MMA Fighting - Dan Hardy Reveals 'Nail In the Coffin' With UFC After 'Weird Exit'

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Dan Hardy speaks with MMA Fighting's Steven Marrocco following his departure from the UFC, explains what the nail in the coffin was that led to his exit from the promotion, when and where he hopes to have his long awaited return to competition, and more. Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Whether you rent out your building, represent a condo corporation, or own a cleaning company, we make insurance easy to understand so you can focus on the big stuff, like your small business. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage. So you confirmed your release. It came on Tuesday. I think you made the request, while you've been making the request for the last week or two.

You do an interview with submission radio. And if I'm not mistaken, one day later, your letter shows up. Yeah. Quite a timeline. What do you make of that? Well, I mean, you know, it's just nice that it's been resolved so quickly. I think sometimes the best

thing to do is to speak out publicly and it just kind of brings attention to a situation but you know I mean the thing is the UFC have got so many things going on like it's easy for them to just kind of tune me out and just kind of get on there in the background asking for my release and that's just kind of what it felt like

it's felt like that's you know since my job with the UFC's come to an end to like to get a hold of anybody and get any kind of you know any kind of response is proven very challenging. So I saw Diego's release letter a couple, about a week ago. So congratulations on an incredible career that has spent over 16 years and 32 bouts with the UFC. Your dedication to the sport of mixed martial arts and the organization is greatly appreciated.

As one of the early stars of MMA, you helped shape the sport into what it is today. We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. And thank you for all the amazing years and battles you have given us. Does you say anything like that? No, no, absolutely not. What is your saying? Not a great deal, to be honest. Where is my laptop?

Let me grab my laptop and I'll just, I'll tell you. Mine wasn't even interesting enough to properly read. I just kind of scan Reddit and forward it to my manager. I was more surprised that I've got it so quickly more than anything. No, I did. I'll clear your conversation with show of Shelby. It's our understanding. You've requested to be released from our own.

promotional and salary rights agreement with ZUFA LLC fully executed on July 5th, 2012. So that's when I would have signed my last contract. July 12, what year? Sorry, sorry, July 5th, 2012. Wow, 2012. Oh, no, there was a nice paragraph towards the end. I didn't read it fully. with your accomplishments both in and out of the octagon,

you have contributed to shaping the sport of mixed martial arts. It's what it is today. While also being a global ambassador for the sport, we wish you nothing to be the best to look, and much success going forward with all your future endeavors. And thank you for your dedication to the sport of mixed martial arts and the UFC. Reading that, how do you feel about that? Kind of weird, to be honest.

I mean, I've always got this perception that my career within mixed martial arts, martial arts would come to an end and it would kind of end with the UFC. You know, I never intended on fighting past a UFC contract. You know, when I was on that fourth fight losing streak and I was considering stepping away, I wasn't thinking of going anywhere else. I was thinking of going to study in philosophy at university, a complete different directional change. So I always kind of felt like my career, as far as professional mixed martial arts, would start and finish with the UFC.

But then admittedly, I also didn't expect it to continue on so long after me being a fighter. I mean, I'm not really considered the idea of me being an analyst or commentator. So, no, I'm very thankful for that time and that opportunity. But it's weird because now I'm still very much in professional mixed martial arts. Do you want to be? And, you know, I love commentating and analyzing and training fighters and stuff. But now I'm like right on the outside of the UFC for the first. time in well I mean forever before I was unknown to the UFC and then I was up in the

UFC contract from 2008 and now I'm just and I'm just kind of not a part of it at all and like you know with with efforts to you know properly exclude me in every way possible which feels really hard as well because I don't feel like any of it's warranted yeah well that I mean you you've you've you've spoke at length about the circumstances around it do you feel like it Do you feel like it was a clean break, given your relationship with BT Sport? Like, do you consider yourself detached now? No, not really.

I mean, I'm still covering UFC events. And, you know, we're doing like fight companion type shows now and stuff. So I still love the UFC. I still watch most events. I'm not working alongside the UFC anymore. So I'm not watching the events live every Saturday night, Sunday morning like I was before. and I treat it a bit more, a bit more like, you know, a bit more like a fan now, I suppose, but I'm still producing content around it.

My relationship with BT is a weird one because, you know, when the disagreement happened between myself and the USC employee, BT were there. You know, my colleagues were there with me. And they weren't, as far as I understand, you know, I've spoken to them, and they have not been spoken to about what happened. So, I don't know, it's just the whole thing's just kind of. of weird. I've still got a good relationship with BT, you know, Adam and Nick,

the fight disciples, still got a good relationship with them. I just don't work with them anymore. But, you know, the clamped down on BT came from the UFC's side. It was basically, I think the UFC saying that they want credentialed me and allow me in the building, not even to work for BT. But then at the same time, you know,

the press release that was released that spoke for BT did not come from BT. You know, BT never intended on stop him working with me. So it was almost like like it was, the news was released to kind of pressure beating into following suit and and shutting me out as well. But then after that, you know, it was, you know, a couple of my sponsors, they went

after a couple of those and, you know, just, oh, my raptors were denied credentials for events, even though they've been doing great work, just a lot of vindictive stuff that wasn't really necessary, you know, especially with no kind of clarity of actually what's been said about me. And because of, because I know what happened, I feel like. like a lie's been told about me. And that's the bit that's frustrating. You know, to be continuing on outside of the UFC

and to be finding my own ways, it's quite refreshing. I'm enjoying the, you know, the uncharted waters, to be honest. But it still burns the fact that I've got this awkwardness with the UFC that I don't feel like is necessary. Well, one of the reasons I wanted to ask, uh,

being the troublemaker that I am, uh, potster, um, you know, what, whatever you want to call it. Do you feel any more comfortable with talking about the exact circumstances, this conversation over this opportunity withheld? I mean, I can tell you the details about it.

I won't mention the individual's name, but not for any other reason other than that, a respect to the person, but they're head of PR in the UK. And I've worked with them for a number of years. from when I was signed as a fighter all the way through to my being an ambassador. And we've never felt like we've had a bad relationship, but I've also never approached this job as it was a job. I've always approached it like, like this is my life and I love it.

So it was, you know, sometimes my frustrations would be, people were kind of dragging their feet and doing, you know, the necessary work. And this was a person I'd complained about before because I felt like opportunity would be amiss, not only for myself, but for other fighters in the region. You know, young fighters that the media are trying to get a hold of, but the UFC office in the UK is not connecting them. And all these opportunities that would be amiss that were provided to me when I was a fighter.

It wasn't like things had always been like that. Things had gotten considerably worse. You know, when I signed in 2008, I had interviews every week. I was busy. I was talking to everybody that was there. Now these guys are not hardly getting any media attention at all. And the disconnect is, you know, the PR team in the office. And that was that was my frustration, which I had mentioned a few times.

But it seemed to me like, it seemed to me like that had, perhaps my complaints had not gotten further up the chain. In fact, it had actually gone back to the person that I maybe complained about because their move towards me had changed. And, you know, I think the Herb Dean situation didn't help either. But obviously, the UFC couldn't terminate my contracts after that because it would look really bad, you know, firing a commentator after standing up for fighters' safety.

So I think that was kind of a nailing in the coffin, to be honest, because of how much control they need to have over those live events. You know, they don't want me, I'm a bit of a loose cannon. Something else that I said, which may have, you know, led to this situation was, you know, when I spoke to the UFC after the Herb Dean's circumstance, I said, you know, please don't forget I'll work for mixed martial arts before I work for the UFC.

and I think that kind of that kind of burned a little bit in their minds because you know when you work for the UFC they want you to be UFC through and through you know and I'm a I'm a grassroots fighter and I've got I've got you know fighters that around me all the time people that have come through the sport and have had the same struggles and you know are dealing with issues now that you know that prolong you know in mixed martial arts career So, yeah, I just, I think I was a little bit too unpredictable in that seat, perhaps. And I think after that moment, you know, there was possibly waiting for an opportunity to kind of push me to one side. And then, you know, after that moment, after that incident, I actually signed a new contract and came out to the next fight island.

But then all of my media are obligations. You know, most of the first questions were the situation with Herb Dean. and again I will speak in my case and you know reinforcing my perspective on the circumstance and that also I don't think was looked down upon very well because then the following Fight Island I was taking off all media responsibilities you know so I mean I think it's a combination

of a few things and I think the situation in the last Fight Island I gave them the opportunity to get rid of me because of you know the Herb Dean thing and a couple of other things Sure. What do you make of the shift in attention or the shift away from UK and European fighters over the, you know, the timeframe that you're referring to in terms of like you said that they were, you know, they were packed with media. There was a lot more attention, you know, paid on your, and you just felt like those opportunities weren't being capitalized on. What do you make of that? I just think it was a general downsizing. I think that's what it was. So when I first signed with the UFC,

there was a UK office, a dedicated PR team. And there was a whole machine in the UK working and we were doing regular events. You know, we were pretty much the second, you know, the second home for the UFC over in the UK. We had a good, you know, a good pool of talent.

But we had a lot of media attention. Like I was doing like catalog shoots for UFC things in like general UK catalogues. I was speaking to the tabloid newspapers and I was writing for, you know, fitness magazines and stuff like, and we were all doing it. You know, it wasn't just me.

It was all the UK guys. There was a lot of attention on us because we had a good PR team behind us. But then, obviously, you know, with the sale of the UFC and everything became downsized, you know, the head of the UK office was gotten rid of. And that job was passed to someone that worked in Vegas,

which obviously, there's a disconnect there. So then the highest ranking people in the UK are not actually heads of the region. They're people that work at head of PR or whatever else. And, you know, the UK office was closed and then everything broke into two and security and logistics went one way and like social media and PR went into the IMG offices. And I don't know. I mean, there just seem to be a lot.

Maybe there's like tension or politics going on in the office or something, but it just seemed like such a kind of, I don't know, I don't know, not a lot got done and it was frustrating because I was used to hearing from people regularly saying, hey, you speak into this person this week or, you know, can you come to this racetrack and do this shoot with such and such? It was a steady flow of stuff and me being an ambassador, you know, I had a, you know, a monthly retainer that kept me around to be doing those kind of things. And especially since the, since the Herb Dean thing, But even before that, you know, from the sale of the UFC to IMG, it just seemed to, it just seemed to drop off, like, effort and attention towards the fighters and promotion. It's an odd feeling, loving something so much and feeling like it doesn't love you back.

It is, that's the way it's felt to me when the UFC has been withholding or denying or. or non-communicative. Does it strike you the same way? Yeah, it's horrible because, you know, I love the UFC as a fan, and I love mixed martial arts, as a lifelong martial artist. And it's like,

all of a sudden it's, it's corporation. And it's, and it's tainted everything that I love with greed, you know, and it's all about, like, okay, I mean, here's a good example, right? because, like, I consider that I thought towards the, towards the end of the golden age of mixed martial arts, you know? Like, for me, the golden age was those like early, like UFC 30s, you know, the early BJ Penn, Jen, Culver, all the way through the ultimate fighter. And then, you know, just when we start to break into the UK, into Europe.

And for me, like, a big part of it was the distinctive personalities, the backgrounds, the stories of the fighters. Like everyone seems like clones of one another now. You know, at one point it was a free market. I had an earate record sponsor in me. I had a bunch of smaller companies that had a bit of a marketing budget that could get behind their favorite fighter. And then that sponsorship tax came in. And then everyone had to pay, what was it, $50,000 or $100,000

to just sponsor a UFC fighter. Right. Which meant that then there was a pool of maybe 10 sponsors left that had a considerably reduced marketing budget. that was then spread out through the roster and everyone kind of got watered down a bit and everyone lost a bit of cash you know and then there was

the next stage where the banners went and it was just this constantly squeezing the life out of it and that's the that's the bit that hurts so much is because like these guys coming up now that the idea now is how do I protect myself and play the game and make the most money and you know you look back at the old the old Nick Diaz Robby Law the kind of days

like they were there for the for the love of it, for the honor of it, for the privilege of standing in front of a crowd and showing what you're capable of. And I don't know, I feel like it's moving away from that a bit now. And to be to feel like, you know, to certainly feel like I'm like I'm actually pushed away from the USC feels really odd. It's really odd because it's something that's been such a part of my life for so long. It's, it's, it's a different world.

That's the best way I can say it. Well, like, a relic of the past, it's like, is we have to sacrifice these things for the benefit of the future. Are we really benefiting, though? Are we really forwarding it? Is the sport really at a different level? Or did we, is this just a cash grab? Like, when I, well, the thing that I think about is, like, when I hear fighters saying, I'm ranked number nine, this guy's ranked number three.

if I beat this guy, he's campaigning based on rankings. And, you know, given what we've seen over the last couple of years of the way they match, make some fights, I don't know how you can look at yourself in the mirror, honestly, and say, if I do X, Y, and Z, this will all go in a linear fashion according to plan. It just changed so much. Do you think about that at all in terms of,

of the way that, you know, like you said, you know, fighters being cloned and stuff like that. I think of like looking at the younger generation coming up, seeing where we are now and kind of like how they're talking and be like, you know, the road has gotten a lot harder in so many ways. That's not really a question. You share your thoughts. I'll stop talking. no I do agree I do agree you know that I think that I don't know I just I just think that

there was a point where there was a point where the fighters were were celebrated and and looked after and cared for and you know and respected in a way that I just don't think they are as much anymore you know and you know that of course the sports grown in the numbers of the fights on the roster etc but I think there are still fighters out there that they just want to fight in front of the crowd that shout their name and they want to show their skills. They're not interested in chasing the belt. But like the idea of not being in the rankings if you're on the UFC roster is not an option. Like you've always got to be chasing towards the belt.

And if it gets the stage where you're losing to, you know, I mean like Cowboy got his ass kick this weekend. Look at Diego before he got the disqualification, get his ass kicked against Pereira. Like they're not matchups that need to happen. We don't need to see those. And it's, people, people, people, people say the word promotion, but they don't really examine the word promotion.

And that's, that's the thing that's become more apparent to me over the years. And, you know, I have an up and damn relationship with the UFC because when I first signed the UFC, I thought we were one family within mixed martial arts and we're all walking towards the same thing. And those speeches that they used to give after the way-ins, like, even, you'd, You'd be walking out of the room with your arm around your opponent going,

come on, do, let's give a great show tomorrow for the fans. Like, that's how it made you feel. But then, like, as soon as, like, as soon as I fought GSP, I realized that I'd be kind of hustled along because there was a lack of contenders. I got that fight. I got, I got, looking back now, it's embarrassing what they, you know, what I was paid for that fight and what I gave or what it cost me to fight. You know what I mean?

but then I look at my run after that and they go okay co-made event against Carlos Condit who it was either it was a win-win for them because if I won and I'd won in front in front of my home crowd and if he won he was the next name to put in front of

GPS as a new contender then I got I come off my first knockout loss and they put me against Anthony Johnson and it was like I just kind of felt like all of a sudden I was now being cycled out do you know what I mean and I'm going to fight anybody and everybody and that just

it just kind of, I see that more and more now. I see it, you know, I see guys, well, this guy's got a name. So we'll either, we'll either use him against the young fighter and build that person up. Like, let's bring Ken Chamrock out of retirement and having fight Rich Franklin because no one knows who Franklin is, even though it's one of the highest ranked middleweights in the world. And we need a contender. It's that kind of feeling.

And I just, I wish there was some kind of, some kind of care for fighters like Cowboy and like Jim Miller and Clay Bueida and Diego Sanchez, like they still want to fight. We still can celebrate them on the top stage of the sport, and they don't need to be in this shark tank with all these young guys trying to keep the head above water. But they're a commodity that's being used to promote the younger generations of fighters. And it puts everyone in a weird situation where no one really wants to be doing that.

The young guys coming through beating these former legends that you still look up to. It doesn't feel good for either party. And, you know, that's something else that I feel could be, you know, it could be better dealt with, I think. It would be a better look for the sports as well. Sure. Were you calling out like Matt Brown and I can't remember the other guy that you called out, were you calling them out before this drama happened with Herb or after?

Herb and the PR team? Like, did the call out's a function of, like, you sensing there was a change and wanting to move in a different direction? Or was that just a natural thing that came up? You wanting, you calling out Matt Brown and wanting to restart your fight. I mean, you've always kind of wanted to. You've said it several times over the years, but it seems like there was a little bit of a shift there, and I was hoping you could put that into context for me. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I, I, I, you know.

I'd had conversations, I had conversations with Sean and with Mick, and I'd said, look, you know, these are the guys I'd like to fight. You know, and I'd listed the names off. I mean, you know, Adiaz, I don't mind which, largely the same person anyway. You know, Matt Brown, because that's who I was originally matched with when I was pulled out from the fight back in 2013. Carlos Cundit, conned it because I own one back, you know?

Like, they were the names that I gave them, and these are names I've been talking about for a while. And I had a couple put back in my direction a few years ago. Like I had Joe Loz on suggested to me, which I just have no interest in fight. And same with Jim Miller. You know, I've got to, if I'm only having one or two fights, I want to want to fight the guy. You know, and there's a lot of guys on the roster. I literally just don't want to punch Joe Loz on the face.

It's as simple as that. And as a fighter, as a contractor, I should have some choice in that, I feel. Especially at this point in my career where you know for sure I'm not. contending for a belt. And I've said that all the way through. I don't want to be fighting these, I don't want to be fighting people that are still in the mix because I respect the mix enough to know that I'm not in it, you know, but I also, you know, like either let me fight someone else that's not in the mix or let me go with the circumstance. And literally up until last week I was under contractors at Faitil. And I mean, that's what I even spoke to day in there

a couple of times about it. And he just kind of laughed at me like, like, wow, these are actually these words. Why would you want to do that? You've got a job for life. So then like, you know, when I'm being sent home from a fire island, I'm fired up and I'm angry because I've not been heard and I've been, you know, the whole circumstance has been misunderstood. I'm like, right, okay, well let's put me back in my natural habitat then. You know, if I'm not natural in this habitat, let me put, let me go back into my natural habitat. I called out Matt Brown. He accepted the fight. He wanted the fight. I spoke to the UFC directly. I, I, well, I said, I I sent Sean Shelby a direct message and I said,

I want Matt Brown and the Carlos Condor and then I want Nick Diaz. They're the three that I'm looking at. And he messaged me back. He said, I'll get back with you next week. And I've never heard from him again. And then like a few days after that, all of a sudden Matt Brands matched on the most distant card in the future. There's not got any other matchups on it yet. It was like July.

They put him on a card in July. it was just weird it was like you just kind of like you just kind of stick in a middle finger up at me now you know so it was like immediately i knew they weren't working a match and if they were going to match me they were just going to you know it was going to be a a fight that just wasn't at all appealing to me and wasn't beneficial at this stage in my career so this is after the this is after the herb dean thing but before the the PR thing somewhere in the middle Yeah, I mean, I had conversations I'd have conversations a few times

I mean, they were they were keen on me announcing my comeback at UFC London, the one that was cancelled Oh So that was that was a conversation That had been had as well Between myself and a couple of the UFC Exects

Did you say that already or is this breaking news right here I don't remember here No, I've not said that before Because it never got anywhere You know, it was a conversation that I mean, I mean where was that I was in Uruguay, the earlier, sorry, late the year before that, and they were like, oh, you know, we could break you here in Uruguay, while you're here on the desk.

And I'm like, like, Uruguay or fight nine, like, it just doesn't make any sense. Hey, what do you got against Uruguay? Uruguay is good of a place. What's the, what's the beef with Uruguay? Because I remember when Bisping got put in the Hall of Fame in London, and the crowd went up. And the idea of announcing that at London was, you know. Fair enough. So you were going to be, so they were going to announce it at that, at that fight card.

Or it wasn't that, was it that far along? Did you have an opponent or they were just like he's coming back? No, no, no. No, no, they were just, they were going to announce that was, that I was going to fight again. That was the plan. Because I think there was, obviously, the London card, it was Liam and Woodley. Yeah. obviously they were planning on doing another card later in the year

September time which was what I was aiming for I mean that's what I was keeping in mind which is what I said to the USC when I contacted them this time like late summer it is when I'm looking because I want to make sure I'm you know I've been training but I want to make sure I lay a good foundation before I go back in there you know let someone try and kill me wise why's move um So the time, like, you know, again, the time between the request via the interview and your release letter comes, you don't even finish the letter. What's going through your mind?

Are you like, yippee, like, are you texting, you know, Bellator? Are you just saying to your manager, cast the net out? Are you going into grieving, a combination of the three? Yeah, I don't really think it's quite sunk in yet And it still feels kind of weird I mean, you know Because I always I always thought that You know

Whenever I visualised myself fighting again Apart from day dreamer of fighting in pride back in the day My visualisations of fighting Was always in the UFC In the octagon You know, it's like second home to me now I spend a good 20 minutes in there Before I every commentary kick

And you know just kind of walking around and feeding the canvas and stuff, it's, you know, it's a very comfortable place for me now. So the idea of fighting somewhere else, it seems like a bit surreal at the moment. But, you know, the more rising and one and Bellator and stuff I watch, yeah, I mean, we'll see what happens. I know that people are aware and have been in contact, but at the moment, I'm not really thinking about it too much. And until someone comes to me and says, what about this date and this person, then, you know, I'll kind of stay out of it

and let my mind as you deal with it. But the opponent seems really important to you. Yeah, yeah, because I've got a, you know, I mean, it's my last training camp, my last two, three training camps ever. I want to fight, I want to be up for it. I want a challenge, you know. And I'm not even necessarily saying it would be MMA.

I mean, I would box, I would kickbox. You know, my options are open. You know, I've never boxed professionally, but I'd be open to it. But, you know, keep boxing loitai professionally. You know, that was what I was doing before I'm a mate. But then, you know, I quite like the one and rising rule sets, you know, downward elbows and knees to the head on the ground. I know it might seem a bit heavy for some, but, you know,

I am the outlaw and I do kind of fit in those environments where you're strapped. So I don't know. I mean, you know, I guess it's not really sunk in yet. I've been doing bagwork with one gloves and with rising gloves on and just kind of see them out. And I've got a red set and a blue set of Belator gloves as well. So I'm kind of, you know, the idea of it, you know, is, you know, but I'm also doing a lot of bare-knuckle stuff

and boxing gloves stuff, so kind of keep my arches open, right? You're auditioning, you're auditioning via equipment. There you go. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, is there anybody that you want to fight that's out there that's a name that you respect and that is in one of these promotions? You know, I mean, I've been so focused on those three names in particular. And I mean, I mean, Condit, Brown, and Diaz were the perfect three. And, you know, if you want to throw a cowboy in there as well, even though maybe not after his last couple of fights, you know, like, yeah, I feel the same.

I'm just kind of, you know. And it's the same with Diego. You know, Diego's a free agent, but would I want to fight the guy now? I want to give him a hug and try and help him in the circumstance that he's in because it seemed like a shitty one.

It is. I can assure you. Yeah, yeah, it seems pretty rough. But, you know, like,

if I'm daydreaming, like, I could see me fighting someone like Gomi and pride in the rising. You know, that would be a lot of fun. I know that Oki's moving around in weight classes in one, but I don't think I'd be able to get

answer to 1.70 to be walking around five week. If I was fighting in one, I'd be, I'd be coming in at 185, which I know is well to wait. But I'm 2.10 at the moment. So that gives you an idea of, you know, where my, where my weights at and what I'm looking at. I need a bit of time to get myself back into fight shape. I'm into deadlifting cars at the moment. Yeah. I mean, if you watch Tyson's interview, he talks about getting back into fight shape, not just, you know, good shape, but fight shape and how much of a shock to the system it is. Do you anticipate that kind of barrier to overcome? Yeah, yeah, I absolutely think so.

I mean, the good thing is I kind of train myself, you know, I've got a few Pavlovia responses from back in the day to certain songs and music that I can use to get my brain switch back on. I've also got a lot of frustration, which helps. You know, a lot of frustration from the last, you know, the last sort of 12 months or so, you know, and, you know, for as awesome as Fight Island was, the experiences of being out there, like every single one of them was more stressful than the last.

You know, they were just, they were really, there were really intense environments for whatever reason. It was just crammed in and shit up your nostril every day and weird sleep patterns and, you know, clubs on the other side the harbour and it was just it was just you know it's I feel like I feel like like it'd be quite cathartic to get into a training camp at this point I just need something to get my teeth into I need a date to aim for and I can't daydream a date up in my head I need to go right there's an event on that day that's when I'm aiming for and I'll start working towards it but the

eardine's just been delivered today I've got a new plunge back hanging up in the gym we're moving in the right direction but I'll I'll take my time and take my time and I feel like, until I feel like the time's right to start putting my foot on the gas. And just to clarify, do you need to clear your current medical situation with any of the commissions via a specific meeting or have you talked to anybody about getting cleared in the past? Where do you stand with the regulatory side of things? There are only a couple of commissions that would require me to have an ECG. And obviously, you know, with the fact that I was pulled out of the fight, I mean,

My results were never submitted to the California Athletic Commission. They never made it out of Vegas. So I don't really know where I stand. I think it's literally California and Florida, the only two that I would be required to pass an ECG test. So there'll be other people on the roster that would have similar problems if they were, I mean, funnily enough, I've had a few fighters reach out that are experiencing some of those problems.

But it's, I mean, I went to, when I came back to the U.S. Because when I was in Vegas, I was having the tests for the fighting in California against Matt Brown. When the first lot of results came back and they said that they wouldn't be able to clear me to fight and I had to come back for more tests, I spoke to my doctor in the UK, the guy that's known me since I was since I was a kid. And he said, don't do anything. Don't have any surgeries, any treatments or anything. And come back here and get tested because, you know, the healthcare systems in both countries are very different. and one's much more money orientated.

And I did feel like it was a bit of kind of came out of nowhere, you know, assessment, given the fact that I'd been so healthy all the way through my life, and my heart's never been an issue. I've always been asymptomatic, even if I do, I have all Parkinson's white pattern. So anyway, long story. So I spoke to my doctor, he said not to do anything.

The UFC wouldn't clear me, and I kind of was stuck in limbo for a few months, and then they got me into commentary, While I was back in the UK, I went to see a cardiac specialist, a guy that runs at a sports cardiology clinic. And I took all my test results from Vegas. He put me through the same tests, and he found no evidence of any problem.

So I have all of those more recent tests with all of the clear evidence that I'm absolutely fine and perfect to compete. So even if it came to a circumstance where I was put on a card in California, they required me to have an ECG and an anomaly showed up. I have a cardiac specialist that can explain what they're reading on those, on the ECG tests. I mean, you've got to think, I mean, you know, medicine is such a broad field.

The guy that was looking at my results was not an expert on the electrical pathways of the heart. He was just kind of reading what he was, you know, interpreting. The specialists that I've been to see said there's absolutely no problem at all. and I have the paperwork as clear. Yeah, when it comes to doctors and getting cleared, your mileage may vary, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the other thing as well.

You know, I mean, you know, I turned 39 in a couple of days. But I've only ever had five stitches in my whole life. I've been cut once. I've never had any major broken bones. You know, I've been knocked out twice in my professional career. And, you know, maybe a couple of times in the gym. But I do not have my life. you know, especially when I look at someone like Cowboy or Sanchez,

and I'm like literally, they look like they've been run over by a truck and put back together with glue. I feel so fortunate that I'm not in that circumstance. You know, aches and pains and those kind of things, of course, but getting old now, you know, and I've run up a few hills with a few logs on my back, so I deserve a few of those eight, you know. But I'm relatively young for my age, and I do recognize that. Is there a chance that your future might not?

not include fighting? I mean, like, that you might, that somebody might offer you a commentary job and you might continue to do what you do. Basically, what I'm getting at is, why go punch people and be punched in the head at 39? Well, partly because I kind of feel like my career was never, never, never, I never showed the full expression of my skills. I was always kind of, I was working through various different cycles and the point of which I was pulled out kind of felt like the beginning of I kind of felt like the point

where I was pulled out in the Matt Brown fight was kind of the beginning of the next cycle like if I go back and watch the Amir Sadala fight like the Dwayne Ludwig was saving my skin and keeping me on the roster the Amir Sadala fight was okay I mean three takedowns in this fight and I need to not

struggle with the nerves of fighting in my hometown they were the main things to get over that. Matt brown in California, I was going to light him up. I was going to make it a real bloody mess and stop him. And that was the beginning of the next stage of my final run, which was in my head already. So I don't feel like I've got loads more fights in me. I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm not, you know, I don't want to be fighting into my 50s. But I feel like they're like I've got two or three fights against someone of this, of a similar standing to me in the sport where I could,

I could show the person that I am the martial artist that I really am. You know, you've got to think, I mean, I've watched hundreds and thousands of fights over the last eight years. I have absorbed so much. My understanding of mixed martial arts has increased so much.

It kind of burns me a little bit. The last memory of me is that performance against Amir Sadala, which was, it was just, I feel embarrassed by most of my fights, in the honest, because of how poor they were. you know, I was ragged and I made bad decisions.

I'd just like to show that new it, that final expression of myself before, you know, I'm perhaps too old. Got it. Well, I don't know. Me personally, my memory of you changed. It's not of the fighter. It's of the guy who's a great commentator. And that's a good thing in and of itself, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But I'm not a commentator at the moment. I mean, I'm a contractor that occasionally steps into a commentary booth from time to time. I'll be probably working the Cage Warriors event coming up in June, but that's because I love Cage Warriors, not because I consider that to be a part of my job. You know, I just want to be there and love Cage Warriors.

But, you know, I mean, the reality is, you know, if one of the organizations approached me and was like, hey, you know, come and step onto our commentary team, I'd love to because I love being operating, no, cage side for, or cage, ring side, whatever, for, you know, light electric professional fires. I mean, it's, you know, it's an absolute buzz. But I'm open to all kinds of things. I'm working on my next book at the moment.

And that's, that's taking up a lot of brainpower, as well as running the full reptile channel, which, you know, it keeps me stuck in research about half the week. Yeah, man. You're on the media grind now. How does it feel? Not fun, right? You know, yeah, I mean, it's up and down, but I've got a great team around me, and I'm just

fortunate. I mean, I'm able to, you know, to do what I do what I do. You know, I sit in my house and watch fights and break them down and train fighters and run my gym. I'm in a very, very fortunate position. I'm not, I don't even, I don't even miss what I had with the UFC. The only thing I don't like about the circumstance is the weird tension and friction between the two of us because I just don't feel it's necessary and I feel like it's based on lies on that end you know yeah well go easy on that wide guy speaking of old guys he's pretty old so go easy on him