MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Alan Jouban Reacts to Bad UFC Louisville Stoppage, Hopes WWE Event Changes How UFC Uses APEX

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC analyst Alan Jouban and MMA Fighting senior reporter Damon Martin discussing the latest in combat sports including the stoppage in the main event at UFC Louisville where Nassourdine Imavov defeated Jared Cannonier but not without some controversy. We’ll discuss the stoppage and if referee Jason Herzog blew it by ending the fight before Cannonier was truly done and what that does for Imavov going forward. We’ll also talk about the WWE event that took place at the UFC APEX on Sunday night with a packed house filled with fans, which is a much different look than the typical UFC cards in the same venue. Jouban explains why that event might force the UFC’s hand to make some changes moving forward with future APEX cards. We also talk about the latest with Conor McGregor after the UFC 303 press conference was cancelled at the last minute, which led to speculation that perhaps he wasn’t going to fight Michael Chandler after all. Now that it appears the fight is still happening was this all part of McGregor’s plan or could something else be happening behind the scenes? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two,

Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. Podcast Network. Back to the Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. Once again this week, as I tease last week's show, we are happy to have back as co-host this week.

The great Alan Joban. Alan, how are you? Things are good, brother. Rocking and rolling. Looking forward to going back to Vegas. This weekend, we're going to work some more fights and kind of keeping the ball rolling with everything, man. So we are back at the UFC Apex. Obviously last weekend, UFC Louisville, huge crowd.

The attendance there, the gate there broke the St. Louis record, which was just set like a month ago. So another record set for the card in terms of like, you know, LiveGate over $2.5 million. I think it was for the LiveGate. And then we are back at the UFC Apex this weekend for Alex Perez. and Tassuia Tyra. So they broke the attendance record or the gate or was it both? The gate, the gate record. They broke the gate record in Louisville.

They broke, St. Louis said it and then Louisville just broke it over the weekend. So, yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, UFC is just printing money at these live events right now. But I'm assuming this is only because the price is going up and the tickets are still getting sold, right? I mean, I think that's part of it. but I mean, I think the attendance was over 19,000. It sold out.

So it's like, I've been to a lot of fight night cars when they used to travel. And the crowds were always good, but it was never that packed. Like, you know, you would get, you know, in a 20,000-seat arena, you'd maybe get 12,000 people, 10,000 people. Not bad crowds by any stretch of the imagination, but they wouldn't sell out the big arenas for the smaller fight night cards. Now they are. I mean, I don't, there was no local talent.

Like, there was no guys from Kentucky on the card. let's be honest Jared Cannonier and Naserdine Emma of all for not the biggest stars but 19,000 plus and a $2.5 million I think it was I mean that's just the UFC is just they're showing up and backing

up the brink struck I think it shows the the want in the market right I mean people know that obviously the way that the world is right now and the way that the UFC business model is that you know we're not doing shows every weekend on the road and so

when it comes to your market, you better jump on it right away and get a ticket and get a seat because you don't know the next time they're going to be back in that area. So it's a good thing. I love that people are coming out and buying seats and breaking records. I know that Dana has said that in the long term, you know, they want to take more cards out of the UFC Apex. That's ideal. But we all, and listen, I don't fault them for holding cars at the Apex because it's, it's cross control. They have an in-house production studio. I mean, you've worked there, you know, many times. understand why they do it. I totally understand it. Versus a lot of people are just like, oh, just travel again.

Dude, I understand. Like, there's a lot of money saving to be made by just having a car at the Apex and I have to travel with the Octagon and put on the production in arenas and all those different things. But the W.W.E. held an event at the EOCEApex on Sunday night, and it was an NXT Battleground event. And they showed off in the Apex what you could do with, like, bleachers and seats. And, like, I tuned in to watch the event. And, like, I tuned in to watch the event and I looked around. I was like, hold on now. This is what an event could look like inside the apex. I was like, how do they not do this? Like, I don't understand how they're not doing this for every UFC events. This is all very positive news for for the fans, the viewers, you know,

because you look at what you just mentioned, holding a wrestling match at the apex that they did the other night. And I saw a couple of videos of it. And I was shocked as well because I think somebody posted this is how the, they might have been aerial saying like this is how the apex should look or something like that. And I was, I was like, and as you said, I'm somebody that said the apex every other weekend. I was like, this is the apex? I didn't even realize it. It looked like one of those NXT production studios they have in Florida. But it's such positive news because now, look, the UFC is not one to be done up. Our producers, Zach Candido, the best in the business. Everybody says that, like you will never find another producer as good as Zach. Dana White

does not like to be done up. He always wants his. production to be top-notch. If NXT comes in on their first show or whatever show this was, and they put on a spectacular show, look, we could get more bleachers, more seats in here, more screens, make it more lively, make it still have that kind of like intimate feeling that they kind of have right now, but with more people and energy, it's going to, I really, really think it's going to turn some heads at the UFC and they're going to say, okay, we could, we could one up, but we just got one up. Now, we could bring something more.

Also, another positive note is what you just mentioned. You look at Louisville, you look at St. Louis. If these are selling out and breaking records in attendance and gate records, this is more positive news for getting the show on the road again. I've got to say, you mentioned it earlier. People want all the shows on the road again. And I'm really not for that. I really am not because I think it's good to have some shows at the apex.

Because not all of these cards are show type cards. As you just said, Jerry Cannonier, Emovof, and some other good names on there sprinkled in there, Reyes and all that. You know what I mean? Those are pretty decent names, but that's not blowout type names, but it's still, on a positive side, it's sold out in a broker record. On the negative side, the card this weekend. Good solid fight card. But when you look at Alex Perez versus Tatsuya Taira, and then after that it kind of drops off.

And it's going to be great fights, great matchups, up-and-comers. But none of these names on this list following it are going to be for the normal fan base. They're not going to be familiar names at all. So you can't go to a 20,000-person arena and say, yeah, spend the money on these names that you don't know. we don't have locals this and that.

So I think that's why the necessity for the Apex is there to get these guys, the big show experience, give these guys their first five-rounder type fights, build some of these names at the Apex, let them get some highlight rails, get some knockout of the night bonuses. Once you become familiar with them, they've got three or four fights in the UFC, now we put them on these cards on the road that they're more kind of household names. And I think that's the process of it. I've heard fans say, very few fans, by the way.

But some of them saying, I would rather there be less shows and bigger shows on the road. And I'm against that. I'm sorry. I would rather watch fights every weekend at the apex and one show on the road every six weeks and still get my fighting. I still want to watch fighting every weekend. You know, at the end of the day, I'm still get to watch your fight. If it's the apex or not, if it's a crowd or not, I'm still getting to watch great fights.

So I think they're doing it right. But my point to this whole thing is I think we could see on the podcast. Positive side, bigger or better shows in the future at the apex because of what we just saw at the NXT that you mentioned. And also more shows on the road, not that the UFC is seeing, you know what? Even without Blockbuster type names, without these beautifully assembled cards, you could sprinkle a couple good names, one good main event, some decent co-main events, etc., etc. And the fans are still thirsty for this. They will buy the tickets if you go on the road. So it's positive news all the way around the board.

You said two things real quick, very brilliant. One, you said, obviously, like, the reason, I agree, 10%, the reason why St. Louis sold out, the reason why Louisville sold out is because the UFC hasn't been on the road. And when you start going on the road again every single weekend, those events lose that special feeling. When you're doing one every six weeks, like you just said, it feels special. It feels special right now when they go on the road. So you're in Louisville, you better go because you may not get another UFC event for a year and a half, maybe two years. That's not the case in the pre-pandemic era where they were on the road every single weekend. And some of the cars would just be like, oh, they'll be back or they'll be in a town an hour away.

I can drive there for the next one because this car doesn't really impress me or whatever the case may be. Now it feels special. Even if the car's not the greatest car in the universe, now it feels special. Oh, they're coming to Louisville. I got to go because they may not come back here for two years, three years. They may not come back for a long time. And I need to go to these shows. Two, I love what you said

I think you're absolutely right. All this talk about, look what they did. Look what WWE did there. Look at how stacked that was. Look how packed that room was. You said Dana White does not like to be shown up. I think that's the key. I think that's the key.

Dana's going to see that and see the feedback from fans. There's one thing Dana White does. He does listen to the fans. And he's going to see that. And he's going to say, you know what? W.D.E. showed me up. They went in there and packed the house.

I watched a little bit of the Avengers. I wanted to see. I wanted to see it. I wanted to see it for myself. And the crowd was loud. They were lively. It felt like an arena. Like it felt like, again, it's more closed in, more intimate.

But it was so loud in there, you know, people cheering. And that's the thing we all kind of hate about the apex is just it's so quiet. And there just doesn't feel like the energy's there. I don't know how many people were there. I mean, it was 2,000 people. I don't know. It wasn't that many. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't like 10,000 people.

2,000 people, but they made it feel like a big card. I think that's the key, though. I think you're absolutely right. Dana White's going to see people being like, dude, this is what it could look like. And he's going to be like, damn it, all right, I can't get shown up by WWE. I got to put some more seats in there. I got to sell some more tickets. And I think we might, might see a change.

I hope we do because I don't have a problem with the UFC going to the apex. I really don't. And I agree with you that they're going to still do more fights. But I think the formula right now works where you do a couple apex shows, one on the road. Couple apex shows, pay-per-view. A couple apex shows, one on the road. I think it all makes sense. So, but I love what you said.

You're absolutely right. Dana White does not like to come in second place. And right now, based on that NXT show, he's coming in second place at the apex. It's true. And like he's, he's seeing the capabilities that other people are doing, like a whole new production team. And so it's different ideas. Dana is already kind of, he's already kind of going outside the box with slap, right? Because if you go to a slap event, it's done well, man.

I mean, they have like 52 camera angles. It is ridiculous. And there's a lot of people there. I think we're going to see this in the future. I think we're going to start seeing what they just saw this past weekend with NXT and say, okay, there's more capabilities. We could put more butts in a seat, maybe even more screens and more lights and everything. And using a little bit of the stuff that they're doing with slap fighting and kind of merging them together

and making these apex shows, which are a cost effective. B, they let everybody, all the fighters fight more frequently. I mean, everybody wins from it. The only downfall was just like, oh, we missed the big crowd. Look, now that we know we could put 500,000 more people in there and make it feel bigger and bad, or still being cost-effective and still getting these new fighters that are coming to the UFC, the bigger show experience

before we thrust them into A, a pay-per-view, or B, a show on the road where no one doesn't quite know their name yet, they're going to build themselves here. I think it's a great thing that they have at Apex. I think they just have to keep stepping it up. And I think, as you just said, this is going to give them a good push in the right direction. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, to that point this past weekend at UFC Louisville, you know, the crowd showed up, lively, energetic, there early, which I love.

That's one thing about Vegas that kind of happens on pay-per-views is the crowd, like, does that classic boxing crowd thing where they show up for the main card, not necessarily the prelims, unless it's like UFC 300 where it's like you have to be there for every single fight. But Louisville showed up, massive crowd. And again, not what I would call a marquee main. event with Jared Canaanere and Naserdine and Malvol. But ultimately, I thought, you know, the fight did well. Obviously, it was great to see Dom Mareas go out there and get a big win. It was kind of, you know, we all, I love Dustin Jacoby. I use an incredibly nice guy.

But I think in the back of our heads, we're all kind of like, good for you, Dom, because he had been on such a rough run after the John Jones fight. Obviously, Roe Rosas Jr. went out there and got a big win. But we can't not talk about the main event and the stoppage Allen. And because you're a fighter, I always want to get a fighter's perspective on this. I do understand, and this is for many, many conversations with fighters are particularly doing a show of Matt Brown for several years. Fighters want to go until the absolute last possible second.

You want every opportunity to get out of there. Now, even I will bump up against that a little bit and saying, listen, there are times where, you know, fighters have to be safe from themselves. Some people's chins are just so good that you can just see them get walloped on for, you know, five minutes and it would just do, you know, potentially immeasurable damage. that being said, I do tend to lean on the side of like let it go until it's really over. Let the guy have every opportunity to get out of there. I think Jason Herzog is a great referee.

I think he's one of the top referees in the business along with like Herb Dean and Mark Goddard. Incredible referee. But Alan, he blew it on Saturday night. He did. He blew it. Yeah. I want to start off saying the same thing that you said. I think Jason Herzog, he is in my top three.

I think he's very consistent. He's very vocal. He communicates very well, which I like. He communicates with the fighters, and that's important. We're all on the same page. Just what I'm looking for. I'm going to let you know, talk back to me throughout the fight

so I can know where you're at. I did think he messed up. I do think he messed up on Saturday night. I would be curious to hear from him. If, you know, sometimes you hear this. I looked into Jerry Cannonier's eyes. His eyes were gone. They were glazed over.

They were rolling it back of the head. I talked to him. I said, Jared, show me something. Jared, show me something. He didn't show me something. That type of conversation, if I heard that from him, I would go, okay, I wasn't in there. I wasn't standing three feet from Jared. So he has a different perspective than we did.

And sometimes that does happen. I mean, we're not always right from what we see on TV from a zoomed out perspective. But in general, yes, it would stop too soon. It was stopped too early. Fighters need to be given the chance to fight out of something. And what happens is you get hit sometimes and you get buzzed. Look at boxing. I'm not trying to compare the two together, two different sports.

But can you imagine if every time a fighter got knocked down, the fight was ended? No, they get a staining eight count, 10 count. They wipe off their gloves altogether by the time they get back in the action, probably 25 seconds has gone by before they're getting punched again. And that buzz is gone. That's what happens. You get hit, boom, oh, crap. I'm kind of wobbly.

I'm kind of buzzed. I need a little time to clear my head. Even if I'm walking funny, if I'm not really, if I'm kind of stumbling, yeah, because I'm buzzed. It's literally like being buzzed and trying to walk and somebody's trying to fight you. It's difficult, but you can fight your way out of it. Guys have to be given that opportunity. Fighter safety is always important.

If I'm not defending myself, my hands are dropped down, I'm on the ground, I'm getting ground and pounded. There's no signs of me defending myself or wanting to defend myself. Save me. If I'm out, save me. If I'm too tough for my own good, as you mentioned, where I'm getting rocked, rocked, rocked, rocked. And this buzz feeling is now going on for the better half of half around, two and a half minutes. And it's now taking up substantial damage. The damage is accumulating. And we go, this guy is going to die before he gets knocked down because he just won't go down or he won't go out. Save me. Anytime it's a 25 second buzz, let these guys fight out of it, man. You've got to have that conversation. And I've been key on this. I've said this for

years. I always, always, always in the fighters meeting, we were always afforded a fighter meeting with the referee before we go out there. The referee comes in. He says, look, these are the rules. These are how I do things. Like Jason Herzl, for instance, he probably went in there and said, Listen, if you get in trouble, I'm going to say, show me something. If you give me a thumbs up, I'll let it go. If you don't answer me, I'm going to ask you again. If I ask you three times, I'm going to stop it. You had that communication.

So you know what they're looking for. They know what you're looking for. I always would tell the referee, listen, I get rocked. Happens a lot of my fights. I normally come back. Do not stop the fight unless I'm out. That's what I would like. You have to do what you have to do, but I'm telling you, I get rocked,

and this is my fighting style. So now they know what they're looking for. in the specific fighter. Not every fighter is the same, right? So having that communication is key, which I'm sure he did. I didn't see him afford, I didn't see him afford

Cannoneer the opportunity to fight out of it though. So it was an early stop. Maybe he would have ended it, maybe not. But cannonear's a guy, he's in shape. He didn't look like it was like, this wasn't, you know, these weren't the type of shots, Damon, that were like, oh my God,

is he ever going to be the same? No, they weren't those type of shots. shots. Oh my God. Is he going to, is he taking years off of his life? No, he was buzzed. He got buzzed. And 30 seconds later, he was completely coherent again. So it was early stoppage. Feel bad. It happens. It's a tough, it's a tough call to make when you, when you're in the moment. But that was one of, uh, her zogs. Um, yeah, not, not one of his best referee in that match up. And also in that, in that moment, like you got to, you know, maybe 10 more seconds. It's over and we don't have a question. Like, just let it go 10 more seconds. Maybe M.Avob just puts it on him

and it's clear that Jared's not fighting back and he's just covering up and trying to weather the damage. Yeah, you have to fight back. You have to show signs of that. You have to show that you're still coherent enough to fight back. And the weird thing was, Canada had just thrown a punch right before that. Now, was his body language great when he's kind of turning and like almost running away to get away from the damage? No, it's not a great body language, but that's also how he's getting away. He's still coherent enough to know he has to circle away and get away from him all-wob, slow it down, avoid the damage. And you just let it go 15 more seconds. Maybe him just puts it on him. And then it's clear. Then you trapped him and you know he can't escape.

And the problem is, and I don't want to begrudge, we talk about this judging all the time. Like, when judges screw up early in the card, we're like, man, hope that guy's not scoring the main card. I don't want the, I don't want the first guy of the night to get an early stoppage and the last guy. I don't, I'm not advocating for that. but this is the main event. This is a fight that has title implications potentially on the line. How do you not let this guy go on on the shield? Again, maybe he never recovers.

Maybe 10 seconds later he's just completely, and we know it where like, dude, it's over, like stop to fight. And I know it's a very thin line. And I understand referees have to walk a very thin line between early stoppage and Jesus, where you try to get this guy killed? I understand there's like a very thin line for referees. But in that instance, especially in a main event,

you've got to give it 10, 15 more seconds. Let's see what happened. Let's just let it play out. And I guarantee you Jared Cannonier would not be upset about that. I don't think anyone would really, in that moment, you know, because it wasn't like he was getting knocked down and just absolutely battered on the ground. He wasn't defending. He was still moving.

He was still coherent. He had just swung a punch like two seconds earlier. Just let it go 15 more seconds and maybe it ends naturally. We cannot let the UFC turn into the NFL, right? We cannot overly protect things. We cannot make it a completely different sport. You watch the hits and the UFC. the tackles and the sacks that were happening in NFL in the 80s and 90s,

and you look at it today and it's a completely different sport. Now they're trying to protect people. I get it. But this is combat sports. We're a different sport. That's a game. This is a fight. We're here to fight.

And we know every time we go out there, obviously, that we, the potential of getting knocked out or submitted or something could happen. But that is what people pay to see. The danger, the risk, the excitement, the adrenaline, everything that is involved with those details. If we take out the special moments of the knockout, then what are we watching? Yeah, a fight that as soon as it gets dangerous,

we take it away? No, we are paying for danger. Fighters are fighting because they're okay with facing their fears and accepting that danger, except in their fate. It's okay. If he goes 15 more seconds and Imov lands a beautiful punch and Canaaner goes down and he's knocked out,

it's okay. He's not going to be mad. Is he going to go up to Jason Hurst? as all is can and you're going to be like, dude, why didn't you stop it before I got knocked out? No, they would never say that. And not only does it not let the beauty of the sport play out, this sounds kind of selfish in a way. But for the fighter on attack, you just robbed them of a highlight reel. You just robbed them of something more, right?

Because, I mean, really, a beautiful knockout right there. And again, I'm all about safety as well because I was a fighter. That's why I stopped for my health. But when you're in there, you don't care if you get punched one or two more times unless it's a Bobby Green type incident where the fight is clearly done. The fighter is completely clearly out of it. But if you're buzz, let the fight play out. If somebody gets knocked out, that's the sport that we play. The guy got knocked out.

He has no grudges about it. And the guy that's getting the knockout, now his highlight real, his resume, everything becomes more. Now they have a way to promote this guy. They have highlights. It's like everybody kind of wins, obviously not the losing fighter, but he doesn't care if he got hit two more times. So we've got to let these sports play out. We can't start protecting, overly protecting fighters as they've done to overly protecting quarterbacks and other other sports around the world. This is combat sports.

And to your point, if this is an amateur fight, stop it early. If this is your pro debut, stop it early. If this is the UFC in a main event in a sold out arena, title implications, five-rounder? No, we go to somebody as asleep. Yeah, 100%. I like what you said about the NFL too because, listen, I'm a huge football fan.

It's pretty much the only other sport I watch besides combat sports. And, well, I agree. Like, some of the changes they made have been absolutely necessary. You can't lead like a missile with a helmet and go into another player. I understand that part of it, like, head injuries. But, yeah, like, it's almost like flag football now with something like the quarterbacks. Like they're basically like you touch the quarterback after he throws the ball for like one second. And they call, apparently,

What are we doing here? Like, I played football. You tackled. That's part of the danger you step into. Now, certainly, I understand not letting a guy get blasted after he throws the past. I understand not leading with your helmets where you're like a missile and you're basically using a weapon to knock a guy out. I get those hits. But now it's gotten so bad where it's like, am I still watching football?

Like, am I still watching tackle football right now? And the other thing, and I think this is key. You kind of mentioned it there. And I think this is what's most important. Well, not most important. Obviously, what's most important is I wish we got a better stoppage. but it's Monday morning when we're recording this. If Nassardine Imov went out there and absolutely blitzed Jerry Canninger and legitimately knocked him out, made a statement.

What would we be talking about right now? We'd be talking about, man, Evabov just made himself a contender. He just became the first person in middleweight to finish Jerry Cananer. Now we got a new player at middle. We got some new blood because we've all kind of wanted that. We had some new blood in here. And Imabov looks like he's a guy that can do that. But what are we talking about?

We're talking about the stoppage. We're not talking about it. Maob, man, here's a new star, here's a new contender. We're talking about a bad stoppage. And that's the other downside. And Maobov, and again, none of this is his fault. And that's the problem. I'm sure he would have gladly kept punching and throwing punches and kicks whatever in that moment.

But now you've robbed him of that. You've robbed him of the celebration, the enjoyment of being like, now I'm a top five guy. Now I'm coming for Strickland and Whitaker and, you know, DDP and Israel out of Sonia. Those are the guys in front of me now. That's what we should be talking about. but we're not because of a bad stoppage. And legitimately so, because that you kind of robbed Imabov of his moment.

You said it. The storyline has been changed instead of knockout. Who's next? New contender. It's was it stopped early. I saw like, do they, who I was seeing, you know, who should they fight next?

It's always like the segment on the post show after these things. And I was looking at it and it was like, who should Imovol fight next? A rematch for Kenoneer? That's what we're talking about. A rematch now. And I mean, not like it wasn't a, it was a very closely contested fight. It was a competitive fight.

You know, one guy just, you know, got caught at the end. But it shouldn't be like that. We need to let things play out. And then when the fight is obviously over, not questionably, obviously over, that's the right to end of step in. It's not an easy job to do. And I wouldn't want to do the job, but that's what these guys do for a living. Yeah.

And as you said, you step in there as fighters, you step in there knowing the risk. You're not stepping in there to say, no, no, I don't, I don't. don't understand the risk of what I'm doing. And we've accepted our fate. We've accepted the fate already. It's okay. And also to this point, it's the UFC. That's the biggest level of the sport.

I understand. Like, again, I'm not saying the regional fighters shouldn't get, you know, better treatment or whatever. But again, there's a difference between fighting in a smaller organization, amateur, whatever. And then UFC. UFC is the NFL of mixed martial arts. We don't want flag football. So, you know, like, don't make it that.

Like give these guys a chance. I'm not saying you have to let Canaaner get absolutely murdered, but let him go until we're clear he's not defending anymore or he goes down and then stop the fight. But yeah, it just, it sucks because all the way around. Now, Canaaner's got a loss on his record. Maybe he could have come back. Maybe not.

We have no idea. And as we said, the conversation today is about a bad stop. It's not about, man, look, Nazarian Imalbob is a contender. That's the conversation we want to have today. It always kind of reminds me of, listen, my second professional fight in Tashi Palace, it was my first professional pro-loss. And it was again Chitty and Jaquane.

We had fought years ago. And third round, he catches me with a liver kick and folds me. And right away, big John McCarthy steps in and stops it. And I remember afterward, first of all, I was hurt. I was hurt. I could not breathe. I thought a truck hit me.

I didn't see this kick coming. But I remember thinking, like, man, why didn't he let it play out? Like, it was a liver kick, but like I would have just, you know, I would have like toughed it out and covered. And after 30 seconds, the liver pain kind of goes away and I would have survived. But that was my second professional fight. And I was probably somewhere on the undercard.

And John did me a service there, right? He saved me. Why let a young fighter early in his career take unnecessary damage? Now, fast forward or it might even been rewind, but do you remember the fight in the UFC? What was his name? Was it hands of steel? He got hit in the liver and he was folded over. and his opponent got a little overzealous and went to attack,

boom, hit him with that overhand and knocks them out. Like, can you imagine if the fight then would have been stopped in UFC? Oh, he got hurt to the liver and the fight's done. No, like, let it play out. These guys are tougher than you know. These guys' brains will do things overcome what they're feeling in their body. I mean, they're in that. They're in their moment.

As you said, the highest level of fighting in the UFC. And when it's the most at stake in a main event or a title fight or with title implications, Got to let those play out. Absolutely. 100% agree. And yeah, like I said, I don't want to see a guy get hurt. Don't want to see a guy get injured. But you got to give a guy a chance.

And again, it's unfortunate that didn't happen. And now that's the conversation we have to have today versus what we wish we could talk about, which is man and Maubov really showed up and made a contender out of himself. So, you know, it's unfortunate. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new. turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S.

From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time.

Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun! We'll begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close to you, call 18665330 or visitcomexontera.ca.

Before we get out of here, Alan, last week we kind of opened the show talking about, you know, we were trying to talk about the fallout from UFC 302, and of course we ended up talking about that. But at the time, we were so hours removed from the whole UFC 303 press conference cancellation, all of us sitting on our hands and knees being like, please let this fight happen. Please, what's going on? Why are we hearing all this weird stuff? And in this last week, I'm not saying we got reassurances, but I will say that I've talked to people, sources, I'll say anonymous sources, people close to the camps, the fighters, not. the UFC, but I've been assured that everyone's very confident this fight is moving forward. You had far more confidence

than I did last week. I got kind of worried and was like, oh man, here we go, but you said you actually said, I think it's okay, I think we're going to move forward. And, you know, Conner's released training footage. Chandler is saying, you know, I believe the fight's moving forward. By all accounts, it looks like this fight is moving forward. And maybe I hinted

at this when I first heard about the cancellation of the press comments. I had heard rumors that maybe it wasn't an injury or anything like that. rumors that maybe it was Conner's in the throes of contract negotiations right now. He has two fights left on his deal. He's openly said he wants to fight three times this year. He wants to get extended.

The UFC wants to extend him. But, you know, maybe that was a negotiating tactic saying, hey, I'm not going to do his press coverage. You guys need to get this, you know, this, I want to get this, I want to get this new deal done before I start promoting everything like that. And Connor, obviously, is the ultimate promoter. Whatever the case may be, it kind of looks like now a little bit of a bunch of do about nothing. But in a weird way, I know I'm saying this now, because last week I was kind of

hitting the panic button, but I think you understand where we're going with this, Alan. This is Connor McGregor. This is what we sign up for for a Conner McGregor fight. Sometimes you'll get a guy throwing a dolly at a bus. Sometimes you'll get a guy saying crazy things in a press conference. Sometimes, and this is not the first time, by the way, that he's canceled a press conference. Remember, he didn't want to do press ahead of UFC 200. They pull him off the card. It's all crazy, wild madness. Everyone's like, oh my God, they pulled Connor. They rebooked him a month and a half later. He fought an AD as the

UFC 202 in August instead. This is Connor. This is what we sign up for for a Connor fight and really I think we're kind of getting it. It's his Connor, right? You never know what to expect. And any hint, any news that he gives us

we're scrambling, right? We're all over it. Oh my God, what does this mean? Connor's saying this. It's all these subtle hints. As you said, it looks like it is going to be happening. It was confusing. Like that picture that Connor posted where he was, look at like he was at the doctor's office or something. And then in the background,

it was like a hip doctor. There was like things, like, you know, a little toy things of hips and something. So I don't know what was happening. But I agree. When you said the, what did you say?

You said the, oh, about a contract negotiation. I go back to what, said he said uh you know when he wrote that apology letter he said you know to the fans you know it's unfortunate but this is something that was just out of my control out of control um and so that kind of does make me think that he can easily just blame it on the contract stuff because this is when his lawyers his managers all them his team come around and say listen there's a bunch of money at play right now the ufc is trying to get leverage right now for this new broadcasting deal

ESPN deal is up in January. They're going to be negotiating. They need you right now, Connor. They need to go to the negotiation table saying Connor McGregor is back and he's coming off of a win over Michael Chandler. Everything's at stake right now. It's in play. But X, Y, and Z is not done yet.

We have not figured this out. We have not figured everything else out moving forward into the end of the year, fourth quarter or early into 2025. We can't proceed unless we get X, Y, and Z done, man. So I'm sorry, but we can't do this. And that's when Connor's probably saying, This is out of my control, man, because it becomes a business thing, right? He doesn't, it kind of takes the weight off of his shoulders.

His lawyers are saying, look, blame it on us. Blame it on us. There's nothing to do with you, man. So I feel like that's what it could be as well. And I haven't heard any rumblings or rumors. It just kind of feels that way as well. The other last thing I want to talk about this on that, Damon, the one thing I wonder, we all got kind of reassured with Connor showing all this

training footage, and man, he looks sharp. I just, I, I, I'm not certain it's all new footage. That's the only thing that I wonder, you know, like he could have easily taken, that it could be easily footage from two weeks ago or a couple of days before or something. You know, I don't necessarily, I'm not, I'm just saying, I'm not necessarily certain

that since he released that statement that, the UFC did, rather, that they're not having the press conference and everything's up in the air, that this is now two or three days later, Connor looking excellent and healthy. Like, I don't know that that's a fact yet. He could have just been posting old footage.

It could be dealing with some type of injury. It could be the lawyer thing. We don't all know. But the narrative is out there that if he put it out there, the narrative is out there that he's firing all cylinders. He wants the world to see that. The narrative is out there with Michael Chandler. He is like a dog, a caged up animal, ready to get this fight.

We haven't heard anything else. Oddly enough, we think by this time we would have heard something. nothing's been said. It seems like all systems go. And as I said, this is what we sign up for, for better or worse, like for Connor.

You know what I mean? When Connor fights, this is the kind of insanity we get. And listen. And we foam at the mouth for it. We're like, oh, yeah, give me more of this.

Yeah, I joked, I joked, they were talking about, you know, I care with the, all the, there was an incident.

What was? I can't remember what it was. Something happened. Oh, the, I think it was the Rojas thing with like his opponent coming out and, you know,

screwing F you at the beginning of the fight. I care what it was. Some incident happened. And they're like, oh, no, no, that's what it was. It was that new documentary on Roku, the UFC, the Fight Inc. And it was the footage of Marab de Wileshveili, stealing Sean of Miles Jackal. He handed him to Jacket by accident and Brad putting it on, jumping on the cage, and almost caused the fight in the octagon. And afterwards, Hunter Campbell was backstage saying, dude, like, you got to calm down.

Don't do this. I don't want you getting trouble. And everyone's like, and they're like, why are you trying to talk him down? I jokingly said to someone on Twitter, I said, This is part of the UFC's bylaws, you know, act outrage, get upset in the moment, you know, admonish the person who did it, and then use all that footage to sell the fight. I think it's called the Connor McGregor bus law, I jokingly said, because at the time, Dana's like, this is the worst incident in UFC history. I can't believe this happened. Apologies across the board.

And then when the Kibh fight got booked, what do we see? Dolly, crash it into the bus. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying this is this is our sport and this is the Connor McGregor show for better or worse this is why Connor McGregor part of the reason at least why he is such a massive

massive superstar. A you don't know what you're going to get in terms of like outside he may be like the first the rematch with Porreier nice complimentary you know it's gonna be a good fight you know just it was like weird like they're like so

friendly and they were like almost like buddy buddy then he lost and he comes back now I'm not listen I'm certainly not advocating for him to bringing up Dustin's wife and all that. I thought that went way too far. But then he goes to the extreme the other way. Then he's like, your wife's to my DMs, this, blah, blah, blah, firing up. This is Connor.

This is Connor. And so at the time I hit the panic buttons, I'm like, this is in Ireland. Like, this is backyard. Like, this is a great moment for Connor to just soak it all in with his fans. But then I started thinking about it. When somebody said the contract thing to me, I was like, you know what? Like, Connor's not a stupid guy. Connor's a smart businessman.

You can say a lot of things about Connor McGregor. is he the same guy now that he was in 2016 when he knocked out of the Alvarez is he all these different things I get it and I agree but Connor's not stupid and in a weird way I know this sounds bizarre saying is in a weird way Connor may have Connor may have gotten more buzz by not doing the press conference than if there actually was a press conference and it was just normal like I'm gonna smoke you I'm gonna sleep you you're a punk whatever trash talk would have gone on and it would have been cool but it would have died down two days later because we would have shift you the gears back in the XUFC fight. We're a week later. We're still talking about it. And guess what? We're still going to be talking about it until Connor McGregor flies out and we see him show up to fight week.

Maybe this is the method behind the madness. Like this is Connor. He's like, you know what? You didn't give me what I wanted. The contract's not done. Let's just not do this press conference. Everyone's buzzing. Everyone's talking week later.

We're still talking about it. Would we still be talking about that press conference a week later? I'm just saying, I'm not trying to play conspiracy theorists here, but I'm just saying, like we're still talking about it. I doubt we'd be doing that if that pressor happened last Monday. I'm going to be very curious if this new fight ink show that they're kind of unveiling all the behind the scenes drama that happens. If this Connor thing is a part of it in the future. You know, I mean, this is now we're talking.

We're not just talking drama. We're talking if it is what we're kind of hinting that we think it is, maybe contractual stuff. Conner's a smart man. He's a businessman. He's trying to get his hands in as deep as he can in the pockets with this new, uh, renegotiation coming up. It'll be very interesting to see if that's a part of this show. Can you imagine the conversation with Hunter and Dana walk up and they go,

the press conference is not happening? Dana, can you call Dana to get off the private jet that he's about to take off on right now? It's not happening. What the fuck? What do you mean? It's not happening. Connor said he can't do it.

And like, oh my God, I would love to watch all that kind of stuff. That would be tremendous TV. I just don't know how willing the UFC would be to show that type of stuff. when we're talking about money, contracts, negotiations. That gets a little personal right there. Well, we'd love, listen, we all know the magnitude of what this fight means for Connor.

I mean, in a lot of ways, I've said this very openly. I think this is kind of do-or-die-for-conor because as big of the stars you are, at some point you have to win. I don't care who you are. You know what I mean? Like, Manny Pachia was one of the biggest boxers in the world. He got a couple losses in there, got a little older. He stopped being Manny Pachia.

He stopped being the guy that would just show up and fight and we'd all tune in the watch. that means a lesser star. I'm just saying like that's the nature of the beast. When you're in a sport, winning is what matters. You have to win. You can be the greatest. I argue with people all the time when they talk to me. Listen, I don't want to listen to a football conversation,

but they're like trying to compare Justin Herbert to my guy, Joe Burrow, for the Bengals. And I'm like, listen, Justin Herbert's an incredible player. He's 30 and 32 is a pro, and he's had one playoff game and he lost. Joe Burrow took the Bengals from obscurity into a Super Bowl in his second year. And he took him to the AFC championship to the second year. Winning matters. I understand the stats are there and he's got a rocket arm, all those kind of things. But stats matter and wins matter.

Joe Burrough has accomplished war. And I said that's why I put him ahead of a guy like Justin Herbert. Connor McGregor is a massive superstar. No one's going to deny that. But at some point you have to win. You can't just go on a nine-fight losing streak and expect people to still say, well, I'm going to shell out $80 to watch or I'm going to pay thousands of dollars for tickets. So on the fight side, this could be do or die for Connor.

But again, as I said, Conner's a smart businessman. And if Connor's into throws and negotiations with the UFC knowing that maybe in the back of his head, he's like, you know what, maybe I do have four fights left. I want to cash in on these last four fights. I want you to pay me for those last four fights. Whatever the case may be, again, that's what we get with Connor. And so, you know, I don't think Connor's taking any less seriously. I honestly, I don't buy the whole. He's out partying and doing stupid stuff right now.

And even if he is, listen, I'm not saying it's right, but I mean, you know, John Jones, who is the greatest of all time, we don't know the story with him doing a little bit of a little bit. doing a little snow plowing before the Daniel Cormier fight and still went out there and put on a masterful performance. So this is the Connor show. This is what we sign up for. Good or bad. This is the Connor McGregor show for the next three weeks until we get to UFC 303.

This is every, and like I said, the brilliance of me thinking about this, every time Connor posts right now, we're going to be watching. Is he training? Is he serious? Is he in fight mode? What's going on? All he's really doing, Alan, let's be honest. All he's really doing right now, for good or bad, is getting more people interested in that pay-per-view.

Conner's comeback. Is he taking it serious? Is he really back? Is he looking good? Is he the same guy he once was? Blah, blah, blah. Because you and I know Michael Chandler. I've known Michael Chandler since basically the debut he had Bellator.

He's not that guy. He's not going to engage with him in like ugly trash talk. He's not even going to get like Kabib-level trash talk. He's not going to get fired up like Pori. Chandler just kind of rolls to the punches. Maybe Connor sees that. and says, you know what? Chandler's not going to give me what I want at that press conference.

So let me just cancel it. Get everyone freaked out. Get everyone talking. Now that buzz is going to extend all the way to three. I'm just saying, like, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. This is all the methods of the madness of being Connor McGregor. He's masterful at it, Connor is, right? And it's hard not to, you know, like when you watch the altercations between them two

or just the back and forth with Chandler and Connor, you can see that Michael Chandler is completely content with being the B-side, right? But how do you not? Everybody is. They're like, okay, I'm getting the biggest payday of my life, and you've got a guy, a personality that is so strong, how do I compete like that without trying to be outside of my normal self, which a lot of fighters just want to be who they are? Conner's personality is so strong.

He plays these games with you. And you know, like, Conner's, ah, it's going to be 185, 170, this and that. I'm going to cancel it. You're the B-side. You have to just roll with the punches, like he said. because it doesn't matter. You're like, as long as I'm training, I'm getting paid. I'm getting paid for all these appearance fees.

I'm getting paid for all these press conferences and everything that I'm doing. I'm going to get a massive payday come fight day, and I'm going to get pay-per-view points on the biggest card that everybody is talking about for years. All good. Let Connor play his mind games. Chandler's a guy that I think stays very focused. I think he's pretty mentally sound. I don't think it's going to get to him too much.

But Connor needs that, right? He likes to feel like the big dog, the A-side, the dictator of the fight. and that's what gets him up in the morning. That's what makes him puff out his chest. If he doesn't have those things, he doesn't feel like he's wearing a $50,000 suit. You know what I mean? He likes that feeling,

and that's what gives him his confidence and allows him to perform with the swagger that we all love to watch, man. It's part of the kind of show, as you said. And guess what? We are still like three weeks out. We have an incredible card coming out. Obviously, we get the apex this weekend.

Next week, we're in Saudi Arabia. Hamzaa Tchamai and Robert Whitaker is a freaking bang. excited for this car, dude. That card is incredible, but every conversation between now and then we're still going to inject Connor in there, because we're all on that mode now where Connor's actually got a date, a location, an opponent, we're getting

closer and closer, and this little conversation we're having right now, this is what it's all about. This is what we're all, listen. I'm super excited. I think Alex Perez and Tatsuya Tire is actually a really fun fight. I think Tyra may be, you know, I think a lot of, there's been so much buzz around Muhammad McKayev and rightfully so, but I think Tyra might be

the guy you want to really pay attention to, like, as far as up-encumbers in that division. He could be the next guy. And Perez, we just saw what he did, Mattias Nicolao. That guy still got power, nasty power. That's a really fun fight. But, and next weekend, like I said, Hamzot and Robert Whitaker and all these other guys,

Sergey Pavlovich coming back, all these different things. We're all leaning towards the UFC 20303. We're all leaning towards Connor McGregor's comeback. Even that. Ian Machado Gary is taking on Michael Vennon and Page. Carlos Olberg, huge chance against Jamal Hill. We're all talking about Connor. This is the Connor McGregor show,

and this is what we're getting. So yeah, I think that's where we're at. Alan, I know you are, you are going to be in Vegas this weekend for the, for the Apex car, correct? Yeah, working this one this weekend and then taking off to L.A. for a week, see some old friends, but I'll be there, man. I'll be working the fights. Yeah, I was joking with somebody over the weekend.

I said that these Apex cards, listen, I understand this car's not the stacked, it's not stacked, it's not. But sometimes these are the cards where you're just like, well, this isn't great. And that's where we get six main card knockouts or six main card finishes. where guys are just going out there showing out like, oh, you don't think we're ready for this moment, we're in this moment, let's go out there and show out. So sometimes these shows end up being a lot of fun when they don't have the name power. So Apiscard this weekend, Saudi Arabia, and then roll right into O.C.303.

This is going to be a busy month, Alan. Busy month with a fantastic ending, man. Absolutely. Well, Alan, appreciate you jumping on and doing the podcast with us these last couple weeks while Matt Brown was out hunting bears. Obviously. Amazing. Yeah, so obviously we always love having you on. We got big pay-per-views coming up.

I'm sure we'll get you on again, either pre or post. I always love doing event breakdowns with you. Obviously, we got, you know, Conner's big fight. And in July, we have an incredible card with Leon Edwards and Malah, Muhammad. Of course, Tom Aspinall, Curtis Blade. So anywhere else, anywhere else people can check you out, what else you got going on right now? We all kind of focus on the Apics this weekend. Yeah, I'm not thinking too far ahead, man.

The apex this weekend, man. I'm taking a little vacay and they've got some more coming up after that. But we'll get through this weekend, man, and they go. from there. Absolutely. Well, I want to say a big thank you as always to everyone that tunes into the show. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website

in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Alan Joband, I am Damon. Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. With Instacart, you get groceries that over-deliver so you can over-share your preferences. Want russet

potatoes with no brown spots? You got it. Want turnips that look light but feel heavy, easy. Want honey crisp apples that are firm green and definitely not Macintosh like last year when you lost the fall bake off to perfect Penelope Johnson? Okay, a bit TMI, but we're here for it. So download the app today and get

zero delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacard, groceries that over deliver. Service fees exclusions and terms apply.