MMA Fighting - Colby Covington Talks Kamaru Usman, Being Open To Khamzat Chimaev Fight, Jorge Masvidal, More

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

Colby Covington would rather fight Kamaru Usman in a non-title fight than become a world champion against anybody else in the UFC's welterweight division. Covington discussed his UFC 268 loss to Usman, coming from humble beginnings to headlining at Madison Square Garden, not getting credit for the takedown, if he feels he'll fight Usman again, if he thinks Jorge Masvidal will be next, potentially coaching on The Ultimate Fighter, why he would be open to a fight with Khamzat Chimaev, and much more with MMA Fighting's Mike Heck. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, let us welcome back. Colby Chaos Covington. It's been a little bit since we've had the opportunity to chop it up. Of course, we just saw him compete at UFC 268 early this month in the main event at Madison Square Garden. Unfortunately, he was on the wrong end of unanimous decision. It was a great fight. I know he's already been doing the media rounds, but I'm very happy he was able to squeeze in one more with us.

Colby, good to see you, man. How are you? Mike, I'm doing great. Good to see you, too. buddy. So it's been around three weeks since the fight happened, very close competitive fight. I know you felt like you won the fight, but when you think back, reflect on everything, like, how does it all feel a few weeks later? Is it a little bittersweet or like how does it all feel? Oh, yeah. It's, it's very bitter sweet. You know, I looking back at the fight and seeing the fight again

on videotape, I mean, it's clear I won three, four, and five. Those are my rounds. I almost finished him in the fourth round, the end of the round. There's 20 seconds left. He just does, and survived. So the first round was very close, too. I thought that, you know, potentially I could have that that round as well. So I feel like I won the fight pretty convincingly, four rounds to one. You know, you got a lucky flash knockdown in the second, but it didn't hurt me at all. I was right. I came right up and came out the next round and just destroyed him that round. So it's bittersweet. You know, I feel like Marty knows deep down in size that we have unfinished business. And this isn't over yet. You know, I mean, the only reason it's going to be over is if he retires and, and, you know,

goes and hides with his child somewhere in the world. So that's the only way it's over. Otherwise, this is my division. I'm not going anywhere. And if you want to be the top of the mountain in this division, you got to come through me. You mentioned in the builds of the fight in a couple times afterwards that you essentially, you didn't grow up in silk sheets, very, very humble beginnings, very humble middles, too, I guess, what we could say. But, you know, getting into the sport, not a lot of money. You sort of have experienced that for yourself in this crazy journey of MMA. And all these years later, you're headlining an event at Madison Square Garden.

There's over 20,000 people there, almost a $10 million gate. Fourth highest gate ever at Madison Square Garden, eighth highest gate in UFC history. That's a very big deal. Like, what would a young Colby Covington think about that, that all these years later, with everything you've gone through, here you are at MSG with those kinds of numbers. If someone told you that when you were 12, 13, 14 years old, that later on in life, you're headlining MSG and pulling near record numbers, would you have believed them?

I would have believed them. You know, I was a kid that, you know, I was, I never lost hope or never lost faith in my dreams. You know, I believed, you know, at a young age, that I was going to be the best of the world, and I was going to do some just incredible things in life, you know, some spectacle and do big numbers and really, you know, get a crowd around, you know, my journey

and everything that I've worked for in my whole entire life. So, you know, it's definitely a testament to just believing in myself and never giving up. You know, a lot of people, they give up before they can really take that turn in life and, you know, reach the next level. But, you know, my manifestation, my belief in myself is just, it's got me to this point. And I know the best is yet to come. You know, it's amazing to sell out Madison Square Garden. I mean, that's such an iconic arena. You know, all the stars, all the big names of every sport, every profession have performed.

perform there, you know, the, you know, and to be the top fourth highest skate in the history of that existence of that arena is just, it's incredible. And then the pay-per-view numbers, you know, they went through the roof, you know, it was around almost a million buys. And who knows, you know, some of the people that are streaming it and doing it illegal, pirating it illegally, you know, how many buys they took up as well. So, you know, it's, it's a, it didn't end how I expected it to and how the fans deserved it to. But, I think in the end, Mike, you know, even though I didn't, you know, they didn't, the three judges didn't award me the decision. They awarded him the decision three rounds to two, which is a joke.

I should have been winning four one, four one or three, two. I think the fans in the arena and the people around the world know who's the real champ now. Kind of going back to, you know, where you've come from and where you're, where you're at now, I think every fighter at some point, at least from all the interviews that I've done, there's a fork in the road, right? without a lot of money, you're thinking to yourself, like, is it ever going to get to the point that I'm manifesting? Like, did it ever get to the point for you along the way where you thought to yourself, like, you know what, maybe the Semi-thing isn't going to happen?

Maybe I've got to find a different avenue to be that guy. Maybe I need to get another job, working 95, just to eat and keep a roof over my head. Like, did it ever get to that point for you? To be honest, it never did. I never let it, you know? The reason I'm at where I'm at is because how strong my mind is. So anytime those negative thoughts started to creep inside my head space, you know, I refuse to let him occupy it.

You know, I cleared my mind. It found ways to breathe and be thankful just to be alive, man. It's not about the monetary gain in life, you know. Like, just because you have more money than someone doesn't mean you're better than them. It doesn't mean anything. So, you know, I mean, yeah, it's cool to have it. Money's a tool. It helps you be able to do things that you probably couldn't do on a regular basis.

But that's not what makes you happy. You know, money's not going to make you happy in life and make you have a better life. It's just going to give you a couple more opportunities. But going back to what you say, no, I never doubted. I never got down to myself. I'm not one to complain. You're not going to hear me complaining, making excuses, feeling bad for myself, you know. So I've never felt bad for myself.

I never expected sympathy from anybody. I heard it the hard way, Mike. You know, riding my bicycle to the gym in the rain, you know, taking my skateboard to the gym, you know, and not being able to afford a lot of things, but giving up, you know, a childhood. an adulthood, you know, a lifestyle to create a better legacy and a life for myself, you know, through hard work and dedication and sacrifice. So it's amazing to be where I'm at now. And I don't think I could have really ever expected to be there, but I always kept my mind strong like I was going to be there. When did you realize that you had taken those steps towards the other side? Like, I know the promos in the UFC started to get a little more fierce, a little more polarizing. The one in

Brazil obviously sticks out in the UFC, but even before that, was there a moment, a fight, a performance where you were just like, I got this shit. We're off to the races now. Yeah, definitely after the RDA fight when, you know, I was fighting him in his prime and he was at his absolute best. You know, he was on all the Brazilian vitamins. You know, he was juiced up hungry to defend his country in Brazil, you know, because I, you know, those people are filthy animals.

I called that place a dump because it was a dump. I didn't enjoy my experience. They treated me like shit. They yelled. mean things at me. He said I wanted, I was going to die. You buy more hay. So, you know, I know the animosity going into that fight with RDA was a lot. And being in the United Center, you know, the place where Michael Jordan to go to basketball, perform and then getting to perform their headline and win a world title and then go to the White House, call my shot to the White House,

only fighter in the history of this company to ever go to the White House, hang out with a sitting president in the Oval Office. That's when I knew I made it. That's what I knew, you know, how powerful my words are. And, you know, just like President Trump always told me, promises made, promises kept. And then headlining MSG with the UFC Walterway title in the line. And, you know, just going back to like some of those old interviews, if there's one thing that's consistent,

it's that you fighters, you are your own worst critics, Colby, and I think you've probably been that way at some point. Maybe you're still that way. They could deliver a 30-second knockout and find something wrong with it. Like, how would you, I know you felt like you won the fight, but how would you grade your performance overall? Would you say you were overall thrilled with it?

Were you happy with it? Were the things you could pick apart? No, there was a ton of things I could pick apart. You know, I am my own worst critic, but, you know, I did make a lot of mistakes in that fight. You know, I kind of deviated away from my game plan than my coaches, you know, Jonathan Lopez, Cesar Carnero, and Daniel Valverde, you know, instructed me to do it.

I kind of got away from that. I wanted to brawl a little bit more than, you know, I should have been keeping my guard a little bit higher hands up, being a little bit more technical. but, you know, I just, you know, there's so much animosity, and there's such a real hatred between me and that guy. I have no respect for him. He's a cheater.

He's cheated in both fights that I fought him. I fought him 10 rounds now. He's cheated in both fights. He cheats outside the fights, you know, doing steroids, getting his brother, who's a doctor, giving him, you know, enhancement and performance enhancing drugs, you know. And he's just ahead of the curve. You know, there was a time when Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds were ahead of the curve in baseball.

And it's just, you know, it's just what it is. know, people find ways to beat the test. But I've never cut corners. I never cheated in my life. I've done things the hard way. I earned it, you know, the hard way, the blue collar American way. And, yeah, just like, you know, I got unfinished business. It seemed like it took you a couple rounds to get going.

And you sort of alluded to, you know, you wanted to bra a little bit more. Maybe you didn't have your guard up. And I know you told James Lynch about the knockdown in the second round that it woke you up. And it showed because the aggression obviously picked up quite a bit down the stretch, a little more tactical. You went for a little bit more. How did you feel when the fight started? When the fight started, I felt great.

You know, I feel like, you know, I was listening to my coaches, you know, the coaches that I acquired at Colby Coventon, Incorporated, are the world class, the best coaches in their craft and what they do. Cesar Carnaro, the striking that he has helped me with and the kickboxing and what tie that he shows me is just, and it's so conducive for my game and the way I want to fight guys. So he just helped me understand timing, reflexes, and just having unbelievable combinations now that are very safe and effective. So, you know, I just feel like, you know, Daniel Bob Verdi, you know, what he brings with the wrestling and judo takedowns, you know, I mean, there's no doubt I took down Marty in that fight. He does not have, you know, he's not, he doesn't have a 100% takedown, you know, ratio anymore.

That's out the window. You know, I don't care what the UFC wants. They don't wrestle. They didn't grow up wrestle. I've been wrestling since I was seven years, Mike. there's not someone that that's been doing whatever they've been doing their whole life which is probably sitting in their mom's basement eating Cheetos and then they want to come out and act like they're the stat institution for a sport they know nothing about

so you know I clearly took him down I got the best coaches in the world and we're just getting better every every day my brother the best is yet to come I promise you Mike I'm just getting warmed up yeah like how was that not a takedown like I wasn't a wrestler but I know what a two-point takedown is and by definition that was a two point take down and shout out i don't know if you've seen this on youtube colby but there's a guy named weasel and he goes out he did due diligence on this whole situation i thought it was a takedown with my non-wrestling knowledge but he went out found similar takedowns in the past one was like with the old rule set in 2016 i think it was it was it was habib taking down i forget who it was but then they went back to like once the new rule set

came in and it was armand sarukyon taking down islam macha chep almost the same thing There was a struggle to get him down, had the same almost exact back position that you had, like in that position with almost a seatbelt. And then Makachev was up in like a minute, in like a second, maybe 1.5 seconds. And they credited Armagh with the takedown, but they didn't credit you for the takedown.

And it was almost exactly the same. Like, how did you react to like finding out that this wasn't a takedown? Just standard on the course, Mike. I've never gotten a fair shape my whole entire career. I mean, I got it. I got the statisticians, you know, I got the judges, I got the refs, I got everybody conspiring against me. No one wants me to win, Mike, just because I wore a red hat that says make America great again. What's so bad about those couple little words?

Just because those little words, you know, and I support a president, you know, and I love my country, America. What's so wrong with that? I love our troops. I love our first responders, our law enforcement. And I'm the bad guy. Everybody wants to pay me in the back. No one wants to give me credit for what I've got. earned what I do. So, you know, I think it's hilarious. You know, they're not wrestlers. They know

nothing about wrestling. You look at Daniel Cormi on the broadcast saying, you know, that's clearly two points. That's a takedown, man. That guy's wrestled since he was like, he was since he was in diapers. I mean, the guy wrestled all the way up until the Olympics, you know, he's done everything, you know, as a youth wrestler, middle school, high school, college, Olympic, you know, like, and you're going to tell that guy he's wrong. Hmm, that sounds pretty, uh, pretty weird. He's still coaching, wrestling. So he knows. Like, he's still watching his high school kids wrestle and he's in, he's in, he's in the sport almost on a daily basis. So I think if there's one guy you can believe in this entire situation, by the way, I have to bring this up because there was a, I think you should have got it on

principal because of the fence grab because there was a fence grab there. Exactly. No one wants to look at those things, like that he's holding the fence to stay up, you know, and clearly cheating. When is there a point going to be taken, you know? And even look at the fourth round or the fifth round before he pokes me in eye. Like 10 seconds before it, you know, the ref warned him. He was like, hey, keep your fingers close. And then he pokes me in the eye. Like, come on, man. He's trying to stop my momentum. I'm wearing on him. He's not, he's feeling that he can't touch me anymore. And I've got his timing down and I'm ready to counter him and knock his ass out. So I was coming for him. He wanted to stop my momentum again, you know. The guy's a cheater, man. He's a coward. And, you know,

hopefully I get to fight him for a trilogy, Mike. I really truly deserve that I deserve a trilogy. If you're going to give Max Holloway a trilogy when he lost two fights, you can't base it on losing two fights because both fights were close, Mike. The first fight I won multiple rounds was very close. It was obviously an early stoppage. I'm a warrior, man. I go out on my shield. You can't just knock me down and that's the fight.

No, you've got to put me unconscious which no man alive can do that, man. Because I fight for something bigger than me and the energy that I get by the military, by the first responders, our law enforcement, our firefighters. Those people fuel me, man. It's just my mind is so strong from those guys. They inspired me so much that there's just, you can't get me out of that octagon. So one little knockdown that doesn't define a fight.

I'm still fighting. If there's extra rounds after that five rounds, I'm still going. I'm still warming up. I'm still getting better, you know. He's not going to survive. He's done. That's all he has.

Going back and watching, do you watch those first two rounds and think, damn, like if I just came on a little more aggressively, and I get who it's been so powerful, like, is he's a powerful, guy. Like he can hit you and he can drop you. Like you got the, it was a flash knockdown in the second round. But you know what I mean? Like, do you have any regrets about those first two rounds at all? You know, Mike, I try not to have any regrets in my life and try to live with my decisions.

There's definitely, yeah, hindsight's 2020. Of course, you know, looking at it, it's like, man, why did you start slow and then, you know, come on hard later in the fight, you know, after the second round. So I could always look at it like that. But, you know, the beautiful thing about life is as long as you learn from your past mistakes, and use it for your future, then that's what's going to help you in the long run. And the past doesn't really matter. You know, the past is the past. I can't change the past.

But I can promise you that it's only fueled me and made me want to work so much harder to change everything in the future. You mentioned the knockdown. And I know you have an issue with people scoring the second round of 10-8 for Kamar Uzman. And that's the problem with judging and scoring in MMA. It's that you use a boxing scoring system for a totally, different sport because you're going to run into these types of debates because knockdowns mean a hell of a lot more in boxing than they seem to mean in mixed martial arts. I know

you're against this round being scored a 10-8, but can you at least understand why people thought that way because of the scoring criteria and how it's shaped off of a boxing model? I mean, this is MMA. This isn't boxing. There shouldn't be any type of parallel there. You're talking about two completely different sports. I mean, MMA is not a sport, man. That's That's cage fighting. That's a brawl, you know, that's, there's no way to define it. Boxing is so, you know, refined. There's actually rule set.

And, you know, they use 12-ounce gloves. You know, MMA, we use four-ounce gloves. So, yeah, if you get touched in the right spot in the temple, it's going to kind of, like, kind of turn your program off for, like, maybe a half-quarter second, you know, like a computer, oh, hardwired, oh, okay, I'm good, you know, I'm right back in it. So you can't, you can't score it like you score boxing because. because, you know, you have different gloves, different rules sets, and just, you know, it's a lot more dangerous than MMA.

So you can't, I mean, if you go look at the second round, too, like, the reason I rushed in, he was able to flash knock down me, I catch him with a jab and it, like, stumbled him. And he, like, stumbled back, and then he caught his bearings, and I rushed in with my hands down. He just kind of clipped me with the left hook. But definitely not a 10-8 round. I mean, it was very, that whole round was very close.

Like, I thought I was winning that round until, you know, he got the flash knockdown, but, but no, that's not a 10-8 round. That's not dominant. Two quick little lucky punches right on the temple. Just, just kind of just put me down for a quarter second. I'm right back up. You can't, that's not a 10-8 round. That's not dominant. So the fight ends, and it was obviously a tale of two fights. You, first two rounds, by the, by the midway through the third, I thought you had completely taken over the fight. It was, it was yours the rest of the way. I thought, you know, you definitely won four and five. Three was the closest round, in my opinion. and then one and two, you know, went the way that they went. But I know you talked about that moment with Kamaro at the end and big dance telling you guys to separate and stop the love fest or whatever.

And, you know, it was kind of a nice moment, Colby. And I know you joke about the promo code for my bookie. That's what you're trying to give him. But everybody thought it was a nice moment, man. Like everyone liked what you said after the fight. And then the psychology of this all was really fascinating to me because you show up at the press conference. Everyone's glowing about that moment and what you said after the fight. and it was all over.

Back to hammering Usman verbally. We're planning the seats for the Mazadol fight, which we'll get into in a moment. Was there any part of you that was, I don't know if you noticed it, that was taking it all in, saying, you know what, maybe this is the time.

Maybe this is the full on baby face turn. Was there any chance of that press conference going differently? Was there any inner dialogue before you went back in there? Mike, let's backtrack first. You thought I was joking when I told submission and radio that, you know, it was a promo code. That's what happened, Mike. Marty, Marty, come here. Come a little closer.

Marty, come here. Come a little closer. Marty, a little closer. Use promo code Colby at mybooky.orgia. And let's get those bets in, man. I'm trying to help him. He may be my enemy, Mike, but I'm trying to make the guy rich, man. And there's no problem in that.

So that wasn't a wholesome moment. That was just me trying to help him out for the future, you know, get him paid. So, you know, I have no respect for that guy, Mike. He's a cheater playing simple. Anybody that wants to not look at the facts, you know, then they're delusional. And they live their life in a fantasy. So, you know, I'm okay with people that want to live their lives like that. But I know the truth.

The people know the truth. And, I mean, it's pretty easy to look into. I mean, you're not just going to be a 35-year-old middle-aged man who's already went through puberty. and you know you're not just going to be having the chemical imbalance and pimples all over your back, all over your shoulder, over your face. I mean, it's pretty clear that, you know, he is the CEO of EPO and, you know, his name is Marty Jusman.

Dana White heaped praise on you after the fight, and he's one of the things that stuck out to a lot of people is he said that if Kamar Wiseman wasn't in the UFC or not in this division, you would be the champion right now. Do you take that as a compliment? No, I am the champion. I don't know what Dana's talking about. I'm America's champion.

That's a bigger championship than their title. I'm Donald Trump's favorite fighter. That's a way bigger title than any title in the UFC. So, you know, I don't take no pressure. I am the champion, Dana. What are you talking about? Go look at the 10 rounds that we fought. If you look at the body of work of 10 rounds, I'm easily up 6'4, probably 7.3.

I would say 7.3 through 10 rounds. So I'm the champion. I don't know. Just because I don't have some plastic title that they award. and hand out, okay, cool, that's just, you know, that's just what you guys think. Let's go, let's go ask the people. Let's go ask the people who's their champion. You know, I'm the people's champion, and I'm showing up for the people, and I'm just

getting started for the people. The people haven't seen nothing yet. I got a show, and I got entertainment to give them to make their lives so much better. What would mean more to you now, becoming the undisputed UFC Welthwaite champion by defeating somebody not named Kamar Usman or just beating Kamar Usman in a non-title fight? Just being, you know, Marty Fagg Newsman, that's it, you know, I'm a better fighter than him. We're so evenly matched that that's a fight that needs to be played out over a championship series, you know, a best seven, you know. That makes sense to do that because it's just such a close fight on paper, you know.

We, you know, we have so many, you know, similar attributes that we do with MMA, you know, in our game plan and style. So, you know, I think if we fought seven times, I'm beating him four, too. You know, he's gotten out to a lucky lead getting these first two because he had judges on his side. He had ref on his side. He cheated the whole time. I didn't cheat one time. I didn't poke him in the eyes.

I didn't grab a fence. I didn't hit in the back of the head when I warned the ref again. Hey, don't let him hit me in the back of the head. He loves to go right through the back of the head because they just knows that you hit someone in the back of the head to kind of short circuit some, man. It's a soft spot, man. You hit someone in the back of the head.

You're going to make them see stars very quickly. So, you know, I'm not a cheater. I'm not a coward like him. and there's no pride in Dana saying that. You know, I will be undisputed champion, and the long run is going to tell the truth about who was the better fighter. He's either going to retire and he knows he got lucky and get out of my way or, you know, he's going to stay around, and I will beat his ass.

Do you think you'll fight it? Do you think you'll ever fight him again? Like in your heart of hearts, do you feel like you'll fight him again? I feel like I will. You know, I feel like if he retired, You know, I mean, even he was talking about it after the fight and saying, hey, man, there might be a challenge you with Colby. So he knows deep down inside and his heart, like he hasn't shown that he's the better fighter, Mike. He's been in the arena with me for almost an hour now, two fights separately, 10 rounds.

And he knows that he hasn't proved that he's the better fighter. He hasn't left me unconscious. He didn't knock me out. He didn't submit me. He didn't dominate me pillar to post from round one to round five. No. I beat him both fights in multiple rounds. The last fight was clearly mine.

I had him so hurt in the fourth round. He shouldn't even have made it out. I mean, he's lucky he got the one-minute break and the coach was buying some more time to let him breathe a little bit recuperate. But through 10 rounds, man, he hasn't proved that he's a better fighter, man. He needs to come out here at Dalmat to show

that he's the best fighter. So he hasn't done that. And cool, man. You want to go claim to people either the champion and you're better than me, but deep down aside, you know, everybody knows the truth. I mean, let's, I'll be completely fair with you.

And I'm not just saying this because you're here. I said immediately after the fight that I want to see a third fight. Like I'm more interested in a third fight than I wasn't the second fight for being honest. I thought, I feel like you two are just tied together in the best possible way. It's a legitimate sports rivalry. Like I know it's personal with you. And it's probably still a little personal with him as well. But I think from a competitive sporting sense, I think you two guys were kind of made for each other.

Like you cross paths at the right time in your careers. Because I remember we did an interview long time ago. Like you were just getting into the top 15. You're both fight Dong Heong Kim. And Usman was kind of in the similar spot. And you had said a lot. I mean, you weren't a big fan of him back then. But I feel like that fight could have happened then and it wouldn't be as big as it is now.

I feel like you guys came together at the right time. Do you agree with that? Like personal feelings aside from a business sense, Colby Covington and Kamara Usman cross paths at the absolute perfect time. Yeah, Mike, I wanted to fight him earlier. I wanted to fight him as soon as he won the tough show and he was in the UFC. I asked his manager, you know, Glenn Robinson,

and I said, hey, let's fight, man, let's get this fight going. He didn't want to fight me. He was looking for any way around to maneuver through the UFC division to get to a title without fighting a good wrestler that could challenge him in that department because he'd just like to take guys down

and hold him down. But he knows he's not a better wrestler than me. He can't take me down. He can't hold me down. He doesn't even want to wrestle with me. He's so scared to do that. So I knew it was destiny that we were going to fight and cross past someday. To be honest, I'd fight that guy for free, man.

And that's a probably, that's a lot of what the second fight was about. I told the UFC, just give me this guy. I'm not looking to get paid. I just want to fight this guy. I fight him for free. If I see him out in the parking lot, I'll fight him there. If I see him in Miami, he's definitely getting swung on. And we just got unfinished business, man.

It's just, it's such a sour taste. in my mouth because I didn't get a fair shake and it just that's not how a rivalry should end. There should be closure, you know, and there's no closure to this fight. It's still an open chapter and, you know, the best parts of it are still written in to come. We'll see who keeps working hard, Mike. That's what's going to define everything. Who's going to stay in the gym? Who's going to be more hungry? Who wants it more? So I know how bad I want it. We'll see if he's still here next year, Mike. We got to talk about the Mazadal stuff because we've talked about this rivalry at Nazim at this point.

And it seems like the timing, talking about timing, it's perfect right now, especially with Mazadol withdrawing from his fight against Leon Edwards at UFC 269. I don't know if you saw this, but Mazadol was recently on the MMA hour and said that his first choice, if we're up to him, rebooked the fight with Leon in March. And then if that doesn't happen, you would sort of be the next guy. He'll baptize you, so forth and so on. Did you see that at all? And if so, how did you react to that?

Man, that's so funny because he had told like a close. friend of mine, like when I was still training at the old gym that I was at, that he trains at now, that he came up to me, like, after I beat Damien Amai, a guy who smoked him and beat him up. He was like, oh, Colby, I'm going to baptize him. If I see him,

he's getting baptized. He'd never say it to my face. He would just say to, like, my friends behind the back, was trying to act funny, trying to act like he was tough and he was street thug. He's tough, man. He'll beat you up on the street outside anywhere. Dude, that guy is such a little bitch, man. Every time he came around me, dude, just

tucked his tail between his legs, walked out the door, put his head down, never made eye contact with me because he knows better. He knows his my little son. So, you know, he's such a little bitch. He's a fragile little bitch, Mike. He was leaving the gym the other day crying because of his ribs. Oh, I'm so my ribs. Oh, my ribs hurt so bad. He's crying, literally like a little bitch. Dude, that's sad. Man. Get the fucking tissue. Go get a clean ex-sponsorship. So it's pretty pathetic, man. I know someone had to even drive him. You got little hurt ribs. Big, big deal, fragile boy, Maspedo.

Go drive your cell phone. Don't call someone else crying and have them drive you to the hospital because you're too soft to get there on your own. Do you feel like this will be the next fight for you? It's going to be you and Mazadol next, March, April, whenever. Do you feel like this is the one? To be honest, not really. I mean, and it will only be because of one side, and that's his side.

I mean, Mike, this fight was supposed to have it for eight months last year, you know. So I'm not going to get my hopes up. I could give a shit. I could give a fuck less about fighting this guy. He's a bum. He's a fucking, he's a street Judas journeyman. He's got 20 fucking losses. I don't give a fuck, dude.

The guy sucks. Mike, I've been beating him up for the last eight years. I mean, I used to leave him unconscious in our living room for free. So I have nothing to prove, Mike. I already know my legacy. I already know what I've done in this sport. I'm just going to keep evolving, keep getting better, and just keep lining them up and knocking them down one by one.

I'm going to keep winning and get my belt. So it doesn't matter if I fight him or if I fight him. or if I fight this Joe Schmo or this or that, I'm just going to keep winning and doing what I do best. And I can't control if guys want to fight me or not. You know, I know he don't want to fight me and he's scared. And, you know, he knows who his daddy is. But what can I do?

I'm just going to keep making the best fights that the people want, that the UFC wants. And, you know, if it happens, it happens. But I will not get my hopes up. I could give the shit less if I fight him. I've already beat him up so many times that whatever, dude. If he doesn't want to fight me and he goes into retirement or just leaves the sport forever

because he's a fragile little brittle bitch, then big deal. You know, I already know him as dad, and I owned him, so I got none to prove. Only he should have something to prove. He should come out and want to defend himself for all the mean things I said about him, you know, about, you know, hanging out with his ex-wife,

the mother as his children, you know, we had a good day together. You know, I played with Maritza, and we were playing video games, and we had a really good talk, you know, on the couch. And, you know, we were just talking about, you know, all the money that she's going to make from that little bitch

because he's got to pay out. and child support. So, you know, you should come on to shut my mouth, man. And, oh, man, I said some mean things. So you should come on to, you know, shut me up. But he's not going to do it, Mike. He knows who his dad is. A lot of people want to see you guys coach the ultimate fighter. And I get it. It would get people to watch. Good for everybody. I'm sure it'd be pretty lucrative for the two of you. And that's great. But I have to be honest, Colby, as fun as that would be to watch, this whole Ultimate Fighter show, it needs a. an overhaul. It's a great opportunity for the fighters. Always love that. Always love seeing

fighters get the shine that don't necessarily get it now. But dude, this show is the same as it was 15, 16 years ago. We're still even wearing the freaking basketball jerseys, Colby. It is all the same show. And as fun as you and Mazadol would be coaching against each other, it doesn't fix the show. You know what I mean? Like, how can we fix the show from a presentation level? You guys will bring some eyeballs. But how do we like, how do we fix the ultimate fight? Like if you could run the ultimate fighter, how do we fix it? I mean, you know, I don't want to step on the UFC's toes. That's their business.

And however they want to run their model, you know, then that's what's best for them and what's best for business in the ESPN. So, you know, I mean, I think the first and foremost, obviously the best way to fix the show is bring people in that are going to make it worth watching that are going to make you want to say, hey, I want to get my popcorn ready. I'm getting off work and I'm setting the DVR and I'm on the count. couch with my popcorn, ready to watch, you know, the Ultimate Fighter show at this time each week. So you need people that are going to bring that audience in, you know, people that have main street,

you know, name value, not just people that the casuals or the hardcore fans know. You need to know, you need to have people that, you know, the casuals know and are big name value in the spotlight. So, you know, people like me and people like Street Jewish Mosphidal are the type of people that bring those eyes in. You need people that have, you know, entertainment value and can create a show and really give the people their money's worth. So, you know, that's what I do. And I can't say that he does that. He's just fake.

He says all these things. And he doesn't ever back up any of the things he says. Everything I've told you, my whole entire career, like, has pretty much been right to a T. You know, I've backed up everything I've told you. I'm a man in my word. I mean, he can't say the same thing. He said all these things. He's talk reckless in the media.

Oh, it's on site when I see Colby. oh, I'm going to beat him up in the parking lot. Oh, I'm the sucker punch king. I run Miami. No, dude, I've seen you multiple times. You're scared. You're soft. I run Miami, and you're my son, Jorge Mastodom. So you would do this?

You would do the ultimate fighter, the whole damn thing? I would do it for the UFC, you know, for Hunter Campbell, for Dana White. You know, those are my people. You know, I take care of my people. So if that's what they want, they want to give me that opportunity, then I'm going to shine. I'm going to take that opportunity. and I'm going to do what I do best.

Just have fun, you know, and make the people laugh. Give them some entertainment, you know, and just, you know, but that's what's going to be through truth. The truthful things that I say to George, the honest truth. I know I'm like the back of my hand, man. We lived together for two years, trained together for eight years. You know, been all over the world together. So now he's my biggest enemy.

You know, I didn't think anybody could be a bigger enemy than Usman, but, you know, this guy's taking the cake. It's personal. We're going to fight one way or another, I promise you. It doesn't matter if it's in the octagon. We live pretty close to each other. I know he's in hiding. He won't come out and show face due to that face.

But one day, we will cross past, Mike, and it will end very, very bad. A couple last quick things, and I appreciate you giving me so much time. I know you've been asked about a lot of things already. But I do want to go back to something that you were asked about the Media Day, the Shamaa conversation, because you said what you said about them. I'm sure you're ready for that question. but even your buddy Chale Sunnan thinks that

if both sides are in, this could be a very big and potentially lucrative fight between the two of you guys. There would be a lot of buzz considering the excitement behind him, the excitement around you as well. Does that fight interest you in all? Because knowing the UFC,

it wouldn't shock me one bit to see that being a potential thing that they would want to put together. Is that interest you at all? Like if they came to you tomorrow and said, hey, you and Shemayev, co-main event, huge paper.

interview March or April. Would that interest you at all? Man, I can't believe that his mother named him Cumshot. That's such a disgrace, man. It's just like the disrespect, man. It's like his mom doesn't even give a shit about him. I don't think he celebrates Mother's Day. I think that's like over there in his country, wherever he's from. I don't think he celebrates that. Getting called Cumshot, man. Comshot's a joke though, Mike. That guy, he needs to be someone like worthy, like someone in the top five, someone in the top of the rankings, not just fight handpicked people.

And what has you got? Three, three, four UFC fights? What? The media loves to rush these kids, you know, and these hype jobs. And this is fighting, man. People get seriously hurt for rushing people like that. So if you guys want to rush a guy and take some time off his life and send him for a hospital trip, then, yeah, I'm always open for that.

I love doing good business. and I love doing business for the UFC, and it would be an honor to beat whoever they want me to be. And if that's the name they put in front of me, I can promise you I'm going to train extremely hard, Mike, and I'm going to show a new skill set that the world hasn't seen yet. And you kind of see that for me every fight. I get better every fight.

I add new layers to my game. So whoever they try to match me up with next, you will see a new layer to my game, and someone's going to get seriously hurt. I was playing before. Now I'm fucking serious. Now I'm really pissed off. and I want my belt, and anybody in my way is going to find out how bad they're going to get beaten for trying to get in the way of my belt.

Is it kind of tough for you to watch how much buzz he's getting right now? Because people are literally talking about him fighting for the belt right now. Like get him right in there with Usman. It took you, what, 10 fights, like eight or nine wins to get to that Dosanjo's fight and to see him get some of these opportunities. It seems like you said, the promotion is ready to push him to the moon. Is that frustrating for you to watch? I know you don't regret anything, and the road you took is the road you took, but is it kind of frustrating for you watching this when it took you so long?

Not really, Mike, because I think what we've learned with not only just for sport and the U.S.C. is with the world. And the way this world has changed and the way it is these days, you know. This is the handout generation, you know. Handouts are awarded on the daily. You know, the government loves to give out handouts left and right. And so, you know, and it's the participation trophy generation. So, you know, this guy is nothing more than a participation trophy winner and, you know, handout winner.

And, you know, that's what they want to do. That's what it is. You know, I don't really even look into what other people are doing or what they're being awarded. You know, I know my path. I know my journey and what it took to get here. You know, I took the long road. I didn't cut any corners. I didn't cheat.

I've never cheated or done anything in the octagon or outside the octagon to warrant. cheating and and you know I took the road hard road here so I just I feel like that's the true American way you know nothing's given to us here in America adversity is filled every single day and we have to overcome these obstacles if we want to make it to the path of success so you know I don't pay attention to anything that I only stay in my lane and focus on you know what's in my land I don't really focus on other people's land big fucking deal you know you got to hand out the participation trophy but you know in the long run people aren't going to remember that they're just to remember what happened. It's had the octagon.

So you would be open to that fight if everything was presented the right way? Mike, I'm the best fighter in the entire planet. I'm the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. I'm unisputed. I'm the undefeated, you know, never been stopped, never been even touched in the octagon. I'll fight anybody. You know, that's what the best in the world they do. They come out and they prove it. You know, I'm willing to prove it. You know, guys like Jorge Masseville, he won't prove it. He just says things to the media. He talks reckless, but he won't prove it. I'm out here ready to prove it. So anybody, bring them all. Just don't expect to get them back to one piece, Mike.

Colby, I think I've taken up enough of your time. I just looked to the clock. I was like, holy shit, we've been talking for like 40-something minutes now. So I appreciate we've been doing this for a while. Sometimes time just goes by, Colby, you know? It's just going by. I'm thankful for this time. It is Thanksgiving Eve as we record this right now. You're drinking your bang energy drink. What is that flavor, by the way? I know you're talking to Lynch about it. And it drove me crazy that I couldn't remember it. Was it nectarine blueberry? Nexorine blueberry, man.

This one's a game changer. I'm telling anybody out there. You need to try this one. This is one of their newest flavors. I know you can get them at vitamin shop. So if you go to the vitamin shop, you can get that. If you have a Kroger's, Kroger's will probably have them as well. And I was also eating one of their protein bars, man.

This jump bar. Delicious, man. Man, I'm telling you, this is the perfect stocking stuffer. You want to get some good stocking, like, healthy? like people need to promote good health and like eating healthy they're talking about all this stuff that can kill you you know like fast food and candy and this and that man let's you know let's be healthy let's let's bring healthy back and yeah no better way than bang energy shout out to jack o'wop colby i appreciate the time very much enjoy your thanksgiving enjoy time with family and friends

and if we don't speak enjoy the rest of the year and hopefully we see you back there March April and in a big time fight man i appreciate you at the time and tremendous fight at UFC 268. It was a joy to watch. It was just two high-level guys getting after it, and I enjoyed it very much. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate that.

It's good to talk to you again and all the talks that we've had along the journey for the last 10 or so years, and I look forward to talking to you again after the holidays. Happy holidays to you and the family. God bless you guys, and I'll talk to you soon.

You too, man. Thank you again. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. You know, Thank you.