MMA Fighting - BTL | Tom Aspinall vs. Ciryl Gane, UFC 321 Burning Questions, More

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

The UFC heavyweight title reign of Tom Aspinall kicks off Saturday in the main event of UFC 321 as he defends his newly-minted undisputed title against Ciryl Gane. A lot has been made about the pressure Aspinall has heading into the fight, but is it a little bit overblown? Or, does Aspinall truly have more weight on his shoulders than most in UFC history heading into a fight? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses what's at stake for the rising heavyweight star, the pressure on Gane, and where an Aspinall loss would rank in all-time shocking moments. Additionally, topics may include Din Thomas' comments about the co-main event for the vacant strawweight title between Virna Jandiroba and Mackenzie Dern, Umar Nurmagomedov vs. Mario Bautista, other burning questions from the card, the full UFC 323 lineup being revealed, the fallout from UFC Vancouver, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So if you want to submit your iconic voice, let us know. But yes, it is UFC 321 Fight Week. It is, I thought it would come in with a little bit more of a roar. It's kind of coming in with a whimper, if we're being honest, after Media Day, one of the most uninteresting press conferences we have ever seen in the history of the UFC. But hopefully by the time we get to Saturday, the action will pick up, the excitement levels will go up. But that's why we're here today. We're here to talk to you.

We're here to get your excitement juices flowing. And who better to do that than the man who is joining me today to answer all of your wonderful questions, Mr. No Gray area, the hot take kid. apparently not only is he the climber of climbers, but he's going to be climbing a lot this Saturday, the one and only Jed Bishu. Hello, Jed, how are we doing? You know, it's been a morning. I'm not the biggest NBA guy, Mike,

but the season kicked off last night, you know, tuned in for a couple of things. Wimby's an alien, all that good stuff. And then you wake up this morning and all hell is broken loose. As the FBI's arrest. people. Like literally right before we went on, I'm trying to like read through some of this reporting

stuff. And it's, uh, who the NBA really just kicked things off in a major way in the last 24 hours. And I guess their fights happening this weekend. Yeah, it seems like even more of an afterthought now with this NBA news and Chauncey Billups getting arrested, who's a freaking head coach, foreign Boston Celtic as well. So that hits a little different. but this is wild. Tera Rose allegedly just straight up fixing games.

As best I can tell, the Chauncey Billop stuff seems to be related to poker and not basketball, though the poker allegations are also bad, certainly. I'm not trying to dismiss those things. But the Terra Rosier allegations are just straight up like throwing games for like point shaving accusation, which is, I mean, opens up the whole kettle of fish that gets interesting as like sports betting has become such a big part of the culture in general. And, uh, you know, I, I tell you what, Mike, I can't wait to watch the next inside the NBA. I cannot wait to hear Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal talk about this one. Yeah. I mean, maybe they should have Dean Thomas on too,

because that's a man who's just honest with his assessment. Dean Thomas and Daniel Cormier also like out and for Anthony Smith straight like work for the UFC and I like Dean. I've been on shows with him pretty recently. I do. He's the man. Like Dean's great. And I've never met DC, but DC also seems like a, but like, and I feel a lot worse for DC. I don't know.

Should we just get into that? I don't know how we're doing things today. Yeah. We're just free flowing here. And if people, I mean, we're going to answer questions obviously. But, you know, yeah. Let's just reflow. So DC and Dean Thomas, and to a lesser extent, but also still true, Anthony Smith, all are to some level UFC employees who were like on air, either intentionally or unintentionally, trashing active fighters, which is never good.

Like that's, it's not professional, frankly. And like it, you know, in a lot of other sports leagues, that would be there would be punished. handed down. DC, I do feel bad for because pretty clearly he's like this is not a public statement. This is a statement off on as an aside to Tom Aspinall after they've done their media thing. Like, hey man, like, dude, you, you've got an opportunity to really do something special. This is crazy.

And he got hot miced. And so frankly, uh, bad, bad look on Tom. on his team to put something that pretty clearly was not meant for public consumption out into the ether. And I, you know, I hope somebody asks them about that straight up because that's just poor form. So I feel bad for DC who's not like trying to, but like Dean and Anthony Smith, while I'm not necessarily even disagreeing with them or to be clear or just like, man, co-main event this week, kind of garbage. the women's straway championship is a lie and then like anthony smith is also like oh really riding the line between what you should because here's what i will say dean thomas had one statement and that statement again i don't necessarily disagree with um still something

you probably shouldn't say as like a as a person who at some point will have a professional working relationship with the person you were stating this about but But, you know, he, it was a, it was a place of honesty that's not necessarily wrong or inherently negative to say, yeah, these women fighting for the vacant belt probably aren't the real champion, even if they're going to have it. Anthony Smith just straight up was like, it's worst case scenario of Vernor Janzaroba wins this fight. the UFC can market McKinsey Dern, wink, wink. If Verna wins, I believe the direct quote is that's a marketing nightmare. You, bro, you can't say that. Like, you're going to go on broadcast.

Like, there's a real world where Anthony Smith will be on like an analyst desk. And Verno Girobo, a strawweight champion comes in post win to talk to Anthony Smith. And like that's, that's why you can't say that. Everybody's doing a lot of great stuff in the last 24 hours is what I'm getting. that. Yeah, I mean, respect for the honesty, I guess, and just saying what you feel. But yeah, I was very surprised that Dean's just coming out here, just firing off these takes. Like, I thought, I thought his takes would extend to, I still can't, I still think he has the highest take of the history of the show when you said that Macy Chesson has the best chance of beating Kayla Harrison

in a fist fight. He could be right. We don't know. I don't think he's right. But I don't think so. that's the thing it's a great take like the dean thing is a great take like that's how you do step a smith i'm a connoisseur i think everyone here could at least acknowledge this is my realm it's a great take by dean stephen a smith isn't you know in the booth calling the game like the lebron games or whatever and so that but again dean on its face is it necessary it's disrespectful right, it just is. And they even joked about it in the thing where it's like he prefaced it by saying, I mean this with all the respect I can.

And they're like, yeah, whenever you, it's the Ricky Bobby meme of like, I said with all due respect, you can't be mad at me. It is disrespectful, but it's not like inherently mean, right? Like mean-spirited because it is, there's truth to it. It is like, hey, this is a vacant title fight. And nobody alive, I, I, even shit, even McKinsey, Dern and Jirin will probably would acknowledge like, yeah, this doesn't mean as much because Zhang Wei Li is not the person we are contesting this fight over.

The Anthony Smith part of it is to me the worst of them. Of all three of them, Anthony Smith is the worst one where he's just straight up like, UFC better hope Verna doesn't win because I don't want to say the reasons he's clearly implying. Yeah. But at the same token, like look what they just did at Rio. Like that card was electric. So I, I.

Yes, McKenzie Dern is the better case scenario for the U.S. Yeah. Like it just, it's clear as day. You can say that without saying it in the way he said it. Yeah, he said it in a super weird way. But I mean,

just if Verna wins, just go to Rio with her, go to Brazil, like put her in these big spots. And the whole Zhang situation, like, I spoke of McKenzie last week. And even she was like,

yeah, if they had me fight, Zhang Wei, like on this card like i wouldn't have been ready for it i wouldn't have been ready but if i win the belt it seems to have like a power up makes me a little bit better so then i would be ready if she wants to do it in june at the white house or something if she loses to valentina or whatever like then let's do it but yeah it's it's a it's a crazy fight this this clearly was probably was probably this is more like abu-dhabi being like hey you promised us like stacked cards or and or two title fights

You didn't give us the stack card. Can you just like give us a second title fight? And they just threw this one on there to honor that deal. And yeah, for those wondering what the actual quote was, this is what he said on on paper with Anthony Smith. Dean says, I mean this with all due respect. I'm trying to be as respectful as possible.

But has there ever been a more insignificant title fight in the history? Not maybe in the history, but in the last recent memory, you get where I'm coming from, right? No one seems to even care or have batted an eye at this fight. That's the thing. You just straight up shouldn't say that as a person who will have a professional relationship with the, like that's, that you just should not do that. And I think even Dean, you know, and in the light of day would be like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that. I probably wasn't like, I didn't need to get this takeoff for the thousands of people who listen to this podcast.

I could have just been like, yeah, you know, there are better ways to get that moat, that. message across. But I do, it's a good take because it is true. Like we're talking off air. This card in general, it feels underwhelming. And I like the card. It's not underwhelming to me. I am intending to enjoy Saturday.

But there is no juice to this. Even amongst the hardcore fans, it doesn't feel like, like there's a lot of excitement about this weekend. Mike Bond told Dustoporia UFC is praying during wins. And that's the thing. nobody saying they're wrong. They're not. The UFC is absolutely,

and to Anthony Smith's credit, while there were points where he verged on not ideal, he did lay out a lot of good reasons why. And if he could have just done that instead of the other part of it, like you can just big up McKinsey Dern as a marketing success and not trash vurnergenerobo, right? Like, that's the way to do it. And he is correct because outside of the thing that we don't need to mention because it's crass.

Like McKinsey Dern is just a much more popular fighter. McKinsey Dern, you know, is, I don't know if she has Brazilian citizenship. I think she does, right? But like she's American and Brazilian. The whole thing about not having an American champion really is there, you know, aside from Kayla, get another American champion, but you can take her to Rio as well. Right? Like she there are she is obviously the better business choice.

And that's it's it's one thing for Mike Bond to say the UFC is or for us to say that. It's another for somebody who again might be in the desk and they bring somebody up after and thing like. Because we bring this back to DC. And I think everybody's on the same page. DC got kind of hard done by the aspirational. Like I don't blame DC for a private conversation being blasted out. That's tough, but thing, but like, there's absolutely a world where it gets super awkward on Saturday where D.C. is the guy who does the post-fight interviews. He's going to go in.

If Jailton Al-Meda beats Volkov, it's not like Al-Meda is not going to know this has happened. Like, that's going to be weird. And so if you're Anthony Smith, if you're Dean Thomas, you shouldn't be putting yourself in position to have similar awkward conversations. What a time. What a time for we transition over to Paramount. Yeah, very interesting. It was an incredible 24 hours in the sports news cycle. Just a whole lot of wild shit.

It really has been. All right. Let's go. Also, we're going to loop very quickly because I just saw this on the old Twitter machine. Of course, ESPN's talking about the NBA scandal, obviously. And an incredible bit that I don't blame them for, but is optically hilarious. The bottom scroller has the ESPN bet promo. and then they just get rid of it during the same.

They just blank out the whole bottom scroller to get rid of the SBNet thing. God, it's incredible. I love this so much. I just saw a tweet, Mookiee Alexander, our old friend reposted it from Terry Rozier back in August of 2012. I bet. Yeah.

Oh, man, it's going to be a good day on NBA Twitter. Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. All right. Let's go to the peeps again. If you get the super chats, you get to cut the line.

So let's go. We already answered some of these questions already, just with the opening segment there. Joseph asked, we know the last paper view card before we go to Paramount, but not the bout order is UFC 323, a good card on paper or is a, or is it a transitional card on paper? So let me pull this one. I'm pulling it up right now. I believe it's both in my recollection. Yes.

So a whole bunch of- I'm correct. Yeah, a whole bunch of fights just got made a, official we confirmed a bunch of these all ahead of time we'd already done it to confirm them i think the only two new ones from yesterday for us was uh macy barboreni silva which had been talked about and then the jalen turner uh yeah edson barbosa is the big one so here's the the full card mirab versus yon two for the bannamway title pantosha versus van for the flyway title sehudo versus talbot Boehovic versus Guscoff, Moreno versus Tyra,

Bartra Silva, Abdul Malie versus Tricoli, ZM versus Satikoff, what a fight that is. Hashtag Lightweights. Speaking to Lightweights, Grant Dawson versus Manuel Torres. Really interesting fight. What fun. Terrence McKinney versus Chris Duncan. That's very fun.

And then we get real middle wady with Marvin Vittori, at least fighting Brutio Fajara. And Vittori was very fun in his last fight. Edson Barboza versus Jalen Turner, great fight. Ebo Oslan versus Iwo Baranuski and Mohamed Naimov versus Myron Santos. That is UFC 323. So yeah, I think it's a good card, but it's also compared to what the paramount, like the January paramount quote unquote numbered card is,

this is going to look like UFC 321 compared to that card. Oh, yeah. I think this is a really good card. I like it. I think it is the U.S. He had a really tough job here of walking the line. And nobody ever directly asked Dana this in his last scrum. And I was really like, it would have been the question I would have asked him.

And I'm sure he would have given it a terrible answer. I'm like, we always do our best or whatever. But like, the truth is they're in a tough situation because understandably, you want to make a big impression. because, you know, your first impression is your lasting one. So the debut Paramount card wants to be big. They did it with everybody. Every transition they've done, they've tried to go big on it to set the tone. And that's understandable and reasonable, right?

We can all get that. The same time, you still have a contractual obligation through the end of the year to ESPN. And so you can't just mail it in, right? And for the last paper view, you can't just totally surrender and be like, oh, whatever, here are the dregs. And so it's a fine line to walk there. It's the same as anybody. You put in your two weeks notice, do you, you know, do you just dogg it?

Do you not do anything? You don't want to do that. That's a bad look. But you're not going above and beyond when you put in your two weeks. Nobody's picking up new work in their last week at the job before starting a new one. So, like, I think they kind of threaded the needle perfectly here. You get two title fights that I think one of them is very, very good. The co-main event, Alessandro Pantoja, Joshua Vintan, is very, very good.

The Marab-Pyodian fight probably isn't great because we've already seen it, and I think we all have an expectation of what that fight's going to be, right? But it's objectively decent, and it's objectively cool because Marab is attempting to do something historic, something that's never been done before. So you're getting something pretty decent as your top two here. Bogdan Guskov Jan Blahovich, that's just sort of like the foundational piece to any kind of main card of a pay-per-view. Like, yeah, it's not going to blow your hair back, but that's rock solid. Could be decent and certainly meaningful.

Brandon Randam Tatsura Taira rips. Stone Cold rips. A fight is awesome. And also serves as important, like if Joshua Vann or. somebody gets hurt, we can slot in one of these dudes, totally rips. Suhudo Talbot, weird one, but like maybe the retirement fight for Henry Suhudo versus this guy who has the potential to be a pretty big star for the promotion, great fight, Jalen Turner Edson Barbosa, and then like you get to the undercard, Turner Edson Barbosa

is weird, could be fun, Mbby Cibarber, Krenei Silva is a big important fight, uh, Grant Dawson, Manuel Torres, good fight. Like, it's a really, really solid. card. It's not over the top, but it was never going to be. And so I think it's a really, I don't remember what the phrasing of the question is, but I'm really looking forward to the December pay-per-view already. Yeah, it's a good card. It has zero casual appeal, unfortunately.

And, but for us, we like it. We like it. Now, obviously, January is going to be different because it's a whole new way to watch the UFC. And we assume Iliott's a poor is going to be a part of that in some way, shape, or four. Sure looks like it. It's a baddie pimblet, uh, by all accounts. So yeah, that's, that's, I mean, that's the norm.

And, and let me just, let me just tell everybody, especially if you're a newer fan and Jed will attest to this. The first, once we get past UFC, like, we're going to be throwing 99 on the corners with a nasty, like, we're going to be Pedro Martinez and 99 for the first six months of this calendar year. Maybe the first seven. That's actually not even true. You don't think so? I think we're going to be red hot up until after international. flight week and then it's going to go back to business it's going to go back to this you're forgetting one really important thing here mike uh i think that i think january and maybe february we're

we're coming out hot uh it's going to be the 300 problem where everyone wants on white house white house is going to be a big big event they're going to have to rob peter to pay paul in some essences. And so you'll get maybe good main events, right? For the numbered events in the year. But like those those main cards are going to be a little bit worse because they are just trying to shove talent towards the White House card because the white house card. Because the white, the white house card is the tent pole.

It's the everything of 2026. And so in the same way in the lead up to 300, we were like, well, $2.99 ripped and was great. No mistake. but like there were a lot of apex cards there was a lot of poop and we all acknowledged like yeah it's all going to be a little bit worse but 300's going to be worth it I think the same thing's going to happen next year we'll start hot we'll have a lull white house will come the lull afterwards maybe finish hot yeah I mean you do make an interesting point because I mean it's not even it's not even the 300 problem right now it's the last quarter of the year problem

look at all the title fights. Like look at all the title fights we have had from UFC 320 to there to here, two at 322, two at 323. And then the rumors are two at 324. That would be the paramount one. What's the second? Kayla. Oh, okay.

Well, that'd be cool. I don't know if that's true or not, but the rumor is Kayla. All right. I mean, that makes sense. But is she going to be able to turn around five months to fight at the White House? because you assume she's going to be a part of that. Five months is probably enough. That's the thing.

Like Kayla can only fight in January to 35. That's tough. Five months is enough. She can only fight in January and or or June. She can't do January. She can't do like February in June. That won't work. She's got to go at the beginning of the year and then we could do the White House card.

Yeah. Or else she's just waiting. February could end up being a really tough one because it's going to be Volcanovsky more than likely headlining. And it doesn't seem like it's going to be against Murphy. So it appears unless they run Movesar in there, which. Let's go, Mavsar. Which I absolutely doubt.

It seems like, God, and I hope they don't throw Diego Lopez back in there. I just think that's insane. Like, go win another one. Go beat Al Jermaine Sterling. And then you get another one. But, I mean, you just fought for the belt not that long ago. And you didn't win. And yeah, you beat John Silva, but you got to get another.

So who does? Who does what they're doing? But I don't know how they're going to stack that one up because that's just going to be a, it's probably going to look like what we just saw with Perth. We're just a bunch of local fighters. Maybe that's the return of Tai Tuivasa. You know, Lazy Bed makes an interesting point, Mike. One, I think we all acknowledge that it's kind of silly Kayla is even cutting to 135 now that she's won the belt. But Lazy Bed is out here.

Kayla makes one cut to 135. She fights a featherweight at the White House card. I don't hate that. Who should get a fight in January, though? Amanda. Who should get to fight the White House? Amanda again, just at 145. Look, that's the bigger issue is who does she fight after Amanda?

Because either Amanda wins and then what their shit is. I guess Amanda Pena or Kayla wins and then who does she fight, Mason Chase on? Oh, no. Oh, no. Shut out, Dean. Dean will put that fight over. Like, it's the greatest fight that UFC's ever made. Like, he will, he will dance around with that take.

RS 40 from 1 to 10, what are Batista's chances against Umar? Last year, Rebetsky versus Oralbao was the fight of the night at UFC 308. Same story versus Klein. Yeah, that fight's going to be great. But I think the more important question is, one to 10, what are the chances you're giving Maya Batista against Umar and Namanga Madoff? You know what? Let me pull up our good old friends.

at Fandu right quick to see where the odds are today. The odds today have Mario Batista as a plus 420 underdog with the comeback on Umar at minus 650. Uh, that implies basically like an 85% win percentage chance for Umar. And I think it's 90. I think Batista wins one out of 10 fights. Um,

and that might be a little generous. frankly. The issue I have is it depends because I saw I haven't seen all the stuff but I did see that Dana basically implored Umar to be exciting this weekend. That's interesting. That makes interesting to me. Yeah, that kind of can make it more interesting because if Umar is just trying to get a dub, uh, he's going to tackle Mario Batista with ease and just sit on him because Mario Batista has never been a great defensive wrestler. Like he, who he fought somebody like two fights ago who took him down a bunch too um who's not umar no like so if umar's just

trying to get the dub uh he's definitely going to win but if that holds sway you know maybe like maybe he comes out and bangs and mara batista in a striking match i still might pick umar frankly but he's got a way obviously a way way way better chance in a striking contest against umar so um You know, we'll see. I'll give it a three, a three. I'll give him a three. I think he has a better chance that people think. But I don't think he has a chance enough for me to like take a,

take a, uh, a dog shot at him. Uh, I do have a bet on Martin MTC though. I took the points spread bet plus five and a half plus 100. I see two judges to feel like he won one round. And I think there is a world where he could do that. So I don't, I think 30, 27, 29, 28, 28, 29, 28, I win. Yeah. climbing.

Umar's one of my three climbs. I got him in at the beginning of this week before way more money poured in on him. And he got much bigger. How much does Umar need this fight? Like, when we talk to like stakes on this card, where does he rank for like must win situations? Probably three or four. I think Cyril Ghan is the most must win of the weekend, undeniably. This is his third crack at the undisputed belt.

I think he's got he he's the most must win. Dern probably is number two just because like she finally got here. Everybody is begging her to win functionally. And if she doesn't, if she can't win this fight, she's never winning the belt probably like more than likely. And so she really needs it. And then Umar,

I think is right behind that, frankly. Um, just, if Mara Batista wins, it'll be a full credit to him for just being a good fighter. but Umar, man

Umar needs it And I think he's The thing I keep coming back to And this is a stupid way to look at it admittedly I want to just I know that this is dumb lizard jedd speaking This is lizard brain jedd And that's okay

He was beating marab He's the only dude who's like Been reasonably competitive with Marab Marab is arguably the greatest Bantam weight of all time I don't think so, but if he beats Peoria on, he is. It won't be a debate if he beats Peoria on. The debate is over.

He's the greatest bandwit of all time. And he is the only dude who's really made him work. So yeah, I think that, I think that dude is the one B of bantam weight. I'm going to pick him against anybody. So I'm on the complete opposite side of the fence here. I think, like, I truly believe, like the way you look at Dern fighting very, is the way I looked. In hindsight, I look at Umar fighting Marab in January.

Because he got, he fought like 50% Marab that day. Like that was not full on Marab. That was, I was dinged up. I should not be fighting. The UFC hates me. They're not going to wait because of Ramadan like it's take it or leave a time. And he was at least Dana painted the picture because we knew it was going on back then. We knew what the relationship was like to the UFC and Marab.

And Dana's even come on and said it. You know, I didn't like Marabreux back then. but he's grown on me and that's just where it's at but back then the relationship was at a really tough place and marab even told me like heading into the fight like i'm not going to tell you what's going on with me right now like you'll find out after the fight but like i got shit going on right now and his coach has even said since then like i don't think you guys understand like how bad marab was heading into that fight like he was in rough rough shape and he still won so i felt like if umar is going to beat this man he had to do that he had to do that he had to

do it then. Like, I know he broke his hand in the fight, but I mean, and he was probably a little dinged up to every fighter is. But Barap, that man just ain't beat Mara, brand. He just ain't. I just don't get it. As they ever rematch, I'll pick him to beat him. I can be wrong. I wouldn't bet my life on it. I'd still pick him to beat him. I think if the UFC is really smart here, they wait as long as they can to run this one back. They let Umar win at least another one if he wins on Saturday, maybe two. Dude, if pants and Marab both went at 323, you booked that fight. And that's me, the guy who never wants you to do Champcham fights saying it.

But you book that one. At that point, Marab has done four. I mean, it's less important than Marab's done enough because he's the guy giving a shot or whatever. But he's got four title defenses. Pants has five, right? Like, Pants literally has beaten everybody who could be a contest, like a contender. Same with Marab.

You do it. Yeah, you do it. You just book it. It's the only fight that makes sense. you book it and umar fights pick a dude you know whoever he's fighting peyote yon or song yada i'm trying like i don't other people are booked currently fuck make umar beat the shit out of amends a hobby to get his shot that's fine yeah that that actually is not a bad idea honestly it's fine like i i don't think you should give umar unless like he does something truly spectacular

and even then you still shouldn't give it he had his shot he lost he's got a win two to get back that's always how i felt and so i think it's the same and if pants beats joshua van you run that fight that's your marab's already talking he wants to fight five times of 2026 that's both they're not going to do that and it's not physically possible to do that um but like marab versus pants can be your your march pay-per-view headliner and that rips i don't love that fight. Austin, they would be a minus 250 versus Tai Tuvasa in

2026. I don't know. I'm sorry, what was that? I wasn't paying attention. Not any of saying that. You're matching like the February Sydney card if Ty two Vasa fought Austin Lane.

I don't think he would be a big favorite, but. I don't even think he'd be the favorite. I mean, he wouldn't get, he might open. That might open as a pick him. I don't know.

Well, maybe. He's lost five in a row. Yeah. It's so. many in a row. Austin Lane is like the 40th ranked heavyweight in a division that has 25. He's terrible. This is purely a condemnation of tie to Ivasa, who's lost five in a row and retired, sort of, but now is coming back. Austin Lane went to extreme Couture before the rebellious Spain fight, and they were just like, don't reinvent the wheel, just run this man over,

just put him on his ass, tackle him, and you cashed a big ticket. Oh, they, they for sure wouldn't even do that fight. Like, if I want to see how they book tie, if they give them a top dude, like a top 15 guy, or if they're just like, we're going to potentially sacrifice tie at the altar of some contender series bomb. They should have given him rebellious when he was still there. That was the fight to make. That was always the fight to make.

It would have been terrific. A.Z Ray, 321 is a decent card, maybe a 7.8, but it being earlier does make it an 8. No, 100%. This is Christmas on. Saturday. Like we get to do the people's pre-fight show at 9.15 in the morning. That is right in my wheelhouse. It's a beautiful thing. So it gets a, it gets at least a half a point based on that, at least in my eyes. Look, I think the main card, the card you pay are paying the money for is good. I think all five fights are good. What's the Michoulin star rating for 321?

Well, it's certainly not a three because I wouldn't take a special trip to go see this one. it's it's probably a two i haven't really thought it out it's between it's certainly between it's definitely at least a one and it probably is a two i really like this main card the rest of it pretty bummy right like and that's that's if you're looking at the totality of the card um there are some things in the prelims i'm interested in nazar hoc cross quill and scall uh saw killed that's gonna be fun i'm pretty interested in that just because i kind of like salt killed as a as a prospect but but I think he's potentially better than I even gave him credit for. Icarol of Iron Turtle,

well, it was fine, perfectly reasonable middleweight matchup. Ludovic Klein-Robertsky is going to bang. That fight just rips because Matush Hrabeski's a psychopath. Can Ludovic Klein beat a guy named Matush? Maybe he can't. We'll find out. Walter Walker is fighting. That's a fight that's happening.

As at Maxim Mitrivso, Jacqueline Amaram, Mizuki Inouye. like the rest of it's pretty poopy because I think the fighting and I hope there are some bright spots on the undercard or some things I have marginal interest in but the main card all five fights are great I think all five fights are

very very good in the main card so I really like this weekend's card and it is nice that we get this is like the exact right way we've talked about this internally especially last week like I the 4 p.m. start times are somehow worse for me

because I'm so acclimated to being up late for like stuff anyway that that I at least get the day. I have the whole of Saturday to do whatever I'm doing in my life before fight start at six or seven, right? 4pm. My Saturday's truncated, but by the time they're done, it just means I'm going to bed like at midnight instead of it two. But I lost some hours of my usable day. So this is sweet spot because main card starts. to we'll probably wrap the post show what like five 30 5.30 6 so you know you can have dinner and then watch college football or go out with your friends or do whatever you're going to do so yeah it's terrific i love saturday start time uh will the referees be the topic of discussion like last

week i sure hope not me effing two that was bad hopefully dammergudata is not nabobie it probably will be because they're I wrote about that I think it comes out this afternoon I don't know when it got scheduled um it's just they're going to be a topic of discussion until it gets better and they're never going to get better until there's an incentive for them to get better because the primary drive like the primary driver for all refs at this point is to like not have fighters be mad at them that's it right like they don't they don't want fighters to feel hard done by because they influence the fight. And so that's not a good incentive structure.

The incentive structure should be there's oversight and their job. And if they're bad at their job, they will not have that job anymore. But that's just not what's the case here. So hopefully not. We never want the refs to be the story, but they are likely to be involved, you know, every couple of weeks because they're not getting better. They're not getting better at their jobs. It's very bad.

Will they be a topic of discussion? You bet you're asked. Someone's going to grab the fence and it's not going to get called. There's going to be multiple infractions and not a single point taken. But like, will it be, I mean, look, Brandon Allen just got the biggest win of his career against Rinder to Ritter. He broke that man in the Octagon. And no one's talking about it. Barely anybody talked about it on Saturday night.

It was all about Tandan and Dan Merguillado. know his performance on Saturday. I don't think we'll get to that point because whatever happens in the main event, that is going to be the talking point of this card. And if it is a referee blunder, then this is a very bad thing. Very, very bad thing. Lazy bed. Does a world exist where Mario Batista can win a decision against Umar or does he have

to get a finish to win? I think we're looking at things through the Usman, Normaga Madoff, versus Paul Hughes two lens where it just seemed like the narrative heading in was Paul Hughes has to finish him because they were in Dubai. Narrative wasn't entirely wrong. Yeah. I mean, I still think Gooseman won that fight.

Who's been won the fight, but the optics are horrific. They're terrible. The 50, 45 and the 49. It's a really going to win it all. But I don't think that really comes into play here. I think it doesn't hurt.

I won't say it's impossible. Mara needs to come into this fight. Honestly, in the way that most every fighter really should fight, it's not fair necessarily. You would hope that judges would be good at their jobs. They're not. But like, I don't adhere to the Dana White's oft-repeated phrase. You can't leave it in the hands of the judges.

But practically, it's not incorrect. And I think Mario should come into this fight with the mentality. of maybe I don't have to get a finish. It has to be clear. There can be, there can be no ambiguity to the victor here because that I, you know, I might be tougher to, one, just the way that Umar fights might make it tougher to win a decision. But like, yeah, maybe there's something,

maybe there's a little bit extra because of the location. That stuff happens. I don't think that it's like judges are rigged. But I do think that like, the whole, the way a hometown advantage works in MMA is the fans are cheering on one dude and judges sort of naturally gravitate towards that guy

because every punch gets a cheer, you know, and so it just feels more like that guy's winning. I think Mario should come in with the idea of finish this dude or make it very, very clear who the victory is. Bastard universe. I know most people feel,

whoa. Whoa. What? Check the end. Check the ad slack. Big news, Mike. Oh, shit. Breaking news.

Breaking news. I think, hold on. I think I got something. You get why I said, whoa. Breaking news here on this Thursday afternoon here on between the links, Fiting.com, terrific website. A statement from the Professional Fighters League. Here's what it says, quote,

Professional Fighters League has released Larissa Pacheco from her contract. We thank her for her memorable bouts and wish her the best in her future endeavors, which may mean we have our January co-made event. Yeah, dude. Kayla versus Larissa five for the women's Vanemway title. It would be four. Four? Whatever it is.

They fought a lot of times. That's four. This would be four. Yeah. I actually... I'm what the BFL's doing, man. That's terrific. What the hell are they?

They should be, they ruined her immediately. After she beat Kayla, they ruined it. Yeah. They killed her. Look, unless there's something we don't know,

right, unless there's a Chauncey Bellups, Terry Rosier situation going on, which I do not think is happening. But cover the bases. Unless something like that has happened behind the scenes, UFC should sign her in two hours. The UFC should,

The U.S. should make a press release at the next media event. What is it? Is it that we did the presser this morning? So ceremonial way in. Bring her to the fan Q&A and just, that might be hard to pull that off in Abu Dhabi. You might already be there.

Who knows? theoretically. But yeah, at the, at whatever the next event is, at the latest Dana and the post-fight pressure should be like, so our gate is this, attendance is this,

B.T. Dubs. we sign the Ritz of Procheco. Sign that lady immediately because she solves the, we need somebody to fight Kayla thing. Also, like she solves the, what if Amanda wins?

Yeah. Like, sign her immediately. No questions asked. Let's get going. Also, what are you doing, PFL?

Literally, you just let go of all your talent. I don't understand that. No, but they re-signed Vadim Nemcoff, Jed. I don't get it, man. I don't understand.

then. I mean, what, like, honestly, what else is there for Larissa Pacheco to do at this point?

She's already won a million bucks like Chris. Cyborg again? Yeah, but Chris isn't going to take that. No, she's not.

Again. Chris is going to fight Sarah Collins and then one more just rando fighter and then she's going to go box and that's it. So,

yeah, they're not going to, although they should just do Larissa every single time until Chris's contract expires, but there's nothing for Larissa there anymore. So,

I understand why she's just like, no, I don't want to do the season again. Like, I'm done. Let me go. And they probably look. And they're probably like, okay. Like, she's not a massive star for them. So happy trails Larissa Pacheco. Hopefully that's our co-main event for January.

Kayla versus Larissa, uh, do the damn thing. Yeah. What a, didn't see that one coming. A lot of Tai Tui Vasa is 300 pounds stuff. Um, All right, yeah, I was not prepared for that. I was, I was not ready for that. The question we had earlier, and I don't want to go back up and find it, but it was

if Umar beats Mario Jed, and I guess the real question is, does Mario get the full name back if you, if Mario wins this fight? He does. I mean, he's kind of gotten it back in general because I just keep forgetting. He's Mario. He's Mario. And not, you know, he's Mario Batista. He got the, he got the be back.

Look, if he wins this fight, even if it's by. crook umar's not beloved so it's fine to rob him frankly and it would just be impressive right like he just is a massive underdog a fight that he by all accounts should not win uh he he gets to be full on mario batista and if he wins if he does win then you don't do marab versus pants because marab needs to fight mario if maro be if wario beats umar and becomes mario morrow maro needs to fight him. So yeah. Yeah. Dude, Marab will Marab wants that fight. Marab won it. Maraub put over Mario is the guy who, of course. Mara, Marup thought Mario should have got the shot over Umar. Yeah, Maraub's game. So yeah, and if he wins, easy, you book that. No questions asked.

Green Band, Dennis has released Dakota. That ain't going to happen. Dakota ain't going to happen. Dakota ain't going to nowhere, man. They're releasing everybody else to pay Dakota to keep her there. Yeah. And they're going to have to pay Thad Gene to keep him there. And I'm sure they paid Fidim Nemcoff a pretty healthy price. Yeah, Dakota is the face of that organization, without question. She is the one that drives that ship, so to speak, at this point. So she's, this will be the last contract Dakota signs with them. Like, it's just the way that, I know it's a multi-year deal, so she'll probably be with them for 20, 28, 2029.

But at that point, she ain't going to go back there. So make that money now. and then go to the UFC. Can you pull up DJ Serenity Now's comment on incredibly misspelled Larissa, but Larissa? Where is it? Oh, wait, wait. Way too big for 135.

So I have two answers to this. One is she previously fought a Bannonweight. I know that that's a while ago. And maybe this is true. I guess I have three answers. Two, I would have bet almost anything on this planet that, Kayla Harrison could not make 135 in the time

when we were discussing this because she never fought at Bannonweight. She competed heavier in judo, right? And so I would have bet the whole, all the money I owned and she makes it. And three, don't give a shit. Just don't care.

This can officially be the transition to women's heavyweight. That is 1.26 end up. Fine. However you want to do it, the idea that, you are thinking about fight about fight sport wrong if you are adhering to literally invented principles for no reason right like the problem we're trying to solve is who the shit is kela harrison and or amanda nune is going to fight because there's nobody well here's a person they could fight but no because they can't fit in the imaginary constructs of a weight class that is meaningless like that no the the the the the the answer is that she fights orissa becheco and we solve the problem however we want to do it we make

her cut to 135 and she figures it out we open up 145 again for shits and gigs we just make women's heavyweight you don't not sign the rissa be bececo because she's big that would be very very silly yeah it's not like it's should probably make slightly more with pfl but probably not much more So I'm sure like legacy wise at this point in the rest's career like let's make one last run see if she can get another win over kale like she beats cal in the UFC like they the UFC not saying the UFC will do everything corrected but they will do a way better job getting her over than pfl did dude you need to think about Kayla Harrison as a finite number of fights because Kayla Harrison is not a reigning champion she is not going to be in this sport for a decade where it's just like all right we figure it out. we've got maybe five more Kayla Harrison fights. That's probably generous, frankly, but let's say five. Amanda's one of them. We got to fill out four-ish spots.

Maybe we could do two Amanda's, three-ish spots. Who else is it? Like another Pena fight? That fight wasn't remotely competitive. No, like Pacheco can get you one to two more spots of the Kayla Harrison run and give some you just signer and you figure the rest of it out later for sure yep uh with the contender series women both getting contracts and putting on great fights winners and losers be a mosquito recently too do you think the women's divisions are spicing up lately uh again i was reading the comments

repeat sorry i'm i'm doing bad podcasting today uh do you think the women's divisions are spicing up lately with be a mosquito and contender series women getting contracts and we could probably put Melissa scare croton in there because she looked really fun. Are the women's divisions as the whole spicing up? I think Bannamweight's getting a little better. Like getting the Bannam weight's getting a little better. Bannam weight's getting a little. So almost by definition they have to.

Bannem weight and straw weight because they're both terrible. And I also wrote about this as week. The problem with them being so terrible. And like maybe not the. problem maybe the way you know they're so terrible is they're the same the the people in the top 15 of both weight both weight classes or the same people have been there five years ago before covid you know it was jessica and drodge and angela hush and mcginzi durn and they maybe have moved a little bit but it's the same people and it's exact same of bannamweight misha tte

god lover me shay it's a friggin number 13 the uc's banon way rankings like they are because nobody knew has come. Like, Rose left the division. Zhang has now left the division. Yawana's left the division. Everybody else is the same. And so it's a lot like, frankly,

light heavyweight post John, which is the comp I made. Like, Zhang moving up is like when John left light heavyweight. It was like, okay, nobody thought it was great. And it's still not good.

But it was at least kind of interesting for a while as Glover took it. Year he came in. you know, Jamal, like there was some, some turnover, some exciting stuff happened

and then Alex Pereira moved in. I don't know if there's an Alex Pereira waiting at strawweight or bantam weight, right, but. Maybe it'd be a mosquito is that. It could be, you know,

anything could happen. And mostly just like, the old guard has to leave eventually. And they're going to start moving out. And so even if I don't really think like super highly of any of the Contender Series signings, I thought they were all okay, but not like champion, you know, future champion.

They're just going to get better because they have to. More people are coming in and eventually the old people fall away. Lazy bed. Diego Brando versus Kai Kamaka the third for the tough enough featherweight title this weekend. What former U.S. or vet do you still think has a run in them? I think Kai might. Like it depends on your definition of a run.

Like I think a run is just someone who can have like get like an eight to 10 fight thing going get multiple contracts with the UFC if they they are resigned like like Julian a rose. I think that's a good way to think of it. Yeah. The Julian Arosa effect, if you will. I mean, it depends on like if I was active. Well, here's the honest to God answer, but we all know it's true. Muhammad Mikhail should never have been let go and is one of the. 10 best fly weights on earth.

So if he comes back in, he'll have a run. But he won't be coming back in. So I thought he'd be back already. I still think he'll come back at some point, but they've, they've sent him to exile for much longer than I thought they were going to. Yeah. I thought it was going to be a temp exile. I think he's going to be in exile for many years.

They put his ass on elbow. They, they napoleon his ass for sure. But Napoleon came back eventually, much like Mohamed McHiav will. So I think Mahayev is a great choice I don't I think he's too aged out at this point To put together like a real run But just to shout him out because we had talked about him recently

For obvious particular reasons Willbrook should have gotten another crack at it Oh man There's never a reason he shouldn't have And I know the patchy mixed comps now write themselves I think I was the first person to do the patchy mix comp I was certainly among them Or the patchy mix to Woolbrooks

comp, but Wilburts should have gotten another shot. I don't know the last time he fought, and I don't think he could get a second contract because he's like 40. But he had more to offer the UFC than he showed. And I still just will never really understand what happened with him. Yeah, I mean, they did that tough enough, uh, tough season where they brought like veterans back. He was perfect for that.

He would have had to do it at Walterweight, I think, but he could have absolutely done it. Will Brooks currently on a six-fight win-stream. He's won like six or seven or some shit like that. He finished four of his opponents, including former UFC fighter, Stephen Seiler, Luis Pena. Yeah, his last fight was in Titan FC where he won the Titan FC, the, uh, welterweight title, uh,

with a fifth round finish of an undefeated prey drag Bogdinovich, uh, who is a pretty good prospect. And Will went out there and just did him up. So yeah, that would have been a good one. I'll say, I mean,

Kai, I think that we'll come back. If he goes, if he finishes Diego Brando, I think he's back in. And I think I could, but Kai was a fun fighter. There are always dudes you could.

Uh, lazy bed points out one archeletto, which I think is a good call as well. One Archelette has had plenty of, success outside of it. Yeah, he's done. He's a little older, but he's had plenty of success. Dakota Bush is probably one of those guys.

He's won six. He's won six and seven in a row. He just beat, he just beat Joe Gidetti pretty convincingly in September for Cage Titans. So, I mean, he, the bad has probably done enough to get a callback at this point, like at least a short notice opportunity. So I can see it. Yeah, seven in a row.

I mean, give him a call at this point. I have one that I don't want to say because I hate it, but it's absolutely true. One, Cole Conrad is always the answer because heavyweight sucks. You're going to hear a person be loud right next to me. Mike, I'm going to mute myself after I give this and you can react to this take. I hate myself for saying it. Oh, no. If you want to a J-Chic came back, she would win the belt again.

Tell me I'm wrong. I wouldn't hate it. I wouldn't hate it. I would hate it. I don't want her to fight again, but like Strawade sucks. And the people who can beat her at Strawade are no longer there. She would absolutely do up Vernor Genshiroba or McKinsey during the fight.

Like I, coming off the couch, I would confidently pick her to wail on McKinsey Dernardt or Vernierroba. I did not see that one coming. I think she'd come back for, like a one-off fun fight. I don't know who'd be against, but it would be...

That's the thing. She would have made so much sense to be the beat, like the women's BMF fighter. For sure. But there was never a person who had made sense to book her against after she was like, probably not fighting for the belt again. But like, a hundred percent, like,

I don't think it'll happen and I really hope it doesn't. But Yawanna, it's going to sit. at home and watch this weekend and whoever wins, she's going to correctly be like, dude, give me six months. And I will thump that woman because she would. Like if McKinsey Dern and I, again, me and she and Al Shadi, the only two people left

on Dern Island. More people have come back in the last few months. We were the only two people who didn't sell our real estate on Dern Island. Yawanna would hurt her in a just horrible fashion. So if Dern wins, I can't blame her. She shouldn't do it. Stay retired. Be happy and healthy.

But she could come back and win the belt, which basically nobody else could claim. That's a great shot. I did not see that coming. Well played. Thoughts on. It's a really good take that I hate myself for thinking about. It's an excellent take.

Thoughts on the comments from the head coach of RDR saying that he didn't quit. What's he, what's he supposed to say? Yeah, are guys a quitter? He didn't quit. I, you know,

I'm happy he released the statement because I think that, I think that the stigma around throwing in the towel should be diminished. I honestly had never considered it until this moment. The, like, corners should throw in the towel not just because they should to protect their fight. But like you're also helping your fighter not quit in a fight, right? Like that's just the optics of a fighter quitting is bad, which is also stupid because, you know, tapping out is quitting, but whatever. And his fighter didn't.

Like if they had made him get like if he, he would have gone up and fought like pretty clearly he couldn't move or do anything. Yeah. Like he would have gone out there and died. And his corner was like, yeah, we're not going to do this because that's it. They did their. everybody did their jobs. Reiner DeRitter fought and lost. His corner saved him.

Brennan out of him. Everybody did their jobs. Yeah. And I think, I think, and again, I stole it on onto the next one and I give you full credit for it.

And I even said on submission radio yesterday. It was really good, man. I'm really proud of it. It's the fight. I'm totally on board with this. I did it. I pitched it on sub radio Sunday. and Oscar who had just done the fight circus stuff was there.

And so he like literally had to process it in real time. And he was like, yeah, okay, that kind of works. And I think that that's when everybody hears it, they're like, yeah, actually, that's it. I'm really proud of that one. Because even Dennis was like, I don't know about that. I'm like, dude, whatever, there's a difference between what actually happened in the fight and what people think happened and the aesthetics of it. it. This, Brett and Allen knocking out RDR in eight seconds with the first punch he throws goes over

and tastes way better than what we saw on Saturday. This could not have gone worse for RDR outside of him like snapping his leg in half. That's the only thing that could have made this worse. He is immensely so far away from title contention at 185 now because of this. It's not even funny. I'm not even, I'm not saying he could never get back. But boy, is he going to be bowling his way into a title shot?

He's going to have to win like six fights in a row before he's put back in this position. And Anthony Hernandez would have ate him. It would have been pretty bad. It would have been worse than the fight. It would have been, like, truly. So go to 205. Go beat Dominic Reyes.

Maybe you beat Janbojovic in the second fight or whatever. That's the thing, too. And then you're getting a title shot. The path in 205 is so available. Outside of that. where I was just like, let's have fun. If you beat Dom Reyes, you can fight some old dude at 205. You fight Jan Bolovich, Alexander Rakich, and like, maybe you lose, sure.

There's a winnable. It just makes so much sense for him to move up. There's nothing for you at Middle Way right now. Truly and utterly nothing for you right now. Go up there where you don't, you're still cutting some weight. You're still like a decent size for the division. Yeah, dude, he walks in like 235. Yes.

He's not a small, he's not a small light heavyweight. He was just a gigantic middleweight. He could fight for the, and who knows where we could get R.E.R. versus Yuri Prahachka sometime in like 2026. You know I've been asking for that. That would be great. I mean, there's so much that can happen here. What, like, if anybody on his team is advising him to stay at middleweight, fire them.

Fire, simply fire all of them. Dude, just clip this whole section, man. Yes. Honestly, I think it's my best take of this month. And maybe, maybe this whole year. I was just like, you know what? He should fight down the grass. It's perfect.

That was perfect. Anybody who, all the processing in real time all looks the same. It's just like, now, come on. And then you're like, think about it. Really think about it. And you're like, hmm, it's the perfect opponent. And Dom won't get hurt. Yes.

Dom could win. But he won't get hurt if he loses. Yeah. If he gets, if he loses and gets hurt, he took a knee to the ribs and didn't get knocked unconscious. It's a win-win for everybody. So I love that idea. I think it's, I think it's your best take of the year.

It's, it's up there. I'm really, it grew on me. I felt good at like, because we just did it as we were like talking post-show or whatever. I was like, oh. And then it just slowly, I was like, actually, that's really smart. I love everything about it. Yeah. Get your ass up to 205.

RDR, I still love you. You're still my medium-sized adult son. But you could be my slightly larger adult son. And, you know, go fight Dom Reyes. Let's have some fun. Buy the numbers. Take a random guess how many visits the UFC will have made to Abu Dhabi after Saturday. Oh, Jesus.

That's a great question because, like, when I first saw this, I'm like, I could do this in my head. Oh, it's got to be more than that. So they go like twice a year How long are they spent like months there Oh shit I forgot the That's what it threw me off I wasn't even thinking that Yeah it's way more than 12

I'll say 20 I'll say 28 If we're talking like I was gonna go 24 so I'd say 24 28 probably low We'll see Let us know lazy I think that was lazy right

Yeah lazy bed always gets us thinking Lazy bed will come up I hadn't even had something I'd never considered. It's an interesting question. Oh, wow. The answer is 22. Okay.

I guess they didn't do that much actual Fight Island stuff. They did some, but yeah. But they also like... They go basically twice a year since Fight Island. And so it's only been five years or so. Was the first event the Habib Porre card? Was it the first time they were there? I don't think so, but I don't know.

You know what? I can find this out very quickly. Hold on. Let me take a look. That was a very big deal. That card. First event was, well,

the first event was much, much earlier, actually, Mike. Oh. It was 2010. Oh, yes,

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that was the BJ Padden, Frankie Edgar card, right?

Correct. And Anderson, Sylva, Damia, Matt Hughes, hoist, Gracie. Then 2014,

They went, not to Yaz's Island, but there was a big gnaug fight night. But then, yes, the first of the modern go to Abu Dhabi as a promotional thing was Habib Borei. Yeah, that was a very big deal. I remember, like, Bilal got a big win on that car and got a finish. I straight up. I'm like a frigid superstar. I would never have pulled Frankie B.J. at Abu Dhabi. Just in my head, not at all what I thought was happening.

Yep. I remember that, I remember that fight very well. Like I tell the story all the time. The first time I had bet on a fight, it was the only fight I had bet on before doing watch parties. And I bet on Frankie Edgar. And it was a great time. I bet on BJ Penn and I was furious that I was rock with my money. I was when I was living in Vegas and I was absolutely livid that I was wrap with my money. I was like, oh yeah, BJ has clearly won this fight.

terrific. 5045. Well, I don't think BJ should have won a 50, 45. Frankie Edgar, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. I was so happy. BJ didn't win all five rounds. Pretty clearly won the first three, though.

Okay, cool. A thousand dollars is gone. And then they went to Boston and all things were, were evened out because Frankie thumped him up. Oh, Frankie, he beat the soul out of him in the next two, so nobody cared about the first one. I once wrote

What If on like because Frankie should have like I don't think anybody disputes it really Frankie didn't win the first fight but it didn't matter because he won the second so bad And then the third will never speak of that was sad That's just that fight didn't happen as far as I'm concerned But like had Frankie lost that fight as he should have BJ probably holds the belt for another like two years Because Frankie wouldn't have gotten an immediate reason match, right?

Like, it would have been Gray Maynard. Gray Maynard is stylistically built to fight BJ Penn and lose. Like, that is the exact kind of guy BJ would crush. Maybe they would have given Anthony

Pettus the shot immediately coming up from WEC instead of making him fight first. And Pettis could have presented real problems for BJ for sure. Well, that would have been at the time. That fight would have banged. Like, that's a fight that Pettis could have won

or he could have easily BJ just been like, I'm going to tackle him and beat them just kick his ass on the ground. Benson Henderson is like, that's probably the one. Benson Henderson's the first guy you get to are like he's going to win. Benson, Bendo probably almost certainly wins against the diminished version of B.J. But like BJ could have added, feel like there might have been like there's also a window for Jim Miller to have maybe snuck in his title shot. Wow. Had, had Frankie lost.

Like I played the whole thing out. I was like if Frankie loses, they're not immediately putting him back. Obviously sliding doors start moving all over because then Frankie's back in the mix too and he's fighting guys. But like there's a world where BJ could have added another like two or three title defenses had they not just stone robbed him. But then he lost like heart like hell. RDA might have like never fought for the belt if VJ kept going the way that it all went down. It's crazy. Master of the Verse just want to say Mike and Jed are doing great at NBA fighting.

I've seen a lot of sausages commenting and they fighting since people left, but you're honestly doing great. People knocked us when everybody was here too. So it's fine. Sausage is such an underrated insult. And that's it's really, Patty says it all the time. And I'm like,

sausage is great. Yes, sausage. It's the best. Dude, when, um, uh, when Francis kept getting called a big sausage is just the funniest thing.

It cracked me up constantly. He's like, uh, knock out that big. sausage and he got knocked down by the big sausage god that was the best sausage i should bring that into my into my vernacular more first bet i placed was carlos olberg in a cash at plus 10 000 who the hell did call it was carlos olberg at plus 10 000 against would you bet it had to be that had to be a specific something did you bet against carlos olberg because he lost his

UFC debut to Kenny Nunchucks. I still wouldn't have been plus. Plus 10,000 is a number that's not real. Unless it was like Kenny Nunchucks, KO, round three. Yeah, like you have to do something very specific. So let us know. Mike Snowy spoke about it on a solo show book. We get jetting conversation about Brennan,

and having UFC run. He beat Algeo on Contender Series. So it does intrigue me a little to see how he'd have done. Locknane would have also been a good choice for the previous question. I think Glocknain, I don't think Glocknain's ever fighting for a title. I think Glegnain could have gotten into the top 15. Mostly I think Glocknain would just be like a dude who people like because he's really fun, you know, has a fun accent. People love a fun accent.

He's a fun fighter, good fighter. He'd lose some, but like I think he could have, you know, been the, that sort of Mike Malott tier of fighter. maybe break into the top 15 people like them a lot yeah yeah that's i mean it's pretty much it like you wouldn't have won a belt or anything like that no chance it was a weird it was a weird non-signing especially with the buzz he had heading into that fight um oh he had a lot of buzz from the bama days and the full contact days and i know he lost like pat healy before he was on contender series like two or three fights before that but pat has it is and they haven't thought about in a long time.

Bam, bam, baby, let's go. But, like, he's had some good, I mean, that's good runs in PFL, that's for sure. Who knows? Maybe they, maybe he finds his way back. When was the last time he fought? Oh, he lost the Timor and the final was past last year. And that fight was not all that.

That wasn't fun. I know, but that's, that's Timor Kids, you have, he's not, it wasn't competitive either, but it wasn't. I got to tell you, Timor, Timor, Timor, might actually be the exact perfect nexus of good and boring. Like, I knock Marab because I do not find Maraub's fight style compelling,

and I still don't. But like he is objectively far more interesting to watch than Timur Kizraev, who is really, really good and just deeply uninteresting. Uh, da, da, da, what else we got? What else we got? We'll take a couple more. Let me get on out of here. Jed and I for the second consecutive week

didn't realize that we weren't even I had no clue today. Genuinely had no idea until you you slacked me at like 7 p.m. last night. It was late too because I was like, all right. Yeah, I was driving to the gym. I was getting ready to drive to the gym

and I looked at the calendar. I'm like, neither of us are working tomorrow. Yeah, I was just like, all right. I was about to go see a movie. And then I was like, oh, interesting. Well, I guess I could go see a later movie. I don't have to see this early because I don't have to wake up early to go to the gym. I can just wake up and go to the gym.

Yes. It's nice. I was like, oh, I did it. So it wasn't working tomorrow. Cool. Let's see. What else we go? Something different.

Something different. I'm just going to, any, me, me, moat. Whatever we land on? The mafia and the NBA and the headlines. Varon did an interview with M.A. Junkie. She thinks the winner of their fight will have to face Whaley at some point.

Do Mike and Jed think Lately goes back to 115 at Valentina wins? No, I don't. I think she's done at 115. I think it would be foolish of her to go back to 115 of Val. I think if Val wins and she can't beat anyone at 125, okay. But yeah, like Val, Val's not fighting for another 10 years. It's just not possible. Like she's already,

honest to God, beating Manor is one of those things I think in 10 years people will actually respect. As like, that's incredibly impressive that she's been fighting for 20 years and still beat the functionally undefeated top contender who immediately after losing to her blew up the next woman she fought.

All right. Like what she's already done is, incredible. She can't do it forever. Zhang, she just hang on. She can fight for the belt again. And like,

what, what is re-winning the strawway belt mean to her? Nothing. So no, I don't think that's likely. Dude, John's already there. Val's,

if Val wins, I don't know what else she has left. She might just call it a day there. That if Val wins, she just needs to go sit cage side at, uh, at Harrison versus me. Yeah.

and be like, Larissa, no, I got first dibs. Because if Val wins, well, like, I would respect her for choosing to fight Natalia Silva. Why? You're the greatest flyweight by a mile. You're probably never, you've probably done so much that you can never actually even be caught as in the greatest flyweight conversation. Do you just want to keep picking off new, like credit to you. honestly be really cool if she's like Natty Ice let's go

but I think if she beat Zhang she should just be like cool man I've done everything but be a two division champion I'm going to go fight Kayla Harrison Norman and Nunes whoever wins if let's just say that happens let's say MSG

happens balancing to wins it's clear she won because I don't think there's going to be a finish either way in that fight but I think it's unlikely Valentina wins. She drops the belt down.

Valentina's been pretty good at beating the shit out of former straw weights. As Jessica Dodge can attest. Yes, that was the best performance of her career, in my opinion. Let's say she throws a belt down in the center of the cage. We're heading into Paramount. She's like, I'm done. Kayla, I'm coming. I get rid of this belt.

What is the UFC doing? Because there's a right, there is what should happen. And then there's the UFC way of matchmaking a potential situation. You're thinking exactly what I'm thinking, aren't you? Yep. I think so. Shang Nami Unis for the flyway belt. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

It would be so funny. It would be so bad and I wouldn't even care because it would be so funny. That is one billion percent what they would do. Without, that is absolutely the fight that will be made. And Natty ice. So funny. Natty ice will be hopped over. It should be daddy ice men on Fioro if they did do that.

But it's what they're definitely doing Zhang Rose three for the flyway. It would be so funny. Here's the thing. I think what the UC is actually going to do. I think they're going to book Rose versus Natalia Silva. Because the way you can keep Chivchenko at fly, maybe you can't anyway because she's psychopath that just wants to keep doing it. But if I'm Chivchenko's team and I can find.

fight Rose. Yeah, I want to fight Rose. Like that would be, I know they, I know they used to train together, whatever, but they both like, I'm pretty honest. They would fight each other. If she didn't call for it. Rose moved up to 125 because of the chance to fight her. Yeah. So like the issue is that Natalia Silva is just in the poll position. So if on the O.C, I just booked Natalia Silva versus Rose, hope Rose wins. And then we can do Shevchenko versus Rose if, if Chevy beats Zhang. And if Zhang, frankly, if, If Zhang beat Chevy, then you can do Zhang versus Rose. So I think they're going to book Silver versus Rose.

What was Rose? Oh, Miranda Maverick. Manna Maverick. Atlanta, baby. Yep. I mean, Rose has won three out of four. She did lose Aaron Blanchefield in a very close fight. I mean, she's technically lost three of five or won three of five since moving up.

And she's lost to Blanchefield and Furo. Furo fight was competitive Blanchefield. She lost. But not awful. Blanchfield, like the Fiora fight, it was just one of those things like, okay, maybe you should have spent another six days. It was her first fight up and you feel like maybe she could do better. Yeah, she could do better if she had a little more time to acclimate. I wouldn't hate a rematch there either if they booked that.

Yeah. I mean, and she looked pretty good against Blanchfield. She kind of gave that fight away. Yeah, she was competitive until she sort of just kind of threw. Blanchfield, yeah. Blanchville just kind of did. Yeah. If I'm the U.C., I'm booking to Talia Silver.

Rose. I'm hoping Rose wins because Rose against Chevy or Rose against Zhang. We like that if I'm the UFC. All right. Last question before we get out of here. Futures bets Oh, actually there'll be another question. Future Women's NBA futures bets.

Who are the 115, 25, 5 and 25 and 35 women's champs at the end of 2026? I've been on the island. I refuse to leave the island. This is objectively a bad choice. it's it's Dern

McKenzie Dern is my straw weight decision I think she's going to win this weekend I don't I don't think they're going to make her fight Tatiana if she wins which honestly she might even be able to beat Tatiana for us who's looked just horrific since the last year basically Jan again

she can beat Janjan I know she didn't but she also almost killed her for the in the second round of that fight or whatever so like I'll just keep riding with the Dern train. It'll never pay off, but I've spent too much equity. I'm already here.

I live here. This is my life. So, McKinsey Dern's my choice. Flyweight. I'm picking Chevy to beat Zhang. I don't feel massively confident, but I'm picking her.

The question is just whether she's going to stay, as we previously mentioned. She seems to want to. I think that I think she's not I think the UFC's going to be like, what are we doing here? Let's let something new and interesting happen at this weight class. And they'll ask her to move up to fight for it. So she will be vacating.

And if she vacates, uh, just because it's funny, let's, let's go with Zhang Wei Lee. Cause then I do get the equity of even if Zhang beat Chevy then okay. So we'll say Zhang, though I'm predicting she loses to Shevchenko, but she wins about the end of the next year. Bantam weight. Give me Shipchenko. I've been Chimchenko since day one. I've picked her previously in our beginning of the year Champions pick thing.

I'll pick her again, Shevchenko. Strathai, it's tough, man. Yeah, dude. It's all bad. Sorry, Dean Thomas. Sorry, Edithee Smith. Verda Gensaroba.

I think that's the smart pick, honestly. I do think she's going to wait on Saturday. I think she'll be McKenzie Dern. I'm sorry. I don't think so, man. I because she knows what to do dude she just has to

all she has to do is tackle McKin have you seen the trap for McKinsey don't this I know this I know to what I didn't but that doesn't mean Verna can't just tackle her

and lay on her and marab her and I'm talking like eight fight win streak pre title shot Marab like there that that could absolutely happen and I think

and I'm predicting it does happen and then Verna's not gonna if they if they do Tatiah Like, I think Verda could probably beat Tatiata at this point. Like, I was, I just, I don't, and I wouldn't even give Tatiana the shot anyways after that performance in her last fight. They gave her, they handed her Amanda Lemosch on a platter. And it was what, it was truly with the stakes and everything involved, it was the worst fight of 2025.

It's so, so, so bad. So I don't, I do not think you should give her a title fight after that. And she caught worked by Zhang, like real, real bad. Yeah. 25. I'm going Zhang. 35. God.

It's either Nunes or Harrison. Wow. No, but check her love. A goal man to Nunes. Let's have some fun. That's the thing. I think they're going to fight twice. Women's going to win one and one.

It's going to be fun for like the next eight to 12 months. It's going to be fun. It hasn't been fun in a while. Yeah. And don't worry, lazy. I'm honestly, God, excited this weekend because there's something new and interesting happening in a white class. Even if Dean Thomas and Anthony Smith and most other people don't care, I actually legitimately

am interested in this weird fight just as like, oh, something new and interesting is happening. Yeah. Agreed. I'm, I'm actually like, like, I'm looking forward to 321. It's just no one cares. So it kind of like takes a little bit of steam out of it. But at the same time, like for me, just watching fights, won the daytime stuff. And then, you know, Chris Barnett's always fun.

You never know what's going to happen there. Although I think he's just going to get tackled for 15 minutes. And that's unfortunate. I don't know. That's going to be terrible. I can't wait. It's going to be the heavy weightiest fight. I honestly got, I almost climbed with the over one and a half, which is like minus 180.

Because this is definitely going over. Interesting. The issue is if you look at the math. Chris Barnett basically never goes over, which is why the price is as low as it is. But like I just, Hamdi is just a man who takes fights long. So, yeah. He is, he is what heavyweight overs are built for. He is, he and Mo Usman are the poster children for heavyweight overs.

100%. Well, it's, it's got to be a fun weekend. We have lots of stuff going on. So I believe my interview with John Anick previewing the card and talking all sorts of fun. We have a super chat we have to attend to before you exit. Shit, I forgot all that. I said you mentioned it earlier and then you moved past it. Not bad.

Damn it. This is making sure. Heck, Jed, LTBC Dream Team. Will we get a group watch party and or on Crown segment? Chuck in the boys in the back, Ultimate Fight fans, banter. It would be fun to do something with LT and BC. Fuck yeah. Oh, that would be awesome.

Yeah, I would love that. I mean, it probably wouldn't be a watch party. Luke does his own, so that actually just would be 100% not a thing that would happen. I can't. Luke wouldn't do that. We could maybe make something happen with BC. I don't know. But that would be awesome.

Like, shit, you know just like an anime beat style thing would be fun as hell. Yeah, I would do that. That'd be great. I don't think the uncrown thing's going to happen. But, uh, unlikely. Yeah, I, I, I still talk to a lot of those guys. Like, I've done submission radio with Chuck and, you know, I talked to GC. Yeah.

I thought it's hard to almost all of them. I need to text Shaheen. I meant, I was, I was waiting to do it for a specific, who I have a package? That's fun. Uh, but I need to, I just looked at my phone to like, to think about texting. I need to text him and be like, hey, they're not a lady, baby. Let's go. Yeah.

Uh, but yeah. I miss. I miss that guy. I do miss Shaheen. Obviously, Miss Casey saw Casey's new video up. Certainly some good footage. He's doing some fun stuff. Definitely doing some fun stuff.

So good on him getting to do what he likes to do. Oh, I think I'm going to see. I will be shocked if I don't see Casey in a couple weeks in Miami. I assume he's going to be there. Oh, it seems very likely. Because you know the iconic voice is going to be there. And usually when she's out taking photos. good old baddestash will be in tow and I'll be there as well.

So I kind of hope that he's there. So I get to see him and give him a big little hug because that would be great. But is that that that's two weeks from now, right? Not next week. Three weeks. Three weeks. Okay. Three weeks from tomorrow is when that fight card's happening. So that's the same as the MSG week?

It's the day before MSG. Day before. So maybe he's not because maybe he'd be. ems g then i don't know if you'd be there though they got plenty of people in new york there's true i have no idea yeah we'll see we'll see we shall see uh but tomorrow we'll have a preview show i don't really know what time if you want to watch the official way in stream let me find out what time that's actually happened when is one a man's like six a m or something insane yeah it's no i think it's like one a m no well then we could do a preview show whenever am i you know what mike i'm gonna look and see

if I'm working tomorrow. It's a good idea. Check the old calendario. I am working tomorrow. Be too. We can do shows. Yeah, I think the official way it streams at 1 a.m.

and I think the ceremonials are at 9 a.m. Eastern. So that means we can do the preview show, whatever. So if you guys wanted it at like noon Eastern, we could do that. If you wanted it like 2 p.m. Eastern. Noon Eastern is when we can do it. I'm not doing it before I get on Glock.

Yeah. So noon's the earliest we can do it, but I'm happy to do it whenever you want. Noon Eastern. Seems about right. It seems about the right time frame. We'll talk 321. We'll talk the burning storylines. And I would say like the biggest topic.

Which we didn't really talk much about today. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I think I'll leave you with the question that John Anick poses to his brother, multiple times a day talking about this fight because that's sort of going to be the theme of Tobar's preview show. Can you imagine living in a world where Tom Aspin

all fucking loses on Saturday? What will next week look like? What will our shows look like? What will the talking and the conversation be if Cyril God is the heavyweight champion of the world? I'll take a mental break. I'll just get off the internet because I don't want to see John John's tweet.

That's it. That's like my primary motivation. Yeah. I want to see John tweet. I mean, that's the thing that's going to happen. I'm kind of hoping. It'll happen.

There'll be so many of them. And there'll be so self-aggrandizing and just the worst things you've ever seen. So do it for all of us, Tom, because none of us needs that in our lives. Love y'all. That's it, everybody. It will objectively be pretty funny if Tom loses, but I won't be able to laugh. because I'll be so sad about the John stuff. Well, we'll talk about that and much more in the preview show.

Thank you for watching. We love you all. We appreciate you all for Jedbushu. I am Ikech back next week to recap it all right here on Between the Links. Good night, everybody. Love you all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.