MMA Fighting - Coffee Talk: UFC 248 Edition

Episode Date: March 9, 2020

In the latest edition of Coffee Talk, MMA Fighting's Esther Lin and # Casey Leydon are joined by UFC flyweight contender Joseph Benavidez and his wife, UFC host and reporter Megan Olivi, to reflect on UFC 247. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. What are I did? It's time? It's time to press all right. Do we say anything? We're the coffee here. We are coffee and talking. Coffee and talking?

This is coffee talking right now. Coffee talking? This is coffee talking. This is beautiful. Would you guys like some delicious fresh press? Yeah. Can you bring French press right here? French press right here?

Yeah. I want to get it pressed down. So, so what are we drinking? This is a, Actually just well it's a French press. It's just a trader Joe's breakfast blend I believe today I didn't open a new box You got to be coffee those are magnets Megan making an oatmeal cappuccino

She couldn't wait because she works very hard is this one with the say This is what the say it's in our grunt is in our espresso machine So I should have made a say I'm an asshole so wait are we ready to do um ready to everyone together i know oh i'm only like bottom ah here we go nice oh that's a good press yeah that means it's smooth that means the beans are nice and coarse as they should be i've learned the hard way that if your beans are too fine that's when it's hard to press down i learned the hard way by overgrinded them too fine so there wasn't enough air to see through and I burnt my chest like two-

Second-degree burns. Two weeks before my fight and I had- Oh, you can't, oh. Where's the burn? Oh, right here. Oh, my goodness. Oh, it's really burned. Yeah, geez.

I'd had a second-degree burn, like, skin coming off, like couldn't practice my last two weeks. Not for this fight. All because of French press and the spouse was facing towards me. and you know man like like we have to get it like if it's if it's we have to go through shit so I knew it wasn't going down but I was like But it just went bha Yeah yeah yeah So anyway

Course beans the proper way from now and I learned the hard way But that's how you learn it is it is it is that was very stressful he had like crazy second-degree burns right? What fight was this for? Well actually is for you It was no, it was Borg. Oh, was that one? But then Borg pulled out. Oh, is that Denver one then? Yeah.

So the fight didn't happen, right? Yeah, correct. Oh, okay. So we never got back to see. A few weeks later against Alex Perez. Careful. Tough finale. Yeah.

Tough finale. Excellent memory. That is 10% darker, I think. Oh, thank you. Is this one, is this one? Yeah. That's your creamer one. I think we're good.

I don't get too many grounds in there. Yeah. So we have one for me and one for me and one for our, off camera. I could hit a little stir. I mean, honey usually in it. Can you just not stand over here?

No. We get me smooth in there. I got to be in these two cameras. Oh, you can cross this one though and grab us a spoon. Yeah. It's in that one right there.

The drawer under the camera. This one? This one. Down. It's here. Oh, so you can open it. It wasn't like we'd have something weird in the other way. What do you want?

I don't like that. I mean, it usually does the coffee usually does it. Oh yeah, the stir is nice. But the stir, you kind of need it sometimes. Yeah. I also always put my cream and sweetener at the bottom and then. Oh yeah, you have to.

And when it's just cream, I don't think it needs to stir, but the honey's kind of... You want a little start? One, no one. Get out. It's not good place? Hey, ladies, can you leave for a moment? You go watch, baby. This one is actually um,

Jose Young's office. Oh, Zay Young's like, appreciate the camera. Uh-huh. You like it. It's delicious. Yeah. T.J. A little, little...

Cheers. Cheers. Thank you so much for the coffee. I really wish you guys would have used your wedding mug cup. Yeah, what? Oh yeah, we actually have a... It's right there! That would have been great for the...

I thought you said you didn't want it. No, I said you guys want your wedding cup. No, Casey didn't want it. Oh, okay. I said it was a little two... That's about a 10 ounce cup. That's about a 10 ounce cup. But we're doing about 14 ounce cups.

16 maybe. All right. So just a quick introduction. We like to introduce everyone here. We are here on Sunday after UFC 248 with our friends, Joe Benavides and Megan Olivi at their lovely home in Las Vegas. Thanks. And this is Benny. He's very tired.

He's very tired. It's been a long time. It has. You know, he had to give everyone toys yesterday and play with them while they were watching the fights. You know, you had to keep him entertained, so it was just very exhausted today. We had a Megan O'Levy watch party at the house yesterday. Stop. There was some fights in between.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of me talking. I don't know what's going on. No, leavey watch party? That's very, very comfortable. How was your night last night? You know what? Last night, last night felt strangely calm.

I don't know about for you guys, but like a lot of times we're doing. interviews when like fights are going on and it can be like a lot more chaotic it felt i don't know it felt like it felt like it felt like it wasn't a lot of like crossover we weren't missing a lot of action but i don't know it was really calm great night um just like the prelands or up and or the whole thing even like there wasn't like a crazy long wait between main and co-main but there was long enough to like get stuff done yeah yeah that makes sense you know and then we're like oh okay we're going right into this. Yeah, like the timing I thought was perfect and then like

in terms of work, I mean, some of those fights were epic. I got to do a lot more desk work for ESPN which is always like a highlight so when there's a lot of finishes. Thank you. On prelims I get to do that and for me that's like the only time I'm really doing desk so it's like a good, these weekends are really good for me

to like get my feet under me for those. Yeah, it was it was fun. It was cool to see everybody. There were a lot of fighters in the crowd. And then like just in like just one of the most epic times ever. Can we just, can we talk about the co-main event? That's all, yes.

International women's Zaykins'n's ball. Oh, yeah, let me just. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, uh, that was something else. What were your expectations coming to that? I mean, expected it to be good, right?

But I almost feel like you couldn't imagine it to be like that. You can't imagine a fight that good. Yeah. And I think that's why MMA's so, great is it's literally theater that can only happen in that second on that day at that time with those two people and it's like you can always imagine and like it's a weird thing as a fighter like that's always like well what's going to happen what's going to happen as like i don't know i train for this to happen i imagine this happen but it's like there's nothing else to say because you can you can train

as hard as you want and do that but it's like you know the future is certain almost but like you're working it out at the same time. So it's just like, I don't know. And like that fight was just a perfect mix of that. Like everyone knew like these girls are amazing. But like the way it went down is like you can't write that. It could only happen then. I have this weird sense, Yawanna,

because she was saying this is going to be the best fight in strawweight history. Yeah. And then Esther, you posted a photo of her earlier in the week. And I think the caption was like something along the lines of like. She knows something we don't know. Yes. And then I thought about that after the fight. I was like, did she know that this was just going to be like a world changing or a sport changing fight?

Like for, I mean, we are saying it's the best fight in women's MMA history and that's great, but it's one of the best fights in MMA history. Yeah. Yeah. I was actually really, I was like, I was actually happy Dana actually said that the post-presser. He goes, he goes, people say this is the best women's fights. Like, no, this is one of the best fights I have ever witnessed. I mean, title five would for everything on the line, high level, high level striking, grappling, wrestling, wrestling, just.

Tough. That's setting number of strikes thrown, I believe. I don't think I've ever seen a 25 minute fight with more action second for second. I mean, I mean, there been fights that people get knocked out, you know, come back and everything, but just second for section action. So even hard. While they were, and they were like smiling at each other. They were like this is amazing. You said my heart.

Like nobody backing down right when like someone was pulling away like they couldn't. Yeah. It was just, it was amazing. Like, I actually watched here at the house and just took the night off, which was actually surprisingly nice just watching fights at the house, you know, and being able to talk and eat and, like, hang out. It was different than a live show, of course. There's nothing like a live show, but I had it here.

I mean, we were losing it. You know what it ended? Which is funny, like, looking towards what happened in the main event. Yeah. But we're like, there's still another flight left. Yeah. And everyone's like, I can't handle anything like that. And then like...

And then it wasn't. And then they knew. You said you couldn't handle that. So like during the fight. But I was literally like, I don't know if I can handle like another fight like that. That was insane. Everyone was losing it. And those girls are amazing.

Like Yawanna has always been one of my favorite fighters to watch. And I think she said it perfectly after me. She's a champion winner lose. Bell. Yeah. She's incredible. Just the way she carries herself. And obviously I think people knew Jung Wiley.

but like for her to shine on that stage. She showed up. Yeah. I mean like a lot of people, because her last fight when it was, it was huge international, you know, people saw it.

But like on that stage, she's another star. I mean, it was, it was an insane. To have that performance when she was, could only work out in hotel rooms in like different countries

and then go from, you know, China to Thailand to Abu Dhabi to here. And like you see her doing like box jumping over bed. Yeah. And you're just like your cardio never wavered.

Like that to me was just scary. We're kind of waiting for it. Okay, she's going to get tired now. Now she's going to get tired. Oh, this is when it shows, you know, oh, no. Yeah, round three. Round three, I was like, oh, she's getting tired now. And then round four and she came back.

And I was like, okay, never mind. Yeah, just kidding. I don't know what I'm watching. Oh, Yonana performs in four and five. You're just like if she wavers at all, like Yolana will not. Yeah. And like when it looked like she was, she just wouldn't. And, like, that was so much mental to me, like, cardio is period.

Like, she is just such a strong. Like, she was out there to win. Like, you know she was physically tired. But, like, there's, like, tired, like, can't and can. And she was just like, I'm tired. But, like, the way she reacted to it, because she was definitely. How much. Because you know this.

But how much is cardio affected by just getting a shit beat out of you two? Because you can have the best cardio. But you have that cardio and be just, just, just hurt. Damage. I mean, is it two different things? I probably think it, shit. I mean, it's a really hard question for me to answer because I, like, I can never put myself in that situation that they were in to even feel that. Like, I've had fights that were hard.

I don't want you to be in the future. And I love my cardio. Like, I feel like the cardio is such a mental thing. Like, I just don't believe in, like, getting tired. And I'm just like, if I'm tired, I'll just throw a combo. Then I'm not time. or something. So I always do that.

But I can't remember a fight where both were happening at the same time. Like I was super exhausted in like the Dustin Ortiz fight because we grappled like crazy. And then I maybe got beat up a little worse than that fight. But I can't remember one where like, oh my God, like I'm getting beat up and thrown and tired. I mean, like every fight you're exhausted. But like I just don't even feel like I can like speak on what they maybe would have even felt, you know, because I remember watching that time, I'm just like, like, that. I want to be in that, but like, I do not want to experience.

Like, it was just insane, you know, then I was, like, thinking of, like, some of the hardest fights I've had and, like, the first Mighty Mouse one, the crew split decision come to mind. Even the Sehudo one, where it was like that, but I'm like, I'm not necessarily getting beat up. We're just fighting and we're tired. You know what I mean? You are beat up after, but I just haven't put myself in a thing they recognize after, too. Like, you have, I know Yohanna, like, acknowledge. what was happening

your face after but I wonder how much when the adrenaline ended how much was she like holy shit you know what I mean she yeah she didn't touch it until her forehead

until after the fourth round and then she was like and then she kind of walked back to her corner but that was the first time she had kind of addressed like the swelling but that was also when it

kind of started getting bad I think that when it's crazy you when you're watching the fight you're thinking this is so amazing to watch but I didn't even feel the same thing I don't fight I don't train Right.

But you look at it and go like, I love watching this. I don't want to be in. Yeah. Yeah. And then could you guys, did you feel like you could score anything? No. That's the other problem. I was just fanning out and I was like, no, don't know.

You know, but halfway through, because, you know, as a media, we're trying to score the fight. And I was like, I don't know if it makes sense, but I felt a little dirty for even giving rounds to them. Because like, they both won that rounds. They both won that round. Like, I kind of like an asshole if we're even saying that someone. lost that fight. I mean, that doesn't happen that often, but it's like, no, they both won. Give them both belts. Fuck it. It's like, two champs. I don't care. Makes perfect sense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of how I feel too. I want to, like, maybe that's why I'm,

I feel like I'm aging out of this, doing this sport, because now when I watch everything, because I've, like, had a time to, like, meet everybody, I want everybody to win. Right. So what I see both of them going out and I'm like, this is so amazing. They both should win. They both deserve to win. That is some of the hardest things I feel like in general. Or you like know somebody's backstory. Are you like, oh, you see them with their kids and they're such a good parent. And then you're just like, oh, this is just not, this is an unrelenting thing.

You know what I mean? But yeah. No, I just was sitting there like, I have no idea. I think I was so captivated that I couldn't even like try to score it. Mm-hmm. I was just like, you know, I was kind of in. Yeah. We all started at the beginning and then it just turned in.

the like, you know, pandemonia. Like, the fight only, like, no one cared. Like, no one could comprehend it, like, an actual score. You know what I mean? Yeah, because every second you were just going, oh, oh, yeah. You couldn't stop and make something, like, scientific or, like, mathematical of it. It was just a fight that we were watching at that point, you know? Because the first one, oh, who won that round?

Who won that round? No one even tried to score after the second. Yeah. Like, no one was saying anything besides how amazing it is. In the fifth round, I was telling people around me, it's like, please someone knock each other out because I don't want to have to score this. Like, please, I was like, please someone get knocked out. I just need someone to get. Yeah.

I don't, I don't have to. Because we were so worried that no matter what people are going to be unhappy. Yeah, exactly. But I think the crowd reacted pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. I do think Zhang won. I mean, I think if you have to pick, but it was, I think the right person won.

But it's still tough. At home, actually, most people who watched it on TV. because we know we look at the scores online and most people scored it for you not most but a slight majority scored it for yohanna but in person definitely more people scored it for jane that's so interesting it's very different in person yeah yeah and you feel more yeah and they're loud yes you know what i mean you hear like them solidly landing and you're just like okay there's some things just depending on the angle on tv too that like when someone is so technical and so fast like you honestly are not

going to see it, you know, unless you really know what's happening. And a lot of Ioanna strikes are straight and technical. Yeah. You know, so that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I feel that way in terms of like for the live audience, for sure, they registered more, visually registered more of songs power shots. Yeah. She was able to push Joanna back every time she countered. So it's just like I think a TV power sells more than speed and precision. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I mean, that was, I think The tell of the fight is like, oh, like, Jean-Guilis, punches just looked like they were doing a little more

where Yonah was, like, landing. Yon Havana was, like, and every once in a while, you just saw Yohanna's head go, you know, like, you know, like, you saw like the back of, like her, like, dang, how it's the best. You thought she was just a wildest fight ever. I know, I can't, I feel so lucky, like, that we got to, you know, see, be there.

And she's like, because this is going to, like, we're not going to forget that, you know. It's one of those titles. Yeah, I felt. Yeah, I had that. What are the fights you remember, almost as a fan or a fighter watching, like, you kind of get that same feeling from that like,

oh, this is like, I'm not going to forget this moment watching this. I think, like, Gaslam and Israel had a feeling like that. Diaz Daily. Yeah, Diaz Daily. One round fight. Someone on Twitter said, imagine if Diaz Daily was five rounds, That's what Wiley and Yawanna did.

Yeah, that was one crazy round. That was in with San Diego. That was the first Strike Force slash Zupa. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because she worked for Strike Force at the time, so that was part. That was part of the game. It was my first time working with all the Zifa people.

Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a long time. It's very hard to remember these because there's so many good fights. We're like, I'm going to always remember that one. And you know R Sport? Yeah. Your memory's so short because it's like that happened.

this happened this and like you forget and it's really so short so even when i do five fights i'm like that's gonna be one of my favorite fights forever and then like someone asked me i turned into like a block of like well what was the fight this weekend and you know but that one stood out um some other just insane like geichi ones i even remember like watching gaichi and michael johnson on his debut and just like there was anticipation like oh this is his debut let's see yeah it was just crazy and like he's getting dropped and coming back and I'm just like take him down no stop!

Like no one at each other. Someone wrestle. Yeah. I just didn't even know either guy. Yeah. And I was just like somebody wrestle. Somebody like take the other guy down. And I feel like a few of Gachy's fights have been like that. Oh yeah. I'm always begging in my mind for him to wrestle. Like anxiety but like just love like oh it was so. I've had I think a few of his. I mean even like a Max Holloways had a ton where I've just

And like, wow, like, it doesn't get better than, like. At the end of Ricardo Lomas, when he just, like, pointed out. Oh, yeah, they were like, let's go. Sports amazing, like, obviously. But, like, it is one of those things that you have such a short memory, you know, with everything happening. And, like, I don't know, it moves so fast. But this is one, I think people are always.

Yeah. Because this, I think. Oh, shit is. Did you get a great fight and super high stakes, you know, on a pay-per-view, too? It's just like, yeah. And like, and also I feel like did something yes for women and for the weight class. It was like a number of women's day or something like the same day. Yep.

Like what a freaking perfect thing. No, no. Okay, I'm very confident we could talk about the awesomeness of the co-main event for years. Yeah. But before we talk about the fight that happened right after that, what is this? What do we have right here? I brought you some green tea cookies. Green tea cookies?

Yes. You know the last. This packaging is amazing. And this is Japanese, born in Kobe. Yeah, there's a Japanese like dessert shop near me. It's impossible to open. I love Japanese desserts and anything. We actually just had to cancel the two-week trip to Japan, so you guys are giving us what we need.

The virus. Yeah. We're bringing the virus to you. Yeah. Relax. I think it goes like sideways. like sideways oh does it yeah yeah so like I've been like I had all my plans in Japan uh-huh like every meal plan wait wait you guys had a wait you cancel the trip wait

yeah oh well yeah we actually had to yeah I mean yeah just it's a smart thing a bad time like we can maybe get through and you know at the very just walk your hands every minute quarantine and be worried and everything you know like I didn't think we're gonna die or anything but it's like I don't you might get I thought we were gonna die. I don't know. You might get stuck there or... So, and like that's the worst thing.

So I'm just like, anyway, I'm trying to relive all this stuff. Like, I'm, you know, thankful for Vegas. We have an amazing like Chinatown. I'm just like, we want to go here. And China Town of the base includes like all... Oh yeah, it's every thought. So much. This is amazing.

And you know the way it was hard. He loves green tea. I love cookies. Oh, and more packaging. And the packaging. And the packaging is like... This is gorge. This looks.

expensive and like important just like you like you like you masterpieces oh oh oh yeah oh yeah yeah you haven't seen these it these are oh yeah yeah you open it's like a full cracker no it's like uh it's like a wafer kind of it's a wafer yeah oh dude it's over oh my god job obesity is gonna come back yeah let me see you guys want a paper towel or is they're just Oh, I'm gonna get crumbs all over your counter. It's fine, it's fine. Benny will inevitably clean them up. You paper top?

Look it, food comes out and my dog comes alive. So this is a green tea? Cracker? Yeah, green tea. Oh yeah, green tea. Oh, yeah, green tea in it. Oh my god, this is amazing. You guys want one?

Oh yeah, one more. That's yours, the rest of my hair. Sorry, that was awkward, but yeah. This is amazing. These are like little pancakes. Dude, I can't wait. You guys have any? So hungry.

Yeah, I actually. I actually, I bought the chocolate ones for. Oh my God. There's your green tea cream in them. Yeah. Oh my God, they're so good. Sorry, Jose. Yeah, you're done.

I forgot. I love those. I love Jose. And none for Gretchen Weeners, bye. I love Jose. Yeah, we love Jose. And he's wearing a Frank Ocean shirt. So he's our best friend now.

I just didn't know if we were supposed to, um, break the fourth wall. I didn't know if we were supposed to break the fourth wall. No, we broke it a bit already. This is incredible. Mmm. That's beautiful. This is amazing.

Thank you guys. You guys are the best. You've forever been my... How much we've done each other? Almost ten years, I think. And you guys have been very essential in my... Our food journey. Almost like, you know what I mean?

Because a lot of people are like, oh, you know this food, you that food, and ask me stuff. And I'm like, if I had to go to somebody who had influenced me in that, I hope I'll give you guys. Aw. Thank you. I love when we're in different cities and I'm like, you just pick.

You tell me where I'm going to eat and what I'm going to have. I do take pride in that, going to different cities and finding good local spots see you. You are so good at it. That is the joy of traveling to another city, though. Like, that is the point of it. You know what I mean, right? It's like, what do they eat here?

Where do they eat coffee? What is, like, popular here. So let's talk about the main event. Okay. All right. I hate you. Like, Benny's embarrassed. He was like, oh, baby.

Sorry, I'm sorry. I hate my parents, guys. I didn't pick them. He, like, put my head down. Everyone's got their opinion on it, I'm sure. I didn't, it wasn't what we expected, but like, a smart fight is a smart fight. Smart fight.

Yeah, I mean, like, what, what? And highlight one amaze. Yeah, tell me what you think about it, yeah. Um, basically, like, like, yeah, a smart fight's a smart fight. Sometimes I wish I was smart when I fought. I was like, hey, that's very admirable, you know? Like, in Sawbender and like guys like that that, like, fight, like, those are always the guys I look up to that, like, are opposite of me and that like, you know, wish you could kind of, like, attain that. Like, they don't fight like me, so I like watching them fight because I can learn something or, you know, good outside myself when I'm watching.

it or something. But yeah, smart fight to smart fight. And high level MMA is high level MMA. You know what I mean? Like, it's not always what it's supposed to be. Just like high level freaking theater or music. It's not for everybody. Like, you're not going to sit there and, you know, watch a black and white silent

movie even though. You know what I mean? It's just, it was a high level fight, you know. To me, like, Yole Romero's, like, Israel, did what he had to do. I'm not a believer in, you have to take it from the champion. I'm not a believer in that because the challenger is not at a handicapped. If he beats the champion, he beats the champion. You know, if you beat a guy by one second, you're like, well, you have to beat him by 1.5 in the race because he won last time. You win the fight. You win the fight.

But to go out, to go out as a challenger, challenging for a belt, and do as little he did, which Stahlbender did more at the end of the day. Like, what was open? Like, what was open? This. I tried to fight him a little bit. He caught me. You know what?

People have done that with Yole Romero and came out not the same person. Stylebender, as the champion, did what he had to do. And Yol, like I'm saying, like, without saying the challenger has to take it. Is the champion, he did what he had to do. And Yol is a challenger, didn't challenge. Like, he went in there and it's like, you have to try. Like, you are the challenger. find the best guy in the world, like trying. That's kind of where I'm at at it. I mean,

it was high level, very smart by Israel, get out undamaged. And I love what he said. He's like, I'm not going to lose millions to please a bunch of guys that want me, you know, to get in a brawl. Like, I'm going to do, I'll be there for the next one. It was a hard follow up no matter what. It was a hard follow up. It's going to be such a hard follow up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had to take a cookie break. think of Holloway versus Poir. That should have been considered... If Israel versus Gasson

wasn't the fight before, that might have been fight of the year or one of the best fights a year, but you almost forgot how amazing that fight was because Izzy versus Yasin was such an amazing fight. Yeah. So, like, this was just a no-win situation for as far as entertainment.

I just think also, unfortunately, the way it began, set a tone for the rest of it, that you almost couldn't recover from. Yeah. Those first like two minutes or whatever it was. Like, yeah. I just,

I think. It was about two and a half minutes, yeah. Yeah, it was just like, you saw that happen and you kind of, it lost a lot of people. Yeah. Immediately.

Yeah. You know, and I think even if it would have just like, maybe a strike not been thrown, but posture would have been different or movement would have been different. Yeah. I just think like maybe things could have,

it's still wouldn't have, pleased a lot of people, but like that, I think. Yeah, I got also like you did it. Like we were talking, it was the challenger. Like, your job is to win the belt possibly on your last title defense. And it's like, you set a tone of just not moving for the first two minutes. Yeah. And it was kind of just like.

And Izzy kind of had to break the deadlock. He's all right, I'll do something. And then he gets hit the one shot. The one shot, he gets hit the really only hard try to get hit for the hard fight. He's like, okay, I'm not going to do that again. Right. So. It's not the way to win a title.

Yeah. And so Izzy's like, yeah, Izzy's like, I'm trying to make entertaining. Oh, I almost died. Screw you guys. I'm just going to win this now. He was, I mean, because I interviewed him right after, like, he came from his medical 10 and came to me. And, like, the vibe wasn't happy.

And, like, that was the first thing I asked him. I'm like, this isn't your vibe. He's like, I don't like being boring or disappointing people. But, like, you know, and, and that's the thing that's hard. And you guys know because you're friends with fighters and you've been around the sport for a long time. but like you don't come home and like know the challenges or like have to live every day then. Like that is sometimes can be hard and he doesn't want to disappoint people at the end of the day.

Like he has to fly all the way home to New Zealand. You know what I mean? And take care of him and make sure he is a long fighting future. So it's just you could tell he's disappointed but he was like I had to be smarter for my own future. Yeah, he did walk into the press conference pretty bombed. You could tell he was not celebrating. and he just kind of had like a, you know, I'm just going to answer my questions.

I'm going to stay defiant. Yeah. Because it's my personality, but I'm not, you know, but I'm not thrilled about this. Yeah. I mean, it's not a fight, I think, you know, you're going to be proud of when you win it, but you're going to be like, I did the right thing.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I fought the right way. I stuck to a game plan. Sometimes that's the hardest thing is just staying disciplined, you know, in a fight. And when I see some people attack a leg for 20 minutes and stick to something. I'm just like, you don't understand, like, how hard that was,

even to continue to take down and cover a guy and dominate him in that way for 20 minutes. Like, something like that of, like, sticking to it and not being phased by anything else, but the sole focus of winning the fight, like, that's what makes him, you know, that's what makes him the champion. And, you know, you'll go in a challenge, you know,

like, that wasn't the way to take it from him. Yeah, I thought Rogan and the, commentary is actually pretty dead on in the sense that this is actually Romero's game plan. You just are going to be bored and just go, all right, I got to do something and that's when I get you. That's essentially his game plan. It is always, too. I was looking at his Twitter too, because I was like, are they, I kept checking his corner. I was like, are they going to be like yelling for, like, activity or something and they were just

all chilling? I was like, oh, okay. Just looking at the pose. Yeah. This is as expected. Yeah. That's the plan. Yeah.

I also think that it's weird, but not every, and I know this is going to be really disappointing because it is pay-per-view, but not every main event is going to be amazing. Not every fight is going to be amazing. Not every title fight, especially. And it was weird because, like, Romero came into the press conference and said that, you know, he didn't think that Izzy should be compared to Anderson Silva. He was embarrassing, blah, blah. I was like, Anderson Silva had his fight against Damien Maia, against Talas Lachis. They're coaching, Cote. Cote.

Cote. Which was his, like, eighth fight or something, and that was stylebender's eight fight or something. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, everyone has a bad night. Everyone has a night that's not as exciting as everyone wants it to be. And that's part of it. It's just people choose to forget.

Even say, like, Jones, OSP, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's a point when people just, there's, you can't love every fight. Not everyone's going to love every moment. And we're just choosing to forget that these things happen to the past. For sure. You cannot please the MMA community no matter what at the end of the day. And I do sympathize because, no, we're there.

We're literally paid to watch these fights. Yeah. I get people at home. I get the fans who are paying $70, $100, $300 for those take us, whatever. I get that. I get that. You know, but you pay $400 to go see a Lakers game and they just kind of suck that night. Yeah.

You don't go, ah. Stars don't play and yeah yeah mm-hmm that's what sprats is right sprats I mean there were 11 fights on that card a lot of great fights yeah you know lots of finishes how selfish actually are we that we're bitching about one fight when literally 10 minutes before that we saw maybe one the greatest fights that ever happened and then before that we had a wild knock yeah oh Vera Max Griffin that was a great fight yeah yeah um what was the other fight Magny had a great performance.

Yeah, Magny had a great performance. I missed that. I missed the lot off. Sugar Show. Sugar Show. Yeah, Sugar Show. On the prelims, three undefeated fighters remained undefeated. I mean, I think that was also crazy, too.

It's like, to have a zero in this sport is wild. Yes, so difficult. And they really, like, Mark Madsen got put through the ringer for his. Oh, that was a good fight, too. I like that fight. Mark O. I know. That always goes me a.

Is the O.4 Olympian or it's something? Yeah. Mark Olippian Madsen, yeah. Like over her or something, overhard or something. Overhard? Overhard? I always throws me off because I always think it's O Madsen. It's not, the way he says it?

Yeah. Marco Madsen. Yeah, so Jerogan kept calling him O'Madson. Yeah, he got him, like he was Irish. Oh, or like Marco. Marco Madsen. You know what I like. I like Marco.

Yeah. Marco's good. Yeah. Sounds wild. So, that was a great event, great event. Yeah. Great event. A lot of memories.

How are you doing, Joseph? I'm good. You good? Yeah. I want to talk about you now. I want to talk about me? Yeah. Okay.

Do you have a rematch come in or we don't know? Possibly. That's the plan. And I love the idea because, well, I mean, as a competitor, you can, you can win. You win and you lose. You know, that's it. You know, sometimes I didn't perform when I won. Sometimes I didn't perform when I lost.

but like there's something to learn. You know, every loss I've been able to take something away from like, oh, this happened for that reason. This wasn't a loss where a guy was better than me. I was winning a fight. I thought it was going my way. Felt amazing. Feeling in my element. And the head butt ended it for me.

You know, that was the beginning of the end. How? I mean, I went, you know, the best way the guy could possibly win, which she was prepared in the first round. You know, sprawled great, but it's like, all right, that left me standing up with you and we're like, that's your only chance. And like, I beat you there on all three judges scorecards. I was fighting at a pace that I know, like, I can control and no one can fight with me there. And I'm just like, that's why I kept swinging. A lot of people are like this, but, you know, we get up from the first scramble.

I see a guy tired. And I'm like, oh, I don't let up. If you're in front of me, like, I am attacking you. I'm not going to be like, oh, he's tired. I should circle. So like I said, I kept going at a pace that I didn't think he could handle. And literally, I didn't feel a punch at all. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm T-KOed by guy I was beating that, you know, essentially happened from an accident, you know, a headbutt that could have easily been a referee instead of right here, right here, seize the clash, seize the cut.

Yeah. Don't throw the next punch. It is interesting. Yeah. And it's like, that's a, I'll come to the point now. of just it's frustration of like yeah of like from a competitive standpoint look like life goes on and I've realized that like I'm happy I make everyone like life goes on and always going to be more appreciative of life and have a perspective of like the fight's not the most important thing

but is a competitor who has been trying to be you know is one of the best in the world for years it's like I lost two guys it wasn't better than me I want to fight him like right now now. Yeah. He literally has a win over me when he was losing a fight. Yeah. You know, and this accidental thing happens that ruins everything. And it's just like, yeah. I mean, that's where I'm at is like the frustration part of like, why the hell would that happen? And like it was, everything was so perfect and going in a well way. And I love that it was a tough fight. I love that it was a hard fight. You know, I didn't expect it to be easy. And everything felt right. And then it's just like, it ended because of that.

Why? I'm going to steal these crumbs before. Like I said, it's just the frustration part. So everyone's talking about like the rematch happened. And I'm just like, yes. Like, I wanted that right after. Like, I was fighting. But like, I just, like, I feel like people think Joe was, like, campaigning for it.

Like, he didn't even know that the rematch was being, like, brought up. He was getting, like, stitches. And it was already being brought up. So it wasn't, like, yeah. because I think some people... I didn't go an astro. I was disappointed because, like, look, there's a ton of weird asteros because whatever those things are.

Asterox? Astrox. Astrox. In that fight, like, with just a miss weight in the head, but it's like, it wasn't a complete thing. The title's still vacant. I'm obviously the best guy, you know, in the division. You know, he proved that at least he belonged to be able to do another rematch.

So it's just like, but I don't make excuse. I never talked about the weight, you know? Yeah. And a lot of the things, like, even when I was done, I was like, when you know, I could have finished him before that. Yeah. I didn't have to even get to that point of the headbutt. And like, you know, I'm not a guy who like makes excuses no matter what.

So I was just like, at the end of the day, he did what he had to do if I saw someone's split open from the headbut. And I saw, which I'm sure he saw my eyes freaking, you know when someone's rocked. Yeah. You know. The second it happens, like your face changes. Yeah. And I was just like, yeah, I'm like, what I'm wiping my face with a guy right in front of me trying to attack me.

I didn't know what the hell has happened. Yeah. He saw that just like anybody sees blood, but also like, oh, I rocked him. Look at his eyes, whatever. So, you know, at the end of the day, I think like, ah, well, I wish I would have been at least conscious to like circle or shoot and wait for this or wait for that. Or I should have finished him in the first. I should have just done this, done that. You know, so I wasn't even thinking about it.

And the fact that, you know, they want to do it is like, it's great. Like I've worked for these opportunities, like my whole life, my whole career. I've worked for these opportunities when I wasn't getting them. People are like, oh, he's the best, but like he deserves a time. I'm shot in him out. You know what I mean? And now that I'm getting it, it's like you live once. You have a shorter time to do this.

And, you know, my time, you know, is getting shorter and shorter. It's like, you think I'm not going to take every opportunity to give it to me that I've worked for like my whole freaking career. So, yeah, when they, it was a great thing. hear and like I'm ready for it. I just want to be healthy, got the right timing to be able to to perform and you know, that's that's about it. How much of that headbutt suck? I mean like I mean this is a question. I mean I know you're in the middle of a freaking fight but like when the headbutt because she's no she covers a lot of boxing when guys headbutt they'll immediately go to the rep. Hey no even the rep doesn't see it immediately. Yeah like like like you know if you get

poking the eye reps don't see eye pokes you have to tell the ref. Yeah. I'm just I'm just kind of curious more because we hit the headbut. Did you know was the headbut? Did you know? Like, I mean, because you, because it happened, you couldn't immediately go on the rep, hey, that was the headbut. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm so fast. Yeah, that's why it's doing.

Yeah. I didn't really know. All I knew was like, like, I'm dazed right now. Like, what's happening? And then, like, I see blood and, like, I wipe. But, like, I didn't necessarily, like, go, dang it, head butt. Yeah. It's kind of a weird thing.

I knew I was dazed and like obviously there's split seconds in your mind is like why am I hurt like did he punch me or something like that and you know I never went unconscious so it was kind of a weird thing like that was the last thing that happened to me and then I'm kind of like you know getting up and I'm bleeding and I was just like what was that because you know it was just a weird thing I didn't really feel it but even like I guess the punch that dropped me like I didn't feel that it dropped me I was already rocking equilibrium-wise. He obviously did the right thing.

But the headbutt was the finishing blow. Like that was the... I know there's so many like what-ifs, but like if that punch doesn't happen, that punch doesn't happen. Actually, the ref will actually see the cut and like that's like... It would actually have been a no contest,

actually, if the punch doesn't happen. In Virginia. In Virginia. Oh, maybe not. Funny enough, in Virginia, accidental headbutt, anything, whatever, stops to fight. If it's even gone past one round,

to go to the scorecards. Oh. I won on every scorecard. And it's like, look, I wouldn't want to win a title like that anyway. But it was just funny. It was just like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And then it's just kind of like, then it's kind of like, oh, you think so many what ifs, bro. Like that's all the deal. I'm like, what if I wouldn't have got rocked but like I would have just bled? Like the cut still happened, but I wasn't rocked. Yeah. What if I was like kind of rocked but not bleeding so I didn't like go like, whatever. What is this? You know what I mean? And then it's just like what everything could have been

different, you know? Or like, you could have gone through so many scenes. What if you made weight? Yeah. And people are like, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Would he have been more trained? And people are like, you lost focus for a split second or something. I'm like, no, I lost focus, period. Yeah. Like it wasn't like, oh my God. Yeah. Like I was like, like, oh my God. He's fighting me. Like, hold on. Like I was like, like, literally that that was what I imagined. Yeah. Like, the only time I've ever, other than finish, it was, it was like instant I was out. That was as close as I could feel to what people feel when it gets a finishing blow. Like he uppercut him.

All he has to do is go finish him. Or like, my last fight. I had kicked him. All I got to kind of do is go finish him. That was the headbutt and then I'm done. Like that was the sequence in my split second of fighting that I felt is like I'm rocked. Now I'm getting up. What the fuck happened?

You know, they told me later. There was a headbutt and everything. I was like, oh, then that's what fucking rocked me because... Like, when we were watching the fight, I actually didn't see the headbut. It was like, it was the replay. Oh. Yeah. That's all, that's how, maybe we kind of, we thought maybe.

Yeah. But you just couldn't, you know, it's a fight. Well, the camera angle is actually behind. Yeah. So you couldn't. Behind him, right? Yeah. So you just saw the back of a head.

You couldn't actually see anyway. But when they changed to the side angle, then you're like, oh. Oh my goodness. But it was very obvious, like, from the, from the moment. on. Like from that moment, it was like, oh, something happens. It was a squirder. Yeah. It was a squirder. Wow. Oh, that was a bleeder. He was.

He was a president. Maybe if I would have just bled and then it's just like, that's just the annoying part is like, I don't know, like it's a headbutt. Like that put me down. That cut was so bad. Joe was laying there getting stitched and I'm just like trying to be like, you know, because you don't want to be the emotional one. That's like their time. and he's getting stished. I'm like, it's fine. Like, it's gonna be fine. Meanwhile, I'm like basically looking at his skull.

They accidentally dropped alcohol in both of his eyes. Oh, no. So he's like bleeding, having, like, screaming because there's now alcohol in guys. Have you literally seen your husband's skull? Wow, that's love. We're intimate. I have not actually seen her school. So I assume is there.

That's intimate. Yeah. I'm like trying to like awkwardly sit on the high table while he's being mad. And I'm like, it's fine. It's fine. We're going to be good. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. I didn't know what to do.

I'm going to throw it up. It's fine. Oh, we're good. Don't bomb on your husband. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of reminds me of like last night when we were watching the commain, we were, when you and us had started swelling.

Like all the photographers are like, oh my God, what if that gets cut open? Yeah, I know. All the God is the same thing. Everyone was like, this is going to be gross. This is going to be gross. Yeah. Yeah, like, if it, I don't, I don't even know how that might happen. Yeah.

I want, like, you know, has the fight ever been stopped because a ref was just like, no. Yeah. This is disgusting. I'm done to this. Yeah. Yeah, but no, because a ref was grossed out. It's like, ugh. Yeah.

Enough with this. She was at the, uh, sorry. a few years ago, Sakaraba fought and his ear got... Just, like, ripped off? And, like, so... It was just, like, hanging? It was like, like, a water...

I was like, there's a water bubble gum? No, that's this ear. That's his ear. Yeah. Sorry, one last thing. On this rematch, do you take it if he doesn't make weight? I know it's such a weird thing he's like...

I know it's such a weird thing he's like, I'll fight him in your weight, but like, I mean, it's... I feel like a flyweight. It's such a big deal. It's a very big deal. Joe was sleeping when he missed weight and I had to like awkwardly wake him. I was like here I put him to sleep.

Okay, just get 30%. And he was fine. He went back to sleep. I was like, how much? And I was like, well, we should get 30%. And like, I didn't ever think about not. Yeah. There's basically the same reaction if she would have said, hey, your opponent just hit the scaling weight.

I would have been like nice. Cool. Can I start? 30%? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, like you believe in yourself and all that. And then to me, I just felt like a conviction of like, he's like, well, he's never fucking was going to win the value.

Anyway, now he can't, like, oh, he's not prepared. Like, obviously, the only one who came to do this anyway, you know, and obviously, like, the sport is, I just hate it because it's like... Would you do it? Oh, to answer the question. I forgot the question, yeah. Rematch, he comes in out 127 and a half, another rematch. You get, sleep on it. I have to.

Yeah, that's the thing. I feel like, I feel like you have to. I'm not going to fight a guy that's there, you know, where I can. win a title. Do you think then... That is... Yeah, I just can't. Fighters never gonna, almost never gonna turn that down,

especially if there's a title involved. I think the only time we've ever really seen that not happen was in non-tile fights, right? Yeah, or like when commissions say like, hey, that's four pounds, you can't do it. Yeah, or if a commission... There's three pounds, you can't do it. The last person I actually remember not doing it was Leslie Smith or Aspen Ladd. And that kind of turned out that was a whole other drama too. Yeah, that's why people don't do it.

you put so much work. I hope. I think you're self-belief too. Yeah, and like, oh, whatever. Self-belete's huge. Yeah, you're just like, I don't care. Like, I spar with freaking 160-pound guys every single day, you know, that are better

than this because, like, for me, like, if I'm sparring with a flyweight, like, I have to have one of the best flyweight in the world, basically, to challenge me in the gym. So, therefore, I'm sparring with 160-pound guys anyway to get looks to get, you know, everything. And it's not in time. You know, so, yeah, you just believe. believing it against anything you put up you know so much work and at the end of the day at every level everyone is still relying on you know like that's when we get paid after weeks of work you know for our coaches you know for their family for our family like everyone that's done that and it's just like

you know it's that all goes into play too but a lot of it it's just like the work is like I'm prepared for this for three weeks and like I can beat a fucking dude up to paint weighs this much more than me. And you know, the thing about the weight cut is we're even talking about earlier is like people don't understand it's not like three pounds or like, hey, he like stopped working out only for an hour. And it is a percentage, but like it's it's the body of like this making weight is your discipline like that last three and four weeks.

It's fully disciplined. Like the same people miss weight no matter what. Morning weighing night weighing. This weight class, that weight class. you see it all the time. It's just their discipline. Like they can miss it this way, miss it this way. How is that happening?

He went up to weight. No, because he's not disciplined. So it's weeks leading up and staying so big that by the time you finally get down to cut weight, like you can't make the weight. It's not like, I can make the weight, but like, you know, I'm just not going to work out for three hours, which it's not wanting to put that abuse on your body for the last three weeks. And those last few pounds are the hardest worn. The last few pounds are the hardest ones, but you can't do that because you've been so big.

And it's like, it's a fine line of cutting weight and training. Right. So a lot of the times it's like, why I know I'm getting smaller, but like I have to compete. So you really have to gauge your training different, you know, to make weight and train and be able to compete. But when you're not worried about that and you're just staying big and you have 40 hours to rehydrate, you're going to get that big right away. Yeah. So you're not finding. He was three pounds bigger than you.

you at that moment when you got small and he got small. But when you both get big, it's not three pounds because he's been coming down from so far. So, you know, I don't know the night of, and that's not an excuse still. I'm just kind of explaining like what messy weight means. It means like months of just being a bigger person and then obviously being able to be a bigger person at night. Yeah. But like it's not an excuse. Like everything requires a sacrifice.

So when I see a big guy in the gym or whatever and I'm a smaller guy, I know how to fight them. I know where I'm going to shine. I know kind of how I have to fight. And that's the same thing I thought in the fight. It's like, he's going to be really good for a first round. He's probably going to be strong. He was extremely strong. But I'm like, he's eventually going to melt.

He's not going to keep up with me because I did the work to do this. So like I said, I always believed in myself. And I thought, you know, would I was sacrificing or would he, and would he, and would he, and what he was sacrificing was different. So, yeah. I personally hope it, I think you deserve a rematch. I think fans want to rematch. I think the division deserves that rematch.

The division warranted. And like that fight was a banger in the first round. Yeah. He only got more fun. The first round was awesome. Dude, that scramble. Yeah. Oh, man, your arm went like, g-oh.

I know. I asked him, I was like, is your arm okay? And he was like, yeah, but I didn't hurt it. He, like, forgot. I was like, I don't know you had like a scramble that was. kind of wild he's like oh you know did you see the replay in that scramble yeah I was like well I can see why people thought that but it's like I don't remember my arm bending like I remember getting out of it and I guess it looks like that I think it looks worse though but it like a hitchhiker

thing to get out so it like look kind of weird but like my arm is like wasn't it he was like what but it was just like that was like how you escape and it actually looks really weird and I now I remember like looking at people like oh my god their arm definitely broke but it like didn't you know what I mean I think the rebels are like well like what I like what moment. You know what? Like that scrambles crazy because like that changed so much of the fight for me too. Because it's like if we didn't get into that first scramble, it obviously would have been

a little more tactical. Yeah. A little more like feeling out. Like I'm obviously like the trickier fighter, you know, and like I landed like some clean shots before that, you know, just being faster and trickier from a distance. But when we got it from the scramble. Uh-huh. he was tired and that made me fight to finish you know what I mean so that ended up at being a different

like fight too for me because like if you've ever seen me fight like if someone's in front of me and not like circling being tactical like I'm just going to fucking attack you no matter what you know what I mean and that's kind of how it was you know at first we're like filling out we get into the scramble I'm like he's tired like I can finish him right now so I'd never stop trying to do so because I see a guy tired I said earlier like I don't see a guy tired and then go like I should circle let him recover mm-hmm like I'm like oh I'm gonna fucking hit him and then I continued to hit him and I was like you know seemed to be going as planned so anyway my other my other

grief was I felt you that you and that fight was fight of the night which you shouldn't have got the whole 100k. Dude. And, and, and, I mean, as where's the sounds, he shouldn't have got knockout on night, which means you shouldn't have got that 50K too. I mean, it's been weird. I mean, that's immediately about Twitter,

like, oh, like you know he deserved all that money. You went through every scenario in like, every scenario of just like this, that, like everything. And I was already like, like, the fight was like awesome. I knew it was going to be a good opponent, you know, and like I knew it made for an exciting fight. Because like from the beginning, I was like, you know what's cool? It's like, he's actually going to fight me. He's not going to be like, stay away from him and maybe like catch him doing this and like take him down.

And then to me, I was like, people kind of do that to him too, though. Yeah. Because he's powerful and has a good distance. But I'm like, no one attacks him. It's always like circle and maybe try to take down or like or he just walks him down. But I'm like, he doesn't have the best defense. and no one goes and attacks him. So I knew I was going to attack.

I knew he was going to be there too. And I was just like, this is going to be the craziest fight. It was leading up to be a really good fight. And then obviously I thought like, not only would have won a world title, which is the best, but it's like we would have got five of the night. Yeah. And it would just been this great crowning achievement because not only that, I got a bonus, but it was a fight of the night bonus and you can't get it.

We get an extra 100K. Yeah. And I'm just, you go through all those things and that stuff. I hate those things you can't control. I know. Yeah. That are just like should have been. It's just the worst feeling and it's,

but it's just how you live and find them like, God, and that's good and that. But it's like, you can't change your shit. Yeah. But those scenarios in my head. It was 100K fight bonus for me. Yeah.

100% would have been five nights, especially as a main event that was going that well and that action packed. That was Benny's college fund. Exactly. Now you've got to get a scholarship, dude. Yeah, so it's funny, it almost seems like kind of the story, like we were saying, like we knew that the co-main would be amazing, but not that, we didn't know how amazing.

Everyone thought the main event would be really great, but if, you know, you go kind of back and look at Ramirez's of the fights, they're kind of, a lot of them are really weird. Every single one. Every single one, actually. By the law, I mean each single one. Yeah. So what I'm noticing is like you have this thing in your mind. You imagine what you want the fight to be and you try to go through every scenario ahead.

But it still seems like it still changes from that. It's still not what you saw. Even Izzy was like, yeah, he's like, that's not what I saw. That's not what I was imagining at all. And it's not something we can change, especially in hindsight. We definitely can't change it because in the past. But I feel like that's why that's why. That's why you keep going, you know, you keep moving, you try, you're not defined by that,

you just keep going. And I don't know, it's inspiring to me. And I think that's why we love watching fighting so much or we gravitated towards it so much, because you get to see people overcome not just the adversity in a fight, but the adversity of, say, losing a fight or having something just bad luck happen, things like that. There's so many other factors. that it really kind of captures why fighting is so exciting to people is because it's not just that moment right there either. It's like all these things.

It's your, you prepare for this moment, you know? So I'm just so grateful for the time you've given us today. Thank you so much. You guys are the best. Are you a little hot, Joseph? Do you need, you? It's kind of hot in here, yeah. A little warm.

Yeah, I told you not to touch the thermostat. Welcome to my life. Thank you so much for inviting us into your home. Of course. Thanks to come over. Was the coffee okay? Coffee was great. And this is, oh, so, yeah.

So that has been Jose off camera. Say hey. Hey, hey. Hey. Hey. Estherlin, my wife. I'm E. Casey Leiden, Megan or Levy. and...

His wife. His wife. Joseph Benavides. I'm married. Josephinevian and... This is Benny. And Benny. Ben and Levy.

Aww. I'm sorry we bored you. That's perfect. He enjoyed the fights yesterday too, though. Awesome. Thank you. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.