MMA Fighting - BTL | Nate Diaz vs. Khamzat Chimaev, Oliveira-Makhachev Leads Stacked UFC 280, UFC London, More

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

Nate Diaz has his final fight on the books, and it will be in the main event of UFC 279 against the undefeated Khamzat Chimaev. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel gives their reaction to the headliner of the #UFC’s September PPV event and if this was the way to go. In addition, topics include the loaded up UFC 280 lineup thus far — which includes Charles Oliveira vs. Islam Makhachev for the vacant lightweight title, Aljamain Sterling vs. T.J. Dillashaw for the bantamweight title, Petr Yan vs. Sean O’Malley, and Beneil Dariush vs. Mateusz Gamrot — the unfortunate ending of the UFC LongI sland main event between Yair Rodriguez and Brian Ortega and what that means for the featherweight division, a look at UFC London this Saturday, and more. This week, Jed Meshew handles the hosting duties as MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck steps in to challenge MMA Mania’s Drake Riggs for the BTL title. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Drake Riggs: @DrakeRiggs_ Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Live from MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, Mr. No Gray Area, Jed. Meshu. Wow. Oh my goodness. I did not anticipate that. Welcome everybody to Between the Links. I am Jed Mishu.

I am not Mike Heck because today we have a first, aside from getting my own intro from the one, the only, the voice of so many things and the voice of the MMA Fighting Network, Esther Lynn. We're here with a big first because this Between the Links is a special edition, ladies and gentlemen. I am so excited to introduce to you the competitors today, starting with the man who usually sits in this chair,

the man who has held this chair who created this show and is now coming to lay the smackdown. Mr. Mike, Heck. Mike, how we're doing? Everybody, I did not ask for this. I didn't want to bring out Boston Mike. I didn't voluntarily decide to become the champion of my own show because I would never, ever do that. But when somebody calls me out, I got to step up.

And Drake Riggs, you are my friend. You are the champion. And when this is over, I hope we can still grab a beverage or two together on the road. But while your long flowing hair ended up on some barbershop or salon floor a few weeks ago, the rest of you belongs to me. Today, you woke up, BTL champion. Tomorrow, you'll be on the Wikipedia page, one spot below mine. Let's go.

Wow. Boston, Mike, throwing the gauntlet down. Mike, if the Boston accent doesn't come out today, I'm going to just give a default win to Drake. So I'm going to need some of that, especially when you're all geared up like that. But the man who I guess gets to be champion, gets to call himself champion, befittingly wearing a Bill Belichick-esque hoodie as he sits across from the one and only boss.

Oh, he took the hoodie off and really went for it. Oh, wow. Oh, I see you got the PFL. Swag, Mr. Drake Riggs. Yes. What is up, Mr. PFL Commissioner? Good to see you in a new chair today. And as for that mass hole on the other side of things today, hope he's got his pocket full of quad as ready

because he's going to need him down at the Packie when I'm done with him. Let's go, Boston, Mike. Bring it on. That's the worst accent I've ever heard. Don't ever do that again. Do it as much as you want, Drake, because this is already the best episode this show's ever had. Let's just be honest.

So we've got four rounds of fighting ahead of us. And it is important that we start with the biggest news of the week. I didn't do anything fun like Flip a Coin. I just decided that because it's Mike's show, Mike gets to go first. So, Mike, the biggest news of the week by far of probably the last month or two, Nate Diaz finally got himself a fight. We talked about it on last week's episode. Nate, you know, went on the Ariel Hawani show,

did a whole special app where he talked about being unable to get a fight. Finally, you know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but it is a tough, tough, greasy out form in Hamzaa Chamaa. They will be headlining UFC 279. Mike, let's start with you. And what are your initial impressions to this fight? Kind of just talk me through how you feel it all went down. And is this the right fight for Nate to go out on?

I love everything about this. Everything. And I said it this morning on heck of a morning and I'll say it again here. It's amazing how people react to. things because for the last few months, six months, maybe a year, however long this has been on the beat. A large contingency of MMA fans have been on social media chanting with their keyboards. Let Nate fight. Let Nate fight. Free Nate Diaz. Let the man fight. And then he gets this fight with Hamzaa Chamaif and it's come to anybody but him, anybody but him. This is insane to me.

This whole thing has potential to work out for everybody. Now for the UFC, business-wise, this is going to do big numbers on pay-per-view. Now, people watching right now, you could say you're not going to watch it, but you're full of crap. You're going to watch it. There is a small downside for the UFC, and we'll get to that in a moment. But for Diaz, he asked for this fight. He wanted this fight. And for those saying that this is the UFC putting Diaz out to pasture, maybe in their eyes,

that's how they're going to present this. Maybe that's what they want to believe. But that's not what's happening here. And Shemayev, well, he doesn't need anything more to get himself over in my eyes, although there are people who feel like he lost a bit of momentum in that last fight, which was a decision win over one of the best welterweights on planet Earth in just his fifth UFC fight and just his 11th fight as a pro, Hamzaa Shamaev shouldn't have lost any momentum in that fight against Gilwood Burns.

And instead, he gets put in this position where he is heavily favored, but all of the pressure, all of it is on Hamzaat Shamaev. Diaz can always find a way to make his stock rise. and as long as he doesn't get run over in two minutes, that's what's going to happen here. And if this fight makes it through seven or eight minutes, things could get real interesting. And what if Nate wins?

What if this man wins? What if he weathers the storm and he beats Hamzaa Tchaimai. That would just be the most MMA thing that could ever happen. And then he will dance his stocked-in-ass over to the squared circle where he's going to box Jake Paul and make a floppy-die-gillion dollars. Now, for the UFC, the downside is very small, and it's very short term. Shemayev, who they're building up to be a star,

takes a little bit of a step back. He's out of the title picture for now. He's out of the Usman discussion for now, but winning changes everything. And one win later, they'll put him right back in that spot and they'll build them up to be the man. Dana White will have to go to the back

and answer a couple questions about it. Then he'll put Diaz over in hopes that he may come back in the future and Dana will be pissed for like an hour and a half, but then he'll reach into his tissue box full of hindoos to wipe away those tears. So short-term potential pain for the UFC, but very little. The only risky thing here is that Shemayev just in two minutes.

Other than that, this has a lot of upside. And I don't understand why anybody's complaining about this. Wow. So Mike coming with the hot takes that I usually bring, Drake, do you agree? Do you think this is an all-upside proposition for the UFC? Or is there some risk here? And is there risk for Nate? because he is not fighting an easy matchup by any means.

Well, yeah, I mean, the risk is obviously in the match of itself because this is on paper an absolute nightmare for Nate, just from what we've seen historically. I mean, you look at practically any good wrestler, decent wrestler, I may even argue, does pretty well against Nate. And Chimae has proven to be quite good, and, I mean, I'd argue he's already beaten some better defensive grapplers,

at least wrestlers and whatnot, than Nate. I mean, Lee Jingleong, probably a good one there. And I could see this by going, very much like that. So as Mike said, unless Nate gets destroyed in two minutes, which is very, very possible.

It seems kind of crazy just because it's Nate, but look at what Hamzot's doing to people and especially people or somebody of the style like Nate who has not historically done good against, you know, a fighter like Chimae. But I think that,

you know, there's a lot of great points that Mike did make in terms of this being just a completely high upside, you know, fight to make and business strategy here, unless Nate is to magically pull off an up. upset, which I think is a very, very low chance. So everything is trending in the right way. Because for Chameh, this is already a guy who has become a very big star and to beat somebody like

Nate just makes him that much more of a, you know, relevant name, not that he isn't already, but boosts his casual, you know, star power and especially being in a main event, his first main event with the UFC, already building this narrative of, oh, Nate's last fights, all these things that go into it should be an easy matchup. Like, it doesn't help at all with hardcores or meritocracy. Like this fight in terms of that does nothing for Hobbsot. Like it's a step backwards. He's facing a guy who's one in three, one and three in his last four, lost two in a row. Like Nate wasn't even main event in his last fight. I mean, that's very clear. I don't even need to mention that part because the fight that made sense was probably Colby if you weren't

going to give him a title shot already. But we don't know what's going on. But we do know what's going on with Colby, but he's kind of staying quiet about things obviously at the moment. So that obviously wasn't going to happen. It's a pretty good, great case. scenario for the UFC in terms of business. And the only bad thing I think would be if Nate does pull it off. But, you know, again, I don't think there's a very good chance of that. And if he does, well, hey, at least they tried and it's still created a great amount of buzz. And it kind of makes things more interesting for Hamzot coming back if that was to happen. And, you know, we'll make people question, all right, maybe he wasn't for real. Sure, he got past Gilbert Burns and whatnot,

but he lost an idea. Like, this is crazy. Like, it'll make you real. It'll make you really. invested in his next fight. I don't want to say more so that if he wins, because again, he'll just have more eyeballs on him and you know he's going to say a lot. He's already saying this is going to be the funeral of Nate Diaz, at least his UFC funeral. You know, he's not going to actually kill the man. I mean, he could in there. It's a very bad matchup, like I said, but I think there are a lot of positives. I agree with Mike on that. Okay, Drake. So Mike obviously went deep down into the here's what could happen if Nate wins. I'm going to ask you to do the same. Let's say that we're,

we're living in the fantasy world that Mike has created for us and that Nate, Nate, you know, pulls off the arm bar off his back or whatever. What happens to Nate next? You talked about Hamzat. Where's Nate go from there, obvious, other than obviously out of the UFC? I mean, is that obvious, though? Because then if he beats Hamzat, why would the UFC not want to at least try to keep him around? And, you know, they could even try and hand him a title shot right there.

And it doesn't seem like he cares about any of that stuff anymore, obviously. but who knows, you know, just how enticing something might be for Nate after, you know, a great win that would surely make him feel really good and be back in good graces. Not to say they're on bad terms or anything, but I think that would make a possibility of him returning much more likely to obviously if he loses. But what would happen if he does win and goes on? Man, it's so interesting. You know, we talked about it last week with the dynamic of the things that he was saying and how he doesn't care about the money, which is where there's going to be more of that, presumably and most likely, outside, even though he said that the UFC's offered so much around Connor level.

If there was to be anybody more than him, it would be Connor. I feel like the most likely case would be, you know, that Jake Paul match would be the first thing, depending, I guess, on what happens with his match that's coming up here. But he has so many more options, I think, and not that that wouldn't be there even if he loses, but that just makes it obviously much more interesting and exciting and a big deal for people. I don't know. He's still just in such a weird spot to me, right? Because it seems like his interests are still kind of hard to fully decipher. Like I believe in when he says it's not about the money. Otherwise, you know, I think we'd be seeing some other directions here. But I feel like everything has just pointed to him going in boxing, whether it is against Jake Paul or, you know, who knows, Logan. And he's wrapped up with WWE now. But something like that. He was already at the last match with Tyrone Woodley, right? So that just seems all too likely. even win or lose, but with a win. And again, it depends on what happens with Jake,

but I think we can be pretty safe with that being the immediate future anyway. Long term, I really have no idea, man. It's, it's, I don't see him going back to the UFC, though, if he does leave. Like I mentioned last week, I just, I don't see that happening if he does get out of there. Mike, we, this is a fun world to live in. I want to live in the world where Nate Diaz gets his first relevant win in a lifetime. It happens to be around Dr. Jamev. So let's stay in pretend land and this happens.

Do you think that this is, does that make it more likely that the UFC just says, screw it, back up to Brinks truck, here's all the money. And Kamara Usman title shot for you, Nate Diaz, let's do the damn thing? Or do you think that this is just cut and dry, he's gone? I think it's a combination of both Jed. I think the UFC will try to invest in him. But I think they obviously understand that he has to go box Jake first. and they're going to be rooting for Nate to go out there and beat Jake.

And if he does go out there and beat Jake, which I don't know if he will, he probably won't, but let's just say he beats Shemiah and then he goes and beats Jake Paul in boxing. Then the brinkstrup that you backed up, you're going to have to back up a second one, maybe even a third one. So Nate is going to continue to bet on himself, as he should in this type of situation. It has been a nightmare for him to get to this point and finally gets a fight that he asked for, gets to headline a pay-per-view, he's going to go out in style. And the fact that the UFC is sort of giving him what he wants and they're giving him a headline spot.

They're doing it in Vegas. They're not doing this in Abu Dhabi. They're not offering a BS fight that they know he's not going to take in a time frame. They know he's not going to take it in. I think they found some sort of a happy medium here. And I think depending on how the build to this fight goes, if it all goes down, if it goes down in a competitive way and Nate's stock continues to rise. And he's still somewhat respectful of the promotion on the way out and doesn't say F. Dana,

and F the UFC and all this stuff. I think the door is still open for him to come back. Now, if he beats him, I have it beats Jake Paul, the UFC's going to offer, they're going to back up four to five brink structure to try to bring him back for that Connor fight, maybe for an Ousman fight. Who the hell knows?

But if Nate Diaz, even is competitive in this fight, they're going to try to back up a brink truck. And then if he goes on and boxes Jake Paul, it's even somewhat competitive. We're even talking about this. Maybe Nate somehow won, but didn't get a decision. Either way, Nate's stock continues to rise. And like I said earlier, the only thing that stops this from happening is if Nate just gets trucked in like two minutes.

Nate weather's a storm in the first, makes it to the second, flips him the birds off the stool heading into round two, makes it to the third. And then if he goes to the distance, like all of that is a win for Nate. All of that is a win. So anything outside of him just getting trucked in the first half of the first round is going to be a win for Nate. So either way, I think he's going to be in a good spot and we'll see what happens. So bring Struck, back it up, but you might have to back up a second one. Muted? I understand it's your first day hosting, but yeah.

I can't hear you. My bad. I mute because I've got stuff going on behind me. I was just saying that I loved everything that's going on here. Hand up, guys. I've never hosted this show before. But I'm going to have to get used to it because our first round point, gave me the drum roll, Casey.

It's going to go to Mr. Mike Heck. The man, I mean, look at him. Look at him right here. Let's go. It's like flipping a switch, baby. Let's go. Now I'm ready for round two. The hat is backwards.

The shades are back on the head. Let's go, Drake. Let's go. Drake might need to go full rally cap mode here because he's behind the eight ball to start. It's week two of Canadian tires early Black Friday sale. These prices won't go lower this year. So you're lying on the floor? Save up the 50% November 13th to 20th.

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this week. And while the Nate Chimaia fight is obviously the biggest fight announcement, we had an infinite number of other fights, and seemingly all of them were on UFC 280. So just a quick rundown of the fights that are happening at UFC 280. There is the main event, lightweight title fight between Charles Oliver and Islamachachev. There is Balal Mohammed Sean Brady is still there. The Al J. Dillishal co-main event. And then, you know, just Benial Dary, you should. Matush Gamrot.

Oh, and Pyotryan, Sean Amali, an absolutely stacked card. Drake, let's start with you. Outside of the lightweight main event, which is the best division in the sport and obviously the best fight of any of these bunch. What is the fight at UFC 280 that is the most interesting to you at this point in time? I think it is probably between Aldo Dillashan Daryush Gamrots. I lean as much as I love the Banimate Division, Jed, I might lean towards Darryush and Gamrodot in this case

because I always love kind of these unofficial tournaments that it kind of looks like we're getting, at least could be similar to UFC 276 with Strickland and Pereira and Adasanya Canineer. Like that was pretty much what that was, the foreman there. And in this case, I could see the winner of that fight going on to fight the winner of the main event.

Obviously, a lot of factors in play there. But Darius, we were expecting him to maybe get rebut looked there with Islam Makachev, at least that's what Dana was saying he wanted, assuming that Connor must still be healing because Oliver was all about that one, even though he's open to fighting anybody as well. And this was also a matchup here. And with Gamrod, you know, coming off that win over Sarukian, who down the totem pole, but a very high level, high, you know, very talented guy in the lightweight division.

And some people think he lost that one, but Gamrod's still very, very good. It just shows you how good that those two guys are, really. And then taking on Darius, who is on a great winning streak himself, hasn't fought since what was it sometime last year, that Tony Ferguson fight feels like so long ago. And, you know, he's been chomping at the bit to get in there and prove himself was talking about the Pori matchup potentially. Like Dariu's in a really weird spot now. And I think that this is a great opportunity for him to kind of remind people and prove, or I guess just fully remind people that he is one of the best in the world and especially on this platform here, where the title will also be on the line win. And he's been talking about fighting these guys, too. And people have belief in him.

Like what Paul Felder was saying, he thinks he has a better shot against Olivera than Makachev. Like, there are people who think in the sport that Darius is at least, has the potential to be a champion at this stage. And against someone like Gamron, who has already proven himself, you know, internationally, his KSW champion and doing great in the UFC now, he can really shake things up here. Like, he's not super far down the line, but he's a part of that new blood in the UFC LIWI division that we're seeing, this influx of, you know, talent coming up here.

And so for this fight, and they're very interesting styles matchup, too, with both of them. And with the factors of Gamrod being the more active of the two, but Darayush being around longer. And you could argue more proven, at least in the UFC, obviously. I don't know, that one really is really intriguing to me. And I could see it being one where, oh, Daryush is so close. You know, we see these cases all the time with these guys who have these great winning streaks. And for some reason, something doesn't line up where they don't get their title shot. And then they lose when they're right there.

Like this could be that one where Gamrod jumps over and could go on, I guess, in theory, to fight the winner of the main event there with Oliver and Mokachev. So I just love me that dynamic of a tournament feel, even though the UFC will never do that at this stage and won't say that that's what's going to happen. But that's how I'm looking at it. So I like that a little bit more than the Bandaway title fight, even though that should be very good too. I just feel like it will be less competitive than this one as well. Wow. I intentionally took a dig at you because I just assume you'd pick the two Bannamweight fights instead of correctly acknowledging that the lightweight bouts are the most interesting. Mike, you're a man who also values the Bannon Wates. Do you agree with Drake?

Do you think that is Benile Darius Matush-Matouche Gamrott the low-key banger of this extremely exciting card? I actually think the title fight between Sterling and Dillishah is more low-key than this fight. because, I mean, I got to kind of experience it with my own ears this morning. Everyone wanted to talk about all of these other fights that were announced. And no one, except for like the last caller on Heck of a Morning, actually mentioned Sterling Dillishaw being on this card, which is really interesting to me. At first, I agreed with Drake that outside of the actual main event,

it was this Gamrot Daryush fight. And the more I thought about it, the more my heart continued to break for B'Neil Daryush. And here's why. If he loses, naturally, he's out of the conversation and Gamrod jumps him over. That's obvious Drake just said that. But even if he wins, I still don't think he's going to get a title shot. I still don't even think he's second in line.

I think he's probably third in line in the UFC's eyes, which is a bunch of bull crap, if we're being honest, because a lot of people felt like he has already done everything he needs to do to get a title fight. But if Olivera beats Islam Makachev, there's a very good chance that Olivera is going to get that Connor McGregor fight. And a lot of people don't want to hear that, but it's probably what's going to happen if Oliver beats his on Machachev. And if Makachef wins, Volkadovsky's probably going to get the next title shot, which is not fair and it's dumb and it makes no sense. And Darius should be the guy. But this is the

world we live in, ladies and gentlemen, and that's just it. The UFC is going to try to sell a guy trying to win a second title over a guy like Binaldaryush. And it's just not fair and it doesn't make any But to me, the correct answer is the fight that's gotten all the attention since it's gotten announced. And it is in the Bannamweight Division. And it's not the title fight. It is Peotryan versus Sean O'Malley because most people look at this fight almost the same way that they view Hamza Achaimae versus Nate Diaz.

Oh, what are they doing? This is a terrible match for Sean O'Malley. He's just going to get run over. He's going to get he alive, yada, yada, yada. And maybe there's some truth to that. But I look at the Jedmishue way of how Tyron Woodley should have box Jake Paul. in their second meeting in December. And what I mean by that is,

if I'm shot O'Malley, I am just emptying the chambers in the first five minutes of that fight. I'm going after Peotre Young with every single ounce of energy that I have. I'm going to try to make that man uncomfortable when he's trying to gather data in that first round. What I'm going to do is I'm just going to blast him

with every single thing that I have. Now, one of two things is going to happen. You're going to get Piotr Yan out of there and get him just and pick up the biggest one of your career, maybe earn yourself a title fight or at least get yourself in the conversation. Or two, you're going to have a tremendous showing of yourself in the first round. And yeah, maybe you'll lose round two.

Maybe you'll get finished in the third. But you're going to go out there and compete with the man. It's going to look like a fight where the betting line doesn't match what we actually saw in the octagon. We know how Jan gets better as the fight goes. So if I'm O'Malley, I'm not trying to have a point kickboxing fight with this guy. I'm not going to let this guy try to kick me in the legs. I'm just going to out the gates, put the boots to this guy, try to tackle him through the cage and just beat him with every ounce of strength that I have.

Will that work? I don't know. Is it worth a shot? I think so. And come fight week, this outside of the main event, this is going to be the fight that everybody's talking about. This is going to be the media day scrums that get the most views. This is going to be the write-ups that get the most clicks. It's going to be all on Yon and O'Malley because it's just such a weird, wild fight that doesn't really make a lot of sense. But if you actually look at the Lance escape into this division, who's booked and who isn't, this is actually the best thing that could have happened to either guy. And I feel pretty badly for Pedro Munoz that he kind of has to sit out, watch Sean O'Malley, fight the former champion after poking the dude in the eye.

But this to me is outside of the main event, the most intriguing fight on the card, even though the betting lines might suggest this is going to be a whitewash for Piotrion. Yeah, the betting lines are really interesting to me on this one because I don't get me wrong, everyone who's watching and is going to be mad at me because I'm not Drake Craigs. I'm sorry. I think Sean O'Malley has a better chance than the numbers are suggesting. Because to me, this fight feels a lot like, I don't know, I've said it for a long time. I think Piotr Yan, his style is not nearly unbeatable over five rounds. Three rounds are very different. He's a slow starter. It takes a while to get up ahead of steam and

he's not going to be able to put that pace to take advantage. So Drake, can Sean O'Malley win this? Like, is this a, does he have an actual chance to win this? Or is this a Hamzot-Nate-Leat-Leat-Leat-Level slaughter incoming? No, I don't think it's comparable in that way, and kind of specifically because of the style differences there that we're seeing. I mean, if you do look at the Munoz fight, which I do want to, you know, bounce off Mike there, feel terrible for him. Like, he's the real loser in all of this,

gets poked in the eyes and then loses out on an opportunity, potentially, I guess, to fight Yon, who could have been him. But instead, O'Malley gets to go on as if he won, and he says he did win anyway. But I think he has a better chance than Nate for sure if you were to compare those two matchups. And you do look at that fight specifically with Munoz. He was very patient in that one.

And it kind of didn't make for the most exciting fight whatsoever. Lost the first round on two judges' scorecards. So maybe if he can adjust off of that but still fight with that same level of patience, I could see him. You know, maybe having success, at least in the very first round and doing pretty all right there. and he has the length advantage over most everybody in the division.

So if he can use that to his advantage here against Peter Yan as well, I think he could definitely find success. He's got a great power. We've seen, as you mentioned, Jed, you know, Jan being a bit of a slow starter, specifically in like, I don't want to say he does get better as the fights to go on,

but you look at his fights against, like, Jimmy Rivera, for example. He lost those first two rounds until like the last 15 seconds when he hurt Jimmy. So it's kind of a progression. build in terms of the round itself and then especially the five rounders which we see kind of this different switch that he can flip in those two fights and i wish that this one kind of was five rounds

just for the fact that or the potential to see o'malley work with that whether it would help him probably not but to see him experience like we never got to see that with the beat for example haven't seen it with o'malley yet of course it's more fun to have this big stack card and all that but there's that dynamic to it as well so i think that o'mally definitely has potential to do pretty well against Jan. I'm still not going to favor him. I think these odds are still about right. And I mean, if you were to compare the odds to Diaz

a much bigger underdog than O'Malley is. But yeah, I think he can do well there, whether it's just getting right in Jan's face, making him uncomfortable and risking it all. That's probably his best ticket, like Mike did mention just because of the fact that as the fight goes on, no mercy is going to show no mercy. All right.

Let's talk about the other Bannamway fight at 280 because there are just so many fights and I want to talk about all of them and I was a little shocked that you guys both wanted to wax poetic on Gamrot versus Darius. So the co-main event, I agree with what I think both of you have said in that Mike, Mike particularly was like, yeah, the Sean Amalley fight's going to outstrip it. Co-main event is not going to be the biggest fight in this weekend, but it's certainly the most important Bannamweight fight. So, Drake, let's go back to you.

How do you think T.J. Dillishaw is going to, because, become a three-time champion, which I think only Randy Couture has done before. I guess John Jones, if you're counting his interim title counts as a three-time champion. So is T.J. Dillershaw, does he have the ability to do that? And is this the right fight to make for the division? So T.J. definitely does have the ability to do so. I don't think that he will. I still think that Al Jemaine Sterling is very, very underappreciated and underrated by a lot of people in the community. We saw what he did against

Peyote Rion in the last fight, and yes, you can argue that he didn't win that fight, but he still did a whole lot better than a lot of people thought he would when compared to the first fights. And for T.J., he's a guy who is coming off of, you know, the injury he had, hasn't fought in a year now. Only that one fight in, what, the last three years

since 2019, right, when he got suspended after the Sohudo loss, like just been very, very inactive. And yes, he did well enough to get the win over Sanhagen, but you can argue he lost that one as well. So, I mean, with a guy like Sterling, who has continually gotten better and better with his own striking over the years

and is one of the best wrestlers in the division can kind of shut down that movement that T.J. presents. I think he should be the favorite, not by a lot, and I expect him to go out there and get a second defense in this one. And is it the matchup to make? Kind of with everything I said there, the arguable nature of T.J.'s recent history,

you know, testing positive and then getting a, you know, arguable should have been lost against San Hagan his last time out plus the injuries. All these things. around TJ. I don't know if I would have made this fight. I'm not super mad about it just because he did officially get a win.

I think it's important to go off of that. And against somebody like San Hagan who was up there at the time and still floating around. But then you look at a guy like Jose Aldo, who has been resurgent still, still hanging around. He's getting closer to the end of his career. We know the UFC likes to do favors every now. And then we see with Dan Henderson.

Not the same exact case here because Aldo is still one of the very best in the division. But what he's been doing has been more consistent and more impressive lately cleaner than TJ. And he's not going to be around forever. So I think that's one that we could have tried to get out of the way and at least see. There's a great story there. Aldo is always a main event named. Hardcore fans love the guy and how can you not. That probably would have been the one to make.

And, of course, then you could throw in the Henry Suhudo possibility. But I don't think we should even talk about that because the UFC and data have clearly been not interested whatsoever as much as Henry wants to really remind us that he should be fighting for. it. And as much as I think that's probably the matchup, I'd be most intrigued by just because Henry also a guy like Sterling who was perpetually underrated and underappreciated because of, you know, whether it's their personality or who they fought or whatnot. I like that one the most, but logic-wise, it just never would happen. So I think Aldo is probably the fight that I would have went with here. Both guys were interested in it. Aldo wanted it, obviously. Now he's going on to fight his buddy Marab. So, I mean, he wins that then he'll get there.

but I think we could have done it beforehand. Mike, who should have got the title shot against Al Jemaine Sterling and why was it Jose Aldo? Yeah, I mean, Drake likes to act like he's not sitting on a fence, but he is straddling the fence right now. He said both names, well, maybe you could do this, maybe you could do this. No, Joseoaldo is the correct answer. Joseoaldo should have got enough, this wind streak that he's on.

Look at the winds that he's gotten and how well they have aged. So to me, it was Jose Aldo, should have got the shot. Now, do I understand why TJ's getting it? Sure. People think that because TJ is such a villain, that because he has a name for good or for bad, maybe this sells better for some reason. But now that it's 80, and it's the co-made event to Olivera Makachev,

like the UFC could have easily switched things up here. They could have easily put Aldo in this fight, and they could have put TJ in there with Marab. They could have easily done that, but they didn't. and this is the fight we get. I favor Al Jemaine Sterling a lot in this fight. I actually feel like Pejor Yon is a better version of T.J. Dillashah, if that makes any sense.

And Al J.O. won that fight in my eyes. I know a lot of people like to argue with that, mostly because, one, they either bet money on Yon or two, they just don't like Al Jemay and Sterling. And as of right now, this fight is flying under the radar. But much like Jacksonville, where Sterling Yon, too, was flying under the radar, especially on top of the main event

and on top of the Shemaya Berr built up their fight better during that fight week than Al Jemaine Sterling did. Nobody did. Absolutely did. At least levels by the time we got to Jacksonville to where we are in Fight Night, exponentially for that fight. And Al Jermaine Sterling was a big part of that.

And I think we're going to experience something very similar here where this is going to be like fifth or sixth on everybody's rankings, but as things progress, as we go through the media days and the press conferences, Aljo calls Dilleshaw a cheater. Dillishaw tries to fire back at Aljo. Maybe we get O'Malley in there to say his stuff, and Jan will probably have his things to say as well.

I think the build for this fight is just going to increase and get bigger and bigger as we get to October 22nd. So like the fight, favor Sterling. He should be the favorite in this one, and Aldo should have been the guy. We should be talking about Al Jemaine Sterling versus Jose Aldo on Fight Island or instead of Dillishah, but this is the world we live in, and this is what we have to deal with, unfortunately. I just want to say real quick, the point about selling, you know, I don't know if it really matters in this case, because as we've learned over time, Mike, I mean, as much as we love these massive big stack cards, we're the only ones that that matters for. The casuals do not care. They only want the main event.

I mean, look at Hamzaa and Diaz as a perfect example. That card is going to do better, numbers on this one. That card is not going to be better than this one top to bottom. So I don't think it really matters in this case because Dillashah and Sterling was never going to be a main event, at least of this event, maybe that one right there. But then they decided, are we going to push it back? Because we made Hamzad and Diaz happen. So in terms of selling, I don't know what they were thinking because it doesn't matter. And plus, they have to give Abu Dhabi two title fights anyways. And they were just like, well, we'll just move this one back. We pay the UFC all this money to put on these mega cards, if I have to have two title fights on it. So we'll just move this back

a month. But in the beginning, it should have just been Aldo anyways. So I, and I have said that for months. And I, you probably said that many times yourself, Drake. Like what, there would be no better story right now for this division that have Jose Aldo fought for the title and somehow won it. There's just no better story. And we compare it to what would happen if T.J. Dillishaw won the title. It's like a night and day reaction. It's apples and oranges, baby. That would be the funny. outcome. That would be the funniest outcome. Let's all be honest.

Yeah. But although should have been the guy, this just be like, okay, we need a second title fight. This one's here. We got Diaz. Jamiyev. Let's go. Mike, you mentioned a second title fight, and I know we've had a long round two,

but there's still more because the main event, we have to at least discuss it for a little bit. It is Charles Oliver, the uncrowned champion fighting for the vacant belt against Islam Makachev. It's the fight that was rumored for a long time. I think we all thought we'd get here, though, whether it would take probably some Brazil or Abu Dore, wherever it would happen. We ended up here, how excited for this fight are you? Because personally, I am stoked. Like, this is the best fight of the year for me. So I hope you both are the same boat I am. This is the best fight on paper this year for the UFC by a considerable and significant

margin in terms of intrigue. It's very rare that we find especially made events where we don't need any drama. We don't need any BS. We don't need either of these guys in media day. We don't need either of these guys at press conferences. We don't need either of these guys on Twitter. We just need these two guys to show up and fight each other. That's why this fight is so special. It is so intriguing because all the questions we have had Islam Makachev are going to be answered. Did he deserve this title fight was him not getting a top five win enough to put him in this position was the dominance against the bobby greens and the dan hookers of the world did he deserve this opportunity over some other guys like benille der euse you know and other guys you could throw in there and everybody wanted this fight

everybody was so fascinated by it and now we're going to get it and we're getting it on this card i thought that this would be the fight pretty much from the get go if they went a different direction it wouldn't have surprised me the fact that it's the fact that it's it's happening in Abu Dhabi kind of surprised me, but it also leads me to believe that there's no way that Connor McGregor is not part of this conversation right now. There's no way. Because you could have done this fight at MSG and it has the same to the casual audience, to the viewers who are going to be spending $75 on it. You could have pushed this back to December and headlined the December card in Las Vegas. You could have done this in September.

You could have done it in Brazil. You could have done it anywhere. And this fight would still be there and it would still be just as intriguing. But the fact that this is where the UFC wanted this fight, this is where Makachov wanted this fight, it's probably where Habib wanted this fight, Oliver didn't really want this fight there. There's no way that Connor's not part of the conversation right now. The scratch your back, you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours.

You go to Abu Dhabi and you fight this guy. You beat this dude. You get to fight Connor next. So I love the fight. The fact that it's in Abu Dhabi makes it a little more intriguing for the Oliver side, but people just continue to sleep on Charles Olivera. He's a big underdog right now. as he stands. The last I looked, he was like a plus 190 or a plus 200, no matter where you look.

I mean, what else does this man have to do? Like, what else is this man have to do to silence the doubters? And I know, Jed, it might cost me a point. You know, like, I know you know that is that you feel that Islam Makachev is the best lightweight in the world. And that, despite his, yep, Olver should just hand him the title. Like, don't even do the fight. Just going to hear it. No, he's not going to hand him the title. He's going to fall over to his back. And Islam's going to be the one dude who's like, I do not care about your. guard. I'm just going to bash your face in. Oh, that cool standing 10 count you have when everybody else is too afraid. Tudn matter to me. You're dead now because Paul Felder could elbow you out

from the guard. I suspect I can do it too. Anyway, I'm not, I'm not a contestant. What's the statute of what's the statute of limitation on these losses, Jed? Come on. Come on. I'm just saying to Paul. The fight rules is the best fight of the year. I'm saying if Paul Felder can do it, Islam can do it. But I'm not a contestant. Drake is a contestant. And Drake. Mike said a thing which I think a lot of people are thinking about the Conner-Regger aspect to this. But rumors have been that this fight, and a lot of the other talk was not about Connor next, but that this is the fight that if Charles wins could lure Habib out of retirement, and that that could be maybe the biggest fight possible for Charles Oliver,

certainly from a legacy standpoint. If he goes in and beats Islamychev, do you think that that can pull Habib back for one last fight and to do this work? this kind of big super fight. Do you think that's possible? I mean, anything is possible, Jed. But man, as much as I would absolutely love to see that. I know we've went back and forth a little bit on Twitter about it, Habib versus Charles. Like, as much as I would have loved that, I would love it even more in this case where you have this story of him going in there and beating Islam. And then fighting Habib makes it all the more intriguing because then you would know that he at least can handle a guy similar to Habib and

at, you know, showing all the way. these similarities to him, right? But man, with with a guy like Habib who's just been so absolutely adamant about practically every decision he makes, but for him to come out of retirement just for, I mean, he's such a family-oriented guy, right? Like he did the retirement specifically for his family. Like, we know he could continue to be fighting now. He could still be the champion at this exact moment, but he's not because he made his promises. Didn't care about the 30, you know, I'll take 29. It's fine. I just struggle to see him going back on his word.

I think he would need something, some more volatility involved. You look at how just nasty and toxic things got with Connor. If it was to that level, which it's 100% not going to get even nearly as close to that at all. Like Mike said, there's going to be no, we don't need anything more from Charles versus Machachev, aside from the fight itself. And we're not going to get it. And that's totally fine because that's how great of a matchup it is. I think if there was that amplified element to it, we could see it from Habib. I guess it depends on how things do go with the fight.

Like if he absolutely just destroys him easily, if Oliver destroys Mokachev, that is, maybe. But I don't know. I really cannot see that happening. And I don't know. I do not know if Aviv is still in the testing pool or not. If he is, then I would automatically have to give it a better chance of happening, but still a guy like him who's just been so serious about this whole thing

and not really seeming interested. Like he's talking about, all right, It's these guys is time now. It was mine. I did it. It's fine. I don't think so, man. It's fun, and as much as I would love it, I just, he's never struck me as that guy, no matter what.

Mike, is Charles after beating Islam versus Habib the biggest fight in the history of the UFC? The biggest in the history of the UFC right now? No, I don't think so. I just don't know if anything can surpass the awfulness of the Conner situation and how much buzz that fight generally. It's awful to think about because I would like from a just a purest standpoint, I would love to see what versus prime Habib would have looked like. I mean, it just would have been amazing. I would have loved to have seen that. I just think that Habib is a man of principal.

And I just don't think he's coming back, man. Like I just don't. I think he's satisfied with everything that he's done. I just, and I don't think all of air is going to do anything like Drake said, anything really disrespectful to make him be like, oh yeah. Oh, yeah. US OB, I am coming back. I just don't see it. Like, I feel like he's done everything he's needed to do. You want to

live in this fantasy world. You want to live in this fantasy world where Nate Diaz going to submit Hamza Chamaev, but Habib can't possibly come back. Just nonsense, Mike. Absolutely nonsense. First of all, first of all, as the host, do not cut me off, son. And second of all,

I run the ship right now. I know, but seriously, I just, no, I mean, never say never, like, never say never. Like, if Nate leaves the UFC and he comes back, like, never say never. Same thing here. But if I had 20 bucks to put on it, I'm not putting it on Habib coming back. I think he's a man of principal and I think he's happy coaching and just seeing some of his

fighters try to reach his levels. You know what I mean? And he's going to be plenty busy doing that. I think we have a better chance of Nate versus Habib in Eagle FC than that happening. No, Habib versus Adasana. Now you're talking. I'll be versus Adasanya, baby. Habib versus Adasana.

Look, Mike, you know that I said that, I said that like two years ago that I think would be beats Adasania and I still stand by it. I know. That was probably the longest round in the history of this show, but UFC 280 had a lot of stuff. It was important to talk about it. And we got to all of it. We didn't even mention the fight announced today. I was waiting for you to announce that. I thought that was going to be your answer to the first question, Drake.

I was going to throw it in there. but it didn't fit too well. What got an ounce to? Not super happy with it. Hadriguez versus LeMosch. Oh, the Hadriguez-Lemosh fight. Yeah, I saw that right before we started. So, yeah, we can't talk about that because we're already well past time at this juncture.

So the point for round two goes to the champion, Mr. Jake Griggs, because he finally acknowledged the brilliance of the lightweight division, just waxing poetic on the great lightweight fights. Didn't acknowledge it. I know, but I teed you up to give deference to the Bannam weights, and you were like, no, I'd rather talk about Benile Darius and Matush Gamrod. And that spoke to me on a personal level. All right. The third round.

I know a lot of big stuff's happened this week, but a semi-important thing happened this past weekend. Yaya Rodriguez, Brian Ortega, UFC Long Island. A lot of weird stuff happened. Obviously not the main event anybody wanted or the outcome. anybody wanted. But the result is the result. Yaya Rodriguez officially takes a win over Brian Ortega. Afterwards, comes out, says that he wants a title fight.

Dana White and others have suggested an interim title fight. Yair said, okay, but kind of really isn't that interested. He really does want Volkanowski, and Volkanovsky is kind of given it the okay. So, Mike, we'll start with you. Where is the featherweight division right now? Like, where does everything stand? what would you like to see moving forward from this sort of unfortunate series of circumstances that have occurred?

So on Saturday, as that fight ended, and I'm thinking about the future of this division, unfortunate was a word that I probably would have went to first, right? But the more this has played out, the more that we've heard from the people involved in this conversation, the more I think outside of Brian Ortega, because it just sucks for him that the fight ended so abruptly, but for the players who were actually involved here, this is probably the best thing that could have happened because we have no clarity in this division.

We have none. We can look at it from, well, who's a bigger star and what's the more intriguing matchup? Or we can look at who's the guy in the bigger winning streak. Who's the guy who deserves it here? We have two guys who have a compelling conversation on who could be the number one contender, on who could be the guy to fight Alexander Volcanowski

to try to stop that train from running over everybody. And now we have an opportunity, to just have those two guys fight each other. Like there's no debate. There's no conversation. Meet me by the oak tree and let's fight it out and let's see who the better man is. Like let's just have these two guys fight each other. You want to strap in it, you want to throw an interim title on the line so the guys make a couple more bucks.

Sure, have at it. But you should probably just pay them more anyways and then we don't have to worry about any of that crap. Just let these two guys fight. Winner gets Volkinovsky. Volkinovsky's banged up. He's got the thumb injury. He's going to be out for 12 weeks. We didn't even know if he's going to be able to come back and fight this year because we don't

know how much of a toll that's going to take. We don't know what the recovery process is going to be like. So we hear these injuries and we hear these time frames, like, we're just hoping for the best. We're trying to have a positive outlook, but we don't know. We don't know. Like, look at Daniel Rodriguez. Daniel Rodriguez was supposed to come back in January after a hand surgery. He needed two more hand surgeries and the man still hasn't fought after being so active to start his UFC career. So I think this is the perfect fight to make. I think we could do this sometime before the end of the year. We can have a clear cut number one contender. We can let Volker. Skokovsky heal up. If he wants to go to one

and challenge lightweight title, cool. That's fine. If not, he's got to, he'll have an actual number one contender to fight. Like, we don't have to pull the zombies. We don't have to slide in Henry Sohudo because no one cares. We will have like a legit full on number one

contender not named Max Holloway. And to me, we will finally have an answer. And I'm excited about that. It sucks for Brian Ortega. But this is a win for Yaya Rodriguez. Like the I've watched it, this is a win for Yayao Rodriguez. It's not like Ortega slipped in the cage and fell on his shoulder and popped out of the socket. Yaya was trying to do something. Ortega tried to rip his arm out and he popped his shoulder out and the fight was over. So this is a real win for Yair. And this is probably the best thing that could happen for the division because now we're going to figure out who the actual guy is to fight Volkanowski next. And I'm fine with it. You want to do an interim title. Cool. If not, just pay them more money and let him fight and we'll see who the better man is.

So, Drake, there's been a lot of backlash to the interim title idea. Obviously, Volcanovsky said he was cool with it, but that sort of came under the auspice that he's got his eyes set on the lightweight title, right? So he's okay with an interim title in the meantime. How do you feel about the interim title? Is that, is that the right decision to make regardless of whether Volk gets a chance to go to lightweight? Or would you rather just see them fight for our number one contender spot? Typically, I would be in the camp of just letting them fight for a number one contender spot. But I think because of the uncertainty, kind of that Mike mentioned there, it's like, all right, just to be safe, let's throw an interim title on the line.

And I mean, in that case, it does help out the guys involved, you know, give it more money. A title is always great for selling and just boosting the overall, you know, feel of the fights, makes it a little bit more important. So I'm kind of on board with it in that case, and especially with everything going on. Like Mike said, it's not very clear, but I think it is pretty clear. And he mapped out why. That's the fight to make, put the interim title on the line. We'll wait for Volcanovsky whenever he's ready, whether it's just healing up, or then when he goes to fight for lightweight, whether or not it's either or both of those things,

we'll at least have somebody 100% waiting and will know exactly who it is because they got that shiny metal object around their shoulder. So, yeah, I have no problem with it. Typically, I feel like interim titles should be reserved for, you know, these injuries where, champions are out for a long, long time. Like, I think the best case examples of that in UFC history are like Frank Meir when he had his motorcycle incident and then accident, I should say, Dominic Cruz, of course, during his first run, rather than something like Cyril Gahn, getting his after Francis Singano won the title.

But I'm fine with it here because, again, the uncertainty and with somebody wants to go up like Volcanowski, I think that I wouldn't be mad at it. Like we talked about a little bit last week as well, Jed. like he still has some work to do in the division, that is for sure. But like, I can't say I don't want to see him fight either Makachev or Olivera or most of those guys at lightweight. So out of just that pure fan perspective and me wanting to see those fights, I'll let it slide. I'm very, you know, much a purist in that regard.

But for this case, Volcanovsky is just so amazing. I want to see what he can do at lightweight, whether it's now or later. I think that things are looking pretty all right at featherweight. And then with some other people involved, like I know Arnold Allen's name's been mentioned, and he's a guy who shouldn't be forgotten, but he's got to fight somebody like maybe Ortega next or Holloway, which, you know, that one's always kind of a scary one to set back potential contenders, as we've seen Holloway do. But I think things are looking pretty fine and clear for the most part at Featherweight,

even if there is some unknown with the champ and what he's going to do and how long it'll take for him to be ready again. He just wants to be active. So I believe, you know, there's a chance he can do whatever he wants and make it work, assuming no more injuries kind of come out of it. The UFC's on board. What are the two? Even Dana White's on board with it, and that's huge. Well, let's talk about who else is on board.

Alexander Volcanovsky mentioned a bunch. Drake, I want to go back to you, and we don't need to get too deep into the weeds here, but it's essentially in Volk's perfect world, the UFC's rumored to be coming back to Australia early 2023. And he said on Arrow Hawani this week, hey, I want to fight for the lightweight title in Australia. And I think the UFC would do that for me because of all the water I've carried for them.

Is that realistic or is it more realistic that he defends his featherweight belt in Australia? And then after that, he gets the lightweight shot if he's going to be out until early 2023. Yeah, I think it's way, way, way more realistic that he's going to be defending there. Especially, let's say that Olivera does win. And I mean, there's so many variables that go into that. But let's say he wins after going and doing kind of a solid with the Abu Dada. fight. He wants to fight in Brazil again, like for him to do it back to back. I struggle with that. I struggle to see him being all right with it. And yeah, I think Charles will do whatever the UFC

wants, but I don't know if they'd even, you know, I feel like they would be generous enough, at least with somebody like Oliver, who's been so consistently exciting and accompanied man himself to an extent, right? All right. They want to go back to Brazil too. Why not give him what he wants? We were thinking about it anyway. I just don't know. Maybe with Makachev, that could be something. But, I mean, there's just so many variables that go into that as well, which is kind of the outcome of that fight and what happens with the lightweight title. I think a featherweight title defense there for Volcanowski back in Australia is it's not even really a discussion here. That is way more likely to happen no matter whether it's against, you know, Yair or Emmett doesn't matter. That's that is what will happen before.

I'm pretty confident in that, no matter when it does happen if Volcanovsky does go up. Mike, what would you rather see? Would you rather see Volk defend his belt in Oz? Or do you want to see Charles Olivera make another trip to enemy territory? Or Islam Mokachev make a trip to enemy territory for his belt? I mean, I would love to see either of those matchups. But I think as of right now where we stand, it's probably he defends the title against either Yaiyere or Josh Emmett, depending on who comes out of that one.

probably a co-made event. And there's just a lot that has to factor into this thing. Like what happens with Adasanya? Like, will he have already fought Pereira? Will he still be the champion? Because if Adasania is the champion, he's definitely going to main event that card. And it's just a matter of who he fights.

Who are they going to put him up, put him in there against? And if Adasania is the main event, he's still the champion, then Volcanowski will more than likely defend the featherweight title. Now, let's just say UFC 281 rolls around and Pereira knocks out Israel Adasania and becomes the champion. Maybe you do the rematch there. Maybe Adasana need some time off.

Maybe we need a main event for that card if it happens in February or March. Then we'll call on Volkadovsky. And you're probably not going to headline a car with Volkanowski versus Josh Emmett or Year. But you could certainly headline Alexander Volcanowski going up to 55 to fight either Olivera or Mokachev, depending on what happens, October 26. second. So it's kind of a fancy answer, but I just, it's kind of a wait and see at this point to see just how everything plays out. Like what happens? What if they book Yaiyir and Emmett and something happens? One of these guys gets hurt and we have to push that fight back. Like, there's a lot that can happen between now and when that event could even happen, which is not even on the

books yet for Australia. So I think we get a lot to go on. But if I had my druthers, I would let, I would say Volkadovsky, defends his title, rack up some more wins. I would, I definitely want to see him at 155. And a Mokachev wasn't in the picture right now. If you wanted to do Olvera versus Volcanovsky for the vacant title, I would have been okay with that, but it's just not the world we live in. Volkanovsky's hurt. Makachov's the guy. So right now, let's just keep guys where they're at, there's at 55. And if Volkanovsky is needed to fill a spot, then you can put him in there and give him his opportunity. But he's got more work to do, let him do the work, maybe get another title defense in. And then if 55 is still an option, if he's still the champion,

he's just sweeping scorecards and pitching perfect games, then give him his chance at 155. So we have to wait and see, but I prefer him to defend the title instead of going up as of right now. A lot of other awesome stuff happened this past weekend, which frankly, we're just not, we don't have the time to talk about. Sumer D'Aji Matchnell, fight of the year,

comeback of the year almost certainly locked up. Amanda Limos, who we briefly mentioned, got a big winner of Michelle Waterson. Lauren Murphy, Mike was on the Lauren Murphy bandwagon and when no one else was, got a big, big win of Amisha Tate. A bunch of other stuff happened. Great card.

But we don't have time for that because we are moving on to the final round. And heading into that round with a two one lead, very narrow margin of victory is Boston Mike Heck. The lights can't get too bright, baby. He gets the point basically because, you know, Drake just said,

I agree with everything Mike said to start the round. That's never a good point. place to be when you're a debate show. Like, I agree, Mike's answer is perfect. So, uh, when I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. It's just $39.99. How could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner. A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winners?

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Our final round, gentlemen, maybe of the whole thing, if Boston Mike can get a W right now. This weekend, the UFC returns to London for their second show. Obviously, the event UFC London in March was a monster event. And so they decided to just run it back

with like half of the same cast. UFC on London looks awesome on paper. The main event, Curtis Blades, Tom Aspenall in a pretty important heavyweight title fight. Tommy Aspenno. Thank you. I appreciate that, Drake. And, Drake, let's start with you.

What is at stake in the main event between Tommy Espinall, Tom and Curtis Blades? What is at stake for Tommy Aspenol and Curtis Blades? Tommy Espinall. Yep, yep. Which I did finally see that, by the way. I had to. it's so weird right like i feel like we're still in the exact same spot that we were after we talked about the last ufc london event and you know after curtis blaze last fight as well with doc it's like

i feel like these guys are just looking to kind of maintain their spot in the waiting line you know because we're still waiting for things to shake out with well the champion frances going to see what happens with him john jones maybe you know we've been been waiting on him to come back and fight maybe Stipe instead of Francis. Like, it has not cleared up at all at heavyweight. And whatever happens in this fight isn't going to help it. It's just going to let us know, all right, these guys are ready after these guys. And who knows how long that's going to take. So all this is is for fighting to stay, hold your spot in line. Because you're not going to go up necessarily, but you're not going back. So that is really it. Of course,

Tom Aspenol could continue to become a very big star. and that part of the world grow his base. And I mean, just grow his popularity overall. And he's already doing a very good job being that London guy as he wants to be. As for Blades, he's kind of just where he is. Now, I don't think he's going to become some massive superstar overnight. Yes, he can derail the hype, if you will, of Aspinol. I think he's kind of proven himself, though, as we talked about after his Volkov victory,

you know, he could argue. I think he has potential to be a champion one day. just a matter of time and how things shake out in this division. I think this is a very tough matchup for him. A guy like Curtis Blades, this will potentially tell us a lot. If Curtis wants to utilize his best weapon, which is his fantastic wrestling, which he did not need or want to use whatsoever against Dacus, I think he should try to do that in this one. But just in terms of what's at stake, man, like, it's just managing to stay where you are. Like, if you don't go up, you can go down, but there's just,

There's no way the UFC is going to let one of these guys pass up, John Jones, or even Steepa, since he's in the conversation. And then we have gone and Tuivasa coming up. And they could be very well behind those guys, maybe not gone, but I just, we haven't moved whatsoever in the heavyweight division outside of the last, you know, the top four guys or so. Mike, is the heavyweight division obviously a little stagnant right now just because of where the champion's at in this interim title?

but can Tommy Aspinall, I mean, we know the UFC wants to do John Jones versus Steepa. That's still not happening at the moment. A big win for Tommy Aspinall and a mic performance, can he slide his way into an interim title fight? Do they want to do John Jones versus Steepa? Because the longer the time frame goes, the less I feel that that's actually true. Because Francis is saying that he might be able to fight in December, maybe even January. So if that's the case, like if I'm the UFC, why don't we just wait? Like, why don't we just do Francis versus John?

Like, this is what we're trying to build towards, right? And the fact that we haven't put this fight even on paper yet tells me that the UFC is going to put Francis number one here. They're going to try to figure out this contract situation, figure out when he can heal up, figure out when he can get back. And if he can get back at the end of the year or early next year, they're not going to try and risk booking John Jones twice because we know how difficult that can be. So they'll just give John the freaking Francis fight, which is the way to go anyways.

And Steep A might just kind of be the odd man out of this equation, which would stink for him because they've just been kind of stringing him along throughout this entire process. Now, if Francis can't come back until like A or June or they can't figure out the contract situation, then we got Jones, we got Steep A. That could be sort of like plan B, do an interim title fight. And if we can resign Francis grade, if not, then the interim champion will become the undisputed champion. but Drake mentioned a word earlier when talking about the lightweights, and I think it means,

I think it's honestly what's happening at heavyweight, even though the UFC will never say it, even though they'll never present it this way, we're in the middle of a tournament right now. We're in the middle of a heavyweight tournament. We got main events, different parts of the world, we got London with this fight with Tommy Aspinall and Curtis Blades,

and then we got Paris in September, Sierra Gone versus Tai Tuivasa. The most likely answer, as boring as this might be, I'd love to come out and throw a curbed ball at you, but the two winners are going to fight each other. That's it. And then they'll be kind of just thrust into line,

depending on what happens in the situation. But the fact that we don't have an interim title on the books, the fact that we don't know what's going on with France at this point, John Jones has gone to fight for the belt either way. Either he fights Stipe for the interim title or France come back sooner than we think, then John will get that shot. And then we have to wait a little bit more. Now it's Stipe in here.

So as of now, we're just building up to fight the winner of, the winner of this fight is just going to fight the winner of the Paris main event between gone and Tuivasa. And we're just going to slowly build our way to one of these four guys getting into a title fight, which may not happen until the end of next year. It's a slow role for all of them. And if you're Curtis Blades, you're used to this thing. So there you go. They're fighting for the intercontinental UFC title of heavyweight. Yeah, the heavyweight, the television title. That's what they're fighting for. The ESPN plus television championship.

Well, as big as that fight is, it is not the only fight this weekend. And as much as I love the co-main event between action man, Chris Curtis and Jacka Manson, we're not going to talk about that because it's not the show. That's not what the people are tuning in for this weekend. They're doing it again. They're running back all of the UK's favorite sons and daughters. And how are they going to do? That's what we're going with this.

So Drake, let's start with you. Patty Pimbleau is fighting in the third fight from the top against Jordan Levitt and Molly McCann taking on Hannah Goldie. And I'm even going to throw it out there just because I think he's the best prospect in MMA. Mohameda Makaaev taking on Charles Johnson. All of them at UFC London got big Ws. They're running it back again. Can they go two for two? Can the hometown people get the dubs this weekend, Drake?

Yeah, I think it's very certainly possible. the matchups I don't want to say are tailor-made for them to do so because they're not. I mean, Mollies is, I think, for sure. I don't have much concern for her there. Patty, that's always an interesting one because we've continued to see, despite him pulling off the wins that he has in the UFC so far, we've seen weaknesses in him. And Jordan Levitt, not so sure he's the guy that could be able to do it,

but who knows? Because with Vargas in the last fight, there was a brief glimpse. there of Patty still getting into some troublesome issues, at least for a brief couple seconds there. Turn it around, though. Got the finish. So it doesn't really matter. But it still shows you that he needs to work on some things

and that he is susceptible in certain areas. So with a guy like Levitt who's been consistent so far in the UFC to an extent, not the best guy, not the worst guy. Pretty good spot for Patty to be fighting still at that level. A guy like Jordan Levitt, I think that would be the one I'm most concerned. about because Mokaiyev, he's very, very talented as well. Sorry, Charles Johnson. Don't think you're going to have a great time there. But I'd still have to lean towards Patty in that one and think that everything's going to work out for these guys on take two here of UFC London. And

I think the UFC wants that. That's fairly clear. Why wouldn't they continue to build this up, continue doing this thing in London as much as they can? Who knows, maybe they'll come back at the end of the year if this event does the same as the first one did. But yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying that they'll have another great night. But who knows, this is MMA. It would be perfectly fitting if the UFC tried to replicate that same exact thing. And they all lost because that's how the MMA gods work. I'm not willing to gamble on that.

But it wouldn't shock me either. If they're going to lose, it's going to be all together, man. The ship's sinking all at once. Mike, if the MMA gods are cruel on Saturday, let's exclude the main event because that's That's obviously the closest fight on paper and in the odds. Who is the UK fighter who screws the pooch for everyone else? Who's the one who doesn't get their hand raised if it's going to be that way? Oh, boy.

So I think I'm as high on Mahiaf as you are, Jed. I've publicly said that in the next couple of years, he will be the flyweight champion. And then a couple of years after that, he will be a two division champion. I think he will be good enough to go up to Bannonweight and win both titles. And Charles Johnson is actually a perfect second fight for him because Charles doesn't care who Muhammad Mahamahev is. He doesn't care that he's one of the top, if not the best prospect at all in M.M.A.

He's just going to go out. Bell's going to ring. He's going to go out and he's just got punched Muhammad Mahiaheuf right in the face and he's going to be like, react to that. So I do think Bahaif will react accordingly and get a win, might get a late stoppage, but I think it's going to be a fun fight for as long as it lasts. Molly McCann

should never be a minus 410, favorite against anybody, Jed. Like, I think you know this being- You know that's barred this week. Yeah, like, honestly, like a minus 4-10 favorite, come on. Like, I know-a big number. Like, I know, yeah, I know Hannah Goldie, like, you know, she's one and two in the UFC.

But we also have to understand, like, she took two years off. She was fighting at straw weight and cutting all that weight. Now she's at 125. She's coming off of a win. She looked pretty good in that fight. She's just a big hulking girl. She's really strong. She's really athletic.

And I know how much you feel. favor athleticism, Jed. I know how much you favor that? So if I'm thinking dollars to put on non-UK fighter in this type of situation, I'm probably putting it on Hannah Goldie just because I just don't think that Molly McCann should be that big of a favorite over anybody, if we're being honest. And as far as what people are going to be circled come Saturday, the one that everyone's going to be talking about, Patty Pimlow versus Jordan Levitt, this will be the most talked about card on fight on the card Saturday. And I feel like there's a very real chance that Pimlin can lose this fight because I just

don't think he's that great. Like I just don't think he's that great of a fighter. And for the building of Patty as a potential star for the company in any way, I actually didn't think this is the right matchup to go. Like I think you should just put him in there with anybody, really. Your goal in this whole situation is to get this man a win and do it as painlessly as possible. Maybe he gets caught. maybe he gets his chin tested just like we saw in the Vargas fight.

But there's a real world out there where Jordan Levin, Jordan Levin, really boring decision. Because none of this Pimblet mind game stuff, none of hometown crowd stuff, none of these London people getting absolutely bombed at 9 a.m. is going to affect Jordan Leavitt in any way. None of this is going to affect Jordan Levin. Jordan Levin does not care. When he says that this fight isn't interesting,

on paper or that this is just work for me. This is just another fight. He's not just saying these things to be cool. This is who he is. He truly means it. And he has been this way since he turned pro, since he was a one and no pro. This has always been that guy. He's always been the guy who twarks and splits and reads a thousand books a year. He's always been that way. And there's no pressure on Jordan Levin. None of it. All of it is on Patty Pimplet. But I am predicting Jedmishu, the most MMA thing that could happen here. Are you ready for this? Because on Twitter, on MMA decisions, everyone in the media, maybe outside of the UK media, we will see this fight for Jordan Levin after 15 minutes.

We're going to go on to Twitter and we're going to say 29, 28, Leavitt, not the fight we expected, but 2928 Leavitt. And Pimblit is going to get a controversial decision, probably a split. The London fans are going to go crazy. The rest of the world is wondering what these two judges, probably Chris Lee is one of them, who scored it for Patty. what friggin fight they were watching. Dave Portnoy is going to be looking like a London royalty person.

He's got to be wearing the suit and the three-piece and the hat and all that stuff. He's got to have a monocle on. He's going to be jumping out of his shoes. And we will have learned nothing in the process with this fight. So I will say clean sweep for those three, but it ain't going to be pretty either way. Except for Mahiaf, he's great. What an aside.

Great. Last thing on this card, because this card's awesome. It's a really good card on paper. We've talked about the big stuff. Give me your low-key-banger. What is the under-the-radar best fight of the night? You know, it's very, it's a great question because there are a lot of good ones here. But, man, I'm kind of inclined to say the curtain jerker, man.

I want to go with the very first fight of the night at Welterway between Claudio Silva and Nicholas Dalby. I mean, Dolby is always a guy who brings it in since coming back to the UFC after his Cage Warrior Stint. It's been in a lot of fun fights. You know, kind of a weird stretch there where he's got two no contests in his last five. One of those wasn't Cage Warriors,

but the Jesse Ronson won. And then just coming off the loss against Tim Means, I mean, he always brings it, always a fun time with him. Claudio Silva, this was a guy who had some kind of weird under the radar hype for a little bit there when he was on his long winning streak,

had the win over Leon Edwards and got, you know, ran it to James, Kraus suffered a loss there, and then his last time out against Cort McGee, two veterans there. So he'll be looking to get back in the wind column and kind of silenced the crowd, which I would imagine would be in favor of Dolby. And he's always kind of fun, too, you know, maybe gassed out a little bit in those last two fights, but as dangerous on the ground, isn't afraid to bang and we'll have to if Dolby's

coming in his face. So I don't know. I really like the first one, I think if I'm to pick out of these low-key fights that aren't really getting talked about and that should potentially be good, I think a good answer as well, especially on this card, which no one seems to be talking about, would be Paul Craig and Volcano Ousdemir, because Paul Craig is Paul Craig, and you never really know what's going to happen with him outside of getting beat up and maybe pulling off a submission, because that's kind of all he does. He's similar, that same category of fighters we talked about last week, Jed, with Brian

Ortega. They always lose until they win, Derek Lewis, Yoa Romero, maybe not to the same level, but he's been doing it pretty well lately. Very similar still. Yeah, so he's fun to watch. But in terms of a fight that I think we'll be more competitive and kind of crazy from both guys, I would go for the first fight, but I mean, Paul Craig against anybody, you're going to get that out of him,

I think, and that's always fun too. So I want to mention that. Mike, what's your low-key banger? Because I got to say, Drake, I do not agree that Nicholas Dahlby and the curtain jerkers the answer here. Well, I'm going to give you, like, the preview show answer,

and then I'm going to give you a direct answer. The preview show answer is Mach Watamier-Kani versus Jonathan Pierce, because this fight rules. It's Mr. Finland, Mr. Five Minutes, take it on JSP, because JSP, like, we will know after, like we'll know probably in the first four minutes what this fight's going to look like.

Either it's going to be over and mock what a mere con. Or Mr. Finland is about to be in a world of painful hurt because Jonathan Pierce is just going to wear on that man for the rest of the fight. Because we all know what happens when Amir Khanis around. So I'm curious to see if Amir Khani is, he could do it again and get a first round finish or if it's just going to be a rough, painful night for him.

But the correct answer, Jed, is the one that you skipped over. It didn't enough time. Because no one's really talking about this and they should be Chris Curtis looking to keep that undefeated street going against Jack or Manson. Like, I know losing a star in Darren Till hurts. I know a lot of hearts were broken. And I know a lot of people wanted to see Darren Till potentially in the corner of Chris Curtis. But that's not going to happen here.

Darren Till put out a statement. It would be disrespectful to Jack Herbanson to, like, pull out of the fight, and then corner Chris Curtis and pretend to be Sean Strickland. Like, I completely agree with Darren's coming from. Darren shouldn't take any bit of a hit or a beating on social media for this. Even Chris Curtis has come out and defended Darren and be like, it's want to do something nice for the hometown fans. But no one's talking about this fight because Darren Till's not in it anymore.

Jack Herbanson needs a win badly. He has been in some trouble. He has not looked great in these last fights. And Chris Curtis could find himself, maybe being a top 10 middleweight in the year of our Lord 2020. And I think he's a really good chance to win this fight. I think this matchup favors him really well. The fact that Sean Strickland just fought Jack Herbanson

and guess who Sean Strickland's main training partner is, Chris Curtis, who's actually in the corner of Sean Strickland. This is actually a tailor-made matchup for Chris Curtis. I just don't see a world where Jack Hermanson can really do a whole lot in this fight. I don't get a sneaky heel hook or a leg lock submission, but I don't see him being able to trick Chris Curtis down. I certainly don't see him out striking Chris Curtis. Like maybe he lands a big shot,

but Chris is durable. He's hard to take down. He's hard to finish. And if Rodolfo Vieira couldn't take him down and finish him, then I don't think Jack Kramance is going to be able to do it. But no one seems to be talking about this fight, really. It's the co-made event. We're talking about the main event.

We're talking about Patty Pibble and Jordan Levitt. But we've almost forgotten about this fight in a way because Darren Till's not a part of it anymore. So that is the correct answer. but if we're going like a little more hipster, a little deeper on the card, it's Machuanamir Connie, Mr. Finland, Mr. Five Minutes, taking on JSP.

Mike, well done, because you got it. Chris Curtis is fine, but the correct answer is obviously the Machuanamir Khan and JSP, because Makwana Mirkaner Kani has four minutes and 12 seconds of gas tank, and he's going to burn it all, baby. He is going for broke right out of the gates,

and that is obviously going to be the most, fun five minutes or less of a fight in the evening. And that's it. That's the end of the round, gentlemen, mainly because we're already 15 minutes over where we'd like to be at this point. So, you know, we had a lot to talk about. Good competitive round, but the winner of the point for this round. Cue the drummer. And new!

Mike Heck gets the point. A three to one victory for the man who created the show, Mr. Mike Heck. That's he very excited, Mike. He's taking it back. I'm stunned. I'm happy. I'm surprised. But I'm a little upset at the same time, Drake.

I'm a little upset. sometimes her Dean jumps in early you know yeah i mean listen this is this is yeah oh man i just listen i don't want people to to think this is a fixed thing that we're just we're just we're just we're just we're just rob and drake of this title i was kind of interested in the fan vote but listen i'm not the judge look if i'm just the guy if you want to put it up double or nothing we can do a k a round and listen listen there's a rules there's rules in WWF and UFC and all this stuff, but the referee's decision is final.

You made your decision, and I'm going to have to live with it. I'm going to toss and turn a little bit. And you know what? I'm going to offer, hold on, hold on. I'm going to offer something up right now.

I'm going to offer something up right now because I think we can put Drake on the old split screen here. We could put Drake on the old split screen here. Drake, here's what I offer you. Here's what I offer you. And I like, I like to be... What a music drop.

But one title is not enough. I'm looking for multiple titles. And I feel like you should have a title as well. So I'm going to use my time to call out the BTL tag team champions, A.K. Lee and Kristen King. And I am asking you, Drake Riggs, to be my tag team partner for this venture. You and I versus Team Horror. horror, horror.

Is it horror movie? Because they like the gory stuff. They like the blood and the guts. Kristen King and A.K. Lee. Heck and Drake. Drake and heck. A.K.K. Let's go.

What do you say? It would be an honor, Mike. Let's do it. I mean, I went from calling you out to being your partner. This worked out better than I thought, you know. Very pro wrestling. I'm in. Yes.

Let's go. Absolutely. Let's go. A.K., you're my best friend. But not on this show, baby. not on this show. Drake's my new best friend. He is the Corey Matthews to my Sean Hunter,

and we're taking you down. And my mantle's going to have so many titles on it. The BTL Wikipedia page is about to be busy. Let's go. Well, this works out perfectly because then it means I didn't have to come up with a knockout round question, which is the best,

because we already took a lot of time on this episode. You probably didn't even have one. That's why. Oh, I did. It just wasn't nearly as good because originally it was going to be Paint Me a Word picture on what it looks like if Nate Diaz wins, but then we covered that exhaustively. But for as much times we've spent, Drake, I'm still willing to give you 30 seconds to tell us

how you feel, man, you know? Well, I mean, I'm honestly not surprised. I did not expect to win this. I just wanted to shake things up and get out of your crosshairs, Jed. I mean, my good is we've been going back and forth for, what, six for me now in a row. So I'm more than happy to suffer a title. a loss to Mike and now be his tag deep partners. It's very cool. I just want to be a part of history, man. So this will be my first tag team match.

If they accept, Mike, we got to hear what they say first, but I'm in, man. Let's keep going. Keep rolling. I mean, you, you are absolutely making history. And after a competitive fight like that, we're going to have to run this back at some point. You know, you get the heel turn. Maybe you betray Mike in the tag team match. Can they coexist?

I mean, this is. This is, this is just a brilliant move on my part because with my, with my stubbornness and Drake's just long line of fans, there's no way we're losing. Like, there's literally no way we're losing. It's really true. It's impossible. We're, hold on, hold on. We're minus 950 favorites and future bets right now, Drake. I would have thought you'd be four digits.

And there's our, our executive producer, Mr. E. Casey Lydden. How are the people treating this casey? Oh, they absolutely love it. They're so excited. They're so excited. They watch this whole show so. They can wait for the final round and they just got taken from them. I know.

I swear to God. I know. This is all me. You can all hate me and I'm totally okay with it. But I want to say this. The poll, though, that I threw up at the beginning of the fourth round, who was today's winner, Mike Heck. well, I put, it was Drake Wiggs, Mike Kek, or a draw. It was a tie.

43% had Drake Wrigs, 43% had Mike Kek, and 12% had a draw. So, wow. That's even more perfect. Wow. Everything works out well. I'm telling you, man. I would hug you right now, Drake. I would hug you right now.

It's a virtual hug. Put my glasses on. Backwards hat. Let's go. The future tag team champions, baby. Right here. A.K. Kristen King, your move. The gauntlet has been thrown.

It was my absolute privilege to host this week, ladies and gentlemen. But we're over time. We got to get out of here. So for myself, for E. Casey Leiden, for Drake Riggs, for Mike HECC. And for the soon-to-be new tag team champions of heck-in-rigs, rigs and whatever we're calling it. Good night, everybody. It's a heckin big rig.

It's a heckin' big rig is a great name. Good night, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links. Hi, Mr. Lynn. And thank you for hosting Mr. No Gray Area, Jed Mishu. Happy birthday, EK! You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Caro, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences, behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome, and I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals. I guess that was the idea was to try something personal and see what happened.

And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and remember, so much happens before the chorus. Simons has your holiday outfits sorted. Be ready to wow in a wardrobe designed

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