MMA Fighting - DAMN! They Were Good | Saying Farewell To Robbie Lawler, The Most Exciting Fighter To Ever Do It

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

DAMN! They Were Good celebrates the careers of the most exciting and influential fighters in MMA history. On this episode, the MMA Fighting crew looks back on the legendary career of Robbie Lawler, the most exciting fighter ever to step into a cage. Lawler began his MMA career in 2001 and for the next 22 years, "Ruthless" made it his mission to provide as much entertainment as humanly possible for anyone watching. On top of his numerous other accolades, most notably holding the UFC welterweight title from 2014 to 2016, Lawler is the only person in history to win Fight of the Year three times (consecutively, no less). On top of that, two of those bouts - his fights with Carlos Condit and Rory MacDonald - are widely viewed as the two greatest bouts in MMA history. That would be more than enough for any fighter but Lawler added one final cherry to the top of his peerless resume, authoring the best retirement in UFC history with his 38-second knockout of Niko Price in his final bout at UFC 290. There is no single fighter that better speaks to what DAMN is all about, and so in honor of his recent retirement and induction into the UFC Hall of Fame, MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew, Shaheen Al-Shatti, and Steven Marrocco look back on the career of the most exciting fighter to ever live. Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @ShaunAlShatti Follow Steven Marrocco: @MMAFightingSM Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just... Speaking into the void. But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching. the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title?

See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. What's up, y'all? We are back. It's your boy Jedmushu of Mn MN.5.com. great website and it's another edition of damn they were good and damn it is good because today

we have the privilege of talking about really the guy for whom this podcast was built i mean i say that this podcast is about remembering our favorite are the most exciting fighters of all time and i don't think it gets any better than robert glen lalla that's right the original bobby knuckles he retired at ufc two 90s went out on a high note. We're going to talk all about it. Before we do, let me introduce you to the panel this week. Very, very excited. As always, a couple of my bosses, frankly, at the aforementioned MMAfighting.com, the best damn writer in the game, Shaheen Alshadhi, and the best damn reporter in the game, Mr. Stephen Morocco, fellas. Are you as excited about this as I am? Oh, more so. More so. I have been waiting for this podcast. entire life. I've been waiting about an hour. And I am excited for it. For those of you at home, we've had some technical difficulties and now we're back online, but we're good. Stephen,

pulling back the curtain on the troubles to even get to this point. This may or may not have been the fifth time we've tried to record this. But, you know, we power through. We power through for Robert Glenn Lawler because ultimately Jed, we've said this three different times now, but Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan, they have heat, right? Like, that's the rewatchables. The heat is the genesis of the rewatchables. It is, in essence, what the rewatchables is. Robbie Lawler is our heat.

I cannot wait for the reallor, for the re-lawler, and then the re-re-Loller, 50 episodes from now. Like, this is just, we've been waiting our whole lives for this podcast. Shane, don't tempt me with a good time. I will absolutely redo a Robbie Lawler podcast in like a month from now. So let's start here because Robbie Lawler retired at UFC 290. Goes out on a high and we've already peeled back the curtain once. We'll do it again. I thought about doing this last week, you know, to coincide with his induction into the UFC Hall of Fame.

But ultimately it was like, you know, let's just wait. Got one more fight. Couldn't be happier with that choice because... Great call. the way he went out, we would have immediately had to re-lawler it just to talk about it. And so I want to start right there because before we do any of the categories, always like to have kind of a broader topic, coming fresh off the win over Nico Price, is that the greatest retirement in the history of this sport guys?

I feel comfortable saying it, even knowing that it's a bit of prisoner of the moment, but that feels like one of the best things that could have ever happened. Am I crazy? No, you're not crazy. I mean, it is. It is. I was afraid to say it the night of UFC 290 for the exact reason that you just said, right? Like, we are so often prisoners of the moment, we are so often just hyperbolic when we're

coming off nights that feel special, right? And that night felt genuinely special for that reason, but for a lot of reasons. Now that we've had some time, it absolutely is the greatest retirement in MMA history. Like, you could point to Habib Norga Madoff or George St. Pierre, or whoever. but like that's different right like those that's a different type of thing that's choosing to walk away that this is like robert robert glan luther like needed to walk away he wasn't habib just calling it quits halfway through like this was one of the forced on the way at the door type of retirements and we've just seen time and time again that those don't ever go even remotely well like even if a guy wins maybe

he doesn't look great doing it i could think of two instances out the top of my head of something like this actually happening one's chris lydell and Chris Lytle is not Robbie Lawler, and Robbie Lawler is obviously the other one. So to me, this was objectively the most magical, most special, like best send-off for an actual faded legend that we've ever seen. And it was awesome. It was amazing. I would argue one thing to the contrary on that, the send-off opponent.

I think if they were trying to send him off in the way that they do a lot of guys that they like less, it would have been a matchup that would have been less favorable to him. I'm of the opinion that Nico Price was a perfect, perfect retirement opponent because he is just risk-prone enough to roll the dice by throwing down with Robbie Lawler, and we saw how that all turned out. But in addition to that, I would say it's unique, just purely for the way they framed it,

You know, just the, have we ever seen a guy get to relive his past in the Octagon in a retirement announcement? No. No. Right? No. And I think that makes it completely special to me. I think they did it for Cowboy, too, right? Like, they did this recently with Donald Serroney.

I don't remember that. That was a much more somber. That was a much more somber. I could be, maybe I'm making that up. I feel like I saw that. But maybe I'm making it up. But like even still, that was much more somber moment than this. this was celebratory.

Like this was just a not a feeling that I actually have felt before for one of these type of moments, right? Like we've never get the full coalescence of like, oh, that was rad what just happened. And then, oh, like, this is really cool to be able to relive this. Yeah. And I see, and I think that that the further we are away from it, the more I can't believe I'm saying this because I never say it, the more credit you have to give to the UFC because of that, that framing is what made it special, right?

Like, Robbie could have lost that fight. And if he did this, it wouldn't have hit the same way. But the fact that it all sort of converged in this way and that the UFC teed it up to have it be knocked out of the park like this. Because that, I mean, I've said this a million times at this point. When I look back in 10 years, I'm not going to, I'm probably not going to remember Alexander Volcanovsky's dominant performance or the tremendous fight of the year candidate that the co-main event was. I'm just going to look back and see the picture by picture of Robbie Lawler watching back his highlights and the wonderful things being said about him.

And this man breaking on television and just can't fight back the emotion. Robbie Lawler can't fight back the emotion. And I damn sure couldn't either sitting on my couch. Like, it got me twice. Both of you cried, right? Both of you cried. Yes. I got close

I got me twice I got damn close I got a real damn close the playback got me and then and it's the stupidest thing ever but when he when they hit

when they hit Sam and Dave as he's exiting the cage the hold on I'm coming that just that got me again I was like oh my God they got me twice it was it was incredible and I am so happy

that we didn't do this last week because we would just be doing, I would be like, all right, guys, we got to reconvene. What an incredible synod of that was. Although, to counter,

maybe we should have done it, so then we would have had an opportunity to re-lawler so quickly. We re-lawler immediately, but, okay, the other big thing that I, I'm going to save one of them,

but the other topic before we get into the categories, because it's the first time here, we talk about all things, Robbie Loller, through the lens of categories. But the other broadest question, and maybe it's a bit simplistic, but feels pretty fitting for Robbie Lawler. Is he the most exciting fighter that we've ever seen?

He's certainly in the conversation, but gunned to your head right now is Robbie Lawler the most exciting fighter that has ever competed in mixed martial arts? I would say yes. I would say yes. And there's a reason I would say yes. I love that. That's a strong, confident answer. support it. It's not the obvious answer, right? Like, there are a lot of fighters throughout history that you can point to as having consistently exciting performances. Van der LeSilva, Justin Gaichy,

Connor McGregor, like who there are, you could, you could just keep rattling them off, and there's a lot of them. For me, Robbie Lauder is the most exciting fighter of all time for a reason that you said very, it was a point you made very eloquently on the night of UFC 290, which has stuck with me since, and I've thought about it a lot. And to me, it rings true. Because there are certainly greater fighters in the history of this wonderful sport. But I don't know that there has been a fighter that has been more impactful to my own fandom and my own love of the sport over a longer period of time than Robbie. Because there are others who have done it for shorter periods of time. Like, right? Like I came up, Anderson Silva was my favorite. Shogun Huah, they were my two

favorites. Those were my guys. But their bursts. were shorter. It was more contained. Robbie Lawler has been literally in this making memories for me for 24 years. Like he more than anyone else has evoked more motion from me and made me feel more things than anyone in the history of the sport. And the fact that in year 24, he was still doing it and doing it to the degree that he did speaks volumes to, I think, what he means to the sport, the legacy that he leaves behind. And absolutely, like, that to me is why he is the most exciting fighter of all time is because he didn't do it for like five years or eight years.

Dude literally did it for 24 years. Just banger after banger after banger. Unprecedented in any combat sport, really. And like I don't like when we were sending him out the week of 290, I wrote in something we did. I think maybe the roundtable that Robbie Lawler is a true one of one. And this to me, it rings so much truer now than it ever has after we saw what we saw 290 because he's undoubtedly

the most violent competitor. I don't know if that's the same as entertaining, but he has the most violent title. A big overlap in those two things, certainly. Chewing on a route, Mount Rushmore of most entertaining fighters. I've said this on a bunch of different things, but it's him and Justin Gachy and then whoever else you want to

throw in there. Those guys will get it. Only man to ever gobble up three fight of the year awards from this website from 2014-2016. Consequently. Consequently. Concecutively. consecutively, at the top of the game against top level opponents, too. Winner of at least two of the greatest fights of all time, at least two of the greatest fights.

And to me also, one element to this, the owner of one of, if not the single, most unexpected yet spectacular second act in UFC history. Because you can point to like a Michael Bisbing or a Glover to Chera, because those guys will always have like the wildest late career sort of heroics that transforming this legacy that was one thing and then all of a sudden becomes another thing. but to me, Robbie Lather has just the greatest late career evolution in MMA history because he was at like year 15 or 16 when he actually did all of this. And then he just continued doing it for another decade.

Like the more refined technical savage that that man became way after the fact, that's at a time when almost all of his peers from Bettendorf, all the Bettendorf boys, the Militorch boys were done by the time Robbie did this. And then he just like carved the best part of his career out. when Jen's Pulver and was like losing 40 fights in a row and Matt Hughes was retired. Like the timeline of all of this is just blows me away. It doesn't actually make sense. So to go back to your answer your question, yes, he is the most exciting fighter of all time

because he did it because most consistently for the longest of anyone ever. Stephen, how do you feel on this? I don't necessarily have an issue with that. I mean, I would definitely say he's top five for me. I don't necessarily have the personal connection that I think maybe puts it over the hump for Sean, but he's definitely top five. He's done it. I was just looking at the video, every Robbie Loller finish. It's a long video. There's a lot of footage. This guy has been concussing people for an entire lifetime, you know, and that's a really, really hard thing to do

in this sport, as Sean said, that the longevity, the amount of times he's been able to do this employ his best weapons is is pretty staggering. And I would argue, yes, that there are some fighters that maybe burned brighter, but it was for a shorter period of time. So I would say, yeah, maybe top three for me and, you know, definitely always in the conversation. Yeah, Sheen, I love that argument because I have sort of operated under the assumption that Justin Gichi is the most exciting fighter of all time. And I don't think that's wrong if that wants to be your case. But The fact is, Robbie is Justin Gachie just with 10 extra years tacked on. And so I think that at that point you make, like, if Justin Gachie can continue to do this for another decade or half a decade, but Robbie has just been that guy basically from day one, which is, and his career is taking a bunch of evolutions and we'll get into all of that.

But it's really hard for me to look back at his career. and again, your mileage is everybody's mileage and opinion is going to vary. And a lot of that will be, as Stephen said, a personal connection will carry you a long way in that sort of conversation. But I don't think that there's anybody who could ever take issue with you saying, Robbie Lawler is the most exciting fighter of all time, which is an incredible achievement in a sport where people can take issue with absolutely anything. So, yeah, I am, I'm so excited. about this one, particularly as we got, as I started to get into the research in the categories. And we talked about it some this week as we've sort of looked through it. And Stephen alluded to it,

deep catalog here, boys. There is. Fun research, man. It really enjoyed the research on this one. It was incredibly fun. I got to, I went and revisited some fights that I've seen a million times. Wouldn't revisited some fights I haven't seen or thought about in years. I feel like I learned a whole lot of things that I at one point knew, but just a wonderful amount of stuff to get into. And some of the most difficult category answers, I think, we've ever had in the show. Really quickly, let me throw out one other thing that I realized in doing the research, because you're right, I had some, I'm so glad that you sent me on this, in this rabbit hole of Robbie Lauder videos, because there's so much wonderful footage over 24 years that you've

completely forgotten about. You're right. Like all of this that was embedded deep in my brain than I forgot about. I think that this man I think that this man also holds the title of for a person below 200 pounds the most men just straight separated from consciousness of all time like the most men sent to the land of winds and ghost

under 200 pounds because the degree to which his resume is littered with pure knockouts like pure K-O punch violent Rather than TKO punches, there is a lot of them. And they are brutal. And there is so many that I forgot about. Oh, yeah. I didn't realize how many there were until we started doing it.

I was just like, man, this is an endless well of people getting separated from their brains right now. It just keeps going back. Because you remember all the highlights and the ones that you've seen in the video packages. And look, some of those are still some of the best. but like I totally forgot the Tiki Ocean chaos, which is unbelievable. Like just so many of those things happen. It's pretty insane. Do the Frank Trigg one?

Like he's lucky Frank Trigg didn't die. I never forget that one because that one pops up on Twitter highlights a lot for pretty good reason because that was very scary one. But yeah, just just fantastic. And I'm so excited because the other thing about Robbie too, and we'll get into this is like, just a good dude. Like, sometimes you go back and you've forgotten

when you're going in the Wikipedia dive of like, oh, there's also this like troubling portion of this fighter's history that I kind of just forgot about because I was thinking too much. It's like, no, Robbie Lawler is universally beloved for a reason, like just, who doesn't like this man? Who was upset with 290? I don't even think Nick.

Rico Price and his family were like mad about what happened. Everybody is universally stoked on it. And that's not a thing that happens in this sport. Yeah, Stephen, you made this case. You pointed this out in our Slack room. We're talking about this all week of like 24 years, this guy. Is there a single bad story, bad headline, arrest, anything that this, like any point of trouble?

Like, that's always been the thing with LeBron James, right? the fact that he was able to be so famous, so early in his life, and not only succeed in, fulfill people's expectations, but also surpass them, but also that while doing that, he kept his nose so clean. Like, he did not get into a single ounce of trouble for the most part. And, like, the biggest thing you can fault him for is, like, the decision. Like, Robbie Lawler kind of has that, where, like, you can't really point to any part of this guy's life that was like, oh, man, he really, like, messed up that night.

He got arrested that night, like, that type of thing. Really incredible. Yeah. And believe me, I tried to find some stuff, and I couldn't. The Reaper was coming. The Reaper did not succeed. Did my best to ruin this for everyone and just couldn't do it. All right, before we hop into the categories, in case somehow you don't know who Robbie Lawler is, and this is your first exposure.

Welcome to the party, guy. You're going to have some fun. A very brief recap of his career started in 2001. One month after turning 19, Robbie Law, It's like, hey, I'm going to start fist fighting dudes. Jen's Pulver gave a story to the MMA hour last week, this week, one of those two where he's like, yeah, I remember meeting Robbie. He's just like a 17-year-old kid who had a two-by-four stuck through his windshield,

drove up and needed to go fight in a tough man contest to win a thousand bucks so he could pay to fix his windshield. And I was like, that's the most Robbie Lawless story I've ever heard. In terms of origin stories, that's like you couldn't write a better one. Yeah, he's like wrestling in high school and like the local high school gym showed up. Needed to win a tough man to fix his windshield. It's like incredible. Shortly after that, he started fighting. Pro debut in 19 and 2001.

USC debut a year later. Up and down, kind of bounced around, moved to Elite XC, won the middleweight title there in 2007, then went to Strike Force for returning to the USC in 2013. Capper of his career beats Johnny Hendricks who claimed the UFC welterweight title, Defends it a few times, loses it at UFC 201. We'll talk about that as the first event I ever went to. And then there's the in-stretch of his career, ultimately culminating in the 290 win.

All told, Robbie Lawler finished his career 30 and 16 with one no contest. He won five. Fight of the Night Awards, one K.O. of the Night. Three of those Fight of the Night Awards were a fight of the years in 2014, 15, and 16. He was inducted to the Hall of Fame last week, basically, in the fight wing. Though I think we can all acknowledge, Roby Lala will probably be a two- or three-time inductee because he will certainly go on his own merits, and there's at least one more fight that's going to make it into the hall one day. That's the rundown. Now we get to the fun stuff.

We get into the awards, and we start, as always, the Mount Rushmore. You got four fights, and we talked about this off-air. Listeners, we're sticking to four, but I will tell you, I very strongly considered making a Robbie Lawler rule where we did two Mount Rushmore, one for knockouts and one for fights, because three of the fights seem to be taken up. When you have three fight of the years, they probably all go on the Mount Rushmore. Only guy in history who's going to have this particular problem, but that's how it goes sometimes. So probably, unless somebody has taken a really aggressive stance, which frankly I would

support, probably we're going to have three of the same and then the question will be for the fourth. But we're going to talk about a lot because I think there are million viable honorable mentions. But let's start at the top. Let's start with a fight we have talked about at length on this program before because we already did this show for the other man in this fight. My pick for the best fight of all time. Scalo's Condit, UFC 195. That is the first. first fight up on my Mount Rushmore. I am assuming it is on both of yours. Yeah.

I mean, that's a top five fight all time. I don't have it as the goat fight like you do, but it's top five easily. And the photo of them afterwards hanging on the cage is iconic. It's the best thing ever. If you don't have that fight, you're insane. And so I assumed it. I will say, love this program for many reasons, getting to go back and watch that fight yet again. It was just the best.

And I, because the last time we did this was obviously from Carlos Condit's point of view. And I think when I went back and rewatch that fight, there was a little bit of a Condit bend to it. I have always sort of thought Condit won that fight. I'm actually now sort of of the opinion that maybe Condit won it or maybe it just should have been a draw. It's really tough for me to judge the fifth round because it's so chaotic. But certainly looking at it this time from a Robbie Lawler point of view, as I sort of came into it with, just. in all time unbelievable performance from Robbie Luller down the stretch there. And I don't think, I want to have this conversation now because I don't think it gets enough credit.

For reasons that I understand, it is so trite and somewhat simplistic and stupid to say that like a fighter ever wants it more than another fighter because they all want it. They all want it to a level that I can't even really fathom. But if you watch that fifth round, it is, and to a lesser extent on a number, other fight, which I'm sure we'll talk about the Roy McDonald rematch. Robbie Lawler goes into the fifth round and he just wants it. He wills himself to a victory there in a way that, again, I'm not sure he even should have gotten it, but you cannot say that he didn't do everything in his physical power to win that fight in the fifth round against Carlos Condit.

Carlos just didn't break. And it made for the most electric 90 seconds of fist fighting. I've still ever seen to this day. That last 90 seconds is like, I wrote down in my notes, y'all remember when Max Holloway pointed to the K, like, Florin was like, Ricardo Lama, fight me for 10 seconds. And he did and everyone lost their mind.

Robbie and Carlos did that for a full minute and half at the end of that fight. And it was insane. So I can just never say enough good things about this fight. It's the best thing I've ever seen. Well, yeah, no disagreement from us. I guess, I mean, the real debate, like you said, is what other fights are we choosing

other than those I have two like I'm not sure what the third one is I mean because we all know what the other one is right you know the other one is the Roy McDonald's UFC 189 which is also number two on my Mount it's the goat fight it's the goat fight and that's Shaheen's pick for goat fight Stephen where do you

come down on the Condit versus McDonald Lawler fight order because there's two very clear camps in that and they're honestly it's the best because those camps aren't like this fight's better it's this fight is the best fight of all time. No, this fight is the best fight of all time.

Rory stuck, the Rory fight stuck with me more. There was more, more, and it was, you know, it didn't have anything to do with fighting. It had everything to do with that between the round interaction. Like, the not fighting. The imagery is so much better in that fight, a thousand percent. That's right. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the fight over the top for me. makes it iconic.

Yeah. I guess you could say about, you know, Muhammad Ali's, you know, like when somebody says, you know, like standing over Sunny Liston, you know,

that kind of iconic moment. Doesn't have anything to do with fighting necessarily. Not actually physically exchanging punches. It's the emotion that comes with it. And the aesthetics, right? The aesthetics of the lip,

just looking like Robbie Law, there's straight out of a horror movie. And the stare down, mid round, or end round, stare down, and just all of it. Just like seeing a guy like Rory pushed to that place to where he actually just kind of had to give up. And like no one is crapping on him for it. No one's saying like,

oh, Rory, you're a quitter. It's like, no, like you gave up at a point when 99.9% of humanity would have already given up like a while ago. Like I just see aesthetics of that fight and sort of how Rory, like there's always that image, right? That famous image, the iconic image of Rory, just sort of looking dead in between rounds when the rounds about to start. The aerial has a bobblehead of that is like eerily, eerily. It's really good. It's super, super accurate. He just looks like an actual zombie.

As I went back and watched that fight, I will say, I had two real thoughts. It was like, one, I first was like, why are people thinking this fight so good? And Rewatch is like, it's not that good because the first two rounds, it's certainly a slow burn. Super slow burn. And then the third round kicks off. And I'm like, oh, yeah, this is why people love this fight. This fight actually does rule.

I forgot that this whole thing starts to unfold as, as Rory kicks him in the head and Robbie's in the world of her. And then, yeah, I do think that the big argument between the two fights, because I still believe that the Condit McDonald fight, I think Condit is just a better, more fun overall fight. I have, it's impossible to argue that. that the imagery of the McDonald fight is just better. Like, it's, those are images that will last for as long as this sport does.

Robbie in the corner, a lot of love for the Robbie Stairdown. Totally get it. Absolutely. I love Robbie in the corner talking to his team when he is destroyed. And it's just like, I feel fucking great. I feel fucking great. And I'm like, oh, my God, he's going to go kill it. You see Rory with the thousand-yard death stare.

Robbie's like, let's go. This is me. Robbie's in his element, man. Like, that's who he was born to be. In a different lifetime, Robbie is on, he's wearing an insane suit of armor on a battlefield in, like, the year 800, just being the scourge of the world. And you're terrified of this man swinging a battle axe at you. Like, that's who this man is.

And he was in his element. Also, let us not forget. the fact that like these two fights that we're arguing about as the greatest fights of all time happened to literally seven months within each other by the same human being. What the fuck does that even mean? That doesn't make sense to me. Like six months prior to the fucking Rory one, he also fought Johnny Hendricks for the fight of the year too. So it's all insane.

Yeah, I definitely came from this with even more of an appreciation for the Rory fight. and because I'll just he he broke Rory and that's like that is the other really big like kind of forever for I mean absolutely forever and like as in a very very basic level as I was rewatching these two fights and comparing it was like sort of the the difference here is that Robbie broke Rory and that is a better narrative and it's a it's a cooler thing like undeniably it is cooler to watch Robbie break this man. And Conda just could not be broken. And so he ended up, they broke each other for the rest of their careers, basically.

But it's, yeah, it is an embarrassment of riches to have both of these fights in your resume. It's like, yeah, I did that twice. Just insane. And I don't want to bring the mood down, but just like one sad note to that fight that I can consider the greatest fight of all time. You know how much money Rory McDonald made for that fight? Not enough. Less than 60K.

Really? Wow. Hopefully you got a background bonus. Hopefully you got a little something extra on the top. His payout for that fight when Vegas still recorded payouts was $59,000. That is. Yeah. I would have thought more for Rory.

That's less than Sage Northcut made in like his third UFC fight, man. That's insane. That is tough. I also, another thing that struck me, and I guess I knew at the time, but it didn't, I just feel like Rory's older than he is. Because he's only 33 now and his career is over. He's retired and it felt like his career was over for a while. It just didn't register with me until I'm rewatching it. And they're like, he's 25.

I'm like, wow. He's a kid, man. He's a child. That is insane. He was GSB's protege for a long time. Yeah. I just, in my head, he feels much older than he is, but that's not, it's just, it's very odd. So one and two, those are going to be on any human being who knows any single thing about Robbie

Lollah, those two are going to be there. I added the Johnny Hendricks fight. This one, the rematch of UFC 181, this one is the one I would be the most willing thus far to remove from Mount Rushmore. I don't think I ultimately can because, uh, really. We can talk about the fight because I think the fight is actually, it is very good. I'm not sure it should have been the fight of the year that year. But everything else about this fight, Jeanne, at the top of the hour, at the top of the intro, you said something that I think is really true.

And it's that Robbie Lawler's sort of second career arc is incredible. And this is the fight that if we didn't have the NICO price ending, right, like if that never happened for whatever reason, this is still one of the best feel good. moments in MMA. Robbie Lawler, 12 years after the fact, sort of delivering on the promise that you think in this spectacular, spirited way,

beating a guy who already beat him. I know the fight's very contentious, but that coronation was such a moment that even if I don't think that this is, this is a very clearly several tiers below the two top ones, and it's still a fight of the fucking year. It's like, this still means too much to his career.

and it is a damn good fight. I rewatched it again this morning. It still holds up as a really good fight. It's just not as good as two other fights this man had, which is insane. So do you all have this one added in yours as well, or did someone take the bold stance of going? No on the Hendricks one. Well, which there's two of them.

The rematch is the one I have. So I don't have either of them, and I hate to do this to you midstream, but that was actually not the one that won fight of the year for us. The one that won fight of the year was the first. The first fight. Oh. It was the first fight.

Because that was a better fight, actually. That was the better fight. That's the one that I have. I didn't realize that that was the one that won a thing. It's definitely a better fight. So, ooh, interesting. Yeah, that's the one I have. Okay.

I don't have. So you, Stephen, you have that on your Rushmore. And it's because a personal connection. It's because I was there cage side for it. And I have never experienced that kind of level of violence as an intimate spectator. Like, as you guys know, I've been obsessing about judging, MMA judging for a long time. And, you know, people talk about how the, you know, they complain about judges' scores, you know, how could they have seen this? How could they have scored it this way? And it is so critical

that they are close to the action. Having that intimate connection with the impact of these things has a huge, it plays a huge factor in the ultimate outcome. So being that close to that level of violence, it physically affected me in a way that a fight has never affected me before. I was thinking about this earlier and there was one other fight that kind of came close to it, a fight that, you know, nobody would probably remember, but Sam Stout, I think it was Samstout versus Paul Taylor. Like, I just remember the, the velocity of the violence, like how fast and how often

they were hitting each other. This one completely kicked that out of the water. Like, these guys were hitting each other full force at this incredible clip for five rounds. And I was just, it was shocking the level of violence that, uh, that I was party to. And so that's, to me, it's that personal connection that kind of puts it up there in the top four. I mean, yeah, this is, this is, I'm glad that you informed me of this Sheen, because I just assumed in my head or whatever that it was the 181. Also insane to think that he fought, that Robbie Lawler fought four times in 2014, including twice with Johnny Hendricks in extremely fun and very even matchups. It's definitely the better fight.

Sheen, is this on your list? So this one's not on my list either. neither of the Hendricks ones are on my list. And the fact that you can be in a fight of the year that's a championship fight and not make the Mount Rushmore speaks volumes to who this human being is because there's no one else in the sports history that probably would be able to pull that off. Stephen, I like you, was Caged side for this fight. And I will never forget it.

You are right. the seeing live fights is is a different experience than watching it on the TV. That's no, not breaking any news there. Anybody who has been to a live fight will tell you that even like a pro, like even like an amateur event or like a rage in the cage or just, you know, like a local show. Like seeing what this actually does to human beings and the violence up close, the car crash nature of it, like you said, the velocity of it, the sound of some of the punches, things like that. It is a very visceral experience that is so far removed from. what you're seeing off your computer screen or your TV screen.

Up to that point in my life, I had never seen violence quite like the first Lawler Hendrix fight up close. And it was a real eye-opener of like this. Okay, like this is what this is. I kind of knew this what this is. But now I have a better, deeper understanding of what this is. And so, yeah, that I will never forget that. But somehow that did not make my list because there's just too much.

Like the wealth of options is just too extravagant. that is just like, I got to leave something off because I want it. Because for me, maybe I'm the only one. Nico Price has to be on this. Like, Nico Price has to be on this Mount Rushmore because it's the greatest retirement of all time. It has to be on this. Nico Price rounds went out.

I do want to say one last thing about the UFC 171 thing just because it feels relatively important. At the time had the most significant strikes landed in a welterweight title fight. And the fight of the year. And all of them were hard. Like, all of them were extremely, the difference in Max Holloway numbers, sure, but like, we're talking something close to what Max Holloway does. Only it's Johnny Hendricks and Robbie freaking law are doing it. So absolutely, absolutely insane.

People, people meme all over Johnny Hendricks, but there was like a window there where he was terrifying. Dude, as I rewatch these two fights, one of my dominant thoughts was, how the hell did he just? fall off. Like, just out of nowhere. I mean, look, there are some arguments, but that's not the conversation we're here to have. But I'm just sitting there watching, like, this dude is very good at this. He was awesome.

Stop being good almost overnight. He was so fun. He was incredibly fun fighter for like three years. Particularly because I love the like not rocked up physique, just like almost a dad bod, not quite, but just like just a regular dude out there who's kicking the shit out of Robbie Lawler for big long stretches it's awesome uh but yes Shaheen rounding out my rushmore is exactly what you said I battled with this fun for some time and I ultimately did settle on Nico price uh and then I put everything else basically in a future category to talk about but I went for the Nico price

because it's the best retirement ever it's hard to imagine a better way for him to exit the sport that's realistic. And it's, it is one that I know for sure. I will go back to time and time again in the future years. I'll just be like, I need a pick you up. Pretty easy to watch. Yeah. Hey, pick me up.

Let me, let me just carve out 38 seconds of my day and I'll, I'll lift my mood. And so I did round it out with Nico Price. Sheen, you have it on there. Stephen, did you put Nico Price on there or, or I did, I sort of didn't assume you would. So you've got Condit and McDonald and you've got Hendricks 1. What rounds out your Mount Rushmore? So if the assignment is to show a loved one or a friend for fights that encapsulate Robbie Lawler, to me, just personally, I don't know why, but it's the Melvin Manhoff

assassination. Oh, yes. And it's because he was hurt. He was, you know, Robbie was really hurt. that fight was really not going his way for about two seconds. And the way he just ducks, clocks him with the right, and deads him with the left. Like, just out cold. It's just.

And out of nowhere, too. Out of nowhere. They're writing his obituary. Yeah. And then boom. It's the most perfect right hand anyone has ever thrown. Yeah. And that's Robbie Loller to me.

you are you can't ever count this guy out he's going to hurt you like he is always dangerous i mean i have absolutely no issue with that one whatsoever uh i have it down in a separate category but yeah um if you're just looking at chaos too that's as good as it gets so that was my i'm looking at my list it was my second runner up i have one more runner up in front of that but sheen i think we need one more from you? Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. The way I look at Rushmore is like I feel like I need to be able to tell an athlete's

story of their career somewhat through these four fights, at least like a little bit. Like maybe not the whole way, but it needs to be like all encompassing. And for a Mount Rushmore to just kind of start at year 15, feels weird a little bit. So it's like I felt like I needed some sort of like early career representation. And so like you said, you told the audience even that, you know, you consider doing like a knockouts from Rushmore and then like a normal rushmore. It would have been incredibly easy to do four fights and four knockouts for him. We could have pulled that off easy. Would not have been hard whatsoever.

This would have been a five hour podcast, but we could have pulled it up. Still might be. Let's not rule it out. But so I just felt I felt like I needed something early. And so I was looking through, you know, the early catalog, early catalog reminding myself of all these great highlights. The one I settled on the most was, I believe it was his third UFC fight. Yes, it was his third UFC fight. It's Tiki Gosin.

It's Tiki Gosin, who this was the real breakout moment. Because up to this point, Robbie Law, there is an intrigue, he's dangerous, he's fun. But we didn't really know, is he like for real? Is he like about to be just someone special? And I had forgotten the lead up to this fight and sort of the circumstances around this fight. And if you've never seen this and you're listening to this, go YouTube this real quick. Because I found a YouTube of the pre-fight interviews package that kind of was attached to this. And it was just, it's really tremendous watching.

Essentially, Tiki, veteran of the game, he ends up being around the sport for a long time. He's still around the sport in a managerial capacity. He's talking trash throughout the lead-up to this fight. He calls young Bob Lawler, young Robert Glenn, who's probably like 19, 20 years old at that point, 21. maybe he's going on about how he's overrated this and that he's he's going to show this young kid all this you know what's really up and then the fight lasts what i don't even it's a minute twenty nine seconds a minute 29 robbie lawler nearly beheads this man uh and also nearly punches a hole through the canvas after the man is beheaded by just trying to hit him with

these follow-up shots and then afterwards tiki is so knocked out And also he has like an axe wound of a cut on his face from what happened. And afterwards, whoever the interviewer is, I forget who it is, asked him if he takes the trash talk back, if he sort of learned his lesson, he has probably law there. And in the cage, bleeding profusely, tremendously knocked out. This man would not be interviewed now if this happened today. Tiki says, oh, no, he didn't learn. He doesn't take anything back. He just lost because of the cut.

Yeah. They stand because of the cut. It's incredible. Young Robbie Lawler is still on screen. And he has the best shit-eating smirk ever after that comment. And the whole thing is just the best theater. And I swear, if you've not seen this, or even if you have and you haven't seen it a long time,

go on YouTube and find this because it's the best. It's at the absolute best. This was my early career for Robbie Lauder representation. And I feel like we definitely need to, you know, throw in an honorable mention to Nelson Hamilton's stoppage in this. fight, which when you look at him from dying. It's an early stoppage. It was just a cut, guys. Well, when you look at referee mechanics, like how you're supposed to stop a fight and how

Nelson did stop that fight, it's pretty much an example of what not to do. The guy ended up, the guy ends up doing a somersault over the two of them. Oh my God. It was, it was, and he just wears the most hilarious expression on his face. and everything turned out okay. But the decision to go in there, like the way he did was so ill-advised and could have gotten himself killed in the process.

It was incredibly brave. Because before Rio, watched the replay of that, Robbie Lawler is trying to punch into the center of the earth. He's trying to hit Satan himself in hell with these punches that he's landing on the canvas. Like, I don't know how he didn't break his hand from this. Like, it was, it's a bad one.

I love this pick. It was my first runner-up. in the awards, because for all the reasons you said, I want to throw a shout out to Steve Berger, the Steve Burger, the Steve Burger, less because this is one of his better COs, I don't think it is, which is still a perfectly fine one,

but forgot this until we did the research. This is the first MMA fight to air on US cable TV. Best damn sports show period. UFC 37 and a half, they did the, we're going to put one fight on it, whatever the best, fight from this card is and it was this one and so

I entirely forgot that Robbie Lawler is actually one half of the first fight ever on US cable television. It feels fitting. I'm glad that it was Robbie and not like some random Jumoke in the UFC 37 days. So still doing

a UFC 290. Still doing it still doing it forever ago. On that, that graphic on the UFC 290 thing about like fighters who made their UFC debuts and what they did it and it, Robbie is the second oldest one. The only person who has been in the UFC longer, my boy, Andrea Olavski.

And the next closest person now that Robbie is gone is Jim freaking Miller, who was like six years later than Lovsky-Loller. So it is, did it forever. Do you all have any more shoutouts for the Mount Rushmore? Any honorable mentions before we move on to the next category? Yeah. I mean, how many? How much time do we got?

You can also put them in the Randallplex Award, which is coming up. And that's where I tucked a lot of other fights in the Randallplex Award one as well, because there's just so much. But there's any other fight specific, not highlight specific that you feel merits discussion now is the time. I'm just who rival these off fast. I've said it the Frank Trigg, K.O., probably the closest anybody's come to actually kill an human being.

Pretty close. like in like a real major way in a while. That one is ridiculous. Three punches before Frank Trigg hits the ground, followed by that obscene uppercut that sort of ends it. Like that's like actually should have been illegal like in life. Like Robbie Lawler should have gone to jail for that. That was insane.

The Melbourne Manhofe comeback, tremendous. Everything's already been said on that one. Josh K.O. kind of slept on. But that was absolutely savage. And that was also like an eye opener of like, oh, Robbie Lawler still got a little bit left in him. Josh Koshchek was still a guy.

He nearly murdered poor Ninja Hua in a fight that will be forever forgotten, but like, that's real brutal. What exactly title fight, baby? Yeah, man. Also, Matt Linland, Out Cold, and Scott Smith, just like a relentless assault that ends with soccer kicks to the body as Robbie Lawler's just like, basically like pulling a, what they do in office space when they're beating the fax machine up. And that one guy just like started to be able to get all this out. He's just so excited to be able to get it on. and he keeps going back for more. That's kind of like what Robbie Ball is doing to poor Scott Smith's body at that point.

So, I mean, there's a billion more, but those were my runner-ups. I'm throwing a shout to the first Rory fight, UFC 167. The fight itself isn't like super memorable, but I just remember it very well because that was when I thought that the fun resurgence was dead. Robbie comes back and you don't think he's going to beat Josh Koshchek and then he does. And you're like, okay. And then Bobby Volker is, even at the time, wasn't like the, the. best win or whatever.

Like, oh, this is kind of a fun little story, Robbie's return. And then they match him up with Rory, who, as Stephen said earlier, he's GSP's protege. He's the guy who's supposed to take the mantle at Welterway. And you're like, well, this is going to be the end of this fun little bit of resurgence from Robbie. And then he sort of grits it out, guts out a win. And you're like, oh, I'm not entirely sure he deserved to win that. But that was awesome.

And now he gets to fight for a title. What an uplifting thing. So shouts to the original Rory fight. Race the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sales. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over.

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Get started today at LinkedIn.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Roscoe Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

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This was of the many fights that there is as difficult to answer an award, the I'm not impressed by your performance award is not a hard one for me. This is for the low point, the saddest moment of the career. And for me, I went UFC 201. I went the Tyrone Woodley knockout. As Stephen said in an earlier one of these, I have a personal connection. This is the first fight I ever went to, the first UFC event I ever went to. Because first event I ever covered for MMAFighton.com, great website. You weren't there, Sheen.

We went to 2.30 something together. No, we were at the Izzy Gastilm. Yeah, Izzy Gaslum, yeah. This was me and Ariel were there. It happened in Atlanta, and the crowd was silent. You could hear a freaking pin drop when Woodley just ices him. And you know that it's a possibility, but this has been such a fun run from Robbie. the talk about

them training together and what this would happen and you're expecting at least Robbie to this is selfish to say you're expecting another fight of the year contender because that's all he's been doing

for the last three years and then it ends so abruptly so violently and such a fitting and yet depressing way for this this sort of run in this section of his career

to kind of come to an end but sitting there cage side. It was a huge bummer for me. Even as I was still like stoked because everything else was pretty cool, that was that runaway winner for me here. Absolutely. I mean, to me, that was the easy pick. And also it was kind of like, same pick? Yeah, yeah. For me at least, because it was such a bummer. It was, again, we had been on such a historic run. And then like the welterweight division, I mean, I like Tyrone Woodley as a person, but like the Tyrone with the era.

was not a memorable era for the Welterweight Division to go from GSP to Hendricks to Loller to then a few fights removed from Woodley Lawler where we're getting the Stephen Thompson rematch which is one of the worst fights of all time and then Damien Maya which is one of the worst fights of all time it's just like it was a recent division into a real malaise that it took a while to recover from

so this was my pick as well I have another fight with a personal connection the Lorenz Larkin decision loss at Strike Force Portland. And the personal connection there is that it was probably the most depressing MMA event I ever went to. It was the last...

Wow, that is a bold statement. Okay. It was one of the last under the Zufa Zufa Force era. It was after they'd purchased them. And apparently it put all the fighters in a really shitty hotel, did no promotion for the fight,

and nobody knew about it except for the hardcores on the internet. And if you're going to be Robbie Lawler and you're fighting a guy like Lorenz Larkin, you shouldn't get grinded out by Lorenz Larkin. So he lost a decision. Robbie Lawler, the ex-champ of Elite XC, gets just grinded out by Lorenz Larkin. And that's the thing that complicates all of this for me, because there was a time at which Robbie Lawler was very much a middle-of-the-road fighter. Oh, yeah, for sure.

He's cut. He looked cut. Right. And so when we're talking about I'm not impressed by your performance, there are several performances that I was not impressed by that I don't think anybody was impressed by because for a long time, it appeared like Robbie

didn't really, he wasn't really enjoying it as much as he, as he used to, and everybody knew how to fight him, which was to take him down. Or kick him in the legs a whole bunch too. Or kick him in the legs a whole bunch, right. So he was a very beatable fighter for a long time.

The fact that he had this amazing resurgence is spectacular in so many ways. but there were several things I mean he fumbled the bag so to speak several times I think he fought Jake for the Jake Shields for the title that was supposed to be a big fight for him

um no that was Jake Shields was not for the title that was his first post elite XC fight um was a main event was a main event

he's stumbled several times and looked very very beatable and the two that I just mentioned are the two that kind of come to my mind. Yeah, no, I, so I think you're a thousand percent correct. That's why I said, like, I think there are plenty of choices for the not impressed on this one with Robbie, which is different than a lot of other ones, right? Because I think as you pointed out, Stephen, he had a big middle section of his career. Basically, his entire run at middleweight is, it alternates between being incredibly dope and just awful.

There's not like a lot of middle of the road. That's a fine. It's like, it's like, Like, he lost in a boring, terrible way, or he ethered somebody in a really violent way. And that's sort of his middleweight run. And we haven't, honestly, we haven't really seen that a lot in this. Because normally it's like a very clear, oh, here's where the decline starts. And then do you want to pick this as the worst moment or five steps later down the decline? And I just went with the one that I have the personal connection to. But also, fun fact.

Well, so that's the thing too, right? Because I have the entire Strikeforce run was my pick for a different category later on. Because the delineation you can make between like the fight after Larkin was his UFC reentry against Costcheck. And that was not, that was what, like less than a year later? That was like eight months later. Like whatever happened in Strike Force, man, was just so bad. It was Robbie Lawler, looks like he was done just in the same. way that Jen's Pulver was done at that point in his career, just in the way that Tim

Sylvia was done in that point in his career, just the way that all of the guys that he came up with, all the guys from that era, were kind of done by then. And that was the stories being written about him. I remember speaking to Lorenz before that fight as a young reporter. And Lorenz just being like, yeah, Robbie's cooked, man. I'm going to win this just because that, like, that guy's a legend, but he's done. And it's just like the fact that- I love that. That guy's a legend literally a decade ago. Before the best run of his career is about to go. If Robbie retires after that fight, none of your Mount Rushmore happened. Like, none of them. And that's the crazy part to me about all of this. We talk about Bisbing and whoever,

but like what Robbie did after this hellacious strike force run, because all of it was bad. All of the strike force run was bad for the most part. Like there's maybe one or two good ones there. No, outside of a little one, there's nothing realistically. So yeah. Also, fun fact, I just pulled up this Strike Force card. I mean, the Amagaw fight was good to. The knockout. Sure. This Strike Force card, as I'm looking at it,

Strike Force Rockhold v. Kennedy, this may be one of the biggest deltas between talent versus entertainment that I can, because there are a lot of people who, certainly at the time, were relevant. Your main event, Luke Rockhold, Tim Kennedy, Nate Mark Whart kills Tyron Woodley. Ultimate second combo finish,

that Mark Whart finish. Forgot into history, but tremendous. Incredible. Hadra Gracie, Keith Jardine, were relevant fighters, even though that was not a fun fight. Lark and Lawler is an awful fight to watch. Pat Healy, Mazuto Heroda, just a lot of bad fights. Jorge Mosvodal on this card? Man, what a... That would be a very depressing event to go to, Stephen. I saw, I went back, I was at the press conference and I walked the wrong way, so I didn't walk into the press area, but I walked into the hallway outside the press conference area. And I see Scott with a page of paper like rehearsing his lines that he's supposed to say for the press conference.

And it just this whole experience. And you go there and they hand me the mic and they didn't. Nobody was asking questions. I asked almost all the questions because nobody was there and nobody was asking questions. It was just so like it was so deflating. It was such a sign of the times, you know, that basically Scott's an employee now. he's no longer running his own show. And they're putting next to zero energy into this thing.

It was just very, very depressing. And I wrote about it. And then nobody talked to me for the rest of the weekend. Well, good, good way to finish. Next award, next category. The, who the fuck is that guy award? This is for the weirdest, most surprising opponent that Robbie Lawler faced in his entire career.

This is a category of she. is historically done exceeding the well at i have uh four nominees none of them are that interesting um as like super weird guys but just there are various circumstances surrounding them that made me pick them out um i don't actually know which of these i want to go with so sheen since this is your category let's start with you who the fuck is that guy for you i feel like i'm disappointed the audience in this one because this is a weird one robbie kind of fought everyone he should have thought, like, there is not a lot here that's kind of like weird detours and side streets, even in these weird, weirder promotions that he fought in. It was like, yeah, okay, like I could see why

Robbie is fighting that man. So I don't know. I honestly, I didn't have much. I mean, I came up with Aaron Riley, who to me, just the fact that Robbie Lawler's UFC debut came against the five-foot-nine lightweight is just kind of a sign of the times and bizarre to me in retrospect. It's very much a sign of how that used to go. But I got nothing. This is, Robbie fought exactly who he should have fought for most of his career, and it kind of jabs with what you'd expect. No, I think that's really, it's true in large part, which is why all of my nominees are for something else, and we'll get into them. But Stephen, you got anything here? Yeah, I mean, I chose to make the interpretation the strangest moment of the career as opposed to who the fuck is that guy. It's a great,

great interpretation. I love that. And I think it's the one that works for Robbie because, you know, for me, the one that jumped out right away was the Nick Diaz rematch, because. Okay. To me, that fight should have never happened. Nick Diaz never should have been sanctioned to fight again. He was an absolute shell of himself. Nobody really, really needed to see this fight. It was so many years after its usable shelf life.

And this is not really Robbie's fault. Robbie is the guy who takes the fights. He's going to fight anybody. But it was just so strange and so unnecessary. and, you know, could be not impressed by your performance for a different reason, because it was just so sad and so depressing, at least to me. Because that first fight was pretty iconic. It's kind of a part of early MMA internet lore underground kind of era to me.

And to see that, like so many years later when one guy is clearly compromised and shouldn't even be in the cage was the WTF moment for me. I think that's a really good one And I'm glad you brought it up Because otherwise I would not have talked about that fight Because it's just a sad one And I don't want to talk about the sad things But well you never have to you know

Be disappointed That's what I'm here for but I know you're gonna You're gonna level us right back off And that is an important thing to have in these celebratory pods So I got four of them for you And I'll start with the one that I think I would ultimately choose And you you sort of mentioned him earlier, but as I think back, if you're just asking me to like,

as how I largely kind of look at this one, hey, who did Robbie Lawler fight? Adlin Amagov is the one that jumps out to me as like, who, why, what the hell was this about? Even though you go back and you see that it sort of makes sense, but for where he was at the time, but. Amigov was awesome. Yeah, he was awesome. He should have been a real dude and then it just never happened. Well, it didn't happen because he like became a gangster in Russia.

Yeah, which is also the super weird part of him fighting him now is like Amogov just sort of stopped fighting to go be a Russian gangster. To go kill people. So like when I say he's awesome, I mean, within the context of watching him fight. He was very fun, yes. I get what you're saying. You're not making a statement about the man's personality. But it's super weird to be like, why did he fight this dude?

Oh, this guy's record is good. What happened? Oh, he stabbed a 19 year old in the chest and is accused of murder. in Russia, but like, that's pretty tough. Very odd and a very weird one. The other ones I have, quick shout out to Jeremy Brown, notable because he's the only man Robbie Lawler ever submitted in his whole career. I couldn't find video of this on the internet,

but I would love to watch Robbie Lawler Arm Bar this man. If somebody has the video, please tag me because I just got to see what that looks like. The only submission of Lawler's career in King of the Cage. The other two I have. The first one, Marco Massara. So you might ask me, why do you care about Marco Massara? Extreme Challenge 41, third fight of his career. It has nothing to do with his opponent.

This fight is up on YouTube, and I would strongly encourage anyone to go watch it. It's not a great fight, but Robbie Lawler is rocking some frosted tips, and it is the funniest thing I've ever seen, because it's not like actual frosted tips. it almost looks like Josh Koshchek's hair when it was like really bad frosted only it's 19 year old Robbie Lawler and it's hilarious

and then the fight gets stopped sort of just because Massera keeps butt scooting because he doesn't want a fist fight Robbie Lawler oh did you just go pull it up oh my God what the best? What the fuck

I after seeing that I was like I have to go through and see like did he have this and I just don't remember it in his early UFC career, and it just appeared to be for this fight. Frosted Robbie Lawler is a sight to behold. You could not have more frosted tips. Like, those are the most frosted tips that have ever been frosted. That is incredible.

So I just wanted to bring that up in case nobody knew that that was 19-year-old Robert Lawler was feeling that style. And the last one I have is Pete Spratt. And it's not for Pete's Brad. It's just because this fight is insane if you go back and watch it because they let Phil Barone be the color commentator with Joe Rogan. There's no Goldie, no. It's Rogan is the play-by-play guy, and Barone is the color guy,

and Barone is a pretty bad person for a lot of things we don't need to get into. But I pulled three specific quotes from this fight that he is commentating on, and he looks at Robbie Law. was like he looks like some kind of death machine out there, which is just the thing that he says on the broadcast. After Robbie Lawler gets hit low, he goes, if it was me, I'd go out there and I'd knee spraten in the groin right now, just thing.

And then the other one is Joe Rogan is doing his job. And he's like, hey, this is when they were trying to do the, like, UFC.tv and you can score the fight at home. And Rogan, like, does the read to say, you can score along with the fight at home. And Barone goes, if you're scoring this fight at home, you've got problems. Just watch the fight, internet geeks. It's like, I can't believe they didn't let Phil Barone be the color guy after this event.

They just, just like, no, we're good. We're good with this. In my head, I totally forgot that that ever happened. And it was Barone, Rogan, and I think Eddie Bravo was like the guy that they brought in occasionally. So what an insane moment in MMA history is. really the point of that one. Next category. We're back to the really good ones for Robbie.

It's the Randolplex Award, the best single highlight of the career. And again, we could have done a Mel Rushmore on this one. There are so many. We were talking about it off here. Shaheen, you said that this was maybe your most difficult category. For me, this was actually incredibly easy. I have a number of honorable mentions, but I think one of them is the most obvious and so I'm just going to lead off and say it

because I think when you hear it, you'll say yes. It's not a fight. It's not a highlight. It's as Stephen said earlier. It's the stare down. It is him with the busted lip staring down Rory McDonald. If you knew nothing about Robbie Lawler and I just showed you that image, that clip,

you would know everything about Robbie Lawler. To me, it is the definitive highlight of this man's career. And it is so incredible that in a career defined by knockouts and fight of the years in violence. The single best highlighter clip is him just looking at a dude. Like just looking through a dude and inviting it all. And to me, I think it runs away with this award. And we can talk about all the other ones because there are a lot of other dope things to

talk about. But that one was, it was one of the easiest picks for me. That's a great shout. That's a great show. I mean, you're correct. Like, this was one of the hardest categories of any of these that we've done for any for me, just because there's so much, like, what do you, how do you choose one?

I don't know that Robbie has a signature violence highlight because there are just, there's an overwhelming number. I think you're right. I mean, you nailed it. It's the stare down. That was my Twitter header, banner for, like, my entire career and so randomly earlier this year, Twitter decided it was too violent and, like,

banned by account until I took it off. Wow. That speaks wrong. That says everything. Like, it's just that, you're right. What you said, if you know nothing about Robbie, and then you see that clip, you know everything about Robbie. everything about them. That's it.

Stephen, you're nodding along. Are you an agreement? I mean, yeah. I mean, for me, I have no issue with that. I assumed that these moments, like the stare down and stuff like that would that would occupy the majority of top picks, like because it does so many things. It serves so many purposes. It's a highlight. It's a, it's a moment. It's a rushmore. But in watching all of these, you know, career highlights, of his, I did come across a moment that I remember being incredibly tickled by it in the moment, but had forgotten about. And that's when he completely obliterates Matt Linland and then gently lays his feet on the canvas, as if settling a man's dead bones into a coffin before the

nails go in. Like, it was such a sweetheart that Robbie Luller. Dude, it's the nicest guy ever after It was just so, it's just such this insane clash of extreme brutality and violence and politeness. I love that. I love that. That's on my thing, on my list of them. This is where I also had the Manhuff, K.O. I was on my short list here, which we talked about. I mean, the out of nowhere nature there is just unbelievable.

And we, we, I think we should just, I just want to make it clear. He did the Matt Lindland and the manho of KOs both in 2010, right? Yes, I am correct in that. They were both in 2010. I went back and looked at M.A. fighting. We weren't really doing K.O. of the year as an award in that way. It was just like, here's a list of the best ones. Both of those are obviously in there.

And frankly, I think that there's a very good argument that either of those could just be the knockout in the year in 2010. if we they would both certainly be in the top five if we were doing lists like we did like we do now at the time uh and just unbelievable i love both of those chaos so much i also have my number one honorable mention though was as you said jeanne i mean it's frank trig if if there is one individual fight knockout or highlight it is to me that's roby luller it's frank trig because that i mean he trig's out trick is out out against the ropes before he slumps over and then he does and just the one little extra that's like

the uprocut. It's like the hindo shot. It's like the hindo punching punch on Bisping only it's vertical and it is awful and incredible. Like if you just, if you have to pick a fight highlight, that's the one fight highlight highlight for me. And that's the sneaky thing about that fight is like they are beyond exhausted before that. highlight. Like, they're barely standing. Frank Trigg especially.

So again, I reiterate, we are all very lucky that Frank Trigg is still here with us today because that was the perfect circumstances for someone to actually die in the ring in that situation because he's so exhausted and then get such immense amounts of brain damage. That was actually my pick for the highlight until I sort of defaulted back to like, well, it actually probably is Nico Price. And that was where I ended up. I mean, that's also, look, I'm never going to be. upset about the Nico Price because I'm probably

going to watch that one as much or more than any other ones just in future years. Frank Trick, by the way, alive, not only alive, but also doing a great co-star on Barry on the most recent season of Barry. Oh, I have not...

I just marathon through Barry. Frank Trick was on that last season? Yeah, he was one of the heavies. Oh, that's fun. For like NoHo Hank's gang? No. Who? My memory. But yeah, he's, he's a part of the heavies that is in that big house.

They take over that house. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. By the way, Barry. Tremendous show. Great show. I slept on Barry its entire lifeline, except I caught it at the very, very end.

30 minute episodes, easy to breeze through. Great show. super underrated and on that note good to know i will also throw a shout out to the joey vsonior uh ko rabbi's great one i think i'm pretty sure is one fight and pride um flying knee which is dope and one of the fastest chaos of his career not like the purest thing that some of these other ones are but again there's just an embarrassment of riches when it comes to highlights from from robert glen lull there next category not this one tougher for me is the Fador's Sweater of Absolute Victory Award.

If you could have one piece of memorabilia from Robbie Lawler's career, what is it? And I'm going to go with a lame answer here. It's the same answer I gave for the Carlos Condit won. I just won a photo of the two of them hanging off the cage at the end of it. It is my favorite moment in the history of this sport. That image of them just too exhausted to raise their hands and pretend that they are the winner to do anything other than just sit and their arms are on the cage. are standing next to each other,

give me a signed photo of that and bury it in me within my grave when I go. That's the only piece of memorabilia I need from Robbie's career. Nah, give me the lip. Give me his lip. You just want his lip? I want the lip that disassociated from his body. That's what I want.

In a glass cube that I could just look at. I second that. I've got nothing better than that. That's amazing. That's a great. Honestly, the stitches that held the lip together. The lip is a great answer. I didn't even think of that.

That's such a good answer. Jesus. Next category. New one. Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery award. This is for the best quote from the fighter or about the fighter. I've got two nominees. If you guys have more, please feel free.

One of them, we sort of talked about this moment. It's the Nick Diaz rematch. And it's a quote from Robbie, and it really sums up a lot about Robbie that I love. And it's him going up to Nick after it. And you kind of laid the groundwork for this already, Stephen, of that being a tough fight that shouldn't have ever happened. And he just asked Nick after beating the brakes off him, are you good, like, in life? And it's just like, it's a very quiet moment, not meant for the cameras or anything, just seeing if Nick is doing okay. And a guy who he shares like some important history with and is a legend of the game, like, hey, man, are you, why are you doing this?

And are you going to be okay? Do you need some help? And I think that that is, that's the happiest. And it's not happy, but that's like the best quote by or about Robbie. But I also have the second one, which is certainly the one that I'm the happiest about. And it really resonates with me still to this day. And he's the champion. And it's ahead of the Woodley fight.

and he's doing some interviews. This is the one. I mean, this is the winner. We're all on this. Yes. We're all on this. Yeah.

Honestly, I thought we'd all be in this one. He's doing an interview and somebody asked him about Conner McGregor who's pop off. Local news guy asked him about Connembrigger. Yeah. Like, hey. And he's like,

do you want to, what, do you want to fight him, whatever? Hold on. I got the whole, I got the whole thing right down here. You have the whole exchange.

I just, I just have the moneymaker. So if you've got the whole exchange, fire away. Tyron Woodley is sitting here this whole time. Just sitting there. So Robbie, obviously, or so he's asking, asked him about Connor having spouted off all this nonsense about one in the Walterweight title. Robbie, obviously that was a big fight.

He's a big draw, but it wouldn't have been good for him. Then there's like silence. And then the reporter's like, oh, how so? And then Robbie without missing a beat. Because if I heard him, I wasn't taking his neck. More silence. What were you going to take? His soul.

just fucking perfect God, that's so good fucking perfect and that's why I love it. And the guy fucking gave him what he needed and then he just smashed that shit 600 fucking yards like Shohei Otani. Like that was ridiculous how well that played.

But the thing that I love it is local news guy. Like oh yeah, what we're going to take from him? The local news guy, he's not a part of this world. Like he doesn't know what the setups are. He's just sort of like doing his journalist-journally thing, you know? Hey, what's no idea what's coming? What were you going to do with his soul? Or what were you going to do with it?

Yeah. It was, yeah. I knew that that would be the obvious one. I did want to give the shout up to the Nick Diaz because I think those show the two sides of Robbie Lawler just incredibly perfectly encapsulated of being the most violent man ever and also just like, just a sweetheart. And it's so understated. He's just so understated when he says it.

It's just, it's barely above a whisper. He looks dead serious in the eyes. Just the timing on it, setting it up with, that's not what I would take for the guy to be like, oh, what would you take? Like, all of it is just, it's well, it is well written from Robert Lawler, certainly. It's the most, it's the coldest line drops in the history of interviews. Yeah, and it's like the one time he talks like he fights, you know what I mean? because he's Yeah, that's a really good way to put it.

Yeah, because you know, because one of the things I actually put in this section was, um, when we talk about like Robbie Loller quotes, there ain't much to work with. This is the complete opposite problem. This is not an embarrassment of riches. This is the guy who spent every single interview of his life

saying he wasn't worried about things or he wasn't concerned about things. That's all he said. Like, at a certain point, you know, having interviewed him a bunch of times, I was thinking about kind of trolling him and just asking him entirely like what he was worried about because I thought maybe I'd break that. I'd break that pattern and he'd go somewhere different. But it's like he grew up being interviewed by the MMA media. So like that'll that'll stunt anyone's verbal growth, you know. incredible shot fired by Stephen Neffrey. It's not wrong.

Not wrong at all, just incredible. And so he kind of like shuts things down with these, you know, these sims, these, you know, not worried, not concerned, not thinking about it. And in that one moment, he actually, you know, fought, like sounded cold. Like he was like a killer. Like normally he was a really nice, unassuming guy. But in that moment, he was exactly. who he was in the in the cage.

Yeah, that is a, that's a really good way to frame it, and I had never considered that. Next category. One last one just to add on, because to me, the essence of it is pure Robbie. I want to shout out, just because it's always held true to, it has a place of my heart. The post-fight quote after the Royal McDonald rematch, where Robbie, the first question, Joe asked him about whatever, I don't know, did you prove yourself something? I don't know what the question was, but he says, with his split, lip just wide open, spittle just like flying out of his mouth, fucking blood just everywhere's

flying out of his mouth. I showed everyone that I'm a true fighter. I come to fight no matter what happens. I keep coming. I come to knock people out. And just the way he was how fired up it was and just living in the moment. Like that was that that always stuck with me. That's a good one. And I already said it earlier, but I love that I feel fucking great. Before that fifth round, that would have been here, but for the other one. So next category. And we're not going to stay long on this one, because I'm probably going to remove this in future episodes just in general, because I don't love the category. International player haters, Paul, we're going to nitpick the fighter, but I'll have to hear

very specifically, because I have one nitpick that just feels like I want it to be mentioned. It's the back tattoo, the unfinished back tattoo that Bobby Lawler has. If I have one issue at all with his career, and you guys can talk all about the Strike Force run, fine to let you cook in that regard. the back tattoo that just peaks up over the shorts, don't even know what it is. If I could change one thing about Robbie's career, it would be that. We would finish that or remove it,

but we wouldn't let it exist how it does. Stephen, Sean, what do you guys have here if you have anything that feels necessary to get out on the negative side of Robbie Lawler? I mean, I think we've already kind of said it. I think that there were just times at which it feels like he wasn't really trying very hard. There are times at which it was kind of like the sort of stubbornness that defined,

like in a way, like, you know, Nick Diaz's thing about always, you know, complaining about Nate Diaz and Nick Nez, complaining about being stuffed against the cage. We'll do something about it. And it felt like at times he just wasn't going to fight if he didn't get the fight that he wanted, you know, and he was going to allow himself to be smothered and ground out. I know that's not the case. I know he probably wanted to get up. but also it just felt like

there were times at which it felt like he wasn't bringing all of his talents to the cage and when he did I think that's a large reason why he had the results that he did because he does have takedown defense he can keep fights on the feet he can he's a very well-rounded fighter he just has lunchboxes for fists so he is a guy that

you know was championship material from the beginning but it just makes those other moments so much more disappointing because you see him have all these amazing moments in his career and then just so many that are just so lackluster and it's, you know, it's a shame. I think that that's very obvious and just a good critique of his career and one that Robbie probably even would ultimately agree with, right? Like when he got fully engaged,

that's sort of the defining trait of that late career run that became this thing was like, oh, look at him, Matt wrestling, like, and not just getting ground out and doing all these things. So I'm with you. I understand. Shaheen, anything from you here. No, I mean, I just had the whole strike force run. And we've already talked about it at length, so we don't need to get into it. But it's just, again, if you would have put a gun to my head and say, hey, man, you've got to put your life savings on. Is this man going to be retired in the next five years or going to be a UFC champion in the next five years? I would have gotten one win. Oh, yeah.

would have been super wrong on that one. So I would have been right there with you. Like, yeah, he's done. We're finished. He was, like, not that far off from where Kevin Lee is right now. And then he insanely turned it around to have the best run of his career. That's a great comparison. He wasn't, like, getting knocked out in the way that Kevin is, but that's a great comparison.

That's sort of where it felt like we're at. The age is all, like, very similar, very odd. I mean, or like if Rory, if Rory right now was like, I unretired. and now I'm going to put this great run together. It'd be insane. The TJ Grant, alternate universe award. What's the biggest what if? Sliding Doors moment of the career.

I only have one for Robbie. And I'm not sure I even really care that much about it. But if I'm looking back to like with a what if for Robbie, it is, what if he hadn't sort of left the UFC? What if instead of, you know, after the Evan Tanner loss, he moves up to middleweight and sort of then drops out. out, what does that look like if he's in the UFC and those, the UFC 60? I mean, frankly, in the UFC, right as the UFC becomes big, becomes a household name,

because 04 is when he exits, Ultimate Fighter is 05, and that's when it becomes this thing. And Robbie doesn't come back until, what did I say in that earlier? 2013. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, Robbie is the hardcore fans delight during all of this time, even while he's doing the Strike Force run. but what if instead he's just sort of still a very young man at that point as the UFC is

is becoming this thing what does that look like and how does he end up winning the title i have no idea how any of this works but that's sort of the one that i think to me had the most fertile ground for what ifs but uh what about y'all any any big thoughts here i'm a bit surprised actually to hear you say that because to me there's one very very obvious one very obvious I would have loved to known, seen it play out. Just the way we think about him, I think would have been a little different. I would have just love to have the answer. What if George St. Pierre doesn't retire?

Oh, that's a fun way. Okay. Dude, George St. Pierre fights Johnny Hendricks on whatever card that was. I'm going to look. It's probably a lot sad. We probably don't get the fun Robbie one if that happens. George St. Pierre fights Johnny Hendricks on UFC 167. That same card, Robbie Lawler, defeats Roy and McDonald to become the number one contender.

Robbie Lawler was the number one contender when George St. Pierre retires. They're probably going to do the Hendricks rematch because that was such a robbery. That's one of the biggest robberies in the history of the sport. But if GSP is just GSP and he beats Johnny Hendricks again, Robbie Lawler is the next in line. Like, Robbie Lawler has the chance to be the guy to end this mythical era of George St. Pierre. Robbie Lather, pure in his prime, just savagery, coming in there against George St. Pierre.

I mean, George probably wins, but maybe not, man. Like, we've seen Robbie, at that point as queer, go to the depths within, like, himself and reach places that we don't ever really see normal, ordinary humans reach. Like, maybe he would have pulled something out against George St. Pierre, especially at George St. Pierre, who was kind of done with it, who was kind of just over the whole thing. Like, maybe that's the transition of the guard that we would have seen.

and I think we already could revere Robbie in the way we sort of see his career, but that adds that extra oomph to make him, I think, like an all-timer. If he's the dude that beat GSP, like that opportunity was right there if George just does another year. That's a very good one.

Wasn't even on my list, though that is in the next award for me. GSP is one of the big fights. But great, I mean, it's a great shout. What about you, Stephen? I put, what if he knocks out Tyron Woodley at UFC 201? one and he's the one having the confrontation with Cona McGregor at UFC 205.

Oh, God, that would be great. What if he's actually taking Connor McGregor's soul? Yeah. I think a thousand percent that's what that fight happens if that's the world we're living in. Because Tyrone wasn't getting that fight, right? Time was never getting that fight. Exactly. So Robbie is more of a company man.

Maybe he gets that fight. Plus, I think you're saying in place to the Alvarez fight? No, post-alver. After Alvarez beats wins at 205, or after Connor beats Eddie at 205. But then he would always done the Mayweather thing, right? I mean, the Mayweather thing. Well, we're in a different multiverse here. Also, I don't know.

Yeah. The Mayweather thing didn't have the heat yet. That didn't start really building until a few months later. So if immediately Connor wins the lightweight belt, now the welterweight champion is at least the dude that Connor probably feels he has a better chance to beat than Tyron, because Connor had a 0% chance to be Tyron, frankly. They've got some heat at the thing. Maybe the UFC just pushes that hard.

Maybe the Mayweather thing doesn't happen until later because now he can be the first triple champ in UFC history. And then the Mayweather fights even bigger. I could absolutely see that being a fight the UFC would have gotten behind in a much more real way than they did for Tyron. I mean, that's a good one. I like that one a lot. That's a really good one.

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We're stepping all over on this one. So we'll roll right into the Habib Tony Award for Fight that Never Happened, but you wanted to see. Shaheen, you have got one of my two. I have an A and a B here that are equal levels. The GSP won for all the reasons. reasons you mentioned, kind of what I would love to see that have unfolded in that manner. And it feels odd that they didn't, given sort of their timelines and their careers and what they

meant. But the one that I want probably a little bit more, even though with hindsight, probably wouldn't have delivered or been what we hope for, the Condit rematch. I thought Robbie didn't deserve to win that fight. I thought that they should run that fight immediately back again. I mean, certainly nowadays you see the UFC immediately striking on when the iron's hot for a fight of the years like this. They weren't super invested in Tyrone Woodley getting a title shot either. So always was a bit odd that they didn't immediately run this one back. And that's, I wish that that had been the fight we had gotten at some point. If it hadn't been immediately, even if it was just later career, run that back.

That fight I wanted. I wanted more. I got 25 minutes and I wanted more. Stephen, what about you? What other fights did you wish you had seen? I'm actually going to go contrarian and say I would have not wanted to see the GSP fight. Oh, okay. Because I think GSP would have grinded him out and it would have been a very boring fight.

I think GSP would have come, GSP in his prime would have come very prepared for what Robbie Luller had to offer at that point in his career and where he was at. And I think it wouldn't have, I mean, maybe later in his career, maybe in this point in this sweet spot where he had. had where he's the champion. But it's not, first of all, first of all, you know what GSP is going to do during that fight. And it's not going to be very exciting. It's not going to be a Robbie Luller fight as we know it. It's going to be a lot of, you know, take downs and ground and pound.

And it's going to be, GSP is going to play that so freaking safe because he knows exactly what can happen to him. So my choice was actually a prime GSP title shot. era Tiago Alves. Like before. That would have been good. That's a fight. Tiago Alves fought GSP and he was destroying everyone.

He was just this wreck. I thought that would have been a really good fight. That's a really fun fight. That's a good fight. I mean, I think that they've had some damn good spars at the ATT mats back when when Robbie was there. I bet they were getting after it. That was fun.

Maybe. I think Tiago was a little late in his career at that point. but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. No, he was, but he, didn't he, I mean, I don't know if he still, he was, he was coaching there for a while as a, as a striking coach. So yeah, I assume that there was enough overlap between those two and that. Anyway, great, great fight. That's a really good one. I still push back on the GSP thing because I, I don't think you said, I agree, Prime GSP, I don't think that's as fun of a fight.

The GSP we would have gotten if that fight had happened is not Prime GSP. that is exhausted GSP, that is mentally done GSP, that is GSP that just got the shit beaten out of him by Johnny Hendris. It was a better version. I mean, and Robbie was a better version of Johnny Hendricks at that point. I think that's a fascinating matchup between that stage of a GSP and Robbie really just coming into his ferocious prime because just the historical ramifications of if Robbie had come out there

and been the dude who ends GSP, like that, We talk about him on a vastly different level than we already do at that point. I can see both arguments because I can also see GSP coming into a Robbie Lawler fight much more focused than Johnny Hendricks. No disrespect to Johnny Hendricks. But I mean, at that point, certainly looking back to the career, you're like, all right, GSP's been doing this for a while. Johnny Hendricks is sort of a new, he's in a new generation.

And it's very tough to keep fighting new generation to talk about all the time. but I could see him looking at Robbie Lawler as a man of his generation because they were and being like, all right, I have to win this one because this one, I got to, I can't let this guy who I grew up along with beat me here. I've got to get this one down. I could see it both ways, but Shane, do you have any other fights that you would have liked to see from, other than all the fights? Because obviously you put Robbie in with anybody, it's going to be a good time, but any other specific ones that jump out here. No, I mean, the GSP one was my big one.

I love the Alves shout. Alves is such a good. I would have never thought. And I would have a damn good one. And also, the Connor one just would have been real fun for me. I want to really enjoy that watching that. Connor would have been absolutely delightful. The Dan Henderson H-Bomb Award is if you could take one piece of the fighter's game to build a fighter or to add it to your own fighting game.

you could do such a thing, what would it be? I have one answer. I will accept others if you make a compelling argument. But we have danced around this. It has been mentioned in passing several times. I didn't realize this. As I was looking at his career sort of big picture until I got into it, I don't know if he's the best at it in history,

and I don't need to have the argument. But there aren't a lot of dudes who throw a kill shot better than Robbie Lawler. Robbie Lawler's finishing coffin nail punches are, I believe you said sheen in an excellent way to describe it, look like he is trying to punch the devil himself in the center of the earth. Every one of his coffin nails, Tiki Goshen, Frank Trig won, any of those follow-up shots are halacious. That's all I need from Robbie's game. Take the rest of it. You can put it all down there, but, whew,

He knows how to bury, bury a man who's on the edge. I went in the same route as you, maybe a different direction. It said his savagery, just his meanness, which is what that is, which is exactly what you were talking about. It's just give me that. If you can inject his savagery, the way he looks at this, the way he approaches this, just how mean that man can be. And you inject it into somebody like a GSP or somebody like, you know,

any of these legends that we talk about, like, what are we talking about then at that point? Like, what does that even look like? Like, that is superhuman levels of mean that that man can reach. That's a great answer. Stephen. Nothing to add. I mean, I think those are both perfectly great answers.

I think what I had is just natural power. It can't be taught. It's God-given. I mean, it can be improved on, but the guy just had God-given power. You know, he had some great, he had great genetics and a variety. of areas. Power and longevity, I think he was built differently. He was built to fight and built to fight for a long time. And he just got that gift, you know, that one hitter, quitter, you know, and one of the best of doing it. Well, speaking of built, built a fight. Can you imagine, can you imagine

Demetri's Johnson with Robbie Lawler savagery? I mean, I think that's Davis, Davis and Figurato, like, as close as we can. No. Well, I mean, like, so. I know, I get your idea. Yeah, yeah. It would have been tough for a lot of people if you objected that into DJ. I don't think Joseph Benavitas would be around anymore. Or John Jones with that level of meanness. John Jones is pretty mean. John Jones is a pretty mean bastard. But he became safe.

You know exactly what I mean. I mean, he definitely still became safe to be that guy. John Jones is, I mean, is really mean. I say this a lot. I think meanness is the most underrated quality in a fighter. Like if you're looking at a top prospect, if you find the dude who wants to hurt somebody, not because they're like broken inside,

but like just who they are when the fight goes like Ravi is, that's the real top prospect, because you've got to have that edge to you. John had it. John has maybe doesn't have it now, but definitely had it for a part. But you lead us right into the next category very well. I'll hear Stephen when you say that man was built to fight,

because I have no idea the answer for this one. The Cole Conrad Career Change Award, what would Robbie Lolle be doing if you weren't a fighter? Occasionally I've had struggles here because some guys feel it's just hard to piece them down. And Robbie Loller, I think, is the most difficult one for me to imagine doing anything else. Because he started this when he was 17 or whatever

and feels like him and Vanderlea Silva or maybe the two guys who the most feel like This is just who they were destined to be. If you took them back in time, they'd be wielding battle axes and, you know, doing that whole thing. So I don't have a good answer here. Do either of you have an alternate career path for Robert Glenn Lawler? I'm so glad you said what you said, because I felt like I was about to cop out by saying, dude, there's nothing. Dude, no, there's no actual answer.

I sat there and thought about this for an inordinately long amount of time and it just, I came up with nothing. because genuinely he has as much of a fighter as has ever been born, like in the history of humanity. And I don't know what the fuck he would do if he wasn't doing this. Like the best I can come up with is just like, I don't know, because he's so mild-mannered the rest of the time that like he'd probably just be like an actuary or something. Like some just sell insurance. But even that just doesn't feel, I can't picture him behind the desk. Like it's just not, I can't compute it. Steven save us.

Getting some TPS reports done while Sharon bugs him about his headings or something. Come on. I can't picture it. Steven Save us. Well, my pedestrian answers are, you know, a farmer or an operator of heavy machinery.

That's probably, that's okay. I can kind of see him. I can see him work in some heavy machinery. Guy grew up in Bettendorf, you know? I mean, that's probably the path that he walks.

On a more fun, not serious tip, I wrote life. coach where he teaches people not to worry about things. That's a great answer. Because clearly he's got that down. He's clearly not worried about the future or what worried about my, what worried about, he's not worried about what could happen.

He's not concerned about the future. He lives in the present. Those are very good skills for a life coach. It's what half of, you know, most people who are trying to better themselves are trying to live more in the present. So Robbie Loller is your guy. That's a fantastic answer. even. I love that answer.

Perhaps a sleep specialist as well, you know? If you're having trouble sleeping, you go to this man, he's going to help you out. He can absolutely put you down. Yes. An anesthesiologist? Is that worth of thinking? Robin Loller, the anesthesiologist? Look, we need this guy out for 20 minutes to do this quick surgery.

Can you help us out, Robbie? I got this. Spink. Just a couple of categories left now. The Sean Ferris Award for actor who should play them in a movie. I had a good one for this one. I feel very happy about this one. I was trying to think if I've used him before, and I'm not sure, but maybe I have.

As I was scrolling through photos, I've started on a young Billy Zane to be my Robbie Lawler. I think he can sort of match all of the look and has a little bit of, I mean, he's got depth, emotional depths to cover both sides of Robbie Lawler. But he's got, I think Billy Zane can have the menace when needed to be, to have those specific moments in Lawler's career. Do you guys have anything for this one? John? I got nothing, man. Robbie's so unique. I think the Billy Zane shout, that's a good one.

This is tough for me. I genuinely, I tried for a while to search for, because he's got such a unique look too, right? Like, he's tough to pull off. There's just not an actor who looks like a fighter in the way that Robbie looks like a fighter. Like, you, I could show you Robbie's photo at any point in his life and you would know. If I was like, what do you think this dude does? You'd have a pretty good idea.

Yeah, you can see it. it's there. I just pulled the photo of him. I pulled one out of my my butt anyways. It was a very, it's a very deep cut, Dante Basco

in his 30s. Who is Dante Basco, you might ask. He is the guy. Yeah. Oh. That's what's a great call. Yeah.

They share Filipino heritage. This is the best. He was in the perfect weapon. So he's got some martial. arts street credit as far as I'm concerned. I was a big fan of perfect weapon. Is he not also like a martial artist? I feel like he is to something. He does do martial arts. I'm almost positive. He's a martial artist. I am extremely positive of that, but I can't confirm it. Oh, I love this. This is a really good one. Young Dante Basco never would have pulled this in a million years.

It took considerable research. Let me tell you. No, that one is not easy. It is not, it's not like, oh, yeah, you know, just just put in, you know, insert X, X movie star. You know, it's a show and it's always the hardest. It's always a really difficult one. And no, that's a great one. We have one final category before we close this down. It is the, look at me now.

Leon Edwards Award for the best moment of their career. And I think you can have a whole number of them here for Robbie Lawlers. I wouldn't be frankly mad about about Nico Price again getting love here. For me, I settled on, and I don't feel good about it, so you can talk me off this one into something else. I settled on Carlos Condit at UFC 195. That's the end of that terrific run. For me, said before, it's the best fight ever. And so if you win the best fight ever, I think that that just sort of has to be the peak of your career.

And that's where I settled. But again, I don't feel great. I think there are a number of arguments to you made here. So, Jeanne, make a compelling case. I mean, I had the exact same logic, which led me to a different answer. If you win the best fight ever, it should probably be you winning the best fight ever. So, you know, I had the Robbie Law. rematch. That to me, when I think back, the Roy McDonald rematch. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. A lot of

ours, our names in this one. That to me, when I look back on Robbie Lawler's career, 20 years from now, that will feel like the biggest, that will feel like the apex. That will feel like when everything was at its sweet spot. Just because that was such a big event, that was Conner's coronation, that's still in my mind, the greatest pay-per-view of all time. And it's the greatest fight of all time. that moment, it solidified a legacy element for Robbie that had not yet been there where, like, sure, he won the title and everyone was really happy. He won the title against Hendrix. The McDonald one was like, okay, like, this is, you did it, Robbie. Like, you really did it in a way that no one really thought you would ever do it. And so that to me, like, that's always going to be the one that sticks with me the most. And then the Condit almost felt like post-script in a weird way in my mind. So I- The dessert to the main course. I can, look, I can buy that argument entirely. Stephen, you're nodding a lot. Are you, are you with, with Shaheen on this? Yeah, I put 189. 189 is just such a significant seismic event in the history of things. It's hard to, it's hard to give any other answer.

To me, that was another one that I, uh, I, I just thought the people talk about 290 being the best. Uh, I think there's a lot of recency bias, recent. Recy bias with that. Oh, for sure. 189 supersedes that. Because you had Connor, you know, bringing this whole legion of fans. That was his first pay-per-view headliner.

The finishes on the main car, they were all better. They were pound for pound better. And then just that fight being the co-main event. I mean, it was just a fantastic night. And probably one of the nights that got them there

to that 4.02 billion valuation. You know, that's one of those nights where it really put a lot of money in the coffers and help them by the super yachts that they're riding right now. So, uh, yeah, that event, I love the enjoyment in your voices. You say that sentence.

It's just a deep sigh halfway through. If you're picking one event, I think that is definitely the event that gets the $4 billion valuation is just that one. So I, again, I can't argue with you guys on this. And we're coming up on the two-hour mark. We're going to somehow get this done in under two, which is a testament to ourselves, frankly,

because it could have done this forever. But we're here. We're ready to close it down. We're here to talk legacy, the final category, as it were. Let's put a bow on Robbie Lawler's career. Anything that you have to get off your chest that we didn't talk about previously,

speak now or wait for a year and a half when we do the re-lawler. So, Stephen, let's start with you. What does Robbie Lawler mean to you? What's the legacy of Bobby Lawler? What does he mean to me? I mean, he is guaranteed entertainment. He's one of those rare feel-good stories in the fight game.

And obviously that got sealed even more with what happened at 290. But even before that, I think he was kind of in that category to me, Bisbing, Tate, the people who have really been down. in the trenches and been the OGs of this sport, finally getting the shine that they deserve on the biggest stage possible. That's part of Robbie's legacy to me. And the retirement is just sort of a cherry on top.

I put in my notes when Hodor becomes a human at Game of Thrones. Suddenly he's revealed, this big oaf is revealed as a human being with emotions and we celebrate it as he walks away forever. Just great stuff. And yeah, he's the guy who, you know, who, who just is the living embodiment of a tough guy, basically. I love the hodor analogy.

God, to be honest, you didn't see that one coming. Did not have that on my bingo card. It fits. I love that. I love any time that something out of the ordinary happens. And Stephen, you brought some heat today with several things I never would have thought. Shaheen, what about you? It's closed down Robbie Lawler. I mean, I don't want to repeat myself on various things I've said on this show and other shows that we've done over the last two weeks. So I'll keep mine short and simple. I mean, to me, he is the last of the Mohicans, right? He walked out to that song for his retirement song.

Fantastic choice, by the way. Tremendous. Dude has always low-key been like just a banger after banger chooser of walkout music. Hold on, I'm coming. It was so good for that title run. But to walk out to last the Mohicans theme for that retirement fight felt incredibly fitting. And that's who this man was, right? Like he is someone who represents in time and an era and a place that is never coming back.

That was singular unto itself and that if you were there for part, you were there for part, you're of it, you will never forget it. And that to me is like always what will make these type of figures that we do the show about and this sport in particular are just so special. It's because you can't say that about basketball. For instance, I love basketball. Phoenix Suns are my life. But I have no connection to the Phoenix Suns that feels similar to the way I feel about some of these older fighters, the guys who are around for the No Holtz bars day, the Bettendorf boys, all of the The lore and the legacy of this sport, still in its infancy, in the people who helped make it to where it is today, to where now, as Stephen said, the super yachts are having a great time

out there on the oceans. Like this is just, none of this would be possible without Robbie Lawler. He is a legend unto himself. He is one of one. Won't go into it more than that. Most violent guy I've ever seen peer fighter through and through. And someone who's very special to me and my fandom. For me, I've thought a lot about kind of how to close this podcast down over the past week.

And I sort of settled that something you kind of alluded to at the very top of this. And it's, we've talked a ton about what Robbie means and all that stuff. We don't have to rehash any of that. But I didn't anticipate this retirement sort of registering in the same way with me that it has. And in the way that Robbie Lawler is kind of making me reevaluer. evaluate some real fundamental beliefs I have about fist fighting in that I said it immediately after 290 and I keep thinking about it now because I don't have the answers. But what does it mean to be great in this sport in particular? Because in other sports, they're sports, but this is

entertainment. They are intrinsically tied together as part and parcel of the same thing. It's not purely an athletic endeavor here. And I don't think anybody is going to say that Robbie Lawler is one of the 10 best fighters of all time. And I understand that. And I'm not even saying that that's wrong. But as I look at his career and I think in a really simplistic way, are there 10 other careers I'd rather have than Rob?

Like if I got to be a fighter, are there 10 fighters I would rather be than Robbie Lawler? Are there five fighters who have given me more than Robbie Loller? than Robbie Lawler in his career. Alexander Volcanovsky is a great fighter, arguably the best ever. John Jones, great fighter, arguably the best ever. When they inevitably do leave this sport, I'll have some feelings about it. I'll think about it. It will be a moment.

It is not going to be $2.90. It is just not. Like, even if they go out in the best way, it is not going to register and resonate in a way that really is meaningful, like you were saying, Sean. And that's, what is that worth in the context of greatness? I honestly don't know, and I've been grappling with it for the past week since then, to be like, what can you say? Like, what more could he have done?

Winning isn't everything. We say it all the time. It's certainly not the only thing that matters. And what does matter, what Robbie gave us, what he gave me, maybe not to everybody else, is a lifetime of incredible moments. He is universally beloved, and I don't think we can say that enough. Like to come out of this sport with all that it entails, nobody has a bad thing to say about you. Everybody is thrilled about this triumphant exit and just everything.

It's really hard for me to sort of understand where he fits in the scheme of the fight game largely, because I think he probably should be viewed even higher than. he is because of how much everyone loves him and what he gave. And so, like, I don't know if he's the best fighter ever. I don't really know any of these thoughts out. All I do know is that he gave to me as much as anybody else has ever given in this sport. I will remember his highs and his lows fondly. I will revisit his catalog as much as anybody I ever have.

And at the end of the day, he gave us two of the best moments in history in his winning the title and his retirement. Those are feel-good moments in a sport that doesn't have them. So maybe you're not the best fighter ever. And I hate the term legend because I largely think it's like Triton overused. But there's ever a fucker who deserves to be called a legend in this game. It's Robbie Lawler. And the only thing I can say is the same thing I end all these episodes. But damn, you were good, Robbie.

And I will greatly miss you. That's it. Ladies and gentlemen, another episode of Dam in the books, just under two hours. And it was fun. We did it, boys. We did it. I'm so proud of us. I mean, it was actually like five hours in all time.

But it was two hours in actual recording and listening. I look forward to the re-lawler. When we do our first re, it will be Robbie Lawler whenever that happens. Shaheen, Stephen, thank you for coming on this journey. And as the long work it took to get done, I am very happy. Happy we did it. I'm happy y'all we're here for it. Until next time, I love y'all. See you. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S.

From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.

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