MMA Fighting - Emergency Reaction | PFL vs. Bellator Champions Card Revealed — How Successful Can It Be?

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

The PFL PPV Super Fight Division will kick off on Feb. 24 in Saudi Arabia as the expected PFL vs. Bellator champions event has been officially announced. With the main card heading to pay-per-view, and the UFC bringing a free event with UFC Mexico City that same day, can this card outkick its coverage? MMA Fighting's Mike Heck, Shaun Al-Shatti, and Jed Meshew react to the event's announcement, and give their 1-10 scores in regards to excitement levels — which may or may not change throughout the reaction. Additionally, they discuss the card, the main card being behind a paywall, if the PFL should've made an effort to stick it to the UFC by booking the card for March 2, how the event can be deemed a success for the PFL, any names that are visibly missing from the lineup, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @ShaunAlShatti Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit darktrace.com forward slash defenders for more information. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hi, I'm Mike Heck here from MMAFighting.com. Reacting to some big news. It was first reported by Our good friend Ariel Hawani that on Saturday, February 24th, we're getting the card. PFL versus Bellator champs, the Super Fight card, the first Super Fight pay-perview card put on by the PFL. It is going down in Saudi Arabia.

And we have the full lineup right in front of us right now. We got Head Inferita versus Ryan Bader, heavyweight champ versus heavyweight champ. Impa Kasang and I, the PFL lighthead. heavyweight champion. We'll take on Bellator middleweight champion, Johnny Eblen. So we do get Johnny Eblen on this card. Jason Jackson, the brand new Belator Welterweight champion. We'll take on PFL champ, Magamad, Magamette Karamoff, Patricio Pitbull, taking on Jesus Panato. Those are the title fights. The rest of the main card, Vadim Kempkoff, the Bellator Light Heavyweight champion moving up to heavyweight, take on Bruno Capulosa. Yoel Romero, our old friend,

taking on Tiago Santos. A couple of former UFC title challenges right there. AJ McKee versus Clay Collard, excellent opener. And then we go to the prelims. Aaron Pico versus Gabriel Braga. I'm not sure if we're going to get that fight. We'll probably talk more about that in a minute. Biaggio Ali Walsh will make his professional MMA debut against Chris Morris.

We will see Clarissa Shields on the card against Kelsey DeSantis. And we'll see some local talent competing on this card as well. So we are here to react to this lineup, this PFL versus Bellator champs event. And joining me, we got Shaheen al-Shadi, we get Jed Mishu, Mr. No Gray area. Shaheen, let's begin with you. We knew this was coming.

Weren't sure exactly what the date was, but now we see the lineup. We see four title fights. We see the names. One to ten. Where are you at right now? What's your reaction to what you are looking at on the Don Davis graphic of love?

The Don Davis. Didn't expect that one. Okay. I feel like I need to couch what I'm going to say, put it in a little context, because my initial thought when this hit, one out of ten, I'm going to six. It's good. It's fine. It's mid.

It's somewhat disappointing, considering that there are four people in Bellator that I really would have been really interested and excited to see, above all else, patchy mix, Uswan Nirmigamadov, Chris Cyborg, and Johnny Ebblin, and we're getting one out of three, or one out of four. That's a little tough. Just there's four guys. Give me at least two of them. And then I would have been maybe a little happier.

That being said, I think that it is one of those situations. Like, if this is a free card, if this is just a straight free card and they're just offering this, hey, this is the big celebration welcome moment to all of these forces joining together. 10 out of 10. Like this is a tremendous card. This is probably the best non-UFC card that a promotion has put on in a good five years, right? Like just in general, like this is just a card loaded with talent, with names. A lot of these people are in our rankings and I'm a fighting. Like, this is just a very

meaningful card. But when you're asking me to pay whatever the price is going to be for this, whether it's a 40, 60, $80 price tag, it's a little, you kind of set the standard a little bit higher and you have to judge it on a little bit different of a scale. So I say I'm a six. I think by the time it comes, I could probably be a seven, seven and a half because also you know me. I like gimmicks. Give me any kind of gimmick and I'm instantly already more into the card. And the idea of this whole thing very similar to the Bellator versus Risen thing of just like this is very clear promotion versus promotion. That's an easy one.

That's an easy story to tell. And I like that. I can get into that. So I'm at a six right now. I think once I get over the fact that Usman and Patchy and Chris are on this, I can probably get to like a seven and a half. Jed, you look like a pit bull that is on a leash. There's a stake 25 feet away from you and it's just out of reach and you're just ready for

that leash to break off. your reaction to this lineup, this card, February 24th, the Super Fight's pay-per-view debut for the Professional Fighters League. This card's great. I don't know what this negative Nelly is over here. Like this, what are we expecting? It's not like PFL has good champions. We all know this. I told you what I was expecting.

I told you the exact names I want. Correct. But we all should have expected that Chris Cyborg's not going to be in this because Cyborg and Kail Harrison, that's going to be. its own separate thing. Well, also, she's boxing. Like, there are actual circumstances. There's other stuff going on there.

None of us should have anticipated this. I will say, I've got two issues with this announcement. I got only two issues with it. One, I do agree. Super weird Usman's not involved in this. Just because Saudi Arabia, it feels like he would be a natural fit to headline this card. You know, tough to do it because O.A.M. retired. So there's not like a natural PFL light.

way champion to fit Usman. But also, by the way, good call. OAM. OAM getting out of here before he's having to fight Usman. I don't, I don't begrudge that, man. Well, also doesn't even have to. Still unclear if Usman's the champion of Bellator because of the whole drug test thing and how that all shook out. So I don't know if that's why.

But to me, that is the one glaring issue with this is the lack of Usman. But like, yeah, would it be better if Patchy's here? but again, they don't have a natural matchup for Apache, so maybe taking a little more time that sort of makes sense. Instead, we got all of the natural matchups, all of the fights that make sense, and we get a little bit of extra. Look, we're on the same page scene.

I love a gimmick. I loved the gimmick when this was announced. One of the very few things that I was all the way positive about with the PFL Bellator acquisition is, well, at least they said they're going to do the thing. And they're doing the thing. This is, even if we're going to have to pay some money for it, which yes, we are.

And I would say that maybe isn't the best business decision, but, you know, whatever, who am I to talk about the PFL finances? I'm not there, accountant. It would be better if it were free. But I'm also about to drop 80 bucks to watch the worst title fight in modern history in the co-main event of the UFC on Saturday. So I'm willing to give PFL a little bit of leeway on this. Four fights that are at least interesting in one respect or another,

even if we're not talking about the highest, highest level mixed martial arts that can occur. And then I like what they've done with the other fights. Look, I am the patron saint of Yoel Romero. I will always stand to watch this man fight, even as he has diminished into an almost cartoonish fighter in his later years. And Tiago Santos is on the same path of cartoonish. So that fight may not actually involve more than three full punches. They might be over under the over under a punch is thrown.

And that might be like seven and a half. They might stare at each other for 12 full minutes until third row, YOL just hits him once and it's over. That fight could be anything. And so because it could be anything, I choose to believe it's going to be great. You have Vadeem Nimkov, Bruno Capulosa. I don't think anyone has ever thought that that's a fight that should happen.

but at the same time, Nymcahaw's been saying he wants to go up to heavyweight. You can't put him against Fahetta. Like, Bader's got the rights to do that. So you get a former PFL heavyweight champion to sort of see how Vadim shakes out here. I think that fight will be good and makes sense. Clay collard, AJ McKee's going to be fun as hell. That's awesome. That fight's just a banger and a half.

That's tremendous matchmaking. Yeah. We could talk about Gabriel Brock and Aaron Pico. I think that there's a decent likelihood that fight ends up not occurring because of personal issues in Braga's life at this point in time, but Biazio Ali Walsh is finally making his pro debut, and Clarissa Shields is back. Like, this is the best PFL can offer.

And if your response to that is, well, PFL can't offer me much. I understand that. But I think that they have done the thing. They have put their almost absolute best foot forward. It would be better if they could do Cyborg versus Kayla Harrison, but obviously they can't. They could have done this.

better, but I expect that those fights will come at another pay-per-view in the future because they can kind of carry that. And so instead, we've got the gimmick. And I love the gimmick. I'm so in on this fight card. I only have one other issue. But I've been talking for a minute. So let's table it because we can get to my other main issue with this in the moment.

Well, that's also why I say put it in context, right? Because I agree. This is a good card. I said it's like probably the best non-UFC card in the last like five years, if we're being honest. Just you look up and down the talent, like how deep it is. Because a lot of these non-UFC pay-per-view pay-views, it's like four, four pay-per-view type of fights. Like, this is good. This is a genuinely good card. I think all of, most of these matchups, at least the top, what, eight, nine, including Clarissa, like, could be used as a headliner for a PFL show

for the most part. So, like, I appreciate that they're going all in. It's just that, again, if you give me one of Patchy or Usman, my, I instantly go up to like a seven or and if you give me both, I'm at a nine or a ten. That was all. That's what's missing from this. Because I get the cyborg thing. I get the cyborg thing. I'll tell you one name that's missing off this. And I know she's not like a household name just yet, but she's getting there and putting

her on a card like this would probably do her some wonders. Dakota DeChaven on this card? What? She wants to fight on this card. We can't find any Bellator 125er for her to dust up. They got 260 fighters on the roster. You don't have to throw in there with Liz Karmouche. Throw in there with like a one and three Belator flyway and just let her get over.

Like her not being on the card was a little puzzling to me. That's a great point. I would suggest that PFL, to me, this card reads as we're doing the thing, we're going big. We're not going all in because we still have other things we want to be doing this year. and we need some other names to fill out a future pay-per-view. Because I think they're targeting like four pay-per-views a year, this, the championship, and then maybe one or two others throughout the year. Having Dakota D'Coha would honestly make sense.

And maybe it still could happen because, again, really not sure Braga Pico is happening. And they may decide they want to put an extra spice shot in here. But I could see them just being like, hey, we're going to fire Dakota Dachava in on a card that we do with Kayla Harrison, versus Cyborg, assuming they can make that that fight card happen. You know, with trying to think of who the other big names that they... With Patchy and Usman, right?

Like, if you throw those four at the top and then... And Lerisipecho. Yeah. You put Larissa Pacheco in there and you do kind of the best of the other people that aren't included here. And again, you start talking all those names and fights that are at least reasonable. You're starting to talk me into 50 bucks again. Like, okay, I'm getting five good names.

I'll pay 50 bucks to watch that in April. Unless she's going to do the season, which could be possible. Maybe they're going to build a women's flyweight division for the season. She says she wants to do it. She wants to go for the quote unquote world title after winning the European title. It's also totally possible that they're just like, F it. Who the hell else does Liz Karmouche have to fight? Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if she's ready for that. You got to be smart. I don't like she's not. She's not. She's not. To the wolves a little bit. Yeah. It definitely is.

but also like, what do they care? You know, just see what happens. Maybe she wins. And if not, then you can go back to the drawing board. Give her like some, what do you think, though, like that? What do you think? What's your rating? What's your rating on this?

Six. Okay. It's just fine. It's outrageous. This is the least amazing voice. First of all, well, Ryan Bader has been able to do, at least from a financial perspective, over the last seven years, is incredible. Crushing the game.

And somehow he is in the main event of this card. This on paper may be the, this has Ryan Bader Czech Congo written all over it. And that does not make me happy. Johnny Amlin and Pekasang and I is interesting, although I do really have a pretty good idea of how that fight's going to go. Jason Jackson, Magamemad, Mogamemad Karamov. I can tell you what, if Magamemad Karamov doesn't win this fight, they get swept in this champion versus champion thing. And then Panado versus Pitbull is kind of interesting, but I'm with, like, Clay Clay Collard Agent McKee's a tremendous fight.

Tiago Santos, Yol Romero could be really good or just really bad. It's going to be funny. I'll tell you what, it's going to be funny. Fidememkev, Bruno Capilosa is going to be an insane three minutes. Yeah, that's a quick fight. Capilos is going to be winging punches and then Nemcoff's just going to be standing around like, all right, I'm just going to take you down and beat you up and then this one's over. So the prelims, I mean, look, Braga, Pico is fine, but again, I don't even know if that fight's going to happen.

It's just fine. It's a fine card. Here's the thing. Boy, they're going to, this will not. Here's why I'm at a six. My hunch tells me, and I have no insight to this whatsoever, this will not be a $50 pay-per-view. I think it's going to be like a $65. I agree with you.

I think you're right. I think you're right, 50. And here's the thing on this card, because I'm trying to figure out why it's hitting me in such a weird, like, mid-place. right? And as you were going down up and down at Mike, it sort of occurred to me like the depth on this is tremendous. Because up and down, like all of these fights as a whole, I want to see most of these fights. Like all of these fights individually, I'm like, oh yeah, that's a good fight. It's just that the top is is underwhelming, right? Like, that's what it is. Is the main and the co-main, if you're giving me Brian Bader against this, and then like impocassaginae, like,

I don't know. I can't, I can't get to like a nine or a ten with that as the main and the co-main. And there's not the splash at the top that you'd like for something like this, especially in like a grand reentry into the world, which is this is supposed to be. So here's the thing. They don't, one, I agree in principle with what you're saying, right? Like, it just makes sense. They don't have the horses. There's nothing splashy to put there other than Kayla versus Cyborg.

Or, or Patchy and Uspin. That's not even that. Like, that's splashy for like, a very specific person, but not broadly. Who is this card directed at other than us? Like no casual walking down the streets like, oh, this PFL versus Bellator card is going to be so sick. You're not talking to people right now.

I think that's the goal. In public's being like, oh, man, I can't wait for this. That's the goal is to get those people. That's the other thing I disagree with, though. But that's the thing. This card is directly targeted to me, you, and you. Like me and you, guys and the person listening to this right now is the target audience for this card to be like,

hey, guys, we're the co-leader. All of this stuff we're saying, he's like, this is who is, who is, who is, who is who is who would patchy be fighting? Like, how would you put them against? Because that's the other thing. If you're going to say that they need it, I'm not arguing that they'd help. Who are they fighting? O'Am's gone.

Usman versus Clay Collard. Yeah, I was going to say, give me Clay Carlin and Usman. He was the runner up. You do Patchy Mix versus Danny Sabatello. Because you know, Danny's got to talk a whole bunch of noise. They don't have any band-a-blade grade out. Can we be done with the Danny Sabatella thing? Wow.

It was a fun time. He's not an interesting fighter to watch. Because that's the other thing. I think you guys think that Ryan Bader is about to lay all over Hanan for Hara. I got to tell you. I don't think that's about to happen. Hanan is a get-or-get-God All-Star. He is either going to club Ryan Bader or he is going to get clubbed,

and that fight's going to take maybe two rounds. I think the fight's going to be decently violent. The co-main event, I am not anticipating to be great, but also we're all team Johnny Eblen as like maybe the best middleweight in the world. It would make more sense to me if Johnny Ebbin was the headliner because I think of what we think of him as a fighter. But I think this is the best thing out. Panato, Patricio Pitbull is going to freaking rock.

Let's not talk about the welterway fight. We don't need to. that's of 25 minutes that is going to happen. On paper. Panetto pit bull is going to rule. On paper, the Welterweight fight is probably the best fight on this card. Just like in terms of meaningful fights. Yeah.

Like of too high level. It's going to be a terrible fight to watch. It's going to be a tough fight. But it's fine because we're all going to be in a violence high from Panato Pitbull who are just going to mash each other. It's going to be awesome. So this fight, this fight court is as good as we could have ever hoped for from PFL.

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Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close to you, call 1-866531-2-60 or visitcomex Ontario.ca. I'm looking at the press release right now because I have two questions. one of them was answered by area holani that elbows will be allowed and if ariel says love that I'm looking at this right now um okay all right you know what I'm at a six and a half now I'm in six and a half elbows elbows got you a half point elbows got me like a quarter of a point the fact that these four champ versus champ fights are three rounds is the other oh okay because if this was If these are five-rounders, I didn't even think about that. I would immediately be dropped.

I'm doing nine now. I only have to watch 15 minutes of Magamac Caramov. Hell yeah. I'm at a nine. I thought that was 25 and a smoke break, you know? I assume it was going to be five rounders. So you say that gives me a little nudge to. Newly designed.

There with you. Fight championship belts of the future Belvoir in PFL. Highlight the spectacle of three-round super fights where Elbers are legal and the winner takes all. I love that. Smart. Also, this is a 3 p.m. Eastern card. That's what I was about to say. This paper view is kicking off at five Eastern. Like, we're going to be done with this thing by 8 p.m. or whatever. This is going to rock.

Yeah, 3 p.m. Eastern is when the paper view starts. So we'll be done. I'm seeing the five card. I see five p.m. Eastern for Don Davis. No, no, no. The main card starts at noon Eastern. Uh, Eastern. Don Davis's tweet says five p.m. U.S. Eastern. It's classic Don right. See, he's just wrong. Okay, he's just wrong. Okay. Press releases three. Everything about it says three.

So that's good. The other thing I think is very interesting, Jen, the timing of this, the day after it is reported that the UFC is not doing the Saudi Arabia card on March 2nd. That's not happening. And then, like, it's in this event is happening the same day. UFC Mexico City. The UFC makes their marquee return to Mexico City. So what are your thoughts on the timing?

That's day of violence. Day of violence. Also, KS1 announced a one-night four-person tournament to crown their new light heavyweight champion on that day. That's my other issue. I like that you just combined K1 and KSW. Oh, did I, did I do KS1? Whatever KS1 is, I'm so in on it.

No, that sounds great. It's KRS-1's fight promotion. You know, if you guys feel about that. So this is my one other issue. I do think it's weird Like I said, the Umar thing That one would have made all the sense in the world If they're going to go to Saudi

My other issue that Is the quibble at this point But as I marinate on it more and more I'm starting to really Think is a bad choices Counter programming the UFC Is just never a good business move for PFL Now granted the Mexico City card

The you know it It's not great It still has some bangers Top two is tremendous. The rest of it's there, but it's also just the UFC and you're on ESPN Plus, which is where you both are provided, there will be the free UFC Mexico City card or the $50 to $70 pay-per-view for PFL. And I got to tell you, casual fans are going to click on the free one over the one that they're going to pay for 100 times out of 100. That is a tough business move, I think. Also, because

the opportunity cost was right there, boys and girls. It was right there. Ariel Hawani reports. The UFC is moving off their March 2nd Saudi Arabia card because it's a shit card. Paraphrasing, those were not Ariel's words. But that's what happened. The Saudi officials were like, you guys are trying to feed us this dog crap and call this good.

We're giving you $20 million. We expect more bang for our buck. I'm sure that this has been a planned date for PFL for a hot minute. but as soon as that report dropped yesterday, if I'm Don Davis and company, I'm making a couple phone calls. Hey, here there might be some availability

for a fight card on March 2nd. What if we just push this back a week? Because I got to tell you, the headlines coming off of this are going to be strong because it's a good solid fight card. Everyone, it's news on a Tuesday. That's great. But if the headlines coming in off this today

were, PFL takes over the UFC's set date event for Saudi Arabia. That's co-leader material right there. That is co-leader material where that is a shot across the bow and instead they have opted to go head to head in a fight that they are probably going to lose. I think this is a misstep. Do you agree with that, Shane? I think it's probably a little more sophisticated than just like, hey, let's try to figure out how we can move this back a week.

There's probably a lot of moving parts that have been in play for about six weeks to move those parts to three months. Move those parts. Doing something out of spite as much as I always enjoy petty in spite, probably a little more challenging than we think. I think, look, again, I did not ever say it would be easy.

It will not be. This is a cruise ship. It takes a while to get the thing turned. But there is an iceberg straight ahead that they are running into called Counter. programming UFC Mexico on the same streaming platform. I cannot stress to you enough on that Saturday, you are going to open up ESPN Plus. There will be the BFL pay-per-view and the free UFC card.

And no one is going to pick the $50 one. It just will not happen. And so I think this is a big missed opportunity. Exactly. Ryan Bader. Again, I am talking about the business side of it, my personal interest in what's going on on this fight. So let me ask you guys.

Let me ask you guys. The main and the co-man of UFC Mexico is tremendous, right? Roy Val, Moreno, headliner, and then Yaya Rodriguez, Brian Ortega, co-headliner. What are the best three fights from that day between the two cards for you? Mike. Oh, that's a good question. The two UFC fights are one and two for me. They're one and two?

Okay. They're one and two. Almost certainly. three. Even though we've seen Moreno Roeval. I mean, it's still going to be fun to tell him. We also got a Royval who got injured super early in that fight. And we don't.

I still think Moreto would have won, but I don't know if we have all the answers. I got to tell you, the third fights from the UFC card too. Oh, no. It's Daniel Zell Huber and Prado. I mean, that fight is going to be fun. That fight is going to be absolutely insanity. Absolutely nuts. So, yeah.

There's three fights I have to watch. that day, it's those three. I go Panetta pit bull at three and honestly, Collard McKee at four. I think both of those are just guaranteed. Hard McKee's four for me. Collar McKee's definitely up there. That's a good card opener too, like the placement of that. It's terrific card opener.

Like, again, I'm, I think there's this is a, the more I think about it, the more I think that it is a huge misstep to still, for this to be your target date. I liked the target date idea sort of in a vacuum of, all right, we're going to, going to stake our claim to Saudi Arabia a week before the UFC. We're going to come. We're going to have a better card than what the UFC is putting out there right now, at least by the best of our knowledge. The next week, UFC is going to come in and they're going to have some drek that's not going to taste as good because it is the backwash to our best effort.

Now that doesn't get to happen. The UFC is going to shove back to June. There won't be that feeling for the Saudis, et cetera. I think, again, I know it probably would have taken a lot. But if you are Don Davis, if you're the PFL, I think you just got to be like, hey, is this legit? Is March 2nd now an open date? We would love to push back a week. Like you guys are already planning for an event at this location.

We got four title fights or champ versus champ fights and another seven champs fighting or whatever it is. Let's do it. Because it's also an open weekend now. It's an open weekend. The UFC, at least to the best of our knowledge, does not have a fight card plan that week. And even if they do, if what the UFC ultimately does is they say, hey, we can't go to Saudi Arabia with this dog shit fight card because it's really, really bad. But we also promised all these fights booked, and it's too hard to move those fighters off it. Maybe we keep Perez-Mukhyev to a bump thing, but instead we'll just do an apex card that week.

Then you're counter-programming the UFC instead of Brandon Moreno, Brandon Royval at UFC, Mexico, a thing that, feels like an event, your counter-programming Apex card that's headlined by Mohamed Mikhail versus Alex Perez. I know which one I'd rather be going up against in the business world. And I got to tell you, it's not UFC Mexico and Brandon friggin Moreno. I think you're being a little too hard on PFL right now in regards to this point. It is a lot more complicated than that, man. I've never said it is it.

But I understand. Do you think that it can be done? Do you think that it can be done? 25 minutes ago, we started this and you were the one raving about this card. And now we have switched positions over the last 25 minutes. And now I am the one defending the card against you. No, I'm defending the card. I'm not defending the placement of the card.

This is a good plan, poor execution. All right. Do you think that they could physically do it? Again, I'm not saying this would be easy. It would be very difficult. but like that's why you get paid my guy you don't get paid to do easy shit because if you do then I want that job

please sign me up for it I would love a job where I make lots of money and do nothing you get paid for the hard work you're doing it right now the hard this is hard work what are you talking about I had to be pumped about the PFL for like 20 minutes

I don't know why you're actually snort I'm just saying this can be done this can be done If it cannot be done, if they have already reached out to Saudi Arabia and they said, no, we've instead booked in F1 press conference or something to replace that, then okay. But if it can be done, then it should be done, sort of no matter of the kind of elbow grease that it will require. Because ultimately the fighters aren't going to be that big of a difference on it. Like, hey, push back a week. Okay.

We'll be like 90% of the answers probably. So I think they should have tried. I think they should have tried. I'll tell you one thing. One thing that I'm curious looking at this. I wish we could get the payroll from this event. I am real, real curious. A, what the total cost of all of these champions

who are probably on very high contracts is going to be. A lot of money. It's a lot of money, I would imagine. But also, I would love to see the split between the PFL champions and the Bellator champions and who negotiated what? Because if I'm a Bellator champion or a manager of a Belator champion

and you're putting me up against the PFL champion. I'm damn sure making sure I'm not making less than the PFL champion for this fight. It's a great point. I'm not really sure that they get to dictate that because I assume that they're just operating under their existing Bellator contracts and a flat rate that they get.

Sure, but the PFL stuff is a little more, it's a little, I would imagine, different, right? Because you're not on a standard champion's contract because the seasons are one-offs, essentially. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. That'd be interesting. Yeah, that'd be interesting to find out.

Last thing I want to ask about this, because I didn't think we'd be going 29 minutes on this card, but here we are. It's very important. It is. Sheehan, we have our, we have our vibes about this card. We have our vibes about the date.

We have our vibes about the fact that it's going to cost at least $50, if not more, on pay-per-view. Can this be a success? And if so, how? Like, what needs to be done for? this event for us as a whole, as the MA community, be like, you know what? $20 price tag.

A $20 price tag? If you put a $20 or $25 price tag on this, instantly everything we just said over the last 30 minutes changes. And if they don't? I think a lot of stuff we just said applies. And I think a lot of MMA fans are feeling the same, right? Like you sort of look at the public response to this. A lot of people are echoing sort of what me and you said, Mike,

at the beginning of this, that like, okay, like this is not bad. This is certainly interesting, but like if you're going to charge 60 bucks or 70 bucks for this, there's a different level of expectations for the top couple fights. What do you think, Jed? Because there are a lot of BTL conversations we had where UFC would have a fight night card. And then Bellator put together a really good Bellator card. And we would play the, if you could only watch one, what would you watch? A Bellator would win a lot of times.

But it was also on Showtime, we already had Showtime. We're not paying 70 bucks to watch it. So it's a little bit different. And even so, the headlines were always stolen from by the UFC throughout the weekends, just how it always worked. How could this be successful? Is it just making this a valuable product for fans to want to purchase 20 bucks? Or is this just not doomed, but can this be successful?

I guess this is the short question I'll ask you. It's a really good question. And again, I'm coming from where I'm very happy and excited about this. card. Like, I am interested in watching this. I don't think you can charge 20 bucks for it. I know they're going to. I know they're going to charge far more than that. I think the only way this has to be successful by any reasonable metric, I'm sure Don will come out afterwards and be like, that's the most successful night in PFO history. And look at this. But again, I cannot help but come back to the optics

here and that it will be screen and screen next to the U.S. Mexico event. And I I got to tell you, do you remember the other UFC Mexico City events? For outrageous, the crowd is so live and so there and so vibrant. And even removing the fights that are maybe more exciting or less, like removing the concept of the fights against each other, I know that when I click on to the UFC Mexico on my ESPN Plus and it pops up, that crowd is going to be vibrant. The UFC production is just straight up better than PFL's production.

We all know this. It is a true fact. There isn't the smart cage, which I adore, ironically, but most people hate. It will be a cleaner product with a fan base that is going to be rabid because that is how the Mexico crowds tend to be. And this is a Mexico City crowd that is built for them. There's so many Mexican fighters on it versus the PFL. I have no idea what a Saudi crowd is going to look like for this. I struggle to think the energy will match what's going on in the UFC.

the production is going to be worse. The fights may or may not be worse than the action fights we're probably expecting at USC Mexico City. And one of those is going to cost you $50. If you do it for free and then people can go between both during gaps or whatever, then that's going to get the most eyeballs on your product. That's going to be your best avenue to sell something to more casual fans. It's not what's going to happen.

And I think they're going to just get it in the teeth because of the schedule of it. We shall see, my friend. I wonder. Like, counter program an apex card. Count of program an apex card, not a Mexico City, not a Paris card. The energy there is so dramatically better than what you're going to be able to offer here. Unless secretly, the Saudi crowd are just a bunch of lunatics. L.A. and just screaming their heads off for I.Casangade, which seems like a bit of a stretch.

What happened the last time there in Mexico City? Do you remember the last thing we saw? Brennan Fitzgerald's hiding under a tape. Because the crowd is going holistic. Yeah, it's just like... Yager Rodriguez versus Jeremy Stevens. This is... See, I hate that we did this podcast.

I'm so upset. I was only gotten more down on this car. I was so pumped about this fight card. And then you guys made me start like actually looking at what was going on. And Mike, you know what this feels like? And I don't want to say it because I don't want to curse them. You know, I love my PFL boys. I've got the hat right there.

You know what this feels like? This feels like... every Bellator thing that's ever happened of, man, you guys have the right idea. You guys are 90% of the way there. But the ingredient you were missing is like the fundamental one. It's like, oh, I accidentally swapped out salt and sugar in this recipe. Now these cookies taste like ass.

Like you guys did everything right except for one critical part. Like that was the Bellator story of life, was they got the ball to the five-yard line and couldn't ever punch it in. And this feels like that, like, hey, you guys have done everything successful. What day is it happening? Oh, that's a fumble return for six the other way.

Like, just, oh, why I'm so upset now. I'm so happy and now I'm upset. Just to defend them a little bit, though, the difficult thing about putting something like this together is I would assume, PFL is serving many masters here, right? Because they're getting, they're certainly getting some kind of fee

from Saudi Arabia. And if Saudi Arabia wants this day, y'all, they just got to run on this day. Like, they're not the UFC with the ability to sort of like push it, push it in different directions that they'd want to go. Like if Saudi just wants this day, you got to run this day and make the best of it. So PFL's kind of just serving a lot of masters with this card.

I feel like they gave it their best effort and gave it the best shot that they could. That's the thing, though. Like if you're, what's your goal for this card? Is your goal to put together some stat card that four people are going to watch but like will be really impressed that they do? Or is your goal just to like get as many eyeballs on this grand entry as possible? Because if it's the latter, again, y'all make this 20 bucks. If you make this 20 bucks the goodwill from MMA fans, they will tune in to watch this.

Because again, this is not marketed for towards the grandma on the side of the street or the soccer mom in. the middle of fries grocery store. Like this is marketed to us. It's marketed to the sickos. This is marketed to the people who just live and breathe this 24-7. And they will come out to watch to see what this kind of spectacle is if it's 20 bucks. If you're just staunchly, 50 bucks, 60 bucks, 70 bucks, you're just, you're not engendering the kind of goodwill from this community who already spends so much money that you would want

for something like this. You're directly limiting the amount of eyeballs who would watch something like this. Jed's face is incredible. And by the way, just to be so mad. He's got an emotional journey today. A little peek behind the curtain. You wonder whose idea this was to do this reaction podcast? Me.

Jeds. I was so pumped. I was like, yeah, yeah, let's talk about this. Should we do a react? You damn right, we should. Then you made me, like, actually interrogate what was happening here. And this is awful. They've swapped out salt and sugar, and these cookies are going to taste like ass.

Oh, God. This is great. here, before we end, let's go full circle. Let's start where, let's end where we started. One out of ten, Mike, all factors involved. What's your level? What's your excitement level? I'm still at a six and a half.

The fact that these are three round fights gave it a half point boost for me. So six and a half, it's going to be an easier watch. But the boy, if this, God, now I'm talking myself out of it because you know the pacing's going to be absolutely redonculus and it's going to be like 80 minutes between each fight. and we're going to be watching the PFL until friggin 10 o'clock Eastern time. So six and a half. Now you're talking me out of it. You start to tuck me out of it.

Three round fights, thank God. I feel much better about the three round fights. But yeah, I'm still at a six and a half. And I think the UFC is going to steal all the headlines away from them once Saturday's over. I think I'm at a seven. I'm at a seven. Where are you at, Jed? I'm going 10.

Because I don't believe you. I don't believe you either. I was already. and eight and then I went through this emotional journey, but I've come out the other side because I've realized that actually the PFL has given me a great gift because my one of the greatest joys I had in 2023, I wrote about it on the site for our sort of best of the rest column, was just dunk it on Don Davis. And you know what? This is just more fodder to dunk on Don Davis over about how they have fumbled on the one to start out their 2024 campaign. So

great fight card. I'm excited to watch it. Very interested in it. It's going to be me and all the other people in MMA media who have to watch it to cover the sport. And that's it. Nobody else will watch this fight card at all. But we're going to have a good time. And then I'm going to get to make fun of PFL.

So it's the best of all worlds, really. You get so much MMA to watch. Plus, elimination chamber from WWE also on February 24th. So it's going to be a day where they do the like three minute countdown. and then people come into the ring? That's Royal Rumble. You're thinking of the Rumble. Oh, what's elimination chamber?

But instead of that, they put each wrestler that's involved in the match in a box. And then every five minutes, a box slash pod opens up. Can you see the box or is a mystery box? It's in the corner of the ring. They just lock them in a box. And then every three, every five minutes, one of the boxes open and the wrestler jumps in. Hey, follow a question. Okay.

Follow a question. Now we're in the stew. We're marinating in this. We're ideating. Is there a way we could incorporate this mystery box into this PFL Bellator card? I want to be clear. So we're very clear. Fight Circus was the original fight promotion who did this with a surprise fight on,

I think it was either the first or second fight circus where there was like, and fight we didn't advertise, the secret fight. Maybe they're going to do that. Maybe that's where Apache Mix comes in a secret fight. No, no. See, I don't want that. want the secret fight. I want secret contenders being in both sides of the ring, two different boxes. And if the fight goes past one and a half rounds, those boxes get unleashed and all of a

sudden it's a two on two. And you got a Bellator guy and a PFL guy on one side. And that's where Pacti makes-giving away million dollar ideas. That's where Pachie and Usman have been the whole time. We've tried. Remember, Jed? We did a whole BTL show about how to make. We do it every year. We can save this stupid Hale-Harrison wheel. The Kail Harrison Wheel was one of the best. best ideas we've ever had. It was an incredible idea. There's so many good ones out there. Get you somebody who loves you as much as Mike Heck loves wheels.

I mean, Kayla Harrison's every fight, like there's a gimmick on the wheel. You spin the wheel. Kayla has to fight with one arm time behind her back or Kayla can only hop on one. She can't shoot takedowns this round. It was a terrific idea. This is obviously before Larissa Pacheco beat her. Yeah. But even afterwards, like, well, as long as it's not against the rest of Pacheco,

she's going to dust up. You know, whoever, Louis de Lesnick or whatever. These aren't real opponents, so whatever. I deeply love that like all Mike Hacks secretly wants out of life is just to find some sort of place to use a wheel. To spin a wheel for something. Can we get this man a wheel? The mini, everyone wants the wheel and they want the mini microphone. I mean, the amount of questions I get asked about the mini microphone.

Skinny mic? It's a skinny mic. We got to make it happen. The MMA fighting game. I really should just get you a wheel for BTL. We are so off the rails on this conversation and this reaction pod. You need to go. Yeah, we got to get out of here.

Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Yes, PFL versus Bellator, the Superfight Paperview Division for the Professional Fighters League. It's launching February 24th, Saudi Arabia. And I'm sure we're going to have a lot to say in the buildup. And throughout the next six, seven, eight weeks as we get closer to this event. But thank you all for listening.

for Shaheen, for Jed. I am Mikek. Good night, everybody. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.