MMA Fighting - Eric Nicksick Talks Ngannou vs. Joshua, Sean Strickland 'Dialed In' For UFC 297

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Eric Nicksick joins MMA Fighting's Mike Heck to discuss Francis Ngannou booking another boxing match against Anthony Joshua in March, how nothing involving Ngannou surprises him anymore, and how preparation will be different than the Tyson Fury fight. Additionally, they talk Sean Strickland's preparation for his UFC 297 main event fight vs. Dricus Du Plessis, his reaction to the booking, Strickland and Du Plessis getting into a fight in the crowd and the emotions surrounding it, if Strickland has changed since becoming champ, other fighters at Xtreme Couture to keep an eye on, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. ...to the Vox Media Podcast Network. once again to Eric Nixick, the

MMA hour coach of the years. You may have just seen recently. The headman over at Extreme Couture had a very busy 2023 and well, 24 is already shaping up to be a while one, isn't it Eric? How are you, sir? Yeah, good to see you, Mike. How are you, brother? I'm doing great. Well, Sean Strickland

is about to defend his UFC middleweight title for the first time against Strickest Duplice at UFC 2.97 next Saturday in Toronto. But before we get to that, the story of Francis and Gano, Eric, Mr. This is How You Fumble the Bag is set to fight Anthony freaking Joshua on March 8th in Saudi Arabia. This is just insane.

Eric, I don't know what other words to really use to describe this is, but from leaving the UFC to signing with PFL to Tyson Fury to Anthony Joshua, this is insanity, man. Yeah, bro. He never ceases to amaze me. You know, this guy's been playing chess and we've all been playing checkers, you know, so it's a, couldn't happen to a better guy. So I'm very happy for our guy. You're, you know, as the coach, as the confidon in some ways, you're always down to clown, as the kids say.

But when you found out that this fight was a go, that Francis and Gano was going to fight Anthony Joshua. Like, is there even surprise from you anymore at this point? Or has it just gotten so crazy? We're just like, all right, cool. This is what's happening now? I think I'd say the screenshot. What?

Yeah. I mean, it was this, that's literally a how. it went like a party and i was like who we got a j all right see you there you know like it's it's just man it's it's been such a smooth sailing process um you know ever since he's kind of moved over and done his thing and uh man like i'm excited to get back out there you know i can't i can't wait to go see our guy compete and then i think there's so many things that we can build on and uh show even a better version of what francis he saw versus tyson fury yeah because what he did in that fight it shocked a lot of people.

I'll admit, I was one of the people that was very surprised. You know, the knockdown, the iconic photo, just legendary stuff. Now the surprise factor kind of goes away here, right? Like we've seen this guy give one of the best heavyweights in the last two decades of the boxing world, everything he can handle. How do you view this from a coach's standpoint, like a confidon standpoint where the Fury fight had its dangers, but at least through the armchair quarterbacks, it was viewed through more of a house money lens.

It's like, hey, Francis gets to round five with Tyson Fury, like, that's a moral win for him. While this fight with Joshua seems bigger and Francis being taking more as a serious threat, not just with the MMA community, but the boxing community as well, how do you sort of navigate those roads, so to speak? Yeah, I think, you know, obviously him surprising a lot of people in the outcome and the way that he performed in the Tyson Fury fight, so the cat's kind of out of the bag. The nice thing from a coaching perspective, I feel like there's a lot of things that we didn't show in that fight and improvements. that we can build a little. I feel like we tomorrow, actually Thursday,

and we're going to sit down and go over what his thoughts are on the approach and see if we can find some holes and some variables that we can change and have a different style approach against Anthony Joshua. I think it's going to be a fun fight. But moreover, you know, there's the X factor that our guy always is going to carry, and that's that power.

You know, once he hits you, once he's able to kind of dictate his power on somebody and make them move and make them vulnerable. I think that's when really you're going to start seeing the good things happen in that fight. Francis told Ariel on the MA hour yesterday as we record that, you know, he respects Anthony, he thinks he's a great fighter, but he feels, you know, I'm kind of paraphrasing here, but Joshua is more likely to hit the canvas for a longer period of time than Tyson is. Do you kind of view things the same?

Like, not in a disrespectful way, but do you feel like Anthony is more susceptible to getting knocked out than Tyson Fury? Well, I'm not going to sit here and say that I think he's more susceptible to being knocked out, but I'll say that he's more susceptible to us finding him stylistically, whereas Tyson does such a good job of movement and angles and, you know, kind of just rolling off the punches and things like that. That's why we try to utilize a little bit more of the ring control and put him into barriers to limit some of his movement,

where I feel like Anthony is going to be there more often. He's more of a ploddy fighter, kind of works well behind. behind his jab, but I feel like we can, we can find him there in the pocket rather than having to chase him down or try to hunt him down. So there's some differences there. But by, that style of fight, if he's going to be there in the pocket, Francis will find you. What if he goes out there and does this, Eric? I mean, March 8th, what if he just goes out and just flattens Anthony Joshua and wins this fight? The guy's already ranked number 10 and the heavy way rankings in the boxing world after just one fight. Goes out there knocks out Anthony Joshua.

well, like, how far can this story go? 100%. I mean, none of this surprises me anymore. And I'll say from my perspective as his head coach in MMA, watching him just completely tear his knee in half and then be able to go and beat Cyril Gar on one leg. I was a believer ever said. I mean, I've always believed in the guy, right?

But I remember I was from the camp saying, yo, I think we should pull out. Like, your leg is a mess. He's like, no, I'm good. I'm just going to go beat this guy on one leg. I know I can do it. You know, like, holy shit, here we go. And after that, man, I'm just like, bro, whatever you tell me, we're going to drive to the moon, then we could drive to the moon.

But whatever you tell me, I'm in for it. Do you ever think about that time in your guys's life when you're getting ready to fight Cyril and you're like, dude, we shouldn't fight? And he just says, nah, let's just do it. Do you think about what if he actually listened to you and he pulled out, like where things would be? Do you ever think about that? No, thank God, no. I don't want to think about that at all.

Not at all. Not at all. But, you know, it was, it was serious conversations between not only myself and Dewey, Dewey and I both admitted and said loud and clear, we don't think this is the fight you should take on this leg. But we had a deadline. And that deadline was that whatever day. And the moment you say, hey, bro, we're fighting. No matter what the outcome was going to be, no matter the outcome, we've got you back 100%. When lose or draw, it doesn't matter. From this point on, I'm not even going to talk about your leg. ever again. It goes right to freaking, let's go beat this dude. And that was the best part for me, though, the most stress relief I've ever had was when we landed in Anaheim and we're like, yo, we're fighting. I'm like, cool, that's it. I'm not even going to think about your leg again.

Doesn't even matter anymore. Let's go fight this dude. That's exactly what happened. What's more memorable when you kind of think back to the last two years? That moment where Francis is like, I'm going and then he goes and beat Cyril on one leg or what happened in September, with Sean Strickland going in there and just outlanding and out brawling Israel-A-Sanya for 25 minutes. Like nobody saw that come in. It's crazy. Like what's kind of the more memorable moment?

I'm sure that they're pretty close and it's a tough argument to have. But what comes to mind first? I mean, it's like it's like asking like which kid do you love more? You just love them all the same, but you love them differently, you know? Like each one has a different connotation to myself in my career even, you know? like Sean's such a different animal when it comes to the differences between him and Francis, you know, and, you know, Sean's journey, Sean's story is his own and it's very different.

It's very hard in the trials and tribulations that he's been through, much like Francis. He's had the same, but in a different way. So helping these guys realize their full potential and seeing their hand get raised in a championship level fight, it's hard to compare the two. Both are very, very important to me from a human element. and I couldn't be happy for either of these guys. Kind of an inside look to Sean because obviously he's getting ready to fight DDP

and just an absolutely crazy fight on paper. You were there, obviously, when Sean won the belt, you hoisted him up in the air, crazy moment, and we've seen him ever since. More people are starting to get to know him. We're starting to learn the vulnerabilities a little bit more of Sean, all the different layers to this man.

And I don't even feel like we've scratched the surface in a lot of ways when it comes to Sean Strickland. But as the guy who comes to the gym and competes and gets ready for his fights and helps his teammates. And we've heard all these great stories about how great of a teammate Sean is. What has being champion done at all? Has he changed in any way?

Does he feel like he needs to give more back? Like what have you noticed from Sean since winning the title from then until right now as he gets ready up by DDP? I think he shows like his level of care even more so to the team guys. And I think that he's actually like reverted back to like more like, cleaning the mats and making sure the gym is tidy and doing all those things. Moreover, I think just because of like he wants to keep that hard work mentality, like this belt's not going to change him and change who he is and he's not going to forget

what got him here. And that's his hard work. But even Chris Curtis was saying today, like, you know, Sean's approach to the game, I think is a little bit more heady. We talk about a little bit more calculated things as time has gone on. But as far as like just his workload and his work ethic, man, he was out for one week after he won the title and was back in the gym to help the rest of his teammates get ready.

And you can't ask for anything better out of a teammate in the room because now as a champion, that's going to trickle down. More and more guys are going to see, okay, this is how Sean does it. This is how Sean works. This is how Sean takes care of his teammates. And the next guy in line is going to feel that same way and we'll do the same thing. And it's only going to help us out. Sean wins the belt in September.

We get the Hamzaa Chimaa Paul Kostify, at least that's what we think we're going to get. Hussman steps in. Dana White, when he makes the announce he says, the winner of this fight is going to fight John Strickland for the middleweight title. And Hamzot wins. And we find he's a little bit dinged up, but we didn't really know the extent of it. And then we find out not long after that Drickis Duplice is going to be the opponent. And we pretty much have been saying coming out of that Hamzot win that, you know, availability is DDP's best friend if he wants to get a title fight. And here we are headlining the first three of the year. When you found out DDP was the guy. Were you surprised or did you think it would be Hamzat first and then

DDP and just kind of see how that was going to work? No, not. I would say surprise. I think Dracus is in a spot that he should be in, to be honest with you. He's earned this right to fight for the title. I didn't feel like Hamzot's performance with a leapfoged Drichis by any means, but I thought what Hamzot did was a very good win over, you know, one arguably one of the pound for bound best to ever do it, whether it was on five day notice and moving up a weight class. is still Kamar Usman, you know? So neither of them really surprised me either way. That was my mindset.

It was going to be one of the other pending on how Hamzot came out of that fight. You know, I got a couple text messages from some of the UFC brass that night after Homzot won and just said, hey, let us know when you think Sean were ready. This would be the matchup. So, you know, in my mind, I thought, okay, maybe it's going to be drinking or Hamzot, but, you know, you got hurt or he had the hand injury and then he got sick. So it is what it is. The fight game waits for no one.

I feel like at least preparing for Sean Strickland in 2023 to go from Nassadine Imovov on like five days notice to Abouz Magamatov to Israel Adasana, like such a contrast of styles. And then to go from those three dudes and Abus is a little bit chaotic himself or at least he can be to Drickis, who is like an absolute maniac in there. The guy is just a chaos merchant. What has that been like for you trying to put these different puzzle pieces together? Drickis is not like Asania at all.

It's like a completely different cat. Yeah, I know you're right. I mean, for me, our concept has always been to 80, 20, 80% of our workload and what we're going to do our game plan and 20% of what they're going to do. You know, and credit to Dracus in his camp, man, like breaking him down, you know, we competed against him with Brad Tavares. And just even from the Brad Tavar's a fight alone till you see him fight Whitaker, he's showing so much more growth and more, I'd say a more tactical. approach to his game, meaning that I feel like he's starting to understand what he's setting up. When he gets in South Paul, he's looking for certain things. When he's over to this side, he's looking for certain things.

You know, and we saw him drop Whitaker with a South Paul jab out of the, you know, the right hand, the power hand is now forward. So I think he's starting to understand more and more of what he's trying to accomplish in the cage, and you can start seeing that, and it's working out well for him. What have you made of the rivalry that is built between these two guys from the press coffered stuff to just fight getting in fights in the crowd at uc2 96 like i mean it's the fight game and whatever is said i'm not really talking about that but just seeing how quickly this thing escalated to where we're at now as we're talking what 12 days away from this fight less than that like

this this blew up real quick no i did and i get it like these guys are trying to sell the fight uh you know shan will poke and say all these things and then it's going to come back to you You know, guys are going to poke and say shit back to you. So it's just part of it. It is what it is. You know, it's not for me. That's for sure. Like, and it's not my job.

I don't, I'm not, the, my pay does not change that these guys talk shit or show up and and shake hands. I don't care, one bit. Jerichis is the rightful heir to that, you know, that number one contender spot. He's earned it. He's a, he's, he's great. I think he's amazing what he does and I think he's only gotten better. So all, all respect to Drichis in his camp.

That's the way I look at the, situation. These guys want to talk about their past and their sexuality and the dads and all this other crap. Leave it to them. I don't want to be involved in any of that stuff. I want to go out and compete against the best. And I think Jericho is the best right now. How has Sean been emotionally heading into this fight? Sean likes fighting. So I feel like him in the gym, not much has changed. But is there a different aura to him? Like he wants to go out there and beat the hell out of whoever he's fighting. It's like that with anybody. But it seems like things have gotten a little personal here. and he hasn't really had like a true foil

and like a true rival quite like this. So his shot, have you had to rein him in at all in any way in that regard? No, it was, so there was two days. Really, it was the Saturday when that whole little brawl thing kind of happened. I didn't see him on Sunday and then Monday's practice. And then I said to him,

basically me and Danny were in the cage with him. And I said to him, I said, look, you know, I want you to understand a couple things that you speak for a Democratic, graphic, that you speak for people that I have really never been communicated with in my life until you won this title. The amount of people that reach out to me that come from the same upbringing, the same challenges as you have had, whether you like it or not, you're an inspiration to them.

You're a role model to them in a lot of ways. I said, I'm proud of you. And I hope that you'll understand that you can make a difference with your platform and speaking on some of these things and the way you carry yourself. Now, whether you choose to do so or not, that's completely up to you. But just by your position that you're in now, you've made a difference. And people have reached out to me and have said that. I'm proud of you.

I'll leave it at that. From a coach's side, I told him, I don't want you to fight this fight emotionally because I think that favors Drichis and takes us out of our game plan. You know, and he said, no. you're right. You know, and that was really it. That was the end of the conversation.

And since then, he's just been focused. He's just been really dialed in, Mike. Like every practice has been spot on. Everything that he's been doing has been spot on. And if that's motivation by what happened, maybe, I don't know.

But from camp to camp, I feel like this one in particular has a different meaning for him, a different meaning. Like Johnny Ebblin's in here. Now we brought Johnny in for the rest of the camp. you know, two of the best middle weights in the world. And Johnny's known Sean for a long time. And even Johnny said today, he's like, dude, this guy is this guy dialed in.

So I'm hoping to see the best Sean Strickland come January 20th. God, what are those sparring sessions like with Sean and Johnny? Absolutely, absolutely barn burners and absolutely amazing. I told Johnny that after today's practice, I pulled him aside. I said, you might be not maybe even maybe right now, but you will be top five pound for pound in the world regardless. Because, dude, you're just scratching the surface right now. You're a freaking puppy in this game and you're already a world champion.

But watching what he's doing and understanding how to spar, how to train, what he's setting up in his route combinations with his punches and stuff. Man, this guy is world class. Absolutely real class. And it's no surprise that he's a champion right now. Chris Curtis also taking the trip to Toronto as well, take on Mark Andre Beiro. I feel like this is a big, this could be a very big year for Chris Curtis.

I feel like the ceiling's right there for him. He's just waiting for a moment. He's had some pretty bad luck, honestly, but he's also had some really good performance. The Joaquin Buckley fight was unbelievable. How's he looking right now heading into this year? Amazing. So actually the first three rounds I had for Chris today was Johnny Eblen.

I felt Johnny Eblen was going to give us our best look for Mark Andre. Cardio pace, size, you know, his ability. Like, when, I remember when Mark, Andre fought Dalcha, Mark Andre hitting switch crosses and switches a lot. And that's what Johnny does. And that was high level, high level round between him and Chris. Chris did amazing, amazing versus Johnny. And even Johnny said, he's like, well, that was the best I've ever seen Chris Curtis.

So I'm with you, Mike. The sky's the limit for the guy. He's a gym rat. He's in here every day. He's working hard. He couldn't ask for a better teammate and a better guy than Chris Curtis. Everybody just roots for the guy. You know, he's a, he could be E.

at times in here and then he could be on top of the world. So, but it's been more more on top of the world out of him as of late. So I'm excited for it as well. I know you've worked a lot with Al Jermaine Sterling over the years while he was Bannon White champion. Sure. Now he's moving up to 1.45 and fighting Calvin Cater. And obviously, you know Calvin very well.

You know, coaching Dan Ige having to prepare for that. That fight is so interesting to me, man. Yeah. If Aljo wasn't going to get the hallway fight, the hallway fight, which I know he wanted. and I think that was the right callout. Boy, is Cater like a really interesting challenge for him? What do you think of that matchmaking and Aljo moving up to 45? I'm glad Aljo's moving up because I've been there for those weight cuts for him and his body type.

He's a big, big, big, bansom weight, man. And I think the older you get, the heart of those cuts are going to start, you know, taking on your body and could have a lot to do with your performance. So I think this is the right move for him. I think Calvin Cater is a ultra tough matchup, man. And yes, he's good for you. friends. I'm good friends with Tyson. I'm good friends with Aljo, the whole thing. But, you know, I think stylistically, this is a very, very tough matchup for both guys. You know, Al Jameen's been in the

gym. He's been coming to all of our drill sessions. I haven't been really doing any X's and O's with them by any means, but just him drilling with us, you know, Aljo's a specialist and him being in the room helps all the guys in the room no matter what. So I'm looking forward to this fight, man. I'm looking for to foresee what Calvin decides to do in his approach in the game and looking forward to what Aljo comes up with. Dan Igay continuing to have one of the toughest schedules at 145 pounds. Jeez, Louise, man. Just the amount of killers this guy fights.

Just fought Bryce Mitchell, really close fight, gave Bryce Hell. And now he's fighting Lorone Murphy. Man, just the murderer's row for this guy. Just every up-and-comer, you got to fight Dan Igay to see if you're that guy. And Dan just takes it on the chin. He's like, all right, man, bet. Let's go. 100%.

And bro, I've been a fan of Lorraine Murphy for a while. I love watching this guy fight, man. He's good. He's very, very good. Huge fan of him and his camp. And there's some things that they've done that I've looked at and try to apply to some of the stuff that we do. So I'm really looking forward to that fight.

I feel like Dan Ege is a more polished version of Loran Murphy. I think that a lot of things that we do, we do a little bit better. But that doesn't mean that these guys aren't going to be giving us their A game when we show up February 10th, you know. So I'm really excited for that fight. barn burner barn burner so that's got five and that written all over it last thing there there's so many fighters at your gym and there's so many fighters that are at high levels and on big organizations and stuff last year when i asked you this question i said which fighter is flying under

the radar that can make a really big splash this year and cody stamen was a pretty quick answer for you it was kind of a weird year for him and i know he's out hunting and doing the damn thing and just having fun who is it now like who could Sean strickland obviously was was the underdog story of the year. Just dude just comes out of nowhere, two-fight losing streak, heading in, and then becomes a freaking world champion at the end of 2023. Who could be that story this year in 2024 for you? So I'm going to give you a couple names.

And this one really stood out to me today just because the last like few months, it's been Edmund Chabazzian. Just this dude's work ethic. You know, Sean's called him every name in the book. He said he's being a wuss and this and this and that. You know, that motivation, that big brother, he's big brother in Edmund, because we all see the potential in what Edmund possesses. And bro, I'll tell you what, Mike, this guy has been killing it in the room lately, absolutely killing it, given wonderful rounds to all the guys, but working on things himself and getting better. But there's a grit to him now.

There's a toughness about him that we haven't seen as of late, and I'm seeing that out of him now. So Edmund stands out to me. And the other one, too, that really's been jumping off the page is Daniel Zell Hoover. Man, is this kid talented? Not only is he talented, he's starting to understand the reasons why. The reasons why we do things. The reasons why you throw this knee this way. The reason why you shake step or drop step, you know, it's not like you're just doing it just to do it.

He's starting to understand where to place it, where to put it in. You know, we always say that conductor to the orchestra, you know, where do the instruments go? that's been him as of late. He's really coming into his own. I'm looking forward to seeing his fight. He's going to be fighting February 24th of Mexico City. So yeah, Zell Hoover's really been jumping off the page for me. Yeah, I remember talking about him heading into his second UFC fight and you're like, yeah, man, it's like getting a brand new Lamborghini when you just get your driver's license. You're trying to figure out, figure out how to drive this unbelievable car with like all the bells and whistles, but you're not really sure like how to get the best performance

out of it. And that's like one of the been, been one of the more challenging things you've had to deal with over the last couple of years. Like, you know this guy's got it all. But it's just a trying to harness it in the right way. How fun has it been to kind of see it? Because since then, it's been pretty crazy. Like from the corner speech where you're just like, would you say you're going to do to this dude? You're going to go have them up to just having a complete performance in his next fight to where he is now getting ready to head into Mexico City. Like how fun has that been to just watch this progression? It's been a blast. But I mean, it's been a learning and coaching experience. for myself included because I get so geeked out when you get like a Lamborghini and you want to floor it and go 140 you know to where this reminds me like hey I have to slow down like I have to give little bits of bandwidth and information and try to not over bog the internet so that's been my biggest thing as of late you know I did that with Kai Kamaka right when Kai came to the gym it was like we had so many routes and information that I think it it could hamper an athlete you know but I'll say between him between Zalhouber and manel Manel and I have been on a different level wavelength, man.

Like the way him and I go and on the pads and the things, the way we see things, you know, like I'm looking forward to Manel's fight this Saturday. And, you know, he's competing against a very tough guy and Mateus Nicolao. But just what I've been seeing in the room by Manel and understanding the route combinations that I'm looking for as a coach. It's an offensive coordinator and quarterback, man. We're just getting after it right now. Yeah, Manel, when he signed at the UFC, I don't know if I've been more delighted to see a signing

outside of the organization. I was so happy he got signed. It seemed like it took him forever to get into the octagon, but now he's knocking on the door. I think fans are starting to see his full potential, which is a pretty scary thing. Oh, man, it's crazy. I think this is like our seventh camp together,

but our fourth fight. Knock up what it comes to fruition on Saturday. Yes. I want to see that fight so badly. A lot of people, myself included that Manel won the first fight. It was very, very close. But now seeing, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the strides Manel has made since that fight.

And even Mattias as well, just seeing some of the performances he's had. It's going to be a damn good fight. And absolutely. There's going to be a lot of damn good fights coming out of Extreme Couture this Saturday. And of course, UFC 297 with Sean Strickland. And then you're going back to Saudi Arabia for Francis and Garner versus Anthony Joshua. Your passport is getting stamped a whole bunch, Eric, Nickick. Yes, sir.

The time, my man. Thank you so much. And all the best to you in the squad. My pleasure, Mike. Thanks for having me. Stay safe over there. All right. Yeah.

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