MMA Fighting - BTL | Sean Strickland is Champ Again! Plus, UFC 328 Fallout, Rousey vs. Carano

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

UFC 328 is in the books, and it was capped off by another upset championship win by Sean Strickland as he defeated Khamzat Chimaev to regain the UFC middleweight title. With so much being discussed in the aftermath of the fight on both sides, what's the biggest lingering question as it relates to Strickland and Chimaev, as well as the 185-pound division? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses Strickland's big win over Chimaev, where Strickland's all-time greatness stands in the division, and what's next for both fighters. Additionally, topics may include the rest of the storylines from UFC 328, Joshua Van's stoppage win over Tatsuro Taira in the co-main event to retain the flyweight title, Saturday's Rousey vs. Carano card headlined by Ronda Rousey vs. Gina Carano, Nate Diaz vs. Mike Perry, what would be a success for the event, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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From the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you. to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. It's always great when we can hop on this program and there's a lot to talk about.

And we certainly have a lot to talk about. Sean Strickland is the UFC middleweight champion once again. UFC 328 is in the books. We have the return of Ronda Rousey and Gina Carrano and Nate Diaz and Mike Perry MVP MMA on Netflix coming up on Saturday. The UFC's back at the world's most famous meta apex on Saturday as well

with the damn good main event, Arnold Allen versus Melkee Costa. And there's just a lot going on right now. So thank you for joining us. And joining me didn't think this is going to happen, but out of nowhere, it is happening. The one and only, Mr. No Gray area himself. Jed Bishu was here. On his day off, I was actually

I'll explain what I was going to do, but I'm happier here anyways, Jed. No whiteboard. You just weren't ready for all of this, were you? I was not ready for all of this. You know, it's my day off and I was going to take it off. And then last night, I was working the Rousey Carrano open workouts. I haven't done an open workout in a long time, Mike.

I forgot how silly they are. Very, very, very silly. And I was just like, you know, I could talk about this stuff. Like, we're going to do a preview show. I suspect to talk tomorrow where we will, I think, probably mostly talk about Rousy Carrano stuff and then maybe, you know, touch on the UFC. But I suspect we will get some questions. questions is a hangover from UOC 328.

I finished up all of my writing about that last night as well. And I was like, yeah, I can talk about more of this. I've got got new thoughts and stuff. And I've got a few hours until I'm going to get fit for clubs, like a nice fitting. And so I've got a few hours to kill and thought I'd come hang out with you, fine folk. Well, we are glad you're here.

So up until like 30 minutes ago, my plan was I was going to pull the old the old audible I was going to do the BTL intro and say the iconic voice and then I was going to say no it doesn't feel right and then we're going to turn it into heck of a morning we're going to ESPN the Ocho this shit up in here and we'll save that for another time had the had the music ready and everything like went way back into the archives to find it but I'm glad you're here makes my life easier because of course the wife schedules work to be done in the house right as this is going on so that doorbell could ring in any second so just be prepared if jet has to ride solo for a second

so it makes my job i'm here yes and we appreciate that so okay let's go to you guys that's what this is all about we got i'm sure you guys have ufc 328 thoughts maybe you have MVP talk uh thoughts as well we got pGA championship going on right now watch bryson Shambo, tap the tapiest putt of all time, and it went 5,000 feet past the hole. Just felt like one of us. The only thing I've seen this morning, and it was deeply funny. I've watched that clip. I should have forgot the PGA was on.

I remember last weekend talking about it, and I just forgot that, like, it's Thursday, so we're firing the opening round. So I didn't have anything on until one of my friends fired that clip into the group chat, and I was like, nice. So LazyBet is throwing out some spectacular television. anniversaries. Today marks 28 years since the series finale of Seinfeld. Also 28 years since Gina Krona last fought. And also 29 years since the series finale of Coach.

I actually watched, I rewatch that clip of like the final scene of them all being themselves. And Jerry Van Dyke, who is on, who's one of the funny coach on the program, refused to leave the set. He's like, until a guy in a suit shows up and tells me that it's over, I don't believe you. And then a guy showed up at a suit jacket was like, we're done. He goes like, that's not a suit because he's wearing jeans. And then the lights go out and that's how the show ends. Coach was an underrated, underrated classic.

I have definitely seen some of Coach. I could not speak to it. I've seen all of Seinfeld, of course. But coach was a little before me, I believe. Yeah. More lazy bed. According to John Martin, Jed, you're, I don't maybe is your boss or soon to be boss over at the college, soon to be fights.

We're colleagues. We're all. We're all equal playing fields over at fights. Dakota Ditchville will be fighting this summer, but not for a title. Okay. Yeah. That's especially silly because, so yesterday they announced Shemil Guseyev taking on Thad Gene for the revocated

welterweight belt, which is a guy, this just happens. They can't really control it. I think Shemil Guseyiv will be the. first fighter in history to fight for a vacant belt, the same vacant belt, twice in a matter of six months, because he just lost a Ramzan Kurmerkadov, uh, Kurama Kermakumatov, sorry, not whatever the hell I just said. And then Ramadan vacated and now he's right back in it against that gene. And in that announcement, they said this will be the second of three weekends in a row of PFL championship action. So weekend before is the Kostelevon, Stenis, Johnny Ellis.

ReMatch. So a third bout is coming. And in my head, I was like, oh, we're going to do Dakota Dichiva, you know, for the PFL women's flyway belt. And maybe it'll be, you know, the fight everyone has been talking about since that's happened of like Dichiva versus Karmouche, but I guess not. No. Karmouche is also booked and also not fighting for a belt, even though she was like.

the Bellator champion and and then everyone else got to like defend or fight for some sort of PFL belt as Bellator champs and Liz never got that opportunity she just had to go through the seasons and it was like that belt never I forgot that Carmuch is booked against Arrucho

in San Diego next month yeah ludicrous so I guess the winner of that's gonna do the face off with Dakota and yeah but that's still not for a belt so say and also would they can they make that that's at the end of June like could they still fight this summer? Could they fight Dakota? It seems like Dakota's going to fight somebody else in the summer. Yeah. So maybe that'll be, they're probably going to hold that until the end of the year.

That'll be like some sort of, some sort of mega event. So good for, I wish them the best. Cecil People says, Mike's still coping about Homs out losing. I don't understand that question at all, honestly. Didn't really have a dog in the fight. I just did a 35 minute interview with his opponent's head coach talking about that. So, yeah, I don't know where that's coming from. Didn't have a dog in the fight. It's about to not be coming anymore.

Yeah. I need everyone in the chat to understand. I did a lot of this on onto the next one on Sunday while I tuned in. I am taking an iron fist to our chat from here on out. Don't get on my bad side for even noble reasons. I will just remove you. I'm not doing it. I'm done being nice.

Everyone better speak glowingly. You don't have to compliment us. But if you speak of us in negative terms, you get in the gate. Or if you just lie. Lying's okay. We'll make the Meat Rocket exception because that man is a gimmick. It's a great gimmick. But, you know, he's also constantly on things.

nice so everybody just watch your toes out there watch where you're stepping because it's a new day uh average joe art uh shout out uh how many events is MVP need to hold before they create an MVP mMA title for one or more weight classes that's pretty good question pretty good question um 10 i don't think that's what would happen i think that i think they will create a title once they feel that there's a sustainability to this, right? Like, they have been, to their credit, right? Nikita said Jake Paul, everybody has been very cautious about this, stating, hey, we want to disrupt the industry, do this,

but they're not coming out and be like, we're going to immediately compete with the UFC. They're hinting at that in other ways, but they're also very clear, like, we're not putting on 10 events a year, right? We are going to put, I think Nikisa's words were when we feel we can put events worthy of our brand, right? Like when they can put a big event on.

And there aren't that many tools outside of the USC for them to do this with right now. And so I think this first few events will be, you know, Rhonda and Gina. I wrote this week, I think we have a chance. I think there's a pretty decent chance. The smart money says no, but I think Rhonda will fight again for them because her intentionality. here is to build something competitive with the UFC to some extent, and that's just probably going to require her to fight again, right, because there just are so few other stars. So I don't think we'll get it in the second or third event, but once they feel like,

okay, we've got people signed to some real contracts here, we feel comfortable that we have the infrastructure and enough of a talent base to put on six events a year. We can attach some belts here, but I don't think, I mean, look at this one. There are no belts online and it's not really pertinent to have them online. I think this is what we're looking at for the foreseeable future with MVP MMA. Yeah, I don't think you need belts. You really don't. Unless you want to do fun belts.

You can do fun belts. I don't mind that. We love fun belts. Yeah, I don't think they need to do with like the undisputed MVP flyway championship of the world. I think they should also get rid of belts. and just do crowns. Like let's make crowns. Make crowns a thing, you know?

Like, school a belt. Or a trophy. Like, MVP, like, typically the MVP award is a trophy. Just give them a trophy. They should just give trophies anyway. Like, Pride used to do trophies for Grand Prix and just thing. Like, it's just fun to give somebody something in recognition of an accomplishment. So I'm fully on board with trophies.

But nobody wears belts. Like, these aren't belts that are useful. Like, it's not even like a big belt buckle you could wear. wear out in public or like just give them a crown like they're the king of whatever weight class or thing give him a crown it crown their asses mike crown them yeah the fighters themselves don't even take care of the belts do you see that video that we posted of sean strickland oh yeah that was incredible where he is like yeah this is a replica i gotta go dig the real one out of my closet where i broke it he broke it in his closet it's super funny uh yeah shout out to eric nixick

for sending me that video so we could post it uh pretty pretty crazy stuff so A lot of MVP questions about, let's go with this one. Cosmo has the increase in marketing for the MVP card made the public more or less interested in the card. So I got to say, I don't think, whatever marketing strategy they had here, I don't think it's been a good one. They, there was more, because we talked about that press conference in New York that absolutely did not need to happen. It was one of the all-time worst press conferences I've ever seen. it just, I don't know if it was the personalities or it just took too long. I don't know.

It was just one of those things were just like, I came out of that feeling, yeah, we didn't have to do this. Could have just kept doing promos and putting out vlogs and that was enough. I feel like that was like overkill. And then the other side I see people saying like, oh, now I'm not seeing anything about it. There's like no buzz for it. I'm not seeing anything, especially last week during UFC 328. So how do you feel the marketing has been for this card, especially over the last

month or so. I think the second presser was bad. I think that I understand it, right? And you can't really see that it's going to be bad, I think, from their perspective,

because they hadn't done a presser with Mike Perry and A. Diaz. And so it was like, all right, let's get all of them together. And then the, I mean, the,

the fundamental thing is that press conferences aren't interesting. They just aren't. Like, open workouts really aren't interesting. It's more of a thing to do.

that is more of a public event for people to attend, right? Like, so they can be close to fighters, you know, do that sort of thing. But like oppressor is ostensibly built to sell a fight, right? But most of them aren't compelling. And especially in this case, there's no heat on any of these fights interpersonally, right? Like that Rhonda is beefing with the UFC.

Gina just wants to be famous. Mike Perry, like, clearly wishes that Nate Diaz would start something. but he respects Nate too much to start something. Nate is a 40-year-old man and pretty clearly is past the point where he's trying to do that unless you come to him with that sort of animosity. Francis has never been fire on the microphone. And like even with his greatest rival in John Jones or whatever, he barely says anything notable.

And Philippinez is just happy to be there. So like these aren't the kind of people that you put a microphone in front of them for this purpose is going to get something. They would have just straight up been better served by letting Rhonda cook. And I know people dislike Rhonda or whatever, but I will say, I think sending her on like a pretty fun, like a pretty widespread media tour, I think has been successful this past couple of weeks, just to at least keep it as a relevant thing in the sphere. Also, there is getting to be a piece of this that the MMA fans just hate Ronda still.

both deserved and undeserved, right? Like, we would take a lot to unpack how the MMA universe views Ronda Rousey because Ronda was really never beloved in MMA anyway. She was beloved outside of MMA. And that's sort of the dichotomy here. Now, outside of MMA fans don't watch the sport anymore. They have been pushed out of watching MMA. And especially the sorts of people who were largely Ronda Rousey fans prior

have not exclusively, but in a general sense, been moved away from the target audience of MMA anyway because of the UFC's hard lean into politics. And so there are a number of factors here working to make this a little bit weird. And I don't think their presser has helped. I think if there was some heat somewhere, it would add a little bit. But ultimately, I think it's going to be okay because we're going to get a press conference this tonight. It's probably not going to be that interesting, right?

But Ronda will give you some fiery quotes about some of the people who have spoken out about her. And that will at least keep this at the forefront, right? This will be in people's minds. And people won't tune in on Saturday because they want to see Ronda Rousey fight Gina Krono in this grudge match. But that's not what Rhonda is setting up here. It's not what they are working for.

That's not the tension at play. But they will. tune in Saturday because these are famous people and it is incredibly easy to watch. Like that's it. Like that's that is the value proposition of this is everybody has Netflix. These are super famous people. It will cost you nothing to tune in and watch this. And I, that's still just going to pull numbers for them in a way that like it doesn't

really matter. It would be better if they had something to sell, but this is enough. I think the presser will kind of help a little bit because you're going to see the personalities from the undercar. and there are some who have big-ass personalities that you really didn't get to see. There are some that went off during the workout scrums that they were doing.

And that's like the issue of having a press conference the day after that. Is that like what, again, and Sean Strickland brought this up at UFC 328 when he's doing like his 8,000 scrum. She's like, what else are you going to ask me that you haven't asked me yet? And that's kind of been the tough part about, I mean, look, if you're a casual sports viewer,

seeing the Ronda media tours, and there's been many of them, like, is like, oh, okay, it's just depending on what you like and what you watch, like, it's a reminder. For us, like, in the MMA space, they're all the same. Like, it's, like, literally the same interview, every single one is exactly the same questions, exactly the same topics. It's all the same. So, like, for us, we learn nothing. Why would there be anything different, though? Is because, like, when you're doing, when you are building towards a fight, right, and you have this long runway, all the initial questions will be the same. And then as you continue to do media, it is the narrative of what has come before.

It is a reaction to, well, Rhonda said this. And, you know, Rhonda said that Hunter Campbell is a piece of shit. And, you know, Kayla Harrison says Rhonda Rousey should be grateful of this happened. And this is the back and forth. theoretically in a fight build, it's the two opposing entities that are doing this. And so your next interview is like, well, what about this thing that has happened? Nothing new has happened because these people aren't, they are fighting for money. They are not fighting for anything other than kind of money and relevance here.

And so it's hard to do a lot of media based on that unless something new breaks out because even if it does, like Rhonda said yesterday at the Open Workouts that she intends to use oppressor to fire back at some people that'll be good we'll pull clips from that we'll get engagement people will will notice but at the end of the day she's not firing back at gina carano you know like she's not firing back it's not Sean Strickland's not on the undercard of this that they are at least beefing on the same card right she is going to be firing back at somebody she'll never fight and so it it is it is a weird thing that doesn't draw inherent interest in the Saturday's product But it does keep this relevant.

And again, the value prop is like, if this were a pay-per-view, I don't think people are buying it. Straight up. Like, I think this would actually be quite poorly. But that's, but this is on the biggest platform in the world. And so because it costs nothing, all they have to do is engage the most vague interest or curiosity in you. And you'll tune in and see.

And that's, I think that is what's at play here. And that, I think, again, and we all know this is going to do incredibly well. from a pure viewership standpoint. Yeah, it's going to do millions and millions and millions of live viewers. It's got to be, it's probably going to be the most watch I'm going to end of all time.

I fell a lot. Yeah, and I think you need nine million to do that. If we're mostly, if we're not counting Brazil, because Nikisa, I spoke with him, that interview was going to drop. He brought up that, hey, when Anderson Silva was at the peak of his powers,

you could watch him on Globo for free. And he, obviously, Nikisa was working for the, UFC at the time. So he was quite familiar with those numbers. He was like, yeah, like 60% of Brazil were watching Anderson Silva fight. Like, that's pretty massive numbers right there. So probably bigger than the 8.8 that JDS Kane topped out at. So, but this will do like 9, 10, 11, 12. Like, that's still really good. That's still really good. I think we're at least into doubles. I think it's at least 10. Yeah. I think the presser and the way-ins are going to

you're going to make a difference because one thing you could say about MVP and like the Jake Paul fights is like a lot of the Jake Paul fights have no buzz. The Tyson one was different because everybody knew about it because it was just like oh shit it was Mike Tyson. And obviously the

casual fight audience who knows who Mike is didn't realize that Mike was 60 heading into that fight. So didn't really know what it was. So they got hoodwinked a little bit. But they always, even like the Jake Joshua one like, it was just like, okay, like Anthony's probably going to kill him, but there wasn't a lot of buzz for it.

And then like, they had a good press conference and they had a good face off. And even the Mike Perry fight like got numbers because they were pushing and shoving. Mike ended up slapping Jake in the face and that certainly helps. But we'll see what happens over the next few days. But they got to build some kind of heat, man. Like even if something, a little tiny bit of heat. That's the thing. And if I were Nekisa, Jake Paul, Ronda Rossi, Gina,

Rhonda and Gina aren't going to build heat. They're not. um jean has been sad like really sad to watch frankly for me um ronda as like ronda is at least like fired up and you know not at gina or for the right maybe not even for the right reasons but like she's got energy jina is just like man i'm just so happy to be like it is so clear to me that the reason gina crano wanted this is she she's like the only person who ever actually

got canceled like when we talked about cancel culture nobody really got canceled. Gina did. And then has just not been famous for a long time. And that clearly has like, she doesn't like this. She just wants to be famous again and is giving her an opportunity to do that. But like, it has not been, she has done nothing to help this promotion other than be the name opposite Rousey.

And Rhonda's never going to go with her. So they can't do this. Francis and Fleetlands are not like, Nate is not going to start shit, but it's Nate Diaz. If you start shit, he will be in the shit with you. I respect that Mike Perry doesn't want to fabricate heat and, you know, has genuine respect for Nate Diaz. But someone needs to talk to him and be like, Mike, you just got to do it, man. Like nobody else is going to. You have to be the first through the door. You need to, don't, you don't have to slap Nate, but like, say some shit that's going to get him mad. And so y'all can talk about it. And then you can fight about it.

because otherwise, we're all going to, it's a very strange buddy, buddy affair into this weekend. And again, I think that that's okay for a lot of fights. These are more curiosities than like high-level mixed martial arts. We don't need to fabricate heat, but like, if Mike Perry just says something out of pocket, that's not out of bound. Like, that's just sort of who he is. they need him to do something here because he's the only one who can. Yeah.

And we just released a column whether this is going to be a good or bad event. And I stand by this. Everything that happens between Mike Perry and Nate Diaz is going to dictate the success of this card. If that fight stinks, then the overall consensus of this event is going to stink. Like that fight is going to make or break it to me. Even though it'll be capped off with Ronda probably beating Gina in 45 seconds. that fight is going to determine everything. Because if we look at that and it's just like, man,

those are like two old guys who haven't fought an M.A. in a while and it wasn't fun and it was more sad, then that's the perception of it. Because Nate can swing this whole thing. Anything involving him can swing everything in their favor. So he finds ways to do it every single time he fights. Win or lose, even when he loses to Jake Paul in boxing, it was like, oh, Mike was competitive. Mike, Nate did this and Nate did that and Nate thinks he won.

Oh, some people thought Nate won. Like, he could always find a way to become the story, whether he wins or loses, no matter where he's out of the card. So I think that fight is going to determine a lot here whether this is deemed success or not. So come on, Mike, do something. Just say something. Just be a maniac, man. Just get pissed.

You're two days away from the fight. You don't have to make anything up. Just say you're going to kill him. I'm going to go in there. I'm going to leave you unconscious in the middle of the cage. something like that. Nate just doesn't even care, though. Like, it's going to have to be personal

because at this stage of his life, Nate just is like, whatever, bro. This is a fifth if I don't care. Yeah, and then I'll beat your brother up next. Like, say that. That might do something better, you know? I'm going to take out the whole Diaz family. Boom, one after the other.

You, then Nick, and then whoever else you want to bring. I'll take out your whole team, every single one of them. Then they might be like, all right, let's go. All right. Yeah. Do something. This is a big night. Big night.

It's definitely going to do big numbers, but... It's definitely going to do big numbers, but it would do better if they had just a little bit of spice. Right now, it's too cordial. Mike and Jed, what do you think of the White House fight kits? I honestly thought there were soccer kits when I first saw them, but what are your thoughts on them? My initial thought was,

I'm watching the Mighty Ducks, too. This is Hendricks hockey. That was my takeaway. This is them roller blading after Gordon Bombay's golf cart, getting ready to head to LA for the junior goodwill games. That's what I thought of these fight kits. Not

great. I think they are incredibly boring. They look like soccer kids. I'm not shocked by this, but I will just note again, we're acting like this is not a political event, very obviously is a political

event. Making a bunch of non-American fighters wear gear with the American flag on it is just crass. Like that's just it. Like that's just, it's just, it's just

crass, you know? And so, yeah, you know, it's, I hate all the uniforms. I think every uniform that the UFC does is almost exclusively bad. And the like few were like, ooh, those fight shorts are cool.

It's like, yeah, but also prior to them, mandating you could only wear the most boring fight shorts of all time. Every fighter could do their own shorts. And, you know, we shouldn't, you know, if somebody burns down your house, you don't commend them for putting out the fire. And that is my broad feeling on the uniforms. I think these are, yeah, pretty whatever.

Like the best thing I can say is that they are non-offensive, you know, they're like fine. But it's just not for me. Yeah, I kind of expected more. I mean, like, honestly, if Sean O'Malley is talking shit about the unis, he's like super team UFC. It's not a good, then they're not good. They're not good. Also, like, I don't, look, I'm not here to tell you that this would be like the best outcome, right?

But hold on, I want to pull these uniforms up again. Just to make sure I'm not like totally botching this. let me see the fight kit yeah like they absolutely just look like soccer kits why aren't we doing like apollo creed american flag star spangled shorts like do that for the american fighters you know like people there's an iconography there that people understand and register with not like these straight up do look like team USA like soccer jerseys which is also then super weird they're like poiton and tepuri and goner in them so i think that doing white house kits is dumb like just the core idea is very stupid because these

aren't all fighters who are american and it would just like it would be way cooler if like teporea got had his normal custom shorts uh poiton had his normal custom shorts and justin gaecci got new specialty star spangled shorts to like fight thing like that just better this is just bad I think this is quite a this is a I mean this is just like I these are AI right like somebody in the UFC was like what should we do let's ask chat GPT and it popped out these and they're like yeah let's go like it's just there's no creativity no interest it's boring it's planned it's It's modern UFC. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just very vanilla. Now that it's bad. Like vanilla. You'll eat. Hold on. Hold on. Throw lazy's common up here.

This would have been better. Again, there would still be like. Yeah, I love that. For the pods, they should have modeled after the 92 Dream Team Unity, uni.

Like, again, there's still like the core concept of why are we forcing non-American fighters to wear American ensembles? like that's and then pretending this isn't political that's all very dumb but if you're going to do it at least if you're going to do something stupid do it really well this is super boring and pretty dumb and what when Dana gets asked well do you think anybody will ask dan about the unies and in the backlash of them through in the build to this because i don't think so probably at some point

you think so nobody likes that a press coffers yeah yeah nobody likes these so at some point someone is going to be like, hey, like, why? What was the thought behind having Ilya who has his own custom shorts already and generic red, white, and blue shorts of the American flag on them? And Alex Pereira also has custom shorts. Yes. They won't ask them like, why aren't these cooler,

which is genuinely what the question should be. Like, the, you, I would really like people to start interviewing Dana with the appropriate energy, which is like just, don't, don't act like you, people ask him questions like he's going to give you real answers. Like this is a normal journalist intervieue dichotomy and it's not. So just ask him with the same energy he's going to bring. Because he'll be like, that's stupid or whatever played off. Just like, these are pretty universally shit.

Why are they so bad? Why didn't you do something cooler? And see what he says. You probably won't say anything good. But at least you're trying. Yeah, these things suck. They're just so boring. Yeah.

Regio, I will be interested on timing and pace of the Ronda Rousey Gina Corona card because this is definitely not the type of card people will stay up late for or go out of their way for, et cetera. I don't know if I completely agree with that. I think if you're watching...

I think it won't go out of their way for it, but they don't have to. Yeah, it's easy. But like once you start it and you get to the... Once you get to... Because JDS and the JDS fight is going to end very, very quickly. So that's...

I mean, that that fight will... will be over real fast. Almost all of them are going to end quickly. That fights got really quickly. And then we get to the three big ones. Francis is going to win in a minute. Perry and Diaz, I think, is going to go long. It is.

It might go five. That'll be just super fun, so it's fine. And then Ron is going to win in a second. So, like, I think people will just, will last through it. But again, the pacing, the pacing is got to be interesting. Because MVP's pacing has not been great with these events.

They go to the desk for way too long, way more often. And I don't know if you saw the news we dropped yesterday. The broadcast team for this event, there's some heavy hitters. They get John Jones on the desk. They got Kane Velasquez on the analyst desk. Katzengano, like Tyron Woodley, they're bringing a lot of people up there who are going to get a lot of time to talk about these fights. Woodley is like the best person of that list, which is saying something. Yeah.

I think they've made a number of mistakes already in the build to this. I think we talked about this when they were first setting up the card, and they didn't listen. I think that they're fundamentally their biggest issue. And what I think on Sunday morning, you know, when people are talking about this, the casual observer is going to be like, why is that so long? Because the casual observer does not give a shit about the undercard. and that is not a disrespect to the undercard fighters, many of whom I actually like,

but they just don't care about them. And this is an event for casual viewers, for people who have Netflix and are kind of curious. I promise you, I will bet you anything you would like to bet. Whoever wants to DM me, we can throw money down. I guarantee you sometime on Saturday.

One or more of my friends are going to text me, hey, when are the big fights actually happening? I turned it's 6 p.m. I turned it on and something named Chris Avila is fighting. When are the people I give a shit about fighting? But that will be on Netflix so it'll be easy to determine somehow. Or that was like I don't know they'll be fighting at X, Y, or Z. Yeah, 11 fights.

The main card's five fights. The last five fights and that's not. Yeah. And they're like, I don't give a shit about Junior DeSantos. They're like, who's this? 11 fights is too many fights for this card. At most, it should have been 10. It reasonably should have been 8, right? Like, this is a, here, we've got the three fights you want. Here are some other young, interesting people.

If you are tuning in early, you can watch Saladin Parnas. You can watch for Minakuta. Like, these are things that can happen. But I like David McGowan. I think he's a decent prospect. Who the fuck cares about him fighting Alberta Morales? What is the purpose of that shit here? Eileen Pereira is Poetan's sister and not very good at fighting.

What are we doing? Like, I get it. Chris Avila is, you got to give him a fight because you gave one to Nate, and that's just how that works. But like, I think there's too much going on here. And I think that one of the big criticisms will be, I just wanted to watch Ronda Rousey fight, and why am I having to watch five other fights before then or whatever?

This is going to be a learning experience. No doubt about it. I wish it was promoted differently. I really do. But it is what it is. You know, the big thing, that I asked a keystep, I was like, what are you guys hoping to accomplish here? And the biggest thing for him was like, I want to know how big MMA is.

I don't know how big it is. Like it's, it works for the UFC dude, you know. Yeah. But it, but again, like, we don't even know how big it is. Like, there are certain events that, that captivate. But putting big, like, this is the first time we're, we're, that a platform like this is hosting an MMA card with like big names that cross over outside of our, little universe like people this is past the mom test i've had people ask me about this event

multiple times over the last couple of weeks and usually that's a good sign that the viewership will be good but his thing is like how big is it because you throw you put if you put ufc 328 on netflix it would have done friggin gigantic numbers would have done so big with the way that that that was promoted and presented whether people liked it or not there was a lot of buzz behind ufc 328 without question there was a lot of buzz i don't know know how the apparently if you if you believe dave melzer when it comes to numbers uh 328 did not do great on paramount which was kind of surprising honestly um nacho librae on sunday did better numbers uh i thought that was kind of funny but dave is kind of like the guy you go to for that i'm

really surprised by that um that zufa bot like it was like at tone a little better than zufa boxing essentially was the report i don't want to get it totally wrong but nach Libre did better on Paramount Plus than UFC 328, which I don't know if that's true. I don't know if I believe that. Great film. It is a great film. It's actually just a fine film, but you know. But yeah, I'm curious.

If this does like, if this does six million, is this a, is this a fail? Yeah, I think so. Does it have to do nine for it to be a success? Yes. Okay. Anything less than nine's a fail. Yeah, I think so. Okay.

It has to. What if it's... Realistically, I think anything less than 10, like, probably is a fail, but nine, at least you can say, this is the most watching event of all time, and you can feel good about that, but... Yeah, anything less than that, I think it's pretty bad. Yeah. Does I see Ken Shamrock's going to be on the MP broadcast?

Out of left field? I don't think so. He's not on the broadcast. No, he's on... He's on the A&E Rivals... Correct. I'm going to solo screen you for a second, Mike. Okay.

He's on the UFC Rivals show. Mario Lopez is going to sit in a roundtable with CM Punk Ken Shamrock, Michael Bisbing, and I don't know, Misha Tate was the other one? Misha Tate was the other one, correct? Misha Tate was the other one, okay. So they're going to do what they did with WWE and just talk about the great rivalries.

It's really bad. That's a bad group of people. I think that's a terrible show. God. Jadis said on Helwadi that he was happy with his opponent because he was going to stand and bang with him. Shouldn't someone tell Junior to just take him down Austin Lane? style.

This could be a deep fake from JDS, that he wants Rebellis to believe that they are going to do this, then he is going to shoot. If JDS comes out and immediately starts chucking them mitts, he's going to die shortly afterward. Yep. And then I'm going to be sad that I bet on him.

Oh, you have a bet on JDS? It's like almost plus 300. I was like, dude, if he just tackles him, he wins. One tackle probably doesn't. It's like if you just tackle him, you win. And surely you're smart enough to do that. And then I felt like immediately bad about that bet. Yeah, last night when he did like, you know, his open workout and was not doing like a ton and was kind of breathing a little heavy when he was doing his interview.

I was like, yeah, he's a 40 year old man. Just tackle him, please. If you just tackle him, you win. But we'll see. Bold Corps is Hamzat wrestling Dylan Danis and R.A.F. Yes. at least that's on the poster. I think that's absolutely going to happen.

I do too. I will be there. I know that Dylan Danes has like a history of not making it to events. He's already wrestling an R.R.R. before in a match that he knew who's going to lose. He frankly did better against Colby Covington than people expected. I also think part of that is Colby being a little bit of a showman there. But he wasn't like totally out of his depth.

He will lose like authoritatively to Homsop. But what does he care? He's not a wrestler. Like, it's fine for him to lose to Hamza. It doesn't matter. Dude, he's going to get a bag to get, just get tackled four times in the first round. And then the, honestly, he might not even get tackled four times.

He might get tackled like Legale East and rolled and be done. Yeah. But like, it doesn't matter. It's, you know, this will not hurt. He is not remotely a wrestler and losing to, you know, Hamzaa Chamaev, who is substantially bigger than him, et cetera. It's fine. He'll do it.

Danis wants the views. he's going to get him in a big way with this one. Like the press conference between those two is probably going to get pretty nasty. So, yeah, that's going to happen. And both guys are going to make a lot of money for not a lot of time. So let's see.

The hottest club right now is MVP MMA. It's got everything, Prospects, Legends, casual draws, hardcore delights, Nate Diaz, smoking dives, and Kenny Florian. Is Kenny Florian involved in this shit? He's the color commentator. Not a fan? No.

Why do we recycle the same like seven people? It's Maro and Kenny. Yeah, why do we recycle the same seven people? Marlowe at this point is at least an institution. I don't. I vacillate back and forth on whether I like Maro because sometimes he's just, it's, you know, he reminds me of my childhood or whatever.

But like, why? Why are we recycling the same human beings? Just do something. I don't know. Like, I liked Big Moe being the ring announcer yesterday. I like Big Mo. He's a new name. It's kind of fun.

Try something new. And he's good. Yeah, certainly not bad. There are towns of people out there that aren't on every broadcast. Yeah. There just is. There are more than seven people who can do broadcasting on this sport. And certainly you just don't need to, like, Kenny Florian was maybe a good choice 15 years ago, right?

Like a decade ago. In the ensuing 15 years, at least four people. have emerged in media who could do this instead. Like why? We're just running back the same dudes over and over again, man. Duke, very curious, how the production for this MVP MMA card is going to be, let's hope no concerts,

anthems, or freak shows between fights. No. I don't we're going to get concerts or anthems, but I mean, we're going to get anthems. We're going to get concerts or freak shows, but we're going to get anthems, I bet, at least for the big three.

You're going to get a million backstage interviews. Yeah. You're going to be at the desk a billion. going to be a better production a better produced belator show is what i think like the pacing will be very similar to like a belator show uh just going back to the desk after every single fight

for extended periods of time and that's just what it is like that's just what the business has become and outside of the rafs of the world who will just go right to the next thing nobody wants nobody else wants to do that so plus i'm sure there's advertisers and stuff of that nature that are going to be a part of this as well that need to make their money. So there you go. What else do we have here?

If Carano gets wrecked quick, will it derail her quest for fame or does it even matter if she's competitive? It matters if she's competitive. Her getting wrecked quick won't. She can't lose anything by getting wrecked quick. If she's competitive, it opens some doors, right? Like if she wins somehow or is just like just has a good fight with with Rhonda. I think that might open the door for her to do another one. I don't know.

I'm not entirely sure her level of interest in doing another one. I think she would fight again if that was the vessel to being famous again. Genuinely, like I, that is what I believe with all my heart is at play here for Gina Krono. She was famous. She made some choices that led to her not being famous. I don't know if she regrets those choices or not, but those choices were made, and now she's not famous and she wants to be famous again. I don't think Hollywood is going to come calling after this, you know,

win or lose competitive or not competitive. But if, you know, being competitive opens up a door to do another one of these against a Holly home or something, right? Like that's big names. You could do something like that. then maybe you just put enough distance between you and the past that they reach back out, that somebody's like, hey, we could put, Gina can be the fifth lead in a Disney Plus show or whatever. Like, I think if she can, if they call, you know, if somebody's like, let's do a real movie and not some daily wire, wire garbage, she would immediately go do that. But those offers aren't here.

Truly, they're not there because she's not talented. Like, she's not very good at acting. She's not an awful actress, but she's not a very good one. And so there's no reason to do it. But if she can just keep being in a public position, being, you know, fine in those, then maybe that'll come. And so maybe being competitive gets her another fight and that helps. I don't think not, you know, getting rolled over by Rhonda matters that much for her in general.

Yeah. Polly Holm is probably awaiting the winner of this fight would be my guess. I know we're on to say this is my last one, but this is probably promotional 101. Let's do the swerve, so to speak. If she goes out, like, again, if she is positioning herself as the quote, Dana White of the promotion,

and her job is to get eyeballs on the sport, her fighting Holly Holman in a rematch would be gigantic. The best things she can do, yeah. Yeah, it's the biggest, I mean, it's the biggest fight they can realistically make right now with, like, what's available to them. They cannot make a bigger fight right now. I know Holly's going to be boxing,

but they're bringing that name up over and over again. So something tells me Holly's probably going to be there before she heads to El Paso to box Stephanie Ann again and yeah.

Masters, Mahaya falling off the car is probably the fight hardcore MMA fans may have tuned in for, I think. Now that's falling off, I do think it could be

a blow to that demographic. But that's a prelim fight anyways, I think. I don't know if it was a main card fight, but it wasn't. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Yeah.

I mean, I actually think this fight is better. I do too. I mean, this fight is better. I think Mikea would have murdered Marais. Um, and I'm,

Mahi actually does have like a really pretty big following. So you probably are actually losing a little bit of interest, at least from some subset of the thing, but not in a way that's super meaningful. And again, I think this is a better fight, actually, so it's fine. Should they have done Sean Wheelock and Jimmy Smith? Sean Wheelock is actually part of the broadcast team. I do think that would be better.

Yeah. Yeah, I just don't know. If I On the broadcast So if you're a Sean Welock fan You will hear him As long as fights don't get finished In the first round

You'll hear a lot from Sean Wheelock The guys Many of you maybe weren't fans I don't know You know what was cool One day they got rid of Goldie And Goldie had been the voice of the UFC forever And a young bald man

named John Anick stepped in And he had done work in other sports before But was for rush to this and was just a professional and very good at his job. There is a whole world of people and the whole chunk of those people do broadcasting. If I were running in a combat sports promotion, MMA promotion, like I think the first thing I would do, I would go into our big war room right on my whiteboard. What does the UFC do that people hate? We're going to do the opposite. it. I've talked about that before on this program and others.

Like, that would be one of my guiding principles. Like, what are the things that the UFC does that people hate? We are going to differentiate ourselves by not doing those things. John Martin, shout out, we're collie, you know, we love you. You going on Ariel's show and being like, I see both sides of the AI argument. I don't want to write. It's like, you could just, like, that's one businessman speak. Nobody in the history of the world has ever liked businessman speak.

So just don't ever fucking do it again. like in a public scenario you want to do that in boardroom meeting you're fine real human beings cannot stand corporate lingo and that's all that was you reflexively you should be like yeah you know you see is a really big industry i don't know why they aren't going to pay artists to do something dynamic and interesting and instead just use AI and then if that's a line you do it yourself okay whatever like you come to that bridge when you cross it but like do the opposite of the thing that the UFC does that makes people mad that would be guiding principle number one. And guiding principle number two, right under that, would be do something new. I am not trying

to rehash Bellator MMMA like a big fat, dumbass. That failed not doing that. I'm not being GFL and bringing Mike Goldberg back. That failed. I'm not doing that. I don't need to work with the castoffs and retreads of days gone by. There's eight billion people in the world. Find four new ones, throw them on a desk, what happens. Love that. It's just like it's so, it feels so like cowardly

and just like, it feels so corporate in general of like, yeah, well, we'll go with the devil we know. Like, why? You were massive underdogs. Like, when you are an underdog in the tournament, right, the NCAA tournament, how do underdogs win? How do Cinderella stories

happen? They don't happen because, oh, we're just, our players are going to line up better than theirs. We're going to win over. No, it's like, all right, we're going to, we're going to gamble. We're going to play a full court press. We're going to try and get some steals, create chaos, jack up a million threes and hope they go. Like you do different shit, not bring back Kenny fucking Florian. I don't get it.

Wow. I do agree. I mean, I didn't expect MVP to do this, but like, again, and I said this after the most, like, The Game Bread show, like, you got to, you got to bring in some fresh peeps. Do something fun. Like, they should do a desk too of some kind, but just like, talk about the fights. Like, do a pre-show. Like, do 15 minutes before the show starts with some fresh faces.

Put it over. You know? I don't know. It's okay to be professional at some of these events. It's okay. It's totally okay. Even if your product is Gamebred MMA, which I love. I mean, I love it.

it. It's okay to have a professional broadcast. Dirty boxing can do the same thing. Like these, I know you're underground and you're edgy, but you could do, you could still be professional. The broadcast is professional. No one's going to be like, oh, the fights are great, but the broadcast is terrible. No one's going to say that. No one's going to say that.

People put dirty boxing over for the fights. You know what they put over is Michael Hanson the ring announcer. He's great. That's, we can be better at this. Just try something new. Yeah. anything other than the thing that if Kenny Floyd was super

good at his job he'd still be in the UFC he would still be doing that in the UFC he's not so why are you taking their leftovers they're not good leftovers they're leftovers that are left over from years and years ago why why why just put me in a room with

to ques of daring for 10 fucking minutes I swear to God I would make his product so much better I like Kenny I know I'm sorry I like Kenny maybe it's just the Boston in me who supports his fellow Bastodians.

Look, I will also acknowledge that Kenny, when Kenny plagiarized a dude and then acted like he didn't, I was like, cool, well, I don't ever have to consider you a real person again. And I haven't. That's fair. Average Joe, what's the best case in error to make MVP a viable option, but not real competition outside of the UFC? And what's the worst case in error to make this maybe not one and done, but close?

I think viewership's the answer probably both these questions but what's the EU? Viewership definitely feels like the answer to the second question, right? Like if this thing just bottoms out and does like $5 million it's very bad.

Yeah, it's pretty bad. That might not be one and done but I mean five million might actually just be one and done. I'm like, yep, that didn't work. Moving on. You know, like if you can't do with what they've got on this,

if you can't do 10 million or even like close, man, like, why are you going to try and do something else, right? So I think that's definitely to the second part of the answer. And I mean, yeah, probably for the first part as well. But outside of viewership, I do think if this just feels good, if the vibe is just good, right? Like if on Saturday we're watching it, we're having fun. because the reality is what is Mike currently right now I know that nothing is a genuine competitor but like in the world where we're talking about the possibility like what is the number two to the UFC in combat sports

ooh just in all of combat sports yeah just like the what feels like the second biggest thing going on in combat sports other than like boxing writ large but that's bifurcated into a bunch of different things. I mean, for a minute, the ring stuff was probably number two, just because they were putting on, like, the massive fights. I'm not happy about it.

Yeah, but like set aside boxing. Remove boxing from this because boxing is too many entities. Fair enough, fair enough. Right now, number, like, if I'm being realistic in terms of like excitement and positivity and what generates good vibes, people can call me what you want. RIFs number two.

I love your energy. the answer is incorrect and it's it's bkfc BKFC has been BKFC has been like an entity that draws interest and is have they though they have like they have in the past but like what was the last time they've generated something and was like we can never miss this

nobody in the history of sport of the sport other than the UFC does that no RIF's not doing that either we missed it RIF shit all the time BKF has been a proven commodity that people watch and are interested in. They aren't, you know, don't love it, but it is there. That's really the best any other combat sport can hope to do. The UFC is a monopoly. It owns too much space to give up. But the reason that RAF and BKFC succeed to the extent that they do is because they just feel good. Like they feel like we're having a good time, right? And so even if the numbers, like if, look, if the numbers on Saturday is 30 million, okay, they're already doing something. If the numbers aren't,

quite that but we leave the event being like man had a good time we're talking about it well like everyone's like I'd watch another one that's enough to also be like you're never going to be a competitor nobody's a competitor it does not exist but something else that's out there

that maybe has like a real life ahead of it if we can just feel good about it yeah I mean look competitors competitor is one thing alternative alternative is another

that's that's the thing that's what they want to be and nikisa and jake and ron and all them they are not coming on saying like hey dana white hey ufc hey hunder we're coming for that ass like we're we're on our way we're going to be there we're going to be the number one promotion they're not saying that they're just like we want to be the second option we want to be a place where fighters can go if they get cut from the ufc it's it's not even really competition it's just it's the the cliche with all this stuff the rising tides raise all boats that's what the hope of this is for for a lot of people and in my biggest stance on this entire card is why just first of all why judge before it happens you can

say what you want about the buildup and all that stuff but if you're truly a fan of the sport and you want the sport to grow and evolve from the place that it's in right now why would you not want this event to do 35 million viewers why do you want to see this fail why do you want this to be bad. We should all want this to be awesome. Just like we keep saying, like, we want PFL to be great. We don't want to come on here and be like, ah, another PFL show that nobody knew about. We would rather be like, man, PFL's crushing it right now. They just signed this big new TV deal. All the fights are great. We have champions. They're making all the fights we want to see. We want to be able to say that. We want, like, we should all want this to succeed. Whether you like

the card or not, we should all want this to succeed. So we just have another place for these fighters to go. possibly to make more money. Again, that's just what it is to me. Like, I want more things to watch. I want competition, even though it's not really competition. Even if it's just like, here, we're battling for number two. Just give me something. Give us something else.

And even if you make a dent and you give the UFC a little something to think about, is that a bad thing? That only makes the UFC better. Come on. Best time of pro wrestling was the 90s, the attitude era. WCW and WWW are neck and neck They were all trying to make each other better There's nothing wrong with another competitor coming in here

Even if you're a team UFC You should still want this to do well Because that'll make the UFC better And that's all we want So that's just my take on it But I like it It's a good take Yeah

Chef Nerdmon If Hulk was still alive and attached to RAF Would people reject it For his controversies or being attached to WWE They have come a long way one style moitai is needed here. I have no idea on whether Hulk Hogan would hurt or harm the product.

My assumption is that it wouldn't really make a difference, but I don't know that for a fact. Because, you know, it's not like, I don't, REF is not like, I would say RAF is less inherently political than the UFC has become, but this is also a program that airs on Fox Nation, and is functionally the advert for real American beer, right? This is not some like super, like politically diverse thing going on here.

I just don't, and it hasn't affected it, and I don't think Hulk Hogan would, but, you know, Hulk Hogan also just might say some stuff that might be more of a problem because you give them a microphone and you might say stuff. I think not, though. The one for Antmoitai thing doesn't feel really related to this. But yeah, I mean, I like that.

And so it's only a matter of time before the UFC does something similar. It's actually a really good question. And I guess my answer would be it depends on how the exposure of Hulk would be. If Hulk is just, they're bringing them out 12 times a show to do stuff, that's a problem.

That's too much. Now, for the fans in attendance, who are going to these events, if you trot Hulk Hogan out there before the show started, you know, to pose and do the, the ear thing and let me tell you something, brother and the,

you know, fans cheer for a minute. That's, that's one thing. But if there, he's all over the broadcast and it's just all Hulk all the time. Like, he's the face of the company.

I think that would have been a problem. So, but I don't know if they would have done that or not. And, you know, people thought maybe Eric Vischoff could be that guy, but you never see Eric, ever on television.

unless it's for some big moment, like the hero of the event thing that they did a couple of events ago. So what is happening? What did I miss? I'm looking at the MVP broadcast team that Ronda Rossi called the dream team. What on Twitter?

Just the graphic. Yep, that's okay. I'm not going to enjoy this broadcast is what I'm learning. Yeah. I mean, what else? Let's pull it up because we, I think we were the first ones to report this.

And then they officially announced it like not that long after. So if you guys missed what the broadcast team is, it's Maro and Kenny. They're the commentators. Sibley Skulles will be the Megan O'Leavy, the reporter. She's been totally fine this week. Yep, completely agree. Sean Wheelock's the rules and scoring guy.

So he'll be the guy. I scored a 10-9 for this person or. And Sean's great in that role. Even with the boxing events, he does a great job. El Duncan will be hosting the analyst desk. I don't know much about her, so I'm fine. She's on ESPN for a while. She's good in that role.

Taryn Woodley will be on the desk. Ariel Hwani will be on the desk. So those are the three mainstays. And then throughout the main card, it will be John Jones showing up, which could be interesting. Kane Velasquez showing up. And Katzengano. That's the broadcast team.

I don't. Why are El Duncan and Aaron? on the desk. Those are the same role. They're the same person. Like, they're filling the same role. I'm not sure why they're both on the analyst desk.

I think Ariel is, I think L, like if we're comparing it to BTL, L is B and you are, like you'll be the take giver, so to speak. Because that was not going to be able to give takes, but Ariel can give takes on this.

At least tell stories and stuff like that. and Elkin guide the conversation, drive the ship, so to speak. Which I don't mind that. I don't mind that. Would not be the choice I'd be making. I also, I mean, John is new, so I guess there's that. I have no idea if that's going to work or not. John's just going to, they'll probably bring John in right before the Francis fight.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't, I think that's, that's just, like, maybe it's, at best, that's just going to be annoying, is my guess. He's going to talk about fighting Francis. He's never going to fight Francis. I don't, that doesn't strike. John is not this kind of personality who I think makes good media when the media is not about himself. Let's put it that way. Kane Velas is fresh off of jail.

Okay. Don't probably pop. I bet he's, he's on the desk immediately. as soon as the broadcast starts, he's on the desk. Right for the JDS fight. Maybe he'll be okay at it. I don't know. Again, these aren't choices I would have made. Katzenegano is almost certainly being brought in as like,

oh, look, she fought people, you know, involved in this main event. Maybe it should be okay. I don't know. We'll see. Wouldn't be the choice. I think if I were in charge of this, I am not certain I would have picked any of these 10 people. Maybe a couple of them, but it seems weird to me.

I do like Woodley in the spot. I think, of all these choices, Woodley is the best choice to make. Yeah. Duke, I'm surprised Dana didn't push back against Rhonda's comments about the UFC. He's not going to. Ronda's never made this about Dana. Rhonda has specifically not made this about Dana. At some point, he will get asked directly about it.

And like, Rhonda is talking mad shit about Hunter Campbell. What's up? And he'll just be like, you know, fighters are crazy. They get, like, I guarantee you his answer would be like, look, you know, I love Rhonda, but fighters are crazy. And sometimes they take perceived slights and they blow them out of proportion. I don't think anything like that happened. Wish are the best.

Hunter's great. I've known Hunter a long time. used to be my lawyer, great guy. George is getting upset. I love all the Seinfeld characters that are hopping on in here. Why is the UFC against crossovers to Zufa boxing seems like a missed opportunity?

I completely agree with you, by the way, on this. Especially if you're just doing events at the freaking Apex. Yeah, I don't get it. Why can't we do Adrian Yonnas, Rob Font 2 in a boxing match? Like, I'd watch the hell out of that. That'd be awesome.

Like, we can get Dustin Pori versus Nate Diaz in a boxing match for Zufa boxing. That would be the most watched Zufa boxing event ever. So I'm going to say that there are two reasons. One, there's probably some like sort of contractual workarounds that you'd have to do, and it's just like not quite worth it. But two, I think that I think we will get there.

But Dana and TKO, their idea was we're going to take over boxing. Like Zouvoboxing is going to take over boxing. And they may. I'm not willing to count them out. I said from Jump Street that while boxing is not doing anything that it should to prevent this from happening, I think that everyone, including many people who I greatly respect in this industry, grossly, grossly overest or underestimated the difference between taking over a nascent sport that had no culture, history, or infrastructure, like the UFC did with MMA, right?

like this is a sport that's not been around for more than like 35 years and taking over that as opposed to taking over a sport with almost 200 years of culture and infrastructure and history and just like the general gym culture of boxing of like you if you are at a gym and then somebody from zoo for boxing like i'll give you three thousand dollars to fight and win and that will be thing they'll be like no like why fuck would i do that you You know, like they have pulled some high-end talent. That talent is not making them money. Like, Jaiopatai is not a value prop for them.

He's not a positive integer in their plus minus sheets or whatever. And they haven't even been able to pull, like, the biggest name. They pulled some mid-level guys, right? I don't think they want to use U of C fighters because they want this to be a boxing thing. as they continue to not really generate like a lot of traction with Zufa boxing, which they haven't. We're not covering any Zufa boxing. I think we covered the first one just to see and we haven't really covered any sense.

I think they will eventually turn to like, okay, maybe we can do some of this as a supplement to this while we're trying to get something going here. Because they have, they put on a lot of events. Nobody cares. It's like nobody cares about this product. And at some point, they're going to have to try and figure out a way to make people care. Why? They're making $7.7 billion just putting it on their platform.

They don't have to do anything. They have to make people care about this if they want to continue doing this. The UFC is what makes them the money. Whatever the Zufo boxing deal that they got is, that deal is you did a deal with the UFC. It's not like that. They wouldn't generate that on their own. It's part of the package. though. Yeah, it's all part of the package, but at some point, you don't want all, like,

everything to be a dead weight. It, it, they will want this. And they do. And the ultimate end point of controlling boxing is super lucrative, but you have to get this off the ground to do that. And they are not. If, if this is purely an ego thing for TKO, then they could lose money with it forever. But they, you know, they see an opportunity to maybe monopolize boxing one day. they are not well on their way to doing that. And so I think that in the not too distant future, we will get some, you know, MMA fighters doing ZUFA boxing,

just, again, not as like the core of their business model, but just as a supplement to the thing they're going as they continue to try to build this. Throw up super chat here. Philip, can Ariel call himself non-biased on the MVP payroll? So to be clear, as far as I know, he's not on the MVP payroll. He's paid directly by Netflix

and ESPN when he does those events. So there you go. There really isn't such a thing as non-biased, right? Like everybody has biases. Now you would like those biases to be, you know, lesser or more, you know, depending on the thing.

The thing has, for me, in instances like this has just always been transparency, right? Like it's, if you are biased, but you are transparent about your bias, there are still like some lines that probably should be. Like I still, to this day, it is one of the more infuriating things about the UFC. Allowing Daniel Cormier to call fights for fighters that he coaches is dumb. I think that's just straight dumb. There's no reason to do it.

It would not be difficult to be like, DC, you're not going to be on the desk for this as a some fight. You know, like that's same time before, haven't they? I don't. I think he skipped, he withdrew to physically corner a fighter before. Or is it Felder who did that? Felder may have done that too. But like the UFC does not, Felder did it because somebody needed a corner who like did,

they didn't have a corner. And Felder was like, I'll corner you or whatever, if that memory serves. There's no reason to do it. You can. And I'm not saying that it's deeply improprietist or whatever, but like you can just avoid it all. But be like, Daniel, this is an Islam. Mockerchief fight card, you're not going to be on the call for this.

That's okay. Like, it is, that is the standard operating journalistic procedure in other sports. Kirk Herb Street refuses to do picks before college game day for games he is calling because it's just not a hard thing to not do. But if you are at least just like super transparent about it, that's better. And like, you know, hey, I'm getting paid by Netflix to do this. you know, this is what it is. But nobody is without bias.

We all have them. Like, you just need to own up to them. Take a few more, and then we'll get on out of here. Hank Hill, I think that's right. I think Felder pulled out of commentary to corner, cornered, cornered Jared Gordon. That's, yep, 100%. Because Gordon's corner, like, didn't show or something.

Yep, that's what it was. That's what it was. I thought he put, yeah, maybe. Yeah, I think that's what happened. I've, like, yeah, there's something else, too, were like, I don't know if it's Brady you fought or somebody like that. I mean, they should. If something that happens, you should.

If you have a deep interpersonal relationship with somebody, you should. Like, if Dan Hardy were to be in the corner for his wife, like to be on the booth for his wife's fight, that would be, that's silly. It's just like don't, again, there are more than five people that can do this job. You don't have to use

the ones who may have, you know, a biased relationship here. You can just be like, hey, Daniel's going to step out of the booth for this one, right? Like, I have, Mike, you have been to plenty of events, right? And at every event when we do the like, we're applying for press credentials, there is the disclaimer that's like, you are not allowed to actively root for one or more fighters. That is a thing that is strictly prohibited.

This is broad press appeal to anything. I have gone to an event and removed myself from press row and walked into the stands because I had a rooting interest in a fighter. I was like, I'm not, it is just not, it is not a huge ask, and the fact that they don't care is deeply frustrating to me. Michael, what if Philippe Lins goes and chokes Francis unconscious? It would be funny as hell. Funny as hell.

Great for him. Like, it would be, you know, it's not Seth Petrazzelli, but it's Seth Petrazzellie's, like, you know, like, distant cousin. It would be incredibly funny. Philippe Blin's did this. God. What a month this could be, man. If Philippe Lins had any genuinely,

and somebody, somebody clip this and send it to whoever is associated with Philippe Lins, if you have any sense of history or humor, you will dye a pink strip into your hair for Saturday night. Because that would be the funniest thing, man. Golly.

Is that, would that be the funniest outcome? No. What's funnier? Because I think mostly people would just be really shocked, but this wouldn't be like a White House thing where it's a huge deal. Like, oh, okay, France hadn't fought in two years. He's 40. Really shocking. But also, people turned a little bit against Francis, but a subset of the MMA population would laugh the hardest. But that same subset would also laugh a lot harder. And I think we all would laugh a lot harder. if somehow Gina Krono having not fought for 17 years knocked out Ronda Rousey.

That's probably the funniest outcome. Can you imagine what the post fight show would be if that was the outcome? She just cold. She hits her. Oh, my God. Jesus. Wild. Man.

See? We just, in the last two minutes, we just gave you everything you need. Perhaps we get the funny outcome on Saturday. By the way, Francis looks Not to, I mean, he's always been like jacked But he looks like Sfelt He lost a ton of weight, man Looks in great shape

Looks like a like a different person So we'll see what happens Shocked, no questions about UFC Vegas 117 Not a single one I'm not shocked by that The Carded is buns A couple of good fights, Cardin's buns The Ardard Island fights great

Arnaud and Mucky The main event is great I'm honestly the co-main event I'm pretty into as well a couple of other things on the card but yeah, that card is buns. Yeah. Does anybody got to watch it?

I mean, I will have it on my second screen. Yes. Or maybe my first. I'm not sure if I'm working either the Netflix card. Yeah, I don't know. I actually have no idea what we're doing Saturday. I was not on the meeting yesterday, so I don't know what's happening. Neither was I, so I don't know either.

Oh, okay. I truly don't know if we're doing, I don't know if we're doing a watch party. I have no idea. I have no idea. Oh, this is, this is, we. have to end on this question because it's the greatest question we've gotten in weeks. I was going to pull this one. George got upset.

Jed, how do you balance the Chandler hate versus the humor of seeing him win? Oh, this, wow, at the White House. This is quite the question. Oh, it's actually an easy question to answer. It's way funnier if Michael Chandler wins. And so I'm rooting for it because I can hate to him better if he is still winning fights. right like at some point me hating a guy who's lost 10 in a row is sad right you know like you want to

you want to be cagey with your hate and while it is fun to dance on the graves of your opponents at some point it's just like all right man like you know let this go like if if you were a tony ferguson hater and still getting like hyped up when he was on a six fight seven fight losing streak People just look at you weird. Like, man, maybe go outside. Touch the ground somewhere. So it actually is better for me if Chandler wins because it adds a renewable energy to my hatred for him.

That would be quite funny. And it would be incredibly funny. And he gets a microphone in his face, which you love the most. Look, I think he's going to lose. I think they have underestimated his actual opportunity to win this fight, which is real. He just needs to tackle. this man twice.

And he can do that. Master says he asked a couple questions about this weekend's card. What do you got? Fire him real quick. One comment with both the questions. We'll talk about this week's card tomorrow

at the preview show. I mean, we'll probably also spend most of the time talking about the like 90% of the time if we're being honest. So, all right. Well, where's, I'm not hearing the music yet

from the producer. We haven't spoken about Arnold Allen versus Kosti yet. Give you a thought. Oh, we're going to do that tomorrow. break down that fight for a lot. I mean, it's a good fight. It's a really good fight.

What's the bet on that fight? What do you got? I ultimately was going to bet Crosbyn't he's an underdog and I do think five-round fight is more dynamic. Allen might be dropping off a little bit. But I really like on Alan

and so I'm just not going to bet against him. I'm betting all vibes lately. It's been going incredibly well financially and betting with my brain has done nothing but fail me for the last like year. So I'm just, you know, betting on the people I like or not betting against him if I think they might lose.

I spoke with Arnold Allen earlier this week. You'll get to see that conversation. He's very fun. Very angry. Like, he wasn't angry in the interview, but you could tell he's a little angry and he wants to take that into the octagon. But hey, two Arnold Allen fights in 2026

and it's only May. So that's good. I mean, we've watched this dude miss entire years. He's a little frustrated with the UFC. I think this is, is this two years in a row? He's fought twice in, in the first six months. Look at him. Just getting out there. Well, we'll talk more about that tomorrow. Back here next week. Good night, everybody. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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