MMA Fighting - BTL | Next For Miesha Tate, Grading UFC Vegas 43, Diaz vs. Askren, More | Tourney Match No. 4

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Where does Miesha Tate go from her #UFCVegas43 loss to Ketlen Vieira? Was the card as a whole as underwhelming as initially perceived? Those topics will be discussed on a brand new edition of BTL. In addition, the panel will talk what we learned from both 135ers in the main event this past Saturday, if the #UFC's final November event was a product of bad timing and oversaturation, the big wins for Sean Brady, Adrian Yanez and Taila Santos and which up and comer has the best chance to capture a UFC title first, the chances we could see Ben Askren actually return to the UFC for a fight against Nate Diaz, and much more. This week, host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA journalists James Lynch and Kristen King in the final opening round matchup of the BTL Championship tournament. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow James Lynch: @LynchOnSports Follow Kristen King: @KristenKingMMA Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links.

Yes, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a special Thanksgiving week edition of Between the Links. a couple of days early this week because of the holiday, give you folks some time to enjoy family and friends and football and feasts of plenty. But before we enjoy that time, we have one piece of business. We got to take care of. We got one more spot to fill in the semifinals of the BTL championship tournament. We punched three tickets so far.

Today we punch a fourth, and the winner will go on to face Jedmishu in two weeks time for a spot in the finals. A lot at stake here in this unofficial third meeting. between these two competitors. Only one of their matchups actually saw the light of day. The first time they squared off, it was mired with technical difficulties, so it never actually got released. And then a week later, they battled out again.

So let's see what happens this third time around. Let us introduce the competitors. First, you can find her work over at Bloody Elbow, a really great up-and-coming talent in our sport. A former colleague of mine is well over during the old fan-sided days. So just welcome back one half. one half of the BTL tag team champions of the world.

Kristen King, how are you? I am doing great. I couldn't believe that this was our third matchup between James and I, but you're right. The first one did not see the light of day, but I will give you a spoiler alert. James won that one. So I'm here to redeem myself. Hopefully I can get this win against James Lynch, but I know he's going to be a tough competitor, but I'm ready.

I'm ready for the challenge. There we go. I love the attitude. Dude, even the graphics were totally different back then, too. It was a long time ago. It was one of the early editions of the program. As we introduced, said James Lynch, another individual I've had the privilege of calling a colleague a few different times over the years. One of the few has actually appeared on every single iteration of this show from the early days where there's just like a roundtable show to the multiple person elimination show to now the one-on-one battles.

He's one of the best in the business. He's everywhere these days. The great James Lynch. How are you, man? Welcome back. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure and excited to be having a debate here with Kristen. I have a lot of respect for her work.

This will be a lot of fun. It will be a lot of fun. So let's get right into this thing and discuss the UFC's final event for the month of November this past Saturday. We'll begin with the main event between Ketland Vieira and Misha Tate. Vieira gets the win via unanimous decision. Competitive fight, but certainly no controversy in my eyes. This is a clear win for Ketland Vieira. You can make a strong argument.

She won all five rounds. I scored it 49, 46. but big win for Vietta and the first loss for Misha Tate since the comeback has begun. So Kristen, you won the blind draw this week. We saw these latest compete for 25 minutes on Saturday. We had a lot of questions coming into it. But in your opinion, did you learn more about Ketland Vieira or Misha Tate after that main event this past Saturday? I think I learned more from Ketland, but only slightly.

I recognize that she has adjusted her game plan a little bit. to, I guess, deal with somebody like Misha, and she did it in a more patient way. She said that, I believe, in her post-fight press conference, that she was a little bit frustrated by the way that her last fight went when I believe she lost against Yanukunitskaya. She was a little bit frustrated by that. So she adjusted her game plan. She fought smart. She fought patient.

I think she has all the tools to be a potential contender, but there is something that's missing. I don't know. It seemed like there were a few moments in the fight. against Tate where she could have really pulled the trigger she wanted to. And it seemed like she was just there, but she kind of pulled herself back. And I think maybe that was in fear of getting hit with something by Misha, who she says that her striking has improved. I thought it looked decent as well.

But I saw essentially what we already know about Misha Tate. So for me, Ketland-Biera furthered her case to be a contender, but there are some minor adjustments that she could do before she's even bolted into that conversation. James, what do you think? Because we saw this fight for 25 minutes. Both ladies go out there and compete. The sample size for Kettlin Vieira over the last three or four years, obviously much larger than the Misha Tate's sample size because Tate was gone.

She came back. We only saw the Marion Rennon fight. Viera's been obviously much more active. So what do you think about this? What did you learn more from? Who did you learn more from, Tate or Viera? Misha Tate easily. And for me, it's because of who Misha Tate fought in our last fight.

It was Marion Rineau. Renault was, you know, said before the fight, it was retirement. So you got to wonder where her headspace was at going into that fight against Misha. Obviously, she wanted to retire in a win. But, you know, I think it was just a bad style matchup for Marian in that fight. And the fact that Misha was able to take advantage, we sort of, you know, I think to a lot of people who are kind of like, oh, maybe Misha's back. But we really saw in this fight that she's not at that contenders level like she used to be. like when she was champion.

I think we learned that Misha, you know, the time off has caught up to her because this was a legit test for her. I think Marion Reneau, if she fought Caitlin Viera, I don't think a lot of people would be picking. and Marian in that fight. So I think what we really learned is that Misha, while it's great that she's come back and it's a great story and all the power to her for stepping back in there

after such a long layoff, I think she showed that she's not at that level anymore to be a contender in this weight class. And the reason I'm saying we didn't learn much about Ketland, it was a great performance, not taking anything away from what she did,

but we saw glimpses of this before. Remember when she was undefeated? Remember when she fought Irene Aldana and everyone was saying this was the girl to fight Amanda Nunes. Of course, Aldana spoiled those plans and finished Ketland VR early in the fight. She's had two bad nights at the office.

since then, right? The Aldana fight and then the fight against Kunix Sakaya, which you referenced, but I think overall, we knew that Ketland Vieira was still a pretty good fighter. It was just a matter of her, you know, putting it together in a particular fight, and this was the fight to do it. A main event, five rounds got to shoot. Remember everyone was talking cardio issues, all types of things going into this fight and Ketland Vieira signs a lot of those critics. And now she's put herself in that contender spot. In doing so, put Misha Tate, Fakapeg, so to speak. Obviously, the biggest win of Vieira's career for sure. She's in an interesting spot, but it's clear that the bigger story in the aftermath of this is,

is Tate losing more than Vieira winning. Where does she go from here? Because the big talking point coming into this fight, James, if Misha Tate wins, does she get the rematch with Amananonez for the title, assuming she beats Juliana Paine in a couple weeks? She comes up short here. So the question is now, she's one in one in the return. Where does she go now?

I think, Misha, I think if you're the UFC, what are you realistically getting out of Misha at this point, right? We know that they, I mean, if the UFC had it there way, let's be honest here, they would want Misha to have won on Saturday. And then they could set up the Nunes fight because it's a rematch. Misha's a former champion. And I think people also forget Misha fought Ronda Rousey. Like there is a lot of name recognition with Misha Tate when you see her fight.

Now that she doesn't have that, now that that fights out the window, so to speak, I think the fight you make is the rematch with Holly home. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of the wins and losses, but that was a fight, their first fight where Holly actually looked very good in that fight. It was just a matter of Misha getting the take down the second time and being able to land in the submission. That's a huge fight. Like if I'm the UFC, I want to be a UFC. get as much as I can at Amisha. Who knows how many fights she's going to compete in going

forward? I don't, I'm not interested in seeing her fight any up and comers. I think you cash in on the home fight right now because I think that's a fight that could actually, you know, headline a card. It could be a fight that you could put on a pay-per-view. It's an interesting rematch for both fighters because even, you know, even Holly is coming up a win, but how much longer can Holly compete at a high level as well? So that's the fight I think you do with Misha take going forward. I know some people suggested Aspen Ladd and some other options here, but I'm more interested in seeing that rematch and seeing how both fighters would do at their state. stages of their career.

Kristen, Misha has accepted this last well. No regrets onwards and upwards. I like her attitude of this whole thing. She seems like just being back in there, everything she's gone through to get to this point. She's a mom now. Her mind is clear. Distractions behind her.

She's playing with house money in a lot of ways. So if you had the almighty pencil, if you were in the mighty matchmaking seat, do you throw in there with Holly Holm? Does she take a step back? Do you use her star power to maybe put over other talent? Like, no one's like officially writing her off here. I know I saw a couple comments there. No one's writing her off.

But these are questions that are very important to ask after a main event like this. So what do you do with Misha Tate now? Yeah, I certainly don't want to write off Misha Tate by any means. I still think she looked good. It was a fairly competitive fight. So I guess moving forward, if she does want to continue to show that she can't compete at a high level, like she claimed she is, there was the whole Misha 2.0 thing.

And if she really wants to live up to that, I say still give her those talents that could test her, that upcoming talent that could possibly test her. And I feel like the seeds are already sown for a fight with Aspen Lad. I know James doesn't want to see that right now, but I think it would make a lot of sense. Depending on whether or not Aspen Lad is coming back down to 135, as you guys know, she was at 145 for her last main event outing against Norma Dumont. But if she does put in the work to reach 135 safely and in a healthy way, I think that makes a lot of sense, especially in light of some of the recent storylines surrounding Misha Tate and Aspen Ladd. I figure why not settle all your scores in the octagon? One can prove whether or not they're still at the top of this division. And I remember there was a time where Aspen Ladd, it seemed like she was like the next big thing. She hasn't really lived up to that just yet. So maybe she can prove herself against a vet. like Misha Tate. So I think Tate versus Ladd is the way to go. Those seems to be the top two options here. Someone want to jump in? Yeah, I don't think Aspen fights at 135 because I just don't think if you're the UFC and you're

looking at those last couple weight cuts, even going back to when she fought Jermaine de Randomie, that's got to be concerning. I don't think the UFC wants to go through that again. Every time Aspen Ladd's weigh in, everyone's on pins and needles just, you know, hoping that she makes it and it's not a scary situation. I know she's, I think she's only technically misweight a few times, but it's still one of those things, or just the one time, I should say, but it's just one of those things where you just, I don't think the UFC wants to risk that. It looks like 45 is a division they're trying to make work here. I think you keep Aspen lad in that spot. And also, I should know because I have it on good authority that I know Misha Tate was offered Aspen in the past, and that was

a fight that she wasn't interested in. So I don't even know if that's a fight that Aspen's team necessarily wants at this point. So I just, I don't think that happens next. And I also think the UFC wants something different for Aspen going forward in terms of trying to build her back up. Because Amisha Tate fight, she didn't get the win on Saturday. It's still a dangerous fight for Aspen to take at this point. Yeah, I mean, Misha Tate's a name. Throw in there with anybody.

People are going to watch and people are going to care. So obviously there's some options there. We'll see where Caitlin Vieira goes as well. She's kind of in a stalemate position in the Spanamoid Division. We have to wait and see how things play out. How long is Amanda Nune is going to stick around and defend that title? I don't know. I feel like Tate is the bigger story here.

Vieira just kind of stays where she's at. She gets a nice name to the resume, but she doesn't move up all that much, considering where this division's at right now. But let's move on to the reaction to the card itself and some tough questions. The point for round one goes to James Lynch on the board. It is one to nothing. Good round. Dust enough, taking the rust off a little bit.

Black Friday is here at IKEA, and the clock is ticking on savings you won't want to miss. Join IKEA family for free today and unlock deals on ever. everything from holiday must-haves to cozy at-home essentials, all the little and big things you need to make this season shine. But don't wait. Like leftovers at midnight, our Black Friday offers won't last. Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca. Black Friday.

Ikea. Bring home to life. It's week two of Canadian tires early Black Friday sale. These prices won't go lower this year. So you're lying on the floor? Save up the 50% November 13th to 20th. Conditions apply, details online. But here we go, round two. And I want to say this because it's very important to preface this question with something that I said on onto the next one a few days ago.

First of all, this is a valid question. And this was maybe the biggest question coming out of this entire event. And this is not meant to be a knock on any of the fighters who competed on Saturday because they went out there and they busted their asses and they put it all in the line. And sometimes as the cliche goes in MMA, styles make fights. Sometimes those styles create chaos, right? Other times it creates a battle of wills, and that's fine. But MMA, the UFC in particular, they have done what they have sought out to do. They have become one of the biggest entities in the sports world.

And to do that, you have to be treated like these other sports, like the NFL, like the NHL, like the NBA. This is what you wanted. So let me ask you this, James. The big question coming out of this event to bring it all home was, was this the worst card of the year? I'm going to phrase this in a different way in a moment we actually dive into this, but just in terms of the question itself, in MMA, is it fair to ask a question like that? Is it fair to ask if a card is bad or one of the worst of the year in terms of entertainment? Because people seem to not like that.

They don't think it's fair. Do you think that's a fair question to be asking after these events? Absolutely. I think we're all fans of the sport. We all remember the days of when they didn't have cards every weekend. So you were getting a bit more quality. I don't think it's any secret. I mean, the UFC has a deal with ESPN.

They have to put on a certain amount of cards. It's only natural you're going to get cards that maybe aren't as strong as others. And if you look at some of the pay-per-views we've had recently, it's understandable that some of these cards would not be as strong as they would be. You know, I equated to sort of, you know, you look at like the NHL, Mike, I know, your hockey guy like I am. You know, when you see a team come off a road trip off, you know, back-to-backs, and then they can play at home and they've had like a long stretch.

They're going to be a tired team. It's no different in this case. The UFC's having their own fatigue in regards to some of the matchmaking they've done. And so I think it's absolutely fair. Look, it's not necessarily crapping on the fighters, sort of, sort of speak. I think it's more of just a case of, look, I think there's certain fighters on the roster that maybe aren't UFC quality, and they have to put them on cards because they have to fill up cards. I don't think that's a secret.

It's, you know, we could go on a whole tangent here about how they, you know, sign contender to these fighters and they release, you know, some better fighters. But I think the reality is, of course you're going to have cards that aren't as strong. What do you think, Kristen? Because let's, for example, if the Patriots play the Giants, And the Patriots beat them like 7 to 3, which of course, the Patriots would win by much more than that. But for the sake of this argument, like say there's like seven turnovers in the game, a bunch of misfield goals. You know, it's an ugly game.

People are aware of how difficult football is. No one's saying like these athletes suck or anything of that. But if the game is bad, people just say it's bad. Like they'll go on SportsCenter and say this game was bad. Like it was not a fun watch. We're going to break down why this is so bad. Is it fair in MMA to ask these types of questions? Yeah, I think so. I think it is very valid. Listen, this is coming from someone who I try not to miss

a fight card just because I want to be sure that I know what's going on. And a lot of storylines that I give myself to pay attention to, I need to know the answers to those. So I don't necessarily miss a card. But when that card happens and you kind of reflect on what happened, it's kind of like, okay, was that good? Was that bad? Was it in the middle? I mean, it's perfectly reasonable to ask yourself that question. Of course, you never know going into a fight card what's going to happen or what kind of outcome is going to happen between these two prospects and stuff like that. But I think it's totally fine. You are the consumer of the product that they are giving.

And if that product does not measure up in that week, you are fine to question it. I have no issue with that. We're not disrespecting the fighters or anything like that. there much respect to them. I absolutely enjoy watching them throw down. But sometimes there are those moments where it's like, okay, that wasn't a very good watch. And I don't know how to feel about it. Yeah. And I see some of the comments being like, why say this is the worst? Just enjoy the M.A. I get it. So, but this was still a very trendy topic coming out of this card. So I'm going to ask a somewhat similar question because I think worst might be a little strong because this is MMA. And MMA is a,

what have you done for me lately what did you do last week kind of sport so we'll go with underwhelming christian ufc vegas 43 start to finish what would you grade it as a whole as an event is it one of the would you say this is one of the more underwhelming events of the year or is it more about the timing of it like james said coming off three monster weeks in a row three of the best cards of the year was the bar maybe said a little too high i think i'm going to tiptoe into both sides of it. I believe that it truly was underwhelming. I think someone in the comments mentioned that there was absolutely no promo for this fight. So for me, I just went

into the fight card with key fighters to look forward to. And some of them we didn't see. We didn't see a Terrence McKinney and what he would look like after a seven second knockout. Some we did see. We did see Adrian Yanez go the distance for the first time in his UFC career. And that was always interesting. We got to see Sean Brady potentially thrust himself in top 10 of the World War II Division. So I mean, yes, there were some things to pay attention to, but I also feel like it had the worst placement possible when you're thinking about the last few weeks that we had.

We had UFC 267, 268, back to back, and then we had Holloway versus Rodriguez. I don't know if I want to throw in, who came before at 267. I think it was Vittori and Costa. That fight card literally got no promotion until Fight Week with. the craziness that was Paula Costa's weight cut and that's what made a lot of people interested at that point. And the fight ended up being good for a debut between Vittori and Costa who had not competed at Lyeviweight. It was a really good fight. So you had those four fight cards happen. And then you have to follow it up with Vieira and Tate. And I think also it's heading into a

holiday week. We are in Thanksgiving week. So that obviously means that there's not going to be a lot of events to happen this Saturday or Friday or however many events that we usually get on the weekend. So at that point, it kind of bums me out because usually when you have a crappy fight card or I'm sorry, an underwhelming fight card, usually there's another one right after it that you're going to be like, oh, we're fine. This is the situation we find ourselves in because what happens next week? Joseo Alto Rob Font. We have Physiov versus Radell. We have Matt Brown and Brian Barbarina, there are so many fights on that card that you're like, oh, man, that's great. Once that fight card happens, I wonder if we're going to reflect on Vieira and Tate and say,

like, ah, it wasn't, it was bad, but now that we got this, we can completely forget it. I think recency bias is definitely a factor in here, because once we just consumed this product and we're left feeling underwhelmed, the next one comes along and we're like, okay, we can forget about that one now we can enjoy these new fights so it's a little bit of both it was underwhelming certainly but i also think the placement of the card after four straight weeks of fire and then some upcoming weeks of fire because right after the fight night card with aldo and font is ufccc9 yeah this card didn't really have a chance i don't think what do you think james just uh i mean obviously like we you both have mentioned 267 268 holloway rodriguez those are really good cards all three

of them. If you put this one like in a funnel, okay, by itself, like put it in a bottle and swirl around all by itself, taking the other three out of it. What do you grade it? Like if it's just on an island by itself, what do you grade it? I'm Canadian. I can't be that mean or rude. I'll go, I don't know, be, you know, just to be on the glass half full side of things. But I mean, part of it as well is you can put together a fight card that might not be that, you know, really sexy or really grab your attention. But they also, like there has to be, you know, some action as well. And we had just what, one finish on that card. I think that also hurt. it as well and it's not a fault of the fighters necessarily it's sometimes the matchmaking there's a

variety of reasons of why a card doesn't necessarily deliver what is supposed to deliver but i also think that you can't really you know at the same time you got to be honest about the product look i think if people want to get upset about you know grading a certain card or whatever you have to get mad at the people who say they're aren't even going to watch it and there's plenty of people like that that who say i'm not watching this it's terrible we all watched it okay so we did our part now we're allowed to digest it and be honest about it if you want us to lie about it we can do that too but i think people would rather hear the truth so again this is not on the fighters it's It's more on the fact that the UFC does so many events.

You're going to have cards that aren't strong as the others. And you mentioned that card coming up in a little bit. They could have spread the wealth on that a little bit. The fight you didn't, I don't think it's, I don't know if it's on that card or 269, but Jimmy Crude and Jamal Hills, a fight coming up pretty soon as well. That's a fight that would have really added some firepower to this card last weekend that, you know, again, I know there's timing and all that. And you brought up a great point as well, Kristen, about the promotion.

They got to do a better job of that. I know the fight was moved. It was supposed to be October 16th between Tate and Vieira. But still, you got to get something in there. kind of get, you know, people hyped up. You know, this is, emphasize more that this could be a title shot for Amisha. It could be a rematch. I didn't see a lot of that going in.

So the UFC's partially to blame for that as well. Yeah. That was the 10th week in a row. 10th Saturday in a row with cards. So I think the break is coming at the perfect time. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. And to James's point, Jed Mishu was on this show last week and basically said, do anything else. Go with your friends, go with your family.

Just go to M.A. fighting and just follow along. No need to watch the card. That's what he literally said. And people are actually like celebrating those thoughts. So there you go. You got to find a lane and stick in there. But I think it's a combination of a high bar, some oversaturation in a funnel by itself.

It may age a little better. And there were certainly some good stories, some developing stories that came out of that event. And we're going to talk about some of those stories right now in round number three. But the point for round two goes to one half of the BTL tag champs bringing the heat with the candyman t-shirt. Kristen King. It's one to one. So we're going to continue on the UFC Vegas 43 train because there were three very promising up-and-comers who were on this card. They all picked up big wins on Saturday. They all remained on

hot streaks. We have Sean Brady, defeating Michael Kiesin, the co-main event. Got a little hairy down the stretch, but he comes away with the biggest win of his career. Tyler Santos goes in there and runs through Joanne Wood, drops her multiple times, which not a lot of people can say that they've been able to do, and then submits her in the first round, and then Adrian Yonnas kicked off the main car with this fourth straight bonus, fight of the night, tough decision went over Davy Grant,

which, by the way, we can't talk about this fight without talking about one of the all-time worst scorecards in MMA history, the 30 to 27 scorecard for Dave Grant. Absolutely horrendous. But nevertheless, Kristen, before we get into the meat and potatoes of what this discussion is going to be, there was a finish sandwich between these, two hard-fought decision wins.

But it was three different fights altogether. So who impressed you the most on Saturday? Sean Brady, Tyler Santos, or Adrian Yannos? I think I'm going to have to go at Tyler Santos because it was just, at least not the finish, but the buildup before the finish where she dropped Joanne Calderwood twice. Could not believe that. It was completely unexpected for me. So I personally think she had the most impressive win.

And she is like a sneaky contender. She is just slowly racking up them wins. And soon enough, I think we're going to have to start talking about Tyler Santos as a contender for Valentina Shepchenko. And it's not so far-fetched at this point because you really think about it, maybe one, two more wins. She could be there. That could be a fight to happen in 2022. And I wouldn't be upset about it as long as Tyler Santos continues to look impressive. I mean, she beat someone who was a wooded.

be title contender. There was a time where Joanne Calderwood, I'm sorry, Joanne Wood, she's married now. Joanne Wood was set to challenge Valentina Chivchenko for a title shot. That didn't happen. I believe it was an injury on Valentina's part, so

Jojo said, I still want to fight, so let's pair me up against Jennifer Maya and what happened? She lost that fight. So she was there, she was at the cusp of a title shot. So for Tyler Santos to just completely blitz through her like that, that Tyler Santos has my respect.

Tyler Santos is probably going to be one of those contenders and potentially a title challenger by this time next year. James, what do you think? Because you look at things from even a betting perspective, right? Like the Kiesa Brady fight was the closest line fight of the three. Yannes was a massive favorite. Even Tyler Santos on short notice was a massive favorite over Joanne Wood. I actually thought she should have been a bigger favorite.

No disrespect to Joanne Wood. I just thought her style compared to Joanne's. it was just a bad recipe for Joanne. But Brady comes in against the number six guy, gets the win. So of the three performances, which one impressed you the most? I agree with Kristen. I'm going with Tyler Santos as well for a couple different reasons. I actually picked Joanne Wood,

and it's not just because I picked her ahead of the fight. I couldn't believe the odds were so spread out because one of the things with Santos going into that fight was the level of opposition she fought leading in. I mean, she had some wins over like Gillian Robertson, fighters that aren't really considered contenders. But Joanne Wood has been in there, was some of the best. A lot of title challengers, you know, her last opponent was a title challenger

and Lauren Murphy, Joanne Wood that was. So I know she was the biggest betting favorite out of the three. I think the closest one, like you said, was Brady and Kiesa, and then you had Yonnas winning as well. The thing that was so impressive to me was the fact that she dropped Joanne Wood in the fight. And, you know, Joanne Wood's a very good striker. She's been in there, you know, with some of the best. And she's also someone that has, you know, been pretty durable throughout her career. I know She has a few submission losses to, I think, who is it, Marina Romeroz? And there was Andrage as well. But I think in general, we hadn't seen that happen too often.

Maya is another one that finished her as well. But to me, it was just the way that Santos just sees this opportunity. And I think the other thing we got to look at as well is the division, right? Brady beating Michael Kies is great, but it's a stacked division. So I don't know how much it's really going to move him up in terms of, you know, where he's at. He is undefeated, but I don't think it means too much. With Yanez, he's just going to get into the rankings with that win, I would think. But if you look at Santos, like the fact that she beat Joanne Wood the way she did,

you know if Joanne Wood did the same thing to her, she's automatically getting that title shot. I don't think it's out of this world to say Santos fights for the title next. To me, there's just a few other contenders. There's Mano Ophirio. There's also Andrea Lee, who got a big win over Cynthia Calvio. And you've got Jessica Androj hanging out there. I don't think she's going to get a title shot because she just fought recently, but for the title. So I think you could make a strong case for Santos with what she did on Saturday.

So to me, you know, she's the biggest betting favorite. It's how she finished the fight and how she sees that operative. that puts me as the big winner at UFC Vegas 43. Now, all three of these fighters have bright, bright futures, as we've all alluded to. They have very high ceilings, but how high are these ceilings and how quickly can these ceilings be reached? So James, in your opinion, and I agree with you, you could throw Tyler Santos into a title fight right now and no one bad an eye about it.

Of course, I don't know if the UFC is going to be so keen on that. Maybe they got other plans. Maybe we run the trilogy with Amanda Nunes, because Valenz's. was spitting some hot fire in the M. May hour about that idea, but in your opinion, right now, not who's got the best chance of fighting for the title, which of these three fighters, Brady, Santos, or Yannas has the best chance to become a world champion and do it first? I'll go Santos. I know that's crazy to say, but, you know, to me, it's just the fact that I think at some point, Valentina, at some point, something's got to happen here, you know, and I think if you look at

Waltoyer right now, Usman's, you know, dominating. Maybe there's a new champion there that, that could potentially happen. I just think with Brady, like, he showed a bit of weakness in that third round against Kiesa, and to me it wasn't a flawless performance. You're on the same thing. Like, he went the distance in the fight. I know Davey Grant's one of those guys that, you know, on paper you think you're going to beat him and then he comes out and knocks you out like Jonathan Martinez.

But I think in general, it's just, I think Santos, really just with her age and everything else, I think there's so much potential for her to potentially go out there and get it done as his title challenger. So I'm going to go with her. Maybe recancy bias here, but I guess they were all in the same card. But in general, I think Santos has the best shot. What do you think, Kristen? Because tough waters to navigate for all three, if we're being honest,

especially with Schochenko being the world beater that she is, Kamar Usman being the top pound for pound fighter on the planet right now. Those are two of your champions. And then 135 is just an all-out deep water shark tank that is just, it just keeps coming and coming and coming. And the challenge is going to get tougher and tougher and tougher. So which of these three fighters do you think has the best chance of becoming a world champion first? Brady, Yonnas, or Tyler Santos.

Yeah, I hate to do it, but I am in agreement with James. Let me just say, I absolutely hated this question. Because when I think about the future right now, I can make a case more for Santos. But when I think about who the champion is, it just seems like, okay, she could have a shot. But knowing who Valentina Shepchenko is, it could be very difficult. I would have chosen Sean Brady had it not been for that third round against Michael Kiesa, because there left some things to be desired for me personally. I'm very high on Sean Brady and what he brings to the Welterweight division.

And I think that this was supposed to be maybe like a showcase fight to be that next contender at Welterweight. And then I saw some things that needed tuning, the striking defense, maybe some, some, some cardio he could work on because if Michael Kiesa had a few more seconds, we may not be having this conversation at this point. So, and then with Adrian Yanez, I think he's setting himself up so well for those fighters at the top of the division. I think he did an interview with you, Mike, where he was like, from a boxing standpoint, I think I have a really good chance against Peter Jan. And I was like, I'd like to see it, but it wouldn't necessarily be totally boxing. But I think with a win over someone like Davey Grant, he can definitely vault himself into the top of the

division. But like you said, band weight is so deep. It has so many interesting characters. And I think it could be a little bit longer for him. So I have to go with Tyler Santos. Yeah, it's a real interesting conversation to have right now because I like Brady's approach. He's not rushing to the belt, but he wants a main event fight. He wants to go five rounds. He wants to test himself. And I think probably Tyler Santos needs to go through that as well before she fights Valentina. Like go through a five round war, see what happens and see if you can go that extra distance because it's not easy to get in there and go five rounds for the first time, like with all the media, all the cameras, with a world title on the line. So I mean, and we, we had that problem

with Zabit. Like we're thinking about is Zabit next for a title shot when he was on his run. And everyone was like, we got to see him go five rounds first. We got to see him go five rounds first. So unfortunately, we haven't had that chance since the Calvin Cater fight. But we'll see what happens. We're going to move on to a topic on this program. I didn't think we're going to be talking about until a couple of hours ago. But the point for round three goes to, got to give it to Kristen. I didn't think we'd have so much agreement on this program.

But here we are. Let's move ahead to this topic. I can't believe this is a thing. But happy Thanksgiving, everybody. So if you missed it, just to lay down the groundwork, because I know it's the holiday season. So Twitter has been Twitter over the last couple of 48 hours. So Nate Diaz likes to jump in when he can. He's very smart, very prolific when it comes to his social media entries.

People are going to write headlines about it. He's very smart with that. So he goes in, takes a shot of Jake Paul on Twitter, mostly for beating Ben Ascrant, beating a wrestler, if you will. So Jake Paul, of course, and Jake Paul style responds saying that Nate has six times as many losses as Ben Ascran. and Nate then responds, doubling down, that Ben Ascran sucks and that Jake would get smoked in a real fight. Now, that's, I guess, kind of interesting in its own way

because both those guys create a lot of buzz for some reason. But things got much more interesting when Ben Ascran finally gave his thoughts on the proceedings, and we were waiting for it. He didn't let us down. He took to Twitter and said, quote, Nate is right. I suck at boxing. He sucks at MMA.

If he wants me to prove it, I could be in the USADA pool tomorrow. would be happy to be the last fight on this contract. James, did this exchange, most notably the response from Ben Ascran? Did this get you excited in any way? No. I mean, you're seeing two fighters that are, I mean, especially in Ascran's case. I mean, you saw that Jake Paul fight, not in shape. He's had obviously hip issues.

Like, we're not even getting the Ben Ascran that was, you know, fighting Mosswoodal at this point. We're getting a Ben Ascran that's taken a lot of damage throughout the years and it's finally caught up to him. I just, I don't really have an interest in this fight. It's not even like a case of where like, you know, Nate could have like a puncher's chance like Mosphidal and like, you know, knock him out or something. Nate's not really like that. I know he rocked Leon Edwards in that fifth round, but I just, yeah, I just don't have any interest in seeing Asker and compete in any sort of combat sport going forward after what we saw against

Jake Paul. And I don't think he needs to. I mean, Asker made good bank against Jake Paul. Like, it seems like he's doing some good stuff business wise outside of what he's been doing in MMA. So I just, yeah, I don't care to see this fight. If Nate wants to go box, that's different. I'm fine with going to watch him box some of these.

YouTubers, but once his UFC contract's done, but for now, I don't, I don't really have any interest in him having an MMA fight against Ascran. What do you think, Kristen? Did, is Kristen King the MMA fan salivating over a possible Ben Ascran versus Nate Diaz fight? Not in the slightest. I think the exchange was funny. I thought that was quite, you know what? Ben Ascrant is very fast.

Did you also see the follow up video that he put up when he said a real man runs toward a challenge and a coward runs away from it? referencing Masvidol trying to do the knee against Nate and Nate kind of just backed away. I thought that was funny. That is kind of funny. But in terms of a competitive standpoint, no, I don't want to see Ben Asking versus Nate Diaz. I mean, we're talking about Nate Diaz, who he may not have the best record right now. But we're talking about someone who has just been recently tied to Leon Edwards, somebody who is probably going to challenge Kamar Uzman for the title next year, God willing, because we know with Leon Edwards, there's a lot of stuff that happens

and it just doesn't happen for him. There is Vicente Lucay, who directly called Nate Diaz out. And for a minute, there looked like there could be a fight between those two. That didn't happen as well. And then we have Hamzat Shima, who Dana White wants to put Nate Diaz up against. And I mean, if you want to do it from a wrestling perspective, because we know Nate Diaz is history with wrestlers, he's not very, not very good against him. So if you want to send him, him out of the company on a loss and you think that Ben Aspen is the guy to do it, sure, but no, I necessarily, I don't want to see that. Don't want to see it, don't need it.

His last fight was what, 2019 against Damien Maya? No, thank you. I've had enough. I think you did great with your exploration into boxing, I guess, with the Jake Paul fight, stay over there. I think you did enough. You did enough. We don't need to see it again.

All right. we understand what Ben Ascran's approach was to that fight. It was to get paid. I mean, the guy just had back surgery and he's going into a boxing fight, and we saw the shape he was in. He got in enough shape to make it to the scale and make it to a fight. And that's that. But I guess nobody really wants to see it here.

But let's put ourselves in the UFC shoes, Kristen. Because, like you said, Nate has one fight left on the deal. You could, like you said, go the pro wrestling route, give Nate a Shemai of an up-and-comer to try to get that up-and-comer. perhaps, or you can just go crazy and book a crazy fight between two guys who can promote the hell out of it and you can sort of milk whatever is left out of both of these guys in the MMA space because there is a lot of money to be made outside of the UFC if you're Nate Diaz. So if you're the UFC right now, are you sitting in Dana White's war room office with the big

art of war sign, a book he's never read by the way, because he's done interviews saying he's never read it, are they in this room pondering this idea? Are they getting on the horn with Ben Askerd right now to see who he's actually serious about diving back into this USada pool? I would hope that. No, that'd be, no, that'd be one wasted phone call. I don't think that they're going to tap Ben Askren for the task of dealing with Nate Diaz at this point. I think the UFC and the rest of the UFC brass kind of have their mind set up on what they want to do with Nate Diaz. And remember, Dana White is the same person that says Nate has to question whether or not he still wants.

to compete against these guys at the top of the division. So to go completely opposite of that and then pair him up with someone who hasn't necessarily, he hasn't fought in an MMA setting since 2019. That would be ridiculous. That would be absolutely absurd. And I highly doubt that Dana White saw Ben Ascreen's tweets or series of tweets and said, you know what? Let's give him a shot.

Let's put him back in the Usada pool and he's going to take on Nate Diaz. No, thanks. James, you seem to be on the same page. You don't think there's any chance they're on the horn with Askins people right now, trying to heed one of those. You sought exemptions at him trying to move this process along to try to make something happen. Do you think, is this a 0% chance? Or, I mean, we've seen the UFC do some crazy things.

Is this a 0% chance that they're even thinking about this? I'll say 0.1%. Remember, Ben technically owes Dana some money because I think Dana bet on him in that Jake Paul fight, right? So he didn't exactly live up to his end of the bargain of getting the fight done. But no, I think honestly, like, I think you saw what the UFC thought of Ben Ascran after losing the Mosphal. Like, if they had any idea that he was any sort of a draw, you're not booking him against Damien Maya.

To me, that was just a sign that, look, we got what we needed out of you. You made Mossadol a star, which I think people forget about that. If that fight never happened, Mossfell doesn't get the BMF title, et cetera. But still, like, I don't think the UFC values Ben Ascran as a commodity. And also, like, I don't think the fact. fans do either. Him losing to Jake Paul. Like Ascran, who's a pretty active guy on social media, went pretty silent after that fight. And for good reason, I mean, if he didn't lose enough stock as it was losing to Masadol, he lost even more losing to a YouTuber. So I just think

the UFC looks at this and they're just going, ah, you know, it's, you know, good for them. They're having this war, but like on Twitter, but I just don't see this as a possibility at all. I think for Nate's last fight, I've always said this. The Diaz brothers, in my opinion, they're trying to get out of their contracts. They're trying to go and box these YouTubers because they're looking at some of the money that's being Nate over there. and they're like, hold on a second here. I'm fighting in the UFC. I'm not getting paid nearly as much,

and I still got to fight really good guys. I can go fight a YouTuber. So I think for Nate, I think UFC knows he wants out. I know obviously they want to get something out of them. There's lots of things you can do with Nate Diaz, but Ben Ascrum would be very low on the list here. Tony Ferguson, why not do that fight?

Get Tony to come up to 170. You know, Ferguson's on a bit of a skid as well. That would be a fun fight and a fresh matchup for the fans. That's the type of fight you should make for Nate Diaz because it has zero impact on either division. And I think that's the way you got to go. Do you like that idea, Chris? Do you like Nate versus Tony or do you like something else for Nate on this final fight?

I love Nate versus Tony. I think that's a phenomenal fight. I think it's been a while since we've seen Tony. I think his last fight was the Justin Gagey fight, and there was a lot of scary moments in that. So we do want to make sure that Tony Ferguson is fully recovered from that fight and the damage he sustained in that fight. But if he does come back, I'm more than happy to see him versus Nate. If you want to throw a curveball and just finally complete the trilogy between him and Connor at some point, a lot of people have been asking for that.

And I find it hard to imagine that they're not going to capitalize on that, especially with this being Nate's last fight on his recent contract. Connor needs a win. I could see that happening again. But I think Nate versus Tony is the way to go. But if you want to go a little bit more outfield, I guess you can do finally Diaz versus McGregor three. Because they've been clamoring for that for years and nothing has really come of it. So that would be also a good pick.

It's good house money fight. Unfortunately, I just got to mention this. Hate to interrupt being the rude Canadian. But Tony fought Darius and then he fought Olavera before that. So he's actually, if you remember, Ferguson actually fought back in May. So I know it seems like an eternity because we haven't seen him earlier this year. But either way, I think it adds even more to the fact that Tony's not what we thought he was at this point. And I think injuries and age have sort of caught up.

Sorry, I just had to mention a little tidbit. Yes. I was actually about to say the same thing. But it's okay. I like the fight. It's a house money fight and people will care about it and people will watch. That's a co-main event for any card. And I think people would be excited.

As people will be excited to find out what happened in this fourth round. Point for round four goes to. Goes to James Lynch. It's two to two. And in a shocking revelation here on between the links, we're going to the knockout round. All right? One question decides it all. Each participant will have the opportunity to take one minute to answer.

answered the question. Once that is done, we will turn out over to the most powerful man in in MMA media, the judge, the jury, the executive producer, E. Casey Leiden, there he is in the bottom corner of your screen. He will weigh out the options with the help of the live studio audience watching the program right now. We'll crown a winner that will move on in two weeks time to take on Jed Michoud. We went to the computer, typed in random names. Kristen, you were the name that came up as a matter of fact. So you have the option. Do you want to go first or do you want to pass it on over to James? I will do the friendly Canadian thing without actually be Canadian and send it over to James. He can go first. Cool. Yes. Show showcase showdown style.

Now, I think this is the second time that we have done it between the links on this week in terms of being Thanksgiving week and all. So this is a pretty simple question, James. All right? We're just You're going to carry on the tradition in the Thanksgiving way. I know your Thanksgiving happened a month ago, but here in the United States, we like to go around the table during dinner time, talk about what we're thankful for. And since this is an MMA show,

we're going to put one minute on the clock. And in this one minute, I need you to let the people know what about MMA makes you so thankful. What do you thankful for this time of year when it comes to the wonderful sport of mixed martial arts? One minute on the clock, your time starts now. I'm thankful for the fact that we have a sport where fighters are accessible.

And I think if you look at a lot of other sports, it's not the same way. And Mike, let's be honest here, we would not have jobs if we weren't for the fighters and the management's and the people that do make this sport and get it promoted. And I just honestly, like, I'm super thankful, super grateful to fighters that do take their time to speak to me because, you know, again, they have training, they have families, they have so many other things going on. And I'm just very much thankful for the access that we get. And I'm just thankful that they're willing to choose this as a career.

It's an extremely tough sport. It's one of those sports that you're not doing it for the money. You're doing it for the love of it. And there's not a lot of payoff. There's no pension plan. There's no retirement. A lot of what these fighters put on the line is for our enjoyment. And I'm just so thankful that they've decided to choose this as a career.

And two, the fact that they're willing to take their time and speak to us. Because a lot of them are really cool. And you can even ask the fans, how many professional athletes will respond to DMs? Fighters are unlike anything like that. They do it all the time. Just look at someone like Adrian. and Janice, who went on the weekend. He's a popular MMA Twitter guy.

I think that's great. And I'm just thankful that we have fighters that are easily accessible to us. There you go. Kristen, I don't know how you feel after that one minute. Do you feel like you made the right decision? Do you feel like you should have taken it first? But we'll find out.

Same question for you. We are 48 hours away or so from us sitting around the table and answering these questions in a real way about family and friends and things that make us grateful. But in terms of MMA, this wild and crazy journey we are all on, what makes you thankful about mixed martial arts

and the year of our Lord, 2021? Your time starts now. I am thankful for the overall growth of the sport. I feel like there was a time probably not when I was born because I am still fairly young. But there was a time where mixed martial arts was not available for a lot of things. I mean, you had to rent out these videos on VHS and stuff like that if you wanted to watch mixed martial arts now,

there is an embarrassment of riches when it comes to fighting, when it comes to fighters. There are so many different promotions, so many different spotlights to be shown on a lot of these fighters. And we get to see that on a regular basis. I absolutely love going into a fight card knowing that there are so many storylines that I can follow. And it keeps me interested as a fan and to know that I have several options. UFC could be on Saturday. Belator could be on Friday. I could have Compete Americas on Friday. They're so, much to enjoy from this sport. I never get tired of it personally, and I'm just so happy to be enveloped in all that is the good of MMA. And Camel McLaren says, MMA fighting never mentions

Kambacha. You just heard it right here on Between the Links, Camel McClaren. Retweet that, retweet that, Campbell, quote tweet it. Say nobody talks about it. We just did. Right here. On Between the Links, The People Show. We got a lot to think about here. It's a very busy week here in our lives. Thanksgiving right around the corner. I'm just trying to waste time as these votes come in from the live studio audience. Quick, cheap plug. If you guys haven't read it yet or you haven't watched yet,

I spoke to Kay Hanson, one of the most eye-opening interviews of my entire career. Incredible stuff. Incredible bravery, incredible honesty about some struggles that she has. And at just 22 years old, it was just, I mean, it was just minding. mind-blowing to hear her talk so so passionately and so eloquently about such a difficult situation. So if you haven't checked it out or read it, the write-ups basically in her own words. So go check that out. But in the meantime and in between time, Casey, we turn it on over to you, the toughest role in the sport right now.

You get two worthy competitors. Only one can move on to face Jed Mishu in two weeks' time for the opportunity to get get one step closer to win the coveted BTL undisputed championship. Casey, who is that individual? This one's tough. This one's really good. It was, oh, man. I was, oh, geez, this job sucks.

I don't like this. Oh, man. I mean, obviously the fighters were always super grateful of fighters and the sacrifices and the, the crap they have to put up with from the media fans promoters the Kristen talks about just just the abundance of MMA across the world and different promotions and just we have just so many different fighters from all over the world and different promote and different different looks different rings different

everything oh that's a good that's a big part of MMA that's a big part of what I love the MMA too oh okay flip a coin over here off camera All right, all right, all right, got to pick someone. I have to pick someone. Dang it. Yeah. Now, usually I kind of BS these a little bit, like, oh, it's a tough decision, but I know who won, but I'm really kind of screwed right here.

I do not know. Use the people. I know who we got. I mean, look, what we got. Yeah, most people are saying it sucks to be Casey right now. Yeah, all right. Okay, okay. You're a winner.

Her O has got to go. Kristen King. on the board one win now you're back baby wow it was tough it was tough it was I didn't I'm sorry James I don't know it's okay I think you knew that because I'm Canadian I'm not going to get mad so easy easiest choice

Kristen would cause a stink let's be honest here I thought you were gonna I thought you were gonna pull the old draw card I wanted to do a draw I wanted to it was a tournament I can't do no draws like I thought you're gonna set up a triple It's all good. You have the power, Casey.

You're in a power. I'm just going to call you Tony weeks from now. And that's okay. Fair enough. It's harsh, but, hey. That's a jab. That's a little jab. That was overhand right.

That was a, that wasn't a jab. That was overhand right. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Silent jab. Yes. Kristen, you know how this works. You get 30 seconds to talk about it as you, whatever it is you want to talk about.

Maybe you want to take this time to send a. message to one Jed Mishu, who you're going to share this virtual arena within two weeks time. Yeah, well, first, we'll get to that. But first, I want to say, I am more than happy to share a win with Mr. James Lynch, somebody I just admire. And this was great. I love our dialogue. I am happy to do this. I'm happy to get a win against someone I respect so much. So thank you for the challenge, James. It was honestly such a pleasure to do this. And now when it comes to Jed Mishu, I guess I'm going to have to go to one of those rent-a-suit places and get me a nice suit too so we can both.

I don't know. It was giving very much men in black, so maybe I should join and dress for the job that I want, and that is to take you out so you do not reach a final. I know you're looking past me. I know you're looking past everyone else, and you want Phoenix, but you got to get through me first, and I am up for that challenge. So I look forward to it, Jed. I really do.

That is a hell of a promo right there, Kristen King. I amamped up. Wow. I amped up. James, you never know, buddy. I mean, listen, Daniel Cormier made a name for himself being an alternate. Maybe someone at some point can't make it, and we need an alternate to step in and save the day.

So the door is not completely closed. It's like the ultimate fighter. But any final comments, any thoughts? on this battle. It was a good one. It was a great battle. Of all people, to have an elegance. Kristen, I mean, a lot of respect for the work she's doing. So, yeah, honestly, super happy for her.

I'll be rooting for her in the next round. And, yeah, just thankful for you guys for having me on here. I know our Thanksgiving was a month ago. It doesn't mean I can't be thankful here. So I appreciate you guys having me on and the opportunity. And I don't know what to say. What am I supposed to say at this thing? Do you want me to be Sally Field?

And I'll just sort of ramble on here. Probably not. So I'll just keep it as it is and just say, I hope everyone has a very safe Thanksgiving and don't underestimate gratitude. It's one of the most underrated traits we have. Use that a lot in the next little bit. If I can give you some serious advice, that's it right there. Hell yeah, everybody.

Two of my favorite people in the industry. It sucks to see somebody take the L, but I think we're all winners. I think we're all winners after a matchup like that. Positiveity. We're not. I'm a loser today, Mike. It's okay. It's fine.

Not right here, James. Not right here. Not right here. But we are. Not are you. But we are getting out of here, everybody. Thank you for watching. Enjoy your week, especially if you're celebrating Thanksgiving.

Enjoy it. Enjoy that extra time with family and friends. Take some time off from the mixed martial arts world. And just like James said, gratitude is everything. Enjoy it. Cherish it. Godspeed to you all. So for Kristen, for James, for Casey on the ones and twos, I am Mike Eck.

I believe the iconic voice of Esther Lynn is going to take you home. We'll see you back here next week once again. Between the links, the semifinals begin. Kay Lee versus Phoenix Carnivali. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Lakes. Have a great Thanksgiving. This is Astraland.

Yes, it is. It's definitely her. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.