MMA Fighting - BTL | Usman vs. Edwards, UFC 278, Marlon Vera's Ceiling, Shane Burgos To PFL, More

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

Kamaru Usman and Leon Edwards will battle it out in the main event of UFC 278. While Usman is a big favorite, is the fight closer on paper than the odds suggest. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the UFC welterweight title fight this Saturday in Salt Lake City and what is at stake for both fighters outside of the championship belt. In addition, topics include the middleweight co-main event between Paulo Costa and Luke Rockhold, José Aldo vs. Merab Dvalishvili, Marlon Vera's big win over Dominick Cruz at UFC San Diego and where both fighters go from here, Shane Burgos signing with the PFL, the BKFC headliner between Mike Perry and Michael Page, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and UFC fighter Evan Elder. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed K. Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Evan Elder: @ElderEvan Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. Your host, Ma! The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you back. to a brand new edition of Between the Links. We are live. We're back in video form this week. We're on the eve of the eve of UFC 278 going down in Salt Lake City this Saturday. A lot going on this weekend in combat sports. A lot has happened since we last spoke on this program. So let's talk about it with the panel. First, let us introduce Mr. No Gray area, the winningest player in the

history of the show, the man who cut an unforgettable Michael Charles. Chandler promo to win the show a couple of weeks ago from No Betts Bard, Dan, they were good at MMAfighting.com. Jed Bishu. Hello, sir. Your intros are getting longer and longer, my man. I'm just racking up titles, baby. Look, if I go down, if that's what I'm remembered for, the Michael Chandler promo,

I'll be a little sad because I think I've had some other really good efforts. But that was probably the best thing I've done in some time on this show, so I'm okay with it. That was amazing. There's no chance you could lose after that promo. So his opponent today, and let me just say this, I put out feelers to multiple managers in the MMA space because I wanted a fighter to join the panel this week. Who has what it takes?

Which fighter has the gusto to take on Jedmishu in this virtual arena we have here? And Michael Chandler didn't want that smoke. Michael Chandler didn't want the smoke, but one man did step up to the plate. He is a member. of the UFC's lightweight division. I know his debut was at Walterweight.

So I don't know, maybe we'll get an official answer to this. But today, he puts the analyst hat on. Let us welcome in Evan Elder to the program. Evan, welcome. How are you, sir? I'm doing well. Thank you guys for having me. So are you UFC lightweight Evan Elder or UFC Walterweight Evan Elder?

I know most of your career is at lightweight, but. Yeah, definitely lightweight. I just stepped up a couple days notice. so I didn't want to have to cut the weight, cut to 55. So took the fight at well to weight. But definitely going back to my original weight class of light weight. There we go. So let's get into this thing.

Let us begin with this past weekend. And Marlon Vera's sort of coming out party in a lot of ways. It was a tough first couple of rounds for Cheeto Vera. As it typically goes for him in his career, as he took on Dominic Cruz in the main event of UFC San Diego. He got some momentum. in the third round in the main event fight and then boom, big head kick turns the lights out

and Marlon Vera gets yet another victory. Jed, we'll begin with you since you were not on the post fight show after the event. What was your reaction to Cheeto Vera's win, the performance, the finish, the whole nine? That dude's going to be a problem, man. That was my reaction because that's just the truth. I guess that's it.

Like, Cheeto is one of those dudes who doesn't mind losing the battle if he's going to win the war. And I thought Dominic Cruz did way better than I thought. Like I thought he might be tricky for a little bit, but that at the end of the day, he's just too old. He's too far past it. But he, you know, like you said for two rounds, was really doing very well.

And even in that third round, fine. But it just didn't matter at the end of the day. Because Marlon Verra is a finisher par excellence. Like there aren't a lot of dudes who do it like him. And so unless you're going to be like a total defensive genius like Jose Aldo, going to have bad time. And like, I know, honestly, one of the first things I thought, and I think about every fight of this Malamara run. And it's dumb because I shouldn't think this. But like, that's just how the MMA community has warped my brain, I guess.

For like, one of the first things I thought was like, and people still think this dude beating Sean O'Malley was a fluke. Like, he would bundle Sean. on O'Malley in a rematch. He's just that guy. Like, he is going to fight for a title one day. I'm not sure he's going to win it, but he's a problem, and he's incredibly fun to watch fight. Evan, what did you think?

Because my first reaction was, and it was almost the same reaction I had after the Rob Fawn fight, is this dude is a zombie. You can hit him a million times, and it doesn't even affect him. The man doesn't even look like he fights. He shows up to these press conferences, doesn't even have a blemish on his face, no marks, no nothing. It doesn't even look like, it's like he's a guest fighter

when he shows up to these press conferences. Even though he gets hit a bunch, it shows nothing. So what did you think of yet another fantastic performance? The man is just crushing it right now. Oh, man, he's spectacular. Man, when he landed that head kick,

when Dominic fell, I was like, oh my gosh, I was scared for Dominic's life. I mean, it was a rough one. You know, I'm glad to see he's okay. But, yeah, Cheeto is a absolute problem, you know, especially coming from like a fighter standpoint, just, you know, going back and analyzing the fight, his eyes, his comfortability, his capability of switching stances. He's got power from, from Orthodox and South Paul. He's constantly making reads.

Like, that's the most impressive thing is I think his ability to stay calm under pressure. And you can tell he's always setting stuff up, you know, so going in, I think in the third round, he really started seeing how much Dom was leading one way to one way or the other when he was exiting. and he threw a one three into a real lake roundhouse, almost caught him in the third round with it. And then he switched up and did it to the other side. He dropped him with a jab in the fourth round. And now we had him really worried about that left hand, and he started slipping outside that lead hand a lot.

And I mean, it calls him a lean straight into that high kick, man. It was nice. But, yeah, Cheeto is, he's an absolute monster. And, you know, I think he's definitely going to be fighting for the title soon. So this band and weight division, Evan, is just, wild right now. There's a lot happening. We got the title fight coming up in October between Al Jemaine Sterling and T.J. Dillashah. We got Piotr-Jan, shot O'Malley, fighting on the same card. Jose Aldo is fighting Marab de Walsh, really, this Saturday, a UFC 278. What does this win,

in your opinion, do for Cheeto Vera? Like, what's this next move? How do you think this shakes out? You know, I think there's a lot of unanswered questions. I think we're going to have to wait and see how a lot of things unfold. You know, we have the Marab and Aldo fight. coming up, you know, we're obviously going to have to see what happens there because Marab is not going to fight Al Jermaine. So, you know, if he does win, I think it probably puts him a little bit closer, you know, just out of technicality just because he's not going to, you know, he's not going to be fighting Aldo or Aljo.

So, but, you know, of all the wins, I think he's more, I think he deserves a shot more. And then like you were saying, Peter Jan and Sean O'Malley, you know, we'll have to see how that unfolds. I think Peter Yan should take that, but who knows, man? I mean, that's Sean O'Malley is, he's, I know, I think a lot of people discredit him because he's got such a big, kind of like a hype train

because of all the craziness behind him, you know, he's super, super flashy. But he's, he's legitimately really good, man. He's legitimately, really good. He's got really good, hard-to-read kicks. He's super long and tall for the weight division.

and, you know, so he poses a lot of problems. Man, that 135 divisions fricking stack, you know, as is every division in the UFC. But especially 35, man, it's, it's, I'm excited to see the way things unfold. But I think, I think more than likely Cheeto is probably going to have to wait, at least, you know, another fight, probably get another, another fight before he gets to the title. But, you know, no matter what, I'm excited to see how all of the plays out because I think 80 matchup you make in the top, you know, you know, top five or ten is going to be freaking fireworks yeah a lot of congestion here jed what's next from our own buyer is this a wait and see is there somebody that that stands out right now the shot o'malley fight is one of those sort of back pocket fights they can go to that well whenever they need to if they

need it for like a number one contender fight they can just go to it if they just need to fill a a big spot in a card they can go back to that pretty much anytime they want because the story's there and people will watch that fight so if you got the the the mighty pencil right now. What are we doing with Marlon Vera or is this like Evan said a sort of wait and see thing? You have to wait a little bit. It's really unfortunate is a short answer here because Cheeto wants to stay active, which is great for us, the fans, we get to watch him. Problem is, like this run he has right now could have gotten him a title shot at different points in time, but there's just so much happening right in the mix at the top of the division that he's probably

third in line, like, based on what shakes out next. Like, some of this is just going to depend on how, like, what that'll breaks, right? Because if Aldo beats Marab and Al Jo retains his title over T.J. Dillashah, they are more than likely going to do Aldo versus Aljo, like that, unless somehow Sean Amali upsets Piotr-Yan, that's the number one. If Peoria Yon loses Sean Amalley, Sean Amali is getting a title fight. It does not matter what the hell else is going on. That is almost a certainty.

I don't think that's likely to happen. And in that case, then if Dillishaw beats Sterling, they probably give a title shot to Piotr-Yon because they'll do the Yon-Dillershaw thing. There's a little bit of juice there, and the UFC absolutely loves Piotr-Eon, which then leaves Aldo's sort of odd man out of, which sucks ass. So it all is going to break,

but the end result is, Marlon Vera is not going to get a fight, like not going to get a title fight. And unfortunately, I kind of think that any of the people he would fight next to get one are likely to beat him, even though there'll be really fun fights. I think the most likely outcome here is that Aldo gets the next title fight. And then, Cheeto fights Peoria in a title eliminator. And that fight's going to rule, but I do think Peirrean probably beats him. But, you know, no wrong way to dishees his reason. really, it's going to be great any way it goes down.

Yes. And if I'm Cheeto, just poke and prod Henry Sohudo. Just keep doing it over and over again. Because that fight makes so much sense. It does. Henry Sunido isn't going to fight. So why are we talking about it? You said it yourself, Mike.

You said, you said or not, no, you were not going to talk about this man because he ain't for real. He is all gas, just all smoke. He don't want. actual smokes. I don't talk about him. He ain't coming. And he damn sure isn't coming to fight Cheeto Vera.

He'll get the Twitter fingers going. He's not going to fight that man because he wants to fight Dominant Cruz for a title fight or go. He wants a low risk fight against Alexander Volcanovsky because if he loses, there's, it's no downside for him to lose that fight. But the win is it immeasurably high. He ain't going to fight Cheeto Vera, which offers a very little upside and tremendous downside to this greatest.

combat sports athlete of all time thing he's trying to parade about that dude ain't doing it i'm trying to be more positive here about this situation and then i can praise him a little bit because i have not praised him at all since this announcement of a comeback but you mentioned it last thing on this jed what about dominic cruz because like we've talked about he looked good in this one he had success early on obviously a tough way to go out tough video for him to have to go back and watch but he hung with Cheeto for over three rounds, was winning the fight heading into the fourth on all three scorecards.

I saw a lot of crew slander, a lot of crew's negativity after this fight. People were calling for him to retire, which to me seems super egregious, but his road to getting back to a title fight is much further of a journey now, and that's probably putting it lightly. Now what do we do with the former Bannonweight champion?

him. I'm not certain his road back to his title fight is further away just because he's dominant Cruz. I want to be extremely clear. I am a huge dominant Cruz hater. I was slandering that man all leading up to this fight, and I'll continue to do so forever because that's just how I feel. That being said, he is undeniably a darling of the UFC.

He is one of the bigger names in the division. historically, maybe the greatest bantamweight of all time. And so there are options for him. And I think if he gets one or two wins, he is for sure going to call for a title fight because that's just what Dominic Cruz does. And it's possible for him to do so. I think there are two possible answers here.

I think the one that makes the most sense to me. And I don't think that there's a booking here yet. but Frankie Edgar wants to fight at Madison Square Garden and be done with his career. That is the fight that makes the most sense to me. You do it. It's two legends. Frankie even still has a ranking according to the UFC. So like that won't hurt Dom's aspirations in that regard.

You just book that. The other possible here is if T.J. Dillishal loses to Al J. Stirling, go ahead and run that one right on back. And then you've got like those are back pocket fights for them. I think it makes the most sense for where he's at right now, unless the UFC has just shot of him and are going to feed him to, like, Ricky Simone or something, who will just beat the shit out of him.

Evan, what say you? If you have the matchmaking pencil here, Dominic Cruz versus blank, Phil in the blank. Man, I think the Frankie Edgar fight, just like Jed was just saying, is almost a no-brainer right now. I think I do, I feel a little bit, different about, I do think that takes him a little bit further away from the title, this last

loss. And, you know, with him being 37, I believe, you know, he's probably, he's got to be approaching the end of his career, not just because of his age, but, you know, his years in the game due to true legend and is a pioneer. And, man, he did, with that, with all that being said, man, I thought he looked great in that fight. I was very impressed. And he was, I mean, he was definitely up the first two rounds for sure. And he, and he did, and he was, he did, with that, was doing great. You know, even whenever, even when he was getting rocked, you know, he was staying right there on the fight. He wasn't shy away from nothing and then just, you know, got caught bad. You know, I don't think, and I don't think he just got caught. You know, I'm not saying,

Cheeto got lucky by any means, you know, I think he very strategically set that up. But, you know, I think the, I think the Dillishaw fight is definitely sellable, you know, so if Dillishal loses, which is a good, there's a good possibility, I think that's an easy matchup. And that would actually really put him right back in the running for. or, you know, title contention. You know, but right, yeah, those two, you know, those two options are probably, you know, the only two that I think are going to be,

or are the best two anyways, because I do think, unfortunately, a lot of other matchups in the top five, top 10 are going to be rough for Dom. But, you know, with all that being said, you know, he impressed his shit out of me on, you know, whenever he just fought Cheetos. So we'll see.

I would love the Frankie Ed. fight. That's a fight I need to see before either or both men retire. I just don't know if it's going to be too soon after getting brutally knocked out. I mean, it's still three months away, but still, that was a very bad knockout. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. And listen, Cody Garbrand's fighting Ronnie Yaya October 1st. Garbrand comes back and gets a win. Maybe we run that one back too. I mean, he does have some options. But, I mean, if, Jed? But what if Ronnie Yaya knocks how Cody Garbrandt. Like, you're coming on the post-fight show because I would love to be the best.

It'll be the funniest thing that would ever happen in this sport if Ronnie Ayah knocks out Cody Gar-brandt. Well, then there you go. Then Ronnie Ayah could fight Dominic Cruz and who would want to watch that? Do you remember when Cody Garberant was going to fight Davis and Figurato? Jesus, that was going to be the most fun I've ever had watching a fist fight. Just get launched to the moon. It would have been hilarious.

Well, listen, UFC San Diego was a lot of fun. The battle of the Yasmin's was tremendous. Nate Landwehr, David Onama, absolutely insane. We saw some good finishes, a good card. But the UFC is back on pay-per-view on Saturday, and that's where we're going to be heading for a little bit. The point for round one goes to the fighter. Evan Elder on the board, it's one to nothing.

Like we get the fighters. Generous. Very generous. You obviously haven't watched the show very long. You know that these points. Ultimately, at the end of the day, don't meet anything. It all comes down to the very end.

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Corma, minie, regrouped for a better quality of price, online on c4.ca or in magazine. That's right. Let's go to UFC 278, Salt Lake City, Utah. This Saturday, Walterweight title on the line,

Kamar Usman, defends against Leon Edwards. It's been actually really interesting seeing and hearing the views on this fight, Evan, because I host a morning show on the M.A. Fighting Twitter Spaces, and a lot of people who have called in this week feel that not only does Leon Edwards have a chance to win this fight,

but he is a very good chance to win this fight, which is kind of shocking to me, and we'll talk about some of the intangibles as to why in a moment, but I guess you're right off the bat, how much of a chance are you giving Leon Edwards in this fight and why? I mean, I'm definitely not counting up. out. You know, his last fight with the law, man, he looked phenomenal.

I really wish, I'm sorry, not his last fight, fought Nate last, but recent fight, he looked phenomenal, man. And I was really, I really, really wish that didn't end so unfortunately with the eye poke. And it was bad, I mean, it was a bad eye poke and, you know, and the law was a freaking warrior, man. He would have fought. He would have, he would have, a dude still wanted a fight with no eye, I'm sure. But that would have really tested or gave me.

a little more insight on how well he's going to do to start, you know, to defend the takedowns Uzman, because I think that's ultimately what Uzman's going to avert to early on, just in my opinion, because I think that Leon has an advantage in the speed department and in the length. So I think that right off the bat, he might be able to pose a little bit of a problem with, with Camaro striking. So I think Camaro is going to try to close the distance, clinch with him. watch for those elbows, those short-tied elbows that Leon's so good at timing and, you know, hidden off, uh, hidden off the, the, the, the brakes. Um, but if he can grapple him up for a round or two, I think Camaro is the much mentally stronger, more, more consistent fighter as the fight

will go on. Uh, and I think that as the longer the fight goes, the more it plays into Uzman's favor. So, I mean, I think, man, Uzman, in my opinion, he's, uh, he's a pound for pound number one for a reason, man. I think the biggest thing that separates him more than anybody. You know, the reason that man is who he is, is his mind. His, you know, obviously he's got all the technical skills, but that dude's mind is different. You know, you know, it's amazing is that, you know, it's so easy to have an off night in the sport.

You know, you come out, you're, you know, whether the nerves get to you, you know, the emotions are high, you had a bad weight cut. You know, you had just life going on. throughout fight camp, got stuff got in the way, whatever it may be. It's very easy to have an off night. And I'm sure that Kamara Usman has had an off night in the cage. But that man is, his mind is so strong. He's so different that he is yet to really show it, you know.

And I think that that is really going to be the biggest factor in this fight. If Leon doesn't just clip him and take him out early, which is still, you know, definitely a possibility because especially with the high kicks, if he can come out, I think if Leon comes out just hot and just tries to bring him. in the more he has a chance of catching him, but I think if it goes long at all, I think Camaro is going to pull away. Jed, for longtime viewers of this program

and many of the other great programs on the MA Fighting Network, you have proudly, and I mean proudly, driven that nobody cares about Leon Edwards' monster truck. And you've done this for as long as I have worked with you. They don't. And for a while.

Spot the lie, Mike. Spots a lie. For a while. while you felt like Usman would go on and win this fight and Edwards' title hopes would be in the rearview mirror. However, I did listen to No Betts Bard, at least there was a long show, so I haven't listened to all of it, but I did listen to you guys discuss the main event. And you, like a lot of others that I've spoken with this week, feel that Leon has a pretty good chance to win this fight here. Why do you feel that way? I don't think he has a pretty good chance to win this fight. I think has a chance to win this fight.

A lot of that is me fading Camaro because I've been kind of ready to do that for a while now because it's mostly the intangible stuff, right? So Camar's 35 or 36, not sure which. But he's certainly getting older, especially the light of the weight class, the less you can age gracefully historically. His knees are bad and he's been pretty open about that. and his performances have been worse in all of his recent fights. Colby Covington came out like a house on fire,

but I think everyone just sort of forgets the back half of that fight where Cabaro kind of got beat up by Colby Covington as the fight went down the stretch there. Just because he was so dominant early over Covington, Gilbert Burns obviously dropped him at least once, maybe a couple of times and had him in real trouble. and the Jorge Mastvedal rematch was we all forget because of that was the KO of the year or whatever. But that first round was really competitive.

And I have respect for Jorge Mastradal in general. I don't think he's anywhere close to a top actual well-to-weight in the world. And so that gives me a lot of concern that the Ustman's performances are less the sort of dominant, especially the dominant grappling heavy performances that he had in his whole. rise up, you know? Like, he just hasn't been shooting a lot of takedowns or doing any of that. And against, I think there's some of that's probably a style matchup, right? Like, he doesn't want to go to the ground with Gilbert Burns. He's a Brazilian Institute's a World Champion. And Colby Covington wrestled, like, you just don't wrestle him defensively wrestle. He's a better strike or, etc.

But I don't know, man. Like, I think he needs to do that against Edwards because I think Camaro Ousman can win anywhere this fight goes, I guess is my take on it, because he is the more powerful striker. I think Leon Edwards is a technically superior striker to Camaro, but he also has some, like, huge defensive liabilities at points in time. And the big issue for Edwards is, Edwards can't really hurt people. Like, he's done it sometimes, but he doesn't, he hasn't done it in like 10 years or something. Like, he doesn't have one hit or quitter really hurt you on the feet power and so I don't think he could come out and just try and blow the doors off Usman

because that's not his game. He just wants to kind of out kickbox you. But again, he has defensive liabilities. Like he has lapses. That's why like everyone talks about the Nate Diaz, you know, almost put him away in the last minute.

And that is absolutely true because Leon just sort of, I don't know how to brain fart or whatever and got clocked. Nate was clocking him a lot in the middle section of that fight. He was getting out shot like a ton, but he was having moments where he was landing big shots in the third and fourth round as well. Because sometimes Leon just loses the plot a little bit in the exchanges. If he does it against Kamar Usman, he's going to get obliterated. Usman is not a brilliantly, like a brilliant striker, but he's a very decent one for M.A. He has a very, very solid jab.

He's got a lot of power. And he's really good eyes, really good timing in the space. So I think Ousman can win this on the feet. If he can get the grappling going, it's his to lose. But I do think that if Edwards can fight a really good fight, he is in a good position here because I think the leg kicks can be really effective for him. I think he can jab with Ousman. And I think if he can take this into the later rounds, he can, the leg kicks can start

taking advantage in Ousman, who I feel faded against Colby Covington, even when Colby wasn't pushing a big pace that fight. Like I think Leon can maybe have success there. My fundamental issue here is that I think Leon has to fight close to a perfect fight, and I think Camarra does not have to fight close to a perfect fight to win. And so I think Leon has a chance, but like it's really hard to say that you're going to fight 25 perfect minutes against arguably the best fighter in the world right now. Like that's a really tall task. You guys talked about sort of the technical breakdown and the technical deficiencies between these two guys.

But I want to go back to you, Jed, because a lot of the reasons, why people are telling me that they like Leon Edwards to win this fight is because Usman has a lot going on right now. He has big aspirations in and out of the octagon. He says he wants to be bigger than the rock. He's been talking about moving to 205, landed a cool guest spot in a big movie. He's talked about boxing Canelo Alvarez.

And I need Jed real quick. I'll go to you, Evan. I will definitely get your opinion on this. Let me get Jed's pretty face on here. And there are a lot of people. throughout this bill. Leon Edwards included who feel like Ousman's head essentially just might not be fully in the game here. And when you're locked in a cage with another person, that's bad news. And you talked about he's had knee injuries. He's had the hand injury that's kept him out

since late last year. He's a win away from tying Anderson Silver's Winstreet record. He's looking to keep cementing this legacy that's so important to him. And he feels like he's the best fighter on the planet. It feels like he's the best Walterweight of all time. And if he loses, is on Saturday, Jed, all of that goes away. Every bit of it, everything he's built towards, gone. So to play devil's advocate, Ousman is a competitor, and you've talked a lot about how difficult it is for a long-rearing champion to continue to be a long-reigning champion. And with the success that these guys have comes a little bit of mental warfare.

And he's got Leon biting a little bit, feeling like maybe Ousman's head is not really in the game here. Is there a chance that there is some mental warfare being played by Kamar Usman, some gamesmanship on Usman's part heading into Saturday, maybe making Leon believe that this is going to be a little bit easier of a time than a lot of people thought

it might be. I doubt it just because I don't know what the point and purpose would be because I don't, if you ever talk to Lan Edwards, like that dude fundamentally believes he is the best fighter in the world. Like he, there's not an ounce of question in his soul. And so it's not,

he doesn't need any validation or any thoughts he's going to have easier. Like this is, Leon Edwards knows he is never getting a title fight again. Like this is it. And that's why I say all the time that the hardest thing to do in professional sports is be a long-reaning champion. Like it is, you're getting everybody's best shot every time up.

And even if that dude who's actually doing it is one of the, not even a top 20 all time guy at that weight, doesn't matter. He has spent his whole life focusing on this moment. you're going to get the absolute pinnacle of him. And Leon Edwards knows, without a shadow of a doubt, how long it took him to get here, the fact that he really only got here in some parts,

because he's been very lucky with timing and the UFC didn't just decide to push Hamzat over him instead. He knows that this is it. This is his one shot, and he is going to do everything possible to win this fight. And to speak to Evans' point earlier, I don't give a ton of credence to the Usman's overlooking him thing just because Usman is a very focused guy in that regard.

And I think that he recognizes that this is probably the win that seals everything for him. In a lot of respects, because if he gets this win, he probably doesn't have to fight Hamzot, which would be very helpful for him because I think Hamzot beats him. but yeah I kind of just don't think I think this is just Kamau saying what's in his heart which is yeah man like I'm gonna

this is it I'm gonna focus I'm gonna fight this guy but I have these other aspirations because I think I'm great and we'll see if he gets to do any of them but yeah I don't think his gamesmanship I think it's just him speaking his truth what do you think Evan like how have you

gauge deucement's approach from a fighter's perspective and sort of to Jed's point who has more pressure on them? Is it Usman trying to continue to cement this legacy? Or is it a guy like Leon Edwards who, like Jed said, this is probably it. Like you've worked all this time to get to a title fight. They finally went with you.

If you don't get it done here, you may not get another shot. Yeah, honestly, to that point, I think the more of the pressure would probably, just from this fight alone, you know, I think the pressure would probably be more on Usman just because I feel like, you know, he's a pound for pound, you know, number one fighter in the world. He's trying to submit this legacy, and I feel like he has more to lose, you know, but exactly like Jed was saying, this is probably Leon's only shot.

So, you know, this is it. And for that reason, I think more of the pressure probably is on Leon. But with that being said as well, you know, Leon truly believes that he's the best fighter, best welter way in the world, you know? So who knows how he's carrying that mentally? Because if he really truly believes that, maybe he's not as putting as much pressure on himself as we may think. You know, the same that this is his only shot. Maybe he doesn't care if he loses.

He's willing to work his way back, you know, like even if it takes forever, even though I feel like that's very unlikely. And, you know, it's, I think there's a lot of pressure for both guys. But I don't necessarily, I do think that all the stuff that Usman has going on, man life gets in the way a lot you know it's when you're when you're training i mean it's it's it's always a full-time job you know training two three times a day uh cutting weight i mean it's a lifestyle so if you have a lot of other stuff going on pulling you other directions man it's it's it's difficult you know because it's it's a lot of stuff that people don't realize you know you're not just going to the gym you know i'm going to get my hour workout in you know twice a day it's two

hours out of the day right you know but it's it's it's you're getting there 30 minutes to an early to warm up to prevent injuries. You know, you're staying 30 minutes to an hour after getting some extra reps, extra work, stretching out, you know, to also, you know, do some prehab, prevent injuries from happening. So with that alone, you're there. It's not just a one hour practice. It's a two, three hour practice twice a day. On top of that, you're going home to eat correctly because you got to cut weight. You know, you can't, it's hard to eat out whenever you're trying to cut weight. You know, there's all kinds of freaking everywhere you go, you know, it's, it's very challenging to eat super correct to actually cut weight to what we have to.

So you're most likely going to be going right home or you need to anyways. To eat the correct food, you're probably going to rest in between training. And then super underlooked what a lot of people don't think about is how important rest is. So it's like you need to be getting, you know, eight hours of sleep at night is like a minimum. That's what the average person should be really getting, you know, to properly recover, let alone a full-time professional athlete that's demanding so much out of their body. You know, it's not, it's not crazy to think that, you know, we don't need nine or ten hours for rest some days, you know. So it's a full, it's a full 24-hour job, you know, whenever you incorporate rest and recovery and, you know, warm it up, stuff after practice, obviously the training, the nutrition aspect. Like it's a lifestyle, man.

So it definitely 100% makes things a lot, lot harder whenever. You have a lot of stuff going on in life, you know, and that's life. And to Jed's point, I think it's unbelievably difficult to be a long-rearing champion. Because for one, you have that people are freaking, people have a blueprint. You know, you're the person that everybody's preparing for. And they're, you're the person that they're trying to take out. So, you know, I don't know. I would say both guys have been a.

it's about of pressure on them. I think both of them are freaking handling it well. You know, that's why they're two of the greatest fighters in the world. It's because they're mental capability. But I would say more of the pressure probably lies on oozman as far as how much he has to lose. I don't think that, I think that people expect him to beat Leon. So Leon has less to lose for sure. But, you know, with that being said, Leon might not be able to get another title shot.

so this might be its only chance. Last thing on this before we move on, Evan, if Usman wins and Shemayev wins, true or false, that's the next fight. Yeah, I feel like almost undoubtedly. You know, the freaking, the Tamiyav train is just freaking full steam ahead. You know, nobody's stopping that thing. There's so much hype around them.

And rightfully so, man, that dude is, that dude's earned it. He's a killer. That's a crazy fight. And I do think, I think that's 100%. I don't see any other matchup being made if Usman wins this weekend. Jed, better chance he fights Shemayev if both guys win, or he goes to 205 and fight somebody else? So on the whole 205, too, I get it.

I recognize this is the thing. And cool, good for him. Like, I think it's at least funny gimmick. And maybe not a gimmick because, like, that's a barren wasteland of a division so who the hell knows he could probably do okay there uh i think we're really just overlooking the middleweight's really like truly an option for him because i know he doesn't want to fight israel a disinia but israel disinia has a fight against dudes beating him twice that's coming up and i'm just going to go ahead and say it if

alex beheada obliterates it like just knocks izzie's head off izzie doesn't get a middleweight title fight again i'm sorry you just don't because I know that kickboxing MMA are not the same sports. But at that point, one guy has clearly won the rivalry. I know that there's not the grappling, but Izzy ain't going to shoot a double and jits him on the floor or whatever. He's just getting knocked out again. So at that point, Izzy then, what's he left to do?

Let's say, I guess maybe I'll actually make my move to 205, which then opens the door for our guy, Kamaru, to come up to middleweight and face Alex Beheada. And that is a huge fight. If Bejara knocks out, Izzy, and Oussman's like, I'm going to come up, I'm going to get revenge from my boy. Yeah, you can't grapple for shit. And I'm going to show that to be true. That is, I think, a bigger fight than the Hamzot fight, frankly, like if that goes down.

So I think there's a world where that could be what happens, depending on the timelines that everything breaks. but I will say the most likely scenario here is that we get Usman Chamaev at the end of the year or maybe early next year, which kind of sucks because I think Chamaia is going to beat him and then that takes the Usman Pahedra fight potentially off the board, which would be incredibly fun. More on this card in round three.

That's a bold statement that Usman Pereira would be bigger than Usman Chamaia. Maybe you're right. We'll see. If Bejada beats Izzy, like if they did it right now, it wouldn't be. But if Beheada goes and knocks out Izzy, that dude is that dude is a star star in this sport. And the storyline

you can build behind it, 100% think so. Also, because we're about to go to the point, I do think it's interesting that neither of us mentioned that these two dudes have fought before. And I think that that is actually like I think that in any

of those situations, I always feel like the person who won the first one, like far more than I think Usman's overlooking him because he's doing movies or whatever. I think it's like, Usman already beat this dude convincingly, and Edwards has a chip on his shoulder because of that.

Like, that is far more at play to me than the, he's talking about 205 and Canelo stuff. Fair point. Let's move to the rest of the card. Point for round two goes to, got to go with Jed here. It's one-to-one. Compelling insight on this main event.

So Jed, let's talk about the co-mate events because there is an awful lot going on here. It's becoming the most anticipated fight on the card. The always interesting, Paulo Costa looking for his first win in three years, taking on Luke Rockhold, who returns for the first time in three years and looking for his first win in five years. Both guys making a lot of headlines for stuff outside of this fight. Paulo Costa social media game is just,

incredible, leaves his manager to be reped by his girlfriend. There's questions on whether or not he could even make 186, although he's very confident he will tomorrow morning. And he confirmed yesterday at the media day, last fight on his deal. And now we have Luke Rockhold, who has been very vocal, chastising the UFC, chastising media members, chastising the UFC's business practices. He had a crazy interview with Halani. his media day was the most talked about by far.

How much more interesting is this fight become due to the build to it, especially this week? It's way more interesting now than I thought I would think it was on like Sunday. First, let me start here. You talk about both these dudes are looking for a win. Both of them are looking for an ounce of body fat because this is an all body beautiful matchup right here. Because Paulo Costa is shred. If you have not seen his social media posts, if he can't make 186, there's no way, like, he's either going to or can't because he has nothing to lose here for that. And same for Rockwell.

They are both just absolutely shredded. So I just wanted to start there because respect for what they've accomplished in the gyms beforehand. second uh this fight has gotten oddly more compelling outside of the stuff that they're talking about uh which is i mean that was always at least interesting because paula cost is kind of a headcase and luke rock hold is a headcase might not be the right word um he's something he's something and uh so they're like that always made this a little bit interesting uh i also found it interesting I wrote about it for the site this morning. Both Michael Bisping and Anthony Smith, two gentlemen who don't particularly care for Luke Rockhold,

though I know Bissping and Rockhold have kind of squashed their beef now. Andy Smith still hates a dude. Both of them think he's going to beat Costa, which flies in the face to me of logic, reason, and history. But I can see the argument because, like, I said it on No Bet's Bard. Great podcast. Go check it out earlier this week. And I've said it for years, and I will continue to say it because I genuinely believe it to be true. Luke Rockhold is the most predatory offensive grappler I have ever seen in this sport.

That includes Habibnormegov. That includes, I mean, John Jones back in the day when he would take people down and elbow them in the face. If you watch Luke Rockhold fight every single second that he is on top of a human being, it is dire straits for the guy on bottom. Like it is an animal planet, pride of lions attacking a gazelle. Like it is watch him beat Chris Wyden to death. It was horrifying to watch that. Weidman was winning the fight through a stupid spin kick, got taken down,

and the fight was basically over from that moment on. And Chris Wydenman can grapple. He is a good grappler, and it does not matter. That dude is a whole other world of offensive grappling if he's got top position. And he just, he tried to do it Dionne Blakovich, but he's not a takedown guy. And so if he finds his way on top of Paula Costa, he is going to kill Paulo Costa. Like, I have zero doubts. If you told me coming into this fight, Lou Crockold will end up on top at one point.

I'm like, cool, he wins the fight, guaranteed. But I don't know that he can do it. and another thing that I don't know he can do is see, see left hooks, because every time someone throws one at him, it knocks him out. And Paulo Costa is pretty good at punching people really hard. So I think that Paulo Costa is going to win this fight. The matchup is very compelling, and the fact that they are both talking so much, not even about each other, really, but sort of at each other,

like offshooting of each other, while Luke is really focused. on his UFC thing and who the hell knows what Paul Costa is focused on. It has become an odd, like oddly more compelling than just about any other fight on the card. And so I'm here for it. Like a fight that I thought I was not going to be that excited

about, I am far more interested in come Saturday. Evan, how is your intrigue built for this fight in particular on Saturday? Yeah, I feel the same way. I feel like it's definitely very intriguing now. You know, it's much more so than I originally anticipated. I actually really like both fighters. So I was already excited for the fight.

But, you know, as far as how it's going to play out, I think there's a lot of different variables. I think that Paulo Costa is either going to come out really hot because, you know, he's probably very frustrated and feels like he's got something to prove after getting freaking dominated. But so I think that can either be played to his advantage. If he can back, Rock hold up and get him up against the cage, kind of take away his move in.

I think that he could really probably do a lot of damage, and I don't think Luke's chin might not hold up. But with that being said, if he comes out too hot and is just walking in the stuff and is, you know, being mindless whenever he's, you know, kind of being a little too reckless with his aggression, which is definitely a possibility because like Jed was saying, you know, he's definitely a little bit of a head case. And I don't like that, you know, he's had so many excuses for the reasons that he's lost.

Man, that's one of my favorite things about fighting, man, is just like, dude, there's no excuses. You know, no matter what it was, if you got in the cage ready to fight, I mean, it's extreme ownership. Everything 100% is on you. You know, that's the way it is. And so I don't like that. I don't like all the excuses. and I think that that actually shows a,

I think that actually shows a little bit of a flaw or a weakness in his, in his mindset, which I believe is the most important thing when it comes to fighting. And, you know, on the flip side of that, I do think Luke Rockhold is probably the more technical fighter. But like I was saying, I worry about the pressure and, you know, Paulo Acosta being able to break him a little bit.

But I think if Luke Rockwell could stay on the outside attack, calf kicks not get backed up make sure to be moving angle it's not taking more than one or two steps straight back he has to as soon as he takes one or two steps straight back he has to change an angle and get the hell away from the cage because i think if if he can get uh if if paul costa gets him up against the cage and starts on leashing i think there's a really good chance that costa puts him away but uh man the fight has definitely got way more interesting in here lately so i'm super excited to see the way it plays out and uh honestly i could really see it going either way because like i said i think that i think luke rachold is definitely the more

technical fighter. And as Jed was saying, if he gets it to the ground, that dude is an absolute savage. Like it is unbelievable, you know, the level of MMA grappling, not just Jiu-Jitsu or, you know, any other type of just, you know, combat grappling. But MMA, MMA grappling is very different. Whenever you got, whenever you can be on top of somebody and just beat them up, things change a lot, you know. So I think if he gets it to the ground, I think it's.

It's going to be Luke Rockhold easy. But getting it there might be a problem. And I think Paul Ocosta has got to come out and put pressure on them, but got to be very smart. You can't just be walking forward and walking in the shots. He's got to be cutting off the cage and trying to find a way to get Luke to the cage. Who needs this one more, Evan? Obviously, it's important for both guys. All you fighters say that every fight is a must win.

That's the mentality you guys have. But who needs to win more? You have Paul Costa, who doesn't want to fight in a long time, still hasn't really gotten over the loss to Adasanya. He's betting on himself, last fight on his deal, or Luke Rockhold coming back after three years, who by the way, if you look at this middleweight division right now, if Israel-Aanasanya beats Alex Pereira at UFC 281, and Luke Rockhold goes out there and finishes Paulo Costa, there is a real world that we live in that Luke Rockhold could find himself in a title fight. sometime next year. So who needs to fund? Most likely scenario, not even a real world. Like, that's the most likely outcome.

100%. That's crazy. If both of those two things happen, Luke Rockhold is getting a title fight. Yes. So who needs us some more? Yeah. I think, in my opinion,

I think Paul O'Costa needs it more because I think Luke has a lot of stuff going on outside of MMA and he's had such a good career. You know, another veteran pioneer of the sport. and you know dude if if worst case scenario happens he comes out gets slept or whatever dude I don't think it's going to ruin him you know but I do think on the other hand Paul Ocosta I think he's I think a big part of why he he has so many excuses for when he loses and why I think

that's such a big flaw in his in his mindset is because I think that he identifies this is his identity. Like this is not just a role. This isn't something he does. This is his identity, which is seems on the surface like it'd be a good thing. You know, you want to have, uh, this is the, you know, the, you know, the only purpose for living. Like, this is who you are. I'm a fighter. But when things go wrong, I feel like that can really weigh on you heavy and really cause you, uh, you know, a lot of, a lot of stress on your mind to, to, you know, not be able to think clearly. And that's why I was saying that I think that he might come out and be, you know, a little too aggressive and not be, you know, clearly thinking because all he's thinking about

is like, I have to win, not thinking about how to win, but have to win. And I think that it definitely is much more detrimental for Paul O'Costa to lose this fight than Luke Rockhold. Because like I saying, I think Luke's got a lot of other stuff going on. I think he's already had super impressive career. Paulo O'Costa, I feel like still has a lot to offer. And I feel like if he loses this fight, it's really going to take away from his career. you know if he doesn't it's going to put him you know hopefully he doesn't get cut obviously but you know who knows and uh i think i think much more pressure is on paula costa to win this fight than luke rockold jad do you agree with that

i mean in the in like life yeah because i think everything i've been said right there is correct like lou rockold has other things to do in his life and i don't know that paula costa does I think the flip side of the argument here really is if Lucrockerold loses this maybe he fights again but like he's he is never going to be a real going concern in the middleweight division again

he's 37 or something like that he's like older knocked out if he lose he can get knocked out so he knocked out four of his last five fights if he loses it then all of the because Evan Evan has said not incorrectly about Paula Costa excuses. Luke is not a man opposed to excusing some of his outcomes as well.

And he has talked a lot, you know, bravely and openly about some of the struggles he faced and how that adversely affected him. But when the rubber hits the road, if he goes in there and gets God again, like, then maybe that wasn't the, the, the issues aren't all the other stuff that are affecting you. It is that your defense is bad. You keep getting punched in the face, and you're not able to do that very well.

And so in the strictly MMA sense, I do think Luke Rockhold has the most to lose here. I would also say that this would be the worst, like all of Luke Rockhold's other losses are fairly explicable. Jan Boehovic, light heavyweight champion, Yole Romero, you know, we all know my love for Yol Romero. Michael Bisping, Hall of Famer, like Vitor Belfort, probably not going to actually be in the Hall of Fame

because of everything, but like a legitimate MMA Hall of Famer. Like, those are all very explicable losses. Polo Costa is one that is a much, much tougher pill to swallow. I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about Jose Aldo taking on Marabdo

El really real quick. You're damn straight. You better talk about the goat. Well, I mean, I think I don't like talking about this fight because it's a damn travesty that Josealdo is not fighting for a title right now, but this is still an interesting fight.

It's the purest main event. This is the intercontinental title fight of UFC 278. Jed, I know how highly you think of Joseo and when this fight was announced. And even now, a lot of people feel like Marab is just going to smush Joseo Alto for 15 minutes, and I just ain't buying it. I'm just not buying it.

So please, I want you to paint us a word picture. How is this fight going down on this? Saturday. My deep and abiding Josalda Fandom and love refuses to let me see a world where Marab Valsh really wins this fight. But there's a great fear that at some point the feel-good story comes to an end. And she's like, oh, yeah, like, I know he's not technically that old, but he is ancient in fight years.

And Marab's this new breed. But I, even, all that being said. my brain still thinks that Jose Aldo is supposed to win this fight. Like, Mara de Alizvili is a very good fighter. I'm very highly ranked in the NBA fighting rankings. Great website, great rankings. But I don't think his game works if he can't score takedowns.

Like, I, his striking is mostly enthusiasm and a willingness to do it. And that counts for a lot, especially in MMA. But, like, he is not a technical savant. And we saw Marlon Marais tune him up. Like, Marlon Marais was just banging him all around the cage for a good little stretch of time until Maraub, you know, ended up turning the tide with getting on top and

and wearing it down from there. But he gets hit a lot. I just don't think his striking skills line up well against Josaldo, who I think is in arguably the greatest defensive fighter in the history of the sport. I think he is going to be able to counter Maraub on the feet. And I don't know if you know this. Joe Zaldo pretty damn good at not allowing the whole takedown thing. Built a career off of winning this exact style matchup.

And if Jose loses, it is probably just a factor of times change. And he's a little older and Maraub is still in his athletic prime and that's just how it goes. But I think that this is a good style matchup for him. if he wasn't going to get a title fight, which I think he 100% should have gotten, I think this is the best other fight he could have gotten in this regard. What do you think, Gavin?

How do you see this one going down? Yeah, I completely agree 100%. I think that he's already made a career fighting guys exactly like this. I think what would make us a big difference in this fight is if Marab striking was just a little bit better to set up to take downs better. But unfortunately, I don't think it is. And I think with how defensively sound Jose Aldo is and how great is takedown defense,

which I think correlate, you know, they go hand in hand. He's very, very defensively sound so he doesn't get caught off guard to where they can set up the takedowns as much. So I don't see Marab being able to take him down like everybody's thinking. I think he's going to be, I think Jose Aldo is going to come out. And just like Marlon Morales, he's going to. he's going to, you know, start laying a lot of strikes. I really see it ending pretty quick. You know, maybe not very quick, first round,

but I don't see it going past the second round. I think Jose Aldo is going to put him out, whether it be, you know, just piecing them up on the feet or catching him timing something as he's shooting in. But I think that Jose Aldo is really going to start touching him up, and then Marab's going to have to just start getting really desperate, diving in on shots. is going to be even easier to defend.

And, you know, with all due respect to Mara, because I think he's amazing. But I just, I am also a huge Jose Aldo fan. And just stylistically, I think that it is a bad matchup from Rob. A lot of love for Jose Aldo. I'll give my breakdown of the fight. It hasn't changed since the fight was announced. I feel exactly the same today as I did when we first saw the fight poster.

And I will reveal that on the preview show tomorrow. We still get so much to talk about rapid fire popery round coming. up next. The point for round three goes to two stray for Jedbyshoe. It's two to one. Good round. Building momentum. Yes, but we all know it's about to happen here. So we'll just have some fun. All right, this is a rapid fire round.

We're going to touch on a couple of these for as long as time permits, some other news and notes in the sport of MMA. Evan, I'll begin with you with this question. We found out on Monday on the MMA hour that Shane Burgos is no longer a UFC fighter. He is signed with the PFL. Your reaction to Shane Burgos

turning the page and going after that Millie. Man, I can't believe it. Hurricane Shane, man, I love that dude. I think he's one of the most exciting fighters. That dude's got the heart of a warrior. You will never see him in a boring fight. And I can't believe he's not with the UFC anymore, but I do think

that he could make a very good career in PFL because, you know, PFL has not only got a lot of talent, but obviously they have the million dollars. tournament and I think he has a very good shot of winning that. So, you know, I hope all the best for him because, man, I'm a big fan of Shane. So, uh, you know, nothing but good wishes. Jed, same question. And I want to add a little caveat to this because it is very rare that Dana White goes on in a public forum and says that the promotion made a mistake because they have,

he has had a multiple occasions. I'm not sure he's ever done it before. But he's not in here. was never admitted fault before. Were you surprised by the decision, and are you surprised about Dana's reaction to Burgos moving on? I am absolutely flabbergasted that Dana White admitted fault because he's just never done that.

That's not who he is. I'm not surprised by Shane Burgos his decision because I'd like to read you a tweet that I made on this past weekend when I was covering the PFL for MAAFIDD.com website. And we're going to take one of the

words out of the tweet. The tweet is, if you're a heavyweight of any ability, why in God's name wouldn't you sign with the PFL immediately and win one million dollars? Like, Sergei Spivak, come be a millionaire instead of being a top 10ish heavyweight. And when I said that specifically about heavyweight, because Ante Delajia is facing Mathieu shuffle, and for a million dollars, I want to be clear, for one million American dollars, Ante deLajie. Elijah and the two shuffle are fighting. Cannot stress that number enough. I was like, I don't know why any good-ish, but like, just a guy who's self-aware enough

to be like, I'm probably not going to beat Francis and Ganu. And frankly, I'm probably not even going to get a title fight at him. Like, I should just go get a million dollars. And I said that about. the heavyweights because it's the most obvious at heavyweight because it is like you know featherweight has some really good fighters in the pfell actually uh chris way brinan lorne are about like they're good guys so it is much more difficult there but shame burgos has a way way way way better chance of becoming a millionaire by signing with the bfl than he ever did it being in the ufc so not surprised

at all way to go shame burgos you made a good business decision All right. Next topic. Jed, if you could only watch one fight card on Saturday, what do you watch? PFL or BKFC London? Oh, oh, so I don't get the UFC. Okay. No, you don't.

Because I was just saying, like, the UFC card is, the main card is really good. Everything else is pretty mid. I mean, it has to be the PFL, I guess. I've never been a huge BATFC guy. I know a lot of people love it and that's good for you for y'all. I was a little more sold after on the M.A. hour, great program. Go check that out. Ariel did face off with Mike Perry and MVP and Mike Perry just a hilarious individual.

Either the funniest intentional person ever or the just incredibly, funny unintentional person. I can't tell if he's in on the joke or not, but man, some of the things he says are spectacular. But that's all the fun that BKFC is offering me, is that interaction there. Versus PFL,

look, the heavy weights are a tough hang. I'm not going to lie to you. Last weekend wasn't the world's best card. But you get to watch Kayla Harrison go to work. She's one of the best female fighters in the world. Chris Wade, Brendan Loneyin, as I mentioned, that's a really damn good fight. uh, Larissa Pacheco.

I actually think Luce Pachaco's a really good fighter. She doesn't get the credit she probably deserves because women's lightweight isn't a real division and she's most known for just periodically getting her ass beat by Kayla Harrison. But I do think she's a very good fighter. So, uh, give me the PFL, uh, if those are my two choices. Evan, same question for you. PFL, Kail Harrison, BKFC, Mike Perry versus MVP. Hey, listen, I love Mike Perry.

I love Mike Perry. He's freaking hilarious. And that's so funny what Jed was saying about, I don't know if it is intentional, man. I think that might just be who he is. And I don't think he's in on the jokes. I think he's just being 100% authentic. And people, he's like, man, why don't all these people laughing everything I'm saying? But, no, I think that I think it's an interesting, I think the BKFC with MVP and,

And Mike Perry is very interesting. But to be completely honest, and I hate to say it, and I have so much respect for all combat sport athletes. But I just don't really, I'm not a huge fan of BKFC. I think I think bare-knuckle MMA would be much better than just bare-knuckle boxing. But for that reason, I definitely would go with the PFL just because as a mixed martial artist kind of sewer, I think that you're going to have a lot more actual skills and talent to watch and much more of an art to see with the PFL with all the high-level MMA fights. But like I said, no knock on anybody because I respect all combat sports athletes.

And I like BKFC, but not anything tremendously. Also, my – let's be very clear. the best thing to watch Saturday, arguably including the UFC, is Usik Joshua 2. If I'm watching a non-UFC thing Saturday, it's Ucic Joshua 2. And there's even an argument to watch KSW just, even though their card is ratchet, it's still KSW, so it's fun. It's an awful card. But like, is it that much worse?

Is it that much worse? And the production values are great. Perry MVP is just, I'm just so interested to see how that's, fight actually looks. Like, I have a feeling it's not going to be the greatest, most action-packed fight of all time. I see a world where MVP just pieces Perry up for a while. But Perry's a dog, so it could be fun. But we get five, you get five postlims with PFL. Yeah, also, Marcine held, who is a post-lim on PFL, tough hang, buddy. Yeah, of post-lims are tough, too. Man, yeah, I don't, none of these are good choice. Watch Usik, Joshua, too.

everybody do that with your time. That's a great use of your time. And a shout out to Elena Kolesnik, who has a chance to make it to the finals after everything she's gone through over this past year. She is a lovely person. I got to meet her in Atlanta.

She is a wonderful human being. If you haven't checked it out, go to my PIN tweet and check out either the article. I actually recommend you listen to the podcast because I just think it comes out so good. I actually listen to it today. I don't go back.

and listen to my work all that often, but I did go back and listen to that. And I was like, damn, I forgot how like sad this story is, but the redemption could be incredible. Last thing, Jed, Roy McDonald announces retirement from the sport after a brutal K.O. loss for the PFL last weekend. Your reaction, what will he be remembered for in your eyes? I mean, it's good. It's a good retirement. It feels like it's going to stick when you hear him talk about it. He sounded a lot like Donald Seroni when Soroni retired. saying I knew I wanted to retire for a while, but I wanted to make absolutely certain that it was time that I was ready to go, that the game ain't in me no more.

And that that's what Rory sounded like. So I think this one's going to stick. It's a good time to go. He hasn't found success by transitioning to the PFL. By all accounts, he put everything he had into this past year to try and make it happen. And it's just not there for him anymore. And that's okay. Like he had great career

The thing he is going to be remembered for Is very obviously the Robbie Luller fight I think that was 189 He will be enshrined in the UFC Hall of Fame at some point For that fight It is the It's tough to call it the highlight Because he ends up losing that fight

But it is It is the fight that defines his career entirely Even with being a Beltaire Walter Wattel Championship like that's just a fight that you think of But great career. Probably not as good as people expected of him, but still a very, very solid career. I don't think he underachieved at all, which, you know, there's a lot to be said for that. Like, he maybe didn't achieve what people wanted from him, but I think he achieved just about as much as he could have.

And that's good. Evan, Roy McDonald retires, your reaction. Man, it's sad to me. Very similar to Cowboy, you know, because I literally grew up watching these guys. And like those were two, those were actually two specific fighters that I looked up to a lot, especially Rory. I remember being like 16 years old going out to California and doing some, I got some training in at the gym out there. And, you know, being that young, Rory was young on the scene too. was, you know, super young, the UFC, and they called me, Rory McDonald's out there because I was

just, you know, so young and, uh, you know, really trying to, to pursue my dream and everything. And, uh, that was like the coolest thing in the world to me because I had, you know, that much admiration for, for Rory already. And, uh, so, you know, to me it was very sad, um, but also very happy because I do think is definitely time. And I hate, I hate, hate, hate, hate seeing like people, people like him, uh, that I look up to so much, um, you know, time's shame. and life, life is hard, life changes. He's got a family, he's got kids, he's got different obligations, priorities may have changed, you know,

and fighting gets, you know, fighting's tough, man. So just like I was saying earlier, it's 100% a full-time job. So if you're not, if you're not given 24 hours of your day to it, it's hard to stay at the top. And, you know, I hate to see people's legacy, you know, start getting tainted because, we remember what we see last a lot of times. So, you know, I'm glad to see him hang it up.

And I hope the next chapter of his life is great because he's freaking definitely deserved it. And I'm very thankful. And I hope he's happy with the work that he's turned in because, man, he is a legend in my eyes. He's accomplished so much. And nothing but respect and admiration for the guy. And I hope his retirement treats him well. well said with that said it's time to give away the final point of regulation point for round four goes two it was a very close round but evan just tugged at the old heartstrings at the end there it's two to two

which means we're going to have some fun ladies and gentlemen as expected it doesn't really happen that often on the program but we're going to go to the knockout round each each participant will have one minute One minute to answer a random question they have no idea about, although they probably do. It's not going to be incredibly crazy. Once that is over, there will be a poll on the M.A. Fighting YouTube channel, which you are watching right now. And you can cast your vote for who you think won this week's edition of Between the Lings. Jed, you are the winner of the most previous show that there was an actual competition. You know how this works.

Do you want to go first, or do you want to price his right style and pass it on over to? to Evan. Trying to think what question you would have here, because that defines how I want to play the game for the sake of it. And because, you know, Evan's first time, want to be generous, I'll go first. I'll let him see how it's done. All right. Here we go.

I've honestly no idea what you're about to ask either. So maybe I'm brain farting because nothing's jumping out at me. It's nothing crazy. But let's talk. We're going to talk. UFC 278 one last time, Jedmishu, one last time. What we're going to do, what we're going to do is we're going to take the three main fights

we already talked about and the heavyweight fight between Alex Andrew Romanov and Martin Tybora off the board altogether. What fight, fighter, or storyline stands out the most outside of the big four? I know it's a little bit. Why you take him on? a little bit here.

Because I knew you were going to go with that. And I'm not going to allow that to happen. You're as high on, you're as high on Ramon up as I am. So it's not like I'm hearing anything new. So one minute on the clock, low key banger, low key storyline for UFC 278,

outside of the four big fights. Go. That's tough because, let's be really honest. This is a three-fight card, and I have a special place in my soul for heavyweights. And Alleghenyono is probably going to challenge

for about one day. So those are the four. If I have to pick another one, uh, loki banger is tough. I will go ahead and say, though, just for the sake of it,

because this has become a bit of a meme on no bets barred, great podcast. Amir al-Bosi, Francisco Figurato. Uh, one, you love it when you've got the sibling of a UFC champion

because they mostly aren't good. They're not like bad, but they mostly aren't. not good. Like one, one sibling gets all the talent. Antinna Shivchenko, uh, and Valentina Shivchenko comes to mind. He's going against Tamir Albaazi, who might be really damn good and is absolutely super exciting. And most importantly, ladies and gentlemen, flyweight unders, they never lose. So go ahead and bet that under two and a half because I sure have, because they always cash. Baby, let's go. There you go. Jed trying to make some money for the people who are going to be casting

votes. So not a bad game. Game plan. Not a bad game plan. Let's go to Evan. UFC 278. We're taking the four big fights with all the high stakes off the table. We have some, there's lots of opportunity here to emerge as maybe another star. Who knows, but we get some interesting matchups here. Outside of the four major fights, what's the low key bangor fight fighter storyline that you have your eye on as a fan? One minute on the clock. Go. man i'm i i feel so bad i'm drawing such a blank but i'm i have to go with my boy on's lusa i can't remember the name of the guy he's fighting j j fletcher yes fletcher uh but i have to go with that fight just because uh luca is my boy and i mean he is seriously aside from aside from him being a friend of mine he is one of the most exciting fighters and i think that dude's going to have such an amazing career in the ufc if you watch his two fights that he's had I'm sorry, one fight on the contemporary series, one fight in the UFC, both losses, both incredible fights, like, amazing fights.

I think he's going to be one of the most exciting fighters in the UFC, and for that reason, I think that I think he's going to put on a show, and I think that's going to be the standout. And it's on the early prelim, so make sure not to miss it. There you go. And if you're not watching the card, you can follow along with M.AFighting.com. We'll tell you what happened on that fight. And it's a great new. You're going to say that. Check it out.

All right. Yeah, check it out. Great website. Tremendous, tremendous website, as Jed likes to say. So I'm going to waste a few moments here while you all cast your votes for Jed, for Evan. I know the last couple of shows where we've gone to the peeps, draw was even an option. So perhaps that is an option once again.

So a little programming note tomorrow. No draw option today. There will be a winner. There will be a winner. Winners and losers. Oh, it's a pay-view week. It's a pay-per-view week. We're going to be draws here.

We still can't have a draw if we both just get 50% of the vote. That is very true. But then if that happens, if that happens, if that happens, Casey will make the final decision. So there will be a winner, baby. There will be a winner. Tomorrow morning, 9.30 a.m. Eastern, heck of a morning on the MMA fighting Twitter spaces. We're going to start a little bit early because we have the official way-in show, which is going to kick off a little before 11 a.m. Eastern to get you ready

For UFC 278, we'll see if there's a drama on the scale. Me and Casey and Jose and if you want to join, hop on in. But you have the day off. I do. I do not. I just know A.K.'s not working. So I didn't know who's going to be doing that with you. Well, you don't want to jump down and watch the heavyweights weigh in?

No, we could like 225. Yeah. Say, yeah. And he's probably going to wait until the last minute because heavy weights like to do that for some reason. It's the best. It's very true. Well, preview show 3 p.m. Eastern, myself, Jose Young's. Casey will join us as well. We'll take questions. We'll have the People's Pre-Fight Show 515 Eastern on Saturday.

Myself, Jed Mishu, will be back with Casey answering your questions until the first punches are thrown. Jose is in Salt Lake City, so we'll have your post-fight coverage press conference, post-fight show, and then 11 a.m. on Sunday morning, Jed and I are back for a live edition of On to the next one matchmaking we're going to have some fun AK will not be here for that because he is in Scotland I believe she's living the high life so I think we've wasted enough time here let's bring in the man with the bad astash in MMA media E Casey Leiden mr 30 24 there he is Mr 30 24 E Casey lied do we have a decision here do we have the peeps come through I'm trying to stretch it like I'm trying to stretch this out because it is this is super close this is

Super close. Wow. All right. Let me get to our YouTube channel so I can vote. Hey, hey, no peeking, no peeking. You're like the corner guy that gets behind Buffer. When they read the announcements, I guess he already knows the decision. You're that guy.

Both guys had to dig real deep here to find the storyline. So let's see. Give the old Jeopardy music countdown. Yeah, yeah. A little bit longer. Yes. All right, all right. We have a winner.

You're a winner with 54% of the votes is... Ooh. That is close. And still, Jedmishu. I see the face. I saw the face of disgust. So I heard it. It kind of gave it away.

I couldn't hide it. I couldn't hide it. It's like he walked out of his front door and like a skunk sprained in his drive. That was the look that you had on your feet. I can't believe I had to say this out loud. So, Jed gets me on. Sorry. Sorry to disappoint.

Let's be clear. I won because of the PFL million dollars thing. Like, that's where all my votes came from. I'm 100% of certain. Dude, that was hilarious. That was the winner. All right, Jed. Your 32nd victory lap, my man.

Ooh, I'm excited because I actually prepared something this time. Let's talk about Paula Costa. He might not be very good. and I say this and I think he's going to beat Luke Grockhold, but I want us to just contextualize what his career has been. His wins are, let's remember, Gareth McClellan, Olawali Ben-Bose, Johnny Hendricks, Uriah Hall,

and then a robbery over Yolo Romero. That is not a great resume, if we're being honest, and he lost to Izzy, and he lost to Marvin Vittoria, the two best guys he's fought that aren't Yol Romero. There's a real chance that he is not very good. good and Luke Rockhold, at least at one point in time, was very good. And I am getting very, very closer just thinking Rockhold's going to beat him as this fight gets closer.

So tune in, tune in Saturday. And we will find out who does win. Evan, we appreciate you jumping on, Ed Cap, put out the feelers, and you jumped in. And we appreciate that very much. Your thoughts on the voting and your time here in the virtual arena. Hey, I appreciate you. Yeah, guys, having me on, I had a really good time, and I hope we can do it again. Shout out to Ed for hitting me up.

But, no, I think the voting was good, man. You know, Jed's a winner for a reason. He's very well thought out, you know, obviously very educated and well-spoken on the topic. So congratulations to Jed, and hopefully we can run it back. I know. This is un-BT-like, but maybe we're changing our way. This guy is way too polite and nice to be a fighter. Get out of here.

Yeah, that's not all that. I'm sorry. All right. My bad. My bad. Evan, let me be your mouthpiece. Yeah, if Evan and Joe Selecki played each other in this game, it would be the kindest show. Can you do that?

Make that happen? Maybe. Make that happen. I mean, they're in the same division. It's tough. It's tough. I would love to try it, but we'll see what happens. We'll have to check in with the man, the myth of legend, Ed Capp, to see if we can make that work.

But you can hit the exit music, Casey. because we are done. We went a little overtime today, but we had a million things to talk about. Of course, we've got UFC 278 coming up on Saturday, and it should be fun. We'll have a lot to discuss

coming out of that event, and hopefully you will join us for all of that content. So thank you very much for watching. For Jed, for Evan, I am Mike Heck. Big shout out to E, Casey Liden on the ones and twos.

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn takes you home. We'll see you back here once again between the links next week. Good night, everybody. This has been between the links. Thanks. Thank you for watching. Evan Nutter, you are the people's champ.

Jed Mishu, you suck. You suck, Jed. You suck, Jed. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.