MMA Fighting - DAMN! They Were Good | Wanderlei Silva, The Most Intimidating Fighter In MMA History

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

DAMN! They Were Good celebrates the careers of the most exciting and influential fighters in MMA history and on this episode it celebrates the career of Wanderlei Silva, the most intimidating fighter to ever compete in MMA. 22 years ago this Friday, Wanderlei Silva made history, becoming the inaugural Pride Middleweight Champion after beating Kazushi Sakuraba for the second time at Pride 17. That win cemented "The Ax Murderer" as not just one of the best fighters in the world, but one of the scariest, and for the next four years, the MMA world would see him do nothing but reinforce that image. Whether he was annihilating cans or kneeing Quinton Jackson through the ropes, for half a decade, Wanderlei was appointment viewing, and his willingness to test himself against anyone, including guys like Mirko Cro Cop and Mark Hunt, solidified him as an all time fan favorite. What were the most iconic performances, what were our favorite memories, and what did we miss out on over Silva's 23 year run? Listen in as the MMA Fighting crews remembers the career of the original King of Violence. Follow Guilherme Cruz: @guicruzzz Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. We are back. That's right. It is damn they were good.

I am your host, as always, Jedmachy of M.Mayfine.com. Terrific website. And I got two terrific people with me today because we're doing it. Back to back. Back to back Brazilians. Back to back Silvas.

Back to back. Legendary iconic fighters. That's right. We are talking about Vandale Silva this week on Damn They Were Good. And I am joined, of course, by none other than the Brazilian Beast himself. The man we turn to for all things, Curitiba, all things, Sao Paulo, all things, just the entire nation of Brazil. and honestly we would probably extend it to South America at this point. Gareme Cruz.

And then of course joining us because, you know, three is a party. You got to round it out. Alexander K. Lee making his return to damn after, I don't know when the last one you were on, A.K. Habib. Habib. Okay. So not that long, actually. We're okay.

Fellas. It's time to talk about Vanderley Silva. We are speaking about Vanderley Silva because, I mean, aside from Van der Le Silver being one of the most iconic fighters in MMA history and like kind of one of those dudes who maybe isn't the exact purpose that this show exists for you know like the original conceit of this show is to remember fighters who maybe otherwise wouldn't be remembered

Vandalee doesn't fall on that I think he's too iconic for that but we were talking pre-show AK where it's like yeah Vandale maybe isn't that but Vandlea is a guy who I think as new generations of fans come in they can appreciate him less and less because of how the resume looks just at a quick glance. And so that's that's who this show is for. And the reason we're doing it specifically this time is because guys, we're old. I know through talking with you that you weren't, you know, part of this at the time.

And frankly, neither was I. But November 3rd, 2001's when he wins the Pride Middleweight Championship. I don't know if you guys know this. We're recording this on. Halloween day, but in just a few days, that will be the 22nd anniversary of Vandalee Silver becoming the pride, middleweight champion of the world. Plus, there are also like a litany of other fights that kind of coincide around this time period for him, most specifically the Quentin Rampage Jackson title defense in October 31st. In fact, today, 19 years today. So, seem like a

great time to do Vandale. Fellas, how are we feeling about doing Wondie? You know, what are your initial thoughts coming into this? I just feel like I might, maybe it's the wrong person for this one, Jed. I feel like, you know, I have poor violence. I watch everything. You're the wrong person for that then. I watch MMA for the artistry,

for the point fighting. I did the Habib episode with the understanding. I'm like, oh, great, I get to just watch a guy who just laid and prayed his way to a perfect record, didn't really hurt anyone. It was a great, fun, you know, a nightmare free episode. Let me tell you guys, I did a little research on this episode,

watch some of this Vandrelay guys fights. Some nasty stuff. Some nasty stuff. He did some bad things to people. It made me a little uncomfortable. I'm not going to lie. It made me a little uncomfortable. He does the most bad things to people.

I can't say ever, but who you just, I came into this with like a healthy respect for Vandrelay because like he was this is prime my entry into m m m a the hymn versus chuck stuff and all of that and we'll get into all of that but a lot of respect for him and still came into this one was like man as you start going through the catalog and watching all of the like best pride stuff and just like dude he's he's the original king of violence like we talk about eddie alvarez and justin gaecci and and Dustin Poy and these dudes, nah,

this is the homie right here who did all of that. He, not saying he's the most technically proficient dudes. So, okay, you're right. That's tough.

But he threw hammers like nobody before and maybe not anybody since. So it has been an incredibly fun dive down memory lane. Gee, what's your experience been coming into this? Because you and me both coming off Anderson Silva to Vandale,

Silva, two extremely different ways of inflicting the hurt on people. Would you agree? 100%. Van der Leigh is like, when you think about him, you think about violence. And he's such a nice gentleman outside of the ring, outside of the cage. It's insane to watch him do what he did for that living. And it was amazing to watch. I mean, I didn't get to watch his entire career.

Of course, I'm not that old, even if you say. None of us are. Yeah. But yeah, man, for the most part that I was able to watch, it's even if he wasn't in his prime, there was no boring fight with any receiver. This was always so much fun to watch. It's incredible. Dude, never a boring fight. Like the, he walked so Justin Gates he could run.

That was like one of the big things that stuck out of me as I kind of went back through this. Like, yeah, this man. I remember. I remembered why people loved him so much. Before we get into the topics this week, I got two questions. One, pretty standard. So let's lead off with this key because it's for you. I love to get the context of Brazil here because I'm very American.

I have the very American and me experience. You know, I'm a little older in the fandom, so my experience was not totally UFC-centric. But all of that feels that way. where's Vandale's kind of place in Brazilian MMA, not maybe in history, but just in the public perception, because you've been on for Josialdo, for Shogam, for Anderson Silva, and kind of sort of have a hierarchy here

of where these guys fall, but what are the Brazilian public think of Vandale? If there was a Mount Rushmore of Brazilian MMA, he would be there. He's just this legend that everybody looks up to as an athlete. as a person over the past few years there was more like a popularizing feature on social media figure actually on social media like when he was running for public uh if i like to for mayor or stuff

like that so deputy or things like that so so the more uh leaning more to to the right side of the political spectrum. So that kind of hurt him in a way. But as an athlete, like, everybody loves him. So it's just he's so fun in interviews and stuff like that. And as a fighter, his violence. So people love him. He's a superstar in Curitiba.

Oh, that totally makes sense. His career, like fighting for shootboxes and stuff like that. I'm glad to hear that. I mean, he is the iconic shoot-the-box guy, like even over Shogun, probably. Because, you know, like, that's sort of the perception I had watching his career. Like, hey, he's, he is that dichotomy of just the most violent dude that's ever been once, like, once the fight starts. But, like, he had a lot of personality in all the interviews and the interactions with boss. And, you know, even his interactions with, like, rampage outside of their rivalry was all like, seems like a super cool guy who then.

just gets in there and does the violence. And that is the part that I really want us to get into before we get into the rest of this is watching this all. And I don't care if Vanderle's the goat or any of those. Is he the single peak Vandale? Is that the most intimidating fighter of all time? Like, is there a fighter you would be less interested in staring down pre-fist fight?

Because I got to say, when you put all of it together. The walkout iconic, like the whole sandstorm thing coming in, the little hopping spin thing that he did does once he gets into the ring. The wrist roll. And then the stare down, the best stare down in MMA history. I don't think there's a question to it. He looked like he wanted to eat you. Like he is just staring through you as if he is going to chew down on your jugular.

I simply don't know if there is a more intimidating. fighter who has ever existed. If there is one of you, please tell me who. I don't have an answer. I'm with you. Just the element of violence of fear that he brought to a fight is it's impossible to replicate. And frankly, isn't something that's necessarily encouraged in today's MMA. We're pretty sanitized now. They will talk about every now and then you do have something like, oh, look at that stare down. Look how intimidating this fighter. look, you'll have that. But it feels a little put on with Vanderlae.

It's so real looking, even though we know he's... Stuff like that today. You push each other, you shove each other and then. Yeah, yeah. No, if Van der Leach shoves you, he's going to try to kill you. Yeah, yeah. It's incredible. It's incredible.

And it's aged so well. Like, I think just, again, going back alongside those old fights, I'm like, wow, this feels so real. And this feels, again, it's just something you really, you can't recreate now. So, no, I cannot think of a more intimidating. intimidating fighter. There have been like big guy people who we know who were power punchers in that sense, but not not in the sense that like this person's not just going to punch me. They might punch me until I'm no longer alive. And that is scary. Yeah, man. And it's like I when I was going

through it, I was thinking like, okay, and we already did an episode on him. Fador's sort of like quiet stoicism was its own sort of intimidating. But it was not the visceral like I pooped myself, which I would be. I mentioned this on the Anderson Silva show. We talked to her. I recounted a story from the esteemed E. Casey Live, Mr. 3224 himself about standing in opposite Anderson Silva for photos on the Jake Paul fight. Esther Lin was doing photos.

She needed someone to stand across him and got it out. And him telling me, like, I got it. Like when he did those photos, Anderson turned it on. And like, now I understood what it was like to be opposite him. and it was terrifying. And I think of that. And I'm like, and I don't even think Anderson had like that intimidating of a stare down.

I can't imagine what it would be like to stand across San Vallet when his shoulders are hunched and he's wrist rolling at you and just looking like he is going to decimate you and your entire bloodline. Like, just who I could not. I spent a long time trying to think if there's anybody even close. But to your point, AK, we don't see it a lot.

And honestly, when we do see people kind of do it, it feels fake, it feels like a bit of a put on. I don't feel like Anderson was putting anything on. I feel like he had flipped a switch and was now just an actual axe murderer in the cage.

If you look like if you're trying to rank like the most intimidating face-offs, you have to ignore the actual fights. If you pick this person and put in the middle of a mall and tell someone to face off with this fighter, are they going to

grab your pants. Without knowing if they are fighters and watching their fights, you know, if Vendale's Silver is not going to be intimidating because you don't know, I mean, any additional silver and Fittor are not going to be intimidated because they don't know anything. You just stand there. But you're thinking about your fights. If Vendezer Stend there and does his thing, you're going to grab your pants. It's going to be scary.

Yeah. Honestly, that's in a vacuum, absolutely. It's like, yep, okay. I know that man means to do me harm. That's unfortunate for me. And then he did. Did a whole lot of harm, as AK said. Anything else do you guys want to talk to before we hop right into the categories?

Because there's just a lot to discuss with him. So I figure we hop right in. But if you guys have anything you want to bring out about Valdi or should we proceed? I just want to say Jed and I were talking before the show. And we want to let people know like it we like, like, we like, one thing we struggled with was fitting everything into, because if people listen to the show, they know there's categories, there's categories, but there's some, this guy did so much stuff in his career. Some of it just doesn't fit into a category. So we're going to do our best to cover

anything. If we miss something, feel free to yell at us after. But it was difficult. It was difficult to fit all, everything you want to talk about regarding Vanderli Silva into sort of a tight show format. That's a great point, AK. I think that this is the first time, if you ever listened to the show before, you know that the categories are fairly extensive, arguably have too many of them at this point, which is why the show takes as long as it does. And this is the first time where I was like, I can't really even get all of the stuff in. So I just sort of have a notepad of things that I've also wanted to speak about. And then hopefully some of you guys will have some of these things in different categories. And if not, it may be a little disjointed

because I'll just be like, and by the way, since no one else is talking about this, let's talk about the series of fights with Ricardo Arona, because those were things that happened. And like, on that note, I couldn't do, like, this Mount Rushmore we're about to get into, super, super tough. Before we do, a very, very brief rundown, as I always do about Van der Le Silvo's career, just for the uninitiated, and give you the bullet points real, real fast. And they go like this, makes his pro debut in 1996. I guess if you want to go even back before then, he was born in, uh,

1976 July 3rd, included Tebow Brazil, makes his pro debut at 20, uh, fighting, um, bare knuckle fights, you know,

the old like actual true valetudo back in the 90s, which just horrific. Always a, always a fun thing. And shout out to fight pass. I got one major beef with fight pass, uh, for this whole thing,

but one big, big bonus for them. They had most of his IVC fights, uh, in their, in their library. So go back and you can check him, stomping out you know mike van arsdale whatever um moves to pride pride in about 2000ish wins the middleweight

title after having a couple of fights in the ufc sporadically after he wins the middleweight belt that's kind of that's the peak run that's peak vandalay we're going to spend most of our time speaking five years undefeated 18 wins from april 2000 to december 04 like he he's just the man one of the very top pound for pound fighters in the sport moves to the ufc in two oregon in two 2007 after Pride gets purchased by Zufa, fights nine times, then kind of winds his career up in Bellator, oddly. Ultimately, here is a list of just some of his accolades. Most wins in Pride history at 22 is the first fighter to ever win the Pride title and a Grand Prix for Pride. Most title defenses in Pride history.

Because a lot of the peak of his career happened before MMA became like certainly what it is now and even, even big. and relatively speaking, there weren't like, there's not like a, hey, here's the MMA fighting.com history of stuff, like of awards, but instead he's the wrestling observers fighter of the year in 2001, 2004, which I would say is probably about as good as you can have for those time frames. Also, fight of the year for Wrestling Observer in 03 and 04, back to back,

Shurdog fight of the year in 2004, the O4 fight is the Rampage Jackson Battle. and then the World MMA Awards, one fight of the year and knockout of the year in 2008, the Chuck Liddell fight, which actually happens in 2007 in December, and then the knockout of the year, the Keith Jardine fight.

We'll talk about all that later, but ultimately, we're talking about a dude who has 51 career MMA fights that I know about. I am absolutely willing to believe based on who he is. There could be more, but 51 confirmed fights with a record of 35 and 14, one draw, one no contest.

I don't actually think he's in the UFC Hall of Fame, which feels insane. He's not? Okay, that's insane. I mean, I guess he did end with the promotion poorly, which I'm sure we'll get into. So let's get into it. Ladies and gentlemen, the awards section,

the bulk of this podcast starts out every episode the same. The Mount Rushmore, you got four fights, four fights to put in your Mount Rushmore for Vandalee Silva. and I alluded to this earlier. Straight up, I think this is the hardest my Rushmore I've ever had. I mean, one, you've got 50 some odd fights.

It's always tougher when a fighter has 50, but like with some dude like with Robbie Lawler, it was a difficult thing to do because there were three no doubt about it. Had to have them in there. Three fight of the years, couldn't leave them off. And then it was placing that last fight

was the difficult one. For Vandale, before you joined us in the room pre-show, Guy. AK and I were talking. AK says he thinks that there are two, like, no doubt about it. I am not sure that there are any. I have two that I think you both will have, but I contemplated leaving both of them off my list.

They ultimately made the cut. So I will start chronologically with my list. And the first fight off, or the first fight I have on is, uh, Kazushi Sakaraba, Pride 13, March 25th, 2001. This is his first victory. over Sakaraba. He ultimately goes three and over Sakaraba in their rivalry. Maybe not his most iconic

win. I felt this was one I wanted to put on here because one, I feel like you got to have the Sakuraba rivalry in there. It was such a key part to his pride run and to his stardom and ascension. The second Sakaraba fight is straight up like a better fight to watch this first one, but it ends really weirdly.

Sakharaba breaks his clavicle or separates his shoulder one of the two. I'm not actually sure. Kind of ends sort of lamely between rounds and then the third fight. We're past it with Sakharaba. This is the fight, though. It wasn't his first pride win. This actually came after the Dan Henderson and Guy Metzger wins. But this is really the fight

to me that signaled his arrival. He's the dude. Now, Sakharaba was kind of the guy. He's coming off the hoist win. He is now the man in pride or one of the dudes in pride that's going to carry the standard bear or carry the flag. And it's just a pure annihilation.

I mean, he runs right over Sakaraba. So do either of you have Sakaraba 1 in your lists? Yes, sir. Way to go, Guy. AK is staring silently at me as if he left it off. And that's okay. I don't think there's any wrong way to go. I went Sakaraba 3.

I went Sakharaba 3. You went Sakharaba 3. Yeah, I know this is the... Defend yourself. And I am a cruel man. I know that's by the way. It doesn't like violence. One of the nastiest chaos you'll ever see in your life of an absolute legend.

Blankately unnecessary fight. Pre-fight quadros and boss are talking. I think he was quadruc and boss. It could be wrong in that. I'm like, what do you want to see happen if Zagrable loses? I hope he retires. He's taking too many shots.

That's a boss. Boss is like, yeah. I want him to, you know, still have his faculties and not talk like a punch drunk or whatever. And then he goes and gets like the worst knockout of his entire career. And then he goes on to fight for another 12 years. He does. And honestly, I'm not I'm not opposed to it because he still has some good, I mean, immediately after this,

he freaking unbelievably beats Kevin Randleman immediately after this fight. No regrets. So I'm fine with it. Um, Sakaraba, for those of you listening who know him, he is the one of the patron saints of this podcast. Him, Robbie Loller, Carlos Condit, Justin Gaichi one day will be considered a patron saint, but he's still, you know, doing it. Um, Sakharaba is going to have his day.

Don't you worry, y'all. Okay. So, Guy, you selected this Sakharaba fight. Uh, is it for the similar reasons I did? Um, talk me through it. Yeah. It's, you, you just have to, to have Sakharava there. And it's, I mean, aside from A.K.

Who's just a mean dude. That's the fight that made Vendelé a superstar Japan, like destroying Sakurabu the first time. The other ones are just like repeating the damage. But the first one was just who made him just a superstar there. So it has to be there. I'm glad that you're not a cruel man like A.K. is. I'm not. I don't like that much.

Interestingly enough, I'm assuming none of you, given that you both have a Sakaraba fight, none of you have multiple Sakharov. Neither of you have multiples, right? You didn't put two. I don't mean that much. Only Akados. I wrote, I wrote for my choice of three. This was the definitive Vandrelay Sakarava mercy killing. So I guess that's why I wanted to have made sure this was represented. I agree. The stakes weren't quite as high as the first fight. I understand. This was, after seeing that first fight, people kind of knew every time they ran into each other. It was just going to be a classic, like, oh, my God, Sakarab is too

tough for his own good. But I do like the fact that he knocks him stone, stone frozen on the ground. And it's just, it's funny to me. So that's why in Sakarab's defense in the third fight, he's giving a good accounting of himself before getting absolutely laid out. Just a one-two combo down the middle just and it's, oh, he. gone. He is out of there. Just sends him. He is out of there. Hey, look, it's one of the best highlights, so I don't really have an issue with you.

I do think that I thought that this could happen, and this is going to be, this is really interesting. This might be the first time in the history of this show that a champion is being, you know, remembered, and the fight that they won the title is not part of them out Rushmore because he wins the inaugural middleweight title over Sakhar. in the second fight. And I didn't think anyone would have it in there because it's, it's the least memorable of the three, frankly.

Ends an injury, right? Yeah, ends in an injury. It's a decently competitive fight, but it just ends very weirdly and it's not there. So I get it. But making history on Damn, the podcast. My number two, I really struggled with this because I thought about doing, I'm doing it chronologically. I thought about having some other pride fights in there. I'm ending with two pride fights in his Mount Rushmore for me, which feels a little wrong

holistically because pride is such a big part of him. But I went ultimately with the only fight that I think is going to be on both of years for sure. Quentin Jackson, two, it's at Pride 28. It is one of the highlight knockouts of all time. It is the part of the fight of the year in 2004. It is the iconic one when I think of Quentin Rampage Jackson. fighting vandalay silva frankly when i just think of vanderlea silva the the fighter the first thing you

think is him kneeing quentin through the ropes and the rematch i think this is the only one that i'd feel pretty pretty confident you guys you'll you'll both have on your list so am i correct in that yes sir this yeah this was one of my locks this was one of my i feel a lock again it may be because of how iconic the finishes could uh and will as a little teaser fit into some of the other categories uh but you have to It's the second part of an incredible feud. What would have been an incredible feud if the other fights, the other later unfortunate fights didn't happen. Just that two-fight series is a classic.

It's like an all-timer. And the tension is so palpable. And rampant, again, unlike the Sakarabata fights, it's not like Rampage, you know, it's not like, oh, he's just getting trotted out to get killed by, like, Vand vandalagan. It's like, oh, no, maybe this is a real shot of redemption for him. And he has his moments in the fight,

but then just the way it ends, It's like, wow. It's like he, we know who the better man is, you know, in this, in this, uh, in this series. And it's so, so awesome. Dude, it's, I mean, it's such a better fight than I really remember it being because the highlight that finish is so, so dramatic. It sticks out in your mind so much that you kind of forget that prior to this, the fight was like prior to that happening.

The fight was awesome. I entirely forgot. And I've seen it a hundred times probably. I entirely forgot that the knees were all, were ultimately. triggered by Quinn ducking into a like just a vicious right hook and like you think of of Rampage as an insanely durable dude because he is and was his whole career was incredibly durable and just getting hurt by a by a vandy hook and then just doing the same thing in the first one only only getting the more lasting image i really struggled with this one versus the first one of quentin this is

ultimately a better fight in a more iconic moment and imaging gets there but the first one i think also do either of you have the first rampage fight in your mount rush morse no i'm getting nose here no yeah no i had to pick i i had to pick one yeah you got to pick one and like the thing is the first one though he wins the middleweight grand prix and it's it's also just sort of this epic moment where it had been a good fight and rampages on top for periods of it and and doing what he did to chuck O'Dell And then there's a yellow card and a stand up and then here come the knees and it's just there. So I picked this one, but I don't, again, I think you don't have to have this one on it if you don't want, which is sort of the problem. Yeah, it's a problem with Vandale.

It's almost like after these first two picks, you feel like it should be a Mount Rushmore of just opponents, right? A Mount Rushmore of Vanderle. Oh, yeah. Because then you easily fit in all three Sakharov fights. You fit in all two. I'm going to say two. I know there was four. I just want to talk about the two.

The fourth one never happened. Frankly, the third one never happened. No, the third one was a big deal, but the fourth one was so necessary. Third one was a big deal, but I would have been okay if it never happened. Yeah, you could have just, you could just do, you know, rampage, Sakaraba, croak up and like Yoshida, and that would be a totally fine series of rivalries. Yeah. My next one, like I said, I ended up doing two UFC.

ones and I don't feel frankly good about either. I did go with Chuck Godell, um, the UFC 79 December 29th, 2007. How can you not feel good about that? How can you know, this is my law.

This is my other lock. I assume that this would be your other lock. I think that's going to be on there. Have to. Yeah. Um, one, he does lose,

which it hasn't been the role. Like we've, we've had other losers on fight of the year. Tends to be a great exception for losing. Um, the reason I don't, feel good about this one is even rewatching i went and rewatch it this morning and it's it's still a good fight it still holds up and i remember watching this live and being so excited that even though it's so

clearly passed it sell by date we were at least getting it and they had but they were both in a spot where it wasn't even that bad that it was late it's not like one of them was surging it's like all right both dudes are past it let's just have them give give what they got and what they got was still a really a good fight. And rewatching, I was just like, man, fights quality, this was four years too late. Like, it is just, it hurts me to put this fight on the Rushmore, even though I think it deserves to be there. Has to be. Because it's still, this is not prime. This is not the, the A1 cut here. We are, this is the, the flank of, it's of his career. And we're just doing the best we can with it. And so, it's why I almost left it off.

I'll just talk about it elsewhere because you're not getting Prime Vandale, but you are getting flashes of Prime Vandrelai, and it is really exciting and great. No, this is a lot. I got to defend this moment. This is a lock for me. I totally get what you're saying, and I probably watched it under a different context. You guys know, we said this in the Fador episode. I missed a lot of the pride, you know, greatest moments as they happened, right?

So I caught them, thank God for like HDNet, you know, Access to you later. Shout to HDNet. HEDNET, just replaying some of these things over and over and over again. It was wonderful and just burning into my brain. But, you know, I wasn't there in the moment. I remember when I watched this fight, I think I was still pretty young in my MMA fandom. And so a lot of the context had to sort of be like explained to me. I think I hadn't even seen the HEDD&A.

I'm over just saying like, and you know, you look at them, it sells itself pretty easily. But yeah, this was his, and I was familiar with Chuck Ledell. This was his first fight in the UFC after seven years. He returns to the UFC. This was my favorite fight for the longest time. Then Robbie Lawler came back and fought Carlos Condon and all this other stuff happened. And so it's probably still my top 10. But not necessarily because there's a nostalgia element for sure.

Not like objectively one of the 10 best fights ever. It's one of my 10 favorite fights ever. You're right way past its best before date. Even I could tell. I was like, I was kind of looking at them like, okay. And the people I was with were saying like, this fight should happen years ago, bro. but it's going to be sick. And I'm like, okay, cool.

And they delivered, man. They delivered. It was everything you would have wanted, even though, yes, it wasn't the best version of themselves. So many great exchanges. And what really gets me is also like, this is a career-defining and life-changing fight, I think, for both guys, especially for Chuck.

So for Chuck. I don't know if people remember, this is the last time Chuck Ladell won a fight. This was it. He beats Vanderlea and then it's knocked out four, straight times, three times in the first round. He's never the same, which makes Michael Berg's commentary hilarious,

because at the end, he's like, he says, he's still got more to give. Chuck Ladle's back. The Iceman returns. And again, never won a fight again. But I really believe this fight took just whatever was left of Chuck's chin, gone. Gone

in this fight. He ate some bombs in this one. And so did Vanderlae. And Van der Leigh still managed to win some fights after, go to some decisions after, but I still don't think he was the same. I think both guys left something in there. And that's why I just, I can't, like, I can't look away from this fight. I think it's such an important part of Wandi's history,

even if it is kind of the start of maybe one of the sadder stretches of a career. But he had some good wins after. He had to much better aftermath for Wandi than Chuck Liddell. That's for sure. I love this fight. That fight is epic. I was not an MMA fan before I started working with the MMA. I was hired by Tatakami magazine two weeks. I was like mid-December, and I was going to start working for them on January 2nd, 2008, like five days, four days after that fight.

So I was just starting to watch it. And that was like the perfect way to start my M.A fandom was watching that classic. It was surreal. I know it wasn't prime ventry. I know it wasn't prime check, but that fight was incredible. it's a really good intro for in and that's like it's a terrific intro um and maybe i'm just too close to it because i remember watching it and being electrified at the time being like look it's worth it even though it's too late and we all kind of do it the fight still delivered the fight was still

awesome um and i think maybe it's just like i have a just a different relationship to it now because we're watching like oh i really wanted it more but at the same time one of my overarching thoughts when I was rewatching it this time was like, this is how you're supposed to do it. Like we don't have to send legends out with just kill shots against people who are just going to annihilate them. Like let them do this because this is, this is what makes sense for them.

We need more of this. Even though both dudes kept fighting afterwards, could have been a really nice way to end both of their careers, frankly. But we did it. And that left us with my last. pick for the Mount Rushmore. Probably the pick I feel the least good about it, if we're being honest. But I went with Vandelae's very next fight, his knockout, 36-second knockout of Keith

Georgine at UFC 84. That ends up being knockout of the year for 2008 by some estimations. It's awesome. I remember that fight being just the best because Vandale at that point had lost three in a row. I mean, two of them badly. He lost the Crowe Cop rematch with the nasty head kick. Dan Henderson had put him out. And then the Chuck Liddell fight, he had shown something, but he was clearly pretty small against Chuck. We all kind of thought Chuck might be on the way out as well. And then he loses that fight gets hurt several times. We think this could be tough. He comes in against Keith Jardine, a guy who at the time was doing well, you know, coming off his own victory of Chuck Ladell. and just blasts him. And it's awesome.

It's Vintage Vandy. He just comes in, runs right over him, just devastating hammer shots with the chokehold finish on the ground, which was a very hot internet topic at the time because, like, you're theoretically not supposed to just actually strangle someone with your hands like that. He was holding him down by the neck. That's not the same thing as choking. Come on. That's not the same. Just be gentle. Just don't move.

It was. It was here. Please stop moving, sir. Please stop moving, sir. Yeah. I think Kijardine would have preferred that he actually just be throttled like that, as opposed to eat the monster shots that came down on him. But, you know, when you win knockout of the year, it's going to be really hard for me to

leave that out of the Mount Rushmore, particularly because this was such a meaningful win to me as a fan at the time. Hey, we got one more. Vandy, you know, goes out there and just gets blasted and retires soon. So, okay, we got, we got the vintage back. And it's always a really, really good feeling to see the vintage come out one more time, like with Robbie Lawler and his retirement, like with any of those scenarios. So that rounds out my Mount Rushmore. Do either of you have Keith Jardine? It wasn't on my list, but I didn't get it. I have been another category. So I do want to talk about it more, but yeah. Gee, what was your fourth then?

It was Brian Stan. Yes, yeah. There you go. I mean, being in Japan, it was surreal. It was a fantastic fight. Like, credit to Brian Stan, because he's also the reason why that fight was amazing because he chose to say, fuck it. Let's just have fun.

And have fun like that against Van deris, it's not something 99% of people in the world would do. and so great to Brian Stan but that fight was incredible being Japan like that was amazing to watch

that was so fun I got I have this fight in another category but absolutely absolutely agree um rewatch this as well fight is sick

I mean Brian Stan hurts Vandy like several times yes this could have gone very keeps going this could have gone very poorly for Vandria but Brian's just

down to get down, just boogie and just kind of folds in like, is one of the most classic Vandolay performances where he gets her, because he got hurt or sat to a knee or dropped, like even a ton in pride against people he should have run over. The way

he fought just opened himself up to catch counters. And Brian Stan just couldn't be savage as long as Vandale could. And the fact that it happens in Saitama, you know, it's five of the night, it's knock out of the night, it's all these things. Brian Stan's final career fight, I think that I sort of vacillated between that versus

Keith Jardine as my last spot. I went with the K-O of the year because it's cheap heat, but I totally get this one. This should have been the final fight for both these guys. In a perfect world, this would have been Brian Stan's retirement. This would have been Van der Leigh Silver's retirement, and it would, I think it would have made it, I almost want to say it would have made it like a lock if it had been able to go out like this, I think because Vanderley fought again in a couple of completely forgettable fights after, it diminishes.

If this was his retirement fight, this is a lock. Yeah. This is a guaranteed lock. Oh, what a shame. What a shame. Because Brian Stan's a hero.

Yeah. And this fight may also benefit from like relative recency, but just 10 years ago now, but relative recency compared to, you know, the majority of his career. So, but yeah,

I had it on here, but I didn't feel super strong about it. There's just a lot of great fight. I don't know if you want to start writing down to honorable mentions because there's like 10. So what are your four then? You have your rampage two, Chuck Lidale, Brian and Stan,

Saccharaba three and Stan. And Sakaraara three. Okay. Which is interesting because I thought we'd end up here as well. My top honorable mention the actual one that would have been, would have replaced any of these if I had changed them. It's Hidehiko Yoshita, the first encounter at Pride Final Conflict, 2003. I'm really confident

saying that this is the first time and maybe the only time in the history of this program that a fight of the year will get left off of Mount Rushmore. This is a 2003 fight of the year per wrestling observer who's like one of maybe two companies doing things like that

from me at this point. The fight it's sick. If you have gone back and rewatched it, it's the semifinals of the Middleweight Grand Prix. It is the fight that happens the same night that he fights, Quentin Jackson the first time. That's right. He fights hit a I could use Shita to a 15-minute decision in a back-and-for scrap that's super dope. And then he goes and knees Quentin Jackson unconscious

to claim the middleweight Grand Prix title. I left it off just because it was like, it's not the most memorable fight of the year in that regard. And really the thing you remember from that evening is the Quentin Jackson win. So kind of just missed for me. But I mean, I highly recommend anyone with a fight pass subscription, go back and watch it. It's underrated good fight. Those are both in the martial arts, though, AK. They mix the martial arts. Those fights were in the same day.

Same day. That's crazy. MMA was crazy. That's how they used to do the GPs in prize. That is insane. They'll do an opening round and then a quarterfinals and then the semis and the finals are on the same day. What were we doing back then? This is animals.

Animals. So that fight also, the counterprivile. part on the other side of the middleweight bracket, if you recall, or maybe you won't recall as you weren't a big fan at the time or whatever, the fight that preceded that for Quentin Jackson was his victory over Chuck Ladell. And I remember like the narrative after the fact became deep in the forums at least, man, Vandale really got handed some good options from pride. They set Quentin up in tougher spots. They set Vandale up in better spots where he's going to have an easier road through tournaments. And like, not totally opposed to that. I mean,

Quinn Jackson had to fight Murla Bustamanch and the quarterfinals barely won that fight. Then he gets Chuck Ladell. And at the time, you remember Chuck Ladell, he'd just be known as to overing. That's supposed to be the set up fight. The whole goal is to have Vandale and Chuck in the tournament finals here. And Rampage screws that all up. But at the same, time like if you go back and watch yes chuckledell is undeniably a harder opponent that hit a yike yushita but i mean he still fought heki yoshita for 15 hard minutes like that he had more time in the cage coming into that final fight and so it was the thing i kind of didn't remember until it went back and rewatched how good the yoshita the first yoshita fight is second one's also

fine um not not nearly his quality though so that was my first honor roll mention i think you could have a ton of them. We already talked about Rampage 1, which was my second honorable mention. I also want to throw a shout out here because I think the rest of these are can kind of, we'll probably get talked about in other categories I'd have, but just the other one that I had that I really gave some consideration to was Mark Hunt Pride Shockwave 2004. It is, it's the fight that ends Vandelaide's undefeated streak. So he's undefeated for five years. probably should have won the fight, if we're being honest. I mean, the commentators,

Randy Couture, who's in the booth for that boss, are there, and they're both, like, pretty sure that Mark Hunt didn't win this. We get the atomic butt drop. One of my favorite moments in M.A. history, when we do Mark Hunt. That's a 10-8. Not that they use that scoring system,

but that's a 10-8 in, like, the modern school. Like, automatic 10-8. You butt-drop somebody. Automatic 10-8. It's tough. And, yeah, just like the other circumstances. Vandale took the fight on, like, three days notice or something.

Mark Hunt clearly weighed 80 pounds or more, more than him. And he's in there fighting a K-1 champion and probably beating him. So that was just like, I was kind of trying to figure out what other pride fight I would put in over the second UFC bout if I was going to do it. And that's the fight that it's not the most meaningful. I think the crow cop fights are more meaningful, et cetera. but I think he wins the fight and so that makes it a little more

but what do you guys have for honorable mentions here? Go ahead, Guy. What was your hardest to leave off? Yeah, I mean, the whole Hikado-Arona rivalry it's so important for the history of the sport like shoot boxing Brazilian top team but the fights were... The classic rivalry.

Yeah, but the fights weren't like good enough to beat the other ones and get to the bomb rushmore. But those fights are so important and so key to his history and the history of Brazilian MMA and pride itself. So it's hard to leave Arona's name out of this. I think that that's... Arona is one of those guys where I said I had some notes.

Arona was hard for me to fit into places in the categories as constructed because you're right, these are super meaningful. when Arona beats him in the middleweight Grand Prix in 05, by this time I'm actually a fan of MMA, keeping up with stuff on Shirtog and stuff. And that is like a really big moment because that's Vandale actually losing a middleweight fight. Doesn't end up losing his title and then that became a whole thing, which always felt a little, like I got it, I understood it, but it felt like people who hated pride and or Vandle latched on to that of he's not even defending his title in these. Like he's not really the champion, but it makes sense because it wasn't the same. Like the title, it was a two round fight instead of a three round fight. Like so it's just not a title fight, which kind of makes sense.

Sort of just how pride did business. And then they run it back, whatever it was, six months later, however many months it is. And that fights really contingentious, you know, go to the split decision. That fight, A.K. Lee, I don't know if you know this or not. The second errone fight, that's where we get the wonder that is. Charles Crazy Horse Bennett and all of that because Oh dear before that fight before that fight the crazy horse Run in happens before that fight and so I don't think

Van der Leas Silver gets enough credit for getting knocked out cold by Charles Bennett and then waking up and going and fighting Ricardo Arona and beating him Is it time like pretty tough do we have it under another I didn't know where to talk about crazy horns I kind of I think we can slide this and have him tied into several categories okay so do we want to hold off on it for We can just get into the craziest thing right now. Okay. Before we do.

No, let's get into it now. Let's get into it now. Let's, let's. Might as well. Who wants to recap exactly what happened here? Because years later, I still get the details kind of mixed up in my head. But it has to be mentioned. So it's understandable to get the details mixed up in your head.

But the shortest version of this that I have is immediately before the Ricardo-Orona fight at Shockwave five. The rematch, the one where like, hey, this is the dude who just beat Vandale in the GP. Maybe he's actually the best middle weight. As Guy said, it's Brazilian top team versus shoot the box. Like, I don't know if there's ever been a more iconic rivalry in MMA, but certainly in the mid-2000s, like, that was the thing. And probably still is like the thing. I can't even think of another rivalry that's akin to that today.

Prior to that, Guy, who was it? It was one of Vandale's teammates, and, like, there are a ton of videos, not of Vandalea getting knocked out, but of Christian Marcella choking him out. Christian Marcella, that's it, who chokes out Crazy Horse in the locker room after they get into it. I don't even remember what it's about, but like you can see videos of that whole confrontation happening of Crazy Horse, now known as felony, but I'm never going to call him that crazy horse getting choked out. and he wakes up and then allegedly, which I think it's not even allegedly, I think it's just confirmed at this point. Yeah.

wakes up and just knocks out Vandalei Silva. Charles Crazy Ors Bennett, for those who are unaware, as, I guess at the time he was in the lightweight division. I don't remember what they called that. Did they call that welterweight in Pride, maybe? Maybe they just called it lightweight,

like a 155-pounder who knocks out the baddest dude on the planet for all intends. purposes at that point. And it just became this huge thing. As of course it would. Just imagine if, well, who is the bad as 205 are on the planet right now, guys? That's up for debate, given the current UFC rankings and how light heavy weight's going down.

Let's say it was Yeri Prahashka, let's say. Okay. All right. Yeah, let's say it's Yeri Pahashka. Let's, if Yuri Perashka gets into an altercation with, because it's not even like he was like a top, top lightweight at that time. Say if, who's a, Bobby Green, honestly, perfect, perfect correlate. If Bobby Green just wakes up and just sleeps Yuri Perashka before UFC 295. And then then Yeri goes out there and beats Alex Pereira at USC 295 still.

It was freaking insane at the time and has sort of still been insane. forever. Crazy Horse and Vandle have beefed about it for years when Crazy Horse was in Risen and one of my favorite moments in MMA, maybe not history, but certainly of the past decade is Crazy Horse makes his Risen debut. I think it might be the last time Crazy Horse want to fight actually. He goes in and just kills Minoru Kumar in like four seconds or something dumb. And then sprints around the ring and is doing crazy horse thing and then gets the mic and calls out for a fight with Vandalee wasn't his corner.

Yeah, Vandler was there. It was awesome. It was the best. I don't have a lot to add. I just remember when we did our 25 best moments to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Pride, this Charles Bennett knocking out Vanderlade made it. Even though we don't have footage. It still made our list.

It had to be talked about. It lived on the Forbes forever. Shepardt people to delete the footage because they were filming. Yeah. They filmed in a band, Christiana Masal took him out. Then he wakes up. That footage made it. We got that footage.

Yeah, we have the, yeah. But so it wakes up. And goes to Van der and Knoxkina and just runs away. They go to the, to drive employees. I filmed it out. It just just erase that shit. That never happened. So,

Guy, do you think it's out there somewhere? Like, do you think that someone saved it somewhere? No, I don't think so. I think it's gone. The old cameras,

you know, just rewind the shit, and film all over it. So, there's no backup. It sucks so hard because you kind of understand it, but one,

that was always going to get out. Like, there was, that was never going to be something that stayed, hidden and two this far removed everyone would just love to have that like i think everyone involved would be like it honestly be kind of dope to still have that running around on the internet yeah um and god i would love it so much crazy horse crazy horses is for sure getting a damn if he ever

retires but i'm not sure that day will ever come it has to be a damn they were weird though not a damn i mean he's yeah i'm not sure he was ever good but he is incredible he is like the forest gump of if Forrest Gump was a psychopath. That I'm going to have to marinate on that one. I'm not sure. I'll think about it. Maybe it's been quite as entrenched in the history of MMA, but it does feel like his name pops up

in some weirdly notable. In that regard, yes, he does kind of show up in some weird spots of infamy, I guess. So, yeah, that, I think the erronephites key are to get us back to where he started. Oh, yes, right. Okay, all right.

I'm a feeling it'll come up again. It'll come up again. But yes, go on. I'm sorry. It will come up again. The erronefights were ones that, like we said at the top, I didn't know where to put them. Like, I think they matter.

I think they're significant. Had nowhere to put them. So I didn't know what to do with it. You, uh, Ghee, any other honorable mentions? No, I think that's the one. That's the one that almost got in. AK, what about you?

So you said the opponent, Mount Rushmore, would be Sakaraba, rampage of Rona and Yoshida. Oh, Crocop. I think Crow Cop makes the thing.

Interesting. Okay, so that was my other one. Yushita is like the forgotten all of these fights for him, despite them being decent fights. I think you got to go Crow Cop. their pair of fights is

certainly iconic in the history of pride. And even if maybe there's didn't really ultimately work out great for him, I would say he won the first one. Yeah, Vanderlai Crocoff won at Pride 20, April 2002 was my one I almost put instead of Stan. I was like, because it's kind of an important fight to watch. It's a weird fight. It's they were, I think they had special rules.

Yeah, with some of it, I don't know if it was just Crowe Cop, but I think some of the kickboxes was coming over. It was like to make it easier for them. It was like not easier, not easier to win, but transition. Early on with K1 guys to make it a little simpler because they started bringing a lot of K1 dudes. in and instead of having them fight full full MMA rules Yeah, yeah. It was sort of a hybrid

sort of a pancreas style almost where if you got to the if you get to the ropes not like if you grab the ropes in pancreas the submission lock has to be released or whatever like pro wrestling but if you get like under the ropes where they would normally

restart you in the center which is how they sort of solved that issue the issue of the ring in pride they just stood you up. Right. And and also if the about went the distance, it would go to a draw. This did change later. Yeah, this did change later. To some extent, exhibitions in that regard, no judges.

Yeah, and as you said, it feels like Vandelae won this fight. Van der Leigh definitely won the fight by just about any metric. I think he beat Mirko Krokoff in the front. Everyone remembers the second fight, the head kick. I've seen that highlight so many times. This first fight does not get talked about a lot. And again, this is a legit heavyweight going against the guy who's probably a 185er, right? I mean, we know he's competing at what, because middleweight and pride was still like over 185.

It wasn't 100. 200. But he's a small. Middleweight was like 199. That's just not cutting weight. That's just not cutting weight. That's just Vanderlay walking around. And Mircro's not like an enormous heavyweight, but he has legitimate heavyweight.

And Vanderlade takes it to him. Like he mixes the martial arts. He wins some of the striking exchanges. It's really impressive to watch. So that one is like a sneaky one. I almost tell, but it's almost not like essential. It's more like a, you know, people's, it's a shame if people don't talk about this one because it's, he may have beaten Mirko the first time. Yeah, I mean, if they had judges, he definitely is beating Mirko the first time.

Like that's the commentary talks about it. I think it's quadruism boss on the call again. And they're like, yeah, I think, I know we don't have any judges, but it feels like Vandali did enough. You got to see part of Vandali's game that I remember less and less until I went did this is just how comfortable he was grappling. I mean, you think of him as a shoot-the-box moitai guy. And, like, that's certainly the bulk of his game. But he was happy to work from the top position, happy to get takedowns and kind of, you know, BGJ Black Belt as well. So, yeah, I think Crowe Cop is definitely the Mount Rushmore of rivalries of fighters, if you want to put there.

And this would, this is a better fight to put on Van der Leigh's Mount Rushmore than Crow cops. If we do crocop, hint, hint, we are doing Crowcop later this year, I'm pretty sure that Vandal A2 will be on Crowcops Mount Rushmore, at least for me. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. It's hockey season, and you can get anything.

you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. All right. next category. We're done the big one.

We're an hour in. This is great, because now we're moving into the other stuff. The I'm not impressed by your performance. Award. I'm not impressed by your performance.

For the low point of the fighter's career, the thing that you're not impressed by. AK, I'm really excited to hear for me on this one. We were talking about it pre-show. You have a list. You think, and you rightly point out

that there are a number of low spots. I agree. absolutely understand this statement. I wrote two answers down. I wrote one actual answer. It was immediately jumped to my head. It's the only answer I'm going to accept as the winner in this category. And then I have a second one that I just kind of want to talk about. I'm excited to hear what your answers are, though, because you seem to have a harder time. Yeah. My first note was, is this where we talk about the Charles Bennett incident? But we kind of already just did.

And it's such a weird moment. It's almost not like you almost wouldn't call it the lower. lowest point because it's just this thing that happens backstage and he's talked about it. He got rid of the video. Might be the lowest point with the video was out there. But hey, now it's just people's account. But even Vandrele has talked about it. So I was like, do we talk about it now? The first thing that came up and I don't know if this is necessarily my pick was him just

getting starched by Chris Levin in 27 seconds. It's a great moment for me. I'm a big Chris Levin guy and I felt like he had a very good chance to knock Vanderlai out. But looking back on it, it just was kind of, it feels a bit sad. It feels a little disappointing because Vandrele, I never, like, it just felt wrong for him to end up as part of Chris Liebun's highlight reel. Like, it just shouldn't have gone that way. So I love it, but it's a pretty dark point.

Again, thankfully he does have other highlights after that. But just in isolation, if you're looking at the latter stages of career besides the Bellator stuff, that's like about, that's, it's really bad. It's like as bad as it got in the UFC. So my other mentions were, again, you know, getting killed by Rampage. The last two fights wasn't great. He is right. The third fight, whatever, is an exciting moment.

The fourth fight. Being on the receiving end of the butt bomb, yes, losing, and having his, his, well, how many fights? What was his win streak in pride, undefeated streak? 18. 18 fight undefeated streak. And then a split decision, you know, maybe disputed, but split decision to Mark Hunt, that feels not great. And then the Chelsonen not letting him get close. on the set of the Ultron Fighter.

I always feel like didn't go his way. I can't let you get close to me and then Sonan takes him down. That's a weird moment. And I didn't know where else to fit it. That's actually a really good one. Yeah, I didn't know where else to fit it. It's not a great moment for Vanderli though. That whole season is a shockingly bad moment for Van der Leigh

because Sonan comes off as a super nice guy. Which is shocking. And the fighters fell in love with him. And Vandie, I don't know if he ever quite got a feel for the show. he came off as not I don't want to say the villain but man son what should have been an easy like wow vanderlaced the hero sonan's like a piece of crap uh you know and unfortunately the fight didn't happen at the time uh after but it should have been very clear cut lines and instead van vandy came off a little like a little unlikable on the show yeah that is a terrific answer um which i didn't honestly

somehow escaped me, but yeah, that, because I kind of have that tied into some of this other thing I want to talk about here, but the, that whole thing with Chail Sunnan is, is a pretty bad look for, for Vandy. So I'm, it was a great answer. I will also acknowledge that your Chris Lieben choice, if I was, you know what, let's go to Guy before I acknowledge your Chris Leibon choice. Guy, what do you got here? AK's list is pretty good, but my.

My low moment wasn't there, and I don't accept any other answer, but mine is just the right answer. I hope we have the same right answer. The lowest point of when this career is him, like, running from the back door of his gym from a drug test and getting suspended like for an eternity. And eventually it comes back, but. Allegedly. Run away from your gym, like hiding from someone who's going to drug test. you. That was just bizarre. That was just surreal. So that's the second answer I had.

The fact that never happened and only happened years later in Belator. But that's just bizarre. That's just bizarre, man. That's the second answer I had. We'll get to me first to say. That's the one I have just sort of the end of his UFC career, how all of that happened, the refusing to drug test, the running away, getting banned for life. I don't know if you guys remember. He was like four years, five years?

No, he was originally banned for life and then they overturned it. Right together with Nick Diaz, like five years, or things like that. I had to dig this up. Gee, you spoke to Vanderlay for Maffining.com's April 2015. The headline, Van der Leigh-Silva calls out-of-com drug testing, quote, against the Constitution. So pretty strong.

Pretty strong. People look this up. This is a greet ease interview. I'm afraid. It's obviously unconstitutional. Why would we do this? It was incredible in real time being like, feeling like physically cringed. Like, oh, you're so important to this sport and this.

Why? Ooh, just don't. Just fail the drug test, man. Like Anderson Silva failed some drug tests. John's like a lot of people failed drug tests and we're okay with it. Don't do this. And then I think the part that people don't remember is like the him tying this in to accusations that the UFC was fixing fights.

Yeah, it's all again. How freaking insane that all got. People check out this interview. Yeah, this was a phenomenal interview, by the way. I remember I remember reading this inside. It's been a while to read it. But this was a phenomenal interview. You got him talking about you got him talking about everything in this.

Like he had no, no filter. This is no filter, Vanderlead just going. Wow. It's just April 25th. That's a terrific answer. And if I didn't have my answer, that would be my number one because that's good. The whole end of his UFC career was bizarre and bad and painful in ways that we really didn't need for him. But the only true answer here, it doesn't even go to him.

It's not, Vandy doesn't win this. Vanderlais plastic surgeon wins this because I don't care if you can breathe now Drick's Duplice, he got a nose job and he looks the same that dude's face changed overnight in a way that like the internet did not stop talking about for a year

Joe Rogan in the rich Franklin fight like notes it and it's like dude he looks weird it is so a guy who had let me figure out how many fights he had had before then like 40 some odd professional fights and then just like fundamentally looked different a guy that we had known and was just like hey and i get it he did it for medical reasons but like get you a better plastic surgeon my guy

like your nose a nose has not changed that much since micro jacks as well we just and he's had right every punch he was getting here it was open so we just just change the bones. Yeah, just like did the sawdown thing that they like said that Nick Diaz, or whatever. I didn't interview once with Anderson Silva right after he did that

incredible piece of art on his face. And Anderson Silva was getting weird in interviews. He wasn't like answering questions normally, like a normal human being. And I was just tired. I mean, I was just in this interview. And he was like, no. Ask me different questions.

The first one I asked was, how do you like Verdele's Seva's new face? He's like, he's so sexy. He's like Angelina Julie. I disagree with that assessment. I personally believe that it wasn't a good look for him. But yeah, you know, he gets his surgery to remove scar tissue and has its bones. And when Joe Rogan is like, dude, that looks like a totally different person when he's walking out to the cage.

You're like, yeah, he does. I really, I'm not sure I would have known that was Vandalay Silva. If he wasn't not to fight, like if I saw him on the street, I'm like, you kind of look like Van der Leis Silva, but like maybe his brother, like his less talented cousin. I don't know. And so that's always going to be it for me because whether this is true or not, his career never recovered mentally in my mind from when he stopped being Vandale to. being that dude. So, Rondi, you're still beautiful. You're still beautiful in your own way.

Don't listen to these haters. You're still beautiful. We're all, we're all beautiful, no matter what they say. Okay, we're all, I didn't make one statement about the attractiveness of the surgery. Okay. Simply that he had a face and then he had a totally different face. They are not the same face at all. And it still is a little jarring when you like Google Van Gogh.

Lender-Lay Silva or whatever, and the first things that come up are photos of his new face. And you're like, oh, no, no, not that guy. Let's give me the old face. Give me proper Vondi. So that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. It's a good one. Next category. The, who the fuck is that guy award?

Who the fuck is that guy? This is for the weirdest, most odd fighter that, Van der Le Selle ever faced in his career. I'll be honest with you, boys. I didn't spend a ton of time deep diving on this one. One, because a lot of the dudes he fought, we know him. There are a lot of guys who we are intimately familiar with. And then some of the dudes, I did like maybe try and go look into some of his early

Vallitudo fights, but nobody really jumped out at me there. I got two answers. One, which I believe is the true and rightful answer to this, maybe the most definitive who the fuck is that guy of all time because I truly don't know who the fuck this guy is. I tried. I put a lot of my time prep in deep diving to figure out exactly who the fuck Tatsuya Iwasaki is. And I got to tell you, with all that time, I came up with nothing. If you don't know who he is, congratulations. Neither does anyone else other than I guess his family members. This is a guy that Mandalay fought at Pride, Shockwave in 2002.

This is right after the Mirko Krokop draw. He is already the Pride Middleweight champion. This is a non-title bout against a zero-and-zero fighter who never fights again, who the broadcast doesn't even tell you shit about. It's just like he's got a Kirakushin background, and that's about it. Like that's all the facts we got. And I for the life and he couldn't find any more facts about this young man who fights Van der Leigh at 33, never competes again, gets his doors blown off.

in a minute and 16 seconds, and that's it. Like, I know that Pride had jobbers, and that's okay. I just, I truly don't know how this fight happened at all. So he is my who the fuck is that guy, and I have one honorable mention. Do I, did either of you also decide on Iwasaki, or do you have other who the fuck is that guy's for consideration? How has this fight not been flagged on topology yet for potential lack of legitimacy? see, wow, I did not even, that does stand out like a sore thumb on his, like, you're just looking at his Wikipedia.

This is random name, no Wikipedia. It's like the only dude after he becomes famous that doesn't have a Wikipedia page that he fights. And so you go into Tapology to like see, okay, like sometimes that happens. Maybe he's a pro wrestler. Certainly in pride, you got a lot of, here's a pro wrestler who's going to compete work because people know him to the best of my knowledge. I couldn't even confirm he was a pro wrestler.

for like NJPW or whatever is just, just a dude. And the only thing I can see is on Tapology, Tapology says that there was a canceled bout between Jarrell Venetian and Vandalis Silva at the same event at Pride Shockwave. However, Gerald Venetian ends up compete. He's a Dutch kickboxer who didn't have an illustrious movie maker or whatever. Gerald Gerald still competes at Shockwave

He just fights a different dude at Shockwave So I have no idea how this shook out I don't understand what is going on here I couldn't find any evidence of why this happened He is the most who the fuck is that dude That's maybe ever been We should find this guy Maybe I'll head up Drake Riggs

Drake Riggs is down with Japanese I may see him maybe I'll tell him Can you find this guy I just do an interview with Tatsuya Ywasaki because I can't Like originally I had, um, the first guy I thought of when I was doing this was Alexander Otsuka, um, who is another one of the cans that, that Vandelaide Crush, um, at Pride 18. It was his first fight after winning the middleweight title.

That's at least like a guy who makes sense in the twisted sense of pride because, uh, he was a professional wrestler. And he was basically exclusively a Pride can like they brought him into to fight and lose to people. It was a fight that would not have made sense under normal circumstance. He was two and eight heading into it. But, you know, he lost Igor and Hino and Ken Shamrock and Rampage. He's just a dude that was a pro wrestler that people knew that you could get good wins over and look good. So that fight makes sense. I wanted to mention that fight though because hearing boss and Quadros talk about that fight beforehand is hilarious because they are actually trying to sell this

his real competition. And that's just quite funny to be like, Stephen Claus was like, yeah, but Atsuka is kind of the upset kid. He was two and eight heading into this. He was not the upset kid. He had upset Marco Huas,

which, you know, the connection of Vandale, I guess. Still, it was incredible. So that was my honorable mention, but Tutsuia then when I got into it was like, nope,

that's a clear winner. Do either of you, who did you pick for this? Gie, let's go to you. Who did you pick for the who the fuck is like? I have to answer. The official one is

Dilsson Filio, is his first opponent. First opponent. Only because years later, he was on Big Brother Brazil. And he was like... Yeah. What?

Yeah. Why was he on Big Brother Brazil? The third season. No, no, it's not a celebrity. Okay. Yeah, just like regular Big Brother. Yeah. And he was like, oh, this person is there.

He does that for leaving. He's a doctor. And here's Gilson Filio, who fought by the Tudor and fought by Neresio. I'm so glad. I'm so glad he's here because there's no way. I could have never hold that. There's no way we would know.

There's no way you're I would know. Three weeks into the reality show, he just quit and left the house. Jeez. That's the best answer. He lasts longer on the reality show compared to his fight against Bender C. So that's a win for him. Imagine finding Vendezel Zil for three weeks. That wouldn't be good for health.

And the honorable mention is a fight that hasn't happened yet. Apparently it's going to happen. It was scheduled for November, but it looks like it's getting postponed for next year. Apparently, Van der Leesilver is going to box a bodybuilder called Felipe Franco, who's also a politician in Brazil. They're going to box. next month or this month in November, but it's moving to next year because Franco's schedule is busy right now with all the things that he was elected to do like being a politician.

So, yeah, they're not going to find yet. He's busy because he has a job. Then this match is going to be eligible to be on this award. So he's boxing a politician that is like of his affiliate, like his side. That he, not an opposing side politician. Okay. He's like a friendly. He's very popular as a body builder.

And so people voted for him because why not? This Brazil, people vote for stupid reasons. One. As America, too. If he can build his body, he can build a country. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. And I don't think he's ever said anything remotely close to this.

It would be brilliant if he said that. I would vote for him as well. but his body's fake and maybe his police campaign would be fake too those are my answers key he coming with the heat aka you're not beating that

um so what do you got these are just honorable mentions really compared to the names you guys brought up uh Carl Malenko you know I had to look at up because I'm like I'm sure there's some pro wrestlers in here besides Sakaraba and I'm like Marlonco, sure enough, a stepson of the great Boris Melenko,

WWU Hall of Famer, Boris Melenko. I didn't know who that is. You know, Dean Melenko, you know, Dean Malenko, right? The name, that name sounds familiar. He's the most famous, probably the most famous, the Malenko family, but his father was known as a great trainer. So yeah, anyway, I did not, I didn't even go and watch this fight. I was just like, this is kind of weird and funny.

This is also his first fight and prize. This is his pride debut. It's pretty overwhelming. Yeah, but this is what they do. A lot of, a lot of pro. Listen, they got pro wrestlers and they put them with the M.A fighters. And it was hilarious. It was a great time in our lives.

And I'm sad that that time is over because I feel like there's still a lot of money to be made there. That time in our life may not be over now that WWE and the UFC are part of TKO under the endeavor umbrella. Bring it back. Legitimate. I wouldn't got a haircut today with a Barbara I've never met. And we did the whole, you know, hey, what do you do? And apparently he's a pro wrestling fan. And he was like, you know, I'd love to see.

almost exactly what you just posited. And I was like, actually, it's probably like not that far off. And so, yeah, I wouldn't be at all shocked if we get those things in the future, AK. So that's a weird one. And then I also, again, we didn't, I just didn't know how to fit this in. I feel like his fight with Mike Van Arsdale is, I think we'll know about it. I don't know if it's that popular. It's like, Mike Van Arsdale is a martial, is a solid wrestler and martial artist.

He looks the part of a fighter. He's an ADCC champion, wasn't it? Yeah, if you just see Mike Van Arsdale, like this guy had... I know he was an NCAA champion. It might have been... Had the skills to be a contender in MMA. But I think he was kind of lacking that vicious side. And when you watch his fight with Vanderlay, which again, is sort of a valetudo.

They're both... It's in a ring. It looks like something out of friggin blood sport. And I think Mike was not prepared for the... He doesn't do, like, terribly, but it ends terribly. Like, by the time he's hurt at the end, Vandrlea just ends it by just like kicking him in the back of his head. It looks, it's a horrific like scene, really.

But I just, I want people, it's on YouTube, you guys who find it, I want people to watch this fight because it is the difference. We always talk about Jed between a guy who is a talented martial artist, great athlete, great shape, but boy, when you get in there, sometimes people are just nastier than you. And that's kind of what Mike experienced. Mike's only, his only knockout loss was actually that loss of Vanderlays. So what people go out, check out that fight.

I'm sure maybe people already know about it. But yeah, very random. He went on to fight the UFC, fights of big names. But boy, the first time he ran to a big name like Vanderlea did not end well. That fight really, if you look at any, if you go back and watch any of the IVC stuff, it really jumped out to me like how pre-baked Vandlea was. Like his style was from day one. This is who he was. He maybe just got like a little more physical.

a little stronger, you know, because he had some growing up to do. Certainly didn't get stronger for any other reasons besides just just growing into his body. It's not like his body's doing this. His body's on fake. Yeah, exactly. He was just the same dude from Jump Street. He was just going to throw hammers and kick you and knee you and punch you until you were unconscious. And so, yeah, it's a good shout out for Mike Van Arstale, who has an interesting little corner of the enemy.

verse. Our next category, the Randall Blacks Award. This is for the best single career highlight of Andy Silver's career. This is one where I think the obvious answer is Quentin Jackson, too. Put some through the ropes. It's the number one highlight. I left it out of here because I originally had it in here and I was going to leave it off to Mount Rushmore.

Decided he couldn't do that. Left it here. Because I decided that I'm not going to double up the category. and I want to talk about some more things. We don't really have to even talk about it because we already talked about it. This is where I went for my number one choice. This is where I put Sakaraba through you, okay,

right here because in a world with a Quentin Jackson through the ropes, KEO doesn't happen. You're so mean. This is his best highlight in a world with a Quentin Jackson at Kato doesn't. It is such a visceral image, just the way that Sakaraba like falls back and just Pratt falls on. Almost the head bounces. He's all the way out.

This is, I think, his best highlight other than the Quentin Rampage Jackson. But I want to throw a special shout out from a boy, Yucicondo, because some days I'm feeling more violent than others. Some days I'm like bring knees. I mean, every day I'm like bring knees to the head of a grounded opponent. Like that's let's grow up Peter Pan. It's time to treat this like fighting. And some days I'm like, you know what we also need? We need bring back soccer kicks.

Soccer kicks are great. and I thought a lot watching Vandale fight, like, how is he not just breaking his shin and or foot on the head? Because he is kicking dudes in the crown of the head, like the most dense bone ever. But you know what solves that problem? Just stomping a motherfuckerucker out.

And that's what happens to Yuki Kondo and one of the most vicious chaos you'll ever see in your whole goddamn life is he gets stomped. And he is so unconscious that it genuinely makes you fear for his life. And I'm not, not sure we need stomps. I'm going to be honest. I think maybe bring back soccer kicks, maybe leave stomps out because I watch some things like this. And I'm like, this is incredible. It's probably, probably good that this is no longer part of the sport, though. So shout out to Yuki

Kondo, my runner up behind Sakaraba 3, aka how did you solve this problem for Randolplex? It wasn't hard because this is because I left the Jardine out of the, my Mount Rushmore. This is where the Jardin. Yeah, this is where the Jirdine finished on. It's aside from, of course, Rampage, which wasn't the Rushmore. This is what I think about when I think of that in the fight with Chuck. It's not, it's so, it's so nasty. This was probably also the end of any of people viewing Jardine as a contender. He did get some big fights after, but it was otherwise downhill from here.

And understandably, because I think like, you can't get knocked out like that and come back the same. I call, I know it's, I called it the murder choke chaos. which is not a that's not a common finish you don't see it very frequently and thankfully thankfully that that choke the choke CO had a very different name that we won't repeat for decorum's sake but in the 2000s in the in the in the 2000 forms oh i can imagine yes that was called a very different word before choke i feel like there was a word yes i can think there's a word missing in there and does not need to be repeated correct he is i I had to watch it a couple of times.

It's a short fight, not hard to rewatch. He's just, he's literally, I mean. 30 seconds. Herb Dean is the referee. And I don't blame, but this was when Herb Dean was actually pretty good. And I don't blame him for not stop. I think this was Herb Dean. Oh, no, Herb Dean was the Chuck, the Chuck, the Chuck flight.

This might have been Mark Goddard, a young Mark Goddard or Keith or, I don't know. I remember I wanted to make a note of Herb Dean doing a great job with the Chuck. Steve Mazzagati, shocking. You know what? Maybe that, maybe I shouldn't be caught meant to the referee again. I do think he did an okay job here. Jardine was very hurt on the feet. We've seen fight stop for less,

but it would have been premature. If Steve Mazagadi had saved Jardine's life here, you would have a lot of complaints. It was an early stoppage for sure, for sure. But I almost wish that it happened because he's literally holding him to... Jardine's trying to get away. He's in survival mode at that point. He's just trying to roll out.

He's not doing any offense from the bottom. He's not trying to throw his guard up. He's just trying to roll out. And Vanderlake just grabs him and is like, no, stop moving. I want to punch you. And just holds him in place. And I think, I think maybe four. It's a great way to hold someone's head in place by just choking them with the other hand.

It's maybe. The head can't move if the neck can't move. It's maybe four clean bombs to the face. It's nasty. This is how people fight in movies, right? Like one guy gets advantage and they're like this one. Or prisons. Yeah, the character.

freaks, you know, the main character freaks out and does the like, he's holding the guy like, ah, and like punching the other guy. And you're like, that doesn't happen in a real fight. Like, that's not how real fights go. Someone doesn't just start freaking out and a whole this happens in a real professional fight between two trained martial artists. Highly trained.

High level. High 15-ish guys. It's as scary as it sounds. By some chance, no one has you guys haven't seen this, please check it out. It is legitimately scary. And just again, one of many, many knockouts on this guys. list that has you just like holding your breath like oh my god this that should that shouldn't be

happening that's maybe you've made a compelling argument that maybe i should move this to randleplex and free up and not rushmore spot gee what do you have here are you just going quentin two knees yeah i i get it that's that's the move and it was such an important fight for vandalis silvers name here in brazil because there's a tv show in brazil fantastic who exists for like decades and it's the main TV show on global which is the biggest network in Brazil so I don't know how which show would be in the US like the main channel has this main show so it's the number of war show in the country and they it was like Brazil valetude mme was being treated like always in Brazil like says human cockroach fighting uh cockfighting cockroach

fighting, it's incredible, cock fighting and this, like, these should be bands and stuff like that. And then Fantasco decides to send their, one of their biggest reporters, the most important ones, to Japan to follow Van der Lecellova and Big Nog on that event. And just to show what MMA is, like, and it's showing how big of a star, they both are in, in Japan and so it's just an incredible it ends up in us just this

I don't know it just paints this picture of the sport in a bigger audience because and Benadis Stephen Biginard becomes superstars because of this TV show So that's why this is the one. Totally reasonable. Next category. Right leg hospital, left leg cemetery award. This is for the best quote by or about the fighter. I have a couple of things written down here,

but I want to open this one up a little more. A.K., we were talking pre-show. It sounds like you have one that I left off my left. list, which I'm happy you brought, if that's the case. So fire out your right leg hospital, left leg cemetery ward. I'm terrible at this category. I don't know why. I just don't remember a lot of things people say, which is weird because so much of our job is like transcribing quotes and things like that and listening to quotes and talking about them. And I just, I don't know. They're in one ear. They're in for a bit and then out of the other. I'm a child. So I love the,

I love the, you know, miss speaking says he's talking about. He wants to. He calls out Chuck Liddell. I want to F him, you know, not fight. He says the other F word by accident. Very quickly corrects himself, by the way. This has been, I think, misremembered. I want to fuck Chuck is okay, too generous of a soul to say it,

but by the way, he does not actually say. Which is the first thing I had on my list. Of course. For the record, he does not actually say this is the Luke, I am your father. I think he says, I want to fuck up, Chuck. No, he's, I want to fuck. And then he catches himself. And then he says, he says, like, I want to. He even chuckled. I think he

he knows. you misspoke. I want to fuck. Pauses, corrects. I want to fight Chuck. It has been, again, this is the Luke, I am your father, which is not actually said in Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. He does correct himself. We never quite get, I want to fuck Chuck, unfortunately.

It's not, it's not there. It's not a real thing. But boy, it is a great sort of memory, a composite quote. And that's the first in the key time of mind, so I had to go with it. One, don't tell any forum poster from the year 2000 to 2010 that this wasn't said because yes this I mean this is one of the all-time forum quotes that got fired out and I choose to believe

what's what's the name of that stupid thing when you remember things that didn't happen Mandela effect. Mandela effect there you go. Nailed it. Thanks, Key. Yeah, I choose to believe the the Mendel effect and that you're just wrong, AK, and that he did say this because it's much, much funnier if he did. Yeah, absolutely. Of course.

This was absolutely the first thing. Yeah. I don't know what is. Guy itself like you did as well. Yeah. What else did you have, though? I have that one, of course. That's the right answer.

And the whole, the whole back and forth of the Chile, son and stuff, the one and out, one and out, that's just incredible. Like, Ben, Bende, and he's broken. in English trying to talk to Chilson. And what are you doing? That's just priceless. And there's another one about Chiosan and the whole T.R.T thing.

Like I said, Vendez, it was always just like funny catcher interviews. And when T.R.T was the topic with Chilson and Vito Ber for his longtime rival. And we would ask him about T.R.T. And he always says that he doesn't need TRT because he has enough, like, juice in him to have sex. If he does TRT, his wife would kill him.

That's why he doesn't need TRT. And he was asked about just Sunning doing TRT. And he said, like, quote, if Sonny needs it, he has to use it. Maybe he's a bit down and he's just like, he did this with the finger. Maybe he's a bit down. so he needs it. People say he only has one ball. He's missing one. That's Van der Leiccote. That's Van der Leceiver on Cheers on.

Oh my God. Guys, we were doing so well. We're doing great now. This was such a mature show. And it's always the quotes, like last time we know I'm there. And it's on a silver show. It was like a half of féjezs and the whole thing. Yeah. Always the course.

I'm so glad. I'm so glad I added the quote category because it's, I'm so glad I added the quote category because it's the best because this isn't a serious sport and these aren't serious people ever, okay? This is who we are. And Van der Leysilva at any point talking about drugs is the best. One of my other honorable mentions is a quote, I'm against all, because it's other than Kimbo-Slices, who has the most salient thing that's maybe ever been said about drugs as in a may.

We shouldn't take drugs, paraphrasing. You shouldn't take drugs, but, you know, some of us older. guys, we need some extra vitamins, which is one of the funniest things. Shout out, Kimbo, you're going to get a damn one day. I think Van der Leigh has maybe the best, my personal favorite view on drug use in MMA. I'm against all types of drugs and steroids, but the athlete has the right to have a private life.

He has to be clean on the day of competition. Out of competition, that's his life. So just, as long as I don't piss hot at the stadium, screw you, which is just the best. That's how we should live our lives. I have one more. And this is, this is just my favorite quote that's maybe ever been said. It's not particularly funny, but it's just, I don't know if you can distill this man into a simpler thing.

When asked about his style of fighting, my style is kneeing people in the face, which is just such a succinct. Yep, you got it. You needed eight total words to sum you up as a person. I'm good with that. So that's where I'm at. A.K., did you have any other honorable mentions? That's it. Again, I just had to set that be the nerd and set the record straight on arguably his most famous quote.

I just remember the whole thing, the chills on it and doing tough. They were just fighting there backstage. And that came like months after there was a campaign. from the government against trying to show people that you can't just fight in the streets. You can't fight in soccer games on traffic, stuff like that. And the campaign was like, count to 10, just to relax, you know? And vandalist was one of the famous people that was invited to be part of the campaign. And that's a video of him just saying, like, count to 10, just relax.

And then months later, he's fighting jailed on a gym backstage. getting double-legged next to a training cage. That's incredible. That's awesome. See, we need more of this. We need more people with this sort of specific knowledge about fighters. The real insight. He always brings the heat.

We changed the name of this next category because I've been trying to find one. I may change it after this one, but I like where I've settled now. This is the David Bowie Chich Changes Award for a, If you could change one thing about the fighter's career, what would it be? You should have named it the Vanderlea Silva Chichich to change his award. After all the bullcraft, you guys have been talking about his plastic surgery. That's where you should have gone of it. Honestly, maybe we will for the next damn.

It's not a bad idea. I just didn't have a name for it. And every episode, you know? Every episode just changed. I like that. That's very meta. My answer here. And, Gia, this is going to speak to something you talked about earlier.

this is where I tucked Brian Stan because if I could change anything about his career and I think there's probably a lot of hay to be made here a lot of choices that can be made but I like to use this category for like small things in general like oh, have a better walkout or better nickname. Nope, has one of the best walkouts in M. May history. Arguably the greatest nickname in M. May history as far as I would change

his nickname. That's my answer. We'll talk about that in a second. We're going to lead you into that as I just say, if I could change anything, it would just be that retires after Brian Stan. I don't think there was a better moment to have exited the sport for him. The whole Bellator run was weird. I don't think we needed it.

And just the fact that that win, like you had said, like you said, Guy, the fact that it's in Saitama. Like it's the UFC going to Saitama and that being the thing. And all of that is perfect. I think if, to your point, A.K., if that was the end of his career, this is no doubt about it. Lock in, everybody would have that fight. If I could change anything about his career, it simply would have been that

because that's the only thing that I care about, really. The rest of it all, I'm pretty happy with how his career unfolded, frankly. But, Guy, let's dive into why you think the Axe Murder, which I believe to be one of the best nicknames in all of combat sports needed to be changed. First of all, I agree with everything you said about the Bryant-Stan. That's my answer for another award down the line. But I would change his nickname because that means nothing for us in Brazil, like the ex-murder. It doesn't mean anything?

I mean. You don't have axes and people don't get murdered with him in Brazil? But no one refers to him like the ex-murdered. He has a different nickname in Brazil. Oh, what? What's his Brazilian nickname? It's a cachoro loco. It's just like crazy dog, mad dog.

That's the nickname. It's always been his name, his nickname. No one calls him the ex-murder here in Brazil. Like, no one. So it doesn't make any sense for it. It doesn't say anything for us. So. Kachio-ho-loko.

Yeah, exactly. Wow. That sounds so good. Yeah. So I want to say this, Guy, because I'm actually open to this now that you've made a compelling argument. One, that sounds so much better important. Portuguese than like Mad Dog does in English.

Mad Dog is just an awful nickname. So if that was his choice, no. In the same way that I think like Hands of Stone doesn't sound that good. But like, yeah, exactly. It sounds just so much better. There's one of those, if we're going direct translations, I'm not in. But I think that they're speaking to the same thing because that's what Axe Murder is. It's just a way cooler way of saying it instead of mad dog.

understand him getting an english i think you should just go by kisholoko though like we've i did not i've never heard like we did tankino yeah we've done like other like just going with it instead of translating like baron baron baron's like the baron yeah i'm actually super okay calling guishol loco that's that's a sick name how did we not know this how did we not know this until never heard that until i never heard i've never heard this For it. When I were started about Vanellini and I have to refer to his game, I use the X-Murter, but realistically, I don't know. Wikipedia doesn't even, you need to make an edit on Wikipedia. Wikipedia only says the axe murder. We don't have that. And the next time you have to write about Vanderlay, or if one of us to write about Van der Leigh, can I, can we come to you? Can you sneak in a, say it again?

Cushuolo. Sneak that in, because that is so good. I did not know that. It sounds way, way better. So the one issue, if there's an issue with Axe Murder, and I truly don't, I think it's one of my favorite nicknames in MMA, is that it is kind of a mouthful. It's multiple words, you know. Sure, sure. But it always felt very applicable, but Kashal Loco just kind of rolls off the tongue. I like it.

See you again. More of this specialty show. Amazing. Dude, I've never. My mind is like blown. Well, AK, let's follow it up with your Changes Award. So, I mean, I'm just one with saying David Bowie,

which is why I retitled this, by the way. Never a bad time. Yeah, never a bad time. I mean, he shocked with the name change thing. I was like I was going to fight him, but like that's on point. Yeah, that's on point. And then I didn't want to say hang on past, like retire after the stand fight, because I think for a few fighters,

the answer would be like, you know, don't hang around past your prime. So I don't want to just always go there. So I have nothing. I said nothing. I said, I think the package is perfect. whether Nick again whether nicknames ax murderer for us you know English even Clinton Jackson four again for a lot of these for a lot of these fighters I feel like

retiring at the right time is like the change you know what we should make a category and as because you don't have enough jed of when should this fighter have retired right like that's like that I guess we have elements of that with the you know peak and all that anyway yeah but I say nothing I think this guy has as close to a like in his prime his image his fighting style his quotes that some of the quotes went over I don't think

I would change any of it I don't want to say oh he should have worked on I don't know do more offensive wrestling or no I don't want any of that I don't care about any of that even defensive wrestling a lot of fights was him getting taken down him working out his back for like three minutes or four minutes because the longer pride rounds eventually getting up and then smashing the other person

it's amazing I don't want to change that I don't care I love I I love everything about the the Vandalea Silva package, I wouldn't change a thing. The prime prime bandi wouldn't change the thing. I would just ask you not to to prank the media saying he would he was going to fight Giga Mousassas in Sweden, replacing construction. I do. I forgot that.

That wasn't fun. We stayed at like three in the morning confirming that we I used to work for at the time at the time and we have we we we had a report in Las Vegas. And he was just like, yeah, I'm fine him. I'm going to Sweden tomorrow. And that time and that flight, just he gave and he told her, I've got to be there at the airport. If we want to do an interview, just maybe there. And then just next day, April Fool's. That's a dumb April Fool's, man. Next category, the fator sweater of absolute victory. This is for, if you could have one piece of memorabilia from the fighter's career, what a,

what would it be is my favorite category um it's usually my favorite category it's my favorite this time uh because i have i have one answer that is probably generic uh that would actually legitimate to be cool and it's the pride middleweight grand prix trophy i just love the pride trophies other pride fighters we've done that's just they're great i think we should bring back trophies in m mma just let fighters fight for trophies because it's cooler um and you know belts can just be for belts, but that's one, the other one, the one that I'm the most happy about. And I'm really happy because we get to talk about a fight we haven't talked about yet. Guys, do you remember when Kazahiro Nakamura wore a ghee to his fight and then took the

guy off in the middle of the fight? And while he was taking it off, the commentator is like, he shouldn't be doing that while he is fist fighting Vandale Silva. And immediately as it is happening, Van der Leigh pounces on him and beats him. his brain for the stoppage. It's one of the funnier things that happened in the

2000s. I loved it so very much. I bring it up a lot when I talk about people making bad choices during fights. Like you usually think of those is I shot a takedown

when you shouldn't have. Well, no. Kaz brought a ghee to the cage and then stripped down mid-fight and got clubbed. So give me Kazahiro Nakamura's key from that faded fight because I would put it right here behind me. I would love it very, very

dearly. That's my answer. A.K., what about you? I can't believe we haven't even mentioned this yet, I think, on the show. Does this sound, does this sound familiar? Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Anyway, before we get... You haven't mentioned it. Before we get sued. I legitimately might actually just make Sandstorm the intro to this episode.

Just doing that might get a suit. I may have just gotten a sued right there. So I have to be, we have to be careful with the internet. This may also... We're almost two hours in. No one's going to be here. This is fine. This also made, by the way, made our top 25 moments, like just at any time he came out to

sandstorm. I somehow doubt he owns a physical copy of, a single like a Derrude Sandstorm single because this was early 2000. I just assumed that it plays on Loop in his house. Maybe, but probably it's probably just has an MP3, right? At that point, you probably just have an MP3. You downloaded it, right? Probably.

If he does have a physical copy of Sandstorm that is that, as you said, was, you know, playing nonstop in his house. It's got a lot of spins on it. I want a worn like, you know, a jewel case. I would love to have it. I would love to have his copy. Maybe signed, but if anyone could get a signed copy of Sandstorm. it's it's uh it's vandal's maybe he has vinyl can you imagine van deruva having a vinyl record

i don't know if deru has a it's out there it's out there that's what i want and i bet vanderly has it incredible uh i don't remember if we mentioned this before if this was us talking off air uh my one big gripe with fight pass uh in in the context of vandler silva's career um i i i don't know this for certain, but I'm pretty confident. They simply do not have the broadcast rights to play Sandstorm because you cannot see his intros in any fight pass video.

You're watching him fight Sakharaba. He gets the full grand entrance coming down the elevator in the arena, music blasting, it's sick. And then Van der Leis Silva, arguably the man with the greatest entrance in the history of this sport, you just clip around it. He's in the ring fighting.

If you want to watch, you got to go watch him enter in YouTube. videos and if you haven't do that now. Pause this and go watch a Vandy entrance because with Sandstorm it is electric, it's iconic. It's a great choice. I have absolutely

no notes for you here. This is the best walkout song in M.A. history. It just can't be, and there's a lot of great ones. Ain't know sunshine and Silva, obviously incredible. A lot of good ones. We can run out a whole list. But for me, this has been number one since I first became aware of it that he came walked out to the music

and it has never moved. It has never changed. It's just perfect. The way it builds up and everything. It's just perfect. The vibe, that early mid-2000s vibe, he tried to pass it. He allowed, I remember one of his,

I don't know if you'll remember, one of his trainees or one of his shootobox trainees, he allowed one of them to use it. I remember who it was, the guy who did not have a lot of racism. Yeah. And it just didn't feel right. Like it was fine.

I wasn't mad about it because I knew he had, he had Vondi's blessing, but it was like, this isn't going to stick. Like, it's just not, you really can't pass it on like that. So great song. And if there's a CD single of it and Vanderley touched it, that's my, that's my choice. I accept you. Also, in context of this, like, Sandstorm gets kind of used in other things. Oh, everywhere.

It just doesn't matter anymore to me. Like, if I hear it, it is not, oh, because I'm at a, I don't know if either of you know, this University of South Carolina plays it, like every home game for their football team. It's like a big thing. None of this matters. If I hear it, it is Vandale Silva is about to fist fight a dude. And the rest of you are jokers. So, yeah, sticks with me a thousand percent.

Guy, what do you got? I have two answers. The real one and real one. The first one, and you probably know, which one I really really want. The first one is his Santa Claus costume. I don't know if you have seen that already. Just Google it, Vandil Silva Santa Claus.

There's a... Jed and I are both Fiori-a-Gooleging right now, by the way. This doesn't jump out at my head. There's a photo of him. I think it's a fire. Oh, I do Wandi Clause. Yeah. Oh, I do remember this.

I probably spent like 10 years posting that picture every Christmas. That is incredible. And, uh, and, uh, and, dude, that is a, that's a memory unlocked. If you were a bad boy, Veda, Vennel is coming and gonna stomp you. Yep.

Be good or I'll stomp you. Yeah. That's incredible. But, and, uh, the second answer. And the second answer is, I, I mean, I love cars. And he had this Astor Martin. It was. It was incredible.

When, when, when he lives. in Las Vegas. That's just the U.S. flag on the one side and the Brazilian flag on the other side.

I would just rip that off. Fuck it. An awesome car. Just such a nice car. I would love to have that one. There's a lot of pictures of that. I just Googled that as well. There's only like the one Santa picture.

There's a lot of Fandi and the Aston Martin. Yeah. He loves the car. He would post about it all the time. He loved it. Also, since this is up here, have a note and I don't know where else it would come up. But as I'm looking at these photos of this car, it reminded me,

anybody in MMA history with a better logo? Like, I don't, like the Vandrele logo, like, that is A plus. Dan Anderson has a nice one. Okay, I actually, that's correct answer. Hindu's logo. If you're anyone who's not Michael Bisping is the best logo in my history. If you're Michael Bispeng, it's not and you get like really, really upset about it. which I guess maybe I understand,

but that was a great, great counter key, but still the Vandale logo like, just, dude, it's sick. It's one of the few times where somebody like could get a tattoo of a logo

that's of himself. And I'd be like, you know what? That place. I'm okay with that. It's not absolutely ridiculous that you did it because that logo is good enough to then tattoo on your own shoulder.

next category the habib tony award for the fight that never happened that you wanted to see i did not think this category was going to be as full as it was for me coming in i thought he's got 50 fights he mostly fought all the dudes you ever wanted to see him fight i had like a couple of guys that jumped out immediately but then as i kind of went through this they're just kept being names that i kept adding to this list of fights that maybe at one point were rumored could have happened it didn't and then just a couple of them where i was like i don't know i would be those they would just banged like that would just be a sick fight that could have been cool to have happened the number one for me we don't need to dive into it i'm i went chuck ladle

um prime because we talked all about it that fight in their prime that was the original hobib tony was the original fatal randy etc like that was just a fight and we did ultimately get it passed its sell-by-date. But if we had gotten in their prime and then what we ended up getting was their rematch, that would have been sick. I also made a note here that I would have probably been pretty

happy if the UFC had just kept having them fight each other instead of are you fought, now go fight other people. Just run it back. Like, this is the fight we all wanted it delivered. They're both in this good spot. It would have been okay. So a rematch even after the fact would have been okay. So that was kind of the

number one that jumped out. And then AK to your kind of previous stuff, this is the place that I originally slotted for Crazy Horse. Because I don't actually ever needed to see this fight, but like, you know, why not? It would admit, like this would have been a way more sensible fight than many fights that happened in pride for Vandalis. So those are those are kind of my top two.

And then I have sort of a list of other things at various points of interest. But I want to open it up for. a little more discussion, AK, where are you at on the Habib Tony Award? I didn't want to go down a rabbit hole of just all these great fights that could have happened. So I actually tried not to think about it. The one that always comes on my mind is it's really disappointing. We never got the V-Tor rematch, right? Because that V-Tor knockout has replayed a million times.

They're very young in their careers. Who knows where it could have gone if they had met when they were a bit older. There was probably a never a perfect time, I think, even when they coached against each other in the ultimate fighter, Vandi coached in the show twice, once was against Vitor. And they were supposed to fight in the season, of course, didn't happen in various reasons.

People kept getting injured, I think. So it just didn't happen. It eventually fizzled out. And maybe it would have turned out the same way. I think VTor's, you know, maybe aged a little bit better than Vandrelay did. But it really felt like those two should have fought one more time.

The first fight was so quick. All-time great highlight for Vitor. But, yeah, I was very curious to see how a rematchment goes. So we missed it at least a couple of times. We missed it, and I still wanted to see it by the time both guys were done. Yeah, that was on my list. And for all the reasons you said that it was on your list,

it does feel weird that the time they fought, they were both super young and not even sort of an inkling of who they would ultimately end up being. And then that we know what all happened with Tough Brazil, et cetera, et cetera, which did lead to the second Rich Franklin fight, which is super weird that they fought twice, if you asked me, even though I watched both, of them not that long ago they are it's still weird that they fought twice didn't jump out

that that is another rival of vandalis functionally so yeah for sure on my on my extended list as well gee what do you have here and on that fact a fans don't never forgive maria max for not stopping that when rich flank was fans playing a face planted on the on the round and just allow him to recover in the end of the round. It was just sad to watch. But my answer is like yours is Victor and Chuck the rematches win both in their primes. It's not the same compared to the fights that we saw

create for Victor the first one and the second one, the Chuck and the vanity was fun, but it's not what we could have happened. could have happened when they were born from their primes. And the failure, I would like to fight. I mean, if you're sure a life and way they will always watch, wanted to fight Peter. Yeah. So Fador is the one that I had on the list that I wanted to talk about because I think there were a couple of opportunities that it could have happened.

It just, to me, more so than any other fight that I could list here. It's the fight that is the strangest that it didn't happen just because, I mean, they are the two pillars of pride. You know, they are the standard bearers for pride. Given how willing Vandale was to compete at open weight, Vandale famously replaces Fador in the open weight GP or maybe it was the heavyweight GP. I'm honestly not sure. It was an open weight, I think. So it's the open way one. Yeah.

I know he steps into one of those when, when Fador gets hurt, um, which ultimately ends up to the crow crop stuff and all that. It just, it feels like that would have been a, a good ending for them. And I know instead pride ends up going with Dan Henderson.

That's sort of the penultimate pride show, Henderson versus Vandalay. But given who those two were, um, it was still shocked me later. on that they didn't happen and I ultimately was even suggesting at the end of the run like look fador's exiting let's do fador vandale I know we talked about on the Anderson silver show doing fadour Anderson for fader's retirement fight instead that would have been cool and made some sense

and whatever I had always kind of hope that if this bellator run was going to be something when again I wasn't like a huge supporter of it in the first place that ultimately would be better if it hadn't happened. Why didn't, why not do this fight and maybe we can get some Chuck Van der Le magic even after their their best buy date? So I think I know how that fight goes, but it would have made a lot of sense for that fight to happen. The fight that didn't was weird. Two others that I wrote down on top of a list of like, you know, Gaggard Musassi would have been sick. You know, shout out to you, Gie for Gagard. One that never really had any juice behind it, but does feel a little weird.

Randy Gator absolutely could have been a thing they did as Vanderly came to the UFC late. Randy, after leaving the heavyweight thing is now doing, he fights Mark Coleman. If he can fight Mark Coleman, why can't he fight Van der Lee Silva instead of James Tony, you know, do that stuff. And then this one, while I was doing my research, somebody posted about it on a forum thread years ago. and I couldn't shake it just because I want to see it like I wish I'd seen it now

and it's it's Igor of Chanchin just two dudes who are the most violent insane people just getting after it like that put that fight in an open weight somewhere in like 03 would have been sick would have been amazing so I'm going to think about that fight

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a better quality of price. Oning Sifora. All right, we're coming up on the two-hour mark. So we've got to get moving. Not that many categories left, but we're going to fly right into the TJ Grant Alternate Universal Award,

named after T.J. Grant, who was maybe the best lightweight in the world at one point in time, but got a concussion and never fought again despite having a title shot. The question here is sliding doors moment, the biggest what-if of Vandale's career. Really easy answer for me. Very, very simple. What if Pride never died?

what if pride just stayed alive not what if you won this fight or any of that or what if you were tired earlier it's just what if the UFC never buys pride what if pride doesn't have the various issues that Simo4 ends up having Dream Stage or whoever it ends up owning it at the end of it and it just keeps on going

and instead maybe eventually we get some of these UFC fights he had maybe we get Chucka-Doh etc but mostly this is the point in time where I'd like to address the rumors, the innuendo's suggestions that Vandale Silva and other Pride stars may have been ingesting substances that some people would consider performance enhancing. To that, I say, I don't care because Pride ruled.

And if Pride not dying meant that instead of having all of that weird stuff we talked about at the end of the UFC career where he doesn't drug test and all of that nonsense. What if instead we just get this dude doing this dude things against other guys? I would take that trade. Let him every other fight fight a total can and be juiced to the gills and deliver sweet, sweet highlights to the to the MMA fandom. What if Pride never died? What would the end of his career look like?

It's too big a scope to honestly dive into. but like I just I thought about that a lot going through this like man he was perfect for pride he was an elite fighter great you know his UFC run was I think better than people remember but he and pride were intrinsically linked in a way that I don't think Fador even was I think Fador is probably the number one pride guy in a lot of ways and I totally understand that but I don't I think Fador would have been that anywhere he went I think Vandaleigh was really really tied to to pride in the way he fought, the way he was, all of it. And when he left that and he lost stops and soccer kicks and he, you know, had more stringent drug testing and he didn't get, you know, to fight a pro wrestler every third fight. He suffered. And it would just be way cooler if he just got to keep doing the competing in the way

that he is best because that's the most fun for me as a fan. So that's my big T.J. Grant. Guy, what do you have here? That's a good answer. I wish I had thought about that. That's a good one. I mean, I think we should all think about hoping that pride comes back to life or never died

because the sport, man, the sport would be terrific. But like I mentioned before, like Brian Stan, that's my answer. Like, if you win that five, like he did, incredible one in Japan, it just walks away. There's no drug test against just, running from the gym, like just retires a legend with no asterisks of any kind.

I mean, of course, I feel losses in the UFC, but fuck it, just legend. Yeah. Those losses are fine. Yeah. Those losses were totally fine. Yeah. But the other one is, what if he didn't lose to rampage? I think there was a rampage?

Yeah. He has to fight Shoga in the prime. tournament in the finals because he lost to Shogun, to Arana. He lost to Aronan. Oh, yeah, Shokko's 05. Yeah, and he had to fight Shoggan in the finals.

Yeah. That's the five, everybody wants to see when their team. That's such a good one. But they never fought. That's such a good one. I think Shogun beat Rampage, right, in the same finals. No, Shogun be over him.

Over him, yeah. He beat Rampage in the first. round yeah yeah because he he goes rampage into little nog into overing yeah that's that year is which isn't that's the most one of the most unbelievable runs the sports ever seen o five and then he had to fight chauvin like uh shoggan is the upper comer the prospect and freda sioux is the champion so what do you think they would have fought do you think they would actually fought each other or what do they have done the would would van derly have won like you know in the way that they do the he's the he's the he

he's the primary guy at the camp so you're going to take a dive-ish thing i mean i've talked to a lot of people who were members of shoot bars at the time they never go on records to talk about it but yeah yeah i mean i have confit with a lot of people that they had a plan if they has a fight then it's going to win i mean it totally totally makes sense but uh it's not it wouldn't have been fun but it would have been wild because i can't imagine what the internet streets would have been like there for for that to happen like just a hey here's you know pull a straight up mark hall and they're like i lose i lose to don fry me and don fry aren't we're not managed by the same dude and i'm not trying to give him an easy road to tank habit uh that would have been wild honestly

that might have ruined pride earlier that's a terrific what if hey can't What do you got? Jed, your what if Pride survived, I think may have opened too many sliding doors. What if Pride never died? Never died. You got to say it right. Of course, you got to say it right, all caps. That opens almost too many sliding doors.

There's a lot of doors. We got to go back to the Fador. Anyway, so I'm going to present you a single sliding door, and it's a grim one. This is a grim sliding door. I told you before the show that I did go back to watch his lone UFC title flight. He fought Tito Ortiz, UF, UFC, 20. 25 in Tokyo. It's not a great fight.

For vacant light heavyweight title, it's not a great fight. Tito Ortiz just Tito Ortiz is him, a lot of good wrestling. He actually rocks him. I will say he lands the best strike of the fight. He rocks Vandreley real bad. So it wasn't just like he totally grinded out just for like maybe 20 minutes. Fun fact for those listening when AK told me this before I pulled it up, Tito in a 25 minute fight lands 40 significant strikes to Vanderlays like 17, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. Tito, this is prime Tito. He had Vanderle's number. But what if he didn't, guys? What if Vandrelay just catches him with a flurry at some point? First round, third round, last round, knocks him out, knocks him out, knocks him out, and becomes a UFC champion.

Does he never even go to Pride, Jed? Is there no Pride run for Vanderle? I don't, I mean, this was a point where, like, guys were just saying F it and, like, trying to go over. But I don't know. Let's say, you know, the UFC, and he did, he was competing for both, I think, at the time. He, like, had kind of built the UFC,

most and with pride. So it wasn't exclusive. UFC didn't quite have that like, that pull on people. But let's say they did and they said, we want it, you know, we'll shell out whatever we have. UFC wasn't the booming business it was,

that it is now. And they actually managed to keep him around, or at least limits his pride. What if he has to split his time with UFC and pride? And it limits some of his pride outings. It's, it's, the thought of it is sad to me.

It is very sad. Because like you've said, him and pride are just, just, they belong together. And the thought of him taking like a dozen more UFC fights and that coming out of his pride schedule, it's dark. It's a dark, it's a dark timeline. And I'm glad that Tito took care of business and we didn't have to deal with that.

So we probably end up with Chuck Vandale like way sooner, probably even before either of them get to where they're supposed to be. However, after you mentioned this, you opened doors, you didn't even know you opened AK because you know who Tito Ortiz is. He won the vacant belt against Van der Le, the one that Frank Shamarck famously vacated. Do you know whose first title defense came against? I want to say Metsushenko. No, Metschenko is actually pretty deep into his run. Really? Okay.

His first title defense came against the aforementioned Yuki Kondo. And so maybe without the fear of stomp's and getting stomped the F out, Yuki Kondo can beat Vandale's Silva. And Yucy Kondo's entire career is changed by the, by the virtues of cage fighting versus fighting under pride rules. So you say I open doors, sir. Many doors are sliding open in your alternate reality as well. I'm tucking on my rope, Jed.

I'm talking on my rope. Next category. Dan Henderson H-bomb Award is for, if you could take one piece of the fighter's game, add it to your own, create a mythical fighter with one tool from their tool belt. What is it? We've talked about a lot.

I'll accept other answers, I guess. But like, I want the stare down. I want the vibes basically of Vanderlea Silva, the intro, the intimidation, the coolness factor, the head tattoo. And then the greatest stairdown in MMA history. All of that, all of the vibes of Vanderlea Silva. And I can, I don't need the fighting. The fighting can come from other people and take parts of their games. Give me the vibes, sirs.

that's the right answer. Correct. The other one is like the knees, but the knees can get from any of this year, but from someone else. The knees is my, is the, if I have to have a backup,

yes, because his knees are great, but you can get knees from anyone. I can't get that stare down from anybody else in the history of this sport. So that's, that's the move. A.K.

do you concur? Kind of along those lines, Jed, it's the will to cause harm. Maybe I'm being a little more specific. But you and I say all the time about like, boy, such and such top prospect today,

I will name one soon. I know you know who I'm thinking of. Like had that, like, not just wanted to win a fight, but really finished. No, no, the mean, not even the dog. The mean. Guy, we were getting along so well. But, Guy, is there, is there an equivalent of that in Portuguese?

Is there an equivalent phrase? Yeah. It's someone that has sangue in those eyes. what's that which means blood in the eyes whoa that's cooler again that sounds way better I'm starting to be in Portuguese like just be a superior language

and we got we got that dog in him that's what we actually I did like the first time I heard it before I heard it 90 million times but that will to do damage that will to be reckless imagine if our our dear Mohamed Makayev for example had just a

little a little of that band-dolet spirit in him just a little bit that little like need like i'm in control i'm cruising but i'm going to take a risk here and just mackenzie durn great fighter great martial artist boy i just want to see her go for that kill literally any women's ban to wait jett imagine that the women's band to win her i don't know i know because she actually tried to hurt people and finish that's right imagine anyone in the women in the women's women's band-o-way division had some of that ax-murderer aggression what a different what a better world we would live in so i would i'm not saying i wouldn't be i don't think there is women's bent the way it used to be i'm sorry brought it up sorry i brought it up you i'm sorry i think i think they let

that division go i think they bring it on a lot hey we're getting listen that's that's the toronto main event so you guys back off two women who won't hurt each other enjoy uh next category almost done the brad imes fun with stats award it's an optional category i don't insist you do this because it takes a little more time and i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna shoot you straight i i i saw two that i had and i think with the amount of fights he had you could have a lot of fun here if you sure chose can i can i uh toss one the one out there first yeah absolutely his one submission one submission victory once a bit he he used jiu jitsu a lot that i mentioned again earlier gets putting us back a lot, uses jiu-sitsu to threaten and also kind of just get back to his feet.

Submitted one guy. Unsurprisingly, kickboxing fighter, Bob Shriver. More well-known for training a lot of fighters now, but a good kickboxer in his day, certainly. Famously trained Stefan Shrew. Can we say my favorite fact about Bob Shriver, which, again, another thing I had on the note here in case Bob showed up, a terrific fight nickname in his own right, dirty Bob. It's just the funniest, simplest, stupidest name. Dirty Bob Shab. Great nickname. Great nickname.

Not someone who I'd want to hang out with, but a good, a very good nickname. Not at all. Some guy is going to get you arrested. Oh, like if you're having a party, guys, oh, Dirty Bob's coming. Oh, Dirty Bob. I gotta go. You know what? I gotta go, actually.

I'll see you guys later. I don't want to be here when Dirty Bob arrives. But yeah, if you guys are wondering. The one dude he subbed. One submission victory. 27 KOs, one sub. And it is a guy that he probably should have subs. So there you go. Way to go, Wondi.

More importantly, he never got subbed either. So which kind of is weird. It's not all the way weird, but sort of you would think given the premise with which people placed on not striking with him, that maybe more of those. But no, could grapple just didn't use the subskills

offensively. So two things. One, I just want to note, because this feels weird, but it's true. He has the most knockouts in Zufa history at 19. Derek Lewis's record is currently 14 in UFC history, but that also actually does extend to combine WEC, et cetera.

But given the Zufa purchase pride, you can retroactively sort of put all of that under a banner. Come on. They own it all, so it kind of is there. Now they own the knockouts retroactively. I mean, they kind of do. So if you want to just go like all of that, his 19 KOs and elite mixed. martial arts basically or whatever is the most um so that's pretty impressive but the one i went with instead uh because i wanted to sort of talk about this broadly we've obviously spoken specifically

about it um you know he had those three fights in the ufc in his early career run but like you mentioned a bit sporadic you know they fought here and then did i i vc or whatever pride when he came back and did like his real ufc run because i don't think it's like totally wrong to just sort of put those other three in a separate box. The UFC wasn't what it is today. The weight classes and all that was a little different. When you come in his back career run, ends up with nine fights in the promotion.

Five fight of the nights, two K.O. of the nights, 77% bonus rate. That, like, almost 78%. That's, like, higher than Connor McGregor's bonus rate, who, like, Justin Gachie is, like, the one dude that I could confirm has more because he's at 100% in his 12 UFC fights. He has 12 bonuses. But like other than that,

particularly when you factor in that kind of in the first fights of his, there weren't bonuses to be made. It is, I think we think of his UFC run broadly. Certainly I did at least coming into this as more of a sad thing. Like, oh, he got knocked out a lot. He lost a lot. He wasn't, didn't have his best buy him.

And then you go back into and you're like, okay the Chuck Lel fight fight of the year was actually really really good fight fight of the night obviously Key Jardine fight good the Quentin Jackson three awful I will argue with with Ghee that this was a

good fight or whatever thing you said that wasn't this is the worst since it's ever happened because I hated it at the time because I knew what was going to happen and it did but the pair of fights with Ridge Franklin were competitive and fun beats Michael Biss being in a decent fight the Chris Lieben fight.

I think that that like you said, AK, that's sort of the fight. You would kind of leave off the list if you could, but sort of made sense for who they were stylistically. Kung Lee, fun, Brian Stan, fun. Like, just he came into the UFC and delivered on who he was as a fighter, even if he didn't deliver, you know, by winning championships and doing that, the legacy.

But he was still super fun and just like, awesome to watch. You go back and watch any of those fights. and you can see that he's not the guy used to be, and that he never was the most technical dude, but he's the craziest man in the cage at any point in time, and ask Mike Breeden, sometimes you just got to be crazier than the dude you're fighting.

And like, you watch him fight Rich Franklin for 25 plus 15, 40 minutes, and, like, Rich Franklin is using a jab and trying to be smart or whatever. And occasionally, Vandal is just, like, screw your whole family and just chuck some of, at him and Rich kind of gets hit and doesn't know what to do. And it's awesome. So I just wanted to shout out his UFC run, which I think is way better than we remember it, at least from an entertainment standpoint, if not from an X's nose, wins and losses

standpoint. I have two stats. The first one is the real one. And the second one, you choose to believe if it's real or not. The real one is he has the long. unbeaten streak in pride history. Sure. 20 fights.

There's a draw. No contest in there. But it's incredible. If you look at Fader, they're only 14. So it's amazing. And then the unreal one, you just... Also, it should be 23 because the loss to Marcotte is bullshit. Yeah.

And the other one is when... I think like, I don't know if it's like 12 years. years ago, stuff like that, we did a story for Tatami magazine. That's such a weird fact, linking Vanderilva and Big Nov. And they fought on the same night like a dozen times before that. I don't, I don't remember how many times. I mean, they would have fought in like all of the final conflicts probably. When one fighter wins, the other one wins.

And one loses, the other one loses, always. Oh, this is sick. Always. It only changed, I think, was UFC 110 when Wendray beats Bisping and Big Nod loses to Can Velazquez. Just got run over by Can Velasquez. Yeah, that one changes the story. And we did a whole story about it. And we did talk to the, I don't know how to say anything like this.

Like, those people that like read the stars and stuff like that to check their their birth dates and all that to see the connections. astrologists. Yeah, astrologists. Exactly. Like, what's the connection between the two? It was a fun one to do it. Dude, that's insane. I'm about to go down.

You got to independently check this out now. I have to find here. We did that going into the night Vendal lost to Rampage. And the same night, Big Nog lost Frank Mier. Frank Mier. Yeah. Yeah. There's one asterisk there because I think there's a tournament or stuff like that that one of the two fought twice.

So one, one, and the other one won and lost at the same night. But I don't care. There's a win on both sides. Yeah, we won. So that's a six step. See, this is what this category is for. Now or what if should be what if the UFC only booked Vandale to fight on the same car? is nog.

I would have been sick. It could have been the world champion. Yeah. I mean, just a book, Wendez Silver against the best fighters in the UFC, and Big Nog is just a job. He can't. The worst.

Now when the U.S. He was going to win, so I don't care. What if the night Big Nog beats Tim Sylvia to become a champion, Van der Leas fighting for an interim light heavyweight title? What is.

Oh, man. So many things. Sean, Ferris Award for actor who should play in a movie that's named after. Sean Ferris, who plays Jake Tyler in the cinematic masterpiece that is, never backed down. I have one answer. I don't feel great about it, but I don't feel bad about it.

I went, cliche as you can be. I took the low-hanging fruit of a well-known, established Brazilian actor, a man who, I think, has the range to both be, as Guy has pointed out, this wonderful and engaging dude outside of the cage, but a mean SOB inside of the cage. I'm basing this entirely off his work in Narcille. Marcos, but give me Wagner. A younger Wagner, obviously, we got to get there, but

just a terrific actor. Close enough facially, certainly close enough to facially to old Vandale, maybe not to Vandale 2.0, but, and I think he can do the menacing thing if he needs, like, when called upon, but can also just be the outside the

cage guy for him. So, I want Wagner Mora, AK, a category you have been pretty strong in his What do we have? I'm pretty something, that's for sure. Sometimes strong, sometimes completely out to lunch. I generally veer away from like, let me find someone who like resembles the character because

it's hard to do. I mean, fighters are very distinct looking and sometimes you can find a good, I think, I still think like Florence Pugh and like Rhonda Rousey's one of the best ones, both acting level. I mean, that's a terrific one. Right? It's like it has to, that's the role of a lifetime. This time I think like, and the other, the other, the other note.

what I'll make is I try to like you know if it's a bit's a not an American fighter pick someone who is from their country the same country or at least speaks the language I did not do that this time um I went with someone who geek like I went down the fast and furious well here uh as you know I there's only two pop culture things I've engaged with in the last like 20 years uh fast and fear as and game of Thrones so like all my pictures come from these these movies slash shows one of those is a lot better for acting talent to I don't know what you mean Well, Fast Furious, obviously. So I went with, I loved, Fast Fier's Nine is not a good movie, but I love the flashbacks.

And I love the guy who played Young Dom, a New Zealand actor named Vinnie Bennett. He's 30 or 31 years old, I think. So he's right in that age range where he could play a younger Vandalé and then you can age him up and do. So, you know, bulk them up. There's vaguely facial structure similarities, but that's not my main concern. he has like an intensity about him and I thought he did such a great job playing a young Dom slash

Vin Diesel without doing like a parody and I would love to see his take on Bandarley but probably bear to go with the Brazilian actor but I went out I went outside of the box here looking at Vinnie Bennett right now there's a jaw it's a jawish

line maybe maybe I'm not going I'm not going to be sold on this gee do do better than AK. What are you going to have? A good answer. I mean, it's, you don't need anyone special. We just need someone bald that can do a mean face. I went the same round with Fass, like, to make AK proud and just like Ving Gizio, Jason Staten and stuff like that. I don't know.

You just need to be strong, bald and do me. I accept Jason Statham as an answer, honestly. I'm... That would be really good. Look, it follows up. the long history of just putting British people into non-British roles and pretending like it's fine. Like we did on Chernobyl, it's fine. I'm very much open to Jason Staple. Not to go off too far of a tangent, but what was like, what was the reputation of the

guy they got to play Jose Aldo? Was he a big star before? Did he become a big? He was a big. Oh, he is an, okay. I think he was that movie. It was another actor first and then it just took years. to do the movie and they just change

to another one. Okay. Okay. So that's an established guy. Okay. Yeah, he's popular. Yeah. Okay.

And that's the whole movie is like another, a lot of famous actors doing MAA fighters like Marcus Galvon, Marcus Loro, former Velas champion who's like a close friend to Josealdo. The guy that does in the movie,

he's six foot six. And Galvon is like a tiny little dude. It's a phantom way, right? It's like 135, right? That's the best part. Amazing. That's the second best part of that movie. The best part is Josie Alder doing a showtime kick.

The showtime kick. Why not? Why not? Why not? Just make things a little more fun. I love that. Along this note, I'm all in. I just pulled up more photos of Jason Statham.

He's got a terrific mean face. I'm super comfortable with us. Just whitewashing this man. way through it's fine it's totally fine uh the cole conrad career change award it's our pen ultimate award named for cole conrad who's out there selling milk somewhere instead of being the bellator heavyweight champion for this is a first it's a first i did not choose an answer here i intentionally said none i do not believe vanderly sylvo could be anything other than a fighter i remember way back in the day in the form days uh there was a

thread, you know, sort of that kind of actually was the genesis of the Cole Conrad thing of like, hey, what do you think these guys might be doing? Or like, and then that sort of turned into a, who are the most natural fighters have ever seen in like pretty unanimously? Everyone was just like, I don't know, I don't know what Van der Le Silver would be doing other than fist fighting people for a living because it truly doesn't, I can talk myself in anything. I talk myself into Anderson Silver being a dancer or Carlos Condit owning a coffee shop. and being a barista or like chuck ladle being an accountant like that all makes sense to me i don't think there's no job you could tell me that anderson silver or the vandalis silver could

do other than fist fight people it is just he is maybe the definition of a fighter when i think of them as far as that so if you guys have an answer love to hear it because i intention was like nope i don't have one could have ever done you guys know again i like to go out of the boxing is not an obvious answer. So I think there's a world where a young Vanderle, a young impressionable Vanderle is, is, you know, given a chance to get a proper education and really get in touch with his inner self. And he becomes like an award-winning author or poet. I think this is like, we've known some of the quotes we read today. I'm like, there's hints there of a beautiful soul who in another world could have expressed himself

with his words and not with his fist. So I'm going to go, Banderle, Silva. I don't know, maybe he wouldn't have a nickname in this other world I'm painting, but, you know, is a brilliant wordsmith. And we still talk about him, but just in a different regard. Do you talk about a lot of poets in your day-to-day life? You big Keats guy? You know, he's okay.

Top, top 30. Shell Silverstein, that more, your speed and poetry. Who does all this? The Dirty Limericks. Who's that? I have no idea. I sort of think Anonymous is the name of the management. That's my guy.

That's my favorite guy. Which brings us to our final category of the evening. The, Look at me now! Leon Edwards Award for the best single moment of the fighter's career. The apex of Van der Leigh-Silva's career, of course, named after Leon Edwards, and his emotionally charged speech after winning the U.C.

Walterweight title over Kamar Usman. Don't down to me. I couldn't do it. For me, boys, we're going back to where we started, basically. I think it's just Rampage 2. Yeah. I'm open to other things. That's it.

Yeah, you know, defends the middleweight title. This is the peak of his run. Still has some good moments after this, but everything after that felt like the downslip. He never got to that high again. Literally gets atomic butt dropped in the next fight. He does. I mean, that's it. And there's no coming back from that.

yet. There was, like that was a rivalry. It only happens after that. Yeah. That's true. The arena rivalry happens. Like,

he's still got good moments. And, you know, if he comes out and beats Mirko Krokop in the heavyweight grand prix semifinals in 2006, that could have been it, but it's not how it worked out. Also, A.K., I didn't,

I kind of didn't mention this because we were talking about it. I'm actually totally okay with the butt drop. Being the victim of the butt drop, being a low point in any man's career, I totally think that's the case. Because if Mark, Mark Hunt's butt drop in me, I'm going to think that that's probably not a high point for my career.

Yeah. And it's replayed for the rest of your life. Like, just watching that over and like Boss Rutan just laughed when it was happening. He's like, look at that. The rampage, like not just the dropping in the rope is amazing. The camera when he runs, when he hits the opposite turn buckle and gets up right into the cameras, gets his face, roars like an absolute demon out of hell. It is just you feel, oh my, it gets you pumped every time. Like the energy from that moment is palpable.

Even all these years later, you feel the energy from that moment. And that's like this guy is the dead like the most, the baddest MFer in the world. You know, I mean, no one's going to beat this guy in a fight. So I love that. Yeah, for sure it has to be his peak moment. Yeah. I'm glad we all agree on that. I kind of thought that that would be a pretty clear choice.

Which brings us to closing up shop. We're done here. So all of us will, we'll say our final thoughts on the wonderful Vandali. Silva and AK, I'd like you to lead us off. Anything you got to say that didn't get mentioned in the time, now is your opportunity. See, farewell to the wonderful Vendali Silva. Yeah, it's probably going to sound a little bit like my thoughts on Fado. Really, when we talk a lot about these pride era guys, this is kind of how it comes down to

is that they feel like guys from an era that is so alien to this, you know, the modern and May fan. And this is one of the main reason we do these shows. I think I want to kind of talk about where he stands in the all-time list because I remember when I was coming up and hearing all the stuff of Vanderle and really getting into his career. And I saw a couple of all-time best fighters lists. And he wasn't on them. It was like top 25, top 30. And he didn't make the list.

And I was confused. I was like, here's a guy. He had this huge winning streak, was beloved in pride. And he didn't make. And this was like not, this was a long time ago. This was not, this was before like sort of the, you know, some of the modern grates we have now. I was very surprised he didn't make some of the short lists. But now that I look back on it, like, I'm kind of okay with it.

I kind of get it. His career was not defined by him necessarily, you know, just dominating the best of the best guys. Like I said, he has these rivalries that most of which he came out on top of. But he has a lot of big fights. You just, again, just look at his record. A lot of big fights he came out on the wrong end up. He didn't beat all his peers. He, he, the series with Dan Henderson, people remember Dan Henderson knocking him out.

They don't remember the first win. And that's okay. That's okay. That's kind of what makes him special is his reputation, his aura, and his performances and his highlights. You mentioned all the bonuses he got in the UFC are so much more important than necessarily placing him on any sort of pound for pound list. Because if we're just talking the pound for pound violence list, I think he's indisputably top five. And that's a hell of an achievement in this business. Especially since, again, you know, a lot of fighters have come on have come since.

but few have matched his aura and his ferocity. And I think you'll be waiting maybe another 20 years before you find someone else that can move ahead of him on that list. So, yeah, this was very fun to do. It was really fun to do. Guy, close shop. I mean, the only thing that I can think about Vanilla Silve is, like, his,

Veduley as a fighter is the reason why we love this sport, like because of people like him, just going there and just say, fucky to your brain cells and try to murder whoever's across the ring or the cage. Like, you can all say anything about fighters who just grind and take downs and score points to decisions and retire early. And people say, here's the greatest of all time. Like, they're not as exciting.

They're not, like, Van der Sey Silver is the reason why many of us got interested. to MMA and we stay in the M. M.A. Because if he came in and we just like, say, watch a boring fighter, just might never come back. But coming here and watching Van de Siva do his thing, we don't lose like AK said, like many fights he lost. But he was fun as out to watch. And he's one of the reasons why this sport is incredible. He really was exactly that. And so I'll close this up here by saying this. The purpose of this show when I sort of originally pitched it, and I mentioned it a lot, is just let's talk about dudes who are dope,

you know, let's talk about guys like Vandelae Silva who kicked ass. But if there's a secondary purpose, for me, it's always been to kind of help re-center our perception of fighters who have maybe lessened some, particularly as fans keep coming in and who never had any real connection to Vandali Silva. I mean, considering the Vandalé Silva's last fights in the UFC were in 2013 a decade ago, and then even his Bell-Tor fights were five years ago. There are a whole host of MMA fans who never got to experience him.

And so kind of the point of doing these things is helping contextualize those fighters and give them a little bit more sense of history for newer fans. And episodes like this one end up being some of the most fun ones I do because I, I think I had a really good understanding and sort of perception of Fanderlake coming in. Like I was there for it. I loved him. I think of him fondly. And yet even after diving into it and watching a lot of his pride run and most of his UFC running,

kind of just re-familiarizing myself, I left way more impressed with him than I remember being. Because in my head, I think of him, you can't help but be colored by the end of career run. and by the numerous losses and the way that when he lost, he lost bad, dude. Like, Mirko Krokop kicking him in the head, a fight which he has specifically said, you know, the worst laws of his career, the worst performance, the time he felt like he was the closest to dying, the rematch with Kro Krop, which we didn't talk about a lot in this show, you know, those weigh on you. But I go back and I go back to a thing I said at the top,

Fenderly Silver walked so Justin Gachie could run. This dude is the original king of violence. He is, like you said, Ghee, the guy who got people into the sport. You know, every time he stepped out there, whether it was a ring or a cage or a Valle Tudor fight in Brazil, he was coming to deliver violence, sometimes at his own expense, but always to the benefit of the fans. And that's the one that sticks out the most to me in my memory, but there is another one that I kind of remet doing this. And it is, in doing what he did, he was also the best fucking fighter in the world. Like, there was a period of time where maybe he wasn't the pound for pound top,

his pound for pound top three. Did he get some softballs and some cans and a little bit of help from pride in the way that they did business? Yeah, absolutely. Not all of his opponents knew they were fighting him like months in advance or whatever. That's a real thing that happened. You can't take that away. But even with that, he still,

beat the breaks off everybody he fought for five years. That is a really hard thing to do in this sport, even if things are breaking your way like they did for him. And if the history of watching action fighters like Donald Soroni and Justin Gachi and all these dudes, Carlos Condit, guys who were awesome and super violent, teaches us anything. It's that it's hard to be super violent and be the best in the world because being so open to it opens yourself up for violence.

Anderly has his own quotes about saying sometimes he fought his style at the expense of himself that he put excitement and enthusiasm and the way he fought over, you know, maybe self-preservation or things that could have been better for him, but just who he was. He had a great quote that I left out of the quote section because I wanted to mention it here where he summed himself up pretty well of I train all of my fighters to fight in a way that a promoter has no choice but to bring you back. and that I mean that's who that dude was he was electric every time out and the fact that he did that while also being one of the best fighters in the world at the time is it's remarkable and so yeah maybe he's not like the best fighter of all time maybe he's not even in the top 20 aka like maybe that he's just not on that list there there aren't many who are more legendary than him he is iconic in a way that fighters today really aren't and in a way that I

means more than being the 21st best fighter that's ever fought in MMA he's being, he is an icon and if you go back and rewatch his career like I did, it over delivers on your expectations even if like me you had pretty high expectations

and that's, that's the best compliment I can give to anybody because ultimately that's what this is all about he's what this show is about. So Van der Le Silva, to you I say, damn, you were good and thank you. Thank you for the memories.

And apparently you're going to box. I didn't know that that was happening, Guy. Gotta be honest, don't know how I feel about him boxing. You know, it's fine. I did think as we exit this, boys, I thought,

Van der Lees Silva, we could have had him in BKFC if his career came just a little bit later. Not now. I don't want now him in BKF. I'm saying that his career came a little bit later instead of doing the belly, tour thing, his post-UFC run would have been BKFC to like mix it up with Alan Belcher or something.

And that would have been sick. Oh my gosh. Gee, can I hear that Brazilian nickname for Vangelo one more time? Hashohloo. So good. So good. It's really good. All right.

That does it, everybody. Another episode of Dam is in the can. In two weeks, we've got another one coming out. And this is normally where I'd tease who it was. But spoiler alert, we've had to change our plans. because we were, some of us were making some assumptions about things with UFC 295 happening and Steepin Meachich was about to get his ass beat by John Jones and then retire and we were going to take advantage of him retiring to memorialize him,

even though I don't particularly like him as a fighter. And then all that goes away. So it's not Steepen Meitch in two weeks. I don't know who it is. We've got the rest of the year after that mapped out. So I got to find who it's going to be in two weeks. A couple of options have sort of jumped out at me. And we'll figure it out.

But until then, I want to thank A.K. Lee. I want to thank you, my cruise, two of the very best in the business for joining me on this wonderful journey. And fellas, we kept it under three hours. I'm so proud of us for doing that. That is a rarity these days. And until next time, love y'all.