mr. Champion.

Hi, guys. What a lovely day. What a special way to be able to spend time with each other. I'm so excited for this. I don't even need, who needs prep when you're just having fun with your fellas? It's going to be a great time. Ghali. Yes. And I screwed up everything because I didn't even send him to Casey. So there might not even be any like lower third. or anything. So look, let's just get into it. We really didn't get into this last week, but we're going to now because it's apparently become a hot topic in and out of the mixed martial arts world. The potential battle of the billionaires, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, Facebook versus Twitter, money versus money. And these guys apparently want to fight each other.

And Dana White says that this would be the biggest fight ever in the history of the world. and he might not be wrong. And we'll get to Dana and the UFC's interest in this fight in a moment. But Jed, I want to focus on just these two dudes right now, potentially fighting each other. What was your reaction to Musk and Zuck wanting to throw down this getting out into the world,

picking up steam, et cetera? In other words, are you interested in this fight if it does happen? God, no. I'm going to keep this to a tidy 60 seconds This is all the breath I'm going to give to this one. It's real dumb. I hate it.

It's very obvious. This, of course, is the natural devolution of how things are going. It's really stupid. Don't you pay money for it. The only thing of substance I think about this fight and that I will speak to, what an awful T-shirt from the UFC. I mean, just Zuckerberg versus Musk. That is just so descriptive of UFC promotion.

It's just like, we're just going to put the two names there and that's good. Like, it's just like every fight, at least do Zuck versus Musk. Like, it's just, it's morally bankrupt. It's promotionally bankrupt. And I will not be giving this any more of my time. If you throw it back to me, talk about something else because this is some dumb shit that I will not dignify with more than what I've given it. I appreciate that.

It will go back to you because we're going to take a little bit of a turn here. but Rick, this fight, are you interested in it? Like, we'll talk about what promotional banner could be under in a moment, but just these two dudes fighting. Do you care about it? I'm going to say, I'm going to give myself an out here. You teed it up initially as if this fight is made, if this fight is booked, are you interested in it?

And in that case, I will say yes. Like, if this is made, if there is no alternative, if we have already arrived at the conclusion that this will be made, sure like I'd rather watch these two than 90% of the crap that's going on at the apex right now so sure why not it's interesting to see two dudes of that status lower themselves so sure if if we back the question back out am I interested in it being made that's a different question and the answer is no I have no interest in it being made don't care no no incentive for this to be made don't really see the reason.

But if I am forced, if it is made, sure, why not? Like, it's no worse than any of the other crap that we're kind of seeing these days. Sure. So I guess it might be time to cue the up. Here they go ripping on Dana White comments again because, look, it's never the plan to get Dana involved in these types of things. He does it himself. He inserts himself into these conversations with this Musk versus Zuck idea.

He's been more of the focus on this than anybody else. because he can't stop talking about it. He's done interviews with Pat McAfee, with TMZ. He wants this fight. UFC social media has been pushing it. But here's where things get interesting. And Jed, I'll go back to you, because you're going to have to say something.

Dana White has been saying for weeks, maybe even longer, that we don't do gimmick fights in the UFC. Then he's throwing out a John Jones-Tyson-Fury idea for the baddest man on the planet. It seems kind of gimmicky to me. Then he's throwing out this. That's another gimmick fight. But on top of it,

we've been begging for the UFC and Dana to do something that can be perceived as fun and well this idea to a good amount of people could be fun and you mentioned the freaking $40 t-shirt on sale Dana White is all in on this idea Jed you don't have to talk about the fight but let's talk about Dana being all in on this wasn't all in on John Jones francis and Gano but he is all in on this fight stop the press is Dana White's a liar whoa I never saw that coming before. Yeah, of course he's all in on this. Like, it will make a ton of money.

And I actually will argue that it happening inside the confines of the UFC is it gives it a patina of, what's the word I'm looking for, merit that would make it more broadly palatable to people. Like, this is a match made in shitty promotional heaven. And if these two do. would ever do it, it would probably be the highest selling pay-per-view of all time. It's not going to. And so we don't really need to spend too much time talking about the vanity projects of

erstwhile billionaires. To hell with them. I don't want any part of this. It doesn't shock me that Dana's doing this. He's going to try his best. If not, maybe he can sell some t-shirts. And it is terribly unfortunate that you're right, Mike. this would, by most definitions, at least be something fun.

And it just sucks that the UFC can only have fun in this really narrow, terrible lane that will never happen. And even if it were happened, would just be objectively terrible. Yeah, Greg, your reaction to Dana's reaction to this, the UFC's potential involvement in this. I'm sure you're not surprised that Dana jumped on this, but they're making the, like, I think he's going to make a real push at this. and I don't know. As he should. Like even though there's a propensity for people to point out how Dana White speaks out of both sides of his mouth, which is accurate and true, often the reason he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth is to chase financial gain and profits and business for the company. One way it was more beneficial to him than the tide changed.

And now he's chasing the opportunity in another direction. This is obviously something that would make a huge. amount of money, no shocker that Dana White is leaning all in, is going all in and leaning into it. This is promoter 101. And if, if he was not, he would not be doing his job as a promoter, quite frankly. Like, this is what he should be doing. Now, if you ask if it's a dereliction of duty to not be promoting other things in lieu of this, there's probably a case or an argument to be made.

But I do think there's enough space at the table for all these things. And this is something he's excited about because it will potentially. make a lot of money as he should be and as he should be seeking for his stakeholder. So zero shock for me. This is something that until the moment one of them backs down and says, ha ha, joking guys, I was never going to do this. You pursue this until the wheels fall off. So New York, Rick, you feel like this fight's not going to happen.

Jed, you feel like this fight's not going to happen, right? God, no. No, it will not happen. Two people who are notoriously private in their private lives, Obviously, they are public figures, but you don't really know much about them, right? You don't really know about their home lives. You don't really know anything about them. That smells to me like somebody who's not willing to go out there and be embarrassed easily.

And this will be embarrassing for one, the other, or both. And I don't potentially see them stripping down to their underwear and deciding that this is the best way to kind of get attention. I think they can get it other ways. But yeah, they feel a little bit guarded to me. so I don't I don't expect that they will be doing this that's a fucking nice answer I've ever heard for this shit it's not going to happen because they're private and guarded it's going to happen because I'm lost a bag of milk

who would get dunked to the center of the fucking earth like I Zuck trains Zuck like Zuck is a shitty person who's responsible for many bad things in this world but if this ever happened, he's going to wail on Elon Musk. Musk didn't want those problems. Musk bought a social media platform just so people who like him will tell him how much they

like him. He does not want the devastating outcome of getting marked by fucking Facebook and on the biggest pay-per-view of all time. That's why this is never going to happen. Zuck would probably do it because he'll win. So you're saying, Jed, that this would, like, when, Dana says this would be the biggest fight ever in the history of the world. It wouldn't even be close.

Wouldn't be close. It would be the biggest. Over bigger than Mayweather, Pacquiao? Yes. It's selling more than five million pay-per-views. You agree with that too, New York, Kirk? Yeah, agree. And also, you know, we ultimately arrived at the same conclusion. The fear of embarrassment is why this will not happen. By the way, I think Zuckerberg is probably afraid as well. Oh, dude, I don't think so.

Because if you don't look great, that's probably not great either. Like if what does he give a shit though? Zucker like what do you mean? Musk is the one Musk is the one who's like constantly in the public eye for doing douchey shit like he he's can't take the ego blast suck doesn't care like who will care like will anyone dunk on Zuck will he give a shit also I think I really want to get I doubt it also he's going to win. I want to just stress the most important part of the previous question though Mike this

would sell the most pay-per-views because if for no other reason, then neither man's ego would allow it to not sell the most pay-per-views, and they have plenty of money to make that happen. I will spend $50 million to buy as many pay-per-views as need be so I can run around. It's, you know, it's the stolen valor of Jake Paul just taken to the ninth degree. Like, oh, look, I'm a real fighter. People like me. I beat somebody up. all just dumb shit. Can we please move on to Ilya?

Who is dope? I wish we could move on to Ilya, but we are not, we will move. We will get there. We're just not going to get there next. We have to we have to go down the rabbit hole of bad things a little more before we get to the good things in Ilya, but let us move on. And hopefully this is the last time we have to talk about this for ever and ever and ever. But everyone keeps asking about it for some reason and figured, let's give the people, This for sure passed the mom test.

Yeah, it did. It definitely passed the Bob test. I got a lot of messages about this one. Let's pass this topic altogether. The point for out one goes to, give it to New York, Rick. He tried to be as nice as positive possible about it. And I think Jed would never come back on the show if he got the point.

Take that tainted point, Ricky. You take that tainted point. I will. He sure will. That's why he's the champ. for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what?

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Let's get to the ugly, because things have gotten ugly in the world of the professional fighters league, just when things were heading in the right direction, this past Friday night happens. It was longtime friends and teammates, the Tan Schult, Hausch Monfeo, booked for a regular season fight in the ATL, PFL6. And what we got was not a fight. It was a glorified sparring session,

one of the worst fights in the history of the sport with Schultz winning a unanimous decision and thus, at least by Friday night, earned a playoff spot to boot. Now, this is very strange. The fighters weren't into it. The fans obviously weren't into it. Nobody at all was into it.

Then on, even the course, winners weren't into it. Then on Saturday morning, we get word that both Natanz Schultz and Hausmanfio suspended for violating PFL in-fight fighter code for not giving it their all, all the accumulated points for the regular season that both had acquired, taken away, which means the Tan Schultz is out of the playoffs, and now the biggest off-season signing for the PFL heading into this season, Shane Burgos, who got a decision when in his fight, he gets in, into the playoffs as the four seed, Duton Shult would have been the third.

Ergo's in, he will fight Clay Collard in the semifinals. Now, New York, Rick, there are still a million questions in play here that we do not have answers to. And this is not a story that should go away because these questions, frankly, need to be asked and they need to be answered. And there's a lot of blame to go around here. The promotion for the decision making and the matchmaking,

the fighters for performing the way that they performed. This just feels icky. and like a bad look all across the board. So your thoughts on this. And most notably, who gets to lion's share the blame here? The PFL or the fighters or is it 50-50? Everybody's to blame. There are no clean hands in this scenario.

I don't, you know, I've thought about this a lot. There's been a lot of discussion about it. Ultimately, I fall on the side of I don't have an issue with PFL trying to police this. I don't have an issue with them taking the step that they took. I have an issue with the communication that happened throughout the process. My issue stems from A, if they booked this fight not having some kind of now, some of this may have happened. Some of this may be unknown, but it has not been publicly said yet. But not having a conversation with the two competitors and reiterating that they expect them to have a competitive fight and not to put on the performance that they did.

After the fact, not communicating with them on what their plans were now, it appears, I believe Ariel spoke to somebody at the PFL who says, that this communication happened before Burgos' fight. I would have liked to see something, a conversation obviously happened before the fight took place. And then additionally, I would have liked to see some kind of actual investigation, review, something to the, something to give some legitimacy to the idea of why we're making this decision, as opposed to just kind of unilaterally executing it and placing Shane Burgos in the playoffs. It also makes Shane Burgos look bad, who's an innocent bystander. in this scenario doesn't really have anything to do with this,

but is a beneficiary, obviously. So, yeah, I think it was mishandled, obviously, by the promotion. I think it was obviously mishandled by the fighters. If that's the performance that you're going to put on, just say, I'm opting out and not going to take this fight and do something different. Everybody is to blame. But ultimately, I do not feel that this, the fight that they put on is worthy of a playoff spot. and I understand why the PFL will want to nip this in the bud.

But they handled it very poorly, in my opinion. Jed, who is to blame more? The fighters, the PFL, because look, there's communication and stuff like this. I get it. Like, if these two are matched up in the finale to fight for a million dollars, I don't think the fight goes exactly the same way. I think it's a little more hard fought. I think both guys would get it.

But why are these guys fighting in the first place? Like, it's a regular season matchup. We have no idea of the matchmaking works. they have said from day one, this is not a tournament. It's only a tournament when you get into the playoffs. This is a season, baby. This is sports. This is not a tournament.

So when we were talking to the race, Fos and the people above, when this whole thing started with the PFL, anytime you said tournament, they were quick to correct you. This is not a tournament. This is a season format. This is just, yeah, what was your reaction to this?

Where do you place the blame? I got a hot take, Mike. I'm freely here to tell you is a really bad look. I blame the fighters and not the PFL in this one. And let me explain why, like, yes, you could make the argument, why make the match up? And you can make the argument that this is just sort of getting to an outcome they wanted versus like what, you know, this is sort of going against the things that they have so staunchly said of this is a season and this is how it works. And sometimes, you know, our previous champions don't make it because of X, Y, or Z, but we hold to it. All of the optics here are pretty bad.

But at the end of the day, I feel like a lot of the conversation around this has focused on optics versus like the meat and potatoes, which is these two dudes didn't fight each other. Like they just didn't. And they knew that that's a risk. If you are that good of friends, you know, one's a godfather, the other's kid. If you are that tight, don't enter into a competitive event where you may have to face off with one another. If you're not willing to go the whole way, like that's part and parcel of it. You say if this was for a million dollars, they would have fought more. Well, it was for a million dollars.

It was for a spot in the tournament to win a million dollars. This is how they chose to go about it. and I could have, I was, would have been a little bit more, you know, pro fighter in this instance, probably if everyone had just shut the hell up and been like, hey, this is garbage. But instead you get Brian Butler coming out here and being like, bad fights happen all the time. Styles make fights. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining Brian Butler. This didn't happen because of stylistic matchup. We all know why it happened. Own it in the same way you are asking PFL to own what they have done here.

And I could at least swallow it better. Like at the end of the day, you know what you're signing up for. And you're going in there and having a glorified sparring match, somebody in your camp somewhere should have said, hey man, look, there's a real possibility that if we go in there and half ass this, they are not going to take kindly to it. And you know what? Maybe the answer won't be.

They'll kick us out of this year's tournament. Maybe they will just be pissed at us and then not resign us for next year or whatever. But like you ultimately, you know that this is part of the game. And if you are going to be entered into a competition against a friend, you got to be willing to go the whole way. And it says nothing outside of the fact that there's really, I've never been of the opinion that you shouldn't fight your teammates. I think that that's historically been pretty dumb, but whatever. Like you signed up saying that you knew of push games to shove this would happen. And it happened.

And then you didn't fight it. and now you're reaping what you sowed. Like, play dumb games, win dumb prizes, my guy. It's just how this goes. And that's part of this too, is we don't know, like anything that happened building up to this fight.

Like maybe both guys are like, no, we don't want to fight each other. And PFL's like, well, you're going to do it, damn it. Like, we have no idea. But still, I, it's not that I just blame the PFL. The blame goes to the fighters for sure. And there should be an investigation, New York.

I completely agree. So you mentioned, Rick, that you don't have, like, something should have been done here, but you just didn't like the way that they went about it. So yeah, what would you have done differently? There was no transparency to Jedd's point. Like if they've both signed on the dotted line and are aware that they're entering into a fight, they're entering into a fight.

That is their agreement. That is what they've promised to do. So I understand why the PFL would say, you guys told us you're going to do this and you did it. But I do think it's incumbent upon the PFL. to have that conversation again, to reiterate it, to say, look, we know, look, we're matching. Honestly, I imagine this was the line of thinking. I'm not speaking for them, but this is what I would assume. Hey, it would be a worst case scenario if you guys met in the championship and did this.

So we're going to match it up in the regular season. One of you is probably going to advance. One of you probably is going to fall off just based on the points. Have the fight and don't put yourself in that horrible position where you're closer to the million and stealing it from somebody. or taking it away from somebody. We're going to make this fight. Hopefully you guys are able to rise to the challenge.

If they at that point say we cannot, we will not, that's an option and we'll have to figure out a rebooking. But it all comes down to communication. It all comes down to transparency. Once we've passed that point, now once they're in the cage, it's A too late. And B, what the fighters ended up doing because of this position and because nobody kind of seemingly talked this through is put themselves in a very dicey. situation where the lines between a fixed fight and a sparring session are murky, where the idea that maybe the outcome of this was rehearsed and it wasn't just the idea that we're going to have a light sparring session. That's where the investigation I would hope would take place

and something to that effect would happen. But yeah, you put yourself in a really bad spot putting on that performance that they did and it doesn't look good for the fighters. It doesn't look good for the promotion. And I think it all could have been avoided with very simple communications. I think the the idea of just handing this fight to them and hoping for the best is probably not ideal. But the responsibility does not fall solely on PFL to Jed's point. And I agree with it. Once they've signed those contracts and agreed to step in the cage and perform, that's something serious. And they needed to take it a little more seriously.

Jed, would you have done anything differently here? No. And I mean, I would have done some other things differently because like I said, this is just bad optics from the PFL. I actually don't think the end result here is incorrect. I am not privy to PFL contracts, but per their statement, you know, if part of the contract is fighters, you know, use their agree to use their best efforts and skills, like, we can never prove that that they didn't. Like, right? You know, like, we can't say they weren't trying. But we all know what, like, everybody is aware.

We don't have to live in this world of like, well, maybe they were. really like this isn't for going to jail this isn't prison like the preponderance of the evidence is enough here we all know what happened and so like if that is actually in the contractual language then the pfl has in fact done nothing wrong in this way the optics are just horrible i think uh rick brings up an interesting point about like the blurring the line between a fixed fight and sort of what message that can send moving forward. I think ultimately the big failing, the large failing is that the PFL signed two dudes and put them into a competition that didn't want to fight each other.

And maybe they thought at the time that, you know, it would work out okay. But I think the way moving forward here is just teammates, friends don't get to be in the same. I don't care which of you two get it. Y'all can settle that how you want to, but we're never running a lot. foul of this again. We just can't have teammates end up in the same season because if this runs up again, we look like the bad guys, even when realistically, we probably aren't doing anything that wrong here.

Now, New York Rick mentioned something that even like Shane Burgos looks bad with, with this. I don't think Shane should get any blame. He had no idea this is happening. While the other, I know Ariel reported that Schulton, Mafio, were well aware of what happened before Burgos fought. Burgos had no clue that this happened until he landed home in Newark because I had reached out to him obviously while I was waiting to get into the UFC Jacksonville event and I didn't get a response from him and he was like yeah I just landed my phone was blowing up so that's when he found out that he was in the playoffs so it's just a weird look and Jed I want to go back to you because the PFL looks they whether you agree with them or not most of the community there are some people who agree with you that feel like they did nothing wrong but the vast majority people feel feel like they screwed the pooch there. And either way, right or wrong, indifferent whatever,

they look kind of bad. Like this whole situation makes the promotion look bad. So is this something that they'll quickly recover from that come playoff time? Like, no one's going to be really talking about this anymore because of this fast moving cycle? Or is this going to take a little while for them to, I guess, wash the proverbial egg off their face? They'll recover quickly because, like, Here's the truth of the season format.

I like that it's different. It's incredibly stupid. And something dumb regarding it happens almost every season where a guy who knocked out another guy doesn't make it in. The other guy makes it in or a former champion doesn't get to get in because he only fought once this season, even though it was a dominant thing. Like they just have, because their season is two fucking fights. It is incredibly mercurial.

and dumb as shit, and we just sweep it under the rug and move on next year, because it sort of is what it is. Same thing's going to happen here. Like, I'm not here. I mean, I'm here to tell you that, in fact, the BFL took the right course of action. But if they didn't, well, if Shane Burgos didn't get snuck in here, instead we'd be like, well, Shane Burgos lost to Olivier Obamersier, the reigning champion. Whereas, you know, Natanz Schult beat Stevie Ruff. who just retired and then like won a tepid decision over his buddy who wasn't trying hard. Seems like Shane Burgos actually is more deserving,

but this stupid rules like the matchmaking and the season structure of being two fights is insane and idiotic. So I think we're going to forget about this very quickly because something absolutely ridiculous happens every year because of the structure of BFL. Do you agree with that, New York, Rick? that by the playoffs in August that we're not going to be really talking about this anymore? As fans ultimately probably not, I don't think there's too much fan support for Natanz Schult that it's going to be overwhelming that the PFL is going to have to kowt or do anything on that case. But I do think there will be lasting effects of this. I do think the PFL will treat their season differently. And by the way, like, you know, I'm kind of going backwards a little bit,

but look at the UFC's Bantamweight Division with Marab de Vallechevili and Alderman Stirling. To the UFC's best efforts, they have tried many times to make that fight. And the competitors have said, no, it's quite simple, you know, in actual practice and execution. If you're not willing to fight, there's easy ways to kind of deny that. And I guess you could argue like, oh, it's a million dollars in the line. I imagine a UFC title is worth quite a bit of money. So Marab de Valle is showing, you know, what can be handled in this situation. to get back to the question for this round.

No, I don't imagine this is something that's going to linger too long. Ultimately, I think there's enough people on the side of Jed that feel like the PFL kind of just handled it correctly and are willing to move on. And yeah, I don't see a ground swell of support for Natanz Schult all of a sudden pushing him back into the picture. But at the same time, I would still like to see some kind of investigation. I would still like to understand this situation better so that moving forward it can be avoided. And I think that onus isn't necessarily on the PFL and more on the commission who seems to not want to get involved with it.

They released a statement just essentially saying nothing will be done about the result of that fight, which is interesting. Because as I said, I think the murkying the waters of betting and things like that raises some questions for me. But unless that happens, yeah, we'll move on pretty quickly. Yeah, I would just love to hear. I know we've gotten statements from manager. You mentioned Brian Butler. I think just one of the fighters released something on social media. Natanz Schultz asking Francine Gondon would be like, yeah,

fighters rights, all that stuff. And that's not really going to go anywhere. But I would love to actually hear from everybody involved. I'd love to hear from both fighters, like whether they go on an aerial show or talk to one of us. And then just hear from PFL brass. Like how did this all happen? What led to it? I just need to know more.

I just have questions. And as soon as I have those answers, at least in some way, then I'm like, not that I'm cool, but at least I feel better about it. But right now I just, there's just so much unknown with this that it still leaves kind of in a key taste in my mouth. But we'll see what happens. Maybe we'll get a little more transparency.

Maybe we'll learn more about it. But let's move on to what Jed wants to talk about the most. Ilya, the point for round two goes to, goes to Jedmishu. Nicely done, Jed. Thank you. So let's turn into a brighter know. Let's go back to Zuck and Musk for a minute if we could.

I'm just kidding. How about Iliot Tuporia, Jed Mishu? Because this dude just goes into UFC Jacksonville, looking like a star, acting like a star. He looked like a star in the fight. He looked like an even bigger star coming out of his big win over Josh Emmett. Jed, the UFC seems to really have something here. Your reaction to Teporia's performance.

And on top of that, his star potential coming out of this. card. You know the first thing I thought as I watched him just wail on Josh Shammett for 25 minutes? Do you guys remember when there was like, we should do Patty Pimbleau versus Ilya? Ilya would ding kill that man. And everyone in the media was like, Ilya would kill this dude. You don't want to do it. And man, we don't get them all right.

but buddy sometimes we friggin nail it ilia to bury is the truth this man is a future champion uh i would say i'm picking i would pick him to be the guy who takes the belt from volk the only problem is i think yair's going to do it next weekend uh but yeah you won't have it long because ilia ilia is here man he has arrived he showed outside of just looking like a million dollars he he showed developments in his game. He's still so young. And then the star power. That's it, man. He carries himself like he is the next big thing. And I mean, shit, he might be. If they go to Spain, he is going to blow the doors off that arena. He's everything you want in a young guy coming up, everything in the world. He's so, he was so damn impressive, Mike, that he got Alexander

Volcanowski, who has been on a two-year crusade to make me. hate the shit out of him to be like, you know what? Hand up. I can't even pretend like I need to be, you know, making my moves to get back at Islam. I got to fight that dude next. I'm going to handle up against your year. And then we'll go to Tupuri and then we can talk. He got Volk to give up on the lightweight thing, at least for now.

That's how damn good he looked on Saturday. Unbelievable. Eric, your reaction to Ilius, performance and what he could be for this company in terms of being a star. Ilya's fantastic. I think he could be a tremendous star. But I mean, are we not going to pretend that this round just got derailed when he predicted Yaya Rodriguez would beat Alexander Volcanowski?

Like, I can't, I don't know how much more I can't even talk about Elia when that is just dropped in the middle of the round. We don't have to talk about it now. Next week when I'm defending my title, you can come back on and you can get the wood about how he's going to kick Alex's head right off them shoulders. I'm interested in that. I'm interested in the potential for that to play out. As far as Iliot Toporia, super impressive performance, somebody that I've kind of been

keeping an eye on as like, I don't love, there's certain fighters that I like. There's certain fighters that I like to watch, like as an example, right, like an Adrian Yannas is a guy I love to watch. But he's not somebody who I automatically pegged like, that guy is supposed to be. potential future champion. There's like a few recently, Hamzaa Chamaev for sure, and Iliate Tuporia were kind of the two guys that I was like, I can't see a world where they're not holding a belt at some point.

And this just kind of cemented that, right? Like this was obviously a step up in competition, a step up in the rankings. And he passed with flying colors, showing patience, showing off his complete game and just absolutely battering a guy and Josh Emmett who earned Yaiyar Rodriguez the title shot. So it would be hard to kind of make an argument

that like there's not a path to featherweight title contention for Ilya already at this point. Admittedly, though, I don't know if that's, you know, the next step I would want to see right away. I'd want to see the Max Holloway fight just because I want to see the Max Holloway fight. I don't necessarily think that he needs to be in a title fight next, but I also don't think if that's the option that he should be denied. He's made his case. He looks like he's absolutely ready. And Volk versus Ilya would be a great fight as well. So, Rick, if the UFC came, let's just say Jed is wrong and Volcanovsky wins.

And the UFC calls you on the phone and says, look, you have to decide, are we going to do Ilya versus Max now? Do you want to see one more out of Ilya? Or are we doing Ilya versus Volcanovsky like right now? What do you pick it? Because I know you're an enthusiast of the best dudes fighting each other. And Teporia wants that shot. He said he would fight Holloway only if it happens in Spain. But if we're up to you, if both options.

options are in play and you can go one road to the other, which road are you taken? I'm first going to straddle the fence and kind of take the easy way out and say that I think Alexander Volcanovsky has earned the right to choose at this point. If Alexander Volcanowski beats Yaya Rodriguez, I think it's up to him if he wants to fight somebody like Ilya or if he wants to chase Islam for the 155 pound title again, I would put the decision on him before I would give the option to the contender. if let's assume that Alexander Volkanowski is game and willing to take on Ilytiporia I'd be fine with it the fight I would prefer to see is Max Holloway versus

Ilya um I just think that that you're a fucking lunatic I love that fight I love that fight I want to see it max a fucking featherweight belt in he's the dude defending against the contenders if you're just going to have every contender go through him that's fine the champ and Volk can go to lightweight that's a fine solution But if we have a fucking featherweight champion, make him defend his title against contenders, not just Max every other time. The hell is wrong with you. There's no reason for Tabori to fight Max now.

He can fight him after he wins the belt and it's different. If he fights him now, just give Max the belt. Here's my reason. I don't believe that everything in this sport should be because the champion is lacking contenders. Max Holloway versus Ilya is a fun fight. And quite frankly, like, as long as Max is going to be in the division, I want to see him have fun fights. I'm not interested in seeing him fight Korean zombie.

That's not a real fight. I don't care about that. There are fucking thousand fun fights for Max so you can have. Great. Let's do it. Well, there's no other fight available. It's like, no, Toporia has done enough. Deporia deserves a title fight.

He's the next two to line. I'm not arguing against it. No, I'm not. This is insane. You're misrepresenting the argument. My argument isn't Ilya Tuporia doesn't deserve a title fight or needs to beat Max Holloway to get a title fight.

If they give him a title fight, great, no problem with it. I think that's fantastic. The fight I would prefer to see is Max Holloway versus Ilya and it has nothing to do with the idea of because that's the fight I want to see. Why does everything in the sport have to be?

So should Robert Whitaker also not fight anybody like there's there's there's a there's a situation happening where robert wittaker and max holloway are not allowed to fight anybody because god forbid they knock off a contender they god forbid they knock off a contender they're not allowed to fight anybody at their level how about that because god forbid they knock off somebody that was on their path to the title shot great that's fantastic if they beat them even more then they have even more momentum heading into the title fight i don't think that max holloway should be precluded from fighting top featherweights just because we're in desperate need of somebody

for Alexander Volcanowski. Would I have any gripe about Ilya fighting for the title? None, none whatsoever. Could do it tomorrow and I'd be happy. If knocking on wood that this doesn't happen, Yair was all of a sudden out of the picture for next week and they filled in with Ilya with it.

Would I have a problem with it? Nope, go get it. But I also don't have a problem with the idea of the top guys in the division fighting the top guys and not immediately being shoved into the title shot just because of the lack of contenders. It's fine. I'm completely fine with them fighting it out.

We need not point any further than Yariya Rodriguez himself, who three fights ago lost to Max Holloway, then won a weird but deserved fight against Brian Ortega with the injury, and then beat Josh Emmett and was right back into a title shot. So losing to Max Holloway is not some deterrent where you can never be back to the path to gold. I want to see Ilya versus Max Holloway

and I'm not ashamed to say it. This is the most insane take I've ever heard. This is the most insane take that's been uttered on this fucking show. Like, do you know why there's a dearth of contenders? Because you keep running interesting people into the uncrowned champion, the guy who is actually defending the top of the featherweight rankings. It's just like,

again one more time they give him the belt i'm fine with giving him the belt but if he's going to be beating all of the other dudes this is just like sweet okay so nog beats all the heavyweights fatal like no just let the champion defend against viable contenders but you're also assuming like anybody else who's dope let max fight the winner or loser of the bmf title i like that's sick max can do any number of things Like we don't need to do the Max versus Ilya thing. It's an assumption that he would lose, by the way. You're assuming that Ilya loses. You're assuming that Max is able to win the fight.

I'm assuming that he gets knocked off as a contender. You're assuming it creates. It creates the opportunity for no benefit. If he beats Max, I don't think that does any more. There's no more juice. They're not going to Spain. They can't even go to fucking Mexico when they have three champions. You think they're going to Spain?

That's nonsense. Tush. It's been eight years doing UFC Africa that still hadn't happened. They're not going Spain. So this is just, this is us just trying to spin our wheels because a portion of us really want Volk to fight Islam. And if that's fine, that's like,

that's okay. Make him do it lightweight and let Max be the featherweight champion. This is the most no-brainer of a featherweight title shot. The only world in which I accept a Max Holloway fight, Phillya, beats Volk and they run it back because Volk will get an immediate rematch. And then, then Ilya says,

I don't really want to stay on the sidelines for that long. I know that I'm up next. I got dibs, but I will now fight Max Holloway because I got, I want to agree. Anything else is a travesty and should not be. Sounds like we've arrived at a good outcome. That sounds good.

I'm down for that. Perfect. But Ilya's not going to do that. He's not going to do that. He's fine. He even said it himself, like, I'm cool.

I'll wait for the rest of my life for a title shot if I have to. That's smart. That's what you should do. The dude is living his life. He's got the girl. He's got the cars. He's got the sponsorships coming in. He's got more.

She's going to have way more money coming in. Yeah, she's on the M. A hour cutting the coldest promos of the year. I mean, she's incredible, his girlfriend. He's unbelievable. New York Rick, which fight do you want to see more? Elliott Teporia Max Holloway or Israel Adesania Boehicle? Much more Max Holloway and Elliot Toporia for sure.

All right. I had to throw that in there. I mean, that's probably the right answer, but I am morbidly curious. I'm taking both if you give me that. I'll take both. I'm morbidly curious about Bo Nicol. Let's run them both. Oh, my gosh.

Can we just have Max fight lightweights? Max just has so many fun lightweight fights. Like, what are we even doing? He doesn't want to go. Somebody just sit that man down and tell him that this is dumb and a waste of our time. We're never giving another title fight. You can drop back down. When, yeah, year wins and you can run that back.

But otherwise, just have fun. Like, I want to watch Max Holloway fight Tony Ferguson because I've wanted it for years, even though he's going to work Tony. Really want to see him fight Justin Gachie. Like, that's just my everything. There's so many more fun fights at 155 for Max. Be, fight Korean zombie, be done with featherway, and move on up. Let's have fun.

Holloway Oliver, too. Want to see that fight? Sign it out. I think Holloway dust, Chuckie Olives and rematch. Ooh, all right. Wow. All right. See, there's fun fights, but as long as he's a featherweight,

Elliot Seporia sounds like a good option. Elliot Seporia, Max Holloway, let's do it. This is an insane take. I cannot believe you argued that. I'm so excited that I just let that go. Real quick. I want to talk about Macy Barber's big win, Jed, because she came into the UFC, she got a big push, talked a big game, suffered some losses, bounced back with a couple of questionable splity wins. And then she goes in there on Saturday against Amanda Hebas.

And most people just felt like this is going to be another split decision fight. Maybe she wins it. Maybe she loses it. But this was not that. This fight was incredible. They beat the hell out of each other. And Barber just battered Amanda Hebas and ended up putting her away in the second round. this was quite the performance.

Jed, did Macy Barber change the way you view her future, no pun intended, in this flyweight division? She sure did. I mean, I've been pretty down on Macy Barber just because for certain things her early experience in the UFC was really bad, right? Like she came in talking all this greasiness, couldn't really back it up. And then when she suffered adversity, hindered it about as poorly as you possibly can. and she just looked to be one of those cautionary tales of this is somebody who's buying their hype this is not somebody who is going to put in the work and develop you know they have a baseline set of skills they have some potential here but they just don't have it between the years and in the ways

that matter for long-term development and slowly but surely she's taking up like she's improving there's never been a doubt that macy barbara has talent there's never been a doubt that she is rugged like she is willing to get in there and chuck them she does she does not have that sort of back down in her. The questions for me have always been developmentally. Like, are you going to advance in your career if the first time you take a loss, you blame it on a knee injury and all sorts of other things? And it's not your fault.

It's anyone else's fault but yours. I can't say for sure whether she, you know, has overcome all of that. I can say she's on a good run right now. That performance against Hebas, yes, she's much bigger than Hebas kind of functionally in there. the physicality certainly showed but she is improving she keeps getting better her work with team alpha male seems to be paying dividends so uh and she's still super young you know she's 25 like that's that's younger than ilia to peria and this is a division that's not nearly as as as hard to make headway in as you know men's featherweight so she still has a lot of potential if she can keep improving

if she can kind of set the ego at the door and just do the things to continue getting better I don't think she'll ever be a champion probably. But I mean, that's even bold to say, given how young she is and kind of where she's already at in her career. Rick, what did you think of Barber's performance and did it sort of sway the way you viewed her heading into the fight in terms of her future and what she could do at 125 here? No, it didn't change anything for me, but I was impressed by the performance. But I've, you know, like, let's just look at the reality of the situation. And Jed kind of like alluded to it and touched on it. she's extremely young, which means she has a lot of opportunity to grow,

but she also has a lot of opportunity to potentially climb the mountain in a shallow division. She can get to the top with not a lot of fights. So she's not going to have to develop that much, to be completely honest. She's a really tough fighter. She's a good athlete, and she's continuing to add to her skills. So with those two things on her side, the division as it currently stands on the youth, she's going to get a few cracks probably. She's just going to continue to make that climb,

even if she suffers a setback. It is nearly instantaneous how quickly it can be turned around. And that didn't change for me. Like, you know, now let's see her against the true cream of the crop, the upper upper echelon of the division. But yeah, she's going to be in this game for quite a bit. So I'm not concerned about her future prospects. I think she'll be hanging around for a while.

That was a great, great performance. She got it done and we'll see what's next for her. I suggested Lauren Murphy. gone on to the next one. Another rugged versus rugged fight. I'm into that. So let us move on to this weekend, which I know Jed is so excited to talk about.

The point for round three goes to... Barn burner, baby. While I respect New York Rick sticking to his principles, I got to give it to Jed. It's two to one. Thank goodness, because I don't have any juice for this next category. Which is what I figured.

I figured if there's positivity to be had, it's not coming from the right side of your screen right now. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice, yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes.

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How do we follow up? UFC Jacksonville? How do we follow up getting in front of a live audience, a big crowd? We go back to the apex. And in the main event, boy is it middleweighty, Sean Strickland versus Abus Maga Madoff, five rounds in the UFC's 185 pound division. New York, let's start with you, buddy.

You're the positive presence here. This is the go home show for, international fight week. This is the last card before UFC 290. Their Super Bowl week where it's capped off with their big card that they're going to push the hell out of and media is going to be all over the place. They're going to be everywhere. Grade this card on paper. UFC Vegas 76, New York, Rick. Six out of ten? Six out of ten we'll go with. It's watchable. It's watchable. Look, there's no doubt. The main event lacks juice. Let's let's just call that what it is. It is, it is, it is not a particularly compelling main event.

But throughout the card, there's enough kind of names and storylines that, like, I'm not super mad at it. I mean, I'm interested to see how Kevin Lee looks in his return, right? Like, even on another, like, he used to be a UFC headliner on, on other cards. That could be potentially interesting. There are some fighters on here that, that I'm interested to watch. Dawson and Isma Gulov, that's a great fight. Like, I'm okay with it.

I'm, I'm six out of ten. I'm not going to pan it. but I'm also not like doing backflips to watch it. But six out of ten. Jed, I'm sure you're probably going higher than a six here, right? No. No, God, no.

Six actually might be, I'm looking at it right now. Six might be right. I might go a little closer to five. We're in the five to six range. There's the co-main event doing a lot of heavy lifting. I love the Isma Gula of Dawson fight. I've been super high on Grant Dawson.

And Isma Gulov is very good. I have serious questions about whether he's going to try to be good since he retired previous to this. And then was like, well, I have one more. I guess I'll fight it. So that doesn't strike me as the best way to enter a fist fight. But what do I know? There's like just enough pieces. I have a morbid curiosity to see what Kevin Lee looks like, though I suspect it's very poor, given what we've seen from him lately.

I mean, women's featherweight alive and kicking Yonnas Santos Carol Hosa. We thought the featherweight division was gone, Mike Heck, with the man who is retired. And lo and behold, we still got them going, still got the scrapping happening. And then there is the smallest piece of me. If you think of a pie chart, I'm going to steal a joke, and you take the donated to charity piece, if the pie chart is what people would do if they found a million dollars, you take that size of a piece. That's how much interest I have in Alexander Romanov and seeing if maybe, just maybe, King Kong still has something because he's looked really bad this last two times out. But there was a

time when when I was excited about it. It was like, oh, a youngish heavyweight who can grapple. Now Jailton Almeida has says taken all of that momentum, but maybe just maybe Romanov can find it again. So five, six, five and a half maybe feels about right. It's only 12 fights too. That helps. I like that. I like that. It's a 4 p.m. start time for the prelims and the 7 p.m. main card.

Love that. Kevin Lee is probably the most interesting thing on this card. To me, most intriguing thing, because I just want to see how he looks against a pretty good fighter, but I'm not sure how good he is. So is this the right test to come back to? Very intrigued by that. And by the way, to your featherweight points,

I was listening to a little bit of No Bet Spard this morning. The only reason this is a featherway fight is because Carol Hose is stepping in on short notice for Macy Chesson. Otherwise, this should be Bannamweight Heaven and we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. Hey, look, the featherweight. The Keller Her way. We have one more featherweight fight, women's featherweight fight on the book. So it's still alive, us true believers, the stands out here. We're keeping it alive, keeping that energy up.

So I have to ask this because I feel like the next. few weeks are going to be pointing in this direction. Like every fight car that happens, we're going to veer back to this. And Bo Nickel has suddenly emerged and we're not going to go down that rabbit hole again. My mentions have just taken an ass whooping over the last week and a half. So we're good there. But near quick, I want to go to you. The stakes in this fight between Sean Strickland and Abis Maga Madoff. Like, it's a random fight. Sean Strickland was asked about it. He was like, look, the money was right. I need somebody to fight. So like, I'm not going to say no. So don't blame me for this. But what happens if Sean Strickland wins this fight? Is he, is he in the driver's seat for

is he? Like, he has to be, right? Like, we have to obviously wait to see what happens July 8th, because of DDP and Robert Werdaker beat six shades of crap out of each other and neither is going to be, you know, better for where to turn around to fight in Sydney two months later. Could the UFC, is Sean like in the driver seat? It may not be for long, but is he, is he in the driver's if he wins? And what happens if Abis wins? Like, what's the fallout of that? Yeah, if Abis wins, I don't think there's anything. There is any fallout from that. I don't, I don't think anything moves. If Sean Strickland wins, is he in the driver seat? I guess technically by default, I'd almost call it like, I guess that's the Sean Strickland position. Like, the default

is to hang around the top and be able to hop into any opportunity that comes available, but never be the guy that they really want to push the entire chips into the middle with. But sure, Yeah, he'll be hanging around. He's definitely not with everything booked in the driver's seat. Like Robert Whitaker or DDP are getting the next shot if they come out relatively unscathed, that they can make that turnaround. I assume that they will do everything in their power, even if they are a little dinged up, because Robert Whitaker is looking at maybe I won't get this opportunity again.

It seems like almost circumstance where they need Israel out of Sonia to headline a card and they need an opponent for him. I would imagine if I'm Robert Whitaker, I don't care what the prep. looks like I'm going to try and shove myself in there. And for DDP, that's a custom made rivalry. That thing's been brewing for a long time and it seems like all roads are

pointing to it. But in the case that they're both kind of out of commission in a way that they really can't turn around, I guess you could do worse than Sean Strickland in that scenario. It's not a fight I'm clamoring for. I made my position very clear. I'd much rather see Bonnickle if he goes out there

and gets a win, turn around and fight Israel, Asana. It's a much more compelling matchup. I don't imagine Sean Strickland is going to be anything but a huge underdog to Israel of Sanya. It's not a compelling fight for me. But yeah, he's doing the Sean Strickland thing. He's doing just enough to hang around the top.

And if somebody doesn't want to take an opportunity, he is the first call and he always answers it. So kudos to him for being in that position and putting himself there, but not something that I'm compelled by. Jed, we know with these main events sometimes, it's, you know, we try to, you know, we try to work our way into it. And then it's like, I want to see what happens and then just see, see what the fallout is. It's almost like I want to get from point A to point B.

And I'll mean this is a disrespectful, disrespectful take towards both fighters because they sign the dial-line. They're going to get in there and punch each other in the face for potentially 25 minutes. This fight, I just kind of want to see the aftermath of it. Like, I don't even really need to see the, because the matchmaking is just so weird. And I kind of have an idea of where this is going to go. Like if Magamatov doesn't knock him out in the first five minutes of this fight, I feel like we're going to get a Sean Stricklandee

unanimous decision here and then he's going to cut the promo and call it Izzy and so forth and so on. But if Abis wins, like, I am curious, like, how the UFC will proceed? Like, will they push him? Will they, what will they do with him? With Strickland, I feel like

he is at least going to be in position for a title shot depending on what happens July 8. So what do you make of the stakes here and just kind of that point A to point B from the fight to the aftermath, I feel like this is one of those ones. I kind of want to see the aftermath first and then watch the fight afterwards, if that

makes sense. Oh, yeah. I mean, this fight, any interest in this fight is not in the fight itself. It's just what the hell happens. If Abis wins, they're going to, I think they'll push him just because Sean Strickland's like a top 10 guy. So Abis will move into that. His two UFC fights will be that very quick knockout of Dustin Stolfis.

And I assume if he wins a cool knockout of Sean Strickland, because I like you, think that that's the most likely outcome. Either he wins there. Either he wins early doing something cool or Strickland stores Strickland's all over him. But there's also the chance that Abis just kind of slips on a banana peel because he's done that in his career as well. So I think the interesting thing is what happens and not how, not the form, but, but. But, you know, just what is, what is it, right? If Strickland wins, I guess he's in line for a title shot. This is one of those New Yorkerick title shots of, well, we got nothing else to do for the champion.

And here's somebody new because Strickland just lost two before losing the Ymovav. And I mean, if I think the winner of Whitaker, DDP just gets a title fight over Strickland, assuming they could make the turnaround. If they can't make the turnaround for Australia, then maybe Strickland slides in. But it feels weird to say that he's probably in line, but like, shit, man, I guess he is. Who else?

Who else is there right now? So it's weird. There are no stakes in this fight, Mike. I don't know what the stakes are, but I'm confident that whatever they are, the very small stakes. We're talking four ounce filets. We're not talking to Porta House here.

Fair enough. All right. That's UFC Vegas 76. There'll be more. If you just are clamoring for more, there will be more tomorrow. There will be a preview show live here on this here channel talking about the ins and outs of this card that we did not mention. So with that said, the point for round four goes to the champion. New York Rick, it is two to two.

And that means it's time for the knocker around. One question will decide it all. Neither individual knows what this question is. And as a matter of fact, they haven't known what any of the questions were before we started this. your program. So it just fits right into the gimmick. So New York, Rick, you are the BTL champion. Do you want to go first or do you want to pass this over to Jen Michoud? I will always elect to go first. Okay. So I want to make this very, very clear. This question has nothing to do with business and ratings and profit. This is nothing to do with any of that stuff. But we are, it is,

We have today and then tomorrow is the last day of June. So we will be officially at the midway point of 2023 for everything, including the mid-year report for the world of mixed martial arts. Now, obviously we have the big promotions. We have the UFC. We have Bellatoria, PFL. A lot of people feel like we don't give one enough attention, but they are certainly in this mix.

There's obviously the fight circuses that get a lot of talk, KSW, etc. So with all these promotions, and we're talking about the product that they are putting out New York, Rick. What they have done, have they gone from point A to point B in a nice way? Obviously, the UFC is king. So we're trying to take the business and the profit out of this conversation altogether. Who is the mid-year promotional MVP for mixed martial arts right now? Which promotion is putting on the best product thus far in 2023?

One minute on the clock, go. Do you hate me? Mike, do you hate me? Are you just trying to get me every single time I come on this show to just say how pathetic it is. All these guys are fighting for number two and putting out graphics and proclaiming themselves to be number two and ultimately not moving the needle in any significant way. I don't know how many times I can say it. They're really not having much of an effect. Nothing is happening. The UFC is continuing to, you said remove profits from it, but they also have the roster of the best fighters and continue to have the roster of the best fighters and just continue. The UFC train never stops. I don't know how I could have an answer other than the UFC. I mean, the PFL signing Francis Inganu is great. And that's a really nice signing. They've also got a season going on where they've introduced Shane Burgos

and now he's in the playoffs. Sure, momentum behind him. But, I mean, it's just like nothing is changing. Nothing is moving. If you're doing a graph, they've stayed like this for all of their entire existences. And the UFC has been on top. And it's just been straight lines across. Nothing is changing.

Nothing is moving. It's always the UFC. I mean, look, that's the safe and smart answer. I didn't know if we're going to go a little crazy here. I saw some debate on social media. Some saying that, you know, UFC is the best fighters. They're making the most money. But, you know, this promotion is actually putting out the better actual product in terms of fans' viewership.

Like, if you watched all four religiously, would you still say the same? That's kind of the question here. So, Jed, we will go to you. Do you agree with New York, Rick? Is it the UFC? Because quite frankly, someone asked me this earlier, which is what kind of got me here. What would I grade the UFC so far in 2023?

I'm at a C plus right now. They're just doing things. And people are watching. And that's great. But in terms of the product they present, I mean, I think it's going to pick up in the second half with the slates. But what they've done the first half? I'd say it's a C plus, maybe a B minus if we're being generous.

But what about these other promotions, Jed? If we're talking about who has put out the best product for viewers who tune in to watch, is it the UFC? Is it somebody else? Who's the mid-year MVP? One minute on the clock, go. So this is a fun question. Really like it.

So thank you, Mike, on that. The UFC isn't the answer, and it's for a very specific reason. It's because their highs much higher. They have just bombarded us with so much content that so much of it's forgettable that proportionally, those highs just, they're not hitting as much. I think there's a clean argument for Bellator here because they've given us some very big moments this year. They've had some stinkers, but fewer compared to the just onslaught of them the UFC is offering,

but we're getting Fador's retirement, patchy mix, Sergio Pettis against Pit bull just the other weekend. They've hit some really big high notes. But the answer, Mike, I think you knew this as soon as you came to me. As soon as you said, Jed, I need to know who's the best promotion in mixed martial arts right now. It's the same answer it's been for three years. Mike, it's fight circus because again, one, we've got a fight circus event coming up tomorrow on fight TV. Make sure you tune in Fight Circus 7. But Fight Circus 6, we had Bob Sapp and Quinn Rampage Jackson, Simey's boxing the promoter.

Who else is doing that, Mike? Nobody. That's why they're the best. I was waiting for the horns and there you have it. Jed coming through thinking outside the box. Yes. Fight circus is back this weekend. So let's we forget. It's not just who knew literally nobody. I didn't know until yesterday. Now you do. That's why you tune in because I will tell you invite circuses back guys. Don't you worry. Did I say that Tyson Fury is going to be there? Sure is. I don't think he's not fighting himself. No, he's going to be in the building. How about that? Tune in. Tune in. Vote now. You can vote in the in the comment section. Who do you think wins?

Is it Jedmishu regaining the title or is New York Rick's reign of terror going to continue? Obviously, it'll be a big show next week with UFC 290 coming about. And I'm sure there's going to be so many storylines from UFC Vegas 76 that we're just going to have to dive into one by one. But we'll talk about that more tomorrow, the preview show. We'll have a heck of morning tomorrow. We'll have the People's Pre-Fight Show at a nice, tidy 3.30 p.m. Eastern Time. We love that. Post-fight show, AK, and I'll be back on Sunday.

What's a matchmaking? Another episode of On to the Next One. onwards and upwards to international fight week, UFC 290, the fight I am looking forward to the most of all the fights that are on the books right now. The main event, Volcanowski versus Jaya Rodriguez. I love the Brandon Moreno Alexander Pantosia fight, which is getting no love, no talk at all. And that fight's a great one too.

So don't forget about that one, ladies gentlemen. So with that said, we'll bring in the unbelievable E.KC line, whose taste in music is just impeccable because we were jamming, just jamming before we went, we went live here. Just getting after it. Casey, what's up, buddy? Whoa, just like Wilson Phillips said, hold on.

Guys, I mean, keep this simple. This is not hard. Just vote for Jed, and let's get on with it. We have things to do. This is a close one? complicated. The vote, much like last week, is equally as close. It is super close.

I'm like, you got to get every last vote in. It is very close. Speed it up, folks. Come on. I got to give it a little more time. Come on. Speed it up. Press the Jed button and let's get this done.

All right. Do what's right and let's go. He's shirt. He's trying to see a magical, we'll strike twice here. where people in a great... How about Yayor Rodriguez beating Alexander Volkanowski? I mean, that's... I can't wait for next week show.

I can't wait for next week show. I do think this fight's going to be incredibly close and very competitive. Like, Yair is just such an interesting style where he might lose a fight, but it's like he never really loses the war. And the fallout of that fight is going to be super interesting. Volksold. It's going to be super interesting. Folks old.

35 in September. Yeah, that's like by far the oldest featherweight champion in history. Yeah. It's by like four years. It's a lot. All right. I think we're good.

All right, we're good. Who gets it done, Casey? Your winner today with 51% of the votes is and still New Yorker. Oh, the humble man does it again. Golly. It just keeps working. It just keeps working.

Vote for AK. Just hurry up and vote for AK. Vote for Jed. Hit the Jed button. Nails it. And no one sees it coming. The humble nature just sneaks. Just sneaks in there.

Unbelievable. New York, Rick, the people have spoken and they have sided with your humble nature. How do you react to this? You're muted. We can't hear you. There we go. Sorry, sorry. I don't even know what I'm doing.

As I've said, every time I've won, you people have messed up gravely. You botched the decision once again. Jed was the rightful winner there. I humbly accept, though, because, you know, what an honor it was to spend this time with you guys. Casey, Jed, Mike, it's always a pleasure. The fans, you know, next week, hopefully be back. You guys can do a little bit better and pick the other person. And we'll have a great time.

But yeah, love you guys. So much fun to spend time with you. Thank you for having. Jed, we might have to run this back. This could be a mani and a K. Robbery Review. And I feel like we just have to have you back next week to give your Yayae Rodriguez and your UFC 290 takes. But your thoughts on just losing this split decision here.

Look, I've said many times I don't believe in immediate rematches. So in case I don't get the call next week, Yiair's going to kick him a bunch, Volk'd unlike to be kicked. And he's old. He's so old. He's just too old to do it. Yeah, he's going to do the damn thing, been saying it for a while.

I'm standing on this corner, and I'll be here until such time as I'm proven wrong. Fair enough. Well, see what happens next week. See, this is episodic television, people. All right, Casey, you can hit the music. Thank you very much for your production skills. And we will be back next week to talk more.

UFC 290, the thought of UFC Vegas 76, and whatever the frig else is going on in the world that makes martial arts, It'll be something. It'll be something. We'll see what two billionaires challenge each other to a fist fight this week. And we'll talk about it next week right here between the links.

For Casey on the ones and twos for Jed. New York, Rick. I am Mike Heck. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn takes you home. Back next week. Good night, everybody. Zucked by Arm bar. And I'm a fighting production on the Vox Media Network.

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