MMA Fighting - BTL | Thanksgiving Episode: Bellator 288, UFC Vegas 65, PFL Pay-Per-View, Chimaev vs. Pereira, More

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

After a chaotic weekend in the world of combat sports, a lot of news, and perhaps speculation came out of it. But what storyline stood out the most? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel of MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew discuss Vadim Nemkov's upset win over Corey Anderson to retain the light heavyweight title, Usman Nurmagomedov dominating Patricky Pitbull in the co-main event to win the lightweight title, Bellator 290 heading to CBS — which includes Fedor Emelianenko challenging Ryan Bader for the heavyweight title in his final fight — the James Krause fallout following UFC Vegas 65, the PFL World Championship pay-per-view card on Friday, Khamzat Chimaev calling for a middleweight title fight against Alex Pereira, reveal some of the things they are thankful for in the world of MMA, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. The Vox Media Podcast Network. From M.A. Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my...

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition. between the links and for those who celebrate, happy Thanksgiving to you because that's when this podcast will be dropping. And it will be a podcast because it being Thanksgiving. No live video components, but we didn't want to leave you hanging. First things first, it is Tuesday as we record this. So maybe something happened on Wednesday and it isn't mentioned on the show. And if that's the case, I'm sorry, not sure what else to say about it.

But are bad. I will say this. These are some of my favorite BTL episodes to do because I just bring in Mr. No Gray area. We hit record. We have no real game plan and the show just goes where it goes. So with that being said,

let us say hello to the exhibition king. Mr. Jedmishu. Hello, sir. What's up, buddy? Yeah. This, I don't, I mean, usually I feel like I have an idea of where these shows are going to go, right? We're doing them for,

it's a down week or it's a holiday. week, but at least there's stuff to talk about about, but like, is it just, we're just doing PFO? Like, is that, like, I don't, or were you going to spend a lot of time on, on Vegas 65?

Like, it doesn't seem like, it's, I don't, I just, I'm fascinated to find out where this is going to go. So I'm, I'm treating this like, it's Thanksgiving Eve. You and I are just sitting around a fire,

a couple of frosty ones in hand, and we're just going to let the conversation, and go where it goes. I guess I'll start here because you mentioned UFC Vegas 65 and it makes me think back on just the weekend that was because it was a busy and sort of weird weekend. And the UFC card was what it was. No Derek Lewis and Sergey Spivak.

We got to see Kennedy and Sachuquo have a great moment and just cut the nicest post-fight promo afterwards. But the card, yeah, the card was just fights with very, little stakes. It was a fine watch. The worst things to do on a Saturday, but it was a card. And then later that night, misfits boxing and DeZone had the

second weirdest event of the weekend behind what happened with the UFC. And then Bellator on Friday had Bellator 288 with two title fights. We had one new champion in Usman Ramaga Madoff. Not very surprising. Vadim Nemcoff retained his light heavyweight title

against Corey Anderson. He shuts some people up. A little more surprising. That was a little more surprising. So what stood out to you the most from this past weekend with everything that happened in those three cards from an incage perspective? I have a feeling we'll touch on some of the non-in-cage stuff in a moment. I mean, I think the biggest one just has to be Vadim Kov. You could make the argument for Narmaqa Maddov. But that one just didn't stand out as much because honestly, and we can hop into the Belator talk because frankly Belator is card was more relevant and useful.

Like those are those fights meant more than the UFC fights this past weekend. That great performance. I'm not here to poo poo, Ousman, Irrigamette off getting a dominant, you know, 50, 44 win over Patricki Pitbull. He didn't dominate as much as I thought he would. He still didn't lose even a second of that fight. I think that fight still, I already had him ranked in the top 15 at lightweight, but I think that fight probably solidified.

for everybody. I suspect he will be on everybody's top 15 list. But, you know, I sort of expected it to be even more dominant to be even higher off him. Whereas, and this is, this is it. You know, it's perception versus what actually

happens. I thought the demon Nimcov was going to lose. I thought Nimcov was going to win when he and Corey Anderson fought however long ago that was earlier this year. I picked him. I felt good about it. We all know what happened in that fight. He was not winning that fight and barring a very unfortunate circumstance with the headbutt happening

in the no contest, he was going to lose that fight and lose the title. And so I was like, well, I guess I was just wrong. It seems that he doesn't have any answer to Corey Anderson's wrestling. If Anderson gets him down, it's game over, and we saw that he could do that. So I just was like, yeah, sure, Corey Anderson going to win. Dude put in the work, came back, looked really good. and one did me a huge favor, Mike, because as you know, you know that I did not want to live in a world where Corey Anderson

could have a legitimate claim to being the greatest light heavyweight on the planet. And now I don't. Vadim doing God's work by preventing that from happening. And now I think he pretty clearly can't, I mean, you can make the argument that he is the top light heavyweight in the world. it does ring a little less true or it's it's slightly tougher just because he does have the tkale lost to your prohashka granted that was over five years ago i think that was back in 2016 um so it's a long time ago but you know the resume is what the resume is that still stays but you know man's still

fairly young and and he's 30 fadeors fador's dude showing out baby so he's the story of the for me just because I think the expectations. My expectations were not that high, and he did the damn thing. To me, the Dust Commander was the biggest story of Bellator, because apparently he's still relevant. He's still relevant. He's in between Danny Sabatello and Rafion Stotz at the little scrum they had. He cornered Daniel James for his big knockout, upset win of Tyrol Fortune.

I mean, this guy is undefeated as a coach, and I think he's going to get some noms for coach of the year when it's all said and done. But all joking aside, the thing that stood out the most to me. Detroit Urban Survival Tactics, is that the team? Yeah. It's a you cannot defeat that combat system. I love that because that's like, I don't know if you've ever gone back and watched like the very, very first UFCs, but they're hilarious because it's a bunch of dudes

with made up martial arts styles or whatever or like their own. like, he made his own martial arts. Safta. And he's a safta practitioner. And he just goes and gets trucked. And that's what dust is. And it's the best. Yes.

You got to watch this. So I think my biggest takeaway was Hasim Rockman Jr. Not fighting Jake Paul earlier this year. He's supremely wise decision. Was it not? I mean, good grief with this Greg Harvey fight. I went back and watched it.

today. I just stunned at how not good at boxing he was. Yeah, he was, I'm props to you for going back and watching that, um, shouts to the dedication that you are showing. He is

he's not very good. Um, and Jake Paul probably beat him. He still probably could have won that fight if Greg Hardy wasn't a hundred pounds heavier than him. And like, I watch, I,

I, covered it or whatever. In real time, that fight is just outlandish. It's like, man, what are we doing here? What are these, what is happening? Why is Hasim Rahman Jr. doing this? Why is

Greg, I have so many questions about Greg Hardy. Greg Hardy's post-fights interview where he was like, I'm, I'm a pro boxer. I'm not a football player at all. I'm a pro boxer. I'm Ali. I'm doing, you know, I'm,

I'm Fury or whatever. I was like, dude, you couldn't knock out a guy who's bad at boxing and weighed 100 pounds less than you. I don't understand Greg Hardy because he's had moments and he's like hyper athletic. And there was a time when I was like dead ass convinced that he was going to be a top 10 heavyweight in the UFC just because he is so athletic.

But he can't, I just don't understand how he cannot convert all the talent he has into something more meaningful. And Rachman should have taken the bag from Jake Paul because he's never getting one again. Because he's not good enough to get one again. That name is not going to carry him after this fight and his lack of skills aren't going to carry him anywhere. So it's boxing is weird and I never know how to deal with it.

Well, speaking of that and having to deal with it, things. And then they're going to do this thing. Yes, Dylan Danes continues to do Dylan Danes things. And over the weekend, he gets into it with KSI, Mr. Misfits boxing himself at the Misfits slash DeZone series 003 event. Can we just shorten the goddamn name? This is just insanity. No. No longer. Plus plus. Zone, DeZone 0.000 plus. misfits boxing Endezone presents

misfits boxing ex dezone series we could do this all day long but Dylan Danes and KSI get into it coffee is thrown and then Dylan Dennis goes outside in the old parking lot

and usually after skirmishes going to the parking lot is probably the worst place you can go but KSI didn't follow him out there Anthony Taylor follows him out into the parking lot and just punches Dylan Danis right in the face and now Dylan Dennis is boxing KSI

in January. And Bellator is allowing this to happen, which might be the most astounding thing of all. So Dylan Danes, Jed, do you even care to give your thoughts on this man at this point? I don't. He is the weirdest person maybe in all of combat sports. And it's because nobody remember.

He was like a very legit and very, serious grappling prospect. Like, this dude grappled Gordon Ryan and held his own. Like, this guy can play the game. But he almost immediately just adopted faux Connor as his personality. And then it's trying to coast on that

into this. And maybe that is a good business decision for him. I'm not looking at his bank statements. I don't know. Maybe it is just better to try and get yourself into the influencer boxing game instead of the real fight game. because he looked awful in the one fight he had,

like just looked terrible. But I don't know what the end game is. I don't know if this is. I've never talked or met the man. And we don't have like a long history with him. Like Colby Covington. Let's use him as an example, right? Because everybody is aware that Kobe Covington is putting on an act.

And I'm sorry if I am telling you something that you did not know. I apologize for breaking the fourth wall. Colby Covington is acting. He's not very good at acting, and we can have a whole separate argument or discussion about the merits of, about when acting just becomes your real personality and the lines get blurred, etc. Neither here nor there. What we can also say is Colby Covington had a persona,

like a very public persona that we all knew beforehand. Then he made the mental calculation of, I will make X more dollars if I do this thing, and then he leaned real hard into it. we don't really have that with Dylan Dennis. Dylan Dennis came to us with minimal other information about how he was. I don't know if this is just who he is, if he is just a delusional lunatic or not.

And it wouldn't shock me at all if he is, because, like, I don't know, it kind of seems like delusional lunatics are the people that kind of gravitates towards. So maybe that's just it. But this is, he threw, has to this point thrown away, what appeared to be a very promising grappling career and potentially an

MMA career to now go get knocked out by a YouTuber in a white collar boxing match because that's what's going to happen. I don't know how much money is getting for it. That is the other, and maybe you know more on this than I do, Mike, you're certainly more plugged into these

aspects of the fight game than I am. I never know what, when people say, you know, they're chasing it the money. I don't ever really know what that means. Because, like, my guess is that Tyron Woodley made more boxing Jake Paul than he did in the UFC, because the UFC's contracts are horrifically bad by and large as far as, you know, compensation goes. But I don't know,

like, I would be pretty surprised, I think, if you told me that Jake Paul paid Tyron Woodley a million dollars because he doesn't need to. No one is tuning in because he's fighting Tyrone Woodley. It's Jake Paul and he could fight me and do substantively similar numbers. In this same one, there is a

zero percent chance. Anybody is tuning into KSI versus Dylan Dennis because Dylan Dennis. He is not bringing the bodies to the viewer. It is KSI. It's people who like this. It's like Misfits boxing and the

influencer white collar boxing matches. And I'm not here to yuck to y'allum. I am actually kind of charmed by them at this point in time. But if he's not bringing any real additional value, are they paying him more? Like, I just, I struggle to see him making, like, real bands off this fight. And he's getting knocked out and humiliated because he gets knocked out by a YouTuber. And I don't know, the guy doesn't seem to have an issue getting humiliated. He does it every other night on TMZ or whatever.

whatever at this point, but I don't know who's in his corner, who's telling him what to do, or if no one is, and no one can tell him to just like stop being a total jackass, but here we are. You know, maybe he's doing it right. I mean, I think he brings in some people, at least from the MA community, because most people from the MA community aren't tuning into misfits boxing events. Not many, but if there's one person that that sort of co-legs, could bring in from the MMA space and get some buys, it's probably Dylan because people just want to see this dude get knocked out.

And they would pay $35 to watch it, I think. So I don't think they're getting like $50,000 buys. But they probably get a couple thousand. Do you think people really want to want to pay to see Dylan Danes get knocked out? I think so. I'm willing to believe it. But like it's Dylan Danis just means nothing to me. He is a nothing.

Like that is, and that as dismissive as I possibly can be with regard to this. I don't hate that dude. I don't like that dude. He means nothing. He has no relevance or bearing to my life for years. It is, oh, there's Dylan. I know who he is as a person because of the industry in which I work and his relative prominence within it at this stage.

But I don't care at all. If you told me, hey, he's going to go grapple, be like, oh, and I might have a little more interest in that. Like, let's see where he's at if you're going to do some kind of showcase grappling match. But, like, this does nothing for me. And I just, it's hard for me to really put myself in the shoes of people who are, like, want to pay money to watch him get knocked out. Like, you can just watch the YouTube video with him getting choked out by a bouncer,

which is way funnier because he's supposed to be a grappler. And he gets choked out by a bouncer. To quote you, to quote you, my friend, if this fight even happens, I'll eat my hat. Dylan Dennis isn't fighting KSI. He's not fighting him. I don't care how much money he might get for this. Dude, that's even worse. It's even worse.

Like, he is so bad at this. Like, I guess if you operate under the assumption that no press is bad press or whatever, right, then maybe he's better at it than some people. but if he pulls out of this what how how is he redeemable how is he how is there any just just a floundering infant child just yelling at everyone that he's the greatest

when he's like I'm I mean this very seriously Mike I could probably outbox him based on the one fight I've seen him do he would kick this shit out of me in a regular fist fight because I'm not a world-class grappler. But if you just give us 14-ounce gloves

and are like square up in the circle, let us go, I have a very reasonable chance to beat that man unless he has made unbelievable strides from his MMA debut. So like, what the hell are we doing with him? I don't know. I don't know. I can't believe Belcher's like,

you know what's a great idea? Let's send this guy over to a misfits boxing of them. I thought he's fighting. That's true. Lightning and Belich. He's stuck in our contract with them, though, which makes no sense. Just release this man.

Just release this man. What are we doing hanging on to him? Yeah, there's no reason to keep him around. Just let him go be, I don't know, be a peacock and fly, buddy. Like, I don't know what you want to do in your life, but you just go, go do it. And I just, whof, man,

that whole team is just a lot. Yeah. We'll see what happens. I don't think he ends up fighting. Maybe his next fight will be under Bellator. Under Bellator's umbrella, maybe it won't. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrant Sets.

Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. With MX Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Speaking of Bellator, let's just go here. We found out Jed, just a few hours before Bellator 288 went down,

that Fadour Milianenko has booked his retirement fight. He will challenge Ryan Bader for the Bellator heavyweight title, February 4th, Bellator 290. It is a rematch from Bader's, I think it was a 35-second finish. of Fador in the finale of the heavyweight Grand Prix a few years back. But not only will that fight be happening, but your boy, Yel L. Romero, will get a shot at the light heavyweight title against the aforementioned Vadim Nemcoff. And additionally, this card is going to air on CBS network television, also on Paramount Plus

for the streaming enthusiasts. Now, Jed, I've been very hard on Bellator, and you've been very hard on Bellator as well. I feel like our harshness comes from different places because to me, and I truly mean this, and I've said this to you before, you have reacted in Jed typical ways saying this, but I'll say it again. It comes from a place of caring and love, honestly. I want them to do well and I want them to do the thing. And I think they are actually capable of doing the thing, but the promotion, they just trip over their own feet in a race of the PFL for the number two spot. their broadcasters trip over their own feet on their own podcasts. But I feel like they're at least trying to have fun and do stuff.

Like I love the Liver King, Palo Costa Pitbull thing. I thought that was absolutely brilliant to get some at least attention put on your card. I loved the even the Twista Daniel James Dust Commander thing as I talked about earlier. They're trying to at least do some things outside the box. And while they still have many issues, to me, this Bellator 290 news, the CBS thing, everything about it. I gotta say this is great A plus stuff from Bellator at least on the surface.

Your thoughts on this news and all of these things happening in the world of Bellator to kick off 2023. Bellator is the second best promotion in MMA right now. I'm comfortable saying that.

Mainly because PFL, we're going to talk about them, but they make it tough sometimes. and I'm sorry, Chachry, one is not a real promotion. I'll just never believe it until, I don't know,

now I'm a lot closer just because the whole Amazon thing with one has really actually pushed their profile in substantive ways, and they have a good roster or whatever. But I also think that they have some fundamental problems by just the way they do things. Neither here nor there. Bell's Tour is that whether they are or not,

and certainly, like Kambate and other idiot promoters want to argue these sorts of things. They are the number two promotion in the world in cache. Like if you aren't in the UFC, Bellator is the next best org. And they, to your credit, to your point and to their credit, have done some okay things this year. They're going to end up with 18 events this year, which is probably still like three more than I think would be the sweet spot for them.

but the fact that they have trimmed back on their event schedule to only doing, you know, one every one and a half a month, right, is basically what they're targeting right now, which is fine. It has meant that their cards have largely been better, and we've said it all year long as we've talked about upcoming cards. There were a couple of stinkers in there. You know, their trip to Dublin did not have a lot of high-end name work on it, but it had a lot of local, you know, a lot of people,

that care locally, they do a lot of things well. This is sort of indicative of the entirety of Bellator, or though this CBS thing right here. Getting on CBS, A plus plus work. Like that's it. CBS Paramount Plus, broad scope, push your product out.

You still have the fundamental issue that your name is Bellator, which is an awful, awful stupid name that nobody will register with or care about and doesn't have the brand cachet to matter, but whatever. that is good the Grand Prix these are good pushing a lightweight Grand Prix next year is good going on CBS

with Fador-A million Anko versus Ryan Bader is stupid it's incredibly stupid and here's why Fador is still probably one of your most marketable quantities just because it's been around a long time

he has drawn interest historically his entire career that has been a thing with him having him fight Ryan Bader serves no purpose whatsoever other than I assume feeding Fador's ego to say hey we want you to go out

you want to fight for the belt in your last fight because this is supposed to be Fader's retirement fight retired once before came back maybe he'll do the same thing again we saw this fight we saw this fight two years ago whatever it ended in 30 seconds there is absolutely no reason to believe

the exact same thing will not happen this time and well I can appreciate the core concept of we're going to take this guy and that people know and where it's his last fight we're going to send him out on his back and we are going to make a star on CBS you got Ryan Bader doing the dirty work nobody's going to do shit

like who if people know him and they know who Ryan Bader is and they don't give two dogs of a dog's tale about this man. He is useless. He is also almost 40. You are not building a promotion around this guy. You are not taking Ryan Bader and saying he is going to carry the flag for the next 50 years for Bellatory MMA. And so CBS, tune in, guys. And then if Fador gets knocked out, this is the next guy, so it's okay.

Or if Fador pulls off the miracle and gets to win, that's great heroic moment end on top confetti all around but that's not what's going to happen and instead you're going to send him out on his back for what or tell me what who benefits kre bono mike who you bono bainer is 40 years old and this is not just the problem there the problem is belator's entire heavyweight division is ratchet it is i'm looking at their rankings right now and we could have a whole separate talk on how stupid it is for the national rankings. Bader, Valentin' Friken Vassel is their number two heavyweight in the world. Czech Congo, Tyrell Fortune, who, by the way, just got got last week.

Like, this is so insane if you are going to put a CBS card. And we could do the same thing, Placrolite heavyweight, right? If Yowell wins, he is not the standard bear because he is 50. And yes, he's a Martian. And maybe the youngest 50-year-old that has ever existed in the... the history of existence, but he cannot carry your brand forward. You just crowned a new lightweight champion, and you knew he was going to win. Not a soul alive other than Patricky Pitbull's family thought he was going to retain the

belt when Usman Narmakamatov stepped in the cage. Also, his name is Norma Gmikamatov. He is related to one of the biggest stars in the sport who coaches him and corners him. And you put that dude on CBS, the 24-year-old phenom prodigy, who is going to be the standard bear and brings with him, Habib, who random dudes know, who your grandfather, who's flipping channels like CBS, I feel like I've heard that name before.

I was in that dead dude that beat the hell out of Conner at that one time. And that's how you go to store, who can lead your company forward, not rolling out old-ass dudes like this. What? It is not a hard. You get, they get the ball 90, 90 yards down field. Every time,

every time Belator puts the ball on the fucking five-yard line and cannot, cannot punch it in. They are throwing picks in the red zone like they are Trevor freaking Lawrence. And he tells me, Mike. Hey, listen, Usman could still be on this card.

They could kick off the lightweight tournament here. They could certainly do that. You put Usen and Fadar on the same card? Do you think Usman would be up for that? Inglewood, not far from A.K.A. But that is such a less of a moment and so less relevant to have him beat to defend his lightweight belt in the Grand Prix against someone, as opposed to a coronation.

Coronations are moments. They are big moments that you want to see and build towards. And it was such an obvious coronation. And you just do that. You just do that, man. And I don't. It is so, having him be third fiddle to these two light heavyweight, or the light heavyweight and heavyweight bouts, like, it is just,

it maybe it draws interest. Maybe it does enough numbers. Where is the foresight? Where is the future planning of what the hell is happening? Ryan Bader is not it. Vene Nemcov maybe is but that still seems questionable because I don't know who the hell

else you have to fight that division is bad. Light heavy weight is a bad weight. Not Belator's just in the world. It is a bad weight class. So it is, he's at least young enough that maybe this works. Like I'd be cooler if that was just the main

instead of doing Fador's last ride. But I don't, like, you have been cultivated. young talent for years, all of it wrestling-based. Try and build with that, man. Like, try and do that. Do Ralphian Stott's Danny Sabbs.

That should be a fight that's on CBS. Like, that fight should be on CBS because let's go. Like, these are guys with personality who are young enough and relevant enough. These could be the guys who hold the torch. Agent McKee can be a guy who holds a torch. You need to be investing in those people promotionally. instead of fatal.

Like, the UFC does a lot of awful, awful promotion. They are really actively bad at promoting. And you've heard me say it a million times. They never, almost never put something like this as the main event to a marquee event, right? And that's how we have to think about this. This isn't, this isn't, you know,

a regular UFC paper view. This is Fight Week. This is Madison Square Guard. Belator on CBS, that's it. It is a big event for them. And the UFC doesn't headline Madison Square Garden with Anderson Silver's retirement fight or Shogun Huah, even though he's a big name fighting some dude. That might be on the card somewhere, but that isn't the thing that's at the top of the

marquee because the top of the marquee is not for dudes retiring unless they're going to be doing it at an apex card or whatever. Like it's, this is just, it feels like they should be, they should be beyond this and they should have figured out. There's a reason we've, we have been the number or two promotion for 10 years, and we actively have the most talent

that's not in the UFC in one place. And we can gain no traction. And I feel like they have never done an internal, like an internal review. We'd be like, why are we gaining broader traction with this? Like, why we have been around a long time, And we are in the exact same spot as we have always been. And like, why is not getting better?

And again, they do some things that are good. But in every big moment, they fumble the bag, man. I get what you're saying when it comes to they're kind of back to like 2010. Like they have a strike force 2010 mentality that this worked in 2010. So let's just do it now. And back then, when they would put cards like this together, and even in the Bjorn Rebney Bellator era, they'd put these,

and even in early on in the Coker era, they would put these random freak show fights on a card, but then they wouldn't load the rest of the main card with any up-and-coming talent. They would just put shit fights on there, so you're not promoting anything. So let me ask you this, because I know the Uspen coordination,

I don't think Pitbull's the dude to really coronate him because none of this was a surprise him going out there and dominating. The only thing that was the surprise was that he didn't finish Pitbull in like the first 10 minutes of this fight. But let's just say, okay, Jed, you make a great point. Let's get Usman on this card. Do you pull A.J. McKee from the rising card

and do Usman versus A.J. McKee? That's the first lightweight Grand Prix fight and just throw it there. no because here's what you should do they honestly that's probably more likely to what they would do but here here's what they should do you build to that that fight is a fight that you build to that fight would be great if that fight has stakes and substance and not just well these two guys are two of the four best guys in a roster we're just going to pit them into each other because they don't have enough talent to just I say the you have the U.S.

see all the time it's just like just have the best guys fight because they have such a high turnover of talent that like you never know when that fight is going to lose its lesser immediately like or in a week or whatever like people names rise and fall so rapidly because they have such a conglomeration of talent

Belltor doesn't really have that so like you can be a little more selective you can build to certain things and again I didn't bring this up during my ramp because I knew I have another opportunity again getting the ball to the five-yard line and can't punch it in.

They did chef's kiss, beautiful work with A.J. McKee versus Patricio Pitbull. It was a plus, plus, plus, plus tremendous work. And then that was the pay-per-view, right?

Did they put that one on pay-per-view? No. No, they didn't. No, the Pitbull Chandler was on pay-per-view. That's right. which was awful. Was it? No.

I think that was on pay-per-view. No, that was the MSG car is on pay-per-view. I don't remember now. That was when Chandler lost the belt to Brent Primus and fell off. I can't blame them for that one because they tried. That's just the MMA gods being mean, mean, bad bastards right there. But yeah, they did a great job of building that. And I think that that honestly,

broke them because they got to where they wanted it to go to, everything lined right, AJ McKee won and nobody cared. Just nobody, a tree in the forest, baby, no one was around to hear it despite that. That is the kind

of fight that needs to happen on CBS and that's what needs, like that's how they should do this. They build towards the next time they do a CBS card, that should be Usman versus Agent McKee.

I also don't know contractually if they're like able to pull Agent McKee from the Ryden card. Like he could, I guess, say he's injured or whatever, but that doesn't feel like working in good faith with the Horizon if they pulled that move at this point. And I very much like the when they do the Verizon thing. So I don't want them to botch that relationship for this one. CBS card. I think for the next one, you build to that.

These two dudes are in the lightweight Grand Prix they're putting on this year. You stack them on opposite. of the bracket and let them go to work. They'll have some good fights in there. And that's it. You know, because the lightweight of it is good. To feed Musayev, Alexander Shabli. I mean, Benson Henderson, I guess, sure counts as relevant.

Peter Quilly can't be in this damn tournament, right? Come on. He probably is. I'm not trying to dump on the man, but he's just going to lose. I agree. But sometimes you've got to have dudes to lose. But yeah, I mean, it seems like he's probably in there. But maybe not.

I also don't know it's eight versus 16 man or if they're going to have play-ins or however they do. 16 would be brutal. 16 is a lot. But then they could do like 14 and then, you know, or 15 and Usman gets a buy. Or they, you know, they have the numbers to at least kind of pull this off in some way. So I don't think you rush this. You're going to have a lifetime to make it because you've got both dudes under contract. that they are both going to be

elite elite fighters for a very long time. I don't know. I don't know what else you put on this card. I'd have to look through their rankings or whatever and figure out how their fights go. But it's just, it feels like a thing that will maybe, it might draw eyeballs, and I have no idea how they're going to capitalize on those eyeballs.

Because that's always a thing. Anybody can put together their one event, one time, throw it, you know, get a deal with the television channel, throw it on. We saw this with affliction. Hey, we could just have fade or a fight. Somebody will back it. You can make it happen.

You have to be able to capitalize. You have to be able to build on that. You have to have other guys to promote off it and ways to draw interests. And I'm not saying this is going to make a break, Bellator. This is not a lead ex-see. They'll be fine regardless of what happens on it.

But it's, if they don't come out of this, in better place than they were beforehand, what is the point? Why not? Like, what are we doing if you are not getting better? If you're, if you're just treading water at the number two spot

and so far away from the number one spot that you can't even see them, then I don't know what you're doing as a promotion. Maybe AJ can fight on the card somewhere. Who knows? Yeah. I mean, they could do other things. Like, that's the thing.

Belator has shown they're willing to be interesting in some ways. And that's why I don't want to hate them as much as I do. But it feels like they just can't ever get the big things right. And it's like, I forget who I was talking about this with. They should be so much better because all they have to do is promote. Like if they, there's not an organization in the mixed martial arts world that promote. like anymore. None of them promote.

It is astonishing to me. The UFC is probably the closest to a group that promotes. And even that, we talk about it all the time. They don't ever do anything. They maybe push some of their big cards with ad spots, etc.

The rest of it is just, hey, we've got a card this weekend. MMA media is going to cover it. And if they don't, we will then send one of our commentators to call you out for being assholes or whatever. Like nobody is, they don't have dudes making the media rounds. Not just MMA media, but elsewhere.

Like, you can just send A.J. McKee to like Conan. You'd be like, hey, Conan's got to fill spots, man. They got a daytime talk show's got to fill roster spots of dudes to fill entertainment five days a week. You can get your fighters out there. You can get your promotion out there. You can market this in places that aren't just saying, well, MMA, like here's some people, MMA fighters are like this or whatever. Like, you can do some stuff.

And the UFC doesn't have to do this anymore because they are the UFC. They are brand. They're an ESPN plus. If you're, if you watch fights, you know who they are. If you don't and you just have ESPN, you can tune it on and there they are. I say the same thing for PFL. They get to draft a little bit off that, just as a nature of that. but they're not out there really promoting this shit.

We don't need to get into them just yet because I know they're coming. They're not promoting this paperview really either. And it's just like what are, I don't know what promoters are doing because they aren't promoting shit. Like they are not. I work in this industry, Mike, you and I work in this industry. And maybe this is just me being bad at my job. I'm hand up. I'm willing to admit that maybe that's it.

I am just shitty at my job. I never, never know when a Bellator fight is happening. Never. Like, I know that Halifian Stotz and Danny Sabs are fighting, but I know that from months ago, and I couldn't have told you the date at the time, and I'm still not even sure I could pull the date out of my ass right now. But, like, I never know when, oh, Friday's a Bellator night,

until I open until Monday I wake up, and I'm like, what's on the fight schedule this week? It's like, oh, the Nimcov Anderson, fight. The completion of their Grand Prix is this Friday. Also, it's Friday. Good, because sometimes it's Saturday. I don't really ever know what day they're

competing on in Velotor because they like to mix it up because brand relevant, they don't have any idea of brands work. It's just like, I don't, if I work in this industry and I don't know how the hell does anyone else know, man, like how you are not getting your message out there and that's marketing.

Like that all that is is marketing promotion, the actual baseline part of your company. The rest of this, I still have shit with it. I told you all about it, about what they're doing as a, you know, building a product. But like, if nobody's tuning in, like, I don't know what, I just, top to bottom, I don't know what any promotion in the world does other than the UFC. And the only reason I know what they do is because they have all this money. And it's like, yeah, we just make fights and we are the UFC.

so we have inertia. And I don't know what the hell they're doing, man. Yeah, it's very strange. It's like all these execs, PFL especially. They just come in a room and they sit down and they rah, ra, how great they are as a promotion. And they just expect everybody feels the same exact way. Well, that's just not true. And we'll get to PFL in a moment.

But I do want to touch on this. We'll jump to PFL because I am sick of just seeing shit about this. let's go back to Saturday, UFC Vegas 65. The biggest storyline from the card was not Miles Johns winning his fight. It was what Miles John said

to Michael Bisbing after the fight that his coach was suspended by the UFC. James Krause is the name circled. And boy, oh boy, Jed, people are mad at us for not reporting anything about this. We're afraid to lose our UFC credentials. We're afraid to upset our sponsors. And Mike Russell said it. So it must be true.

And people are clout chasing because of all this. And we talked about it on Saturday. I ranted about it today. You want to report folks from a journalistic perspective. There's nothing to fucking report. You know why? Because no one is saying anything. And we're not in the business of piggybacking or throwing out a story like this without getting it confirmed. And by the time you hear this, Perhaps we will have a story and more information about this. But as of now, there's nothing to report on, and we have been busting our ass trying, and no one will give us shit. So, yes, ESPN has some sources.

Yes, Kevin Ioli wrote about it. We haven't confirmed anything outside of the fact that the UFC did not suspend James Krause. This appears to be a commission thing. And from the sounds of it, from the little tiny slither of information, I've been able to get. This is more like a hey dude. There's this investigation happening. You probably should duck out for a bit.

That's why he wasn't there. I don't know. Maybe there's more to this. Like I said, I've been on the phone. I've been on the email since Saturday. Almost nonstop trying to get answers to this question. So don't say we haven't been trying to report anything. If you feel that way, you're a moron.

Where are you at right now, Jed, on this James Crowe story right now? Uh, I just always want to ask people like that. Like, what do you think? Why do you think we're not doing it? Well, because credit's, okay, that's, you know, that's not how that works. So, like, what do you, have you ever paid attention to, like, I can't speak for everybody at mhmapfinding.comcret website,

but I personally say that the UFC sucks ass on damn near every podcast I am on. and I'm on a lot of podcasts Mike it is there is not a lot of us defending the UFC ever like that's just not it's not our jobs our jobs aren't aren't in any way really defined by that either by the way

like I don't think I think people really think that there's like the UFC is going to wield some real and the UFC does some really shitty things but like if there were stuff out and we reported it or if we knew and didn't report it, the U.S.C. is not going to

give us a pat on the back and if we reported it, they're not going to do anything because it's it's news. It's reporting the news. Like they don't, it's just a lot of people have taken it is fascinating to me

how much ire this particular story has drawn up. Honestly, that's like the biggest thing to me because I got a lot of shit after our post show. A lot of people reach out to me in my Instagram and Twitter and stuff being like, hey, so

a couple of messages similar to what you were saying and the other's just being like, so James Kraus like very clearly did this legal thing and like I don't know why you can't just say this or whatever. Like I got a lot of that and I was like I responded to a couple and again

I had so many of them just like, this is not worth it. It was just like, well one, I can't accuse a man of doing an illegal thing without any proof whatsoever because that's both morally and legally not an acceptable form of behavior. And two, it's just like, I don't like, why do you guys care this much, I guess is the big one for me. I'm left to assume that it's just like due to bet on business morality or whatever. or like just guys who had a gambling stake in this and are upset that we're not like, well, this is suspicious and one man gave a statement

that may or may not be hearsay, frankly, at this point. So we're just operating under the assumption that this is true. It's just like, dude, we don't, you guys want to get mad about fake news and stuff like that? Actively reporting on this at this point would be the deaf. definition of fake twos. We don't have it. Like it's not, you know, maybe we don't have good enough sources.

I know, but that's, this is not a major story to me, but it has become so divisive for some people. And that's very, very weird to me. And I'm not, like, this could be a major story. Depending on what comes out, this could be a huge story. And I will be entirely transparent. The funniest thing that's happened all year. year. If certain things break it away, it would be maybe my happiest moment of the year if some

things went down. But there is no concrete proof that any of that happened or that we're even getting like close or that like someone's covering that up. This is just a like there's nothing. Nobody has anything right now. And at the minute it will, we'll post it because trust me, guys, the minute we find out, we will post it because apparently you guys all care a lot. And that would be great for us. Yeah, we've hit up everybody. I don't know what to tell you. It is also a really crappy week to try to confirm stuff because here in the United States, it is Thanksgiving week. And most people in high places say, I'm out of here for the entire week. We don't work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then take Thursday and Friday off. They're just like,

we're taking the whole week off. So no one is getting back. to us about anything. Back before I did this full time when I was still in corporate America or startup America, either one, this is the best week of the year every year because this was the last week of work because, and it's not even, because you work Monday and Tuesday, nobody cares about Wednesday, Friday's fake day. Thursdays, obviously, holiday. And in my, so I was before I did this, I was doing like an auto tech company,

whatever. And in the automotive industry, December is like huge because they have interviewer quotas to hit. Like so there's, so I see all those December to remember sales events. Like you got people selling cars in December because they've got a hit where they want, which meant for us in the products we were, we were working with that nobody, nobody was dealing with us. Nobody, no, no distributor, no OEM, no car dealership was and anything because they were focused on their interview objectives. So this was always my last week of work. It's like I had till Tuesday to wrap up some projects and send some emails.

And then for December, I would just hang out and hope that maybe I'd get a call back. And this is nobody works once Thanksgiving comes in. The year's done. We're all checked out until January, guys. It's senior year, baby. It's senior year in high school. You already got accepted to college. You're done.

You just don't get an F and you're fine. All you got to do is not do something that will get your admission revoked. And for us, we've got what, two UFC events and the Bellator Rising card. And that's it. And last thing I'll say about this for all the, well, you don't want to report this because UFC will pull your credential bullshit. The most information that I've actually gotten about this, like the easiest responses that I've gotten this week are from the

friggin UFC. They're responding. They have nothing. They literally have nothing. They're like, we're going through the same thing you are. We didn't even know what was happening. We just know that we didn't suspend it, but no one will tell us anything either.

What do people think the UFC's vested interest in that is? That is very interesting to me. It's like, what does, do they think that this looks bad on the UFC? this isn't a UFC problem the UFC in fact very recently made an explicit rule not allowing something like this

so like they're covered they're covered in all of this they're fine like oh yeah this thing happened and here like they would just tell us though they're like yeah doing because because we're a serious promotion

who takes these things seriously they are the the least party. They have nothing to hide. They have nothing to hide in this instance. You know who's enjoying this probably more than anybody is T.J. Dillishaw. It's like no one remembers the shoulder injury or any of that anymore because we've moved on. We've jumped to a different book altogether with all of this. So we'll see what happens. And trust me what I tell you, if anything comes from this, if we get anything from anybody, we'll let

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So plush. Our buyers have got you covered. Marshalls. We get the deals. You gift for good stuff. Yes, a great website who will be spending their Friday the day after Thanksgiving, eating leftovers and covering the professional fighters league, pay-per-view. I've drawn the proverbial long straw. I'm very excited to be on the desk for PFLPPV World Championship.

It is going down this Friday in New York, the Hulu Theater. 4999 on pay-per-view, which after taxes and all of that, because they charge taxes now, it's going to be about 56 smackarini's. What's that phase? Oh, I just realized something. We're going to talk about it, so keep on going. Okay. It's like another $10 to just go to the card at the Hulu Theater at the Garden.

So if you're anywhere in the tri-state area, if you even buy this on pay-per-view, you're a moron. You should probably just go to the card and just see. it in the arena and just spend the actual couple bucks. Because I am going to shit all over the PFL about as hard as possible in the next 10, 50 minutes. They put on a very good live show. I went to, they did three in Atlanta. All the people who worked there that I've ever interacted with lovely people, et cetera. And their live show was fun.

Like it was a good atmosphere. All the people, I talked to some like random people, met a couple of fans, etc. they all seem to really enjoy it and they should it was they put on a good live show frankly their live show was substantially better than viewing their product on ESPN plus so I would strongly encourage you if you were in New York and you got nothing else to do on Friday do that far worse ways to spend you your Friday afternoon so we have six title fights, six fights, potentially five rounds. Kayla Harrison, Lorissa Pacheco, the main event.

Brennan, Bubba Jenkins, probably the best fight on the card. Ante Delagia versus Bataeus Sheffel for the heavyweight title. And it looks like they're going to do three title fights, then sprinkle in a non-title fight, and then do three title fights because Aspen Ladd is fighting Julia Budd and a non-title fight. Let's pause. Let's pause right here to just get into the thick of me shitting all over the PFL. first you mentioned it offhandedly but very pointedly as well six title fights on their main card that you're paying for i will give them this

if you if you're going to give the pfl one thing you're going to get fifty dollars your fifty dollars going to go further than any other fight promotion because they are giving you seven fights for that fifty dollars six of which have the potential to be 25 minutes. That is very possibly to be the toughest of all hangs, and we should start right there, because I don't know if you recall that the UFC once upon a time had this issue where they booked three title fights for a pay-per-view.

All of them ran long, and they ended up not getting all of the pay-per-view in their time slot. Told that that won't be the case. PFL can go as long as they want. But when you have three possible 25-minute fights, that is 75 minutes of fist fighting, which is a shitload.

And so we're clear, that is half, half of the potential main card fist fighting that could happen on Friday. There is, I frankly love the PFL thing. I love their structure. I think it's very stupid.

but it's compelling in its own way, and it's a different way to approach MMA, and so I like that enough. Like, it gives me a different thing and a rooting interest, et cetera. You just can't do it this way. Like, it's cool, I guess, to some extent, and God willing,

you get a bunch of first round knockouts or whatever, but if you don't, if, because I'm telling you right now, Kayla Harrison Pacheco is the main event, that has a very good chance to go long because they have fought twice before, both times went to full 15. That has a very good chance to go into the championship rounds.

Lonane Boba Jenkins has a solid chance to go into the championship rounds. Maybe not. Maybe Lonane just gets them out of there because Jenkins gases. Delijah Sheffel, that's probably not going super late, but also if it goes, if that gets into the third round, that's probably going 25 because they're heavyweights. So they only have X amount of time where they are actually dangerous before that they are just big puddles of useless in there. Stevieo Olivier Obamersier, the over under on that fight is four and a half rounds and the over is the favorite.

That is almost assuredly going five, four rounds. Delano Taylor Sadaboo side. I have no idea. Could do anything in that fight. Amariak met up Rob Wilkinson, again, could easily go 25. Who the hell can say? Like that's, and then you would also still have, I don't want to do this yet. I'll do that one after because that's sick.

That is six fights that all do have a real possibility of going 25 minutes. Maybe they don't all. But holy shit, man, that's going to be a bad, bad viewing experience. That is two and a half hours right there. If all six of those fights go the full 25th. That's just in those fights. That's not including the downtime in the middle, et cetera. And you know they're going to have downtime.

They're going to go to the desk and they're going to talk and it's going to take 15 minutes for each fight. And then the walkouts and all that. We're just with those six fights. They got to get the new fighters set to go like it is. That's three and a half hours. That's three and a half hours at least. And then we have. You can watch the godfather.

You can watch the godfather or this. Which would you rather, Mike? I can watch the Batman right now in less time. The new The Batman movie. I got the Batman in the bail the other day. I did too. I did too. It was super weird.

I got that yesterday. I got that yesterday for the WGA. And I looked at it and I was like, because I got that now of this one was like, I mean, I knew that we got these things, but also do they know that both of these are on HBO Max right now? They could have,

they could have just said go to HBO Max and watch these movies. Hey, if you want to throw me a free HBO Max account for a couple months, I ain't going to be mad at you. The Elvis movie sucks. it's awesome. Oh, that's a shame because I like Boslerman.

I haven't actually seen that. I've seen the Batman. Tom, like it literally, you can't take Tom Hanks seriously. Well, that's tough. It's tough hang.

It looks like, Tom Hanks just looks like a guy in a body suit and it's a horrible makeup and you just can't take him seriously. Well, you know what else you can't take seriously, Mike?

That the PFO looked at this card and said, I know, I know that six is a lot. lot of main card fights. What if we had a seventh? This one won't be a championship fight. It's just Julia Budd versus the Aspen Ladd as a pallet cleanser between the first and second set of tournament championships.

I don't know. I don't know what we're doing, Mike. I don't know what we're doing. Explain it to me. Explain this fight being in this position on this card to me. I don't know why we got six fights and a half of our championship. 12 fights in this card and six of them could very

well take up three hours of our night. Why do we have 12 fights and why do we have one more on the main card? What in God's name are they doing? How is this not the featured prelim? How is this not the feature prelim? Because we have the Battle of the Moriases.

Yeah. Thank Christ we're getting that fight because Shane Burgos versus Maral Marius, we might have seen a death in the cage. I'm glad we're not getting that fight. I'm glad we're getting this one instead. But you should

you should downgrade this to the featured prelim. Just start the televised portion, pre-paper-view portion, just start at 15 minutes earlier and throw Aspen Ladd, Julius Budd is the featured prelim. Just do that. I don't understand why this is on the pay-per-view card. Yeah, the main card is just the six championship fights.

You do that, and you can have a brief pre-lim that has the bud lad, you've got the tumorises, and I will even for the sake of extending an olive branch, say we can do Natanzholt, Jeremy Stevens. But there is no world in which having Magamad, Magamad Karamov versus Glees and Tebow needs to happen. That fight just doesn't need to exist. Super does need to exist on this particular fight card.

And that's the better of the three openers, because I don't know why in this. God's Green Earth. Dakota Jacheva, Catherine Corrineis is on here. I mean, they're women's fly weights. Cool.

We don't know why they're on it. And I don't know why we have an amateur fight opening the show. I don't know. Well, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious why. Because they hate us and want us to spend our whole Fridays? No,

because of who is in the fight. It's awful. And I don't accept this. And I'm not okay with it, Mike. I'm not okay with anything Muhammad Ali's I know I don't yeah that's that's why

I don't want it I'm not okay with it put him put him elsewhere put him put him or do two events do back to back events do

oh that's pretty good idea Friday Saturday yes that's all that's out because then you can split up the championship outs and make so much more sense because so Mike

remember earlier when you were like what's that face and I was like oh talk about it So here's what that face was, Mike. Because I was thinking, as you were introing this, and I was like, I know I have all these various things. I hate about it.

And then I wanted to get right back on to the, and it's Friday night. And I know BFL has traditionally done Friday night stuff. But like on this, I wanted to ask you the question. And I'll still ask it before I tell you why my face existed. Do we think doing this on Black Friday as opposed to this Saturday where there isn't a UFC competitor? do we think that this is a good idea? Because I had genuine questions about the viability of this. You know, post- Thanksgiving Friday, doing this pay-per-view, does anyone give a shit?

Like, I don't, are people holiday? Like, I don't know where the world is at or why this would be a Friday and not a Saturday thing when they have no other combat sports competition this weekend. Do you have thoughts on this? I honestly don't think it matters I don't think it matters especially now that you slapped a $50 price tag on it it makes no difference

you could put this thing we're going to get to that in a minute you could put this thing on Thanksgiving and put a $50 price tag on and guess what it ain't doing any more or any less than it's going to get on Friday or Saturday in fact you can make a stronger case that if you put this on Thursday night of Thanksgiving

it would do better than on Friday because I don't think you can. I think you could. I think it would do better than Friday because I think people are just going to be done so with eating. They're just going to be sitting on their couches anyways, looking for something to do and something to watch. That's why the WWF in the 80s and early 90s until about 1993,

they would do their Survivor series on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was a mass, yeah. Even WCW used to do a pay-per-view on Thanksgiving. They did one on Christmas for a long time because they knew at that time when those would air people are done with the family stuff. They're done opening presents. They want to do something else.

They want to get out of the friggin house and do something. So they would put these on like during because the night's over. Like you're just you're just sitting there getting fat and unloosening your belt belt buckles a couple notches. Might as well watch 517 hours to fighting while you're at it. I don't think it does any difference because you slapped a $50 price tag on this. You may very well be the case. I just assume Thursday wouldn't be a good day for it. Because Thursday is that there's football day Thursday.

You've got the NFL and counter programming the NFL is just never the right answer in my head. But fun fact, this is rivalry week in college football. So Friday and Saturday. Yeah, you're screwed either way. Well, because that's where I was like, I was like, maybe Friday's right because Saturday, it'll be a bunch of rivalry games. I forgot to like actually all Friday is also rivalry football games. so and for our non-American listeners if you're still here props to you

I am speaking of this entirely in a U.S. centric because in general we favor that way also I don't know if the PFL if anyone outside of America watches the PFL like at all because why would you I just don't know why this why this would be your thing be one championship or Kambate or whatever it is

But it's just like, I don't, I forgot entirely that Friday also has like Florida, Florida State in Baylor, Texas. Like, just, they're not going to do shit on this show, man. Like, putting a $50 price on this is just criminally stupid. It's really, really bad. I'm still waiting for the moment when Don Davis goes on Twitter and says, you know what? You're the best fans in the world. We're going to give this to you for free. If he doesn't, that's a genius.

If he doesn't, that's A plus promotion. Yeah, that was my prediction from Jump Street. This is what they're going to do. You've been saying it. And if it happens, it's A plus plus to work for them. Brilliant. If he doesn't, they're going to sell seven. They're going to sell seven of these.

Because all the fighters' families are going to be at this thing. It's not like they're going to buy the paper videos. They're all going to be there. over like and I'm trying to be realistic here because under I don't even know what number you're going to say I'm taking under 5,000 under under you think you do under 5,000 yes for sure wow I can't normally I don't give I don't give a crap at all about pay per view buys like the UFC numbers and stuff I normally do not care but I am so interested in this one please the only time I've ever cared give me something

I need to know. I need to know. I, again, they've done a sum promotion, but they haven't done like a huge push. If you're trying to make this a pay-per-view, this should be every freaking commercial spot on ESPN.

It should be a PFL thing. Like that should be everywhere. You should just give Mr. Beast a hundred grand to promote this in his next YouTube video. Or whatever his cost is to say, I have no idea. You have got to get this out there. this is going to be your foray into the pay-per-view market.

And maybe the best-case scenario I can draw here is that this is them dipping their toe in to see what it's like. And they will immediately realize this is not a viable business model for us because pay-per-view is very stupid and shouldn't be a viable business model for anybody. I frankly still don't understand how the UFC does it, but whatever. So we just need to go back to giving this out for free because it's also criminally negligent. to charge people $50 to watch Ante Delajia versus Mateo Schaeffel. That is horror show level stuff. Maybe that's just all it is.

They just want to see. They're going to come back and say, we sold 2,000 pay-reviews. Okay, this isn't cool. We need to make sure this information doesn't get out because then any potential thoughts of leverage we had to make a Kayla Harrison

Chris Cyborg fight, that's gone. I don't know the goal because I can't believe the goal is to make money. Maybe, maybe, Mike, frankly, the goal is just to recoup money. That is probably the best explanation to this here is we know we are losing money on this because we are paying $6 million plus purses for this event. And this is just a way to get some of that back. Maybe that's it.

And that at least would make sense because otherwise, I don't know what the hell we're doing when, as I said earlier, Friday Saturday show. UFC does it at International Fight Weeks. You do the Friday show, you pick, I don't care. You play favorites. You say, here are the shitty title fights of our three.

These are the Friday ones. The ones that mean a little bit less. Maybe you main event that card with Lonnie and Bubba Jenkins just because Brendan might have a little juice on him. And you say, all right, but you give that one Ante Delajia and

Ahmedov, Rob Wilkinson, and Brennan Loning heads that one. And then the Saturday one, the big show, the one that's going to bring him in, that's Kayla Harrison, that's Stevie OAM,

that's Sadiwis. Like, you do, like, that just is a way better event to me. Way better to do a Friday, Saturday double header. Yeah,

that would be interesting. And a lot of tickets still unsold for this event. So I don't know if they're going to do, They got three rows, three sections in the 200s, which would probably be where I would sit. 100 plus still on sale. Not good.

This is, I just don't know how this is going to sell. We'll see. I would have never in a million years, if you were like, Mike, take a guess how much this paper is going to be. And I was going to be like, I thought it was 20 bucks. Yeah, I was going to say, PFL is going to be dumb and do $29.99.

I never even imagine. fine. That would have even been fine in concept of 50. Like, it still wouldn't have been good, but like 30 bucks feels more, more achievable than 50. Like, I am not,

I'll buy it because I'm actually covering it, so never mind. I was not to say, I will do it just to do it, just to say I'm one of the 50 people that actually paid for this damn thing. But if I am like looking at something to buy online or whatever, it doesn't take a lot.

If you're just scrolling, you know, Amazon, it doesn't take a lot to click buy it. But 50 bucks is a substantively different. If it's 20 spots, it's like, hey, it's $20 bill, but like, cool, 20 bucks, I can survive that. That's me eating out one night. I can say, you know, I'll skip going and getting a cheese steak and I'll do this instead. 50 bucks, that is hefty. That's a lot. What was the Bellator pay-per-view price?

3999. I was going to say, that was higher. I was going to say that was 2999. So 3999. Yeah, it was 3995. High depth was 4499. That's when there was a difference. So 45 bucks for the Bellator paper view.

Jesus. Jesus. Good God. These people stop doing people. No, actually, no. I was wrong. I was wrong. June 24th, MSG, 4995 was the Bellator.

SG card on paper. PFL, if I, Ray, if you're out there, if you're listening, you probably aren't, you never listened to me. I've given you just piles of good advice over the years. But if you're listening now, please, whatever Bellator is doing, do not use that as a blueprint. You're probably going to do better. If you just are like Bellator is doing it, let's not do that. You're probably going to fare better off.

You're certainly not going to be worse if you just don't do the things Bellator is doing. because trying to follow in Bellator's footsteps is, it doesn't yield promising results. True. Two last things before we wrap up. One, Hamzaa Chimaeuf making the headlines once again. Just calling out everybody. Dana White, everybody.

It seems like they want to do the Hamzaa versus Colby fight, which makes sense. They want to give this guy one more shot to make Welthruway. But ever since Alex Pereira won the belt, Hamzot's been calling him out Call him out the night he won the belt That he said let's do it in January In Brazil

And now he's saying I agreed to fight you December 10th Just say yes, let's go What do you make of this? Because to me, I feel like Pereira would get a nice bag Fighting Hamzat Shabayev I think that pay-per-view would sell very well Considering where both guys are right now

But this is outside of just getting a quick bag There's no upside to this fight for Pereira in my eyes has plenty for Hamzad. But I just feel like he gets smushed, loses the title, and that's it. You might as well just wait for Izzy,

get that bag. Then if you want to fight Shima, then you can fight him. I just feel like turning around quick to fight this guy just because you want to do something cool. Not a ton of upside for this man right now, especially after just winning the belt

in such a weird and rare unicornish way for a UFC fighter to do so. Oh, it's absolutely useless fight for Pereira. I can't think of a fight he should take less than this one. I think it's good for every other party. I think he is the only party that this is not good for. I will come out and say, I hate the Hamzat's doing this just because Hamzot is,

he's like Dylan Dennis, if Dylan Dennis was good at fighting and actually fought, and that he's just being really annoying by talking a lot. And, like, in general, fighting and backing it up. But, like, it's okay. You don't have to say things. You could just not, that'd be fine, too. Like, you could just be like, yeah, I want to, I just want to fight the winner of this

Walterweight championship that's coming up. Because he didn't need to fight, Colby. Nothing you guys he wants to fight. Maybe that happens. But his public perception could not, could be, I'm loath to say this because you know my feelings on our gender Volkanowski. He could just do the Volcanovic. I'm going to show up to the Leon Usman fight, and I'm a sick.

cage side because I'm fighting the winner. And nobody would bat an eye or say no or that's ridiculous. Like yeah, cool. You get to do that if you would like to do that. And it would just be okay to have him not in my life every second of the day. But again, why he's doing it. It's the same reason George St. Pierre came

out of retirement to fight Michael Bisping. Hey, I'm going to win that fight and it would help me a lot. So I would like to do that. Yeah. Terrible fight for Pereira. He gains nothing. Pereira needs you just hold out for an Adasania rematch. quad tetrology

and just do that because that's the most winnable and best fight for him because he already won it or you can fight Robert Whittaker but that doesn't come with nearly the millennia's fighting out Izzy again does but I think

on the UFC I'm trying to make this happen because here's the path Mike you do I believe Hamzok can make the Walter Wade limit I do too I don't think we need to play

that game though. Right, because there is the concern that it could happen again, right? Like you can't say that he's guaranteed to make it. I believe he can, but there's now the risk is clear having blown and by a lot. When instead, you just make

this. You still get your cake because Hamzat's still a champion because he will roll up Pereira. And then you can do Hamzat versus Izzy. And that fight does all of the numbers of all of the times.

And when once Pereira has now lost, you just go to him and you're like, hey Alex, you know, you have forever been a few middleweight champion. You should try and win a second belt because I would very much like to pay money to watch you fist fight Yuri Brehashika if Yeri gets past your coach and mentor Glover Tashara. And that is like that's the, because if Yeri beats Glover in the rematch, if Glover wins, I think he's going to retire. That's my guess. Maybe he doesn't, but I think of Glover wins, he's going to retire with the belt on top.

So if Pereira fights Hamza, loses. You say, light heavyweights dumpster fire and no one likes this division. Let's just do Pereira, Glover's chosen acolyte, the same way we should have done with Islam. For when Habib, the UFC should have just said, Habib, pick your air. Pick your heir and successor. It's Islam. He is going to fight Dustin Porier for the lightweight championship of the. the world. They didn't, we got how we got.

But they can do it, go over, say, you're going to pick Pereira. He is going to fight. Yere, the guy you just beat, that's a very sellable fight. That fight rules. And then you get the middleweight of Izzy versus Hamza. Everybody wins. We all make all the money. I'm a genius, Mike. I expect all the Otnoa points.

Not going to happen, but I know, but it's so much better. You play devil's advocate so well. But you know what? Listen, Pereira could just sit back anyways, and if Yerry beats Glover, he could just dump the middleweight title and be like, Hamza, go fight Izzy. And I'll just go fight this, dude.

Honestly, if I am Pereira, that is actually my path forward. If maybe, I actually kind of like his chance to answer, Robert Whitaker, but I also just don't think that does much for him. Like, I mean, it does in the hardcore fans' eyes do a lot for him, but it's not, Whitaker is a beloved hardcore fan that is not like a, broader draw.

So it's not going to do huge numbers. The easy tetrology obviously does. But at some point, don't you just get tired of beating one man's ass over and over again? Vogue certainly did with Holloway. Maybe Pereira doesn't mind. I think the best thing for him

would just be like dismissively dump the belt and be like, yeah, I really just wanted to prove to you guys I'm better than this jackass at middleweight. I'm going to go up now to 205 because I think I got to be Erie too. Izzy, you can have my leftovers. Good luck, bud. That would be, it would be boss shit for him to just be like, yeah,

Izzy, you can take this back. I don't want your trinket. I'm going to go get this other one and go chase this guy. And you straight take any bit of power away from Izzy too. Yeah, absolutely. It's all in Izzy. It's ball's at Izzy's court. Balls at his court. Ferrer's like, no, it ain't.

I'm the champ. Now I'm not the champ. So if he wants to fight me again, you bulk up and go to, you come up to me. You come up to me and do it. Plus, if he goes up and gets the heavyweight belt, then it's just like one more dagger to stab. And as he'd be like, hey, remember when you failed at this?

I didn't. So, yeah, looks like I'm fighting John Jones and you're not. So, yeah, it's just like, he could just make an incredibly lucrative career

out of just shitting on easy. And it would be quite fun. This is why we do these shows. We work this stuff out and we make ideas better than how they're originally presented. I've been saying that for a little stuff. I just do just do this. Be way cooler for you to be a light heavy weight.

And who cares about you fighting Polo Costa middleweight? Like it's sure. I'm not going to say no, but it also isn't the funniest or coolest outcome, which is you just ruining Izzy's whole career. Oh, bad. Last thing, can see, we hit record.

I knew we'd fill time. I didn't know how we're going to do it, but we did it. Thanksgiving is upon us. As this drops, it is officially Thanksgiving. in the United States. What do you thankful for, Jedbushu,

in this wonderful sport of ours, mixed martial arts? We can go beyond that if you want to talk, you know, the usual stuff like family and friends, but more so MMA as well. What do you thankful for? Well, I'm first and foremost thankful for MMAFind.com

great website because for whatever reason, my career is now doing this shit, which still boggles my mind on a on a near daily basis that i get to do this for a living so uh that is is will always be will be number two obviously family family comes first you know you know like you're you're a man of family yes family comes first uh but number two is in we find another com great website and all the people they're in just a great team of people who are afraid of the ufc and won't report things so we can

keep our creds great work from all of us Beyond that, you know, if I had to pick like a fighter or a thing specific to the MMA world that I'm thankful for, trying to think who it is. And frankly, and this is, maybe this is recency bias, who can say? I think the thing I'm most thankful for is to Vadim Kempoff. Because again, Corey Anderson is not the best light heavy weight in the world. And considering the copious amounts of shit I talked about that dude, that is very helpful. for me and the way I go about my life.

I will also say thank you to Wiley Zhang, who did not bankrupt me by beating the hell out of Carlos Sparza. And thankful to Valentina Shuchenko, who did not bankrupt me by edging past Tyler Santos, and thankful to Islam Makachev, who, if I've talked a lot of shit about Corey Anderson, I talked a lot of shit in favor of Islam and how he was going to absolutely,

thump up Charles Olivera. And I will admit to having some nerves, as that fight was about to kick off, that I was about to be made to eat a whole lot of crow for the rest of time. And then I did not even a little bit, because he, in fact, thumped up Charles Olivera. So thank you, Islam. Thank you, Habib, and all of your ilk. You guys are doing great work, and I'm excited to see where Dagestan and Sambo take us in the year 2024.

I thought for sure you're going to add Dustin Poirier to that list for beating Michael Chandler and just proving that just felt good yeah I would lie if I said that didn't feel good but it's I'm I'm mellowing on my not my Chandler hate but the

I guess I guess yeah I'm mellowing on my hate of Michael Chandler I still don't like the man but it's less it's hard to hate him when he loses because he loses he's only of not mostly when he wins because then he gets a microphone

in front of him and that's when he's terrible. But he didn't so it was okay this time. I'm actually I'll say I you mentioned a lot of names that that I'm with you on. I'm actually going to say Dustin Porre is one of those

guys because he is almost the definition of the sport in 2022 because you think he's one thing And then people think, and you even think to yourself sometimes when you're doing these rankings last year, are we ranking Dustin Porre too high?

Is he just, are we just a victim of recency, him beating Connor? Like, are we overrating him? And then he loses to Charles and we're thinking to ourselves, yeah, maybe we did. And then you see what he has done this year and not even fighting. Just what he's done is interviews have been compelling, goes and fights Michael Chandler, great fight, just thumps the man.

Like Chandler had his moments, had a great second round, but every time Dustin Porre touched Michael Chandler, I mean, it was a damage bar just dwindling. You saw Chandler's face just get uglier and uglier

with every jab he threw. And then he goes out there and wins and just says the things he says. And you're just like, you know what? Maybe we didn't overrate him. Maybe he just is that good. And then hearing his fellow UFC, I'm not going to say,

co-workers, because technically they're not employees, but just hearing what... Oh, contractors. Yeah. Just hearing what other fighters say about him, what other media members say about him.

Even what John Anick says about him. To hear John Anick, he's a freaking UFC commentator. He's going to glow about everybody. And sometimes you can just tell. Like, John's just like, yeah, I'm just saying the thing that I need to say. But when you mentioned Dustin Porre,

the dude's eyes just light up. And he's like, he made that list. talked about which fighter, if you're at a dark alley and you have to have somebody with you in that dark alley against a gang of ruffians, who are you going to pick? And Yuri Perashka seems to be a popular guy. John X, like Dustin Poria seems like a pretty cool dude to have by your side here because he's going to get in there and get in the thick of it. May not win, but he's going to get in there in the thick of it with you. So I, I'm thankful for you,

Dustin Poria, because perhaps I have not given not just your current spot enough credit, but perhaps I haven't given you enough credit for everything you've done these past few years because you don't have to do shit. You can just leave the sport right now and your legacy is cemented as a fucking gangster. I mean, yeah. All the all-time great dude,

all the great charity work he's done. Probably one of the five best lightweights of all time at this point. I would say so. I mean, it's tough. That's a very competitive division. But he certainly has a case if he's not locked in there and just keeps being good. At some point, I thought he'd fall off. He keeps still.

I thought maybe the old verified might be him losing it. But I'm not sure that that's true. Like he just seems to still have it and continues to be a great guy. Hell yeah. Yeah. Love some Dustin Poier. Stay away from Armand Sarukian. and your career is going to be just fine, my man.

Dude, I would, I will bet you a substantive amount that I mean never fights Armand Sarukian. Why would he? Why would he ever fight Armand Surukin? I agree. Surrugian might be the best of the crop of rising lightweight talent. In fact, probably it is the best of that crop of rising lightweight talent. He also happens to have the worst personality of that crop of rising lightweight talent. And as a result, he is probably.

screwed and at the back of the pack of like Gamrot, Turner, Fizziv, Sruke and does just doesn't have, I don't know, maybe Demerius. I think he does. I think he actually does. He just doesn't get a lot of opportunities. He's a pretty interesting cat.

It is not shown through at all thus far. And that is going to kill him. Well, maybe that'll change when he, he's also 24 or whatever. So maybe he's needed some time. Listen, when he goes, 5 and 0 in 2023 and wins the title. He's,

well, he won't, he won't fight for the title in 2020. I was say, that is a bold prediction. Zerukian Mokachev is going to rule. At the end of this, at the end of this next year, that is a bold prediction. We're going to be feeling about Surukia on

at the end of next year, the way we felt about Mokachev at the end of last year. He just needs a shot. He just needs a shot. But we'll see. We'll see. We'll have plenty of time for predictions. But I think we'll see.

we're done here. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. Jed, any final thoughts for the peeps before we say goodbye? Uh, no. I already had one soapbox and I don't want to get another one about the World Cup. But yeah, you know, guys have a wonderful holiday. I love you all so very, very much. And particularly you, Mike, who's, you know, I know your best friendship is taken, but, you know, I like to be on the short list. You are. You're like me and a. or like Marshall and Ted from how I met your mother and you're you're the Barney Stinson. You're the N.P.H. You're the NPAH. The cool guy. I think that that character gets to exist on television if that show was made today.

You're probably right. I feel like that character does not get through corporate sign off in in 2022. Yes. But at least from a friendship standpoint. Yeah. I think you're right there. Exactly what you're saying. Terrific friend. Terrific friend. It's the salt of the earth.

Yes. And I'm thankful for you too, Jed, because only you can come on here. We can just hit record, be like, what the hell are we going to talk about? And then go for 90 minutes. It's kind of in the awkward process. And I can just be mad because they have all the tools.

And it's just like watching a monkey, like, throw poop at itself. I don't know what you're doing. Just like watching. a small child not understand how to fit the square block into the square circle and just hit it into the star-shaped one over and over

again. What are you guys doing? And with that, beautiful, beautiful analogy, we are done. We'll see you next week, back on video, back live next Thursday, 1 p.m. Eastern. For Jen Bishu, I am Mike Heck. We'll see you back next week between the links. Good night, everybody.

We love you guys. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thank you.