MMA Fighting - BTL Roundtable | Jon Anik Recaps UFC’s 2021, Explains Why Khamzat Chimaev is 2022’s Most Intriguing Storyline

Episode Date: December 30, 2021

On a very special episode of MMA Fighting’s Between the Links, Jon Anik recaps a memorable 2021 campaign for the UFC and looks ahead to what could be in store for the new year. Anik discusses why 2022 can be a fascinating year for the UFC in-terms of unresolved storylines, Max Holloway’s 2021 campaign not getting enough respect following his wins over Calvin Kattar and Yair Rodriguez, Charles Oliveira being his Fighter of the Year, calling championship wins for Oliveira, Francis Ngannou, Brandon Moreno, Glover Teixeira and Julianna Peña, why he believes Peña’s win over Amanda Nunes was the biggest upset in UFC history, Justin Gaethje vs. Michael Chandler, Khamzat Chimaev being the most intriguing storyline in his eyes heading into the new year, his broadcasting resolutions, and much more with MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand, new edition of Between the Links here on MMAfighting.com, the final BTL of 2021. And I said this last week, and I'll say it again this week, for those expecting the finale of the BTL championship tournament, it's going to have to wait until the new year. All right. As you may have seen, our good friend Jed Bishu has been a little bit under the weather. So the plan is for right now, although as we have seen in this crazy sport of ours, and in this media space,

nothing is guaranteed in this world. But the plan is for right now. Next week, on BTL, Jedmishu versus Phoenix Carnivalet, in the finale to crown an undisputed BTL champion. That is the plan. That is the hope. And that is what we are preparing for. So stay tuned for that.

A nice little New Year's treat to kick off 2022. But I didn't want to leave. hanging this week. Like I said, Jed under the weather. So the initial plan was to do some sort of BTL roundtable with him. Obviously, that is not going to happen. So I decided to think outside of the box. What am I going to do? How can we make the people happy? So I reached out to my old friend, John Anick, who I haven't spoken to in quite some time. And I reached out and I said, hey, a lot to discuss for 2021. 2022 is going to be really interesting.

Do you want to come on? We'll hit record. We'll shoot the breeze and we'll talk about all this stuff. And he said, absolutely. So in a matter of moments, we're going to get you to that conversation with the lead play-by-play voice for the Ultimate Fighting Championship,

Mr. John Anick. We'll take a short break. And when we come back, you'll hear that near 40-minute conversation in its entirety right here on a very special roundtable edition between the links john annick coming up next all right so we have a very special guest in the program this week as we take a look back on an incredible year for the ultimate fighting championship and

look ahead to what 2022 can bring and who better to do that with and with the man who is the lead voice for a lot of these massive moments of this past year the head commentator for the ufc one half of the annick and florian podcast dream team and honestly one of my favorite people in the business mr john anick it has been too long sir how are you thank you buddy it's good to be you, man. It's a good time to be a UFC fan, you know. I really is. I mean, I can't think about a year more anticipated as the one that's forthcoming with all the depth that we have. So it's an exciting time. I've enjoyed the respite. Don't get me wrong. I needed a chance to reset as I know you did and a lot of other people did. But I'm Jones and for a live event at this point as most people are

after a week or two away. I'm glad you said that about 2022, just sort of turning the calendar and and seeing what this all brings. Because when we look back on like the history of the UFC, John, and you were there, 2016 probably has to be the most memorable and storyline driven year of all time for the UFC because 2016 was insane with the two Connor Nate fights, UFC 200, the whole John Johnson, Brock Leszor coming back, MSG, legalizing in New York, Connor becoming the two-deven champion. And so, oh, yeah, the sale of the company.

I mean, it's really hard to top that year from a new standpoint. But man, like you said, wrapping up 2021, heading into 2022, there are so. so many questions that are left unanswered, so many interesting things that happened that don't have a conclusion yet. In terms of like storylines that transpired and the intrigue that a UFC calendar year brings to an upcoming year, is this the number one? Well, like, where does this one rank for you? Well, it's crazy, right? We sit here and don't even know when the February shows are going to be, right? So that's a big part of all of this. And, you know, the octagon size is a whole different conversation. I promise I won't go too far down that.

It's a completely different sport, by the way, in the apex with no fans at a little 25-footer. But we don't even know where the live events are going to be. So I think as much as there had been some luxuries and some liberties at having these events in the apex, I think a lot of us look forward to hitting the road and going to Oklahoma City and going to New Orleans and actually being in that type of environment and allowing the athletes that chance to shine. But yeah, man, a lot of the divisions, we're going to get clarity. You know, we got a couple of interim championship situations. We have a trilogy between Figuero and Moreno that I think needs finality.

So, yeah, man, a lot to look forward to. Kamzachi Maev and Marab Dwalishwili and the Candy Men, as I like to call those two now. So a lot of big things coming up in 2022. This might be a tough question for you to answer, or maybe not, because of all the moments that happened, all the fights you got to call, the performances you got to see. You know, you and I talked in depth about Max Holloway's performance against Calvin Cater and where that one ranked for you in terms of overall showings inside the octagon. But when you think back about all the moments you got to call, all the crazy fights you got

to be a part of, what stands out the most for you? Like, what's the story you're going to tell your grandkids someday about 2021 in the UFC? Well, as is immortalized behind me. And we talked about Max Holloway and Calvin Cater, right? It's hard not to lead there because it was the first UFC live event on ABC. And had it happened in any other month in 2021, it would be getting. the shine that it deserves. I mean, nobody's even mentioning Holloway when it comes to his 2021. And even though it didn't hold a championship, for my money, it had the singular greatest

performance that I've ever witnessed with my own eyes, right? So it was a memorable year, man. I mean, certainly when Connor McGregor fights, it feels otherworldly. And because he and Dustin Porrier had so much to solve, and I guess some of it remains a little bit unsolved. But that was a memorable part of 2021 for sure. I mean, Charles Oliver, is my fighter of the year and seeing him break through when you think of some of the different peaks and valleys in his UFC career. I think a lot of respects for him, it was about finding the right division. Chandler Gaichi, of course, you know, Alexander Volcanovsky and T. City, on and on it goes, man, right? I mean, I say to you all the time as a friend and a colleague,

like these live events run together. And I say that in probably an unflattering way, but it's hard. We turn the page so quickly. Now we get a chance to decompress. It's like, I mean, I could highlight 25, 30 guys right now. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Olivera. I mean, 2021, John, it's a year where Olivera, Brana Moreno, Glover to Chera, and Giuliana Pena became UFC world champions. Like, this is unbelievable stuff, man. Right.

And Francis Inganu as well, who is the most terrifying power puncher that I have ever seen them lock that octagon door behind. So, yeah, I mean, when new champions emerge, I have. said at Long Wind in the past that for me, the best part of the job is seeing somebody breakthrough and become a UFC champion for the first time. Brandon Moreno, you know, choking out Davidson Figureto, Jan Bojovich, which was probably 2020, right? Glover, Tashara at 42 damn years old, you know, and Giuliana Pena, what else can you say? Give her all the goddamn trophies, you know, incredible, incredible year. Which one of those new champions sort of tugged on the heartstrings

most. Like you can make an argument for all of them, but in my eyes, like, I don't get on-site event coverage FOMO very often, but watching Brandon Moreno becoming the flyway champion of the world and that building in Phoenix, good Lord, man, the reaction that the fans are giving him, the moment of reflection before it all kind of settled in upon him. That was one of those moments where I was like, damn, I wish I could have been in that building to watch that happen. What was like the heartstring tug championship moment for you this year? Yeah, well, and Moreno, I was missing. her congeniality and for Mexico to have a homegrown, you know, Mexican-born champion. It's huge. So I would hate to almost go down the lane of championing anybody else's cause

than Brandon's, you know, but I don't know, man, what Giuliana Pena was able to do. I mean, I remember Rick Little showing me training footage of her years and years ago and, you know, privately just showing me just how mean and vicious and skilled, right? Like she finally believes in her skills. So that's what. what it's all about, right? I mean, a mother changing her daughter's life forever with one singular performance. So I don't know, man, it's the greatest sport in the world. Like, it really is. I mean, and that says nothing of just the sport itself, the mixing of the martial arts. We're just talking about breakthrough moments. And obviously, last year, there were a lot of them.

What was that like watching Julianna Payne? We saw your reaction on camera. The UFC does a great job of patching all that stuff. But, I mean, you're sitting there and you can, you try to keep a professional, but if you're sitting at home on the couch with some buddies watching this happen, your reaction is going to be much different. So like, what was that like to watch and try to call? Because, I mean, man, that's like a Red Sox comeback from three O kind of moment. Nobody saw it coming. Well, and it came quickly in this fight too, right? I mean, she was a little bit dejected on the stool and maybe that's the wrong way to put it. But she had to sort of be repurposed. Did Giuliana on the stool after round one? She didn't win round one. So yeah, man, we're, we're just,

just reacting, right? I mean, Joe Rogan aptly put it, right? Professional fans, that's what we are. You know, I'd love to see what our reaction would be if we were doing a fight companion with him in Austin, Texas, you know, it would just be swears nonstop, right? Like, it's a crazy thing because there are so many moments where we just want to sit back and be like, oh my God, oh my, oh, man, you know, and yet we're charged with providing historical context and the soundtrack for these moments. So I don't even remember what I said when Giuliana Pena broke through. I remember saying Nunez retreats. That felt like the sort of swing moment as far as the commentary was concerned.

But yeah, man, a lot of crazy moments in that booth. I can assure you we're not playing it up for the little camera in front of Joe Rogan. You know, we are in the moment like every fan watching around the world. That's the biggest upset in UFC history in your opinion? Yeah, I think so, right? I mean, I really look forward to. I think it's easier to put it in context when we see the rematch between Amanda Nunes and Juliana Pena, if that makes any sense, right? But yeah, I think it is, you know. I mean,

certainly you can point to other upsets in terms of the betting line where maybe you could argue it. I still think Holly Home against Ronda Rousey is in this class, although there were more people like Rashad Evans and others who were saying assuredly that Holly Holm was going to win before that fight happened. Yeah, to look far and wide to find people picking Julianna Pena to win this fight. So I'm not the greatest historian in the world, despite, you know, calling fights now for 10 years for the UFC. But yeah, if you're asking me here, late December, 2021, yeah, that's the biggest upset in UFC history. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's all, it's all like personal preference, too, like where you were, what was going on. Like, I still feel like Matt Sarah beating GSP is just the

way it came about. Like, he was out of the UFC. It was on the ultimate fighter comeback season. Many people felt he lost his, the fight to get to the title shot against GSP. And he goes in there and just bolts him in the first round. Like, that to me is going to be really tough to beat, but it's nice to have Giuliana Pena have that moment because now we have a discussion. This is a clear-cut discussion. Like, Holm-Rousy, I think people saw a lot on the scale, like on the scale and the face-off.

Maybe Rousey was kind of like, I don't know. It's so hard, John, in the sport to bring your A-plus game all these times as a world champion. Like, it's so hard to do. I don't know if this is a changing of the guard. I know that Giuliana Penae is supremely well-coached. And for all these coaches, Rick Little, Luis Claudio, everybody else to break through.

it's a big deal. But Floyd Mayweather was never flat on fight night. Say what you want about when he fought Canelo Alvarez and when he strategically fought certain guys and started slowly against Sugar Shane Mosley and even against Connor McGregor and still always found a way on fight night. Kamara Usman never flat on fight night. He's been sick. He's been injured. He's been hurt in fights. You know, you're right. You hit on something to never be flat on fight night. It's difficult. And that's why I think we have to see the rematch before we can historically put this in proper context because I think if Amanda Nunes comes out and dust Juliana Penny and the rematch her beats her like 50 to 42 over, you know, 25 minutes, then I think maybe we can say that that was

the biggest upset in UFC history. Maybe we can chalk it up to a flat knife for Amanda Nunes, but I don't know, man, Amanda has been very coachable, very disciplined, very mistake free. And for one reason or another, another without taking credit away from Juliana Pena, she did not have it that night. I think Rick Little was so pivotal in that fight. Like maybe Juliana looked dejected on the on the stool and we and only like a few people know the true answer to that. But Rick Little was so good in that spot.

He woke her right up, told her like, listen, you're doing exactly what I told you to do. Like you had a great round. And it just, you almost saw like Julianna Pena's eyes light up like, you know what? You're right. And then we just saw this like completely different animal come out there. Like I feel like Rick Little is one of those guys who just doesn't get the credit he deserves. Because that was brilliant cornering. He said exactly what needed to be said.

And I think we could put him almost on the on the James Krause level where it comes to, hey, this guy knows his fighter so well. He knows exactly what to say. That was one of those moments that I feel like isn't getting talked about enough. What Rick Little had to say to her and what change in Julianna Pena heading in from round one to round two. I love Rick Little. And I can't sing his praises loud enough, you know. And I feel like he's not one of these credit or attention seekers, you know,

which I certainly like. And the same can be said for Louise Claudio and these other guys. a lot of it's been about just getting her to believe in her skills. And that's what Claudio said to me on the bus ride to the airport after Giuliana had broke through the day after. And yeah, man, Rick Little's awesome. You know, I remember when he was sort of criticized back in the day because his fighters don't check leg kicks, you know, and obviously things have changed. I don't know if his fighters still don't check leg kicks. Maybe they do. But yeah, he sticks to his guns and obviously he believes in in his athletes and his system. And for so many of these coaches, my dear friend, the general safe

Saude. All he's trying to do is produce one homegrown UFC champion and then maybe he'll retire, you know, and Rick Little's got a UFC champion. You know, you can never take that away from him. That's the ultimate accomplishment. Now, Bill Belichick, maybe he is not with, you know, a boat called eight rings or whatever it is, right? But it's like for all these coaches, right, you'll go home to your wife, you know, whatever your paycheck or whatever your sacrifice has been as a mixed martial arts coach, Rick Little's got a UFC champion forever. And in many respects, I would think for him, it's like mission accomplished. We'll see you. You know. Yes. So you mentioned Justin Gaichie versus Michael Chandler. That was our fight of the,

like our consensus fight of the year. And it seemed like an easy pick for a lot of people. And as great as that fight was, I think, I think I actually picked that as like the third best fight of the year. Jan Sannhagen for me was so incredible at number two. I actually had Yuri Prakashka versus Dominic Reyes and number one, because that fight was just pure chaos. That was one of those fights where I literally couldn't sit down because I read it. It was almost, it was almost that like in Ganu Steepay first round in Boston kind of feel where I was like something insane is going to happen. I'm just waiting for it. It was just pure chaos the entire way.

And the finish was absolutely incredible, especially knowing that year he was in trouble earlier in that round. But we were spoiled this year. Like we were just, it was a richly spoiled year with tremendous fights. But is Gaichi Chandler your number one or do you see almost similar? Yeah. I mean, I wasn't there for, I wasn't there for, yeah, you Rodriguez and Matt. Hallaway, but certainly that fight is going to end up in the conversation. I'm Rob Dwellis-Willi and Marlin Budice with all the back and forth of that fight for sure.

But yeah, it's Gai Chi Chandler for me, you know. And I also do think that there is a lean to the fourth quarter of the year. There just is, you know, and I can sit here and tell you till I'm blue in the face, the UFC 269 is my event of the year as if anyone really cares, right? But it ain't because it was in December, you know? I mean, there were a lot of things that made that my event of the year. And what Michael Chandler, you know, fault him, if you may, as an MMA coach for sort of taking that approach against Justin Gachie. But he put himself into the UFC Hall of Fame, at least in the fight wing with that fight and that approach and that performance and that heart and that skill and everything else.

So, you know, Gachie's the man. But Chandler obviously was a very willing other side of all that. I actually meant to ask you this question like on a personal level because you obviously called the card and there's some changes make. as Trevor Whitman was pulling triple duty on that main card. But to start the main card off with a fight like that, a fight that everybody knew was going to be absolutely bananas. And then you have Shane Burgos and Billy Q, who put on an incredible fight of their own.

But it was almost like, almost like a fan letdown because they were so into the first fight. Like the fight as a whole, like if you turn the volume down and watch Burgos and Billy Q, you just like, you appreciate it so much. But here in the crowd, it was like it happened to Japan. You got like some claps here and there. And then people started to sort of get into it.

as the fight continued on into the third round. But do you, as a broadcaster, would you prefer it if the Chandler-Gaichi-type fights kick off all these main cards? You put the banger right off the bat or does that not matter to you? Well, I think Justin Gagey needs to fight in the main event, right? I mean, let's be honest. I mean, he's a headlining fighter. But no, I mean, I don't ask a lot.

I just want Mick Maynard and Sean Shelby, if they're watching, to not have it be 15 fights in back-to-back weeks, because that for me is 60 athletes plus maybe. be others if there are short notice replacements and things like that. So for me, bout order is the least of my concerns, you know, unless there are late changes that really interrupt our format and our flow and things like that.

But for me, the real challenge is just the volume of, of the athletes. But I'm not thinking about the crowd or, you know, I might provide the context of the crowd not giving that fight what it deserved because everybody's, you know, smoking a joint in the bathroom or catching a breather,

whatever they're doing after Chandler Gachie. but yeah, can we just do 12 or 13 and not 15 fights, Michael, heck, that'd be great. Yeah, that's a conversation we have all the time. Like, even if you do, you know, 12, 13 is fine. I think 12 is kind of like the sweet spot, pay-per-view nights. Like, if you want to do 15, that's fine because we're all going to be, the main card starts at the same time every single time. But if you want to start things at 6 or 630, that's cool.

But the next week to do the same thing is kind of tough. One idea that we think of is like, instead of doing like a 15 fight, fight night on a Saturday, let's do like an 8-fight Friday. Friday night card or like mix it up a little bit. Like let's implant things, some flags on some different days. Like just mix it up a little bit. You know what I mean? Like I'm kind of with you on that.

It's just a lot to ask, especially of you guys to have to prep for 30 fighters. And a lot of, especially in this era, we're getting guys and gals coming in on two, three days notice who were rookies who are coming in for the very first times. And now we're going to, we sort of got to change the playbook, if you will. No, I mean, I remember when we had Wednesday night shows back in the day, that was fun. And I think really enjoyable for a lot of fans, especially when you still. got a card on Saturday. But obviously there are some challenges and budgetary concerns when it comes to putting out

a live event. You can understand why they would do 15 and not eight maybe midweek or on a Thursday or Friday night. And now that we're talking about it, Mick Manard and Sean, probably going to give me fucking 16 fights. So we should probably. Touche, we'll move on. Last year, there was so much controversy around the breakout fighter of the year.

Because our consent, we and I talked about this. Our consensus choice was, was Hamzat Shemayev over Kevin Holland. And I wrote that article, even though I didn't even vote for Hamzot, but I understand why people did. People were calling for my resignation, John, because I picked Hamzaat over Kevin Holland. It was ridiculous. So because of that, we actually switched up to like a rookie of the year category. But for the actual breakout fighter of the year, and I've thought about this a lot and how

it can be interpreted in one's own mind, this might actually be the most interesting year ever for that topic because you could go with a newcomer like a Casey O'Neill or a Manon Fioro or a Bruno Silva. But you could also make the case for Charles Olivaura, for Brandon Moreno, Julianna Pena. You can even make a compelling case for Kamara Usman being the breakout fighter of the year after leaving 2020 is the champion. But leaving the year and after the Mazdaal fight, he had this moniker of being the boring wrestler. And then he goes out there and stops Gilbert Burns. And he knocks Jorge Mazadol unconscious, which is something that just doesn't happen. and then he goes into the fire with Colby Coveington with a really competitive fight.

Who would you say is the actual breakout fighter of the year the way you actually interpret it? Well, right. It's all open to interpretation. It depends what your criteria is and how you define breakthrough, right? Oftentimes, on like the Anakin Florian podcast awards, I might just be looking to give a guy a trophy, right? So if Brandon Moreno doesn't get submission of the year, you know, maybe he becomes my breakthrough fighter of the year, you know, and you make a case sort of around that, you know? But Kamsat Chimae is probably the guy I'm going to settle on. I might have given him the award last year, but he has continued to break through in an exceptional way.

I don't know how many appearances he made this year. I think Sean O'Malley is certainly worthy in that category. I like rookie of the year because it's clearly defined. 2001 they had to have made their UFC debut in that calendar year. And even though Patty Pimblatt and Ian Gary both got tested, you know, I think, again, that rookie of the year can be open to interpretation. Right? Some people can say, how is Ian Gary your, your rookie of the year? And it's like, well, a lot of it has to do with upside, you know, but it has to do with the nature of his win and the

nature of his post-flight interview and what I perceive his upside and his appetite for MMA growth to be. So, yeah, I guess I'll say Kamsat Shimaev. And when you get on the Kamsat train, as you know, everybody's pissed off. So, and Bilal Muhammad could certainly be breaking twice of the year. I actually took off my Bilal T-shirt before this interview because I didn't want to piss anybody off. Kamzachi Maia, breakthrough fighter to the year for 2021. That's so wild, man, because, like, he was such a clear answer last year, and then he just sort of faded away as the sport goes away. He was dealing with horrible bout of COVID, and he just sort of fell off the face of the earth after being so active the year before. And then he just has one fight against Lee

Jing Leung and puts on a performance like that, like picking that man up and just, like talking, having conversations with Dana White while he's got this man hoisted up in the air and then just just runs through him. Like it was just, he might actually be the breakthrough fighter of the air without, with only having one fight. Well, the thing is, if you're asking me, like, what am I, when I did the best of 2020 show for the UFC and we didn't do one this year, but last year when we did one, we all got asked in closing, what's our dream fight in any division for 2022? And at this time of year ago, I said, Kamsatsimae versus Kobe Covington. And now it looks like that might actually happen. It took a while. It didn't happen in the year that I expected

it might happen because of a lot of circumstances. But like that's the dream fight. And as I spin it forward to next year, Comzat and Marab, as I mentioned, you know, these are the athletes that I'm most looking forward to seeing them test themselves against the true divisional elite. And hopefully Marab gets that opportunity because I think he's the candy man for a lot of people at 135 pounds. saying that about Marab for a really, really long time. There's lots of interesting fights for him,

guys like Ricky Simone, etc. You mentioned Colby. And I actually, I spoke with Colby a couple weeks ago. Of course, Colby was being Colby, but he kind of like broke through the gimmick a little bit, and he pitched this idea

of doing like a best of seven series with Kamar Usman. He said they're so closely matched. And even though Usman's up too well on the scorecards, there's people out there who thought Colby won the second fight. And I feel like even now, I mean, Shemayev could change things up pretty quickly, but I think Ushman Covington,

they're the two best Walter weights in the world until something drastically changes. If it's not that one, John, is there like a pairing, a rivalry that you'd love to see some sort of championship series of some kind of the UFC? Like, I know this is a major league baseball, the NBA, and the schedules be damned and all that stuff, but what do you think?

Is there like a certain rivalry right now that you're like, man, I can watch these guys fight every three months and not have to fight anybody else? Well, the next main event that I am charged with calling is Francis and Ganu against Seattle Ghan. And I mean, give me seven of those, right? You know, but yeah, that's interesting coming from Kobe Covington because while I do agree with you that he and Camaro are one and two in the world right now with respect to, you know, Kamsat, ha, and everybody else, right? But you have Leon Edwards, right, who deserves his respect and

at least his opportunity. You have Balal Muhammad who has one loss in his last 12 walks to the Octagon. time to remember the name. If you didn't have these guys with worthy resumes, I can understand why there would be some sort of foundation for a seven game set or even, you know, given Colby a third crack right now. But I think there are big fights out there for Covington and because the cover does not bear at all, I'd like to see Leon get a crack if I'm being honest, you know, and I think Leon probably will be next. Yeah, it'd be kind of a shame at this point. Unless like Usman's just going to, going to just sit out for an extended period of time and spend time with his family, which is activist as he's been, I would have no issue with that at all. And if the UFC just wanted to

throw an interim title out there just basically as a number one contender fight and you did like Leon versus Shamiya, I'd be fine with that as long as there's a belt attached and he guarantees him that we'll fight after that. Yeah, no, people get so bent out of shape about interim titles. I agree with you. Sometimes it's just a placeholder and not that big a deal. The Seattle gone thing, notwithstanding and love the way that, you know, but in certain situations, is not a huge deal. But I think Kumar will be back and we shall see. But a lot of good things ahead at 70 for sure. This was a really interesting year for the commentary unit as well, because, I mean, you know this. There's all the Joe Rogan questions that you still have to answer, I'm sure.

You saw the pre-fight sort of drama between Dominic Cruz and DC. I'm sure you love to talk about that. But at the same time, we saw some new faces on the studio desk. You mentioned Bala Muhammad. We saw Laura Sanko get her shot on the contender series as a commentator. Hopefully we get to see her on an actual broadcast for the UFC in 2022. But I'm curious sitting alongside and even watching when you can, who you thought grew the most from like a commentary standpoint in 2021 from a broadcasting perspective. All the guys, D.C. Felder, Cruz, Bisbing, they've all made strides from the previous year in their own way. But who did you see this year that was like, boom?

This guy took such a big leap forward as a professional broadcaster. You know, that's a great question, and it's hard for me to single out a man or a woman. You know, a quick rip, I would say certainly I have said to Laura Sanko that all she needs is an opportunity on a UFC fight night. And I think she will shine and I think she will become a staple. Anthony Smith comes to mind. You know, I remember coming across him calling fights when I was watching like Jason Whitfield. And I was like, man, this guy's good. Like Anthony Lionheart Smith should be calling fights.

And then I got a chance to work with him on the ESPN desk. and I just think he's sensational and a great sort of juxtaposition counterplay with Shail Sunnan. So I thought Lionheart really emerged. Certainly nice to see Angela Hill and Bala Muhammad get their opportunities. You know, Chale Sonan remains just special. You know, people ask, man, how do you call 15 fights and go up and do the post show afterwards? Chale Sonnen is how. Chale Sonin's energy is how. So I can go on all day. You know, Daniel Cormier prepares more than he's given credit. That's for sure. Dominic Cruz, one of my best friends in the world. excited for him to get back on a microphone.

Felders my boy, you know, Rogan, on and on it goes. You know, I love all these men and women. And, you know, as much as I enjoyed Brian Stan, you know, or Kenny Florian as my primary broadcast partner back in the day, I've sort of wrapped my head and my goodwill around the fact that I'll probably have 25 different combinations when all said and done. And I'm okay with that. Yeah, Michael Kiesa is really good, too.

Oh, Kiesa. Kiesa, hopefully he gets a chance to call fights for sure. Jesus, how could I leave out Michael Kies? You're going to get me in trouble. No, Kiesz is a stud, absolutely, and is just rabid in terms of his interest in MMA, which we love. Yeah, I actually think, I think Paul Felder was always a natural at it. Like, he went in there and just such a brilliant mind. But I think this year, like, he broke through.

Like, he broke the wall. It was just like, he's comfortable. He's got his own style now. Like, you could have just thrown him in there on a. days notice and he would have done just fine. But now I feel like the confidence is there. I feel like he's flowing well. He's got good camarader with everybody. I feel like everybody has their own strength in that booth. Every combination is different. But I think Paul is, I think this was the year of Paul Felder in terms of broadcasting. Yeah. And I think part of the reason he broke through as you're

sort of putting it is because he leaned into the comedy a little bit and just leaned into being himself. And part of that is just repetitions. You know, if you go back and watch the first fight, that Dominic Cruz called or Daniel Cormier called, you know, I remember rehearsing walks and hotel rooms with these guys, you know, as they had some anxiety about those first repetitions, you know, and so much of it is about reps and just finding yourself and finding your voice, you know, I don't want to go back to 2012 and listen to my first UFC telecast. Never mind, my Bellator calls in 2009. Thankfully, that promotion has seemingly purged all of my audio, But, you know, it doesn't sound great, Michael, you know?

So, yeah, I think Paul really came into his own. And he's a funny prick when he wants to be. I hope he continues to let it rip. Love the calling out the USA chant moment during Bala Muhammad's fight with Stephen Thompson. That was tremendous stuff. Oh, yeah. I love when he gets hostile. It's great.

It's so great. A few last things. I appreciate the time, as always. What's the most intriguing question you have for the UFC in 2022, whether it's division or, But you give me the arms here. What is it? What is it? I mean, tell the people.

People bang on me and, you know, me and Dana because they think there's some agenda with Hamzachimaya. Lars is going by what we've seen with our own eyes. You know, my big question was how many times could he make 170 pounds? You know, was he long for this division? And even though the weight cut was a little bit dicey, you know, I have more conviction now in his ability to make the weight than I did before. I just do.

And it seems like his coaches have him of a singular mind that he is chasing welterweight contention and not going to be dicking around at middleweight, you know? So yeah, my burning question is Hamzaa Chimaab as elite as he seems to be, as strong and dangerous as he seems to be. And can he work himself into a fight with a guy in Kamar Usman who's something like 15 and O'No in the UFC and one of the greatest, if not the greatest of all time? So that's sort of at the tip of my tongue right now. Bannam wait, very excited to see that.

You know, it's crazy that Max Holloway has not been a champion for all this time. So I'm excited to see him in Volcanovsky fight for a third time. Alex obviously has taken it to a whole new level. Adasanya Whitaker, too. I can't wait, bro. I cannot wait. But comes out to the burning question for me. Why have they not booked this Shemai of Neil Magni fight?

Like, what is going on here? Neil Magny has been screaming from the rooftops for like 18 months. give me Shemayev give him to me and everyone keeps saying oh no one wants to fight this guy he's been saying it for like 18 months give me him he's still saying it and Shamiyev's calling back at him like why have we made this fight is it just we think he's a top like we just got throw him in there with the top five guy at this point like I get that if that's where you're going with this but he's calling for it why don't we just give it to him can I plead the fifth can I plead the fifth no I don't know why he hasn't hasn't gotten the fight I mean you know I kind of felt like if Balaal after

meeting Stephen Wonderboy Thompson the way he did, had gotten on the mic, and instead of maybe called for a title shot or called for other fights, had just ignored the question and looked into the camera and said, Kamzat Chimaya, let me feel how strong you are, bro. Let's go. See in February, five rounds, at altitude or otherwise, let's go. And I think he would have gotten that fight. You know, now he has certainly maximized his time on social media has Muhammad since, but I certainly think that there was a more direct approach to getting that fight. You could ask, why aren't they making that fight? You know, both guys seemingly calling for that fight too.

So clearly they got something going on with Hamzaa Chimayev, and most of the MMA world eagerly anticipates his next matcher. Yes, I agree. I said exactly the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I really wish he took that opportunity then to get in the camera and just be like, Shamiya, let's go. And yeah, we'd probably be talking about him fighting Shamiya, already booked on the books ready to go.

A couple last things, John Madden, man, I feel like every time we talk, like an iconic sports broadcaster passes away either the day before or two days before. Doc Emmerg was the last time we spoke. And now John Madden,

you know, the legends passes away. I didn't even know what a turduckin was until I watched John Madden do Thanksgiving football games with Pat Summerall. And of course, he called the first Patriot Super Bowl win in 2001 that just blew me away.

and you question Tom Brady, oh, why are they going for this? They should just go, and then they kick the field, go and win the game. Like John Madden, the video game, everything. How did you react to that? And, you know, were you a big fan of John Madden?

Well, I think we were all deeply saddened, especially because it seemed unexpected. It seemed like even though at 85 years old that he was doing pretty well and it kind of came out of nowhere and was sudden. But what an icon, right? Iconic is probably the appropriate adjective, even though it almost doesn't feel big enough.

Legendary doesn't feel big enough. And certainly as somebody who has now called, you know, or voiced video games for EA sports, you know, that was obviously a big part of my connection to Madden right growing up playing Madden. And then obviously as a commentator, just as good as it gets, you know, and anyone who grew up with the NFL in their homes, the way you did, the way I did in the 1970s and the 1980s and 90s, he was just a fixture. So, no, it's an unquantifiable loss. And again, you know, Bill Belichick, who we talk about and we put on a pedestal, he's all about like, how much do you love football?

Do you love football? That's like the big thing when they're drafting guys. And I'm not sure anybody love football as much as Madden. So, yeah, indelible imprint. And, you know, hopefully my son will have some idea at three years old now, but of what John Madden was all about because he will be missed. That's for sure. And then last question from me, sir. What's, I mean, you've done it all.

I mean, the schedule's been crazy and you're out there doing the damn thing. What's your broadcast resolution for 2022? Like, is there anything you, I mean, you're probably like myself. We're self-critic, our own worst. It's hard to go back and like listen to these things because we pick them apart. But is there something that you feel like you need to improve on or something you want to fix or some goal you want to set for yourself in 2022 from a professional standpoint? Well, it's a good question because one of our producers,

Ritchie asked me recently like, are we challenging you enough, sort of as the lead play-by-play and out, are we challenging you enough? And it made me think about, you know, how challenging these live events are. And every one of them has their unique challenges formatically when it comes to sponsors and different deliveries, different elements off the top of the show that we might be doing. I guess it's just always striving for that perfect show. And certainly, you can argue that for me to go do pro football would be a real way to challenge myself, you know. But I guess for me, it's just that striving for that perfect show because we haven't had one and we haven't necessarily been close. You know what I mean? So there's always room for improvement.

You know, every time we sort of have any sort of traffic jam, like we're trying to have a no hitter, you know, and sometimes I'll joke with the truck when we lose it. You know, I'll be like, we just lost the no hitter voice, you know, and I'll hit that talk back button, you know? So I always tell Kenny Florian, like the hardest thing we have to do is like listen back to ourselves on the podcast if we really want to get better and be more concise. And I guess it's always about being more concise, continuing to, you know, provide the best possible soundtrack for the championship moment specifically and not step on anybody's dick in the process, you know. Yeah, great resolution, John. I appreciate it. This has been too long since being able to do this.

What do we do on, is this the award show week for Anakin Florian? So we just taped an interview with J.C. Santana, strength and conditioning coach for Gilbert Doreno Burns. We're dark next week and the awards will be January 10th in addition to our UFC Fight Night Kater versus Chikaze Preview. So off and running, but we have next week off

and largely because my kids are off. So we're going to go try to not contract COVID-19 in South Florida. Oh yeah, one last thing. Our good friend Ian Parker. Look at this guy. Look at this guy making moves. On ESPN, on these broadcasts, doing shows for UFC cards. What does that happen like for you? I thought about you as soon as I saw that news,

and they couldn't have gone to a much more deserving person than Ian Parker. This is a guy has been grinding away in all facets of MMA for so long and to see him get his opportunity, man. It just feels good. I was very, very happy for the man. Yeah, it's great. You know, our podcast, as humbly as we can say, it has been a launching pad, you know, for handicapping types in the MMA space. And even though that wasn't necessarily Ian's intention, I think largely he wanted to sort of be the third personality on our show, which long ago had held down. But yeah, I feel great for him. Obviously, he's a sharp MMA handicapper and ESPN got a good one for sure. John, appreciate you very much. Enjoy the rest of your time with the family on this break.

And happy New Year, man. Looking forward to seeing you back behind the microphone in 2020, my man. Always good to catch up with you, man. It actually gets my gears going a little bit. So we will see you in a few weeks from Anaheim, California, brother. Just incredible stuff there from John Anick. I can talk to that guy for three, four, five, six hours easily about MMA and combat sports. About life. About broadcasting. Him and I are both big broadcasting geeks.

Both came from the radio side of things. John has just been crushing it. I couldn't be happier for that guy. And it's funny. I remember being in Burlington, Massachusetts, I don't remember what year it was, but I remember listening to John Anick on AM 1510. There's a studio in Burlington, I think it was called The Zone. I'm not really sure.

But it was an AM radio station. I was a big fan of Sean McDonough, who does a lot of stuff for ESPN. Used to be the local play-by-play voice for the Boston Red Sox. And Sean McDonough had a show on that station. And I remember John Annick's voice being on there, doing some different things. So it's crazy to think back all these years later and to see where he's at right now. So big thank you to John Anna for coming in and recapping 2021, getting us ready for 2022.

He is all aboard the Hamzat Shemayef Hype train like a lot of other people are. And I am all aboard the BTL championship finale train because that is the plan for next week. Jedmishu versus Phoenix Carnivali, looking forward to that. I don't really know we're going to talk about, but because there's no event until January 15th when Giga Chikaze and Calvin Cater do battle on the first UFC event of the year. And then it's onwards to UFC 270 in Anaheim. The main event for that one. Francis and Gano defending his heavyweight title against his former teammate, Cyril Gahn.

What a fight that's going to be. And we'll find some things to talk about in debate. As this MMA news cycle continues to just go crazy all the time, there's never a shortage of news. And we will have that for you right here next week, hopefully, on between the links. So once again, everybody, thank you for checking up the show. Not just this week, but throughout the year. It's one of my favorite shows to do.

anytime I can get behind this microphone and hit record is a lot of fun. And I was going through this. And I don't know why I decided to do this the other day, but I hosted almost 260 podcasts this year, whether it be just the regular shows, the pre-shows, pre-fight shows, the post-fight shows, the Q&A's, because there's another like 40 or 50 right there. Reaction videos, just all sorts of crazinesses. What a year it has been. I'm very much looking forward to 2022.

and all the different challenges and different things that we're going to be able to do and look forward to sharing all of that with all of you. So until next week, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to Between the Links. We'll see you next week. Good night, everybody. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.