MMA Fighting - Coffee Talk: Social Distancing with Greg Jackson

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

Jackson Wink MMA co-founder Greg Jackson updates the Coffee Talk crew on life in Albuquerque, N.M., with the COVID-19 pandemic and how the gym has adjusted to the situation. Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Subscribe to the podcast: http://applepodcasts.com/mmahour MMA Fighting is your home for exclusive interviews, live shows, and more for one of the world's fastest-growing sports. Get latest news and more here: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Are we ready to start coffee and talking? Yes, we're ready. All right, so welcome to coffee talk, coffee talk. Welcome to coffee talk. So maybe some more coffee before you talk. That's just one man's suggestion. All right, so Esther, can we get a virtual hand?

Okay. And press. this. Wait, beef and everything. Yeah, I know. Wow. That's pretty high tech there.

All right. What are we drinking, Esther? We are just drinking Roy's Hawaiian Kona Blent coffee. French pressed. Roy's Hawaiian, like the restaurant. Oh, okay.

Beavis and Butthead. And they're fighting or hitting a bag and hitting each other accidentally. A little of both. A little of both. I have a fantastic mug. Mine says,

the Center for Land Use Interpretation. Hmm. Land use interpretation. Good. Oh, yeah. I'm just drinking in life, bro. So Greg Jackson, how are you doing, sir? I'm well.

I am self-quired. quarantined, so I haven't left this chair in two weeks. I shower and do pretty much everything right here in this chair. I'm actually naked from the waist down because it's too much effort to put on pants. Hey, there's only one way to prove it. Okay, we do it. Next episode. That's right. That's right. So you know when they say self-quarantine, you don't, you can, it's just the house. It's not the chair. You can move around. Oh, really? So I was backwards on this whole thing. Shelter and placement right where I was when I heard it was time to shelter in place.

So that's on me, my interpretation of that order. It went a little a ride, but it's fine. It's fine. One's chairs my home. Win or learn. Win or learn. If that's the case, that means that a couple of your fighters are just randomly, like, sitting in the cage or at the gym, like, still on the mats after all this time.

Could be. Could very well be. But you know what? There's worse places to be. That's for sure. So I guess how what's going on in Albuquer? How is the, are you, what's the state right now? Are you guys, what do you got shelter in place right now? Our business is shut down or the governor's shut down all non-essential businesses. And of course, we as a gym are non-essential. So we're shut down. And everything is pretty much all restaurants are shut down. You can do carryout, but there's no dining in. Most places are pretty well shut down. I think places like Home Depot and Lowe's are still open. Obviously, anything that is deemed essential is still open, but the rest of us are just kind of sheltering in place and waiting for the coronavirus to flatten the curve, burnout, go away, never come back.

And how long has this been going on for now for you guys? this is my second week of kind of self-quarantating we went running in the mountains maybe three or four of us last Friday but obviously it's we're not going to go this Friday so because it was last week it was groups of 10 or less now it's five or less and everybody should stay home at this point so yeah we just listen I mean a lot of people who lost their jobs over this kind of thing obviously there's huge huge health risks for the elderly and the immunos suppressed. So the more we stay at home and the quicker we get rid of this, then all those people can find their jobs again. You know, nothing's going to happen to a lot of old people or a lot of people with kind of immunodeficiencies. So yeah, I mean, everybody needs to shelter in place. And I can just, all I can control is me. So me and my son are sheltering in place. How is, how is it, what's the situation right now in the dorms right now? Are people staying there? go home or some people went home some people are just staying there and and basically no one's coming in

or out or they shouldn't be um i haven't been there in a week and a half or so uh or two weeks uh but uh the uh ideally they should just be staying in there should be a closed environment nobody coming in or out and uh yeah just waiting it out now was this a um i don't know like a hard reality for a lot of these up-and-coming fighters or just uh either the high-level pro fighters to really come to terms with because I saw a lot at the beginning a lot we're like I'm a fighter I know I can tough this out right well I think that is it right like so as individuals we all kind of self-centered a little bit we don't think about complicated situations like overwhelming hospitals or you know things that can actually really happen if honestly my fighters

are very healthy they're probably not going to be the ones that go down but that doesn't mean that they can't cause other strife. They can't cause people to lose their jobs. They can't cause the, again, to rehash other people's misery. So while you yourself can withstand it, that's not really the point. And so, yeah, I think that was a hard reality to come to is that, and everybody, really, I mean, just we, you, it's one of those rare times where we really have to pull together as a society and everybody play by the same rules.

Otherwise, you're just extending it. Like, you can do whatever you want, but that means more of your friends are going to lose jobs. going to be longer before they get their jobs back and you're putting more people at risk. So just coming to that realization that there's something outside of yourself, I think certainly is hard for normal. And fighters have to be by their nature or self-centered, right? I mean, their journey is about them. They're not, it's not, you know, feeding the homeless or anything like that. It's about their self-improvement. So getting outside of that world, I think is, I think mentally healthy for them, but certainly difficult, especially also because of the loss of

income. They canceled all the upcoming fights, so they don't have any money coming in. Some of those guys are living in, and gals are living check to check. So, it's rough for that. So Bellator's canceled some cards already as far as not, not my count on regional cards, but just on the national level, like Bellator's cancel cards. The UFC has already canceled three cards. Did you have any fighters on those cards that you were coaching? Yeah, we had Michelle and Donnell were fighting on that UFC in April and that. And I forget who was in Bellator. Maybe not in Bellator because Pico had you.

No, I think it was just that USC. Okay. So like. What are they doing in the meantime? How are they going? I guess what are they doing for income in the meantime? Well, I don't think either of them are doing much. You have to ask peanut.

I don't think Donnell is doing much. I think ever, like I said, everyone's just sheltering in place. Michelle has a nice gym at her house. So I'm sure she's working out there. And Donnell lives in the dorm. so he I'm sure he's going downstairs and hidden bags and stuff. So it's at least they can work out. But yeah, outside of that, they're not doing much.

Oh, are there still cleaning staff attending to the gym? That's a good question. I think there is. I hope so. Socoros are cleaning lady and I believe that she is still working. I'll have to verify that with Wink. Now, the UFC still has UFC 249. and they still say everything after 2.49 is still going on,

which is you can say things, but who knows if it's actually true. But you don't have any actual. So you're like not coaching any fighters right now for any upcoming fights. No, nothing. It's, I'm literally at my house the entire time. I haven't left outside of going to run an errand or pick of food.

Outside of that, I haven't left the house at all. Again, I just want, we all have. We all have friends that have lost jobs. We have people that are immunocompromised and elderly. So, yeah, I just, I want it to be done. I want those people to get their lives back on track. And so I am staying home and doing yard work and reading books and playing video games. All right.

So let's talk about what are we doing in this quarantine. What books are you reading right now? Well, once a year I read The Lord of the Rings, so I'm knee-deep in that one. And then I'm also, I, I read, usually I read two books at one time just because of my ADD, I guess. But I'm still reading from, from bacteria to Bach and Back again by Dennett, which is an amazing book. What, what is that? Tell me more. Well, it's kind of how it's a very complicated book, obviously, but it's about evolution. It's about the ability or how life has evolved from a single cell bacteria to something that can create.

such beautiful music as Bach. And so Dennett, I became a fan of off of another Bach reference, Gertel Escher, Bach. He worked a lot with Haasdeler, who's one of the most influential books I've ever read, Gertel Escher Bach. So knowing that those guys were kind of team, I've been following him for a while and reading his books. But I have to read, I'm not very smart, so I have to read it very slowly. So I read a few pages at a time and try to absorb the ideas and really think it through.

and then I read a few more pages. So it takes me a good minute. And then for breaks, then I read Lord of the Rings. And then I'm playing Civilization 6 on the Xbox. Oh. Any other games or is it just Civilization 6? I am playing. My son and I love the old Fallout.

That's one of our favorite series. So we were doing a replay of Fallout 3, which was like from 1946. Wow. It's like 2001. Tell me about Lord of the Rings. Why is that such an amazing book? So Lord of the Rings was one of the first books read to me when I was a kid. Both of my parents really enjoyed it.

And for me it is, so Tolkien was so ahead of his time in so many ways, right? So if you really into Joseph Campbell's, kind of the hero's journey, all that stuff, wherein you have these archetypes, these personality types. and how they deal with kind of the world around them. There's just so much, for me, for a guy like me, it's a book that caters to my filter real well. So there's so much wisdom packed in there, so many life lessons and stuff that every time I read it,

I read it once a year, and every time there's a little something new, something like, oh, that's a little interesting. There's something I didn't see before. But the different personalities and the way he leaves him around a life story, It was very cambod. In other words, there's the Gandalf character, there's the hero, there's the, all these different archetypes represented in there because he borrowed so much for Beowulf and from all these other

kind of the poetic ed, all these things, made this beautiful magimation of it. And then just stocked, just chock full of life wisdom. I mean, he saw the worst of war. He saw the worst invest in people. So you have this, it's a very wise book. And if you study the characters and the way they interact at, things. It inspires you. It, uh, because it's really, right, it's, and I know Tolkien says he hated allegory and symbolism, but obviously it's chock full of that from like the low hanging fruit like

Gandalf dying and coming back as a, is the kind of the born again Jesus metaphor all the way to very, very deep, you know, things. He hated the industrial revolution and things like that. And I think that's, especially now, that's important stuff to keep in mind. Um, but there's just sometimes there's just lines. Sometimes there's just perspectives there that you're, you're like, wow, that's a really smart way to think about things. And so every time I read it, I try to find a little nugget. I'm hunting for the nugget this year. I haven't found it yet.

I actually have a question. Have you just reminded me of just in terms of thinking about our histories. Have you ever had to shelter in place like this before for anything else? For an experience period of time? Not really. My neighborhood used to get pretty popping, so we would have to like kind of shelter down until the cops came. But outside, that was, you know, usually over and at night. But I don't think I've ever had to, yeah, I don't remember ever having to like, you know, you can't leave somewhere for an extended amount of time.

Short term, yes, long term, no. Have you ever had any kind of training for a situation? like this in terms of military or whatever? In terms of what? In terms of your military training that you've been doing? Oh, yeah, well, this is mostly just sitting in a chair. So, like, there's a lot of military guys that are good at that. They, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they

extensive schools. I don't know if I'm, like, tier one chair sitter yet. I'm probably like tier three still, but, uh, you know, I work up. I'm in, I'm in, I'm in a rough training schedule of, like I said, showering the chair is a real challenge, but that's, uh, that's, you know, things like that will move me up. But no, I think that that's the wrong approach, right? Like anybody that's stocking up ammunition and getting ready for like the apocalypse,

I think you're kind of missing the point of the approach. If society starts crumbling in that way and we're not helping each other, then we're really gone astray. Now, I'm not saying, obviously, if people are going to start trying to break into your home for whatever, well, then you need to defend yourself. That's pretty common sense. But like the whole, I mean, you're watching the zombie movies and stuff and you're like ready to go and you're tacked out with all your fancy weaponry. I just don't think that's the, that's not the right mentality.

The mentality to me should be trying to help each other out as much as possible. And again, if you're like, if it comes to that point, really ammunition is going to be the least of your worries. Like if things are falling apart, yeah, you should be trying to help each other out and come together as a community. I've always admired that when you travel. There's some very, very poor communities, and they're so classy. You know what I mean? You're never trying to steal from each other. Well, I'm sure they are here and there, but there's a kindness.

There's a, when people are really poor in a deep level for a long time, they can either be very, very mean about it and very kind of hustlers, or they can be very kind and offer you their last kind of piece of bread stuff. So I've always admired, the hustler to me is boring, like, you know, whatever. But those people that take poverty and are classy about it, the people that run into strife and make jokes about it, I always remember reading all the accounts of the revolution, our revolution, and just the sense of humor that the Americans had fighting the British. Oh, here come our friends the British again. Just that sense of humor under duress I admire as well.

So I think being able to laugh in these situations. situations is super important. I think being able to to take care of each other. And in this case, take care of each other is not being around each other. That's fine. But you will be around your family and stuff. Like taking care of them, don't get, don't get pissy with each other, that kind of stuff. I think that for me would be very important points to go over, much more than stockpiling ammunition with my suppressed 5, 5, 5, 6, bro, getting ready to shoot out the window. Like, yeah, I mean, that sounds cool, but the reality of that is not as cool as it sounds. I don't think. That sounds super cool, bro.

Yeah. Do you think that... I mean, everybody wants to be special, right? Everybody wants to be the last one in the zombie apocalypse. Actually, you just reminded me, do you think that this is maybe a teaching experience or a learning experience for people to learn how to communicate politely with others since we're all kind of trapped together? You know, I think there's a lot to that.

I think that's just being... So as a society, especially in our business, right? Like we love the guy that just don't give a, you know what that is. He doesn't care. He doesn't, you know what I mean? And those guys are great to like entertain you, but they're not cool to hang out with in a house. If the guy's always like telling you of keeping it real, I was just keeping it real. Yeah, we're on top of each other.

Don't keep it real. Like let's pretend we get along and everybody will have a nice smoother time. Unless you're so bored, you need drama, then knock yourself out, I guess. But like, there's something to being a team player. There really is. There's something to being part of a society. There's something to like being angry and upset and not just blasting the other person but communicating. Like you said politely like, hey, can you please stop that?

Oh, I didn't know I was mess. I didn't know that that was bothering you. I'll knock it off instead of keeping a reel, so to speak. So I think as long as you're like bottling it up obviously isn't the answer because then you, you'll end up keeping it real in a week or so. But I think that just, yeah, being civil to each other, being helpful. I think that that's, that's a thing. And we're very lucky that this pandemic in some senses has such a low mortality rate, right? Like imagine a 30% mortality rate or something absolutely crazy like that.

Like people will be losing their minds. So I think it's a real good kind of a run wherein the danger is real. But we're learning how to do if there another pandemic comes that could be even worse. We're learning how to do that. And I think it's nice to take away some positives and all this negativity, including people have died. people have lost their jobs. So there's got to be some kind of positive there. And I think that that's one of the things is, you know, being civil with each other. I think hopefully it will be a big plus. How has it been from your point of view? Because I know you, I know you're a big, you admire,

you look up to kind of famous leaders throughout time, you know, Abraham Lincoln, Angus Khan. How important do you think leadership is at a time like this when we're kind of all, told to be apart from each other. Right. Well, I think here's the great thing about the digital age, though. We're really not, we're apart physically, but we're not like, I'm talking to you guys right now. Like, it is a time, I think it would be a lot harder, you know, 200 years ago to do this because, you know, we, you crave physicality. You know what I mean?

Especially in those big cities. And out in the boonies, whatever. But if you're in London or New York or something, I think it would be very, very tough. I think it's easier now. Running water is a big deal, like all that great stuff. But I think that leadership is super important because you set the tone, right? Like the leader sets the tone of what's expected of that culture. So hopefully, with good leadership, with people even just locally saying, hey, calm down, stay cool. We're going to shelter in place for a while. We're going to stay here until it burns out. Here's the plan. Here's a date. That date could check. change, but here's our target date. Hopefully that'll flatten out the curve, so to speak, and begin the dissent of the COVID. But I think that leadership is super important because if your leader gets on and goes, we're all going down, it's the end times, then everybody will be like, oh, well, we're all

going down and it's the end times. So I think that tone is very, very important. Can I, I'm sorry, I'm going to go back to your fighters for a second. And I was just wondering, what could you be telling them to do at a time like this? What should they be doing? Well, they should, again, sheltering in place. And here's a great thing about fighters is when they're not fighting, that's pretty much what they do. Like, they just show up and train.

And then they go back to their room and then they play video games or do whatever they're hanging out with their friends. But at the gym, you have all of that already there. So it's just kind of in between fights for them. So for a fighter, I don't think it's a huge deal. The big deal is the loss of income, right? They don't have anything coming in, a lot of them. So that that loss of income is the big deal. But as far as the day-to-day, the fighters in the gym can go downstairs and hit a bag.

I mean, fighters at home can do push-ups in the backyard. You can run around, whatever, you do purpees. So there's things that you can do. I think fighters, the mentality of fighters also dealing with duress short-term, right? Like, you know, for six weeks, they've got to only eat this stuff. it kind of makes you mentally tough. So I actually have the most confidence in fighters. The mentally unstable ones are going to be mentally unstable no matter what they do.

But I think that being a fighter means dealing with situations where you're in duress, you're under stress. And so I think they're actually going to be the best. You know, it's interesting. I mean, I don't know if I'm sure you don't, but you don't follow John Jones' social media. but as soon as this started happening and really people started kind of understanding what it was I know a lot of fighters were like

whatever I can still fight this but John was actually one of the first fighters well known fighters who go hey guys let's take this seriously take care of your families take me at home and I was like whoa like John Jones you know it was just that's great

well and John and John and I talk so he's a great yeah he's a great guy and yeah just staying calm and making the right to see I think is super, super important. You know, you can let emotion override logic. Like, I got to get out. I've got to go do it. You know, I'm going to go out and I don't care what anybody says and this kind of stuff.

And staying calm through that is important. And if you think about it, it really isn't that hard. Like, if you think about like our ancestors in World War II or the Great Depression, you know what I mean? Like where the public, not just soldiers, but the public has actually had to deal with stuff. Like, yeah, it's compared to what they're like rationing. stuff out. Like they're the Germans or the Japanese are not going to show up at our shores trying to take us over at any point. Yeah, like there's no we're not eating dog to survive like in the depression or anything. So we're all right. It's it'll be okay. Some of us are losing jobs. Some of us

don't have a lot of income coming in right now. But I think that like old, the old saying, keep calm and carry on. Some British guys said that. Is there something else that? Is there something else I just wanted to know if there's something that's not physical that fighters can be doing besides playing video games. Is this a good time to read for them to start reading? Well, some fighters do read. Actually, some are really intellectual. They surprise me sometimes. I'm like, oh, wow, I know you read that.

There's some fighters that are really, really intellectual. And a lot of like to read, like, success books, you know, like, here's the secret to success. So a lot of them really do read. I think that there might be a stereotype, obviously, that you and I know that isn't true. but that they're just knuckle draggers. And they do interesting, like Aaron Pico loves horses. So he's riding his horses right now. It's just sheltering in place, staying at home, and his horses are in his backyard.

So he's doing that. So they'll find things to do. They'll mess around. But I think that fighters also have a great, that sense of humor under duress, good ones. So I'm sure they're all at the gym, like now laughing and making jokes about each other and doing what they do, which is a good environment. and I'm pretty sure that that's exactly what's going on. And is there a better companion for quarantine than a dog? There is absolutely no better companion for anything.

Quarantine, surgeries, whatever you need, bring a dog because the dogs are the greatest things that are ever made ever. Yeah, it's my dog, Mr. Boots, has been a constant companion. Yeah, he's taking care of me. He's in the chair, right? We don't leave the chair. He's helped out. how are you staying so fit

Greg Jackson in these trying times you don't have a bag you don't have a big gym to work out and what are you doing to stay ripped well it's chair squats chair pushups chair cartwheels

no I'm lucky I have a treadmill at the house and I have a decent backyard and some kettlebells and that's pretty much all I need and then just it's the nice part of it is is there's no time pressure. Like I don't have to be at the gym or go anywhere so I can work out of my own schedule.

I can wake up when I want. There's a lot of positives to it. But I think that the most important thing to do is something physical. Yard work. I think if you just sit around your house all day, that's where you're going to get a little screwy in St. Louis. So you want to even just going out and raking leaves, messing around, push-ups, sit-ups, even if you're not a fighter.

do something physical is that'll really, really help you out. It just makes such a big difference. I mean, one of the leaders I love, right, is Shackleton, and he had all those guys on the ice for two years,

and he was always making them do physical stuff. And he understood that. If you're just sitting around, that's when your brain starts going nutty on you. Just do great time to start, right? Do 10 push-ups. And if you can do 10, then the next week,

or in the next day, do 15 or whatever it is. You can set a little fitness. his goals for you. It doesn't have to be a big deal. And then do yard work. Get outside. Yeah, I was going to actually ask you about that. Like, because, like, you know, I go to the gym every day, but I'm used to having a coach, tell me what to do. And then he will see if I'm getting lazy, you'll know, hey, you know,

whatever, you know, work harder or whatever. But now that I don't have that. Like, I'm still, like, I'm going running, doing a heel sprints, but I feel like I can't push myself hard enough, you know, and not like I do with someone yelling at me. Like, as a coach, I'm sure, lots of people in the same situation. How can I change that mindset in my like the motivate myself to push myself as physically more? Right. Well, see, I wouldn't. I would let your coach do that, right? Because there's no way that you can just be like, hey, Casey, push yourself more. And you're like, oh, okay, well, that makes sense. I'll go ahead and do that. Right. It doesn't worry. Yeah, okay. work that way.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, now that you say it's maintenance. Right now we're all in maintenance space. So all you're doing is getting up and doing something. Run hill sprints, but you don't have to kill it. That's when you get back.

That's when you can kill it again. Because again, you have to have something to look forward to. So you can train to say, okay, when I get back and my coach sees me, he's going to be impressed that I did not lose shape, that I'm in better shit,

whatever it is. But you have to have something to look forward to. That's hope, right? Like this thing will be old. over. And then when it is over, you will be nice and prepared because you spend your time training and doing positive stuff. Actually, I was just thinking, you're right. Shackleton would have lots of advice for us right now, considering if you're trekking across the Antarctic, you would, there would probably be times when there were weeks when they weren't able to move through weather and whatnot. Have you ever come across any,

what are some of the physical activities he would put his people through? Well, I have a great picture of my office of him just hauling boats, right? And just making sure that they were for no good reason. I mean, the good reason was that they were like we were saying, like you're not staying here. We're moving. That's very important. So, but I think they're absolutely, you get snowed in, you get blushed in. And that's where it's just good old fashioned toughness.

Like you just, yep. But you know as soon as that blizzard's over, it's the little last two or three days, you're right back out doing stuff again. So as long as it's temporary and you are doing something physical, I think that it's not going to mess with your mind. If you spend three days indoors because it's storming out and then day four you go and, you know, whatever, mowed along or do pushups, you're all right. You're all right. Well, man, I really enjoyed this cup of coffee with you, Greg Jackson. That was very, very, I didn't know the synchronized coffee drinking was a sport. One.

You guys. One, two, three. Ah, I gave it a time. You got it at 10 the first one. We got six more months of this quarantine, so by month five or six, you know, we'll be, boom, we nailed it. That's great. That's right.

That's right. It'll be good. Well, I think I'll let you go back to your yard work, Mr. Jackson. Yes, sir. Today is trimming back of bush and getting all the leaves underneath. good for you excited all right

thank you and man hope everyone stays inside and clean their wash your hands and be smart in Albuquerque

thank you boss we'll see you guys soon good luck thanks bye you're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network