MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Alan Jouban On Viral Laura Sanko Criticism, Fighter Fired For Biting Opponent

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with Alan Jouban joining the show alongside MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin to discuss the latest in MMA including Rose Namajunas’ big win over Amanda Ribas and her viability as a true contender at 125 pounds. What should come next for her? We’ll discuss on the show. We’ll also talk about the infamous moment that Igor Severino may have effectively ended his career after biting opponent Andre Lima, which got him disqualified in the fight and then bounced out of the UFC as a result. Plus, Jouban addresses former WEC champion Jamie Varner criticizing Laura Sanko for her commentary work this past weekend. We’ll also discuss the latest with Conor McGregor following the release of the ‘Road House’ movie this past weekend as well as a look ahead at UFC 300. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm your host, Damon Martin. And this week, I am pleased, as always, to be well, Welcome to join back into the show. My esteemed colleague, one of the best analysts in the game. Alan, Joe Band joins me this week. Alan, how are you? I'm good, brother. I'm like everyone, dude.

I'm anticipation for 300 coming up. I watched Roadhouse. I don't know if you watched that. Man, I know you're a movie guy, actually. I am. You're a movie guy, so I don't, ooh, I'm actually nervous about your take on that show. On that movie. But things are good, my man.

Good to be on with you. All right. So let me get your opinion. What did you think of Roadhouse? What did you think of Roadhouse? else. Okay, so I got to kind of just give you a quick backstory on it real quick. First of all, I don't compare it to the classic, to the original, right? I don't compare those times. When there's that much time in between, it's a completely different type of movie. But the second major thing

to me leading to what I thought on it, my review, was that I watch it with my son, right? So you watch a movie with your kid in a different manner, right? I'm not picking it apart. My son was laughing the entire movie. He loved it. He loves action movies. It was a rated R movie. It was very rated R when it comes to language, violence, a little bit of nudity, and things like that. But I thought he could handle it, right? So anyway, what I'm getting at is he loved the Connor McGregor character.

He thought it was so funny. Every time Connor would come walking in doing that billion dollar strut or whatever, heavily exaggerated, he was laughing his butt off, right? And like the fight scenes were pretty good. So all in all, man, I enjoyed the movie. If you're looking for mindless television, two hours of a good, what would you call it, like an action movie, right? And it kind of had that like transformers type of, I don't know, like the colors were bright. It was in, you know, in Miami, it was shot in Florida or whatever.

I enjoyed the movie. And I thought Connor did a good job for his acting debut having a leading type role. Now, was it a very predictable movie? I predicted the entire movie, probably within the first 20 minutes. I told my son right away. This is going to happen. This is going to happen. Everything I was spot on.

I don't think you have to be a genius to figure it out. But at the end of the day, I enjoyed the movie. Again, I watch it with my son and I enjoy the process of it. Yeah, I didn't love it, but it was so hard for me to disconnect because I grew up on the original Roadhouse. Like, I loved that movie. So it was so hard because it's a remake or reimagining, whatever you want to call it. It's just so hard for me to disconnect between the two because, you know, I mean,

they're calling the character Dalton. You know, he's a bouncer. They run a lot of parallels between that and the other movie. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but I tell you what, the one thing I did enjoy was Connor. I thought Connor stole the show. Like, I love Jake Gyllenhaal as an actor. I think he's an incredible actor, but it just looked like he wasn't really having fun. Like, he was just kind of like almost like a moody doll.

It was like a weird, like, you know, like there was just like there's certain a swagger that Patrick Swayze carried in that character. And almost like Jake just didn't look like he was having fun. But Connor sure did. And like, Connor was like the best part of the movie. I mean, was he playing, like, was he doing like a nuanced role or anything? No, he was basically playing like an exaggerated version of himself with the, you know, the swagger and the Irish accent and the cockiness and all that kind of stuff. But I was like, you know what, dude, for your first acting performance, I thought he did a fantastic job. That was my favorite part of the movie.

It was kind of, like, because let's be honest, like when any athlete transitions into acting, you always have a little bit of nervousness. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Listen, I don't want to, I don't want to say. I'm not saying, I don't know if you've seen. seen or not, but I'm going to be honest about this. Rhonda Rousey was a little rough in her acting. Not going to lie about that.

She was a little rough when she tried to do acting. I thought Connor did fine. Like, I thought he did great. He was my favorite part of the movie. It's a good comparison, right? Because when you get in that, it's so much harder. It's easier said than done, right? And when you get into acting and you're delivering a one liner,

you can deliver the one liner that you're going to practice in a mirror 50 times and you're going to say different ways. But the reaction, the emotions after you deliver the one liner has to still fit what you just said or the reaction of your co-star, right? And I thought Connor did a pretty good job of balancing those. He would play this overly exaggerated, angry, crazy character, but then he would stay in that moment. He wouldn't just deliver the line and then just go blank in his eyes, right? He kind of stayed in that crazy personality. And it had like a comedic sense to it. You know, and the guy's walking around, I don't want to give it away for our fans, but, you know, he's a nude scene. The

guy's walking through the city naked at one point. And it's just hilarious, you know? And so, So again, watching it with my son, he was giggling the whole time. It made me laugh. It made me enjoy it. Now, if I was going to watch it by myself and dissect it, then I would have been a little bit more harsh on the movie. But I thought it was a good time, man. It was fun.

So we know that in all the lead up because he was doing Roadhouse, which I mentioned this on last week's podcast, for all the complaints about Connor not fighting EEOC 300, I think we're seeing right now why he didn't fight a EOC 300 because he had contractually obligated promotion for this fire, for this movie. There's no way he could have fought a 300. Like they're just now wrapping up to like he was traveling to London and New York and he wouldn't have been able to train. Like no, he could not have fought a 300.

Like that in and of itself, like now I totally understand it because when it seemed like they needed a main event for 300, I was like, just announced Connor and Chandler. Like it's the perfect main event and they did and everyone kind of got bummed out about it. But now seeing what he did in this last couple of weeks promoting Roadhouse, he couldn't have fought a 300. There's no way because, and for people that don't know, because, again, we're MMA and not movies. Like, when you sign on to do a movie, you have contractually obligated promotion.

Like, that's part of your paycheck because you have to go out and promote the movie. You don't get out of it. Like, you can't just like, oh, no, I'm busy. I got a fight booked. You're going to get sued. Like, they need you to promote the movie. And Connor is one of the biggest names in this movie along with Jake Gyllenha. That's why every single interview you saw across all the major mainstream platforms was Jake and Conner.

So he couldn't have fought a 300. So, you know, just for people out there be like, oh, why didn't Connor fight a 300? What's the UFC doing? He couldn't. There's no logistical way he could have fought a 300. And listen, Connor's obviously the biggest A side in UFC. So you want the A side to win. The company wants the A side to win.

If Connor went and tried to squeeze in a four week or a half-ass training camp while promoting this movie, he wasn't going to show up while 300, right? The UFC was looking out for their best interest and Connor's best interest as well by putting this one on the back burner until he was completely done with the movie and he can really get into the gym. I think Connor said in one of his interviews, I want to go just gym home, gym home. That's what he needs to do. He needs to be able to focus on that, not the travel, not the promotion, not everything else going on Hollywood, other opportunities. Because as soon as this movie came out, his phone has probably been ringing off of the hook with other opportunities that he's going to have in the pipeline to do more movies.

But he needs to be in the world of just focused on fighting, focused on Chandler, this one done. Then he can go out and do that again, man. It's too many distractions. The UFC knew that. That's why they didn't allow him to fight. Or that's why they weren't calling him. That's why, you know, we've heard in the lead-up to this. Like, Connor was almost frustrated him and his coach, Coach Kavanaugh for like, you know, the guy can't get a fight. They're not calling us.

They're not giving us anything. That was it. I mean, they're not offering him when they see the lifestyle that he was living during this promotion. And he says, you know, they're going to book him. He seems confident they're going to book him this summer. Chandler seems confident they're going to book him this summer. I'll tell you what, I'm not going to sit here and debate this all day because we've had this conversation at nauseam now. But I'm just going to say this.

And I said it on Twitter as well. I'll get excited when the UFC announces it. Because when Connor came back originally said June 29th, Chandler, we're on International Fight Week. We all got hyped up and excited and ready to go. Didn't happen. UFC shot that down. Dana White was saying, you know, the fall, whatever. When the UFC announces it, when they go on and maybe it's part of 300, and they say Connor is booked against Michael Chandler,

UFC 303 or 304 or 305, whatever the number is, then I'll believe it. But now I can't get excited right now because we've already been through this. I thought it was going to be 300. Again, now I know why they didn't do it. Okay. Then we thought it was going to be International Fight Week. Dana kind of shot that down. I'll get excited for Conner's return when the UFC announces that we know it's actually

official until then, you know, I think we all, the sport is a better place when Conner's fighting because he's such a star and he brings such a bright light to whatever. card he's fighting on. But until it gets announced by the UFC, I'm done playing to like, do we or don't we think it's going to happen? Because it's kind of pointless now. You know, I saw, uh, did Dana shoot down in a national fight week? He did that already.

He did that. Yeah, he did that already. Yeah. So. Okay. Because I'm not, I'm not mad at that date. I mean, I think that gives them time. I'm looking, I'm trying to look it up right now.

I think international fight week is, uh, that would be UFC 303, June 29th, if I'm reading this correct. that gives him a good amount of time you know if he if he jumps in camp now or very soon uh that gives him time i think i saw one of the fighters actually accidentally was announcing his fight and mentioned that would be possible Connor Chandler headliner so this probably rumble this probably talks about this and being the date but i would imagine it would be one of those 303 304 something i mean i don't know what 304 is but that time of the year a couple more months yeah if he does august like i remember when because you remember he

was going to headline UFC 200 and then they didn't come to a deal and they had that big controversy or whatever happened. There was like seemed like they were at odds. And then he ends up fighting AD as a UFC 202, which was in August, which was an incredible show. One of my favorite fights of all time that I was at. And I think that would, you know, maybe August. Like, you know, maybe they get, maybe they do Dustin and Islam and there's a lot of buzz

about that in June because Islam potentially could win and then still fight in October in Abu Dhabi because I know they probably want him to headline that card. But do that in June and maybe get Connor in August. I mean, again, I think at this point it's just getting a date, you know, and just getting a date done. And we go, know the UFC has booked it and it's ready to go. We're not like, we're not speculating because honestly, all we're going to do is speculate until it gets announced. Like, is it going to happen?

There's a long time where I was just like, this isn't going to happen. Like, it's been so long and like it just doesn't get booked. So yeah, when the UFC announces it, hopefully it happens this summer. We can all get excited about it. But, yeah, it's just, I'm done theorizing because we've done this for the past year. They did the ultimate fighter in March of last year. As when they started filming. Here we are here later and they still haven't fought.

It's crazy that that promotion, which normally obviously, historically, like you have the buildup is the ultimate fighter, right? And then they fight right after and I have to think that it's been a year since he shot that show. I mean, it's been quite a while. But again, I think the last time we

spoke, man, I was very optimistic about this fight happening in the near future. And I'm still in that and that train of thought where this summer, maybe a little bit after, I think we see it happening. Yeah, I sure hope so. So we are gearing up, of course,

UFC 300 now a couple weeks away. And I kind of in a way, listen, we got a great card this weekend. The UFC Atlantic City card is pretty solid. Of course, you got Aaron Blanchfield and Mendozao Fiore. You got Chris Wybin making his return. Vicente Lucke and Joaquin. And Wauke and Joaquin' really solid fight.

That card. And, of course, the following weekend, we got Brendan Allen and Chris Curtis, the rematch. That came to get a little shorter notice. But in a way, like is there is there any part of you out that almost like i don't say feels bad but it's almost like you kind of like feel for these these fighters a little bit these next two weeks because everyone

is getting so geared up for 300 that it's almost like it's almost like it's we usually get excited for fights it almost like we feel like we got to get through these fights so we can get to 300 it's a feeling that everyone has right now right it's kind of the uh the hangover from the big fights and now we're watching these other fights and then um we just got to get through it you know Again, you have to look at some of these fight cards right now. They're adjusting because we put all our best fighters on these big, huge cards. So obviously there's going to be some fight nights that aren't that spectacular. You have to look at the main events and think, all right, what's at stake in these fights for the main event?

And we saw that last, this past weekend with Rose. Obviously, the card wasn't stacked, but we knew that if Rose could get the victory, she's now in that title hunt once again. Her name is back on the map, right, to throw her in different. matchups, right? And then as you just mentioned, Atlantic City is coming up this weekend. More girls than the same in the Flyway Division. Manoff, Your Aaron Blanchfield, I think the winner of this matchup, this weekend in Atlantic City is probably going to be fighting for the belt next. I know Rose had spoke about possibly fighting. Who did she? Macy Barber. She mentioned her. Thank you very much about Macy. And I think that's the right

matchup right. That's what I say go with that because Rose was, I don't even think Rose, I don't even think Rose at this point is ranked in a flyweight division because she's been on and off. She switched way classes. Macy's someone who's been on a tear lately. That's a good matchup because when you look at Atlantic City, Manoffior, Aaron Blanchfield, these are the two top girls in a division that aren't already fighting for the belt. I think the winner of that one, depending on their performance, but the winner of that one gets the next crack at it.

Let Rose and Macy kind of handle things out and see who's going to be coming up for a title shot after that. It's interesting because Rose is pretty clearly one of the bigger names in all the women's divisions, you know, former championless kind of things. But I remember when she first announced moving to flyweight, and I interviewed Aaron Blanchfield about it, and Aaron, because at that point she had booked the five of Meno. And Aaron said, I don't really like the move for Rose because she wasn't the biggest straw weight. And now she's going to try to pack out. She's a very wiry, you know, kind of thin fighter. And she's like, I don't really like that she's doing it. I don't know if that's the best move.

And then, of course, you know, to her credit, you know, she won pretty handily. It wasn't like a, you know, completely blowout, but, you know, Mano beat her pretty handily. And so, like, beating Amanda Hebas is a good win. Make no mistake about it. But Hebus is also a fighter who came up from 115 and is fighting it at flyweight. I don't know. Like, I think there's still a little of the jury is out on how Rose is going to do it this weight class. Like, I think Macy Barber would be a – I mean, now Macy Barber is ranked in the top five.

Like, that would be an incredibly tough test. for her and I love Rose. I think Rose is amazing, but sometimes the weight class moves works, sometimes they don't. I'm not saying she should go back to 115, but I'm not sold yet on her viability as a true contender at

125 because losing to Fiore, again, no shame in losing to Mano Fiore. She's a very good fighter, but then beating Heba who is really a natural straw weight in her own right, I don't know that's like the one that I'm going. And I'll be honest, I was gone this weekend. I didn't watch the whole

fight. Not going to sit here in lies that I watched it intently, but I did see the highlights. I did see the play by play. And, you know, it seemed like she won, but no one was like, you know, oh my God, what a performance, you know, it wasn't, you know, like when she knocked out Yonna or anything. So I'm kind of like, I think the jury still out a little bit on where, what Rose can do it, flyway, to be honest. Yeah. And I think that's why Macy Barber is the perfect opponent for Rose right now in her career to see how well can she compete with the physicality of the girls in that division because when you look at macy she is probably one of the more physical in the entire division i mean when you talk about just overall it's just physicality strength but the the pressure

that she has on the feet um she's strong on the ground she's really well rounded she's on a tear of a wind streak if rose is going to be viable in this division if she's going to be able to compete with the top girls and the bigger girls and the stronger girls somebody like macy barber is going to be a really tough test for her but if she could pass that one then yeah then i think she is able to compete with the elite at the top right now And I think Macy needs it as well because Macy is on a good win streak right now, I think six in a row, and beating Caitlin, I still want to say Chukagan. Serminara is her name now. I have to, you can correct myself or her a married name.

A good win, don't get me wrong, but I don't know that anyone walked away from that fight saying, man, like she's such a threat now to win the title. She obviously has the loss to Grasso in there. Again, no shame in Natalex has been incredible at flyweight. but I think if Macy can beat a big name like a Rose Namibunis, that does a lot for her career and kind of propels her forward to where she becomes a name in her own right. Not that she's not a name already, but again, Rose is an established former champion.

It's kind of what Aaron Blanchville got beating Jessica Androchev the way she did. Like when she went out there and just put it on Jessica Androchevich, choked her out, put her away in two rounds. Everyone's like, oh my God, like Aaron Blanchville is for real. I think Macy could use that kind of fight with Rose, big name, former champion, established, maybe a main event or co-main event, go out there and get a win like that. So I think it's a good fight for both of them in a lot of ways.

Because I think Macy has looked great, but she hasn't quite got to that top five yet. She hasn't fought, you know, she hasn't fought the Valentina's of the world. She hasn't fought Amanda Limo. She hasn't fought like the Aaron Blanchills, the man O for yours yet. I think Rose would be a good next step to get her closer to that. So I think that fight does make a lot of sense, and it weighs for both of them. Yeah, it certainly puts her on the map, right? It's the feather and a cap now.

If she's able to beat Rose, that's that big name, the former champion that she now has on her resume. And I think stylistically, it could give her a dominant type of performance. And I don't know if that's the way the fight goes. But again, when I talk about Macy's style and the physicality, and we're talking about Rose, who's more of like a Shano-Malley type fighter,

very smooth and fluid. And when you watch your fight, you're like, wow, she's so good in every area. but how does she compete with that style against a bruiser type fighter like a macy right and if she could handle that again i think it's it speaks a lot to rose's adjustment at the new weight class but for macy um it's a good matchup it's a good matchup a very tough matchup you know and a skilled established fighter like rose but i think her style bears well against somebody like rose yeah it's an interesting matchup i think it makes a lot of sense and i think that would be a good win to book for later

in the year. The rest of the car, got to be honest again, didn't watch the whole car, one of the rare weekends where I was off and traveling, so I didn't get a chance to watch the rest of the car,

saw the highlights, saw some of the big news, the one poor guy who got bit, which I was like, where in the... I was like, how does this happen? You get bit in the octagon, and it was a nasty bite, too.

I was like, good Lord, man, you fought a lot in your career, and obviously you didn't always fight in the UFC, so you fought in, like, local shows, regional shows coming up. What's the worst... I'm curious, what is the worst foul

you ever had committed against you in a fight. Do you remember, like, was it a blow, blow? Was it like, what's the worst value ever? Because biting somebody is kind of like a new low. It's odd, right? I mean, it's like a, it's a desperation act. It's a desperation attempt. You're going to do that. How are you going to bite somebody and think that it's not going to get seen? It's not going to get noticed. They're going to go unnoticed. I mean, how can you think that that would happen? And the guy even kind of denied it. It was very odd of him to do that. As for me, I had never been bit obviously it never been bit in any outrageous fouls on me for me it was more the

opposite where i was always fighting with something injured i broke i've broken my foot twice and broken my hand once and fights and so having to fight through that having to take away one of my main weapons and then use something else i remember when i broke my hand against balaah mahomet they go hey you're good you got elbows and so i was just throwing elbows all as best that i could but you have to kind of deal with them circumstances for that fighter to be in a position like that where it wasn't even like a fight ending sequence it wasn't like he was trying to stay above water and this is what he had to do to stay afloat for survival this was just kind of a

a brain fart and man I mean you talk about backfired on him the guy got cut from the UFC and his opponent got a bonus I mean it was the worst possible move and I don't know if I agree Damon on on cutting a guy from a bonehead move I'm not I don't disagree but I don't know how strong I feel on the repercussions that you take on it. But what I do like about it is it sets a tone, right? Don't do any stupid shit in the big show. You come up to the big show.

You come to the UFC. This isn't, this isn't, like, you don't, this isn't a regional show. And this isn't some other organization where we just have some random fighters that are kind of figuring stuff out. This is supposed to be the highest level in the UFC. And if you're going to do these type of things, it's a bad look in the UFC. Like, what are these random guys doing? They're not polished.

You're not seasoned yet. So I like that Dana White set the tone right. way. We don't play these games in the UFC and he got his pink slips because of it. And we got to be honest. Or walking papers rather. Yeah, and you got to be honest about that like because, you know, I'm not trying to knock the guy. I don't want to, you know, he's probably

feeling pretty down already. I don't want to kick the guy while he's down. But he was, that was his debut. It wasn't like he was an established veteran, a top 15 fighter, and he made a really dumb mistake. Maybe he had a little bit of goodwill built up and then they say, well, you know, we're not going to, we're not going to fire you, we're not going to let you go.

You do something like this in your first appearance in the UFC and you get released. Like that may be it. Like he may never get to come back. Like he may know, he could go on a 20-fight win streak and Dana remembers him as the guy who bit somebody in the octagon. Like that talk like that I'm not saying ends his career. But Alan, let's be honest. And I'm not trying to knock anyone who fights in PFL or any other organization. But the goal for 98% of fighters is to get to the UFC. That is the Super Bowl of mixed martial arts. To get to that organization, this guy through one really

stupid move. And I only call it a mistake. He didn't do it accidentally. It's not like you throw an errant kick and it hit him in the balls. He bit the guy. You may have effectively ended your chances of ever fighting in the UFC. I'm not going to, you know, we've seen other things. You remember back in the day when Paul Daly punched Josh Kosteck after the bell and Dana booted him. And I thought, because Paul was such a veteran had been around for so long, I thought, you know, when eventually cooler heads will prevail, they'll bring him back. because Paul's, you know, he did something really stupid, but they'll bring him back. They never did.

Like, they washed their hands of Paul Daly, and he never saw the UFC again. Now, you know, he's still on a career outside the UFC. But yeah, for this guy, he's not Paul Daly. He doesn't have that name. He doesn't have that record. Like, this guy may have effectively ended his hopes of ever fighting the UFC by this boneheaded move. Yeah. And again, I credit the UFC, keeping the bar set high, right?

I mean, I know right now this is not the strongest as an incomplete stable of fighters that the UFC's ever had because we've got the most inflated roster that we've ever had. We've got like 700 plus fighters right now, which is about 200 more than the average. Normally the UFC would keep around 500, give or take fighters, right? We've got more fighters than ever, but it's great because it gives more fighters opportunities. It gives more people like us, more work, more things to talk about. And we are finding new stars with this process. The more we bring in the United Way Continent Series, we're getting a star now and then,

although we are seeing some fighters who probably aren't ready for the big show. But what I'm getting at is the UFC has always set the bar high where a lot of incidents like this don't happen. Yes, look, there's been some big shows, some big fights where an iPoke occurred in the very first round. And now was the main event. And now the fight's over. And it's like it's a huge, just momentum drop.

But you don't see what was the fighter in the PFL recently, the really good fighter that had the splinter in his foot. And I hate that. Cedric Dunebe, yeah, Cedric Dunebe, right? And he's a dangerous fighter, but he had a splinter in his foot. And, you know, I wasn't there to know what he was going through or what it was. But like I said, I fought with broken feet. I fought with broken hands.

And I always finished a fight. A matter of fact, I won those fights. And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back. But if fighters can win fights with broken noses, broken jaws, broken hands, and broken feet, If you've got a splinter in your foot, you've got to find a way to get through the round. You can't make it that big of an issue. Even if you're not able to push off of it

because you're a striker and it's really just pressing into an area of your body that's sending a nerve up your body. Okay, so offensively, you can't move forward as much. But get through the round, take the splinter out, and then continue the fight. We have found a way in the UFC that when fighters make kind of bonehead decisions like the biting and like the punch after the bell, Dana White gets rid of them. It says, look, maybe you're not cut out.

out for the UFC. Maybe you're better for another organization. I like that we keep the standard high. Even if some of the fighters aren't quite ready to be in the UFC, we're grooming them in the UFC. But if you're making bonehead decisions, you're not right for the UFC. Absolutely. 100% agree. And I agree with you on the Dune Bay thing, too. And I don't want to, I don't want to knock the guy, but you know, you're right. Like we've seen, I mean, you remember guys who've come out with one way. John Jones, broken toe. That was, I was at that fight. I remember the photo that showed afterwards. I don't get squeamish. You see, I'm a horror movie fan. I love

horror and gore. That toe photo grossed me out. I was like, that is the most disgusting thing ever. And if they would have gone between rounds, you know, he may have just had to fight stop because his toe was so mangled. But you fight on that. And again, I don't want to sit in and kick the guy while he obviously had a bad moment. But we've seen guys on

one leg hop out to fight. And of course, you know, smartness prevails. The referee will, you know, not let a guy fight on one leg when he's clearly compromised and hopping around with an injury. But like guys will do that. Like I remember when Michael Chandler had that situation in Bellator where he heard his that where he had that drop ankle, whatever they call it, the same thing Sean O'Malley dealt with and he'd lost a fight and he wanted to keep going. Yeah, yeah, Perenni,

there you go. Like that's, and again, but that shows you the difference of like the experience and the know-how because guys who are that banged up and injured, they'll crawl to a fight. Like, you know, they do not want to get out of that fight. I remember back in the day, you mentioned your broken hand. fight. I think it was, I want to say it was Uriah Faber and Mike Brown their rematch. He broke both his hands and at one point in the fight, Uriah Fiber was literally swinging his elbows the whole time.

Because he had no hands left, but he's still out there swinging. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's, look, Michael Bisbee became a world champion with one eye. If you've got something going on with you, you have to be able to fight through it when there's a lot at stake, when you're in the big show, when this is where you wanted to be your entire career and you have that opportunity, you have the tough it out. You have to find a way to do it. And you can't, you cannot make bonehead decisions like biting a guy like this. This isn't Mike Tyson, Nevada Holyfield. I mean, now, again, this is a,

when we, you talk about this was his debut. This is, Mike Tyson, Ivana Holofield are world champions, biggest stars in a sport of boxing, guys with a backstory and it was headbutting. It was a storyline going on that made Mike Tyson react like that. Was it the right decision? No. But there was a storyline about that, okay, that led up to that. But you're in a fight on a, on a, lower level apex card with not a lot of names making your debut. You got to go out there and shine like it's a contendous series. You can't make a bonehead decision like that. So, again, I don't ever want to applaud a guy losing his job,

but I do love the reaction of the boss man Dana, keeping the standards of UFC higher than other organizations. 100%. Yeah, you can't do that. And again, I'm not saying like, I'm not saying if Sean O'Malley had done that to Cheetah Verrett would have been any better. But, you know, you would hope that, you know, like, everyone, you know, just like anything else, like when guys do something stupid, and certainly biting is probably near the top of that list, but you do something stupid in a fight,

you know, you may have earned some goodwill when you're a Sean O'Malley or a bigger name or a guy who's got 30 fights in the UFC, whatever. Still not right. You still should do it, of course, but you're a debuting fighter. You know, your job is to go out there and impress and get brought back for a second fight, not bite your opponents and get disqualified. Not only that you get disqualified, you lose your job. And as I said earlier, I would wager.

And I'm not, you know, I know you're not supposed to bet, Alan. I would wager, that's probably it. Like, I don't think they're ever going to want to bring him back. Like, he, again, he could go on an incredible win streak and impress everybody. But you bit somebody in your first fight in the octagon getting disqualified. They're not going to forget that. They're not going to just, oh, yeah, he's a great. Oh, what?

He bit a guy. What? I don't remember that. They're going to remember this. Everyone's talking about it. He may have effectively ended his chances of ever fighting in the, by that one incredibly stupid move. Hey, when you're George Mazadol and you're in the back getting interviewed and you see Leon

Edwards and you're two stars of the sport and you hit, you attack him like that, that three piece in a soda, he got away with that. It made him a bigger star because of who he was in the backstory and what they had done in the UFC. But when you're a debuter, you better not go three piece in a soda somebody because Dana's going to give you the boot. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded. Two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left.

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platform. With automation, friendly reminders, and best-in-class customer service, Betterment makes it easy to make good investment decisions. You don't need a Nobel Prize to be a great investor. All you need is Betterment. Go to Betterment.com to learn more. That's B-E-T-E-R-M-E-N-T-com. Investing involves risk, performance not guaranteed. 100%. Now, one thing I wanted to talk about, and I'm really glad that you're on the show this week, Alan, because not only do you do the analyst stuff, but we've talked a lot of times, you do play-by-play commentary, you've done at LFA, you do it great, and I know we've talked about eventually making that transition in the EOC. I really hope that happens for you in the near future. But I do know from having guys, like I've been close with Daniel Cormier for many, many years. I have DC on the podcast a lot. Michael Bisping, good friend, Paul Felder has come on and done the show. And to be clear, I think everybody, everybody who does. commentary in the UFC currently I've interviewed or had since they've been a commentator, you know, from, you know, even Joe Rogan, I've talked to many times. I've talked to me.

I've talked to many times over the year, John Anick down the line. It is, it is so largely a thankless job because generally speaking, you get, it's almost like being a referee in a way. You get, you get criticized when you say anything that people don't like, but generally speaking, people aren't, you know, knocking down the roof saying, man, what a great job calling that fight. Like usually it's the negative stuff, which is kind of the unfortunate side of. business. But on Saturday night, Laura Sanko is doing commentary, of course, and I love Laura.

I think her getting an opportunity to call fights has been incredible. I think she's been a great addition to the team. But a lot of controversy came up to her, former WEC champion, had tweeted at her about, I want to read these. I don't want to shine a light on his comments, but I do want to, you know, because, you know, he actually tweeted this out there. He said, Laura Sanko sucks so bad at commentating. She's a tryhard that speaks about things. She knows nothing about, talking about blast doubles and how tiring it could be in the first round of the fight. Like, what do you know about any of those things? Stay in your lane.

Laura Sanko is ruining the fights by talking so much. Leave the commentary to the people that have actually fought a female UFC fighter. Should have had that job. She is just annoying. And it's obvious she is trying so hard and doesn't know what she is talking about. Now, to her credit, Laura Sanko did respond. And her response was so incredibly classy and exactly what you would expect out of Laura Sanko. She said, respond to Jamie Varner and said, you and I actually.

fought on the same card in 2011 for Titan FC. We warmed up next to each other in the basement of the Memorial Hall building in Kansas City. My best friend braided your hair because you couldn't find anyone to do it. I remember thinking how cool it was at the time to be on a car with you. I had followed your career in the WC and it was a little starstruck, to be honest. It's okay that you don't like my commentary, but respectfully, I've been part of this game

and training since 2006. I'm a brown belt and jiu-jitsu. And while I can't compare my career to yours, I have in fact fought. And if UFC had a 105 pound division, I would have fought a lot longer. Very classy, very classy response from Laura Sanko exactly what you expect. Now, I know Jamie. I haven't talked to him in many years. He's been retired. And so, you know, that's just how the sport goes.

You've got to fade off and do your own thing. But I've interviewed Jamie a lot during his day and interviewed him a ton when he was in the WEC. I said this on Twitter, and I want to talk about this, but I want to show it to you, Alan, because you do the job. You do the job the Laura does. So you know how hard it is. I said, listen, I think Laura is fantastic at her job. But I understand everyone's going to have a different opinion. A lot of people hate, like I see it all the time,

you hate Daniel Cormey's commentary or Joe Rogan's commentary. I love them both. I think, honestly, the UFC is a great commentary team right now. Like, I get excited when I hear in DC, I think, brings a level of enthusiasm. But I know it's not for everybody, and that's fine. But I said, you're allowed to have your opinion. Everyone is. That's part of life.

But at least have an informed opinion. And that's my biggest issue of what you. Jamie Varner said, taking cracks at Laura Sanko saying she hasn't fought. It takes three seconds to go on Google and look and see she has. But even if she hasn't been a professional fighter, Joe Rogan's never fought. He's a martial artist. He's never fought. No, I don't see people criticize that you're not a real fighter.

Everyone loves Joe. Why? Because Joe's knowledgeable. He's been around the sport forever. He trains martial arts. Just because he didn't fight in the UFC doesn't make his opinion any less valid. But I wanted to get your opinion on this, Alan. because you do the job.

You do the exact same job Laura does. You know how hard it is. And I'm not sitting here trying to like, let's just sit here and praise Laura. But it bug me. That comment, because it's from a fighter. It's from an athlete and a well-known fighter,

a good fighter. Man, this is a, it's one of those things that nobody can win over the crowd. Nobody will win over every fan, no commentator rather, right? Everybody, D.C., I think DC's the best. When you look at checking off every box,

enthusiasm, knowledge, his resume, just being a natural at it, right? And he's got almost like the big guy chuckle, which wins over a lot of people. You know, the bigger guy, he makes a lot of jokes, isn't that. Some people don't like that style, that he gets off track sometimes.

But he keeps it fun, and he's very knowledgeable, and he can flip the switch in a heartbeat to go back to being very analytical if it's needed. But sometimes for the apex card, you need to kill some time. Laura is doing the best job that she can and she's very good at it and she's very educated. She speaks so well and she does have the background to back it up. The problem is I think what Jamie Varner is focusing too much on is that look, okay, maybe she wasn't a blast double type of fighter, but she still fought.

But it doesn't mean that you can't say that she doesn't know what it's like or an educated opinion on it. haven't been around the sport for so long. I wasn't a blast double guy either, right? But if I see a blast double, I know how to speak on it. And that's what Laura's doing. She's staying in her lane pretty much. And is she a try hard? Yes, because she does have to try hard.

Because she's the only woman in all of combat sports that's doing this. She's the only one of them that is up there currently as a color commentator who has not fought in the UFC. So she has to bring something else to the table, right? She has to bring knowledge and an educated approach. And she has to think, okay, let me peel back the onion a little bit and think about what can I deliver, what kind of offer to the fans to educate them and paint a picture of what should be happening or what could be happening in this fight that D.C. won't offer. She has to bring something else to the table. So that's why she does have to try hard. And some people don't like it.

Some people don't see it that way. But I think Laura, sometimes she says things that is so smart. and she's able to kind of crystallize this picture that a lot of us fighters don't have the vocabulary or the education to do so, right? And so everybody has their strengths, right? And Laura is very good at speaking and breaking things down. And she does have the resume of a fighting career, as you said. Joe Rogan didn't fight.

John Anik didn't fight. And you look at top journalists, you probably didn't fight. Ariel Lohani probably didn't fight. But if you've been around the sport long enough, you know what to look for. And she has to, her job is to now educate the fans of what's happening or possible high percentage answers of what could be happening or what could have been done. And that's what she's doing. So I think, I think Varner's just, he's focusing on the wrong things too much, right?

He's focused. What do you know about a blast double? How many times you try to blast double? She knows, she grapples. Maybe that's not her go-to move, but she is educated enough to speak on the fact. And I think he just got a little off track. You know, everybody has certain people that they like more or they don't like more. But they come out publicly and speak so harshly on it.

It's a bad move by Jamie. It's, to your point, I actually said this on last week's show. I trained a lot when I was younger. And I said this to Matt Brown on our show last week. I said at one point, I got offered a fight. And the guys like, we got a fight. You know, I think it would be fun. I was living in Cincinnati trained there.

And he's like, do you want to fight? And I said, you know what? I thought about it for a day and I was like, you know what? I'm just not built for it. I love training. I love doing jitsu. I love doing wrestling, but I'm just not built for it. I know me. And that's one of the reasons why I hold fighters in such high regard because I can't do what you do. I respect you so much because I can't do that. I don't have it in me. You know what I mean? I knew that about myself. I knew I wasn't built to be a fighter.

But I've been covering the sport for 20 years. So I feel like I have a knowledge base and I understand the sport pretty well, having been around it. My first UFC that I attended was UFC 47. Like, I've been around for that long. So, like, like, I understand, because I, I, not to get too far off topic, but I understand the logic of, like, everyone's saying, well, you haven't done it. I don't think you have to do it to be smart about it, though. Like I said, Joe Rogan is incredibly knowledgeable. He's ever fought. He's done martial arts tournaments. He's done taekwendo, things like that. But that's not MMA. I mean, I did jiu-jitsu. I did kickboxing stuff. I just, I did in the gym. We had full unspricable. barring sessions and stuff like that.

I did all that kind of stuff. I didn't fight. When they came to me and said, do you want to fight? I said, you know what? I know that's not me. And again, that's why I hold fighters in such high regard, because it takes a lot just to step foot into that cage

and actually do battle with another person. I knew that wasn't me, so I didn't do it. But even if you haven't, that doesn't mean you can't be knowledge about the battle sport. And the only reason this one bugged me so much is because Jamie Varner is a fighter. You know, and it's like, It's one thing of a fan says it.

Okay, we understand it's going to happen. Fans are going to be mad about everything and that's totally okay. And again, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But at least have an informed opinion. When you come out and criticize Laura Sanko and one of your biggest criticisms of Laura Sanko is she's not a fighter, you've just exposed yourself. It takes two seconds. She fought. She fought Invicta.

It doesn't take a genius. If that's your criticism that she doesn't know the sport because she didn't. and fight, which again, I don't even think that's a legit criticism because where are you calling out Joe Rogan for that? But be that as it may, you can't make a criticism built around. She hasn't fought. She doesn't know what she's talking about when she has fought. She fought on the same card as you once.

Like that to me disqualifies everything you said. Her job is to go out there and make informative, not decision, she, informative language for the viewer to understand it and make it an enjoyable experience. And she does just that, right? It's another thing, if D.C. is watching a guy and he's hanging on to the double leg against the fence for way too long,

and we all know, this guy needs to switch to the single leg or go high crotchy, he needs to mix it up. DC can now say, this guy, he's hanging on to this too long. I would definitely go to the single leg. I mean, this is a low percentage move. I think he's still kind of green in this area. D.C. could say that

because he's a world champion and because he's been to the Olympics. Laura does a good job of not doing that, not saying this is what I would do. Laura now knows what's high percentage and she usually verbalizes it in a way like the smarter move to right here, the higher percentage move would be to go to this. We've seen this numerous times. Laura does all our research. We've seen that this is a low percentage move against the cage.

Some guys are still kind of learning it. She never puts herself out there like I'm better or I would have done better. And so I think she stays in her lane in terms of what she has accomplished and her knowledge does is speaking for her rather than saying me personally i would have done better and so that's why it's it's hard to be so so hard so harsh on somebody like laura when i think she does a very good job of using the the fight experience that she has and and and the education that she has in the sport to vocalize that for the fan she's not she's not out here saying like come on tough it up you got a broken foot i would have fought through that that's something like bisming or me or

somebody else who had fought with a broken bone would say Laura has never done that she never throws fighters under the bus she gives an educated opinion on what should be happening and that's all she could do and to turn this back to you Alan because you do this job you do commentary you know how tough it is when you got to call a full car like when you call LFA you got to call a lot of fights they're not going to all be great you know you're going to have a couple stinkers in there some boring fights things like that you got a lot of airspace to fill a lot of time to fill all those kind of things it is a hard job. Like I think people take it for granted.

I remember years ago I got to try out doing commentary and I thought, oh, I can do this. I can do commentary. And like, in two fights, I was like, this is so difficult. Like, I know the sport, but when you've got to fill that much air time and really, like, really analyze the fights during,

like, I'm just saying, like, again, your perspective is so unique because you do it. You know how hard it is. Like, I think that's one thing that everyone should, I think everyone takes for granted because we're like, oh, you're calling UFC. it's so much fun.

I'm sure it is fun. I love my job too. I love doing what I do. I get to talk on a podcast with Alan Frickin Joe Band. This is awesome. I love my job. But it doesn't mean it's easy.

It doesn't mean just because you love doing it. It's easy. Commentary is hard. You know it's hard. You're getting to get criticized every time, right? I mean, you're not going to win over every fan. And a lot of fans have their favorites. And when they don't have their favorite,

one of their least favorites are commentating, they're going to criticize. and you see that quite a bit in this sport. The best thing to do is just stay away from it, but it's impossible not to look and see, especially when we're talking about your career, something like this. You know, it was much easier I found as a fighter.

If somebody criticized me about fighting, oh, this dude sucks. This guy's going to get wiped out. This guy's going to get knocked out. That's because they don't like me or whatever, right? But when you go out there and you study and you train and you call a fight. And your job is to build these fighters,

make this event not about you, but about the fighter, and make this exciting. And then also give your educated opinion on certain areas to help kind of guide the audience through these fights with you. You're telling a story and you want them to come along in the story with you,

but the whole time the focus is the star of the show is the fighters. that's that's that's that's that's all that we're trying to do but it you not you don't always make everybody happy in the in these things and when when somebody obviously laura wasn't one of jamie varner's favorite favorite commentators and he found an event that he just got his phone in his hand and said i'm going to go off on her it was a wrong move it was a bad move by him yeah i agree i agree and listen there's a reason why people working for the oc and working calling stuff for esp and get brought back a lot of people get tryouts and i'm not trying to knock anybody who gets a out and doesn't come back because it is a hard job.

But there's a reason why when you see the rotating people doing analysts work and doing commentary are there. The UFC didn't choose Laura Sanko by mistake. Like they knew what she could do and they put her in that role. There's a reason she continues to do that job because she does it well. There's a reason Alan Joban gets brought back and does a constant, you are a constant rotation in the UFC broadcast team doing analyst work. And again, I think you will eventually transition into doing commentary because you do a great job.

Now, again, I've seen a lot of guys and other people get opportunities, and maybe they're just not built for public speaking. Maybe they're just like, it's hard to verbalize that, you know, when you're doing, when you're doing analysts work, things like that. But when they bring in guys like you, Anthony Smith, Rashad Evans, there's like there's a knowledge base there. And there's a reason why you guys constantly are working. That's why we always see you calling fights or backstage working the fights because you do a good job. The UFC's a business, you know, a guy biting a guy. and the octagon is bad for business they're going to let him go if you don't do a good job they're not going to bring you back now they'd be nice about it and say you know we're just not going to put you on

the rotation anymore there's a reason why alan juban is backstage calling and and working analyst gigs you know two three times a month sometimes because they know you're good at your job like what the criticism aside like they're not going to bring you back if you're not good at your job laura is a unicorn for the ufc right that's why they love her that's why zach candido puts her on so many on so many jobs. Because how many of us that do this can do color commentary, can do the desk job post

and pre-fight show, can do sideline reporting, can do interviews backstage, oh, also has a great personality, can go do the way-in show with D.C. and hold her own against former champions while they're drinking beer in a very guy-oriented environment and hold her own.

She could do all these jobs and hang with everybody. She's like a utility. of this type of job. They can put her anywhere and she'll be able to do a great job. That's why she's always constantly on TV because she can do it all. She really can.

So now, Alan, I'm going to make you make a promise because you come in and you host and show pretty often with me. You are going to eventually get that commentary gig whether you're going to go into a contender series, whatever. You're going to get that gig. I know obviously we're going to do Road to UFC.

We already talked that with the whole situation that happened, unfortunately, with last year. But I want to do this because I think it'd be hilarious because you're a guy, I feel like because you do this, You do this on top of, on top of work in his analysts. Like you do radio, you do Sirius X-7.

Of course, you're coming to co-host. It's a lot. You're used to it. Like, you understand the criticism. It seems like you have pretty thick skin. You understand it. You know that segment they do on Jimmy Kimmel where they do the mean tweets? They have celebrities read out the mean tweets and they're always really funny.

I feel like when you get your first UFC gig, whatever it is, you got to come on the show that Monday. And we're going to read through the comments and have some fun. You got to do it. You got to come on and do it. I'll try to have some fun. What I was going to, I was saying something. and I lost my train of thought like five minutes ago. But what I was going to say was fighting when people talk trash about you,

it's kind of easier. It's not as bad because you get it. You're just not their favorite fighter. But commentators, we put so much effort into this that we read them. We read them. It's inevitable. As I was saying, you can't look at the comment section when you're a fighter. But when you're an analyst or your color commentating, we want to know.

Like when people say, oh, my God, I learned something new today from Alabama. on Jovan, I love when he breaks things down because I didn't even see that. To me, that is the most fulfilling thing in the world. And that's how a lot of these analysts and color commentators feel. So when they're negative about what you said, when they're harsh and they criticize you, a lot of times what we're doing is we're looking at it and saying, okay, this was harsh. But is there something that I could fix here? Is there something?

I bet you, Laura, being the professional that she is, she's probably going to go back and saying, okay, this guy thinks I'm a try hard, that I'm just trying to overcompensate and this and that. Maybe there's something I could tweak because I want to do the best job possible. I want people to say, I got to have Laura back because she presents the story in a way that I haven't heard before. And so, yeah, it's something that that's to me the toughest part of the job is you want, you want to be perfect at it, but it's never going to happen. But I think a lot of us definitely read the comments more as an analyst than we did fighters. It's, it really is a, in a lot always a thankless job. Like, it's a great job, but like, and again, maybe I'm biased because

I talked to all you guys, but I think everybody that works the UFC, from the analyst to the commentary team, does a great job. I think the UFC has done a tremendous job. Like, I, yeah, I think Paul Felder's transition and done an incredible job. I think Michael Bisping has done an incredible job. I've said it before, and I know people don't all agree with me, but, like, Daniel Cormier is one of my favorite guys to hear because he brings such an infectious enthusiasm to the big cards. Like, it's just so much. fun when he went I mean I will remember we're talking about Rose Domit is that call when she knocked out you know and he's thug Rose Thug Rose Thug Rose. Like that enthusiasm. There's a reason why Joe

Rogan is such a popular guy with those pay-per-view broadcasts because he brings a certain level of enthusiasm when he calls fights and he screams and freaks out and like we all have that. So yeah, I think listen I think everyone that does it right now does a great job. And there's a I mean, listen, I'm not going to lie and say there's commentators across the sport that I'm not the biggest fan of. I'm not going to name names because I don't feel like I need to be cruel to anybody. But that's okay. Just because they're not for me, doesn't mean they're not for somebody else. Like, just because I personally like a different style of commentator doesn't mean that they don't do a good job. So yeah, it's a, I want to say it's a thankless job because I know you do get

praise and deservedly so. But we live in unfortunately kind of a negative society where the loudest negative voices get amplified. And Jamie Varner, because he's a former fighter, of course, it's going to get amplified that much more. But I'm quite sure if I look through Twitter on Saturday night, there's plenty of people, fighters who are like, what a great job, Laura Sanko. She did an incredible job. We just, unfortunately, that's the world we live in.

When someone says something bad, it gets amplified louder. Damon, I tell you what, what you said about whenever I do have my color commentating debut with the UFC, I'm going to try to take notes from Laura. I'm serious. I'm going to try to take notes because when I get that criticism by somebody, and they really let me have it, and they tell me how much they hate it,

Aiden, I'm going to try to take the high road like her because that is tough. That is tough because you just want to reply back about what the hell do they know and you try doing this job and all this stuff. But she took a very classy route. And that was tough to do, man. So credit to her. And I'm going to try to. I'll see if I can take the high road when I get that criticism as well one day.

Now we mentioned earlier, Alan, of course, we listen again, I want to be clear about this. I actually really do like the Atlantic City card coming up this weekend. and, you know, I had a chance to talk to Aaron Blanchfield, interview Chris Weibben. Of course, Chris Weidman's a little bit back against the wall coming off the broken leg in the fight against Brad Tavares. He's 39. I think everyone knows where Chris is at in his career,

but he's got a big fight with Bruno Silva. Really solid card. I think Brendan Allen and Chris Curtis the week after that's a really fun fight. I think Brendan and Marvin Vittori was a fun fight as well, but there's history there because Chris has a win over Brendan. It was a short-noticed fight, and I know that's one that Brandon Allen has told me many times he wants back, and I'm sure you know Brendan really well.

course the Louisiana connection. But we've all kind of said, like we're all kind of, it's almost like we're getting through the speed bumps to get to UFC 300. So I'm not going to get into a full-on UFC 300 breakdown. That's just too early. I don't want to get, and again, I don't want to negate there's fights coming up this weekend and next weekend. But I am curious because this is such a stat card, top to bottom.

Of course, you got the main event, Alex Pereira against Jamal Hill. You got Justin Gagee, Max Holloway. We got Zhang Wei, Yan, Jan, and then all the way down to the first fight of the night, which is utterly ridiculous. that it's Devis and Figurado against Cody Garbrand. But I'm curious, Alan, and I know this is kind of off the cut, but when you look top to bottom, you have C-300, is there one fight on this card that you're super excited about that maybe?

I want to say, this is the wrong way to phrase it. When I say slipping under the radar, nothing is slipping under the radar with this card because it's so freaking stacked. But just like any other card, no matter how much we talk about it, we are eventually going to pay attention to the main card because that is the pay-per-view. I mean, that's inherently built into us as UFC fans, is we're going to build towards those made.

That's the crescendo. That's the moment. But is there any fight on this car that you're looking forward to? You're like, man, that is one that I'm super excited about. For me, it's Kayla Harrison and Holly Holm. Because for a long time, I've said, I think Kayla Harrison is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time. When you look at what she did in judo, two gold medals, no American has ever done that. No Americans ever won a gold medal, much less two of them in judo.

and I think she's an incredibly talented fighter. But, drop into 135. I've seen the photos. She definitely looks thinner. She looks like she's losing weight. Holly Holm, former champion. And I think there's a reason why they made this matchup because Holly did to Rhonda Rousey,

who was, of course, an Olympic bronze medalist. So that's the one I'm most curious about just because there's so many unanswered questions going into it. Because I love Kail. I think she's incredible, but I also love Holly. I think that's a really difficult matchup for your first fight in the O.C. So for me, that's kind of the one. the one that's not like the main event or the kind of main card that I'm like super excited about.

Is there one for you that you're looking at? Say, man, that's a really intriguing matchup that I just can't wait to see. Is there one on the card you got to get your eye on? I was trying to bring it up in front of me because the problem is with this card. It's so stacked that I could go through every fight. I can go through every fight and have reasoning to contend why this might be one of the better fights on the card. As you just said, the first fight of the night with I was in Figurato and,

and Cody Garbrand, Cody Gorbairn going on coming off of that knockout, two guys that are just aggressive fighters that laid it all on the line. I feel like once we get the ball rolling with that first fight, every fight is like this fight's next. You know, that normally happens when you get to the pay-per-view portion. And you get to that like Cocoa, Maine, that feature fight of the night, you're like, oh, this is next. This is the banger.

That's not for a title, but this is the fight that everybody wants to see. Oh, and then after this, this is what's next. I love when you get to that part of any pay-per-view. we're going to have that feeling from from fight one fight one on the card this is next this is the next one you're kidding me this is on the early prelim so i'm excited for all of them man i mean i'm kind of avoiding your question not on purpose but the i'm really when we talk when we speak about curiosity level uh and and and shaping out what's going to happen next to the division i can't take my eyes off of the lightweight division right now when you look at the the charles oliver and

I'm on Sauruqi, and that one is probably the fight that I have the most curiosity about, because for me, that's the fight that the most is at stake on this entire card. I feel like the winner of that fight could be fighting for the belt next. But then you look at the BMF fight, and it's like, well, maybe if Justin Gishi wins, that he's the guy, because already, why was he not fighting for it, right? But he's going against Max Holloway, and if Max Holloway wins, that just throws a wrench in everything. I mean, that just messes everything up. But if Justin Gishi wins, and he's a BMF title holder and where he's ranked in the division,

you should be fighting for the belt. So it's really, I'm so curious to see what happens with the division with these two phenomenal matchups in the two cards. But it's also, it's going to dictate so much on shifting the division. Who gets the next fight? It's those fights, man. The lightweight division, I think, is a little bit in the spotlight when you look at the paper view portion of the card. and you know as well as I do, Alan, that style points count, whether we'd like to talk about or not, it does.

Charles Olivaire is an incredibly exciting fighter. We just saw what Armin did to B'Neil Daryush. And obviously, he had that incredible fight. I know he lost, we had that incredible fight with Matush Gamron, not that long ago. Justin Gaichy, I mean, come on, it's a Justin Gaetchi fight. We know what we're getting,

and Max Holloway is very much built the same way. Imagine being Charles and Armin, the second fight on the main card, and the next fight is, Justin and Max Holloway. Is that the bout order? They're back to back? They're back to back.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You know, I'm going to be pacing around the couch when this is happening. So, but I mean, imagine if you're, because obviously, I don't think Charles and Armand are going to be thinking about that whatsoever. They're just going out there to win a fight. But imagine you're going to be followed by the fighter we all probably consider the most exciting fighter, maybe in UFC history, just because Justin Gachie has every single fight he's ever

had, he's gotten some kind of bonus. imagine being and listen we all know how this works like you could have a great win if Charles Oliver goes out and wins a 29-28 decision against Armand Syrucian and then Justin Gachey goes out there

and has a 48-47 win against Max Holloway but it's fight of the year what are we going to be talking about afterwards? We're going to talk about the fight of the year not to say that Charles didn't do a good job but because we're going to be like oh my God did you see Justin and Holloway That's how this sport works, so for Armin and Charles' style points count.

Like, Armand can't just go out there and grind a decision and beat Charles Olivaire if he wants to get in consideration for a title shot. Charles Oliva can't go out and just eke by Armin Sarugan. It's a fascinating back to me. It's so fascinating because there's so much on the line and nothing is getting. I'm saying they're talking about Islam fighting Dustin now, which I'm fine with that, by the way. I have no problem if they do that. like give Dustin whatever he wants.

I got no problem with that. But now you're in a position where I think it's not Armine and Charles are competing for a number one contender or Justin and Max Holloway are competing. I think it's whoever looks the best of those two fights. That, that raises the stakes even more. Damon, I'm going to put you on the spot now because this is my question. I look at these two fights and Armand Sarucan versus Charles Oliver, I see that fight getting finished. one way or the other, one guy, I see a finish in that fight. I look at Gashi and Max Holloway.

Max Holloway's never been dropped in his career. So is Gasey going to knock him out? It could happen. He could leg kick the crap out of him as well and slow the fight down and maybe the TKO. But if Gishi wins, does he knock out Max Holloway, who's never even been dropped? The chances kind of lean towards no. Is Max Holloway going to knock out Gachie? I don't know.

Could he outstrike him with the quantity? of strikes that he has. So what I'm getting at is, if there's a huge finish in the Ramon-Sarouki and Charles Al-Avera fight either way, but there's a huge statement made versus a possible fight of the year in the following fight,

which one of these guys now has more momentum who is the title shot after that? By the year or a huge statement made? I think that's almost an impossible question to answer because when you think about it, like, because I mean, why did Charles Oliverer get right back into a title shot? off a loss to Islam because he went out there and knocked out Benile Daryush in one round.

Okay, you know, boom, right back into a title shot. It's because he made that statement. It wasn't a 29, 28 decision. It wasn't a split decision. He went out and knocked out Benile Darius, who was on an incredible win streak inside one round. Okay, we got to shift him right back into the title fight. You're absolutely right. And I don't know.

I hear I am. I'm ducking the question because I don't know. Because Charles and Armand both coming off huge knockouts. Armin goes out there and knocks out Charles Olivera would be insane because Charles is so good. We know how good he is. Armand, that's like a crowning achievement for Armin to go out and beat a guy like Charles Oliver. But then one fight later, we're sitting there buzzing because we just saw Justin Gagchi and Max Holloway go to absolute war for five rounds. And you made a great point about Max Holloway.

I mean, even when he lost to Destoporio Lightweight, like he didn't get knocked down. He didn't get knocked out. It was a great fight. I don't know. Have you seen any photos or videos of Max leading into this? looks a lot thicker. Like, I remember talking to Max right after the fight got made, and he said, no excuses for the Desta Porriere fight, but I was a featherweight just going in and fighting as a

lightweight. I didn't put on a ton of size because I knew I was going to go back. I just went in there and fought. This time, Max is like, I'm putting on size, I'm putting on muscle, I'm getting ready to be a lightweight. He looks thicker. He looks bigger. He might be able to have more of power in his punches.

I'm fascinated. And I don't have an answer for you because I, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I think at that point it's like a coin flip like you know what i mean like okay charles oliver chokes out armin sarukin and justin wins in a freaking absolute war with max holloway you can't pick wrong like okay charles oliver's number one contender okay justin gajs is the number one contender okay i'm not gonna if that's the result i don't think anyone should complain about who actually gets in the title shot i think there's no wrong answer but i'll give you my answer i think if someone gets a finish charles oliver or montserruchian that's who's

for the belt next because it's more of a statement made statement outweighs a fight of the night you know a fight of the night is something we're going to be talking about but the statement that was made is more impactful in my opinion especially when charles olivera's number one ranked so if the number one guy goes out there and makes a statement why is he not next if the number four guy omanserukian makes a statement against the number one guy how can you deny him that he's the young lion that just beat the number one contender in the world with a statement type fight You look at Justin Gashi versus Max Holloway. Not only is Max Holloway fighting up, so he's really fighting a smaller guy.

So he's supposed to kind of win theoretically, but not really. But it's also for the BMF. So what do we want? All we wanted the BMF is blood and violence anyway, right? We're expecting blood and violence. We don't want a first round knockout. We want a five-round war that's BMF worthy. I think we could talk about the BMF and how it was one of the greatest fights of the decade,

if that's how this fight, this fight plays out. But I think more eyes will be on how Armand's Rukin and Charles Alivara, how that fight goes. And if there is, which I predict a finish in that one, I think that catapults him into the spot. I think you may convince me because I think when I think about it, I think there's a much greater chance that there's a finish in Armin versus Charles than Justin against Max.

Because Max has never, Max has, you know, he hasn't, he hasn't really been, he hasn't been finished, what, since his first fight in the O.C when he fought Dustin Porre on short notice, as a like 19-year-old Yeah, so it's like, yeah. You may be right. Like there's actually a better chance for a finish in Charles and Armin because I don't think

Justin and Max will get a finish. I think that's going to end up being a five-round battle. Someone's going to win a decision, but you're absolutely right. So when I think about it that way, I think you might have convinced me. I think you're right because I think there's a much greater chance either Armin or Charles gets a finish than Max or Justin. That's just, I think that's going to be a five-round battle. Maybe it's an all-time classic, but yeah,

you're right like that's a good point because I don't I don't I mean Justin's been finished so it can't happen but if I'm putting money on I think it's going to be a five round war and Armin and Charles I agree with you I think there's a really good chance for a finish there so yeah I think you got me convinced I think you're right if there's a finish there because there's a lot more likelihood of that happening than I think Justin knocking out Max Holloway or

Max Holloway or Max Holloway knocking out Justin Gachie yeah and you know what's going to happen that fight is going to happen Armant Saruki and Charles Alavara, they're going to be going to war, right? Somebody's going to get finished. And as that is happening, Justin Gachie and Max Holloway are going to be on deck already. So for our fans listening, that means they're going to be in the hallway behind the curtain. They're not in the locker room watching it on a monitor anymore.

They're going to be in the hallway. Maybe there's a TV screen right there, but they're going to be hearing the crowd. They're going to be hearing the roar of the crowd, filling the energy in the air. And then they're going to be watching on the TV. They're going to say, what is happening? They're going to say, man, Charles Oliverer just choked out on the crowd. Ramon Sorruki and Orman Sorruki and just knocked out Charles Alavara. The place is going crazy. They're going to have that energy. They're going to have that knowledge as well. What now they need

to do. They need to top that. They need to go out there and put on a more spectacular show to top that because they're neck and neck right now. These two fights are fighting for the number one title, the number one contender spot. It's just going to, it's going to build for two fantastic fights where they're both trying to outdo each other. I mean, I get excited talking about this card, man. I mean, I know we made this comparison of $2.99 and $300 quite a bit. And again, this is another one where there's not really a wrong answer, but to me it's 300 without a doubt. I mean, top to bottom, the number of champions, the number of former champions. And what's at stake with these two fights that we just spoke about, not including every other amazing

fight? You just spoke about Kayla Harrison. Kayla Harrison goes out there, beats Holly home, And then Giuliana Pena goes out there and maybe gets her next fight. Like Giuliana Pena versus Kayla Harrison, are you kidding me? The trash talk, the buildup to revise that division. And when they need somebody like that in there, I mean, that's going to help have that division come back alive again. All the other fights without going over all of them. From top to bottom, there's so much storyline, so many champions where you look at 299, it was one of those, oh, this is a dope pay-per-view.

But you take Dustin Poirier off of that card versus Bin-Bin-Walson. then it's more just like it's a fight to showcase O'Malley with some other good fights in there as well. But $2.99, $300, rather, has so much at stake in every division moving forward. It's incredible. It's an unbelievable card. We could spend an hour just talking about the undercard or the early prelims. We spend an hour talking about the early prelims.

It's an incredible card. I am planning. I'll kind of go ahead now. So now I do want to plan for a big UFC 300 spectacular. So hopefully we can all reconvene here in a week and a half, two weeks and get back together. I'd love to get you and Matt Brown, all of us together to break down some fights of UFC 300 because, boy, oh, boy, is that going to be such an incredible card. And, man, it's going to be fun to watch.

Alan, before we get out of here, I want to give you a chance. Like, what do you got coming up? I know you're always a very busy guy traveling, of course, calling fights for LFA. What do you got coming up in the near future? Yeah, as you mentioned that Atlantic City car is coming up. I'm on that one. I'm looking forward to bringing my family out there. And then I'm working back to back the next weekend.

back in Vegas, the one that you mentioned as well, Chris Curtis, taking on Brandon Allen, a lot to see in that one for the middleweight division. So those are the two, man, working back to back, excited to be back. Just kind of like the UFC is always trucking along. And as you mentioned, I know this is a bit of a dip in the action when you go from $299 to $300. But we're going to stay busy. We're going to let some things work themselves out. And then it's all systems go for $300, man.

I'll be honored to be on this show. And there's so much good stuff to talk about for that card once we get into it. next couple weeks so I look forward to it man absolutely Alan it's always a pleasure to have you on the show you know we appreciate it obviously can't wait to see you doing your thing in Atlantic City and of course out in Vegas at the apex card going to be both of those cards like I said they're slipping under the radar but there are some fun fights on there so I look forward to that and then we'll gear up again and come back for you S2 300 here in a couple weeks so I appreciate the time as always thank you for doing the show and we will definitely talk soon my pleasure brother to the Vox Media

podcast network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.