MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Aaron Pico Finally Ready To Be A Champion, Max Rohskopf Details Return After Being ‘Done’ With Fighting

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Bellator 286 fighters Aaron Pico and Max Rohskopf join the show. Once touted as possibly the best prospect to enter the sport of mixed martial arts, Pico faced more than a few hurdles living up to his full potential after starting his career with a 4-3 record. Nobody gave up hope on Pico but he still had to rebuild himself and now he stands on the precipice of title contention with his upcoming fight scheduled against Jeremy Kennedy. For all the wins Pico has amassed recently, is he finally ready to ascend to the top of the featherweight division and become champion? Pico addresses those expectations and he also offers some advice to another super prospect in Bo Nickal, who has been receiving similar praise early in his fight career. Also on the show this week, Max Rohskopf joins the show for the first time to preview his upcoming return to action after inking a deal to join the Bellator roster. Rohskopf is best remembered for his short stint with the UFC that ended after he wouldn’t leave his corner at the end of the second round, and he was branded a quitter before being released from the promotion. At that point, Rohskopf was done with fighting and had no intentions of ever making a return to the cage, but what changed and how did it eventually lead him to Bellator? Hear that from Rohskopf along with his own struggles with mental health and how he wants to help fight back against the stigma for other fighters seeking similar help. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible.

Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm your host, as always, Damon Martin. And this week we are back with a brand new show. Coming off a week without a UFC event, which is a rarity these days. we are actually rolling into another event with the UFC returning this weekend. McKenzie Dern taking on Yan, John Nann in the main event. Of course, we had McKinsey Dern on the podcast last week. We've also got a Bellator event coming up this weekend,

one championship's got two events this week, and BKFC returns with the title fight and the debut of former UFC heavyweight Ben Rothwell. This week on the podcast, we're going to be welcoming in two guys who are going to be getting a lot of attention on the Bellator card coming up this weekend. and Aaron Pico long considered one of the best prospects to ever enter the sport of mixed martial arts. He is actually going to be making his return to action against Jeremy Kennedy in a fight that could very well determine a number one contender in the featherweight division.

Of course, the featherweight title is also going up for grabs on the same card with Patricio Pitbull taken on Adam Borks. But interesting with Aaron Pico, of course, you know, for all the talk and hype and buzz around a guy like Bo Nicol, who is incredible and potentially a future UFC champion, And a couple years ago, that was Aaron Pico. Aaron Pico was the guy. Aaron Pico was the prospect. Aaron Pico was the one everyone thought was going to be a future champion.

And he had a tough start to his crew in four and three in his first seven fights. Probably got matched up against opponents that were a little bit too high level for him at that point in his career. Was doing well against Adam Borks before he got caught by a flying knee and got knocked out. Since that time, Aaron Pico's turned things around. and so he's fighting Jeremy Kennedy coming up this weekend with a chance to potentially earn a title fight. We're also going to be talking a little bit later to a fighter who unfortunately came to notoriety

for all the wrong reasons, and that's Max Rochkopf. Of course, he is the former UFC fighter who took a fight on short notice, lost after he refused to come out for a round and essentially got accused of quitting, got released from the UFC a matter of days later. Guys signed on short notice.

Let's not forget that. Got signed in short notice, took a fight with Austin Hubbard, looked good early, got exhausted, and the moniker that he built at that point was he quit. He walked away, quit, he couldn't go, no moss. And, you know, Dana White had comments about it, and days later he got released from the O.C.

No second chances. He's since, you know, basically walked away, was done fighting. Ended up going to Cage Warriors, getting a couple of wins, and now he's going to be joining the Bellator roster, starting on Saturday with his debut, and we're going to talk to Max about his future, but also coming out of what he went through, you know, kind of gaining that reputation and dealing with the mental health struggles he had after that fight.

The mental health struggles coming, you know, even decided to come back and do the sport again, which is saying something because, you know, he was pretty much done. I mean, I wasn't pretty much, you'll hear him in the interview, he was done. He wasn't pretty much done. He wasn't contemplating being done. He was done. And decided to come back. And, you know, now he's fighting against that stigma of, you know,

of mental health being a weakness somehow like that, you know, dealing with the anxiety and the depression, things he dealt with and now coming out on the other side of that and kind of restarting his fighting career. And I truly do believe, and I said this back when he signed with the UFC, you know, whatever that was, you know, really good prospect. NC State wrestler, you know, real solid, you know, good jiu-jitsu train with Robert Drysdale. He's out of the extreme couture now working under the great Eric Nixick. Looked like a legit contender one day. And he had that just a bad night of the office, you know, and got released right after. So I was fascinated and interested to speak to Max.

I've actually never interviewed Max before this interview. So I was very interested to talk with him. It's a big weekend for Bellator. You know, big weekend for Bellator. This card, in my opinion, of the major cards happening this weekend, UFC, Bellator One Championship, BKFC, I think top to bottom, the Bellator card is the best card of the weekend. Now, how that's going to translate into ratings and people getting interested,

I can't say for sure, but when you got Patricio, Pitbull and Added Borks, which is a really good fight, you got A.J. McKee making his lightweight debut against Spike Carlyle, UFC Veteran. You got Aaron Pico against Jeremy Kennedy. You got Juan Archeletta returning on the card in a really interesting fight. You got Max Rochkhov on the prelims. So it's a really intriguing card. So top-to-bott and Bellator actually has the best card of the weekend. Nothing against any of the other shows out there. I'm just saying in terms of talent and star power and ability, I think we're going to be a lot of the top-to-down. looking at the best card out Bellator. UFC, of course, has another top heavy card

where I think a really intriguing strawaway fight with McKinsey Dern, take it on Yan-Jou-Nan. But that card outside of that fight is a little lackluster, let's be honest. And the UFC's going through a weird period right now, where we actually get this card this weekend, then we get another off week, and then we roll back into the October, what is it, the 15th card, and then we roll, of course, right into UFC 280,

which is a monster, monster pay-per-view, of course, with Islam Makachev and Charles Olaver at the top, Aljimane Stirling, and T.J. Dillishal on the Comane, Benile Daryush and Matush Gamrod on the card. It's an embarrassment of Rich. It's an embarrassment of Riches on that card. But yeah, kind of a weird stretch. These UFC Fight Night cards have not been the strongest lately. And I don't think that opinion is going to change with this one, although I do really like the main event. I'm always excited to see McKinsey Dern get out there and do the damn thing.

and I think she is still a serious threat one day to become champion when you get that kind of incredible skills that she has in her ground game. But it will be interesting to see how that one plays out because I feel like it's not a title eliminator, but it is kind of in a way a contender eliminator. Because Jan Jan, a couple losses in a row. I thought she won her last fight, if I'm being honest. She had the really bad night at the office against Carlos Barza.

But, you know, McKenzie, of course, you had that loss to Marina Rodriguez and then, you know, came out and got the winner, Ritia Torres. I feel like this is, it's far from a make or break moment for McKinsey. She's still far too young to say this is a make or break moment. But the winner of this fight is going to be positioned to get a big fight in the division, whether that comes against maybe the loser of Carlos Barza and Zhang Wei Lee. Maybe it comes against Marina Rodriguez, depending on, you know, again,

she's got her own fight coming up in a few weeks. But, yeah, it's an interesting one because, you know, the Strawway Division, as far as the women's divisions in the UFC, is the DECD. deepest division in the UFC. And so it's going to be interesting to see this is a bit of a contender eliminated. The winner will remain a top five ranked fighter, always, you know, hammering, knocking on the door of one more fight, maybe to a title shot. The loser gets knocked back a lot further for Yan Shan Shan, that's three in a row, even though

the one loss again, bit controversial. And, of course, she had the loss to Carlos Barza, who was now the champion, no shame in that. But three losses in a row is nowhere where you want to be. in this division. I don't know that either one of these fighters will eventually become champion. I have a lot of faith in McKinsey Dern. You'll hear that last week.

I told her I truly believe she will become champion one day. And I mean that because I think talent-wise, she's just too good. But again, you got to get there. You got to do it. And, you know, she hasn't done that yet. So we got to see it. I also mentioned Marina Rodriguez, the winner. Another one, Rosammy Eunice is out there.

She hasn't fought. Imagine the scrambles and exchanges on the ground if we can see McKinsey. Dern against Rosnam of Unis. How fun would that be? And, of course, BKFC this weekend also, you know, Lorenzo Hunt taking on Clinton Henry in a title fight. And then, of course, Big Ben Rothwell making his debut against Bobo Abandon. Is this the sport that Ben Rothwell was always made for? We'll find out on Saturday.

It's a weird weekend. It's a stacked weekend. A lot of fight cards, Angela Lee fighting to become a two-division champion in a really interesting one championship fight. Not the most stacked events in the history of the sport, but solid fights all around. If you kind of combined everything into one, it would be a really damn good fight card. Of course, you're not doing that, so you have to kind of pick and choose your poison where you're going. With that being said it earlier, and I stand by that. Bellator has the best card coming up this weekend.

Main event, all the way down to the prelims are really strong. Coming from Long Beach, should be an interesting card. So with that being said, we're going to kick things off this week and talk to one of the main card fighters. one of the most highly touted prospects to ever enter our sport. And he went through some rough patches. He went through some rough spots. And now he's on a big win streak taken on Jeremy Kennedy this weekend in a potential number one contenders fight. A win could get him the winner of Patricio Pitbull and Adam Borks.

So let's talk to Aaron Pico about his continued evolution. Where is that right now and how far he feels he's away from becoming a Bellator champion? He is one of the top featherweight fighters in the world, and he returns to action in just a matter of days for a fight that was actually supposed to happen earlier this year. Now it's happening in October instead. I am always happy to speak to Aaron Pico. Aaron, how are you? Doing well, doing well. Thank you for having me on.

Absolutely. So, of course, this fight is coming up. Matter of days away, as I said, this was one you were going to get earlier in the year. Unfortunately, had an injury eight days out, change of opponents. Are you happy you got this one back? Yeah, I'm excited. I'm really happy that I was able to fight. Was it back in April?

I'm happy that Aiden, not Aidan Lee, Adley Edwards stepped up, and I'm excited to fight Jeremy Kennedy. It's a big step up in competition. He's been in there with some of the toughest guys. And yeah, I'm ready to go test my skills. Yeah. You know, when you came in the sport, Aaron, you know, right away, you know, everyone's like champion, champion, future champion. And you've quietly been building this streak now, quietly been getting better. And you've kind of just, you've kind of, you know, not let's say you've stayed on that.

headlines necessarily, but you've just been doing your work, I guess the best way to say. You've been putting in work, getting the wins and getting there. But this is a big one, right? Like, this is a big one. Jeremy Kennedy, I think is six in the rankings. You're four. Obviously, we have the title fight on the same car with Pitbull and Borich. Do you feel that?

Like, do you feel this as being a big fighter or do you even look at it that way? Yeah, to be honest, for me, every, every fight, I take it as a world championship fight. I've always said that. But, no, I've just been in the gym grinding with my coaches. I'm in there six days a week. MMA is very difficult for me. It doesn't come easy, and it's not an easy sport, so I'm constantly thinking, how do I get better?

What do I do I do? I tend to overthink. So I'm excited to go out there and show the world how good I've gotten. And I feel I'm knocking at the door for a title fight. So let's focus on Jeremy Kennedy, get through this fight, and I think I'm going to be in talks for a Bellator championship. It's funny you say that that MMA is really hard because when you come in, and I'm guilty of this too, Aaron, like you were an incredible wrestler.

You know, I come from, I'm a wrestling guy, so I'm always like the wrestling guy, so I always have my eyes on the wrestlers. But you also had boxing. You seem like you were built for MMA, I guess is what I'm getting at. That's one of the reasons why so many people, myself included, were so high on you. It's funny to hear you say, though, MMA is really hard because I think there's that misconception that just because you have that training background and that background in wrestling and all those things, it's just easy for you, but it's not easy.

No, no, that's further from the truth. I mean, when I first came in and it got my career started, I knew that I had my work cut out for me. The organization wanted me to be champion, and, you know, hindsight's 2020. I was rushed a little bit. But, no, it's very, very difficult. This sport is growing on the body mentally, and especially, me. me being a perfectionist, I am so hard on myself. And yeah, it keeps me up at night sometimes.

And early mornings, I'm studying, trying to, you know, be a better fighter. By no means I do. I think I've arrived yet. And I keep saying it's a very difficult sport, especially when you want to be great. And luckily for me, I have good coaches around me. I have good family. And I just take it one day at a time. I know it sounds so simple, but that's all you can really do because, you know, the voices will start talking your head. Am I doing enough? Am I good in this area? These are the, these are the thoughts that I have. And there's only one way to, you know, take the edge off and that's just going to the gym and train. Yeah. You mentioned it, you know, hindsight's 20-20. I'm curious, you know, it's funny, you're a veteran now, but you're still so young, what, 25, right?

So, I mean, you're still, you know, very, very young. But if you could go back, right now and go back to the Aaron Pico we saw make his debut a couple years ago, what advice would you give yourself? Like what advice would you give? The knowledge you carry now, what advice would you give yourself as like an oh and oh fighter? Well, the advice I'd give to myself

is that I'm not, I would tell myself, hey, listen, I'm not ready to fight for a title. I'm, you know, five, six years away, but let's take the fights slow, let's build, let's get better. And, you know, because training camp, you know, I fought quite a bit. And I was just kind of like, all right, got done with the training camp, take a few weeks off, and then right back into training camp. I didn't really have time to just develop and be with a coach and just say, listen, we're going to work on this, we're going to do this, this can happen.

And it all changed for me when I came to Albuquerque and I started working with the coaches that I have now. I mean, I didn't fight for almost a year. And I was with Greg Jackson, Brandon Gibson, every single day working on fighting. and I would just tell myself and go to Jackson, Link, and do what I maybe take a year off and just and develop. But I'm happy the way that everything

worked out. I wouldn't be in the situation that I am now. I wouldn't have the manager. I wouldn't have the coaches. And I don't think I would be the fighter I am today. Like I said, I don't take it for granted. You hear me say it, this sport is very, very difficult. It can change in a matter of seconds. So I'm very

focused. I take it very seriously and I think I'm in a good position. Yeah. Everyone develops and evolves at their own speed. There's no right or wrong way to it. Daniel Cormier was, I think, 31 when he made his debut, you know, coming out of the Olympics, and he went on to become, you know, arguably one of the greatest fighters in the history of the sport. There's no right or wrong way to do it.

And, again, I'm a wrestling guy. I think wrestling is the absolute best pedigree to have in your back pocket coming into fighting. But I'm sure you see a guy that came up at the same time as you, Bo Nicol. He's, I think, a year older than you. incredible wrestler, Penn State, champion, all these kind of things. And, you know, I think he's, again, kind of like yourself, one of the best prospects we've had come into the sport. But he's talked about it.

He's like, I think I'm ready for Israel out of Sanya right now. And I'm like, slow down. Like, I'm not saying you're not good. You're absolutely good. But, you know, let's not put the car before the horse. Not that you necessarily need to. I'm not asked you to, like, criticize Bo Nicol. But like, if you give that same advice to Bo Nicol, would it be like, you know, let, you know,

you know, take time, you know, because this is a, this is a marathon, not a sprint. for sure i i think that's the best advice um because it's just a different it's a different speed in there especially with high level fighters the the speed of the timing is a lot of a lot different and there's no need to rush will you be a champion i i the chances of him being a champion are very high but there's no need to rush and um when that time comes it's going to come fast and just make sure that you're you're ready because the competition I know it's nice and you feel good when you beat these guys and stuff, but at the highest level, the speed and the reaction time is on a different level,

and you just need to adjust your eyes. You need to just get comfortable in the cage. You need to feel the crowd, the lights. And one thing I always say is even the stuff that goes on before the fight, the media, the where you stay at in the hotel, just going through rehearsals as much time as you can get until you get the time, the call to go to the big show, I think you should absorb it as much as you possibly can

and not rush it. That's just my opinion, but everybody's different. For example, you used Deano Kermann. He was 31. But he was mentally probably a lot, you know, beyond his years. He was 31 years old. He wrestled in the Olympics.

You know, he's gone through life. And I think he was probably, you know, ready and was mentally ready to take on those challenges. You know, when I came into the sport, I was 20 years old. My first five was on Madison Square Guard and against a guy that was nine and two. Fought for, I think, an LFA title, his fight before.

So it was a guy that's been around the sport a long time. And mentally, I just wasn't ready. Like, I always used the analogy. I was just that young horse that just had a bunch of fire in him, but it hasn't been in the bullring yet, you know. Does he have all the bloodlines and everything to become a great horse? And, you know, yes, but he just needs time to develop. He needs to be around a good coach.

He needs to be around everything. And then when the call comes and he has some years of experience, he'll be able to, you know, I use bullfighting as an analogy like a bullfighting horse. He just needs time to develop. And then when he gets that call to go on the big plaza and fight the biggest and baddest bulls, he's going to be ready. But if you throw him out there when he's three years old and never seen a bull ever in his life, he's probably going to trip and fall or get gourd or something like that.

He just needs time to develop and there's no rush. And I think that's why I'm at in my career. I've had time. I'm physically ready. I'm mentally ready. I'm going to be 26 on Friday. And I think that time is arriving when we're ready to get that call to fight for a world championship. Yeah.

So I said it earlier. You know, when you come in, everyone's like he's got this wrestling and boxing background. You had like the pedigree to be a champion. But do you feel like where you're at right now, Aaron, it's probably funny to answer this question? But do you feel like you are a true mixed martial artist now? Like, it's no more I was a wrestler and a basketball. boxer. I have that pedigree. Now, do you feel like a true mixed martial artist now? I do. I really do. It's funny that you say that I was just with Coach Greg. I'm with Coach Greg

every day. But last week, I asked them a question. And I said, you know, just using our terminology that we use. And he said, damn, Aaron, you're actually starting to understand combat. And I looked at him. I said, yeah, I never would have been talking this language three years ago, four years ago and it feels really good. I really owe it to all my coaches. Greg Jackson, Brandon Gibson, I really, really put a lot of time into me. And I ask a ton of questions. And I feel really good. I feel really, really good. And I'm excited to go out there and fight. Do you believe in your heart of hearts and I'm not going to try to pin you down in this question to say, like, of course, your focus is Jeremy Kennedy. We know that. But, you know, assuming everything goes well, October 1st, you win,

Are you, at this point, this stage right now where I'm talking to you today, are you ready to be a champion? Are you ready for that challenge? Or if that's the next fight, that ends up being the next fight, are you ready for that? Yeah, I'm not ready to be a champion. I'm ready to be a great champion. That's what I've been saying. I'm at the point in my life to fight for that title.

I don't want to be a good champion. I want to be a great champion. What I mean by that, I want to defend my belt. And I think I'm ready. Yeah, I love that. You also mentioned, of course, the relationship you've built with the mad scientist himself, Greg Jackson, as I always like to call him. And of course, Coach Brandon Gibson, who I have so much respect for, and I know talking to so many fighters over the years that it builds a relationship with Brandon, that he's like, he's a friend, he's a mentor, he's a coach, he's all these kind of things. How much credit do you give to that relationship that you've built with those guys in particular that have put you in the position where you're at now?

because you had the physical tools there, and we all know that, but you still had to be molded and crafted and built into being a great champion. How much credit do you give Greg and Brandon? I don't want to take anything away from your teammates. You got a lot of great teammates down there. I was actually talking to John Dodson a couple weeks ago.

He was mentioning you, all the guys down that you work with. But those two guys in particular as coaches, how much have they meant to your evolution and where you're at right now? Yeah, they're everything. As simple as that everything that I know, as far as MMA, I owe it to Greg and I owe it to Brandon. They are my, they always call me their little brother and I call them my big brother.

I mean, I love those guys. And, you know, when I talk to my coaches, it's when I get off the phone to Brandon Gibson, it's not, bye coach, it's all right, coach, I talk to you later, I love you. That's the type of relationship that we have. And I'm very thankful for them. I really am. and I respect them so much. They are my family. Yeah, I love that.

I know I'm asking you to step on a landmine by asking you this question, but I'm going to ask it anyways, Aaron. Of course, the other big fight, you know, coming up on that card is Pitbull and Adam Borch. You know, Adam fought him, you know, again, early in your career, I'm not making excuse him. You fought him, you years ago, you were a different fighter then.

But can I ask you your opinion on that fight? Do you lean one way or the other when you see that matchup? No, I don't really lean one way or the other, but if you're asking me who I probably want to win, I want Adam Borks to win. I really do. And if I could have it in a perfect world, I'd fight,

God willing win, beat Jeremy Kennedy, and then fight Adam Borks and revenge that loss and become a bell to a world champion. That's what I have in mind. If I could write out a perfect story, that's what I would want. I'm rooting for him. I'm rooting for Adam Borks for sure.

That's kind of perfect, right? Like the best way to avenge a loss and become champion, right? Like, that's like the story you couldn't write any better. Like a Hollywood writer couldn't come up with a better story. Yeah. I've been waiting for that rematch for a very long time. I'm obviously staying close on Jeremy Kennedy,

but I want to get that rematch with Adam Borks. I think he got me early on in my career. If you look at the fight, I was dominating the whole thing until I got hit with the flying knee. Hey, shit happens. But I'm a whole different fighter now. Yeah, and I like Patricia Pitbull. he's a monster. We all know he's very good, but I don't think people can count out at him. I think he's a

really good fighter, and I think people are crazy if they're counting him out. Yeah, no, you can't count out Adam Borks. I mean, he's a really good fighter. All these guys in Bellator and the top 10 are good fighters. And yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he wins. Yeah, real quick, before I get you out of here, I am fascinated by, I'm always, you know, you get stuck in these interviews, always talking about fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting. Of course, that's what we're here to talk about. But I love you, have become, you are a horseman. Now, I'm not going to lie to you, Aaron.

I grew up in a city. I did not grow up in the country. I, you know, I was not around farms or horses growing up. Now, you're going to laugh. My experience learning about horses has been watching Yellowstone, the show Yellowstone. I've become fascinated with, like, the cowboy lifestyle. And, like, on your Instagram, you were showing, like, videos of you doing, like, horse competitions. Now, until I watch Yellowstone, I didn't know these things existed.

I'm not going to lie. I didn't know these kind of like wrangling competitions, but it seems like you have an absolute blast doing that. Like, is that kind of become your other passion besides fighting? Well, of course, you're a dad. No, I don't want to take that way. Is that like your other passion, like, you know, doing the horses? Yeah, that is my passion. I've always wanted to be a cowboy ever since I've been a little kid.

And I rode horses as a youngster. My dad took me to get, you know, have lessons and stuff. And I used to always tell him, you would never let me have a horse just simply because I was so involved in wrestling. And I used to always tell them when I'm older and I make my own money, I'm going to be able to buy my horses and that they're going to be at my house. And yeah, I have them now. I have two horses here. And on the weekends, I'm usually with, you know, my good friend, Phil. And we go all over and do the, it's called cow sorting.

We do these cow sorting competitions. And I'm just, yeah, I can't get enough of it. I'm addicted to it. I want to do this for the rest of my life after fighting. Can I ask what are your horse's names? Yeah, my first horse I bought, his name is Canelo. And then my second horse is Collione, like Don Colione from the Godfather. So, yeah, I didn't name them.

I didn't name them, but I really like their names. Yeah, I love it. That's awesome. Yeah, it's so crazy like seeing that. Now, I got to ask, I did see on your Instagram. There are a couple of photos with you with a hat, but mostly you're a baseball cap, kind of guy when you're on the horses. Now, I don't know, are you not, are you not a big cowboy hat guy? Is that the thing? No, I love my cowboy hats. I really do. But the thing is, is when I'm doing

the cow sorting, you know, I'm moving so much and, and, and I'm going kind of fast that sometimes my hat falls off and it gets me out of focus. So when I go, I like to wear a ball cap and I know that my hat won't fall off. So that's that's why. But I like my cowboy hats for sure. Yeah. It's a fascinating thing. Like I said, I fully admit, I don't know. I didn't know much about it. I don't know if you know Yellowstone or watch the show. But like I'm fascinated. Like now like I want to, because I've been to Montana before years ago. I went out there on a camping trip. But I, you know, this is going back in many years. I went to the South Dakota for the big Sturgis rally years ago. But I, now I like, I want to go back out there because like I love the show. And like I said, I'm learning like these and I, that's what I love

about that show. Like, I had no idea some of this stuff existed. Like, the stopping competition, what they call it, like, where you're stopping the horse. The rain. Yeah. Like, those are, like, I had no idea. And, like, I'm learning. And it's just fascinating to me now. Like, I'm so, I'm so engrossed in learning about that culture

that I just didn't know anything about. Yeah, no, I like the raining too. If you want to watch a good show, it's called The Last Cowboy. I did. That's Taylor Sheridan. The same guy did that. I was, I was so because, again, I had no idea these. I, You know, I knew little things.

I knew there were like wrangling competitions, things like that, like the rope, you know, things like that. But I had no idea. Like, you were talking about the cow thing. Like, I had no idea that was actually like a competition. It's cool. Yeah, no, it's really fun. I like the horse, the horse community and the Western, you know, lifestyle. And I've met a lot of good people through the horses.

And, yeah, they're great animals. They require a lot of work. But they keep me focused. And ultimately, they make me feel really good. I always tell people when I'm on top of a horse and I'm at my competitions and stuff, there's not one thought of fighting. There really isn't. I'm in the moment.

I'm having a great time. I have a smile on my face. I'm connected with my horse. And it's the best feeling in the world. And when you have that horse bug and that itch, it'll never go away. So I thank God every single day that I have the horse passion because it really does drive me to be a better person. in fighting and because I know if I win my fights, I can, I can enjoy my horses a lot more too. So it's, it balances me out for sure.

Yeah. So what are you saying? Like when it's all said and done, you've had all this long title reign, you finally decide to retire, you know, whatever it is, 10, 15 years or not, whatever it is. Pico Ranch, is that what we're saying? Like, it's going to be the Pico Ranch? Yeah, that is a big dream of mine. I really want to have, you know, a big ranch, maybe a little, a few cows.

But I want to breed horses. I, there's a lot of people that tell me that, yeah, it's not a business where you're going to make a ton of money. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you don't. But I want to be able to have some businesses and be able to have that on the side and just be passionate about it, be around horsemen and horse competitions and, yeah, do what I want and live life. Yeah, I love you say that also by getting your head away from fighting. I say that all the time.

Like, I love to talk to guys about fighting, but, you know, I have interests outside of fighting, too. And I think that's so important fighters, just get your head away from fighting because you get obsessed with it, right? Like, you can get consumed by fighting if you're constantly thinking about training or your opponent or, you know, whatever, weight cutting, whatever it is. You got to get your headspace in a dude. You got to get in a different headspace. And that sounds for you is like when you're on the horse, fighting doesn't exist. Exactly. It really does.

It really, it's hard on yourself mentally. And yeah, there's some days where I sometimes will sit in a room and it's not that I feel depressed. I just, I'm so obsessed about fighting. Am I doing enough? Am I good in this area? And it can really drive me insane. At least for me, I'm talking just solely on me. And I know that I have my horses in the backyard.

I can jump on them. But it'll eat you up. It really will eat you up, especially if you care about it. And I care about being the best. So I have my horses. I have my life. I have my son and everything is going well. If I ever make it to New Mexico one day, would you teach me to ride a horse?

I'm fascinated now. I feel like I need to ride a horse at some point. No, absolutely. I tell everybody all the time. Whenever you guys are in New Mexico, come to my house, we'll have a barbecue and ride horses. That's what the lifestyle is all about, being around good people, eating good food, riding horses, listening to good music. That's the lifestyle I like, and you're more than welcome to come to my house for sure.

I love it. I love it. Aaron, thank you, as always, for the time. You know, I appreciate it. Have a good race to your training camp. I know everything's kind of getting wrapped up now. Safe travels out to the fight and cannot wait to see it back in action October 1st. I appreciate it.

Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. A big thank you, of course, to Aaron Pico. Big fight for him coming up this weekend. Jeremy Kennedy, as a veteran, really good fighter. And a win there could get Pico, the shot he's been waiting for. It was interesting to hear him talk about, you know, finally being ready to be champion. You know, this is something that he was anointed at before he even had a fight.

I mean, people, and listen, I'm guilty of it, too. I looked at Aaron Pico's background in wrestling and boxing, and I thought, man, this kid is guaranteed to become a champion. Listen, there are no guarantees. You know, Bo Nickel fights with the Contender Series on Tuesday night. I think he might be one of the best prospects to ever enter the sport. He's already saying he could be Israel Adasanya. That might be a bit premature, but the point is, is nothing is guaranteed. You can look at a guy or girl and their talent and the pedigree and the background

and say they're going to be a champion, but there are no guarantees. Aaron Pico was supposed to be one of the most locked guaranteed prospects of all time, and he went four and three in his first seven, lost his debut. And now he's back at a point where he really is, you know, becoming as good as advertised, becoming as good as we all thought he could be. He has to go through a tough opponent in Jeremy Kennedy this weekend. But if he does, Belator would have a big, big fight on their hands. Either Patricia Pitbull and or Aaron Borks in the rematch would be a huge fight with Aaron Pico.

Of course, you got the A.J. McKee factor out there. Is A.J. going to stick around a lightweight? Is he going to go back to featherweight? you know, again, he's going to be a bit of a determining factor what happens. But I look forward to that fight this weekend. As I mentioned earlier, another fight that's happening on the Bellator prelims this weekend is the debut, a former UFC fighter, Max Roshkoff. Of course, a lot of people remember Max, as I mentioned at the top of the show,

as the guy who went in the UFC, had a great start and a terrible finish. Ended up, you know, basically quitting on the stool, stopping the fight, no moss, didn't want to continue going. And that kind of branded him, you know, For that moment on, he was branded as a quitter, got released from the UFC days later, and now after a couple of fights in Cage Warriors, he's making his Bellator debut. Really fascinating conversation with Max, because, as I said earlier, I'd never spoken to him before. I followed his story very closely. He had done an interview with my colleague Mike Heck right after he got released from the UFC.

It was kind of a crazy couple of days for the guy. And to hear him tell it, of course, he was done. He was done with the sport. He was walking away. He was no longer fighting. and for him to go from there to now back and fighting in Bellator is such a huge swing, you know, going through what he went through and dealing with the mental health issues, which again is a weird stigma that we're starting to address in our sport.

I'm glad we are. We've heard for a long time things like mental coaches and, you know, going to a sports psychologist. That's nothing new necessarily. But there's still a weird stigma around it where, you know, some people like to take shots at fighters for seeking help in that realm. in that regard. And, you know, dealing with the mental health of, you know, just the bombardment of what Max

dealt with is, you know, 5-0 fighter, whatever it was, five-and-one fighter after that loss. And suddenly, you know, his name is all across the headlines. One of the biggest stories in the sport for that little flash of time, you know, and then to get released from the UFC and basically think you're, again, it's a fascinating story. And I never talked to Max, which is why I wanted to talk to him with this interview and talked to him about coming back, his decision to come back, signing with Bellator, his expectations for the future, and dealing with the mental health issues that he faced with anxiety, depression, all those things, and now being able to fight again. So, without further

ado, let's talk to Bellator fighter, Max Rochkhov. Newly signed to Belator and about to make his debut, I am happy to speak today to Max Rochkhov. Max, how are you? Doing good. I appreciate midweek day Yeah I appreciate you taking the time Obviously big fight coming up

Bellator debut Excited nervous Just ready to get back in there And do the damn thing Where's the mind at right now I'm just grateful to be able to go in there

And fight You know the closer it gets The more I felt that Or I'm just grateful for the opportunity You know Obviously you had your last couple of fights In Cage Warriors I still truly believe, you know, you're one of the best prospects coming up.

I'm a wrestling guy, so I followed your career at NC State, all the things you come from your background. But what was it like when you guys had that call from your manager, the Bellator, you know, wanted to sign you. I know it's always a big moment when you get that kind of offer. But what was kind of like, were you just grateful? Were you happy? What was your reaction? I was pumped. And I was actually across the street from Gold Rush.

I was at the gas station getting some chew. And I freaking, I got the call, and I sprinted it all. over there and I told all the guys I coach with and my buddies and all the kids and stuff right away. So it was, it was exciting. It was fun because it's, it was, it's been a long time, you know, being in the sport and, uh, not really accomplishing anything that I've wanted to. And I just know this is a step in that direction. Yeah. Let's just, I mean, let's just, you know, address the elephant in the room. Of course, everyone, you know, knows the whole situation happened to the UFC, you left there.

There was a time from the interviews I've read, you were almost ready to walk away from the sport. You were almost ready to be done with MMA altogether and just do something else with your life, coach, do whatever else you were pretty much done. You come back convincing performances in Cage Warriors. Where you're at right now, like, do you feel like this, I know it's so generic, but like, do you feel like this is a little bit of, like, Max Roschkoff 2.0? Like, this is a fresh start for you.

Well, I was completely done. Like I didn't train for like eight months at all. I wouldn't even walk into the, I wouldn't even go to the gym like at all. I was working. I started coaching. I was doing a lot of different stuff. But yeah,

I was completely done. And then just decided with some help with some friends, you know, get back on the horse. And that's what I did. But I would say 2.0. I'm not really sure. That's hard to say.

I think no one's going to, it's hard to say that before I've really actually performed. I even think in my cage warrior fights, I didn't really perform the best that I can. So I guess we'll see next week. Yeah. You've spoken openly about, you know, the anxiety, the different feelings and things you felt, you know, coming out of the UFC fight, just in general, doubting yourself, the self-doubt, things like that you face in your career. and, you know, there's this weird stigma in mixed martial arts and combat sports in general because it's a it's a tough sport.

Obviously, it's a tough sport. So physically, you know, we can't talk about mental health, right? Like, we can't, it's a weakness. It's a weakness if you talk about that, which is utterly ridiculous. But you openly spoke about that and the self-done, how that has crept in your head throughout your entire athletic career when you were wrestling, things like that. How have you continued to battle that, you know, as you move forward in your career? Because, listen, I'm not you, Max.

not an athlete. Now I've been wrestled. I haven't done athletics in many, many years. But like even in my career in writing, like there's times when someone say, oh, you should do this. And I have doubted myself. I'm like, can I really do that? Can I really? Am I really the guy to do that? Am I really, you know? So it's real. It's a real thing you face in any career. But particularly when you're about to go in there and get punched in the face for 15 or 25 minutes. Yeah, I just try to focus on just being grateful to be able to do it at all, regardless of the wins and the losses and stuff like that is and I've never really done that in my entire career it's always been about I have to win and that that mentality sometimes can be really hard because like you know everyone everyone gets their ass whooped at least ones in every sport whether it's wrestling football baseball there's there's going to be times where you don't do very well and uh so I think just focusing on being grateful for it grateful for the opportunity to do it because a lot of lot of people don't get to chase whatever it is they want to chase and so at the end of the day

regardless of what happens if i can say hey i did i did the best that i could and i was grateful for it then it's able to keep my mind at ease but it's been it's been hard especially growing up and basically being when i was growing up i was just told i was a piece of shit from the time i was born until I was damn near 18 so it's like hard until I get that it'll never leave my head like there's no matter and no matter what anyone tells me I can do or how good of a practice I do or how good of a fight I have I'm always going to be in the back of my mind thinking like I could do better this I could do better that it's just a little bit of a sickness no you're absolutely right I actually I followed your career and I this is the first time we're having a chance

to talk, but you're an Ohio guy. I'm actually in Columbus, Ohio myself. Grew up in Southern Ohio, so we're both Ohio guys. So I know that, that like there's a certain mentality that comes along with that, right? Like I grew up in a very, in a somewhat similar situation, abusive household, you know, did not have a good relation with my father, things like that. And it does. It affects you. And I think for people that don't go through that or never experienced that, it's harder for them to understand what that's like. Because when you hear that or you feel that from, you know, as old as, you know, five years old, when you can start having memories to being 18,

you're always told that you're not worth this, or you're a bad kid, or whatever the case may be, you never really get over that, right? Like, you never really get past that. You have to kind of deal with it. You have to, it's almost like an addiction. You're never, you're never not an addict, right?

Like, you never truly are not an addict. You can put down the alcohol or the drugs, but you're never truly not an addict. Kind of the same thing. You never truly get past that kind of trauma. No, and I've actually, I'm kind of, it's funny, I did like super bad when I was in school from the time I was little until I was in college.

But I've always been kind of a nerd about a couple of things. And, you know, psychology has been one of them. And I've actually done a lot of research about, like, childhood trauma and what that can do to, like, someone's brain. Even if it's like something that happens one time when you're four can affect you when you're older into your adult life. So it's definitely, it's definitely real that, you know, there's nothing. There's not a lot you can do about it. You can learn to live with it. And that's what, when I've coached some kids or I've talked to some kids who have had like the similar issues or whatever.

And that's exactly what I'm telling me. Hey, like, a 17 year old kid last year actually that ended up going off to college. But he had similar background and stuff. And I told him he's like telling me what he's thinking. I'm like, dude, honestly, there's nothing you can do about those thoughts or about how you're feeling. The only thing you can do is learn how to live with it and learn how to manage it to the point where you're a productive member. society and that's like kind of what keeps me I guess grounded is knowing that I always it doesn't matter how good I do or how bad I do I come from a certain type of background.

Yeah. You know, when you sign up to go into college wrestling and you sign up to become a mixed martial artist, none of that comes along with the responsibility of being a role model or being a good example of people or anything like that. That's not what you sign up for. But I do think it's important in situations like this to be able to talk openly about it because there's going to be some kid who's 16, 17 years old coming up right now who might listen to our interview and hear, oh, wow, I know who Max is. I'm going through something similar. I'm dealing with something in my home or I'm dealing with this anxiety or I'm dealing with this or that. I know you don't sign up for this, Max, but you've been open about speaking about this. Like, do you, is there some

almost like cathartic therapy in that that you know that like talking about this kind of subject that like ideally you you may be helping somebody else going through something that is similar to what you've gone through. I mean, I think that's why I talk about it. And that's why I coach wrestling. That's why everything that I do, it's not about, you know, at the end of the day, I just, I want to make an impact on my family and the people close to me and the people that love with me and be able to help other people along the way. that's that's i try to be of service to others more so than myself especially now i think i've learned that um you know if i can help in any way to a 14 15 16 year old kid just listening to me talk or give any type of guidance to anyone that i can to the best of my ability i'm going to do that

because i know what it's like to not have it and it fucking sucks absolutely So this is going to sound like a weird question. This is going to sound like me playing therapist now, Max, but I'm going to ask the question because you've been an athlete your whole life, right? Like you've been in wrestling and I know the grind of that, the difficulty, the physical and mental difficulties going to wrestling and then coming in MMA, which again, physically and mentally taxing sport. When you took that time off and you were done, you walked away and you were completely done, then you decided to come back. Now that you're training, now that you're preparing, now that you're a week out from your Bellator debut, are you enjoying it? Are you having fun? Are you loving it?

Like, is it something you've kind of fall in love with? Is it something that's still just a job? Like, how do you view it right now? I'm enjoying it right now for my first two fights back. And Cage Warriors, I fucking hated it. I don't know. It was just like I was losing my mind every day at practice. I even see watch my fights at the end afterwards.

I'm not happy at all. I remember walking over after both my. my fights and talking to my coaches and saying something along the lines of fuck this i don't want to fucking be here and i just dominated both fights uh it's took it a little bit um i don't think that it's weird because i was in a weird place before i i think i loved it so much that i was like a psycho about it before where coaches were trying to tell me to stop doing my fourth practice of the day and shit like that because it wasn't good for me and now it's like i do what I need to do to feel prepared and I get out.

I don't live in the gym anymore. I definitely used to. But I'm having fun. But I think it's just because I'm staying grateful for the opportunity to do something that very few people in the world get to do. Yeah. Would you say going into this when you're in the best possible headspace you've been in in your career?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm confident saying that. Yeah. That's amazing too, right? Like you said earlier, like you're not, because there's so many ways you can be obsessed with the sport, right? Like, I just talked to Aaron Pico a couple days ago.

And we were talking like, he said, like, there's some days I can't sleep because I get so obsessed thinking about a training or thinking about something didn't go right in training that day. And I can't sleep at night. And he's like, sometimes like, he's a guy who's into horses. He's like, when I get on my horse, I just forget about the outside world. Like, I have to get away from fighting. Do you have those opportunities?

Like, you talk about like not obsessing with training and not going in for that more training. like just doing your job and getting out. Like, have you been able to separate the two now where you actually can separate fighting from your mentality from whatever else is going on and like take a break from it, I guess? Not yet. I'm just not in a financial position to do that.

Eventually. At all times. Yeah. So eventually, the long run. Yeah, hopefully someday. But right now I know. Yeah. I have nothing to do here either.

But you mentioned you are happier now, though, going in this way. You're grateful. You feel different. Like, this is a different feeling. Yeah. And, you know, now that I've kind of pondered that saying that a second, but, you know, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to turn out to a good performance, you know. You know, I can be happier all I want right now, but that doesn't mean shit.

Yeah. It's nice right now. Yeah. Even when you say that, you know, when you came out of the Caged Warriors fights and you won dominantly, but you came away thinking, you know, I didn't, this was, you know, I didn't have a great performance. You know, you didn't feel happy about that. When you go into this fight, like, I could sit here and talk about the breakdown all day. What do you think about your opponent? What do you think about the matchup, game plan, all that kind of stuff?

Like, is it just about going in there and performing and just being yourself in there and not necessarily thinking about obsessing about it? I got to win. I got to do this. I got to do that. is that more the mentality going into this fight or kind of give me this sense of like how you approach this particular fight? Um, I've approached every fight the same. I've never once game planned for anyone.

And that's more, I probably would if my coach has told me to, but no one really tells me to do that. Because I have a very specific skill set that, that works really, really well against most people. And so there's no really even game plan. But yeah, I just want to go out there and be myself. And absolute worst case scenario, I want to put on a good fight.

That's it. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like, even when we start our conversation, like, I consider it Saniamax, like, you know, just knowing your, knowing your potential and knowing, like, your coaches. I talked to the guys of extreme couture. I talk to your manager. I've talked to like I still like I can say this honestly and say I still think you're one of the best prospects coming up. Do you hate hearing that though? Do you hate hearing like when people still say, look at you and say, man, I still think there's so much potential in this guy. Or would you rather

just kind of fly under the radar and just do your thing? Uh, you know, my ego likes it. Yeah, but I don't see where it comes from. I just don't everyone, all of that talk comes from what people have heard me do in the gym. It's not because I won a jih Tzu tournament. It's not because I was a CCC champion in wrestling and ranked a couple times. Like I really, if you look at my wrestling career, I didn't do shit in my wrestling career. I didn't do jack shit. I won the ACC tournament once, which isn't that good.

I have one win over a high level black belt in jihitsu. But I've kind of been like that my whole career. where I show flashes of being very, very, very good. But at the end of the day, I've never been able to put it together for a long stretch of time. And so I think all that just comes from, it's not from what I've done in the cage

on the wrestling matter and jiu-suitzoo. It just comes from what I do in the gym, which that's good. Like, if I could walk away and I know what I've done in the gym, and as a martial artist, I know where I'm at, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter for everyone else if I don't do it in the cage in front of everyone else. Yeah, it's funny you say that a guy I know, I'm sure you know, at extreme couture guy I've been friends with for many, many years, Mike Pyle. Mike Pyle for years, and I covered his entire career.

Every person I ever spoke to about Mike Pyle said, this is the absolute killer in the gym. You do not want to see him. He is the best you'll ever face. and he struggled to translate that in the cage, you know, and I've talked to him about that many, many times. He struggled to translate what he did in the gym to the cage. You talked to anybody in that era of fighting that ever went out to Extreme Couture or any other gym he was at.

Mike Piles, the guy you don't want to see. Mike Pyle is the guy you do not want to go with. He will beat you. He will submit you. He will make you feel like you're not ready. And then he just struggled to translate that in the cage. So that's the key, right? Like, as far as that, like, it's translating that into the performance.

Yeah, you know, I have a different hairstyle right now. I have a little bit of facial hair, but there was a time when I'm at Extreme Couture. There are people who would come in who hadn't been in the gym for a while, and they dead ass thought I was Mike Pyle. They start calling me Mike.

Like actually, like that's a true story. And then what Stefan Bonner came in one day and he was on, I don't know, he was crazy, but he was like, he thought I was Mike Pyle. And I was like, no, my name's Max. Like, I'm not Mike. And then he's like, oh, well, that, be your dad. You guys got to run with that. He must be the mailman back in Ohio or something.

He's your bastard dad or something. Like, it was so funny. But I've gotten that because my coach, one of my coaches, Nate Pettitt also coached Mike Pyle too. So I hear about him. Yeah. There's no, there's not. And you know what? I love Mike. And I think Mike's a new, Mike was always an incredible competitor. And like I said, you build that reputation. But at the same time, like I said, there is something to be said about just putting in the work, right? Like, Mike has that right. Like, Mike may have not been a champion, like, and like in the UFC or anything like that.

But like, if you talk to anybody who knows Mike Pyle, they just have the utmost respect and admiration for him. Like I said, there's a reputation you build up like that, right? Yeah, and that's where I think it's easier for me to be more grateful and, you know, happy about where I'm at my career, regardless of where I go, is because at this point in my life, regardless of even if they like,

me or not, everyone who knows me at least has to respect me because they've seen me, they've seen how I act, they see how I train, they see how I treat other people. They, I just command respect and I know what I've done as a martial artist. So it's easier for me to kind of just be happy with everything, no matter what the outcome is. Yeah, well, that's awesome to hear. And like I said, honestly, Max, I'm excited to see you back in there. I know there's a lot of, a lot of attention and a lot of excitement about you, back in there. I'm glad you with Bellator. And man, I know training camp is pretty much

wrapped up at this point, but, you know, obviously I've asleep a couple days of the last training camp, safe travels out to the fight. And I very much look forward to seeing you make your debut in about a week. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. I appreciate the time, Max. A big thank you again to Max for coming on the show. Really enjoyed that interview. As I said, first time I've had a chance to chat with him, so it was really intriguing to get his thoughts on coming back, signing with Bellator, and everything he's faced to this point in his early career. Still such a young guy. And Man, he's gone through the ringer, probably in about the worst way possible. You know, that's the last way you want to have your name hit the headlines is, you know, you quit on the stool and that forever brands you as a quitter, which is ridiculous.

But be that as it may, he's coming back. He's fighting to Bellator. And as I said, multiple times in the show already, Belator's got the best card of the weekend. If I'm being honest, UFC's got a card. BKFC's got a card. One championship has a couple of cards, including their second prime video card. I will give a big compliment to one championship. their debut on Prime Video, the one with Demetrius Johnson beating Adriana Marias in the main event,

was actually a really fun card, really well produced, and I will give credit where credit is due in terms of the streaming service. Amazon killed it with that. They did a really, really good job. I say it all the time, you know, when you have a bad streaming service, it can kill your product, even no matter how good it is. I praised Eagle FC for their couple of cards earlier this year, did a really good job. Streaming was great, clear picture, HD, all that kind of things. that make a little difference when you're watching a fight card works great. I wish ESPN Plus could do that. I've lost count the amount of times ESPN Plus has crashed while I'm watching a UFC card.

Now, to be fair, there's a much larger sample there because I'm watching UFC events on ESPN Plus, you know, three times a month, sometimes four times a month, depending on the month itself. But ESPN Plus is giving far more trouble than a lot of the other streaming services. So, yeah, let's see if they can get their stuff together. But credit to where credit is due to one championship and an Amazon Prime Video for doing a good job with that card. Of course, Angela Lee fighting in the main event this weekend on Friday. And, of course, they also have another card on Thursday. So it's kind of like back-to-back events, I'm not mistaken.

So it should be interesting there. Of course, BKFC already talked about. That's a solid card. Quentin Henry against Lorenzo Hunt on the main event and Ben Rosswell making his BKFC debut after leaving the UFC in signing with BKFC. So it should be interesting. Of course, McKenzie Dern, taking on your hands, John Nand. We'll have you covered for all this, everything, everything you need. Over on MMAfighting.com.

So make sure you pay attention to the website all weekend. We'll have your coverage. We can't watch everything, and it's going to be tough to watch everything. We got you covered over there from Thursday to Sunday when all the fights are happening, all the results, all the recaps. We got you. We got you. I want to say a big thank you, of course, to both of my guests this week.

Max Roshkov and Aaron Pico, they both fight on Saturday on best. Melator Max is on the prelims. Aaron Pico, of course, one of the featurebouts on the main card on Showtime. A big thank you to everyone to tunes in each and every week to the show. Make sure you always check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And, of course, as I always say, you can always check us out on the greatest website in the world, MMAFiting.com.

We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.