MMA Fighting - BTL | Was Valentina Shevchenko Robbed? Dana White Announces Prochazka-Pereira, Edwards-Covington

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

The MMA community is still scratching their heads following the main event of Noche UFC this past Saturday between Alexa Grasso and Valentina Shevchenko. The fight was a classic, but it will go down as the night Mike Bell scored the fifth round 10-8 for Grasso to lead to a split draw, costing Shevchenko a second reign as UFC champ. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the fallout of the flyweight title fight between Grasso and Shevchenko days later, if opinions changed in any way since Saturday night, what the next move will be at 125, and more. Additionally, they'll discuss Dana White's reaction to the result, and the themed event as a whole, other standout fighters and moments from the card, the announcements of Jiri Prochazka vs. Alex Pereira at UFC 295, and Leon Edwards vs. Colby Covington at UFC 296, and more. Plus, the second half of the show, the panel answers your questions about UFC Vegas 79, and other news in the world of MMA. Host Mike Heck will be joined by MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew to discuss the biggest stories of the week in the space. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. Come on.

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomed you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Thank you for joining us on another Thursday. And I got to tell you, one of the things about hosting the show and putting the show together on a weekly basis is you always worry whether or not there's enough to talk about on a Thursday. And boy, oh boy, do we have a lot to talk about on this Thursday? Back end of the show, we're going to hear from you guys and gals, whatever you want to talk about will take some questions.

But before that, we're going to have a little banter fest with myself and our special guests. Mr. No Gray area, Mr. Hot Take, co-host of No Betts Bard, the man behind Damn they were good. He is Mr. Jed Michoud. Jed, Mad. Happy Thursday, my friend. How are you? Mike, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Love to be here, as always. I got to say, last night, finished up work, and I was like, I wonder what we're going to talk about tomorrow. I mean, obviously the Grasso-Chivchenko fight and the whole 10-8, but other than that, I mean coming off of Noche, it's not like there were a ton of storylines there. And this this weekend's card, I guess we talk about, but also not a huge number of stories there.

And then I went, I went to go see a movie. I come out of the movie. And apparently the end of the calendar has been established. So plenty to talk about now, Mike. Well, the big question is, what did you see? What movie was this? And was it good? It was incredible.

It's very weird. It's definitely very weird. I don't know if anyone watching this has seen it, but I was like, one, it's 90 minutes. I love a 90 minute movie. I mean, that's just a sweet spot. That's the good stuff right there.

And, you know, it's Emma Sigelman's new movie. And the first 30 minutes are astonishingly funny. Like, I was in tears laughing at points of it. It gets real weird down the stretch, but in like a good way, at least for me. So I had a great time. Well worth my 20 bucks.

20 bucks. All right. Well, it's free. It's free. I don't actually know what movies cost now, but I'm part of the AMC Stubbs membership thing. So like I just pay my monthly subscription and I go see a bunch of movies every month. Yeah, that's a great call.

Popcorn, right? Gotta do popcorn. I didn't do anything last night because I popped off a crown last night. was like, I'll just do a beverage and sit there because I didn't, I don't know, didn't want to fish popcorn out of that. So, yeah, but it was great. I enjoyed the hell out of it. If you haven't seen it, I recommend it.

It's a high school, you know, coming of age movie. It was great. Well, speaking of enjoying the hell out of it, we enjoyed the hell out of the Noche UFC main event between Alexa Grasso and Valentina Shvchenko. These two women went to war. It was an incredible fight. I think it's going to be on most people's top 10 at worst four fights of the year. In the end, if you went to social media, if you scored it with a bunch of your friends,

chances are you were split down the middle. It was either 4847 Valencia Chances Chonko. It was 4847 Alexa Grasso. But there was one person, one person. Well, Jed, you had a different score as well. But there's one person who said, you know what? There is no winner to this fight. And I'm going to make sure there's no winner to this fight.

We're going to score round first. 10-8 for Alexa Grasso scoring the fight 47-47 and a split draw. Alexa Grasso, still the UFC Flyway Champion of the world. Valentina Shvchenko, by all accounts, should be the flyway champion of the world. So I ask you, Jedmishu, I know you score the fight for Alex Grasso. I know you're not alone in this venture. But considering Mike Bell's card, how everything played out, the reaction to it since this past Saturday night.

I'm just going to throw this out there. Can we use the word robbery? Was Valentina Shepchenko robbed on Saturday? Free Mike Bell, Mike Heck. Free Mike Bell. That's what I have to say. Look, it's not a great score, right? You don't want to see that 10-8 because like everything that everyone says about it is correct.

And, you know, they did the NAC review and basically everybody's like, yeah, that's not a 10-8 round because it's not. And it's just not. And here's the thing, Mike, no one's going to argue it. If Mike Bell were to give you, look you in the eye, stare into his soul and get the God's honest out of him, he would tell you that's not a 10-8 round. And even more, I knew it wasn't a 10-8 round when I put it down. Said this on the post show. I've said this in various platforms since. I wrote about it on Monday in the mailback column.

I am more confident of this than I am in almost anything else in my life. It's a makeup call, Mike. What happened is a makeup call. Valentina Shivchenko has it right. She's obviously very upset by that, and I understand why she would be. But Mike Bella looked at his scorecard, looked at that fifth round and said, I have to give this Cigrasso. And when I do, Chichenko is going to win this fight that I don't believe she won.

I'm just going to make that an eight, and then my hands are washed. I have done the best I can under these circumstances. And you know what? I'm okay with it. It's not right. It's bad. That's bad precedent. I'm not defending it other than to say, I'm okay with the outcome here.

Because there is an argument that it is a robbery that Valentina Shipschenko because of the circumstances. But no judge. scoring round two a 10-8 is an actual stone-cold robbery to me. Like, I do not understand how no judge decided round 10 or round two was a 10-8 based on like the actual scoring criteria and not even like the loosely interpreted way that I had to find them. So that is that. And it's just too like Alex Crosser won that fight, man.

And if she didn't, she didn't lose that fight. Like if she didn't win that fight, she didn't lose that fight. And I think we said this in the post show and I think it's so true. If we didn't know what rounds went where, I don't think anybody would really be that miffed about a draw being the ultimate score there. Because we do and because it looks so bad, the process to get to that end result was specious at best. Okay. Like, there's going to be some backlash. But I don't think this is a thing we need to harp on.

I think that it has been very interesting to see the level of backlash and even getting the NAC to review something like this. Like there have been worse scores out there. Like worse things have happened that the NAC is just like, whatever, dude, I don't care. And yet this is the instance where we're like going to stand up and put a show on. All of that has been a very interesting part of this. But ultimately, Mike Bell has historically been one of the better judges working in the sport. If I'm wrong and I am not and, you know, he just goofed, then, you know, okay, sometimes you goof, if that's the problem with the sport in parts.

But if I'm right, I don't condone it, but I don't, I'm not going to vilify him for it, Mike, because in the end, I think we got an outcome that is better, frankly, than if Valentina Shivchenko had won that fight that I scored a loss for her

and that, I don't know, just doesn't feel like she should walk away the winner, you know? So if Mike Bell scores this correctly, and Valentina Shibchenko is once again the flyaway champion. You would have more of an issue with this than the 10-8 fifth round? I wouldn't have more of an issue.

I'd probably have the same. Actually, yeah, I probably would because I'd care a lot more about round two not being a 10-8. Like, I ultimately don't have to care that much about it not being a 10-8, given the circumstances right, because of how it all unfolded. But like, round two should be a 10-8. I'm firmly of the opinion that round three also should be a 10-8 for Valentina Shvchenko based on the scoring criteria

and just how logic and common sense works. And I think we're going to talk about Dana's comments in a little bit and some stuff Dana said this week about 10-8 rounds. He's like objectively incorrect in that position. And my position has and always will be, 10-8s should be extremely frequent because they are the only mechanism

by which MMA judges can differentiate the quality of rounds. Like there isn't, the 10-8 in boxing is so straightforward because knockdowns are such a clear, oh, this round was more significant, like, than the previous rounds because that dude got dropped to a knee. And so, like, it clears that way. We don't have that mechanism. There isn't a, hey, a dude got dropped, and then the next four minutes is there. It is a part of how the scoring system works. And so I have always felt that they should be very liberal with 10-8s. If one round, if there's a clear winner versus a competitive winner, 10-8 goes to the clear

winner of a round. In that third round, Valentina Shichenko had back control for like three minutes. Like, that's a 10-8 to me. In the second round, Shichenko got dropped and then held on for dear life down the stretch. It's a 10-8 for me. So I'd have a lot more of an issue if the outcome was something less palatable. I can understand a scorecard for Valentina Shepchenko. I think that it is, and again, Mike, we're talking to me here.

about as big of a Valentina Shevchenko supporter as there has ever been in this sport. To score that fight for her is not wrong, but it is very charitable. It is giving her a lot of benefits of all of the doubts and playing on the technicalities of the scoring system in a way that does not feel emotionally satisfying at the end of that fight. You know, I don't put a ton of stock into the idea of who won the fight and pride rules, but legitimately on the school yard if these two got into a fight you certainly wouldn't say

Valentina Shepchenko won now you might not say the Lexa Grasso won and just say yeah they fought each other and it happened but I think I think the end result not being Shavchenko doesn't get the belt is probably the best case scenario here

it's very strange like this whole thing is very strange because I've said this on multiple shows this week as well because I agree with you if you score if Mike Bell had scored rounds two and three, 10, 8, and then scored round 5, 10, 8. I would still be against it somewhat, but at least you're like, okay, at least he's consistent.

But this is out of nowhere. And if this is a makeup call, as you say, it might be. It's the only answer, man. It's awful. It's awful. It's very cavalier. It's a very cavalier. Cavalier.

It's bad, dude. It's bad. Like Dana White was like when I first saw this, I was like, this dude should be investigated. And I think it's just wild, man. Like, Doug, the one other scorecard that really stands out to me, there's two that I think about. One is the Henry Sehuda Al Jameen Sterling fight. And in that sense, like the backlash wasn't as bad because most people felt Al Jameen Sterling won that fight, but had whoever that judge was scored that fifth round the correct way, Henry Sehudo would be the Bannamway champion right now. So that's like a whole different thing

all together. The other one, Doug Crosby scoring the Danny Sabaabre. Vatelow, Rafián Stats fight, 50, 45 for Daddy's Abathele. That might be a worse card than this one as a whole. That's a much worse card. For sure, as a whole. Because it's five and it's all bad. And in the end, it didn't affect the overall outcome of the fight. Like, Rafihan Stats, most people felt he won, he moved on and ended up getting iced out by Patschu Mix anyways.

But you know what I'm saying? Now they're running it back. Now they're running to back, Mike. The fight, the rematch everybody has been clamoring for. but if this is actually like if Mike Bell comes out and is like this is a makeup call I know you would be like all right I knew it I knew it I don't think he can say that you can't I think you should never say it because there's no other explanation for it like this has to be maybe it is a makeup call but if that's the reason for this because I just don't

see any other thing that makes sense here it's crazy there isn't and that's it like uh and that's why it's really bad, right? Like, I get it. I totally understand the arguments. I would argue that not scoring the last round for Suhudo is actually a worse score because even though I don't think there is a credible way to view that round as a 10-8, you know, maybe you got a weird angle. Maybe you're like right next to it and it really looks like she's choking her out and you just like forgot that there was actually three minutes and 30 seconds of the round before that file. Like, maybe you could talk yourself into it. I don't see how. any rational person didn't score round five for Suhudo in that fight, but either way.

My thing, I think, and we've been focusing on this a lot, and I get it, totally understand it. It deserves to be talked about. Frankly, there does deserve to be an investigation. I wish the NAC and commissions would take things like this a little more seriously. I ultimately come to this from the angle that you mentioned for the, for the Aljo Suhudo thing. I think we got the end result that I'm comfortable with. I still personally believe Alexa Grasso should have won that fight, but totally fine. with her retaining her belt in a draw

because the fight was very competitive. Valentina Shivchenko is getting a gift here in that yes, all of this is true and bad and she doesn't get the belt because of X, Y, or Z. Okay. But none of, we wouldn't be talking about any of this if she could stop heaving away fights

with the stupidest idea possible in the fifth round. She was cruising to a win in round five by simply jabbing and moving. And we have all stopped talking about it because I thought that that actually cost to the fight in the belt. I was live blogging the event and I was like, Valentina Shvchenko is three minutes into this round and Alexa Grasso has nothing. This fight's over.

It was probably judged two to heading into this round almost certainly. Whoever wins this is it. And she's done. And frankly, it could have been three one heading into the round as we saw with. the judge like Mike Bell. All she has to do is keep sticking and jabbing. And then she goes for the idiot head arm throw and exposes her back to Alexa Grasso, despite getting choked the F out the last time she did it, loses that round and doesn't.

If instead of doing the very, very dumb head and arm throw thing, instead, she just stays and jabs and sticks it. We're not talking about this. Mike Bell can't score that fight at 10-8 for Grasso. He's got to frankly score to 10-9 for Shivchenko. And then it's a 4946 and 24847s or whatever the scores end up shaking out for her. There is simply, yes, we can focus on this. And yes, I know many people hate the phrase.

Don't leave it in the hands of the judges because, you know, whatever. We can litigate that if we need to. But you are the author of your own fate in that cage in a lot of ways. And she made a choice. And that choice was really, really bad. and now she is the bill has come due. She is reaping what she sowed. And the conversation could and should just as much be about the horrible tactical

choices she made down the stretch of a fight that at best was extremely competitive heading into the last round for her. I don't disagree with what you're saying. That was a bad mistake. No doubt about it. Well, we just don't talk about it because the Mikelinson flashing. And it's just like if she gotten choked out too, like, okay, well, that's on you, homie.

Stop heaving fights away that you were winning. There was no, no reason for her to do it. None whatsoever. And she just tossed her and then done. I was just like, oh, that's it. She just threw away the title. She had the title and she just threw it away. And that ended up being true.

Because if she had just stayed not doing that, she would have won the fifth round. We'll have won the fight. You mentioned that this has created at least more than conversation with the Nevada Athletic Commission. Yesterday they had a meeting where credential judges would go hop on a Zoom call or be in the building and they would go back and watch different rounds that were scored 10-8 on Saturday. And just so happens, most of the 10-8 rounds that were scored on Saturday were from Mike Bell.

He scored all three rounds of the Josephine Knudsen win over Marion Man 10-8, which I had no issue with. I thought you could make strong cases for all those being 10-8s. I could also say that you could have scored two and three, 10, 8. And then if he had scored round 5, 10, 8 as well, I don't think this is really a conversation. I think we'd question it a little bit, but at least there's consistency there. And we understand that maybe 108 should be thrown around a little bit more

because the scoring in MMA is friggin dumb. And the 10-9 score in round one is certainly not the same as the 10-9 score in round two when Alexa Grasso knocked Valentina Shvchenko across the octagon like Brock Lesnar did to Heath Herrig. It's not the same. Like those rounds should be not scored the same. So they went in there. Jeff Mullen, who is the head of the NAC, the NAC, put Mike over, said, quote,

Mike's one of the very best judges in the world, scores over the last five years that he's been here, have been some of the most consistent scores that we have had. And I think a lot of people would agree with that. However, I do not agree with the score on this round. I'm glad they had this meeting. But how did you react when you found out that Mike Bell wasn't even a part of it? He wasn't even there. Oh, I wasn't surprised. Why would he be? Look, yes, it's fun that they have this meeting and at least pretend like they take this seriously and care what anyone thinks. They don't. They have a little fiefdom. They are the kings of their own universe and there's no oversight or regulation or anything to prohibit them from doing whatever the hell they want, whatever the hell they want. That's how it's always been, particularly Nevada, as like one of the more egregious points of it. And so like it's at least nice.

when they feign like they care, you know, like we all know the drill, but you can at least pretend to win some credibility to us or at least play the game in a way that now we can pretend like you're giving a shit and then we can all at least have some level of happiness. It's better than that than when they just peel back the curtain. I'm like, dude, I don't care at all. Whatever, yolo. We're going to keep rolling Sal out every time, buddy, don't care at all. Just going to keep doing it.

But yeah, there's no expectation that something is going to change. You know, they said that he had a prior engagement. I wouldn't shock me if he did. Also, I would somewhat expect them to be like, hey, we're going to do this thing because we feel some pressure to do it, but you're not coming because that's going to open up a can of things that the potential there is not something we want to deal with. So every time a judge has ever spoken out about a scorecard that has come off poorly. like it has never been like oh man i i beefed that one sorry guys it's always like i'm right you're stupid um and here's my post to the forum about why i'm a genius so i'm not surprised mike wasn't there

uh not surprised nothing's really going to come of this but you know at least they gave us a dog and pony show for a little bit yes uh you did mention that dana white reacted oh go ahead kacey can i chime in just for a slight defense of my Mike Bell. Oh, my gosh. I already defended him, but keep defending him, Casey. The position, and I think this isn't highlighted enough of judging from our TV angle. Mike Bell of the judging positions had the worst position in that final minute.

He was actually literally across the cage with the ref basically kind of in front of him. So he never had the greatest view. and I want to kind of when he goes back to what Valentina said kind of like oh well he did this because this is UFC Noce this is like she thought we were fighting in Mexico not exactly but

with the crowd going crazy this happens a lot actually when a lot of times in close fights when when kicks are when kicks and punches are actually blocked but the crowd assumes it lands a judge if they have the right angle will assume it lands too so in that sense i get why mike bell maybe

oversold the hell deep the choke was from that angle and from the crowd noise that's all i'm kind of hinting at like why he kind of leaned that way um but i still don't think of 10 8 but i just want to kind from mike because you're going to i don't understand what he saw because you got to understand he's not seeing what we're seeing too that's all yeah i get like i get all that and yeah you just have to forget the first thing that you're going to i don't know i don't three and a half minutes of the round, though. And the rest of the fight.

That's the thing. And like, people don't understand. I thought the geet. Okay, sorry, go on. No, what I was going to say is Saturday night before we went live on the post fight show, we were getting after it. Like, we were having like a yelling match almost about this score. And you were like, no, I have no problem with this.

Like, Alexa won, like, this is the right way. And our whole point to all this. And even Jed to a point, he said it here today, like, all's well that ends. well, I guess, is kind of the sentiment in all of this. But our whole argument was like, look, if he scored, even if he just scored round two at 10-8 and then scored round five at 10-8, like, I have much less of a problem with this. The fact that Alexa Grasso knocked Valencia Shufchenko across the friggin' octagon with a right

hand and hurt her so badly, and that, I don't care what angle you're sitting at. I don't care if you're sitting outside. You could hear Valentina Shifchenko's body roll across the octagon and almost land against the fence wall. And that's not a 10-8. Like, that's my whole thing. Like, if you have a bad view of round five, that's cool. But you, there is no view in the world where you couldn't see Alexa Grasso knocked Valentina Schifchenko across the cage. And that's not a 10-8. That's my whole issue with this whole thing. If you scored round 2-10-8, I am less baffled by all this. I'm like, all right, this is a consistent score. He had three 10-8 rounds earlier in the night. Like,

this is Mike Bell being Mike Bell. Throw out those 10-8s, great. But the fact that this is the only round in the whole fight he scored 108 that's my problem with it the consistency just isn't there i don't care what view you're said i i understand but i think those two other rounds with the guayt team round and the drop round were like if he had a if he could do a 10 8.5 i feel like he would have but we don't have that option that it's just nine or eight and um i think this goes back to the scoring issue we have a boxing scoring issue even there's just too big a gap even with nine and eights but um i'm not justifying it. I'm just kind of giving a little bit of his reasoning, I think. Yeah, I could see it. And I got the argument that evening. After we watching it.

Yeah. And I, and I kind of disagree a little bit. I think he, from his angle, a near choke that was within, you know, millimeters of actually sinking in versus dropping someone. I think he felt that's closer to an actual finish than dropping someone, which I actually got to agree. if sometimes. The problem with that though, Casey, and that here's the thing, because on fight and I, I agreed to some extent. I wouldn't be awful with the 10-8 and the fifth if you scored it in the other rounds. Upon re-watching, granted, you know, we talked about the re-watch thing.

It's, you just have to forget the first three and a half minutes of the round. If you forget the first 65% of the round, then a 10-8 is a defensible part there. But you just can't. Whereas like in round two, Grasso was competing very well in the feet, if not winning before dropping her. And she gets that and then you go there. So it's a makeup call, man. I just genuinely don't think there is another reasonable thing.

I don't have another explanation that makes sense. I'm just kind of surprised with the whole uproar about this because I felt that I felt like the right person won. I thought this would kind of go back to how we looked at the Sehudo scorecard. we kind of like that that's why I thought this would kind of blow over has like well so so who really should have won that he should be the champion right now but we kind of just went nah whatever people and honestly I don't see the difference I don't see the difference I don't see the difference right yeah it's an individual thing people like because most people you're you're going to be with this fight it's torn right down the middle it's 50 50 like either you scored

to draw like you could be the one person that scored to draw like Mike Bell but it is torn down the middle whether or not Schochenko or Grasso won the fourth round and that's what it all comes down to. You have to look far and wide to find people without Henry Sehudo beat Al Jermaine Sterling.

So that's like, that's different, I guess, to me, but still, I mean, it is what it is. Like nothing's going to change. Like nothing we say here, no matter how we feel about the scorecard, like Valentina Schochenko is not going to be the flyweight champion in three days.

It's just not going to work that way. She's going to have to fight election. So again, that's for sure. There are two other things I want to talk about before you move on. One, Jed, you mentioned Dana White. You said that you disagreed with some of the things he said. At least he responded and said what all of us were thinking, but Ariel was on the MA hour yesterday.

They ran through the video and he agreed with 99.9% of what Dana White had to say. It doesn't seem like you agreed with that much of what Dana had to say in regards to this whole situation. Why? Sorry. I'm just saying he's objectively wrong with his definition of what a 10-8 is. And he has apparently, like, this has been a long-held view that he believes a 10-8 should specifically be what are functionally 10-7 rounds under the scoring system where, oh, man,

somebody is just truly getting pummeled in there. That's a 10-8 round. That's objectively incorrect per the rules and also, like, pretty dumb because not all rounds are equal. So if that's your approach, you are, I mean, I guess I can't say dumb because, you know, to each their own flavor profile, I suppose. But like if that's your thought, then you are opening up a world where winning one round very decisively, but not dominantly, does it mean anything versus like winning two rounds by the length of one jab or whatever? Like that's, and that's insane.

That's not how anyone would reflect on a fight at any point in their life and be like, well, that dude for 10 minutes, he was just slightly ahead. And then for five got the got really just the wood put to him, but not like almost beat to death. So I think the other guy wins. Like, that's just not reasonable. So I think he's just objectively wrong on what he's saying. And then his like vibes are totally off. Like, why would you want that?

we should want a diversity of scores to encompass the totality of what rounds can be. Because this isn't boxing. Like there isn't a knockdown mechanism. Five minutes is so much longer than three that having every round be functionally the same unless one of them is nearly of stoppage feels really, really silly to me. I agree with you on that aspect. I think there should be more 10-8s. I think there should be more 10-10s.

Like you can make a case. A thousand percent. 10 10. I've made that argument for years, Mike, and everyone hates it because everyone hates the idea of a draw. And I don't, I used to get in this argument with like, well, respected people in this base, like, well, it's the judge's job to differentiate between which of these matters. I'm like, why? Why do I care if a fighter wins the round by one punch? Like, well, they were slightly more. No, I think 1010 should be the default score and you need to do something to see.

stand out and say, I have clearly won this round. This round is mine. And then we can go back to it because why wouldn't we just sort of presume that everything's relatively equal? Because that's how the world would work. So I'm with you. I think we should have a lot more 10-10s. I think 10-9s should be, you know, very clear wins.

And 10-8s, then if we're doing that, then okay, I'm fine with Dana's interpretation of 10-8s or real ass-beatens. A-OK with that scoring. Yeah. Can you imagine how different the conference? conversation would be if this was still a split draw, but Mike Bell scored round four 10, 10, and got there that way. This is a much different conversation.

I would be, I'd probably be applauding him for it. I'd be totally fine with the 1010 round four. And that's like, I was thinking about this this week, right? And I don't know that you could do this for pretty obvious reasons, but somebody, I don't remember who, but like, you know what NFL replay works, Mike, where it's like, it has to be clear and overwhelming evidence or whatever to overturn a call on the field. And then they'll spend like 15 minutes looking at all of the angles of a replay and taking forever.

And it's just like, man, if it was clear evidence, it would take you like three minutes. You'd watch one repeat and be like, yeah, dude's foot's out pretty clearly. But if you're going through frame by frame and taking 20 minutes to decide, it's not clear and overwhelming evidence. I feel like we should hold the similar standard to round wins of like, hey, did one fighter clearly win this fight, you just kind of know if they won it or not. Not like, well, I think I'm going to score those

uppercuts, or I guess in round four. I think I'm going to give a little more credence to the knees that Alexa Grasso is landing to the head versus Valentina Shepchenko's jab because we're not in there. We're not taking those strikes. We don't have a cumulative way to wreck like, or quantitative way to be like,

yeah, here's the damage bar and what's going on. So it's like, yeah, I think we should have 10-10s all the time and put the onus on the fighters to separate themselves, to differentiate themselves, to really set a standard to be like, hey, I've clearly won this, this round is mine. And now it's on my opponent to win one back, because I'm ahead. Oh, man, can you imagine what post, can you imagine what post-fight shows would be like if we had like round reviews at the end? Oh, but it's a split draw,

grouse us for the champion. Oh, no, but this one's going to be reviewed. And then we had to wait, we have to wait like a half hour for the, oh, my God, would that be so? It would be incredible. Last thing I want to ask you about this, because for a while now, Tyson Chartier, who is the headman over at the New England Cartel, manager, coach extraordinaire, he's been talking about a scoring system that he has sort of put together, and it stemmed from Calvin Cater getting an egregious Chris Lee scorecard. I thought Calvin Cater clearly won round four against Josh Emmett.

Chris Lee was like the one person on earth who felt otherwise. and a lot of people felt like Cater kind of got screwed because of that scorecard. But this is what he is implemented. And I don't love all this, but I like a lot of it. One, each round winner is determined by a judge's majority, meaning at least two of the three judges score the round for you. Majority winner of round gets one point. Loser gets zero or less minus one for a traditional 10-8 round, etc.

Open scoring could care less about the open scoring thing. Other ones, stall calls available with possible point deductions to deter fighters up on scorecards from coasting at the end. No must system. A truly close round can be determined a zero zero round. Winner is determined by whichever fighter gets more total points. Do you like this? Sure. It's a little overly complicated.

Here's the thing. The argument has long been that the 10 point must system doesn't work. and it's both incorrect and incorrect in that it doesn't work as applied to the rules of MMA because boxing is three minute rounds and there are knockdown mechanisms and MMA is five minutes rounds and I don't think people recognize enough sorry landscapers are outside I don't know if you can hear those but enjoy I know that's like they did I was looking at them calm and I was like man that's going to happen right now anyway the point I was trying to make there is I don't think people recognize enough how different three minutes versus five is, how much can occur in a

round where you can have big swings. I mean, it is possible for that to happen. It's just much less likely for in a boxing round, a fighter to clearly establish a dominance for a couple of minutes and then heave it all away in the last. The changes just happen to tend to happen between rounds, not during them, but five minutes and multitudes of avenues for the fight to take place can open that opportunity up. So I think you could do everything that that Tyson Charteré did in the confines of the 10-point must system. But and then that's just more palatable for everybody.

Round start at 10-10. Fighter, if a judge wins, you know, if two judges believe that one fighter won the round, then they get a 10-9 or 10-8 versus thing. Points are deducted for like from the point. And it's just a much more palatable way to approach it by implementing a system. everyone is already pretty familiar with, then going, hey, we're going to count from zero to four. And also, and it's very, very stupid,

but it doesn't feel as good at the end of it for Bruce Buffer to be announcing. By unanimous decision, Judge Mike Bell scores the contest three to one. Judge Sal DiMato scores the contest five to two or whatever. It's just easier to do it as 30, 26, 29, 28, So I don't have any large problems with what he's saying. I just think all of those things can be done in a system that's easier.

We just have to make that work better than what currently is willing to be done. Well, maybe open scoring does work. And then Bruce doesn't have to say that. He could just say winner by a unanimous decision. Open scoring is so dumb. So dumb. Well, that's that. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen.

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the ones that happened when you were watching your movie, No-J UFC, Dana White, obviously put it over big on Tuesday, said it's an event he's going to do every year. 1.1 million unique visitors. I still don't think he understands what a unique visitor is. I think he thought it meant one point one new people who have never seen the UFC before watch it,

which is just not true. It just means 1.1 million different individuals. Who knows? It's not. It's not during college football Saturday. This is not going to happen. But all in all, incredible night for the UFC. I loved watching it.

I thought it was great. Crowd was on fire. They had fun. They're doing fun things more so this year than they have in the past, and that's a good thing. What do you grade Noce, UFC? Is this an A-plus? I won't say an A-plus just because the controversy of the main event is overshadowed a lot of things. But A, certainly.

It was a great night. You know, they accomplished the things they wanted. The fights were good. The atmosphere seemed electric. Being there seemed like it was really fun. And, you know, I'm not surprised at all that they're running this back every year. It seems exactly like the thing that they should be doing. And honestly, a bit surprising it took them this long to sort of get on board to do something like this.

My great hope is that they will find ways to do something like this for other communities moving forward. You know, like not everyone. You know, they don't have necessarily the horses in the barn to do that. But, you know, there was a stretch there where they could have committed to like a UFC event in Poland, a KSW, doing something big for a fan base that is rabid about mixed martial arts. And they had multiple Polish champions and top contenders. They could do this for other places instead of just doing U.S. Inocche, do something in Brazil, obviously, certainly. like outside of just having a Brazil card doing something of this magnitude on an important date for them like that. So if we don't get UFC Bastille Day next year, I'm going to be disappointed.

Let's roll Cyril Gan in there and let's, you know, maybe it's not in Paris because I don't know, maybe Paris is too busy on Bastille Day. But, you know, let's do things like this. Let's have fun. Be creative. It's better for everybody and it was a great event. Well, who's Cyril Gan going to fight? because he doesn't want to fight anybody unless it's for the belt. Man, my brother in Christ, you got to figure things out.

You got, you got mushed. You got mushed in January. You weren't even remotely competitive. You're not, it's just not happening for you. You're going to need to win one more. Like, I'm sorry. You're going to need to win one more. I think one more gets him back there, particularly when John retires inevitably after this

deep a fight. Like one more is enough. but his comments be like, yeah, I don't know why I'd fight Tom Aspinall because he's closer to fight for the belt than you are, my guy. Tom Aspinall could get a call up that says, hey, interim strap. It's you and X person. I don't think that's happening for you, Cyril, unless it's against Tom. Like, you are deep in the line right now.

Didn't want to go out the reservation here. Last thing about Notchi UFC, three stars. Three stars and Notchi UFC. No, not three stars. Oh, three stars. the hockey thing. Yeah, the hockey thing. Not the Michoulin scale.

Yeah, yeah, gotcha, gotcha, got you. Sorry, my mistake. I mean, the one has to be Robert Rousis Jr. right? I don't get it. Not my cup of tea, but fine. He is exceedingly popular. I have questions about how long that popularity will hold when he is no longer 18-year-old or 19-year-old

Dar Roses Jr., but look great. Got a squash match and squashed it, so knocked it out of the park, well done. I mean, I'm going to go Daniel Zell Huber because he's grown on me, you know. He came in, had a lot of hype, undefeated prospect, uh,

laid an egg in his debut. And then, you know, was great Kansas City, great here. Seems like he's got the goods to do something. And we've already talked enough about the main event and the co-main event.

I don't think any stars were made there, though shouts to Jack Della. I thought there's a very disciplined performance from you. Uh, I'm going to go loopy-goatiness just because she's, She's fun as hell, man. Just super fun. Great pick.

Finishing Elise Reed, great fight. So, yeah, but those will be my three. Yeah, it's probably Roses, loopy. I like Zell Huber. God, Roman Cockflops, impressive, man. So I would have picked him probably over Zell Huber, but, you know, No-J UFC, Zell Huber. Makes more sense than Koppel-Ov-Frimmed,

which was the thing that was originally supposed to be Anthony Hernandez, right? Versus Chris Curtis. Yeah, that's right. right. This was the this was the Theseus ship fight. That's right. Yes. Like, it's just weird. Even though I would say that Koppelov body shot, lather me up, those are the nuts. Just, that's just, I guess, it's one of the best things. You know, you got to give it for Zell Huber in the crowd. It's just hitting the event. Yes. And honorable mention the UFC matchmakers, because we're getting

the rematch that everybody wants after Noce UFC. We're getting Edgar Chira's Daniel Lacerda, too, on October 14th. Oh man. We're getting so many good rematches. We got the rematch everyone was asking for this week to talk about as well. Yes. Allie Pants and Brandon Royval. Oh, no, no.

I'm talking about this weekend. We have the rematch that everyone wanted. Marina Hotriguez, Michelle. Oh, yes. So many rematches. From their barn burner of a fight two years ago. Oh, yes, yes. I'm sure we'll get some questions about that.

We'll take questions. That went from main event to feature. fight on a perfectly fine apex card. Yes. Because that was one where Rodriguez took the fight on like two weeks notice, right? It was like one of those she spent on. Sounds right.

Yeah. Well, we get that for 15 minutes this time potentially. So. Better than 25. That was actually not a bad fight though. Let's go to the big news from the bottoms movie. Dana White goes on social media, does the whole yelling thing.

because he's excited and he should be. We've been waiting, waiting, wondering what the co-main event of UFC 285 was, 295, excuse me, and what the main event of UFC 296 was, it seemed like 296 was the big piece of the puzzle is the Tetris game that was just going to get everything kind of lined up

and all the whole game just empties out. We find out that Yuri Perashka versus Alex Pereira for the vacant light heavyweight title will be the co-main event to John Jones Steepay and then 296 we get Leon Edwards versus Colby Covington heck of a morning that is the that has been the most asked question in the history of the show when is that fight going to happen and I kept saying I have no freaking clue it's probably going to happen this year but now we have a day for that and then the co-main event for UFC 296 Allie Pants the new champion

Alexander Pantoja Brandon Royval number two Jed how do we grade these announcements this is this is a big deal 285 gets a boost we finally get a landing spot for Leon Edwards versus Colby Covington. We get the flyway title back on the line after Allie Pants, Brandon Moreno put on a freaking classic. If you want a guy that's going to put out a better fight for Pantosia than Moreno, brand roivau might be just the guy to do it.

How do you grade these three title fights? Well, first, let's grade the announcement. Super weird, just dropping it randomly on a Wednesday. Like, feels like this has normally been a Friday thing for Dana. So it's been like, here's a Wednesday. Let's do it. odd timing but whatever um i mean two of these title fights are dope one of them is uh i mean look yere alex ferrera is super weird and not a world i thought we'd be living in um last year

certainly but i also didn't think we'd be living in a world we're sean strickland's middleweight champions so you know i'm opening myself up to new experiences now mike and this is a good experience. It's going to be a really fun fight. Really excited to see Yeri back. It's been gone from our lives for far too long. Really excited to see him bring his sort of lunatic chaos energy to Alex Pereira and his power to boot people. I think there's a really good chance Pereira boops him, which is really funny to me. Like just, I mean, honestly, in the year that I have described already as the funniest in mixed martial arts history. Alex Pereira completing the speed run of UFC titles

by winning the light heavyweight belt is just, just magnificent. So I'm going to hope for that. Even though I love Erie, it just would be too funny. So that fights great. That's the main event. I know that it's not the main event, but I got to tell you, people,

I don't care about John Jones fighting steeping me a chitch. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe it's that combined, the two of them have fought once in the last like seven years. But I just don't personally think that this has anything to do with being the best heavy weight on earth or really anything to do with anything that I care about. Steve A is almost explicitly said he will be retiring after this. And John has basically explicitly said that he will be stepping away if not retiring after this.

So the stakes are for nothing in a fight that is old. and stale and like a harsh, terrible approximation of the John Jones-Frances-Nanun fight that we all actually wanted. So I don't care about that fight, but this co-main event makes $2.95, I think $2.95, right? It makes $2.95 awesome. $2.96, similarly, the co-main event is the main event. Al-Lanra Panthosha, Brandon Royval is going to be sick. I feel some level of confidence in saying that because I've watched both of these two men fight before. I've watched them fight each other before.

And let me tell you, it was sick. And every time either of them have fought in the last like five years, it's been sick. So, yeah, Pantoja's going to, like, Pantosio finally won the belt after, like, being the prince that was promised for so long. He finally got there. And now he's like, looks like he has a good chance. to actually defend the title, which, you know, this belt has been up for grabs a little bit in recent years. So that fight's going to be gangbusters. I'm super stoked for it.

The main event probably will be fun just because of the, like, the texture of the bout. But it's really dumb, and I'm having a hard time coming to grips with that. Got plenty of time, too. But I tweeted this this morning. Kobe Covington hasn't fought in 18 months. It will be 21 by the 21 months since he has. last fought by the time he fights. So he'll have been out of the cage for almost two years by the time he challenges for the belt.

And he has one win over a fighter currently employed in the last five years. Not even just like currently employed by the UFC. Hafeld Dosandros is the only dude he has beaten in the last like six years that is not retired from MMA. Robbie Lawler, gone. Damien Maya, gone. on, uh, Hori Mossadol,

Tyron Woodley, gone. Like these are just, he has done nothing to deserve this, other than competitively lose to Kumar Usman, which, you know, makes a much better case that Kamar Usman deserves a third shot at Leon

Edwards than it is that Colby deserves the first. So don't care about this fight in that regard, but the fight will be fun. Kobe's going to put the pressure on him. I think Leon's going to dummy him, honestly. I think Leon's going to have a great night. Um,

this would be great. But based on how the year is going and who is winning belts for the promotion in the same way that 2023 is the funniest year possible, it wouldn't at all surprise me if Colby Covington won the title and that's where we have a string of champions. So that'll be an interesting dynamic to the year. But look, it's good to know the schedule. I think we all knew that the Edwards Covington fight was probably happening in December based on timelines, that Yerian Pereira would either be December or November. And the Pantosier Roy of all we knew was coming, just didn't know time. So I think none of these are super surprising. But I'm interested in two of the three of them.

And I'm glad to know what the rest of the year has in store for us. Yeah, I'm looking at the 295 card right now. There's nine fights on the books right now. Three of them were probably main card level. We got the two title flights. We have Jessica Andraj, McKenzie Dern, which means we're going to get some more bangers on this thing at some point. I'd love to see Matt Favola, Ben Maw Santini on this car. That'd be a great made card opener.

Schnell Ersig is also like... Well, it's a main card fight though. It's a good prelim, good ESPN prelim fight. They're both ranked. I don't know if we rank Ercig, but the UFC definitely ranks Ercig coming off that win. It's not a bad. We actually might even rank Ersig actually because of that. But like, it's fine.

I mean, I'm with you. It's not great. Jared Gordon, Mark Madsen is like a quality prelim fight. It's not a main card fight for sure. Diego Lopez is fighting on the card. Someone asked me on a heck of a morning. Is Diego Lopez the best player coach in MMA right now? That's such a good question.

Isn't it? I was blown away by it. That is a really good question. So for like five years it was Glover. Like Glover had to have it for like four or five years. Now who took that after he retired though? That's a great question. I'm going to spend some time digging into that one.

Whoever that caller was, well done. Oh, so good. With Glover retired, I don't know who it is. Honestly, not sure. I love it. We'll get to fan question. You probably had it for a while. Yeah, DC's a good one.

DC and Glover had the bell. Gilbert Burns historically go back. Gilbert Burns is a good one. Gilbert Burns probably has it after Glover retired. Probably is the right answer. But I got to think on it. But that doesn't wrong,

it's not a wrong answer at the minimum. Hey, maybe you have some, this is some new content to think about. Right there. We'll try to answer that question.

We could draft best player coaches. Hmm. That's a good. Stay tuned. One idea. Speaking of questions, Casey,

come on in because I could ask you a million more questions, but let's let the people, let's let the peeps, the BTL viewers decide on the question. So,

fire away for the next, I don't know, 15, minutes or so. Okay. I'm going to have to figure this out. It's such a good question. Oh, someone noted James Krauss

used to be one of the top player coaches. He wasn't, I mean, he would have been like in the conversation. He wasn't like that good of a coach until he stopped fighting. Oh, he got way better when he stopped fighting. But he was still technically fighting.

I mean, yeah, but he hadn't, he hadn't fought in like. He wasn't an active fighter. Like he wasn't fighting his actively as Gilbert Burns or Diego Lopez or even Daniel. Is Gilbert Burns a coach or a training partner? There's a difference. Isn't he? Isn't he? Is he?

I'm not sure. I'm asking. I'm not sure. I don't think Gilbert Burns is a head coach, but I believe he's a BGG coach down there. Because Diego Lopez is an actual lopes. He's an actual coach too. So I don't know. I'm just trying to differentiate between training partners and coaches.

Yeah. Yeah. With MX Platinum. $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply.

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice, yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. because those are groceries and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. If Colby wins the belt, Jed, how long does he hold onto it until he defends it? So I'm going to let you answer this and I'm going to add a follow-up to this that was also asked on heck of a morning that I thought was really interesting.

If Colby wins the belt Let me take a look at the U.C's Walterweight rankings So if Kobe wins the belt They're not going to make him fight below I just don't think they care enough to make him fight below If Colby wins the belt I was hoping that I would see something

That I hadn't seen before that I'd forgotten And that there would be like Ah here's what happens if Colby wins a belt I can't believe this I'm going to say this he's going to defend it against Connor McGregor at UFC 300

that's exactly what will happen I would gonna shoot for that fight 100% the UFC will shoot for it the UFC once like look Connor didn't fight the end of this year Connor is unless they get Connor in in January which I think now again I do not hold to the USada timeline being real

but I think we're past that anyway for a January thing. At this point, they are simply going to say, doing 300 in April, I think it's April, maybe it's March, one of those two. Connor, we want you on this one. This is the one to target.

And you know what? Like maybe Michael Chandler, but realistically, somebody's going to have a belt up for grabs and you get to fight for it. Be it a BMF title, be it the lightweight belt, be it Colby and the Walterweight belt.

One of these is headlining U.S.C. 300 because they want Connor on that card a thousand percent. Colby, Kobe not fighting Newsman again. Colby not fighting Belaw? Like, who's, Colby not fighting Shavcott? Like, who, Colby?

So, Colby will defend his title at U.S.C. 300 against Connor McGregor if he wins the boat. That's freaking insane. WrestleMania 40, by the way, is in Philadelphia. Clip this. Clip this video because I want, I want credit as the first guy on this corner. You mentioned below Muhammad. If I'm below Muhammad, if I'm below Muhammad, like aren't we, aren't we being like Kamara Usman, let's go?

Like, and let's fight on this card. Because I don't, like, I, he has to hope and pray that no other relevant welterweight fight happens between now and December 16th. And he needs to hope and pray that Leon Edwards wins and that he wants to fight below Muhammad again. Because it doesn't seem like Leon has really been interested in fighting Bilal again after the eye poke and the no contest. So if you're Bilal Mohammed, like, you don't want to go for Shafka.

Like, screw that noise. Don't you just kind of poking prodded Oospin? Say, look, Camaro, like, if Colby wins, you might have a shot to fight for the belt again. Don't think it's going to happen. But I know Colby has expressed interest in wanting that fight again just because he wants to run it back with him and prove that he could beat him. But if you're Balaw, like you have a lot. You have to shoot for that one, right?

Like, I just think waiting is the wrong move, which is why I hated the Gilbert Burns fight happening in May without this fight even being announced. It's just a waste of a co-main event spot. And Belal stepped in on short notice. It got a great win. But now it doesn't really mean anything because it's taken so long to get here.

I mean, yeah, I think that's the best option is to try and get Usman. I don't know if he's going to get Usman, though. Like Wonderboy might have the inside lane on Usman though I know he's a little bit in the doghouse after how all of that went down but like some of that also will be who does Usman want to fight? I don't know that Usman cares to fight below Muhammad. I don't know why he would choose that fight.

I wouldn't if I were him. It's a hard fight with minimal upside. So he's just he just screwed man. And it's no fault of his own honestly. Like he's done everything he can't. This is not like the Leon thing where I berate. rated Leon forever for being boring. Like,

Ballal has tried to be interesting. I stand by it. Like, Leon took forever to get to the belt because it did one interesting. And that's like, that's not fair, but this ain't a meritocracy. Deserve got none to do with this game. Belal has tried.

He's done his best at every step. The only things he has screwed up are his post-fight callouts. And that's not like substantive enough to really derail him. But it's just sometimes to ball them break well for you. And it appears to be that way. Ballal can call up Drickus duplasee and the two of them can form a support group for the unfairly maligned deserving number one contenders who nonetheless will not be challenging for a belt. Well, you know, Marab still has some hope. I wouldn't call it a lot of hope, but he got more hope than Balal or probably Drickett at this point do.

So, but yeah, if Marab gets passed over for one reason or another, yeah, he can he can join the club. I'm trying to think of, oh, I'm sorry, Magerman Ankelaev. He did get to fight for A belt of sorts, but, like, he, you know, we're about to have the dude he probably beat, like, yeah, he had A shot-ish, but it was a weird shot, all of that, you know. So they can all form a support group of the people. Benny Darius can be the team leader. He can be the supervisor of this support group. He's no longer like a member of it, but a member emeritus. Yeah, so it'll be great.

Maybe Aaron Blanchfield if she has to fight Manon Fioro. I don't know if she's quite there yet. She's too young, I think. And it's fine. She's not wasting her career. Man Fioro. Man Fioro probably. Man Furo is probably a contender at this point.

If she doesn't get a title fight off of beating Rose, then yeah, probably gets to join the team. We're really racking up those people, by the way. It's like every weight class, there's one. God, but that's another great draft right there. Sergey Pavlovich is like pretty in the list. Look, it ain't going to happen. But if Jailtona Almeida beats Curtis Blades, he's going to be stuck on the sideline for a lifetime waiting for a title of this.

We're just piling them up. Yep. Dana said Blanchfield versus Fiora for the number one contender fight makes sense. That being said, who wins in his Blanchfield, the future 10th in 2024? Yes. He's right. Like, this is the fight to make. If Valentina can turn around relatively.

I mean, she doesn't need to come back in like three months or anything, but if she can come back in like March, April, May and fight Grasso a third time, that makes, you can do that. That makes sense. Then you could do Fioro and Blanchefield other than that. But if she can't,

then we got to move this division on and Shepchenko can just fight the winner of Grasso, Blanchevira, Grasso, Fioro. But if they go this route, Jed, they do Blanchfield versus Fioro. You pick in Blanchfield convincingly here, or do you think Fioro offers some different challenges? I am picking Blanfield convincingly over any woman in this weight class over five rounds.

I think, like, Talas Santos was a very competitive fight. No mistaking that. I think we all saw that if that fight was two more rounds, that fight would have become increasingly less competitive. I do not believe there is a woman alive at this weight class and very probably at the weight class above her, thus a woman alive in general that is going to stay. stand up to Aaron Blanchfield for 25 minutes.

So I will pick her confidently to beat Monofier. I'll pick her confidently to win this title, even though I have grown to respect Alexa Grasso way more than I thought I would, like a year and a half to two years ago. I don't. Valentina Shivchenko had a ton of success controlling Alexa Grasso on the floor, and Aaron Blanchfield is a whole other animal in that regard. I think she's the best woman alive.

and at some point by the end of next year she will get to officially claim that title. Yeah. I'm very high on her as well. But I'm also fine with this number one contender fight. I think that there is, because it seems like Chevy got surgery on her thumb, she's going to be out three months before she can get back to training, but then she can make like a spring return.

Grasso said she wants to take some time off. timelines probably match up to just run it back. But I also wouldn't be opposed to doing the, hey, Schochenko, you didn't, like, you got to draw, sit on the sideline, we're going to let Blanchefield or let Furo fight Grasso for the title, and then you got dibs on the winner of that. I'd be fine with that as well. All right.

125. I also thought Valencia Chifchenko is super interesting in the MMA hour saying that, hey whatever the fans want fans want me to fight Grasso great they want me to go to 135 and fight for the Bannamway title cool I'll do that whatever the fans want I will do she said that she did

they go into 105 oh yeah she said that her next choice would be determined by whatever the fans wanted to see I personally would love to see her at 135 strictly because I think Raquel Penningdon will beat Julianna Pena

when that fight happens but if it doesn't we can't have we cannot have Julianna Payne you be the champion for a sustained period of time that's that's no way no how dare you

one of the parley pals yeah not not for it uh does Misha take a title shot if she beats Julia Avila and I kind of snickered to that question but the more I think she's a win away

she might be so she won't get a title shot she'll get a title eliminator though we confirmed this last night. Misha Tate back at 135 for the first time since the Ketland-Viera loss, first time since dropping to 125 and losing to Lauren Murphy at UFC Long Island. She will face Julia Avila, who has not competed throughout the entirety of Misha Tate's return to the cage, if you can believe that.

Avila's last fight was in June 2021. Misha Tate returned to beat Manny Marion Rennon in July of 2021. So Obila has been out the entire time Misha Tate has been back for a number of things. Obviously, she had a knee injury before she was supposed to fight Raquel Pennington, tore it up pretty bad. Then she got pregnant and had a child. And now, Julie Avila returns to fight the former Bannonweight champion Misha Tate. Jed, thoughts on the matchup.

Does Misha Tate get a title shot if she beats Julie Abula? And let's play it this way too, because I saw so many people say this, because they clearly are newer fans have never seen Julia Avila fight. I saw people say, wow, they're really just trying to give Misha a win here. I'm like, have you seen this woman fight? She's an absolute animal

and she just count Julia Alula out is absolutely insane to me. But what is that stake here? Misha Tate, does she get a title shot if she wins? And what happens if Julia Avila happens to get a victory here? She shouldn't get a title shot, but man.

Bantam weight is a tough hang in the women's weight classes. I just pulled up the UFC's rankings, and off the top of my head, I'm not going to say this with a thousand percent certainty, but I don't know that Chelsea Chandler, who is number 15, has competed at bantam weight in the UFC, and want to say that her fights have been a featherway. I'm like almost certain Norma Dumont,

who is their number 11 bantamweight, has exclusively fought a featherweight in the UFC. uh julia avila hasn't fought in two years misha tate has one win in the last like seven years it being marianneur who is retired josian nunez missed weight at featherweight i even want to say like what is going on in this way this used to be the catillac of women's weight divisions uh and so by that merit mike it went over julia avila even though she hasn't fought in two years puts Misha Tate in a title Eliminator because of her name

and because it's simply a win and that's Tate can then go fight somebody in a title Wainna Zola? I would hope that Mara Buena Silva doesn't have to be in a title Eliminator anymore that she just gets to wait

for the winner of Pena Pennington as next in line. She, you know, she can Misha Tate can fight Arini Aldana. That's who she can fight in a title eliminator. Or the time is right, the time is now. Holly

Home, come on down. Let's run the rematch back. I was talking about this and no bets barred this week and I just solved this answer. So, Connor, I hope you're listening. I pose the question, Mike. This is UFC Vegas 79, aka USC Apex 79.

We are rapidly approaching UFC Apex 100. Now, it's not like UFC 100, but still, you think they're going to do something big, they're going to go with a mega apex event and who will be a more fitting apex main event for ufc 100 than the misha tate holly home rematch that feels like the ideal headliner for ufc apex 100 so uh you're welcome dana white

you're welcome sean shelby mcmayard i just did it for you misha tate wins this she gets the rematch with holly home a ufc apex 100 in like february or whenever the hell we're going to get to that so boom well We will end the year at 82. Okay. So by the next two. Yeah, the next two. And then as of now, November 18th is at the apex. December 2nd, TBD, I'm told it's probably not going to be at the apex.

December 9th, TBD, although it appears China may get themselves a card before the end of the year. Maybe we get the Zhang Wei-Lijan fight on that card. And then obviously 296 will be the last card of the year. at T-Mobile so we'll be it yeah we'll be at 82 I can't believe we're only going to be at 82 that is shocking well yeah that means we'll still be at 100 by like the summer so Misha Tate Holly home 2 you see Apex 100 get out the gold cage it'll be great okay what Julia just runs over Misha Tate though do you think she

fights again I mean three straight losses oh Tate uh no I don't think. I thought you asked me about Julia's like, I don't know, probably, but also she didn't fight for like two years. So who can say? Tate, no, Tate shouldn't have fought again. I'm happy for her to have pursued her dreams and returned because she felt that she needed to exercise that competitive spirit.

But she left it a good time. I don't think her coming back has been great for her legacy or her health probably. But, you know, if it fulfilled her in some way, then that's okay. But she should not keep racking up losses. if she loses to Julia Avella, just call it a day. We're done here. Early predictions in that fight? I would probably pick Julia Avella, but, I mean, Tate has looked awful.

She's really, really bad. Yeah, I kind of look at the Lauren Murphy fight and some of the success that she had. I know Avia is not the same fighter, but I think she'll impose a very similar game plan, but is much bigger and stronger than Lauren, and Lauren's kind of a Haas at 125. So, yeah, I kind of feel we could be in for something similar. But who knows? It's been a while since Mish has fought. It's been by the time she bites, it'll be a year and a half.

This is going to be a Bannamweight fight, right? Yes. Yes, it'll be a Bannway fight. Okay, I just, I'd forgotten that Tate did the $125 thing against Murphy. Yeah. When does the women's Bannway championship even get announced? Who the frig knows? I thought, I thought it would be more likely we would get that fight in December as the co-mean event.

than pants Royval. I just thought that might get to next year, but I guess it's going to be, that's going to be the January card. That's, you think that's, so will that be the main event? Probably a co-made event.

Probably a co-main. What would be the main? I don't know. We still have other fights out there. Maybe it would be the main. I mean, you do Sean O'Malley, Cheeto Vera.

I mean, because there's heavy. Yeah. O'Malley Vera. That makes a lot. This talks about Toronto. Like Toronto is, they want to go.

But if they go back to Australia in February, you kind of have to do Volt. Oh, is that in February? Is that announced? Well, if they do. And you would think after the success of this year and you would think that possibly Australia, if that's an option, maybe you get the return of Izzy. I hope not. If they're going to Australia in February, then Volk has to do.

Like, they just have to do that fight there. Or you do Volk in Vegas in March. like it's better than Toronto you don't do Vulcan Toronto yeah Toronto is a totally fine destination for Pendington and you give him something else to juice it up

I don't know what else it would be trying to think Sean Strickland fighting in Canada Sean Strickland DDP in Toronto would probably be the funniest thing ever Would they allow Sean Strickland to Andrews that That's one of my questions

when someone asked about that that'd be incredible though yeah if charles olivera beats his elmachachev he should absolutely be on that card it's a short turn oh i mean that's actually true

yeah uh we'll be like it will be short but probably makeable yeah i don't know what i would like to see them do i mean honestly i guess it is just going to be the main event it's going to be the band-oweight title fight in toronto yeah you could do double women's

you could do you could do uh wiley I know if they're going to talk about it well that if they don't do China I don't know if that's going to happen I know that they're talking about it but like I kind of feel like they would have moved on that if that was done right

it feels like they shouldn't it's December for the women to be fighting I think they should at least let them know hey we're doing this to start training well they probably know if it's going to happen at this point just we don't know what I would like to actually see them do

is let's just make life easier December 2nd wherever this card is going to take place just headline that fight night card on the road with this title fight like what's wrong with that we saw the success of putting a women's title fight on an ESPN

plus fight night card 1.1 million people I know it's a little different but that card top to bottom wasn't spectacular it was fine we were excited for certain fights and certain fighters but just headline of fight with that one. There's nothing wrong. Crown

for the end of the year. It doesn't have to be on pay-per-view. So I would say yes, and I think that objectively that's a good argument. But as we just went through it, they have no one for a January pay-per-view, so they kind of need that fight for January pay-per-view. Could they do the vacant heavyweight title

fight in January? That's a great point, actually. Yeah. I would actually say now that I think the most likely outcome is we get Pena Penington as the co-main event to a, I'm just going to assume that it's Pavlovich and Aspinall for the interim and or vacant heavyweight title fight in January.

You're welcome, UFC. We've done it. Well done, Mike. You got there in the end. We did it. Took us a long time. We went on a journey. I was staring at John Jones like he's definitely not fighting in January,

never thinking, yeah, because he's never fighting again. Well, it's a great answer, Mike. John's off in January? Maybe our last question, but it's actually talk about this weekend. God, what if, real quick, I'll be to answer this. What if, what if Pashka and Pereira fight to a draw? God, would that be hilarious? It still won't be as funny if Pereira just boops him, but it would be pretty funny.

I'm for anything that gets the light heavyweight division to just keep not having a real champion. Just keep throwing chaos every which way. It's very funny to me. This fight is so good. And then the winner's probably going to fight Jamal Hill, which is also very interesting to me. It could be fun. So we got UFC Vegas 79 this weekend.

We got Fizib Gamrod as the main event. We got Bryce Mitchell, Dan Igay. Yes, the rematch that Jed was touting earlier, Marina Rodriguez, Michelle Waterson Gomez. The Magic 8 ball has told you. Oh, yeah. Had up the Waterson Gomez, which I did. It's right, guys, right here.

that's so funny I love the gimmick what's the sneaky good fight of the weekend and it could be one it could be misfits boxing there's a lot of ways we can go at this

we can go crazy but let's pick a UFC one and if you want to go out of the box you can pick another one Casey go I'm actually super excited to watch the return of Muziki in a way that's a I would have bet my life that that would be your answer

I'm excited I am a big Musukee anyway fan. She's been out for a couple years of injuries. And yeah, and she's fighting, I think, the second fight on the night. So that's my fight. I'm really excited for it. But overall, actually, I like this apex card a lot. And, yeah, I just like it.

I don't know. I want to see. And as much as I dislike Bryce Mitchell as a person, I'm very interested in his fight with Danny. I love that fight. Jed? Low key banger. Low key banger. It's a good question, Mike.

It's a very good question. I'm torn between two options. I'm going to go with what my heart says, and it's Ricardo Ramos, Charles Jordane, because Ricardo Ramos is always in weird and interesting fights and very fun. Charles Rourdain tends to be fairly fun as well. I think that fight is pretty guaranteed to be a good time. But a special shout out to Tim Means Andréfjofiou,

because two guys on three-fight losing streaks, I mean, sign me up. That's my kind of odd. So it's going to be great. My outside of the UFC, there's only one answer. No disrespect to Belator, which I'll be working you. Saturday morning, baby, 21 fights, 21 fights. And quite possibly the best middleweight in Earth competing defending his title.

It would be incredibly funny if Fabian won, but neither here nor there. The only the best and biggest fight this weekend is not in the UFC. It's not in Bellator. It's in one championship. It's Rod Tang versus Superlek. Super like missed weight. They're still doing it, but we're talking absolute A1 world-class moitai in Lumpini. It don't get no better.

So even if you don't really care, if you like fighting, just tune in for that. Like even if you're not a big Muay guy, it's just a banger. and it's Friday morning, it's just sick. So, yeah, that's the best fight of the weekend by like a wide margin. And it's in Lupini, you say? In Lumpini. Ah, so it's not going to be in a stupid cage. Nice.

They may still do it in the stupid cage because it is one, but it's in, it's in Lumpini. That's, that's probably, that is the correct answer for sure. So it's by far the best. Oh, no, it's, it's, enclosure is ring. It says enclosure is ring, so. Sweet. Love it. Which makes sense.

because, you know, I mean, I know Rod Tang has done the stuff, but like you would think that these two dudes would be fighting like a Muay fight in a boytai environment. I'm so bad. Thank you. I totally forgot that my ranking, the best middleweight on the planet is fighting this Saturday, too. Well, you know, it flew under the radar because it's not entirely being promoted.

I totally forgot it was happening. Yeah. Sheldon. And I just saw the email about, Virtual Media Day quotes too, and I forgot all about it. I want to be clear to the viewers and listeners at home, I'm the one in this company who's the worst at remembering things like this. So if they don't remember, you know it's bad.

Man, this is so much going on with the news and all that stuff that it kind of just flew under the radar. You're right, Casey. The top seven fights and even the InouA return, it's a pretty good apex card. It means Fialho. It's got to be super ridiculous. Look, I stared at this card and was debating whether it deserves a Michoulin Star, coveted, ooh, Shulen Star. I think because of the venue, it just doesn't clear because I don't want to go to the apex to watch this card.

But, I mean, it's on the border, you know, it's only 11 fights. That's a tidy number. I love that number. Several meaningful fights and then several, like, weird and interesting fights, and only a couple of total, like total forgetibles. So it's a good card. Does this card, this is a very important question, this is going to test the Michoulin scale forever.

Does this card get more shine on the Michoulin scale, at least on the Michoulin board, does this card get more shine? Is there more of an argument to get a star for this card than UFC 293? Oh, 293 is more. No stars. 293 is more. But it's, again, you also have to consider the whole variety of Sydney, Australia, and what it has to offer at 9 in the morning, you know, like you could do anything at 9 in the morning in Sydney.

The world is your oyster. I think this is a hair beneath 293. But, I mean, it's a hair, particularly after the fact, 2903 obviously bump. up because of the historic nature of the main event. But heading into it, I would still say 293 was better because you know the vibe you're going to get. It's going to be a raucous Sydney crowd cheering for a bunch of people from Australia, a bunch of Kiwis getting after it.

So this very slightly edges it out. Okay. All right. I think we're done. Oh, thank you, Max. That's correct answer. Great answer. Hocker Porter, Andre Arloffsky.

versus the goat. Cote. Take all my ESPN plus money. Done. That's it. The goat versus the goat. Hit the music. We didn't get any better than that.

Hit the music. We can play us out on this. I just want to say it. This Bellator card is decent. I mean, it's a Dublin card. So it's 21 fights, which is a lot.

But they're good with the pacing. And the top portion of this, Aaron Pico fighting, Matt's Bernel, always a good time. Mansell Bar Nui coming back Like pretty good fight card It's easy

It's pretty good Just a lot of prelims man And if we get like 14 finishes Then this is gonna be really good But if not If we get 14 finishes yeah If we don't

There's gonna be a lot of post limbs You get a lot of post limbs Hey we'll talk about it right here next week On between the links Good night everybody Thank you for watching I love y'all You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network

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