MMA Fighting - BTL | Usman vs. Covington, UFC 268, Teixeira & Yan Title Wins, Makhachev's Ceiling, More | Tourney Match #1

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

Colby Covington will challenge Kamaru Usman once again for the UFC welterweight title in the main event of UFC 268. This week on Between the Links, it's an opening round matchup in the coveted BTL championship tournament and that massive main event will be discussed, along with Rose Namjunas vs. Zhang Weili, the stakes in the Justin Gaethje vs. Michael Chandler main card opener, Glover Teixeira's light heavyweight title win at UFC 267 and if a long reign is a possibility, Petr Yan's interim title win over Cory Sandhagen, where Islam Makhachev should be ranked at 155, and more. Host Mike Heck will oversee the verbal battle between MMA Fighting's Damon Martin and Alexander K. Lee as they battle it out for a spot in the semi-finals. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Damon Martin: @DamonMartin Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links.

Our host, My! The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links, and I am fired up. It's a special time on the program. One, we are back on video. I know a lot of people are excited about that. And now you can't complain anymore because we're on video right now.

And two, this is the first opening round matchup in the inaugural BTL championship tournament. And since at this point, we have like five champions sprinkled all over the MMA space. We need to settle that. And it begins right now in a matter of moments. It'll culminate the week after UFC 269 and hopefully when the smoke clears and the dust settles,

there will be no more debate. We will have an undisputed BTL champion, and could it be one of the two tremendous competitors joining us this week? I think this is a heck of a way to start things off, especially with so much to discuss in the world of mixed martial arts. So let's get right into it. Let us introduce the combatants first.

Let us introduce the last man to actually pick up a victory on the show. We've just been kind of bantering about the last few weeks in lieu of this tournament, one of the best in the game. No one in the media space has been safe as of late. Mr. Damon Martin is here with a Halloween 5 t-shirt to boot. How are you? I am good. I wore Halloween 5 because I feel like it's going to be a slaughter of Alexander K. Lee today.

So I felt in honor of that I would wear a Michael Myers T-shirt. And his opponent, he will take on one of the mad scientists around the best MMA rankings on planet Earth, the MMA fighting global rankings. He's also the co-host of On to the next one. he's also the Prince of Positivity. And ladies and gentlemen, I just found this out maybe 10 minutes ago. We say it jokingly all the time, but today is actually his birthday. Mr. Alexander K. Lee, happy birthday, my best friend. How are you?

Please don't do that. Thank you, David Sandin, for anyone listening. And the people are messages are popping up on the screen saying, happy birthday, as they always do. But yes, it is. Believe it or not, there is actually a day where I was born. This is it, November 4th. So, I mean, keep the birthday message coming throughout the year, obviously. I know I can't stop you, but yes, it is actually active today.

And, Damon, why, why Halloween 5? Is there something, is it a particularly sloaderie edition of the Halloween franchise? I'm not familiar. Why couldn't have been Halloween one? I have T-shirts for every Halloween movie with the exception of Halloween resurrection, which is the worst Halloween movie. Why, five? Yeah, this is, I wore Halloween 4.

last week and on Halloween, so I figured I'd go for the sequel now for Halloween 5. And like I said, what better way to, you know, to stage my destruction and, uh, and slaughter of a friend, uh, on live, uh, camera than to wear this today. So, you know, I'm sorry I have to do you see on your birthday. I'm sorry I put it that way. At least you're apologizing ahead of time. Oh, man, I love it already. Let's, let's get right into this thing. Let's begin with one of the feel good stories of the year. Not AK's birthday. That is a feel-good story of the year, but at 42 years young, Glover Tashara gentleman can call himself a UFC world champion. It submits Janbovich in the second

round at UFC 267 this past Saturday. What a story, A.K., I want to start with you. There's arguments to be made for a few fighters that we've seen, but where he's been, his age, the last chance, fighting Yambulovic, so forth and so on. Is Glover Tashirah the most unlikely? champion in UFC history? I mean, for me, it still has to be Michael Bisping. I mean, I know people will kind of look at like Bisting was always a popular fighter. He was always a guy who had felt like the UFC was trying to angle into a tell shot. And that's certainly true.

He got a lot of fight night main events. He got a lot of number one contender opportunities. But when he finally won it, I think by then the feeling was so remote. It almost felt like the middleweight division had moved on with other stars. Like, you know, Chris Wydenman had come along and Luke Rockhold and Jacques Aere and Y'all Romero, of course. Gayguard was there at the time. Robert Whitaker was coming up. This is even before Adisania.

But either way, it felt like, well, the UFC doesn't need Bissbino mentality anymore. Then he wins it on short-nove rematch as a guy who dominated and submitted him in first meeting. So that to me is a more unlikely. All the credit in the world, of course, to Glover-Diara. it. But he at least had the chance. He had challenged for a title before. His title shot did not come out of nowhere. You know, it was like he would have gotten it instead of Israel Adesania, but he would have gotten it before him if Israel Adda Sanya hadn't become so popular. And the temptation of a champion versus champion fight there for the UFC totally understandable to everyone while they went with that before. Glover DeSherra. But it never felt like DeSherra was after his like, you know, third, fourth straight win. I never felt like he was out of the picture. It did feel like he was going to compete for it. And ahead of the fight, certainly in the weakly out of the fight, there was a lot of buzz that he would win. So this wasn't like a bismic situation where it's just like, okay, well, he's getting called in a short notice to give Luke

Rockhole to tell the defense. Rockhold's going to take him out again. There was definitely, definitely some thought that Blahovic is a vulnerable champion and that he would lose. When you've taken totality, his age and his whole journey, it does seem unlikely. But now that we've kind of had, now that it's actually happened, and we've kind of had a lot of moment to appraise to share her recent performances and how he earned this tell a shot it makes it seem a little less likely any this is degrees i mean this is degrees i'm saying bisping is still the most unlikely to sherra when you look at it still feels like how the hell did this happen but i'll go with bisming uh if not just him um there might be someone i'm forgetting but definitely bisping probably

ahead of him and and uh to sherr's up there but just behind dam what do dame what do you think because i think it was january 2019 there this is the beginning of the beginning of the the UFC on ESPN era, Glover de Chera, almost got knocked out by Carl Roberson, who was a middleweight at the time. He came back and got the finish in the first round, but he was in some big trouble, and he was kind of flip-flopping wins and losses.

It just seemed like he was a guy that maybe was there to put people over, and here he is, world champion. Like, what do you think? Like, is this, if I told you two years ago after the Carl Roberson fight that in November of 2021, we'd be talking about Glover Tashira as light, heavyweight champion of the world, would you believe me?

like how unlikely is this scenario in your mind? Well, it's incredibly unlikely for a number of reasons, not the least of which, is that, you know, when Glover, I would actually go back to the loss he had to Cory Anderson and say at that point, I thought, that's probably it for Glover. You know, he's probably not going to be that guy again.

You know, Corey beat him so one-handedly. And Corey at that time was still very much kind of like a middle of the road light heavyweight. He hadn't quite ascended to where he was an elite light heavyweight yet. And to beat Glover the way he did so dominantly, you're kind of like, okay, you know, it feels like passing at the torch a little bit, like Glover's time is done. And then he slowly but surely starts creeping up.

You know, he has the win over Roberson. Then he picks up the win over, you know, Nikita Krylov. I believe that was a split decision. You know, not the incredible performances. Then he gets matched up with Anthony Smith. And I think a lot of people thought, well, here's Anthony Smith's going to go out there and just, you know, kind of wreck the old guy. And then he, you know, he goes out there and puts on that performance against Anthony Smith

and does the same thing against Tiago Santos. no one saw this coming. And if you did, you're probably lying because no one saw Glover Tashara at 40 plus years old off of a two and three record over five fights, you know, losing to Gustafson, losing to Anthony Johnson, losing to Corey Anderson. And then somehow he goes on this five-fight win streak. No one saw this coming. And to A.K.'s point, the only guy I would put, and I agree, I think Bispin is a great case for,

like, the unlikelyest champion. The only other guy would say is right there is the other oldest champion in U.S. history. That's Randy Couture. When he beat Tim Sylvia to become heavyweight champion, after he had lost the light heavyweight title and lost two fights to Chuck Liddell. Again, same kind of thing. You're kind of like, there's no way this guy's going to climb back

to the top of the mountain. And then he does. So it's amazing, man. What Glover did this last couple years is ridiculous. It's amazing to see him doing what he's doing. But no one saw this coming. No one could have predicted after losing to Gustafson and then losing to Corey Anderson one fight later

would have said, oh man, this is a future light heavyweight. champion. Yeah, and Glover is just such a good dude. Like two months before, I was ring announcing a local MMA event in New England. And Glover's cornering all his fighters. They're all winning. That was two months before he's about to fight for probably the last chance at a world title.

He flies home from Abu Dhabi after winning the belt, gets the heroes welcome in Danbury, Connecticut. He's teaching classes the next day. And he's going to be in Alex Bahadda's corner on Saturday at UFC 268. What a guy is. Of course, he seems to be on a club. collision course with Yuri Perhaschka, the number one contender. That is a dangerous man. Perashka will likely be a big betting favorite in that fight once it's announced. But Glover's a dog out there like Dame was talking to, talking about his fight IQ is so incredibly high. He's relaxed.

He can still take big shots. He makes things dirty. He doesn't get rattled. And he's got that ground game, that pressure on top. He's a tough matchup for anybody, no matter how old he is, even the insanely violent Yuri Perashka. So let me ask you, Damon. I don't. I don't know. I Maybe it's a little early in the game to ask a question like this, but I think it's an important question. If I set the over under at one title defense for Glover Tashara, are you taking the over, the under, or a push? I'm probably going to take the under.

And the reason for that is, is that I am a big, big believer in Yuri Prohoshka. I think he's a monster. I think he is an incredibly dangerous fighter. And yes, he does take a lot of risks. I mean, he got, you know, caught in the Vulcan Osdemeur fight. He got caught in the Dominic Graham's fight. And, of course, Glover Tashire is a guy. If you don't put him away, he will make you pay for that.

But there was a reason last Saturday I said, you know, I would have loved to have seen Glover win the title and then lay down the belt and just retire in the cage. Not because I don't think he can go with these guys. I do. I still think he's, again, there's not a, there's not a case where you can't say he's not the best light heavyweight in the sport right now for what he did. But that being said, so rarely do we see a guy at this age at 42 go out on top. You know, you remember Randy Couture. I keep going back to Randy, but you bring a Randy Couture, you know, him getting knocked out by Brock Lesnar. And then, you know, kind of going on another run, having a few more fights and leaving the promotion.

With Glover, what better, you know, Cinderella story could there have been to have him win the title and then just say, you know what? I've achieved my dream. I've achieved the greatest thing I could achieve and I'm going to walk away. unfortunately we don't really have a lot of happy endings in this sport and i have a feeling that when you face uh the the master of disaster himself yari prohoshka you know i have a hard time believing a lot of people beat him and while i do think glover is you know a guy you can never count out i'm not counting him out by any stretch of imagination i i'm just a big big believer in yri peroshka aka what is your thoughts over under or a push and i thought anthony smith was very interesting on the

M.M.A. hour because he was asked essentially the same question. He thinks Glover's going to win. He saw some holes in Uri's game when Dominic Ray was able to get him to the ground. He actually mounted him in that fight. And obviously, Prasco was able to get out of it and fight back and get the violent finish. But Glover gets you to the ground. It could be night night. It could be the end of the night for you. So do you feel like we will actually see a title reign for Glover to Chera? Or will this be win the belt, fight Yuri. And at least you were the champ for a little while. anyways. Sorry, right.

Did you set the over under it half or one and a half? One. Just one. One. Oh, just one. Okay. Okay. Well, here's the thing is I'm going over, but here's why.

And it's not because I necessarily think that he'll beat Yer Prahashka. I have a feeling somehow the Yeri Phrashka fight doesn't happen next. It's what should happen. It's obviously what Yeri Phrashka wants. I think it's also what Glover-Therra wants to some degree. This is, and this isn't being cynical or pessimistic to traits that I despise. I just have a weird feeling, depending how long Tashire is going to want to wait and how long perhaps it's going to want to wait. It's going to be a long time that Yuri hasn't fought.

If Tashir does sit out until May, which was sort of suggested, again, there is a possibility. It comes back sooner. Either way, it might just make more sense for Yuri to fight again and for Tashire to end up somehow taking on, like, I don't know, Rackich or Ankaliev, maybe like Tiago Santo somehow sneaks in there. I think it'll be like kind of what I mentioned before with Bispying. When I was like, well, Bisting's going to get killed. He's going to have to face a Whitaker. Yeah, Robert Whitacore, Yorl Romero, Musassi. And he ended up fighting Dan Henderson, which again, I didn't think was totally unwarranted.

But to this day, people go like, well, he did defend the title. But was it really against, you know, the number one contender at the time? I believe even the UFC rankings, I think Henderson was ranked 14th, 13th or 14th. So even by the UFC's own numbering, it wasn't number one contended thing. So I feel like DeSherra could have that same kind of luck, for lack of a better word. I do think the Prasca fight, of course, will happen somewhere down the road. When it does, I will pick Yuri Prashka to beat Glover-Teshire or whoever happens to have the title at the time. I do think very highly of him.

But I feel like Glover might be able to sneak in some unsuspecting title defense in there. And again, he's a great fighter, not sneak away with a win, prove that he has. as a deserving champion and notch some notch a victory that most people seem to be again assuming just won't happen but yes so so yes the answer he'll have a rain but only because i don't think he's fighting yury next wow i loved glover getting yury all fired up yurrie where are you hey we're gonna fight in may and yury's face just dropped like his like his dog got injured it was it was pretty hilarious but doesn't seem like glover's going anywhere anytime soon retirement doesn't seem to be on this list right now, much like

Peter Jan, who's at the top of the Bannamweight championship discussion, the lone number one Bannamweight in MMA fighting is global rankings. Go check that out if you haven't yet. Listen to the podcast. Beats Corey Sanhagen. It was a great fight, wins four rounds to one, and Jan is just so good, so talented, and a

unification bow with Al Jemate Sterling is more than likely next. Sterling said, he's hoping no later than February. I think February is a great time for that fight to happen. With the talent at Bannamweight, I call it the Intercontinental Division all the time because it's great fighters, great matchups ahead, but there isn't like a star. There hasn't been that star in a while. You don't see Bannam White's headline paper views these days. It's been,

what, over two years? The Henry Sehudo Mara Mara Maris fight was the last Bannamweight fight to headline a payper view. And that's mostly because Suhudo was red hot at the time and he was looking to be a two division champion. But if this win, let me ask you to say, okay, can Jan be that guy for this division? Can he be the guy to go on a run, become a star, headline pay per views? Does he have the best chance right now at 135 of making that happen. It's him, and it also depends how long they can keep him away from Narab Mrab Navalisvili. Marab is, you know, has that wrestling base and is kind of, you know, just starting to peak. We're just starting to see the best of him.

So it feels like he's the guy who, when he gets the title, just has the style that's very conducive to a champion holding on to Othello for a long time. I think, you know, like GSP, obviously, having the option to be able to take anyone down and win in that way. But that said, I love, I mean, look, when you saw how Peter Jan went five rounds, Corey Sanagan, and he's developed his own style, which seems indominal, which is sometimes has a bit of a slow start. But a little bit like Anderson Silva back in the day, he gets his lasers locked in on someone. And you can see his opponent's options just ticking away. Like, suddenly the person can't get a tick. something the person can't circle the cage anymore.

Suddenly their jab is no longer as effective. Their jab is getting countered every time. They're losing every exchange. It's really amazing to watch that unfold. I was watching the Sanhagen fight again. And Sanhagen looked sensational in the first round. Maybe it was conditioning again. He took the fight on short notice.

But I give all the credit to Peotor Yan, because you could see him just having that preterm natural sense of how to figure out his opponent and shut them down and poses a ball in the fight. So that itself, you know, even without necessarily having a wrestling base, game. That itself is a way of being champion for a long time. The only thing is, as we always say, Mike, this is the deepest division in all of MMA, the 135 pounders. So at some point, he's

going to have to face again another one of these killers, whether it be Marab or someone else, another one of these guys coming up. And, you know, people just keep calling your number. And eventually, eventually you're going to get got. But if anyone has a chance, it's him or Marab. But I do like Jan's chances a lot. I just, gosh, what I bet on him having more than three or four tell defenses over the next couple of years. I don't think I could do it, Mike. I don't think I can do it. I don't know if there is a guy I feel super confident

that's going to have a, you know, 7, 8, 9 tell defenses in a row. I just can't see it at 135. Damon, your thoughts on just Jan's talents, just being so good. Could he be a long-wraining champion? If so, can the UFC build a star here? Like a star that can headline pay-per-views

and people are like, oh my God, Peodor Jan's headlining this pay-per-view. Let's buy it. Like, could we get to that point? potentially i think there's two key factors that could really put peter yon over in terms of his star power i think one uh is going out there and beating al jermaine sterling convincingly you know al jamein has become such a villain you know since that fight ended it's no fault of his own by the way al jane got needing the head in the legal knee and you know listen that's not his fault it was al jr was

it was definitely peter yon's fault that fight ended the way it did but the aftermath of that you know he has really become a villain and vilified in the sport. And whatever fan base is out there, you know, there's a lot of people who seem to dislike Al Jermaine Sterling these days. So I think if Peter Yon could go out there and convincingly beat Al Jermaine Sterling, that's one feather in his cap that's going to help him get over with the larger audience. Because, again, you want to have a foil. As a great champion, you need a foil.

You need somebody who's going to push you and help push pay-per-views. And I'm not saying that Al Jermaine and Peter Yon are. going to sell a million pay-per-views or not. But there's going to be a lot of interested people watching to see how that rematch goes, and especially to see, you know, if Peter can go out there and dominate the way he was in the first fight until the illegal knee. And I think part two of that equation is T.J. Dillishaw, because T.J. Delishaw was a guy who fought on pay-per-view.

He had those fiery rivalries with Dominic Cruz and, of course, Cody Garbrandt, and he was kind of on top of the world. And then, you know, he has the Henry Sehudo fight. Then, of course, he pops for EPO. he's out for two years. But we can't forget, there was a lot of attention being paid to T.J. Dillishaw when he was champion.

And I think if Peter Yon could go out there and go back to back, beat Al J. Delishol, and I'll say, I like him in both of those fights. I think he beats Al J. Sterling in the rematch, and I like him to beat T.J. Dillishaw, based upon the T.J. Dillishaw we saw against Corey Sanhagan.

I like Peter Yon to win that fight as well. So those are two key fights for him to kind of reach that next level of stardom. And I think what we're going to start to see here, you know, this last weekend was technically a free show. It wasn't really free. It was on ESPN Plus. But what we're going to start to see, or at least what I imagine we're going to see is we're going to see Peter Jan featured as the co-main event to bigger cards, meaning February, you mentioned, Mike, was a great timeline. That sounds like it's going to be Adisanya Whitaker, too. Obviously, Israel Adasania is a big star.

You put Adasanya versus Whitaker at the top. you put Peter Yan, Al Jermaine Sterling as the co-main, that gives them that shine, gives them that plug of having a bigger fight on top of that. And then maybe the same thing happens with the Dillishal fight where maybe they're the co-main event to Connors return or the co-main event to Dustoporriere or, you know, another big fight like that.

I think that would be a thing. So I think Peter Young getting those two fights and those two wins will do a lot for his star power and will really raise his profile because I do think he has a chance to be a good, long-reaning champion. But as A.K said, I will agree there. The band-of-way division is a shark pit, and there's no guarantee you're going to beat anybody. But to his credit, Peter Jan has already beaten Jose Aldo, who's looked phenomenal

his last couple of fights. He's already beaten Corey Sandhagen, who I consider the second-best band's weight in the sport in terms of talent, along with Al-Germain Sterling. And again, if he can beat Al-Germain, he's already eliminated three of the top guys in the top five already. So, you know, Peter's on a pretty good run already. he's got something there there's no mistaking and i and i noticed this again on saturday when you look at peter yon you can tell that that dude beats people up you can tell that he's a fighter there's no doubt

about if you saw him on the street you're staying away from him because he'd beat you up so we'll see what happens i love this division so many great fights but now let's move on to one of the more contentious discussions coming out of ufc 267 the point for round one goes to happy birthday a k Happy birthday. You're on the board. It's one to nothing. See, and listen, wasn't that a nice round, David, non-confrontational? You know, we're just having a conversation. We're just getting, because there's so many things I could say about you. And isn't it great that I held back and that we're just getting along?

And, you know, it could be that kind of show. It could be that kind of show. It's not going to be that show for very long, A.K., let me promise you that. Well, let's see what happens. here because there are a lot of big stories from UFC 267, one of which has to do with the lightweight division. Islam Makachev runs through a very tough Dan Hooker. He put him away quick and he barely broke a sweat doing it, which is no knock on Dan Hooker. This is all to do with how good Islam Makachev is. So, Damon, let me ask you, we've seen this run, his resume, his performances, and we all ask, like, how good could this guy be? Can you make the argument right now that Islam

Machachev is the best lightweight in the world. Unless he changed his name to Dustin Porriere, then no. He's not the best lightweight in the world right now. Is he amazing? Is he an incredibly tough matchup for everybody in the division? Could he be a future champion? Absolutely. But I'm a big believer in resume.

And, you know, when you look at Islam's record, nine wins in a row, all impressive, Dan Hooker was his first ranked opponent. You know, I don't know where in the UFC rankings, where Tiago Moises was out when they fought, but I don't, if he was ranked, it was really low. Dan Hooker's the one really truly legitimate win in this run over a guy with an established resume in this division. That's not to knock on his Lamakachev. He's amazing.

And I, I'll probably pick him against a lot of the guys at the top of the division. But I got, you got to have that resume. You got to have those fights. And Dustin Porre has those fights. You know, Dustin Porre has the statement wins. Dustin Porre has, you know, had the one loss recently. to Khabib Narbaghamaama out of the greatest lightweight of all time. No shame in that.

Khabib also has wins over a lot of other guys who are still in the UFC. So Islam is amazing. I think he has real championship potential. I would pick him to beat Charles Olivaire right now. He's the champion. I would pick him to win that fight. I would pick him to win a lot of fights. But until he goes out there and beats some of these guys,

until he beats Benildare Ush, until he beats just the last. in Gagee until he beats Charles Olivera, he's got to win those fights. And you can't call him the best lightweight until he does that. And like I said, Dustin Porre has the resume. Dustin Porre, without the title, is the best lightweight in the sport right now. And when you look at his resume, you look at what he's done, you look at who he's beaten. I just have a hard time picking anybody over him. You can argue that Islam might beat him in a fight.

That's fine. Argue that all day. But you can't say he's the best in the world when he doesn't have the resume of Dustin Porriere. A.K., what do you think? Because we say this all the time. Every time he's on Machachev fights in the aftermath, we always say, and I think all of us have said it at some point, this guy might be the best lightweight in the world right now. We're not, no one's really pulled the trigger in saying that, but we all say he might be

the best lightweight in the world right now. And Damon's right. You got to rack up these wins. You got to get some, build that resume a little bit more. And it's through no fault of his own because who wants to fight this guy right now? The risk reward, kind of like Marab for a while. Rob just kind of get himself to a point where it's just like, you got no choice, you have to fight this guy. And I think Islam is just about there. But can you make the argument? I'm not saying that you're saying right now he's the best lightweight in the world,

but can you make the argument that he is after this win? You definitely could. You definitely could. I was probably one of the later people to get on the Habib is the best bandwagon. It was, I probably just before the I equitifite, I would have finally been like, yeah, okay, I hear where people are saying, this Habib guy is serious and probably the best lightweight in the world.

He just needs to tie. He just needs to win the title and that, but really before he was, you know, anointed by the UFC with their big shiny belt, Nirmagamato probably was already the best. Now, Islam, I don't know. I don't know if you want to, if everyone's quite as eager to do so to make that proclamation, but it's just so hard to deny the similarities between them. Of course, their close friends, training partners, the way they dominate their fights is

is just incredible. And the reason I'm giving Makachev so much the ban for the doubt here, not just because I don't want to be late again on, you know, and on naming him as the best. It's not his fault that this fight with like, you know, RDA keeps falling through.

Like that would have been a huge win. That's, you know, former lightweight champion. That would have bumped him up so much earlier. It's not his fault that the top of the lightweight division is kind of, was kind of mightied up by Porri, doing the right thing, by the way,

doing the right thing, taking two Kahn and McGregor fights. Good for Dustin Forer. I will never criticize that decision. I think it made him a lot more money than fighting anybody else. Porreier, you do you, you live your life. However, however, the downside to make those decisions is you have to know that you are facing, again, a guy in McGregor, who is in the eyes of many is not considered an elite lightweight anymore. Or at least doesn't, again, has not had the results lately to deserve that title.

So when you do that, then you leave the door open like, well, you know, these guys coming up behind. Corrie, who are fighting, who are trying to move up the division and trying to fight tougher competition, are they better than him? And you're leaving open that doubt. And again, he could have sealed that by taking out Charles Oliver, taking out, you know, whoever else he could have had to besides taking a second McGregor fight, right? So, sorry, third McGregor fight, I should say. So in that sense, the door is open.

It's also not Makach has fault that he shares management with several other top lightweights, which I think is also kind of slow his ability to go up the ladder, like Benile Dereyush. They probably would have fought already. Justin Gaithji, again, he's got the Chandler fight now. Will he, if Gates Getsi loses, will he be thrown to a match up with Makachev? Maybe not even. They have the same management. And I get it.

When you get to this level, it's not as much of an issue. We've seen dominance MMA fighters matched up before, but it does make things a little more difficult. So there are kind of all these factors working against Makachev. But the one factor that should really matter to us and those of us watching the fights is, man, when you see this guy, he's so dominant. He reminds you so much of Habib. and outside of one blip, I think it was against like Arjuna Martinez, however many years ago, he really hasn't come close to being finished. So I understand the hesitance to anoint him number one.

And I'm a huge Charles Olivera fan. But I think Machachev has done enough that if there's, if there are Makachev stands out there that saying this guy's the best in the world, I'll tell you, I am not going to make a strong argument against it. Okay. So Casey likes that answer. So we talked about this, AKA. There are people who think Makachev should just go fight for the title right now. Like go fight for the belt. Whoever wins Oliver Rivera versus Porre.

Machachev is next in line. There's people who want to see him fight Daryush, fight either Chandler or Gaichi based on the result of that fight, get one more win, a win in the top five. And while the man is impressive, like Damon said, he has not had a top five win. He hasn't had the quote unquote, undeniable signature win. Dan Hooker is a nice name to have on the resume,

but I wouldn't, as tough. and as good and as fun as Dan Hooker is, I don't consider beating Dan Hooker a signature win, especially in this division. Some fighters don't need that. Others do, and there's no denying the potential that this guy has. So, like we talked about it on to the next one, more so it was more of like what you would like to see happen.

What do we do with Makachef now that we've had a couple days to read? Do you just throw him in a title fight, or does he have to get this one more win before you can make that decision? He does not need the one more win. If he gets it, it's nice. It's more likely. I think most likely he is going to have to fight again before getting the title shot. But I have been saying, I think ever since 267 ended, or after the fight with Hooker ended,

if Chandler beats Gaithji and if Olivera beats Porriere, they're not going to do a Chandler-Olivera rematch right away. They could because the first fight was so exciting. I just don't think they'll do that right away. For me, that opens the door right for Makachev to slide in and fight Olivera. I think the UFC likes Makachov. I think they think that he would beat Olivera. And I think that they're eager to again, maybe get like I keep comparing to Habib, so I apologize for that.

But it's just so unavoidable. And I don't know if he'd be quite as popular as him, but I think if he can be, have a fraction of the popularity that Habib had right near the end when he went out on top, the UFC would be very, very, very happy. So I think Makachev wants to happen. They wanted to happen. More likely, I think Chandler is going to lose to Gates G. So there's a little pick in advance for you.

And that Makachab will end up fighting Chandler. But again, should Chandler win, should Oliver win? Guys, you will see Makachov fighting for that lightweight title before like the middle part of 2020. Damien, I see where AK's coming from. And a lot of times when we have these conversations, you got to pass the Dana White test. And the Dana White test, it's hard to pass sometimes. When Dana's asked about you at the press conference, if he doesn't flat out say, yep, this guy's next. It's absolutely fighting for the title next.

Chances are pretty slim that you're going to fight for the title next. was not sold completely on this. He did not dive right in. He was like, yeah, we'll see what happens. Matchmaking meeting on Tuesday, which means that they haven't made their decision yet. And if you go out there and get a huge win, that decision can be made for you.

So what are your thoughts? What happens with Mockachachov? Do you think they throw them into a title fight? Is there a chance that happens? Or does he have to beat Darius or somebody with a big name and just get that signature win before you can throw them in there?

I mean, there's a chance that happens. I mean, there's a chance that happens just like there's a chance, you know, AK Lee would beat me on between the links. but the likelihood is just not there. The reality is, you know, there's basically a one case scenario where Mokachev could get a title shot next, and that's if Charles Olivaura beats Dustin Porre

and Michael Chandler beats Justin Gae this weekend. In that case, you've eliminated probably the two biggest roadblocks to Mokachev getting in to a title shot right away. In that case, Mokachev against Olavera could happen, but that's a lot of ifs. Right now, most people are picking Justin Gachie to beat Mokache to beat Michael Chandler. I'm picking Justin Gachie to beat Michael Chandler.

I love to fight, and I wouldn't be shocked whatsoever if Michael Chandler wins, but again, I got to be honest. On paper, I like Justin Gagy to win that fight. Dustin Porriere fights Charles Oliva. I love what Charles Olivares has done lately. He has looked incredible,

and this run he's been on has been so unbelievable. But I think Dustin Porier beats him. In that case, they're going to do Pori Gaci, too. The first fight was amazing. They're going to do the rematch. And right, and right,

So because Gaichi, you know, I'm not going to say he gets screwed out of the title shot, but, you know, I hate that argument just because he lost the Habib. He showed them been in consideration. To me, that's ridiculous. Everybody lost the Kabib. I mean, if they would have done Gaichi Poree, too, to crown a new champion, I think that probably would have made the most sense. It's just a A didn't want to go to two guys who just lost the Kabib and also Dustin wanted the Connor fights. And rightfully so. He should. He should go out and get paid all that money. And if Connor comes back, Kobe gets a third Connor McGregor payday, or a fourth, I should say. fourth Connor McGregor payday because go out and get your money. There's not enough money being made in a sport for anyone to turn down a multimillion dollar payday like that. But outside of that, he's just got too many roadblocks in front of him. And as I said before, Dan Hooker's a good win. I agree. Dan Hooker's a great win.

I love Dan Hooker. Okay, Dan's a great guy. But Dan is not a top five guy. He's never been a top five guy. Islam needs that statement win over a top five guy. I think beating a former champion like Dosanos would have been a great. feather in his cap. It's just unfortunately he couldn't stay healthy. He couldn't get to

the fight. That's not Islam's fault. But Islam does need that win. He needs that marquee win to put him over the top. Olavera got it when he beat Tony Ferguson in a very one-sided fight. Everyone thought Tony's going to come back from the Gaichi fight and he'll be able to get back on top. Olivaire

went out there and dismantled him. And then Olivera was immediately, everyone said, wow, Charles Olaver is for real. He's a title contender. He needs that marquee fight. He needs to beat Benile Daryush. He needs to beat Michael Chandler. He needs to beat Justin Gachie. He needs that win on his resume. So everyone is pounding the drum like we were for Khabib saying this is the best guy in the world. He just doesn't have the title. He needs that win. And listen,

otherwise, unless all these chips fall into place, which again, it could happen. We could be staring at Charles Olavera winning, Michael Chandler winning, and then, you know, Islam kind of slides in there. But the more likely scenario is one of those things doesn't happen. He's, either Porier wins or whatever. And then at that point, you're talking about a lot of what-ifs and hands and butts. And I think just giving him the fight with Benile Daryush, because let's not forget what Benile's doing right now. Benile's on a seven-fight win streak, finishing everybody, dominating Tony Ferguson.

I mean, I hate the banal is somehow out of this conversation, like he hasn't been on a great winning streak. We've just forgotten about him. Let Benil fight Islam. The winner of that fight is the clear-cut number one contender. Of course, we have a lot going on at 155, as you both alluded to. So hopefully there'll be a little more clarity in this conversation in a little over a month's time.

But let's talk this Saturday. That's why a lot of people are here. Let's talk first about the big one for the Walterweight Championship of the world. Point for round two goes to from Haddonfield, Illinois, Damon Martin. It is one-to-one. Good stuff. I don't know if you guys are looking at the comments. They are calling Damon Bain because his...

His mouth is completely obscured by his lovely microphone. I love it. So there's a lot of LFG Bain in the coffee. It's kind of throwing me off. I'm not going to lie. It's a little intimidating. I like it. I like it.

It's a little intimidating. The Bumar. The Bumart up here. Yeah. You are you are dictating right now. Well, that was Abu Dhabi. We are back in New York. UFC 268 back at MSG.

Main event, the rematch from an all-time classic between Kamar Usman. and Colby Covington for the strap. First fight was just so, so good. Usman Gates gets the late finish. Covington has pled his case ever since that it was an early stoppage, that Mark Goddard is terrible. There were early stoppages of the action in the fight.

And Lummer Haydham. Colby Covington is a terrific fighter. And Usman is, in my opinion, and in the opinion of many other people, the best active fighter on planet Earth right now, regardless of weight class. And he's quickly moving towards the GSP level at 170 pounds.

So AK the birthday boy, let me start with you here. Dana White was really excited to rebook this one. No matter what happened at 170, this was always the fight. And even though Colby has only fought once since their first meeting and he beat a guy who's no longer in the UFC, a guy, let's be honest, was way past his best days. Dana White has been selling us this fight for a long time. Dana's excited.

Are you excited? Yeah, definitely. Look, look, I can't stand Colby Cumberton personally. I mean, that's no secret. I'm not a fan of a schick. I'm not a fan of what may or may not be his real personality and politics and all that. So, you know, but putting that aside, I love that first fight. I love that.

I mean, I think in retrospect, in the moment, for one thing, it was super exciting. It was a super exciting back and forth fight, again, regardless of how you feel about either guy and their personas. It was really, really great. I think, I know I saw in retrospect some people going like, you know, it was kind of a sloppy brawl. Like it wasn't, you know what I mean? It was, it wasn't like this great technical battle. And I'll agree. broke down at points. That's what makes

MMA so fun. You have two guys who are so well trained. And at the end of the day, it comes down to cardio and guts and just, I mean, some degree of luck. For both guys, there were some fouls in there. It was a funky fight, but it was like a real fight. The animosity was real.

The pre-fight animosity carried over into the action, which doesn't always happen. We see guys, a lot of people talk trash and genuinely hate each other. And the fight, you know, it just doesn't kind of go that way. So this was, I mean, this is everything you could have asked for. I want to take a second to shoot down all this.

I would hope it's dead by now. The Colbyn Coving Cometin could have won the fight on the scorecards that the fight hadn't been stopped, which is absurd. He was up on one of the cards. Another judge had a draw. Another judge had Uzman up. So even if the fight had not been stopped, Usman would have won a 10-9 or 10-8 fifth round and would have won a split decision or a majority decision. So all that talk is crazy. But yes, I'm really excited.

If it wasn't for Covington's injury, again, I would have had no issue if they had ran it back immediately. Better options came along for Usman, of course. He ended up getting the back to her fights with Jorge Mosvidal and then a very nice teledefense against Gilberrains, who I think is actually the second best 170-pound fighter in the world. So for him to get that fight was great. But if this had been run back long ago, I'd have no problem with it. Covington also got to get a good win, finally fight Tehran Woodley. So things worked out for the best.

So in a way, I was excited for it then, Mike, and because of these guys have had the chance to win fights in between and it wasn't necessarily just thrown into an immediate rematch, I'm even more excited. I like, you know, there's just sometimes that classic appeal to a quote unquote, good versus evil matchup. You know, fans can decide which side is which, but I think people know who I'm,

who I doesn't say is good and who I say it's evil and why I think it's just such a compelling rivalry. What about you, Damon? When we confirmed this fight a couple months back, is this one you've had circle on your calendar ever since? I know AK thinks darkness is his ally, but that's just not the reality here because in my best bane to say that. Listen, I like the fight. I'm excited for the fight. The first fight was great.

But I have an issue with Colby getting a rematch off one win while the champion has gotten three more. What backwards world are we living in where the champion is out fighting his contenders? Isn't that kind of the point of being a contender? You have to earn your way back there. Colby beat Tyron Woodley, who I don't think anyone is going to say Tyron Woodley is the same Tyron Woodley as he was during four or five years ago. And then he sits and just gets his title shot. And Camaro's out there beating, you know, Mazvedal twice and and beating Gilbert Burns. That just seems wild to me. Now, that doesn't mean I don't like the fight. I'm looking forward to the fight. I think it's going to be fun.

You know, I think Kabbar Usman is the best welterweight in the sport. And I think talent-wise, he might be the best welterweight ever alongside George St. Pierre. But yeah, I mean, I'll watch it. I'm excited for it. But it just didn't make a lot of sense based on what the other guy had done to earn it. And I know, and I've said this a million times. And I know, Mike, you know, one of my favorite sayings in this sport, which is, you know, if you want to be a legitimate mixed martial arts fan and not lose your

mind at every turn. You have to strike the word deserves from your vocabulary because nobody really deserves anything. Now, in reality, no one really was banging on the door of a title shot. You could argue Leon Edwards because of his win streak. He technically was the number one guy. And I wouldn't have had a problem if he got a title shot considering, you know, the win streak he's on. But no one was going to bang the drum and buy a million pay per views to watch Leon Edwards fight Kamar Usman. But again, wins and losses matter. And Colby said one, one win over. a guy who is not in the UFC anymore to a guy who we all kind of agree is not the same

Tyron Woodley he once was. So it's just weird to me that he's getting this rematch based almost purely upon Dana White loving the first fights because you can't you can't tell me that winning over Tyron Woodley earned you a title shot.

You just can't while Kumar Usman's fought three more times. Usman has been sensational this year and if he beats Colby Covington he probably will lock down the fighter of the year. He's been active. He's been finishing guys. Covington has been a bit of the mystery. We have no idea what he's been doing. He said he's been training in silence, getting better. He seems ready to go. And while there are still some big fights out there for him,

because he's laid the groundwork for them, this might be Colby's last chance for quite a while to become a world champion. So we talked about the first fight, Damon. We talked about how highly you regard Kamar Usman and what he's done lately. you see this in your mind being a similar type of fight, another back and forth war that heads into the fifth round really close, or do you think this one goes down much differently? No, I mean, listen on paper, I think Kamar Uisman wins this. I had this conversation on my podcast, the fighter versus the writer would Bilal Muhammad a couple days ago, and we both kind of agreed that I think Kamarro has just gotten so much

better since that Kobe Covington fight. His hands, his striking is not only good. now it's great he's got knockout power and legit boxing working with trevor whitman has done wonders for oosman's game in terms of what he does on the feet i mean he's always been a decent striker and and he had a good chin we saw that in the first colby covington fight but now he's knocking people out and he's showing real legit hand skills little real legit boxing skills uh i don't know how colby's going to approach this fight if colby's going to try to outristle him and he's going to try to clinch and work oosman against the cage like he's done some other guys and stay on the outside and then work to the inside to put him there.

But again, even in that aspect, unless Usman has just completely abandoned his wrestling in terms of his preparation, he's not going to out wrestle Kamar Usma. Quar Usman's never been taken down. You know, and maybe Colby's the guy, the first guy to do it, but I'd be shocked if he was in the clinch. Kumar Usman has been very strong in the clinch. He's a very physically imposing welterweight. You know, I just don't see a real great.

path to victory for Colby Covington. When you think about all the things that Colby does well, I think Usman does them as good if not better. He's a better striker, more power, better wrestling, stronger. Again, weird things happen. And I've said this numerous times leading into this fight. The worst enemy that Kamar Usman has right now is his own complacency. If he just can't get up for a rematch with Colby Covington

because he did beat him so decisively the first time with a fifth round knockout and broke the guy's jaw. If that has just left him vacant in terms of his anticipation and his preparation for this fight, then maybe Colby's got a chance. But otherwise, if Usman doesn't beat himself, I have a hard time seeing where Colby beats him. What's your read, A.K., because that's a very interesting point because Kamaro is kind of, in a way, battling with himself. Like, how could I do it better than I did the first time?

How can I match what that first fight was? And he was very open at his media day. When he was asked about Hamzaat Shamaia, if he basically said, I don't know how much longer I'm going to do this for. I'm going to do this fight. And, you know, if the right opportunity comes, the right money comes, I'll keep on going. He's talking about fighting Canello now, like wanting to fight him.

Like, all these things coming out of his mouth. And Colby did an interview with the SPN. He basically said, like, my biggest worry is me, like himself. It's like an inner, it's like an inner battle within himself, like trying to figure out like who the real Colby Covington is and who is the guy behind the persona and all this stuff. And it's, it's got to be tiring, man. to try to figure out which one's real and which one's not

and trying to decipher between the two. So what's your read, A.K., do you think it's a similar sort of, this is one we're going to be talking about for years to come being an all-time classic like the first one, or is this one going to be a different cup of tea altogether? I don't know about that. I think it's rare that you get back-to-back classics in a series.

I'm sure people flood the comments with all the fights I'm forgetting. But general, I think we've seen a lot of rematches kind of when they happen. This isn't an immediate one. But definitely a lot of rematches tend to go the way of the champion, often in definitive fashion, or at least in the person who, you know, people thought won the first fight. I'm thinking of like Machita and Shogun. You know, everyone thought Shogun won the first fight when they rematch Shogun just completely smoked them. And there's other instances where, you know, someone actually did win the first fight and they rematch and take the person out again even faster than they did before. So I can't, like, I don't see it going the same way as the first one. I don't think it's going to be a five-round classic. I actually have. in my mind, Usman finishing probably in the second or third round this time. But I like the fact that Usman is talking about other things. He seems, you know, he's creating that doubt if you're like an Usman hater or if you want to pick against him. Is he distracted? Is he no longer invested in running through these, you know, probably all these rematches he's going to do again, Covington

and whoever else he has to fight again, right? He's mentioning Canello. He wants to go into boxing. Oh, no, we saw McGregor do this. You know, we saw Ron. Naraazi going to into Hollywood before her big collapse. Is this is this Usman's moment where he, even though Stephen Miochich was talking about boxing a lot before he got taken up by Angano. So anytime the conversation, a champion, like moves the conversation away from MMA, there's that doubt. But what makes us even more exciting, I think, is the fact that it is Covington.

This is a guy who he genuinely hates. I don't know if he's ever going to come out and say, I effing hate this dude. That just doesn't seem like an Usman thing to say. I think it's pretty clear that the dislike is very real. I think he enjoyed breaking his jaw. I think he's going to enjoy doing it again. And so that aspect of, it sounds sadistic, I admit, that aspect of it excites me.

That much like the first Mazvedal and the second Mosvado fight, Uzman's like, I don't want to hear this crap about I'm pillow-fisted, and I couldn't finish a guy on who was coming in on short notice. Okay, we'll see. This is why we get to do the rematch. So for Usman, now it'll be like, all right, people have been pushing this weird thing about the scorecards oh was it was it a weird stoppage uh they they should have let the fight go there was so little time left you know even though his jaw was injured

well now you know now i'll break his jaw in the second round and there won't be any question so uh yeah i think we're all kind of heavily going uh for for usman here but for me uh that that that makes it more compelling that he does absolutely to prove um that there was that little bit of doubt from their first fight so um yeah i'm definitely i'm definitely all in on it um and i see it going differently, but still very, very well for the champion. All right. Last thing on this. Of course, we got the press conference coming up a little bit later on 5 Eastern,

which you can go to M.A.fighting.com to watch. So things might pop off a little bit there. But this one, AK, the bill to it, at least to this point. And yes, Colby has said some things that weren't very kind and were kind of classless in a way. And it's been kind of. But between these two guys, it's been kind of tame. Like it hasn't been as ugly, not as cringy. as we probably thought it would be,

because as cringy as Covington can be, we've seen, too, Ousman can be kind of cringy in his own right. So I don't know, A.K., is this build not as ugly as you thought it was going to be? Like, what have you made of the build to this fight between these two guys? Is this surprising? No, I just think they went through so much they, I mean, specifically Colby has gone through so much of his material in the lead-up to this fight.

And let's be honest, without one Mr. Donald Trump in office, some of his persona has lost a bit of his juice. I don't think he was even seen wearing a red cap this week. I guess that's not in vogue now for Colby, the Trump supporter. I guess maybe they don't do that anymore. I wouldn't know. Maybe nobody wears his hats anymore.

I'm not sure. But either way, he sort of tamped that down, and that was such a big part of the lead-up to the fight. Oh, you know, Donald Trump's going to be there. Donald Trump Jr. is going to be there. There isn't that energy here. And so that aspect of it just doesn't work. And he kind of has to go to whatever conventional old lines he's been using throwing those out there.

For Usman, like I said, he hates the guy, but he's already beaten him once. So there's just not that inclination to need to talk trash. He said before their first fight, listen, we can go back and forth all we want. People can call me cringy all you want. I'm going to show you what the real deal is in the cage. And he already did. So what more is there to say for him other than again? headline another card, get another big paycheck, and possibly get another win over his biggest rival.

So it doesn't surprise me at all that we're not seeing like a revival of their past, you know, animosity or that there's new material because there isn't new material. Damon kind of touched upon it. This fight is being made. Other people got knocked out of the way. Dana White liked the first bite. He likes Colby Cumberton. He thinks it'll sell pay-per-views. So other than that, it kind of sells itself and the two guys don't really need to do much.

Damon, what's your prediction for this press conference? Are things going to get a little out of whack? Kind of what we anticipated when this fight was booked? Or do you think it's going to be kind of similar to what we've seen so far? First off, let me apologize. I'm currently bathed in shadows because I live in Ohio where the weather changes every six minutes. So it was sunny. It was sunny when this show started.

Now suddenly it's like dark in here. So welcome to Ohio, folks. Sorry about that. In the fall, it's like what in the morning it was blasting sunny. And now it's like dark and like overcast. So I apologize for that. listen, I mean, it's going to get ugly because Colby can't not make it ugly. I mean, Colby's going to say something, you know, crazy and wild and, you know, try to get headlines and borderline offensive probably.

I mean, that's just Colby. That's what he does. And then Camaro's going to be very even-tempered and not play into it. I mean, I think that's where Camaro really had a huge advantage in the first fight. And even with the Mazwithal fight, he just never gets into the trash talk, you know, even like, into this when you hear Oussman's interviews, he says, I actually have a lot of respect for Colby. He's a great welterway, probably the second best welterweight in the sport. Those are the kind of things you're saying because you don't really care what this guy's going to say. And,

you know, if Camaro was going to be emotionally charged, it would have been the first fight. It's not going to be the rematch because he knocked him out and broke his jaw. You know, what is Colby going to say? What has Colby done since then that's going to trump him, no pun intended, in terms of, in terms of the fight. I mean, he hasn't. There's nothing we've seen from Colby since that first fight to convince you that he's going to be so much better in the rematch. So Colby will say crazy stuff. He'll try to get under Camaro's skin. He'll probably say some offensive things. He'll probably talk about Chimaeb and he'll talk about Gilbert Burns and he'll talk about Street Judas and he'll do all the greatest hits of Colby.

And everyone will kind of, you know, raise their eyebrows and shake their heads and Camaro will probably smile and laugh it off. And that's what it's going to be. Colby's a talker. And listen, And does Colby say some funny things from time to time? Like, a lion's saying never does. It's just, I feel like he, I feel like he's run out of material. And as AK said, he doesn't have the, uh, the Trump factor kind of backing him right now. And what's he going to say about the fight? I mean, I just, even his, even his, even his excuses about, well, they stopped it early.

When, when should they have stopped? When he snapped the other side of your jaw? Like, when should they have stopped the fight? Like, come on now, you know, and complaining about Mark Goddard, who is, you know, one of the best referees in the game. I mean, listen, if you want to, if you want to say he was being referee by whatever that guy's name was last weekend, maybe then you could say, although in that case, he probably would have let Colby's jaw get shattered like eight places before the fight would have been stopped. But, you know, I think this is going to be Colby trying to get attention, trying to get the spotlight. He's going to make some wild headlines because he always does.

But at the end of the day, I don't think it's going to rattle Usman. And I think the result's going to be the same on Saturday night and still Kamar Usman champion. Interesting matchup. Lucas Winston's so, so good. Colby's a gamer. A bit of a mystery, like I said. I'm intrigued, say the least. But let's dive into some of the other storylines from this Saturday.

The point for round three goes to, I don't know if it's the haircut or the birthday, the wisdom. I don't know. But you sound like you could narrate feature films, A.K. the way you're sounding today. You're confident. You're feeling.

So you get the point. It's two to one. Oh, stop it, my best friend. Oh, I shouldn't call you that. And we're doing that. Oh, no, this is exposed to the integrity of the game. Sorry, I apologize. I mean, impartial judgment.

I broke K-Faib. Yeah, so there's no way to get in this point, but unless something happened. Unless it really goes truly dark in Damon's little studio, I don't know, A.K. But let's talk real quick about a couple of the storylines. Before that fight happens, we got Nami Unis versus Wayley 2 for the Straway title. And again, outside of Dana White, this didn't seem like a fight anybody had been clamoring for the way the first one ended. Carlos Spars' last performance, all of that into play. but here we are. Damon, we're just two nights away. Rose is always fascinating. She's so fun to watch in there.

Zhang Wei Lee storyline moving camp to Arizona, working with Captain Eric Albarsine, Henry Suhudo, and others. So a nice little interesting wrinkle. Has this one gotten more interesting? Has this one grown on you since it was booked? No, not really. I mean, I like that Zhang Wei kind of changed up her training and started working with Triple C and his coaches. I like that. For the first time in her career, she's sparring with women, which she had never done before, which is really interesting to me.

I mean, of course, there's a benefit in training with men, but I think, you know, the speed and the dexterity things you're not going to see from, let's say, 135 or 145-pound male fighter. I think you need that, especially when you're fighting someone

as talented as Rose. You need those kind of sparring partners. So I think all those things are good. But I'm just not sure we, I mean, I don't know what's changed between the last fight. this one to make me believe that, you know, Rose isn't going to win. I mean, you know, again, this kind of goes back to the Colby Covington thing.

If Jean-Weillie had gone out there and beaten Yowana in a rematch or beating a Carlos Parza or beating, you know, whoever, anybody in that, you know, Marina Rodriguez, any of those fighters, you could say, oh, wow, you know, she's back, she's proven she's back and she's earned this title shot. But, you know, she lost whatever it was, like six, seven months ago. She got knocked out in 80 seconds. And I think this is going to be a better fight. I think she'll stick around longer.

I think she's going to learn from her mistakes and come back better. But I just think ultimately, Rose is the better fighter. And I think sometimes you need that break. You need that mental break to come back from a loss like that. You know, it's not like the Yawanna and Zhang Wei fight, which is a five-round battle of war. And I think that took something away from her. I think everybody loses a piece of their soul when you go through a fight like that.

Yawanna coming out, if I can just say, I feel like I got robbed. I should have won that fight. and John Wiley can say, well, I did win the fight, but it was a great fight. What can she say about the Rose fight? She got caught with a head kick that was planned. It wasn't like a crazy moment where she just got caught. Rose saw tendencies in her game to set up the head kick, and she had kicked her.

I think Zhang would have benefited from getting another win to kind of get her confidence back, to kind of build herself back into it, the change in training camps, the fact that she did get me so dominantly the last time. I just have a hard time seeing her win this fight. I'm a big believer in Rose Namibunis. I think she is the best charway in the world. And, you know, I mean, listen, it will be, I can't imagine it going any, you know, that quickly again. So, of course, I think it'll probably end up being a better fight.

But I don't think the results really going to change that much. I just haven't, again, I have no proof, none, that the Zhang Wei has fixed what was wrong the last time that showed the setups that allowed Rose to head kick her the first round. I'm not convinced that anything changes in this one, except it goes a little longer. A.K., is this one grown on you at all? I know we were big champions of Carlos Sparzar and onto the next one getting the shot. She didn't. We get this rematch. I don't think it's very surprising that we get this rematch based on Dana White saying what he was saying in the buildup to this fight being announced.

But has it grown on you at all? Like, are you excited for it? This is bullcrap. Carlos Parza should be fighting for the UFC Strava title again. She should be getting her rematch with Rose Nama Tunis. It's fine. Look, it's not happening. We can't dwell on it.

Hopefully, when it's all said and done, she does get the winner of this fight. And we're just, again, much like with Glover getting skipped over for, you know, Israel, Adesania, we're just kind of looking at it as a footnote. I shouldn't say a footnote. That's probably, if I was a little big in the footnote, but we're looking at it as, you know, another part of this story and not some tragedy that a deserving challenger did not. get their teloshot. So it's hard. I mean, honestly, it's really difficult for me to get super excited for this, which is crazy because I think we all agree, this is the number one and number

two straw weights in the world. Now, yes, we did just see them fight, but like, I don't know if we're jaded as fight fans, where it's like, where we, you know, you get to see the, I think clearly the two best strawways in the world fight again. And it's hard to get excited about it. It might not be our fault. Of course, it's the surplus of events. Again, the fact that it is immediate. yet I almost keep forgetting that this fight was happening on this card. I kept thinking, like, isn't it like 269 or 270? Isn't it somewhere down the road? So that kind of shows you, maybe it's because they put two rematches on the same card.

It kind of garbled in my mind. But I'll certainly make a case for it because, like I said, this is the two best. This is why we watch fighting. You want to see the best fight the best. Yeah, we saw the best already beat the second best with a head kick in about less than 90 seconds. So that sucked. And theoretically, you'd want the loser of that fight. to work their way back to a teleshot

and would be much more excited. But as it is, if you're a fan of Rose Namibunis, if you're a fan of Zhang Wei Li, if you felt like you didn't get your money's worth in that first fight, which I think a lot of people didn't, unless you're a fan of Rose where you definitely got your money's worth and probably loved everything about that fight, then you probably don't have too much of an issue with them fighting again.

It's going to happen someday. Why not now, other than the fact, there are other people who deserve the title shot instead. So as far as just... She's the least. It's very jarring. So as far as just seeing the best, the best, it's great. I do think go different.

But I won't count out, but I won't count out a Jean-Wea Lee win because we saw so little of them competing against each other. And again, that's to Namedonis's credit. It's her skill that put that fight away. It's not like some random shot she landed. But anybody, anybody can get caught by a good strike or get caught by a perfect strike. That's what happened for Rose. She threw that perfect strike. She is the best in the world.

She proved it with that. but every fight is different. Before that fight, Zhang Wei Li was friggin untouchable. So I think her losing one fight in such a bad fashion does not change that. So I do think there is reason, despite everything I just said, there is reason to be hyped about it

because I think it will be a much more exciting fight than the first one. And Zhang Wei absolutely can win. I just want to say that he said she's untouchable. So the Yohanna fight didn't happen? She didn't get touched up in that fight? That didn't happen? She got touched a few times. She got touched.

Well, she's not untouchable. She got touched a handful of times. She still won. She still won. Arguably she won. She did get touched. She wasn't untouchable. She got touched up.

There was a couple of good significant strikes in there that landed, I think. I think if you look at face. I'm just saying, you said untouched. She got touched up quite a bit. Untouchable. Untouched would have been a bit strong. Untouched one might have been a bit strong. But I mean, I'm just saying she looked like she certainly looked like she couldn't

lose. Let me put it that way. All right, gentlemen. This is the little back and forth, perfect segue to discuss Justin Gachie versus Michael Chandler, which now kicks off the main card. And this fight is just awesome without stakes. It seems like the big stake here, especially for Justin Gachie, is if he wins, he gets a title shot and that is so well deserved and that's probably what should happen.

But, Damon, let me ask you this. If that is the case, if Justin Gachie goes out there and beats Michael Chandler on Saturday, like the odds makers think he will, like a lot of people I've spoken to think he will. I think both of you kind of feel that way you talked about it already. What happens with Michael Chandler? Because when the UFC signed this guy, they put the promotional push to this man. He was the backup fighter for the Habib Justin Gaheci fight. And he fights Dan Hooker gets the big win, gets thrust into a title shot right after that,

loses in one of the best fights of the year, one of the most underrated and under the radar, should be talked about way more for fights of the year and things like that. But what does that mean for Michael Chandler if he goes on and loses to just a judge? Justin Gagee. It means he just lost two of the best three lightweights in the world. It really doesn't, I don't, unless he goes out there and gets sparked in like 45 seconds, which when you're fighting Justin Gachie is surely a possibility. But I don't think it really hurts.

I mean, look what just. I mean, we're talking about this after Justin Gachie went through this. I mean, Justin Gagee lost to Eddie Alvarez and Dustin Porre. Guess what? He then went on an incredible run and got a title shot against Kibed Narakabedov. And now here he is again, you know, back in the, in the title hunt. a win over Michael Chandler should get him a title shot. Chandler's in the same boat here.

If he loses to Gaichi, there's no shame in that. And, you know, let's not forget, he almost beat Charles Oliver. He had him badly, badly hurting that first round. And then he made a mistake in the second. And Oliver caught him and finished him. And again, kudos to Charles Oliver for doing his job. But I don't think this, again, unless he goes out there and just gets completely obliterated in 30 seconds and just has no account for himself whatsoever in this fight,

which I have a hard time believing that's just not who Michael Chandler is. When Michael Chandler has typically lost outside of, let's say, the Will Brooks rematch, he's always gone in there and at least put on a show, even in, even a defeat he's put on a show. I have a hard time believing it's going to be that kind of fight. So if he does lose to Justin Gaichy, okay, well, yeah, it's definitely not great. I mean, he's going to be one and two in the promotion. But again, Gaichie, I believe, started one and two in the UFC or one and two and two. I can't read the exact record when he lost to Dustin.

But you can bounce back from that. Who's going to say if Michael Chandler goes out there and loses in a fight of the night to Justin Gachie, who's going to say we don't want to see him fight, you know, see him fight another top rank lightweight down the road? Who wouldn't watch him fight some of the other guys who are clamoring for that big spot, for that big opportunity, like a guy like Islam Akachev or a guy like Benildare Ush or whoever it is? So will it hurt him? Sure.

He'll be knocked that much further back from title contention, but he can bounce back from it. Justin Gachie is the prime example of that. He bounced back from two bad losses and came back and got the title shot and maybe staring down a second one. So it would be bad because you don't want to go one and two in the promotion, but it's not devastating because he lost to the current champion and who would probably be the new number one contender.

And there's still a million fights out there for him at lightweight that everyone, including you, me and AK and everybody else listen to, the show would come back and say, oh, man, I can't wait to see Chandler in that fight, because that's the kind of guy Michael Chandler is. You agree with that, AK, that a loss stings, but it doesn't really put them too far out of the conversation. I don't think he's going to put him too far out either, but who knows? Promotion put a lot into this guy and one and two star.

What do you think? The UFC likes Michael Chandler, maybe as much as they've ever liked anyone that they brought over from another promotion, maybe not quite a Ronda Rousey level as far as how invested they are on him, but man, we've never seen a guy get that kind of pre-fight video package, you know, instant championship reserve, then instant vacant title shot. It's incredibly difficult to win over Dana White

and that you've seen the way that Michael Chandler did before even stepping foot into the Octagon once. So, yeah, he'll be in good standing. The real issue is, as I said before, and David even mentioned it, if he loses, I think he's fighting Islam Makachev next. and I think Islam-Makhachev beats him and I think Islam-Makachev might beat him badly.

So now, let's say this is a war on Saturday, it's a good fight. So now he'll be coming off a loss to the champion, or sorry, the current champion, Charles Olivera, which was a good fight, and then possibly another loss to Gatchi in a good fight, and then a loss to Machachev, which I think if he loses, I think it'll be in a bad way. So then that's three straight losses.

Now, again, that doesn't take you out, especially if you're liked by the UFC. But boy, in the eyes of the fans, especially in the division like lightweight that is not waiting for anybody. If you lose three street fights, even if it's to three of the top eight 155ers in the world, that's a long mountain to climb back up. I mean, you could still be in there. You could still be in the top 10, getting big fights.

But getting back to a title shot, it is not entirely impossible that Michael Chandler's fight with Charles Alvara is the only time that he ever fights for the UFC title. I would surprise me, but in this scenario that I'm kind of playing out here, if he loses to Makachev, if he ends up having, sorry, he's losing the Gagee and has to fight Makachev and lose to him as well, it is going to hurt Michael Chandler or not, not to the point where he's like released or anything

or doesn't keep getting big fights, but at the point where he may not be viewed by the fans and at some point by the organization as a UFC championship material. All right. Last thing. One minute or less, AK. What's the low-key bangor on this card? What's the under the radar fight that could steal the show? I absolutely love It's amazing

Al Iquinta Bobby Green These two I believe We're matched up to fight before I've been calling for the On our matchmaking show Mike I want to these two fights so badly A lot of the listeners have as well A lot of listeners readers fans

stylistically it's great Two veterans two good strikers Two guys at least Bobby Green He's gonna definitely be talking a lot In the middle of the fight And probably get the best out of Aliaquinta It's great to do raging out back in action I know a lot of people just keep asking

Where has he been So that's going to be on the preliminary card. And I think a huge New York crowd going to be behind Reginald, that's going to have just an electrifying atmosphere easily could have been on the main card. So if that qualifies as a sleeper, man, that is definitely the sleeper of the night. Damien, what's yours? You know, off two losses, I still have a lot of hope in this guy. But Edmund Chabazzia against Nazardine Amav is a great fight.

Emavov coming off a knockout over Ian Hinesh. Again, they're doing, they're not giving. I've been a walkover fight to get him back in the wind column after losing to Brunson and Jack Hermanson. But I still have a big believer. Edmund is what, 24 years old, 25, super young kid. I refuse to give up on him after two losses. And I'm Evov's a beast.

I mean, Embovon looked great in his last fight. So I think that is a low-key-banger and a potential kind of show-stealer leading into what I think we all assume is going to steal the show with Justin Gagie and Michael Chandler. But I really like that fight. two good strikers. I think this is a much more favorable matchup for Edmund than his last two fights. And I really like this one. I think that's got fireworks written all over it.

You're both wrong. It's John Valante versus Chris Barnett. And now, hold on. Hold on. Hold on, Mike. With the added wrinkle. He's fighting Todd Duffy. All right.

Stop lying about this opponent, these guys. He's fighting Todd Duffy. If you didn't see yesterday, if you didn't see yesterday, if you You didn't see it yesterday. Somebody changed UFC 268 on Wikipedia yesterday, and it said U.S. 268, Volante versus Duffy was the name of the event for like an hour. So it's Todd Duffy. Stop lying about who he's fighting.

That was you. That person was you who did that. Don't say somebody did it. Well, whoever it was, it is John, no matter who he's fighting. And it appears it will be John Valante's final fight. So there you go. He told Newsday that this is it. So he'll make the walk one last time in his home crowd and should be a fun one with Chris Barnett,

who's typically in fun fights. So there we go. We move on, but do we move on? The point for round four goes to there's light back in the studio and Damon Martin has tied the score. You know what that means. It means it is time for the knockout round. The tension, you can cut it with a knife right now. one question

we'll decide it all each of these wonderful participants will have one minute to answer the question they will have the same question no tom foolery no craziness

just one question one minute to answer once that is done with the help of our live studio audience right now E Casey Leiden the judge the jury the executive producer makes his long away to return to the judge's seat

and he will announce officially the winner of the first BTL tournament matchup that will move on to the semifinals and one step closer to the most coveted title in MMA media. Now, before the show began, I put both names in a random name generator

that was free of cost. Hashtag saving the company money. And Damon Martin was the name chosen. So, Damon, you have the option. Do you want to go first, set the table, maybe lower the boom, so to speak, on the birthday boy? Or do you want to give AK

what he so desperately wants to go first? I will, I will, I will go first. What? Let the birthday boy go second. Wow. What? That is smart. Damon has been watching the show.

He knows that, man, A.K. thrives on going first. Time out. Time out. How many timeouts do we get, Mike? How many timeouts do we get in the tournament? None. No timeouts. No timeouts in fighting.

No timeouts in BTL. I always go first. Well, not this time, A.K. Now Damon goes first. And you may have noticed, and probably some people have commented. We talked about Glover's win. We talked about Piotr Yon's win.

We talked about Islam Makachef's win. But the MVP of the night, we have not talked about. We have talked about Hamzaa Shamaev. We will talk about Hamzaa Shemayev right now, who as of yesterday when it was released, is the new number 10 ranked welterweight in MMA fighting's global rankings. The only rankings that matter in the sport in the world.

So the question is, Damon, it's very simple. after this win over Li Jing Liang, you are the matchmaker right now. What is the best fight to make for Hamzat Shamiyev? Hamzat Shemayev versus blank. One minute on the clock. Where do we go with Boers? Your time starts now. There's a lot of options for Hamzat Shamaev right now.

I think much like I said earlier with Islam, he needs that marquee win. I think the potential is there. I think he's great. I think the matchup to make for Hamzat Shamaa right now is a guy who's kind of stuck in limbo in his own right right now, and that is Gilbert Burns. Gilbert is one of the best lightweights in the world. We all know that, but he just lost to Kamar Usman. He had a less than super exciting fight with Wonderboy.

No shame in having a less than exciting fight against the guy like Wonderboy is super tough. But Gilbert's kind of stuck in no man's land right now unless Colby Covington can beat Kamar Usman. He's not going to get the rematch with Kamar right away. And listen, there's no better way to get shine or to get back to a title shot right now than to go through the most talked about, the most hyped prospect in our sport, then going through Comza Chimaya.

So I think Chimaya versus Gilbert Burns as a co-main event or a main event on a big fight card would be great. I think that is the fight to make. And then at that point, we can crown or not crown, Chimaiab is the next big thing at Weltsch planes. Wow, hitting the post and everything. Nicely done, Damon.

His radio background shining through. AK, you're in unfamiliar territory going seconds, but you did get to hear Damon's answer. Hamza Chimayev versus Blank. We've seen Dana White pushing for the Nate Diaz fight. We're seeing all these different ideas thrown around. We've seen millions of them on to the next one. But we've had some time.

We've heard some other things. We've heard from some other fighters since his win over Lieging Liang. Hamza Atchamaya versus blank. One minute on the clock. Go. Hamza Shemaya versus Kamaru Usman. It's time. It's time.

time. And here's why. I've talked about this already. So I'm sorry for anyone's heard me going this rant before. Hamza obviously wants this. He said he wants to fight all the contenders, but if they came to him with the champion, he'd be like, I will each champion in a second. So there's no pushback there. Kamaro should he get past Colby Cumbington again, which again, not guaranteed, but should he do so? Hamzaat, to me, presents the most dangerous opponent to potentially take his title in the future. I know when, might be next year, and maybe two years ago. It could be Kamar retires and never fight him.

That's an option for Kamar. People are saying the reason he's been talking about doing stuff outside of MMA, one reason is he doesn't want to fight Shemaya. But if he does want to have that name on his resume, now is the time. So though Kamarro has kind of downplayed any Shamaa talk this week, should he get past Kumbington. Kamaru should do the right thing, call him out,

make this fight happen, get him before he reaches full strength. Kamaru Usman. Wow. Just throw him into a title fight. That is a very interesting point. I did it. It was a very interesting point. If you're going to take on the man,

you should probably take him on now before he gets even better and gets a little more dangerous. So we're going to let the votes come in from the live studio audience, give the judge something to think about. In the meantime, in around 42 minutes or so, head to MAAfighting.com for the press conference.

Go right on the website. Watch the video embedded in the website and check out the tomfoolery that we will certainly be seeing between Kamara Usman and Colby Covington. We will be live tomorrow morning for the Wayin Show, AKs. It is AK's birthday after all. So a special birthday edition of the Wayin show tomorrow morning from New York. Then we'll have a preview show.

We'll have the pre-fight Q&A. We'll have the post-fight show. On to the next one Sunday, so much. And if you haven't done so, I highly recommend because I listen to it this morning. Go into the podcast network and listen to the new edition of the MMA Fighting Global Ranking Show. a lot of fun. Damon and Jed and AK had a little battle and Sean was trying to referee and it's all sorts of fun to go check that out. So I think I've stalled enough. We now turn it over to the judge of the jury, the executive producer, E. Casey lied in to make this all-important decision. Casey, it's been a while, man. You might be a little rusty, but you've heard the arguments, you've heard from the peeps. Who's moving on in the most famous tournament in MMA media history? First of all, it's good to be back, gentlemen.

Great competition. Great. Just two fine competitors. You both went with two answers. I didn't really expect. I'm kind of surprised with both answers. But I have made a decision. Your winner is, I like to go big or go home.

Your birthday boy, A.K. Lee. Alexander Kay Lee. I won it. I won it between the lakes. I'm going to do my best Colby Covington impression. This election was rigged. This was rigged. Oh, my God.

Election was rigged. I want a recount. Where's the recount? A.K.'s birthday. He got a haircut, and he's wearing the Tiger Woods Sunday red shirt to put things away, to get the big win. Oh, wow. A.K. A lot of people thought you.

You were the, I thought you were the dark horse to win this thing, A, A.K. Even though the record hasn't shown a lot, you've improved vastly throughout these shows. You've performed well in big situations. And here we are with the victory. 30 seconds. Oh, gosh. Well, look, you already promoted the rankings. People, please check out the rankings that run out this week.

Global rankings, pound-for-pound rankings. Love all the feedback you guys been giving. That's not true. I've hated some of it, but I've loved most of it. So please go listen to that guys on the M-A-fighting podcast network, M-Afighting.com. And thank you, Damon. Damon is the kind of man. He makes you step up your game.

His bane-like presence, you know, it activated the fight or flight in me. Thankfully, flight and not flight today. Next time, it could be a different story. So thank you, Damon. A good man, a great reporter. And I cannot wait to fight you again someday on BTL. Damon, I just immediately got a text from the BTL Championship Committee,

a group text who have said, listen, I've seen the names that are in this tournament. Some can be a little flaky. Some can be a little busy. So they want to offer you the first alternate spot la Daniel Cormier. What do you think? Much like the great D.C.,

I will gladly step back in if need be and put a pummeling down on somebody like he did Josh Barnett once upon a time. Or I guess at the time, Bigfoot Silva. But yeah, whoever happens, I will gladly step in and play that role. D.C., I'm happy to play the role.

Rola D.C. in this tournament. All right. Well, this is how the first matchup went. Wait and see how the rest of it goes. We got a big one next week. Jose Youngs returns to the BTL virtual cage to take on who many believe, someone who many believe is the greatest to ever compete in this game. Phoenix Carnivali returns to face Jose Youngs.

What a matchup that's going to be live next week on BTL. We're out of here. First game is in the books. Head on over to M.A.Fighting.com at 5 o'clock for the U.S. C-268 press conference and join us tomorrow morning for the live way-in show. Jose Young's will be representing in New York City ahead of this big event on Saturday. For Damon, for AK, for Casey Liden on the Ons and Twos, I am Mike Keck. Thank you for watching Between the Links.

See you next week. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links and MMA Fighting Production on the Vox Media Network. Happy birthday, AK. My heart is full. My heart is full. to the Vox Media Podcast Network.