MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Alan Jouban Reacts to Dustin Poirier’s Retirement and What’s Next for Max Holloway

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Alan Jouban joins Damon Martin to discuss Dustin Poirier’s retirement this past weekend at UFC 318 and his performance against Max Holloway. We��ll also discuss what comes next for Holloway and if a rematch against new lightweight champion Ilia Topuria goes any different at 155 pounds? All that and much more! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin, and we are coming off a weekend where a UFC legend retired, Dustin Poria's final fight with Max Hollow at UFC 318.

And I could not imagine having a better co-host today than a man who is not only at the fight, he's from Louisiana. It's like the perfect setup for him to be on the show today. It is always my great pleasure to welcome in. Alan Joban. Alan, how are you? I'm good, brother. Just got back from New Orleans last night.

I barely got out of bed, made it to the gym this morning, but I'm trying to get back on track. I eat all I ate today was an avocado with some honey in it because I'm trying to, you go to New Orleans, it's like, it's bignets, it's fries food, it's oysters, it's this, it's that. It's amazing. But then you're like, all right, I got to like get back to my normal routine. I go to the beach next week. I got to go walk around in a swimsuit. So I'm trying to get healthy and kind of get back in routine right now.

Yeah, New Orleans is amazing. I love that city. I was bummed. I couldn't be down to this weekend, but what an incredible atmosphere was. It's so rare that the UFC can do a card not built around a title fight. And I know technically it was a title fight, but let's be honest, the BMF title's not the same. This was a rare occasion where you can headline a major pay-per-view,

and it felt like a major show because it was Dustin's final fight. I mean, not only felt like a pay-per-view or a huge fight, but I talked to DC after, and he echoed the same remarks that I had, that this might be my favorite fight week I've ever been associated with, ever. Being a fighter, being an analyst, been on some big pay-per-views or part of it somehow. I don't know. There was something about this one, and I can't quite decipher if it's because there was such an attachment to me being that Dustin's a buddy of mine. I'm from Louisiana.

It was in New Orleans for the first time in 10 years. Or it was also just like, it was such a beautiful farewell. And the thing that I love about fighting that from the production side is when they're storytelling and you do all these type of packages. And there were so many beautiful stories told throughout the week. I mean, I don't know about you, Damon, but when somewhere around the prelim to the main of the main card, they played that package of Dustin sitting in a chair with those surrounded by big screens and his daughter and his wife and his mother were telling him how proud he was. And you could see Dustin just fighting for his life right there and not to cry. And I'm sitting at the desk in the arena, but it's like in the open.

Like we're surrounded by fans. And I remember thinking, like my eyes were kind of like welling up with the water. And I remember thinking like, are people staring at me right now? Am I crying? Am I not crying? What's going on? But I just, I couldn't help it. It was such a beautiful moment that they captured.

And then like that opening with trombone Shorty. on Bourbon Street playing House of the Rising Sun and the storytelling. It was, oh, man, it was amazing. It was my favorite fight week I've ever been a part of. I loved it. Yeah, that scene, I posted on Twitter that night, and I put up like a gif of, like, crying. So it was like, what an emotional tribute.

It was amazing. And, you know, like, I think, you know, when these moments happen, they're so rare and few of heart between when you get a chance to really celebrate a guy at the end of his career like this. But I was glad Dustin got that because, we can talk all day about like Dustin never won an undisputed title and I compare it, I said this last week on the podcast

I compare it to like Charles Barkley never winning an NBA championship. He just existed during a time when Michael Jordan was the greatest ever and Dustin unfortunately existed during a time when Kabib and Islam existed. Like that's just the nature of the beast. But no one does it like you cannot love

the career that Dustin Pore has put together and it was just such a cool like commend the UFC. Commend the UFC huge. They literally dedicate the entire car, built it around him and did that. Because not everyone's going to get that. Not everyone had deserved that.

And I was just like, man, what a, what an emotional, like just a crazy emotional week. And then the fight night and the prelim started and you had so many crazy finishes and the energy and the crowd was insane. But I just loved they did that for him because, a most guys don't get like a quote-unquote retirement fight, but also to build a,

entire event around him in New Orleans. It was just cool. I want to come into EOC. I don't know how it all came together with Hunter and Dana and the guys at TKO, but they deserve a lot of credit for doing what they did on Saturday and throughout the entire fight week, really. Yeah. And I think a lot of people echo that they realize Dustin never had the undisputed championship

belt. But when you really sit back and look at it, right, he had the interim belt. And what was going on at that time? He fought Max Holloway. in Atlanta, Georgia, because what was going on? Habib took time off, right, after the incident. And so rather than stripping Habib, which with all respect to him, they should have.

The guy didn't defend his belt for over a year or something. It should have been an understreeted belt on the line. So him and Israel out of Sonia both kind of had that same remark about it, that that was for the real belt that night. But you push that aside. And this is a sport of just timing and circumstances. He had the interim belt. He lost to a couple.

people but look at it look in my mind he's kind of the undisputed not the undisputed the the the um the uncrowned bmf champion because look who he has wins over he has two wins over max holloway he has wins over justin gaitchie he has wins over michael chanler like that was the violent triangle at one point that was the most violent bmf type guys in ufc and dustin and connor connor too connor too who wins over connor the first guy to knock connor out uh t k odom then injury, but two wins over Connor McGregor. Then, you know, you start looking at other possible BMF type guys, the Dan Hooker fight that in COVID, one of my favorite violent fights of all time.

He has wins over so many guys, but it wasn't, the circumstances weren't for the BMF at the time, right? Two wins over Max Holloway, but the third one when he was 36 years old, when it was, the belt was for the line. You look at all the former champions that he had beat the Anthony Pettas, the Cona McGregors, Eddie Alvarez. He beat all these guys that were champions, but at the time that he fought him, he didn't have the belt.

And so a lot of the bigger fights that he got were later in his career. And I'm not going to say that he wasn't in his prime during some of those. I mean, he just had to go against Abe, who was a legend. He had to go against Islam. But he beat the best guys in the world. And when he got some of the biggest opportunities for more of these title opportunities, he was a little bit later in his career. And so it's just unfortunate.

But that's why I look at it. I'm going to say with respect to all these other guys, he's really the uncrowned BMF in my mind because he's the one that has more wins over all of these tough guys than anyone. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Like they did it as a special thing for Mazfodon Diaz, but if there was a real BMF title throughout history, like just the baddest mofo in the sport,

how does Dustin Porre not sit like at the top of that list? And to your point to that, Damon, look at strength of schedule. Strength of schedule, I've always said this. Dustin Porier is at the top of the heat. Aside from John Jones, because he's just the best and he's beaten all the champions, Dustin Porier is number two on my list of Strength of Schedule, the toughest fights in the UFC.

The 155-pound division has always reigned supreme, and they've always had the biggest stars. The BMF lies there as well, the toughest fighters, the most competitive vision with the most fighters in the stable. And he has ran through all the toughest guys since he's been in the UFC for 15 years. his strength of schedule alone warrants it.

Like, I mean, he, the other guy on that list would be like an RDA. Hafieldo Zanos, he fought the toughest guys in two-way classes, 70 and 55, but Dustin Poirier, shrink the schedule. It's like none other. Yeah, it's unreal. I mean, it's absolutely unreal when you look at the list. And the crazy thing is most of them are wins, right? Like, there's only a couple losses in there.

Like, again, you take it like, okay, yeah, you lost to Kibibh. You lost to Islam very late on in your career. But the guy just, I mean, he just, he doesn't lose often. Like when you look at his record, it's ridiculous. And I think people forget, like, he had a pretty good run at featherweight, too. Like, he had a good run of featherweight before he decided to change weight classes. I think people almost forget that because, like, WEC coming into UFC, but he had a great run of featherweight, too. Didn't make it didn't reinvent himself as a lightweight and then just puts on, I mean, name one non-intertaining dust of poria fight.

You can't do it. Can't do it. When loser drawled, the guy was always entertaining. And I remember my favorite, I didn't bring this up during fight week, because I was. I never want to kind of bring up a down note. But my favorite Dustin Porier moment that I was ever around was when he fought the Korean zombie in Virginia in a main event, I think it was on Fuel TV,

and I was at that event. And we were at the Post-Fight Press conference, and I'm asking Dustin's questions, and Dustin's tearing up crying, talking because it was a tough loss. And I was like, you never understood more in a moment of how much fighting means to a guy than what it meant to Dustin in that moment. He was brokenhearted, losing to the Korean zombie.

And I just remember him being so real in that moment. Like, you know, you just, I felt the impact being in that front row asking him questions that night of just seeing that emotion on his face and like how much it meant to him. And it was a loss. But like, I was like, man, I've never seen it more real than in this moment of seeing Dust of Porreier talk about like losing a fight and facing it head on in that moment. Just so much respect for him. And true legend of the sport, Hall of Fame. I've argued for years. I said, I know, like, we just had the Hall of Fame ceremony.

I think it was, I care who it was when retired. Maybe it was Bispying or maybe I care who it was. Somebody retired is like, they just need to have like a special induction. Like a guy retired, he just immediately put him in the Hall of Fame. Like, Dustin feels like one of those guys. Like you just have it, like the next Vegas event, you just have an extra Hall of Fame induction is Dustin Porte. Yeah, it should be immediate Hall of Fame.

Not only Hall of Fame career, but Hall of Fame fight, I think, versus Dan Hook. You could take a lot of his fights that were. fight of the year, fight of the year candidates, but that Dan Hooker fight is just something different about it, the violence of it and the sound of the violence that you were able to kind of interpret that night because there was no crowd there. It's, I think he goes into the Hall of Fame twice for that fight and for just his impeccable career. But I like that you brought out like that presser after against the Korean zombie because I think that's kind of, it's part of the mystique of Dustin. It's hard to explain because if somebody asked

me like who is dust and porreier from from how i know him i would really say he's like a lone wolf you know he's not the type of guy that's going to be calling hey do you see this he want to do this want to grab like he's not that guy he's a lone wolf right but he's a guy that we get together with our families we get together when we're going to go punch each other in the face and train and things like that and he stays very focused on what's important to him and it's family and his career right and he doesn't let any obstacles get in the way and i i love you that about him because I think a lot of us have that similar mindset. But so somebody that could be kind of a lone wolf and somewhat so guarded to also be

someone who lets you in so deeply in these vulnerable situations like losses and talking about family or emotions after a win. I think that's the mystique that fans gravitate to. Yeah, he's a freaking gun slinger in there. but when you see a guy who's one of the baddest dudes on earth and you see him tearing up talking about what it meant for his daughter to draw this picture and say, Daddy, I want you to win.

It's so relatable. And you see a guy that's tough as nails, let down his guard for us. There's no way you can't jump on board with that and want to be a supporter of him. 100%. Let me ask you this out. This is something that came up.

We were talking. I think this is going back when Anthony Smith retired. another guy that I just have a tremendous amount of respect for and we were actually texting before this fight because I know he was going to be doing some work down there to analyst work as well and when he was retiring Matt Brown who I normally do the podcast with it brought this up

I never really thought about this way because when Matt retired he had to fight with Cort McGee he knocked him out and then he just when he got his neck off from the UFC he's like you know what I don't feel that same energy I didn't get excited the way I normally do and he's like I knew it was time to retire And he just, you know, he walked away.

Now, he gets to walk away on a win because he didn't know he was going to be retiring at that point. But he brought him a good point to me, and he said, I don't love it when guys do retirement fights because it kind of feels like a little bit you already have one foot out the door. You're celebrating. You know you're walking away. And you kind of, but then we talked about Dustin. He's like, I think Dustin's the exception. He's like, Dustin just doesn't strike me as a guy that's going to have one foot out the door. But I said this on Saturday night to some friends.

We were talking about the fights. and when they played that dramatic package you were talking about, which was incredibly beautiful. I was like, man, it breaks my heart because it feels like we know the next chapter, which is losing the Max Holloway. Because it just, we so rarely have a guy go out in a retirement fight. And, I mean, we all remember the scene, whatever was last year with Michelle Watersome, kind of heartbreaking, right?

She has that fight. They play her the package, all beautiful, but she had a loss. I always remember Robbie Lawler, right? Robbie Lawler is always the one. He had his retirement fight. He goes there, knocks out. Nico Price and it's a really cool moment. But you can count on one hand

the amount of guys or girls who said I'm retiring and then the fight ends well for them. Is that just the nature of the beast? Because this isn't like someone brought this up to me on Saturday. It's like pro wrestling and pro wrestling when a guy is going out

he loses quote unquote to the other guy to kind of put him over and kind of pass the torch. But that's no offense to pro wrestling and I like pro wrestling but it's scripted. You're not actually losing. In fighting, You're talking brain damage, permanent, you're risking permanent injury.

But we know this story, Al, and you know as well as I do. When guys say I'm retiring and they had that retirement fight, nine times out of 10, it doesn't go their way. I don't know how you feel about that with Max because, like, Dustin has two wins over Max. But then Saturday night, it did feel like a totally different fight. Completely different. You know, Chale Sunnan brought up something the other day. Like, not only did Dustin Porreier beat Max twice, he beat Max twice. he beat him seven rounds in a row, right?

Max Holloway never won a single round against Dustin Poorie. He finished him with the submission in the first fight. He beat him in the second fight in a very competitive fight, but Dustin was just a step ahead. And then in this fight, it was Max that was just a step ahead. He looked like the younger guy. For me, if I had to say one thing that stood out, the X factor in the fight, it was just a speed advantage.

Max was that young guy that was just, pop pop pop pop pop pop that's why he's the most significant strikes leader in all of the UFC he could keep that type of pace and i don't like think dustin looks slow it just looked like max was faster and and that's what it is and you talk about having that retirement fight a lot of times it doesn't end well and i would just attribute it to this if somebody knows that they're retiring they've set it in stone and and this is this is it i'm at the end of my road this is my last fight i'm not doing this anymore They've already not only thought about the future, but there's a reason that this is their last fight. They know that they probably don't have that much longer.

They may be starting to slow down, but it's not really obvious to the naked eye right now, but there's certain things that I recover. For whatever reason, that fighter made the conscious decision to say, this is it. There's reasons behind it. They don't have to tell us why, and we don't want to assume, oh, is he getting old? Does he look slower? but there's a reason behind it. And so a lot of times it doesn't go there away

because of those reasonings that they're not telling us, right? And so it's the nature of the beast. It's unfortunate for Dustin that he didn't get, you know, the fairy tale type of ending. But it was an interesting one for me to digest, man. Like the fight ended and I'll be honest, I was somber. I was like thinking to myself, I don't know how I'm going to go on the air right now

and keep this upbeat and professional without being completely honest. And the thing that changed me, you know what it was? It was the respect amongst the two guys in the middle of the cage. And then Max Holloway getting interviewed on the post-fight set. And when Max got up there,

he was just so gracious. He was so good, man. Like the way that he, I'm out. This is about DP. Thank you guys. I love you, Louise. Louisiana and he gave the he gave the Florida Dustin that right there was like wow okay that was beautiful and then he goes and sits down at the set with shell sun and everyone and he's just such a likable guy

and he's just like you know like man that dude's tough that you know like it was so it was like it couldn't have happened to a better person if dustin would have went out there and lost against someone else it might have been even tougher of a pill to swallow but him and max have such a mutual respect and match Max is such a legend in his own right and such a fan favorite already that it made sense. It made it a lot easier for a lot of people that were rooting heavily for Dustin to drive home that night to Louisiana or go back to the hotel room and go, that was still the most amazing. I can't tell you how many people texting me that. And they go, that was the most amazing experience of my life.

People are telling me that. This is the most amazing experience of my life. and their hero just lost. But it didn't affect the beauty of everything that happened that week. And that's why I keep saying it was such a special fight week, the way that everyone came together and just paid tribute to Dustin. I think also, I think the nature of the fight, like, because when, like, it was almost like worst nightmare at the beginning

when Max knocked him down and had him down on the ground punch. I was like, this is like worst case scenario. Because if he would have gotten a finish right there, like I think our perspective would change a little bit, right? because, and I thought, I thought it was over in that moment. Like when he got knocked down and he had his arm trapped and he's punching him, I'm like, oh, it's done in that moment. And that gives you a different perspective of how you're going to remember Dustin.

If you're like, oh, man, his last fight he goes out and gets knocked out in the first round. Because we always remember, I always remember Shogun losing to Ehor Potaria. And I'm like, he got bludgeoned by E, and it's tough because you think of Shogun, the legendary fights, the legendary champion. And no offense to Ehor, I'm not trying to knock. It wasn't a legendary opponent. No, not at all. And that's not the lasting memory I wanted Mauricio Shogun Huah.

Now, granted, Max Holloway is a legend. He's a future Hall of Fame in his own right. So losing him, there's no shame in losing to Max Holloway. But still, how you lose matters, right? Like, you don't want to go out there and get knocked out in the first round. And so when that happened in that first sequence, I was like, oh, my God, this is the nightmare scenario for Dustin to have his final fight go out like this. He didn't. He showed his signature toughness.

He comes back. He knocks down Max. ends up being another five-round well which by the way I love Marvin Vittori and Brendan Allen I love Kevin Holland Daniel Rodriguez how in the world Max and Dustin didn't get fight at the night or like a double fight at the night or something like what are we doing here but anyways I think it matters how the fight played out because if that fight

had ended in the first round I think we would be having a different conversation like we're happy for Dustin but it was time like it was probably time to walk away we're not really having that conversation now because it ended up playing out as a classic Dustin Porrey fight. He lost. I definitely scored Max winning that fight. There's no doubt in my mind Max Hollow will win that fight. But it was still a classic, just absolute brawl.

And Dustin coming back and knocking down Max in the second after he was almost finished. And it ended up being like even though he lost, it doesn't feel like a loss because it was such an all-time classic. He's going out the way that he came in, giving us a classic Dustin Porier fight. Well, that's what I mean. Like, it was tough to see him not get that moment and win and have that belt. You know, he wanted that belt on his mantle so bad, man. And like, you know, the BMF belt, you know, some people take it seriously, some don't.

But you know what I know is fighters do. Fighters, when they feel that they get recognized as the BMF guy, it means something. Because you know what it is? It's like, it's like your peers recognize. you. Like, we're all a bunch of fighters and we're all chasing the same dream, but there's a couple of us that are just some bad motherfuckers. And we all know it. We all know who we are, right? And that's, that's recognition of it. You had that BMF belt on your mantle. It means something that you set yourself apart from the other guys for certain reasons, because not only are we

here to fight and to win, but to entertain. And if you have that BMF, you're all three of those and you stand out your style you do something different you go to the jiu jitzy mat there's guys that are good and decent and then there's some guys that this guy is just nasty and that's what the bmf is this guy is just nasty in that octagon he's going to sit there and point at the octagon he's going to get knocked down he's going to be bloody but he's always going to push forward he's always going to have the crowd on his feet and for dust and poriate to have his entire career bmf type of bouts and even though in a loss his final fight was still that BMF type of courage to get knocked down, to come back to almost have Max

finish in a second round, to get dropped a couple more times than the fight, but to still battle to the bell. And I mean, what did we want out of this fight? We wanted a war. We got a war. We wanted back and forth. We got that. We wanted Dustin to maybe even jump the gilly. I mean, it was a little bit of a out of left field. It could have been risky, but he jumped the gilly. And we got to point down at the end of the fight. I mean, it really. gave us everything that we encompassed when we said like give us a bmf dustin pori max holloway type of fight and we got it absolutely now listen so much of this event was built and it should have been it was built around dustin i i agreed you a thousand percent i loved what max said afterward

he's like this is not my night it's dustin's night and i'm so glad they fought each other because let's be honest there's a lot i'm not going to name names but there's other guys who would not give dustin that reverence in that moment and by the way i get it you win a fight you want to take your want to take your moment in the spotlight. I get it. I'm not going to fault anyone for that. But Max Holloway is not that dude. Max Holloway is like, hey man, thank you for everything. I'm sorry, I had to play the villain. Dustin, it's your night. And he just walked away. He's like, and it's not my time. I love that. But the reality is Max Holloway went out and looked incredible as a lightweight. And I know I talked to him about this before the Gaichi

fight. And he had said when he fought Dustin back in 2019, it was a little shorter notice. And he's just like, I just weighed in. Like, I didn't try to become a lightweight. I just, you know, didn't, you know, I just, you know, obviously he cuts weight to featherweight. He's like, I just did what I normally do. And I just cut to lightweight instead of featherweight. When he fought Gachie, he's like, I actually put on muscle and size and became a lightweight. And we saw the damage he put on Justin Gachie and then gets that in crazy as maybe the greatest

moment ever in history when he knocks him out in that fifth round. And then what we saw on Saturday night was lightweight Max Holloway. He was damaging. He was hitting like a truck. And as you mentioned, still very fast. So my question is this, Al, like, how much of a threat to the lightweight division is lightweight Max Holloway? Because I don't care what you say about Dustin Porre.

Like, yes, he's retired now. But he was still one of the top five guys in the world at his retirement. And you go out there and beat that guy and have that kind of fight. And Max did what he did. How big of a threat is Max Holloway to this division? He put the division on notice. I mean, it's not just, oh, I'm the good. BMF champ, but he's legitimately the guy that they have to kind of look out for.

If you take a guy that is an all-time significant strike leader and the guy that has one of the best, one of the best boxers in the UFC and he has that output and you put muscle on him and it doesn't slow him down. He still has that same output and he's got knockout power to knock out the moment against Justin Geish and then to come here and make those adjustments against Dustin Poirier, it's so much to deal with. And you saw he was even throwing that spinning back kick to Dustin. threw it three or four times. That's kind of the similar kick that that was kind of the turn of the tides against Justin Gashi once he hit him with that and broke his nose, I believe. It was kind of downhill. But he's got so many weapons and he's getting stronger, bigger,

kept his speed. What I saw in the fight with DP in his third one, this trilogy, was Dustin went back to, Dustin couldn't cover the distance fast enough because it was just that Max was too fast. He couldn't corral him. And so what he resorted to was one of his old school moves that he didn't, hasn't done as, as frequently in these last few years was walking it, right? Like where you double jab left hand and you step into the opposite stance and throw the right hand from Orthodox and he would walk into Orthodox. He used to knock people out with that early in his career. He's got Max with that in their last fight as well. In this fight, it's, it's all he could really do to try to cover the ground because he would throw a double jab left hand and Max would be three

feet away. And so he just kept walking. He would step with that left hand, the left leg into orthodox and try to hit him with the right hand. And Max would roll out and circle out. He couldn't quite corral him. But then Max would go and it would be pop, pop, pop, pop. The last 10 seconds of the fight was, it was kind of was a bit of a display of like somewhat, not the entirety of the fight, but when they pointed to the center of the octagon and they went. And Dustin was like, I want to make sure there's only about 10 seconds left. Can't do that for too long. And Max went,

pop, pop, pop, pop. I could see Dustin be like, God damn, he's fast. I can't catch up. And so Dustin did the safe bet, which is throw a power hook and maybe catch him in the roll,

missed him. And then immediately, Max caught him again. Pop, pop, pop. And that was kind of, I don't want to say the story of the fight, because it was a very competitive fight. But it was just Max's speed and power

at this division is going to be so much for other guys to do. deal with. And I would love to see, you know, I know he wants that Ilya Tupior rematch and it makes it very intriguing after this type of comeback performance. Can I ask that? Let me ask that question because I'm curious, because I think a lot of people are saying it should be Max and Charles Oliver are next. And I'm fine with that being a fight. What a great fight. Another BMF, Charles Oliver absolutely defines that. And let's be honest, he already has a knockout over Gage. He has a win over Porier. Now, there's really not,

unless he fights Armin, which is not a terrible fight, by the way. I don't think that's a terrible fight or all if you bought Arm and Sarukian, but it seems like everyone's kind of leaning towards the Charles Oliver thing, which again, I'm fine. But immediately I got a lot of pushback from the Ilya crowd saying, well, he already lost Ilya, but you got to remember the weight class. Like I can't, I'm not saying, like, Max is one of the greatest feather weights of all time as well, but the weight class matters. And when he, when he, I saw when he stood when he stood and did the face off with Dustin on Friday at the ceremonial way and it's like, my God, Max looks big, like bigger than normal. Like he looks big, like bulky.

muscular and I'm not saying he's going to knock out I'llia Topori I'm not saying it's going to be a I don't I can't guarantee it's going to be a different result but I'm saying like if Max continues to do what he did to Dustin on on Saturday he can go out there beat an Olivaire or obviously he beats the suruki and like I don't I don't think you can just say that the fight with Ilya just plays out the same way like he gave Ilya he took Ilya tough and of course credit to I became the first person to ever finish Max Hollywood Strikes and I, even with the Islam fight, I said I wanted Ilya to get a real fight at lightweight.

Like I was one of those people pushing for him to fight Charles. And I understood Islam being like, because if I go out there and beat him, everyone's going to say I just beat a featherweight. Well, if you got to beat Charles Oliver, you're a legit lightweight. And I'll certainly did that. But I don't think you can just write it off and saying he beat him at featherweight so we'd do the same thing of lightweight. I think that the rematch could be very different. This fight looks much differently at lightweight. This fight looks much differently.

We saw that Ilya versus Charles Alavere in the last fight Even though he knocked them out There were times when these guys The physicality, they just kind of bumped into one another And you would see Ilya Kind of fall back against the cage Like just the physicality, the size, the weight

It kind of off balance them a couple of times Now he's a master at finding the target But those physicality type of moments will be there This fight will look much differently I'm not saying that Max Holloway beats I'm sorry I think Ilya Tuporia is the best pound-per-pound fighter in the world. And I've been saying that for a number of years. Even when Islam was doing his thing, he's just so good everywhere and he carries that knockout power.

The one thing that Ilya Teporia, it really makes you show how good Ilya Teporea is because he was the one that was able to corral max. Right. Dustin had such a tough time. And Dustin has great footwork in boxing and he knows sharp angles. Look at Ilya. He took damage. He corralled Max number of times and hurt him and then put him away. Like that is not easy to do. but a 55er type of Max Holloway against Ilya Tuporia,

there's going to be some damage on Ilya. There's going to be some moments where he has to overcome adversity. And that's kind of one of the things we haven't seen too much of Ilya. I don't think there's many or if any wrinkles in his game. But he's a smooth dresser. He fights like he dresses, right? It's all silk. It's all $5,000 suits.

But he's not known as the dog type of guy, right? He's not known as the guy that you split him open, you hurt him, you drop, him he's definitely coming back we haven't had to see those type of moments from him too often in his career there's been some subtle ones but it will be more of that type of matchup in my opinion if he goes against a 155 pound max max holloway and we'll have to test him i think it will test alia toporia at that at this division and i don't i don't think we're that far off from that potentially happening i mean i think everyone kind of looks at it right now and says it's probably going to be patty i get it and by the way this is a business patty for who patty for ilia ilia is such a huge fight

You think that goes over, that jumps over Armand? I think so mostly because I think Armand still a little bit in the doghouse. Like when Dana addressed him at the presser. That's a timeout. That's a, you're grounded for a lifetime. Well, here's a, here's a, I think where, here's where I'll say Armand made a mistake. Guys get injured. The back injury sucks.

And yes, as soon as that happened, I was like, there's no way they're going to give him another shot. Because I know how the UFC operates. You messed up a main event two days before it happens. They're not going to just put you right back. in a main event for a title fight. But Dana said he's got to go win one more. I think the mistake Armand made was playing backup to the title fight. He should have been fighting.

He should have been on that card fighting somebody. I don't know who. I don't know who would have been available with Dustin and Max already matched up. And Dan Hooker is obviously still injured right now. Fight somebody. Fight anybody in that lightweight top 10. Fight Moikano. Fight Dary U.

Oh, you never beat Dary Uge. Fight Moikano. Fight somebody on that card. And then you've done two things. one, you've gotten another win, and two, you've shown the UFC that you can stay healthy and fight. I think playing the backup was the worst thing for Armin because he didn't get to fight. And now Dana's still saying he's got to fight. So, like, if I'm Armin, either you need to fight ASAP or you're just going to have to realize that you're probably going to sit behind Patty Pimbled now because Patty and Ilya, I mean, this new TV deal is coming up and somebody mentioned this to me.

and I keep talking about like maybe going to Netflix, Amazon Prime for like whatever. Imagine in January the UFC kicks off their new partnership with whoever it is. And the main event is Ilya Tuporia versus Patty Pimbled. And the co-main is Kayla Harris and Amanda Nunes. Like that's already one of the, like imagine going to Netflix with that kind of card. Starting out like that. Yeah. And I think Armin is the toughest matchup for Ilya at lightweight.

I agree. For Ilya, for Islam? for any of those guys. But I think that I just think that size, the size of magnitude, Patty Illy is a bigger fight. And he's not going to know that.

Where does Justin Gaichi fall in all of this? You know? I mean, he's kind of the guy in the odd place right now because he's the one that not only once that last shot at the title, but he's kind of got a foot out the door as well. And when I say foot out the door,

by the way, I want to clarify, because I said this during the week and some people thought like I meant like half-ass, like not taking it seriously. I mean, they know that they're retiring soon. And I just want to, when I say one, out the door. Justin Gashi talked about it. I mean, he's kind of ready to retire once

to cut another crack at the belt. But I mean, look, can I throw this out there? Is this a crazy, is this a crazy lineup? I haven't given this much thought, but just during this conversation, I'm thinking, Armand, to me, is the best guy, the most competitive fighter to fight for the belt. Give Armand the title shot against Ilya, although I know Dana White said maybe he needs another, but that's the fight to me that is the most competitive. Give Justin Gishi versus Patty the bad. and then give Max Holloway versus Charles Olivaire for the BMF. Does that make sense in your eyes? Because that's kind of how I'm seeing it.

In an ideal world, those are the fights. 100%. That's the real fights that you should make, but that's not the biggest fights that you can make. And so that's why, therefore, it will maybe not happen. Yeah, I agree. If you're giving me the matches that should happen, 100%. I agree with that.

110%. That's a great series of fights right there. And I know there was that rumor very briefly about Patty fighting Justin and then he shot that down pretty quick. And I understand it because you're going to get a title fight. Why would you fight Justin Gauchy in August or whatever when you could fight Ilya in January or whatever the case may be? But I agree. Armand deserves it.

But the problem is that I think Armand still a bit in the doghouse because what happened in January. And I stand by the fact that he just did himself no service by being the backup versus just taking a fight. Because if you're healthy enough to be the backup, take a fight man. Don't, you know, just fight anybody. Like I said, I know you want the number one guy. You want the title shot. But dude, at that point, just, you know, take the humble sandwich and realize the UFC's not just going to hand you a title shot, go fight somebody else. But you're absolutely right.

That should be the fight. It should be Ily and Armin. It should be Gaichi and Patty and it should be Charles and Max. I just don't think that's what's going to happen. Damon, I need to get your thoughts on the BMF belt for a second because I kind of feel like we're in an odd place right now. And when you look at the BMF fight with Dustin and Max Hollowate, a lot of people were saying, well, like, for the company, it's better if Max wins because now he could defend the belt.

And now we have another, you know, pay-per-view type of belt opportunity. If Dustin wins it, then he vacates it because he retires. But in my mind, I kind of didn't see it that way. And here's why. So far the BMF belt history, everyone who has won it, has either, you know, retired or moved on. Like, it hasn't really been defended. And it's made it easier to say,

you're a BMF type of fighter, you're a BMF type of fighter. Let's make this fight. It makes complete sense. But now that someone has won it and defended it, now that means every fight after this has to be against a BMF worthy type of opponent. And I feel like we're going to fall into an area now

where we're like, okay, well, this is the next guy in line, but he's not a BMF type of fighter. This doesn't make sense. So does it lose the respect to the belt at some point? I mean, Charles Oliverer, like honestly, he doesn't jump off on my page as the first guy, I would say, BMF, but he's warranted it because he's a finisher, he's a killer. There's been some people that questions Charles Oliverer's heart, though, right? You know, there's definitely bias on that.

And so is that a BMF type of guy? But I'm okay with Charles Oliver, but let's say he beats him and goes up against another guy that is a grappler. You get what I'm saying here? it starts to kind of delegitimize the BMF belt. So I don't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing that it was defended because now we have to every fight moving forward legitimize why this is a BMF matchup. It's funny because when Mazvedal and Diaz fought for it, Dana just kept saying

like it's a one-time thing. It's kind of a fun, you know, what a great fight, having the rock put the title around. It was just a fun thing. But then people just kind of glanced, you know, grabbed onto it. They like the idea of this BMF thing, these bad dudes who were just like, maybe they weren't the champion, but they would always go out and put on a super entertaining fight. And I get it. I'm not a huge fan of the hall. Like, I get the BMF. I'm not a huge fan

of the BMF because just exactly what you say. Like, what qualifies you for that? Like, Justin Gachie qualifies for it for sure, but your argument, you're kind of making it with Charles, you're right. Like, Charles isn't known of being that kind of guy. Like, he's not, you know, incredible finisher, incredible champion, but he's never had that moniker of, like, just going out there and having those just crazy wars, those crazy slug. as those memorable fight of the year kind of fights. So you're absolutely right about that. And let me throw this out to you because we're talking about all these matchups you could make.

And, you know, UFC's all about making money. Let's be honest. They brought it up to him on Saturday. They asked him about this because I know Connor's been like, I'm going to fight. Connor's never fighting again. I'm just putting that out there. He's done. We're never going to see him again.

I'm not going to argue with you, bro, not after the week that he had last week. Could you imagine, just throwing this out there, could you imagine, headlining a card, Max Holloway defends the BMF title against Nate Diaz. Who doesn't watch that? Who doesn't watch that card? Nate wants to come back, right? I mean... Yeah, he's been talking about it.

He's been talking about a lot. Tell me that's not a fight that you would plunk down $80 to watch. I know I would. I don't know why I haven't thought about that. I don't know why that hasn't been a topic of discussion. I guess Nate Diaz is so kind of iffy right now, but he's definitely a higher percentage than a than a Connor McGregor or John Jones coming back.

I could see Nate Diaz coming back a lot sooner than either one of those guys. I mean, I'm just throwing out the idea out there is like, you know, if you're going to, if you want a BMF title to be defended and you know Max isn't going to get a title shot, you know, right away, especially, like, let's just say hypothetically they do Patty, then Armin's obviously got to be next, you know what I mean? Like, unless he loses, which I don't think he will.

I think Armand is incredible. You got to keep Max busy. All of our fights are great one. I'm certainly not disagreeing with that. But you're talking about the BMF. If you want to make it a BMF fight, I don't know that Charles is that guy, but Nate Diaz is and tell me that that is not a massive, massive fight.

It's one of the biggest fights you could promote because Max is a star, Nate's a star. You know that's going to be a fun fight. How is that not in a fun fight? We get another pay-per-view, the return of Nate Diaz, keeps Max Holloway busy. It's a good fight for Max as well.

I think that's a fight that Max could kind of build his legacy, you know, continue to build Max off of the popularity of Nate Diaz. That's, I got to say, man, I'm stealing this shit. That's my new frontrunner. That's my next matchup. I agree with you. I mean, there's just, there's fights that I said earlier that I think should happen, but I don't think will happen.

but this is a fight of a guy that can come back. By the way, while we're on the topic of Nate Diaz, you know what I would like to see? I've heard Dustin talk about this. Like people were asking me, is he ever going to hang up? Is he really retiring? I'm like, he's not going to fight again.

Like this is this swan song. Like, I mean, he's turned the page. I mean, this is such an emotional rollercoaster. He's just going to think he's going to come back in three weeks and say, yeah, I want to fight again. Like, it's not happening. But I could see Dustin Poirier, taking a boxing match for a lot of money against a Nate Diaz himself.

You know, that's the guy, there's two guys that have unfinished business. And Nate's already in that world of boxing and celebrities and making these big paydays. And Dustin has kind of had his finger on the trigger for that for a while, kind of like really wanting to do it. I've watched boxing matches with Dustin.

And he gets so frustrated when he watches these MMA guys box. He's like, he's like, oh my God. He just knows how good he would do against them. him with big gloves because he's a big and small glove fighter um Nate Diaz he's a small glove fighter because he doesn't really have the power in the big gloves right the power doesn't show through Dustin could do well again so I'm just throwing it out there Nate Diaz come back and fight Max Holloway for the BMF or Nate Diaz go fight Dustin pour you in the boxing world if Dustin wants to do that but I'm just saying that's something that he's teased before for sure it's

funny when I talked to Mike Brown his coach about a month before the fight I said do you really think Dustin's done. He's like, yeah, I think he's got enough money. He's happy, his family, unless something really interesting comes along. He threw out that little caveat, unless something really interesting comes along. That's what I mean. Like you get, Nate Diaz and you go six months, you start getting itchy and you're like, all right, I'm not going back to the UFC and going to their emotional roller coaster, but I'll go do a freaking eight round boxing match, you know? It's like it, not that boxing isn't scary, but like after stuff that you do in MMA, like,

boxing just seems so much more of like a breath of fresh air. Like, oh, all I have do is put on the big gloves and hit the bag and hit the mitts every day like i'm not doing the jibis or the grappling all the other stuff the hard training it's kind of like it's kind of like a i don't want to say easy because i'm not trying to go that direction but it's just it's something different that's kind of more enjoyable yeah and and you're not you're not hurting your legacy doing that you know what i mean we've seen this a thousand times ever you know it all like guys who don't want to walk away and like we talk like i think anderson still was one of the greatest fighters ever but it's hard for me to put him ahead of a guy like, let's say, John Jones, because like it or not, you can't ignore the end of his career.

You just can't. You can't ignore. I don't like some guys tornish their career at the end. It hurts me, too. And so by doing a boxing match, Dustin's not affecting his MMA legacy at all. Like, I don't count Tyrone Woodley getting knocked out by Jake Paul against his MMA legacy. Like, that doesn't matter to me that he got knocked out by Jake Paul. Like, I really don't care.

Dustin doing a boxing match with Nate Diaz, it's fun, probably earns him both a big paycheck. and what are you really I mean, yes, of course you're always going to risk physical harm because you're in a fight, but I mean, what are you really risking otherwise? Like, you're just going in there and having a boxing match against the guy that you were supposed to fight a couple years ago, why not do it? So I'm not against that.

And I think, I think that, as you say, like, if Dustin's going to fight again, quote unquote, fight again, I think that would be the fight, like, something like that. I don't think he wants to do MMA, I don't think he needs to do MMA, and it doesn't hurt his MMA legacy to go out and box Nate Diaz. Oh, for sure. I just had a horrible thought

into my brain that if he even starts talking conversation like this, you know Jake Paul's going to be the first one calling Dustin. Let's put on a fight, Dustin. Yeah, you know, Jake's always looking for some type of advantage. And I could see him probably going down that route. But yeah, I agree. If he got the itch, go do a boxing match, go do it somebody like that against a Nate Diaz. It'd be a big payday and maybe hopefully not take that much damage. It could be fun. It doesn't hurt his career. It doesn't hurt his career like some of these other guys that held on a little bit too long. Yeah, but it is interesting because Max, Max is in a bit of a weird position now

because he already has a win over Gaichi. He now has the winner of Porier, but he has the lost deal. Even though it's a different division, I don't think they're going to rush him into a title fight, but you look at Armand as a possibility, you look at Charles as a possibility, but like I said, throughout that Nate Diaz thing, Dana said over the weekend, I love Nate. We always love Nate. Nate wants to come back. Nate's welcome to come back.

I mean, come on. Like, you know what I mean? Who wouldn't watch Nate Diaz and Max Holloway? Like, if you were talking about BMF, and Nate was the one, Nate was the one guy during the weekend taking shots of Dustin, like, you know, you backed out of our fight, and he's taking shots of Dustin. Oh, I forgot they were going back and forth. Yeah, like, because, you know, they're still in that history together.

Well, guess what? Dustin's gone, but Max is still there, and you can fight Max, and that would be a hell of a fun fight, and you know it's going to be a striking war. It's going to be a stand-up war, and, I mean, let's have some fun. Like, let's just, let's do the damn thing. If you're doing BMF, why not do Nate Diaz and Max? And same kind of thing. There you, it doesn't hold up a division because Max isn't getting a title shot right now.

We know that. Like, yes, I think eventually I agree to you 100% him fighting Ilya at lightweight is a different fight than it was in featherway. And I said it earlier and I'll say it again now. I don't know what the result would be different. Ilya is a monster. I'm with you. I have I have Ilya ranked number one pound for pound now. I think he's the number one pound for pound fighter in the sport.

But I can't say for certain now, seeing how Max is put on the size, the power he has, I can't say that he couldn't go out there and beat I don't know that I'd pick him to beat Ilya, but I can't say he can't do it. But if we're just going to, you know, if you said Armand, Armin fights, you know, whoever, like there's a lot of different, you know, depending on how they play things out, maybe Armin does Gagey. Maybe it's Patty and Ilya and they do Armin and Gagee. I'm not opposed to Charles.

I'm not. But also Charles just got brutally knocked out. Do we really want to rush him back into a fight right away? If Nate's out there and he wants, I'm just saying, like, I'm just saying, you got an option there. There's a, like a little, because Connor's not coming back. I'm putting him aside. Nate is, though. Nate's available.

You're making a strong case. It's just saying. Just saying. And it's like, yeah, it doesn't really, I don't know if it really, I'm trying to think if it holds up the division in any way, you throw in kind of a, you know, a fifth will in there. but it makes sense. It's the BMF. It's not like we're two versus number three right now.

We're not in a situation. I just was saying that's the dilemma with the BMF. If somebody's winning and defending, the problem with it is as well, the BMF cannot end up in the champion's hands. What do we do now? Like if Max is the BMF title holder and he fights for the 155 pound belt

and either guy wins that, Now they have the belt and the BMF. Now what do we do? Now every title fight is for two, but it doesn't make any sense. And so that's why I think this helps it. Throwing an AD as in there, you know,

throwing fun BMF type fights because that's what it is. It needs to be two guys that we like to see this matchup. We don't really care so much about the rankings. It's just because we want to see pure violence and these guys deserve that opportunity. So you're making a strong point, man. I'm on board with it. Before we get out of here, Alan,

I want to decide because obviously, so much of what we're talking about, rightly so today is Dustiporty. But we do have actually a really good fight card on Saturday at Abu Dhabi. The main event, of course, Reiner de Ritter, taken on Robert Whitaker. Reiner has been, and I'll be the first to admit, I've been on that train for a while since he was in one championship. We've got a couple of big middleweight fights coming up. You got that. Robert Whitaker and Rainier de Ritter, and then you've got Caya Bohalo taken on Nazareneumov in September in Paris.

And, of course, we got the title fight, Dracus Duplice, against Hamza. Chimae of in August. Something that Rineer said to me, and I'm just kind of repeating this to you, just see what you think. He said, I think, depending on how my fight goes with Robert Whitaker, and the fight between Borhalo and Imov in September,

I think the most impressive winner is probably going to get the next title shot. That's fair. Do you agree? I think that because I think it's fair because Imovov has that big winner over Adisanya, which was super impressive. We can't ignore it. Like he's had a couple losses in the past. He had the lost to Sean Strickland and so on and so forth.

And Borrello has been really, really good, but he just hasn't had those kind of like ultra memorable fights, like wins. But I'm trying to think of highlights. You know what I mean? I really think of that. And then you look at Robert Whitaker, who's a legend, of course, and he said, I think he said recently he has like four fights left, you know, something like that, four or five fights left for his career.

And you look at what Rainier de Ritter just did to Boe Nickel. I mean, I don't care that Boe Nickel wasn't a top 15 guy. he had the hype of a top 10 fighter, no doubt about it. If he could go out there and beat Robert Whitaker. So do you agree to like the most impressive of those two fights should probably get the winner of Dracus and Homside? Is that a fair statement? Oh, for sure. I mean, I mean, it's especially like when you have big top 10, top 15 middleweight bouts all kind of back to back to back somewhat.

And it's like that recency bias, right? If these guys are fighting near the same timeline, whoever has the most impressive of performances who's going to stand out more. Maybe that's the guy that kind of jumps or leapfrogs the division. My thought going into this is like, what is the UFC want from their perspective? Do they want new blood fighting for the belt? Do they want a Robert Whitaker, a guy that's a long-reigning champion, a legend, fell short a number of times against Israel out of Sonia, had his heyday already?

Do they want him to go and have another crack at the title? He's already lost his dupe. as well. Are they looking for fresh blood? And if they're looking for fresh blood, is Ryan and de Ritterer, the guy that they want to be the face of the company? Is that a guy that they feel comfortable?

Because I'm not sold on them yet. And I say sold on them as a champion. I'm sold on him as like, this guy's legit. When he first came to the UFC, I go, he's got no balance. He's got no striking. And then he submits Gerald Milershart.

Then he submits Kevin Holland. And then he knocks out bone. And I'm like, oh, okay. Maybe you know, some guys just have a different style then I'm used to. And he makes that shit work. But I don't know if he's like championship material yet. Is this the guy that we go?

This is the baddest 185 pounder on planet Earth. I feel like almost people in the PFL or other promotions are like, oh, dude, I'll go to the UFC and murk this guy up. Like I'm not sold on it yet. So I'm curious what the UFC has in mind as well, because you got to have star power. You got to have people that want to put butts in seats. Is that another aspect to the Ritter's game? Is he that guy?

yet i don't think quite so um kaya pahio so skilled he's becoming a star but kind of a point fighter he's finishes guys but he kind of is a point fighting style you know he's not really a bmf type of guy and i know that's not part of the equation right here imavov has probably been the most impressive so far with that knockout of israel out of sanya so yeah these guys need to come out big they need to have a great performance and and it mean to take that hot mic and call out the right call out right make it known to the world. I'm the next guy in line. Start some type of buzz with whoever the champion is when that time comes. Yeah, and I do like what he said. He knows he can't just beat Robert Whitaker. He's got to do what he did to, you know, some, I'm not saying he has to do

the same thing, but he knows he has to go out there and put him away, finish him. Because look what Hamzot. Homzler goes out there and has that crazy, nasty, jawbreaking submission over Robert Whitaker, he gets a title shot. If Ryanir, DeRer can go out there and knock out, finish, submit, whatever, Robert Whitaker, that's still a big win, right? That's, yeah, that's a big, big mark on your, on your resume. And let's be honestly, if I'm looking at Imavov and Borhalio, like my first instinct was like, I'm being honestly,

that feels like a decision to me. If I'm being honestly, I just, just knowing their history, yes, Mavov knocked out Israel. The matchup wise, the decision. Yeah, but you look at great grappler versus great striker, and we've seen, like, I'movov's fight with Brendan Allen. Like, that reminds me of that. Like, he beat Brendan Allen,

but it wasn't like this crazy showcase fight. Like he beat him, but it was kind of a... Brandon Allen was great this weekend, by the way, right? He did. He did. I didn't think he had the advantage into striking, but God, man, the guy was focused, like a mean... We were talking about this on the thing. I didn't mean to divert on you real quick, but...

But, um, Chiao Sunnan kept saying, look, you give me an angry Marvin Vittori. I'll take him every time. Marvin Vittoria was angry in the air, but Brennan Allen was more angry. And you give me that type of angry Brennan Allen, he, this... I mean, he's really good. We know he's known for, you know, he's got, like 12 rear naked chokes. But the striking right there,

he's a guy that could jump back into this conversation pretty soon. If he takes another fight pretty soon and performs like that, he could be in this conversation as well. Yeah, busted him up. Busted Marvin up pretty good too, which is not easy to do.

Marvin's one of those frustrating guys that you just can't put away, but man, he busts him up pretty good. But, yeah, I just think, like, I think it's interesting because, like, when you look at Drink is, like, he already has two wins over Strickland. So obviously he's kind of out of the conversation.

He submitted Izzy. Izzy feels kind of like he's, in that superstar mode now where maybe he's not going to be chasing titles, which is fine. And if he can beat Hamzot, which, you know, that's a big if, but like, if Drickis stays champion, he's already run through a lot of the top guys who's going to need new blood. And I just think, like, Derriter doing what he did to Bo Nickel. And if he can go out and do something similar to Robert Whitaker, there's Buzz, you know, and I think Buzz matters in this sport.

And unless Imov can go out and just lay waste to Borhalio, which I just, I don't see that fight playing out that way. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he's going to go out there just blow the doors off him and win that. Or maybe, you know, Borhalio comes out there, throws a flying triangle and surprises us all. I'm just saying matchable as like, Rineer makes a point. He's like, I can go out and have a spectacular finish. There's a world where I get a title shot. And I do love, by the way, the UFC put him in there because, like, everyone was on the, I was on the Bo-Nichol train.

I very much was on the Bo-Nichael train. And then to go out there and do what he did the Bo-Nichol, and let's not forget, he was handling him on the ground. round too and then he knocked him out in the second round so if the ridder can go out and do that to whittaker i mean who's not going to want to see that fight if they potentially you know him and he has he has history trained with drakis he also trained with homestead back in the day so he knows these guys i'll tell you this anytime you have a win over robert whittaker that puts you in title contentions you know a guy like that's so high level and he's the one that for years guys would be on a fantastic win streak and then they run into robin wittaker the number one

or number two guy robert whittaker and then they would get knocked back down he would stay there. He just couldn't quite beat Israel out of Sonia. You beat Robert Whitaker, Renier de Ritter. He's probably going to, and he puts him away, finishing him, probably going to get a title shot. Yeah. You look at the guys that Whitaker's lost to. Israel, Drichus, Hamzaa. Those are the three guys who beat him. Those are the two champions and the guy's about to fight for the title. So it still means a lot to beat Robert Whitaker. Alan, obviously, great work on the desk this past weekend. What are you got coming up?

I know you're very busy. You're always traveling and things going on. What's up next for you? First thing up for me is vacation time. I'm looking forward to it, man. It was such a busy week. I loved every minute of it. But we're going to Destin, Florida next week. My family, Dustin's poor-year's family is actually going out there as well.

We go on kind of vacation together. And so I'm just looking for some time off, man, on the beach with my family and hang out. And then after that we get back to work, man. Next month, I think we're going to Shanghai. We've got some fights at the apex. So I'll be busy. But looking forward to that Shanghai card because it's going to be road to the OSC, which I get to call and I enjoy those tournaments,

but also they've got a pretty good main event in Shanghai. Is that the, I think it's Johnny Walker versus Jan Shao Na. Is it, no, I'm not Jan Shao Nan. Zhang Ming Yang. Zhang Ming Yang. Zhang Ming Yang. Look at me. That I'm messing up these things.

Zhang Mingyang. And if you're unfamiliar with his name, because I just mess you up, this is the same guy that was Anthony Smith's last fight. This guy is a finisher through and through. Almost all of his wins happened in their first round. I think he's got a 100% finish rate. he's an exciting guy the UFC's looking to really build these Chinese stars especially for the males because they've got female stars but to have a 205 pound Chinese fighter who's a killer like this main eventing Johnny Walker like it's a fantastic matchup going down in Shanghai they need and they need it too like I said like heavy we need a guy that's a guy right there and and I think people underestimate how much that star power matters I was doing I did a tweet a couple weeks ago talking about how big of a star uh Zhang Wei Li is in China like people don't understand like

She is like Michael Jordan in China. Like she is a massive, massive star in China. Zhang Mingyang can go out there and beat Johnny Walker like he did Anthony Smith. He's going to have some star power behind him. I mean, that matters. Like I said, that Chinese market, people don't if you realize how big that is. Like, it's a massive market over there. And if he can go out there and win a main event in Shanghai, he's going to be a guy to watch.

Like, you know, guy, that's going to be a – he's going to end up on MagaMegov or Alice Pereira's radar. Yeah. If you can go out there and do that. So big card. Big card in Shanghai. So I know you've done a lot of this road to UFC cards as well. And man, those cars usually produce some pretty crazy finishes.

Yeah, they've had some. One of the girls that's, I think the co-main event. Oh, no, no, she's the main event. It's like a main event on the road to the UFC card or something like that. But I can't remember the girl's name,

but she's like a, she's a doctor or something like that. And her parents didn't even know she fought. But she fought on that last road to the UFC that was in, like the Las Vegas of China, whatever that city was. And she was getting beat up and she throws up a head kick and just knocks this girl out. I mean, it was a nasty knockout.

Like she had to get courted out of the octagon. But she never even told her family she was fighting. And I'm like, they're going to know it out. Okay, you just had the most viral knockout I've seen all month. Everybody knows. So now this little girl, this young lady, that she's tiny, is this massive star overnight from that knockout. Now she's main eventing her first fight night at the road to the UFC finale. So things are happening very fast for these Asian fighters because of this tournament.

100%. Well, can't wait to see on that call. And obviously everything else you got coming up to race this year. I always appreciate doing the podcast. So it's very appreciated there. Obviously, for everyone listening, make sure you check out the podcast on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. And, of course, over on the best website in the world.

MFAiding.com. For Alan Joban, I am Damon Martin. We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll see you then.