MMA Fighting - BTL Thanksgiving Edition | Arman Tsarukyan Shines, Who's Next For Islam Makhahev, More

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Arman Tsarukyan staked his claim as the top lightweight contender in the UFC with a spectacular performance against Dan Hooker in the main event of UFC Qatar this past Saturday, and he wants his chance at Ilia Topuria and his world title. Will the performance, and timing, work out for Tsarukyan, or will he have to watch Paddy Pimblett fight for the gold? On a special Thanksgiving week edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses where Tsarukyan goes from his big win, and how the lightweight division may shake out heading into 2026. Additionally, topics may include who should be next for welterweight champ Islam Makhachev after Ian Machado Garry defeated Belal Muhammad to cap off moving month for the surging contenders, reports of Kayla Harrison vs. Amanda Nunes being the frontrunner to headline the UFC's first big numbered event on Paramount, the Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua press conference, and much more. Plus, what we're thankful for in the world of MMA and combat sports. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses

have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. I'm Neelai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems.

And one thing we keep hearing about over and over again is that generative AI is causing a lot of problems in schools. There are a lot of people out there, including many of the listeners of the show who email us, who are worried about the obvious problem, students using chat GPT to cheat on assignments. But when our team went and poked at the story, they found that the issues in education with AI go a lot deeper, to the very philosophy of education itself. If this technology becomes more ubiquitous, we'll have courses created by AI, graded by AI, with submissions from students, absolutely generated by AI.

So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in higher-ed? This episode is presented by Salesforce. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA fighting studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, Mike. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Tuesday to us all.

We warned you last week. You might go a little earlier. We might have to mix things up because we can't have a live show on Thanksgiving. But we didn't want to leave you hanging. We were thinking of different options and we decided, you know what? We're going live for the peeps

just a couple of days before we gobble, gobble on the Thanksgiving turkey, the mashed potatoes, the stuffing. the cranberry sauce and all the fix-ins. And we welcome me to the program. Q&A, what we're thankful for. I know I'm thankful for all of you guys, but we'll talk about what we're thankful for

in the world of MMA later on in the program. But joining me to answer your questions, a man that I am thankful for as a colleague and a friend, Mr. No Gray area himself, the hot take kid, the one and only, Jed Bishu from Mammating.com. How are you, sir? I'm good.

I'm adjusting my camera because I really, I had it all set up wrong. That was very sweet. I'm very thankful for you as well, Mike. And I'm thankful for everybody that is tuning in. I'm not thankful for my dry erase marker, which, as you can see, is running out of juice. That's supposed to say, happy Thanksgiving.

Yeah, I'm excited to talk about things. I'm excited for Thanksgiving. I'm cooking this year. When we're done here, I'm going to, I'm fresh out of the gym, so I don't smell great. But fortunately, there's no smell of it. here. So I will take a shower and then head to my local grocer and pick up the accoutrema as I embark on this journey on Wednesday evening and Thursday day. All right. So what are we making? All the

goods. We're doing the full, the full boy. I may have, it depends how many people are going to join me. And so we're sort of figuring out the finer details, but be doing a bird. mashed potatoes, Brussels, Brussels sprouts, stuffing, slash dressing, and then I may or may not make a pie, depending on if somebody else wants to make a pie, sort of that kind of potluckish plan, but I'll do the big items because I've done them before. And birds tough, it's not like that tough, but it's the trickiest of them. Everything else is very easy. I'm very excited.

I love Thanksgiving. We'll be heading to my parents' house in Florida. We'll probably drive over Thanksgiving morning to a birthday. morning to avoid all the major traffic because I'm gonna suck I do that move all the time I've done that move many a time it's a great plan yes we'll go there have some food play a little family golf on Friday with the wife and my mom and my son and my dad it's gonna be a great time so let's get to the questions fireman in there of course super chatters get to the front of the line let's start here Josephosa have they heard anything about UFC 324 James Lynch did a video

on his YouTube saying that area was reporting that the front runner is Kayla versus Amanda James also heard maybe Alex Pereira versus Carlos Oldberg so I had heard the Pereira Ulberg rumor last week

I reached out to people who would obviously know the exact answer I will pull it up for you just for context I want to make sure that I'm not speaking out of turn it's 100% bullshit

was the actual answer so there you have it That is not in the plans from as far as I'm concerned. And if you're going to do Kayla v. Amanda on that card, why would you put Alex Pereira on that card? It makes no sense. Kayla, Amanda is a great main event. It doesn't need really another star above it.

Like that could be the main event. You could do another co-main event. I don't think you need Pereira on that card if you could do Kayla versus Amanda. So I don't think Pereira versus Oldberg will be happening in January for as far as I know. Pereira is still a little dinged up and he wants to fight John Jones on the White House card like that's that's what he's looking at right now he's going to be out for a few months he wants to fight John Jones in June so I would be

incredibly shocked if that fight happens in January I'll be shocked if that fight happens at all before the White House card so just throwing that out from what I've heard but your thoughts Jed because it seems pretty apparent based on everything we've seen interviews from this man Illiates Pori is not fighting in January that he's not fighting

so bad he kind of did so your thoughts he boxed us so bad that ends the idea maybe Kayla Harrison versus Amanda Nunes could be the big fight for the

kickoff of the paramount relationship and the numbered events I mean I believe Ariel's reporting on it and so I there's some level that makes sense Kayla has given some interviews in the past month saying that she is targeting sort of a January return and then fighting on the White House Guard as the only American champion. That's not technically true anymore. But, you know, as one of the few American champions. So she was saying, I'd like to fight in January. And I forget

who that was with. I think maybe it was on Mosphidal's new podcast that she was with him and was like, I'm trying to come back soon. And it would be a game. against, she didn't say Amanda's name, but heavily implied that that fight was in discussions for early in 2025. And so that makes sense. Sucks for her. Means her Thanksgiving and Christmas are going to blow because she doesn't get to eat food. But like that, I think that fight does make some sense. I have not really, had not really considered it much because it just feels like that would have been announced because you should give Kayla Harrison as much time as possible to make sure she's making that weight, unless they're going to do something fun and just make it

move the bantam weight division to 140 pounds or something, which would be cool, but they're not going to do that. So I think they'll be fine. I'm with you. There's no reason to do Alex on that fight. Mike, you know what they should do as the co-main event for that fight that I think would make the most sense in the world? Waldo Cortez-Cortez-Costa should not fight in December and he should fight in January against anybody. I think he, you know, I know he wants to fight in December. It's a little too soon. Why don't we just have him fight as the co-main event against a rematch Pavlovich. That's fine. Whatever you want to do. But don't let the active dude fight at U.S. 323. I spoke with Waldo Crises Acosta last night, as a matter of fact. That interview

would be coming on the NBA Fighting YouTube channel over the next few days. The UFC is already discussing him fighting December 13th. They're trying to figure it out. And at this point, they, and the UFC kind of agrees with this, apparently, from what they're telling me. The opponent does not matter. They just want to see him do the thing. So it does, just line him up. Waldo said, like, I was like, you know what you should do, Waldo?

You should just go to Vegas and, like, make a video. It could be like old school pro wrestling where people would go to the wrestling shows and the rest would be like, I'll give a thousand. It could be like the Spider-Man situation. with Toby McGuire as the the human spider and he can win like a bunch of money like anybody does not matter anybody who lives in Vegas and can fight at heavyweight should take the opportunity to fight Waldo Cortez Acosta if we're going to do this which we shouldn't we should absolutely somebody good needs to Curtis Blades fight him because he will win and he won't get a bonus and that'll

be fine if Curtis Blades fights him but if he gets a six if he he's the the fighter to do the sit like it'll be both very silly that he got six fights in a year and that this worked out so unbelievably well for you so move him to the co-main event of 324 he's over it's fine uh and you know i do to get back to the topic at hand uh i do think kela amanda is a good enough main to be the first but i don't think that that's a standalone fight for the like broader public like i think that fight will have a little bit of reach outside of the hardcore may fan base but women's in m may in general just doesn't have as much range i know kela is a two-time olympic gold medalist and that gives her some juice and amanda's you know

ostensibly the goat and so like that fight is more than good enough to carry but i do think it needs a little bit of support and so i don't know what would be the support uh it probably wouldn't be a title fight frankly just based on like who's available um unless you could get like jengue lee to turn around quickly and fight mackenzie durn but i don't think they would want to do that so i don't i don't know what would support that because i do think that needs a juicy co-main to go with it to really feel like the first numbered event of the new era i got a great one okay arm and sarukin versus patty pinblit for the interim lightweight title no that's awful one that what are we doing an interim lightweight title for because it's the ufc

that's that no um also i don't want arman to turn around that quickly i think he would still win that fight but like oh he definitely win yeah but like i don't there's no because to to the other the not asked question depurria has effed it like he's punted this because the only way the paddy fight made sense is in january you do the quick turnaround now he's coming out saying i'd like to fight patty pimblit well you should have fought him in january you should have signed on to fight that fight in january months ago and the fact that you didn't because you were either out negotiating yourself or holding out some vain idiotic hope that islam makachev would fight you a welterweight is that was stupid because you don't if if the fight if he's not fighting in january

he's fighting arm on sarukin there is absolutely no world in which that fight can have like Ilya can fight in February or March, and it's not Armin, it would be categorically insane to do it. And so why would Armin fight Patty in January? Like, no, I'll wait, I'll wait a couple months and fight Ilia. Like, that's, I don't think that fight can happen at this point because Ilya turfed it. Like, I do not know what was going on in his head. Don't think it worked out at all. I mean, we'll see. I actually don't, just based on like, just based on some of the welterweight title discussion and some of the reasonings. behind certain fighters fighting in said welterweight title fight i actually think he's it i actually i'm not going to say he's like the front runner not a chance but i don't think he's dead in the water

i think he's not a chance we'll see man i think it is zero percent that he fights for the welterweight belt in his next fight i would i would bet almost anything like on it well it depends what the ufc's going to do here okay and here's here's what i mean by this and i'm going to It'd be the worst title shot ever given by the biggest margin ever. As much as you hate Kamar Usman getting a title shot, which is bad. If Ilya Tabori got a welterweight title shot, it would be the most shameful moment in Cage in the history of this sport. I don't disagree with you on that. But here's why I don't think I'll be out of play.

Because you have to look at this through two lenses, right? One is you think about it from a meritocratic standpoint. You can, there is no world, there is no argument you could ever make that says Kabar Usman should be the meritocratic winner of this conversation. There is literally no argument behind it whatsoever where anyone with a reasonable mind for this business and this sport would listen to that argument. The other argument I hear is, well, Usman's the biggest fight. And the question I have for you, Jed, is how is that possible? Like, what did I, what did I miss over the last five years with Kamar Usman, where he is all of a sudden this bona fide two million pay-per-view selling draw? Because if we look back on history, this man was the B-side for almost his entire championship run outside of the Gilbert Burns fight.

That was the only time he was the A-side. And maybe the first Leon fight, he certainly was the B-side for the rematch. He was the B side for both Colby fights, and he was the B side for both Mossadol fights. When did he become this massive draw? That's what I want to know. So if the UFC is looking at this as a, well, we want to put the biggest fight together

that'll get the most amount of eyeballs on it, I'm telling you right now, Islam Machachev versus Uspin versus Michael Morales, versus Ian Machado Gary versus Shafcott-Rok-Mannoff, any of those names in play right now, there is no difference in how many people are going to watch that fight. Why?

Because Islam Machachev is the ace, He is the star here And people just want to watch him fight and defend the belt It does not matter who his opponent is The only fighter he could face That would move the needle in a significant way Is not Usman It's Ilya

It's Ilya As shameful as that is So if the UFC is looking at How can we make the biggest fight And get the most amount of eyeballs On Islam Makachev's next fight It's Ilya by a mile By a mile

It's definitely not Kamaru Um one Mike Apparently per the chat Your audio is low I pulled up YouTube, you said it okay to me, but they're saying compared to me, your audio is now. So, yeah, maybe juice it up. I fundamentally disagree with a couple of things. I do believe it would be the biggest fight.

I think it would be ridiculous to argue that. I mean, I think Alex Pereira would be the biggest fight, but like, at some point, rationality has to complain. Like, George St. Pierre would be a bigger fight than Kamar Usman, too. But, like, let's live in a world where everything isn't a total carnival. side show um i strongly don't believe like that ilia is a bigger fight to a degree that is like hugely meaningful every like i think there's a wide disconnect in what ilia deporia brings as like an actual draw versus what we think he will and should do because he is very famous certainly in spain he is

very very famous but like i don't think my friends know who Ilya de Perea is. I do not believe he broadly passes the mom test in a way that Connor McGregor did. And I feel like because we want there to be stars and he is going to be a big, big star and is relative to the current iteration of things, a big star. We've just sort of decided he's Connor and he also acts like Connor and is trying to be Connor in almost every possible way. He's not. And so I agree it would be bigger. One, that doesn't really matter anymore that's and that's my that's my point out of the paper views it just doesn't matter that he's bigger um like because it it wouldn't be bigger to such

a degree that it would be necessary and so like the only way it remotely tracks to me is if they feel compelled to do something great like never before done on the white house card which i don't think is correct i don't think it's how they'll feel i also think that, you know, they've got bigger players than Islam and Ilya for the White House card. It, I maybe I am naive. It is possible. I cannot believe that in a lightweight division, which has a clear cut, no bones about it, undeniable number one contender, and a second dude who you absolutely should fight for a myriad of reasons and is currently in the top five, that they would just be like, yeah, we know we let you bail on featherweight where there were multiple guys you should have fought, but we let you bail there because Islam was leaving or whatever, we're going to let you do it again, all 5-7-160 of you go to welterweight when there is also five dudes in play at welterweight.

I cannot believe that they would just throw out any level of common sense. can't believe we're still having this conversation everyone let that fight go if you love something let it go and maybe it will come back to you because it was kind of like it at least had a window i understood it previously i still thought it was being rushed because we were desperate to feel something but it at least made some sense it makes none now let it go if ilia is as good as all of you believe him to be. And I frankly kind of think he might be, too. Prove it.

Don't be like, hey, go, fight him now and hope. Prove it. Beat at least beat Armand Sarukian. At least do that. You should have to beat Patty too and probably one other guy, but at least beat Armand Sarukian. And if Islam is as good as we all believe him to be, defend the belt.

because if Ilya goes up, if they let it happen and he knocks out Islamakachev, which he fucking wouldn't. Like, I, uh, I forget, I don't remember,

it might have been the MK boys. Maybe it was Jack Slack or somebody. I don't remember who was saying it. Like, the history of champ champ fights is actually mostly garbage. Like, uh, Islam versus Volkanowski won is the best of them functionally.

And like the one time it was really, really good. And also, I'm really comfortable saying this now, though I don't, I think people will be furious because they love Alexander Volcanovsky. Yeah, in hindsight, that fight was as good as it was because his Lomachev was not, like, had his worst day ever. And he's still one for one. Like, but that fight was good.

Every other one is mostly garbage. We just saw two of them and they weren't that fun. Like, the same thing is overwhelmingly likely to happen, especially at Welterweight. And if the mirror, like the, the unlikely scenario happens, and Ilya, wins. He's not a real welterweight champion. He's just not. He will have won the belt, which is an accomplishment to some level. But like if Islam can't defend against actual welterweights, he's probably like he was never the best welterweight. And if Ilya goes up and beats him, he's not going to defend against Michael Morales. Like he's not going to do that for like, I am begging everyone to just have some level of patience. Don't be children and demand. your chocolate pudding this moment and earn it. Like, if there is good as we want them to be, when they do fight, it will be that much more meaningful than being like, hey, I don't care that both weight classes need to be defended.

I don't care. Just give me, give me that. Because then when we get in that post show after the White House, and I'm like, man, yeah, it was really predictable that Islam just sat on the small man's ass forever and no one is happy, everyone will be furious. Like, well, I guess we'll go back and do it. And then everything will feel worse. Like, I, I've said this from the very beginning of the Ilya Islam discourse.

I think people are so excited about it and so interested in it because they can only see how special and unique it would be if Ilya wins. And it would be, but it would be less special and less unique if we force it to happen. And the more likely scenario is that it's not. And then we've just turfed a whole bunch of stuff for no reason. Let things be special. Let them organically become this way. And if Iliate Tuporia goes and lights up Armand Saurukin, one, I'll have, like, that'll be, he'll have a much better argument to getting a welterweight title shot.

He still won't have a good one, but it's at least sellable. And two, I'll be interested. interested in like we can all really think about that fight and be like man he's stuffed all of armands take downs and just lit his ass up on the feet it's really a real contest with islamakachev at 170 now just please like grow up like just grow up and let the thing didn't happen and it didn't need to this was not habib versus tony which should have happened for years and the gods conspired against it we were forcing this a little bit and we don't need to keep forcing it. Let it happen if it's going to happen. I promise it'll be okay. And Mike, last thing on this, you know how I know it'll be okay

if we all just can forget about this fight for a little bit? Do you know how I know that that will be true? Powjad. Nobody gave up. Look about it. Earlier this year, at the beginning of the year was the only, it was the only fight that could happen.

If it doesn't happen, the UFC sucks in their garbage. And people, people I respect were like, oh, wow, they're not making Ilya versus Islam. and they're not making Alex versus or John versus Tom. UFC's lost it. And then you know what happened? We got Ilya versus Charles.

There was like, actually this rocks. And we got Islam versus Jack. We're like, actually this rocks because it's okay for us to just enjoy what can and should happen and let this move down the line. It will not be less special a year from now. It will only be more special and actually deserved. I've decided that, and by the way, The, what's funny about the whole Usman thing is, like, Islam has even kind of given up on it. Like, all his interviews now, like, he's not even mentioning Usen's name anymore, which I think is a great call.

So I've landed on what we just saw over these last couple of weeks was not actually the Welterweight Grand Prix. I think we need to do it again with the six remaining guys. Let Islam chill. He's not, he's going to, he's not going to fight till the summer. So we're going to have. He's saying he wants to fight, you know, March before Ramadan, or is it after Ramadan? he was saying earlier he wants to fight in march and then turn around for thing i don't know if that'll actually happen i don't think but i also just don't think he's going to be on the white house card

so yeah i mean even if he headlines international fight week like that's that's that's totally fine but let usman fight chafcott let morales and proches beat the shit out of each other and let's what's even gary doing then gary's fighting jdm yeah okay i don't hate that um i do hate it because you i love that you you just won't let it go like you all are you are a dog on a bone with because it's going to happen because it's going to happen look and i and i and i'm going to throw this out let me throw this let me throw this let me throw this out there right now if kamar usman beat shop got rockmanoff even it is if it is the most boring win i've ever seen i will jump on that post fight show i will not even sit i will raise the the rate the standing

desks as high as possible i will jump up and down and say kamar usman's fighting for the welterweight title i stand by this he's the guy without question usman should get the shot and i don't care how he does it if he beats shop god you will never hear me say usman doesn't deserve it again from that point moving forward until he gets that shot but right now it's silly and every reason behind it is silly there is no you cannot justify this you cannot justify this in any way oh it's the bigger fight He's a bigger star. No, he's not. He is not.

I don't know where you get this information from. He's not. He's been the B side from most of his fights outside of Joaquin Buckley and the first Leon title defense. He was the B side for both Colby fights, both Mazadal fights, and he was the A side for the Gilbert Burns fight because it was just his time.

But that's something. I'm not here to tell you Kamar Usman is a big star. He's known. People know who he is. He's known. He was championed for a long time. I'm, he's a bigger star than Michael Morales is. He's a bigger star than Yamichato Garry is.

Um, I like those are the guys. He's a bigger star than Shafkat is. Like there aren't big stars right now. He's the biggest of the available names. He's the most known of the available names. Maybe. I don't know. Um, I don't, again, that's not by like a lot of degrees here, but like, there's just not who does, I don't,

maybe people know Shafkot because Shafkot had an aura to him or whatever. Yeah. Mike, I got to tell you, I'm the most kind of. I'm confident I've ever been that Shofcott's getting the next title fight I hope I and I would be fine with that. It has been totally fine with that. It has been a dramatic change of the last two weeks of being like Shafcott could get it and we've all forgotten it and it just it feels like everything's breaking because you whatever John Anick says you can't give it to Ian Machado Gary over Shafcott. He just lost and nobody likes him and he's not like he doesn't have like that that's harsh but that's true this isn't even me trying to be mean to Ian Machado Gary like he doesn't have a fan base that will propel you to give him a title fight and there's no like actual friction with Islam to sell it like he's I feel like he's last in line right now I mean he should be over protest but protest at least has people who love him and so like that gives you some build towards it I thought Usman obviously was like the guy they wanted but the response like the backlash

to that has been so clear when Henry Suhudo is tweeting got to do it that like that to me is the canary in the coal mine of oh this isn't happening that's all he's saying henry tweet this yeah like henry's try and if henry's your messenger your message has failed you have lost the message if that's the guy you're choosing so like i i think that that's lost and mostly whenever they sit in a tuesday meeting i think the answer is just so obvious of like what makes sense for all like what fits if you're if it's a puzzle piece at well all these pieces fit so cleanly to me and it's a bunch of fights that if they booked them no one will be mad about people would in general be pretty excited about and are all good it's uh islam

fight chavcott uh it's callos protest and michael morales fight and everybody's stoked about that and it's usman fights gary like and that's you then do a welterweight grand prix or who does it best between those four of protesting and shavcott just fights islam and no Nobody's the odd man out. Nobody's, I mean, I guess technically Gabriel Bonfine, but like he's not in the mix. No.

Morales, like you could throw Morales in right now. Like, he's on a heater. And there's certainly some interest in that fight because of how big he is or whatever. But like, this is a dude that most people found out about last weekend.

You know, like you usually give him a little bit more. I frankly think it would be good to see him fight a dude like Carlos protest to just get a little bit more knowledge of him. Usman could, like if Usman beats Gary, it's like you said, ain't nobody got a question about.

about it. Absolutely. He can fight for a belt. And if Gary wins, it doesn't matter. Shafkot's already got his shot. Gary's the undeniable. So, like, I think it just fits too cleanly. And all the disparate parties were trying to make something else happen because they wanted it for reasons good and bad. You know, you know, I don't, I get why Islam wants it, right? The Hussman fight. There's a very easy win for him. And probably the biggest name. But, like, I think, and I think if Shafkot spoke English or cared about speaking, at all. He would have just been more vocal, and this wouldn't be a conversation. She's like, yeah, Shavcott's going to get it. He beat Ian Machado Gary, who's number two in the UFC

rankings now behind Jack Della. He's undefeated. He had a title fight, and he lost it because Ballal pulled out, not because he pulled out. Like, it's easy. I think this all fits. I wouldn't bet my life, but I think he, in my estimation, he's the frontrunner right now. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but that kind of feels like where the energy is. Well, he will be ready for that time frame, Shafcott, late February, early March. So if Islam doesn't want to fight in March, there you go. So, and look, even, and I've said this too, if the UFC is just hurting for a main event for January and Islam says yes and Usman's the only guy that'll turn around and do it, then I'm okay with it. Other than that, if he's the first phone call, it's ridiculous.

It's awful. It's just ridiculous. A couple of super chats. See Turner says perfect support for the first January page. pay-per-views patty versus gaecchi five rounds that would in fact be a very good support fight if you know a no doubt about it's screwed if he doesn't take that fight if if that fight happens armin is out oh i'm assuming that fight happens because ilia versus armin gets booked and that fight is announced as a number one contender fight for the winner of ilia versus i'm okay if that is the

case but i don't know if gaichi takes that fight without some sort of belt on the line gaiji's not taking that fight unless there's at the minimum a guarantee that if he wins he's fighting for the belt next which frankly if that fight is offered he should take because if he beats Patty he would get he wouldn't need the guarantee but you know negotiate for the guarantee

but I that could be a good support that's not bad thought um but yeah like if that happens it needs to be under the auspice that Armin is fighting Ilya I hope we get that fight Spencer thankful to have the MMA knowledge of boss and Mike

and the booper in my life, rank these MMA legends on how successful they'd be in today's UFC. I'm assuming like when they were in the crimes. That's a really good question. Yeah, that's a really good question. Silva, Fador, Nick Diaz, B.J. Penn. Um,

oh, that's a really good question. I think Anderson's one for me. Oh, maybe Fador. I don't know. I think Fador, because heavyweight is so bad. I think Fado is Fadour in his prime.

Like Curtis Blades would be a handful for him and like Tom, but like he could also just beat Tom. Like that wouldn't shock me if he beat Tom. And Curtis Blades would be tough. Like they're very big dudes, but he's been a career fighting big dudes and heavyweight

is just so bad. Like so bad. That Prime Fader I people don't know and like I get it of all the of all the goats of my you know my like six table that people are like fador I understand that fadour why people don't understand about fadour it's hard to describe how far ahead of every other heavyweight fadour was at his peak

it is as if you dropped george st pierre into ufc eight like he was so much better than every other other heavyweight by a massive massive margin um so i might go fade or because heavyway is really bad um i mean prime anderson would also still do very well at middle weight right like very very well at middle weight um i think it'd be i think it's between those two for me yeah i think i think i'm with you that fate i think it's phaed or anderson yeah those two are the top two i think in my estimation for sure. If this was neutral, I would say Anderson over, but when you're scaling for weight classes, middle weight does have like a lot of dudes. Like, Fuffy Hernandez would be a real problem for Prime Anderson Silva. Yeah. Like, you'd be a real problem for Prime Anderson Silva.

But like at the same time, and like DDP, I think might actually be a problem, but also DDP is DDP. So you never know. The metagame has shifted in a way that really hurts Silva's game in some facets, which could tough uh i think the one that i am i i last two are tough i think nick would be as successful uh i think bj would be not my biggest the problem with bj is

uh he by modern mma standards is a featherweight and perhaps even a bantam weight um like and bj is special and unique and great because it never mattered and BJ fought Leo Machita and did anything. And so he could still have some success, but like BJ pin at welterweight, can you imagine BJ fighting Michael Morales? That would be hilarious. Um, no. And BJ at lightweight, which, you know,

was like, where he's at? I mean, BJ, in my head, I want to be like, BJ could be difficult for Islam at lightweight. No. Um, that's just not reasonable. Um, I think BJ was just too small currently lightweight but it's hard for me to be rational because also as I'm thinking about

I'm like it's pretty possible that BJ beats Charles Olivera I think it's God I think I'm going to go Nick BJ I think I'm going to go

Fador Anderson Nick BJ and not because of like Nick is like the better fighter I just think Nick's personality would get him over a lot more than BJ would be. So I think he would be more successful in like a, you know,

we're over with the fans. Like he is now. Like people don't see Nick for like a decade. And he just shows up and he's super popular and people want to see him. So I think Nick would just be the anti-h hero kind of guy that people would love. And BJ would be like probably a top seven lightweight. The game has just evolved so much that I think, like, Prime BJ would have a, he would have a nightmare of a time against Armin and a lot of those guys.

Like, he might be Charles now. The thing is, Armine would be, I think Prime BJ might even be Prime Charles, but I could see it not. I'm actually, as I'm looking at this, I think I'm even more confident. You make a good argument about Diaz and sort of the cult of personality giving him opportunities. I don't know how that he do very well against most of the current iteration of the top 15 but that's that's the mystery of it yeah I guess because when he's on like when he had good just like his brother when he had good nights there was like no one better I I think he would

do quite poorly against a lot of these dudes um it's a really it's a really good question book him too yeah they would give him they would give him prize fighty type fights I think BJ could be I think I kind of think the answer

is actually hard to know I mean it's hard to know in general but like it sort of feels like BJ and Nick are going to be top 10 dudes and that's sort of where they're at it feels like Anderson might be a little bit higher than top 10 like top five like and Anderson and fatal would be top five guys.

I think that's sort of how I feel is like you could convince me of a lot here. It's a very interesting question, though. Prime BJ versus Ilya Teporia, who wins? I think that fight is more competitive than people think, but I'll go with Ilya. Prime BJ

versus Max all the way. BJ's jab and the fact that his chin is unbelievable would have actually given Ilya some legitimate problems. Prime BJ versus Max. Max's volumes too much. stylistically all there's interesting prime bj versus justin gagey

what a freaking it's current justin gaiti i'll take prime bj get prime versus prime that fight would i'd actually i'll probably pick bj prime ver like even prime versus prime bj could go to the wrestling and if he gets it to the floor he's just it's an ocean of distance between the two of them but i fight kicks

a fight kicks BJ Prime BJ versus Patty Pimbled I'll take Prime BJ versus I think that that's the like that's honest to God that's who I was looking I was like Patty's in the top five of the USC rankings and Prime BJ almost certainly walks him

and I'm going to throw one last wild card at you Prime BJ versus Benoit Santini BJ that'd be fun but like that's the thing Matush Gamrot and BSD both are like really those are like historically the style

matchups that BJ would have thrived on. And so, like, I think he'd be like a top 10, maybe a top five dude. I think Nick would be a top 10, maybe a top five dude. Anderson, same thing. And because there are six good heavyweights, Fador's almost certainly a top five heavyweight. Interesting question here from Lazy Bed. Jed, you're appointed as legal counsel for John Pork in his case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams regarding the 32 MSG brawl.

present us with your defense for chanko's actions there's no nothing happened or there's no charges being filed correct i don't know um also there is uh i mean like if you really want to get into the nuts and bolts legal thing there's not like a good legal defense here because as far as i can tell from what one chanko went out and gave interviews that are just like hey you shouldn't do that if they were filing charges against you but basically chenko gave an interview and i forget It was too, where he was like, yeah, he said stuff to me. And so I saw him. Like he said stuff to me online.

No, actually, that's not even true. He said stuff to my friend online. He said he talked shit about Islam on Twitter. And so I punched him in the face. That's a little bit paraphrased, obviously. But like his basic statement was that guy was talking trash online. I saw him in real life. there are consequences for your actions.

And that is not a legal doctrine that applies in the United States of America. I'm not up on, you know, all the day-to-day things. So maybe that's shifted. But that's not there's, he just admitted he assaulted a dude because he tweeted mean things about his friend. Like, there's not, there's not really a good defense. Yeah. Eric Adams tweeted out. uh last night actually uh yeah last night seven o'clock last night

these assaults at madison square garden are completely unacceptable the nypd is already conducting a full investigation and everyone responsible will be held accountable that ain't happening um one that is an enormous waste of new york city's resources in general to eric adams like he's a lame duck mayor trying to pull this shit in Anyway, which is dumb as F. And three, I don't know if you guys saw this. We're not a political podcast, and we're not going to get political. But I saw it.

Do you know who is the biggest Zoran Mundani incoming mayor fan? Donald Trump. Donald Trump loves it and loves him. And so Dana can be like, hey, president, can we take care of this? And he'll call his buddies Zoranomondani and be like, hey, Zoran, what are we doing here? And he'll be like, you know what? F. Eric Adams. charges dropped

ain't nothing happening here I hoping we might be able to break a little news on the program today we'll see we're digging in on something that I think you guys

I think it's pretty interesting so we're waiting to see if we can confirm the other side of things but like honestly I genuinely did not know that Eric Adams is doing this I do not believe anything

will come of this it's incredibly like this is also two weeks later like what in the name of what is he doing it's so stupid um unless somebody like unless somebody filed a claim like a random bystander got injured or something then okay fair like right like this is not behavior that should be condoned um and so like if that's the case if this ever became they just pleaded out because chonko i mean straight out came up and said that he did it and i did it for

reasons that are not legally acceptable he battered a dude for reasons that are not considered viable yeah he literally like tweeted out a youtube video from news.com.a u.u of the incident uh and like quote tweeted the video so yeah he did that yesterday that brawl happened at ufc 322 which wasn't saturday it was the saturday before what is the saturday before the saturday before the saturday Like I you shouldn't do that as the mayor of a city anyway because it just looks like you're not up to date on shit not like oh this thing happened in the city 10 days ago not on my watch like what the fuck are you talking about how are you going to prosecute chonko he can just not fly to new york he lives in king daganstan because you came to the party two weeks late you dumb ass what are we doing? uh master universe jet bike uh wow what a nickname are we getting any christmas special or end of the year shows on m may fighting this year yeah we always do the award show we'll we'll certainly do the award show we'll do the airing of uh the festivist the airing of

i can't wait for that um uh i haven't figured out if i'm going to do i'm trying to um we've got i've got a thanksgiving thing coming thursday that's very stupid it's not a show but you can read about it. It's very, very dumb and me and Jose have been working on some stuff. And it's just, it's too. Oh, yeah. I'm involved in that, aren't I? Are you? I believe I am. Oh, you're, I had to get my stuff in. Oh, no. That's different thing. Oh, different thing to there are two things. But yes, Jose and I've been working on something different, much sillier than I'm very excited about. Okay. But that's not a show. Uh, you know, we'll do something. Yeah. We'll do plenty of stuff. Maybe by Christmas time, uh, because not a lot of people, but a small.

segment of people have been just chastising me about damn they were good christmas time we'll have some time maybe we can get a dust and pourier damn they were good because if if one man deserves it man it's dust and pourier be my christmas gift to you all you fine folk jens it all comes down to this tourney champ versus turdy champ Brian Campbell versus Jose youngs mk versus m a fighting this Friday. Convinced me why I should put my wager on your boy, Jose, and not B.C. Buddy, if you want to bet on B.C., do it because I would love to take the money on the other

side of that action. So I reached out to some friends. I'm told the soon-to-be dropped betting line, Jose is a bigger favorite against Brian Campbell than Anthony Joshua is against Jake Ball right now. Look, when Luke first told me about this project, he was embarking on, I was like, oh, it's actually really fun. And my second immediate thought was, don't let Jose play.

He'll just make it not fun for anyone else. Brian is, I'd love Brian seeing Brian this weekend. He is going to lose. Jose has incredible memory for this sort of thing. Yeah, he's a freak. Just go watch any of the prop quizzes featuring Jose. Dude, he hung a billion points on Ben. like a billion points on him he be he's going on by a hundred thousand points yeah like that was

that that was just full on represent for us talking i was talking to him about it uh about the ben one he was like i didn't really realize how the scoring worked and so i actually didn't optimize uh because i didn't realize like i thought it was like jeopardy and you get the question wrong you lose the points for the question so starting low and then when i realized you don't you just lose a hundred uh i just took all the points and i wiped the floor with him i was like yeah yeah so you could have beat him by more and you beat him by a billion sure could have okay yeah jose is like the sharpshooter you play pool with where if if you don't run the table he's gonna clobber you like he's gonna win every single time so brian needs to literally

brian cannot get a single question wrong or he's going to lose end of discussion Jose is just the Schwab like he's the Schwab like from the old ESPN stumped the Schwab thing like he's the MMA Schwab. You can't beat him. It's not possible. So the best Brian can do is hope to hope to survive the moral victory. Make it 25 minutes. That's what that's what BC has to do. Yeah.

He's in for a he is in for a for a tough day. I think he probably knows this already. but maybe you know maybe he always plays the oh this is not good i'm going to lose and then he goes out and puts on a pretty good pretty good performance so uh danger most have you seen hamzot taking john down yes i did see that video and a whole bunch of other stuff that uh not great yeah i mean that's annoying uh i will say and like john i'll actually give john just the smallest amount of credit here um because john like people were like Oh, Almzot took you down.

Actually, John, John, in fact, responded not like a petulant child, which was nice. He's like, yeah, you know, he's really strong and we're on concrete.

I can't do like as much as maybe I'd like to defend. But like he's really strong. It's like, yeah, watching that my primary takeaway, you know, John wasn't full fight mode. It was still like,

holy, that dude is, man, Hamzaa Chamaev is a monster. He is a very, very big, strong, massive, very talented guy. So, Marcel Dorf was reported that UFC on ESPN 74, December 13th,

Neil Magny versus Amosoff. If that is true, thoughts on that debut for Amosov. Does he get fast track what they win at 170? So, I mean, we haven't like fully confirmed this, but as we've been saying, this fight has been sort of being reported for, couple of weeks now um i've seen it multiple times and as i was saying if you followed the twitter reports of this fight which has been out there for a couple of weeks now kind of i just said

there spoke to the fire so i'll say probably going to happen again we haven't like a hundred percent confirmed it but you know as we've been saying for a while that was that was the fight so has officially announced it yet because this seems kind of like a a fight they would just throw on the website and be like oh there it is last time i saw it was neil magni versus tbd and now they don't even have that anymore assuming it happens i don't i mean magni's actually on a two-part win streak right now he's not ranked um i don't know how yes i think the answer though is assuming that happens in of does win um i don't know that he'll be fast tracked in like the traditional sense of the word because everything at walterweight has got so much going on already but i would guess that his

next opponent will have a number next to their name and it could be somebody like walking buckley you know like it could be even a guy who's not like 15 like up up in the rankings a little bit he could get john brady yeah like i mean that would be that would be every definition of fast track if you got sean brady um because if he won that fight then boom he's he set up um but yeah i think that if he beats you know this makes it this would make sense assuming it happens hey neil magnate he's a top 20 guy uh come in show your level you know there's a little patchy mix era here like hey where you at and uh if if you got the juice you're not a young man i know you're not the your former bellator champion you did lose it but uh you're you're

yeah we can we can move you along pretty quickly so if he wins and if this fight happens and if he wins he's getting a ranked guy um curious to see like i'm looking for even like betting odds for december 13th i'm not seeing anything so uh yeah i haven't i was what i mean betting odds for next week aren't even like super live is pretty limited so i mean this is the perfect fight to debut him with great great fight makes total sense this are probably be the best win of his career if he beats nail magni um i mean lima was a good win just because he like he did exactly what islam did to jdm and it was so damn impressive but douglas was i think he was coming off the loss to to gagard at the time yeah i think lima's still better because

that but that was a middleweight that was douglas going up to win the middleweight belt right he was the yeah uh i think i think lima's still the best win of his career over magni um I think there's an argument for Storley, but I think I would pick Neil Magni over Storley. But I do, there's an argument. I think it would be his second best one, though. I like the fight. I think it's perfect. I think it's a perfect fight.

So, yeah, great. I hope it happens. It seems like it's going to. Wouldn't be surprised. And then we'll get Waldo Cortez-A Costa against, which Chase Sherman doing these days. I think that's like a perfect. Let's bring them back. Curtis Blades.

Go sit on his ass. Curtis A fight in December 13th. Come on. No, well, you know who, again, I, I don't remember if I, did I pitch this on the post show? I don't think you picked it in, I was listening to on to the next one. And I think both you and AK just said whatever to, you like, like, he fights too often to pick him. Again, I like to throw up. Correct.

That's, that's the fight. But not, not December 13th. Because Derek's not going to fight December. He's not going to ruin Thanksgiving. Christmas? You think there's hysterical care? It wouldn't ruin Christmas. It'd get him some extra money.

Shit, they could make it the main event. I'm sorry. Are you here to tell you're looking me. Right here in the eyes, Mike. I don't know you're going to say. You're looking at me right in the eyes,

and you're going to tell me Brandon Ross about the fight Mnall Cop? Because I don't believe that. You shouldn't either. I mean, I would. They need a main event. That card need a main event because you know what happens when that fight inevitably falls apart in the next two weeks.

it's maybe Magni and Amosovic main event or it's Amanda Limers, Gillian Robertson. So, Walter Cortezicosta and Derek Lewis, get on down. First of all, I love that because that would be extra points for me, ranked fighter, main event points. Like, I hope you're right. That's exactly the fight Derek Lewis wins, though. Like, it's exactly the just like he should.

But even if I get like the free main event points, like I'm fine with that. Yeah. Like, I'm okay. I still get something out of the deal. he would win your MVP vote for sure um do it i'll at least accept it i will be furious how this is broken for you but like at least if they just give him a fight against a random guy it'll just like why like he's you don't need to do that sure you do but if they give him derrick lew is because the last card like actually needs a backup main event because you just

can't trust breeder rovlonel cop i'd be okay with that that i mean look look look who kevin holland beat during his like incredible 20 20 like anthony hernandez walking buckley who made his debut on short notice darren stewart yeah he wasn't the he wasn't the top seven ranked guy when he did this he was flying up the rankings at this point uh then he was supposed to fight macmood berid off he's supposed to fight jack her Jack no mockwood barredoff he was supposed to be him and then he took on a young whippersnapper by the name of charlie onteveros which is like dude just get anybody on the card that win over charlie on to verros who is one of probably the worst fighters to compete in the ufc in the last 10 years uh that put him so far over and set him up for the jacqueray fight which put him over the top as the breakthrough fighter of the year and fighter of the year and a lot of people's lists that year so just doesn't matter. Just get anybody. Get anybody. I'm telling you, Chase Sherman is probably available. Just get him out there. Derek Lewis is the only fight. I pitched out on sub radio. I was on sub radio on

Sunday with Aaron Bronstetter. And I was like, guys, there's a right answer. And they were like, trying to figure it out. And then I was like, the answer is Derek Lewis. And both Bronsetter and Dennis were like, yeah, yeah, that's the right answer. And then Dennis was like, man, you and Mike love Derek Lewis. Like, no, Mike loves him. But this time Mike is correct it is the actual right answer yeah i mean it should have been him versus assid all we wouldn't be in the damn situation we're in right now but we don't want to listen to me no one wants to listen to me and think about how fun that would have been uh danger most mic or you is confused is don davis that decode his next fight in february is not against liz carmouge i'm glad

this question was asked for for a couple of reasons one uh she she's fighting denise keelholz i believe that's correct my my first reaction was like why why is it not lose karmouche what are we doing why how do you screw this up so badly like how do you mess this up my only guess is that karmouche is injured and they are just trying to get her active which is okay but we just did this like we literally just did this we gave her a naba and she just killed her for 15 minutes yeah which in a fight that was like yeah and then then car moosh got hurt or uh dakota got hurt she broke a freaking hand in the fight and now she's going to break her hand again over poor denise keelholz who's going to have no defense for this so i'm with don where i don't understand this um at least what's chase sherman doing could have thrown him in no i'm just kidding but um but yeah it's just weird it's just weird it's just weird like i would rather dakota be like i'd rather wait for liz at this point because if she goes

out there and like breaks her hand again like we're gonna have to wait like another five months for this fight to happen and then also like after karmouche like what do you do with her because and here's why i'm glad this question was asked you have a mailbag column coming out jed yep it should drop tomorrow i'm done with it so i think it'll come tomorrow it should drop tomorrow And this became a great debate on our It was a spirited slack debate last night Spirited slack debate Where we're talking about potential trades for Dakota Dichova

What are you do you want to reveal do it just the original one Or do you want to reveal the what I'm still sticking on the original one because I think the original one gets over the line But I'm open to other ideas so the question and I forget who asked it Shout you'll be in the columns or shout out to you was like hey pick five pfl fighters that you could trade to the ufc and what would you trade them for i was like five is way too many um i was just that's just a lot of words to write and like yeah i would get usman and didcheva and ebblin and blah blah um but like pfl's not just going to let you totally raid them for talent um and there's just not a way you can do it but i do actually think that this is

one of the very rare times we're like the first and thus far only mima trade uh where ben asker and demetrius johnson were swapped i think now would make sense for trade between the two organizations because dakota dichiba is wasted in pfl she has the karmouche fight that's the only fight they haven't even booked it instead they booked in these keelholtz that fight is to be generous minimally competitive to be not generous a squash match and what are like why are we doing that with her on the other side of the ball the UFC probably needs to offload some talent anyway because according to Dana white they're going to do double contender series moving forward pretty soon so dumb it's awful but that's not the topic we have to

debate right now um but more importantly like their women's divisions are floundering the only interesting exciting person that's not 37 in women's mMA right now is pretty much Dakota Dichiva. Valentina Shibchenko, I don't know. I mean, she could ostensibly do this forever because she's just better than everybody. But, like, Dichiva is the only person really in Women's MMA that is getting people interesting, but for the Nunez-Harrison matchup. And so, like, they could really use Dakota Dichiva, and they could get Dichiva to be an actual star.

Because one of the points of contention last night in the debate, PFL is valuing Dakota Dichita as a big star. she is just not she has the potential to be that but nobody really like nobody outside of the mma bubble knows her she has 300,000 instagram followers or whatever like that she's just not that and they don't have the tools to build her bigger frankly so you i think it makes sense to do a swap right now you're going to have to give pfl a lot they're invested in ditch of a like they're going to need value for her here. Think of this like an NFL trade, right? Like, okay, we're in a rebuilding phase.

We've got, I would say Michael Parsons, but the Cowboys trade was one of the worst trades in history, not quite the same. Like we have Max Crosby on the Raiders. We're in a full rebuild. We need to get rid of him because we just need as many pieces back as possible to build up with. So I was fiddling around and the trade I've proposed and Don Davis, you're welcome. you can make the phone call right after this is over and you get this uh maybe you want to tweak the numbers a little bit trade is this you give dakota ditch of it to the ufc the ufc gives you

former light heavyweight champion magabana and kalev former welterweight champion leon edwards who brother competes in your organization and what was the third one i had in that my guy which is your guy derrick lewis oh that's right i forgot derrick lewis i was like where was i going and Derek Lewis so PFL gets three people all of whom are frankly like more well known than Dakota Dichiva is broadly uh two former champions one of whom has a brother competing in the organization you're going to get more fights out of those three people than they will with Dichiva Dichiva is whenever her contract is up is almost certainly going to leave the organization so like you're going to get more fights you get bigger names you get you know the second best

light heavyweight in the world you get a former champion and you get Derek Lewis who's the biggest star out of all four of these bodies by a wide margin and a seat if you could possibly get a Francis and Ghanu fight to happen Derek Lewis makes more sense than doing Vadim Nemcov which nobody cares about. Maybe

you have to throw in one more piece because you are, the PFL is getting several older fighters. Angolaev's not old, but he's Angolaev. So maybe you have throw in like one more piece to the mix like Sean Brady or something like that. But I don't think the UFC should be opposed

to doing that because the upside with Dichiva is there and I think PFL could use four people in place of one nominal star that they have. Who says no chat? I actually think this is like a really good trade for both sides. I know. I spent

some time on this one and I was really happy with it. Yeah. Because I think Leon Leon's like a good fit for PFL because they do go to the UK and they go to that part of the world. and they go to Europe a whole lot. His brother's there, so you can put them both in the same card. And you can just shine Leon up for Thad Gene to clobber in like a year or two. And that just gets that over as a guy who beat the former UFC champion.

And that's always great for an organization that's trying to grow. The Ankleyev won, like no, he's just, he just is what it is. Yeah. But he's undeniably one of the three best light heavyweights in the world and the UFC doesn't like him. he would be their best fighter by he would be their best he would be their best pound for pound fighter by a long mile yeah um and they go to the middle east and they go to the middle east a bunch and you know who would be super popular over fighting in the middle east magabana ancholive he'd be very popular so you just put him on those those sadi cards the middle east cards and he becomes very popular the derrick lewis one is just great because he would be their bit he would be the face of their company immediately He would be their biggest star since Kayla Harrison and probably would outshine her eventually because he would fight a lot more and there'd be more, I guess, like, competitive matchups for him. And he would run with that. And they would pay him a whole bunch of money, which make him very happy.

So, and honestly, like, Derek Lewis, like, Derek Lewis for the amount of money he's making the UFC, he even told me like, hey, it's because of Francis going to PFL. Like that's why I got the contract I got because they came correct after Francis left because they knew that PFL would try to snatch me up to go fight Francis. So the UFC paid me a whole bunch of money and I liked it. So I think it makes sense, man, because like you said, the second Dakota's deal is over because she's there. She's there because she's getting a bag. She's getting a giant bag of money. So like just it's kind of like Kayla sticking around. Like take the bag, set your life up forever.

and then like you don't like you shouldn't have to struggle for cash ever again after this deal so just invest wisely set yourself up for the rest of your life and then once this deal is over she's gone anyways like she's going to go to the ufc and then it becomes legacy at this point it becomes like how good was i so i like i kind of like this man i think it makes a lot of sense for for all parties involved again you might have to sweeten it for pfl because you know that you might just need another piece or two but the uc can give them pieces they don't care like they don't need random top 15 dudes like you could throw like i again i spent a lot of time on this the and i was trying to find trades that could happen because izzie just wouldn't go like i don't think izzie

would fight for pfl if traded um because my initial thought was like robert wittaker and i was like robert would bob would retire like i i straight up think he would retire uh he's also said something more or less to that effect. Like if he's not in the UFC, he's done. You can't really give him any women's fighters because their women's divisions are relatively poor in general. And so like none of those trades, like you got to find the right pieces,

but you could just throw on a bunch of, dude, if they want like, if we had fun, if this was a sport where fun was allowed, then they could be like, here, we'll give you these three and we'll give you the option to sign two contender series. prospects next season any two you want that we that any two off like we could do something fun

like that and that'd be cool but it's this isn't a fun that that's that's fun that that's not a thing that's remotely viable this i think is viable um i do and i agree and at the same time like i understand that dakota ditcha is quote unquote the face of the company i get that but she will never be as over as she was at the end of last year she's just won't. There's nothing they can do to make her more popular than she was after she beat Tyler Santos. That was as big as she will ever be with them because they just don't have the fights for her. Even if she beats Liz, it'll be big. But like, she was so, she was the, she was one of like the fighters of the year last year. Like every like that was the, oh shit, they got

something here. And then she came back and fought Samiko Anaba. And it was just like, okay, like we know what this is and now she's going to begin 2026 with Denise Keelholz when I see some people saying like oh it would be a fun fight because she's a kickbox she's got to ball her she's going to absolutely destroy her like it's just going to be the same kind of thing where we're back to well she's just beating competition that she's way better then and then the Santos one was like all right now she might be like the fifth best women's flyweight on the planet she might be one of the best pound for pound fighters in women's MMA like she was just so over at that point and now like

I just don't understand why we're not doing this fire right now I don't get it she's not a star in like a meaningful definition of that word she is a known fighter amongst hardcore mma fans they can't get her to be a star like they just don't have the tools to do it and so like nice lazy

like they can keep trying to build around her and like that's that gene or whatever but I don't it seems like that's a hard road to hoe when you could get again maybe it's not just the three I offered but the three is the bulk of a trade package

and you give them one or two other pieces and I I think the PFL should take that and I think the U.S.C. should offer it because the upside with Dichiva is very, very grand. Like, they're Jamal Hillen.

What about this day? Go around tree? I think they like Khalil Rontery. I don't think they want. I think Kalil would make sense to some extent for PFL. I, again, you're riding the line of, like, who would the UFC be okay with? I think they like Khalil. But, like, I don't know that they like Jamal.

Jamal is boisterous and loud and a former champion. You could throw Jamal in. He would do quite well over there. Actually, probably be a good career decision for him. Yeah, like, it would be a good move for him. Like, I think there are pieces to get her. It wouldn't be a one-to-one that DJ, Ascran was, but like, I think the UFC should inquire into doing this.

They won't, but it was an interesting question posed. And then I thought about it and I was really happy with what I came up with. Yeah, I think that's a, that's a pretty fair trade across the board. I like this question. Mike and Jed, what has been the funniest MMA moment for you both this year, something that brings a smile on your face? Mike, do you, we're on the same page, right? I think so.

but it's not something I've like actively thought about but there is one thing that like popped into my mind immediately well what is yours kevin holland versus danier rodrie correct correct kevin holl and danio d'uadriguez 318 easily the funniest thing it's happened this year um like i can't think of anything else immediately fight related that made me laugh as much as that fight has that's going to be in my top five fights of the year almost certainly probably is incredible so yeah absolutely right near the top of the list yeah that's that's got to be it it's got to be it uh we're still doing super chats yes uh of course we are i saw somebody asked earlier just to answer it i'm not a falcons fan

i've never been a falcons fan i'm a colts fan oh patrons will be the number one seat by the way i don't think so not after your injuries this past weekend i think you guys you're making the playoffs certainly you're going to win the division but you lost your left guard and your left tackle that's i mean they're not out for the year apparently i think that might i think the broncos are going to get it improbably the fucking broncos the schedule just isn't great like baltimore is going to be tough drake may was getting sacked before your o line disintegrated yeah i mean that was our that was one of our issues heading into the season like i said like Like I've been saying the whole time, like, I'm not even, like, if they go to the playoffs and they lose in the first round, like, I'm not even going to be mad about it.

Yeah. Like, this is, they are overachieving to the umth degree right now. The fact that they're even, I was like, they're going to win nine games. And if they win nine games, like, I will be so excited for next season. They're crushing that. So, like, all of this is just cherry on top of the Sunday right now. The only team who's crushed it more is the Colts, who objectively have crushed it more because they exceeded their win. total projection the earliest of any team in the NFL and I got to tell you as a Colts fan

this season's perfect I've had so much fun and now Daniel Jones is sucking again so we're not going to pay him a $50 million or a three year for three years so we're not going to do what the Giants did and be like oh we have to pay him and now we're hamstrung we're like cool the rest of our team's good let's find a quarterback we're going to make the playoffs we're with the division or get to have some fun we will lose to somebody uh it'll be great and we won't pay daniel jones a billion dollars which i'm very happy about uh some other funny thoughts um marcus buchetch's ufc debut that was very funny i enjoyed kisi and i had a incredible time watching that fight uh we watched that live at the end of a people's pre fight show and boy we were

We were getting after it. What else we got? While we're going through, I'm thinking if there's anything else that jumps out of my head. But nothing, I mean, nothing, the immediate answer is Kevin Holland, Daniel Rodriguez, because I laughed a lot. Oh, that was such a fun fight. A fight. It was an incredible fight. I mean, it wasn't that funny, but you, you yelling at Daniel Zell-Huber while he's fighting Michael Johnson with a climb on the line.

line. That was actually really funny, not funny in the context of our lives, not necessarily the context of. I remember saying, I remember saying nothing. I was silent for three minutes on the watch party, just laughing and holding back tears because I didn't. The only saving grace is that immediately after, Kevin Holland would have lost the two. So I just had no chance, but man, that was tough yeah what a night what a night that was that might just been the funniest pay-per-view at the year there was definitely the funniest movie the year what was that that was 318 right time yeah 318 was a time was that that was the max was moorey castin yeah it was one of the rare times there were five decisions on a main card and i was we had a blast

locked in the whole time marvin vittori got a fight of the night I mean, what a wonky guard. I can't believe, like, looking at that now, I cannot believe Brendan Allen, Marvin Vittorio was fighting for the night. That's like, maybe, maybe the third or fourth best fight. It's ridiculous.

Over D-Rod and Holland is ridiculous. Over Dustin Poreas? Yeah. And over Dustin Pore's final fight is insane. Dude, even though over Zell Hubert Johnson is probably not right. Like, man, I forgot for a lot of this. year they were doing some really weird bonuses someone asked earlier uh best male and female

debuts like rookie years this year that stood out or like rising prospects they used to um debuts are tough because when we do that sort of stuff i let's like actually do a research phase and i'm not um i'm not Jose youngs i don't recall things like that i mean atabas got be the dude right like the table feels like he has come i mean there's he's got the most juice right now i think of guys who made the debut this year i mean juicing you well maker had a big year jacobi smith yeah well maker just losing kind of takes the shine off him but jacobi smith also i mean another prosper i'm super high on i think atabba's the dude that i would say is like the the guy who made his debut uh uh

um killing salkild great year killing cell killed also has just impressed beyond what i anticipated um i'm looking at debuting fighters right now and seeing who is jumping all um

i mean just shout out to ethan ewing i know that was very recent but that's just a cool story for him to make his debut in that yeah that's a good one um Melissa Croden could I really like her man Oh Kevin Vallejos debuted this year

I don't realize Kevin Vallejo's debut this year I guess that makes sense He won contingency series last year I think Kevin Vallejos is like One of the best prospects in sport right now But his debut was not the same level Like a table or whatever Who did you say just now Mike?

I like Melissa Croton a lot Melissa Croton that was a very good debut. Judis didn't debut this year, right? She debuted last year. No, Judy's debuted last year. No, that's the other thing. If we get Dakota, we're one step close to Carlis Gideast, Dakota Dichiva, which

is probably my number two fight of won't be made anytime soon, but man, I want to see those two. Just take shots at each other. Just getting a knife fight in the middle of the octagon. That would rock.

I think Melissa Crodin might be the answer as far as women go. I'm looking around to see if anybody else is jumping out that I've missed. Nobody is, I'm looking at a list on old Wikipedia. No other women's fighters are really like blowing my hair back here. So yeah, Melissa Crodden's a good choice. that's yeah i was really impressed by her especially because i just really oh um i mean also we should probably note uh just for the sake of it uh be it's mosquito oh what am i talking about i forgot that's that's that's that's the correct answer yeah that's that's probably the right answer

there but croton's also good cron's there too but b is not really like a prospect as i mean Crotin's I told croton of no idea I think she's in her she I think she's 30 is what I like that's the number that jumped out at my head but I don't know if that's true or not she is but she does it's called scare 34 yeah um yeah but she's only yeah I mean features mosquito is the best is is the person to put hitch a wagon to as far as going to do something good so if we have like female rookie of the year is it her almost again almost certainly I can't imagine not so we have to figure this out if we're going to do rookie the year again or if we're going to do break if we're going to bring back

breakthrough fighter of the year because it's wilder Cortez Acosta by I think country mile I've pitched this the last three years I think we should do both oh okay I just think they're different things like a rookie is a rookie they are a debuting fighter and a breakthrough fighter is you know it's like the comeback fighter of the year it's not the same but we don't do a comeback fight of the year because that would be a it's a hard thing to do in this sport. Did Fatima Klein debut this year? I don't think so.

I think Fatima debuted last year, but let me check that. Because she fought Jasmine on pretty short notice. Let me check that. It could be this year. Luke Riley, I like a lot. No, she did debut last year. Okay, okay. Montecu is another one I really like.

She debuted this year. There's some decent prospects. I really like this crop of contender series, guys, who only a couple of debuted. So we'll start to get a few of them coming through Last year John was okay But yeah I think we should just do both And at some point we are probably going to have to have a conversation

About if we split up men's and women's Because we're just never going to award a woman A prize in the sport if we don't Because of how the things are going We don't have to But like by my estimation Right now I wrote about I wrote sort of about this in the mailback column that should drop tomorrow.

I think the fighter, actually, no, I guess I wrote this on a roundtable. Sorry, I think our fighter of the year discussion is a two horse race. Yes. It's Marab de Valshvili. If he wins at 323, he's the fighter of the year. I don't think there's a credible argument not for Marab if he wins, if he beats Peter Yan again. If he loses, I will probably give it to his Lamagachev. I think that those are the only two functional answers for fighter of the year

and my number three which I don't think people realize but to me is actually a pretty clear cut number three but obviously behind the two of them is Valentina Shepchenko I agree with you and so like I think Valentina Shepchenko is a clear number one far and away the women's fighter of the year it's not a question I think she's number three on my list and if Marab loses to Peoria on,

I actually might even put her above Marab. Well, I'm putting Josh Van above Marab too. If he loses and Josh wins the belt on Saturday. If Josh wins the belt and Maraub loses, Josh is the other guy who's like not going to make the top five if he loses. If he wins, absolutely top five, it's where I slot him in that gets interesting.

Yeah. I, because I wrote about Josh Van and was like, man, I didn't realize how wild his year was until I looked at it. He was unranked in January. Yep. He was unranked on all. He wasn't even a far of on our rankings. He was a, hey, this guy's good. He'll fight for a belt one day. He was still unranked in June before he fought Bruno Silva. I think he got a ranking before like he was 14 when he fought

Bruno Silva who's 12 in the UFC's rankings beats Bruno Silva. So he's 12. But then he gets the Royval fight on three weeks notice and suddenly he's the number one contender. Like that is outside of like Sean Strickland, who lost in December and was clearly not going to fight for a belt and then won the belt seven months later, that is as sharp an uptick as you can get in this sport. It's a hell of a year if he wins. And when Waldo wins December 13th, he'll be number five. He will certainly be in the mix. Waldo has locked up the all violence first team for heavyweights. He's got it.

It's not a question. so and he will certainly be a viable contender in the you know fighter of the year top five conversation he still is now even if he doesn't get to fight in December he's still in the mix before we get out of here jed we do this on the show every year uh what are what are you most thankful for in mMA 48 hours or so away from Thanksgiving 2025 I mean uh the bad answer, but the true answer is I am thankful for all of you watching and are listening to this after the fact. I could not do this job. If you guys, I mean, some of you do hate me and that's okay. But if you all hated me, I could not do this job. And I love my job. I think I am

incredibly lucky to be one of the few who gets to do this for a living. So that is the thing I'm always the most thankful for. I'm obviously, of course, thankful for my colleagues at MAPFID.com. great website um and then from like a less uh sentimental sappy thing i you know it hasn't been the best year but it's been a perfectly fine year and i will always always always be thankful for my beautiful adult children rhinor de winter driggis duplecy and youri perashka uh they are you know justin gaichi was my son as well but he's he's about to leave the nest he's about to move on to other things, go off to college. And I still am thankful for him, but I've had less to be thankful for.

But RDR, Yeri, and DDP, I love you so much. And keep being yourselves, boys. And Mr. Sinear Pepe with the Super Jeb. Well done. Well done. Luke Raleigh called up Alexander Toporia. They should do that fight. I know you love that fight, Chad.

Yeah. But they're not in the same way. awesome i don't care i know i knew when i when i pitched it in the slack and before a k yelled at me i was like i don't care this is ilia wasn't a lightweight and he should fight it's trying to fight just engage he let luke riley move up and fight him and this is partly where down he's gonna move down sorry yeah that's how it goes um this is partly or toporia move up like his brother does it's fine too this is partly where i like really think that teporea brother thing is stupid and i just don't care that like

I don't care for them. Be like, we won't fight. We won't even have fights booked at the same time. Like, okay, that seems silly, but your adults, I guess you can do that. Because it would make sense for those two dudes to fight on the same card as, you know, their teammates fighting. But I would also be down if they, if they booked that for a quick turnaround for like December, like December 13th. Put that fight on the December 13th card. And then we'll, you know, we can get Ily and Patty.

morning against each other. I mean, fine, but that card is filling up with Waldo, Cortez-A Costa versus Chase Sherman. So I don't know where we're going to slot that one in there. I'm going to be so upset. I hope that's the fight so bad. Oh, so upset. Just do it.

Out of no, half of your team doesn't compete, but Waldochita Costa fights four times. If we can get Gautier and Waldo on that card, it would be just spectacular. Truly spectacular stuff. I mean, the fantasy league with two, two games left to play, it is tight. AK and Casey are mathematically eliminated. All the rest of us are still in the thick of it. You're in, you're in it even if WCA doesn't fight because, well, I guess, depends on how much you think Peyoteer Yan has a chance of fighting and beating, I suppose.

But you'll get the 25 points for the main event from Peyodor, at least. That's right. Oh, God. If he wins the belt, geez. You get the 50 for the title fight in the main event. If he beats Marab, I'll be upset that I've lost fantasy,

but I'll be so happy to beat Marab. I won't care. I think it would be much more fun if he beat Marab, frankly. I don't, Marab will, I'm very clear. Maraub will absolutely deserve to be fighter of the year if he beats Pirion, no questions asked.

I'd much rather vote Islamachia for fighter. the year. Um, I can't do it if Maraub wins. No, you can't. I won't. But like, if Rob loses, I, historically, people will look back and be like, oh, yeah, probably one of the 10 best fighters of all time. He should have won fighter of the year. That makes sense. I would like that better. It was, it was at the time. I was at the time, I was furious. I don't remember if you were on staff at this point or not when we put Max Holloway over Demetius Johnson that year. I was like, guys, outside of this being stupid on its face. This is historically going to look bad that, you know, one of the four greatest fighters who have ever competed in arguably his like most headline grabbing year, he had the mighty whiz bar like, why are we not?

Max beat Jose Aldo twice. It's the same fight. He just did it twice. That's great. It's the same fight twice. Like, come on. And we lost by the fact that is even the most infuriating is if I'm remembering thing, I think. I think Casey like didn't have DJ ranked at all in his top five and like if he had just had him in the top five it was something like that were like DJ wasn't on somebody's ballot and so he lost a max by like a point it was like what are we doing you psychopaths

I'll be mad about that forever I will be mad about that one forever I won't be mad if Rob wins but I do think historically look better if Islam Markachev one of the greatest fighters of all time maybe Robb ends up being one of the great as far as of all time too he's certainly on pace to do just that but uh i would it would be cooler but maraub will absolutely deserve it if he wins there's no question certainly undeniable yes um i'm thankful for all of you as well i'm thankful for all the staff everyone i work with here at ma fighting dot com uh thankful for waldo cortizacosta for what he's accomplished getting me back into the game uh yeah and and honestly like i'm very thankful for as far as like in the sport itself I'm thankful the ESPN errors is over

or just about over we only have two more events and I can get rid of that stupid app I never have to look at it again so super excited for that hopefully Paramount will be better I'm looking forward to this new era at least I'm looking forward to the first half maybe the whole first year of the UFC

like I said they're going to give their full effort into all of this but they're at least going to try harder for that first year to get this new relationship off the ground. And, you know, despite what we talked about with Dakota Dichiva earlier, I'm thankful PFL is at, they are trying, they are triers. They're trying to do the thing. And they're not there yet, but they are at least trying to put their best foot forward with what they have available. So all you can ask is effort be put forth. PFL is, you know, doing that UFC

I think they're going to try hard especially with the White House card coming up and that's going to be a huge thing. It's going to be a huge event and I'll be very thankful for the day that the main event and that fight card is announced so we can stop talking about it and we just look forward to the actual fights that are going to take place

so yeah I would love that I would I would love that it really feels almost 300 of like dude this is seven weeks out what are we doing just announce something just announce it like why why are you not announcing it um get the deal done whatever it is and do it yeah it's annoying it's okay to announce something seven year like seven months away like it's fine it's okay

but hopefully we get that answer you actually you know how i know it's okay they've done it with the white house and it's people are stoked on that and that's a year away it's you could just be like yeah uh yeah wrestlingania was built up one year for john cina versus the rock a year They didn't care. Retiring soon? When's he done fighting or fake fun? The same day, Waldo Cortez Acosta is going to beat Chase Sherman, December 13th. Who's he retiring against?

We don't know yet. They're doing a tournament to determine who the final opponent's going to be. I believe it's going to be Goonther. Oh, okay. I don't. I believe it'll be Goonther. There's a big German dude, right? Yeah.

He's awesome. Black shorts and nothing, no flare. He's awesome. He's just large and people like him? He's the best worker pound foot pound in in the company. you so it'd be great great rub you know puts the man over and is john tina going to lose he going to go out in his back oh he has to i mean i don't i'm sure maybe not i don't know i mean that's that's what you do in your last batch when you're going away you put the put the dude over

you go out doing the doing the favors as the kids i do again i'm not the biggest pro wrestling guy i really like the history of it i've decided it's very interesting um i just don't care for the product but I do really respect I think that's very cool that the the the energy what's the word I'm looking for the the whole thing is that you go out getting the next guy like that that is the that that's just it like that is the expectation that the culture is you don't leave on top you leave not on the bottom but just helping the next generation along uh mMA is very obviously not that the culture is usually you leave on bottom because you have hung around way too long but there's nothing about it that's a collaborative effort because

it's an actual competitive sport it is i'm getting for me and i think some of times like all of my primary issues with the sport right now would be solved if people were like a little more collaborative of like, oh, I am I'm I'm I'm I'm Elia Tupuria. I have a duty and obligation to this lightweight title. I will defend it. And there are against the best guy. Yeah, against the best guy.

And there are some champions right now that are doing that. Shevchenko, Marab, uh, Pantosha. Like I dislike Maraub's fighting style, but I have an immense amount of respect for what he is attempting to accomplish in the manner he's doing it. Same for Pantosia. Uh, if everybody was like that, I think the sport would be a little bit better. And that'll do it. No.

The music is playing. The music is playing. I don't know if you're allowed to talk or not. I don't remember if we've solved that problem. I think we did, but it's playing in the background. We're done, everybody. Thank you all for a wonderful time. As always, we'll be back again next Thursday to get you ready for UFC 323.

Good card. Very good way to. the pay-per-view era for the UFC and ESPN. For Jed, I am Mike Keck. Thank you for watching if you celebrate. Happy Thanksgiving. Have a great rest of your week. Happy Thanksgiving.

We are so thankful for you. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Nothing quite makes a holiday gathering pop like turning on the music. And if you're looking to set the mood, you should check out Sonos. With Sonos, movie nights feel bigger and more cinematic while holiday parties come to life with music that flows from room to room. It's the kind of sound that makes a house feel warm and connected

during the season. Want studio quality sound at home? Explore Sonos speakers, soundbars, and more at Sonos.com and discover how easy it is to build your own whole home audio system. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams

within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf.