MMA Fighting - BTL | Pantoja vs. Asakura, Rakhmonov vs. Garry, UFC 311 Breaking News, PFL’s future

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

UFC 310 goes down this Saturday in Las Vegas, and in the main event, Alexandre Pantoja welcomes former RIZIN champ Kai Asakura to the promotion in his third defense of the UFC flyweight title. In the co-main event, Shavkat Rakhmonov puts his welterweight title shot on the line against fellow undefeated contender Ian Machado Garry. Despite the lack of star power, is UFC 310 one of the best cards on paper of 2024? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel previews Saturday's pay-per-view card, the main event between Pantoja and Asakura, and discuss where the winner goes from there. Additionally, topics include the significance of the Rakhmonov vs. Garry No. 1 contender fight, what it means for the winner in terms of perception from the fan base and community, other standout fights, the PFL's World Championship card this past Friday, what they need to do to be successful in 2025 and beyond, and much more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Morning Kombat's Luke Thomas. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Luke Thomas: @lthomasnews Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome aboard Air Canada. Rocky's vacation, here we come. Whoa, is this economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet. Fast-free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing the game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation.

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On MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. Yes, we're getting into the holiday spirit. Thanksgiving is over, and we're giving thanks and takes about the wonderful world, of mixed martial arts from UFC 310 to the PFL and where they go in 2025 to even the UFC kicking off 2025's pay-per-view schedule with a friggin' bang. We'll discuss that and much more

on today's show. And who will be here to discuss this variety of topics? Glad you asked. First, let us introduce the hot take kid himself, Mr. No Gray area, the Baron of Boop, Mr. No Bet's Bard, the Mike Bobo of MMA media, one might say. I wouldn't say that. He is Jed Bishu from M&A Fighting. Hi, Jedd. People who don't know, I was dancing. I was getting all my titles, was dancing, and then you say that shit.

Those are fighting words. If anybody calls me the Mike Bobo of anything, it's on site. It's nonsense. And also, I have a fun story to share with you, Mike. So you're going to have to delay introing our next guest because my morning has been wild. So I, fuck it, bring him in,

and then we can talk about it, because my morning's been quite funny. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, it's hard to follow that up, but we will try because everybody loves a good collaboration. And we love it too as once again, we tag in a member of the legendary morning combat duo, one half of the MMA podcasting tag team champions of the world, the live chat king himself and one of the OGs of this here website. Let's say hello to the great and very powerful Luke friggin Thomas. Luke, welcome back, my man. Thank you for having me, gentlemen. Glad to be back. I'm curious what happened to Jed. You get into another fist fight at the quick trip? No, I didn't. It was actually is far more amusing than that.

So I live in loft apartments and we have like a community room. And last night, like there's a, we have a big group thread of the hundred of us who live here or whatever the hell number it is. And last night someone was like, hey, something's happening. Turns out that two dudes have been living in our like community room that like, like, community room that, like, like just living in there and stealing everybody's packages. And this morning they got caught and one of them went into the bathroom and locked himself in there. And so there were just some cops hanging in the community room waiting for this dude to leave the bathroom. Because there's nowhere to go.

Like he's stuck at some point he'll come out and eventually he did. But it's just like an hour. It's like, yeah, there's a guy locked in the bathroom. He won't come out. It was incredibly funny. Are you living at the Howard Johnson? Where are you living? I live downtown Atlanta, baby.

You living in Laquinta Inn? What's going on? Acono Lodge? What's going on down there? It's great. We have like a social community room where you can host events and do shit. And live. Apparently live.

Nobody had any idea until like a bunch of packages got stolen and then they figured it out. And yeah, it was an incredible. incredibly funny. Just like, go outside, you know, go walk to get a mail, going to the gym. And it's like, what are these cops doing here? It's like, oh, some dude locked himself in the bathroom. He's secretly been sleeping here for the last week. Awesome. So did you, did you go in there and talk to the cops? No, I just walked by and asked one of the neighbors. Like, what the hell is going on? They're like, oh, okay. Well, I'm going to continue about my day. But all right.

Shout out to the fine folks in the great city of Atlanta. Tough to transition from. Shout out to those wild boarding projections. What a king move. I'm just going to live in this place and steal your Amazon packages. Absolute king shit. Unreal. And there's the horn of success.

But let's get into this. No time to waste because in a little over 48 hours from right now, the UFC will close out their pay-per-view calendar year with UFC 310. We have Alexandra Pantosha versus Kaya Sakura as the main event for the flyway title. And we'll get to that fight in a moment. We got Shafcott Rachmana versus Ian Machado, Gary.

We'll talk about that in a little while. That's a five-rounder with incredibly high stakes. We get Cyril Gond versus Alexander Volcroft 2. Bryce Mitchell versus Krohn Gracie, a fight that has drummed up quite a bit of chatter. Nate Landauer versus Duho Choi opens up the main card. Plus we get fights like Anthony Smith versus Dominic Reyes, Movzar of Lawyer versus Al Jemaine Sterling, Chris Wyden versus Erickanders, Vescenti Lucay Temba Rimbo,

Randy Brown, Brian Battle. Michael Kiesa is fighting on the early, early prelims against Max Griffin and much more. So Luke, I would begin with you because, yes, UFC 309 had John Jones on it and Stipe fought on it and Chandler and Oliveira fought on it, and those are big names, certainly. I think there is zero question that 310 is better on paper, top to bottom than 309 was. And while this isn't UFC 300 level depth because you'd be hard pressed to find a card better than that, Star Power aside,

can you make the case that this is the second best card on paper for the UFC this year from Fight 1 to Fight 14? Ooh. That's a tough one. I don't know if I can, I don't know if I could say that it's better than 300 top to bottom. I realized that 300 in some ways was disappointing both before during and after, although it had the punctuated moments along the way,

and I think the card quality in general was pretty good. I don't know if I could go 1 to 14 if that's that, but like your general sentiment is, I mean, inarguable. There are a couple of fights on the card, your Chris Widman, Eric Anders fight. I think the one that opens the card, yeah, the Kennedy is Etchku, and then the Lucas, I don't even have to say his last name. the guy was like nine and five.

Not appointment viewing per se, but literally I would argue absent that, absent those two fights, literally the rest of them have some kind of interesting charm, whether it's Clay Gweta and Chase Hooper, a bizarre kind of fun fight. Obviously, a rematch from a grappling bout that they had, that, by the way, Chase Hooper won via calf slicer.

Then you go up the line, Randy Brown versus Brian Battle. I don't know what that will be, but it'll be chaos probably for, as long as it lasts. And I haven't gotten to the main card yet. Sterling and Evaloy, there's an entire debate about which placement, but it sort of does speak to that, the fact that there is quality both before that bout. And then after it, you can continue going on.

I would say Reyes versus Smith, at a bare minimum, still is quite consequential for two figures that did play an important role in that division for at least some period of time. And then the main card all the way up has some, I mean, Cron Gracey, Bryce Mitchell, again, I don't know what that's going to be, because Crone Gracie, He's a very, very difficult guy to predict in any kind of way. But Bryce Mitchell, folks forget he might not like seatbelts. Probably hates condoms too. I don't know about antibiotics.

But I do know this. He's only 30 years old, Cron Gracie 36 years old. So that by itself makes it for an interesting contest. And then all the way up the rest of the card. And so it's not a perfect card. I don't know if it's the very best one. But the UFC should be able to pull off cards like, or I should say this way. Only the UFC could routinely pull off cards like this, given the resources that they have.

there's a lot to like here. Yeah, Jed, this isn't 300. Like, we know this isn't 300. We talked about it like days before maybe being the best card of all time from top to bottom that the UFC had put together. But outside of that, like $2.99 was real good. Like that main card was loaded up. And there were some big names that were on other cards.

But when we look at the actual depth of this lineup and fights that have actual stakes and significance, this is pretty frigging good. Where would you put this one? it's their best of the year. Nothing will ever be 300. 300 is the best card of all time. Top to bottom delivered the best card. I know people may have been, you know, we wanted Connor or whatever.

Like, no, it was the best card to assemble top to bottom ever. So that that just is what it is. $2.99 was also sick. And like, we can't forget that because I just pulled it up and we're, you know, it's coming and was like, oh, yeah. It's not just the O'Malley Cheeto, Dustin, B. ESD, MVP versus Kevin Holland, Jack Della, Gilbert Burns, Pior de Jan, Song, Yadong. The opening fight of the evening was Joanne Wood, Marina Morose.

Like, Asuamobayev was on the card, C.J. Vergara, like, $299 was an unbelievably stacked card as well. And as low as I am to agree, because Kenny Nunchucks has a special place in my heart, 299 doesn't have a Kennedy and Zuchuku Lucas Breski sort of fight on it to kind of lower its level a little bit there so yeah 299 is number two and then I think for my money top to bottom the totality of the card 310 is the next best it's got everything on it and it's got some things that other things don't have that other fight cards didn't have because sure a 100 Pintoja Kai Asakura is kind of a weird main event asikora hasn't made 125 and like six years. So there's even just an outstanding question of whether this fight will go down. We would like to assume that it will, but you never know. It's odd in some respect, certainly in that way.

But Luke just kind of blew past this. The most important fight of the weekend, Mike, is happening on this main part. Arguably the most important fight of the year, two men for the first time ever are fighting for a cabinet position in the incoming presidential administration. when the flat earth goal between Bryce Mitchell and Cron Gracie takes place. Normally, behind me, I would have my multi, my Mushulen star rating. But since I don't know if Bryce Mitchell even believes in stars,

I decided we would go to flat earth instead of stars because that's what's happening here. It's the best. I know that it's like not as meaningful as Mubbs or EBS or Eversussela and Stirling. It's the funniest fight DFCs ever put together. and people aren't appreciating enough just how absolutely insane it is that this is happening in the year of our Lord 2024. Bryce Mitchell's out here

being like seatbelts are dumb. Like, come on. This is the best fight. It's the most UFC fight ever and it could not be more excited about it. Yo, let me interject here if I may. You know, not wearing seatbelts or like being, not anti-seatbelt,

but like just not seeing the point. Like, you know how some people are like, oh, BJJ doesn't work, just stand up, it's a scam. I wonder if he views swimming as that, like the ability to not drown as like a scam. Like swimming is actually a scam. Like drowning. Drowning's not real.

It's like, well, I think it is. You don't have gills. Okay. I do want to make one point, if I may, about this card. Something to kind of think about $2.98, 299 phenomenal cards, $300, obviously, the best of the year, certainly. This card is interesting because one thing that it has that the other ones don't is there are no women on this card. And I am not one of these people that can't find charm anywhere in the fight game or really wants to lean into the, you know, the Manosphere influence that already is a little bit

over the top in the sport. But I will say, you know, which one would you put on this car that's available if you had to be a matchmaker? And the answer is I'm not exactly sure that there would be one. Like, I'm not saying it's good that there's an absence. I'm saying it reflects that the women's game, Dakota Ditch of it notwithstanding over in PFL, it's missing a little something. And this card not featuring any part of the women's game and people not really being in any way missing anything about it from what I can tell anyway. I don't know. It kind of tells you what the women's game is at presently.

Yeah, that's definitely an interesting point. But Jed, I want to go back to you because we have Pantosia, Alex Pants, as you like to call him, headlining his second pay-per-view card of the year. and he wasn't the UFC's first choice in either scenario, but he lands in the spot once more, and he welcomes in, as you mentioned, the former Rise and Banimway champion, Kai Asakura, who is incredibly exciting,

but a lot of UFC fans, especially the newer ones, they have no idea who this man is, and he plans to introduce himself in a big way. And Pantosia has said he likes the fact that Asakura is getting a title shot right away, and he has put Asakura over from Jump Street. So while most people, Jed, have circled Shafkat Gary as the fight to watch,

it will get to that round two. How excited are you individually for the Pantosha Asakura Flyweight Championship main event? Tempered. I will say tempered because there is an outcome where this fight bangs, right? Because Pants is just always fun. Like he is just a super fun fighter. And Asakura is a very fun fighter too. If you've gone and watched Horizon at all in the past like five years,

he is usually putting on a performance that is worthwhile. There are a lot of questions that I have about it, which is why I am tempered. Like, I am dead certain that Shavkat versus Gary is going to be cool. I think Shavkot's going to kill him, but even if he doesn't, something cool and notable is going to happen. Like I said, Asakura hasn't made 125 since like 2017, I think. That's a long time. He's not a small fella. He's a pretty big boy.

And so, like, if he can make the weight, that's the first hurdle to clear. and then he would have like a pretty clear size advantage over Pantosha, but will he be diminished? Like to the best of my knowledge, I'm not 100% on this. This is it will be his first fight in a cage in like a lifetime. So like that's very different than fighting in the ring and rising. Like there are just a lot of structural things here that I personally would have liked him to just get an intro. How do you do let's see him make the weight, crush somebody, like just kill a can to to get in here and get a title shot.

But, you know, it is what it is. If everything goes well, this fight will probably be very cool because the competitors in it are very cool. But there's a world where it doesn't go great. And there's also kind of world where pants just runs him. Like, if Okicubo can take you down and sit on you a bunch, like I kind of think pants can too. So I'm just, I'm tempering my expectations here

because I think there are a lot of worlds where maybe this fight doesn't deliver, but in the world where it does deliver, you flyweight rocks. And so when high level flywrites are going at it, which these two dudes ostensibly are, ostensibly being, if he makes the weight, then this fight will be a pretty great finish

to the end of the pay-per-view schedule for 2024. Luke, would you describe your level of anticipation as tempered as well, or are you in a different mindset for it right now? I mean, I candidly, it's, I know it's a UFC title fight. It's in, I mean, I want to be clear about this. I'm at no way bashing the fight.

I love the fight, probably for all the same reasons that most of the folks watching and everyone here on this panel feels about as well. I share every similar opinion, but I actually have like a feeling very different, which is I don't have any expectation. I mean, yeah, of course, we can kind of game this out. It seems reasonable to conclude the archeletta fight, which, by the way, the one that Asakur is coming off of, a decent kind of look into what this fight might be,

There were times our Triletta was able to duck under and get the back. There were times in which he was able to threaten with takedowns, although Asakura able to get his feet back and under the ropes, you know, and making it hard to take down, he's not going to have that in the cage. And so to that point, he could get overwhelmed with the grappling. But at the same time, dude, Pantoja is reckless. Pantoja is wild. Kaka Sakora good at both intercepting pressure and then finding people on the retreat.

I mean, this could go a billion ways, but because Asakura is making his UFC debut, because a Japanese fighter has, Japanese fighters are 06 and 1 in trying to win UFC titles. I mean, yes, it could go so many different ways, but it's not like I'm hanging on any kind of expectation, right? This is, it feels almost like I'm looking at this whole card

less like a pay-per-view and more just like an absolutely outrageous fight night. And this feels like a bonus that we don't even really need on top of the Shavkat and Gary's show. And so with no expectation, and given all the permutations that are at least more likely than not, there's a million ways this could actually go pretty great without me having to get one kind of dialed inversion over the other one. I'm just waiting to see what happens,

and I'm going to enjoy the ride no matter what. It's good for Pantoja. It's good for Asakura, depending on obviously, you know, if they become out victorious, but I'm saying either way the UFC can play it, there's a lot to like. Give me what you got. One other thing I would bring up about this, Luke, is Asikura has been saying in interviews,

and he said it again yesterday, media day leading up to the fight, that he believes the UFC is secretly rooting for him to win. One, because of how exciting of a fighter he is. And two, it gives them a big reason to head back to Japan. And while Pantosia has been incredible and is probably the most underrated fighter in the UFC despite being a champion, Dana, I will never say this. And nobody else from an executive position will say this a lot. But do you think Asakura might be on to something here that the UFC is sort of secretly

low-key rooting for him to win so they can go back into that market? it? There's zero doubt in my mind. Not even a little bit. One billion percent. I mean, listen, here's the reality with Pantoja. He is everything you said he is, but he is also Brazilian. And Brazil's overall tradition of success, both historically and presently, makes him, yes, a jewel, but he makes him a jewel among many jewels, including ones that are bigger and shinier than him. So in that particular sense, it's nice what he's doing, but it doesn't change the game. Asikora winning, doesn't, I mean, we have to see what happens, but at least holds the potential for game change.

I mean, folks, I'm not saying Asakura winning a UFC title would make him equivalent to Nooya Inouye, but you're just looking at a moment in time when the Japanese public is embracing this outrageous, larger than life, in terms of his celebrity figure in Naoya Inouye on the boxing side, and there's no MMA equivalent. And for folks who may have been watching MMA starting in the last five years or so,

this is very hard to appreciate, but one of the historic powerhouses of the game is yes, the U.S., yes, Brazil. It was historically, not more recently, certainly, but it was historically Japan, not just in terms of the number of great fighters, but across many, many weight classes with some limits, obviously, at heavyweight, and then, you know, into the 205 range as well. But also on the women's side of the game, there were developed teams full-on rivalry within the country itself,

and then the product to the world was dynamic. and vast, and that has shrunk, but there's probably a lot to be had there in advanced economy over 100 million people, and it's just being waiting for the taking. Yeah, Asa Corr goes in there and stretches them. A lot is certainly possible and a lot potentially on the line. You agree with that, Jed, or is this hashtag fly weights and the UFC is just going to treat it like it always has? I think it's a little closer to that than it is that they really care. I think all things being equal and they didn't have to. to invest anything, right? They would probably pick Ossacora for the reasons Luke sort of outlined

younger, newer champion in a market that maybe they're interested in. I think that they are broadly interested in expansion everywhere, but like they could go back to Japan. There's nothing that is prohibiting them from doing it other than it is more difficult to do business there. And really, where they want to go is where people are going to pay the millions of dollars in site fees. So I think it's like, yeah, kind of. they would probably prefer it. I think really you could just know that to be true based on the circumstances of getting a title shot because really not another scenario where they would give them a title shot. They could have plucked anybody to fight Pantosia here.

But the same token, I don't think they will care too much if Asikora loses because Pantosha is a good champion. Like, I think it benefits them pretty greatly to have Pantosia continue to hold the belt because basically the way stars are built in this sport, either beat Connor McGregor in a fist fight or you just hold the title for a real long time. And so when their titles are changing hands over, it's really hard to kind of get fighters over. If Pantosia can just keep holding onto it, he'll grow. He'll never be a monster thing, like a monster star, but he can be reliable enough. And most importantly, he seems to be very easy to do business with. You are not hearing stories of Pantosia being a problematic champion for them or demanding things.

Yep, I will headline 301, happy to do it. Yep, 310's falling out. I'll headline, that's cool. I'll fight Kaia Sakura. I'll fight Steve Erseg, the number of 10 dude in the weight class. I don't give a shit, I'll do whatever. And they have a lot of love in their heart for people who just make their jobs easier. And so I think, like, you know, there's a lot of benefit to having him stick around.

So I think it's one of those. This is a no lose situation, not just that all situations for the UFC are no loses, but very specifically, I don't think they care. much they may favor oscarra slightly but like they can go to they're not going to japan with a pay-per-view anyway so like they can go to japan with kaiasakura versus tatsu or tiger in a fight night nobody would give a shit like sign me up if they want to do that that'd be awesome well it's an interesting fight the outcome will be interesting it'll give us some things to talk about but it's time to go to the people's main event this is the one everybody's talking about the point

for round one goes to i mean when you can sell, Kroen Gracie versus Bryce Mitchell, and provide visual aids, you get the point. Jed Michoud gets it, one and nothing. It's the stupidest best fight of the year. Like, this fight is all bozo,

and I could not be more here for it. Well, as we will be together, Jed, watching this fight. I'm sorry, sorry. So you get to watch our reactions live to it. Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Caro, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences behind the music we love.

Artists of all genres are welcome, and I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals. I guess that was the idea, was to try something personal and see what happened. And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and remember, so much happens before the chorus.

With Instacard, you get groceries that over-deliver. so you can overshare your preferences. Want russet potatoes with no brown spots? You got it. Want turnips that look light but feel heavy? Easy. Want honey crisp apples that are firm, green, and definitely not Macintosh like last year

when you lost the fall bakeoff to perfect Penelope Johnson. Okay, a bit TMI, but we're here for it. So download the app today and get zero delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacard. Groceries that over deliver. Service fees exclusions and terms apply. But let's get to the co-beta event.

We got Shofcott Rock Monoff, the 18 and O buzzsaw, 18 fights, 18 wins, 18 finishes. The man had a title shot in his, is right there. He's supposed to fight below Muhammad for the belt in the main event of this card and kind of going back to the depth of the card. If we still had this fight at the top of the bill with pants and Asakurab being the co-made event, holy shit. But Mohammed catches a nasty infection.

UFC switches things up. And Rachmanoff puts his title shot on the line here. And it's not against Kamar Usman. It's not against Colby Covington. it's against Ian Machado Gary, another undefeated guy in this division. I believe he's ranked number seven in the UFC's rankings. Jed, to quote the great Mick Foley,

the testicular fortitude on both of these guys, you just have to respect it because this is something we just don't see in our sport, let alone the UFC with so much at stake. Dude, it's awesome. Absolutely credit to both men, right? Like, Ian Machado Gary had a fight booked and that fight, like, maybe if he just beats Joaquin Buckley, he's kind of like right there is next in line anyway, given his popularity or maybe not popularity, notoriety. However, you kind of want to couch that.

What he's done, where he's at in his career, you could just, like, I'm going to headline against Buckley. I'll beat him. Frankly, Buckley is a less concerning matchup than old Shavcott is. And so the testicular fortitude, as you put it, to say, hey, screw it. Like, let's go bet is awesome. But, and maybe this is unfair. Maybe this is just me being a homer. I don't care.

Shavkaa Rakhmanov this week being like, yeah, I don't care. I'll fight whatever. It did not matter to me. When the U.S. He said that he's out, there was not, I'm going to wait. I could have waited. I knew I had a tautosh. I could have waited.

I'm happy to salute. my position as the number one contender against whoever they want to put in against me. It was dope as hell, especially Mike, because hold on, let me get on my soapbox, especially in a world where Jonathan Dwight Jones is doing the most transparent duck shit I've ever seen in my life who blatantly is refusing to fight the number one contender in favor of fighting an old retired firefighter. This dude who has so much to lose and very little to gain is just like, I don't give a shit.

I'm going to cook that son. Bring his ass to me in Vegas. It's good. Like, Shavkat is the man and Shavkat is not a chicken and thus Shavkat. It's not a goat yet. But he can be a goat because the science backs him up. John Jones, grow a pair and fight Tom Aspinall. Be like Shavkot.

Wow. Full circle moment. But Luke, let's go to you because your thoughts about what both men have signed up for. When Shafcott has a title shot, Gary had a main event fight book for next week in Tampa against Joachian Buckley, a much more winnable fight in most people's eyes. This is sort of like a throwback type of moment to the rise of the UFC in the Welterweight division. Is it not? It's pretty fucking, excuse me, it's pretty great. It's pretty great.

Let's sort of piece it up here. Sorry about that. Let's piece it up here. You can see what you want here, by the way. All right. I didn't know what kind of censorship rules we were working with. What I would say is, listen, Ian Gary is in a sense already won

because he accepted the Joaquin Buckley fight, as Jed indicated, and I agree, already a fine fight, like a great fight. If that was what it was going to happen, I'd be totally cool with that. But then circumstances changed, and he answered the bat phone, and he took on a much more difficult challenge along the way.

and in the process, here comes Colby Covington out of the darkness, all of a sudden being like, oh, I'm eligible to take a fight, and he fights Joaquin Buckley. And so with that, it laid bare what you kind of already knew if you read books above a fifth grade level, but more importantly, if you are just listed to what they were trying to tell you, Kobe Covington absolutely was avoiding a fight with Ian Gary. There is simply no question about it.

And it one billion percent could have taken it and just simply chose not to. In that sense, that's already done a bit of a rehab PR. Then you add on what we just already talked about, a short notice acceptance of Jason Vorhees coming through with the machete starting to hack swimmers and teens in the 1980s and 90s to death. He signs up for that one instead. Are you kidding me? What else can you ask of the guy?

This is the kind of moment when you need to know who are you? Who are you? And he answered the call. Now, how good of a fighter he is, we'll find out on Saturday. But you have to love that. Then on the other side, Rachmanov has a title shot, loses it and says, oh, no bother. We'll just take on whoever the next guy is. Oh, it's a former training partner, the one who I put to sleep on the mats of Kilcliffe.

Sign me up, ladies and gentlemen. We already had Thanksgiving. I don't mind having a second helping of delicious treats on UFC 310. And so how do you lose here? How do you lose here? If Gary wins, he rehabilitates his image in the most. unbelievable of ways. And by the way, just beating that guy is so validating by itself.

Then on the other side, if you're Rachmanoff, you could have sat on a title shot and you decided not to go beat up a former training partner. Holy fucking shit. Ice water in that guy's veins. This is what the fight game is. This is how fandom is built, ladies and gentlemen. Salute.

As you both so eloquently put it, the winner is getting a title shot against Bala Muhammad. There's no if sins or butts. And it's one of those scenarios, as you both laid out, Luke especially where both guys, you have a lot to lose, like, reality-wise, when it comes to getting a title shot short term, but both will end up getting respect and applause

no matter what happens for risking so much. But Luke, Shavkat got this title shot. A lot of us said, look, this guy might be the guy at 170. He's just wrecking people. Let's just throw him in there and see if he's the dude. And there are others who say, well, his best win is against Wonderboy. He hasn't gotten that signature win yet. at. And Shafcott even told me yesterday when I spoke with him that, yeah, I haven't fought in a year.

I want to fight. But he also admitted the reason he is taking this fight is to shut those people up. And for Gary, he's doing the UFC a solid taking this fight. And he's still young and up and coming and still trying to find himself in a lot of ways. A loss doesn't truly crush him all that much, but it stings. My question, Lucas, where does the loser go from here? So I do think it's worth pointing out the kind of interesting parallel that, they've arrived at this moment. They both had the Neil Magni fight. Then they both had the Jeff Neal fight. And then they both fought point karate fighters.

And so I want folks to acknowledge that like, I think Schofcott's going to win. You're asking about the loser. Just give me a moment here. I think there's an interesting symmetry and parallel to their careers where this kind of serves as a bit of an inflection point. So let's talk about the loser in this moment. If in fact, like one person goes in one direction from the inflection point. If it's Gary, you're like, well, there's nothing really at a,

risk here. Well, I do think, again, he's already won, and there is significant upside even in a loss. However, I would argue if he takes a beating, that could be potentially quite bad for him. He's already an outside fighter who is more defensively prone and I think more risk-averse than someone like Shafcott. You add on getting beaten up real badly, if that's something that happens. That could affect their development to a degree. That's a little bit speculative, but it's on the table. However, I think absent that, if he performs even remotely ably, or or is defensively responsible in any kind of way. I don't think he really gets set back at all.

He takes on maybe the winner or the loser of the Tampa main event, right? I mean, again, that's also kind of speculative, but there's probably some symmetry between those two bouts as well. If it's Shafka-Rakmanov, that's a little worse. Because, as you mentioned, undefeated and has nothing but finishes. And it's one of these guys, I'm telling you, if people walk into the cage wearing dead animals on their head, these motherfuckers mean business.

And he has looked like Mr. Business from the moment he showed up, the entire way through. I know he got teed up a little bit tuned up, excuse me, by Jeff Neal, but still got the job done in that one and then in a subsequent bout as well. But it would be a tremendous knock on his stock to have done this, to lose,

and then to also have lost a title shot on top of it. That would be a bit more of a reckoning. Still one, I think both could come back from, but it would be much more damaging for Rachmanov. Jed, what do you think? Where does, where do both guys go? like Gary's in a probably in a better spot if he loses if he gets run over might be a little bit different but shop cod is risking the biscuit here in a number of ways but he's still relatively young and in his

prime and he can make his way back but obviously with this division and the names that are up there and Camaro and Leon and all these guys and Colby etc could be a longer road for him so where does the loser go we know where the winner goes but what happens to either guy if they lose I don't think guy the guy loses too much, frankly. Like, they lose some. I would say, honestly, the biggest thing that a loser faces is that I will pretty confidently pick the winner to then become the champion. And so suddenly you have lost to the champion.

And that is, that's always a harder road to kind of climb back up. But outside of this, like, Shofcott's popular. If he loses, there will be, you know, some mouth breathers who are like, dur, hype train, derailed. He lost Ian Gare. Ian Gary sucks because he has like a healthy relationship with his spouse or bur. Like there will be people that say that shit because they're dumb. But that's fine.

Like ultimately Ian Gary is also an undefeated fighter who if you beat Shofkod's probably going to go beat B'all and become the champion. So like and both of them are popular enough or again with Gary popularity is not quite the right word but significant enough figures that they can then take a loss and turn it into okay, now I am fighting Kamar Usman or Leon Edwards or somebody. Like I doubt either in a position where they'll have to like really defend against Carlos protest or something. Like they won't have to fight that far back.

And a couple of other wins, they are still young enough. They are talented enough. They are certainly in Shavkat's case exciting enough that they can get right back in there. So this is one of those fights where the loser loses something, like loses something, certainly. I don't think it is catastrophic or that bad. If Shotkat gets out pointed by Ian Gary, especially given the circumstances, he was fighting, he was planning to fight Belal Mohammed, not at all the same fighter that Ian Gary is. And this sort of happens.

And, okay, he's still two wins away from getting right back in there. Like, okay, now it's time for Shavkat to fight Camaro or whatever. And he beats Camaro and then he fights Leon. Like, all right, well, run it back. So I don't think I'll lose too much. Jed, you are our gambling guy. Shafcott is a pretty big favorite here. Last I looked, he was around a minus 355

while to come back on Ian Garry is plus 280. Jed, how surprised would you be if Ian Gary pulled this off? And if he does, what does this look like? I've been pretty surprised, but I wouldn't be like, I can't believe this. I'm going to bet all of my money upon this happening. Like, Ian Garry is a good fighter.

People don't like him, and I don't think he's as good a fighter as Shafkot. He's certainly not the finisher that Shafat is. He is not as dangerous as Shavkat is, but super well-rounded. He has the ability to kind of control the distance here in a way that might give Shavkot some problems. And if he can really avoid touching Shavkot, like that's really the issue is when you start to touch Shavkot, bad things happen. Because we saw Jeff Neal have a lot of success against Shavkot by just being like, oh, if I can not clinch with you, that would be great. But as soon as you start holding me, bad things are happening.

And so if Gary can avoid that, like, that's to me how he wins this fight, you know, point kickboxing ugly. But the other truth of it is like there are parts of Shofcott's game. We just haven't seen because nobody has forced that issue on him. I don't think Gary's going to be the dude to force that issue on him either. But like, if you told me Gary just was on his bike the whole time and just kind of won, not the most exciting, but Shafcott was never able to get something done and be like, okay. Yeah, he and Gary's really good at fighting and you guys need to. accept that. How surprised

would this be for you, Luke, if he and Gary pulls this off? Like, he is very good, but this is a whole different can of worms than Joaquin Buckley was, and it is five rounds. He thinks he's going to go in there and drown Shafcott and later rounds

and pulled this off. Would you be surprised if this happens? And if so, how surprised would you be? I'd be surprised. I mean, you know, it's hard to be like shocked in the fight game, and I probably would not be that, but I'd be surprised.

Shofcott, Rachmanoff, again, MMA is crazy. Stranger things have happened. Shafkat Rokmanov should not lose this fight. You've got a guy in Ian Gary who is good defensively. But I mean, just ask yourself a real basic question. You're going to give Shavkat Rokmanov 25 minutes to get the job done against a guy who has to be on his bike to win.

That's a lot of time, man. That's a lot of time against a guy who is a dynamic and prodigious finisher. That's a lot of time against a guy who can win on the ground in the clinch at range. That's a lot of time for a guy who's got much better power, who has been much more tested in the trenches, of our guy who's going to move forward on him, for a guy who can win in multiple different phases of the game, for a guy who probably has some sense, you know, again, I'm sure the development from their time training has made them very, very different and harder to beat, respectively, but, you know, still has some familiarity with this game or

what he might prefer. It's just, it's just way too much time. Shafkat Rachmanov, at a bare minimum, should be able to get, you know, three, eight rounds out of five if it goes that long, and I'd be surprised if it does. I think it should probably go with inside the distance. Do I think there are punctuated moments or even like a round or two maybe for a time that Ian Gary might be able to frustrate, really, you know, corral Shafkaaqmanov. Yes, yes, I absolutely see him having some difficulty at times and having to work around it. But do I see a better fighter than Rachmanov at this stage based on what we know,

given what we've all seen, this should be Shafkat Rokmanov's fight to lose, and I suspect that it will be. Cannot wait for this fight. Cannot wait for UFC 310. It's going to be a good time. But let's move on. We're going to jump in the time machine for the next two rounds.

The point for round two goes to, Jed, you're in the correct direction. Luke Thomas. There we are. There we are. Throw my confetti, bitches. Fetti flies and, what better way to build a possible than talking about our special fighters?

Oh, do we have to? On the PFL World Championship, shall we? Yes, yes, we do, because it was a long, long, long, long event with the Mena fights, the championship fights. But all in all, it was a fun watch because while there is a gigantic risk of having 10, five-round championship fights on one card, If you get a bunch of big finishes and something to talk about, it kind of works out. And PFL did accomplish that with this card, Luke, Thomas.

And we'll get to the biggest story of the card in a moment. But this ended up being a pretty good day for the PFL, Luke, wasn't it? He can't say it. It depends what you mean. He can't say it. It depends what you mean. If the goal was to showcase, certainly for the main card, quality fighters in bouts where the stakes were palpable,

certainly to a degree, where important prizes were on the line, that they could run a quality shop in that sense. If that was the goal, then I certainly agree that they succeeded. I don't think there's really any question about that. PFL, let's say it stated outright, PFL has quality fighters and not just the Belator ones

that they inherited, although those are many in a whole different can of worms. But you get the idea. It's not just those guys. There are very, very good fighters within the PFL stable themselves. And these bouts in general both were, you know, match made is a little bit hard to say because it's a tournament final, obviously, but they were competitive bouts. They were interesting bouts.

And they were bouts that delivered excellent action with high-level operators. Yes, on that level, it's exceeded. On virtually any other level, I mean, I don't know what to say. The PFL is the first promotion I've ever seen that is not consumer-facing. They don't seem to care about building a fan base. Their customer is the kingdom of Saudi Arabia or any other place that will pay them any kind of money to visit or, you know, like any, their B2B. I mean, that's who they are. That's a B2B business.

They just happen to show their product to the world. And it makes it for a very disorienting thing to see, to go to Dichiva and they're, you know, working over Tilos Santos and the arena is empty. It's totally empty. And you might say, oh, well, okay, well, that's PFL. Yes, but, like, even for better be of Bivvall, it's not, like, completely full. It's much better. Obviously, a million times better. But, you know, it's not, it's still not, like, really a thing.

You just have to wonder how long that's going to last. You really have to wonder, like, what all this means and portends for its future. And, by the way, I'm told that, like, you know, there are aggressive reconsiderations of everything that they are doing internally where they will go. I have no, I have no way to know. But I at least know that there's a feeling about, like, you know, what are we doing? is it appropriate and should we continue? And like the answer is, yeah, you could build this bridge to nowhere for as long as

investors will give you money. But that definitely doesn't seem like it's going to last forever, nor is the kingdom's money going to last forever. Where are you taking this whole thing? And who the fuck are you? I can't even answer that question. Was it successful, Mike Heck, in answering the question, we are the PFL and this is what we're about.

On some level, yes, but not in a very, almost superficially declarative. And so like, I can understand. that when you watch this event, if you're a hardcore fan, did you get good MMA? You got good MMA. No question about it. But was it a success? Not really beyond just the notion that they have a stable of good fighters in competitive contests on occasion.

Yeah, I think the way I compare it was this was me seeing Napoleon dynamite in the theaters. Look, the trailer looked terrible. And I was like, yeah, this isn't going to be good. And then I watch it. I was like, oh, this, I laughed my freaking ass off. It was great. The expectations are not very high. So as long as all of these fights didn't go to decision, I think people would have been happy.

But Jed, I've been dying to ask you this question since we did the post fight show because you gave this a B or a B plus on the post show, all things considered, mostly for the main card. But I'm going to throw the Don Davis question at you, but rephrase it slightly because, well, you watch MMA fights. You have a night on the town. You got your 3 a.m. pizza. You go home to sponge the boot. away with the greasy yet oh so delicious pie you've just purchased and you want to watch

them fights will this pfl main card be an option for you on one of those nights to go back and relive no i'll never go back and be live but i so we're clear like there are only a handful of things i'll go back and relive events that i would go back like i go back and relive specific fights and like yeah it'd be pretty sick to watch robie luller fucking fist fight Carlos Condon again. I don't do that. Like I'm not never going to go back and do this. But I fundamentally disagree with Luke on this one.

I think this was a win. I do not walk this back from when we did our post show. Because like I get what Luke's saying. And in a very grand sense, Luke is correct. Like, what does this mean? Like in the cosmic sense, this is a doomed organization because no organization can thrive outside of the UFC because that's how the sport has been built. frankly. Like they are the winners and they're the only ones who can be the winners.

Well, that's a little fatalistic for me. And reasonably, like, no, the PFL is not going to take market share from the UFC or do any of the things that it is espousing that it will. Because as Luke points out, it's not really trying to do that. It's trying to sell the idea that it does that. So people will give them money and they can keep cashing them checks, baby. And I got no qualms with that because like that's fine a grift you know the whole world is full of grifter so why not grift in this fashion I guess what do I give a shit fighters are getting paid it's cool to me what the pfl is and this isn't an unqualified win right like there were a lot of issues but all the pfl can aspire to be is just quality like that is that they can aspire to present a good

time the bridge is to nowhere because there is no land like there is nowhere to go in this sport that is not the UFC. That is how monopoly works and the UFC got one, baby. So like, all you can do is ride this train as long as the wheels stay on it. And the wheels stay on longer if you continue to create meaningful good fights. Meaningful is a relative term, obviously. But when the fights are for a million dollars, they're meaningful. Right, right?

Maybe they're not meaningful towards the rankings in a lot of ways. For a million fucking dollars, they are meaningful fights. are stakes in those fights and the quality of competition was good. To me, the, the, the, the, the, the, FFL's entire business should just be, every card should be entertaining. Like, we just want to continue to produce a, a replicable level of entertainment. So when fans tune in, they know that what they are getting is a baseline of competency and quality.

And with this fight, their biggest of the year that wasn't the pay-per-view or whatever, ostensibly the marquee event of their year, I thought they delivered that, broadly speaking, The biggest issue is what we talked about on the post show. And I have to say this here because somebody got in my Twitter mentions and was like, you're stealing Luke Thomas takes and this is bullshit because I didn't steal this take. Luke and I, I guess, came to the same take independent of each other. But I've been saying for a long time, Mike, and you can back me up on this. PFL doing this shit in one day as dumb as hell and it should just be the weekend.

You do a Friday card and a Saturday card because nothing else is happening and you can't put six championships. And by six, I mean 10 because they did the minute of bullshit too. You can't put all that on one day. That's categorically insane and nonsense. You do a Friday card and a Saturday card. You treat it like WrestleMania. And then boom. Like then you've dominated the weekend when nobody else is there.

And there's nothing but a win here. Like, no, it's not building to anything. I hope they've learned some lessons. I do think the pacing was much better. certainly on the main card stuff. Like, they're slowly getting there. And neither of us really mentioned it. The biggest thing is that they got the result they wanted.

This year has functionally been the Dakota Ditch of a year, and she won. They did it. Like, they have built a star, whether they can capitalize on that, et cetera. I don't think they can. I guess we'll find out. But like, that's a win. They put on a good quality event and they got the outcomes they wanted that has to be consider to win.

Yo, let me, let me respond if I may. Let me respond if I may. I really, I would, I am going to challenge that a little bit. So here's, this is the way I'm going to look at it. Okay. Don Davis says lots of things. I love it with the, he sets the glasses, you know, Luke's coming. All right.

No, no, no. I didn't need that way. Wondi wrist roll. Luke glasses set. No, no. Don Davis says lots of things. And like any, promoter you kind of have to know what are we what are we talking about here right i mean it's there's

always going to be some truth to it and it's you have to kind of disentangle at all and it's difficult but one of the things he always says is you know it's a duopoly and i know that all of you know and that we know that that's not true it's not even remotely fucking true but you say oh well it's just rhetoric that they're measuring the company against but it's actually not the way in which they are managing their business is in some level trying to project that reality and acquiring Bellator, they wanted to say,

look, now look how many ranked guys we have under the Fight Matrix system, now we have a similar number of top 25 ranked, and we know it's still a slide of hand. But the point I'm trying to make is they're still arranging and their business and thinking about it under those terms. And I certainly recognize that up against the Death Star,

you know, there's just not much you can really do in the end. However, what I would say is, you're going to get a lot further being the brand of fun in MMA than you are being the crystal Pepsi to the Coca-Cola of the UFC where you're like you're also kind of a cola you're just not nearly as interesting a little bit weird and there's just not necessarily a like a noteworthy way to identify this like it's just there kind of floating in the ether also like you know we can get into different parts of it

The point I'm trying to make is simply that. Like, how I can't call this a win when you're arranging your business in this way. You're leaving patchy mix on the sidelines to pull off a card like this, which, yes, individually and then collectively is quality, but it makes no sense as a coherent vision in the larger structure of what you're doing in service to an ideal that cannot work nearly as well as a different brand that they simply don't want to be, at least it seems for now, associated with or at least pursuing. So we're clear.

I am not including the Bellator bullshit in this. It's indefensible the patchy mix of it all. I am not here to tell you that they have managed this well. I was strictly speaking this event. If you want to open the broader topic to what the fuck they are doing with the Bellator talent they acquired, buddy, that's a can of worms I am happy to dive into. I guess all I'm saying is,

I guess all I'm saying is people think that fights are that fandom is built on fights and it is. But it's also built on events. Like you definitely remember your favorite events from the past because sometimes obviously, you know, two or three of your favorite fights or many of your liked fights can be on it. I don't even know what the fuck that would be for PFL because their business doesn't allow them to create cards that help you get to that kind of a place. And so this is what I mean about like a showcase of a win. Yeah, they can put on quality fights and quality fighters. To no end. That's the problem.

What is their best event? Like, what's the, is the, their best event? Great question. Great question. Is their best event when Kayla lost to Larissa Bacheco? Is that the best one? Championship two years ago, I think. But this is what I mean.

It's not like, like, you know, strikes. Like that was monumental. Yeah, that was a big one. That was a big one. The rest of it was fine. And again, this event, this event was pretty good. Like, this one will be probably more memorable than many.

But like this, the fact. The fact that they have just fucking white noise all the time just kind of tells you like there's like, you got to have some identity. You got to have some fucking skin in this game, man. It's just missing. The identity is Big K Cola. Like you're saying they're Crystal Pepsi. No, they are the cheap cola. If you are trying to get the Coke, oh, that's five bucks a bottle.

Here's the big K and it's three and it's right next to me on ESPN Plus for free. I will do that one, please. And the thing is, even Figo has like the ICP association. You know what I mean? Like it's a crap cola, but at least has a fucking brand identity. This is just cola. You know what I mean? All right.

I'm glad you. So I want to pivot real quick to what you guys are just talking about because, Luke, I know you and B.C. talked about this on MK this week. And you laid out a few different things that you feel could help them long term. and Don Davis joined me on the now infamous town hall not too long ago. And he did lay out like a few interesting things they're discussing to at least try to make the season format a little bit more fun, doing callout rounds during the regular season. So it doesn't look as, hey, we're trying to set this fighter up for success over this other fighter and things of that nature. So baby steps, Luke, if Don or Peter Murray or some PFL exec calls you up right now and says, Luke, you've been very vocal about what we've been doing.

We respect it. We're trying to listen. I'm giving the opportunity to give us one thing to do heading into 2025 that you think will help us. And whatever you say, we're implementing on the spot. What are you telling them? One thing. Yeah. If you're, again, I would say get rid of the tournament, but let's imagine they even fault me on that.

They want to keep it. Put one super fight at the top of every attorney card. Right. Give me a, give me a reason to, oh, you're in San Antonio on a Tuesday. All right. Well, I mean, what is it the fucking, you know, the, the bridge. your weight semis like who gives a fuck oh patchy mix patchy mix is at the top of this car oh okay well now i have a reason to tune in other than figuring out who the fucking bridge or wait semi finalist is

from you know whoever the fuck knows like that like what is the there's no there's no there's no there but you can make these cards instantly more interesting with these people that you've got that are really talented patchy mix being one of them but leon dro ego spoke out and pit bull spoke out and obviously musace had a different issue but you know that you have names like that on Johnny Eblen. You don't have to wait to these grand moments where you're using everything at once, bleed it out a little bit. Give me a reason to tune in.

And I think that honestly, among many other things that they could do, would make an instant difference. Jed, you get that same phone call. What are you telling them? I like Luke's. Luke's is a pretty good idea. I would tell them broadly, and this is not one, so they couldn't do it. It's like, they need to, I am fine with the season.

They need to restructure it entirely the way they go about it. think is very bad, top to bottom. The thing is the thing that needs to happen. And I hope, and knock on wood, think that it is going to happen. And I believe, based on no inside information, pure speculation, that it is only happening because of some financial incentives and or obligations with the way that they acquired Bellator. Stop fucking around with the Bellator fighters.

Like, that would be the only thing. Don Davis, I'd clip this Casey, and we can send it. and tagged on in it. Stop fucking around with the Bellator fighters. You acquired Bellator for monopoly money. You paid no real money. You gave them value asset in your company, which is itself worth nothing. You paid monopoly dollars and you did it because it was an influx of legitimate talent to your

organization. And we on this very program and several other programs like it at the end of last year, we're like, I didn't see this coming. This is fucking awesome. PFL has like a brandish and they have a, wide distribution across ESPN Plus, which is the best thing that they could have to like for the target demographics.

And now the one thing, not the one thing, but the biggest issue that PFL had is most of the fighters just more very good. Like they're fine, but they're not good. Acquiring Bellator solved all of that. And this year,

you have lit that on fire for reasons that have not been made clear. Like, whatever your thoughts on Scott Coker is a promoter, and I tend to think that he has proven himself be a very good one. One of the things Scott Koch was insanely good at doing was engendering goodwill with fighters

because he just treated them honestly, like reasonably as human beings and whatever the fuck you're doing to get not just like one or two, but basically every big name fighter from Bellator is being like, what the shit is going on? You get guys like Gaggard Musassi who are like suing you

and it's like, this is let me the hell out. Why am I not? fighting. Chris Cyborg, who is, I guess, still the Bellator champion and kind of a PFL-ish champion now. I don't know. Has already had a super contingentous relationship with her. She's not the easiest person to deal with. I recognize that.

Patchy Mix. Patricio Pipple, all of the people, like the best fighters that you now hold access to, are all revolting because you are fucking the dog here. Stop that shit and fix it. Like, that is the number one thing you need to do. because they're the best thing you have going for you. So whatever the fuck's going on, don't undo that part of it. Wow.

Love the passion from both of you gentlemen. It was great. Well done. I did reach out to Don Davis as his bell at tour stuff was happening. And he said he'd be willing to speak in mid this month. So hopefully we can get that done sometime within the next week or so. I'm sure the people have lots of questions for him. And I like his answer about his favorite fight.

That was a fun one. Can I add, I may have actually changed my mind. Oh. I would add an addendum. Everything I said holds true, but then I would just sneak in a little PS. Stop having Don Davis be the face of your promotion. Don Davis is the business face of your promotion. He's the dude you want talking to Turkey, et cetera, to get the business deals over.

He should not be the guy. Like, I credit to him, if Don shows up and talks to you later this, month, do any of us think that'll go super well for him? I have doubts that he would give answers that are good. I would like someone to give an answer about the Bellator stuff, someone, because Lord, we have reached out to everybody and getting nothing. I don't know, Ray Cepho ostensibly has a job, make him be the forward face of it. But Don's going to come in here and is it like, Don, why are the Bellator fighters not doing

anything. Well, you know, we were so focused on making the championship, like, he's going to give a really bad answer. And so you should stop having Don give bad answers publicly. Yeah, honorable mention to let Dan Hardy do more because I think he's got good ideas and I think he'll get you a lot closer to a good place than anybody else will. Yeah. Yeah, I don't hate him being like the face of the company and doing more of like the anic role, I guess, more so, where he's, doing the pressers and all that stuff like no issue with that whatsoever so uh let's go to a more happier place in m ms we're going from saudi in the pfl world championships to los angeles california for january 18th the point for round three goes to it's going to jed by a no

oh it was so good stop the steal stop the steal Jesus. Luke, you know, once Luke figured out, once Luke figured out he could say whatever he wanted, he just, I mean, he went to a whole new level. Yeah, sorry about that. I am terrible. No, it was great. No, this is what we do.

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Let's talk UFC 311 because the amount of questions I've been getting, when is the UFC getting announced the UFC 311 main event, what's going to happen? We finally got our answer. Dana White goes on social media last night. Does the yelling Instagram video? And he says in the main event of UFC 311, January 18th, the Intuit Dome in Los Angeles, California. And I'm so, this caught me. And I reacted.

I was like, ooh, he actually said it. He said the number one ranked pound for pound fighter, the lightweight champion, Islam Makachap will defend against Armand Syruki and two. This fight is my everything. And then in the co-main event, Marauda Welles really defending the Bannamwe title against Umar, Naraga Madoff. It is happening, Jedmishu. Maybe it was the Thanksgiving article that put it over the top. I don't know.

But your thoughts on the two title fights just announced last night by Dana White to kick off the 2025 pay-per-view calendar year. So I didn't know this happened until this morning when I went on Timbatefighting.com website and was like, oh, shit, that's pretty cool. Like, those are, because we kind of knew that the Islam Armand fight was happening that had been rumored for 311 for some time. and then the Marab, you know, Umar fight, like that's, that's the special sauce that's happening. And there's nothing else to say about Islam Mormon too. Like that fight is no doubt about it. Easily the fight that needs to happen should happen is, is a great fight, a worthy rematch. Like, it's the number one, number two guys in the weight class.

And so, yep, like that fight's awesome. Two of the 15 best pound-for-pound fighters in the world. everything about that is everybody should be in favor of watching that. The Marab Umar fight is also all of those things. But I will just say this part about it because I found this part charming and stupid. I loved, if you go to Mifide.com website and read, I love Dana. I love the career rehabilitation Marab is now trying to do after recognizing that his public perception just critically tanked over the past two months.

Like, I have come on this program and several others and said, I'm not sure I've ever seen a dominant good champion, just do more to incinerate goodwill than Marab did in his first few months as champion. Like, just every PR misstep you could probably make, he did. And for Dana to be like, Marab came into my office and was like, hey, I'm tired of the Umar disrespect. I want to fight him as soon as possible. Like, I bet you did, buddy.

You could have just said that shit when they asked you about it after you won the belt. And they cut to Umar in the stands and we're like, hey, how do you think about him? And you're like, I love Dana. Me and Dana are going to be great, great friends. Umar who, Dana is my bestie. Like, just him wrecking, like, it took him months to figure out that all the shit he was doing was not working. And people were just dunking him to the core of the earth and now just trying to, to grab back the, the respect. of the fan base, be like, no, I called for this immediately because I'm so excited about fighting

him. That tickled me greatly as I read that this morning. And so, yeah, fight's going to be awesome. I'm not saying Marab can't win either. So we're very clear. Like, I'm going to pick Umar. It's a great fight. Marab is a great fighter. So if Marab wins, great, he can have his moment and he can, uh, you know, feel vindicated, et cetera. But the path to get here was far rockier than it needed to be. Luke we all knew what the main event was going to be it was the worst kept secret in the sport at the time and it was just a matter of when it would be announced but as Jets said I think the Marab Umar fight

for this card in particular took some people by surprise and as Jets said, Datawhite lays it out essentially Marab storms through the doors of UFC HQ and demands this fight because Umar is talking so much trash about him let's go. Were you surprised this was announced? Were you even more surprised that Dana explained it the way that he did considering,

well, he just hasn't had a lot of great things to say about Maraup lately. I, a little bit of surprise, but like, honestly, it's like, um,

you almost can't listen to a word, this is not true. What I'm about to say is not true. But you almost, almost can't listen to a word these fighters say about what they want to do. You just have to know what the kind of rules of the fight game are or to bear a minimum how the leverage plays in one hand. to the other that that wouldn't even with that that wouldn't necessarily make this fight happen

on this date but kind of it would at the same time and what i mean by that is like you know john jones being like well i really want to fight alex pareda and then dan is like yeah that's not fucking happening or you know even turkey being like yeah what about jones and and ganu and dan is like yeah it's not fucking happening like you know that's not happening the saudis don't have enough money to pay the ufc to give up that core advantage that they hold over the pfl which would be delegitimized if they did a kind of co-promotion with them. There's just not enough money in the world for them to give that up. So of course that's not going to happen.

And of course, Dana doesn't want to make the fight against John and the 205, like wreck their 205 guy as John walks out the door after already wrecking the ghost of Steve Miochich. Like, like, fuck no. Like obviously we're not going to do that.

So in like under those pretenses and realities, all of a sudden John taking the fight with Aspinall makes much more sense. Or Marab finally coming around to the idea that you have a, you have a date with Umar that you just cannot get out of. I understand some of Marab's reluctance that I do think we have to be a little bit sympathetic about. It was obvious he didn't want the fight. What I mean by that is, what I mean by that is, I don't think he's in any way like, oh, shit, he's going to beat my ass.

How am I going to sleep through the night? It's not one of those considerations. It is that he knows it's a tough fight. It's going to be difficult to win. And he had to work this hard to get the title. Now he makes money. This is the point where he makes money. and your first fight is the fucking air in the Nirmigamadov family.

Shit, man. Like your window to really make big cash was that big. It was that, it was nothing to it. Or, you know, again, I agree with Jed. Certainly still winnable for Marab. I would favor Umar. But like if you're if you're Marab, you have to be noodling this. You have to realize, holy shit, this is my, this is my time to make cash.

And it's going to be fucking fleeting after having to do all that work. I understand why he was at least. at a bare minimum trying to delay the fight. I do get that. Not that I agree with it, but I at least have, given that the system that these guys are ran, I kind of understand that on some level.

However, you can't beat the system fighting inside of it. It does not work. It will chew you up. And it is, to me, not just interesting that he took the fight, which is to agree to the point Bray's some surprise, but here we go.

His teammate taking a fight on quick turnaround in service of the UFC is the same thing he's doing, even though it tripped up to him in Al Jemaine Sterling doing it previously, like these echoes of history, this is what you have to listen for. This is what you have to pay attention to. It's not what they tell you. It's what you can hear echo through the moments of history as what actually shapes fights being made in fighter behavior.

Yeah, and I think the surprise for me was, like you said, Luke, this card. Like if they booked it in April or May, it wouldn't have been surprised. Like, there was no way this fight wasn't. happening. Like, Umar may have taken another fight in between. I know he's kind of reported to fight Song Yidong on the same card, but it didn't happen. But Marab's next fight was going to be against Umar. And the issue I've had with how Marab has handled all this is that he is not in a prize fighting division, so to speak. Like, he could fight Sean O'Malley and it would get attention because of Sean, but there's no clamor for that fight whatsoever, like absolutely none. And then

the Peyodor Jan call out, which I like Peter Jan. He's great. He looked fantastic against Davis and Figurato. That fight absolutely rocked. But you just annihilated this guy 18 months ago. So there's no interest in that fight either. To me, Luke, this was the biggest

fight for Marab. Was Umar. And if he wants to make all the big cash, you go in there and you beat a Nirmagamade off. You hand a Nirmie his first loss in your first title defense. Then the cash can come. Then you could start calling all the shots. I just think he put the cart before the horse with this whole

situation. Do you agree? No, no, I don't. I don't think that's right. I understand your, I understand your point. I understand your point in what you're trying to say, which is this is the real hurdle to clear. And then after that, it's a little bit more smooth sailing. And I think that is literally true, right? If he does do that, he will get that. But the money comes with title fights. And you have to have as many of those as you possibly can, assuming he's on paper viewpoints, which I would imagine that he would be. Once you get the title, that's the, that's, that's the real demarcation line. The real demarcation line is being able to have that as a, as a precondition upon any

fight that assigned. That's where the, all the money is. And if they're making you fight a Nirmigamehav in your first fucking title defense, you at least have to reckon with the fact that maybe you get bad judging. Maybe, maybe you actually should have won, but the judging fucking screws you. because you have this kind of a guy which is going to be nip and tuck and all these battles are going to be really, really tough. You know what I mean? You can get it done, but there's still so many things that could undermine it.

Whereas if you were able to get a yawn, if you were able to get an O'Malley again, these are much more winnable fights. And then at a bare minimum, you've got a defense under there. You've got like two, three, maybe four total fights you could string together in the course of your career where you can get some real money. I, I, I, you can never allow a guy who's a champion to just nakedly get out of the way of the fight that he has to take. so I understand him taking it but I also think you just look at who he had to go through and Sohudo and everybody else

up this line and then Joseo and everything else and then he gets to this point and it's like all right let's make some money but you got to beat Omar Nirmagamadov I'd be a little bit hey can we try the guy who can't wrestle back out here let's get that guy again I need to get some cash you know what I mean? Yeah the big thing for me

is like if he went out there and just beat the shit out of Sean O'Malley and finished him like in round two and we're like, oh my God, what what what what? What a Moraub did to Sean O'Malley. like, Nocha UFC was a UFC 3 or six. What an incredible event at the sphere. They did all this stuff and ended with Marab just icing Sean O'Malley. Like when you do that, then you have a little bit more, hey, I could call my shot.

I got momentum. That fight was poo poohed by most people. It was a great title win and good for him. Like I respect the fact that he went the road that he's traveled to get there. but even Dana showed up to the press conference is like, eh, not a barn burner, not a fight, I'll go back and rewatch essentially. So I ask you, Jed, like, January, this whole,

this just kind of surprised me with, and how would you sort of grade how Marab handled it? Are you with Luke on the situation that, yeah, I get it. You got to go and try to get the easier money, I guess, not saying that either of those fights would be easy for him, but he's beaten both of those guys. So what do you think? first off

O'Malley 1-35 so you know just don't forget that part of it second Luke's right and like I say this all the time because particularly

with the brand of takes I have when I use the term ducking John Jones is not afraid to fight Tom Aspinall that he's going to get his ass beat is a business decision is all very hard to fight Tom Aspinall is much easier to fight Alex Brera

that's it like Mara was not afraid that Umar's going to physically hurt him, he's afraid that he might not win that fight. And to Luke's point, I love that Luke was like, maybe he gets a bad decision because there's not a world where Marab finishes him because that's not what Marab does. Marab is not going to finish anybody. So it's just like maybe, maybe he doesn't win the decision this time.

Like, I get it. I understand what Marab is doing. But the thing is, you got to be better at doing it. Like that has always been my complaint. I get it. I'm not saying he's wrong for doing it. I am saying he is wrong for how he did it because it was so transparent of like I. It was transparent enough that it was very clear, but it wasn't just outright saying it,

which honestly would have been better. Like, yeah, man, I don't want to fight him because he's hard. I'd like to fight the easier guy. I please. I would like to make some money. Like I could at least respect that as opposed to him. lying and being like, Umar doesn't deserve it. Well, that's, that's just obviously not true. Like, why are we telling lies now? So I'm totally with Luke on that part of it, but it's just like,

hey, man, like, I'm, it is unfortunate that your career unfolded this way. Sometimes people get bad luck of the draws. You are lucky that you got one. You could be Joseph Benavides, who was the elite fighter for almost a full goddamn decade and never had a bell. helped the show for it because he just happened to compete at the same time somebody else did. It would be a lot cooler if you got to have the, I'm trying to think of somebody that's not the person I want to say because I don't want to open that can. If you got to have the John Jones career of, oh, I'm really good right at the time where a bunch of people with big names and marketability are super easy fights for me.

Sometimes it doesn't work that way. And it didn't from Rob. If he goes out and wins, like he still does. That's the thing. He still can go win. And it, maybe that's not fair, but he has to go do it. And if he does, then he has a little more opportunity to make that happen to. Okay, Peoria on gets rematch or Sean O'Malley. And he can make that cash.

But until then, it's just the luck of the draw. And you got the short straw here. Really short doing it at 311, I will say. I did not anticipate that quick of a turnaround. And that was kind of the piece of this puzzle that I was. the most curious about. Because I do think it's totally reasonable for Marab to be like, I just don't want to fight in three months after winning the belt.

I want to take a little more time. I'm happy to fight him. But when Marab was like, I want to fight him dead ass in the middle of Ramadan, it's like, yeah, that's just clearly not going to happen. And so it being this early is very, very interesting to me. I kind of would have thought this would have been pushed back a little bit. And I don't know how that's going to play out. Like, I don't know if that's harmful or hurtful to.

to frankly both fighters because it's a quick turnaround. Yeah, he took the and I respect it and probably would have done the same thing for a friend. Loyalty led him to this position right now because they wanted him to fight Aljo he wouldn't do it and I respect the hell out of it

and this is kind of where we're at right now and this is where the division is gone because it's a weird, loaded, crazy-ass division. So we're clear, you're absolutely right because John Jones once had an opportunity to be loyal. I was like, fuck that.

I'm fight Shogun and take the belt. Kick rocks for shot. And that worked out pretty well for him. So like, Marab could have done that and then didn't. And that's the price you pay. Like, like loyalty has a price.

And in Marab's case, it may have been one championship fight. Yeah. Look at this card. Islam Armin. Maraubu Mara. Jail's at Almeida, Sergei Spivak,

Yuri Jamal Hill Kevin Holland RDR Johnny Walker Boggs a lot of bozo on this card Pink Talon R in our cellos back to back fights

is the best Greg Doss of Diego Faheta That's three There's other fights in there as well But I mean those are all fucking bangers Luke Jesus This is a great way to start the year

Yeah I mean There's going to be a lot of fish dancing on this card You know what I mean Just a lot of dudes getting rocked And then trying to get their balance back And then you know craziness and ensuing

And I love this card. By the way, not even talking about the fact that it's going to be at the Intuit Dome. I don't want to get back into one of these things where it's like, oh, is it's going to be like the sphere where it's a cool blah, blah, blah, blah experience. But the Intuit Dome is supposed to be a really fun seating experience for the fans. It's supposed to be vendor friendly, even like getting to the bathroom friendly. They put like a gazillion extra bathrooms in there, so there's not long-ass lines. Like it should be like an addition to the card and the experience itself, kind of like a great night for everybody involved. So a lot to like on this one, a lot to like.

Kevin Wallen is my most anticipated fight of 2025 already. Like, that's it. I need to see how absolutely, like, that is going to be the bozo-iest fight you've ever seen. Dude, I feel like the Venn diagram of Jed's interest in MMA is like guys who definitely have some ability, but they only really come by from. They're really tired. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Just like, blah. Legitimately, one of my five favorite fights ever, and I've said, over and over and I will stand by it forever. Kimbo Dada is one of my favorite fights of all time. Bro. I've never enjoyed a fight more than watching that. Motherfucker, I covered that fight for that website with Sean El Shadi. Go back and watch the post fight show.

I put a microphone in his face. I was like, yo, my first question, what the fuck? You know what I mean? We didn't even know what to say. We didn't know what to them. It's one of the greatest fights I've ever seen. It's one of the greatest fights I've ever seen. I like this is it

I love bozos like bozos are the best part of this sport like sure high level of MAA is great or whatever like yeah Alex versus Islam one terrific like also give me just a couple of idiots

doing dumb shit I think it's it's unbelievable I cannot wait for RDR versus Kevin Holland it's gonna be amazing January 18th cannot come soon enough all right also to Luke's point super sucks for Marab

that is his one title defense is going to be in California, just really twisted the money knife on him as well. That's a great point as well. All right. The point for round four goes to Mr. Fishdance himself. Luke Thomas, two to two, nicely done. Good shit.

You fool! Landslide. Landslide. No longer to see it. You got baby nuts. I was at that, dude, I was at that press conference. And this is a true story. A Bellator, after he did that,

A Bellator rep came up to me and was like, Can you please ask a fucking question to one of these guys that is semi-normal? And I was like, yeah, just chill out. This is the best presser in the history of this sport. Within a minute and a half of it starting, Bet you my nuts are bigger than yours. It's just the best. It's the carnival side show. It's great.

Oh, my God. I interviewed Dada like the week of that fight. I asked him three total questions. the interview is 47 minutes. He just went and went and went. It just, it was, one of the things you just sit back with headphones on. The media day for that,

or maybe the open workouts or whatever they were, they were at the gym that was like Adrian Peterson's gym with, who was the tackle that we let go out to play for San Francisco? Jed, from the commanders. Trent Williams, Trent Williams. It was Trent Williams and the other guy's gym, which was one of the nicest gyms I've ever seen. and Dada didn't work out at all.

So that was fun. It was the best. RIP Kimbo. You Kimbo should be fighting Jake Paul in a just universe. Yeah. Yeah. Well, all said. All right.

Well, time for the knockout round. One minute apiece for these gentlemen to answer the question is, we'll be the same question. It didn't really know where to go. But I got something and we're just going to go with it. So Jed, you're the guy. You have the most recent victory on the program. You want to just go first and have some fun?

Sure. Let's cook. I'm too enthralled thinking about Dada Kimbo. Yes. This is nothing to do with that fight or Bellator or anything like that. But we talked about the future of the PFL heading into 2025. Let's talk about the UFC heading into 2025. My question is simple. What is the biggest question you have about the UFC heading into the last pay-per-view,

UFC Tampa into early 2025? And we'll throw a little bit of a curveball here, Jed. The low hanging fruit is off the table. The TV deal cannot be an answer. Go. Hold on. Oh, fuck. Go ahead.

Oh. I mean, go. Yeah, whatever. We get set up the time. What's your caveat, Luke? Sorry, sorry. Just to clarify the terms, can, when you say UFC, does that mean like TKO related UFC business?

It can be, yeah. As long as it's not the TV deal and it's UFC related in some form or fashion, I will accept. It's accepted. Okay, okay. All right. All right, Jed, now that you have the extra rule set, you got an extra few seconds. Go. I think I'm just going to punt this to Luke to win because the thing that I am the most interested in

is almost certainly not the thing that anybody watching this program is the most interested in or cares about. And I'm not even talking from the terms of I want to see some real silly shit happened because obviously there are many fights in that. I am legitimately super curious. And Luke alluded to this kind of earlier in the show. what the hell is going on with the women's divisions? Like, they are not outright pulling back from him

in the way that they were doing with the Flyweight division when they were actively trying to burn it to the ground and get rid of it. But, like, why did Wiley-Jang fight one time this year when they're clear contenders for her? Like, Flyweight took forever to settle this thing because they wanted to wait for Noche. Like, Bantamweight.

Kayla Harrison is ostensibly coming, but they're making her fight again instead of just shooting her right into. Like, what the hell is going on with the women's weight classes? And are they going to give us more clarity this year? Because they've been floundering a lot. It's a great point. It's a great point.

They got Kayla Harrison now. When is she going to fight again? When is she going to fight? That is a vegetable-ass answer. And no one is going to enjoy it. But it is truly the answer. I wish I knew the answer to. All right.

Well, Luke, Jed laid out his thoughts. I'm very curious to hear yours. One minute on the clock. go. I think a big one is going to be a two-parter, but they're related. One, how does the UFC manage the end of the careers of Connor McGregor and John Jones? We know for a fact, John's got one fight left, probably with even that's not a given. How are you going to manage that? Is that fight even going to get with Tom Aspin all over the finish line? We really don't know. That's a huge component of it. Then the Connor McGregor angle, which God only knows if there's even going to be one,

But again, how you manage that and what approach they're able to take and what they can even get from it, I think is going to be big. But it's actually more than that. I feel like it's like a generational turnover that's happening because you're going to get Hamzaa Chimae able to come over here. It's going to be a more favorable business climate in that particular sense. But I also think in certain respects, at a bare minimum, the big parts of the antitrust suit are going to go away, kind of saying goodbye to old business. All of these things are going to be a moment. You said no TV deal, but that's part of it as well. a new era of the UFC kind of really does start next year.

How are they going to manage it? We're going to find out. I love the point at the end there. Well done. You've done this a time or two. Yeah, those are all interesting. Yeah, it's going to be interesting year. I'm curious to see if they could just throw shit at the wall and people spend money on it because it doesn't matter what the main event of these fight night cards are. They break why are you interested? I can give you the answer. Yes. Yeah, we saw that. The UFC product is in many ways, like, again, this upcoming pay-per-view is phenomenal

whatever are in 3-3-11 anyway. But like in many ways, it's also like in certain respects kind of underperforming. But the UFC as an entity, particularly as a broadcast entity, is fucking ascendant right now. Like, yeah, they don't, they don't have to try super. I mean, dude, their PFL is like their number two. You know, they don't necessarily have to cross every T and dot every eye to get fans to watch, right? Dude, they broke three North American fight night gate records all time with Derek Lewis versus Rodrigo Nassimed.

Jared Canadir versus Nassadine Imabov. And then they went to Canada with Brandon Moreno versus Amir al-Bazi, non-Canadians and broke the record again. Like they can do no wrong right now. When I think of Brandon Moreno, I think of Edmonton. So you shut your mouth. Man, man bleeds the oil. Oilers. They did have, they do that La Bamba stick, though.

They do the, which is also not like purely Mexican, but it's at least, you know, in the Spanish language, which I guess is related. They do that bit. Similar. And for the Oilers or whatever. All right. Get your votes in. As soon as to see Casey's face, then we know that the votes have been tabulated.

We will have a preview show tomorrow. Now that I just remind myself, I need to figure out when we're doing that. Probably sometime after the official. way in. So I would say probably around 2 p.m. 3 p.m. Eastern-ish time around that neck of the woods. And then all the different coverage, Jose is in Las Vegas right now doing what Jose does. Just absolutely smashing it out there. So press conferences, ceremonial wayans, all that stuff will be on May fighting. And then Saturday, very big day, A-K's predictions. We got the watch party. We got all the post-fight interviews. We got the post-fight show. We got the post-fight press conference. We got the flat

Earth Bowl, which you're going to watch with us live, which I'm super, I wasn't as excited for this fight then as I am now, but here we go. If the UFC had any gumption, they would absolutely full idiocacy and say the winner of this fight is fighting for a cabinet position. Let's go. They get a spot in Doge. Dude, if Bryce wins, his anti-Elon rant is going to be both completely incoherent and awesome. Yeah.

That's basically the title of Bryce's book, incoherent and dope. Yeah, Casey putting our Slack channel yesterday after Bryce's scrum, he's like, what are the highlights? And I was like, seatbelts bad, farm food good. That was pretty much. I don't believe in seatbelts is the greatest line. It's so good. I don't believe it. Outstanding.

Casey is here, which means we have a winner. Who might that be? All right. Okay. The votes are in and we have a definitive winner. Today, your winner with 66% of the vote is, you fool, Luke Thomas. Yeah. Hey. Who knew? I get to his remember the times you covered Kimbo Dada. Yeah. Unbelievable. Luke Thomas gets it done. Two thirds of the viewership, votes. for good old Luke Thomas. Luke,

what would you like to say to the peeps? I know you get a live chat coming up. We'll give you 30 seconds to say whatever you want. Hey, come watch the live chat. We'll talk about all the stuff we talked here. I'll just rehash the same talking points. It'll be fucking awesome. That'll be at about 3 p.m. East Coast time.

And, of course, I'll have some coverage for you both during and after UFC 310. Come join me over on YouTube.com slash Luke Thomas. Thank you, boys for having me. I greatly appreciate it. Great program you got running here. Smart audience. Any final thoughts? Any more promotion for the Bryce Vigel, Chrome Gracie fight, perhaps?

Luke cheated. So admittedly, in the final round, was like, I know you said not to do this, I'm doing it anyway. I should never have talked about women's MBA. Obviously, our fan base is like, oh, boo, women's MMA, boo. And yeah, I'm pumped about 310. It's going to be very, very silly. And I'm super here for it.

So buckle up, kids. We're going to have a good time. We sure are. Casey, hit the music. We'll get on out of here. We appreciate you watching. As always, back next Thursday. I will be on location, out of command center, 4.0,

be in beautiful Tampa, Florida. I'll be boots on the ground for the final UFC, not pay, you have the event of the year, headline by Joaquin Buckley versus Colby Freakin Covington. It's all going down next week. So we'll have some fun. So BTL will be hosting live from my parents' den or whatever you want to call that room.

But thank you all very much. Back next week for food for Jed. I am Mike Hack. Shout out to Casey on the ones and two is the iconic voice special and takes you back back. This has been

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