MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: 2023 Year In Review With Alan Jouban Talking Jon Jones’ Return, Sean Strickland’s Upset and Much More

Episode Date: December 26, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with a special year-end episode with UFC analyst and retired fighter Alan Jouban joining MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin to discuss the biggest moments from 2023. Islam Makhachev and Alexander Volkanovski put on a possible Fight of the Year in February as two of the top pound-for-pound fighters in the sport battled it out in a five round classic. One month later, Jon Jones made his return to the octagon and he finally conquered the heavyweight division while taking out Ciryl Gane in the first round. By June, Amanda Nunes was defending her title and then calling it a career, which dramatically affected two different divisions in the UFC. In September, Sean Strickland pulled off one of the most epic upsets in the history of the UFC when he thumped Israel Adesanya to become middleweight champion. Follow along with us as we go through the biggest moments in 2023 and start looking ahead at what’s to come in 2024 on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer.

It is hard to believe that 2023 is coming to an end. I'm Damon Martin. And today I'm happy to be joined by one of my favorite people to talk about with the sport. He is one of the top analysts at the UFC. We're going to talk about everything that went down this year. There's always my pleasure to welcome in. Alan, Joe Ban. Alan, how are you?

I'm good, man. I'm glad you called me, dude. We were just catching up about how there's such a gap in time between the next now and the next fight that I'm glad we're doing something MMA related to kind of keep my sanity a little bit with all that with the lack of things going on. It's so weird. Like we have, we keep such a busy schedule with the UFC. And we're like, man, there's a card every weekend, this car, that car.

that card. We have like a month long break and now I'm like, I don't know what to do with myself. I'm like, this is so odd not to have fights this weekend. You get used to it, right? You get used to an apex card every single weekend, three of those in a row, then you go to a pay-per-view or something, and then it just kind of comes to a screeching halt and we had this vacation time, man. But so, yeah, happy to be on with you, brother. Is it, is it wild that 2023 is already over? Like I was kind of gearing up getting ready for the podcast and I was kind of, you know, jotting down some notes about what we wanted to talk about. I sent you some notes yesterday and I was like, God, like it doesn't seem like this year just flew by.

Well, it flew by, but I also feel like this was one of those years where, you know, a lot of times, like, each quarter or so, we'll do one of those things that they'll say who will be the, who will still be champion in X amount of divisions at the end of the year or at the end of the first quarter, second quarter. And this is one of those years that it just, it just, it all got flipped upside down, right? I mean, so many fights, so many new champions, you look at the champions at the beginning of the year compared to the champions now. And at the beginning of the year, you would have said there's no possible way this would be who's the lineup. But this is the lineup. We've got so many new champions, new phases and storylines that happen this year, man. It's been a wild one. Yeah.

So we're going to go kind of chronologically. We're going to hit the biggest points. Obviously, we're not going to sit here and go through every single card, every single big main event. We're just kind of kind of hit all the biggest story points that happened in 2023. And I'm going to kick things off. going back to February, one of the biggest fights of the year, one of the most unexpectedly great fights of the year, was when Alexander Volcanowski traveled up to the lightweight division

to challenge Islam Akachev for the title in Australia. Of course, they did rematch later in the year. That was under much different circumstances. But going into February, you know, Alexander Volcanowski, number one pound for pound, looked incredible. But I'll be honest with the Allen going into that five. I'm not going to sit here and have a revisionist history and lighty about it. I honestly didn't give Alex a.

great chance in that fight. I thought Islam is so dominant. He's so big. He's so powerful. As good as Alex is, I was just like, that's just, there's a reason why weight classes exist. And, and McCachiev is a, you know, he's a massive, you know, massive lightweight. He kind of mauled. I mean, the way he mauled Charles Olivares, like, I just don't see Alex doing very well. Ends up being maybe the fight of the year. What an incredible battle that was incredible performance. And I know the rematch, you know, unfortunately, we have to, you know, we can't ignore that it happened. But that first fight was such an incredible display by both guys. And huge credit to Alexander Volcanovsky for making it such a war with,

you know, arguably the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world. A war against a guy that aside from his lone loss in the UFC has been supremely dominant. And all of his matches, pretty much all of his rounds. I mean, he very much is kabbish. And I don't want to compare the two distinctly. But in terms of dominant, dominance inside of the octagon, He doesn't lose very many rounds. If he gets on top of you, a lot of times guys do not get up and they have a lot of trouble.

And he also has the ability to finish. He looks for the submissions and the ground and pound. And till then, we hadn't seen many kinks in his armor. Again, there was the very first loss of his career that happened in UFC. But since then, he was on a trajectory to be right there next to his comrade Khabib. And then Alexander Volkanowski comes in, a smaller guy jumping up away. class and i think a lot of people's first thoughts were just as yours damon like how is he going to compete when a normal 55 i can't compete but you know what there was something that was going on

that fight week that made me believe in him because he had this confidence in itself which he always has supreme confidence in himself but he kept speaking about his build being a shorter stockier guy very hard to hold him down in the gym he has some of the best guys in a world um um it was it Craig Jones is that who was it? Craig and all all these guys with him that that are high level grapplers, high level fighters, and they were speaking about it too. Like look, I know he's a smaller guy, but if you ever try to hold this guy down, he's not an easy guy to hold down. And he's doing the right things to study for Islam to be able to get up. And so we saw that in this matchup. We saw a guy that wasn't being taken down easily. When he was taken down, he was able to get back

up. And he made this fight play out a lot of it on the feet where both. Both guys had their moments. And so it was a huge, it was a huge opportunity for both men to put on display some of the stuff that we haven't seen. Like for Islam to show that, look, when he goes to the deeper waters and he can't solidify the takedown, that he does have tremendous stand-up as we've been hearing from sources over the time, that his stand-up is that good and he showed that he has it. But Volcanowski, he showed how great he is on a full camp. I mean, I agree.

That was one of the best fights of the year. And it's unfortunate, as you said, that in the rematch, we got to see a much greater Islam, two guys that have fought each other once before, right? And so how much did they learn from their first matchup? And I wanted to say, I want to give all the credit to Islam and say, look how much better he has gotten and the adjustments that he made. But it's hard for me to take away from the fact that that Bokanasi took that next fight on short notice.

And I think it showed. And I know it wasn't a five round of fare where it was a war of nutrition, but he wasn't sharp in it. But I'm taking away from the point. Tremendous fight, tremendous champ versus champ type matchup early on in the year.

And we got to admit, Alan, like these champ versus champ fights, the few that we've seen have not really gone well. Like, if you think about it, like Connor,

you know, pretty much decimated Eddie Alvarez. Like, that was not a fight. Like, he went in there and I was there that night. I remember I was first fight at Madison Square Garden. Connor just styled on Eddie.

It was a bad bad night. Arguably his best performance. Yeah, I would agree. I think that absolutely is. And you think, you know, obviously when Israel went up and fought Yon, it wasn't the greatest fight in the world. It wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't a barn burn or anything. And, you know, Cormier, you know, when he went up and beat Steepa, great knockout.

But it wasn't, again, it wasn't the kind of fight maybe we were hoping or expecting their rematch, I think, was better, you know, of course, when they did it a second time and Steep had that incredible comeback. But by at large, these champ versus champ fights, when we've seen them, have not really produced these like epic amazing memorable fights. That is a great example of that. And I'm a big believer in, you know, we're going to talk about John Jones today, of course. But I've always said that when we really found out who John Jones was,

was when he didn't just go and just absolutely dominate and roll through somebody. And I think we learned that in the Gustafson fight, the first Alexander Gustafson fight. I know that it wasn't that kind of a war necessarily, but I think we needed to see Islam against somebody who was his quote unquote equal, you know, a guy who could go in there impress him. And that fight, we saw Alex scramble out of the takedowns get up to his feet, but then we actually saw

Islam beat Alex on the feet a little bit. We saw him land some punches. He staggered Alex on the feet, which I don't think anyone really necessarily saw coming. That was a fight where I don't think Alex lost anything in defeat. Now, again, can't ignore the rematch. He did get knocked out, short notice.

But the first fight doesn't really lose anything in defeat. And I think that's the fight where we truly learned how good Islam Makachev was because he didn't just go out there and mall him the way he had done Olivera and the way he had done all these other guys in a row where he was just absolutely decimating his opponents. I think he needed Alexander Volcanowski to show how good he really was. And you know why we got that tremendous fight?

Because Alexander Volcanowski was the right guy to go up and do it because he'd cleaned out the division. He had showed how dominant he was for so long, literally cleaned out the division. he had earned that opportunity to go up because he was ready for that, right? And it doesn't always hold true. You know, Izzy somewhat cleaned out the division when he decided to go up, but he got taken down. That size did play a factor in his fight because he wasn't able to get the guy on top off of

them in these matchups. But all these guys now that want to go double champ, they want to fight up, they want to fight in a new division too soon. You haven't cleaned out the top five, much less the entire division, a lot of these guys. And I think you know where I'm hinting, but everybody keeps kind of saying. that so soon they win one fight and they want to go up or down and fight, I think you need to clean out division and not only to earn it, like the right to do it is one thing, the right to earn to do it, but you need to earn it in terms of you're good enough to go up against

a bigger guy and be able to compete in them and make it worth our wild. Yeah, and I think, you know, listen, I, you know, largely think Connor McGregor has been an incredibly good thing for our sport. Like his arrival, his ascension, his star power has been great for the sport. But the one kind of knock I have on Connor is when he actually got the UFC to do the champ versus champ fight, which had never been done. I mean, BJ Penn did go up and fight George St. Pierre years ago, but typically it really hadn't been done. We talked about George St. Pierre and Anderson Silva fighting for how many years and it never happened? Connor going up and doing it and actually winning, suddenly he's like opened the floodgates where everyone wants to do it now.

the UFC's actually allowed for it. And I think that my personal opinion is going forward, it has to be an Islam Alex situation, where it's a guy who is clearly the number one guy in his weight class. And at that point, he really didn't have anyone truly just in his lane that was ready for a title shot. He beat Max Holloway three times. You know, he had all the things that Alex had done, he earned that opportunity to go up. I think, again, I'm not saying they need to make rules on it or anything, but like, I know, you know, without, we're saying it without saying it. Like, Leon Edwards even mentioning it. Like, you're one type, now you're two title defenses in. You got Balau, you got Shavkat. There's a long list of guys coming up. Let's slow down.

It's kind of funny because, like, what Connor did was amazing, but I think he also kind of gave everyone the idea that, ooh, I can do this too. And I feel like Islam and Alex was the example of where it works versus, let's say, Israel, when he had one, you know, he had a couple title defense is yon just won the title wasn't like yon was this established great champion and they just did it and it just it didn't feel special you know you just made my point for me you know why Anderson Silva versus gsp sounded so enticing because it was two champions that it cleaned out both divisions and that's what makes it a super fight it doesn't make it a super fight if either guy neither guy has cleaned out the division or if one guy's cleaned out to division the other guy just

became the champion. It's not as enticing. Yes, we got a good match. We got a good fight out of the Islam in Volcanowski one, but I think it needs to be both guys. Both guys need to at least have three or four title defenses in the division against top guys. And then the super fight starts to kind of organically make itself, but you can't start calling guys out after one win. Yeah, it doesn't feel special. These fights are supposed to feel special. Like Islam fought Alex, it did feel special. It doesn't feel special if it's not earned. And I, I, I, I, have a ton of respect for guys wanting to become double champ or champ champ I get it

but yeah like that felt special and that was an incredible fight and you know what it makes it feel special because it's water cooler tall it's like man what would happen if George St. Pierre put on a couple could put on a little weight put on some muscle

whatever and if he went up and took on Anderson Silver what I don't know man I mean Anderson so tall he's striking so good but GSP put on 10 pounds of muscle now he's able shoot the takedowns what would happen could could anderson defend the takedowns would he be able to pop the triangle like it did on chel sunday against gs p gspsp's much too savvy for that it creates that conversation man and that's what's fun but but you can't you can't create that conversation off of one title defense it's it's not there yet it hasn't been earned it at this point it's

it's becoming the fighter looking for the big payday the fighter looking for something to add to the resume the fighter looking for a feather in the cap rather than the what-if conversation that we all want, and that what-if conversation comes from two dominant guys over a long period of time. Yeah, and like I said, Alex and Islam was an incredible fight. Maybe the fight of the year, to be honest, when you think about it from a technical standpoint

and just the back-and-forward nature of that fight, but that fight felt special. I don't need to see that fight every week. I don't need to see it every two weeks or every month. I'm okay with seeing Islam fight just, in Gaichi and fighting Olaver again and fighting other guys in the division. I'm completely okay with Alex fighting Iliot Toporia and maybe eventually Josh Schmidt or whoever else is out there.

We saw it. I'm good with that. I don't necessarily need to see it all the time because it doesn't, again, champ versus champ should be special. That fight felt special in February. The one in October didn't carry the same weight because we'd already seen it. It was short notice. I'm glad that, you know, I'm glad Alex took the fight and say,

the card, but there was a big difference in the feeling from February to October when they rematched. And Islam has not cleaned out his division, nor has Leon Edwards cleaned out his division for the, so even that conversation being thrown around to me is ludicrous, because neither guy has done what they need to do yet to earn that matchup. So I wish that talk would go away. Yeah, I agree 100%. Now, we started in February with that incredible fight, and it was maybe five the year. We go into March and we finally get the long-awaited return of the guy I consider to be the greatest fighter of all time, John Jones, finally makes his return in the heavyweight division to take on Cyril Gaon. Now, is there a part of me that wishes it had been John Jones

versus Francis and Gano? Of course. Deep down inside, do I wish we could have seen that fight? Of course I do. But situations are what they are. Contracts are what they are. Didn't happen. but John Jones I always still talk I talked about this with Daniel Corby a couple months ago I remember years ago like 2013 I think it was or something like that when John Jones did a press conference and he did a fun little stare down with Kane Velazquez and everyone's like ooh that would be the fight and I was like my god that's still like one of my all-time dream fights we never got to see John had been teasing this move to heavyweight for so long and then he was out for like three years and he finally came back and I'll be honest again I think John Jones is the greatest

mixed martial artist in history but even I was like I don't know man three years away going up in division heavyweight was so different you know much more dynamic guys Cyril gone was a incredibly fast dynamic striker and boy I'd tell you what man John Jones continues to just prove and what I again what I keep saying he's the best to ever do it but it was so good to have him back he's undoubtedly the best I ever do it and you know my big question going to that was John Jones has been away for a long time right John Jones is now going to put on a bunch of weight to go up to heavyweight and with the one time that we saw Johns put on weight at light heavyweight and he put on some masks when he fought OSP Oven-Same prue he put on a bunch of masks and he had one of the worst fights of his career still dominant but he did not look the same he looked slow he didn't have his his kind of timing to close the distance it wasn't quite there so that was my biggest factor how would he look with Three years away, adding all this weight, now not having the reach and the height and the speed advantage that he has on these guys normally.

Normally he controls the distance just by sticking his arm out and when they cover the distance, he puts an elbow in the face. Now he's going against Sital Gan, who's taller, longer, bigger, faster, all these things younger. He closed the distance in a matter of seconds and he put them away. That's the difference. That's why, yes, we needed to see the Francis and Ganu fight. But Francis Inganu basically took a page out of Jan Blahovic's book and said, look, I'm going to, Jan against Izzy. I'm going to, I'm the bigger guy right here. I'm going to use my skills, and I'm just going to take him down. I'm going to use my weight and lay on him because the guy

is, the guy that I'm going against is less experience on the bottom. He couldn't get up. Francis and Gano got the job done against Sitala. He laid on top of him. He got the job done. John Jones took it to another level. He closed the distance in a matter of seconds and submitted him in a matter of seconds. It shows the different levels that there are out there. John, him coming back, him doing that, him answering all the questions that we just posed about this matchup and him going up and wait, answered every question in the book for us.

And I think, listen, this is not to make an excuse for John, but I think when John was at the tail end of his light heavyweight rain, I think he was getting kind of bored. You know, I don't think he got excited by fighting Anthony Smith or Tiago Santos or Dominic Reyes. He was just kind of like going through the motions and fighting the next guy. He had already beaten all of the biggest adversaries he had with Gustafson,

Daniel Cormier, you know, all those kind of fights. And I think at that point he was just kind of waiting. He was just fighting to fight. And I think he got away from being the dominant John Jones. Like, I still have flashbacks of watching him take down Brandon Vera and just elbowing him into the mat. Like, just nightmares of that. And I think at heavyweight, for the first time in years, I think John had a real sense of fear. Like, this guy could hurt me.

This guy could absolutely knock me out of my feet. It's heavyweight. So that's why he didn't play any games. He didn't play any of the like, let's see how this thing, you know, let's not, let's test the waters, let's maybe play a little bit on the feet. No, he knew he had a big advantage of a Roeril Gond on the ground. He closed the distance, took him there, guillotined him out the door. And I think that's what John needed.

I think John needed to be afraid again because I don't think since maybe Daniel Cormier, had he really looked at a guy and said, this guy could actually compete with me. And I think that when you're so good, when you're so far ahead of the competition, you kind of fight to your level of your competition. And you kind of say, oh, well, I can beat this guy. And, you know, just kind of go out there and win. And, you know, he beats Tiago Santos. It's a split decision.

It's not a particularly great fight. It's kind of a, you know, lackless drowning. Dominic Reyes, like, at the night it happened, I thought Dominic Reyes won the fight. You know, it's kind of like that. I was like, man, this is just a bizarre performance. I think John needed to be afraid again. I think going to heavyweight provided that for him, and he wasn't playing around. He knew playing on the distance with Cyril Gama was a bad idea,

took him down, submitted him in two minutes. You know what's wild to me, Damon, about John Jones is he's the goat, right? I mean, everybody considers him the goat. And a lot of reasons, not only because he was so dominant, but you look at his resume, the names that he has beaten, the number of title defenses, the number of former champions that he has beaten, and he's still the goat. But what I'm getting at is he did this with all of the stuff that happened outside of the octagon,

with three years away, with having to give up the belt numerous times. And I can't even remember. The history is so just diluted with so many things that happen with him getting popped, with him getting a DUI, him getting arrested, him and the cocaine. So much stuff. And all that time away, all those slaps on the wrist, all those suspensions. And he still has that resume that speaks volumes amongst everybody. Like to think about that, if all those things,

hadn't to happen, can you imagine the conversation we'd be having now? I mean, he's already the goat. But if you would have added in seven more title defenses in those times that he was gone, if he never would have given up the belt, would DC have ever become champion? I mean, DC had the opportunity. He beat DC twice. DC became the champion because John Jones went away, and then DC was able to go up. What if John never went away, and he just cleaned out the division? And then he stayed the champion, and then he went up to the heavyweight division, became the double champ.

And we didn't get to see the greatness of Steepay. What if Steepay was never the heavyweight goat as well? I mean, if John Jones just stuck to fighting and didn't have all this stuff outside of the octagon, the conversation would be so, it would just be so unarguably strong about him being not only the greatest of all time, but he would be a doubleweight champion.

He probably would have cleaned out two divisions. And not only, I'm talking about, I said, But think about all the champions that have come in time as well. Like, I mean, you know, 205, guys are just the belts jumping around back and forth with everybody. Paheda and Jan and Jamal Hill and Glovercheck Shedd. Like none of these guys would have even been champion. And none of the resume that the heavyweight division, Francis Steppe, that resume may not be there for either of them. John put his nose to the road and just did what he had to do.

He would have cleaned out both divisions, and none of these guys would have even had the opportunity. But yet, with all that that he had done wrong, he's still the greatest of all time. It's just mind-boggling. It is really mind-blow when you think about all. Again, it's like, you know, it's obviously with John, you know, his time off and everything, he was a lot of it, you know,

was self-inflicted, but reminds me kind of a little bit like Michael Jordan decided I want to go play baseball for a couple of years. And, you know, comes back and wins three more, NBA titles. Right. That's a great example. You know, like when he just wasn't been an eight-time NBA champion, like no one would ever beat him in eight years.

Like, I think that's very possible with Michael Jordan. It's kind of similar. We're having the LeBron Michael Jordan talk and Michael Jordan, we play baseball for a number of years. It's crazy. It's insane, man. Yeah, but I agree. And you know, and that's the, and you're absolutely right.

Like, John Jones altered the course of history by making some pretty terrible mistakes. We understand that. But you're right. I love the way you put that. He changed history. I mean, he opened the doors for so many other fighters. He did. I mean, again, I think Daniel Cormier is one of the greatest mixed martial artists of all time.

But how different would that narrative be if he never had become champion because John Jones was always that. Like, Daniel Cormier was one of the best American wrestlers. He never became an NCAA champion. Why? Because Cail Sanderson was in his division in college. Cail Sanderson is one of the greatest American wrestlers and gold medalists. He had that guy in his way. Imagine if Daniel never became a champion how much that changes his story because John Jones was there because John Jones was just, you know, his superior when they fought.

It's wild. You just, I mean, you just mentioned it. Like I said, think about this. Like, we just saw it at this bouncing ball of light heavyweight. If he just stayed at light heavyweight until now, we would, Jamal Hill would have, I mean, I can't say for sure, of course. But like, you know, would you have bet on Glover to get the belt back against John Jones or anything? Glover fought him in his prime when Glover was a young man. John Jones was able to, you know, yeah, all these guys would have, you know, in respect to all

these guys, this isn't what I'm doing. But I'm just, I'm trying to simply speak how high of a quality fighter once in a lifetime type of talent John Jones was. And with him hurting his career, how much other fighters were able to succeed because of it. Yeah, it's, it's wild. But having him back, I don't know how much long, how long we're going to have him back for. Of course, it was unfortunate what happened in November. He tore the peck muscle.

And, you know, I know a lot of people have complained and said that, like, you know, I don't really, you know, listen, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Tom Aspinall. Him going out and getting the title in November was a great win and incredible performance over Sergey Pavlovich. But I don't really have a problem with the UFC letting John get that legacy fight with Steepa. We know why he's doing it. He wants to define himself as the greatest ever do it. And who is the greatest at UFC heavyweight of all time? It's Steepi Miochich. So, you know, I know a lot of people have complained about that.

and I understand Tom wants to have fighting things like that. But listen, something supersede. It's like George St. Pierre when he came back and he wanted to fight the title. Did it really make sense for George St. Pierre to jump over Robert Whitaker and fight Michael Bisping? No, it didn't. But he's George St. Pierre. You make certain concessions for Legends of the Sport like that. I'm fine with John doing the same thing.

The only thing that makes me sad about John is that, like, I understand, like the sand is running out on the hourglass. Like, we're not going to have him for that much longer, I don't think. and that's going to be a sad day. When he decides to hang up his gloves for good, that's going to be a tough day to because that guy has been so good for so long. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Go on.

Sorry, I was brainstorming about something else why you were saying that, but continue on, please. No, you're just unbelievable. Like I said, man, it's going to be tough when he goes away. But yeah, like I said, I have no problem with John doing what he's doing right now. He's, you know, the heavyweight champ of the world. I'm looking forward to this deep a fight. I am.

Like, I don't really care what anyone says. I'm looking forward to that fight. Looking forward to it. I just hope we don't have to wait too long, right? Because as you said, the sand and the hourglass is going away and it's going away quickly, man. These guys are getting older and injuries and, you know, a lot of times, in most cases, in most cases I'll say this. You know, well, you see two parts of it. I was going to say injuries are retired fighters, but it's not always the case.

We see just as you get older diminishing of skill. And, you know, I hate to say it against my friend Tony Ferguson, but he's the guy that's a classic example of like the diminishing. of age. But with other guys, these injuries are sometimes the case, myself and a lot of other fighters included. And you would hate to see a guy like John Jones go and have the shoulder surgery, whatever he had done, and then take eight months off and then come back and it's still plaguing him. Or he doesn't come back the same or another injury occurs now because of the initial injury. That happens a lot. And so we need to see these fights before these guys before either father time catches up with them or just father time in terms of injuries catch up

him. Look what happened to T.J. Dillershaw. Great example of that. Those shoulder surgeries. He was never the same again. He just never came back from that. And T.J., again, we can talk about the, you know, the PED stuff. But I mean, beyond that, like, he could have potentially been the greatest band to weight ever, but we'll never know because his body just couldn't hold up. And he was never the same. And he knew it. When he got that with that phyodorant, he's like, I just can't do it anymore, man. The shoulders are too banged up and I got to retire. It sucks. You know, it sucks when that happens. But yeah, I mean, having Joe, John back even for one fight this year was amazing.

Just seeing him back in there doing this thing, just absolutely rolling through a super tough guy like Cyril Gond. So I really, again, it's just John, I don't care if we get him for one fight or ten more fights. I cherish every moment we get to watch John Jones because it is just an absolute pleasure watching that guy perform. It's that Tom Brady feel, man. It's the once in a lifetime, the greatest ever do it.

Every time that you have an opportunity to watch them do something, obviously fighting. But honestly, even like, Like if John Jones is part of a press conference, I mean, this is part of history. You might not see this again. And John Jones has a way of he has this aggressive nature, this competitive nature, without affinney yell or do certain things that other fighters do. But he has a way of, man, I mean, the mind games that he plays with guys.

Because he says things so honestly that are so, such a stab in the heart to the the fighters that he's competing against, that it really, it really throws them for a spin. I mean, it's, it's not this type of trash talk that we're seeing these days. Obviously, with the Kobe Covington's and all kinds of stuff where nothing is off limits. John, John looks at you in the eye and he goes, I will defeat you. I will make you never wish you stepped foot in the Ottegon with me. And I'm all serious. And I'm going to prove it.

I am above you and I'm going to prove it on Saturday. Like he tells you stuff so honest from his heart that's so defeating to you that it throws guys for a loop because it's not the thing about man your mom or your dad or this or that. I mean, he believes in himself 100%. Think about how much and I mean, you will not find a bigger fan of Daniel Corby and the guy sitting in this chair right here. But think about how much you got to D.C.'s head. And I don't ever remember anything ever getting to that level of nastiness. I mean, they got, they went after each other pretty hardcore. but it was never to like the Colby

Cumington level but he I mean we always remember that ESPN interview the one that didn't air when they had the cameras on after and he's like he's like hey I just forget the language he's like hey pussy he's still there he got he got Daniel Corby is so mad I mean they fought on stage for Christ's

like that's just that was John's ability and I'm throwing this out there I'm not this is not something we plan to talk about I'm just saying years ago like two years ago when they were talking about it I always said man I think Francis is the one guy that could give John trouble because of the power, the more and more I thought about it, though,

the more and more I broke it down. I was like, I don't know if Francis really wanted those problems. And I love Francis and God. I think what he's doing right now, I'm happy for him, rooting for him. But I don't know that I'd pick against John Jones against anybody on planet Earth. If it's a fight happening in a cage, I don't know there's anyone I would pick against John Jones.

So I'm in agreeance when you bring up Francis just because I think there's too many holes that John, John would find a way to exploit. Power is one thing. But John Jones, he knows how to deal. with power, right? And he's shown that he's not to deal with big, fast, athletic moving guys as well. But I'll be honest,

after the Tom Aspinall fight, I felt that Tom Aspinall is the best fighter on planet Earth. After seeing what he was able to do recently, it just, it was a whole other level of fighting. And for me, that's the two best fighters on that walk planet Earth right now is Tom Aspenall

and John Jones. And that would be the dream fight. I know that doesn't quite make sense as far as where both of them are at in their career. right now. But, and all due respect to Francis. I mean, that's another fight that we desperately wanted to see probably more so, like you said, than the Sital Gahn fight. But after seeing what Tom did, I go, oh, this is the guy.

This is the youngest guy in the fact, not in the division, but in the conversation of guys that we're talking about, the youngest guy, I believe he's got the best hand speed and he's got the submission threat on the ground. He moves differently than everybody else. John and Tom Aspinall would be my dream fight. I would love to see that one too. Maybe we will see it one day. You never know.

I know John has talked about maybe retired, but one thing I've said, and I know I've talked to other people about this, like John, you know, if he beats, if he can come back and beat Steepa, he's only a couple of fights away from, you know, tying and particularly breaking the all-time heavyweight title defense record. I think that might still matter to John.

I don't know. Oh, man. Deep down, you know what I mean? So I'm just saying, like, it's still a possibility. I love these type of nuggets, right? Because we need to find ways that, as you said earlier, get John excited. What makes him stay back? His legacy is what he cares about.

The records is what he cares about. He cares deeply about this. You can tell he's a very competitive guy. And he has exceeded everybody's expectations. But if there's more levels out there to complete, why would he not continue to want to keep going? I know he's getting older. But the more that we could throw these type of conversations out there, I think there's an opportunity or a chance to try to entice John to stick around a little.

bit longer. And I, you know, you say it, and I kind of think about it. And again, I want to be clear about this. I love Francis. I'll always root for that guy. His story is incredible. But I think you're right. I think in terms of like, what's the more dangerous fight? I think Tom and John might be the more dangerous, interesting fight, because Tom just has more weapons. He doesn't just need to knock you out. And I'm not saying Francis is one-dimensional, but I don't think anyone's going to tell you that Francis is going to out-wrestle John Jones or out-graple John Jones. He can knock him out. He can knock anybody out. He can lands one punch your head goes in the fourth row. but Tom's a little more well-rounded,

so it does make for a little bit more interesting of a fight. So I didn't really think about it. But yeah, you're kind of right about that. Yeah, I mean, because Francis could obviously knock him out, tremendous power and everything, but Sergey Pavlovich could do it. I mean, Sergey Pavlovich is about as hard as you could hit. I mean, like, eventually the level of power kind of has a cutoff, right?

I mean, there's some guys that you can say, who's the hardest hitter in history? Is it Deonti Wilder? Is it George Foreman? Is it Francis Ingano? is it Sergei Pavlovich? Is it Derek Lewis? But eventually, there's a level where, look,

somebody's going to sleep anyway. So even if you have a little bit more power, it doesn't necessarily make a difference. It's about timing and precision, precision, and being able to land it at opportune moments. And so you have to take the power and couple it with guys that could have these other type of timing and precision things.

And Francis could do it, but Sergey could do it. Tom Aspinall could do it. And you saw what happened when Tom Aspinall matched up against Sergei Pavlovich, she was able to land it and put it at the right time. And as you said, but now he also has the ground game, the grappling, the takedown ability. Not only is there a black belt and jiu-jitsu, but he's got grappling. He takes people down and he moves. I think he's faster on the feet and on the hands than all these guys were talking about.

I know all of a sudden I steered this story into Tom Aspinall, but I just want to make myself clear. John Jones is the best fighter, whoever lived. He is the goat. at this point in his career John Jones would have to prove to me that he could beat Tom because I have Tom as the favorite if they ever matched up.

That would be interesting. We'll see if it ever happens. Like I said, lots of things to look forward to in 2024. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo. Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games

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Moving on into later this year, and I'm kind of jumping into two stories into one, because I was going to mention one as an upset, but I was like, I can't mention one without talking about the other. Of course, in May, was it April or May, I think it was April, Alexa Grosso pulled off the incredible upset to defeat Valentina Chocinco and become flyweight champion. Now, they rematched, got to be honest with the Allen. I thought Valentina won that fight. I thought it was a bad call.

It was a draw. I think we're going to see it again in 2024, but no one can take away from that performance from Alexa Grosso down on the score. score cards. Close fight, but down on the score cards. Valentina throws that ill-advised kick. Alexa gets her backs and chokes her out. And then in September, I'm jumping around a little bit here. Sean Strickland. Nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody picked him to beat Israel out of Sonia.

If you did, you were probably his training partner or his friend. Okay, you were not, no one was picking Sean Strickland. We can talk ourselves into the blue in the face saying, well, if he did this, if he did this, but the end result was nobody was picking him of those like there's one because it's wild we got two of those a one year we get one of those in a year it's a pretty amazing thing valentina strachinko would have been the number one pound for pound woman by a wide margin if amanda nunez didn't exist Israel at asania even though he had lost to Alex we all knew and then he gets the revenge on Alex it looks like we were just going back

into the Adasania era like oh he had that one blip on the radar he lost Alex, he got his revenge, now he's champ again. Okay, start lining him up for Israel to knock him down. And then here comes. Does one upset stand out in your mind a little ahead of the other? Because I'm dumbfounded to see which one's bigger. Because at the time, Alexei Grasso was like kind of in the same position as Sean Strickland. No one was picking her.

Yeah, I mean, it's Sean Strickland over Israel out of sign. As much of the beautiful performance it was by Alexa Grasso and getting the finish over such a dominant champion. But it was the way that it put together. Sean Strickland was his guy that he was a welterweight at one time. He was a guy that has, you know, his losses up and down, a handful of losses, some fights that were kind of close. He was kind of becoming a guy that was a really tough guy to fight, talked a lot of trash.

But he was kind of like an apex guy, right? They put him on the main event at the apex. He wins some. He loses some. And then he gets his fight on somewhat short. Notice against Israel out of Sonia. And I remember doing a show with someone. and we were breaking down this fight.

And they were basically saying, not only is he going to get the win, he's going to do so within round one or two, and he's going to make it look super easy. And I remember thinking, I don't know if that's accurate. I don't know if that's going to happen because Sean Strickland is a guy

that doesn't make things look easy. He just has a way about him. He's like a survivor. You know, like he knows how to make fights ugly. And he's found a rhythm, a style, something about being awkwardly effective with his style that he's mastered the awkwardly effectiveness. And he's gotten so good at that. Now, did I pick Sean the win? No.

Did I think he would win? Absolutely not. Did he not only win, did he go in there and drop the champ? Did he beat up on the champ? I mean, it was as good of a performance as you could have imagined. Because if you had got one lucky punch or something, it would have been like people saying, Alexa Grasso got kind of lucky that that Shafchenko made a mistake.

But there was no mistake here when you get beat up by Sean Strickland for the majority of five rounds. I mean, it was the most shocking thing that a lot of us has seen in quite a while. And what I remember most, I don't know about you, but for me,

the most impactful thing about that night was not only just the win for Sean Strickland, but his interview. Something about his interview after. We saw a different side of Sean that we had never seen before. A guy that normally talks a bunch of trash, gets in people's heads.

He's kind of throws, he doesn't like, he's brash, but he's kind of humble in a way. He doesn't like to, like, be known as the champion. Or, like, you know, he doesn't feel like that. He feels like an everyday normal type of guy. And when all of a sudden the bright lights and everything was on him and the gold,

the belt was on him, you saw him kind of deflect. Like, he didn't want that. He didn't want to feel like I'm above everybody because he had been such a normal guy his whole life. And it kind of really, I feel like that moment, not only was it the win, but it was the moment, the interview that made a lot of people go,

man, he says crazy stuff, but this guy is relatable. This guy is just like you and me. This guy had trouble in his past, didn't have a great upbringing, says a bunch of crazy stuff, but he goes out there and believes in himself, and he freaking shocked the world.

And I felt like, going into that fight, I thought the worst thing in the world would be for Sean the win because if this huge, arguably one of their biggest stars in Israel out of Sonia, they created a star out of Sean Trickland, a guy that I believe will sell pay-per-views, a guy that people are intrigued to see to win or lose to see what's going to come out of his mouth, see what's going to happen, see if he shows vulnerability again, but they have a star now, a guy that people are just curious to see because he's relatable more so than any of the other champions.

an authenticity to Sean Strickland, whether you love him or hate him, that is real. And I'll be honest. I said this, I said this to somebody else. I said I was talking to Sam Alvey, who trained with Sean recently. And I was talking him about it. And I said, I don't like a lot of what Sean says. He says a lot of crazy things that I don't agree with. I'm not going to go down the list of them.

But he says a lot of crazy things I don't agree with. But lately, I've kind of found myself becoming a Sean Strickland fan. a little bit. Like there's something to his authenticity. He's just really who he is. And I said this to somebody else after the Colby Covington fight with Leon Edwards. I said, Sean Strickland is who Colby Covington wishes he could be. He's got that blue collar mentality off the cuff. He could be hilarious at times. You know, I think when he had that press conference with Israel out of Sanya like a year before they fought, when he was fighting Alex, which didn't work out too well for Sean that night. But he had Israel flustered when he did the whole comment

about, I'm not going to lose to a guy who jerks off to cartoons. We all remember that line. Yeah. And Israel got flustered. He did. Like, watch that press comments. I don't think he saw that coming that Sean Strickland was going to be coming out of left field. And it was so funny and so of the moment. And it was just authentically Sean Strickland. And I said, Colby wishes he could be Sean. because Sean just says what he wants and he's funny. Does he say things offensive sometimes? Absolutely. But he's just authentically himself.

And for him to go out there and do what he did to Israel out of Sonia, you know, getting the knockdown in round one was super impressive. And he had finished her right then. Boy, what a story that would have been. But in a weird way, I think beating him the way he did over five rounds was even more impressive because I still remember sitting in a Buffalo Wild Wings watching Matt Sarah and knockout George St. Pierre, and everyone's like, this is the craziest upset it was,

probably still the greatest upset in mixed martial arts history. But he caught him, and he heard him, and he finished him. What happened in the rematch? Wasn't close. I was there that night in Montreal. It wasn't particularly close. Joy, GSP dominated him and finished him. It wasn't particularly a great fight.

For Sean to go out there, get the knockdown early, lose the second round. Remember, Israel came back and won the second round, and then Sean just shut him down the rest of the fight. fight. That blew me away. That was one of the best performances I've ever seen. And in a weird way, I think Sean Strickland's becoming a star. I really do. I think people are really attracted to this guy. And again, love him or hate him. He is authentically Sean Strickland. And you know, Sean has a way of being political. I don't know if I'm saying this correctly without being political.

but I think the way that the world is right now where people are kind of having a visualization and saying, you know what, I'm kind of not happy the way things are, kind of want to be somewhere in between or this or that. And I think that's what Sean is. Sean says a lot of crazy stuff. But out of very crazy thing that Sean says

is one or two things that he says that kind of makes some sense. And then he comes out and shows this genuineness about himself. And you're like, you know what? Like he has points. He just doesn't always say him the right way. and some things he says are very off the wall, but there's some things that he says they're very good.

But you know what Sean starts to remind me of right now? There's a comparison I can make between Sean and Mike Perry, where early in both of these guys' careers, they were crazy and they were unlikable. And they said stuff and they had a fan base, but it was a smaller fan base because they looked, this fan base liked the destructive, the chaotic, like the things that he would say that both of these guys would say and do,

but everyone knew that these guys could deliver, these guys could fight, but you were torn, right? This guy's kind of crazy, but so I'm going to follow him because of that. You've seen this kind of full circle that Sean has taken now, where now we're kind of finding out who he is,

and he's actually a good person. It just has a little bit of crazy side to him, right? And the same as with Mike Perry, because now I feel like we see this almost more humble Mike Perry, A guy that's just grateful to where he's at in life, a guy that has a family now and is supporting himself and has made a bunch of money and he's super successful. And he's almost at this level now when he was a dog

trying to climb above water like Sean. He was a mean, aggressive son of a bitch. And now that both of these guys have reached the top that they maybe thought they never would reach, they're like, I've got so much to be grateful for and you're certain to see that. And now it's like, me and Mike Perry hated each other when we fought. I am such a fan of Mike Perry now.

Like, I mean, I just love to see him do what he does. And just the way that he says things now, it's, it's been kind of like, it's been kind of like shaped. He still says some crazy stuff. But man, he's a much different dude now with a little bit of crazy. And Sean's the same way. He's still a crazy dude. But he's a different guy. He's kind of, both guys have kind of opened up for us in the world.

And we've kind of found a way to fall in love of both of them. Yeah, it's funny you say that because. when Mike Perry first came in, I was like, I don't really want to talk to this guy. Like, this guy just seems like he's just out there and he's going to say some off-the-wall shit, and I'm just not down for it. And now lately, Mike Perry's become one of my favorite interviews. I love talking to that guy. He's so funny and smart and just he gets it.

Like, he gets it now. And I told him, I said, I think having a family made a huge difference for him. I think having his wife and kids just kind of calmed him down and got things right. And I wonder, because I just had this conversation with, with Eric Nixick, who is Sean Strickland's head coach. I was like, you know, what kind of a teammate is Sean Strickland? He's like, dude, he's like, he doesn't want the publicity. He doesn't want the accolades.

But like when he traveled to Saudi Arabia with Francis Ngano to get him ready for Tyson Fury, he's like, Sean was basically taking my place at the gym, running practices, running drills, gym. And people loved it. Like he was the head coach more or less. And he's like, but he never wants it. He doesn't want you. He doesn't need that publicity.

he doesn't want it, but he's a great guy like that. He will help you. And I saw a video where he said, like, right after his fight, he's like, oh, yeah, I'll be back in the gym to help you get ready for your fight. Like, that's just the kind of guy he is. He's just a weirdly good dude who likes to say really crazy things. And I think now we're starting to see that wheel turn on him a little bit where people are starting to appreciate him.

And do I agree with everything he says? Absolutely not. Do I think he goes off the wall sometimes? 100%. but again, I think he's just being authentically Sean Strickland and I'm weirdly learning to appreciate it. You remember when Conner McGregor, he had lots of stages in his career, but when Connor McGregor came onto the scene,

he was the new toy. Everybody, he was this new exciting thing. And then he started to show signs of, like, greatness and the charisma and everybody started to see his personality. And he was dressing up in his suits, etc., etc. You know the story. And then he became this larger-than-life thing that everybody loves. I mean, I say everybody, but you get what I'm saying.

He was this superstar. Nobody had a bunch of negative stuff to say about him yet. I mean, if you said one thing on social media about Connor McGregor, you would get one million comments dragging you under the bus. It's very different now. When Connor McGregor started to kind of dip off and he started to get equal amount of haters and such, I find, could be wrong about this, but I find it was when he kind of detached himself from the normal guy at the gym.

Remember when guys were talking about he's not part of the club anymore. I can't remember which fighter this was, but I thought it was a very good point that like he doesn't feel like he's part of the pack. He's not going to walk into the PI and train with guys. He's not going to go to the press conference and kind of talk after and kind of do the normal things that normal fighters do. Because unless you have beef with people, specifically, we all kind of mingle and get to know each other and have a level of respect because you're going to see each other so often. You see each other at events, at signings, all kinds of stuff other. other than just fight weak, right? I mean, fighters are always in the mix running into each other.

And so there's this level of respect. Connor McGregor at one point got so big that he detached himself from that. And fighters started to push back from him because he was different. He was almost above them. And the fans started to kind of push back too because they didn't see that same kind of like young guy that was, you know, got my first suit, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm ready to spend money. It wasn't fun anymore.

It wasn't genuine. What I'm getting at is Sean Strickland will never become that. Sean Strickland doesn't want to become that. He doesn't want to be above the guys at the gym. He's still the guy in there with 20 guys and he wants to get around in with every single guy, even if you're the first guy, your first day at the gym. He wants to get in around with you and test you and make sure that you're worthy to be in this tribe, in this pack. And then when the class is done, you see it in Eric Nick Sixth stories all the time.

He's the guy there scrubbing the mat. He's cleaning the mats. He doesn't want it. He has an uncomfortability about being above that. And I think that's what you appreciate about him. He doesn't want to be above the average guy. He wants to still be an average guy. Yeah, I love that.

And like I said, I've weirdly become a fan of him. And like I said, he was a guy that was like, oh, God, when this guy becomes champion, it's going to get ugly. And weirdly, like I said, I think that he has become what Colby Covington wishes he was. Like, Colby, you can tell. Colby's always rehearsed and, you know, writing his lines down and trying to, you know, get under people's skin that way. And Sean's just Sean.

Like he just says what's on his mind. Love him or hate him. That's just who he is. He's not playing a character. He's not doing what Colby's doing. He's like, I'm going to create this character and build my entire personality around Donald Trump or whatever it is. And I'm not just sitting there trying to take digs on Colby. But I think there's like a weird similarity between them.

And as I said, I think Colby, I think Sean Strickland is who Colby wishes he was. Off the cuff, blue collar, funny guy, says some dumb things, but can also say some really hilarious things and get under people's skin. and I think that's who Sean is. And again, pulling off an incredible upset this year. And again, certainly not to diminish what Alexa Grasso pulled off. We can't ignore that as incredible as her submission went to the throne, Valentina Chepchenko was. We also had the rematch, you know, five months later, whatever it was.

And in my opinion, Valentina won. So it's a little harder because, you know, they're kind of stuck in this one-in-one situation where they're going to fight again next year. and so we'll really hopefully get some closure to that story. As I said, you can't ignore it happen. Does it diminish her incredible upset win? No, but we can't ignore that they ran it back months later. And again, I personally think Valentina won that fight.

And now we'll see it again in 2024. And, you know, hopefully they settle things and we won't have a debate anymore. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think the majority of people watching the night thought the same thing that Valentina did enough to win it. But yeah, it was a tremendous upset and a great moment. with for Grasso. And then it was also kind of, she helped kind of be part of that resurgence of the Mexican crowd, right? The Mexican fighting spirit, the guys that all of a sudden we had, who's it, Yayao Rodriguez, Brandon Moreno, and then Alexa Grasso champions all at the same time.

And I was, I remember, I remember making this soundbite that Mexico is now the new Brazil, where the Mexican fighting talent is starting to really come to the forefront and we're starting to have these champions are certain to be guys in the pack leaders. And now she's the only one left, right? Kind of wild. How quickly things change. I said, man, the UFC needs to take all three of these down to have a show in Mexico. And then six months later, only one of them has left his champion.

Speaking of leaving his champion, one of the biggest, like it's so weird, like I said, this year feels like it flew by. But an event that actually happened six months ago, but it feels like a lifetime ago now, was Amanda Nunes defending her title against Irene Aldana and then retiring afterwards. And we've, you know, listen, everyone, I always feel and I hope and I wish and I just beg for it that more fighters will have an exit like Robbie Lawler did when he knocks out, you know, Nico Price and it's an incredible moment. We always remember that and he walks away. Amanda Nunes is defending her title, Domina performance. She lays down the title in the center of the octagon as she gets up and walks away.

wish we had more moments like that in George St. Pierre, people who leave on top because it's so rare, Kibbna Mbago Madov. Because sadly, more times often than not, we get the other side, which is, I hate to use him as an example, it's kind of like the Tony Ferguson or like the BJPen, where a guy goes out on, you know, multiple losses that gets kind of ugly and you kind of feel bad for it. But has there ever been a fighter that has left and retired and left a bigger chasm, a bigger gaping hole in a pair of divisions than Amanda Nune. I mean, the featherweight division's done. Like, it's gone.

Like, they're not going to promote it anymore. And that title's been vacant for six months. We're not even going to crown a champion until January for that division because they were trying to figure out what do you do now that a man. Like, when you think about it, like Amanda Nunes is clearly the best women's fighter of all time. I don't think anyone can debate that. But talk about leaving and retiring and then the divisions just don't know where to go.

They're gone. Yeah. I mean, that's what, it's a beautiful thing when it can be beautiful when, when a great one retires, but it's more beautiful when it's the changing of the guard, right? The passing of the guard from the old lion to the young lion. And then it makes sense. The older person has done what they had to do. They've gotten older.

They've moved on. And now there's a new guy that's in place, the guy or girl, to defend the throne and also to kind of show their greatness. right because their greatness has been untapped yet they have so much to show and when someone like Amanda Nunes runs through a division for so long and there's no clear second place then we're left of what we have it's just it's much like John Jones but at least with the John Jones case we had a guy like DC or somebody that was the clear second place the clear runner you know like a couple years two ago you look at Israel out of Sonia and and And he was beating the hell out of everybody except for the former champion.

Why can't I, the Australian. Robert Whitaker. Robert Whitaker, who's not even Australian. But you get my point to this, right? There was always a lot of these divisions had a champion and they had a clear cut number one guy. They didn't have that. They didn't have that with Amanda Nunes. She was just destroying everyone.

Yes, you know, she lost that one fight. She came back and dominated after. But after that, the division. is left with what if it would have been nice if somebody would have been there at least close to her level at a young enough age to say look this is going to be the next person in line you know like when we look at the walterweight division right now and it's not in the same state right now but i think a lot of us feel like shopcott is probably going to be a future champion i think belal obviously is the next guy in line that's a whole other debate but there's people that are up and

coming through the system that are clearly working their way to this. top and show so potential to be a champion but there was none of that in the division of amanda nunas left and it left us kind of um appreciative for what she had done but not knowing where to go afterwards yeah it's kind of weird it's funny you say that because like you know i know like everyone will say well she lost to juliana pania well she got juliana pania came back and amanda absolutely dominated her in the rematch and listen this is not a knock on juliana but i'm just pointing this out because it's a fact. Giuliana doesn't have a single win over anyone on the current UFC roster.

You know what I mean? Like we can't ignore that. Like, yes, she does have the win over Amanda Nunes. And should that count for something, absolutely. But she hasn't, she never had to go through Holly Holme, never had to go through Misha Tate, never had to go through, you know, Raquel Pennington, any of the other top five, six fighters in the world. Like Juliana Pena got her title shot off one win.

I mean, you know, her biggest fights up to that point have been losses. She lost to Germain Durand Dammy. She lost to Valenciennes. Chonko. You know, she had been out for a long time. So that's why the number two argument doesn't work there because I don't think anyone really, even though Giuliana pulled off the upset, I don't think anyone really looked at it and said, man, she's the clear cut number two. Everyone looked at it and said that was just a really big upset. And then Amanda righted the ship and came back and absolutely beat the brakes off her in the rematch. But yeah, it's so

crazy. Like generally speaking, when a champion retires, when George St. Pierre left well to weight, we all kind of felt like Johnny Hendricks was, you know, a good replacement because Johnny had taken George to the breaking point in a super close fight. George left. Johnny stepped in, had that great fight with Robbie Lawler. We were okay moving on. You know what I mean? John Jones leaving is kind of similar, as you mentioned, like, because Light Heavyweight

has been in such a weird situation since then with 18 different champions, it seems like. But man, like Amanda retiring literally, she killed one division because there's no more featherweights. And Bant's weight has just never looked the same. Definitely the most impactful retirement for a division, for multiple division, as you said. I mean, she was carrying both of those. What she did that night against Chris Seibor going up, I didn't think she was going to do that. I thought Chris Seaborg was the baddest woman walking planet Earth. I really truly believe that.

And that was the night that made me become a really big fan of a man. I mean, because I was there friends with Chris. I was watching that live. Like, you know, I had known Chris somewhat, you know, on a fighter level. But I was there kind of rooting for her. And then watching Amanda Nunes get carried off on her shoulders in front of me after knocking out Chris Cyborg, you go, holy shit. This just changed everything.

This became everything. And she had such a dominant run after that. And to walk away. Now, as you said, no more 45, 35 is in shambles. There's not a lot of entire. icing fights left as well. Not only is there a number two player cut, but who's selling the fights?

I mean, who's the people? The thing that Giuliana Pena has going for her is she has realized how to play the game very well. She could talk trash, man. And even if a lot of the stuff that she says doesn't always make sense when you look at some of the facts that you brought up in their rematch and how the fights went and all this stuff,

but she sells it, right? She sells it. So at least we have that, somebody that's going to talk trash, and get on the mic, She knows how to give good sound bites. But that's one person. And if that one person can't deliver in the octagon, what more do we have?

Somebody's going to have to step up. I mean, it's a great opportunity for young fighters. You know, division is wide open right now. But it needs to feel that gap very soon before people start saying, I can't take another 135 women main event. I mean, Amanda Nunes was the main event at UFC 200 if I'm correct, right? I mean, there's no way. Another girl's, a ban on weight girl is going to be doing anything like that.

Yeah, it's wild. It's wild. Yeah, you don't, like I said, there's not really that namely. Even like Demetrius Johnson, most dominant flyweight champion. You lost to Henry Sehudo, division moved on. Now, of course, Demetrius is still one of the greatest fighters of all time. But we've, you know, we've had Brandon Moreno and Devis and Figurator, that incredible rivalry. Now we got Pantosia.

We've moved on light heavyweight again, even though it took a while. Like, I think we're all kind of excited to see guys like, you know, like Alex Pereer and Jamal Hill. what an incredible fight that could be. Oh, yeah. You know, those kind of fights. But like, Meyer Bueno Silva's fighting Raquel Pennington in January, and it almost feels like an afterthought.

Like, we're all like, oh, okay, they're fighting. It's going to be for a title, but, you know. You know what's a weird one as well for me, Damon? I don't want to go too far back with this. But you look at the history of the sport, Jiu-Jitsu, which started it with the gray season, and then the well-rounded MMA fighters came in instead of having success. And then there was a long period where,

wrestlers, wrestlers were dominating, right? You had to be a wrestler. I mean, it was just like everybody was just drilling at home. You got to be a wrestler. You got to be able to take somebody down if you're going to be in the top five, top ten. And I feel like now we're at this point where strikers have kind of taken back over again. I mean, look at all the guys that have been having success. Alex Baheda, a two-division champion that a guy that's only been fighting for MMA for a couple of years coming straight out of glory and having such success. And, and having such success and you look at Jamal Hill I mean I don't want to say

that Tom Aspinall is just a striker because he's so good everywhere but look at the heavyweight division we talk about Francis and Gano Cittal Tom Aspinall Sergey Pavlovich Derek Lewis they're all freaking knockout artists none of these guys are Kane Velazquez guys they're all freaking knockout guys and all these guys are

finding just tremendous amount of success in the UFC again and just to kind of close out here as we kind of wrap up some 2023 talk Sean O'Malley. Another example of that. Sean O'Malley, yes. I, listen, I'll be the first admit, I think I picked against Sean O'Malley

like four times. I'm like, I'm just like every time, like I didn't think he was going to be Al Jameen Sterling. I thought that was a terrible matchup for him. I was like, man, I don't think he's going to be Peter Yon. I think that's a really bad matchup for him. I'm like Peter Yon is a monster, great boxer, blah, blah, blah. Sean O'Malley continues to prove people wrong. And, you know, listen,

you know, he's a star. There's no doubt about that. But star power doesn't always equate wins. You know what I mean? You could be a star. You know, if star power mattered, Connor would have been knocked out by Dustin Poirier. It wouldn't have, you know, all these things wouldn't happen.

That doesn't matter, though. It's the fight game. And Sean O'Malley went out there, and I'll be honest. Like, that to me was one of my most shocking results, even though, again, I didn't think it was nearly as much of a gap between those two as I thought between, let's say, Sean Strickland and Israel out of Sanya or even Alexa Grasso and Valentina and

Shofchenko. But Sean went out there and did this thing. Do I still feel deep down inside the UFC did Al Jemaine a little dirty by making him fight in August after he just went five rounds with Suhudo and May? Yes. But I always say, once you sign that contract, the excuses have to go out the door. And listen, do I understand like Volcanowski was on, you know, nine days notice, 10 days notice? Of course, you took the fight. The result was you got head kick knocked out.

Al Jameen took the fight and Sean O'Malley knocked him out. So kudos to Sean O'Malley for getting that job. because I'll be honest, I didn't think that was going to happen. Very impressed with Sean O'Malley and what he has done. I was the same as you. I was on the fence about Sean O'Malley when he first came into the UFC because anytime the UFC puts that big hype train on you and you start kind of getting the privileges,

it kind of makes a lot of people kind of step back and be like, well, how good is he or is he getting the right matchups and so-and-so? It's just brought on to you, you know, and maybe you didn't even ask for it, but when you start getting their privileges and they start marketing you more than everybody else, you have to feel, well, I don't quite know where the ceiling is yet or the floor

because we haven't seen this person in this particular situation. And so when the Peoria Yon fight came about, I go, okay, we're about to find out very fast where Sean O'Malley is at. And even though I have to go back and rewatch that fight one day, but initially I had to score for Piotr-Jon. I'll be honest. I had Pior de Yon winning. I thought, but I thought O'Malley fought great.

And I thought that O'Malley showed one thing that we haven't seen out of him, and it's hard. Because in all of his fights, he's played sniper. He hasn't been able to take damage or what happens when he gets taken down or beat up on the inside. And he showed that he could overcome some of those obstacles and he gets to win over Peter Yan. And from then on, I go, okay, he proved himself.

There's no more Dana White privilege or whatever you want to call it because he just beat Peter Yan. And then for him to come back and top that off with that spectacular knockout over Aljo. It showed he's the real deal. He's the real deal. So he has earned my respect. I was just on the fence about him for a while

just because of the way that it played out. But yeah, man, he is, the UFC cannot be more happy with a guy like Sean O'Malley in terms of he's homegrown, you know, in terms of the guy from Dana White Continental Series. And I think Jamal Hill was on Continental Series as well. But O'Malley was one of the first guys. The first breakout stars from the Contended series came in and just rode his way through the division.

Spectacular knockout after spectacular knockout. Learn to play the part. You saw his character start to be more defined. His hair get a little bit more dyed, a little bit more tattoos, a little bit more outrageous things. As he got better, as he climbed his way to the top. And Dana White has talked about the numbers. Like Sean O'Malley, he drives in the numbers, things that he does. It gets hits.

It gets views. and he's homegrown. I mean, so that worked out beautifully for the, for the UFC. You know, he's obviously got a big matchup coming up. I believe he's fighting Cheeto in Miami. Is that correct on that Miami card? UFC 299. Yep, that's correct.

A lot of people saying Cheetah's going to eat them up in this one. And you know what? Cheeto's my guy, but I don't know anymore. I don't know. I don't know because you look at the way the initial matchup was going. Sean was longer and faster. And Sean was landing more devastating leg kicks into that one kick landed. And look, that's a clear-cut loss.

O'Malley needs to accept that. He lost a fight. But O'Malley has gotten much better since then as well, I believe. And that's going to be a banger, man. But respect to O'Malley and what he's done. It is. I want to close out on this, Alan, because as we close down 2023, you know, the UFC's had another record-breaking year for attendance,

revenue, profit, all these things across the board. And one thing that I think we learned about the UFC in 2020 is that as unpredictably, as unpredictably predictable as it's been because every time I'm like, this could never happen and then it happens. I need to stop saying this can never happen because it always happens. But I think what we saw this year and what we're going to see going into 2024

is that the UFC machine is rolling at such a pace and such a momentum that we are seeing new stars emerge. We are seeing Sean O'Malley, who is legitimately a star. I think, I really do believe I think Sean Strickland is becoming a bit of a star.

You know, there's a lot of guys coming up. I think Tom Aspinall is going to be a big draw. I think Leon Edwards has that potential. He needs to fight a lot, Muhammad, but he has that potential. I think what we're seeing right now is just like the EOC is such a machine right now. It's going to be really interesting to see who is the next person to emerge in there because it's kind of crazy. Like every time, and I know Dana says this all the time, and he's absolutely right. What are you going to do when Chuck Liddell retires? Well, guess what? Someone's going to come along. What are you going to do when Connor's not around? Connor hasn't fought since 2021 and 2022 and 2020 and 2020.

were two of the best years ever for the UFC. I'm not saying that Connor coming back is not going to be a big deal next year, but I mean, it's pretty clearly shown the UFC will survive without Connor McGregor. I'm just kind of curious, like, we're sitting here talking about Sean Strickland and Alexa Grasso and Sean O'Malley. Who's going to be that in 2024? I can't put my finger on it because I was shocked at those results.

I can't say there and tell you right now, oh, yeah, it's going to be, you know, it's going to be Iliot-Tiporia. Maybe it's going to be Ilya-Tiporia. Maybe it's going to be Dracus duplice. maybe it's going to be Chita Vera. Maybe it's going to be Marab when he finally gets his shot. Maybe it's going to be Bilal Muhammad when he finally gets his shot. I don't know.

I don't have an answer for you, but there's going to be more like this next year. We can pretty much guarantee that. UFC is a well-oiled machine. And what you just mentioned about what are you going to do when Chuck Ladell or something? That's what I love about the UFC is it always baffles me when a fighter drops out, when a main event drops out and we and and and I'm going what are they going to do and they find somebody that's equally or better I mean you saw that with hamzat shimayev and usman taking the place and and I mean so many times this year we talked about it with with alexina vokanasi

going to the double champ I mean competing against Islam um going up a way class like the roster is so deep and there's so many talented fighters eager to fight and make money that they always seem to find a way to make it right, right. And who's going to be the stars? I think you're on the right track. I think as much as it pains me to stay it, not for any dislike, because I think Ilya is just, I mean, he is the man. He is so good.

I love watching the striking, but it's because of my love for Alexander Volcanowski. But Ilya, if he wins that fight with these two guys, now you've got a star. I mean, this guy looks the part, he fights the part, he plays the part, He's got style about him. He's got this kind of poise about him. He's a mean dude, but he kind of, he reminds me of like a movie character, like a Jason Statham or something. He's got that kind of that swagger about him.

And the guy could fight his ass off. If he gets to win, now we're talking about going maybe to his home country or somewhere else. And you look at Drichis duplice. Oh, my God. I mean, we're just talking about how much we love Sean Tricklin. But who's going to win that fight? Who really knows? Who really knows?

You got two bulls locking horns. Drick's Duplice, Sean Trickland did the UFC, all the favors in the world with that fight outside of the Octagon last weekend. They've got everything they need to make that a huge fight. If Drichish Duplice happens to win that fight, we already said that the UFC is touching down in Africa next year. That's what Dana White has said. Now you've got another African star, a champion going and we're touching down over there.

I mean, the possibilities right now, man. I mean, it's going to be a fun year. But I think those are definitely of the known fight. fighters, Dricka Tupacian, uh, Elia Tuporia are two guys that think that can really make them mark next year, but I'm also eager just to see who's the guys that are coming up that we don't quite know about

that are going to make more of a name for themselves next year. It's going to be great, man. Like I said, we already got a lot of big cards. We didn't even talk. We're doing a year in review, but you see 300 coming in April. It's going to be huge. I mean, it's going to be massive. The cards getting announced pretty soon, they said, man, they're teething us with it.

It's going to be crazy. I can only imagine. Like, I know, like I was at UFC 200. I didn't get to go to UFC 100. I was at UFC 200. I can only imagine what they're going to try to put together for UFC 300, man. I just know it's going to be crazy. It's going to be a lot of good fights on there. I hope Jim Miller ends up getting on the car, which would be so awesome. All kinds of possibilities, man. There's a lot coming in 2024. It's kind of hard to put a bow on 2023. But the year is pretty much wrapped up. I look forward to what's coming next. Alan, what are you going on in the new year? I know you're always so busy. Do you got any assignments anything you get coming up in the new year?

I think I'm on the first chord of the year, man, January 13th at the apex get things rocking and rolling. And then, you know, I'm on them for a bunch. And I was hoping to go another place that they're going, man, Saudi Arabia is the first time. I believe they're touching down over there. A whole other market over there, which I wish I was on that chord because I got this feeling, Damon, that Christiana Ronaldo is going to show up. And if he shows up and I'm not there, oh, my God. I don't think I'm ever going to forgive myself for my son.

My son is like, he's like been telling me I have to find a way to like cross. paths with Christiana somehow in our lifetime, which I don't know how I would ever do that. That might be the opportunity. So I'm kind of hoping he doesn't go because I'm not on that card. But yeah, a bunch of Apex card, man. And we're going to Atlantic City in March. So I'm looking forward to that one. I've never been to Atlantic City.

That should be a real fun crowd to be a part of. Absolutely. Well, Alan, keep up the great work. Obviously, you've got lots of stuff coming up in the new year. As I always say, I know every time we talk, I say this. I hope we get to hear you calling some fights in the UFC in the near future, contender series, whatever it is. I know you do with LFA. I'd love to see you get the chance

to do it more than the UFC in the new year, join that broadcast team. And man, thank you as always for doing this. It's always a blast breaking up some fights. It has been a blast looking back at 2023. And I cannot wait for 2024. I appreciate that, man. Always fun, brother.

Absolutely. We'll talk soon. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay. Only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first... There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.