MMA Fighting - BTL | UFC 277 Fallout, Next For Nunes, Paul vs. Rahman Jr. Nixed, UFC Vegas 59, More

Episode Date: August 4, 2022

Where do Amanda Nunes and Julianna Peña go from their five-round battle in Dallas this past Saturday? On an all-new episode of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the potential next moves from the UFC 277 headliners following Nunes’ dominant decision win to reclaim the UFC bantamweight title. Will the UFC book a third fight with Peña, a trilogy fight with flyweight champ Valentina Shevchenko, or go a different route? In addition, topics include the big takeaways from the PPV event, the cancellation of the boxing event scheduled for this Saturday that featured Jake Paul vs. Hasim Rahman Jr., who is to blame, whether or not Nate Diaz is in play for Paul following UFC 279, UFC Vegas 59 this Saturday headlined by Thiago Santos vs. Jamahal Hill, and more. Host Mike Heck will moderate the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and a panelist to be named later. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed K. Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Damon Martin: @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible.

We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you back to a brand new episode of Between the Links here on M.A.fighting.com. Hope you're all having a wonderful week. Thank you for joining us at a special start time. We're rolling a little bit early. All will be revealed hopefully over the next several hours. But this week, we had a call on Audible. And for those who are joining us at this new time, we appreciate that.

And a big shout out to the panelists who are also jumping on a little bit earlier than normal, which both guys are from M.AFighting.com. So a little infighting battle here. Let us first introduce a man who has probably appeared on the show more than anybody. He's probably won on the show more than anybody. He sat a little bit of a hiatus. He got to host a week and then he just took a week off in general.

Let us say hello to the possibly rejuvenated King of Hot Takes, Mr. No Gray Area, Mr. Jedmishu. Hello, Jed. What do you mean probably one more than anyone? Check the record. Don't mind that second column because that second column is mostly horse crap.

But that first one right there, 25 big ones, baby, winning his player in history, the goat, Jed Mishu. there you go the goats the self-proclaimed goat and joining us and we appreciate this very much because he's a bit he's been a little bit under the weather if you follow him on social media but he is here he is braving it out he's braving it out and he's a very tough individual let us say hello also to m a mafiting dot com my friend my colleague mr damon martin daman hello sir how are you i am uh a little under the weather but you know even at my even at not my best i know i can be jaymond my shoes. So, you know, I'm feeling pretty good today. We love that. Let me ask you this, Damon, real quick, because I wanted to ask you this off air,

but I'm just going to ask you right now, with Better Call Saul, rounding third, because I've watched the entire series, it's ridiculous. Can we consider this as one of the top five greatest shows of all time? Is this in the conversation? I think it's in the conversation. It's really, really, really good. And as long as they stick the landing, which Breaking Bad did spectacularly, I think it's in that conversation, absolutely. Good. I feel the same way. You're a Sopranos guy?

Damon, are you Sopranos number one guy? Sopranos is the greatest television show ever made. Okay. I'm not, it's on there. It's not my number one. The shield to me is number one. It's a little outdated now, but it still holds up, even all these years later.

The shield is great. I love the shield. I love the shield. The shield's great. Yeah, that's another great one. It's the wire, but good. Good, you know, good effort, guys. That's in there, too.

That is in there. It is the wire. It is the wire. We have a winner. I think we have a new show ahead of us. The wire still holds up. Like, you watch the wire today, it's still bangs. Like, the Sopranos is obviously was very important for what it achieves and accomplished and sort of set the tone for.

But that can be a tough watch if you're like rewatching it now and weren't there in the first run. The wire still slaps. the wire is funny though because there's pay phones in it yeah just pay phones at all of them just pay phones in spranos too but listen we can talk about television shows all day long we can talk about greatness all day long we're going to continue to talk about greatness let's start with mandanunas

yeah let's talk about Amanda Nunes and her greatness Damon will begin with you she goes out there puts on a masterclass for 25 minutes of course there's a lot of talk about the absolute toughness the durability of Giuliana Pena. She stuck it out despite getting knocked down multiple times, getting bloodied and battered. She made it to the final bell.

But once again, Amanda Nunes is the UFC Women's Abandon Way champion. Once again, she is a double champion. We didn't get a chance to talk to you about this, Damon, but what was your biggest takeaway from the main event of UFC 277 in Dallas? What did you make of Nunes' performance? And what did you make a Pena's performance? I mean, listen, I don't, I hate the idea. that because she lost the first time around, that it was somehow a fluke or that, you know,

Giuliana Penae got lucky or any of that. Listen, it's a fight. And if you step in the cage for a fight and you lose, it's a loss. There's no excuse about it. And I understand we hear things about injuries and sickness. And as a guy going through COVID right now, I understand how much COVID can take through or from you. So what Amanda Nunes went through, I'm sure it was very serious.

And coming back from that, you know, may have affected her in a lot of ways we don't know. but I don't like to diminish Giuliana Pena's win the first time around just because, you know, all these things we hear about maybe Amanda wasn't at her best. That being said, Amanda was at her best this past Saturday night. I mean, she looked as dominant as she's ever looked.

And I know a lot of people said, well, she didn't get to finish. And Amanda said something afterwards, and I know a lot of it's like, you know, it sounds like, you know, a post-fight speech made for TV when she says, you know, I didn't want to finish. I wanted to beat her up for five rounds.

I'm quite sure she would have loved to finish. but that being said, we did see 25 minutes and Giuliana Pena won none of it. I mean, she didn't. She landed a couple of punches. I mean, she did nothing in there. Amanda Nunes was dominant from start to finish. And I think that in a lot of ways, erase is why a lot of people aren't calling for a third fight right away, because the first fight, Amanda did okay in the first round, ran out of steam and got beaten the second round.

This time, 25 minutes straight, it was a one-sided beat down. One judge had it at 50-40. I mean, that's as dominant performances you can have without getting a finish. So everything was kind of made right again in terms of, you know, the fighters we consider the best of the world because Amanda Nunes is exactly that. He is the best fighter in the world, you know, in the women's bantanway division, in the Fedaway division as well. And arguably still near the top of the pound for pound. I still have Valentina and Chukhinka number one. But again, it's kind of like, you know, everything that was wrong was made right again with that fight.

Jed, we sort of reacted to it after the fact. And we had to sit through like a three hour post-fight press conference. So we can only react for so long because it was like 4 a.m. when we actually did the post-fight show. But one thing we didn't really get a chance to talk about. I mean, we talked about the fight, how Nunes looked. We talked about how durable and tough Pena was because that seemed to be the bigger topic of discussion amongst the commentary. But Damon brought up a point I wanted to get your take on.

How impressive was this performance? When you look at Amanda Nunes' total line of work, and she's had some big wins and some iconic moments, the cyborg knockout, head kick of Holly home, winning the title against Misha Tate, where does this performance overall rank now that we've had a few extra days to digest it? I mean, that question really comes down to how you view Juliana Pena.

And so for me, I never thought Julianna Pena was like, she's tough, but I never thought she's that good of a fighter. I think there are several women kind of in and around that, top of the weight class who would probably beat her if they fought. And so this is a really good win because it was a very dominant over an extremely tough woman who also beat her and there is a mental hurdle to clear in that regard. But at the end of the day, like this is what everyone thought was happening the first time. And had it happened the first time, we would have said solid win over somebody who,

don't forget at the time, Julian Appania getting a title fight wasn't even like a certainty. it was more a process of elimination because, you know, everybody else had already fought and lost to him in Nunes. So it was just like, well, I guess we can do Giuliana Pena coming off a rousing one-fight win streak. Like, she beat Sarah McMahon. That's how she had a title fight. And Sarah McMahon, God love her, great fighter, not like all-time, all-time great or whatever. It was just a decent win and that's how it happened. And so I think if what Damon is saying is true, and I think it is in that this is what was supposed to happen, everything goes back to how it was before the loss.

You take the loss for what it is. It's still a loss. She caught on an off night, and that's what happens in this sport. You still just have to view this win the same way you would have maybe with a little extra juice, but it's not like this is the biggest, the best win of her career. She beat the ass of a woman who's not as good at fighting as many other women in the division, but who's still incredibly tough and did have a slight mental edge over. her because of what happened the first time. So probably top five win in her career. I don't know, maybe it's, it's certainly top 10 because, you know, there just aren't that many notable wins. But I mean, there are a lot of them with her, but it's just numbers game. But I'm not even sure

it's top five. This isn't as certainly not as impressive or as impressive or important as a Tate one. Home, Cyborg. I don't know. Kind of then your mileage varies. So. So, you know, good solid win, though. And now the big question is, what do we do now? Because we have many different camps here, Jed. There are some people who just say, you know what? Juliana gave her a rematch. They should just run this back.

Then there's the other camp that says, no, Ketland Vieira, like, she deserves a title shot. And then there's the other side where the needle's starting to move a little more. Even Dana White said he's not opposed to this anymore. It's not a bad idea, I believe, was the actual quote. we pull Valentina up from the 125 pound division. We do this third fight between Amanda Nunes and Valentina Shufchenko. So if you had the mighty pencil right now, Jedmishu, what's next for Amanda Nunes? Are we doing one of the two trilogy fights?

Or is it Caitlin Vieira next woman up? Let's just keep things as they are. If I'm in control of it, and I will take the unpopular stance, but this is what I truly would prefer to see happen. Kellen Vierre gets the title fight against Amanda Nunes. The winner of the upcoming Chuket game, Fioreau fight, gets the title fight against Chivchenko. And then after that, you can run them. But Kellen Viera, whether you think she should have or shouldn't have beaten Holly Home, and I know opinions differ, it's officially a dub.

And her resume demands a title fight at this point. So you are either saying, Ketland Vier, you have to sit out for maybe a full year, depending on what happens. Because if they did Chichanko Nunes and Chichchenko wins, then they're doing another one. one like again. And so then Kevin Beiro, who deserves a title fight, will have to be sitting out for a year to 18 months or have to take another fight against

I guess Giuliana Pena is probably what would happen. And that's just, I want there to be some level of meritocracy and I think Vieira deserves a title fight. Similarly, if Chukagian beats Fioro, she deserves another crack. She is going to lose. I do not

get me wrong. I am the driver, the captain of the Valentina Shevchenko bandwagon. But you just, you earn it. You get in there, you do the work, and you earn. If Chugay and beats Fero, she has earned it. I don't know how many wins it is, I think five or something like that in a row, all over, like, legitimate contenders, and she will just beat one of the new hot shit contenders

in the division, like, you just got to give it to her, even if the crowd isn't a huge fan of her or whatnot. You got to give her a crack. So do those two title fights in their divisions because they make sense. Shevchenko, even. even said not that long ago that while she's not opposed to doing the Bannamweight thing, she is still more focused on flyweight and the next contender here, especially coming off the Tila Santos.

And I think the Tila Santos is really the fight that is instructive here for me because the Santo, like you can make the Shipschenko-Nunes fight and they probably do. That probably is what's next. But it will be bigger. It will be better. It will be more meaningful if the taste of the Tila-Santos win is a little further away because it's easier to forget. instead of saying, well,

Shevchenko has two losses to Nunes and competes at a weight class lower than her, and she almost lost to Tila Santos a woman. Nobody really cares about what who is very good. Now we're going to see if she can beat the greatest of all time. That's just a harder sell. It's not as smooth of a story than Shvchenko defends her belt in a rematch against the top contender in the division,

dominates her like she did the first time, because she will, and then Nunes beats, yeah, And then that's the next, okay, both of these women really don't have anyone to fight. Now we run it back. So that's what I'd do if I was in charge. Damon, do you agree with that? I mean, Jed makes a lot of sense here, but this is a chaotic business. And sometimes we just, we got to pull the trigger on these things.

Shaheen Al-Shadi, our colleague has been screaming for this. Let's do it now. This is not a back pocket fight. Like, we have to strike while the iron's hot because we just don't know how much time we're going to have with both of these women. So if you have the mighty pencil, if you're sitting in the matchbreaker chair, How are you ironing this out for Amanda Nunes after this past Saturday? Well, I think it comes down to one thing, and that's Valentina Shochinko's preference. If Valentina Shochinko wants to go to Bantamweight and she wants to fight Amanda Nunes for a third time,

you make the fight because you've already risked it now in a lot of ways, because Amanda already lost and then Valentina had a razor-close decision in her last fight. If you keep messing around, you're never going to see this fight because if Amanda loses again or if Valentina somehow gets upset at Flyway, you can just kiss this fight goodbye because the interest in a champion versus champion fight, you know, even as great as these fighters are, go around their, you know,

it circles around their greatness. And you don't want to see both these fighters coming off losses and then trying to make a champion versus champion fight. It just doesn't make as much sense, even as as shallow as their division seemed to be. So you strike while the iron's hot. Now, if Chivchenko doesn't want to do it, and she's adamant about fighting a flyway,

which is fine. Let me be clear about that. I'm completely okay if Valena Chichinko never fights a band to wait again and she never fights Amanda Nunes again. It does not diminish her greatness and her accomplishments in the sport if that fight never happens. If she wants it, you make it because you're already risking it. The other flip side of that is if it doesn't happen, then I think the Giuliana Pena Trilogy is the way to go

because as much as Ketland Vieira quote unquote has earned it, Mike, a quote, I know you like I gave me years ago. are an MMA fan strike deserves from your vocabulary because it will only drive you insane. Yes, quote unquote, Ketland-Viera, quote-unquote, deserves a title shot. But does anyone want to see Ketleu Fierre fight for the title? Are there like three people in the universe who want to see her fight for the title? Jed might be one of the three because nobody else does.

Now, I'm not saying Giuliana Pena after getting the brazenetting off for five rounds. Really, you know, anyone's just screaming to see that fight. but she legitimately has a win over the champion. They are now technically tied 1-1. And listen, we saw a third fight between Kane Velazquez and Junior DeSantos back in the day after Junior got the knock on the first one. Kane mopped the floor with him in the second one, and they still made a third fight down the road.

It went even worse in the third fight, but they still made it. If you're not going to do Schochenko, it's got to be the trilogy, because no one cares, no one. No one is going to get excited. Ketland-Vir a fight for no one, okay? That is like the third fight on a triple-fight championship card. That's like how low that one goes down the totem pole, okay? Do the Pena trilogy or do the Schochenko fight.

Those are your only two options. The key thing you said there, though, Damon, is down the road. They did JDS Kane after Kane won another fight because you can't run back an ass-kicking of that magnitude. I don't care what happened for. I don't care if in the first fight, Juliana Pena, Kameha Meha,

Mena Nunes, out of the cage. Like, she could summon an otherworldly power and explode her out of the cage. That ass kicking in round two, you just can't, you cannot run that back immediately.

You can do it and you can do it with one win. All of Pena needs is one win. But you think no one cares about watching Kettlind Vieira Nunes, and I agree, they don't. Do not give me wrong. is a meritocracy title fight. That is not a selling point title fight.

I don't think it's a real tough sell to be like, they are split and remember what happened? Oh, yeah, we can't talk about how they're split because holy shit, Amanda Nunes beat the brakes off of Joanna Pena. You can do it and you can do it next year even. But Pena, one, Pena needs to recover and two, she's just got to get a win.

And it's very doable. Get her a win over any other person in that awful division. but like well if that's the lowest possible option is the pain you remit trilogy i think that's not even more close to happening here's my challenge though tell me the tell me the most impressive when kettly viera's had because i can't name one i mean holly home technically has she has a win over holly holm she has a win over misha tate there's no signature win that everyone's like oh my god did you see what kettlen viera did did you see what she did no no one cares no one cares if you put if you put kettlin vair in a lineup right now the 100 mma fans like six people would be able to

pick her out of the lineup okay let's just be honest about this again i'm not saying julia i'm agreeing with you all the way i'm not saying juliana pangie is going to win and i'm not saying julia at least juliana pania can say i have a win over amanda new i'm not saying she i'm not saying she deserves it i'm not saying it's the right thing i'm saying it's the only thing if you're not going to do the chifchenko fight because nobody cares about kettl Bair, nobody. Nobody. You don't have to sell. Nobody gave her shit about Giuliana Pena before she beat a man of Nunes.

You want to talk about Kettlin Vieira's wins? And sure, they aren't like marquee highlights over, but Taiton home are better wins than anyone's Vierrez beaten aside from the Nunes fight. Like, again, I am not saying you're doing this because it's selling paper views or because the public demands it. The public ain't demanding Giuliana Pena either. And you just, just do a new person. Hell, maybe Vieira.

I think Vieira has a really good chance to at least look good against Nunez. And if she comes in and upsets the apple card again, that goes negatively for the eventual super fight you obviously want to do with Shevchenko. But then you've got another, oh, Nunez is back to losing against Viera. Now we run this back. Like, I just, I think Pena is not on the scorecard. If you want to argue for Shevchenko over Viera, that's probably what's going to happen. And it's better, like, I get the argument.

I just would prefer Vieira. I don't think Pena is in. I just don't think she's in the neighborhood right now. I think she needs one win and she gets it, but not right now. Well, the beauty of all of this is, as we'll move on to the Caitlin Vieira appreciation episode of between the links in a matter of moments, poor Caitlin just winning fights and taking strays here. But it looks like a man to doan who is going to be taking some time off.

So we could probably iron out a lot of these things. Valentina could probably defend her title. maybe we do VR versus Pena and maybe we have time to do all of those things but maybe we don't maybe we don't but that's the beauty of M.A and she wants to take some time off let her take some time off and I will say if Chivchenko defends her title at Nunes is still sitting out

and then you want to do the Shibchenko Nunes after that I'm a lot more down with that I do think it's a lot harder to sell not harder to sell because it sells itself in general but like it is a better sell if Shibchenko isn't coming off, arguably having lost her, lost Uthaios. I think it's just it sits better in everyone's mind, certainly in mind. Yeah.

Yeah. And maybe Valentis is going to wait to see what happens October 22nd. Maybe if Chukagian wins, she's like, nah, I don't want to fight her again. We all know what's going to happen. We all know what's going to happen. It's death taxes and Chukagian by decision. Like, that's just what goes on. Or split a decision.

Whatever is going to ask. Some sort of a decision. unless she's getting her doors blown off by super athletic good fighters. Well, more happened at UFC 277. We'll discuss that. But the point for round one goes to, happy sixth birthday to strike the word deserves from your vocabulary. Damon Martin gets the points, compelling arguments on both sides.

You're telling me, arguing for Ketland Vieira is not a winning strategy. Damn it, if only I know. Oh, man. There we go. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrant Sets, our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com.

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Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Well, I mean, solid start to the show. But let's talk about some of the other things that happen at UFC 277. Of course, Brandon Moreno is the interim flyway champion. He's going to be set up for the Tetralogy with Davis of Figurato. We had big wins from Sergei Pavlovich, Alexander Pantoja.

We also saw Magamanaek-Goliath get a big win over Anthony Smith. We saw a lot happen at UFC 277. So, Damon, I'll begin with you. Outside of the main event, what was your biggest takeaway from the card? You know, I'd love to, you know, I like to pick obscure things and, like, you know, compliment other fighters on the card or whatever happened. And I would like to compliment Sergey Pavlovich. for pulling off a big one even though it was a bit of a controversial stoppage.

Although, again, I don't think that none of that's his fault, by the way. You know, it's not his fault. The referee jumped in when he did. But listen, I know I'm going with the easy choice, but it's the other big fight on the card is Brandon Moreno. I mean, going out there and doing what he did against Kai Kar-Franz who was on a bit of a streak, you know, picked up the big winner of her Cody Garbrandt, you know, picked up the winner of Asker-Assaroff. I was at that fight, of course, I was here in Columbus.

He had looked really, really good lately. And for Brandon Marino to go out there and be. him, you know, pretty handily in the first two rounds, and then, you know, for Kai to come back in the third and was doing pretty well. And then to get that liver shot, I mean, just obliterated his midsection to knock him out and finish him that way. It was so impressive. And listen, I'm not, I'm, I'm, you know, I've been driving the bandwagon for a long time saying I wanted to see Moreno and Figurato 4. Uh, I could see those guys fight a hundred times. I don't think it would ever be boring or terrible. Uh, you know, Figuie Smalls, as I affectionately refer to him as,

is a monster, despite what Joe Rogan has to say about him fighting a flyweight, I really do look forward to that fight happening again. So, yeah, Brandon Moreno was the guy. I mean, to go out there and do what he did. And listen, we all know it was an interim title. It didn't make sense that it was an interim title. The title just got defended back in January. I made no sense that there was an interim title on the line.

So maybe you could say, was the motivation there? Is he really going to be excited to fight Kai Kar-France, the guy he already beat? And really, I'm sure he would have rather had the rematch with Figgie. But to go out there and do what he did was super impressive. And then now we're going to, you know, once again, all has been made right in the world because we're going to get Figueroeroero for.

It's the fight that should have happened anyways. It's the fight we should have really just been waiting for. But it is what it is. But that was really impressive. And I love a good body shot knockout, man. There is a few things as exciting as a great body shot knockout, how devastating those are. So Brandon Moreno is the guy.

I can't compliment him enough on that performance. Yeah, and just seeing the aftermath of this, I just, I'm still puzzled by Davis of Vigorera's reaction to the interim title fight and that he might move up to 135. Like, what do you, like now this fight's even bigger. I just, I never really understood his, his side of that whole thing, but that's not a here nor there. Jed, this seemed like it's almost a vindication sort of a pay-per-view for you because there are two guys on this main card that you've been very high on for quite some time.

One, Mr. Pantosia, who had an incredible performance against Alex Scriz, the old, the old shot out of the cannon, just getting in his face and getting the job done. And Magamette Ancolaev gets another big win, and he's getting closer and closer to a title fight himself. So what was your biggest takeaway from the card? Was it one of those two things, or was it Moreno outside of the main event? No, it's one of the two things. It's my boy Al Pants.

Al Pants, Jess. He ascribed to the belief, which is very true, that you don't get paid by the hour in there. And he'd handled business right quick. And look, I get it. Again, I'm taking a less popular stance, I'm sure. I get it. The big storylines are obviously where the belts are involved, so the main and the co-main event.

But if you strip out the belts, I don't think there's a single performance on this car just for the merit that we're talking about more than Alexander Prontoja, just absolutely stomping all over Alex Perez. Like, he, that was the most impressive. impressive performance bar none of any of them. That's including Nunes 50-43 and the woman who just beat her.

Alex Perez is a good fighter. He is a very, very good flyweight. And Al Pants just said, nah, we're done here. I want, and was awesome on the mic too. Like, never been known as a huge mic guy, but comes in, says his piece. He wants the title fight. He damn sure deserves it. He's not getting it, at least not any time soon, because of the way flyweight has

sort of broken out. You called them on the ranking show the Baron of Bad Timing. A bit of a true statement in that regard. But he is for me just on the sole merits of the performance, easily the standout of this card. And that includes, like you said, my boy, I've been the captain of the Magerman Ankleye of train. He is, I almost ranked him number one at light heavyweight this month just to screw with

everybody because I believe he is the best one in the world. I know that he doesn't sort of have the resume to even back that up, but I believe that he would beat any light heavyweight in the world if you put him in the cage with him. He got a great win over a top, I don't know what we have, Anthony Smith ranked, but, you know, top 10 dude. And it doesn't even matter. I don't even remember that because Al Pants just pantsed Paris. Like, that was awesome.

Not at all what I was expecting, frankly. I thought that fight was going to be incredible back and forth action. and Pantoja just just wrecked him. So he is my breakout performer of UFC 277. Damon, if Derek Lewis wasn't involved in the Sergei Pavlovich fight, could he have been the correct answer to this? Could he have maybe beaten? I just feel like his performance is overshadowed by the stoppage,

which the more you watch it, the more you realize it's not as bad as some of us think. Like maybe it's a little early because it is Derek Lewis, but the aesthetics of it all just looked really bad. But I just feel like if this was anybody else he fought, we'd be talking a lot more about this guy. Yeah, it's unfortunate because, and that's the problem when you have a bad, when you have a perceived bad referee stoppage

is it takes away from the guy who actually got the win. I mean, Sergey Pavlovich went out there and beat the brakes off Derek Lewis inside of a minute. I mean, he went out there, stood in front of one of the most dangerous knockout strikers in the history of heavyweight division and just punched him until he couldn't stand up. I mean, it's crazy how good that looked.

I mean, it's kind of weird to think back to Sergey's, one loss of the UFC was Dallas or over him. And then you look at what he's done since then, you know, whatever it is four straight knockouts, I believe it is. You know, Pavlovich is the real deal and he's really good. I mean, you look at what Ty Tuy Vasa did to Derek Lewis in terms of striking on the feet. And that was a battle.

I mean, that could have easily gone to Derek Lewis. They were just trading bombs and Ty got him before Derek got him back. In this regard, Derek was never in the fight. I mean, Sergey went out there and just, you know, beat him senseless. from the first exchange. It was crazy. And it is unfortunate. Like I said, that's the downside. When you have a controversial stoppage, you know, because that's the conversation we're all having today. That's the conversation we were having last Saturday. That's the conversation

we were having on Sunday. Did the stoppage, you know, wasn't a good stoppage, was it a bad stoppage? Dana White was complaining about the stoppage. I mean, that's what we're talking about instead of Sergei Pavlovich just going out there and starching Derek Lewis on the feet. You can talk about all of Derek Lewis's losses. He typically, doesn't go out there and get starched on the feet. And he did. I mean, he got starched on the feet. So it's unfortunate because Sergei is a really fun injection

into the top of that heavyweight division. I mean, I think Sergey, you know, we already know we're getting surreal gone and Taito I Vasa, but who wouldn't watch Sergei Pavlovich and Taito Ivasa? That would be a really fun fight. So, yeah, it's unfortunate because we have a new heavyweight contender, yet all anyone can talk

about is the stoppage. Jed, what's sort of the last thing that we'll move on? What's sort of the under the radar takeaway that you have? Is it, you know, Pantosia and Ancolae, both have cases for a title. Maybe one gets there sooner. Is there somebody on the prelims who performed really well beyond your expectations that isn't getting enough credit?

What sort of under the radar standout from this card sticks out to you? I mean, if you're going less talked about, it's probably Drew Dover, just because I, there's a special place in heaven for people who kill humans with. punches to the body. And Drew Dober just locked himself into those pearly gates. He's golden. St. Peter's going to wave him right on into the VIP section for the absolute rib-roaster that obliterated Raphael Alves' entire soul.

But I will go just for the sake of fun because nobody talked about it. And I do think at least to some extent, merits being talked about. Hamdi, baby. Hamdi Abd al-Wahab. Like, this is the first Egyptian fight. in UFC history, first Egyptian fighter to get a win in UFC history as he defeated Donel Mays by split decision. A little surprised he was a splitie, thought he won two rounds.

But this is a dude who was an Olympic Greco-Roman wrestler. It's very impressive to be an Olympian regardless. Like he was not a world-class, you know, top-tier Greco guy. But again, made the Olympics, moved over. he is athletic for heavyweight, which is always a good sign. Super early in his career, Jorge Moswell has talked big about him because he fought for ICON for a little bit. Fought nobody of any substance before making his UFC debut.

Want to be super clear. All his wins are garbage. Don Tell Meese is not garbage. Don't tell mez isn't like a great fighter, but we're talking to dude who I think that was his fourth professional fist fight. Like he has the bones to something and he showed stuff there. He got hurt. He fought through it.

He can strike. a little bit. I won't say he's good at it, but he's got some power and he's willing, which is half the battle, especially from someone coming from a non-striking background. And when the chips were down, when he needed to do something, you saw in that third round, he went to the wrestling. He could do that because he's a friggin Olympian. So he's still very early in his career, but I think there are signs that he could make some noise down the road at heavyweight, which is an awful division and being you know relatively young for heavyweight because he's not 40 years old means he's got time to develop so i'll go with hamdy also his name's hamdy that's just fun yeah that was

a that was a much crazier fight and i'm sure the other standout is way more fun than anyone thought it would be yeah and i'm sure your other standout is not betting on Alex morono on shark week like the tail end of shark week miscalculation made a mistake I don't think I made a mistake because when Matthew Simmelzberger was like, oh, I'm actually just a way better athlete in the third round. He was putting the wood to Marono for a minute. He just forgot that like athleticism is a cheat code and he has a lot of it and Barano has none.

And so he lost. But, you know, sometimes it happens. It happens. Sometimes you make a miscalculation. Sometimes you come on this show with a chance to get another victory, notched onto the resume. So with that being said, the point for round two goes to Jed, the Great White Michoud. It is two to two.

Tapping into the Alex Baroto chain right there. And I'm very excited about this next question. I mean, I'm not overly excited that we're actually talking about it, but I'm curious to get your reactions to this, because I haven't heard your reactions to this. We found out during UFC 277 on Saturday that the highly anticipated boxing matchup between Jake Paul and Haseem Rockman Jr. is no longer happening.

Jake Paul's promotion, MVP, has, has stated that Hasim Rockman Jr. just wasn't planning on making the weight, that he has been a stickler, that he's going to fight at 250 pounds, and I'm going to try to get to 205 pounds. Of course, Rockman is denying those allegations. In fact, he has said on multiple occasions this week

that he plans on weighing in and making 205 by tomorrow anyhow, just to prove that this wasn't the case. He's claiming Jake Paul was just kind of scared to fight and didn't want to lose. And now we're all over the place, Dana White's saying that it's due to, ticket sales or lack thereof and there's all these different things going on and we'll dive into some of those conspiracy theories in a moment but jed we will begin with you when you found out

watching ufc 277 preparing your greatness with the live blogging that this fight this card was no longer happening at the mecca madison square garden this saturday how did you react to it i i had a lot of reactions and i'm still because i've decided not paid that much attention. So, because I don't want to spend too much of my life thinking about Jake Paul when he's not fighting MMA fighters, even though there's some morbid curiosity there. My thoughts boiled down to, well, this was probably always how it was going to go. And really, that sounds about right.

Like, I am not here to excuse Asim Rahman Jr. Because they, Robin Jr., they made a contract. and from the sounds of it, were not holding up to their end of what they agreed to before the fight. I will also say, as many have pointed out, that some of those stipulations, while agreed to, were done so

almost exclusively because Jake Paul wants to leverage the fight as much as possible in his favor, which he can do because he's the money behind this, right? Like, he, in the negotiations for the fight, it is essentially a take it or leave it from. He can come in and say, yes, Or he can say no, but he can't really negotiate.

I don't want to do these weight things. This doesn't work for me or whatever because Jake has the bag. Jake's giving the bag. So Jake can add whatever stupid stipulations he wants. He can demand that Hasim, you know, wears a tea cozy on his head and, you know, dances around at the way ends. Like he can make those sorts of things. And so there's a little bit of that to it. The thing I will say, my biggest key takeaway, because I do not care that this fight isn't.

happening. My biggest takeaway is Jake Paul is full of shit because, I mean, in one very specific instance, because Jake Paul has cast himself as the hero of fighters, as the savior of all fighters, and he is coming to save MMA fighters from their big, mean Uncle Dana, the promoter. And I am not a friend, Dana White, to promoter. God knows anyone who's ever watched any of our programs, knows my thoughts in general here. And certainly on the UFC's business practices and fight or pay, et cetera. But Jake Paul has also cast himself as the savior of women's boxing. You know, I'm helped promoting the Katie Taylor, Amanda Serrano fight, and Amanda's going

to fight on my undercards. And I believe that Amanda was supposed to fight on the undercard of this one. Am I wrong in that? Tell me if I'm wrong. No, they were, they were, she wasn't even, like, slotted in as the co-made events. They were slotted in as, like, co-made eventers. like we're both the main event it's a double main event i'm in one fight amanda's in the other we're both exactly exactly and this is amanda sarano is his fighter and he is putting on a thing and

now he he has the he has the sole ability to make this event continue happening he can say eff it i don't care i don't care if you come in way in 220 like it doesn't matter to me we're going to get in we're going to get busy and because i have other fighters depending on me in this car Amanda Serrano is here, and I think I can beat you. Straight up, I think I'm better than you, and weight doesn't matter. He ain't doing that. He's saying, no, that extra five pounds is a bridge too far. And also anyone who's ever watched any of our programming should know,

that I think weight is the stupidest thing. Like, I don't care at all about weight differentiations in the sport. It has never interested me unless it's like Demetius Johnson fighting Francis and Ghanu. Because, like, if any of you, if you ever train, ever trained any at like combat sports at all the training room is go with someone roughly your size it's not well all right who's are you one you're 136 no i'm 135 i got to go find another 135 you just go with dudes around your size that's how it works it's the same way it works in the real world by the way you don't go to a bar and someone picks a fight with you're like you got two

you got i don't know two to seven pounds on me i got a back out of this one but you're you're you're the soft candy ass or whatever. Like, no, it's, you want to get into a fist fight, you get into a fist fight. And Jake Paul talked a rash of shit, and he ain't backing it up. And again, I am not excusing Seymroms Jr. Because you make a contract, you agree, you follow the terms. But he wants to act big, bad, and tough about getting into a fist fight,

and he backs out of it when one is still on the table, because that is the truth of it. They could still do this. Jake Paul said no, because the bad man weighed too much, and I don't want to fight the bad man who weighs too much. And I get why from a business standpoint, he does that. But it all just feels grungy to me. All right. Damien, what do you think? Jed's on team grungy with the reaction here. Are you on the same side? Like, what was your reaction on Saturday to all this? I mean, you know, to quote one of my all-time favorite movies Fight Club, I am Jack's utter lack of surprise that the fight got canceled because I think we all saw.

all this like as soon as the fight got made and they were talking about you know has seen rockman didn't want to sign the contract and then there was you know negotiations going on behind the scenes for that and then we got the cancellation over weight i mean none of it shocked me because this is just kind of standard fair for what we expect after the whole tommy fury you know debacle listen while i agree in theory with what jed's saying about the weight i do have to say if you're a professional fighter and you sign a contract to fight at a certain weight class no you can make that weight and he says he can make 205 he's going to make 205 we also have to remember this fight was in new york and the new york commission is weirdly specific about weight rules and

things like that i mean they've canceled ufc fights when there were discrepancies in weight between fighters so we can't pretend this was totally on jake paul for that part of it because the new york commission is very weird about kind of stuff like that but listen the i listen i'm not saying that jake paul is great i don't listen the idea that he's ever going to go on beat as salk Canelo Alvarez. Come on, let's just stop. Just stop talking about that kind of stuff. Okay, he's not.

Okay, he's not going to beat Canelo. He's not going to be Demetri Bivel. He's not going to be any of those guys. Okay, let's just get that out of our heads. But the idea that Jake Paul was terrified of Hasim Rockman Jr., a guy with a 12-1 record who has wins over two fighters with winning records, one of which is a guy who has a 26 and 21 resume, and the other guy, I believe, was like five and three.

All of his other wins come against guys who are either. They're making their debut who are like one and nine. He just got the brakes beaten off him by Kenzie Morrison, the son of Tommy the Machine Gun. Hasim Rockman is demonstrably a terrible boxer. Okay, he is awful. Watch his fights. He is terrible.

He is not a good fighter. He is getting by because he is the son of a guy who went out and won one big fight in his career against Lennox Lewis and then got beat up by Lennox Lewis in the rematch. Hasim Rockman Jr. is not good. Okay, so I'm not saying that I'm not saying. If you ain't scared, fight him. If he ain't scared, fight him. But that's what I'm saying.

That book, I am not here to tell you that professional fighters are afraid of other professional fighters. I say it all the time. I genuinely do not believe that. Jake Paul ain't a professional fighter. Jake Paul is a YouTuber. And if you ain't scared, get in there and fist fight him. Because it's the only, it is the only plausible explanation. Because if he is genuinely not afraid of this fight.

and he is also not a professional boxer because he clearly is not. He has other revenue streams. Then the actual best narrative for his whole fabrication is, this dude couldn't make weight. Son of a former champion. I was already the underdog and he can't even come in. But because I love the fighters on my undercar, because I love Amanda Serrano,

and because I ain't scared of nobody, I'm going to step in there and I'm going to beat this dude's ass. I'm going to show him what missing weight means is a professional. professional athlete, and he gets in there and does the damn thing. Jake Paul blows up even bigger than he already is. But the only plausible explanation that I can see here is that he, maybe is it scared in that, look, I say all the time, I'm not afraid to get my ass beat. I've had my ass beat plenty of times.

It's not that bad to get beat up in this world. But he is legitimately concerned that he might go in and lose because that dude is not, you want to talk about Rockman's record? Who's Jake Paul beat? Jake Paul beat Tyne Woodley, who wasn't even a good boxer in M.MA? He beat Ben Ascran, who was an awful boxer in MMA? And Nate Robinson, like, he hadn't beat anybody either. He is legitimately concerned that this might be the thing that loses him, and he is playing it safe.

And that's, we just, I just want to call it what it is. But I want him to just come out and say it. You're absolving Rockman of all responsibility here. If he doesn't, if he can't make the way, don't sign the contract. He signed the contract because this is the biggest fight. I mean, he's just coming off getting worked by Kenzie Morrison. This is the biggest fight he could possibly get because he's never going to get this good again. So you're absolving Rockman of all responsibility by signing a contract saying, I'm going to make 200 pounds.

He clearly can't make 200 pounds. Then they move it to 205. He can't make two. This is going back to like what happened with Paulo Costa and Marvin Vittori. I was one of the people banging the drum saying just scrap the fight and drop, just release Paulo Costa. because when you're starting to pull all this crap, the week of the fight, and saying, well, I can't make 185, maybe I can make 195. Well, I can't make 195. Maybe I can make 205.

Now, to your point, credit for Marvin Vittori. Marvon Vitori took the fight and beat his ass. Yeah, I'll take the fight and do it. But at some point, there's got to be some professional responsibility involved. If you're going to take a fight, you're going to sign a contract saying, I can make 205 pounds. Make 205 pounds. They signed the contract at 200 pounds. They moved it up to 205.

Okay, 205. He can't make that. He can't make, I mean, now he's saying he's saying 215 is what we're hearing is what he said he can make. At what point do we draw the line and say, okay, we just can't continue to move things. You're just moving the goalpost constantly. Again, I'm not saying Jake Paul is great. I'm not saying Jake Paul is good. I'm not even saying Jake Paul is a good boxer by any stretching imagination.

But I'm just saying that at some point, we have to put the responsibility back on the guy who signed a contract. Hasim Rockman Jr. who is a bad boxer, a really, really bad boxer, signed a contract to fight at 200 pounds. If I'm Haseem Rockman Jr. And I'm coming off a loss to Tommy the Machine Gunn's son. I'm sorry.

I'm calling him to that's his Rocky 5 name. It's Tommy Morrison. He's coming off a loss to Tommy Morrison's son. He got worked in that fight. And it was a blowout. I mean, he got work for the first few rounds and he got knocked out. This is the biggest opportunity of his life. If you're not out there doing everything you can do to make 200 pounds to fight Jake Paul

and go out and get your $2 million payday or $1 million payday or whatever payday you're going to get, then it's on you. This is all on Haseem Rockman Jr. Because he signed the contract and had no care in the world to actually make the weight. Obviously he didn't because now he's making every excuse the world to say, well, I could, yeah, maybe he will weigh it to 205 pounds come Friday or Saturday or whatever he's saying he's going to do it. That doesn't mean he can actually fight the next day or he actually made any real effort to make that before now. So I'm not, I'm not saying Jake Paul doesn't, you know, he couldn't

have taken the file. He's different. I get it. But the blame falls on Hasim Rockman Jr. because this was his chance. This was his time to make a whole lot of money to do, to basically fight a YouTuber, as you're calling him. And he blew it. This is, this is Tommy Fury times two. Tommy Fury couldn't get in the country, Hassim Rockman can't make weight. Good Lord, guys. Just do what you got to do. Go get your paycheck and get out of here. I don't understand why it's so freaking hard.

That was a rant and a half. Love that. Last thing for you move on, I'm sure people are like pounding on their tables. Like stop talking about Jake Paul, but I don't care. We got to talk about it. We have to refer to him as the coward Jake Paul now. Damon, what do we do now? Because we can't do Tommy Fury.

They might try, but you can't do it. It's just going to get eye rolls and reactions. And I mean, it's pretty much every time we get a Jake Paul fight on paper. Anyways, you can't do Rockwin Jr. again because we're not going to go down that road unless you do it like in Florida when it doesn't matter. What the hell are we going to do now? Like who's going to fight Jake Paul now? Like is this September 10th fight between Nate Diaz and Hamzaa Hamzaa Shima have? Is this part of it in some way?

Are they like, well, you know what? Maybe we can fight Nate at the end of the year. and we don't have to worry about any of this stuff. Like what do we do now? Do you want, okay, there's two versions of this. There's what should happen and what will happen. What should happen is Jake Paul signs to fight Anderson Silva, and then we never talk about Jake Paul again,

because Anderson Silva will go out there and just demolish Jake Paul. The fight lasts maybe three rounds. Anderson Silva knocks him out, and then we're not talking about Jake Paul anymore. That's what should happen. That's the fight that should have happened now. that's the fight that should have been booked before Tommy Fury. That's the fight that should have been booked after Tommy Fury.

But we all know that's not going to happen because Anderson Silva would beat the breaks off Jake Paul. He beat the breaks off of Hossim Rockman Jr. He beat the breaks off Tommy Fury. So we know that's not going to happen. So what will happen, they're going to watch Nate Diaz go out there and get thrown around the Octagon for, you know, three rounds or two rounds or however long to fight last for Hamza to basically chuck him out of the cage. and then they're going to sign Nate Diaz to fight Jake Paul, you know, December, January, whenever, you know, whenever Nate can reattach his head to his body after Hamzot's done with him, they're going to throw him in there and that's going to be the fight.

Because we all know that's the one they want. And listen, I'm not faulting Nate for doing it. Go get paid, Nate. 100%. Nate, go out and get paid. I hope he does. The UFC's doing him dirty as it is right now. The UFC is absolutely doing Nate Diaz dirty with, you know, holding up his contract and then making him fight Hamzot Tamayev.

be that as it may, that's the fight that's probably going to happen. Should it happen? Should that be the fight? Absolutely not. It should be Anderson Silva. But you and I and the rest of the world knows Jake Paul is not signing up to fight Anderson Silva. It's just not good. You talk about being quote unquote afraid of a fight.

No one should be afraid of fighting Hussim Rockland Jr. You should be afraid of fighting Anderson Silva. This might be the most chaotic round in the history of the show and I love it. Jed, you get the mighty pencil again. It's a powerful tool. what are we doing here what's going to happen what should happen what will jake paul fight next we know he's fighting nate ds that's why he's chickening out of the the rachman fight because if he goes and gets knocked out of rockman regardless of what happens if the weight comes in and rockman is 30 pounds over

and he said eff it i'm gonna do it because you suck ass and i'm better than you and goes and gets blown up it still takes the shine off the nate dyes fight and that's the money fight because that is that is the truth of what has happened here is he is maybe not afraid of Rockman in that in the general conception of the term. But he recognizes that as bad as Rockman might be, there is a legitimate threat for the first time he's going to fight someone who's bigger than him, who he doesn't have a massive athletic and physical advantage over and who at least has been a professional boxer. Whether it's bad or good, he is a professional in that. And that can, that brings with it legitimate danger and risk when instead he can just use this as a good excuse to say nah

eff it move aside Nate finally has an out because I guarantee you if Nate didn't have this on the books that this was not planned if Nate was still in forever cold war with Dana White and getting out of his contract then this would look different because then there's he he wants to get a fight in this timeline etc with Nate in plate. Nate is in play. That is the goal. That is the end game. Nate does whatever against Hamzot. Nate's not pulling out of that fight if you shot him on the walk to the ring. He is going to finish his contract and get the F out of the UFC. And as soon as his paper is clear, he's going to get a phone call. Hey man, when are we doing this? Let's do this thing. And they're

going to build it. They're going to give you a full court media press. And they're going to do the thing. And that's the right business decision. And that is what's going to happen. It's what should happen. but do not think for a second that the withdrawal from the August 6th event, it was August 6th, right, is not directly tied to Nate Diaz having a fight on the books and almost being out of the UFC because it absolutely is. Maybe that's what happens. We shall see. I think that's the favorite.

If there's betting lines for this one, you got to go in that direction. That's a big favorite too. If there's a book out there, it's got to be like minus 400. And I've said this all week when people have asked about this. There's only five or six people on this planet who know exactly what happened with this fight. We can contextualize it. We can make predictions. We can have our thoughts on why this fight's not happening on Saturday.

But again, there's only like five or six people on planet Earth who know exactly what happened. But it's dumb. It's a travesty. And I feel bad for the rest of the fighters on the card who aren't going to get the chance to fight in Madison Square Guard and Amanda Serrano specifically. But let's move on. let's move away from this. The point for round three goes to gotta give it to Damon.

He is just on fire today. And Jed was on one too, but I thought David just brought the thunder. It was good stuff. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ,

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At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winners? Stop wondering, start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. Speaking of thunder, Jed, let's begin with you here because I know how excited you are to talk about this. What is... Let's follow up UFC 277 with the return. to the almighty UFC Apex.

UFC Vegas 59. We have a big light heavyweight fight. There are some stakes here, especially more so for one side of the fight. Coal main event is excellent in the wealth of weight division. We're going to crown two ultimate fighter champions. We got Terrence McKinney back on the card. And we got a couple of interesting matchups

that I didn't even realize were happening until I looked at the actual card on Sunday. So UFC Vegas 59, Jed, having heard just that, not even looking at the rest of the card, 1 to 10, what's your excitement level for this next apex card and a little over 48 hours from right now? 2.347. This card is awful.

I say it a lot. If you have family or friends in town, it's totally okay to skip this one and go to MMAfighting.com. It's the best website in the whole wide world. And you can follow along because we're going to have coverage. We're going to have every possible angle of this sphere of a card. We're going to cover it intently. We're going to have live blogs.

We're going to have post-fight press conference, all of that. So you can hear about the two things of note that may have happened because this card is bad. There's just no way around it. Like there is one fight that's awesome because the co-mate event is a banger. Do not get me wrong. I will tune in for Vizente Lucay any day of the week. He's fighting Jeff Neal, who is also really, really fun. I think this is very competitive, exciting scrap.

That fight rules. And then, like, there are things that you can talk yourself into. Terrence McKinney's usually pretty fun. He's, you know, on the undercard. Miranda Grange and Corey McKenna is hilarious because there's a 10-inch reach discrepancy. And I don't know. That can't have happened more than like a half dozen times in the history of the UFC. And then, yeah, that's it, unless you're really vibe in Augusto Sykkao Sergei Spivak.

Notably, you might be watching this right now, viewers, and say, Jed, but you didn't mention the main event. Because the main event is going to suck because I'm sorry. Tiago Santos is the least fun fighter in the UFC. It's just true. And you're thinking to yourself, no. I see his highlight packages. The UFC, you know, they've given the promo thing about this. Nope.

those are from 2017 he hasn't been fun in like three he has not been fun since he knocked out yon blahovitch before fighting john jones he fought john jones in 2019 it is three years since he has done something cool in the cage he has mostly just lost awful awful fights and then he won one one awful awful fight against dominic graz it is just he i don't know what it is i'm sure some of it's getting old. Some of it's that he blew out both his knees in the John Jones fight. Really tough to come back from a double knee-blown surgery, I assume, having

never done it myself, but he's not that fun anymore because you look at a lot of these fights like, they're supposed to be fun. Him versus Johnny Walker on paper was supposed to be dope. Nope, one of the worst fights I've ever seen. Him versus Magamonankalive was supposed to be cool

because like Tiago Santos, absolute hitter, Magman Ancalaev, best dude in the division. Horrible. bad fight. Like, he's just not fun anymore. And so as fun as Jamal Hill is, this is probably just going to look like that. Where Teago... where both men respect each other's power too much

to actually throw at either of them, so we get a staring contest for 25 minutes, because for the love of God, I can't figure out why the UFC has decided I know that Tiago Santos has burned us four fights in a row. Being boring as shit.

But let's give him 25 more minutes because that's what the fans need right now it's going to be awful uh the main event the people's main event anyone with a brain sales main event is the co-main event uh because i don't know we need a term for this you know a key has penultimate fights versus co-main events we need a term for when the co-main event is the actual main event because luke jof neal that's the best fight in the car tune in for that one and none of the rest of it i didn't even mention the sam alvey's on this freaking car Sam Alvey. His card is awful.

Oh, wow. What are we doing? Wow, a standing ovation for that rants. I mean, we might have to move the show to noon Eastern from now on, because it's just absolute fire. Damon, Jed gave it like a 2.3457. What are we given your excitement level for UFC Vegas 59? First off, let me give my own standing applause to Jed for that one,

because that was pretty spectacular. And somehow, I didn't think this was possible. I really didn't think this was possible because I was like, okay, I'm usually, I try to take a little bit more of a positive spending with the terrible cards, but I'm actually going to rate this lower than Jed. He said 2.3. This is like a 1.6, and here's why. I don't, this main event he keeps talking about, Jed.

The one question I have, what main event, what I don't even know this main event you're talking about is, I haven't even heard this one. The main event is Jeff Neal and Vicente Lucca. I don't even know what main event you're talking about. I don't even heard of this, Tiago Santos, Jamal Hill fight you keep talking about. I don't even know that's happening, right? The main event is, of course, Jeff Neal, Vicente Lucke.

The other part that you didn't even mention, which is really the least selling of a terrible, terrible fight card. It is a six-fight main card featuring two ultimate fighter finalies with four fighters you've never heard of on a show you've never watched. a k lee has and if you go to mhmatfighting.com great website we have recaps on all the tough shows and it's a 10 p.m. Eastern start time for a six fight awful fight card that to me lowers this

down to like the bottom of the barrel in terms of where this fight card ranks at least if it was like a 4 p.m. start time you think maybe I'll get out of here about like seven and I can like you know take some drinks to you know commiserate what was a terrible card No, you're going to stay up till 2 a.m. to watch Tiago Santos lose a. 4946 decision to Jamal Hill. That's what you're staying up till 2 a.m. to watch folks, okay? And you're going to see two ultimate fighter finales that nobody cares about. They're on the main card that nobody. These, the ultimate fighter finale fights could literally be the opening fights on the early prelims and no one would care about them, okay?

They're on the main card. this is a horrible horrible card and you're making it at 10 p.m. Eastern start time. That is such a ridiculous notion. Like I'm saddened that this is going to go on until 2 a.m. on Saturday night. That's what we're going to be talking about at 2 a.m. is how Jamal Hill just beat Tiago Santos by decision. No. This is, the ultimate fighter should have been canceled like 19 seasons ago and we're still having a finale that no one cares about.

It is so bad. This is so, so bad. Hand up. Hand up. I truly did not know this was a 10 p.m. start time. I would like to say two things. The first thing I would like to say is I adjust my rating to a point one to. It says, wow.

The second thing, I would like to issue a sincere and heartfelt thank you to Deputy. Peterator, Stephen Morocco of MNFighton.com, great website. Because I was supposed to work Saturday, and then he was like, hey, would you like to take this Saturday off because you did this other thing? And I was like, you know what? Sure, I haven't had a Saturday off in a long time. Thank you, Stephen, because I did not know that you were saving me from the worst Saturday night of my life.

Tune into MMAFighting.com. Please don't watch this part. I was going to say, make sure you watch the preview show tomorrow. I'm sure you're going to be real excited after that sale. And make sure you watch the post fight show. No, you should watch us. We're entertaining. We're great.

All of our content is spectacular at MFad.com. Great website. It's just, and you know what's great about our preview show? It's not at 2 a.m. What the hell? It's just, whoo. All right. So, listen, I do want to, I do want to try to glass half full of this in some way, okay?

because whether how, no matter how we feel, the ultimate main event is Vicente Luque versus Jeff Deal. That's what we think. That's what we think. That's what the most excited about. Let's just say. It's a great fight. That's a great fight. Let's just say, Damon, Jamal Hill goes out there on Saturday

and blows the doors off Tiago Santos. Let's just say he goes out there. Tiago gets a little crazy. Jamal catches him with a big counter, knocks him into the cage like he did to Johnny Walker and Jamal Hill gets another huge first round finish. Where does he go from here? Like how excited would you be?

Not just because the card is over, but just like at his potential and where he could go in this division, how high can he go coming off of a performance like that? Should that happen on Saturday? Let me say this. I've made a lot of fun of this card because it's a terrible car, but I do really like Jamal Hill.

I think he is a really solid prospect. Of course, he had that kind of shocking loss to Paul Craig. which, you know, credit to Paul Craig for pulling up the win the way he did, but Jamal Hill is a very, very good prospect. And this is, you know, again, if he can go out there and beat the brakes off of Tiago Santos, yeah, it's a big win.

I think it's going to set him up for a top five, top six fight, which doesn't say a lot in a light heavyweight division because that division is not very good. But it all depends on what they end up doing with the title fight because you got, you know, Yuri Pajaska, and it looks like Lovertscher, they're going to run it back. You got Jan Blahovitch out there and you got Magamette Ankaliev. now Ankleyev and Blahovic sure sounds like a lot of fun and that seems to be the most logical

matchup to make if you're going to make Pajasca and Tashara so then Jamal Hill kind of becomes the odd man out. So it basically is that, Jamal Hill facing whoever's left out of that, you know, array of fights. And I think he's in that range. I think he's in that top five, top six range of where he's going to get one of those kind of guys. I would love to say, you know, Anthony Smith would be a perfect next kind of opponent, but unfortunately, we know Anthony Smith's going to surgery for the broken ankle, probably going to be out for a while. Yeah, I'd almost feel bad saying, well, you bring back a guy like Dominic Reyes, who is a, you know, a proven contender,

throw him in there against a wood chipper like, like Jamal Hill, that might be a little bit mean. But, yeah, I think he's in that top five, top six range. He's just kind of in that, you know, as you said, the barren of bad timing because there's just not going to be a big fight available for him at that point. Because, again, I think Ankelaia Blovich makes the most sense if you're going to do Chera Pohashka. So then he's kind of stuck in no man's line waiting for a fight. That's the only downside. but I'm high on Jamal Hill. I think he's very good.

And by the way, let me just go ahead and say this. If Jamal Hill can go out there and knock out Tiago Santos in the first round and finish this card at like 1.30 a.m. as opposed to 2 a.m. I will, I will start banging the drum. And I will personally lead the Jamal Hill bandwagon for getting me out at 1.30 as opposed to 2 o'clock, which is what I fully predict is going to happen with this card. Jed, what say you? What say you?

Jamal Hill goes out there, has a fun, fun, a fun performance, does the damn thing. What does this lead to? I agree with the law what Dammit said. Look, if someone can make Tiagra Santos fun, it's probably going to be Jamal Hill because Jamal Hill probably won't care and will just be like,

let's chuck him and see who falls first. And maybe that can be fun. And God hope it is, because that will be better for everyone involved. Sadly, though, if he wins, he doesn't get much out of this. Because, hey, I'm looking, pulled up the UFC rankings,

right now. They've got Tiago Santos at six, which is astonishing to me, but that is where he is in the UFC's light heavyweight rankings. So that's going to move them into the top 10. But like Damon said, everybody in front of him, they have an obvious next dance partner or they just blew out their knee in, you know, in the case of Anthony Smith and Alexander Rockich. So it's, it's tough for him to see. The two options are if you're Jamal Hill, what you need to do is you need to pick the fight. You need to come out on the, you need to come out, make a statement,

knock out Tiago Santos viciously, and you need to use your mic time afterward to call for a fight with Jan Blahevich. Because Erie wants Glover, that's probably what's going to happen, even though Jan doesn't want it, whatever, Jan wants his shot. And obviously, Ankaliev wants his shot.

But Ankhaliev isn't burning the doors down, and he didn't use his time to effectively say, all right, if Yiri's going to fight Glover, Yanni, it's you and me, let's go. So Jamal Hill should take that opportunity and be like, hey, look, Jan, you're going to get passed over. He can even say you're going to get screwed out of your title fight, Jan.

So let's you and me go put on a fan. I want to put on a show for the fans. I want to test out legendary Polish power against my right hand. Let's do the damn thing. That's what he needs to do to have any shot at fighting up next. But he probably won't. And probably the next, honestly, he's probably going to fight Dustin Jacoby or Khalil Roundtree next. because like you could do os demur

os demur coming off the paul crag thing and that would be close but if jacobie comes and beats um gluel roundtry junior in a emphatic or interesting way he's going to move up the rankings a little bit and at that point it becomes a jacobi deserves to be getting that and that fight would also just be dope like that would be incredibly fun to watch chamoille and dustin jacobozy chuck them so i think that's probably where we end up but may but hill has an outside chance to really make a strong case for a Yanni Blacco fight.

Yeah, maybe he gets Dominic Reyes when he's ready to return. That's a decent size name from his while. I just don't believe that Dominic Reyes return. I'll believe he's coming back when he's coming back. He's been out for a few. Also, I want to apologize. I didn't mention Alexander Rackage because he's doing the Tiago Santos thing where he's winning and doing forgettable performances

where Tiago's losing in unforgettable, unforgettable performances. So I apologize. I forgot Alexander Rackage, the guy who's highest rank, who has not a single fight. I remember. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's, I remember him busting his knee against Jan Bogovic.

Does that count? That might be the one time. That's the one time. You got it, Jed. You got it, Jed. You got it. Because that was a string of weekends where the main event just kept falling over injured.

So. Oh, man. All right. Let us move ahead. That is this Saturday. Make sure you tune in, everybody. If you can't, M.AFighting.com. Point for round four goes to

I mean, you got to give it to Jed. I mean, it's just such passion, such emotion, such excitement for the Saturday's car. And that means we're going to the knock around people. So there's probably going to be a poll in the YouTube channel. So make sure you vote on who's going to win. Is a Jed? Is a Damon? I think draw has been an option the last couple of times.

But we're going to ask one question. Well, each of these guys are going to have an opportunity to speak for 60 seconds. Once there's 60 seconds are over, You could vote on who you think should win this show. And then we'll bring on Casey and he will announce the winner based on your vote. So, Jed, you are the senior here on this program, the winningest player in the history of the show. We're going to have some fun here. So do you want to go first or do you want to go second?

I'll go second. I'll let Damon have the fun first. Okay. So Damon, you're going to go first. We're going to play a fun game because both you and Jed have been just cutting some great promos today. And I figured with one of these fights that has just been announced as a as a targeted bout, one that could create some just great promos. We're going to turn this knockout round into like a regional WWF segment. And I'm going to have you choose door number one or door number two before we, I explain to you what we're going to do here.

All right. Let's go with door number number. I'll go to door number two. Door number two. And I'm so glad you said this. So Damon, we have a fight that's targeted for the end of the year between Dustin Porre and Michael Chilner. And a lot of people have, a lot of people are very excited for this. I know why you're excited that he chose that door.

I'm more excited than I have ever been. So, Damon, this is like a regional WWF promo where it's just you and the people and you're trying to sell tickets for this event for this fight. You, my friend, are the former interim lightweight champion of the world, Dustin Porre. and you have 60 seconds to sell me on why this is the fight, why we should tune in, why this is, this could be the best fight of 2022.

One minute on the clock, Dustin. Your time starts now. Well, everybody knows what I bring to the table every time I fight. I step in there and I deliver Louisiana hot sauce in my hands. Every single time I step in there, I go out there and I put on a fight, fight of the year, fight of the night.

That's just what I do. And when I go out there and fight this Bellator bum, I'm going to prove why he is a B-League fighter. I'm going to go out there and put him away the way to Justin Gates, you couldn't put him away. I'm going to put him away more dominantly than Charles Olivera put him away. I'm going to send him back.

He's going to have Scott Coker on speed dial when I'm done with him, okay? This is going to go out there, and it's going to be a one-sided beat down, and I'm going to go out there and put on a performance with Lifetime, and you want to watch it. You want to see me go out there

and beat him up, get another big knockout. I'm going to dispatch him like I did Connor. He's going to be calling up Jake Gilliall trying to get a role in a movie He just like Conner did after I was done with him. It's going to be a one side of beat down. It's going to be a great fight. You know you want to watch it.

You know you want to see it. And you know you want to see me. Send him back to Bellator when I'm done with Michael Chandler. I don't need any more after that. I'm done with this guy. There you go. And let me just say this. I know Jed might be thinking this is fixed.

But honestly, I was kind of hoping he would choose doer number one. And you could be Dustin Porier because the things you might have come up with in the Porier role would have been tremendous. But I have to say, I am equally as intrigued. I am actually very intrigued by this. Because, Jed, you have to become the man that you have ripped to shreds

for the last couple of years on this program. You are the man who will be fighting Dustin Porreier, either in November or December. You, my friend, are Iron Michael Chandler. One minute on the clock. Sell me on this fight. Why is this the one? Go.

Dustin Porriye! because I like to yell in all my post-fight interviews instead of being interesting. I know I didn't want to fight you, Dustin Poirier. I know that you were far down on the list because you actually might be decent and then that would be me fighting somebody who's not old and washed or bad.

But I'm fighting you for one specific reason, Dustin Poirier, and it's because you talked crap about the UFC. You were bitching about Dana not giving you a fight. And if there's one thing I'm going to do, it's defend and lick the bird. of Dana White. So let's go, Dustin Poirier. Sure, I haven't beaten anybody relevant at lightweight in years, and frankly, neither have you, but we're both squatting on high rankings and depressing

all the fun, exciting, up-and-coming lightweights. So let's keep doing that, because we're probably going to knock each other out, and it's going to at least be really violent and fun, even if it's not going to mean nearly as much as the numbers next to our names makes it seem like it does. let's go to the moon straight to the top, sorry. Oh my God. Ah, that was amazing. That was unbelievable.

And you know what? I heard my soul. Jen has always said, well, Jed's like, I've never been like a pro wrestling guy. I don't even know what you're talking about. I don't believe you.

I officially don't believe you because you cut that promo, like 80 style pro wrestler. That was like Roddy Piper getting you into San Francisco, bro. That's how Michael Chandler does it. He just yells. I just didn't want to scream at the

top of my lungs because that seemed a bit much. Although I think, although, although I will say, and that was, that was great. I will say you did kind of blow it with the, you got straight to the moon instead of straight to the top. You did kind of, you, you did muff that one a little bit. I fumbled the ball at the end on the one yard line, just dropped it. You had it. You had it.

Well, cast your votes because that was outstanding. Is it going to be Jedmishu? Is it going to be Damon Martin? Is it going to be a draw? Are we just going to call it right down the middle? and call it a draw. So just let you know tomorrow we'll have a preview show. And I'm sure after what these guys had to say about UFC Vegas 59,

that's when you're not going to want to miss. So stay tuned for that. We'll also have heck of a morning tomorrow morning as well. We'll have the people's pre-fight show. I'm not sure what time, but we'll let you know that we'll have the post-fight show right before the sun comes up on the East Coast. And then AK and I will be back on Sunday for another episode of On to the next one for some matchmaking fun.

And at this time, let's bring in. the honorable e Casey Liden, which by the way, check out no bets barred as well. Because even though Jed may not be all that enthused to watch the card, he is probably got some bets down. You could see where he's putting his money, where he's sprinkling the cash around. No, no bets? No bets are barred. So the best way to enjoy otherwise lacklester fight card is to have skin in the game. So I have more bets than I should.

Because why not? There you go. And yes. When is, we also recorded, Dan, they were good on Rhonda Rousey, which is a lot of fun. When is that dropping? Is that dropping playing on today? It's either coming up this afternoon or tomorrow. I don't know how the schedule will work, but one of those two.

It was a very fun episode. Jed hosted. It was A.K., myself, and you had to get New York Rick in there. Otherwise, the show just doesn't make sense at all, considering the takes upon takes he has had about Rhonda Rousey over the air. So now we go over to you, K. Casey. You've heard the arguments.

I wish I was part of the Ronda Rousey show. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I, I, I feel Bronner Rousy is probably maybe the most underappreciated fighter. We talked a lot about that, actually. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. I don't, I don't, I don't, earlier in the, hold on, earlier in the show, though, Jed, when you talked about Amanda Nunes's the biggest wins, you failed to mention Ronda. Come on now. You didn't even mention Ronda in her top five wins. I, I, I did not for a very specific reason.

Man, that hurts. That stings. Stings for poor Ronda. Don't listen to damn they were good because that fight, we don't, we don't speak well of it. No, we don't. Casey, who won this thing? Oh, we have a winner.

All right. Let me finish up this. I get everyone's voting. All right, here we go. Your winner. Today is the engineer and the Michael Chandler hype train, Jed Mishu. Jed gets it done. Michael Chandler finally did something good.

That was, that was a 16 problem. And it was despite a competitive four rounds. The fifth round was a 10-7. I'm sorry. It was like 70% of our voters, Jed Mishu, the most hated man in the YouTube comments still got 70% of the votes for that dominant fifth round. Great, great job, Damon Martin, but the fifth round, that was all. Judges took over.

I set him up with that Michael Chandler. That's what did me in. I set him up to actually have to promo Michael Chandler. That's what screwed me. Honestly, I would have had a harder time being Dustin Poirier, I think, because then I would have just been like, he sucks. I don't want to fight him. If Damon just chose door number one, would we be having the same conversation? Could be so different.

Jed, congratulations, my man. Back in the wind column. It's been a few shows, but you know the drill. 26 wins, 30 seconds to speak. You know, I don't have that much to say other than it's great to be back in the win column. And I want to make the case because I was not on the ranking show. I listened to the ranking show. If you haven't dropped yesterday, I believe, on the NBA Fighting Pod Network.

Great Pod Network, great show. The case that Magermanank Alive is actually the game. guy who was the most screwed right now of a title fight because let's be honest he is the man is won nine in a row at light heavyweight there's only been one other human being in history with nine wins in a row in the ufc light heavyweight division and it was john friggin jones and that man is not getting a title fight and so i agree alexander potosia and kettlin vier and all these other people and benille daryush was mentioned and all these other people they also have done a lot to deserve a title fight but he's the best 205 are in the world. He's on the biggest streak by far.

And he's just not going to get it. And that sucks. So I love you forever, Magerman Angolaev. And we're going to get there one day, baby. Let's go. There you go. Damon, any final thoughts here? No. I just want to say good job on the Michael Chandler pro. I could not have cut that any better myself. And way to go, Jed. And I agree with Mike. You may not say you like pro wrestling, but you got a little pro wrestler in you. I just never grew up watching it because my parents wouldn't let me. I think I would love it if I ever, like, got into it.

But now it just seems too difficult. Yeah, it's a lot. But that's it, everybody. We're done case you could hit the exit music as we say goodbye to another fantastic episode of Between the Links. We appreciate you. Join us tomorrow for UFC Vegas 59 fun for Jed, for Damon, for Casey on the ones and twos, for the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, who may or may not take you out of here. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for watching. We'll see you back once again next week between the links.

Good night, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links. I'm Mr. Lynn. Congratulations, Michael Chandler. Yeah, you rule. Whatever. Happy birthday, Yake. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.