MMA Fighting - BTL | UFC 322 Fallout, Dana White's Comments On Francis Ngannou, Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

UFC 322 is in the books, and there's a lot to discuss in regards to the fallout from the promotion's return to Madison Square Garden in New York City. Islam Makhachev dominated Jack Della Maddalena to capture the welterweight title — and become a two-division champ — while Valentina Shevchenko made it looks easy against Zhang Weili to retain the women's flyweight title. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses the burning stories coming out of UFC 322, what's next for Makhachev and Shevchenko, and other standout performances. Additionally, topics may include Dana White accusing Francis Ngannou of getting physical with him while competing for the UFC, Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua getting announced for Dec. 19, UFC Qatar this Saturday headlined by Arman Tsarukyan vs. Dan Hooker, the co-main event between Belal Muhammad and Ian Machado Garry, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-O-4-free at O-D-O-D-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-D-O-com. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S.

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Happy Thursday to us all. And, boy, we get a lot to talk about. this Thursday. It's always great when that happens. We are coming off of a memorable UFC 322 event where history was made on a number of fronts. We have some welterweight contenders who made some big moves. We have UFC Qatar coming up on Saturday, which is a pretty damn good fight night card. We found out Jake Paul's fighting Anthony Joshua, Dana White, throw it out all sorts of accusations about Francis and Ghanu that and much more and i am mike heck as the iconic voice said and joining me to answer your questions and discuss all these things and he has promised ladies

and gentlemen that he has many many takes he is mr no greyer the hot take kid himself the one and only jed bishu from m a fighting dot com go dogs indeed how are you sir i didn't know what else to put on the board because i don't there's just so much uh yeah man this is one of my favorite episodes of the year. And I don't mean because of what it's going to be. I mean holistically, Mike, because so rarely do we get good MMA. And I was very high on 322 heading into it. I gave it three Meschua with stars. I said it was the best card of the year, best card since you see 300. I know that not everyone will agree with this take. I feel the same way coming out of it. because even if the fights maybe weren't as thrilling or as exciting as some of the stuff we got it, say a UFC 300, it was all so meaningful that like we did a watch party, we did a post show.

I had thoughts immediately. I've had time to digest this whole event and sit with it because that's how good it was. I've been thinking about it a lot. And I just like, I just want to keep talking about it because this is what meaningful, good elite level MMA is. it's the best sport in the world and so rarely do we get to talk about the best sport in the world we get to talk about a really good sport now it's the like this is the peak of it i love when we get to talk about the peak of mb yeah what a what a nice little stretch we have 32 in the books obviously a lot to discuss there ufc guitar like we said looks really good big main event meaningful

co-main event which will kind of cap off this sort of walterweight grand prix so to speak and and then we get a week off for Turkey Day and on to the last pay-per-view ever, I guess, at least of the ESPN era with UFC 323 and then of course we have to close things out to the world's most famous Apex. I don't know how positive we will be

there, but at least for now it is nothing but positivity when it comes to the UFC and their efforts and the upcoming cards and there's just a lot happening right now. So let's just get right into it. Let's go right to the peeps. leave your questions lazy beds as he has questions uh good we've got answers lazy we have answers

well let's talk about the the big breaking news not just for the ufc and not just for ufc guitar but for the mary fighting fantasy team in the league oh my gosh joseph bozick we get their thoughts on i mean honestly huge for you so big making that you were functionally dead to rights and now you got a chance. Yes. Fifth fight for Waldo Cortez Acosta, he is stepping into fight Shemio Gadsiev, Sergeiq, Spivak withdraws undisclosed reasons. But I got to tell you, Jed, I'm very happy. I have a little insight to this as well, because I saw the initial report from Cece Le Gatsby, great, great dude over at ESPN. He reported this last night. Obviously, I reached out and we didn't actually like fully confirm it until this morning.

Actually, Shemiel kind of conferred himself on Twitter when I woke up this morning. But I hit up Waldo's coach, Javier, and I shot him a text. I'm like, is this, this is really happening? And he called me up and we discussed. And he told me that Waldo was in the Dominican Republic. He flew back like that day, I believe, or maybe yesterday or two days ago, began training, continued to work, and I was told that Dana White literally, like, made the call himself and said, hey, are you interested in this? And Waldo said yes. And Javier told me that

he went up to the gym and went up to Waldo himself. And because obviously, it's great to see his guy go in there and fight, but the dude just fought and got poked in the eye not that long ago. And he walks up to him and he looks in his eyes and says, do you really want to do this? And he said, yes and he said really do you really want to do this and he said yes and they asked him a third time and he said something that like was to the effect of absolutely i'm doing this i want to be the best heavy weight in the world i want to be a champion and that third that third ask was the one that he was like all right bet we're doing this so last night they flew from phoenix all the way to guitar they had to drive around and like get medicals done real quick they had to get the ufc to like approve visas

help them out with that. So he literally flew across the freaking world late last night from Phoenix to go to freaking Qatar to take this fight. So thoughts on Waldo Cortez Acosta doing this a few weeks after getting poked in the eye pretty badly, but still winning the fight against anti-Delijah and now gets this big opportunity against Gadsieff. I'm actually, you know what I want to do? I want to see if we've got odds up on this yet. I know this was only very recently like actually confirmed. So it might take them a little while to get true odds up on this.

But shout out to your boy because that didn't see this one coming, right? Like if you told me that Spivak was pulling out, WCA is probably like one of the last guys I would thought is is live for this because he just fought like two weeks ago, you know? um and it was a great win but like also because it was a great win there's risk here right like that was a great rebound win his first knockout in a hot minute frankly coming off that loss to pavlovich like you know as you mentioned the ipote this is like he's assuming some risks i don't think he needs to here and obviously the reward will be great he'll get i don't i i haven't even look this up there can't be that many times if ever this might be the first time in the

history of the ufc that a heavyweight has fought five times in a calendar year because very few people have ever done it in general and mostly it's lighter weights so like he's he's assuming some risk here there is a payoff certainly but i don't know if like gaseyev i don't think gaseous are good so there is that at least going for him but flying the do Doha in, you know, four hours or whatever, like to suddenly get into a fist fight. That's just, man, that credit to him for taking it. Let's see how it works out for him. He will leave 2025 with an ass of momentum if he gets the win over Shmoogaziev.

And at heavyweight, I know he just lost to Pavlovich, but like, he's pretty close to a title fight if he wins this one on Saturday, which is, you know, pretty remarkable given where he was at just a couple of months ago. 100% and then he could probably get the Derek Lewis fight after this like he should probably just go ahead and call that one out because I think that makes a ton of sense and then your answer to everything is call out Derek Lewis yes

what should Islamakachev have done after you see 322 call out Derek Lewis I mean how hilarious would that of bed and though it would have been it would have been trying like you can't there's literally like no like if you just call out Derek Lewis no matter what your weight class is like it's a fine call out and you will not get raked over the coals for it but

Yeah, what a year it has been for Waldo Cortez-A Costa, especially if he gets this win. Early odds. What are they? Early odds. Would you care to take a guess? Waldo's a slight favorite. Waldo is a slight favorite. Looking like at the offshores around a minus 145, I've not been able to confirm it with our friends at Fandul yet.

But look around minus 145, come back on Gassiav plus 125. And that tracks to me. I think WCA is a much more proven better fighter. The circumstances are he is, you know, he just came off a fight, so he's not totally out of shape. But in general, fighters post-fight take a little bit of time to ease off. He did not. You know, he got poked in the eye. And he's flying across the country in three days.

You know, I think under normal circumstances, he'd probably be like a minus 220, something like that. Given the circumstances, they're probably checking him back. little bit and that that tracks to me yeah he took like two days off from training i interviewed him like two day three days after the fight i believe it was that tuesday and he had just finished training and he's just been training nonstop ever since that fight ended so but there's a difference between fight camp training and training oh yeah for sure so you know like i'm sure he throttled back a bit and now he's got to gear up because there's a fist fight happening in three days time so um i think it makes sense i i would put him as a favorite i think this line is is appropriate

it um honestly i was pretty interested in the spivak gasea fight i am equally i'm i'm bummed one because you're getting fantasy points and that i don't love that uh or potentially getting fantasy points he hasn't won yet and two i had a bet on spivac as an underdog i i really like the price there and so bummed on that but yeah interesting little thing to happen for katar yeah it's been a hell of a year for waldo he because i interviewed him right after the last fight with delajja and, you know, he revealed when he was talking to DC in this post fight about, like, some personal stuff he was going through heading into the Pavlovich fight. And he kind of laid out exactly what happened. And I was like, holy shit, dude.

So his wife was pregnant with their latest child. And while he was, like, preparing for the fight, she went into labor, like, super early. So they had a premature baby that was, like, hanging on for dear life during that fight week. So it's kind of dealing with all that and then getting ready to fight a guy like Sergei Pavlovich, pretty wild stuff. But luckily, the wife is good. The baby is good. I believe now the baby's probably home from the hospital or at least very close to it. But it was like nine, ten weeks pre.

It was like super premature, several weeks, like pretty scary stuff. And to have to get ready to fight a dangerous guy like Pavlovich while you're sort of dealing with that mentally is pretty wild. So he goes out there, wins this fight, man. He's going to get some fighter of the year votes. Five fights in a year. I mean, he ain't going to win it, but he's at least probably going to be in the honorable mention category with the win here. Maybe. I mean, there are just so many things.

Like, I think we should, that is one of the topics I would love to talk about today, even though it's not settled, is who is the fighter of the year this year? because I think it's a two-man race, and one of them being Islam Makachev, the other being Marab de Velas Philly. And I don't, if Maraub loses, I think Islam's going to walk away with it. If Marab, assuming Marab wins in December, very competitive.

I don't think WCA will probably get any votes. But what he will get, Mike Heck, he will almost certainly earn a all-violence team, you know, whether it's first, second or third, we'll see. But five fights in a year is that's usually just good enough to make to the all violence squad. And, uh, you know, he's he's got, I think two knockouts this year, right? Um, Span and, uh, Delijah, if he gets a third, he's probably your first team all violence guy, frankly.

Um, but even just competing is going to get him, you know, what I would consider the greatest honor in the sport, frankly. If you have made, uh, MMA fighting all violence team, I mean, that's like an all that's an all star team. pro team you know that's what we that's what you hope aspire to achieve in the sport yes uh super chap from steve jed how do you deal with that Atlanta traffic uh I don't um so I mean I have a couple answers to this the first is Atlanta does have horrible traffic it's not as bad as LA or New York I would say I've been in both I think both of those are worse Atlanta traffic is really really terrible uh for context for those of you who have never driven here uh I used to before moving to this full time, I worked for a tech company about five miles away from

my house. And the morning commute to that was 45 minutes. The commute after work back home was on a really good day, an hour, but usually 90 minutes to go five miles. It's awful. It's terrible, but you acclimate to it pretty quickly. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I listen to a lot of podcasts. and books on tape and so I tried to like be productive or I would just try to not drive during peak hours but now I work remote and I am I I am never driving during traffic hours unless I absolutely have to because the city's a nightmare. So best if you are dealing with your own traffic issues, uh, books on tape and the MMA fighting podcast network. It's great podcast network. That's that's my recommendation to you. It's terrific. Uh, mysterious MR.

MRJ, excuse me, can you wax poetically on Bexat and Toporia because I feel like people aren't talking about it enough. Yes, good prelim fight, Bexat, Almacan versus Alexandria Taporia, who's making his second UFC appearance. This is, this could be really good. I just, like, I'm super curious about this fight because I don't, like, Teporea is, is good. He's got the tools and everything, but obviously he's been spending. the majority of his last five years or so probably longer for being honest maybe like the past decade really just sort of getting ilia to where he's at now because both of those guys you know they support each other and if one guy has a fight booked the other one is you know solely focused

on the brother's camp and vice versa but he's fighting bexat uh excuse me bexat alman who is really good man he just runs over brad ketona and then his first fight in the ufcc he took took it on short notice against Umar and Magam Adoff and kind of jot him real quick in that fight. Unfortunately for him, the fight went very umari after that. He then did nothing after that. But yes, he did. He did have a moment, which was fun. A very quick moment within the first like 30 seconds of the fight. Uh, but yeah, this is a good one. Nice under the radar scrap in the bantamite division shed. It is. I kind of think backside's going to win. Um, I am deeply unsold on the other Toporia brother.

I guess we'll see. You know, like this would be a good thing to be like, oh, I should at least take him somewhat seriously. But I mean,

historically brothers in the sport aren't good. Like, they're fine. But there's the history of MMA has, there's a good brother and a bad brother. And really like, honestly,

the Diaz brothers are basically the only kind of counter to that where they were both very, very good. because like think of every other pair of brothers they're all like one brother's just much better than the other brother and even even giving that obviously Alexander could still be decent right because even if even if ilia is much better than him ilia is one of the best fires in the world so you could still be good but like dan and jim miller shogun and ninja hooah right like that one of these is just clearly better and it feels to me that Alexander is not to to a that level but we'll get to find out um i also get to learn a little bit more of begs that because again he jawed umar then got ran over and he ran over brad catona and that's a good win you got you got to respect brad catona he's sort of the definition of like a competent journeyman just like a professional fighter and he killed him but i don't know what to make of that so

i love fights like these i get to learn things in this fight and it probably will be fun based on how they fight though i can't be certain of that yeah i think we're going to get some really fun scrambles in that fight the striking could get real fun i'm looking forward to that deporia is a slight favorite which i was kind of surprised by but also mike i looked it up please this will be the second time a heavyweight has competed five times in the uc in a calendar year care to take a guess at the first person to do it no i never would have come up with this in a million years i never would have come up with it god uh uh Derek Lewis.

That's just the most... Nope. Honestly, that would have been my guess. Greg Hardy, five times in 2019. Never would have thought of that. Oh, okay. So the second time ever, heavy weights competed five times in a calendar year.

Great style right there. Only things you find here at MAPFIN.com's podcast network. Chase, thank you. Should I expect all numbered car... numbered cards to feel as special as 322 did in person or was it a combination of the card in venue it truly was one of the best live sporting events i have ever been to so yes chase was at ufc 322 got to experience at all okay explain uh i mean 322 was an exceptional card madison square garden is the mecca it is an exceptional venue i mean shit that that that card

would have been better to attend than most of the other UFC, you know, MSG cards. You know, I think MSG will always be, I would rather go to a card in MSG have never been than, you know, like generic other venue. It's just a better venue. It will feel bigger. That fight card itself also just you got the, maybe, I'm not 100% sure. I could never confirm this. Maybe the first time was number one, number two pound for pound women's.

fight in the history of the sport and a guy in and the main event as another champ champ fight like the only time in history there have been two functional champ champ fights in a card that's a very special card in a very special atmosphere uh i would not say going to events that that should be the goal you would like things to live up to that expectation but don't expect it because there aren't many events that will do that for you uh i've been to a lot of EEOC events at this point, it's always a pretty good live show. I do think they have a pretty solid floor for attending a live event, but I'm certain the ceiling of that event is much higher than most others. Yeah. And it's always fun when the vibes are very high for an event. Like,

everyone just walks in, excited and ready to go. I don't think we've gotten like a ton of that this year. We've had some, obviously. I think like 314 was one of those events. And I think the international fight week card, even though it was sort of lacking compared to others, there was still a lot of high vibes with Tuporia and Charles Olivera and some of the other fights that were on that card. So yeah, I think it was just like a great combination of things making that feel bigger. And who knows, maybe like the first few will, we'll feel that way. But it's pretty wild that we haven't heard a single thing about it. So hopefully we get some news soon. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough.

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Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's O-D-O-O-O-com. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Roscoe Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix Colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser, reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. let's go to some other big news of the week both corpse thoughts on jake paul versus anthony joshua so it is

official uh december 19th miami florida netflix this fight is a go the press conference is tomorrow i'll actually be there i'm flying out like super early tomorrow morning and i'm going to go check that out i will not be at the fights i think hose is going to go but i will be at the press conference tomorrow so hopefully they announced more fights and we see what else is on this card we'll see if anderson silver chris wideman gets bumped over i'm not really sure but yeah jake paul doing the thing jed a lot of people didn't see this one coming there were reports i was told that it wasn't a done deal there were multiple names in the mix i know nekisa sort of revealed those names uh terence crawford was one of those names uh there's a couple others but i know that there are a lot of people who said

yes to this, and then in the end, this was the choice of Jake to take the Anthony Joshua fight. So now that you see a poster and that we'll have a press conference tomorrow, they will go face to face, all of that, your reaction to this fight being made. I have two primary thoughts. The first is I won't actually believe this fight's happening until they touch gloves. When they touch gloves in the ring, I'll be like, okay, because it's happening. But there's some space between now and whatever, mid-December. So I will I'll believe this when I see it That being said

I've thought about it a lot I actually think this makes sense I think I mean I think for anybody I have various criticisms of Francis Inganu It seems incredibly stupid to me That he would have turned this down if offered Like this, it's the biggest fight he could hope to aspire to

And so like his response I don't actually know if he was offered it, frankly. I know, you know, people have said and sort of both sides have intimated that that was maybe on offer, but I don't know that we've confirmed that that was like he was a genuine player in this mix. But assuming he is, Francis turning it down for the reasons he said so is like, you're kind of sniffing your own farts, my guy. Like, it's disrespectful.

Dude, this is the fight game. It doesn't. you ain't you ain't shit you know like I no disrespect to you the MMA fighter this is a fine boxing fight for you to take and a huge event for you to have attempted to take so I'm turning that down is dumb Anthony Joshua is not an idiot Anthony Joshua's like yeah I boxed Francis and Ghanu that was dope I made a lot of money and one of the easiest nights of my life I could do that again uh Francis and Gano I'm sorry Anthony Joshua totally makes sense from his standpoint I think think it makes sense from Jake's standpoint as well because the truth of the Jake Paul experiment and I don't know if Jake is delusional and so he doesn't know this truth but I suspect he does or somebody involved is aware of this Mike do you know what Jake Paul is very very simply do you know what Jake Paul is as a boxer he's a prize fighter no no no no no, no, no, what he is.

He is a hog being fattened up for slaughter because he's not good at boxing. Like, he's not bad. I'm not here to trash him as a boxer. Considering when he started, he's fine. Like, he is exactly the level I would imagine a decently athletic person with all the resources in the world and a genuine passion for the sport to get to, which is, he's probably not even a club level fighter like they're just a million dudes of similar age and experience level who would tune that man up Tommy Fury beat him and Tommy Fury isn't very good you know like these are

that's who Jake Paul is but but he is a hog for slaughter and you fatten him up and he has been being fattened up on the victories over small old MMA fighters but at some point the pig has to go to the fair and so this is that except for it's the smartest way to do it because once you slaughter the hog the hog slaughtered now you just make a bacon right once jake goes that that's the end of it there's nothing there's no other juice to squeeze out of him except now there will be because no one will begrudge him this he will get to say i dared to be great after he gets knocked out he'll lose some brain cells that'll suck for him but like i've been knocked out it's not fun it's not the worst thing in the world and everybody will understand it it's an

explicable loss losing to tommy fury kind of sucked because everyone's like tommy fury sort of blows and you lost to him but he moved past it he loses this everyone's like yeah anthony joshua is bigger stronger and a much better box than you of course you lost and so it's fine they can then slaughter him again later. He can, you know, go back to the drawing board of beating MMA fighters, Horri Mosvital, Therntill, whatever it is, and then do this again with somebody like a Terrence Crawford to Canelo Alvarez. And so, yeah, like this is going to be worse for his health.

He's going to get knocked out, probably brutally. But he'll most likely be okay, you know, knock on what, I don't want serious harm to befall him. And everybody will leave that being like, man, credit to Jake Paul for putting his money where his mouth is and taking that fight and then he can go back to running his grift i think this makes a ton of sense honestly i mean this could go so many different ways like maybe there's a part of him that's just like yeah i'd rather just promote the women and just not fight anymore so like if he wanted to just be done after this fight like it's not a bad thing to do i don't think he will be but

that's the thing i don't think this is the fight he would take if he wanted to be done because it's such an easily explainable loss. Like the fight you do that is like, okay, I take the Terrence Crawford or Canelo, the like, I'm going to be a world champion thing. It's like, yeah, you're not. Nobody act like credibly believes that. But that's a tougher sell when you lose to like,

like the poster just looks good. The poster is just like, oh, yeah. Anthony Joshua looks real good getting off the bus. He's going to tower over Jake. And he's going to send him to the shadow realm. that to me feels like the exit strategy you take when you still have, you know, juice to squeeze, when you still want to continue this on. Because come Sunday after, everyone's like, that's what we expected.

Good on Jake Paul. He actually went in there and fought somebody. It went poorly, but he did it. And so he's going to, he will lose the fight, but he will gain credibility in the loss. What a wacky combat sports weekend that is going to be because we have. We have that card on the Friday. And then the next day is that crazy-ass misfits card in Dubai. And that's going to be a shit show, too, with Dan is fighting on it and Tony Ferguson's fighting on it.

And other people are fighting on it. It's just, yeah, it's got to be one of the weird weekends because the UFC will be done for the year. So pretty wild. Very, very strange thing. Here you remember that hor, Gucci, Olin Beckoff has been elevated main card status from their pre-year-old. of them relegation can m a fighter either confirm or deny i can also i could officially confirm this because it's confirmed it's on the website and i got the email with like the bout order uh it is opening the main card so uh cooler heads wiser heads have prevailed overall speaking of a man

you just mentioned jed mishu you mentioned francis and ganu and he his name is in the news and it comes off the heels of dana white being on a podcast with comedian andrew Schultz. Danger Mouse asked, what do you guys think about Dana's alleged scuffle with Francis? Why are we only finding out about it now? Wouldn't he have used this before? So if you guys missed this, he was on Andrew Schultz's podcast called Flagrant. And he has asked about Francis and Ghanu saying that him versus John Jones at the White House would be the biggest fight of all time. Dana has been kind of shrugging off Francis saying that he doesn't like him. And he's been sort of teasing that something happened in the past. And then he opened up. And this is

what he said uh quote so when you're an athlete that's signed by the ufc you get full access to the performance institute you can eat there for free everything's free and do all this stuff this guy was effing living there he just fought and he comes up to my office he's in the hallway hanging out and i said come on in what's going on he was pissed off he didn't get a $50,000 bonus in his last fight they didn't get a bonus of the night i said francis you didn't get it for this that reason and he's in my office and he's arguing with me i'm like this guy got this this guy got that and this is why the conversation's over and i'm starting to leave and he grabs me by my shirt and pushes me back into my office and i said dude get your effing hands off me i could see in

this guy's face and in his eyes and the way he's acting who this guy really effing is he continues my guy hunter campbell they were talking about something it might have been that same thing about the bonus and when hunter started to walk away francis grabbed him by the effing back of his collar and effing pulled him back and said we're not done talking yet this guy's not a good effing guy he's a bad guy so and apparently there's there's a little bit more to the story as well talking about uh ufc 220 how he demanded uh before the fight in boston that he wanted a a private jet back to paris uh after the fight and steep ended up beating him and dana basically saying like he wanted to cut him francis is a bad guy and he actually

thinks like this is the quote that kind of stood out as well now he's over and he's done to deal with pfl in saudi arabia now he's asking to fight me and john jones need to fight i'm sure they wish they never effing signed him i don't have to hear one word from any of those guys over there to know because i know i've dealt with him and i know who he really is so a lot to unpack from dana white we've heard some others chime in as well but i'm not even going to talk about that here. We have not heard from Francis just yet or his management team or anything from all accounts, at least anything that I've seen. But what was your reaction to this, especially like hearing back everything that Dana had to say?

My first and always reaction is I do not take this at face value. Dana is an unreliable narrator. He, uh, this could be true. It also could not be true. Um, it the number of times dana white has outright told things that are fabrications to the media to anybody is it's almost too many to count um you know so like you just can't trust the like dana's word is not bond right it's not like oh this definitely happened that being said i can believe it um i i think one of the there are a couple rules that everybody in my estimation should have one is don't believe in may fighters or heroes none of them are um all of my favorite fighters ever i have been problematic bad people because this is mostly a sport for broken humans

right like this is a combat sport uh while i think dana uses the line too often and it is not a stance he should have as the promoter of the largest combat sports organization in the world there's to the fact that like these people are all lunatics. And so like, yeah, I, it is incredibly believable to me that a man who had to overcome what he had to overcome to get to this stage in life is perhaps not the most like grounded, rational person. Because Francis and Ghana who suffered a life, I'll never have to suffer. And I am thankful that I do. don't. But like, it's absolutely believable to me that the type of person who is able to overcome those things, you know, might have some anger issues, might have some problems in

various ways. So I can believe this happened. I will not say that it happened because Dana said it happened. Um, and so that's just sort of like, I don't know what to make of it, right? Like, it'd be nice to get Francis's side of the story and maybe just weighing those two. we could come to some sort of a The truth is in the middle Maybe Dana, you know, maybe Francis did touch him, but he didn't grab him.

You know, he just did the like, hey, stop. We're talking. I don't know. But I don't put any stock into this because it's aggressively hearsay from a unreliable narrator about a person he clearly doesn't like the most in general

and has a grudge against. So like, you can't take it at face value. you even if I can totally believe it's possible yeah I mean it's it's pretty while they just came right out and said that um it is kind of noticeable honestly that francis has waited this long and has not said anything anywhere like I don't not on social media I don't think uh I honestly feel like this is one of those things you don't talk about just just let it go I you just the this feels like a thing you ignore until specifically asked about it

okay you're certainly going to be asked you're just giving it more credence to talk about it and then it's then it becomes this like he said she said in the media again with no ability to prove this there's unless you know dana has security cams from the PI or whatever there's no way to prove either end of it and so i think the again as with the isaac dolgarian and most things in life people really underrate the benefit of just shutting that up is a super super good policy in a lot of respects and i think this is probably better if he doesn't yeah a good no sell here would be i don't know i don't know we'll see i'm sure we'll hear more about this but at some point he will come out and address it um but yeah it was a really weird thing like that honestly my

biggest takeaway because immediately i was like i don't know if this is true or not. I have no way to know if this is true or not. I cannot trust that Dana is telling me the truth here. I don't think anyone should believe this because Dana said it. Um, but I was like, it is not that like, it should have come out sooner. It's just like, it's really weird that it came out now. Like, why is this? It's out of nowhere almost. It's very curious. It's a very odd thing. Yeah. We'll see what happens. I mean, yeah. That was, that was my thing. I was like, why, this is kind of weird. This is kind of weird.

So we're going to combo some questions here. How crazy is it that we left UFC 322 and no fights announced for Paramount? The rumored first card is UFC 324, January 24th at T-Mobile. And I guess the other question is from this person that I'm not going to read. Why does it feel so hard to book Ilya to Poria? So perhaps, you know, Ilya is in Qatar with his brother. So perhaps maybe they'll all get into a room and try to hash this thing out. But why do you think we don't have a fight announced yet?

Why do you think we don't have a main event where we're like two months away here and nothing? Absolutely nothing. It's just pretty great. I think the only fight that has been like confirmed is Damon was first to report earlier this week. Modestis Bukoskis versus Nikita Krylov. I think he's like the only fight that is like. set for that card right now so and this isn't a UFC announcement so why do you think they haven't announced anything yet i've no idea um it makes zero sense to me that we are very close

and that there's nothing i have a theory on the main event i it's entirely speculation like there's there's not even a kernel of i heard something my theory on the main event and to the follow-up of why is ilias so hard to book is that all of this is iliator's fault um because my theory and maybe it's because i'm like a little bit of an iliot toporia hater not a not a hater of the fighter but a hater of who he is as a person um which i guess is worse but like if i can see the world and the only really thing that makes sense to me is that the ufc wants Ilya to headline their first numbered event of Paramount, because that makes sense. And Ilya doesn't want to do whatever the UFC wants to do, whether it's Patty Pimbled,

whether it's Justin Gachy, whether it's Armand, Surukian, or Dan Hooker. He doesn't want to do it because he wants to fight Islam Makachev, and because he kind of swung, you know, swung it around and got to just move up and challenge for the lightweight belt. again nobody remembers this i feel like i'm the only person who remembers this he didn't need to do like he did not have an undeniable he's got to go up to lightweight thing there were numerous featherweight contenders but he was like i kind of want to go up and try this and everyone just got behind it and so he's riding high and feeling himself and trying to swing the hammer again

And the U.S. is like, no, bro, you're not going to fight as Lamakachev. He shouldn't, by the way. That would be silly. And he, that is what this feels like is he is playing hardball for whatever reason. And they don't, so they're at a bit of an impasse trying to get this over the line. And because otherwise, I don't, truly don't understand what could be holding this up other than they can't lock in Ilya because I know Patty Pimble, would sign to sign for that fight instantly. Like, the moment the paperwork comes across his desk, Patty's in.

Same for Justin Gagee, probably. So, like, it has to be an Ilya problem unless, and I don't believe this, because the only other answer is that the UFC was waiting for 322, and then they're going to see if they do want to make Ilya versus Makachev. I don't believe that's true because it's so stupid. It would be a stupid fight to put together. And they would have known it would be a stupid fight heading into 322, unless they're waiting just to see if Islam won, like, one. And if he lost, okay, then we can put that together.

But if he loses, you still can't put that together for January. Islam's not going to come off a loss, cut the weight and fight in January. So this just feels like it's nearly a problem. And there are rumors that he's got stuff going on in his personal life. So perhaps that's playing into it. I don't know. but the only thing that makes sense is Ilya is the holdup and none of the reasons that he's the holdup

feel like they're happy reasons in my head you could be right I mean my initial thought is Ili is playing hardball and I don't know if it's because you know like Ilya says a lot of things is like I'm not going to fight this guy I'm not going to fight this guy and then ends up fighting it fighting him like the deal ends up getting done so I mean I think I'llie's just trying to sort of buck the trend and be like, hey, you know, I made this amount of money for

international flight week. If you want me to headline your first event on this new network, like, I want this. And I don't know if this is true or not, but that would be my guess. I think they just pay him, though. I don't know, maybe unless he's asking for like John Jones money, but if that's the case, then they would have booked something else. Yeah, but maybe they're still working on it. And perhaps maybe they do, I don't know, they can't get them on board.

Like, we'll know, we'll know where the relationship stands. and relatively soon. Here's why I don't think it's something like that. I think Dana would have just come out and trashed him already. Dana would have been like, yeah, man, like Ilya wants X, Y, and Z.

Like, he wants Anderson Silva money. And so I don't, like, I think I'llia is, I don't think it's money. I think Ilya wants a fight that he can't get. Like, that is, that's my theory. That is based on nothing but wildly circumstantial evidence.

But, like, I don't, it feels like it has to be an Ilya problem. And I just, just book the fight, man. I don't even care who it's against. It's all, we're almost in December. Why don't we know what the main event is? Let's solve this problem immediately. If they can't get I'llia on track. And I've talked to, like, some people who, who don't, like, fully know, but are kind of like,

obviously they, they know somewhat of what's going on with the UFC and, like, things that doesn't seem like he's going to fight in January. I mean, I don't know. Like, again, these are just like, you know, there are other rumored things that I've heard that I've reached out about that, you know, kind of off the record. But at this point, I just don't know. So if, if it's not really, I don't know who the hell it is. What are they going to do?

Hamza. I mean, two months? I don't know. I mean, he is in guitar right now. A middle weight, he could do it. And so like, and that's like it's just sort of like Alex is kind of always the answer because he just has been Captain Save a fight card or whatever. But like and that would be plenty of time for Alex to then fight at the White House, which is something very clearly wants to do. But there's not like a lot of light heavyweights that I'm interested in Alex.

Are they going to do Algey three? Are they going to do Ulberg? They would do allberg probably. Yeah, but that's like, but like that's tough. My, if it's not, I have to guess it's Hamzat and it's, you know, Hamzat versus Imov because that fight is made. We know that's happening. So you just say, all right, we're doing that in January. Okay.

That card's no longer playing for California, I think, right? Yeah, it looks like Vegas now. Vegas. So they can get it to Vegas. And so I guess that that's the other answer. But like, I'm tired of talking about this. Just book us something. It's insane that we don't have a main event.

And whoever's fault it is, stop doing the problem and book the fight. Like, everyone in their mom believes it should be Ilya and Patty or that maybe not believes that it should be, believes that that's like the likely thing. So just book that. And we can start talking about it and think about it. And that fight can happen. Or don't and book something because we need to have this. I'm tired of this.

Would it be, would, would, would, would, would, how would fans react? if they did Patty versus Gaichi for the interim belt as the main event. I think they'd lose their minds. I believe that if that happened, it would be one of the only things

that would actually get the public to turn on Ilya unless he was like, I blew my knee out and that's why this is happening. If it's just like, Ilya, it's hard to book. Ilya wants to fight Islam. Ilya won't do whatever. people will be like dude you are not

God's gift to the universe fist fight a guy I don't think people would be on board for that interim title fight at all I think that would be about the one of the worst ideas

to start your new business partnership with Paramount would be that not that Paramount frankly can say shit about it they pay a lot of money they don't they're going to take what's given but that would be a really rough start to this thing. I don't think the UFC would even do it. Even if that's what they had to do it lightweight,

I think they'd be like, that's the co-main event to Hamzot or something because it's so unsellable. Do they try to rush Aspinall and gone back? Maybe that. I could buy that too. Yeah, that could track for me. Maybe Kayla in there.

I don't know. I don't think you can rush Kayla at this point. Yeah, I don't know what they're going to do. It's just too short term for her. that takes her a lifetime to get to 135. I would say by next week, we're going to have an answer. Like,

maybe we won't have it this week. I would have thought we'd had an answer by Tuesday at the latest. Yeah. Maybe we'll get one tomorrow. Maybe Danil will do the, hey, guys, check it out Friday thing. But it is,

it's starting to feel 300. Where it was like, dude, 300's not far away and we still don't have anything. What's going on? Yeah. It's crazy. Lazy bed. J.D.M.'s coach took to subradio and claimed they didn't lose due to game plan,

but because Jack didn't move his feet is the time for him to find an actual camp with champ level coaching so uh i believe you have rewatched this fight several times i i didn't watch it several times i did watch it on monday morning i rewatched it and i came away much more impressed that i was watching it live just you know i especially like after hearing what like luke thomas had to say about the fight i went and rewatched it and i actually rewatched the the hamzot ddp fight as well uh but you've watch it a bunch of times what did you think of jdm's coach saying i wouldn't because he essentially like i wouldn't we wouldn't change the game plan we would just execute it better and then

it was jack didn't move his feet is that are you surprised to read that to hear that or is that kind uh perhaps maybe what you saw in that uh it's not what i saw it's hard to know i'm not in the camp so i don't know what the game plan is i have a theory on what the game plan is i have a theory on what the game plan is and I don't even necessarily think change in the game plan would help. Here's my theory, Mike. I wrote about this it's actually going to come out in like an hour or two on the

website for a mailback column. After rewatching that fight several times and in fact, rewatching that fight in comparison to the Hamzaa DDP fight, which was sort of how a question was framed. I think people every fighter who came out and was like Jack sucks,

I think they're wildly incorrect. I think they've entirely missed the mark of that fight. He says, I watched that fight several times. My takeaway was not at any point in time that Jack Della Madelaine is bad. Jack was doing a lot of things. None of them worked because Islam had all the answers for them, right? It's not like against the DDP Hamzat, DDP just sort of like, Hamzok got into position and DDP just sort of stayed there. just held on that's not what happened jack was trying to use octopus gets up get ups and ziz and

two on one hand grips and he was trying to move and islam just shut it all down and so my read after a couple of watches is i think what they did and i could be entirely wrong i think you only have so much time to prepare for a fight mike right like there's only x amount of hours in the day i think they looked at it and made what i would actually say is a reasonable gambit of jack's not a very good defensive wrestler he never has been um he mainly stopped some ball take downs because ball didn't shoot a lot and because he was keyed in on two on hand two on one hand fights and ball has a limited number of finishes but so they looked at it and we're like okay if we spent a ton of time working defensive wrestling in camp we're not gonna the the gap is too big

we're just not going to get there so instead let's work on our bottom position work let's jack is already has some natural inclination for scrambling from the bottom, creating space, moving, grappling. Like he has some instincts in that realm. We've already seen it. So it'll be easier for us to work on that, work specific instances, you know, bringing Craig Jones, work these various sequences that we think will help him get back to his feet, can see that some takedowns are going to happen, but we'll get up. And they've partly said that in the buildup, like, yeah, we know we're going to get taken down. We're going to get right back up.

So I think they put all their all their game plan points into that and it failed because Islam was just like, yeah, I have all the answers for what you're going to do. And so I don't think that's necessarily a bad game plan because I do not believe that working the defensive wrestling would have helped. Islam has too diverse of a range of finishes to his takedowns. But this is he just can't win this fight. I don't think there's anything they can do to make him win this fight after it. And that's not because Jack Della Madalena sucks or isn't good. good. He is a justified welterweight champion of the world.

This is a Machchev is probably one of the best fighters I've ever seen. Full stop. One of the best fighters who has ever competed. Now, one of the greatest, he hasn't accomplished that level yet, though he is climbing into that mix.

One of the best fighters of all time. And Jack Delamadalina isn't. And my biggest takeaway leaving that fight is I think people still underestimate how good is the Makachiv is. And I've got some theories why this is one of the best fighters ever competed in the sport. But what are those theories? My primary theory is that he has had an unfortunate career in that, one, he was always in the shadow of Habib.

Because he was, he was always the lesser of the guys. He was the guy who was supposed to take the mantle after Habib took it. But Habib was the vanguard of the Dagestani movement. You know, Habib will forever sort of cast a shadow over him even now because he is a mythical fighter in a way that Islam isn't. And so that kind of put him behind. And then his career arc was a little tougher. He had the loss.

Then people sort of forgot about it. He couldn't get the biggest fights because nobody would fight his ass. And then when he got those big fights, he ran over Charles Olivera. And everybody, nobody talks about the fact that he demolished. Charles Olivera who I was there you were there Mike at the time people were starting to be like is Charles olivera the greatest lightweight of all time which was insane was an insane thing but people were doing it and he slaughtered his ass and nobody talks about that fight nobody talks about him slaughtering charles olivera because immediately afterwards he fought alexander volkovsky and i think that is the

single biggest reason that people underestimate islamakov everybody takes the exact wrong lesson from that fight. I was convinced of it at the time. I'm more convinced of it than I've ever been. People look at that fire and are like, man, Volk's great. And Volk is great. Volk is an all-time great. You should believe that. That is the worst Islam Akachev that's maybe ever been and he still won four or five rounds. He won every phase of the game. He lost the fifth round because he gassed. But he won the striking. He won the grappling. And because certain people who I won't name were so committed to supporting Volcanovsky the person that became a narrative that he won this fight.

He didn't win that fight at all. Watch it again. It is much closer to 4-1 Islam than it is to 3-2 Volk. But because Volkanovsky was so beloved and there was this cult built around it, well, Islam, Islam, the guy who was perennially second fiddle, this kind of cast in the bad guy role. And then the rematch happens at short notice.

he slaughters Volk and everyone's like oh short notice against the featherweight that's not important who cares about that and then he fights dust and poria one of the most beloved figures of his generation so he's again in the bad guy role and then he's finally supposed to be the heroish against armand surukian and hanato morcano steps under short notice he slaughters him he is he is a victim of how his career is played out and that he has never he doesn't get to be the beloved islamakov one of the best fighters who has ever lived maybe now he will You know, maybe now he's got a thing. I don't think like none of the welterweight contenders are going to be beloved against him.

But even heading into this, the narrative was he's running from Ilya, which was insane. It was an insane narrative. But because Ilya is more beloved than him, he has just always been cast as a way that people respect his greatness, but don't understand it in what it truly is. He is a special fighter. He's the best fighter in the world. He's one of the like six best fighters I've ever seen. I'll tell you what. If he wants to ride any of the momentum that he may have gained from this fight,

he needs to stop calling out Kamara Usman and needs to fight somebody else. Because if he gets booked with Kabar Usman, whatever goodwill he had goes away, unfortunately. That 100% agree. I still kind of think that's likely to happen. But the fact that, like, people are only now, he seems destined to have one of those careers that we appreciate after the fact. to the extent of it. We all respect it.

Nobody disrespects him, but nobody loves him and appreciates him in the way that he probably deserves to be appreciated. That won't happen with Usman. As this week has gone on, Mike, we talked about this a little bit.

I know where you stand on it. I listen on to the next one. I'll watch him fight anyone. He's the best fight in the world. I have some vague passing interest in a Michael Morales fight. I actually think he beats Michael Morales comprehensively as I've gone back and watched them both a lot more that feels it would be interesting

because the size barrier is enormous yeah I actually think it's less interesting the things I think that Islam is honestly just a better strike than mic more so he could just win that fight that way um I the fight I want the fight I need the fight that I don't think will happen and I a lot of people will reflexively be opposed to because this is also a weird thing that's happened People I respect. Luke Thomas, a person I respect immensely. Nobody gives a shit about Shafkat anymore. I want to see those two dudes fight.

And it's incomprehensible to me that if you went back two years and we're like, Islamakshchev, Shafka, Rakmanov, Welterweight title. Everyone would be like, that's the best fight of all time. And now everyone's like, screw it. Shafka doesn't deserve it. He hasn't fought. He fought in December. He fought less than a year ago.

He didn't have to. He had a title fight. Give it to him. To me, if I'm in charge of it, Shavkat fights Islam, that fight rips. That fight's incredible. I'm super stoked on it. Camaro fights the winner of Balali and Gary. Then if Camaro wins, no issues with them getting a title fight.

And the winner of Balali and Machado Gary, if they beat Kamaro, absolutely locked in for it. And you just, you ride the wave, Michael Morales, call us protest, let those two cars crash into each other in a violent, exciting way. This is the easiest, cleanest way to handle well-to-weight. all of those fights are fights that I'm interested in and I really need to see is some fight Chavcott because that fight again a year and a half ago people would have lost their minds

about that fight being made and now everyone's like I don't know is Shafcott even that good I don't know it's so weird that Shafcott like has done nothing wrong but get hurt and everyone's like yeah kind of fuck that guy you know kind of fuck that guy

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audio system get no frills delivered shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express pass get your first year for 250 a month learn more at PC express.ca that kind of leads into the super chat for Mace Boogie assume rumors of Shotcott's retired in January are true I'll get to that in the second him versus Usman on the first paramount card number one contender morales versus gary if he gets past ball for next up jdm versus proches fight night main event early 2026 uh so i reached out to shopcott's team um oops yeah i reached out to shopcott's team on monday night and i was like hey you know what's going on with

shopcott how's he doing is he going to be back uh here's what i was told he's waiting quote he's waiting for a fight offer for end of February March slash March so hopefully soon let me tell you that timeline looks so perfect for islamakov because it's got to be February there's still enough and but that would be perfect you do it in February then he can fight with the White House if that's the thing they want to do I in the immediate post fight I was like I'd like to see it as I've thought about it more I don't think there's a fight in MMA including and it hurts my heart to say this, including DDP versus Yere Phrashka

or DDP versus RDR. I don't think there's a fight in May I want more than Islamakshed versus Shafkat Rakhanov. I don't know why people have just written Shafkat off entirely, but

like that fight, that fight's unbelievable. I think that's the fight that should happen. I'll take anything, it's Islamakshed. I'll watch the best fight in the world fight to anybody. It does not matter to me. but that is it's the number one fight I'd like to see in MMA

and it seems like it's lined up like can't happen if they book here's another part of it too like if they booked it who is mad about it if they book Islam versus Shavkat in February who is like

somebody got screwed over or passed over for their nobody's mad about it they're like okay maybe Michael Morales like Michael Morales just beat Sean Brady that's dope but it's not like Michael Morales has this unimpeachable

dude he didn't just beat Sean Brady that's great that's his good win he's got one good win the other wins are fine and Gilbert Burns is like okay

but Gilbert Burns ain't the same Gilbert Burns that's an awesome win but nobody like it's not egregious to pass him over it's not even really

passing him over just book that fight man that fight is everything that should happen it is the fight I want to see the most in him in May right now bar none

I mean I dude trust me I wouldn't hate that fight. I would not hate that fight. And I've come down to it that as long as it's not Usman, as long as Usman has to fight again to get a title shot, then I'm fine with it. I want Usman Shafkat. That's the fight I want. Like if they're not going to give Shafkat a title fight, you go ahead and do that. I'm, I want to see Morales Islam. I'm just so curious because he is just so damn big and athletic and all that. And I'm not saying Islam, like, the more I've like thought about maybe it was just like a little buyer's remorse i guess a little uh little just

this just happened kind of thing but i do think michael morales presents like really intriguing problems especially at 170 like jack's like a decent size walterweight but michael morales it's like a friggin light heavyweight in there it's just crazy like i shan brady couldn't get near him like he couldn't get anywhere near him so i'm like super curious how islam deals with someone that explosive and not big and that strong and that fast like I kind of want to see it and it doesn't hurt beats him in the striking if you can't touch him way I use is a way better striker I mean I want to see it I mean that's that is like I would be happy to watch it I give dude I am so convinced that everybody the sports gone crazy and we think think and everyone

be like oh that's fun and as the fight got closer I think everybody like I think everyone be like, oh, yeah, actually Shavkot versus Islam is incredible. Oh, it's a great fight. Like, I think it's a fight that people, because everyone just gave up on Shafkot for reasons I still, genuine, don't get it. I don't think people gave up on him. I think we just kind of have questions. He was super hurt for the Gary fight, super injured most of this year. He went through a pretty tough year with this family.

I think people just want to make sure, like, he's good. And then, like, the reminder, I guess. Again, somebody in the chat was. somebody in the chat, Mike, to prove my point was like, I don't remember Shavka Rock. I don't remember Shavka fights. How?

The dude fought. All he's done is finished dudes and then took a short notice fight against Eamachado Gary and won. It's the first time he's never finished a guy in 20 career fights or whatever. And he was very hurt for that fight. Yeah,

it was massively hurt, took a fight against a totally different stylistic opponent on short notice and won. And that's the only guy hasn't finished. If you don't remember Shavkot, it's because you've just, just memory hold him.

And the sport has seemed to do it. And this was the guy that everyone was in love with last year. Like last January, everyone was like that, that dude forever. We just, that's the fight I need. I will, until that fight doesn't happen until Islam or Shafka are booked, it's the only fight I'm calling for. I don't give a shit about the rest of it. He was, he was my number one welterweight until, I believe he's my number one

welterweight until JDM won the belt. Or, no, maybe I still have. Adam there. I don't know. He was my number one. Even when Bilal was champion, I still had Shafka. I had him over Leon for a good chunk of time. Like, yeah, someone's like Chavcott's injury prone. No, he got injured one time. He has been injured one time. And we all, I, I swear to God, he doesn't speak English. And that's it. Everyone's like, oh, I can't remember him saying anything post fight because he didn't speak English. And so F that dude. He's not in my memory every four months. I have TikTok attention span.

He's the dude. He's been the dude. Forever. Do it. We would have given an appendage to see these two guys fight 18 months ago. We're like, that's the fight. Can't wait to see that fight. Do it now. It's perfectly timed. Michael Morales-Colol's protest is an insane fight. That fight is so damn fun. Do that fight. And Kamaru takes on either Ball or Gary. It's perfect. It's all perfect. I did it for a UFC. Congratulations. Steal my idea. Run with it. I slightly disagree with you. Um, if they, obviously, if they book shop, I'm not going to be

upset about it. I want him in Usman. That's the fight I want. It answers all the questions for me. And I, the way I would book it right now is right now, Michael, like, if, if, if the decision was made now, it's Morales getting the title shot. However, if Ian Machado, Gary goes out there and just dominates belal i would give it to him and i would do morales pratches and i would do shafkaid usman and then i would do gary versus is i'm that's how i would do it i think morales is in the driver's seat i think dana sees a lot of value in him like he's seen how popular he is in ecuador potential new space for them to go to and dana put him over big on saturday so i think mike's in the driver's seat i mean again i if i had to bet they're going to go with usman but

I mean, I think after Saturday, more people are on my side of the, this is just egregious if he goes in and gets a title shot after beating Joaquin Buckley and then I do agree with that. I do agree with that. The energy pre-322 felt incredibly like we're moving towards this. I straight up, I think Islam, if that's a fight Islam wanted, he should have called for it post-fight. I know he didn't, he didn't interviews. I think that hurt him.

I think there's some more momentum to that had he done it. but I think it's unlikely. I'd say he's still probably the, like, favorite, but it's, you know, nobody's over 50% as to who's getting the next title fight at World Trade is my thought. The only way I think Usman would get it is if the UFC is in full scramble mode for January. And they're like, hey, Islam, we need you, bud. We need you to come in.

We'll give you Hussman, but you have to do it in January. We're not waiting. If you want that fight, do it in January. Otherwise, you're not fighting. him. It's the only way I can understand that the UFC making that fight and having it make any real sense right now. Although I'd still be a little upset. I would be a little more forgiving with the business side of things where it's like, all right, we rush this thing together. We had to do something to put on a big main event for this card. And Islam is a star.

Like he is, like the reception he got all week was, was unbelievable. So it was a great night for Islam Makachev. Let's continue on. Mike Bobo for Prez, over under one and a half weeks until we finally start getting some paramount card news i love my boy gaichi i want him versus ilia so badly i would love to see that fight um i i don't think that's happening i still i'm going to assume that it's ilia versus patty i think that fight's good a totally reasonable fight i support it i would watch gaichi fight ilia uh i know how that fight's going to go at this point maybe if gaichi was younger. And credit to Gaichi, he has done a way better job than I think most people would have imagined at staving off the Reaper. But I kind of don't need to see Ilya kill another old

guy. And that's what would happen in that fight. If Gaichi could be convinced, I would desperately like to see Gaichi fight. That is the fight I would really the most like to see for Gaichi. And Patty take Ilya. I don't think Gaichi will fight him or straight up. I don't think there's outside of an interim belt or a guaranteed title shot maybe i don't think he'd take that fight but god i'd love to see that fight that is you know of the fights that aren't like super meaningful i don't know that there's a fight that i'd like be more interested in than that that fight would rock uh okay tarrence shafcott is the armin of 170 already proved himself but injuries are being used against him both are big tests versus islam give him the shot

Mike chaos, Carlos, by the way, in my... Buddy, I kind of agree with that. He's not Armin. He's Habib. I lived through this. I lived through being like, Habib Nur Nargamatov is the best lightweight in the world. It was true for like four full years before he got a title fight because he had some injury

issues. That is absolutely true. Several people just straight up would not fight his ass. And he just got memory hold because other things were happening at lightweight. That's just what's happened. We're just like, okay, Shafka's probably the best Walter weight in the world. That might not be true with Islam up now.

But like prior to that, I would have confidented him and like Shafka is the best water weight in the world. And he got inopportunely injured at one point in time. And everyone's just like, okay, well, other things are happening. And I'm more interested in the shiny new object. And I, I'm not, nope. So it's the fight I most want in the MAA is a Zumberer shop got.

I think it's the best interdivisional fight that can be made in the sport right now. J. Ray B. Why the hell are we not doing J. Ellis versus Tony Ferguson? Well, that's a good question. Now, that's paramount worthy right there. That is paramount worthy. Let's see, what else?

Arnold Allen once again sent the internet into uproar by teasing a move to lightweight. Inside sources tell me this is a troll job. In your opinion, is he being factual or facetious? uh my guess i saw i saw what he did he commented on somebody's post i think on instagram where he's like i'm moving up to 155 it's too hard to make the cut i'm going to guess it's a troll job that's a man who has been injury prone arnold allen is a guy who was memory hold justifiably he actually fought once a year and you know very good fighter but the injury bug has been a huge setback to his career

Chavcott's been injured the one time, you know, that's, like, meaningful. And here we are. What else we got? What else we got? What else we got? She loves the gloves. I know she is in Qatar doing a great job. I don't know.

I asked Dilliat the presser if he will be fighting in January and he said it's 100% possible that he will. And that was in mid-October. So that was, uh, when was this? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's right. He did, uh, he did a presser for some partnership of some kind. Um, but we'll see.

We'll see. We're running out of time here. Like, we are running out of time. We got to figure this out. I still think it's the most likely answer, but I don't know why we're, I don't know why it's taken so long. I honestly don't. Uh, master of the universe. Mike and Jed, we're now towards the end of the.

year which fights stand out for you as fights of the year so many earlier fights are forgotten uh about so shine some light on some of your faves and standout performances so this is not going to be remotely a list i haven't i i go back and rewatch all the fights um and stuff when i'm doing these things um stuff that jumped out uh i don't think it'll win um Umar Marab That's one of those Like incredibly high level fights That's gonna be on my list

That'll make it It's not like the most thrilling But it's just the level is so high From both men And there's drama And a championship performance from Marab You know I think that's up there

Holland Rodriguez is the funniest fight of the year By far That's all I get's 100% making my list But that fights the fights both really fun and hilarious I recall Pory Holloway 3 being pretty good

That's not going to make my list though I don't know if it'll make a list I'm just going Josh Van and Brandon Royval Was that only three rounds though That was only three rounds That was really tough

That will be in my top three for sure Paul Hughes Usman It was pretty good PFL Very good fight. Trying to think what other ones. Let me pull up a list here.

So. Oh, honest to God. Legitimately might be. Martinetti vlogged in on contender series. Oh, yeah. That's what I do. Again, I, one of the two best or maybe just, I know you have your opinion. At worst, the second best contender series fight of all time.

The fight was incredible. The fight was so good that Dana White gave them like a 20K bonus on Contender Series and signed both dudes before. Literally before they did the end show. He's like, they're both going to the hospital. They're both in the UFC. That's how, like, that fight was the closest thing Contender Series has had to Forrest Griffin, Stefan Bonner sort of thing. So, like, that's 100% on my list. I don't know if it would be one, but it's up there.

yeah so i have a list of like i think i have like 12 or 13 right now uh that one is on there is on my short list right now uh roy ball versus van is up there uh ball jdm is up there that was a great yeah that was really fun fight yeah great fight uh nizim sadikov versus nicholas mota is certainly on that list uh i have a i have a soft spot soft spot right in here for yuri prohashka versus kalil roundtree it's just right in here oh no that's that's a fun one yeah good one. Marab Um, Marab Umar is up there as well. Uh, Chris Duncan versus Batush Rebechke is up there as well. Because we had that back to back heaters with, uh, Rievich and Brenner and then we went right into. Yeah. Reavich and Brenner was really good. And

what made me really happy about that is everyone knew that that was going to be very good. It was better. When a fight is like, okay, we know that it's like, okay, circle it. this is the one and then it's like actually yeah what's the one it feels better uh that was a really good one that might that might make my list yeah usman hughes one is up there and then the last one i have in there because i don't know what to think of it comparatively to the others uh was diego lopez versus john silva because that fight oh yeah absolutely lunacy that fights yeah that's the fight was wild i think it might be it might be too short to make it yeah but i mean my list but it was really good having saturday saturday

Mota and that one on the list is going to be tough because Sadaikov Mota was pretty short too, but it was so friggin nuts that like it's hard to ignore it. Honestly, when you start making these lists or what I found, maybe. Yuri Jamal Hill was a great fight too. I had that. I have that somewhere as well. What I found when I start making these lists, they're usually a couple that just like those are in and then you're filling out the, like if you're doing a top five, it's like,

okay, here are the three best. and then the rest is sort of like a pick your flavor and so I'll do like okay I'm gonna throw in in Umar versus Maraub because that's just so good like it's so high level

and it's not as fun as some of these other ones but the it's so such a great showcase of mixed martial arts and so you know you'll have like here are the three and then here's the one that's just like really good maybe not the most fun it's really good and here's the one that's just like really fun and kind of wacky in my personal taste

like I am certain Kevin Holland Daniel Rodriguez is going to fill that slot for me this year of like this maybe isn't the best fight but it's the funniest fight and so I'm putting it in my list everybody might not I'm absolutely putting it in my list uh we'll go for a few more minutes uh Jed who's your favorite generally hated UFC fighter generally hated UFC fighter tell me some fighters who are generally hated because I feel like like mostly I hate fighters that people like for different reasons. Who, Mike, let's spitball. Who are some generally hated UFC fighters?

I'm Machado Gary, who I don't actually care for. I think he gets a bad rap in a lot of ways. I think he's coming around. I think people are starting. Yeah, I don't. Bala, I would say is certainly higher on that list. So no. Yeah, I would say Balaal is certainly on that list. I think, like, who are probably more on that list now than he ever has been, but

not not gonna watch i just watched an interview you did with the schmo and i was like oh that was like that was nice that was like a decent colby interview where like you didn't get into character he didn't say anything ridiculous uh i didn't mind that at all um i'm trying to like maybe you guys are better at this because you have a yeah if you guys have names throw out some names oh there we go patty patty pimblit i don't i don't love patty pimble i don't have any negative sentiment towards Patty Pimble. And Patty has grown on me because I frankly just respect

what he's accomplished and having proven me wrong. I don't think Sean Strickland counts as hated. I actually think most of the fan base like Sean Strickland. The fan base the UFC caters towards a loves him.

He might be the closest answer to this because like the truth is I'm mostly the fighters that I like are weirdos in general. And so most people like don't hate them. they either disdain them like they did with chikas duplice for a very long time or rineer de ritter

which they did until until suddenly everybody's like actually it's adorable i get to that adorable stage much quicker than people um but like i i shan strickland i can't quit him i don't like him and there are many things that i actively dislike about him but he fascinates me he's a very very interesting person in the sport i think I'll run down here. Chandler, Connor, Colby, John Jones. I don't like any of them. Ilya, Patti, Bo, Nickel, Uncle Iff, Strickland, Bryce Mitchell.

Actually, Uncle I have might be the answer. I really like Uncle I've. I don't like really like him because he's not interesting enough to super care about him. But I never disliked him. And I respected that I always thought he was very good. Giuliana Pena. No, I don't care for Juliana Pena. Uh, da-da-da-da-da, yeah, that's...

Uncle has probably a good answer there, though. People, because people do hate the shit out of that guy, and I kind of like him. I think Paddy's come a long way, honestly. I can't say I like Patty because there are people who like Patty, and I don't want to... I'm not going to stolen valor that fandom. Um, but Patty has absolutely turned the corner for me in a lot of ways. 100%. Um, Macy Barber.

No, I don't care. for her. I dislike her less than I used to, but I don't care for her. Yeah. Angolaev's a really good pick. I think Uncle I have actually might be the answer. I kind of like him. All right. But like, mostly

I dislike fighters that people really like. So, like, I think I'm the only person in the world who hates Ilya and I've come to hate him. Not as a fighter. I think he's, I love him as a fighter. It's one of my favorite fighters to watch.

I everything else about it I'm not into uh asked grok for some fighter of fight of the year belal mohammed versus i'ma mitchado gary ufc fight night guitar november 2025 yeah hamid defeats gary actually that could be good wrestling overwhelmed the rising irish star and a ranked thriller but then belal's like i'm just going to out strike them i don't believe that's true that's my contention but i'm uh like i'm really looking forward to this week and we haven't really talked about it a lot and we'll have a preview show you won't be on it because you're doing other things tomorrow but we'll talk about guitar tomorrow obvious in the preview show um i really like this card and it makes sense it's their first time in guitar katar katar i'm sure

is paying them a bazillion dollars um but i really like this main card my biggest quibble with the card is that that fight is three rounds instead of five not only does i think do i think that it really changes the possible outcome of that fight um you know those two dudes are potentially fighting for a title shot like that should be five but i really like that fight i think it's perfect matchmaking let me let me throw a fight out for you that we haven't talked about that i haven't seen any of you talk about and that you're going to say do you what do you think i'm going to say jacker bansom versus mc de beckle by no that fight's incredible because my believe is that it's the weirdest fight in the history of sport oh it could be maybe not in the

history of sport but the weirdest fight this year by a country mile mickdeback or by who at once fought at welterweight but it's been a lightweight now taking on lifetime middle weight jaccar manson in a welterweight contest my great hope you weren't on our work call yesterday we had a meeting and i'd said that i think you said this yesterday my greatest hope is that tomorrow at way ends or tonight at way ends whenever they're doing it all by is the guy who blows weight Jack Hermanson makes it. I think it'll be the funniest thing that's happened this year. If all by misses the welterway limit,

Hermanson makes it, it'll be seeds. I don't think that'll happen, but it would be very funny. No. Nobody's mentioned this fight. I think there are obvious reasons not to make this fight. I don't know that you, I don't remember what you did on onto the next one in this regard. How would you feel if next week Dana White goes on Instagram,

announces a fight and he's like we've got former UFC welterweight champion Jack Delamadelina taking on Sean Brady in the co-main event of UFC 324 in Las Vegas

or I guess they're going they're theoretically going to Australia in February how do you feel about that matchup because I kind of I've been thinking about it I think I love it I'm fine with it

I think I'm fine with it If things fall into where that has to happen, um, like if, if morale like I, I like JDM Pratches too. Like I do like that fight quite a bit. I mean,

that fight would be fun, but I desperately want to see Michael Morales fight process. So I'm holding out the hope for that. I like, it kind of feels like, okay, Jack, you need to learn how to wrestle. So here's the guy who's going to wrestle.

Um, it would let us know, like, is Islam not good? Because if Jack just like stymies Sean Brady, it's like, oh, maybe Islam's just unreal. Or it'll put Sean Brady sort of right back in the thick of things, which would be fun. But I could also, like, I don't know, I, that got into my head and I was just like, I can't, I can't get rid of it. I kind of really want to see that fight now. That's fine.

I wouldn't mind Usman, JDM, either. Yeah, it would also be fun. You kind of get the same, the same result. That would also be fun. So, yeah, that would be, that would be very interesting. J.D.F. versus, that would be interesting. JDm versus Sean Brady. Yeah, I just, I haven't seen anyone else throw that one out.

And it's so, like, obvious to pick losers of a weight class. But I'm like, I don't know, that kind of, that scratches me right where I it, you know. I like that fight. I mean, I do like that fight. Welterweight is awesome right now. Wilterweight's really fun. Yeah. I wonder.

I'm curious to see how they booked JDM. That was trying to like who do you do a lot of things, right? With him, like if Ian loses to belal, that fight obviously would make some sense. I mean, even like a Buckley fight would kind of make sense. So there's not like a wrong way to book it, but I got in my head, Sean Brady versus Jack. And I was like, I, yeah, I'd like to see that. That's the thing I'd like to see. Yeah, Buckley's in a really.

tough spot right now. Yeah. Maybe Sean Brady can move his feet against Jack, which he apparently did not do against Islam. Yeah. I can't, Walter Wade is great, man. Walter Wade's dope. Shout out to the heavy hands boys. I think it was Connor Rebish said this.

I was listening to the pod this week. And it's not quite the way it sounds, but he did note that, like, Islam Makachev now has wins over a legitimate. great featherweight champion a legitimately great lightweight champion and a legit welterweight champion those are the three best weight classes in the sport they've been historically

like the best weight classes in the sport right at the top of them and to get wins over elite guys in those weight classes is a very rarefied thing to accomplish even if the light weight is over he was much bigger than Oxenipokovsky that's just fact it's still like pretty impressive to do that

before we go we got like five minutes till we're on for 90 and 90 is a good run yeah we got two more questions I think I believe the answer's obvious but very quickly Habib Islam Islam has Islam surpassed Habib do we do we all agree I think most people think that I'm actually less

I'm open to the idea that he hasn't but where do you stand it's it's tough man because I was like because we had that question for the roundup there, the weekend grades, the weekend report. And, like, I was trying to, like, list it out. Because I, at first I had him, like, I was like, yeah, Islam's like tough 15. And then, like, the more I did it, like, Habib was the toughest name to have him leapfrog. So I think I have Habib, like, one spot above him. But I'm open to listening to the other side for sure. I have them. I just think the level of competition for Habib is better. And it's not,

That's not Islam's fault at all. It's not. But I will say nothing, like of everything that happened on Saturday, and whether you liked the main event or not, Habib's face when he got in that octagon after that fifth round, and he hoisted Islam on his shoulders and marched him around, like the look on his face, like supporting his guy, like more so than, like, you never saw that look on his face.

Like, would he won the lightweight belts? No, or like any of his title. ever been like that was that was awesome like that was really really cool to see a guy like you know just put that shine on his on his prized people so to speak it was really cool i i love their dynamic because it is like he genuinely has joy in his heart like this is i mean he's said in interviews and i believe it where he's like i'm much happier with what he's accomplished and what i ever accomplished i have them basically even because it hobib's career is obviously so strange. I still think Habib is the best lightweight of all time. I don't believe Islam has

surpassed it. And because he's no longer at lightweight, I don't think he ever will. But like this is, it's been interesting. Like, this is an accomplishment Habib never had, right? And I am less into the two-weight class thing than basically everybody else in the sport is. But beating a legitimate welterweight champion is probably is a better individual win than any of Habib's. all of Habib's lightweight wins are better than Islam's, which is why I think he's a better, like a greater historical lightweight champion. And so it's just like a fascinating dynamic between the two of them. I also, I suspect Islam will make it clear that he is historically greater than Habib.

But again, he will never be as beloved. Habib will always be the Rocky Marciano kind of weirdo, outlier of everything in this sport, which is kind of fun. But yeah, the whole. dynamic of that one other thing because we got some super chats this is another thing I really it'll never happen like I know it'll never

happen I understand on it and it should it want to be super clear if the UFC came out and booked this tomorrow I would be mad that they booked it uh there's there's a man blowing things by my thing so let me try and say this loudly so you can get it and then you can talk and I can mute

I think Islam Makachev has the best chance to beat Hamse up shemaiah at middleweight wow they shouldn't book it the fight will never happen it shouldn't happen i still probably would pick hamzot i would pick hamzot i'm really interested in that fight from like a from like a just a pure fight standpoint everything else about it would be bad uh uh i don't know man in my head I understand the advantages Hamzat has also in my head if there's one guy who spent his whole life

literally his entire life fighting the closest approximation to Hamzot there is it's Islam his entire life was being the nail to Habib's hammer nobody would be better prepared nobody would have a better training partner to prepare them to fight Hamzat then Islam wouldn't in Habib.

It'll never happen, but I keep thinking about that fight now. And I'm, man, I would like us to be able to do it in a way that wouldn't F everything else up, but it can't be done. I still think it's Fluffy Hernandez

who's the toughest fight for him. Fluffy is very tough as well. It's certainly very, very tough as well. But I just, I can't get out like Islam's entire life has been fighting a guy like Hamzat. Yeah.

His entire life has been fighting a guy like Hamzat. Yeah. just think the size is too much man it's there's there's a big size gap there yeah a couple super shats so we'll get out of here there's one other question i want to quickly go through as well uh if waldo wins he gets the next title shot right no after cyro gone i guess um i mean after um alexander wolcov baby well cov's on a run right now man i mean if waldo goes out there and nukes Shemiel Gadsie up on like 72 hours notice. It doesn't matter.

I think it does. I think it does. Does anyone remember Volkov beating up? It's not of Volkov's fault, but. No, but he just lost to Sergey. Like, he just lost to Sergey. Volkov should be on like a six-by-win's-gun. Yeah, but nobody believes he lost to him.

Everybody believes Sergey beat WCA. Nobody alive believes O'Con beat Volkov the second time. Two judges believe it, and that's it. I think Volkov is next up. Next weekend off, best Thanksgiving side dish. Easy. All of them are great. It all works together.

Mashed potatoes is the answer. Yep. It's if, look, any Thanksgiving meal you sat down to, you have to have to have turkey because it's like the thing, right? But nobody, nobody ever would choose turkey is the best thing. If you, how mad would you be, Mike? If you went to a friend's house for Thanksgiving dinner, and they didn't have mashed potatoes. So, like, yeah, we don't believe in potatoes in this house or whatever.

Like, you would just be furious. Yeah, I did Thanksgiving, like, a couple years ago at my brother-in-law's house. And they did the fried turkey thing, which was great. They had mashed potatoes, but they try to be too fancy with them. And I, like, didn't like them. That's almost worse. It's like seeing it and knowing you don't like them. Just do it.

right just the normal thing you mash them up little butter do the little sour cream you're good yeah i don't even need the sour cream if you want to do it fine but you don't need it just do the regular potato thing little butter little salt and pep you're good to go and then that is the base for the meal because you can put all the veggies in there if it's not mashed potatoes i think cranberry sauce is like you got to do some cranberry sauce i think that like just makes it feel thanksgiving eat because you can just have like a regular turkey dinner on a wednesday in june and like not have cranberry sauce and you're like all right like the fix the other fixings are fine but if you don't have it on thanksgiving it just doesn't feel like thanksgiving not a big cranberry sauce guy uh

and my feeling is that but for stuffing because i don't do a lot of stuffing outside of thanksgiving especially like actual stuffing not just dressing like stuffed in the bird and cooked there that's stuffing is the number two mashed potatoes is the runaway favor to me and with cranberry sauce again you don't need to reinvent the wheel you don't need to make it fresh out of the can and in the man it's all it's the best gravy sauce uh last question for i get out of here with the ufc simah mojahev in twenty 26 uh he's in guitar right now i believe i saw him there um so maybe he makes the appeal to dana uh Dana doesn't they don't like him not entirely without reason but look that's one of the five best flyweights on

the world he's super young he's coming back i'll say yeah let's have some fun and I'll say yeah. Nope. I say no, I don't think he'll ever, I don't think he'll ever fight for the UFC again. That would be a travesty. It would be an actual, like actual travesty. I mean, I'm sorry, man.

Like, it's just not going to, they don't need them. They just don't. They don't, but they don't need to hold the grudge either. He can apologize. He's apologized a bunch. This is not a man who's going to stand on principle. He will beg. And maybe that's what he's,

He's in guitar and he's like, hey, man, I'm really sorry. Whatever I need to do to not have you be angry at me, I want to be here. I can't imagine his entire career would take place outside of the O.C. He's simply too good. He's got a lot of work to do. All right. I will, I'll say he has a 5% chance of ever coming back. He has a 0% chance of coming back in 2026, unless it is like desperate times.

I think he's going to get in their good graces over in Qatar. He's going to buy fruit baskets for Hunter and Dana and massages, whatever else he has to do to make them love him. And I'm going to wish for a better world, Michael, and that by the end of 2026, Malamahev will be on his way back to the Octagon. Well, I'll be on to Miami. That's right. As Exteran says, he'll be a big power slap guy.

He'll start just boosting power slap on socials. Be like, Power slap, is it the most exciting sport on two feet? Some people are saying, and suddenly he'll be back in the good graces. I don't think he'll do that. We're out of here, everybody. We've run out of time. Thank you so much. See you next week.

Probably on Tuesday, by the way. Okay. Love you all. Okay. Oh, that makes sense. Thanksgiving being Thursday. Yes. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.