MMA Fighting - BTL | What's Next For Nate Diaz, Khamzat Chimaev? Paul vs. Silva Build, UFC Vegas 60

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

While Nate Diaz and Khamzat Chimaev didn't end up fighting each other as planned in the main event of UFC 279, both men find themselves in very interesting positions following this past Saturday's event in Las Vegas. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the fallout of the UFC's most recent pay-per-view event that was capped off by Diaz's submission win over Tony Ferguson in the final fight of Diaz's contract. What will Diaz's fighting future look like moving forward? In addition, the panel will talk where Chimaev will go after badly missing weight before destroying Kevin Holland in the co-main event, the two kickoff press conferences between Jake Paul and Anderson Silva and if they helped build interest for the Oct. 29 boxing match, Saturday's UFC Vegas 60 card headlined by Cory Sandhagen and Song Yadong, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Shaun Al-Shatti.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @ShaunAlShatti Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs, with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress.

Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training treadplus at OnePeloton.ca. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. And look, there are very few times in the history of this show

where the topics, the cycle of the topics in particular, have a super duper short shelf life. And last week's show had a shelf life of probably less than 24 hours because UFC 279 looked a love. lot different than the card we ended up getting this past Saturday. We didn't get Hamzat Shemaiah versus Nate Diaz. We didn't get Tony Ferguson versus the Leach. We didn't get Kevin Holland versus Danny Rodriguez.

Everything shifted because of Hamzat Shemayev and his massive weight miss. And despite all that, Hamzat Shemayev might be the most interesting story in all of MMA right now, which is something we will certainly be discussing on this program today. So let us introduce the very fresh, caffeinated participants. A little bit of MMA fighting in fighting, if you will. First, let us introduce from No Bet Spard, from Damn They Were Good, many other programs that you will see him or hear his voice or his takes that are just so hot and spicy.

It'll melt a damn igloo from Mammatfiting.com, Jedmishu. Hello, sir. You can also check me out on this week's ranking podcast, which dropped, I believe, this morning, and where I infuriated the man I'm about to just dog walk up. up and down the BTL streets. And that man is apparently a glutton for punishment, but always happy he is on the panel.

One of the best feature writers on Planet Earth, the man who got to experience a press conference that featured Jake Paul, Anderson Silva, and Chale Sunnan in the Year of Our Lord 2022 in person. He's the deputy editor of MAAfighting.com. And a nominee, by the way, for MMA Journalist of the Year in the annual Fighters Only Awards.

Coming up at the end of the year, He's got my vote. Shot all shoddy. Hello, Papa. Welcome back. What's going on, fellas? I'm going off like no sleep here. Apparently when you have a kid, they don't let you sleep.

No one tells you about that. I'm just kidding. Everybody tells you about that. But it's very true. I'm like a zombie right now. You very well made dog walk me. But I think you have said AK more than me on the ranking show, I have to say. That's probably true.

He was very unhappy with it. He stands for the rule of law and you were very opposed to it. Oh, it's a fear. anarchy all day long. I cannot wait to listen to this later on today, but let's get it. The rule of law has no place in MMA. I mean, let's just be real. After UFC 279, we're going to pretend like structure and order,

order reigns supreme in this carnival side show sport we do. Nonsense. We're creatures of chaos, baby. Creatures of chaos. That's right. We sure are. So let's get into this thing. Before I get into the actual topic at hand and Nate Diaz moving on and where he may end,

up. Sean, I want to start the because we didn't get to talk to you on the post-fight show, and we got to see you right up on Sunday. UFC's Tuesday. It was obviously crazy. The whole fight week was crazy. The day before the card, that Friday will live in our minds forever. What was your biggest takeaway from the craziness? We're five days removed. What's still kind of at the top of your mind? Just again, it's the improbable escape and A.D. is, right? The house always wins, usually in this sport. And just in sports in general,

the House always wins. And it didn't happen this time. The House didn't win. And the House really wanted to win. Like it took an incredible sort of unprecedented confluence of circumstances to lead us to a point where Nate Diaz was able to walk away. Scott Free, man. He didn't have a scratch on his face.

I think this was the first Nate Diaz fight. I can remember in a long time where the man didn't even bleed. And he walked out a free man, probably going to be the highest drawing, the most, I should say, like interested party free agent that we have ever seen in the history of the sport. This man's going to have opportunities jumping at him from all sides. He's going to make a boatload of money over whatever the next couple things he does.

And then he always has the option to return to the UFC. It seems like there's an open door for him or if they ever want him back. The way he was able to manufacture this and sort of use the leverage that he had to really, again, leverage it into this perfect exit that the UFC very clearly didn't want. We all saw what was getting set up. We all saw the motivations that were behind this fight card before everything changed. The fact that Nate Diaz was able to escape that, and especially after seeing what Hamzaa Jemayev did to Kevin Holland, like if you don't think he would have done that to Nate Diaz,

he would have absolutely just done the same exact thing to Nate Diaz. And it would have been a real bummer to watch sort of this legend of the game walk away on that sort of performance. So the fact that he's able to get out intact, pretty relatively intact, off a win. looking it's kind of smelling like roses kind of smell able to say you know hey i'm three and oh this week i beat three guys this week i have the win over hams at shmive even though we know he doesn't it's all it's all coming up for nate d is man and it really took an improbable series of circumstances but sometimes it's just being lucky and being the right guy in the right spot and

nate's been that a couple different times in his career and frankly that's karma coming back right because for so long in this guy's career he was underappreciated and underpaid and these last few years he's really been able to make the best of it and he's about to make an insane amount of money. Jed, five days later, what's your biggest takeaway from UFC 279? Oh, man, the heart wants to say what it is. And so I'll do it. I'll stand on my hot take corner and I know everyone's going to hate me for it, but it's the Hamza Trives the best World Trade alive, man. And like, I know that that's not the popular. story or, and I know the

Hamza didn't make well to it, recognize this, but like, the Nate thing felt good, and it's certainly in the immediate aftermath. That is the thing that's like, wow. Nate Diaz dodged the bullet, like all the bullets, machine gun level matrix

dodging of bullets to somehow escape this horrible situation. But when you go, if you go and rewatch the fight or whatever, and then it's just like, I mean, this is awesome. I'm happy for him. Now we can do this whole separate thing, it's whatever. Like I don't, because I don't care that much about him boxing Jake Paul or whatever.

Super happy he gets paid. But he didn't look good in that fight and neither did Tony Ferguson. And that's, to be expected. Hamzaa Chmai have looked like the best fighter I've ever seen. And we have this argument on the ranking show, so make sure you go check this out. But my basic statement here is that I know that all this bad stuff happened. not here to forgive or forget that. But the fact of the matter is we've never seen anyone even remotely like Hamzot in this sport.

Hamzat is doing to top 10, top 15 world-class professional fighters like Kevin Holland, the same stuff Bo Nicol is doing to dudes on the contender series. That's not the real world. Like that's not how it works. You expect world-class prospects to do this to, other people in regional shows, in Smokers in the Midwest, you know, an explode fight series or whatever. But when you level up, when you step up to the top level of competition, you can do it once.

Maybe you get lucky and you do it twice. And we all thought that Gilbert Burns meant, oh, okay, he's finding his level now. We're not going to have it. Nope. Kevin Holland got run through. Like, Hamzot was a literal train. Like, it was absolute dominance in the most explicit way. possible. And I can't help

think about, like my thinking, when I think of 279, sure, it's all about the anarchy. And then it's like, holy hell, man. Like, I don't know how you beat that dude in a fist fight. Like, that seems not possible to me. And so that's the takeaway for me. He's the best

fighter in the world of his way class, and I think his way class is 170. Well, coincidentally enough, we're going to talk about both those storylines, but we're going to talk about Nate Diaz first. Jed, I mean, we've talked a lot about him falling upwards, finishes the UFC contract with the win,

a fight that was much more competitive and correct than the Shemaya fight, a submission, the cool moment, whether it happened at 209 on the clock, 208, who really cares at this point? But Nate gets the win. Can I make a statement on that? Just very briefly.

Have fun, people. And this is directly to Alexander K. Lee, who has been staunchly against it because order and rules like, no, it's just way more fun. if he if you won the fight at 209. Like live a little. Dream.

Dream for just a moment. It's okay to like things and for things to be fun. Well, I mean, funny you mentioned dream because Nate has been dreaming for years about heading into free agency and leaving the UFC. And one would assume he's going to go box Jake Paul. But like Sean said, with the way that his UFC run ended, how tough the last few years were for him to go out the way that he did. He actually did not slam the door.

behind. He said he wants to come back and be a world champion. And who knows what that actually means or if that's impossible? But do you believe him, Jed? When he says that the door is open for a return, when this comes out of Nate's mouth, do you believe him? Like, what would you rate the chances that Nate Diaz ever has another UFC fight? Oh, I believe him because whatever your thoughts on Nate Diaz, man is very, very good at business. Like, he absolutely understands what the lay of the land is, how to maximize his worth. what his worth is. And he did the incredibly professional and smart thing of not burning bridges. Like just don't,

there's no reason to because maybe in a couple of years I will want to do that. And they will offer me a big bag of money and I will want to come get it. Now, just because I think the door is open, I don't think he will walk through that door ever again. I would put it pretty low that he does come back just because he's going to make a lot of money to box Jake Paul. And then, hell, who knows? maybe he makes a lot of money in boxes Logan Paul or Anderson Silver or whatever, you know,

there are other things outside. Though I do wonder how long the shelf life on that really exists. He has multiple opportunities ahead of him outside of the UFC. And he's not young. I think he's 37. So if he spends the next two years doing that, it's not impossible for him to come back, but it is impossible for him to come back and be a champion. There's no world in which that actually does happen.

And so I think, especially with, I think he's going to really enjoy being, being his own boss. You know, Connor's going to come off free agency pretty soon. He can do the Connor thing. And when you've got Jake Paul and Connor money, then he doesn't need to ever fight again. And then it's just a question of, does he really want to go back into the situation where the UFC has control over him? And I don't think he's going to want to. So I put it very, very low, like less than 10% we ever see him fight in the octagon again. but it's certainly not like a zero percent.

Sean, in your heart of hearts, was that the final Nate Diaz fight inside the UFC octon? Or did he perform his best George Costanza, just go on a high note and never look back? Leave him one and more, Mike. You've got to leave him one and more always. No, I mean, I think there's a pretty healthy chance that was probably his last fight in the UFC,

but I'm not going to rule it out entirely. I would put it at 25% a good one in four because I think the roadmap from here, here, at least in the immediate, is pretty clear, right? Like, whatever happens with this Anderson Silva, Jake Paul fight, Nate Diaz is probably going to fight Jake Paul either way. But if Jake actually does break my heart and beat Anderson Silva, that fight's going to be obscenely huge.

Like Jake Paul, Nick Diaz is going to make Nick Diaz, 10, 15, maybe more million dollars. And then, as Jed mentioned, the Connor McGregor thing sort of lingers over all of this because Nate is starting this fight promotion, real fight ink. He's going to be able to do a real fight ink, a slash, McGregor Sports and Entertainment trilogy fight at some point down the line. It feels like both these guys have set up sort of for this and have talked about this. Maybe not internally, but it seems like they're both of the same mind with this.

Connor's contract is going to run out relatively soon. It's not in the immediate, but it's out there in the distance. And the UFC is paying attention to it. If they are able to finangle that to where they can have their third fight under their own banners, promoted by themselves, it'll be massive. They'll be able to take the lion's share of the profits. At that point, Nate can walk into the sunset and never have to do it. anything again and have close to generational wealth, right, between the Jake Paul fight and that.

So it feels like there's a very easy roadmap for him to get where he needs to go. And I think at that point, why go back to the UFC unless it's for some type of one-off? And so I could see him doing that ultimately. If he's able to make all this money and then there's something in the UFC that he finds interesting, coming in almost like a LeBron James signed in these one-year contracts like he did with Cleveland for a while or Miami or whatever, just coming in doing like a one-off, one-fight contract with the UFC and then getting the hell out again, that type of thing. I could see something like that.

He's never going to be locked down, though. He's never going to be locked down. There's never going to be a fight, fight Nate Dia's contract in the UFC again, that type of thing. So just to add to this, because this isn't going to talked about a lot, but it has popped up here and there this week. Sean, Nate's obviously a very hot commodity right now. And like you said, he's also very wisely started his own promotion, announced it at the beginning of fight week. Brilliant move. but you know that every single promotion is going to take a big swing here.

Bellator, PFL, one, all of them, all of them. In fact, no one. They're done if they don't. They're done if they don't. Absolutely. In fact, no one has been more aggressive out of the gate here than freaking BKFC. They will throw money at him and they want to offer him Mike Perry, which would be a very big fight for them,

be the biggest fight they ever did, and they would pay Nate to make that happen. but you said the five-fight deal getting locked down for the UFC, probably not a thing. But is there a chance at all that Nate Diaz has fights in other promotions outside of the UFC or outside of something that his promotion will not be heavily involved? And so if there are other companies that aren't willing to put a 50-50 type of co-promotion on the table, do you see a world where Team Nate Diaz even entertains these offers from any other promotion? Not really. I think it would have to be a godfather offer, really,

like an offer that you just straight up can't refuse. And I don't know that there's that kind of deal out there, unless it would be like a co-promotion. Because I think at this point, that's what Nate Diaz would be looking for for anything, where it's going to be Real Fight Inc. slash BKFC or anything like that. Who knows if that's even something he's interested in? He hasn't really tips his hand one way or another.

But I think regardless of where Nate Diaz is going, Real Fight Inc. is going to be involved to some degree because that man is going to take most of the money coming from the fights that he, you know, he built his name. Like he built his name to this point and now he's able to cash in. And it makes sense. Again, as you said, he's a very, very good businessman. Jed, what say you?

Will there be a Bellator Nate Diaz fight, a PFL and Nate Diaz fight, BKFC, anything, or is this just going to be Nate doing his own thing? Real fighting has to be involved significantly for him to entertain any other fights. Yeah, it's just going to be Nate doing his own thing. I mean, PFL, he's not going to do the PFL thing. So that's immediately out of the way. Maybe Bellator comes to him because they have shown some willingness to do the co-promotion thing, you know, a la Fador, etc.

But I think they're going to be offers. The offers are going to exist. I think BKFC maybe would have the inside track on it because they have seemingly an endless amount of money. And I don't know where it all comes from. But they can throw it. throw some cash at him and that might work for like a one-off, but I really don't want to see him in BKFC just because that man,

that man gets cut from a light breeze. Like I, bare knuckle fighting is just going to literally rip his face to shred. So hopefully that's not. And I just don't think it is because the next step is Jake Paul. Like he's doing that. Nothing's going to be in between that. It's just the Jake Paul boxing match.

And by the time that ends up happening, it's called earlyish next year. Maybe it gets delayed till next summer. Cool. Connor's going to be pretty close to out. And so then why go box Mike Perry or whatever in BKFC? When you can just wait, it's not like Nate Diaz has an issue sitting on the sidelines. He's done it many times before.

He can just hold out until Connor wraps up his UFC contract. And then they can do Nate Connor 3 and they make all the money. This will be a very interesting story to watch. I'm hoping the UFC will not do him dirty. the way out and they'll just cut bait. They don't hold them for the three months or give them the matching clauses or anything like that to just let him go and

fly birdie fly. But we'll see. We'll see. But we're going to move on to that other massive story from UFC 279 coming up next, but the point for round one goes to the man is bringing the heat despite not having any sleep. Shaheen Alshadhi is on the board and is one to nothing.

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from random run-ins with Paulo Costa to the press conference backstage at against to massively missing weight and fumbling that big old bag. but the UFC shuffles the entire card around him, lost the main event slot, but no fines, no punishments. And then he goes into the octagon with Kevin Holland. All eyes are upon it. All the tension of this entire event was built into this one moment. Will the craziness of the week affect Hamzad in the octagon?

Can Kevin Holland survive the onslaught and extend this thing? And we got our answers pretty quickly and pretty emphatically. Hamzat just straight runs Kevin Holland over. credit to Holland. He tried his ass off to keep this fight going, scrambling away, but there's just nothing he could do. Hamzaq gets the quick tap, the heel persona grows, and the interest for his next fight is through the roof. So, Sean, I'll start with you here. This was a very hot topic on Friday heading into Saturday on the heck of an afternoon Twitter space. His stock has risen after all this. How did this happen? How did a guy who did so much wrong come out looking like this? Because did you see the damn fight, Mike?

Heck, what the hell? This is unprecedented what we're seeing. We have seen a lot of guys come and go in this game. We've seen a lot of guys sort of be flashes in the pans, have these fast rises where they're just knocking people out, etc., etc. This guy's now fought six times in the UFC. Five times have been actual shutouts, like just genuine shutouts. Like, that is ridiculous.

And we're at the point where he is not fighting, you know, the lower, lower ranks people. He's not fighting top 50 people. He's fighting like top 20, top 15, top 10 people with this. Like Kevin Holland, I look, I think very highly of Kevin Holland. I think very highly at Li Jing Long. Like, ultimately, the people he is doing this to at this point are talented fighters who are very good at what they do. And Hamzat Shemaya is just making it look like the easiest thing in the world.

So I could see how he comes out of this smelling like roses because also, too, the UFC didn't punish him at all, right? Like the UFC sort of just gave him a pass on this. He didn't even get fined at all. there was really no ramification for what he did other than the fact that you don't get the Nate Diaz golden ticket, which that hurts. I mean, that would have helped him quite a bit if he had done what he did to Kevin Holland. If he had done that to Nate Diaz, I think we're looking at even more of a conversation around Hamza at Shemaya. But ultimately, I mean, did you see what the guy did?

Like he is going to be champion of the UFC, whether it's at 185 or 170. It's inevitable. And it's going to happen. And now it's just a matter of which division it's going to happen. And the fact that we have reached this point, It's just, again, it's crazy what we're seeing. But ultimately, I feel like we need to turn the attention over to the man over here because I need you to defend this, I need you to make him defend this take of his,

that Hamzsche Maia is the number one Walterweight in the world. Because when we voted on the rankings, this past cycle, he gave Hamzashemaya the number one spot in the world on the same cycle where Leon Edwards knocked out Kamaro Usman with headshot, one boom shot, headshot, whatever he said. He knocked out Kamara Usman. The man has been eternally disrespected. his entire damn career.

He finally gets his one moment to get his flowers. And Jed can't even just go on there and make it be a unanimous eight-person vote for this man. Leon Edwards, AK said it on the ranking show. Leon Edwards is waking up to some morning coffee. He's drinking his tea. He's looking up to MMA fighting rankings. Oh, like new rankings. And he sees seven votes for Leon Edwards, number one and one for Hamzette Shemayev.

And this guy just never, ever, ever is going to get his respect because of this guy. I just can't handle it. I mean, I, go ahead. He's not the best welterweight in the world. Like, that's, that's the problem. He's just not the best welterweight in the world. He does. And if those two fought, I would bet literally my house that Hamzaat would obliterate Leon Edwards.

If the aliens came down and they Game of Thrones challenged us, pick a welterweight guy. Who's going to be your welterweight who will fight for your life? Right now, him's at his 478 pounder. not your well-to-weight. He's my well-to-weight. I know he missed weight. He missed weight by an entire division. I recognize that. You gave him credit for it and jumped him over the actual champion of the world. No, we talked to upset we've never seen in the best homeback of first time. Now you are totally twisting what happened because we talked about in the rankings show. That is actually what happened. No, it is not what happened. No, what happened is that

Hamzat jumped over Kamar Usman, who lost because I had it. Usman won Hamzot two. I think I think I had Leon like six. But Leon still moved up several. No, it is objectively true. Hemsat is above Leon Edwards. Hontan has always been above Leon Edwards. In my rankings, Hampton has always been above Leon Edwards. Because he's better than Leon Edwards.

After that fight, Leon Edwards would have been number one. I'm just saying, right now you gave credit to a guy who misweight by basically an entire division over the guy who knocked out one of the pound for pound. Did he beat their shit out of the two? Who he fought? And here's the thing. It's just an objectively wrong take. It's an objectively wrong take. It's not. And here's the thing. And you're ruining Leon Edwards.

I agree. I don't know why you have to ruin it. I don't care if I ruin it. I don't care. Here's the thing. When you said that, you know, he doesn't, he, he being Hamza, he lost the Nate Diaz care. I'm sure that that is, certainly in a broader social context. People know who Nate Diaz is versus Kevin Holland. Though Kevin Holland's a star, certainly different levels. but had he gone in and run rough shot over Nate Diaz, I wouldn't have given that any credit because I don't care because Nate Diaz is middling at best as an actual welterweight. Pretty washed. I think Kevin Holland's really damn good. And we talked about on a ranking show.

And you think Kevin Hall is better than Kamara Usman? No. What are we talking about? I don't. I genuinely don't understand why you guys get so mad because I have explained it 100,000 times. My rankings are not based on what happened. In a different division that doesn't actually exist.

That justifies being the number one in the world at 170 when we're not even sure that this guy can make 170 right now. I'm 100% sure he can make 170. He might have to be a middleweight. And you're giving him the number one spot over the guy who is eternally disrespect and just came for one second. You guys are just so mad about the Leon thing. We're acting as one.

We're acting as if Leon B. meet Usman Pillar to Post when he super did it. You were grasped me for any reason not to put him at number one and you found it. That's it. No, I'm not. I have said this from day one. My rankings are based on who would win in a fight. It is not based on results.

If you're doing results, 100% agree. Leon has to because he beat Usman who has the best results in the division. If that is true, the primary importance of my rankings is who do I think would win the fist fight. You have said for a year that Hemsett Shemaiah is the best. Walter Waite in the wild. Why did you put him above Camaro? Because I actually would have picked Usman to win that fight until this last iteration.

Until he got one-shoted by Leon Edwards. Yes. That's funny. No, and no, I, I, you're acting as if we didn't literally talk about this yesterday where I explicitly said, actually, I would have put Hamzat above Usman, even had he finished that fight and won it, because I thought he didn't look very good. You're coming at me with a lot of very, very, unjust arguments when I've explicitly stated. You can not agree with the way I do it, but my methodology is my methodology. And you can't disagree with me that if they book that matchup tomorrow, you're betting your freaking car on Hamza to beat Leon Edwards' ass because he's better than him, dude.

It's just how it is. You said to yourself, this guy is going to be champion, whether it's 170 or 185. It's going to be both, actually, and he's better. If you want to prioritize accomplishments, no problem with that. 100%. Leon has more of them than Hamza. But this dude has blanked four of five fighters in the UFC. That doesn't happen.

And if they fought tomorrow, Leon is going home in a body bag. So he's my number one until such time as he loses or shows me that he is definitively not a welterweight. Because I did it. Big weight miss super bad. a lot of dudes have missed weight and we don't do this chicken little skies falling like, I don't know if he could ever make it again. It's the first time

it's ever happened. If this becomes a recurring issue, he's made 170 so we're clear. Not the 171. He has made 170 championship weight. If it happens again, I'm absolutely willing to reevaluate and say nah.

But I'm not listening to what people say or whatever, this general fear because he's never had the issue before. So why should I, why should I look at this as this is a recurring problem and not, this is a one-off instance of odd. All I'm saying is the general facts of the case are that beating the number 15 welterweight in the world in our eyes, because that's what Kevin Holland was. And missing weight by eight pounds is enough to jump you into the number one spot in the world even in the same month. Yeah, because my eyeballs. I have. The other guy who's on a 12

fight unbeaten streak and hasn't lost since like 2015. Brutably knocked out of the year the number one consensus pound for pound person in the world for most people. To quote how you kicked off your segment because I watched the fight I have eyeballs

and I know who the hell's better. Yes, he very thoroughly beat Kevin Holland. Just we can end because I know we're going long. That's okay. Here's the statement of my case, Sean. If we were to match up Leon Edwards and Omzaa Chamaa of tomorrow, who would you pick to win that fight? Well, if I had wheels, I'd be a wagon to use a Jedfritz.

Hmm. Hmm. Sounds a lot. Sounds a lot like you just don't want to say. Sounds like you're just making things up because I do my rankings based off results that happen in the world. I don't. I don't. That's, that's, we've established that. I do my rankings based on results. Results that have happened and I have watched. I do my rankings based on what my eyeballs telling me, which is that dude is the best fighter in the world. All right, all right. Hold on. We're going to keep this going.

Jed, I wouldn't go back to you because the question is, what do we do with him now, all right? Do we just get him back in there, like, before the end of the year, just give him a middleweight fight, maybe throw him in early 20, 23, throw him in there with Paul Costa? Or do they just give him another chance next? Did they say, hey, first time, we'll give you a pass. will give you the fight with Colby. Like, do they give him a title fight next after whoever's champion? Because there's no punishment here. There's no punishment.

So magic pencil time. Are we doing Hamzut at 170? Are we doing Hamza at 185? Wherever you're going, who is he fighting? There's no punishment, but there is an opportunity cost loss here. He cannot fight for the title coming off a weight miss. I honestly don't think that's ever happened in UFC history. But it's fine.

If you want to do the Costa that at least that fight has some spice to it or whatever, I think that's really bad just because it derails the whole conversation and it's like, all right, well, now he's going to be this unless he wants to be a middleweight. He doesn't. He says he wants to be a welterweight. Darren Till says he can make Walterweight. They seem to think he can. I seem to think he can do it.

I mean, yeah, it's fine. I think the obvious choice is at the beginning of next year when the UFC goes back to England, they're going to do the three match between Kumar Usman and Leon Edwards. And Hamzat faces the winner of Balaam Mohamed Sean Brady or Colby Covington. One of those two guys in the co-main event or maybe the feature match of that can serve as a de facto backup should something happen to the title fight. He can come in. He can make 170 championship wait. on the dot, prove to all the haters that this is all nonsense.

He will absolutely obliterate whoever it is he faces, be it Colby Covington or whatever. And then he moves on. Sean, your response to that. And now you have the magic pencil. How are we doing this? I just love that his response was this guy he has is the number one welterweight in the world. Maybe he fights a middleweight because it seems like he might be a middleweight. I have to say it's not because it seems like he might be a middleweight.

It's because that fight has juice to it. Like, there's a lot of heat behind him fighting Paulo Costa, who is a middleweight. Well, I look forward to Paulo Costa challenging for Hamzat Shmaia's well-to-weight title that he has already been given. At least in the eyes of the MMA fight. You acted like I pissed AK off and you're the one seeming extra, extra salty. Oh, I'm just messing with you, my guy. I just like needle in you because it's easy. Also because I'm exhausted.

Sorry. But no, I mean, you give me the magic pencil. I wrote this in my post-wide column. This feels pretty easy, right? Like, this is ultimately going to come down to what does his team want to do and what does the UFC want to do. If they want to go to middleweight, I like the Robert Whitaker fight because ultimately,

I think Hamzat Shemayev has to be in a number one contender fight, regardless of whatever division it is. He needs to be in a number one contender fight next. Robert Whitaker is that guy at middleweight, so I like the Whitaker fight. I know they've talked about, like, they actually want to train together, and that was actually really slick on Robert's part

because if I was Robert, I would say that too. But I think the Whitaker fight makes sense. Costa wouldn't be bad either just because there's juice behind it. But ultimately, the one that I do want is if, because, you know, his coach, Andreas Michael said on the MMA are we put in so much work. And at Welterweight, we want to respect the work. We have done at Welterweight. If Hamzat Shemai can make 170, if he can consistently make 170, and this was just a blip in the radar, a eight pound blip, then I think the Kobe Covingtonton-fight isn't given. Because that is at this point, a number one contender fight.

He's seen how Leon Kamaro three goes. If Leon ends up winning that fight, that is actually a number one contender fight as well for Colbynter fight. Colby even because then he's sort of back in the mix. And ultimately, I want to see Colby Covington fight a relevant welterweight in this division because he has been squatting on this ranking of really long time off the, basically the strength of two losses to the guy who is now the former champion. I need to see Colby fight someone who is actually relevant in this welterweight division because we do not have Jorge Amazvedal ranked in the top 15 on MMA fighting.

And ultimately, like, Colby is just sort of hanging around in this top spot. I just, I think that fight makes a ton of sense for everybody involved. Stylistically, it's a really great matchup. And it's a very interesting style matchup for Hamsat Shamaio, because Colby is very unique in what he brings to this 170 pound division. He has a lot of wrestling and he has a lot of pace. And we can see whether that maybe we could be a weakness of Hamsat Shemeyes. I don't think it would be.

I think Hemsat probably runs through Colby. But ultimately, that fight makes too much sense to me not to book if they're going to stay with Hemsat at 170. No one wanted the Robert Whitaker fight heading into 279 more than I did. But after seeing their back and forth, I kind of think Robert Whitaker would be a really good influence for Hamzat Shamaif. So let's just hold off on that fight and take some of that Bobby Knuckles, you know, some of that stuff between the ears. Maybe we could transfer that over to Hamzod. I think Bobby Knuckles will kind of put him in the right spot.

But real quick, I do want to touch on this. Sean, Tony Ferguson, you have been the driver of the El Cuckoooo for a long time. Why do we have to do this? What's next for him? Like, how do we handle this? We already had the magic pencil, so let's just keep going. The glue factory? That's not right.

That is not right. Man, I don't know. That was a bummer, right? I'm not going to sit up here and say that it wasn't a bummer. It was less of a bummer than it probably would have been had he fought Lee Jingleong, but it was still a bummer. Ultimately, we can all see it. This is not the same Tony Ferguson that we all fell in love with.

This was not the same Tony Ferguson. and who established himself as one of the greatest lightweights to ever lace up a pair of four-ounce gloves and put together one of the greatest streaks we've ever seen in the history of that division. It's just not the same guy. I mean, I understand that it seems like he wants to continue going, keep pursuing this. I would not be upset if he called it quits now. I would not be upset if the next one was the last one. I hope he just doesn't turn into one of these guys who BJ pens it, who sort of sticks around too long

to the point where we're watching Bigfoot Silva and it. That's the thing where we're just seeing this really, really take a dark turn because we're not there yet. He's getting finished, but at least this last one, it didn't seem like he took a ton of damage. I just don't want us to see it get to that point where he is taking a lot of damage in these fights. If it was me, give him one more. Give him a fight where he has a fairly decent chance of winning. Don't go in and throw him in against a Jake Matthews or Michelle Pereira or some welterweight who's sort of on the fringe of the top 15. give him a very low ranked welterweight,

maybe even like a debuting Walterweight or just something like that. Someone who has a decent chance of beating or a veteran. I like these veteran fights, the Nate Diaz type of things. If you want to give him someone who's just been around a long time

and let him get the chance to sort of walk away on a W. He got at least a somewhat big payday in this Nate Dia's fight regardless of what Dana White wants to say about nobody got pay raises. That's objectively wrong. A lot of guys got pay raises

with how this played out. Tony got his a little bit. That was good to see. Just give him a fight he can win or a fight he can be at least competitive in and let him sort of have that walking off into the subset moment because stuff turns in the lighter weight division is really fast, man. And Tony Ferguson is pretty damn old at this point for 155. And anything 155 and below is not a young man's game.

You cannot be an older fighter in those divisions and really, you know, function well at this point. So I just want to see Tony get out with most of his faculties intact and not taking too much damage. Hopefully in this next one is his last one. Sean has been the driver of the train. You have very vocally for a long time have told the world you're not, you're a guy who hasn't even bought a ticket for the Tony Ferguson train.

But here we are now, main event with Nate Diaz. I think we felt we fell a little bit better coming off of the car, just seeing how it all played out as opposed to Nate versus Hamzaup. But what do we do? What do we do with Tony Ferguson now? If he wants to keep fighting, how do you book them? Shout out to you, Mike. and the great program on to the next one on the MMA Fighting Podcast Network.

Great show, great network. I've learned a lot from you and A.K. Lee about matchmaking and how you do this. I would say that it's in Tony Ferguson's best interest to no longer fist to fight people because he is, he's not faded. He's full-blown wash. Like he is well-done cooked steak. Like that's just, he's Ariel Helwani level of steak. And there's nothing wrong with that.

He was the second best lightweight in the world for a good stretch of time. It's incredible accomplishment. He's got a belt. He's a Hall of Famer. One of the best lightweights ever. Call it a career. He's not going to do that. And that's a shame.

But here's a fight you make. And I'm going to specifically say it's not a doo-do pick for the Otno crowd just because there's no reason for Santiago Ponsonabio to be fighting Robbie Lawler. That fight is stupid and I don't like it because Ponzi's scheme. still has some juice left and Robbie is also on the faded side of cooked. So we're going to just go ahead and pull Ponzi scheme out of that fight and we're going to plug Tony Ferguson into it. And Tony Ferguson versus Robbie Lawler, two guys who don't have their fastball, probably don't even have their change up anymore, but I don't know if that, the fight's winnable.

I would favor Lawler, but Lawler has been activity is a weakness of his, certainly as he's aged and Tony Ferguson still can put forth a good amount of effort. So I think Lawler wins a fight, but that is at least two dudes who have won, like, one fight combined in their last 12 or something ridiculous. It's much more my speed. It's a dope fight. It's a Legends tour fight. Let's do that one instead. I like that one.

I suggested Joe Lozon. I think that's a fine fight. Could be the final one for both of those guys. So something in that realm. I like that. again. I like that. I like that more than the Robbie fight. Tony's not a welterweight. Like Tony, I know he wants to try the welterweight thing, but he's just not like an actual welterweight. He was a lightweight. He should have been a lightweight. He should still be a

lightweight. And I understand at this point if you're in your career, you don't want to cut weight, but Robbie would make me worried if I was, if I am a Tony person. Like I wouldn't want him fighting Robbie for that last one. I like the Lausanne one. That's a little more his speed. It feels like. I think it still do it. I think Lozahn isn't cooked and I think Robbie's cooked. That's my I'm fine with that fight. I just kind of think Lozon runs their home at this point. Well, we will see what happens.

Let us move on. That was a hell of a round. The point for round two goes to, it goes to Jed Bichu. He was challenged to defend his take and the best world's way in the world, man. He defended it. What are weight classes anyway?

I understand how this show works, but you should not be giving credit to that bike heck. You should not be encouraging this nonsense. Listen, listen, you're speaking to a guy who had some very, very strange pound-for-pound ranking picks, but we'll move on from there. Check back. Why don't we just circle the wagons and talk about this middle of next year when we've got a welterweight champion? His name is Hamzaat Shemayev. Yeah.

I have Hamza on my pound-for-pound list way higher than anybody else does, including Jed, infinitely higher. How high do you have them? I don't remember top 10. I can't. I, if I did my pound for pound rankings by feel, he would be one of the like four, like four or five. Yeah, I wanted to go higher. It would be Volcanov and then like Tremaya.

Let's move ahead to something that will have no effect on the M.A. fighting global rankings. Jake Paul versus Anderson Silva is a real thing. It is happening. It is official October 29th, Glendale, Arizona. We had a pair of press conferences. earlier this week between these two guys to kick things off and freaking chill, peace sunnin, which is a lot of fun.

But Jed, this is not your typical Jake Paul press conference. He was very respectful of Anderson Silver. And while controversy creates cash and Jake has a lot of it and bad blood sells paper views, this is a very respectful approach from Jake Paul towards a guy, a legend, one of the greatest fighters of all time in Anderson Silva. Is this working for you, Jed? is this build working for you? I mean, I just don't.

I'll watch it because it's part of my job. And I would even maybe have some vague interest just because it's Anderson Silva. But I think this is the right choice because you can't, yes, controversy sells. You also can't be fake in this game. Like people are bad and stupid at a lot of things, but mostly people are intuitive enough to believe,

like to understand when somebody's just talking. Totally full of crap. And that's, I mean, that's basically why Colby Covington's whole thing hasn't really worked, right? Like, he's never really gotten over with the fans because it's, it's so obviously a gimmick. And it's not even like a Chale Sunn and wink, wink, I'm in with you on it gimmick. It's he, he just comes off as a poser. And so you can't do that. And I think it would be pretty clearly contrived.

I think Jake Paul understands that. And so instead it's this. It's, hey, he's awesome. As a guy I look up to, I'm going to try and knock him out. And it's probably not going to sell as much as if there was a general enmity here, but you can't fabricate that. So I think they're playing it the right way. I have a loose interest just because I desperately hope any distance and Silva wins this fight. But I think there's very likely, maybe not very likely, but I do think it is very plausible that he doesn't win this fight.

And so it's fine. I do. Jake had a couple of good lines in the presser yesterday. Yeah, all of my other ones, I've been fighting assholes. So I treated them like assholes as like a good line. But yeah, it's just sort of weird and tame. And maybe it'll ratchet up a little bit in the next coming in the coming weeks. Because, you know, I vaguely recall the Mayweather McGregor stuff being pretty genial at first as well before the world tour just kind of sent it into a spiral of whatever that was.

So maybe that's what happens here, but it's fine. Yeah, once we got to Toronto, the wheels came off that train real quick. But, Sean, you were there. You were there the other day for the Glendale one. But you also got to speak to both men in the scrums after the fact. Did it change how you feel about this fight in any way, being around these guys, seeing the respect, going both ways. No, not particularly.

I mean, ultimately, I think it's just cool to see Anderson be so happy. Honestly, if I have any takeaways from sort of interacting with both these dudes and just being around that environment earlier this week, and it's just a happy guy now. And it seems like there's a lightness to him that we didn't see at the end of that UFC run.

This is someone who, for the majority of his prime, in one of the greatest fighters of all time, obviously, he really existed as a i don't know i don't know the proper word that i'm looking for but just he was he was someone who loved the game so much and that was like really his essence was he just his love of the martial arts his love of the game and we saw that slowly wilt and die and whither at the end of his ufc run where he's going on this this nine-fight run where he wins like one time and loses seven of them and gets knocked out a couple different times like and the ufc still throwing him up against like riah hall and stuff like this at the end of the run where you can't just give

this guy a layup like you still have to give him a top 15 top top 10 middleweight like just give this guy someone someone that he could style on so we can see what we want to see out of Anderson and so it was apparent how he felt at the end of that run that he got basically used and abused and he was just stuck in this situation and he had to find his way out but now that he is in boxing it really feels like he is having a good time again he is enjoying himself he's taking the opportunities that he wants to do and ultimately i think it's cool that he's taking this opportunity because it does seem like one where it's nice to see that see the different side of Jake. I don't really care

one way or another about Jake Paul, but it is nice to see him respect this legend, because if he was coming out, guns blazing like it was against Tyrant or Ben or whoever and really trying to fire shots at Anderson, I feel like it would just look a certain way. That would be very bizarre, because, like, how do you, how do you do that to old man Anderson? Like, this is

a man who obviously deserves respect. Like, you can't talk shit to this guy. Like, he's just the happiest guy in the world over there, smiling, saying wow to every question. Like, he's just a great dude over there. You can't disrespect him in that capacity. So I don't know, it's just fun to see Anderson, I think, having fun.

And ultimately, I sort of side with Jed on a lot of this of where just like, I hope that Anderson doesn't lose this fight. I hope if he does lose that, he doesn't get knocked out because I'll be there. It's in Glendale, so I'll be there. And that'll really hurt my soul to see. But ultimately, like, it is what it is. I'm surprised Jake's doing it. Anderson is much bigger than him.

Anderson is still a very capable fighter. it's easily the most competitive version of this Jake Paul circus that we have seen. And I will add one other note that I'm really glad Showtime involved Chale Sondon, because this was like to me the coolest part of the whole two-day tour that we just did was seeing the Chale and Anderson interactions because there was a moment like 12 years ago, if you would have suggested to someone, go back in time 12 years ago and suggest like, hey, these two guys are not only going to be like on good terms, but they're going to be pretty friendly with each other and hug in and telling stories.

that person would have just thought you were crazy. Like, there would have been no possible way that we ever landed in a timeline where that's happening because their rivalry was so fiery and it was so heated and it was so contentious. And it just dominated this sport for like two or three years. It elevated them both to levels of superstardom that was previously unheard of for both guys. And it just felt like they were going to be the two forever at each other's throats. And to now see them as kind of like old men talking about old times.

And when I did my interview with Chale, he had a really interesting, I thought, perspective on how, you know, when Anderson's career dies, mine dies. And he still feels inextricably linked to sort of Anderson and this run that he's still holding on to at age 47. And it was just a very cool perspective to hear from Chale. And I just loved everything about their interactions the whole week. The barbecue talk in L.A.

Like, I thought all that was very cool. It's eight rounds, right? This is an eight round fight? I believe so, yeah. I've never wanted a draw so badly where Anderson doesn't lose but then Nate can still get a still significantly big fight with Jake Paul

be the guy that could potentially be the first to beat him. I don't think he would, but I actually think a draw would be like the best case scenario here. A competitive fight, not like what we saw in Tampa because that fight was frigging terrible until Jake Paul knocked out Tyrod Woodley but that was just one of the worst fights I've ever seen

until the knockout. But just a competitive fight, respect shown, a draw, everybody wins, nobody wins, but we all win at the same time. So we're going to move on because the second round was like 15 minutes past time. The point for round three goes to Sean Elshadie, very poetic, if you will. It is two to one. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous

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Can I just quickly break the fourth wall real quick? I know we're pressed on time. Casey, our

producer, actually got to do a face-off with Anderson at one of of these press stops in LA and like I can't imagine Casey like what's it like looking at that dudes in the in the eyes when he's

like turned on like it's serious like it's not a joke anymore and he's all of a sudden why didn't you ask Anderson you should ask Anderson what was like looking in Casey's eyes at the 3024 Anderson's lost Casey hasn't just saying Mr. Man who's all about results those are facts those are facts I mean I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say jazz line you were right Anderson is at least right now, because he's not cutting weight to 186 or whatever the fight's supposed to be at, Anderson's big. He was actually much bigger than when I thought he was going to be. And this is like him, you know, no shirt on just his boxing shorts on. And yeah, the big thing, it was, Anderson was very, you know, yeah, you know, Anderson, very Anderson.

But then as soon as Esther said, oh, here, we're going to do kind of fake face-off photos. Can you look at my assistant? And I was standing there. And, you know, I kind of put my hands up. And I thought Anderson was going to be kind of jokingly, but man, as soon as he did that, he's giving it to you. He's just locked in like that. And I was just like, ha, ha, ha. And I thought he would laugh to.

Nope. It was just like, I got, I legit got like, I feel like I insulted him by even looking directly in his eyes. Let me just say that. Like, it was an insulted look at him. So I guess that sums it up. It was, um, yeah. Oh, that's terrifying. Yeah, it was terrifying, but freaking awesome at the same time.

Yeah. Yeah, he's a big dude. Anderson's a big guy. So let's move on and fast forward to this Saturday, because the UFC is back in the wonderful, dynamic, boisterous UFC Apex. The hangover from UFC 279 is still real. There are some fights that stick out. We got a very competitive main event between Corey Sanhagan and Song You Dong.

Top three fights are pretty good, but Sean, top to bottom, how are you feeling about this one? We're coming off 279, all the storylines. We were exhausted before that freaking fight card even began on Saturday. And now we have to fast forward another week. Here we are. What do you think of this card? Are you excited?

Are you giddy for UFC Vegas 60? I'm just brimming with excitement, Mike. Can't you tell? I'm just so excited. I'm giddy. I'm overwhelmed by it. I can't. No, it's a terrible card.

It's a crap card. Like, it's a one-fight card. It is. It's a really, really bad card. Like, we've been getting quite a few bad cards. This is very high on the list of bad cards. The top fight is incredible, right? Like, Cori San Hagan's Song Yidong is a monster fight. I'm really looking forward to that.

I've been high on Song Yonong for a long time. I think he has a really cool backstory, too, of just growing up in, like, this monk temple and sort of basically living an entire life of martial arts. And I've said for a long time, I think Corey San Hagan is going to be a champion in his division at some point. maybe I'm getting maybe that take in that stock is at its all time lowest right now but ultimately

I still feel really good about that that prediction I think at some point he's going to take it but other than that like this card is what it is I'm sure it'll be fun I'm sure it'll be fine it seems like lately these really terrible one-fight cards end up actually just being full of of fun finishes and they're almost like regional cards in that sense where if you go to like your local regional card on a Saturday or a Friday it's a lot of like fun action and stuff I'm sure we're going to get some of that but just in terms of name value and actual you know know, ramifications and stakes and things, results that matter in guys that we're going to be talking about

as top 10 guys in the world. This is not it. Jed, is this a skip the barbecue, skip the college football slate kind of card for you? I can tell by the face that, you know, maybe it is. I mean, the college football slates kind of ass this weekend as well. So it depends on how, like, keyed up you are to watch your home team. This didn't skip anything.

This card is. it's 14 fights let's just start there that's so many fights it is generously an early card it's 4 p.m. start time which is lovely but when you have 14 fights it's almost like it doesn't matter you're not getting yourself any extra because you're just loading fights we don't need this many now granted aspen ladd is is fighting so like that fight could fall off the card at any point time. But that's one of the better fights on the card. So if we lose that fight that sucks, also let me be clear, that's not a good fight. It's just one of the better ones and certainly the most significant fight on the card outside of the main event, basically. So like we don't

want to lose the things that are valuable, even if losing anything would at least trim us down to make us a little leaner and more palatable. I think the co-made event will be pretty fun just because Robocop's really fun, dude. All of his fights have been pretty fun, so that's okay. Is Andre Feely watched? I don't know. How interested are you in answering that question? That will determine your level of interest here.

We've got some heavyweights on the main card. Always a good time to put heavy weights anywhere in a fight card. It's just a bad card, man. maybe like Sean said we get a regional outcome with a bunch of finishes but like that doesn't make the card better it doesn't make this more enjoyable it is coming off the heels of 279 which was a really really bad card on paper as well but at least when we got the switchovers it it felt better we were happier about it it gave us big storylines and honestly that's the biggest my single biggest issue with this card what are the stories here next week when we're doing this and I've defeated John Alshaddy and I'm facing whoever whatever Gibroni you want to roll up here to get dunked on cool what are the four questions you're going to have because it can be all right well Corey Sanhagen song y dong was dope uh where do we go from here and there's nothing else like barring something unbelievably cool happening on this card like

we're not going to be talking about Bill Algeo or Alan Amadowski like It's just not a thing that's going to happen. So it feels so empty. It is such a, we got to get 42 events per year up on ESPN to hit our obligations. Here you go. Main event's incredibly fun. But like, if the main event falls through, knock on wood, don't want that to happen. Don't do that.

Who is stepping in? Don't do that. Who is taking the main event here? You're not putting cheating in Jokawani versus Gregoroggi as the main event of a fight night card. I guess it has to be Aspen Ladd-Sair McMahon, but like, holy hell, man, this is a tough one. I say it a lot, and a lot of fans get mad at me because I'm yucking their y'am. I never want to yuck your y'am, guys.

If you want to watch this, have at it. I love you for it. I love your enthusiasm about the sport. All I'm saying is if you have other things to do, totally do them. This one is one you can skip, and you can go to MMAfighting.com. It's a great website, and we're going to have live coverage. We're going to have live blogs. We're going to have all of the limited stories coming out of this for you to catch up on.

You can see the highlights and you can spend time with your family if that's something you choose to do. Now, if you don't have anything else to do on Saturday night, it's fistfights. You know, it's totally fine. I'm just saying if it were me and I didn't have to work this, I might choose to go to go to MAPFrient.com great website to stay up to date on all the things that happen, while also being social with my friends on a Saturday evening. I mean, first of all, let me say,

forget your family, hang out with us. Where are your family? We're your real family. We love you so much. Also, we have to mention, the man who has one of the greatest BTL appearances of all time is fighting on this card, Damon Jackson,

undefeated, did the whole show while running a damn treadmill. That man thoroughly beat me while running a treadmill. We have to give that man some props. He was fighting this. But he's going to lose because that's going to be the fight. That's your loki banger. I don't know if we're doing that, Mike, but I know for a fact that was your loki ban. Well, that's the answer.

Yeah. Pat 17. Yeah. So we'll end with this. Jed, we're going to play a game at True or False. I know it's cliche to ask a question like this when it comes to two guys and two gals fighting. Every fight is a must win. True or false, this is a must, must, must win for Corey Sandhagen.

Ooh. Yeah, I'm going to say true, which I think maybe is a bit bold just because I'm about to look up. He's 30. Okay, I thought he was maybe a little younger. The issue is if he loses this fight, it's because Song Yadong has arrived. Like, I think this kid has a very bright future, but he is only 24. So like, I don't think he's there yet. I think we've seen development from him, but he has shown nothing to make. me think he beats Corey Sandoagin. But if he does, it's because he took the leap. And if he took the leap, that's a problem for anybody at Bannonweight. Like just real talk, that dude will be a handful if he makes that big next step up in competition. So at that point, that doesn't mean that a loss for Corey Sandoagin keeps him out of fighting for a title one day. But it does make it unlikely he ever wins the title because Songya Dong is now going to be the guy ahead of him, along with, I mean, we all saw the Aljo fight,

even if maybe we think it would go somewhat different, it's hard to pick him to beat Al Jemaine Sterling in a rematch given how thoroughly just rinsed he was in that. So that puts two dudes clearly ahead of him in the pecking order. So I'm going to say that this is a must win for him. Sean, do you agree, true false. I mean, not just must win. This is a half to have it,

because if he loses, and no matter how you feel about the T. Dilloshaw fight. That's three straight L's and that'll put him at two and four over his last six. Especially in this division, man, where there's so much happening in so many big fights that continuously are being booked. You got the Marabes,

you get the Marlon Varas, and if Song beats him, man, it's a long road back. Is this about as must win as it gets for this guy? Must win? I don't think so. I mean, I think Corey Stanhagan is young enough and has enough in front of him to be able to build back if he does lose. but it certainly would set him back a long way, right?

Because at this point, if you look at sort of his run in the UFC, I think he won the Dillishaw fight. I think a lot of people felt like he won the Dillishaw fight. I know on Wikipedia, it's a Red Elb. But in my eyes, that was a win. So if you discount that, he's really only lost to Peter Yon and Al Jermaine Sterling. And those are the two guys who,

I think all of us would say, are the two best bantam weights in the world. So, of course, San Hague is in that air where those are the people he are losing to and no one else. that is a much better situation than, as you said, if he loses three in a row, and then all of a sudden we're talking about him on the bottom half of the top 10

having to work his way back up. That's not a death sentence by any means, but it would certainly put him back several years. And at that point, he is making the last good run or sort of doing that type of move. All right. Let's go to the scorecards. The point for round four goes to,

I mean, just a delightful comeback round for Jedman. issue. It is two to two. Swinging that hammer. All right. That means it is time for the knock our round. One question to decide it all. It'll be the same kind of a question. And you gentlemen could go wherever you would like to go with this. But Jed, champions prerogative, my man. You're coming off the, I guess the last appearance. So you've just been here so often, but have won so few times. So it's, I won't have won last week and I chose to go first. You handed a question that was go first and win. It was like, oh, okay, well, I can't possibly win because I chose to go second.

So I got screwed on that. I'm trying to look at MMFind.com great website to see what stories we haven't talked about that maybe. It's going to be who's the number one welterweight in the world? No, we already talked about that. His name is Hamza Chimaev. In the same way, you guys don't blame Charles Olivera for missing weight. I'm such my

What? How is that comparable? He missed weight. They both missed weight. Yeah, you're right. A quarter of a pound is the same as 10 pounds or seven pounds. It's,

sorry, it is what it is. I'm stalling, so I'll take the second. Clearly. You go on second. Sorry, it's a binary. You make weighty, you don't, Sean. I was kind of hoping you would go first,

but I will turn it over to, Shaheen, he will go first. And what many people probably know by now, if you listen to the ranking show every month, Sean is without Sean, without AK, we're probably not doing what we're doing right now. Sean has to take care of a parent, but on rankings time,

Sean has to take care of the whole staff. He is constantly poking and prodding us to get our rankings in time to do all of these things. So he is, no one is more aware of what is going on at these rankings than this span. So what Shaheen might have seen, seen since the pound for pound rankings have come out, people be upset. People have been throwing out some fire. They have been throwing out some takes questioning the ability, questioning the only

rankings that matter in all of mixed martial arts. So, Sean, you're basically one of the co-chairs of the MA Fighting Global Rankings. In one minute, I want you to tell all these people, all these negative nancies, why they are wrong to question us. What did we do? wrong in these pound for pound rankings because I feel like we've done nothing wrong. One minute on the clock. Go. I'm not sure I understand what you're asking me to do here. You're asking me to defend the whole website?

You're defending our pound for pound ranking, Sean. You've seen the criticism. You've shown full time on the clock, Casey. Yeah, because I'm going to rinse him so he can take as much time as he wants. I'm not higher than Oosman. I thought you guys were taking it seriously. Yeah. Just defend the thing.

Yeah. Because when these came out, Leon Edwards was number four in the world. in our new pound for pound rankings. And apparently this is a crime to everybody. There were a lot of people very upset about it. I saw Mike Heck in the comments arguing with people. I saw Jedmishu in the comments arguing with people. I don't understand the outrage.

Dude goes out there and again, just washes Kamar Usman with the knockout of the year. I understand it's a comeback, but also he was very competitive in the first round. It's not this 24-minute ass kicking that some people painted out to be. You beat the number two-pound-for-pound guy in the world because we had Volcanovsky at number one.

You deserve to jump up to that spot. It's not like we were very agree. Regis with it and Leon's the number two guy in the world. Like, Leon's number four. That's fine. I don't understand the problem with that. Usman's still like number six, I think. And frankly, Leon should probably be like number five because the only reason he's not is because Casey just doesn't include any heavyweights in his entire pound-for-pound ranking.

So Francis Agu is just completely gone. So that sort of limits Francis and Ganu's sealing. But either way, I don't know. People have problems with pound-for-pound, and it's very silly. Pound for pound is very objective. None of it ever, it's all just opinion. I mean, what does it actually mean? Because if you're doing the old thing of like, hey, if they were, if they were,

if they were all the same weight, who would win, then the answer is fly weights and bantam weights would beat everybody because they'd just be so much physically, like they would have the physical skills over everybody else with the speed and everything. So people just get them. It's fine. All right. Jed, same question.

I actually, it's very rare that I actually go into the website to like look at comments, but I'm looking at them right now and we're basically twofold. It's either Shemive's the best or Shemive's the worst, or there's no way Leon Edwards should be ranked above. of Kamar Usman on any kind of a pound for palmless. So I guess we'll just kind of stick with there. That's the most consistent beef.

But this is the first time in a pound for pound rankings. I've been tagged in some heat. So I'm aware of this for now. If there's other stuff happening before that, I'm not aware of it. But I'm certainly aware of this one. Jed, you know what to do. Go. So there are a lot of different things to respond to.

First, our rankings are wrong because an unnamed panelist doesn't include France Sangano, who very clearly is a third best fighter in the world. also I already named him I just named him yeah but I'm not going to name him because I'll throw that shade at my people's

also on Sean's point that fly weights would beat everybody if we'd balloon them up no because don't you all know the Google thing where like if you shrunk a dude down to the size of an ant

he could jump out of a blender or whatever like if we could condense Francis and Gano to a flyweight he actually might decapitate a human being with a punch if you get all that power

condense into that small package. So, Francis Sangano is getting jobbed. Our rankings are wrong. Our rankings are also wrong because Israel Addition is getting robbed because he clearly has more relevant wins than Alexander Volkanowski. Anybody who has issues with Leon being over Usman, you guys

are absolutely ridiculous because he knocked the dude out. He kind of gets to take the spot, even if the bulk of his career isn't as good as Usman's. And, Sean, you're wrong because just tell me who else. Issey's beating everybody in the top five of his division. Volk hasn't. Is he's

resume is actively better, he beat Max three times. Beating Max three times is infinitely better than anything as he's done. And I have immense respect for Robert Whitaker. I have immense respect for Robert Whitaker. But beating Max three times is like an incredible achievement upon which no one else really has. Volk is the number one fighter in the damn world. And I'm just, that's all.

Like I'm just, I'm just, I think is equally as good as beating Max twice. Alexander Volkovsky is going out there putting on entertaining performances and utterly dominating people. Yeah, no, it's, Izzy's the best fighter in the world. I'm sorry, he's sad. I'm sorry, he's not that fun to watch. He's beating, he's beating more better people.

Like, it just is what it is. You're right. Jared Canaanere and Max Holloway are the same thing. He beat one, he beat Whitaker twice. I also don't value being the same dude. He beat him twice, I thought convincingly. And I don't value beating the same dude over and over and over again because cool, you did that. Same dude is Max freaking Holloway, who is an all-time or legend.

one of the greatest featherweight of both time. Like, what are we talking about? Also, I'd like to backtrack very briefly to that. He barely beat Whitaker. Ain't you one of them fools who said Max won the second one? So you're coming out of both sides. And it's very convincingly lost the third one. Yeah.

Again, I think he's the second best fighter in the world. But he's beating two guys in his, like in the top five of his weight class, beat more of them. Boganovsky's a best fighter in MMA. I don't know what we're talking about. This is the people understand this. His name isn't Hamzaa Chamaev, so he's not the best fighter in M.M.A. I think we have all learned.

At least we can circle back. At least we could circle back to where we started. I think what we've all learned is that it's something that I say after on to the next one, at the end of every show, don't take this stuff too seriously. I may supposed to be fun. And pound for pound rank is stupid.

Like you guys take this way too seriously. Pound for Pound for Pound is dumb. pound for pound is dumb just like the go conversation's dumb greatest pound for pound of all time is dumb it's all subjective it's all how you feel and you can interpret it however you want so calm the frig down it's not that big of a deal

Leon Edwards kick Kamara Usman upside his face that means he takes his spot I don't care what happened the rest of the face he kicked him in the face it's not like Leon tripped and fell and all of a sudden he spun over and hit an elbow to Kamara Usman's jaw and knocked him out he kicked him in the friggin' face

Why are we so upset about this? He kicked him in the face. Jad him stealing your thunder here because you said that so eloquently to Brian Campbell. He kicked him in the freaking face. Enough. Enough. He deserves the spot. And if guess what?

If Kamar Usman beats him in the rematch, guess what happens? Usman takes the spot. And if Leon Edwards wins 24 minutes of that fight and Kamar Usman punches him in the face and knocks him out, Usman's still better than him. All right? Casey? You have my vote for today. If I was able to vote on this poll, Mike, I would vote for.

I'm actually like, I got to change a poll. I got to include Mike in the poll now. I think Mike just tried. I think Mike might have won that last round. He is the reigning chance. I respect Mike leading into that with, you guys take this way too seriously. And you're getting a day white red in the face.

Yeah. If you put this table over. I know, take this way too seriously. Get him out of the vice. And say that it's so egregious. To say that Leon Edwards is better. and like calling out our skill set for pound for pound matchmaking. Like we don't know what we're talking about.

Like, we're a joke. It's just dumb. Casey? I just like hitting the cap blocks to tell people it's supposed to be fun while you're just yelling at them. Yeah. This is fun. We have them. Have some freaking fun.

This is fun. We're having fun. Hey, if my kid breaks a glass, like I'm going to yell at them, but then I'll be like, hey, let's go play outside.

Like, it's over. Now we're done. I said my piece and now we're going to have fun. But relax. Everybody relax. I had fun the whole shit. Relax.

Relax. You freaking jerks. This is fun. Relax right now. You got a key more composure. Casey, we have to have vote stabulated. We're going to have a preview show sometime tomorrow. Preparing you ready for this card that we have put over big time.

It's a preview so hard. Casey, who wins? We do have a winner. So it was we did have draw in there too. So with 27% of the votes going to draw. Oh, okay. 27, 27%. I thought this was so close.

They gave it a 10-10. But you do have a winner. Your winner is with 39% of the votes and still Jedmishu. Wow. Hey. That was really close. If it was 39% was the dog. Yeah, what was the...

39% for Jed, 34% for Shaheen, and 27% for draw. That'd have been okay with the draw there. I'm curious what that would have been without the draw option. Yeah. Well, who knows. Next week, guys, next week we'll figure it out. It would have been 57% Mike. Mike really grows strong.

It's a thousand degrees in here and I just lost my cool for a second. Jed, you win. What do you want to say? You're just pouring sweat over there. I just want to say that MMAfighting.com is a great website. And that despite what my colleagues have been trying to tell you for the last five minutes about how rankings don't matter and none of this means anything, it all does matter because we love you.

We want to provide you the best content. And I'm excited that you guys care so much about it. So please continue to fire your takes about my take. to me, and I will keep talking back to you and explaining why you're wrong, or why you're right if you agree with me. All right. John, I appreciate you jumping on. Any last words or final words for this program, not in life?

No, it's okay. If this is what you people want, if you want, you know, Hamzaa Shemayev, not missing weight, and he's the number one guy in the world over the guy who just knocked out Kamara Usman with the knockout of the year. Hey, that's fine. If that's the takes you enjoy, hey, those are the takes you enjoy. Stephen A. Smith makes a lot of money, and Skip Baylitz makes a lot of money.

I guess that's what we live in. What can I do? Wow. I'm just over here trying to speak some sense, Mike. You understand some sense. You have... I can't wait. I can't wait.

I can't wait for my victory lap. Everyone does with me. I recognize I'm on an island, but look, sometimes you discover America when you're just out there on those islands, and that's what I'm doing. Because Hamzaa Chmai's about to be the champion.

In the same way I've been on Islam-Machchev island for a damn near a year, to UFC 280, baby. I'm going to take a big victory lap when Anne New was said. Jedmish you, the Christopher Columbus between the links. All right.

Well, what's that? I'm not true. I like that, actually. We can hit the exit music now. I'm the real winner, too. That's how we're actually. You can hit the music. All right, thank you very much. We'll be back next week.

1 p.m. Eastern. We'll do it again. What are we going to talk about? I don't know. We'll find out. The sport never lets us down. We're talking about Corey Sandhagen and nothing. You are glistening, Mike.

You are glistening. I am. I mean, by the way, next week I'm going to have a mobile standing air conditioner in here, and people are coming out to drill holes and all this stuff. We're going to cool this baby off next week, and you get to be here to watch it all unfold. A nice cool room. Jed, Breschen.

I am Mike Heck, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn takes you home. Thank you, Casey. We'll see you back between the lakes next week. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Lakers, Queen the Links and MMA fighting production on the Vox Media Network.