MMA Fighting - BTL | Prochazka vs. Teixeira Classic, UFC 275 Wrap-Up, UFC Austin, Sterling vs. Dillashaw

Episode Date: June 16, 2022

The MMA world will be talking about the UFC 275 main event between Jiri Prochazka and Glover Teixeira for years to come. But just how great was the fight compared to some of the all-time memorable clashes in UFC history? This week on an all-new Between the Links, that question is discussed following Saturday’s card in Singapore. In addition, the panel plays a new game called, “Which one is more true?” to put a bow on the PPV card, look ahead to Saturday’s UFC Austin event headlined by Calvin Kattar vs. Josh Emmett and what could be at stake for both men, a reaction to the targeted bantamweight title fight between Aljamain Sterling and T.J. Dillashaw, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Shaun Al-Shatti and Alexander K. Lee. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Shaun Al-Shatti @ShaunAlShatti Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Thank you for joining us once again. A lot going on currently in the world

of mixed martial arts. A lot happened this past Saturday in the world of MMA, most notably at UFC 275. What an event that was in Singapore. We have a brand new

UFC light heavyweight champion after absolutely incredible 24 plus minute battle. Valentina Shofchenko remains the UFC Women's Flyweight champion, although she was tested

in a big way by Tyler Santos. We saw the emergence of a former champion, the reemergence, I mean, of a former world champion, and the retirement of another, saw some breakout performances, and a whole bunch more. The card was great. UFC back in the States this week in Austin, Texas. We're going to talk about all those things I just mentioned,

and much more with the esteemed panel, and they are super esteemed because we don't have Jed Bishu this week. Woo-hoo! First, just kidding. One of the great, Great, great feature writers in the sports world, not just an MMA, but in all of sports, the deputy editor for MMAfighting.com, my friend and yours, the great Shaheen Alshadhi. Welcome back, sir. Thank you for doing this. What's going on, Mike? I'm glad to be back. I appreciate you having me. The sun is shiny,

and it's a beautiful day outside. It's a wonderful week. I hope everyone out there's having a great time. Let's have some fun. That's right. And I am apparently in Dublin, which is fantastic, as we are also joined. by the Prince Positivity, who was happy to join a Jeddless panel. He might feel like I've strayed him or maybe set the wrong expectations, but let's see what the co-host of On to the next one I say about that. Mr. Alexander Kaylee. I was told, hello, my best friend,

I was told this would be a non-confrontational exhibition bout a la Floyd Mayweather, Asakura, or Floyd Mayweather and that guy he beat up in Abu Dhabi recently. And now I see a tweet go out. I see the word versus in there. I start to feel all sweaty. My anxiety's going up, but I'm getting it together. I mean, if this is going to, you know, listen,

I'm from people know I'm from the hood. You got to be ready to throw down at the mean streets of Markham. You got to be ready to throw down. They're ready to throw down Markham, Ontario. You got ready to throw down at any moment. So if it's got to be a fight on the record, it's fine. My record's taking enough hits as it is, you know. It's time to get, it's time to put a W up there.

Hey, I'm out here with a losing record as well now, so like, I didn't even know how that happened, but it happened apparently. Well, we're all going to win. And the message originally was, any interest in BTL, there's no Jed, some friendly competition. That's what it said, and you said, I'm in.

Friendly. Just turn an AK and us against each other. Friendly. Friendly. This show is not friendly by nature. Well, maybe we can change the show's course forever and ever. But let's start with some emotion.

the incredibly emotional, incredibly grit-filled main event of UFC 275 this past Saturday. Yuri Perashka versus Glover Tashara. What a fight. Yuri gets it done with a stunning late submission. The fight went the way absolutely nobody expected it to go. This was a one-way traffic prediction all around for either guy, depending on who you ask. We got the type of fight nobody expected, the type of specific result that no one unexpected, just a whole bunch of unexpected stuff here, Sean Lshaddy, because the expectations

from a stylistic perspective were so high, but it was more of a matter of, can Jerry keep it on the feet? Can you not keep it on the feet? In the end, both men did extremely well in the others universe. The swings were a plenty. Wasn't the most technical battle? Absolutely not. Was it a damn fight? You damn skippy it was. And we've had a few days to reflect on this battle, shot, all shoty. Was this the best result the UFC could ask for? Because we got a fight of the year contender. Both guys stock rose quite a bit.

Yuri got his finish in such a strange fashion. The hype behind him continues to rise. Now there's more options for him as the champion. Was this the best case scenario for the UFC? Or was it not that ideal in the long run? Best case scenario. That's an interesting question. And that's an interesting way to frame it, I guess.

because ultimately what we got out of it was a fight that was easily the frontrunner for fight of the year, right? A fight that I think is either the best light heavyweight title fight that we've ever gotten in the UFC or the second best, depending on where you want to put Jones Gustafsson won. I can understand Jones Gustafsson, you put in Jones Gustafsson one above it for significance. That feels like a more important fight just in terms of the history of the sport, but just in terms of pure fun, like that's probably the most fun title fight. that we have ever seen at 205 pounds. And you're right, the options that we now have

sort of sitting in front of us are all very fun. Like I have been saying for a bit, I've been banging the drum that I actually really enjoy this 205 pound division in its current iteration. We're kind of, I think, reaching the end point of this weird middle ground that we had in the post Jones post-DC era. It feels as if we're starting to find some level of footing,

but we're still not there yet. And it's really fun to the journey to get to that, point, right? Because I always love when you take a dominant champion who has been so dominant for so long out of a division and just kind of blow it up and see what happens and see who floats and who sinks. I always really love that dynamic. And we have been going through that over the last couple years with Jan and Glover and now Yerry. It feels like Yeri is obviously the youngest of all of them. He's obviously the most entertaining dude that any of us have ever seen in our lives. Like he's just genuine fun. Like if you have that guy as your champion, you can't hate on the

at all. Like, that's a great result for you regardless. The thing is, like, I think myself and a lot of people wonder, can Yeri actually keep this going, though, right? Because he fights so wild, he's so free. He's 28 seconds from losing that fight against the 42-year-old Glover-Teshirea on Saturday. Like, all of it, it was just tremendous theater. It has led to, as we sit now, you know, you could go the Gloverie match. You could go the giant Yon fight in Europe, which that would probably be such a cool scene spectacle, especially after seeing the parade that we greeted Yuri in the Czech Republic. Who saw that coming of just thousands and thousands of his countrymen out there celebrating

like this was the biggest milestone in the world? Like that is so cool to see every time we get a little glimpse into what this means for all these different countries. Because we just don't have that in the United States, right? But when you see Jan going back to Poland and being greeted like that or Yeri going back to the Czech Republic and being greeted like that, it really is so cool and it lets you know just how global this whole thing is. So I love where we're at. I love where this division's at. I think this belt could continue to get passed around like a hot potato over the next couple

title defenses before maybe it finds a true home. But that is really fun to me. And ultimately, I think this division is more fun now than it has been since, I would even say, the pre-Jones era, like the era of Chuck and Rampage and all those guys. Because the Jones era was fun, but it was a different kind of fun, right? There was a lot, you always went into the fights more or less knowing what was going to happen, more or less having a good understanding of what was going to happen. And John, as he progressively got farther and farther to the title run, more of reserved with his chances he was taking.

It was less entertaining fights overall, just as you go through it. Whereas this is so much fun. So I love it. I absolutely love where we're at right now. A.K., what do you think? Because we saw this fight going a bunch of different ways, not the way that it actually went. So was this actually the best case scenario the way it played out?

or did we take a little bit too much from both of these guys? No, I don't see how a fight like this can hurt either guy's reputation, can hurt the UFC, can hurt the division, can hurt the light heavyweight title. All of it, I think, was great, great, great, great stuff. Because, look, even if, like we said, we like to see dominant champions, you know, if you find the right dominant champion man, that can take a division to another level. It can make the company so much money.

It can grow the fan base. But if to share ahead, one, He's already talked about he's going to retire. So we weren't gaining a dominant title run coming off of this win anyway. Unless the Shera decided if he'd be Phrashka like, oh, man, I could go for another, I could go for another three years. I'm fed. This is amazing.

But, you know, we knew that wasn't going to happen. So this was absolutely the best case scenario. I still think there's big fights ahead for Glover in the future. Pohashka has a ton of star power. And the fact that there's a chance that this was like the first time a lot of. of a lot of people saw your prohashka he's only had two ufc fights you know we know we know there's a large segment of the fan base that does not watch anything except for the ufc they easily could have missed those first two fights so if this was their first time they're going like oh

i want to see what this what the big deal is with this prohashka guy they got the total package they got all the excitement they got the charisma they got the they got the highs they got the lows they saw the striking they saw his grappling his submission skill so you it was it was really you his resilience. It was really definitely a best case scenario for him. The only guy who was not, you know, a best case scenario for, of course, is Glover to Sharon. Even then, he can now say he is one half of arguably the greatest fight that we have ever seen. I mean, that is, that is something that winner lose, no one can take away from you. It's why I think we still, we still think so highly of like Roy McDonald. It's why we do podcasts or guys dedicate podcasts to guys like Carlos Condit.

it's why guys like van der Leis Silva always may freshen our minds, no matter what their, whatever their record looks like when their career is over. Being part of a great fight, of an all-time great fight, I don't want to say it's equal to having,

you know, won a championship and defended it a couple of times. But man, it is up there. It is up there. And also for it to cap off what was an event that a lot of us in the media and just people in general were kind of like, you know,

looking at it as somewhat of a, it was just like a three-fight card. It really captured. off was that what ended up having a strong undercard, a bunch of memorable moments. A lot of other things we could have been talking about. You know, Jeanne's K.O. could have been the biggest story. The Shevchenko-Santo's controversy. I think the main event ended up being the most talked-about thing.

And that's a great thing for the UFC. That's what you always want. That's the goal. That's why you make a fight the main event. So kudos to both men because I think they pulled it off and lived up to the billing and beyond. Now, the big question. and we'll talk aftermath and the future and a whole bunch of these other storylines that you mentioned in round two.

But we had some time to reflect, AK. You said the word arguably. So now we're getting off the fence here because now that we've had this time to think back on this one, we've probably thought about other fights that's being compared to. Where does this fight rank now? Is this one of the great fights of all time? Is it one of the great title fights? or as I've actually seen some people say,

is this a little overrated because it wasn't that technical? Is this not even the best fight of 2022 so far, A.K., where are we at? I love making lists. I love ranking things. I keep a lot of sort of internal, you know, just ranking things sit around on my computer. So it's fun.

It is fun to say, you know, try to make some sort of objective statement about what is and isn't the best. But I don't want to get off the fence, Mike. What is the fun? I want to... It's actually kind of fun being on the fence in MMA when you're just ranking things

because, listen, this is sports in general, especially today. It's a what have you done for me lately business. And MMA is arguably the most, the most what have you done for me lately of all the sports out there today.

So look, if someone saw this fight and their feeling coming out of, is this the greatest fight they've ever seen? And a week later, they still feel the same way. in a month from now, they still feel the same way. I'm not going to dispute it. It doesn't take away from like the other amazing fights we've seen. It also depends what you're looking for.

This wasn't the most technical fight. This did look sloppy at times. This had moments of frustration, you know, a glover to share, jump in for that gilly. Roshka, every time he put himself in position to get tripped or taken down or just pushed over, it was frustrating. Regardless of who you were rooting for, there was moments where you were like, why is this guy doing this?

Why is a guy doing this? But I think because it connected on such a, like on that level, with people who were so involved in the, as indirectly, anyway, sorry, with the decision-making, with everything that happened. I mean, again, you can isolate any two, three-minute section of this fight and there's like five, six, seven things you could, you could want to cheer and want to scream about. That's amazing. That's really hard to do.

Like, it's hard to manufacture a matchup that gives you that, much less a UFC championship matchup. Again, we've had some great fights and they're great for different reasons. This one, I would hope the sloppiness adds to it. it. You know, in professional wrestling, you know, which I'm sure everyone here, everyone on all of our viewers and listeners love, there's, you know, sometimes you'll botch, sometimes people will mess up moves, you know, spoil it for everyone. Pro wrestling is predetermined, you know, they're not actually fighting. But there's sequences where people will mess up the moves and people will call that

a botch and then say, oh, it ruined the match. For me, when I see a botch, when I see something kind of sloppy, it actually kind of adds to the realism. It actually makes it seem more real, especially if the action can sort of be recovered and sort of carry on from there in a meaningful way. And that's, I think, what the best wrestlers do and also what the best fighters do is like, yeah, they're going to make mistakes. It's a fight.

They're getting punched in the head a lot. They're going to make crazy tactical errors. Can they fight through it? Can they keep going? Can they get back to their strength? Or can they fight from a position of weakness? That's so awesome. And we saw so much of that in the UFC 275 minute events.

So I was just like, I was nonstop thrilled and for me, the mistakes, if that's what you want to call them, are a feature and not a bug. My favorite fight of all time is probably a tie, Robbie Lawler, Roy McDonnell, too, Robby-Law-Clauil-Clau, but, I mean, I would put this up there with either of them. I would gladly watch, if I could only watch one fight for the rest of my life, and you told me that this was it, more than happy, satisfied. John, what say you?

How high are you willing to rank this fight? We talked about it on Saturday. we had some bold picks. Some people saying it was the greatest fight ever, greatest title fight of all time. One person saying that. One person saying that. You were not that person.

You were the slow your role, just a tad guy. So where are we at now after four days of reflection? I think it's certainly up there, right? Because a lot of what AK said is right on the money, whereas you look at the great fights of all time, a lot of them are split up into almost just chapters, right? where it's maybe round one is one chapter, round two is another chapter. And each chapter is vastly different from the other.

You get vacillations with the momentum. Momentum goes up. Momentum goes down. Somebody's up. Somebody's down. That type of thing. And that creates really that wild ride over 15 or 25 minutes. The fun one about this, though, on Saturday was each individual round can almost be

broken up into like mini chapters, right? Because you had, Yeri was on top or in control for like two minutes. Then it would switch. And then Glover would be in control. And then all of a sudden, Yeri's almost done. that almost some Glover is almost done. Like it was just the back and forth nature of it wasn't even confined to rounds is just so much as 20 minute, 20 second sequences, one minute sequences.

And that was almost exhausting by the end, right? Like it was just once we reached that finish line of Yuri just gutting out this incredible submission that none of us saw coming with 28 seconds left to steal this away, like everyone's adrenaline was 100 out of 100 at that point. So it was easy in the moment to sort of let those things run wild. I wouldn't say that it's the greatest fight of all time. I wouldn't say it's really probably not even in the top five. But it's definitely like in the conversation just to be in there of the best fights of all time,

the most fun fights of all time. I agree with AK in regards to, I don't really care if it's the most technical fight or not. Like you give me what you gave me on Saturday. I'll take that every weekend and I'll be thrilled with it, right? Because that was just fun. I've said the word fun a couple times, but that's really what that was. As a viewing experience, it was just complete and total fun to ride that ride all the way through. So I would say maybe it's on the short list of the best fights of all time,

definitely on the short list of the best fights in recent memory. But it's certainly like I have Robbie Lawler, several of his fights, the Condit fight and the McDonald's fight I would put above it. There are probably others I would put above it as well if I really sat down and thought, think about it. But it's up there, man. Like you can't fault it at all. And I would be stunned if we're not talking about this fight come December once we're

doing award season. 100%. Like where you said. earlier. So much came out of this card and we're going to talk about a lot of it right now. More on the aftermath of 275. But the point for round one goes to Sean O'Shti. One to nothing. Look at A.K.'s face. I love it. Friendly competition. Look at the look. I love you. Never seen you look like that, A.K. Yeah. We're all, we're all winners. We're all winners. But Black Friday is here at IKEA, and the clock is taking on savings you won't want to miss.

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These points, like Sean said about the to share a Phrashka fight, it's fun. They're fun. They're turning points, if you will. They're forks in the road because you all, our lovely viewing audience, you will decide the winner at the end of this thing. A poll will pop up. Then you will vote. And whoever has the highest percentage wins. So we're going to play a new game on BTL, which I'm very excited about.

Anytime we can incorporate game show type of themes, that's what we're going to do right now. We're going to play a game called which one is more. more true. Yes, indeed. And how this works is I will present a couple of different options about a UFC 275 storyline. And you AK and you Sean have to decide which option is the most true or most likely to happen if you had to predict. So, AK, we'll begin with you. We had two title fights. Both have an argument that an immediate rematch should happen. So we'll start here, AK, which statement is more true? Glover Tashara will get an immediate rematch. Tyler Santos' next fight will be against Valentina Shepchenko

or whoever is the champion when she set to return. Both will get title shots slats rematches in their next fight or option D, none of them will get that opportunity in their next fight. I'm glad you gave us the last option. Because the way you laid it out, Mike, I was scared. I was scared I was going to have to pick one or the other. And maybe I still should. You know, it's funny.

We do a, Mike, if only you and I did like a matchmaking show, that where I could have already like sort of put some thought into this. It's it's really starting to look like. I'll go, you know what, Valentina was, let's let's go Valentina. Valentina and Talas Santos will have an immediate rematch. If only because I'll get this one out of the way first and then I'll say why not the Glover Glover rematch. If only because the, you know, the Pena Nunez rematch is a bit away.

If Nunez wins, they'll probably going to set up. but trilogy so i don't know if that eliminates you know sherschenko's chances of finally going up and getting that you know going for that second title it it feels like that's still not quite in her control and dana white when he was talking about that possibility everyone said if he if she beat everyone said that he said if she beat tyla santo she could do whatever she wanted i believe his exact wording was more like if he runs if she runs through santo's like she really kind of just like because he was bigging up santos and the lead up to the fight you know promoting the rare moment of promotion and

he said that if Chef Chico runs through her, then, like, clearly she can do whatever she wants. That didn't happen. I think that keeps the Santos rematch very much alive. I've written about it. We've talked about on other shows, but how, like, I don't think the fight is anything close to a robbery. It is controversial, though. It is controversial by the nature of people are talking about it.

I always like people say, is something controversial? And there's, like, a million stories and so tweets about it, it's like, yes, that is the definition of controversial. It means there's a conversation happening. But it was not a robbery that said there's certainly enough people who want to see it again. And it was a competitive fight. That is no question. Even if you scored it, even if you did it like Clemens Werner, who did nothing wrong, by the way, did nothing wrong with his scoring.

Even if you scored it 49, 46 Valentina, I don't think there's anyone in their right mind who would say Valentina dominated Talas Santos. You can say she had a somewhat convincing win, but was not a dominant win and especially relative to what we're used to seeing from her. There, flyweight is just not at the stage yet where there is an obvious contender. Yes, everyone's talking about Misha Tate. We have said that we're not confident she even gets past Lauren Murphy. If she does, certainly that fight is possible. But again, that's, that's something. Even if Misha Tate wins, who knows, who knows what could happen, you know, she might need more time to recover, things like that.

Tyler Sandus, we know is ready. She is ready to fight again. She's got to get surgery on the broken orbital. But, again, barring any complications, should be ready to compete, I don't know, sooner rather than later. not a doctor. But there's interest there. There's more interest, I think, than there has been in any Valentina Strachinko matchup to see her fight Talasanto.

So we talked about, hey, best case scenarios with the Tashira Prakashka fight. I mean, this was the best case scenario, kind of, Pritchfchenko, to people get, to get invested in her, to see those cracks in that aura of invincibility and now suddenly be compelled by a challenger that nobody had zero buzz factor ahead of the fight, like, people respected her, but weren't, like, super excited about Talas Santos getting that title shot. So, yeah. So it's a great option there.

And as for it to share on Pajchka, I think Pajchka and Lachovits have been saying all the right things about let's make this fight happen in Europe. Let's get this huge. Let's sell out some arena, some stadium somewhere. Blahovic was planting the seeds right after the rocket fight. You know, he's being respectful to Glover, but saying, hey, if Uri wins, let's go to Poland, we'll sell up 60,000 seats. It doesn't, if you're the U.S.C., I mean, listen, you're aware of this being a possibility. You are licking your chops at the thought of this huge European job. dream fight.

So I think they would rather, if the U.C. had a choice, they would rather do the Blockovitz fight than do the Glover rematch necessarily, especially with knowing that Glover will retire, because then he beats Erie and then what do we do? You do the trilogy fight, maybe, or Glover retires right there and the belt ends up getting vacated. So it's just not as appealing a prospect. So I'll go with one of them. I do think we see Shvchenko Santos to immediately, not the UFC 205 main event.

Sean to share immediate rematch Santos immediate rematch both get it none get it where are you going with? I tend to if you would have asked me on fight nine I would have leaned towards both should get it and now that we've gotten a little bit of space removed from it I think I lean towards D none getting it but I will say if one person should get it

it should probably be Glover to share it right because dude is 42 years old we know we already know the story with him how far he's come and all he's over come. She's probably going to have one or two more fights. If you're going to, if you're going to capitalize on this window and really capitalize on, again, one of the greatest fights that we've ever seen, squeeze whatever you got left out of the sky. Now would be the time rather than making him try to fight his way back to this spot. Obviously, Glover and Jiri, when they get together,

it makes magic, the styles that they have combined with each other are phenomenal to watch. I would love to watch that back. Talia Santos is young. She's going to have time. But also there's an element to that AK sort of glossed over. that I think is maybe a little more important than we're mentioning, which is she has to have her face put back together. Like, that's going to take a little bit. It's not something that we can run back anytime soon. Brub some dirt on it. Rub some dirt on it. That was a pretty bad injury. That's a flesh wound. I have the utmost confidence that Talas Santos is going to be in a UFC title fight again, probably sooner rather than later, but maybe let's give her a little bit of time

to heal her body before we start throwing her back into fights it's going to be a bit for her and we've already seen it from balantina she seems to have all eyes turned to misha tate and i think we can all understand why right that's a big fight that's probably the biggest fight for her in that division right now it's also probably an easier fight for her in that division considering where misha tate is in her career and the style that she fights with than a lot of other fighters in that division if we're all being honest with each other i don't know if misha will get past lorn murphy a lot of people seem to just sort of be putting her in that spot already. Lauren Murphy's a very tough fighter who's a tough stylistic challenge for Misha.

That's going to be a competitive fight. But either way, I could see Valentin even trying to move up and fight for the 135 pound title, right? Like this is something that finally feels to have a little bit of momentum within the UFC and Dana White has always been resistant to this. But now he's finally into the idea a little bit. I think that Tyler Santos time will come, but it's probably to take a bit. Glover Tashara, I would like to see this get the shot because again, I just want to run this back. it was such incredible theater. But ultimately, I bet the UFC will probably go a different direction with that as well,

whether it's Jan Bakovets or, you know, Magelman Ankhaliev, depending on how this upcoming fight goes. So I tend to side with D. Neither of them are going to get the rematch. But if you gave me my druthers and I could give it to one, I would give it to Glover. I feel like Magelman Ankelaev was maybe the biggest loser on the night without even having to fight. Because I feel like Janbovich, no matter what happens, like the UFC's dollar signs,

and they know Jan in Europe is a bigger fight than anything. I think a lie of pretty much anywhere else. Unless they do it in Czech Republic somehow and just give Yuri a hometown fight, then it doesn't matter who he fights. It's just going to be massive either way. But let's move on to another giant storyline from these top three fights. Shana Lshadis Zhang Wei Li viciously knocks out and retires the legend in Ioanni and Jacek. And she essentially goes out and says, hey, Carla Sparza, Dana said up next.

Abu Dhabi, October, let's do the damn thing. And Carla has since said something of the. effective. Zhang, I'm the champion of the world. I'm not in your timeline. You're on mine. So, Sean, what's more likely true? Option one, mine as well, Mark, Carla Sparza, Zhang Wei Li in October in Abu Dhabi on your calendars right now. Option two, Esparla Wei Li after October. Or option three, Isparza versus an interim champion in 2023. No, I mean, I'm sure that the third option is not going to happen. I'm sure that, I'm sure that, you know, it's going to be at the end of the year. I don't know the exact timing, but

regardless, like, Carla's going to go into that fight as the biggest betting underdog, maybe of a UFC champion ever. I would love to know right now, I don't have it in front of me, but what Nico Montenio was when she was booked against Valentina Shavchenko, I think those odds were probably 10 to 1, 12 to 1, something like that, maybe 8 to 1. I wonder if Carla will get that high. I would be stunned if it's anything less than 6 to 1 with the way things are trending right now, which to me is actually really fun, because that's just keeping a the whole spirit with this whole Carla as far as a run that we've been seeing, right? Like she has been the perpetual underdog through all of this.

Even as she is sitting there as the champion now, there are people poking holes in this run and saying, you know, she should have lost two or three or four of these different fights with all these weird decisions, split decisions and majority decisions. So I don't know the exact timing of this, but as much as I personally wanted to see the Yanna story continue, I wanted to see, you know, Yana, Carla, too. That would just be such an incredible cemetery, the way that loops back. around and the way stuff just comes back around like that. It's unfortunate we didn't get it, but I'm sure we're going to see Carla versus Zhang by the end of the year, for sure.

And by the way, before the fight was off, Valentina Shubchenko was as high as a minus 1430. 14 to 1. All right. As high as that. And let me just say this, A.K., because I don't want people to take this the wrong way. The last option is not me coming out in saying, like, Carla is scared to fight Zhang Wei Li. Not saying that at all. What I'm saying is we are looking at this from a UFC perspective through their magnifying glass. And if the UFC goes out and says, hey, Carla, we want you to fight John Wei Lee October in Abu Dhabi. And Carl's like, nah, don't feel like doing it. We've seen precedence that the UFC will just be like, eh, we'll just throw Zhang into an interim title fight against somebody else on that same card. Carla gets the winner, unify the titles,

however they want to do it? So do you think we go on Wei Lee's timeline? Do we go on Carla's timeline? or does the UFC just said, screw it, Zhang's going to get an interim title fight on the date she wants to fight and then we'll make it a bigger fight for Carla, unify the belts. How does this work?

One, two, or three. Somehow, somehow, we may, we may get as far as the, like, in the talk stages for Carla Sparza and Zhang Wei Lee, but I just really get that feeling it's not going to happen before the end of the year. I am, I would be really, really surprised at it.

Again, as you said, not because we're saying Carla's scared, But things happen in the fight game to sort of prolong title runs sometimes to give fighters more time to, you know, properly prepare for a dangerous matchup. We've seen this happen countless times. It's not necessarily one person's fault or the other. It just, it happens. And I feel like some strangeness will occur around any sort of potential Carlos Sparza, Zhang Wei-le fight, and we won't see it for the end of the year. And we will see an interim title fight.

Yes, because, especially now, so we just lost a big flyweight boat. between, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not flying, but I'm excuse me, I was, I was just thinking about Andraj and, and, and, so, but, but I, you know, I'll stick with that. I'll stick with that. I think there's a possibility, even though Andrzej has been, has been, has been, you know, flirting at 125. I think there's a possibility if she takes out, if she takes out, if she takes out Menon-Fior-O, that the UFC will just throw her right back in the mix at 115. I know that sounds strange, but she just picked up that huge win over La Moche. I mean, super impressive win over a rising contender.

She has just been this fighter that can fight in two divisions whenever she wants. I think a lot of people have wanted to see her run it back with Zhang, too. Amazing win by Zhang in that first fight. But boy, it was so short and under such weird circumstances. And a lot of people really just didn't see it live because it was on, you know, Asia time. It wasn't in North American time that people are used to. So I think they find a way to make that fight. happen because if Andrage just smokes Firo, I don't think they'll run back her and

Valentina anytime soon. I don't think she's that high on the, and she should be, but I don't think she's at the front of the flyweight contenders line. Straw weight's another story. Strathwaite is another story. So it would be weird to see here, like take out a flyweight and get a strawweight fight. But again, if we're just setting up an interim title bout with Zhang Wei and a rematch, I think it's be very possible. Like I said, I like both divisions, the flyweight. I like straw weight. I'm always been a big fan of both. They're just kind of in a weird, funky position now with what happened with Carla and Rose Namajunus. And I think it's going to take, it's going to take at least a year, unfortunately, before

this gets sorted. And even then, that might be optimistic. That might be optimistic. We might still be in a bit of a weird, funky place a year for now. But I will say we will have an undisputed champion by this time next year, but it will be resolved with someone bringing an interim title into a fight with Carla early 2023. Interesting. Love it.

Love it. last one i k will start with you well-to-weight division two guys made some great statements opened up a lot of eyes jack della madelena jake matalena jake matthews what's the most correct statement here i k one jake matthews will headline a ufc event first two jdm headlines a ufc event first three neither headlines but that's nothing to shake a stick at because they'll both have very fun and solid careers oh the last option is neither ever headlines correct Oh, I don't know. No, I have to pick one of them. I do think, of course, you know, you have the, being, you know, from another region with a rabid and MMA fan base is always helpful.

And, you know, once they can start hopefully making regular trips to Australia again, you know, there'll be more fight cards there. And one of these guys is going to be at that level where they should be in the main event. My first instinct, as soon as you raise the question was Jake Matthews, because I was so impressed by his win over Fialio. I was just blown away. People know I was doubting, I was doubting Jake Matthews before that fight. Like, great, super skilled fighter plus athlete, but a guy, like, I wanted to see him, like, really bring out that, again, that definition of fighter, that raw definition of fighter,

that finisher. And sure enough, it was just a masterful striking performance against the guy who's a deadly striker. So, I mean, and he's been with the UFC for. a long time. He's peaking. He's only, what, 27, 28? And he's a very familiar face with them. He's been around since he was a teenager. So I want to say Jake Matthews, but I think JDM, Jack Della Madelena, is just a hotter name right now. And that goes a long way. And I could see him headlining a fight night event, if they're able to pull one off in Australia, within like, legitimately within his next two fights. Probably not his next fight, his next fight.

You just want to get him somewhere. You want to keep him busy. You want to give him another name. after that, you know, I'm a big three fights in the UFC let's see what we have with this guy rule. So let me see one more big performance from Delamadena. And I certainly think he can get it because he has a very exciting style, very memorable name. That goes a long way.

It's fun to say. It's a musical name, as I like to call it. Jack Delamadelana. So that to me looks like someone who will headline eventually. Jake Matthews is someone, as much as I like him, I almost feel like they can also kind of take him for granted he's like a utility guy, right? He's a guy, I don't know if they see him as a contender.

I don't know if they see him as a star. They'll feel comfortable throwing me in an opener. They'll feel comfortable throwing me in a co-main maybe or feature prelim. Delam Adelena could end up in that spot someday, but right now he's just going up and up and up and up. And one more either exciting performance or a quick knockout, I mean, that has to turn our headlining spot somewhere, right? So obviously not in a pay-per-view. But, yeah, if they're able to, I think a fight night, if they could get something over in Australia, or even the glamorous UFC Apex, I think it's very, very possible.

John, who headlines first? Jake Matthews or JDM. AK, I don't know how you can mention Jack's name and like, hey, it's such a great musical name, which it is, and not mention that that's not even like the full name, right? He was saying on the MMA hour yesterday that his name's Giacomo or something like that. Like, I don't even remember it, but it's amazing. He is an amazing actual name. Like, I wish he would go by that, which I know his manager, Tim.

Simpson is pushing for because that's just tremendous stuff. In terms of the question itself, I said it on Saturday, and I'll say it again here today, I am just so ridiculously impressed by Jake Matthews. And impressed in a way that that fight really felt like one of those moments that we're going to look back on a couple years from now of like, hey, this is when this guy turned this corner and became somebody who actually really, really mattered. Because, I mean, Jake Matthews has been in our lives for so long, right? it's really the Charles Olivera syndrome or the RDA syndrome

where this dude's been in our lives for almost like eight years. He was on the ultimate fighter nations, tough nations, if you guys remember that. Like, I'm sure five people listening to this have heard of that right at this point. And he was like 19 years old when he came into the UFC. And he still has like a fairly decent record.

If you look at his UFC record, he's won much more than he's lost. But it was sort of that pattern that you saw with a guys like a Charles Olivera or Haffaio de Sainios, where finding his sea legs, in the promotion, win some, then lose one, win some, then lose one. If you look at the last five, he's won four, he's only lost to Sean Brady, who obviously looks like right now one of the best Walter weights out there.

So that's not a bad loss by any means. And it just feels like he has become a full grown-ass man, right? Like, that dude was, that was not a kid in there on Saturday against Andre Fialo. That was a grown-ass man who put a grown-ass man-style beating on that, on his opponent. and it was incredible to watch. Just the ferociousness he was approaching. We have never seen Jake Matthews look like that, and that felt to me like a harbinger of something to come

where maybe for the next five years, six years, seven years, this is someone who actually really, really matters at 170 and we're just going to be talking about him for quite a while. He's paid his dues. The UFC has really been patient with him in a way that I appreciate. You know, you and I both know all of us know on this show that sometimes they tend to rush these type of guys who come in so young, 19 years old, they've really, really been patient with Jake Matthews,

and it feels like it's finally about to pay off. And I would not be surprised if Jake Matthews has headlined several shows by that time his career is over, because it does look like he is about to turn the corner on his career and really push into title contention right now. That's at least my view on it. Yeah, Jake Matthews looked like a freaking light heavyweight in there on Saturday. And just like 4% body fat, looked like a massive. Millie and fought like 10 Billy. So good for him.

Good for both of those guys. And there's other fighters that we could mention as well, but we have to move on. The point for round two goes to this is a Phrashka, Texhera-esque type of BTL battle. The swings are unbelievable. But it goes to AK with the bold pick of an interim title fight. People love it. Listen, that's a cheap pop. People hear interim and they just get excited.

I hate that I hate that I had to reach. reaching to that bag of tricks so early, but I was on the ropes. So that's just to get back into it. Nice. Let's go to this Saturday because the UFC is returning to the United States. They are in Austin, Texas. Main event is Calvin Cater versus Josh Emmett. Big fight.

More on that in a moment. But, Sean, let's start with you because I have done countless preview shows with many of the staff members for all of these fight night cards. And oftentimes we have to dig real deep to find something interesting. but we don't have to do that here. This is real easy to do, is it not? As far as fight night cards go, this is one of the better offerings

the UFC's had in quite some time, is it not? I would agree with you. And in fact, me and you talked about this earlier in the week, just offline. I almost feel like this card is kind of low-key deeper than the card we just got, the card that was $75, the pay-per-view, you know, the UFC 275.

The stuff at the top of 75 was obviously much better. The top three fights there were phenomenal, but just in terms of general depth, there's a lot to like here. Like there really is a lot to like here. First of all, the main event is absolutely sensational. It's getting slept on a lot. And I think a lot of that is because of Josh Emmett. He competes so infrequently because he is seemingly one of the unluckiest people in the sport.

He's been basically one fight a year for the last couple years because of injuries. But when he does compete, he is a monster. Like I saw some stat this morning. I wish I could remember from who I would love to shout you out right now, but that he is like 11 knockdowns in seven featherweight fights, which is just like the most of anybody in that span. Like he's just averaging more than one knockdown a fight. It's just,

he is such a powerful, powerful, powerful explosive striker out there that it feels as if any moment it could just happen for him. And meanwhile, Calvin Cater, I mean, Calvin Cater is coming off of just a tremendous win over Gika Ciccadze where it felt like the entire world just kind of slept on him and forgot that he existed for a good six months, eight months, after that Max Holloway fight, and he really reminded people why he was sought to be a contender on the rise.

And then you have Kevin Holland out here making his second fight at Welterweight. Tim Means, like, that is a sensational, sensational fight. We're getting Cowboy Lazzon finally, the battle of these veterans. Adrian Yanez taking on Tony Kelly, which is surprisingly has like a little bit of a storyline now after Tony Kelly's whole thing in his girl's last fight, his girlfriend's last fight. So the whole thing is I actually really like this event. I think there's a lot to like there. And I think there's just in terms of low-key bangers,

like you could pick any number of them and you'd be right. Lots of like here, A.K., save the gymnastics scale, because I'm sure we're going to need it at some point over the next couple of days. But since this ESPN post-pandemic cards almost every weekend type of schedule for the UFC, I mean, top to bottom, this is delicioso. Yeah, I love it. Listen, these fight nights at this point are like a ghost-faced kill album. It's like they just get lucky sometimes.

and have like the right mix of fights. It's not intentional. It's not like they're like, oh, June 18th. Let's build a super strong card for Austin. Like, yeah, it's great to you. Like, it's great to you back in Texas, but, you know, they have a paper view in Dallas coming up. That's really where their focus was on.

And they just, I think they just happened to put together this amazing combination of fights featuring, again, contenders at the top, veterans in the co-main event. Just like, legends, I'll say, in the co-main event. You've got some prospects on the prelims. And then you've got like just really good stylistic matchups on the main card. And it all comes together. And that's, you know, that's why we're so excited.

And that's why I don't even think it's arguable. It's definitely deeper than UFC 275. U.C. 275 paper reviews in general will always have that appeal, you know, of that big fight at the top or at least, you know, two title fights, which is becoming pretty standard these days. So that's tough to beat. But as far as depth, top to bottom, sitting down from the very first fight of the night and then, you know, all the way, you know, building to a crescendo at the end. It's hard to do much better than this. It's just a really, it's really a good looking card.

And the other day on the podcast, the all bets barred with Jed Mishu, we were kind of talking about, you know, using it on every card, there's a fight you kind of don't care about. I think the exact question is, what fight would you take off? I don't really have one in this card. Like, I think they're all compelling in their own way. Like, it's not to say that everyone here. is like a future star or that every fan should know who all these fighters are. But I think like even if you didn't know who some of these fighters are, you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

Like maybe you're not familiar with Gloria DePaula and Maria Levera. But I think that's actually a really compelling fight. Same with Jasmine Giuseuioz, who I think is going to be a player at a 125. Maybe for some reason you're not familiar with Phil Haas and Duran Wyn. I mean, it's been a while since Duran Wynn has been in there. I like that style of matchup. So it's a little bit of something for everyone, which isn't always the best thing in MMA. Sometimes you want cars that are top-heavy. Sometimes, you know, you want that boxing style built around one, you know, one or two fights.

But since we just got that, just got a top-heavy card, they really couldn't have planned this better if they wanted to by following that up with, again, a card that is more, that's more well-rounded, you know? Main event, AK Calvin Cater versus Josh Emmett, big month for the featherweight division, AK, because we have this fight. Volcanovsky Holloway 3 for the title, July 2nd, UFC 276. And then two weeks after that, we have Yayae Rodriguez versus Brian Ortega on that ABC card, July 16th in Long Island.

So the stakes are very high here, my best friend. But how high are they? Is this the number one contender fight or is July 16th the number one contender fight? I can't hear. I just, I was just trust me, you didn't want to. I was, I was breathing in a weird way. That was intentional. Trust me.

The podcast listeners will think, we'll thank me later. No, listen, when I was thinking, I was deep in thought, so I had like a weird, I took a weird breath. Okay, there you go. There's a little behind the scenes movie magic for people. I'm really hard pressed to say that this will be the, this will be a number contender fight. If only because, look, I've kind of been, I've kind of been saying, I don't know if Calvin Cater ever gets there. I can, now there's nothing wrong with me changing my opinion on that. But I don't know.

I really see him as this guy who is a fight night main eventer, a pay-per-view co-main eventer. And unless he rattles off like a really, really strong like four, five, six wins in a row with a couple of highlights in there, with wins over at least two ranked guys in there. All possible, all possible. I don't know if the UFC is invested in him as a legitimate challenger. I think it's going to be a good night for him on Saturday. I do think that I have, I do expect him to win.

And I'm happy for him and the good people of New England because they're going to be dealing with a lot of heartbreak tonight when the Golden State Warriors take out the fraud, Boston Celtics and have to watch Canada's own Andrew Wiggins hoisting, hoisting the Larry O'Ryan in whatever junkie arena the Celtics plan. I don't kind of remember the name of it. So I'm really looking forward for that. But it's fine.

They're going to get a Calvin Cater win on Saturday and just completely forget all about it. So it's great. it all bounces out for you guys Sean I don't even care about the point I don't even care about the point in this round well you're not getting it

you've no chance of getting it forfeit it ahead Sean forfeit I don't want your pity points I don't want your pity points also I totally agree with AK I hope the Golden State Warriors just wash the Celtics tonight or whenever that game is I have stopped I have officially stopped watching basketball

I didn't even know basketball was still going on but I hope the Golden State Warriors just finished this so we can stop acting like the NBA is a thing that is existing right now because it's clearly not. Everybody knows that. What are we talking about? What was the question? Is this a number one contender fight? No, it's not a number one contender fight.

Like, they would love it to be a number one contender fight. Josh Emmett and Calvin Cater would love for that to be the number one contender fight. But it's not. I mean, we still have Max and Volcanowski coming up. Who knows with those two guys? What kind of weirdness is going to happen? I expect that Volk will probably win that fight. But if Max wins, then at that point, you kind of have to do.

a fourth one, right? It's one to two. We're weird at that point. Also, you have Brian Ortega versus Yaira Rodriguez coming up. And I think I could guarantee for you that if Yaya Rodriguez wins, whether it's entertaining or not, the UFC will try to push him into a title fight. And also, even if Volk

wins against Max, he's starting to talk about moving up. He's starting to talk about doing different things in different divisions. And it feels like we're reaching the point almost where the UFC might start entertaining it because he has been so dominant. And at this point, he is like one of the top three pound for pound fighters in the world so why not see while he's still in his prime how far he can stretch this so no this saturday is not going to be a number one contender fight but it's still a damn good fight like that to me

doesn't diminish it at all real quick i have to turn this around after the south exclander but uh i'm i'm so mad that you actually got me to think of a brand new award because i just i looked on the greatest website in the world that i'm may fighting and looked on twitter so we're going to do this we're going to pick one fighter outside of the main storyline, Sean, that you have your eye on. Who is the first ever Ascar Moserov award winner for UFC Austin in the most positive way possible? What's the most intriguing fighter on the card that no one's talking about, but you're excited about? I humbly submit if this is going to be a positive award with positive feelings around, we should probably rename it, maybe. I don't,

How many guys outside of this guy have made a fight night, like main card fight in his UFC debut, this like intriguing and fascinating? Because I cared more about his fight than the actual main event on that card. But not for good reasons. I wouldn't say you cared for good reasons. To me, you look at the undercard,

because to me, like that would have to come from the undercard, and it's the featured undercard fight. It's Adrian Yanez, who has thus far looked incredible in the UFC. I mean, he is four fights in. He's gotten bonuses in all four fights. He is just rolling in that bonus money right now. And three of those were just extraordinarily violent finishes. And the one that wasn't was Davy Grant.

And David Grant just kind of doesn't. You know, he's not going to get finished like that very often. Like he is a gamer. He is from that Glover to share a eaten gravel for breakfast type of mold, right? Like David Grant, you're not going to have an easy way with him. So the Adrian Yonaz at this point is one of the more intriguing guys in this in this Bantamweight division full of intriguing guys. he's certainly one of the more intriguing guys outside of the main rankings that we sort of think of.

So to me, I mean, this is a big one for him. If he can get this one, it's five in a row, six if you want to count the contender series as well. And at that point, we're starting to talk about really fun fights for Adrian Yanez, right? Like, we're starting to talk about lower ranks of the top 15, maybe a tiny bit into the top 10 and just seeing how far this kid can go. Like, he is still, I'm looking it up right now, 28 years old. Like, he is just hitting his prime right now. This could be a very exciting contender for years to come at 135, which is just full of guys like this.

And so for me, I'm really, really intrigued to see if Adrian Yannis can continue to be who it feels like he should be. AK, what's say you? Joaquin Buckley. So this has much to do with who he's fighting as to who Joaquin Buckley is. Of course, with walking Buckley, I think we're still in that stage where there's like a ton of intrigue around him. you know he just had that split nod over abdul of azakh al-hasaan where you know again we got to see a little more of a tactical side of him so that's cool like are we seeing him round out as game like you know become a more sophisticated fighter not necessarily just to highlight chaser and a legitimate contender so that's one aspect of it and then there's the other aspect could he just whip out a crazy ass knockout that he's like he's done before so there's that aspect of it but that is not why that is not why i'm saying walking buckley uh walking buckley represents the forces of good in this bout because his opponent albert derayan I'm not sure on people, no, remember this. He got a cut in some hot water some time ago for a video showing him at a pal of his

throwing a cat between them. I'm not a pet owner. I love cats. They're the only animal I can stand. I know I'm a terrible person. I just don't like animals, but I love cats. I don't know what, I'm a cat person. For all the good and bad that that entails, I am very strongly a cat person.

So seeing this video was very, was very, very good. very upsetting. You're out on dogs. You're just, I'm sorry to cut it. You're out on dogs. I've lost this round anyway. So I think now is the time for people to see, you know, the real, the real man. I'm, I don't, I'm afraid of them. What? I don't, I don't, you know, I probably had a couple of bad experiences as a kid or something. It's probably some trauma. I will, listen, I will pet friends, dogs. I will get along with dogs, but like, dogs I don't know. I don't know. They just, I, it's, it's not a good time. It's not a good time. I'm a catman.

I have like a little 30-pound dog who's not like very aggressive. Like you would be scared of? Not yet. Not if she met, until she met me and then she ripped my face off. Oh my gosh. I can't. If you're out on dogs,

we might need to end the show. I can't keep doing it. Listen, this has caused me a lot of problems socially, professionally. But I, but I don't care. I have to be honest with America.

I don't, I'm not crazy about horses. Honestly, I'm not, they're just scare me. I've never met Narangatangutang, but I bet if I did up close, we probably wouldn't get along. So anyway, I'm just saying animals and me, we don't get along. I'm not blaming animals, but this is not be hating on animals.

This is a me, this is a me issue. Okay, animals and me don't get along. So I am not hating on animals. I'm not hating on people who love animals. I get it. I'm so touched when I see how much my friends love their dogs, my family. I'm like, I wish I could feel the same way as opposed to sheer terror or disinterest. depending on the dog in question.

Anyway, this is a whole other, I know, I'm sorry guys, this is a whole other podcast we could have done. I apologize. The point is, Albert Dariyev did some very, very inappropriate things, throwing his cat around.

I don't like, I didn't like that footage. He hasn't fought since, so he hasn't had the chance to get his comeuppance. This is his first time fighting since that video happened. I believe,

I think it would happen after his UFC debut. So, or at least a video came out after his UFC debut. So, Joaquin Buckley, you are, you are doing this for all the cat lovers out there. Maybe pet lovers in general, I don't know, but I can only speak for the cat lovers.

We are behind you 100% and hoping that you get this W. And teach Mr. Teach Mr. Dariah of a lesson, please, but not, don't, don't throw it. Don't throw any animals. Don't throw cats. Don't throw any animals. It's not good. I thought we were going to get some sort of applause, but maybe the dog comments.

You can't give that man applause right now. What are we talking about? I know. I'm saying, yeah, I just, that's, I'm not, this is, like I said, I'm not taking your heart stance on this and saying everyone should be like me. This is, this is just my thing. Okay. Can we play the Sean L. Shaii just got to play music, Casey? All right.

Listen. I don't. All right. We need to get you around some good dogs, man, because dogs are like... Dogs are one of the best things on earth. My cousins, my cousins have the most lovely dogs, and I get along with them so well. It's just like a, but it's like a case-by-case basis. It's like, I don't know. I just, every... It's just, I start from zero with every dog I made. Maybe you, maybe your dog and I have your best friends, Jehine.

Is this, uh... Yeah, come on. Yeah. Wait, this is, Sheehan, this is your dog? Phezick, right? No, that's Peswick, I think, right? That's Pesig. I was saying. Yeah, that's Pesig in the truck right now. Fesig, I'm sorry. You have an amazing name, first of all.

Also, I mean, if we're talking... Casey, stop putting that face up. Stop, stop, please. Now I'm feeling bad inside. If we're talking Princess Bride, Peszick and I are on the same page today. Oh, there we go. That's amazing.

That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, listen, I... I... I got my dog like, a year ago, I'm almost 40, first dog I've ever had in my life. So, listen, sometimes it just takes time, it's all right. But, workday knows there are two kinds of people in business, backward thinkers and forward thinkers.

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in the Bannam White Division because we confirmed last night that the UFC, and let me get the language light, right, Aljo, because we never said the fight was done. It is close to being finalized. A Banim White title fight between Al J. Stirling and T.J. Delishaw, September 10th,

TBD, main event TBD, not done yet. That seems to be the direction the UFC wants to go. Dillashaw clearly wants it. Aljo is down for it, but he wants more money. If you just watch his video on YouTube, he wants to make sure he's getting treated accordingly. Feels like he's done enough promotion. Thought he did a great job selling the last fight.

He wants to be treated like a champion. He wants to get a little bump and pay. So he's out on social media saying that he's not fighting TJ. The fight is not done. So he's saying, also has said he'd rather the Henry Sohudo fight, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen because not in September anyways, because Sehudo's back in the Usada pool. It's not going to be ready to October.

But let's just say, AK, let's just say that we're acting as if Sterling Dillishas is happening. It's done. Let's just say pen hits paper, ink dries on the books. Either way, this is what the UFC happened. As the voice of Bannonweight Shine, Is the UFC doing this right? Is this the right fight? Gosh, I want to be so positive here because it's a cool fight.

Let's start from a point of positivity. It's a cool fight. I think if you ask the average person, do you want to see T.J. Dillashah fight Al J. Stirling, discounting, again, whatever else been going on in the division, do you want to see this fight? Stalistically, based on Dillishah's reputation, based on Sterling's recent success.

Do you want to see the fight? Yes. It's a great fight. fight we hope to see i think we'd all hope to see someday and if we're getting it next you know that's not the worst thing in the world um i've always found it i've always been uncomfortable with dillashah getting thrown right back into the title picture after a two-year drug suspension and after a very close super exciting super exciting but very close win over uh cori san hegan which i know a lot of um a fighting crew definitely did not score it for did not score that fight for t j delishaw i thought it was

closer than people, you know, I did not think it was a robbery, but I do know a lot of big chunk of the Eminem media had it for, for San Hagan, which is fine. So that's two, that's two kind of weird question marks, right, that, that we are rewarding a guy. Yeah, he did the time. And yes, he's a former, a two-time champion. He's been in countless big fights. And at least as far as, mid-tier stars go, is a draw in that sense. You know, he's not like he's not going to sell a million paper views, but is he a bigger name, I was going to say he's a bigger name than Jose Aaldo. And it's like, is he really?

So this is where we get to the negative side of it. Because all of us, I think, wanted to see Jose Aaldo get that shot. Like how much time, how much, as opposed to any of them in this very difficult fight with Maraub de Valle, really, you know, that is supposedly coming up. So I'm sort of conflicted on this. I'll side with the UFC, if only for the reasons I listed above that, Dillashaw is the quote unquote bigger name. How much bigger is he? I'm not honestly, I'm not honestly sure, but that is at least sort of the thinking that's going on through their heads. There's a logic to

that. He'll be able to talk up a fight. You know, the trash talk, I think is going to be really regrettable and like not exactly, you know, Stone Cold Steve Austin, the rock level stuff, but they will talk. These are two guys who are going to promote the fight, who are going to do tons in media who are going to, you know, break out juvenile insults and memes and what have you. And the UFC loves that. The UFC loves in lieu of actual marketing and promotion, the UFC loves when fighters get their hands dirty and, you know, and I was going to say not cross the line, but they didn't even care if they cross the line sometimes.

That code of conduct is, you know, exists in theory. And TJ and Algebra aren't a sort to, again, do anything too crazy in that regards anyway. So, yes, from the most sort of, again, positive and sort of brass tacit. way of looking at it. This is the right fight to make. Again, I really don't know what's going with the Josie Aldo situation. The whole morab thing is very confusing to me. But if Dill Shah is the way they chose to go with it, it's not a bad main event at all. And again, when the fight comes around, I imagine everyone will be super excited about it and not too, you know, not too worried about what could have been. Is this the right fight, Sean? Is this the way you would go if you had

the magic pencil? No. No, it's not the right fight. And like, so like, I'll start by saying, obviously, we all understand what the UFC is doing, right? Like, and with, it's funny, AK ends with, like, by the time it comes, everyone will be excited for it. Sure, it's a fun matchup. It's an interesting stylistic matchup. Everyone will be excited for any matchup. By the time comes, that's what we do. We talk ourselves into this over the course of the week, and then by Saturday, we're all just ready for it, right?

Like, that's our pattern every single week. We talk ourselves into whatever's going on. But that wasn't the right fight, and it shouldn't have been the right fight. What has T.J. Dillishaw done? over the last four years. Like, he has one win over the last four years, and it was a fight he definitely shouldn't have win. AK doesn't want to call it a robbery.

I'll call it a robbery. Like, if you want to look at that Sanhagen fight and judge that Sanhagen fight with how we have been just, it has been pounded into us over the last year and a half, what is the thing that matters most in these fights? Damage. Damage, damage, damage.

Doesn't matter about volume, damage. Damage is above all else. Corey Sanhagan did so much more damage than Tichita Dillishah in that fight. Like, that should have very clearly been a Corey Sanhagan. and win. T.J. Dillashaw essentially cheated his ass off, got suspended for two years, came back,

barely won a fight he shouldn't have won, and now all of a sudden is being ushered into the title shot because he has the resume, the legacy, and he is a bigger name who will talk shit much more than Jose Aldo. You know, the UFC wants that and likes that with the marketing of their fights. I understand it. We all understand why he's getting this fight, but it 100% should have been Josealdo. Again, this is the greatest featherweight of all. time. This is a legend of the sport who is having just this crazy end of career moment, much like

a Glover Tashara or much like someone else where he's going on a run at 35 that no one expected him to ever go on. The three wins he has are actually really good wins. Cheevera, Pedro Munoz, Rob Font. The Rob Font, one in particular was incredibly impressive. And at that time, Rob Font was like the number four, number three guy. And now all of a sudden we're having Aldo fight down in the rankings if he ends up with that Morab fight rather than fighting up. And I actually like that Marab fight for him because of all those incredible takedown defense. And I think stylistically, it may play into his favor. But ultimately, he should have been the guy fighting for this title.

It just wouldn't have sold as much so you understand why the UFC didn't do it. But just on a general, like, who deserves it more? T.J. Dillishat does not deserve this title any more than anyone else. Several figures within the division have sort of pointed this out and said, like, why is this guy getting this treatment other than the fact of, you know, his past, that sort of thing. it should have been Dillishah, but we all know it was going to be Dillishah, so it's not surprising that ultimately it is Dillishah. So let's talk about a name that I just love to talk about if you listen to HAC of the morning.

One name that has not really been mentioned in this whole thing, Henry Sehudo. Henry Sehudo. So let's just say he does indeed actually want to fight Sean, all right? And we see all these other fights in the books because we're running out of names that this guy could fight right now. looks like there's one guy that's not attached to anybody right now Sean his name is peodorianne do we do yon sahudo is that a fight sohudo would actually take or is sohudo just not fighting anybody unless the titles on the line so i would like to do that so that's an interesting question the way you phrased it because i would love that fight that to me feels

like an easy number one contender fight you could sell that the stylistic matchup is very nice see where Henry's at compared to the rest of the current 135 pound division, right? I think a lot of people still consider Peter Yan the obvious number two. Will Henry accept that fight is a different question because I don't know, right? That is a high, high, high risk fight if you're getting a heavily motivated Peter Jan coming in here to try to get his title back for your first fight back in several years. That's a tough ask for anybody. I don't know if Henry would accept that fight.

Kudos to him if he would, but I actually really dig that little. piece of matchmaking you did because you're right. That makes a lot of sense and I would love to see it frankly. And I've not been very kind to Henry Sehudo AK as you have heard throughout these heck of morning episodes just because, and I'm not downgrading what the man has accomplished in his career because he has accomplished a lot in his career. And if I'm the UFC, I'm not giving this guy a title shot. I'm not giving it to him because he left you high and dry and he shouldn't fight for the title after leaving you high and dry. Plus the promotion moved on. It's not like they mourned for two months.

They moved on that same night and already put Pierre Yan in a title fight. So why don't we just do this now? And my respect levels for this comeback will grow tremendously. I will believe it. I will shine light on Henry Suhudo. I will put this man over at the beginning of a heck of a morning if he takes this fight.

Is this the fight that should be made? Will Suhudo take it or are we going to be having this conversation until somehow, some way, he finds his way into a title fight that he probably shouldn't get right now because of how he left the company. Mike, I'm with you on the whole Sahudo thing. Listen, great fighter, great athlete, one of the great combat sports athletes of all time,

whatever you want to, you know, whatever superlative you want to attack on there, I mean, feel free. He's had a great career, had a great career. That has no effect on what should be going forward because he, again, no, no, you've said this a million times in heck of a morning. He just has no leverage. He has no leverage. He left under such under the most like, like the most satisfying terms for the UFC essentially. Like they kind of got a big fight out of it. I'm sure they wanted to have him around for more big fights. But

when he left saying, I'll come, essentially saying, I'll come back for more money. The UFC was very much like, okay. Noted. Noted. And that's it. And they moved on. And they moved on. And you know, and again, you've said this a million times. Yeah, listen, the fight with Yon is absolutely what should happen. I think there's almost no chance he does that. They could throw an interim title on the line that might wet his appetite. One, again, you're getting that title money. You're getting, you know, points.

And then it is even more officially a number one contenders fight, about as official as a number one contenders fight can be in the UFC. So I would love it if that fight happened. I just don't get the sense that like the UFC, again, is actively trying to make that fight happen. Peodor Yan, of course, Peter Yan is like, you know, I'm sure he's talking to whoever saying, like, you know, is this guy coming back? If he does come back, I should be the one, I can be the one to fight him. Give us an interim title or whatever. Whatever needs to be done to get this guy back in there. Pay him what he deserves, blah, blah, blah. Play us both what we deserve. But the UFC itself, again, it's just like the division is so strong. Maybe it's lacking someone with, again, that kind of name power and that kind of, you know, willingness to sell as Henry Sehudo. But it's, again, it's not not that much. He's not so like heads, heads and shoulders above everyone else when it comes to marketing himself or the division or the UFC. As much as he says he is, like, oh, I saved this division. I did that. It's like, that's all like, all of that is like a half truth.

You know, there's some element of truth to it. But if you dig into it, it's like he was more part of it than leading a lot of these movements, right? So it sounds so bad. I hate how much we have to talk down again, a guy who's won a gold medal and two UFC titles. And you really just had a fantastic career. But yeah, if he just comes back and just angles for a title shot, I'm not interested in hearing it. I would love to see him fight someone first. And if it's Peter Yan, I mean, you really just can't do better than that.

Let's create this sort of four-man tournament and let's go from there. You would think the Yan fight would kind of excite him a little bit after what Sterling did to him on the ground. And the ease he was able to get takedowns and take his back. You would think if you're Suhudo, you're like, all right, I feel like him coming off this tough love. This is now the time to take this fight, but we'll see what happens. Bannonwait's fun. We'll see if Valjoins a fighting Dillusha. I don't know how much clout he's going to have in this situation.

I'm guessing not a ton, but maybe he gets what he wants. Hopefully he gets more money. That's what we should want for all these fighters. Point for round four goes to A.K. Antoine Walker Lee. There we go. Go Celtics. Go Celtics. Go dogs. That's right. That's right. Time for the knockout round, everybody.

I have playoff softball, so I'm getting all ramped up right now mentally. Big playoff games tonight. Get a drive to the island. I'm getting ready for this. But knock out round, it's going to be the same question for both guys. AK, you gave me a question idea, which I really liked, but the new cycle put us in a different direction. So I'm going a different way. I love your idea, though.

Hang on to that. We will use it at another time. I'm sure we're going to need it. But each gentleman will have one minute to answer this question. once we get to that and that is complete you guys will vote on who will win and Casey will come on

and announce the winner so AK I was going to let you go first because you're my best friend but you said awful awful things about the Celtics called them frauds Sean at least with his hatred

of the Celtics was his hatred for the NBA right now because it's just global he just wants the season to be over it's not because he dislikes the Celtics although he might a little bit so Sean you get to decide do you want to go first

or do you want to pass on over to AK? I'll go a second. AK can go for you. AK, my best friend, come on in here. If you could be one member of the Boston Celtics, I was kidding. Jalen Brown.

We found out yesterday that one of the biggest what-ifs in UFC history Zabit Magamad Sheripov has officially announced this retirement from professional sports competition. He made a statement confirming such. We reported it yesterday. We thought this might happen. Signs are pointing towards this happening. And it is official. Zabit Magabed Sharapov, no longer a UFC

fighter, no longer a featherweight, no longer a guy knocking on the door of the title shot. Now, he has been in some interesting matchups. He's been booked in a number of fights that didn't happen. So I'm curious, AK, with Zabit moving on to a different profession with one minute on the clock, what's the fight that got away in your eyes? What's this is a beat fight that you've always wanted to see that you never got? What was that most intriguing matchup, that fantasy matchmaking versus the beat

that just never came to be because it's not going to come to be because Abed has walked away in his own terms and we applaud him for that. One minute on the clock, your time starts now. I'm staying right inside the box and I'm just going with you at your Rodriguez. It's a fight that was talked about for so long.

It was the most recent fight that Zabit was actually tied to. I can't remember if it was actually announced or signed or whatever, but we all thought that fight was inevitable. There was heat there. There was a stylistic matchup there. There was two guys who just seem to be perennially

on the cusp of getting, it wouldn't have been a number one contenders fight, but if the winner of that would have certainly moved on to a number one contenders fight, it would have answered a lot of questions about Zabit. I mean, his two biggest wins, Calvin Cater and Crash Bosniak where like all, everyone said,

man, if those fights had been five rounds, he would have, you know, he would have lost. I think a fight with Yairo Rodriguez would have been a fight night main event, presumably. They would have given them the five rounds. We would have gotten an idea of whether Megameshirepov could compete in the championship rounds. It was just so perfect and everything about it made sense. And I think he would have won, and I think he would have gone on to a title fight. So, I mean, that's how much it hurt to lose that one.

It's like the plan was there. Instead, you know what? Happy trails the beat. All right. We go over to Sean. I felt like Yai Yer is probably the easy. easiest answer because it was booked so many times. You could do like a 30 for 30 or an outside of the lines just on the booking of that fight.

Yeah, you're in the UFC, he's out of the UFC, back in the UFC because of this whole deal. But now we're not going to see that fight. We're not going to see any more as the beat fight. So what's that one that got away from you from a stylistic perspective? Is there a certain matchup that you were hoping, you're clamoring for that is just not going to happen now that if you're very disappointed about it on this Thursday, one minute on the clock, your time starts now. Well, Mike, you're certainly right in that the y'ir fight was the low-hanging fruit, right? That's the one. That's the easiest one. That's the obvious one. It can go ahead and take one.

That obviously we wanted to see it. Everyone wanted to see it. But to me, I wanted to see farther than that. Because if you guys remember when Zabit came into the UFC, he was from day one talked about as this guy is going to challenge for titles sooner rather than later. And I wanted to see him get to that point. Excuse me. I wanted to see him get to that point. I wanted to see him fight eight Alexander Volkanowski. Because if you would have put the two of those men together in the same room and made them face off, the diametric opposites of just their bodies and their body types and just everything about them would have been so fascinating to watch. You see five, six, Alexander Volcanowski versus six one, Zabit Magamad Shariap,

just facing off against each other. And Volcanowski having to look so far up to see this towering just skin and bones guy who we weren't sure about his cardio. sure about a couple other elements of them. I would have loved to see just how far Zabit could have gone, and I would have loved to see that stared up. Yeah, that would have been something to behold. So two excellent answers. Happy trails again to Zabit, Magamad Sharapov.

I mean, what a career you had up until the point, and you're coming out of, you leave with the hard-fought victory at home against a very game, Calvin Cater. And we wish you all the best in your new career as, I believe, a doctor somewhere in the medical profession. so good on him. I'm wasting time right now. We're letting you cast your votes

pull on the MA fighting page right here. Cash your vote who wins, A.K. Lee, Sean El Shottie. In the meantime, tomorrow, 3 p.m. Eastern, UFC Austin preview show. It's going to be super fun, getting ready for Calvin Cater versus Josh Emmett. Really loaded cards.

I'm sure the peeps are going to have a lot to talk about as well. We'll have another heck of a morning 10 a.m. Eastern on the M.A. fighting Twitter spaces. So join us for that. And then Saturday, People's Pre-Fight Show, 3.30 p.m. Eastern time because we got an early start time. We get some afternoon MMA, just the way we like it. Well, post-fight show afterwards. And then AK and I are back on Sunday to do some matchmaking on another episode of On to the next one,

as you get you ready, continuing on the road to International Fight Week. UFC 276 coming up in a couple of weeks. Of course, don't forget about Matush Gamrod versus Armand Sarukian headlighting that fight night card on June 25th. So Casey, are you there? Where are you? There he is. Right here, sir. Guns by guns out.

There he is. E. Casey line. All right. Do we have the votes tabulated? Do we have a winner? Yes, we do have a winner. All right. Your winner on today's Between the Links is Alexander K. Lee.

Whoa. The people, did they not? hear my anti-dog rant? This is concerning. This is very concerning. What are the numbers? Hey, guys, what is what is going on in America? You know what? We left it up to the fans. This is like the crypto fan award. Like, we're rose on me used one. It doesn't mean anything. Listen, I told my truth and I was ready to take a loss for that. I said, as soon as the words left my mouth that I'm not a pet person and I'm not a fan of dogs, I'm like, whatever. I've lost. I had actually forgotten that there was a fan vote. And when I remember later, I'm like, I'm screwed.

I'm screwed. Like, there's no way I'm going to win after that. So I don't know what is going on in America, but, you know, it is a worldwide vote. I don't know. I should say, sorry, I don't know what's going on in the world. But apparently, apparently, some MMA geek can say they don't like dogs and still win one of the most illustrious shows in the business. I'm sorry, guys.

I don't know what to tell you. Okay, here it goes. Look at the graphic at the top. Six wins now. What? What were the percentages, Casey? A.K. Lee won by 55% of the vote. Wow. All right. A lot of cat lovers watching the show.

All right. A.K. Say what you got to say, man. Sorry, I was going to eat my record like a hot dog. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think you did. Sorry, I was so upset by AK1. I forgot about the confetti cannons. Sorry. Oh, I'm supposed to plug something. Well, I'll just say, please, people, if you didn't already. well first of all I mean sorry I should say thank you Shaheen for joining me on the joining us on the show today I you know I would be nothing without without a strong a strong dog loving opponents and I'm glad it worked out the way it did this is a fun show

normally I don't like being on the show but if Shaheen's going to be on I'll be on every time I'll just plug guys if you didn't if people did not read my robbery review for UFC 275 Valentina shiuchenko versus talus santos I think it's one of my favorite ones I've done it was actually one of the easiest ones to do, frankly, for a fight that it was difficult to score in the moment. But watching again, it was actually really enjoyable to watch again and kind of break down why the fight ended up the way it did, why it was scored the way it did, and why people should not be up in arms about the way the fight was scored.

So that is on M.A.flying.com, guys, my latest Robert review. And check on all my other robbery reviews. Because they're just a fun time. There you go, A.K., Shaheen, any final thoughts on how the fans voted here? No, I mean, I don't know. I think I've lost like three in a row on this show, apparently just the people don't like me. So that's, that sucks. Oh, no.

So that's a great time. No, I don't know. I was going to say, so on Sunday is Father's Day, obviously. This is actually going to be my first Father's Day as a father. My wife is incredibly pregnant right now. And so whenever our young one comes, I'm very excited for that, but also just a happy Father's Day to my father. I think it's actually the 10-year anniversary of him passing away. So I love you, Dad.

You're always in our thoughts and happy fathers to you, man. Dude, change the votes, people. Are you kidding me? Just hand the trophy over, AK. People hate dogs. I can't believe that a dude who spent five minutes talking about how much he hates dogs. Also horses. I can't win.

I can't win. Also horses and maybe an orangutan. So you're getting like a true peak behind Command Center, 4.0 because as the show started, I was like tan and not glistening. But as the show has progressed, I've gotten redder and shinier. And the reason is, it is 112 degrees in this studio right now because the air conditioner is not arrived yet. So there's no AC in this new studio. I have three burning lights upon me. And I'm just losing weight here talking to all of you. And I appreciate you guys sticking around. You look, you look fabulous. Thank you. You already won AK. You don't have to

butter me up. We are getting out of here. Oh, the show's over? I'm going to go win some playoffs softball game so we can live to fight another day. We're done. For AK, you can hit the music. There it is. For AK, for Sean, I am Mike Eck. Thank you very much for watching. We'll see you back once again next week, Between the Links. Good night, everybody. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, I think, takes you home. Thanks for watching.

This has been Between the Links. I love dogs. Kay sucks. Go Shaheen. Celtics, they're all right. Whatever. Go sees. Let's go. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.