MMA Fighting - Daniel Cormier Talks Stipe Miocic Trilogy, Eye Pokes and Why He Will Stay Retired After UFC 252

Episode Date: June 30, 2020

MMA Fighting's Damon Martin speaks with Daniel Cormier ahead of his heavyweight championship fight with Stipe Miocic at UFC 252. "DC" discusses the highly anticipated trilogy fight, why he will stick to his guns and retire after the bout and much more.  Follow Damon Martin: @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Damon Martin here with MMA fighting and his UFC 252 fast approaches in August. We're going to talk right now to one of the participants in that highly, highly anticipated heavyweight title fight trilogy, Daniel Cormier. What's up, buddy? How you doing? I'm good, man. How's everything with you? Good, man. It's a long morning.

You know, a long morning. And I had a, I had, like, massage and therapy. And then I had, I ran, I went and ran on one of those Ultra G treadmills. And now I'm just getting home, so real long morning. Oh, well, I appreciate you taking the time for me as always. No problem, brother. No problem. So, I'm good, man.

I'm good. Obviously, I'm excited. I know it's been a long time coming, but the fight getting scheduled finally in August, man. It's like a weight off the mind that we finally got this date and everything's set now. Yeah, I think it's necessary for us to fight, you know, and put this thing to bed. You know, Steve and I are two guys that have done a ton of sport, and it was very important for us to fight this third fight, so this rivalry doesn't end that one-one.

Yeah, absolutely. Was there, I mean, I know that, you know, the fight schedule now, I saw it would look too much in the past, but was there ever a moment where you're sitting there thinking to yourself, man, like, the frustration started to boil over, are you just like, because I mean, I understand it. We're in the middle of a pandemic. Obviously, everything going on it's kind of weird time, but I know it had to get frustrating because it was coming up on basically now it's going to be almost exactly one year since the last fight. You know, there was frustration, but, you know, man, I always think when I was frustrated as to trying to get the fight scheduled, I just kind of thought back to last year, you know, and what he went through. You know, I'm sure there were times where he was very frustrated with why we weren't scheduled and why it was taken so long and why this was this and this was the other, you know, so I'm sure he had frustration, you know, so you just deal with it, you know.

Things don't always go according to plan, you know, so, you know, it's nice to get the fight scheduled, but yeah, that was some frustration. But I always try to keep, I always try to keep. I always try to think in terms of, like, you know, I dealt with this. He dealt with it. You know, it's no different. Yeah. I remember talking to you and Steve, on the day the first fight was announced,

and you guys were doing the ultimate fight, I remember talking to you and him both, and both of you very friendly about it. You know, you actually talk to each other as you were signing the contracts. A lot of, you know, there was a lot of, you know, joking around, but you guys seemed like you were friendly. Then you did the reality show, and then the first fight happened. And it seemed like afterwards,

things got a little chippier, and I understand that's going to happen. You knocked him out and you took his title, that's part of it, and then you're leading up here, I'm not saying things got personal, but things got a little chippier. Have you felt that with Steve? Is that just the natural business of when you fight a guy twice and there's just that natural built-in rivalries?

It seems like, you guys went from being kind of almost like buddies to like, now there actually is a little bit of a rivalry here. Well, I think anytime you fight somebody three times, you can't expect a relationship to stay the same. You know, I think that's what I learned, this incidence, you know, we're going on

fight number three. If this, if our relationship stayed the same, that's, that's absurd. You know, you can't, you can't share an accident with a person two times and think that things won't change a little bit, you know, so, yeah, you know, I feel like

it's different, but, you know, I can't imagine how it wouldn't be, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's why I am with this whole, well, are you and Steve Pes still as friendly as you wear, it's like, well, Well, no.

But how could you expect this to be as friendly whenever we've fought two times? Yeah, absolutely. We've been in the octagon now for 25 minutes, essentially. You know, like, yeah, this relationship isn't what it was back then. Yeah. But at the same time, this is one of those things where, years from now, when it's all said and done, I'm sure you guys will look back on this rival,

no matter how it plays out, and, you know, look back with that fun, is I'm sure you could do that with some of your college wrestling opponents and some of your Olympic wrestling opponents. Like, that's how, you know, competition is competition. You can look back years from now, and I'm sure you guys can be friendly about it. Yes, for sure. No.

You know, I believe that, I believe that that's the type of, I believe that that's the type of, I think that's what this rivalry will be known for, opposed to some of my other rivalries, you know. Like, this one can be based in a lot of different. different things, competitiveness. And even though it's bad in the moment, you know, it can go back, if not exactly to what it was before, it can go back to some sort of normalcy and some sort of, you know, a respectful

relationship. Yeah. It's funny you say that, you know, I always joke with you when we talk now. I do my best. I never bring up the name John Jones for that reason because you're not fighting him. You're not going to fight him. It's kind of pointless. But it's funny right before we got on the phone.

I saw an interview with him and he talked about you. And he was like, he's just like, D.C.'s an outstanding guy. He's a great father, great representative of the African American community, a great commentator. Didn't say a bad word about you. And I was just like, you know, I know you guys are never going to be friends, but there has to be a mutual respect between competitors like that at the end of the day. And I know you're never going to be best friends with John Jones, nor what I expected to be. But even that, like, there's that mutual respect.

I feel like when you go to battle with a guy like that, no matter how much you like him or dislike him in the moment, there has to be a mutual respect when it's all said and done. You know, it's just a, it's, it's just, you know, it's just, the reality is, you know, when you're in the octagon for, I mean, again, this guy I was in the octagon with for almost for over 40 minutes, you know, like, if you can't respect a person in that capacity when you've done that with them, then who can you respect? you know so uh i do i do respect jones in terms of what he does as an athlete um what he's he's been able to to do and um all those things but the reality is you know like like you said you know

it doesn't have to be a friendship and it won't be so but yeah you know i do respect him as as a competitor i never said i didn't you know that that's where it gets all confused you know when they talk about this thing between him and I. It's like, I never not respected him as a competitor. It was just all the other stuff that I had problems with. Yeah. It's funny you said that because every interview we ever did about it, you always, you're like, you know, he is one of the greatest if not the greatest

world. Like you always, in terms of fight skills, you always compliment the guy. It always kind of got lost in the messaging because there was such a rivalry, but you always, and you've never spoke badly in terms of his skills, never once. No, no, no, I never, I never did that. because, you know, if you're an honest guy, which I try to think I am, you tell the truth. And you can respect the person for their skills, you know, and I do, I do respect, I respect those skills. Yeah, absolutely.

With that being said, D.C., obviously going into this one, a lot of the conversation, and we've already talked about this before, but a lot of the conversation is going to go into this being your final fight, this being your retirement fight. It's been a long time coming. I know you've kind of, you've known this coming, you've known this was happening, but where is your mind at with that, you know, going into this fight? Do you put it out of your mind completely because you still got to focus on the fight? Do you allow that to motivate you saying, I know this is the last one, I want to go out on top of you? How do you do that? Because you're a very smart guy.

I said that to your first interview years ago. I said, man, one day you're going to be doing commentary because the way you break things. down is pretty, you know, pretty incredible. So you understand all aspects of the sport, mental and physical. So how do you wrap your head around that going into this fight? You know, I just, I just kind of think about it, but try not to put it at the forefront. You know, when you start thinking about, when you start thinking about retirement as a whole, you know, it's like easy for me, especially with the job that I have to look to what's next, you know.

I just got an offer from ESPN to work, you know, full-time, not for the UFC, but for ESPN, the company. I haven't signed it yet, you know, but we got an offer, you know. I've gotten a ton of interest from the WWE and a lot of other things outside of mixed martial arts in the broadcast field. So that makes it very easy to look for what's next. So I try to stay in the moment, focus on what I'm doing right now, and hold on one second. Sure. Yeah, I just try to like, you know, obviously it's there, but I want to try not to look forward to what comes next

because what comes next for me is not like most people. You know, I've got a good job in a good future, and, you know, you never know. I expect the third part of my life. You know, I think your life's in acts. You know, Act 1 is me growing up in Louisiana, and Act 2 is wrestling, and then Act 3 is mixed martial arts, you know, and I think Act 4 is going to be,

me spending time on my family and having a TV career. And I believe that act in my life may be, you know, it may exceed everything I've done in sport. And when you have that to look forward to, you don't want it to be at the forefront. You know, it becomes too comfortable and to, it comes to appeal. Yeah.

You know, on the flip side of that, though, you know, there's, you know, talking about everyone saying this is your final fight and you want to go out on top, and that adds a certain level of pressure. but there's a flip side of that with Steve A, too, isn't there? Because if he loses this fight, you know, he doesn't get another shot at you. We don't know what would happen to the heavyweight title at that point.

You know, when everyone talks about this being your retirement fight, there is a lot of pressure on him as well. On both of us, you know. I don't even think the pressure comes from retirement or anything. I think the pressure comes in what you just said. It's the third fight, you know. It's the fight that ends the debate. You know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of stake in this fight.

You know, not only the heavyweight championship of the world, but also whoever wins his fight is going to be remembered as the greatest heavyweight of this era and greatest heavyweight U.S.C. history, you know, so this is a big fight. This fight has massive stakes. Yeah, absolutely it does. Absolutely it does. Now, I've seen on Instagram and I saw on your ESPN show talking about, you know, kind of getting back to your roots in your preparation.

for this fight, getting back to your wrestling. I remember watching the interview you did a couple months ago on USA Wrestling, where you were talking about kind of getting back to that. Can you kind of give me an idea like where, you know, where, like, where that shift went in your head where you felt like you had to go back to that, that kind of grinding mentality, that wrestling mentality. I mean, it's something you've done your whole life, but you did kind of make it a point as far as, like, why you wanted to do that going into this fight.

Well, I believe that in every fight, my biggest advantage will be in that area, right? I wrestled at the absolute highest level of this floor. And if I can't exploit that, then, you know, I'm in trouble. And I think it wasn't as much a conscious decision as it was me being able to do it again. If you think for a second, there was ever a time where I would have preferred not to have had that grinding style of training camp. That's crazy. I just couldn't do it, you know? Last time I was still, my back was still so messed up, I could barely wrestle.

I wrestled, I wrestled for a couple weeks leading into the fight. So when I took him down, that took so much damn energy because I hadn't done it. You know, I was doing things that were so unfamiliar. You know, training camp last time was a lot of times spent boxing and just trying to push, push, you know, as much as I could in the boxing. So to be able to do everything again, it feels great. Would you say in terms of health, in terms of your body, in terms of your preparation, like, would you say this is one of the best times you felt going into a training camp to get ready for a fight? I think going into the training camp, there were still some little things, right? Like, you know, soreness, you know, being fatigued because I hadn't done anything.

Karen, you have to wait and caring the extra quarantine week. You know, there were a number of things that weren't up to par. So I started early. You know, I started training back in Jacksonville, which was, you know, six and a half weeks ago. You know, like, I just started really early. So at time this whole thing is done, it'll be over a three-month training camp, you know. I got ahead of it. But, yeah, you know, I feel good physically.

I just love the fact that I can get in a wrestling stance and go hit shots and go wrestle something that I couldn't do before. And that's very comfort in preparation. Yeah. I was listening to your interview you did with Jim Rome. I think it was last week. And you were talking about, you know, all the time you spent with Steepay in the cage, you know, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've. you know, won the majority of that time. Outside of that fourth round in the second fight,

you obviously knocked him out in the first round of the first fight, and then you won the first three rounds of the second fight. And you had dominated a lot of that fight until that fourth round of the rematch. So I could understand if you fell in love with the striking and said, you're just going to go out there and want to strike with him. But you're telling him ahead of time the Curtis Blades quote, you're like, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to wrestle. But do you feel like that is smart,

or do you feel like, you know, in terms of like your preparation, like you want to be able to mix that things into the things you didn't do before? because you did, in a large way, outstrike him for almost the entire fight. No, the reality is for me to just go away from striking with me, it would be a huge mistake. Because I've shown over the majority of the fight that I can outstrike him. So I'm not going to abandon all my stand-up, you know, but I do want to make wrestling a focus.

Am I going to be as wrestling heavy as Curtis plays was? No. I'm not going to just be charging that, I'm trying to take it. him down. I'm going to be using my stand-up to set up my take-downs. And then the takedown showed themselves, I'll get him. But if not, I'm more than confident in my ability to box and kickbox this guy. I think the reason the fourth round became so easy came to land those body shots is because I was tired. I was making a lot of mistakes. And I was just boxing it. I wasn't kickboxing anymore, right? I wasn't kicking. I wasn't kneeing. I was just straight-up boxing.

you know, I'm not going to be doing it this time. Yeah. Now, I know when Habib was in San Jose getting ready, you guys had kind of shut down the gym and we're pretty much just focusing on him. And I know California started to open up again, but in terms of your training camp, like how are you doing your training camp this time?

Because obviously, you know, just like Habib, this is a huge fight for you. So is it kind of the same thing where you guys are kind of shutting things down and just focusing on yourself? Or how is that working? So I go to A.K.O. on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we just try to keep the gym's set up.

separate, right? So there's other guys in the gym, which are very few. We just kind of stay in different rooms. We try not to be just all over each other. Little guys are in one room, heavier guys in the other, and most of the heavier guys I use for my training. You know, but then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Friday and Saturday, I train at home. I built a gym inside my garage. I got a son in my backyard, cold plunge. I have a had a bare chamber now. I have a cage. I have heavy bags, aeronines, cardio. equipment. I've got everything I need to supplement my training on those days that I don't go to the gym. Yeah, absolutely. Now, one aspect of this fight that hasn't, I haven't really talked to you, I know I haven't talked to you much about it. When I talked to Steve A before the rematch, I went to Cleveland, and I interviewed him, and I asked him, I said, you know, there was a talk about some eyepokes in the first fight. And when I asked him, he said, next question. Didn't want to address it. Didn't want to talk about it. And then after the fight the second time, obviously we know he had the eye surgery and that's been a big part of the delay

in this fight. So I'll ask you, DC, because I know you've never been a dirty fighter, you've never been that way, and you fought guys with Ipochew in fights. Obviously, we mentioned, you know, John Jones, unfortunately that's been one of his, you know, one of the things that's kind of hurt him or haunted him throughout the eye poke. So I'll ask you, what do you make

of the eyepokes? Has it been as egregious as it's been made out to be? Do you believe it's just been the accident? Like, what do you make of that? Because, again, you know, he did have that retina surgery after the second fight. I'm not purposely doing that. I'm not purposely poking them in the eye. So that first fight, I kind of poked them in the eye, I flipped them.

The issue with that was sometimes when I spar, and because I'm shorter, I have the 16-ounce gloves. And I can kind of flick my hand towards guys and hit them when they're a little bit out of range. I think that's what happened the first time. The second time, once I think my knuckle got jammed into his eye, but that's not a finger. You know, I kind of punched, and the thumb was, the thumb was tucked into a fist, but like the knuckle got him in the eye. And I don't even know. Like, I'm not trying to poke the guy in the eye. Like, that's fucking stupid.

Like, why would I ever do that? Yeah, I don't wish long-term damage to this guy's eye. Like, I don't wish, I don't wish that the guy can't see out of this freaking eye. Like, that's crazy. One of my friends and co-workers Michael Bisping deals with that. Like, I don't want to see another guy have to deal with that. It's crazy. Like, I don't know.

I'm not trying to poke this guy in the eye. Like, I mean, we're wearing these little gloves, and we train with 16-ounce gloves. So sometimes you do things that you may have done with the 16-ounce gloves that you can't do with the 4-ounce gloves. Yeah. I don't purpose to try to poke this guy in the face. Yeah, there's a certain inherent danger that comes along with fighting with open-finger gloves.

I mean, I'm not making excuses, but that's just part of it. You can do that in grappling, too. I've done that in grappling, obviously. I'm not a UFC fighter, but I've got enough thumb in the eye. And I've got thumbed in the eye by Steve A before. Like, I mean, it's not like he's never thumbed me in the eye. Like, he's hit me in the eye. He stuck me in the eye before.

Whatever. Yeah. Now, you've, you know, you've, you know, in the first fight, again, you knocked him out, second fight, again, you were dominating on the feet, and then what happened in the fourth round? What is the ideal outcome in this fight? Is there an ideal outcome for this fight? Just win.

You know, I'd love to win the fight over an extended period. the time and show that without a shadow of the doubt I'm better. You know, I mean, and show, you know, my cardio filmed me last time. There were a lot of factors why.

No excuses, though. He took a beating. He stayed in the fight and he got the job done. I mean, I, you know, I respect that. I respect that he was able to do and stand up to some of the stuff that I hit him with. But the reality is, I'd like to show that

cardio is no issue. It never has been. All of a sudden it is not like, I want to show that I've prepared myself and with the ability to prepare as I always have that if it's 25 minutes, it's 25 minutes. If it's 10, it's 10. It just doesn't matter.

I win the fight. Yeah. Now, I know you said, you know, the focus is the fight. The focus isn't necessarily the retirement that's going to come afterwards. But when you say, when you said originally, when you wanted to retire,

and obviously the timeline shifted, but you said this is your last fight that's going to be it. And I think everyone believes you, D.C., I believe you. You've got other things going on. I know your focus. I know your family.

When you say I'm going to retire, I believe you. But I don't believe it when almost anybody else says it. Alexander Gustafson said it. He's coming back as a heavyweight. You know, Chuck Liddell said it. And then, you know, years later it comes back and fine. What is it? And your belief, D.C., you're a smart guy.

Why is it that so many people can't set that date and actually walk away and be done with it? Because once they're done, you know, they're done. You know, like they go from the game that rush, right, that being a part of the show, is gone. And then what? You know, they just, they go to the gym and they train and they feel like, oh, man, I can still go with these dudes. But there's nothing to fill that gap, right? That big gap, that training camp gap, you know, that gap of preparing for something, that is gone.

And so what do you do? your mind starts to race. I think that for me, I've got so many things that I can do outside of the fight that will allow me to fill those gaps. I figure out coach at A.k.a.

I'll still coach my wrestling teams. My son is wrestling. My daughter and her gymnastics, I got another baby coming. Like, I just think I have things to fill the gaps. Yeah. I'm still prepared for it, you know? And you're

and you're doing. Prepare for my show on Mondays. Prepare for my show on Monday. Prepare for the call in the fights. Calling the fights will allow me to still be a part of the show. Most guys don't have that. Yeah. And you said, you told me before when I asked you this question,

you're going to miss it. You're absolutely going to miss it. I'm going to miss the competition. I live the competition. I may be the most impoverian guy. You're on the roster. But, man. It has to stop for everyone, you know?

Nobody has the ability to just train and fight forever. And I know it daily because I can feel it in my preparation now. Like, some people go, well, what if they give you all this money for this? I'm like, man, if I have to prepare like I'm prepared right now, to do that at my age for a sustained period of time would be very difficult. At 36, 37, they could call me five weeks before a fight. go, are you ready? I'm like, not no, but I guarantee I will be in three weeks.

And I would go do it. I don't have that luxury anymore. I need 12 weeks to get myself to where I can do what I need to do to win a fight. Yeah, absolutely. And I know, like I said, there is a, there is a, you know, and fortunately

we're in a sport where we see so few guys walk away on top. I imagine that means a lot to you to walk out as champion, to leave as heavyweight champion, to be one of, what, two people, George St. PR being the other one to actually leave with a belt. Yeah, it would be, I'll be amazing. You know, I think everybody, everybody wants to have what GSP did, and nobody does,

because everybody kind of grasped you. And you watch guys that have, like, even my man Mike Slick, right? My man, Mike Slick had came back from all those surgeries, and he knocked some guy out on Fox. Do you remember that? I do. And it could have been, like, it, you know, like, it would have been it, you know? But then he kept going.

I think that fight was supposed to be his last fight. You know, and he came back. He was like, I just want to do it one more time. And he did it. And he won, and it was perfect. And then he came back again, you know, to try to do it again. And he fought again, and he lost twice.

He was like, okay, I'm done. But it's like, that could have been it, you know? Like, you would have been it and it would have been perfect. You know, dude had fucking pulled himself off the crown, all those stomach issues and everything. And he had came back and he had won. but I decided to keep fighting. And I think that's how most people think.

You know, you go out and you fight and you do some spectacular shit, and all of a sudden you're like, man, I can still do it like I used to. But the reality is, that's not the case. I think every great champion can do something for one night. Can a great champion do it for a sustained period of time when they're at an advanced age? I don't believe that. Yeah, yeah.

Well, like I said, I believe when you say you're going to walk away, you're going to walk away, and I know it's going to be a big moment for you on August 15th. You know, I was at your last wrestling match. I remember that. You're leaving the shoes on the mat, and I assume this one will be leaving the gloves in the cage. You know, to do it like a wrestling match where you take off your shoes would be fantastic.

I just think that the lasting image of me is going to be getting that belt wrapped around my waist one last time. And I believe that that will be the memory that you want to leave with everyone. You know, there's a lot of pitches of me hitting bell trapped around my waist. And I just want to happen one more time. Yeah. Against a tough guy. You know, very tough guy. Yeah.

And I know you've said it. When you walk away, you leave the heavyweight title behind. You hope Steve A is still involved in the next title fight. And I think that says a lot about what Steve A, you know, what he means to this division is even after you beat him. You still believe he's the next guy in line. I do. I do believe that regardless of what happens after I'm done, it should be somebody versus Stephen-Meotich for the heavy league championship. I don't know who it's going to be. Probably Francis and Ghanu. But Stipe should be involved in some way.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Do you see, before I let you go, I know we talk, I know you're in camp, so you're probably not doing much TV watching right now. I know we talked about Better Call Saul. Have you, one show I never mentioned to you, have you ever watched the boys on a Amazon? I haven't watched the boy. Somebody else told me to watch it,

but it was so gory. I watched like the first episode and I was like, man, this is really gory. Then you got to watch it.

I promise you. It's gory. It's gory, but you got to watch it. I promise you will love it. It's the superheroes that kind of just do whatever the fuck they want, right?

Yeah, yeah. Like, they're basically just like they're off the chain. Like, they're completely like no morality whatsoever. Like the anti-superman, but it's hilarious. It is a great show.

Like, I know your shows. I'm telling you. love that show. I'm going to start it today. You've never let me down the wrong path. I promise you. I was watching a promo for it today, and I thought about it before I called you. I was like, if there's one guy I know who liked this show, it does get crazy.

I promise you, but it's a great show. I'm going to check it out there. DC, it is always a pleasure, my friend. I appreciate you taking the time. Have a safe training camp. Have a good training camp. And I'm sure we will chat after the fight. All right, my brother.

Thank you. All right. Talk to you soon. Okay. Bye-bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.