MMA Fighting - BTL | O'Malley vs. Dvalishvili, UFC 306 Expectations, Brady & Nurmagomedov Shine

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

Sean O'Malley and Merab Dvalishvili will finally lock horns in the main event of UFC 306 this Saturday at Sphere in Las Vegas for the UFC bantamweight title. O'Malley is already ascending to becoming one of the top stars in the company, and if he wins, the rockets will likely be strapped to him on the way to superstardom. Will the same happen with Dvalishvili if he wins? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discuses the highly anticipated main event between O'Malley and Dvalishvili, where the winner goes, and what it does for their respective careers. Additionally, topics may include the expectations for the UFC's one-and-done at Sphere, if they can be reached, the co-main event between Alexa Grasso and Valentina Shevchenko, Sean Brady and Usman Nurmagomedov's big wins at UFC Vegas 97 and Bellator San Diego, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Morning Kombat's Luke Thomas. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Luke Thomas: @lthomasnews Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. Happy UFC 306 Eve, Eve, everybody. Hope you're all doing great. We have one hell of a show today on the road to the UFC's debut at the Sphere.

We have a very busy weekend in combat sports. Bellator has a card on Saturday. If you didn't know, now you do. We got Canelo versus Belanga on Saturday night as well. A lot to be amped about. So let's get into this thing and introduce the combatants for this exciting BTL trilogy matchup. First, he's the hot take kid.

He's Mr. No Gray area, the cannibal kid, the Barrettaboop. And the man who loves a good John Jones is the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world discussion as much as anybody from MAAfighting.com. Mr. Jetmishu, where is he? Hello, sir. How are you? Hello, Mike.

I'm so excited. I get to see you in like 36 hours or something like this for UFC 306, play a little golf, and then watch party it up. It's going to be a good weekend. It sure is. And it's going to be a great Thursday, too, because back on the show, and this is always a real treat, a man, with so many plaques and awards from the multi-time champion to morning combat program. with Brian Campbell.

He's the live chat legend. Emmanuel has a fantastic YouTube channel as well and just a damn good analyst and a hellful guy to. Just a delight to welcome back to crystal clear looking Luke freaking Thomas to the program. Luke, how are you, sir?

Old and washed, but otherwise happy to be here, my friends. It's great to have you here. It's great to have you here as well. Jed Casey on the ones and twos. Well, look, there's a lot of fight talk to be had and we're certainly going to get there, gentlemen. but one of the most intriguing aspects about this weekend,

one of the big questions about UFC 306, Noce UFC presented by Read season and all the other names that it has, will it live up to the hype and not just in terms of the action in the octagon, but all of it, the aesthetics, the production, will it live up to everything Dana White says it's going to be the greatest combat sporting experience,

greatest combat sporting event, one of if not the greatest live sporting events ever, just in all of sports, first and only card at the sphere. And being sort of a production and aesthetic nerd as I am, I'm incredibly intrigued about what this is all going to look like and feel like watching it, et cetera. So Luke, I'll begin with you. What's the biggest question you have about this card

from that aspect of it? Because certainly big main event, great co-main event. I think the final four fights are really, really good. But with all the sort of aesthetic promises, Luke, what, there you are. What's your biggest question about it? Probably the same one that you have, which is to what extent can they pull off what they have with the sphere. I mean, one of the things that Dana White has even mentioned, you guys, I'm sure have heard,

which is that they don't have an external trust where they put the lights on to light the octagon. They've had to sort of like figure out a different way to light the octagon in order to see it. Now, this is a smaller concern among much significantly bigger ones. And the hype that they have put on it into UFC individually, I don't know if they can live up to all of that. but I don't know if you guys have been to the sphere. I've actually seen a show there and it's hard to explain how incredible this place is until you've seen it. I know folks are tired of hearing that. They're like, who cares?

How good could it be? Blah, blah, blah. We don't care. We want a different fight card. I understand some of those complaints. But I cannot overstate to you. Like, Las Vegas sucks ass. It's a terrible town.

You should never, ever go. There's nothing redeeming about it whatsoever, except for two things. Number one, they have 24-hour drive-thru marijuana stores. That's real. They actually do have those. And number two, they have the sphere. And the sphere is absolutely unlike any other place, any other venue I've ever been to in the world. There's truly nothing like it.

It is so breathtaking and captivating what they're capable of doing there, at least from what I saw of it, that I always tell people, if you happen to be in Las Vegas, I don't even care who's playing there. just go. It doesn't matter. Just go. That's how good it is. Can they actually leverage that technology to make people, A, forget about some of the parts of this card not being super awesome, but B, can they actually leverage it in a way that the folks at home can enjoy it as well in this sort of very distant relationship? These are enormous tasks. My biggest question is can they actually pull that off? because if you've seen it, the amount of technology that they have to absolutely take you to another dimension is real. I just don't know if they can make it happen.

Jed, are your question similar or do you have a different question when it comes to that part of it? My question is mostly, and I think this does align a lot with where Luke was going, but how are they going to make this happen for the people who weren't there? Because, yes, the people in attendance, I am actually pretty confident are going to have a great time. Based on everyone I've ever spoken to who has seen something at that sphere has been like, it was mind blowing. And Luke says it was this unbelievable thing. And so I trust that that experience is going to go really well.

Also, like, you know, I should on the UFC a lot. I think it's deserved every time I do it. I'm not backing down in any of those prior takes. But they've brought in, like the reporting on this is that they're working with a bunch of external collaborators for this specific event and they hired, I forget the dude's name, who produced the Emmys for like 20 years or some shit. They've got a lot of the team that did Taylor Swift's Ares tour production has been brought on to do work here. When you're bringing in this many people who are very good at their jobs, I am extremely confident the live experience

will be unbelievable for everyone in attendance. The major problem with that is that there is a disconnect between the live experience and the bulk of consumption here, which will be the pay-per-view. Because when Dana says, you know, the promotion says, I am going to produce the greatest live sporting event of all time, if he does, like it won't be a lie if the sphere show is the greatest thing ever. But if you are just a schmuck who was at home and got, you know, you got the promo and you said, oh, shit, this looks awesome.

And you spend 80 bucks. And then it's just a paper. view and there's not that much different from your viewing experience, you'll feel kind of hoodwinked. Because, Mike, we talk about it all the time. This show has passed the mom test. I have gotten texts about this from people outside of the MMA bubble being like, hey, are you going to the sphere thing? It's, it seems pretty cool. And so if any of those people then turn around and buy this, you know, buy this pay per view for 80 bucks and it, that doesn't translate to the at home experience, are like I feel like they are going to feel as if they were slighted and so I have no idea

if and how they are going to pull that off and I am hopeful that it will be good but I can't I would not bet money that the viewing experience at home will be substantively different than anything else I'm glad you guys both kind of what the directions you went so I want to follow because obviously look this is the UFC and this is MMA so yes we'll discuss or we'll put over or we'll critique this card for a week week and a half And then it's just going to be on to Paris and the next cards and all the big fights. And we'll certainly look back on this and remember at the year end what this was and kind of compare it to other events. But I want to go back to you, Jed, because, you know, this is a 10-fight card, which is awesome in my eyes.

Some good fights. We got a couple of squash matches, which all these cards need. Top of the lineup is great. O'Malley Marab, huge fight for the Bannonweight title. And we'll get there shortly. But as you and Luke both mentioned, the intrigues surrounding the spectacle that is UFC 306 from a viewer perspective, what Dana White is putting out there, this $25,000 Easter egg challenge and whatnot. In your opinion, will this intrigue surrounding the look, feel, other attributes, the mystery

of it all? Will this drive a whole bunch of extra pay-per-view buys from people who just say, look, the fights are cool, but I want to see what this some bitch is going to look like. You know what I mean? I think it's going to get a kick. I don't think it's going to be a massive difference, and frankly, we'll never know. but like I said, like I don't get texts from my family members about fights ever, like almost ever. When it is, it is something major.

It is, hey, here's an old friend from law school who I haven't heard from in two years reaching out because Conner's returning and he wants to talk about it. The fact that I got those texts for this one makes me think that this does have a broader appeal. People are more interested in this. And again, like I'm not shitting on this because I just genuinely don't know what's going to happen. Like there's, I cannot guess what will happen because historically the UFC has never lived up to expectations I have put upon it, but they're working with a whole lot of damn people who are really good at their jobs. And so maybe this one is different. I genuinely can't even conceive of how different it can be, though. And that's not my job.

Thank God. I couldn't do it. But like, I am truly fascinated with this event outside of the fights. the fights are secondary this weekend. I am far more interested in what this is going to look like and kind of how they manifest what they have been talking about and if they do so. Luke, I don't know what the live chat viewers are telling you

or what you're hearing on MK, the DMs from donks or whatnot. Do you feel like the spectacle of this is more the ice cream or the cherry on top of what this event ultimately is? It's a good question. I would say that it has overshadowed the card to a pretty noticeable degree, whether or not it should have is a separate conversation, but it kind of has. And also some of the negativity as well, right? The outrageous ticket prices, though confused branding, some of the complaints about card quality overall. The star of the show, I mean, even Sean O'Malley was like, yo, they're just talking about this goddamn sphere.

They're not even talking about this fight with me and Marab. And one of the things that's actually really annoyed me about that is like I really have a lot of respect for Canello if he retired today. He would be a Hall of Famer automatically. He is an absolutely all-time great, no question about it. But that fight with Berlanga is a fucking joke. It's a joke, right? I mean, that's a James Kirkland level fight. And people are like, oh, well, that one, you know,

that seemed like, you know, Canelo is actually the kind of attraction that night. I'm like, dude, if you're a real combat sports fan, obviously if you're just boxing or MMA, this doesn't really apply to you. But if you're an actual combat sports fan, the champion of MMA's premier division taking on the top, the consensus, number one contender, is orders of magnitude more legitimate. and Canello. Canello is basically doing like the Harlem Globetrotters versus the, you know, the Washington generals where like, you know what I mean? Where he's just there so that he can do, like he can spin the basketball on his finger and all kinds of stuff while they dunk and they go

up 98 to 42 at the half. Like that's that's what that fight is. It's not a real fight. And so I feel like some of that legitimacy has been lost because what they are pushing is sphere, sphere, sphere, sphere, sphere, sphere, all the time. And we have no way of knowing how they're going to maximize those resources. And so I think people who haven't gone to the sphere, understandably, like, what is the big deal? I do think I agree with Jed. I think it's going to increase the buys a little bit because Dana has been out there doing

a full court press about this in the media as well. He's talking to New York media. He did the car wash at ESPN. He's on a bunch of stuff. So on just that level alone, just pushing the sphere thing, I think it'll help increase buys, but it also has kind of overshadowed some of the broader quality. of the event. Last thing on this, and you sort of touched on this, Luke, and Dana says, this is it, right?

And there was a lot of talk about ticket prices and, you know, looking at the map a little while ago, it's mostly resale tickets on Ticketmaster right now. There's some unsold tickets, but there's not a lot of them, maybe like five to 700 total. So this will likely end up being a sellout or at least very, very close, but the gate's going to be absolutely gigantic because of how much tickets initially sold for. and Luke, you touched on this, and I know you've tweeted about this, the boxing enthusiasts because the Canelo fight is down the road,

they are claiming essentially the death of this UFC 306 card. I've seen the word failure because it's not a full sellout at the moment, which, by the way, the Canelo fight isn't either. There's not a lot of tickets left, but there are still tickets left for the Canelo fight. But what do you make of this, hey, the UFC card hasn't happened yet, but it's an absolute failure compared to Canello? This drives to be fucking up the wall. I mean, first of all, the Canelo ticket prices are like 4,000 to 400.

It's not much of a discount. It's not much of a discount at all. And you got what? I mean, Roli Romero is on that card. Okay, he's weird. That might be a fun fight for as long as it lasts. Erislondi Lara and Danny Garcia. Okay, I don't hate that fight, but it's not exactly like the most important attraction.

And as I mentioned, you got the Harlem Globetrotters versus the Washington generals. Like, this is your, this is like your calling card competition? Listen, the UFC has any number of problems. And one of the big ones is people want more card quality. They didn't get it with this one. They want cheaper ticket prices. They didn't get it with this one. In fact, the UFC went the other way.

But at least the UFC is trying something different here. Like they're actually trying to raise the level of the game here. They're trying to raise the level of what they're doing. And they may fail spectacularly understand that. I'm not declaring victory. But holy crap, guys, they are trying to do something. thing, and again, trying being the operative word, in a place that this has never been done before. And again, it's really hard for people who haven't been to the sphere.

I would be dismissive, too, if I hadn't been there. How good could it be? It is like nothing I've ever seen before. Let me just tell you one thing that happened while I was in there. I saw this Dead & Company show, which, by the way, shouts to O'Tiel Burbridge, the bassist player, he's really nice guy. He took really good care of us. But I don't like that music.

It's not for me. It's like not for me at all, okay? I'm only there literally because I lost a bet to Brian Campbell. And they start on a street in San Francisco. And then it zooms out in the sort of a very important spatial way. And then you're in the neighborhood. And then you're in the city. And then you're on the west coast of California.

And then you're outside of earth. And the grandeur of it pulls you in. Like I literally was losing my balance, seated because of how immersive it is. And then out of nowhere, a satellite comes racing behind you. and it shook up everyone all at once. I'm telling you, there is nothing like this place. So when people declare this is a promoter trick to get you to watch a bad card,

whether they will be successful in pulling it off, again, I have no idea. But holy shit, this is not like things they've done before. A little restraint until they figure it out, or at least to show it to us, I think is in order here. Yeah, what do you think about this? The boxing victory lap, so to speak, heading into this card.

And then on top of that, UFC, like Luke said, they're trying. Like, we talk about them not coming, getting outside of their,

their box, right? Like, the unfun championship. We say that all the time. But they're, they're trying here, but the boxing enthusiasts

are taking a victory lap that Canello is just going to bury Dana White in the UFC this weekend. Yeah, I don't get it at all. In part, because it's just like, it's just ugly.

You, like, what do you need? If you're going to be victory lapping, you could victory laping, you could victory lap, about like the last two years where boxing has had wonderful incredible events. It's this is not the weekend to victory lap.

Not because you're right or wrong, but just like, why? This isn't that the UFC sphere show is, you know, is also a big thing. And if Canello went, you know, if Canello draws more interest, whatever, I just seems very petty and stupid. Um, in the same way that it's always very petty and stupid when Dana says boxing is dying or boxing is so broken, it can't be like, all of that is very dumb and I don't understand the rivalry there. It has never made sense for these things to be at odds when they are so interconnected and intertwined. As for like, you know, the UFC trying, that's what is exciting

about this weekend. That's why I am more interested in the show than the fights. Not because the fights are bad. I think that many of the, that this is on paper. Like if you remove everything else, probably a weaker pay-per-view experience. But you often get that with kind of a top end in the way that this has with this car.

Sean O'Malley, Rod Vellishfili, undeniable fight, a brilliant fight. And with a second championship, you can fill the rest of the stuff with filler and it's fine. So yeah, there's like a little bit of that. But the reason I am focused on the event is because they are doing something.

And I do think Dana White has maybe shot himself a little bit in the foot, at least for my enjoyment of this. Maybe this works different for other people, but he's been so focused on how this is a once in a lifetime, we're never doing this again thing, that it is, that is central to the story of you got to come see this one, because it's the only one we're ever doing. And maybe that's smart or whatever, maybe more people are interested. But for me, this would be a little more interesting if it was, this is the first of many, you know, We see Sphere as a new way to approach this, a new experience to offer. We're not going to do it all the time.

We can't. You can't afford to do it all the time. But you can expect us once a year, maybe once every other year, to be doing something grand and exciting in this fashion because that's, I mean, that would be awesome. And maybe ultimately we'll get there. But for now, we're just left with, hey, they're doing something. And they never do anything. They never put in, they never hire a bunch of external people to do something.

massive and mega like this. And so like I said, I hope that it is good. I want it to deliver on the deliverables it has promised. I am cautious about believing that until I see it because I remember Fight Island. I lived through Fight Island when we were promised an island that fighting would happen in. And what we got was Apex Abu Dhabi, like at a venue they'd already been to. So until I see it, I can't be whole hog into it. But I do commend them for saying, hey, this is an opportunity to let's do it.

And I hope that this lands well. And mostly what I hope, I hope that it lands so well that they say, we got to keep doing this. This needs to not just be a once in a blue moon thing. This needs to be part and parcel of the UFC product moving forward. And maybe it's maybe the International Fight Week show every year just becomes the sphere show, because that's already their biggest weekend of the year. And so they go all in on a sphere show as well. And then we can once a year have something awesome and incredible to look forward to.

Well, the aesthetics are great. I'm looking forward to seeing what this looks like. But there's also going to be fights, including an incredible main event for the Bannamway title. And that's where we're going next. The point for round one goes to, I mean, no one paints a word picture like Luke Thomas, one to nothing.

Beautiful. I felt like he, I felt like I was in the sphere for a minute as the confetti falls on him. He's all hopped up on Mountain Dew. Yes. Mountain Dew zero sugar. There it is. There is the label. All right.

Let's get to the fights. First, let's talk about this main event. Sean O'Malley defends the Bannamoy title against Marabalbaud Wichbili. I mean, on paper, this fight is pretty wild, Jed Michoud. But the build to this one has been pretty. interesting with Marab doing, I guess, marabish things and Sean O'Malley just being the most confident dude you'll ever see. Jed, what are your excitement levels for this fight a little more than 48 hours away from it? I'm pretty pumped about it. Like, right? I think, you know,

I think this is a good event just as a result of the top two fights of the evening. And there are some other good fights as well. But really, this is the centerpiece, the showpiece is the main event and justifiably so, right? Like, it is a bit weird because even in the buildup to this, Sean O'Malley has kind of said, they're not promoting me. They're promoting sphere. And he is ostensibly the next big star for them. But you kind of need a guy of his gravitas to get this event over the top,

despite the fact that it's a love letter to the Mexican people. And the whole, this whole fight week of everyone asking who's more Mexican between you and Marab, Sean is real, real weird to me. But strip all that shit aside, this fight bangs. Like, this is many, many people believe Marab DeVal is really to be the best band of weight in the world. And Sean O'Malley has the title of that at this moment in time. Stylistically, it is a wonderful matchup.

I've seen a lot on the internet and stuff this week that this is Habib Conner 2.0. And I think that there's like some truth to that, but I also think that that widely misses the mark of how these two guys fight specific as opposed to kind of the broader generalizations that are at work there. And so this fight is awesome. Like the outcome is either Marab Balich really fulfills all the promise that he's had and that people have been rooting for him to get a title shot for years now or Sean O'Malley has died in the wool, tried and true like battle tested champion because that was the knock against

him for his entire career functionally. was he's being handled with kid gloves. He's not really having to fight real opponents. The one time he fought a real dude, Cito knocked him out, and then he complained about it, blah, blah, blah. And then the other weird thing in the Pedro Muno's fight, and he just gets rocket-chipped into the Peyoteur Yan fight, and he doesn't even win the fight, but he wins the fight officially.

And so fast-track to a title shot. He didn't earn or deserve any of this. I don't agree with that. I'm just saying that is a narrative out there. And if he comes in here, knocks out Al Jermaine Sterling, beats Cheeto. Granted, that win means less,

but it is significant for him, avenging loss, and then comes and beats undeniably the number one contender in mobbed off the other chili. You can't talk shit about this dude anymore. You might not like him. You might love him, whichever it is. He is proven himself, battle tested.

And so the stakes here are unbelievable. The fight could be a dud, just depending on how it goes. But I genuinely have no idea. idea how it will go. It's one or two outcomes, and I'm fascinated to watch and see which of those outcomes it is. Luke, where your excitement levels for this Banimoy title fight? You said it's your premier division. You got the top two dudes. Got to be pumped for this one. Yeah, I'm actually very high on this. Now, of course, there is a world where it doesn't deliver as a entertainment experience.

That is actually quite possible. So, for example, if Marab just does Marab things, I mean, if you look at Marab's run to the title, it's like, it's amazing. that the fans have rallied around a guy who functionally only has one finish and is like this big long run he's been on. The rest have just all been decisions. Now they've been extremely impressive ones. I mean, if you're just going to chuck offense at your opponent, you got to do it the Marabwe where they just can't, you know, it's just a title wave that you're just drowning in for as long as the fight lasts. But I love this fight. I love this fight a lot.

I think, you know, to me, I'd take a personal satisfaction when people that the MMA fan base have decided they don't like do well. It's a perversal little enjoyment I have. like I actually think Alex Volcanowski is a hero in the fight game and I have nothing against him. But when people were just shitting on Ilya, I'm like, you all know how good this motherfucker is, right? Oh, you don't. Well, you're about to find out the hard way. Sure enough, that's exactly what we got. I relish that, to be quite honest.

That is something I enjoy. And in this particular case, I don't have any personal affinity or hatred towards Sean O'Malley. And if he ends up being the lesser guy, then that's just the way that this all goes. But he's up against something kind of interesting here. Now, a win here doesn't in any way put him in the conversation for all-time best Bantamway. That's not what I mean. But it puts him maybe a step or two away, right? He would have two title defenses.

And you can say, well, for example, Sterling had three, but one of those was the T.J. fight, which was not even a, I mean, it's not Sterling's fault, but that's not really a real fight. What I'm trying to point out to is it gets him outside of the club, but like the front of the line to some of these bigger conversations that are out there. I don't know what it does for his star power because that remains to be seen how big the show is going to be. but on fight terms alone, here's what I love about it. It's not exactly mysterious, right? You kind of know what the story is here. Either Marab is going to get the single leg takedown.

You could have a couple of doubles along the way, and he's going to be able to use that and leverage it for 25 minutes. Or he's probably going to get iced. I mean, it's just not a whole lot complicated beyond that. You don't really have to think about, you know, somebody getting submitted here. It could happen, but it seems unlikely. You don't have to think about Sean O'Malley,

potentially outrestling him. That doesn't seem like a very likely possibility. There's just a couple of key fault lines. But if you look at the odds, no one is quite sure exactly how it's going to play out. And for that reason, yes, there is a world where it could be boring, but there's also a world where it could be super intriguing and the kind of validation where is all of the MMA fan base who seems disgruntled with Sean all of a sudden going to turn over. No, but a funny thing happens along the way in MMA.

If you start beating everyone's favorite fighters or you start beating people that the fans have rallied around, they have no choice but to eventually rally around you. They get pulled in in this black hole that they don't want to go into, but the gravitational pull is simply too much for them. Sean O'Malley has an opportunity to do something a little bit along those lines. For those reasons, the fight itself, the potential play it puts Sean O'Malley in and the Bantzawait conversation and just what it might do with his relationship to the fan base,

I love this fight. I can't wait for it. Jed, Luke laid out sort of how a lot of the fan base is viewing this. This is classic striker versus grappler that if Sean can use his distance management, mixing it up, his fight IQ on the feet. He's obviously the better striker here. But Marab is an absolute demon with his pace and his weird yet somehow, a somewhat effective stand-up that he has. It just blitzes in and just does things that most fighters shouldn't do,

but he finds success doing it, especially later in the fights. but it is the grappling and his willingness to shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot and just keep shooting until he sucks the soul out of anybody that he fights in that octagon. So what is your biggest question about this fight? Is it as simple as can Marab get takedowns early and keep getting him down? Or, and Sean just needs to keep it on the feet? Or is there something a little more, a little deeper than that for you? I mean, so that is the fundamental question of it.

It's just can Marab do this? But kind of the smaller questions surrounding how we would go about it and how Sean O'Malley is going to approach this fight. Those are the ones that are really fascinating me into it. Because this is like a fairly textbook fight in that, you know, Striker versus Grappler. It's a coin flip fight not because if they fought a hundred times, each of them would win 50. It's a coin flip because we don't know which way, but the coin will land that way 90% of the time. And so like the first round to me will be an enormous bellwether of the whole matchup. Because ostensibly, Marab can lose the first round and then be fine, right?

Like, because his whole, he's all about cardio and pace. He gets stronger, the longer the fight goes on. As O'Malley goes into those later rounds, he'll be less dangerous. Mara will have more opportunity. But if O'Malley can come out and in the first round just circle around the cage, like in the first fight with Cheeto, Cheeto, they're in the small cage. And Cheeto just walked at his ass and O'Malley was suddenly backed against the fence and that's how that fight went. They rematch in the big cage and O'Malley is never even to the black line.

Like he is always in motion. He is always keeping a long distance operating from where he wants to. Marab like has the same issue. He is going to have to get into him because in the Aljo fight, Aljo never got there. Aljo was stuck with behind the footwork of Amali for most of that fight. And so how does Marab navigate that? Because also Maraub does have the tool in his belt that Aljo didn't have just been like, Yolo, dude, I will get clipped.

I don't give a shit. I got a good enough chin. I'll just charge at you and see what happens. That being said, he's also gotten tagged a couple of times. And so how that dynamic is going to go of how Marab closes distance, if I'm boiling down to one single thing, that's the thing to me. Because if he can't do it, then this fight is over.

And we'll know that immediately. If he can't have good quality pressuring footwork, as opposed to just running in and letting O'Malley angle out and tag him. And I guess on the other side of that, can O'Malley just get up? Because Marab's going to get takedowns. O'Malley's, I think, a lot better at getting up from takedowns than people give him credit for.

Certainly I think he's a better grappler than that. And it's not like Marob is an unbelievable. believable top position grappler, he is just relentless with it. So every aspect of how this fight is going to play out is fascinated to me because I just truly don't know. I know how it will play out if you tell me one guy wins or the other, but I don't know how that will effectuate in the cage. Can I add one final point, if I may, I didn't get to at the beginning, which was, I think another key fault line that's kind of interesting here is if you go back to the Yon fight where Jed rightly points out, There were the big controversy at the time when O'Malley got it was. He was ranked like 12.

And I think Jan was ranked like in a one or two or three or something like that. And they were like, how is this guy at 12 getting this? And then he wins the fight controversially, but he certainly wins the fight. And I went back and I watched that fight. And I did a little bit of a detail on it. You know, it's kind of interesting to me is like the pace at which O'Malley gets to the feet is not necessarily all that quick. But the way he does it is actually pretty technical.

He builds height off of fighting grips. He uses arm drags to create scrambles. It's very effective. Like he actually does a pretty good job of it, which is why he's able to get back. And I think Yon actually tries a little bit harder to keep people down than Marab. And it's like, dude, again, I'm going to point this out. Like Marab has almost all decisions all the way through.

You're going to give O'Malley 25 minutes. We'll see. But of course, what's the other wrinkle? O'Malley was sucking wind in that fight against Yon. I mean, if you're already breathing hard in a three-rounder versus Yon, what's it going to be like a 25 minutes when a guy like Marab is putting a base on you. This is what I mean. The questions are actually pretty big and pretty interesting here. And if Marab can't get the job done, it's like, well, can Umar get the job done? He's a little bit

different. It doesn't have the same relentlessness, but has more polish on the feet. This is, this is a highly intriguing contest in any number of different ways. Luke, if Sean wins, and we don't know like what this will all mean for his star power, because we could view him in a certain way, but the numbers may tell us differently. But the UFC is going to strap the rockets to the span. They will, consider him an official official made man if he goes in there and just ice his barab demolish ability. The options

will be a plenty and the UFC will take all of them seriously. Whether he wants to stay at 35, go fight to Poria, Holloway winner. All things are probably in play if he goes out and has a moment. It just feels that way at this point. What if Marab wins? What does his future look like? Does he become

a company face? Is he on that road? Does he have any negotiating power? How different does this division look? Marab de Vallechevili is the Bannamway champion. So that's a, that's a weird one too, because you don't want to diminish a guy who would have run through, not run through, but gotten past at a bare minimum, Piotr, Yon, Jose Aldo, you know, Henry Sohudo, you name it, right?

Like tough guys to get through in any, no matter how old or whatever the case may be. But at the same time, and also I would say, remember, if he wins, that means you'd have two champions from Georgia at the exact same time in the UFC for a little country. Boy, they produce a lot of might in combat sports. Don't lose side of that. That's pretty impressive as well. But what I would say is it's hard for me to see him as anything more than a transition kind of champion if it ends up being that way.

In part because, you know, Nurigar Medov is probably a tough matchup for anyone. I think he's a uniquely tough matchup for Marab. Maraub is not good. Maraub's got a little bit of Yuel Romero in him. He's like Yuel with like great cardio in terms of his wrestling. Because Yuel would have takedowns, but then he have no control afterwards, guys will be able to break and stand up relatively easily. he's got a little bit more than that and he's obviously got outrageously good cardio

but the kind of wrestling that Umar can do where he can not just stop it but then reverse position and then put the kind of the screws to a guy like Marab plus on the feet he's already going to be a problem for him that's a tough matchup for him I mean again he could beat that guy too I could be underselling him

but my personal opinion is that I think Nirmugamadov versus O'Malley is a little bit more intriguing than Nirmagamato versus Marab. styles make fights even if one guy was better than the other in marab versus omali and so i think there would be something of a d'agistani ascendancy kind of taking over in that particular case anyway however it should be noted again a guy who has decisioned his way through the premier of the division in the premier division itself becoming champion is and then

becoming a fan favorite as a process is exceedingly rare in combat sports and he would have done something highly unusual by virtue of this style of title wave takedowns, title wave offense, that when we talk about who's got the best motor in combat sports, I mean, I don't know if it's Marab, but certainly in MMA, he's got to be top three at worst. I mean, he's the guy, right? Like that is so unique, that is so special. He's able to take kind of like a workman-like approach to fighting and succeed at the very highest level of it. That's a, that's a, that's a, special guy. It's a special guy. Jed, what if Marab wins? And as I was asking

Luke, those questions, you were making faces. So tell us why. I was mad because he was taking some of my thoughts, and I was very frustrated by that. I will also note that for, well, I agree with Luke and principle on the like, it's pretty tough for you to run through weight class with all decisions and become champion. Belah Muhammad sitting right here right now. Maybe this is. the new meta is just being unable to finish people, but being a hard nose grinder. I don't think so.

And like ultimately, you haven't asked this question, Mike, but I'll give my pick. I am picking Sean O'Malley. I've got, may have come out already. I have a breakdown of this fight for the site. It's either up now or it's coming this afternoon. And I ultimately pick Sean O'Malley because, to Luke's point, if you're in there for 25 minutes, that's a long time to give a guy like Sean O'Malley. and if you basically do not have the ability to finish, that is a huge liability in my mind. And so, like, I think O'Malley's going to win. But to your point, Mike, when you were saying, you know,

if O'Malley wins, they're going to strap the rockets to him, I'm not sure. I think they will want to, but I don't think they can yet because Umar's coming. Like, this is the wire, get the, uh, the cheese stands alone whistle going because Umar is coming. and I have firmly agree with Luke. I said this after Umar's win over Corey Sandhagan on our post show.

I was like, yeah, nobody's beating that dude, but if Marab wins, he's super not beating that dude. O'Malley at least has a chance to do something, particularly if O'Malley comes out here and dusts up Marab, then I'm very, very interested in how the Umar fight goes. I'd still favor him more. I think Maraub has just an extremely low possibility of success based on the style there. So if Marab wins, yeah, he's a transition champion. Good for him.

He gets to forever be called champion. Terrific. Umar's going to win it the next time up. If O'Malley wins, they're not going to run the Ilya fight now because there's other stuff to do. And credit to O'Malley, he is even saying like, hey, there's stuff I still need to handle at Bantamweight before we can start doing that. He's kind of walked back his previous position of trying to just fast forward into champ champ

fights because I think he knows that the Umar fight is a very, very big fight for him, as would be a Davidson Figurato fight. If O'Malley wins, I really need to see the Umar fight. And if he beats Umar, then they put the rockets to him. Because at that point, it's all gas, no breaks, baby, let's go on this dude. I think that there will be a little bit of hesitancy to just immediately anoint him as the biggest thing, even if he gets an impressive win this weekend, though. Well, we'll find out what happens on Saturday night at the conclusion of this event and of this fight. Let's move on to other big things happening on Saturday at UFC 306. Point for round two goes to Jedmishu.

One to one. Very nice. Good job. Well played. Confetti. Let's go. There's the confetti. I mean, the budget just expanding here on BTL and I love it.

I love it so much. Co-main event, Alexa Grasso versus Valentina Shep. Chonko 3. What a series. These two women have had. Jed will always remember the night. Alexa Grasso got her first championship opportunity, lost his whole bankroll, along with his mind. She submits Valentina Shepchenko in a huge upset to win the belt at UFC 285.

Six months later, they run it again. Great fight. A classic score to split draw could have gone either way. And now a year later, we get it again, Luke Thomas. We asked excitement levels for the main event in the previous question. Where are they at with this trilogy fight? Hi, again, not quite as high as they are for the Bansomweight fight, but this fight is kind of crazy, right? So in MMA Trilogies, this is not always the case, but it typically ends up being the case that the person who wins the second fight wins the third fight.

But here we have the case of a draw. However, we only have the case of a draw because one judge was, you know, smoking meth out of a light bulb, apparently, instead of actually watching what was happening and scored the last fight, or last round, excuse me, a 10-8, even though it should have only. been a 10-9, in which case, Shevchenko should have won it and had her title back, but that's not what happened. However, we now have another wrinkle to add to it, which is that a lot of time has elapsed since the second fight. Now Shevchenko is 36, not too far from 37. There's just been a lot of time in general for both of them to potentially work on their

games, but you would think that would favor the younger champion at this point. And here they meet for a third time. So you might want to follow conventional wisdom about what these kinds of moments tell you it's going to happen, but none of those other factors are really in play. And so that makes it to me highly intriguing. Also, we did get a pretty clear sense of what some of the underlying themes were between their first and second fights, right? So one of the things that Valentina cleaned up was she cut out a lot of the spinning attacks.

That limited some of her offense on the feet. And I think that made the fight a little bit closer. However, very wisely, she leaned into her wrestling. And I think one thing we could all probably agree on is, Shevchenko through two fights is clearly the more physical, stronger athlete of the two, and probably a better wrestler as well, right? But it wasn't really enough to put Grasso away. Grasso was a little bit clever underneath.

She's certainly busy with her guard to the extent possible. And so you have to ask yourself, okay, you definitely can't go back to the spinning stuff of your Shevchenko. You've got to kind of lean into your strengths, the physicality, the wrestling. That's going to be there for you in all likelihood, unless this is something Grasso has really worked on. and I suspect obviously she has, to what extent that will be effective, we shall see. But can someone like Shevchenko in a third fight this late in her run

with this much time elapsed at a substantial amount of ground and pound, become a better backtaker submission threat herself? I have my doubts, but I didn't think she was going to perform as ably as she did in the second fight. Also, if you're Shevchenko and you actually do get the title back, after kind of being screwed in the second one, I mean, she's already the best 125 women's, champion of all time, but to get a title back with that much time elapsed in any UFC weight class is absurdly difficult to do. It's the kind of thing that I think would really already boost

an incredible Hall of Fame stock to a kind of next level status in my personal judgment. On the other hand, if Grasso can finally round the corner, and, you know, I'm not going to say she got lucky the first time she had targeted that. They knew it was coming and she acted on it, but it wasn't available to her in the second. I think she struggled a little bit with finding offensive identity. If she can now do that in the third fight and show the kind of maturation and fight IQ about both decision-making infight and pre-fight that we're looking for, dude, I mean, this is awesome either way. Either way, unless the judges fuck it up or something or the referee, you should get something highly illuminating, a really interesting question to answers for both

of their careers, and probably in all likelihood, a very good and competitive fight. I struggle to understand what could be bad about this. Jed, what say you? How excited are you for this fight? I mean, I can never be excited for this fight just because of my personal history with this rivalry. But like on the merits, they've been into really fun fights. Like, there are, don't get me wrong, there are big stretches of both fights that aren't

compelling, right? Like, that's just sort of the nature of, frankly, how Alexegraso fights. And to some extent, how Valentina Shivchenko fights. But each of the fights have such big moment moments in them or big momentum swings. And so like I just, I looked at it this week. I had the rematch 47, 46 gross. I gave dueling 108 rounds. None of them were the fifth round, which is categorically insane that that ever happened.

And so all the narrative here is weird too because genuinely, I think both women for the first time in MMA history, two fighters are, can justifiably feel like they got robbed with a draw scorecard because Grasso won the fight. Like I watched, I've rewatched the fight. Grasso should have won the fight. But then the only reason Chivchenko didn't win the fight, and I said this in our post show at the time, and I still believe now, is because when the, whatever judge it was that was scoring it, that ultimately gave her 10-8, gave the 10-8 in the final round, did it because he was like, oh, if I submit the true scorecard, Shepchenko will win, and I do. not agree with that. And so he just pride rules the shit out of it to get a result he could live

with. And so both women can feel justified or can feel like they, they, you know, got screwed over. And now we're getting this trilogy fight a really long time coming. The way they match up, there have always been big interesting moments. I suspect the same thing will happen again. So all that makes me really interested in the fight. What I really am most interested in this fight to know, though, is two things, Mike. I need to know one, how diminish the Shibchenko? Because she's about to be 37. She's been fighting for literally two decades.

Like, that's just a hard thing to do. You know, your body is just not built for this. And Shivchenko, on No Bet's Bar this week, I put it this way. Shevchenko is not getting better. We have already seen the best Valentina Shivchenko. It is just a question of how much worse is she every time out. Grasso still can be improving. Like she is still adding tools to the game.

And so if Shevchenko couldn't get it done in two previous iterations, can she do it this time around? And to that point, my biggest question for the whole goddamn fight is will Valentina Schochenko figure out to stop trying a fucking head and arm throw? Because she's done it twice and it's costing a fight both fucking times. First time I got her choked the hell out. Then the second time, she did it in the final round of a fight. She was in cruise control on and just punted the title away.

Can she physically stop herself from saying, I'm going to do this thing that Grasso is very clearly ready for? I don't know, but I guess we're going to find out Saturday. I'm with both of you. I think this fight's going to be great. I don't know what's going to happen. I think it's perfect for one another as opponents. The biggest drawback to this fight and this robbery as a whole is the distance between two and three.

It has held up this entire division, which is a really good division. 125, there are so many up-and-comers right now. Manon Fioro is patiently waiting for her chance to fight for the belt. She's going to weigh in his backup. There's others coming up. There's obviously the Rosemianniz's who's a big name, the Blanchfields, the Natty Isses, the Macy Barbers, and others. So I want to go back to you, Jed. Does this division, if you're Natalia Silva, if you're Rosemian, if you're Aaron Blanchfield,

do they need to root for Grasso here? Is that the best result? Or do you think the UFC says, look, even if Shufchenko wins, we've seen this fight three straight times. There's a good amount of people who thought you won the second fight. We're good here. I don't think it matters who wins for the rest of the division. I think we are done with this for now.

As long as there is an outcome, as long as there's not a draw or a no contest of something, I think we are done here. Because if Grasso wins, she's won two or three. It's obviously over if Shuchchenko wins. It's, hey, she was screwed. by that one insane judge. And so she's won two.

And, you know, if there was nothing else going on, they could run a fourth. They won't. Like this, it'll move on and thank Christ, because this is the best weight class in women's MMA. And for the last two years, it has been focused on one fight. And like, every time we have trilogies like this, it sort of stagnates the rest of the division and leads to these downstream effects of weirdness, like of just how shit gets off-kilter. and insane. And so we've got Menonfior, who's obviously waiting right there. Rosemey,

Unisner, Aaron Blanchfield, the winner of that is very likely to also, I mean, certainly at least deserves a title shot. And so, you know, we still have Macy Barber and not the Tali Silva. Like, there's a whole bunch of people who deserve their day in court. And so I think come hell or high water, as long as there is a finish, that there is a conclusion to this fight. That's it. We're moving on to new business. Do you agree with that, Luke? Or do you feel like, do you feel like these women are saying, come on, Alexa, like just put this woman behind you for good so we can move this thing along?

Or are they just like, come on, judges, just give the fight to somebody so we can move on. Does it matter who wins? I don't think it matters too much. As long as it's not controversial, right? I mean, as long as somebody does the job of winning and everyone can agree that either the judges get it right or the stoppage was fine or whatever the case. like the rightful winner was raised because I mean think about the logic here right so again if it's Shevchenko if she wrestles it back and like let's say stops I'm going to you know this probably seems unlikely But let's just say she stops Grasso with strikes right she would be the rightful champion you would want to then be the next person to take that belt from her right? That would be such a prize to do that

But it doesn't have to be her because of the of the inverse happens right where Shevchenko loses because she gets choked out from the back again and again it's a totally legitimate win on the part of Grasso, you're like, right, okay, now I've got the target of opportunity here. It doesn't have to be the person who was this big figure in the division. Grasso would have now had three fights with her and that rivalry would be put to bed. And so I think Jed is right, where you're now turning the page to something new. In either case, it does feel like this probably is the end. And so whoever gets next gets next either the legend of the division or the legend killer. And in either case, the win of even the belts,

obviously the most valuable part of it. But in either case, you're getting something of substantial value. You're getting someone who turned the division to its next stage, or you're getting the person who has been holding it there, and then you feel like you can be the one to take it over. I don't think that it's so important that it has to be one or the other. It's not like Anderson Silva's long streak. It's not John Jones's long streak.

It's not GSP. By the way, all three of those were like major attractions in the sport. You don't really have those dynamics in play here. Shevchenko's loss. She's not a huge pay-per-view star. She's super important, and you can make similar claims about Grasso being the champion,

blah, blah, blah, but it doesn't hinge on one of them. It just hinges on who's next. That's fair. It'd be one-one. If Schenko wins like a split decision or something, like it's a, and most of us feel like Schenko won.

If I'm Alexa Grasso, I'm throwing a freaking fit if they move on to somebody else. Like, I gave her two fights in a row after I beat her. But she might not have to, might. Because I am of the opinion that win or lose, this is Shevchenko's final fight at flyweight.

It was like she's about to be 37. Like what the shit? Getting the belt back is the accomplishment. What the shit else does she have to do? Like, is it important for her? Because it's no longer I can chase the longest title reign. Like now it's just a second one. And that is different.

It's not, that's not all contiguous. And so instead of me like, hey, I'm going to fight Minotaur. And like maybe if Rose was the next up, But, like, does she really want to fight Menon? Like, does that do anything for her as opposed to looking at the current women's band-in-weight lineup and being like, I got to tell you, I like my chances against the winner of Pena Pinnington. I think I'll just try and go get that belt now.

Peace, 125. Alexa, you fight Minol for the vacant belt. Like, I think there's a very real chance. This is just the last time Chichenko fights at 125. Even with Kayla up there, huh? she's just like, all right, let's go. Yeah, but dude, he's right. Like, okay, Kayla's obviously like a monster, right?

I mean, that's a little tough. But if you're Shevchenko, you feel like you're guaranteed to get a big fight very quickly at 135. 135, honestly, since they brought it to the UFC, has never been more wide open. The Kayla thing is slightly different. She is obviously going to be a tough challenge for anybody. But holy shit, the rest of that division, are you fucking kidding me? Like, they're getting like, oh my God. Like this is, this is like, this is the window.

This is the window right here. And even if you get the belt and then lose it immediately to Kayla or you get like your first fight is a title shot against Kayla, at least you're like you're right in the mix already. You're already there. You know what I mean? Like whereas if you hold onto it at 125, to your point, the Fioro's behind, Blanchfield's not going to be far behind. Natalia Silva's not going to be far behind. Like there's just murderer after murderer ready to come after you as you're beating down the door at 37.

Dude, go to 35 and roll the dice a little bit. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But you don't have to do it. It's not a lot of friction to get to a title fight. Of that, I am quite sure. There is such an extreme possibility. And Damon Martin, shout out to you because I know you're going to love this in your chest. If Julianna Pena wins, you can't tell me that Julianna Pena won't get on that mic if Valentina has the belt and be like,

I got business with Valentina Shibchenko. Screw Kayla Harrison. she needs to beat more people. Let me fight Valentina Shibchenko to avenge loss. Like that is entirely possible because Julian Pena is not dumb and should not ever try to fight Kayla Harrison. It won't go well for her. At least with the Shibchenko thing,

she can maybe sneak that one in. That's super possible. So I think Shibchenko should. And I think this will be her last fight at Flyweight. And then we can, you know, 125 can move on with the new generation. Real quick, I want to get to one last question. I keep getting in my DMs because the feature about's a good one too, Luke Thomas, Diego Lopez versus Brian Ortega.

We're supposed to get at UFC 303. We all know what happened. It was the night Danny Gay became a hero to fight fans around the world. And now we're trying again. So obviously, the fight with the scale is going to be huge tomorrow for Brian Ortega at Weyens. But considering what this division looks like, we have a title fight coming up next month, best fight on the calendar the rest of the year. we have a Vloy of Sterling coming up next month

and oh yeah there's Alexander Volcanowski waiting for his chance to get the belt back and Lopez is 29 yes he's got a little bit of mileage on him but a lot stings but I don't think this destroys him at all Ortega could be a different story he's already fought for the belt twice and he's had a very weird last few years

is this a must win for Brian Ortega on Saturday? No no I don't think that it is it will be decisive but I don't think it's cataclysmic if he loses. And the reasoning is fairly straightforward, right? So here's what I mean. Okay, so this fight against Lopez is just fucking awesome. I mean, I don't know how it's going to go, right? Everyone's like, oh, they've got similar

styles of jihitsu. No, they don't. No, they don't. Not even similar styles of fighting. Yes, it is true that Brian Ortega has that kind of clamp where he can jump on a guillotine. He can throw up a triangle very quickly. But he doesn't have that kind of always on offense that you see from Diego Lopez. Like, there's a consistent thread with him. And even like the Siddique Yusuf fight where the instant Yusuf drops his hands, here comes Lopez firing a shot over the top. Like he's just always got offense. He's always playing speed chess in West 4th, right, in New York City.

That's the kind of game that he's got, right? That's not exactly what Brian Ortega is. Brian Ortega to me is a little bit more what you see in the Korean zombie fight or it's a little bit more methodical. He can jump on stuff if he has to, but I don't think he prefers it necessarily that way. And I also think he's got slightly more technical jiu-jitsu, but that remains to be seen, we shall see.

It's an awesome fight. But you're talking about like, is this do or die for Brian Ortega? Well, again, it could be bad, especially if he ends up taking a beating. I don't know how likely that is, but he's taken enough damage where if another fight happens, where an incredible beating is handed out,

he might survive it because that's how tough he is, but I don't know how much good that will do. But he said something in the lead up to this fight, we had him in morning combat, he's been done it in other places, where he's kind of already got eyes on 155. And I got to tell you, Brian Ortega seems to me like not a great candidate for a UFC title fight at 155, although

stranger things have happened. But like, what the fuck are we doing if a guy like that doesn't fight for a BMF title at some point? I mean, it just seems like he'd be a great candidate depending on who's available. I'm not saying you have to give it to him. But if he goes to 155 and depending on what happens with Max at 145 with Ilya, could you run Max and Ortega again at 55? I don't know if you really want to do that, but if Max loses and the belt goes in a different direction, I'm just saying a guy as consistently exciting, a guy willing to go out on his shield as Brian Ortega, a guy who is capable of sometimes the magic that he has shown, the notion that a loss in a three-round fight to Diego Lopez,

while it could be very important, would be like the end of big fight opportunities for him. I'm skeptical of that. again, with a couple other factors being in play with the beating being one of them, I think if this is competitive and he looks good for most of it, but just kind of gets, you know, loses two rounds out of three. And we're like, well, that was pretty good. He just didn't have enough from one round or the other. That's the end.

I don't buy that. Maybe at 1.45, it's the end. But at 55, with the BMF floating around, seems a little premature to bury him under those circumstances. Jed, what's say you? Do you agree with that? I mean, look, Brander-Tegg is still a name and they're still in. interesting fights for him. So it's not like the UFC will cut him if he loses, but in terms of getting like tippy top fights and ever getting a title shot again, is this a must win for him?

I think it's relatively meaningless if he loses this fight. I mean, it probably prevents, if he loses, he probably never fights for the featherweight title again. But it's also just unlikely he fights for the featherway title again anyway. The list of people who have thrice challenged for a belt and having never won a belt in that time is extremely small. You're talking Uriah Faber, you know. So it's just really unlikely it gets to anyway. Frankly, that's probably good. Can, like, I say this a lot.

Brian Rortega just abhors defense. He refuses to defend himself on the feet whatsoever. And I can't honestly imagine something worse for his physical health than fighting Ilya and just being too tough to get knocked cold, but just having his brain clattered around inside his skull for 20 minutes until the doctor mercifully steps in. Like, what Max did to him with, but instead of it being a bald peen hammer, it's a sledgehammer. Like, it would just be so bad for him. So, yeah, I don't think he's going to get there anyway.

Maybe he does. Like, I do think the loss probably removes that. But who cares? Like, the fun about Brian Ortega is that he is fun. And to Luke's point, they're an infinite number of fun. things to do with him. Frankly, this fight, while good, like, this is a good, interesting fight is like the least fun thing that I could think to do with Brian Ortega at this point in time. When he was like, I'm going up to lightweight, I was like, sick, let's do that.

I would very much like to watch you fight Ben Wausandini or Charles Olivera. Or the contrasting styles of Brian Ortega versus Justin Gaichie, either Justin Gaichie cracks his chin and kills him or take against it to the ground and Justin Gagey immediately gets it gets tapped out. Like so many fun things are available at 155. Those things don't include working his way to a title fight because that just wouldn't happen there. But like it's just more fun. I think we can have more fun with him in 155.

And so frankly, I hope he loses. I hope that this expedites his journey up to the more fun weight class. And, you know, we move past the 145 and let the new crop come in. It's good fight. I also love Daniel Zelle Huber versus Esteban Riebeovich. That's a great fight too.

Can't wait to see that play out. And we'll find that out on Saturday. But first, we got to discuss the good and the weird from this past weekend. We'll put a quick bow on things there. Point for round three goes to I support evolution. And I think Jed is evolving to a positive young man. That was the nicest Brian Ortega round ever from Jed Mishu. Two to one.

Nicely done. My only issue with Brian Ortega is that he in Fury. me. It's the only problem I have with him is that he should not be as successful as he is. And I can't. It's a me problem. It's one of those where it's on me. I can't understand him. And so it bothers me. But that's not his fault. That's true. Whereas Michael Chandler, it is his fault. He is the problem. Fair enough. Towards the night before the gathering and all through the house, the host rapid cozy cashmere

throw from Homense. for their spouse, kids toys for $6.99 under the tree, and crystal glasses for just $14.99 for their brother Lee, a baking dish made in Portugal for Tom and Sue, and a nice $599 candle, perfectly priced just for you. Happy holidays to all, and to all a good price. Home sense, endless presents perfectly priced. Well, who didn't really have too much of a problem this past Saturday was Sean Brady. It's the biggest win of his career. He beats Gilbert Burns at UFC Vegas 97. Fun fight, not all that close.

And Brady seems to be back on track, winning two straight in pretty dominant fashion since the lost two of Wall Mohammed. Jed will start with you. How impressed were you with Sean Brady on Saturday? This is going to, I'm taking all that newfound optimism, and I'm going to use it. That was money in the bank for my pessimism here.

Because I want to be clear, I'm not not impressed by Sean Brady. But I wasn't dazzled. Like, I am as minimally impressed as possible by a guy getting a very, very quality win in rock solid fashion. And that is unfortunate. And I feel bad to say this to Sean Brady. I'm so sorry, Sean, because I have long been a fan and a supporter of you. I like watching you fight.

I think you are very, very good. I think you are the guy I talk about all the time who you are one of the 10,000. best fighters in the world and you're one of the 10 best people in the world at your job and we should celebrate that because that is a very hard thing to do in any endeavor but you are never going to be one of the best guy in the world that your job and that was kind of my takeaway of that fight is Sean Brady's improving I thought he looked good and if he rolls sevens just 10 times a row if he high rolls every time for the next two years maybe he can sneak his way to the belt because God knows we've seen a couple people do it a welterweight.

Leon Edwards, honestly, was not that dissimilar. Bala Muhammad, current champion, not that dissimilar. But I left that fight thinking, more thinking that Gilbert Burns is past it than I did thinking Sean Brady has elevated to a level where he is a legitimate title threat. He's still young enough to add some more tools to get better and maybe change my mind down the line. But that fight to me felt a lot more of,

Gilbert just doesn't have it at this high level. Gilbert is no longer gatekeeper to the top five. He is gatekeeper to the top 10, and for as long as he can hold out. And so it was a great win. It is a meaningful, consummate professional win, but it was not a win that said to me, we got to fast-track this man to title contention right now because he might be the best to wait in the world.

Luke, do you agree with Jed that this is more about the decline of Gilwood Burns than the rise of Sean Brady? Halfway. Halfway agree. So here's my read on that was this. In the wrestling and the grappling department, which of course is Gilbert's bread and butter, I thought he was still a pretty tough test. And I know the scores ended up being somewhat lopsided in the end, but I actually thought in terms of the grappling, some of the switches he was hitting, some of the dumps that you saw Gilbert get to. I mean, that was still pretty

clever stuff and Sean had to really kind of scramble through even latent fights in order to get there. I thought on that level, it was a very difficult test that Sean Brady passed. And then you add in the cardio factor, right, for a five round five, it ended up being actually really impressive. So on the grappling side, the fact that he was able to get a take down, I think you got seven takedowns on Gilbert, almost one or more in every round and had to really kind of work for it with a very, very clever opponent, even an older one, was really impressive. And then I would also say, again, the cardio component, this kind of smothering effect that they had where they were just on him all the time, whether it was the wrestling or the striking, and then sticking to that game plan, which was very

effective in shutting down an older guy, not really willing to throw. That was also impressive. The thing that I would say, well, I have some hesitation was one in the standup, Gilbert being unwilling to throw to me as one of those taill tale signs that he's getting older, right? He just is just not willing to engage offensively on the feet. that is usually a big red flag. I did see some of that. The other thing I would say about Brady that really occurred to me was

his striking got better. Again, commitment to the game plan, the blitzing really worked very well for him. He was putting multi-strike combinations together, kicks to the body, kicks to the legs. It was all great. But it didn't necessarily have a damaging effect. It counted in a sort of a cumulative way as being valuable,

but it wasn't really hurting Gilbert in the way that I kind of would hoped it would. So, you know, listen, you take the guilt, excuse me the Kelvin Gasselin fight where he just ran him over and then submitted him and then in this one where he was able to control you know a very very difficult opponent I still take that as a as a hugely important win

like his ground game like I've talked to Michael Kiesa about how strong Sean Brady is and he was like holy shit dude this guy was like rolling with a fucking primate at the zoo like it was hard to even like break his grip it was so strong you know it was insane that is always going to be something that's going to be hard for

any welter way to deal with even a guy like Shavcott who takes some risks offensively. Like look at old Shafcott fights. A lot of the throws he gets where when he's getting pressed into the fence and then he gets, you know, an opponent who's not really paying attention. He can chuck them. You know, Brady could be, use those opportunities much more to his advantage, right? So I think it's a little foolish to look past that.

However, it would also be disingenuous to say, hey, was that Gilbert at 33? No. I don't think that was Gilbert at 33, even though I think in certain dimensions, he's still a bit of a difficult test for guys. And then over on Max, we saw Uspen and Amalgamatov defeat Alexander Shabli. Did we see that? Did anybody see that? I did.

I was sad about it. If a Bellator event takes place and no one's there, did it actually happen? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, by the way, as I said the beginning, there is actually a Bellator card on Saturday. There really truly is. But Uspen wins, Jed. Sure.

This was the big test for the young man in a lot of people's eyes. This would be the fight where, you know, this is the toughest test of his career. He's beaten some decent competition. We're very high on him. Obviously, the skills are there. But Shably hasn't lost in a very, very long time. And he's criminally underrated and probably one of the 15 best fighters in this division. And one of the best fighters that nobody really truly knows about.

And then Oospin goes in and wins and gets sort of a lopsided decision on the cards. Did he answer your questions or do you still have a lot more after this performance? He raised new questions. questions, actually. So this was one of those fights that I was very excited about because I didn't think about it at all. I was just like, oh, hell yeah, that's like really good fighters. That's to steal the Jose Young's line. Look at that. This is a high level martial arts. I'm pretty pumped. It's going to be best by the weekend before really thinking like, actually, stylistically, this fight is probably not going to be that fun. And that's really what it turned into

is one of those like just thankless wins against an extremely extremely. extremely tough guy who does not get the credit he deserves and is very tough to look good against. You know, Usman got a workman-like win and certainly didn't dazzle in the way that you would want, like, the next Nirmica-Madoff too. And so partly, like, I want to temper my, you know, experience there and be like, yeah, this is a tough out, great performance, still undefeated, unbelievably talented guy out of one of the best camps in the sport, et cetera, et cetera. It did raise some questions for me just in that I don't know if Usman knows who he is

as a fighter yet. And he's still young and so there's plenty of time. But like I did like a, I wrote about this a little bit because there is this idea that Islam is just Habib 2.0. And I think that that's incredibly incorrect. And that Islam is actually like almost the exact inverse of Habib in a lot of ways, probably because they were the primary training partners for each other for over a decade. But, like, you know, they're working with similar tools and have similar techniques,

but the way they approach fights is very different. And to that extent, I also think the way Umar approaches fights is not the same as the way Habib or Islam. I think all of them are very different. And to me, Usman is the guy who has maybe the most, the broadest tool belt of them all. and it doesn't feel like he has an identity in the cage and the way that Habib's identity is, I am going to kill you. I am a force of nature and I will move through you.

And Islam is all defense and then taking the path of leadership resistance. And I don't really know what Usman has in that. Like he's obviously more willing and able to strike than other people out of that camp, but it doesn't ever feel like that's his primary objective. He's just kind of still figuring himself out. And so to me, honestly, my big takeaway of the fight was, I wonder what he's going to be,

because I think he is still very much in development and is already one of the 10 best dudes in the world. And so I'm fascinated to see how his career plays out. And frankly, I would like him to leave Bellator. There is one, maybe two interesting fights remaining that could happen there. earlier today the AJ McKee Paul Hughes fight got announced the winner of that obviously but I want to see him fight a bunch of very very good dudes and most of those good dudes currently reside in the UFC I'd like to see him with the big boys soon

Luke what did you take away from Usman's win first thing I took away is I can't think of another major promotion that has a more Cal Ripkin like attendance streak than Bellator when it comes to getting their main events booed out of the fucking building I mean an incredible run that they are on. And I'm not even saying it was fair necessarily in this case. I'm just saying the Bellator magic is at the end of the night, the people have just had enough. And they just boo the shit out of the main event.

It is unbelievable. You can go back years at this point. It's really an impressive streak that they've got going, even under new ownership. Amazing. That aside, I actually agree with Jed, but I would say I would perhaps frame it a little bit differently. you know, it's kind of interesting to me.

Like, Habib has this, I'm not going to say control. It might be, maybe that is fair, a little bit controlling, very domineering way of doing practices. Eric Nixick has talked about the fact that he just turns off the music and then just starts yelling at him and, you know, is guiding the practices with very, very close control. That kind of tells you what he's all about. Usman is a very, like, not to borrow the word from TikTok everywhere,

but a bit of a demure guy. He's, you know, a little bit soft-spoken. And then Islam is to an extent, but he's kind of funny as well. Umar is starting to get a little bit more chirpy. Usen's very, very quiet. He doesn't say a lot. He doesn't do a ton of media. He doesn't really make a lot of noise.

He just is kind of almost a little bit, still at the stage of his career where he's a little bit along for the ride. He's 26 years old. I do agree with Jed. He doesn't really know who he is. And in part, you know, the fact that he's got offensive options

confuses him a little bit. With Habib, you know, he had, I think, mechanical to helpful striking to a degree. But he didn't really have, like, useful. striking very much. It wasn't really a thing. Islam does, but Islam has that sort of as I would agree, a very defense-oriented approach first and then let's guys make mistakes and then really overtakes them. That's the Charles-Hola Verifai. It's a great example of that. Usman has this wide range of ability. He can strike pretty well. He can do it at distance. You can do

it up close. He's got take downs from the clinch. You can shoot from the outside. He's got good defense everywhere. He's got this wide-ranging ability. And so he doesn't really lean into them other than what he needs for any individual moment or I'm sure they had some kind of game plan for Shibli, who by the way is a very tricky, difficult opponent to deal with. And so it's going to be hard to look super awesome against him anyway. But I think that the long-term potential for Usman is extraordinary.

26 years old, 18 and O, he's already this good. Yes, figuring out exactly what works best for him in a way where he's got an offensive identity is going to be key in the next two, three years, but he's got time. He's already this good. Leaving Belator team

seems to me a foregone conclusion unless PFL ties him up in some kind of contractual issue. I think how high he can actually go, I don't know, but I'm really high on his upside because this much development, and he's just 26, holy shit, he's going to be a force for quite some time. This fight wasn't necessarily the kind that tells you, oh, my God. I'm so filled with, you know, glee and wonder that I can't wait to see what's next, but just sort of reading the tea leaves about it all,

It should make you, at a bare minimum, cautiously optimistic for a guy who's got a considerable amount of ability, but it's still needing more experience to set out on what course he wants to take. All right. Last thing on this. And I know a lot of times when you talk about Bellator and PFL, we kind of dump on them because they do so many things wrong. But this event as a whole, this is my role on Saturday. I was the Bellator guy. the times i was i didn't know what time this thing started no clue this was a slog like this thing dragged the amount of time it took from a fight ending to the official decision being announced was forever it was crazy the pacing sucked like luke said the fans are booing quite a bit but the kicker luke thomas oh i know i know i know what you're gonna say well go ahead it became a little it was kind of clear throughout fight week that this wasn't about usw and or magamate i or Alexander Shabli or anybody else in the card. And it became crystal clear during and after the fight that it wasn't about Usa Nirmagamatov and Alexander Shabli. Oh no, ladies and gentlemen,

this is about Habib Narmaghamad Madov, a guy who is not under contract with this promotion, a guy who will never fight again more than likely. And if he does, he will never do it in your company. The Habib Kam all fight long was incredibly bizarre and weird. And then the fight ends. And Uspin, Nirmagamadav gets the biggest win of his career, and they get fucking Habib on the microphone

before the friggin champion of the world who just battled for 25 minutes. Luke, what in the Rudy Pooh blue hell is going on here? What the hell is this? This is so ridiculous. I'll tell you exactly what it is. It is, first of all, utterly indefensible. Utterly indefensible.

There is not one good reason to have a corner cam up for 23 minutes of a 25-minute fight where they're yelling in frantic Russian. And by the way, apparently a dialect, Russian that made it impossible for the Russian translator to even tell us what the fuck Habib is saying. So you've got poor Jimmy Smith, a great commentator, Sean O'Connell, a great commentator, having to compete with frantic Russian that no one can translate with his face on the screen. The entire, I mean, it is, listen, someone said this to me once, and it's a little less true

now because they've absorbed some of the talent from Belator, who I think have been there a long time. Like, you got like Mike Kogan. Mike Kogan, this would not apply to. But somebody told me this once, and it's really the truest thing that anyone, one's ever said about PFL, which is that the guys who run it, they're not fight people. They're not. There might be C-suite executives who can get deals done and they might sell it for something down the line, but they just don't know fighting.

And I'm not sure who made that call to put Habib on the screen, but my guess is going to be it's somebody who doesn't know fighting and doesn't know what fight fans want and doesn't know what makes for an enjoyable fight experience because they're not people that understand fighting all that well. And that may be hard to understand. How can you own a league or be the head of a league or have an executive role in a league and not understand fighting? This is proof that it's happening.

This is proof. No one on fucking earth ever makes that call who understands and respects the fight game in the way that it is supposed to be respected. You dump on all over a guy who's 26, who's one of your ostensibly champions within your broader array of brands that exist in the company. and he got virtually no fucking rub from the entire thing. Granted, not the most electric fight, but still should have been more than that.

Utterly incomprehensible, but for the fact that the people running the organization, they're not fight people, and this was proof positive of that. Jed, what did you think of this? This is just insane. It was very, very silly. I was just like, when's it going away?

And then it became very apparent that it was not going away. I was like, well, because it's not like, like the fight was a banger and you needed a reaction from him all the time. A lot of the fight was nothing happening. So you're just looking at a dude watching a fight. It was very silly. And objectively speaking, everything Luke said is correct. This is the thing that we should be in Umbudsman about. Like, this is where our vitriol should be pointed because, you know, Usman deserves the mic first, et cetera. And all of that is a hundred percent active. accurate. I am more okay with the Habib cam than I am with them with the whatever your thoughts

of Bellator and God knows there are literal days worth of footage of me shitting on them on this program and others. The one thing that I always gave them credit for was they were a reasonable watch. It might be 16 fights with a bunch of cans and people who have no resume. but they are whipping through them. They are shoving people out of the cage to put new people in and just firing bullets. Let's get this done. And to bring PFL pacing to Bellator is I think the gravest sin

that can be committed in fight sport. Like to ruin the one good thing Belator had for it other than his roster with that shit was, I felt so bad for you. I had it on the screen because it was working, but like it wasn't my primary focus. I was like, this is, this cannot be. We have to not do this.

So if you give me a choice, I would choose, like, if I got to remove one of those things, give me Habib Cam every week. It's stupid and silly, but it's better than that god-awful pacing. That was bad. It was so bad. I remember the Bellator prelims back in the day. There were no post-fight interviews. By the time the winner, like, took his photo with this team.

They're already hustling the next. You could see the next fighter coming down the ramp. It was the best. Dude, I mean, I understand this. Kevin K, who used to run Spike TV, told me, you know, granted, like some of these things work,

some of these things didn't. But one thing that they wanted to do, he actually told me this was when Bellator first aired on Spike TV, the live events on Spike TV, that when it first came on, the broadcast started when folks could see the cage. He wanted to make sure the audience could see both fighters in the cage when the broadcast started.

We've come a long way from that. We sure have. We've come a long way. long way from the start of the show as well. So we have to award this point for round number four. And it goes to Mr. Habib came himself, Luke Thomas. Two to two.

Very nice. Confetti flies. There's the music. All right. That means we have time for one final question, everybody. It's the knockout round 60 seconds each for each of these competitors to answer the same question. Jed, you are the man.

I know you kind of got screwed by the judges. You got Schenkoed last week. by that damn E. Casey Liden because she's been all shot. He was leaving the website and it was his last time on the program. But you're still the winner in my heart. So you get to decide whether you want to go first or pass it on over to Luke. I'll make Luke go first because I don't know if you can hear this. But the dreaded landscapers have arrived.

And so we're going to hope to navigate this better if I make Luke go first. So you're going first? No, no. We're making Luke go first because the landscapers are. I thought you said you were going to go first. Okay. No, the landscapers are looming. Oh, the looming landscapers.

All right. So, Luke, here's the question. Because there's a lot of discussion about this. There's Canello in Berlanga versus UFC 306. And Sean O'Malley has said, look, I want to steal the headlines from everybody. I want to be the guy that everybody's talking about on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday. When all the combat shows, sports shows start on Monday, I want to be the top story. So my question to you is, what will the headline read on a Monday show?

what will be the biggest talking point coming out of Saturday? What will the big headline from the weekend read? Go. The big headline from the weekend is unfortunately probably not going to be about Sean O'Malley or even Alexa Grasso and Valentina Shevchenko, although they will be featured pretty heavily. The answer is going to be, or I should say the headline will be UFC Sphere Show dazzles. Again, I don't know if this will happen.

Who's to say I can't predict the future? I'm not Miss Cleo and even she was a fucking charlatan, so I can't pretend to be anything better. However, however, that is where all the focus is. That is quite literally where all the money is. I mean, the money ain't in the fighter roster. I can tell you that. The money is going to the sphere.

The money is going to the production. The money is going to the show to make sure they deliver. And the UFC has been promoting it exactly as that. And I think one way or the other, they're going to convince a lot of their friends and partners in the media, and just general skeptics in general, that they actually succeeded. They found a way to do it.

They found a way to push through. they created something new and different and novel. How big of a victory lap it will be, I don't know, but it's going to dominate the headlines on Monday. All right. Hands up. We'll get this professional, getting in and not spending five minutes, like his co-host.

Yeah, man, you are not Brian Campbell in this knockout run. That I could tell you. Jed Mishu, you know the question. Hopefully the landscapers will oblige. There's the, ooh, the magic eight ball is here. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. 60 seconds on the clock.

Go. Luke may not be Miss Cleo, and neither am I, but I have the magic eight ball. And it will tell me this is a special one because it just gives me the answers. The headline will be Jed Mishu makes $25,000 for finding all the Easter eggs at the USC Sphere show. Mike, we got a watch party. It's my first watch party for USC 306, Noche, whatever the hell. and we will be Easter egg a hunting to get this bounty that Dana White has put out there. I would say that I'm in the top 1% of MMA historical knowledge.

I wouldn't say that I'm like the number one guy, but I got a deep well of knowledge. And we're going to be staring at my television right there. You guys can't see it's off camera. And you and I are going to find all of them. And then when it's done, we will have $25,000 to upgrade for the next watch party. and that's going to be all anyone's talking about. It will be our own personal sphere for UFC 307 after we win the big prize.

Nicely done. That would be incredible. That'd be great. And we are, look, spoiler alert, it's going to be John Jones related. We already know what's going to be. There's going to be like a goat flying around. There's going to be all sorts of different things that relate back to John Jones. Yeah, that's probably what it's going to be.

So be prepared for yourselves, but we'll watch it together. 9.45 p.m. Eastern on. Saturday night right here on this channel. So get your votes in. Cast your vote. E. Casey Lead will pop in in in the second and announce the winner. The bottom of the screen. Incredible.

Some programming notes. 6 p.m. Eastern. We'll be back here. Laura Sanko's going to join me. We'll be live. We'll do a little preview of UFC 30 to 45 minutes. That'll be fun. We'll have the way-ins tomorrow.

Preview show 4 p.m. Eastern. Myself and Jed. Jed will be in the host chair. I get to play Pundit in the Pundit chair. and then the people's pre-fight show on Saturday. I think we're going to go at like 6.30 p.m. Eastern time. I think the card starts at 7.30 p.m. Eastern time, but we're going to roll a little bit earlier

so you guys can go get your food or whatever, make a quick packy run so you can get your beverages of choice to watch the entire 10-fight card. And then we'll have your coverage. Jose will be there, boots on the ground, etc., watch party. It's going to be a good weekend. Fun-filled, lots happening. So, yes, vote, and we will just await

the arrival of Mr. Sleeves are optional, E. Casey Leiden. Do not see him yet. Oh, there he is. No sleeves. No sleeves. Yes. Minus 550 ticket caches.

Casey, do we have a winner? Oh, yeah, we got a winner. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Sir, winner is competitive. That's an, yeah, I mean, that's an opinion. You're a winner today with 70% of the vote. Oh, shit.

Holy shit. 106th, 106. Jesus. And still undefeated. Oh. Fucking Thomas. Yeah. 70%.

Jesus. Jesus. That might be the most lopsided victory in the history of this program. That might even defeat Brian Campbell breeding Jose Youngs without actually answering the knockout round question at all. I just don't even know what to say. But Lou, congratulations, my man. The people love you. What do you want to say to them? Floor George. Hey, thanks for having me on the show. This is a lot of fun and enjoy this confetti. It's one of my favorite things in the world. It's very real and I have a great time with it.

Hey, don't be dickheads about the sphere. Not all of us will be there. I won't even be there. But maybe it'll be fun. Try to enjoy it. Try not to be miserable once in your life. And I'm saying that as somebody who is miserable 24-7, 365. But this is an opportunity. opportunity to let some of that misery go. Don't let the hate flow through you. Uh, the rule of two, the Sith come always and two. Here's what I want to plug. Guys, my live chat is going to be today at three. You can enjoy it. I'm going to have a post-fight show. You can check out on my YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash Luke Thomas. And, uh, yeah, it should be a lot of fun. Jed is great. He looks like he would shoot you at a, at a quick trip over a parking spot for a gasoline. But that's the

great part about Georgia. You never know who's packing, huh? Hey. what do you think about that, that's bad, huh? I had fun. It was a great time. Luke, I don't know why your live chat is really bad at uploading

to my podcast app, but I would just get like three of them. Can I tell you the truth? Can I tell you the truth about this? I haven't even told it. Guys, I came back with some kind of skin infection from my fucking vacation.

And I'm, I am like living in doctor's offices because they cannot figure out what is wrong with it. And I know that's not really the best. Zero Mountain Dew is helping a lot. Yeah. The Mountain Dew is probably the only thing killing it, to be honest with you.

I have been literally in doctors offices. I've counted it in the last 26 days. I've had 17 visits. So it's fucking killing me. Not literally, but my time and it fucked up my schedule. I apologize. They're both up. They're both up now.

So there you go. They are. I have back to back. I was listening to one earlier. It's great. Go watch his live chat. Or not watch. Listen to it.

Come on. What are we animals? Watch this show. And that's it. I love you guys to see you on, I'll see you tomorrow, but also watch party. I'm excited. Hit the music. We're out of here.

Appreciate you all. Tuning into the program, we'll be back next Thursday. We'll do it again. We'll react to all things UFC 306. And then we'll have to find other shit to talk about because there's no UFC event to preview, which is nice. We get a little week off to digest everything. So for Luke, for Jed, Casey on the ones and twos, I am Mike Heck, the iconic voice of Estia Lin takes you home.

We'll see you. at 6 p.m. Eastern for a little UFC 306 preview with myself and Laura Sanko. Good night, everybody. Love y'all. This has been Between the Length. In the Fighting Production on the Box Media Network.