MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Anthony Smith and Matt Brown Talk Jon Jones’ Heavyweight Debut Against Ciryl Gane and Tommy Fury Beating Jake Paul

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Anthony Smith joins the show as a special guest to give his insight into Jon Jones making his heavyweight debut at UFC 285. After spending five rounds in the cage with Jones, Smith will give his thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages that the former light heavyweight champion might face in his new division. Smith will also reveal who he believes is probably Jones’ biggest threat at heavyweight while detailing how he believes a fight between Jones and Francis Ngannou would have gone. Plus Matt Brown discusses where he puts Jones on his list of the greatest MMA fighters of all time, especially when compared other legends like Georges St-Pierre or Demetrious Johnson. We’ll also all give our picks for Jones vs. Gane and the co-main event where Valentina Shevchenko battles Alexa Grasso. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun!

The morning will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1-8665-3-3-2-60 or visitcomex-X Ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum, you have access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. So your experience before takeoff is a taste of what's to come. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Welcome back to the Fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin, as always. But this week, we're kicking things off a little different way. Matt Brown will still be here a little later in the show. But right now it's UFC 285. week. John Jones was coming back. And I couldn't think of a better way to kick off this show than a man who fought John Jones, a man who is going to be playing analysts this weekend for the John Jones fight. And he has his own fight coming up on May 13 on the same card where our co-host

Matt Brown will be fighting the great Anthony Smith. Anthony, what's going on? Not much, man. Just live in the dream. You know, just getting the last few hangs in with the family before we get really fired up into training camp and things get hot and heavy yeah forgot to mention co-host of the believe you me podcast you know plug that one as well with the great michael bisming yeah that's going well that's been a lot of fun uh the believers keep me on my toes that's for sure so if you guys haven't liked or subscribed or follow it is there it's a it's a good laugh if you're looking for one that's for sure here's an important question i have to ask you anthony because i know that um when he's not calling fights or working out the gym or running businesses or, you know, tending to his children.

I also know the Michael Bisping occasionally calls power slap fights now, as I see. So here's my question. You guys are co-s and show, have you had a chance to slap Michael Bisping yet? I was curious, like, that's part of the show now. And maybe you could like test that out on him. No, not yet, but I am super jealous of him to be able to sit right there, you know, I don't know. Ring, Cage, K, slap side.

There we go. Yeah, man, he does a great job there. He really does it. You know, I got a good analytical mind, and I do a good job of breaking down fights and kind of telling you what's going on, you know, what's happening, what should be happening,

how could this person change the outcome of the situation that they're in? As does Mike, he does a fantastic job there. What Mike does alongside of that better than I do is get you excited. he's a fantastic promoter and he makes you care about something that maybe you wouldn't typically care about a fight that maybe you wouldn't typically care about. He's just better than I am by far in that aspect.

So I think that the Slap Fight League has the absolute perfect person to be calling those competitions because he has the same analytical mind. He explains stuff in a layman's term where regular people can understand it as good as anybody. But he also can just get you excited about shit that maybe you wouldn't typically. be excited about. Yeah, he's very, very, very good at this job. I love what he does. Before we get to John Jones 285, all that kind of good stuff, I mentioned, of course, you got your fight book coming up in May. What is turning into being a pretty good card. I've seen some of the other fight announcements coming for that card. Have you heard yet? Please tell me that's not going to be

an apex card. Please tell me it's going to be like with a crowd. It does seem like it's going to be with the crowd not at the other things. Thank God. Thank God. I was just like, uh, court McGee. That's right. That's right. I did see that. That's right. Man, I'm excited to be on the card with those two OGs. Yeah. I love both of those guys. It's kind of a shitty situation because I like them both a lot. Just, you know, those are kind of your fighters, fighter, man. Those guys are some of the best dude you'll ever meet. So it sucks. They have to fight each other because it means someone has to lose and I don't want to see either one of those guys lose. Yeah, it's, it's going to be a good one. Good card, too.

I've seen some of the other fights getting out. It's going to be a good card, so I'm glad. Hopefully, it's going to be with the crowd. Of course, you got Johnny Walker coming into that one. That's a good one. I don't know. What are we thinking about Johnny Walker? He's looked good lately, a couple wins in a row, and it seems like a good match.

I know, obviously, you know, a little disappointment you didn't get the Jamal Hill fight. Obviously, congrats to Jamal going out there getting the title and all that good stuff. And you worked with Jamal, which I still, like, to me, like, you don't need me defending your character, not that anyone's trying to like impugn your character by the way and i'm just saying this but like if anyone wants to do what kind of character anthony smith has he loses a fight big main event you know arguably bigger than johnny walker let's be honest because jemal hill was you know a bit of a bit of a better run and it has a winner for johnny walker uh didn't uh didn't cry ever spilled milk didn't you know didn't do it wouldn't help the guy get ready for glover to share he didn't you didn't like complain you didn't say oh no i don't want to see this guy eff him no you want to help the guy train for the fight No, I mean, we all got the same goals here. And Jamal and I've always had a good relationship. We've always put nothing but love when we run into each other. He's been super respectful of not just me, but my journey too.

You know, he appreciates the things that I've gone through to get to where I am. You know, he's got he's got a whole shit ton of kids to do. So we connect on that front as far as just, you know, being younger fathers with not necessarily that we're super young, but for the amount of kids we have, we're probably pretty young. I mean shit we got 10 kids between the two of us so um then that doesn't doesn't automatically add like 20 years to your age just by like default yeah it feels like it I'll tell you that but the guy's just he's out here trying to change his kids life and we've had we've had conversations like that even when we were booked to fight each other you know we were at the in New York city for that MSG card the last one and you know we were fighting each other at the time and no one else knew it because it wasn't public yet but it had a long conversation about trying to try to to just change the lives of our children and give him opportunities that neither one of us had. So I've always had a lot of respect for that guy. And he asked, you know, he wanted some help.

And if you, damn it, if you got the, if you got the balls and are humble enough to say, hey, I'd really like to have your help. Man, I can check my own ego enough to go down there and give it to him. I know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyways, would it be weird? Would it be weirder now to fight him, though? Like now that you guys have actually spent like weeks of training. Like it's one thing to have on like common ground to be kind of cool with a guy, right? Like it's, that's okay.

Like you're, once you're someone is different. Yeah, you are a nice guy. I know you are a killer in the cage, but you are actually a nice guy. Now you'll, you know,

someone can bring the fear sight out of you. But like now that you've actually like traded, you know, you've worked with for a couple months, right? Like it was like several weeks. It wasn't just like a week of training. You weren't as far as hard training.

You know, we did. I was there for a week. Um, and then we, trained together. We got together after that and then in Brazil. So yeah, I mean, we spent significant amount of time together. So would it be so would it be weird now if because I mean, he's the champ. So I mean, that's the goal. So no, I don't think so. I don't and he doesn't

think so either from what I understand it. This is what it is. I mean, we train with people all the time and you train in the same places as your opponents when we're traveling and it just is what it is. Like, you know, I've trained around Johnny Walker before and it's not weird. You know, it's, um, it just is what it is. I'm a different guy every six months. He's a different guy every, you know, every handful of months. We're always changing things, add new skills. It's, you know, we check the friendship, go fight, and then we'll have a beer about it afterwards. Yeah. Yeah, I don't really know, obviously I know you a lot better. I know Jamal, but from everyone I've seen around him or heard around him, he's that kind of dude like, you know, I mean, it's like fighting Glover.

Like, how can you say a bad word about Glover to share, right? Like the dude is like the nicest, genuinely good dude. But, you know, it's fight time. You got to go out there and punch each other in the face. It's just work. And they'll both fight. Yeah. So I mean, you know, yeah, I just wonder because like I said, it's got to be a little weird, right, to go from like, you know, quietly getting ready to fight him. And then, oh, yeah, I'm going to help you fight someone else. I think it's less weird. Really? I think it's less weird. Yeah. Because there's always that like, like, I don't know Johnny Walker. You know what I mean? I don't know nothing about him. Um, as far as how he, who he is as a person and what's he do for fun and you know what I mean I don't know anything about I've never had a conversation with

him um so it's just weird getting in there and you know in an octagon with a guy that you don't know to go punch him in the face for your own gain you know it's just when you really sit back and think about it that's some weird shit but I know like Jamal and I know each other they're and we're familiar enough with each other where like once we touch gloves and we start moving around like that will be a familiar thing to see like he'll he'll be familiar with my movement and and not necessarily that he was like trying to get something out of me when we were training together and used it later. It's just, oh, I've seen that before. Like I've seen that type of movement before. Like it's, you know, it's weird as it sounds like when I, one of the weirder moments

when you're in the octagon is like when you step in and you look across at him and like they don't have a shirt on anymore. Maybe you've never been in person with him without a shirt on or how big they are. You know what I mean? Like Jamal and I are very familiar with each other. So I think it's less weird. There's not that weird, awkward feeling out stage. I don't think we'll have. And we'll just get right at it. And I'd imagine, too, in a way, like, not that you want to fight him, but, like, you root for him, right? Like, that's a guy you like. You'd root for him to do well. Like, you, you weren't rooting against him to, you know, I'm sure you rooted for him to win the title. And, you know, now, again, this is nothing against Yeri or, or Magamette or anyone else he'd fight.

But, like, I'm sure there's some party you'd be like, yeah, I hope he does win. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Especially because you got some skin in the game. You know, like, I gave him, this wasn't one of those situations where I went in there and just half-assed it and gave him a couple pointers and dipped out. Like, I gave him a lot of, like, intimate details. You know what I mean? I gave him a lot of little things that he wouldn't have been able to get that stuff anywhere else but from me. That, you know, like, those are things that I carry with me only. So, and he used those things in the fight. So I was, I was willing to open up a sense. open my heart up and give him pieces of me that I that I I guess earned while I was in there

with Glover and I gave those to Jamal and and part of me part of me feels a little bit bad for Glover because I pulled the curtain back you know what I mean I took the surprise factor away and and gave Jamal an advantage that otherwise no one else has had yeah well I mean like I said I'm sure Jamal appreciates that. He became champion that night. He does too. And that's the second part of it is not only did I give him something special. And it meant a lot to me to give it to him and give him that opportunity and ability.

And listen, he went in there and fought his ass off. He did his thing. That's 100% him. But he was appreciative of me taking the time and time out of my own day to go help him. So, I mean, it's one thing to help someone, but to get absolute appreciation. and for him to mean it means another thing. Is it twisted that I'm sitting there thinking, man, I still want to see you guys fight just because I think that'd be an amazing fight.

Like, I know it's weird, right? I love that. I love that guy, but no matter what it's going to have to happen at some point. Yeah, like, I just think like when the fight got made originally, I was like, God, that's a great fight. Like, that's such a good fight. Like, now I'm kind of like, I still want to see that fight.

And I know that's not to focus, but I'm like, you know, no offense, but I still want to see it. I still want to see it. Yeah, we both know it. It's going to happen at some point. So we got UFC 285 coming this weekend. And as I mentioned, you're going to be working as an analyst this week. And it's so funny, after you fought John, there's two subject matters.

Anytime you do a podcast or your own podcast or other people's podcasts, there's like two trigger words that always come up with Anthony Smith. One is Connor McGregor, because Connor loves to come at you, and it's always funny. And I just think it's hilarious. But the other one's John, because you fought John and you've been very honest about John in interviews and talking on your own podcast. And then, like, over time, I know I'm like pulling back the curtain here, but like, you've told you. me off the air. You're like, God, people just always want to talk to you about John Jones. And I get it. Like, here's the thing, Anthony, you're an incredible analyst, right? Like, you're not a guy who's just saying things to say things to get headlines. That's not who you are. That's part of the reason beyond my, you know, friendship with you for so long that I like having you honest because you are analytical. You can cut you can pull yourself out of a situation and just look at it from the outside in. But you also have in, again, talking about intimate details. You spent five rounds in the cage with John Jones. You know what he is. So it's, it's, funny though because now here we are he's finally back he's finally fighting heavyweight so he's out of your you know you guys are not a chance are not going to run into each other again because

he's not heavyweight and you know he's doing his own thing up there but uh are you are you excited for john to be back i'm very excited i'm very excited to have john jones back listen john jones and i's history aside he's good for the sport as far as the excitement factor he's i've said it before and i'll say it again he he's probably the greatest of all time. There's other people that are in that conversation. And so I don't think that that's a hard and fast thing. You know what I mean?

It's an opinion piece. But if it's not him, it's GSP or Anderson Silva. It's those three. Those are the three guys standing at the top of the mountain. And my argument has always been John Jones' strength of schedule is harder than anybody I've ever seen. Especially he beat those guys in their prime. And he did it emphatically. especially earlier on in his title run.

I mean, he was smoking people and doing it in ways that we'd never seen before. So I'm excited to have him back. I'm excited. And there's some new, you know, there for a while,

John Jones fights were getting kind of, not that the fights were bad, but like, it's kind of just the same old thing. Like this has a new wrinkle to it that makes it more exciting. It's a move up to heavy weight. We've,

the one knock on John has always been that he wasn't really into super fights or champ champ, or moving around weight classes or whatever to give himself a challenge. Anderson Silva did it. GSP did it. And that was always the thing that people pointed out. Well, here we are. He's moving up to heavy weight. He's been, he's been ready to fight. He wanted Francis and Gano. Nobody wants Francis and Ghano. But again, I've been critical of John, but when it's time to not be critical

of John, I'm willing to do that too. And he wanted Francis Ingan. I heard it way before it was public behind the scenes with people that are, you know, in the know and people that, you know, are close to those decisions. He wanted Francis and gone, and we asked for him several times. He's been ready for a long time. Francis, you know, had his deal and left, and Cyril Gahn is the next guy. And John has been chasing Steepay as well. He's been talking about Stepe. He wanted Steeper. This guy's not ducking hard fights, that's for sure. And I think that John has had a heavyweight frame his whole life. Even when I fought him at 205, he is a massive, massive man. You know, he he looked like he doubled in size from way in day to the next day.

And his size gave me lots of problems. So I think that he's going to, I don't think he's going to have any problems with heavy weight. Is he going to slow down a little bit? Oh, yeah, probably. You know, he's not going to be quite as fast. His pace isn't going to be quite as high. You know, there's going to be some changes there.

There's going to be some ring rust. He's going to have to knock off. But in terms of just pure excitement, just from the outside looking in, it's one of those fights that I haven't been this excited for a fight in a long time. It's funny when you talk about the framing in the size. I remember one of the first times I met John Jones was in Philadelphia

and I can't remember what the UFC event was but we were out like it was like the night of the way ends and I ran into John and introduced me like he was there it was like a gathering party whatever you want to call it and comes over and I introduced myself because I interviewed him before I just hadn't met him in person and so I walked up

up I was like hey John I'm Damon blah blah blah blah blah blah I said oh man great to meet you you know whatever talk and at that point his brothers were there art and Chandler now they were both very Art was in the NFL Chandler, I think, was maybe getting in the NFL or he was very early on his career. And I know John has joked around about how he was always the little brother because he was

like the skinnier kid or whatever, but I swear to God when I saw him, if you would have put the three of them in a lineup together in that moment, I would say John Jones is a football player because he's freaking huge. He is a monstrously big dude. Like I'm 6'3. He's 6'4 and wide. Like he looks like a heavyweight. Like, he is a guy who has been a heavyweight masquerading as a light heavyweight for all these years because he is a bit, like Daniel Cormier, who I think could have been maybe the greatest heavyweight ever if he had never left heavyweight. He was so freaking good at heavyweight.

Kane Velasquez is another one where they are not naturally, they're not huge heavy weights. John Jones is a natural heavyweight. Like, he really is. He's just a big, big dude who was able to cut down to 205. But like, I swear to God, when I saw him the first time, I was like, how on the F did this guy ever find? at 205 pounds he's massive he's a big guy and I think that the holdup for him making his way to heavyweight is not the number on the scale if I'm being very honest I would suspect john jones used to when he was at 205 I would guess again this is just all me speculating

i would guess he's seen 250 more than once you know what i mean like i he's probably north of 240 all the time if he's a natural heavyweight it's getting to that size and carrying that weight once you're in shape and you're ready to fight and you're quote unquote lean going into a fight and being able to carry 250 or 255. He's got to put that muscle on because I would guess he probably gets, I bet he's gotten to 250 outside of training camp when he was at 205. But then once he starts working out, he starts getting into his two or three day practices, strength and conditioning, starts cleaning his diet up.

I bet he comes off pretty quickly. So because once he's in shape, I mean, he's lean, he's in shape, he's got abs. I mean, I would guess that it's not weird for him to be in the 240s or 250s. It's just doing it with that extra muscle and doing it in a healthy way, not being kind of soft. Yeah. When John, when they finally announced that John was going to be, well, this is going back years, obviously, when he said he was going to heavyweight, when he dropped the title and said he was going up to heavyweight and then we waited three years for it to actually happen. But when we knew it was happening, when we knew he was coming back, we heard the rumors about they were going to book him a steepe maybe while Francis was fighting or Francis was out. We were all the rumors.

Then it was Francis. And I said this numerous times, Anthony, I said, listen, Francis to me is the one bit of kryptonite that John Jones could have at heavyweight because Francis hit so freaking hard that you don't have to, you could be perfect. Your technique could be flawless. You could be the greatest mixed martial artist of all time, which is what I can see. that are John Jones to be, you make one wrong move against Francis and Gano. He will knock your head into the fifth row and blink. You know what I mean? That's just how dangerous that guy is. Now, I'm not saying surreal gone's not good. Obviously, you know my opinion on Steepi Miochich, but I thought Francis was the biggest threat to John Jones and heavyweight, just purely based on

that side. I thought the opposite. Really? Yeah, I thought John Jones would 50, 45, Francis, without a mark. Really? For sure. For at least in my opinion, again, I'm, I've been wrong before. But I think Francis is one of the easier matchups for John. He's going to be slower than John. He's really predictable, very, very predictable. You know exactly what you're going to get when you run into Francis and Gunno. He's not out here shooting double legs.

He's not going to fight you in the clinch and start hitting you with moitai elbows and knees. He's throwing absolute bombs. John is long enough. He manages range well enough. And I think he's faster and smarter. and his skill sets rounder. So he can get in and get out. He can pick it, Francis from the outside,

frustrate him, get him to open up. Throw those wild bombs. Clinch him, take him down, push him up against the fence. I think John gets in and out of a Francis and gone to fight fairly, fairly simply. Wow. So see that. I think Cyril gone gives him more problems.

Again, I'm going to pick John Jones in the Cyril gone fight because he has just more ways to win. And he just has more skills. but if we this is just kickboxing fight John Jones is going to have his hands full for sure but you start mixing in the the rest of the game and the clinch fighting push him up against the fence and threaten the wrestling

just the threat of John's wrestling is enough to give Cyril Gonser problems so I think that's a I think this is a I don't know I think at points this is a tougher fight for John because Cyril's very mobile you know he's I think he moves

very he moves very he moves very well for his for his size for sure um but he moves similar to the way that john moves you know they have they actually have a very similar striking game to be honest with you uh it's like you uh it's like you uh it's like you're all understand you got to promote a fight right like we get that you know we're not going to hear francis's name come up very much this weekend i get it he's gone it's and they're not wrong in that he's not there you can't sit in talking about franzigano when it's not in the organization anymore. I get it.

You don't want to promote someone else's product either. Yeah, but it's also just not realistic, though, right? Like, we can't talk about John and Francis because right now it's not happening. But I, but, you know, so a big part of the narrative going into it is, you know, this is the toughest, this is the toughest matchup John could have a anyway. Now, you, you sound like you agree with it.

I actually thought Steepay was the toughest matchup for John because Steve A's wrestling is so good. And I think that can, that can negate a little bit of what John does well on the ground, whereas I think, you know, listen, I think Cyril Ghan is an incredible athlete. And he's a light heavyweight. He moves like a light heavyweight to heavyweight. He's a very agile guy for heavyweight. And Cyril Ghan's bigger than Francis Gunger. Yeah, he's a very, very good.

But my worry is, is that we've seen him have a couple of sloppy moments, like the fight with Taito Evasa, where he got a little crazy. And obviously I know it's a different style, but he got taken down repeatedly by Francis and Gano with one leg and John Jones, no offense to Francis Gano, is a hundred times the wrestler that Francis Gano is. That to me, now, will John Jones take the path of least resistance? You know, go to the Brandon Vera route where he just takes him down to elbows his head into oblivion like he did with Gustafson in the rematch or whatever.

That to me is that if he does that, and I applaud John for having good fight, I can if he does that, I think he wins this fight going away. If he decides to test himself on the feet because he's been talking a lot about Cyril's not the best kickboxers he's fought, he's fought better kickboxers. I don't necessarily disagree on in theory, but as he fought a heavyweight kickboxer like Cyril gone, that's where I'm like, dude, don't play with fire. Do not play with fire. Yeah, don't play with fire.

Yeah, don't play with fire is my advice. Do not play with fire. Well, I think when John's looking at that, I agree with what he said as far as the Tiago Santos is more devastating striker for sure he's faster he's more diverse um Tiago's more dangerous just in the simple fact that he's willing to put himself in trouble to do it um but that's also a light heavyweight and that's also a man that used to be a middle weight so it is is cyril going to be as fast as Tiago absolutely not but neither's john you know

John's going to be slower than he was when he fought Tiago as well. So again, I'm picking John, but it's not going to be, if he just decides to test himself and stand out in front of Cyril Gaon the whole time, put it this way. That's not going to last a lot. I don't suspect he may have an idea that that's what he's going to do. But when you have the wrestling ability and the ground control ability and the takedown ability of John Jones, you're not going to hang out with those problems for very, long. You're going to say, I'm out of here.

We're going up against the cage. We're going to play this clinch game. I'm banging up with some elbows and you're getting taken down. Heavyweight, we all know. Part of the danger of heavyweight is exactly why the longest title reign is three title defenses. I consider, in my opinion, this is not a knock on anybody

else. This is my opinion. I think Kane Velasquez is the most talented heavyweight fighter of all time. His injuries prevented him from ever going on that kind of run. And even he got clipped and caught by Junior Dos Santos once. Now he came back and just, you know, laid waist to Junior in two straight fights. And, you know, he beat, you know, he's, he's gone out there.

At his best, I think Kane is the most talented best heavyweight ever. He didn't have the most accomplishment, so he's not the greatest. But I'm saying, like, in terms of talent. And even he had those weird upset law. He lost the Verdoom. He lost the junior, all those kind of things. If Cyril got, so in your opinion, because like I said, like I thought Francis, he's out of the picture, I still think steep.

presents problems. If Steve is healthy and on point and his wrestling's good and his boxing is on point, I think he presents a problem to anyone. John Jones, Francis Gano, Cyril Ghan, whoever. But if John Jones beat Cyril gone on Saturday night,

which I'm with you, I'm predicting he will do. I think you will win. Who else do you think? I mean, I guess they're all kind of dangerous, but like, who is the other, who is the biggest, riskiest fight for John Jones and Heavyweight? Is it Cyril Gond? Is this the biggest, riskiest fight he could take or is there someone else out there that you think is riskier?

There's a couple. That's the, I think that's the fun thing with John Jones right now. There's a couple of really interesting fights. The Cyril Gone fight is really, really interesting. The Stepe fight, very, very interesting. To be honest with you, Curtis Blades, very, very interesting. Like another high level, super explosive, dangerous striker against a guy who isn't known as a knockout guy,

That's Curtis Blades' problem. It's always been his problem is he has everything right, but he just has a, he just, he's just had a run of bad luck of getting caught by really powerful guys. Will John Jones's power be much heavier at heavyweight for sure? He's carrying, he's just carrying more. That's just how it is. But he's not known as a power guy.

And a lot of that knockout ability isn't just your natural ability or your weight or your strength. Some of it is just the way that you fight. Some people just sit down on their punches more, which makes them a little less mobile, but also adds a little bit more power in their strikes. So John Jones is just not that guy. He doesn't sit down on punches like that.

He's very, very active and very, very movement-based. So I think a fight with Curtis Blaze is very interesting to me. You know, just seeing John against a, not only just a super high-level wrestler, but a very, very aggressive, powerful, athletic, heavy, heavy, big goddamn guy. Like Curtis Blades is huge. he's huge and he's athletic he's got the cardio to go five and he's super explosive that's interesting to me

and you know even we can go down to Tom Aspinall that's really interesting to me there's a handful of guys like that yeah it's gonna be interesting because again no one's done this and I know it sounds like I'm already crowning him champion I'm not I'm not discounting surreal gone I'm just saying that like that's how good I think John Jones is like I do believe my heart of hearts John Jones is the greatest of all time

already in terms of mixed martial arts and I think he'll do well at heavyweight. But again, there's just that inherent risk that you don't have, you know, that he's not faced before. That's what I was like with the, like, you believe he would have 5045 Francis. I don't think you're wrong. I just think like my opinion was it's just that power scares me. You know what I mean?

Like it's just like that. And that's the thing about having. You can 5045 someone and be in control for 24 minutes and 30 seconds. And if Francis in Ghana, he lands one shot and put you out, that's it. So it doesn't make either one of us wrong. he might 50-45 and then also get caught at the end. You know what I mean? It's just that's how it is.

Yeah, I mean, that's like, that's what happened with Steepa and DC in the rematch. DC's up big, doing well. Steepa catches him and then puts him out. Look at, what was it, Volkov and Derek Lewis. Same thing. Volkov's winning handily. Not even, it's not even a close fight. Not even close.

And one punch and Derek. So that's, that's why this is, that's why I'm so intrigued about John Jones and heavy league. Stepe was still getting hurt in the Francis fight in the fifth round. Yeah. That very first fight. Yeah. I mean, Francis could barely stand up. He'd land one shot and wobble Steepie and he's got to get in and take them.

Look at them after the fight. It looked like Steepie had been through a meat grinder and Francis looked fresh as day. But Francis got beat up for 23 of the 25 minutes. Shepe looked like he'd been in a car accident. Yeah. So that's the thing. That's what I'm just so. I am fascinated.

And I imagine you are as well, like fascinated about how is John Jones really going to? But again, I think he wins this fight. I think he goes the path of least resistance. I think he takes Cyril Gond down. And I just think that's a, I think that's a, what if, if John can get Cyril gone down the way Francis did,

Cyril Gond will not get back up. Because I think John is just leaps and bounds better than Francis on the ground. He will not get back up again. You know what I mean? Like that. And that to me is the difference. I agree with you 100%. It's,

it's 50-50. You're playing a dangerous game with a guy like Cyril Gond. Take it to the ground. It becomes 90-10. or 95-5. Like it becomes a lopsided fight, in my opinion. Dude, I totally agree. I don't disagree with any of that.

Before I get you out of here, so you're picking John Jones as well. Yeah, I'm picking John Jones. Come on with that Jake Paul shit. I know where we're going. You've been waiting so long. I know where we're going here. You know Jake Paul, dude.

Jake Paul finally lost. You were the Jake Paul guy. That was your boy. That's my best friend. That's my best friend. Now we honestly, as much as I want to give him a bunch of shit, again, I'll take myself out of it. I don't think Jake Paul lost other than just the fight. I don't think he lost a whole lot, to be very honest.

I thought he was extremely humble and made all the right moves and said all the right things in defeat. He's exactly where I thought he was as a boxer. I have no problem calling him a professional boxer. I don't think I've ever had really a problem calling a professional boxer. I just would never call him a good one. Tommy Fury said it himself in his own press conference that he is a novice. He's a beginner. He's a very low-level pro.

And that's about where Jake Paul is. The issues I've always held with Jake Paul is him talking about greatness and fighting Canelo and winning world titles. and then beating up on our legends, the guys that we really love and revere, and then speaking about it as if he is the greatest of all time, the best boxer ever lace him up. That was my problem.

I've always defended his right to be able to fight. He's a YouTube star. He's whatever. I don't care what you do to make money. If you want a box, I think you should have the right to get punched in the face just like everybody else for money. But I thought he handled it all well, to be honest with you.

I don't think he looked bad as far as the, the level that he's probably at. I thought the excitement was there. I thought the production was fantastic on the show. There's a little too much clinching for me, but that's kind of what you expect out of that level. They're not going to be in the pocket, throwing bombs, slipping and moving,

you know, hit an angle and get right back at it. That's just not where those guys are in their careers. So I think some people were frustrated with the amount of clinching and hugging. But that's, you know, if you go to a normal boxing pay-per-view and you kick your ass back down to the prelims and start watching some of those fights, that's about what it's going to look like. I thought the last three rounds were really exciting

because they really started to pour it on. I thought they both showed a lot of heart and grit because they were both pretty tired. They'd thrown a lot of big, wild, wide shots that do tend to make you tired, especially when you're missing. But honestly, my hats are kind of off to both those guys. That's a lot of pressure.

They carried a big pay-per-view. They set a lot of things that they had to really back up. I do, man. I thought it was a success. I just don't want to hear Jake Ball talk about his greatness anymore. Got a lot of holes. You got a lot of things you got to work on. But I can't knock the guy.

He went out there and fought his ass off. He really did. Am I, you are a better analyst than me, Anthony, because you obviously do the sport. You know, you know the sport. And I know you do watch and no boxing, you know. So let me ask you. Am I right at my assessment that as funny as this sounds?

Jake got outboxed. Like, Jake, like Tommy Fury didn't do anything spectacular. He stuck behind a left jab and he used good footwork. Those are basic boxing fundamentals, right? Like, I've been doing enough boxing matches and boxing gyms.

That's like day, no, I'm not saying day one stuff, but like that's early, early fundamentals. And Tommy did it very well. And Jake didn't have an answer for it. Like,

that to me was the, like, it was not like Tommy was just, it wasn't, he wasn't styling on, yeah, but he wasn't, He did, I say outboxed.

Like, of course he outboxed him. I'm saying like he just did the fundamentals. The things that Jake. Yeah, I mean, he got outboxed by a guy that's not a very good boxer. And that's not saying that he's not going to be. I do think there is a ceiling on Tommy Fury's career. He is 23 years old. Most of the greats, the guys that really stand out,

your Terrence Crawford, your Canelo, Alvarez's, you know, your, I don't, Sean Porter's, like those kind of guys, those guys got 100 boxing matches, you know, before they even turn pro. So he only had like 10 amateur fights. Tommy Fear, he didn't have that many. Now he's got eight or nine pro fights. Like, he's about 90 fights behind most people his age or more. So he's got a lot to grow. He's got a lot of growing to do and I don't think he has enough time left in his career before he runs into a couple hammers and that'll kind of be it. So it's, I think that they're doing the right thing, to be honest with you. Big fights, big pay-per-views, control the matchups and have some fun fights.

I think like rematch Jake Paul, see what happens there, fight KSI, fight Tyron Woodley, like whatever, get everybody paid at this point. So I don't, I don't see either one of those guys being like world beaters ever there's a ceiling there's a ceiling yeah it's not that far away from where they are now yeah there's not there's a ceiling of the way there yeah and i like listen i never i actually interviewed tom before the fight never really talked to him before really enjoyed my conversation with him kind of came out a slightly different opinion to him because watching a box i was like my god this guy's not a good boxer i mean i was very honest you've seen some you seen some flashes in that fight though like yeah he did he generally generally it was long

kind of real heavy lead foot jab kind of dipped his head. They both did that where they're kind of looking away a little bit as they're throwing it, which is, again, neither one of them have very many fights. It takes some balls. For everybody, listen, it takes some balls to really tuck your chin, you know, hide your chin a little bit in your shoulder, stick that jab and step deep right into range and continue to look where you're going.

It takes balls and time. It's not something. Time is the one thing those guys don't have. So it You know, they were, but they were, they were still throwing it hard. They were stepping deep. The counters were a little wide. They got a little square in their feet when they would start to throw it. Mid-level guys are going to eat both of those guys up.

But I don't want this to sound like I'm knocking those guys because they did show a lot of heart. They really did because they were both hitting each other with some big shots. And this will be the one time. I don't, I have to at least give Jake Paul his due. I mean, he went out there and fought his ass off. they're just, neither one of them are just super high level. I don't even, maybe I should stop saying they're not very good because maybe that's where I get media at all the time where people write these articles and so Anthony Smith says

they're not very good. Well, like, they're not, but I don't mean it like that. Like they're not good. They're not good compared to high level boxers. That's not an insult. That's reality. We just got them talking about John Jones, the real gone, Steve Miochitz, Francis and Gano. And then, and then we move on to Jake Paul.

So in my terms of not very good, like, I'm talking about the best in the world. here on a daily basis every, you know, three, four times a week and then working on ESPN on the desk. And I'm talking about the best guys in the world here consistently every single week. Yeah. And then we talk about Jake Paul. Like the there's no comparison there for me. You know what I mean? There's just different type, different levels of athletes in their, in their own respective sports. So to be clear, they're just not super high level. They're there for where they're at in their careers. I think both those guys are doing great. Yeah. There's a there's a six and no light heavyweight or six and a heavyweight out there.

right now that is mid-level but he would get slaughtered by john jones or sir olgon that's kind of where i would say that that guy's just not very good yeah and like imagine putting either of those guys in with dmitri biville it would be the i mean it would be a one-round destruction it would just that's not that's not a knock on tommy or jake that's just how good dmitri biville is this guy this guy this guy dominated canela alvarez right you know what i mean like that's just it's not it's not a fair fight. That's like that, you know what I mean? Like it's just, and so when you say they're not good, it's not, they're not good. They're just not good by that level. You know what I mean? Like there's a different. Comparably to people who are used to talking about. Yeah. As DC always says,

there's levels of this game, they are minor league compared to major league. That's, they're still pretty good for, I mean, there's still a lot of good minor league players. They're just not. And making crazy money. Yeah. And make crazy money. Why do you? Don't care what I say. They got way more money than I got. So they're doing something better than I am. Good for the. Yeah. But I'm with you, though. Stop talking about being. Canello. Stop talking about beating, you know, just let that go. That's just funny to even listen to it. You lost the Tommy Fury. You're not beating Canello.

And also you said Tommy Fury is 23. Jake Paul's 26. He's even further behind the eight ball. Exactly. 100%. So, all right. Anthony, have fun. So we talked about John Jones. We talked about Jake Paul. You're calling the fights in Vegas this week. Are you going to Vegas? You're going to the desk, right? I am. What am at the desk?

So will you fist bump Connor McGregor while he's out there coaching the ultimate fighter? Because I'll go for the track. Honestly, I said this. I'll say this. I'll say this one. Before I get out here, I'll say this. I know it seems like Connor and I got a bunch of beef all the time. It's not on purpose. I'm not trying to make Connor mad. He's a really proud guy and he doesn't like being criticized my job. I'm literally paid more money than I should to criticize people. That's my job. I'm an analyst. So, but I do believe that if Connor and I were to sit down privately and just have a conversation, I think that he would understand where I'm coming from. And I think I would understand where I'm coming from. And I think I would understand where he's coming from. I very much think the same thing about John Jones. I think we just sit down over a couple cold drinks. I think that we are more alike than we are dislike. It's just there's not very many of us out there. There's not very many people in the world that understand who we are as people because we do a different thing than anybody else in the world. So I would love to run into Connor and just have a quick private conversation

and just let him know, like, I'm not out to get you, bro. I'm not, I'm not, your enemy here. I'm just speaking, just talking. That's all I'm doing. I get asked the question. We talk about a topic and you don't like it. I don't like a lot of things that people say about me, but I, but I compartmentalize it and realize people have a job to do. And I get it. So, you know, we'll see, uh, we'll see how that conversation goes. Hey, he's going to be out there. It's going to say, he's coaching the ultimate fighter right now. There might be an occasion for the, you know, a little heart to heart, you know, throw out a couple shots of proper number 12 and have a conversation. I would too. I would too. I like, dude, if that, like, I know you won't, but like, I would

love to just be a fly on the wall for that conversation. I'm just saying. I would love it. Yeah, I would love it. It's an open, open invitation to Connor. I would love to have a shot of proper 12 and quick combo. We're, before I let you go, I'll say this. Every interaction I've ever had with Connor off air, like, you know, not with cameras rolling. He has never been anything, but genuinely a nice guy to me. Like, he's always been incredibly good. It's sometimes the spiders we get stuck on this. And I say that about John, too. I'll never forget. John, one of my greatest interaction with John Jones. It was UFC in Chicago when Rashad Evans was fighting Phil Davis. And John was supposed to do an interview with me and he rushed through and he like didn't

stop. I was like, dude, like what's going on? Like he just kind of looked at me and he just kind walked on. I was like, what the hell? He literally came back in the media room. Apologized to me. He didn't have to do this. He apologized to me. He said, dude, let's do the interview now. Like it was like two hours late. I thought you completely forgot about it. Like he was in the crowd or whatever. Comes back and apologizes. He pulls me off and we do the interview. He felt bad. He felt bad. He blew me off. And he knew he blew me off. And I was just like, you know, little things like that make a difference. Like I say, like, I'm not defending John Jones and saying he's done the best thing outside the KJ.

I'm saying to me personally, though, he's always been like an incredibly nice dude. Like when the cameras aren't rolling and whatever, John, same with Connor. Connor's never been anything but nice and gracious to me when he didn't have to be. He didn't have to be. He wasn't like I was doing this for an interview and I'm going to blow it up. Like, he did it because he was genuinely nice to me. So I appreciate that. And every interaction I've had with both those guys in person has always been positive.

So it's been a while since I've seen either one of those guys in person, but I don't suspect that things will be any different now. I really don't. I think John will be. If John wins, he's going to be sitting at desk with you on Saturday. I hope so. I'd love to talk to him. Yeah, it'd be great.

Well, Anthony, it's always a pleasure. Safe travels out to Vegas this weekend. Have fun out there. We'll be watching, of course. And thank you as always for doing this. Yeah, no worries, man. You take care yourself, brother. We'll talk soon, all right?

Yep. Unwrap Holiday Magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. from festive and cozy fashion to luxe beauty and fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats.

But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries and we deliver those too. along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. All right, now we're back to our regularly recorded, regularly scheduled programming, so to speak. After speaking to Anthony Smith about UFC 285 and Jake Paul, of course, now Matt Brown's back, back. Matt, what's going on? Yeah, it's one of those days, man. Training hard, bro, like putting in the hours, putting in the work.

Yeah, so you know how it is, bro. Well, I guess you kind of know, but... I live around it, so I kind of know that way, I guess. Yeah, so a lot of people don't really see... You know, I guess we're talking about we do some kind of fight camp update stuff. I mean, you know, this is when we kind of start getting into the higher volume training. And, you know, it can just be exhausting, man. It just gets monotonous and boring.

And, like, for instance, today I did an hour and a half on the Airdine. you know after doing I think we did like three combos for like an hour straight you remember I have your old I have your old air dine remember that do you yeah remember don't you remember yeah you brought it

you brought her my old apartment my old air dine you gave it to me don't you remember those what brand is it uh Schwinn like the old school Schwinn no no it has the digital it has like the digital thing in the middle like it had like the the box on it but uh yeah you know it's an all real airdine you you you don't remember you how do you not remember that is maybe it's the cTE kick in it apparently yeah you brought

it into my house and you're uh in your in your truck and i put i carried her in my house yeah yeah i remember now yeah yeah it's been a while it's been it's been several years yeah but the airdine yeah dude that thing's awesome that's like my favorite thing ever to use so you have to come to the gym sometime and try out the echo bike. So it's Rogue's version of the Arodine. Okay. I think they have two or three different ones. They have the Salt Bike and the Echo Bike.

And it's just another level, man. Like it's just, it's completely different. It's so sturdy and thick and, yeah, I mean, it's still an Arodine, you know, but it's very smooth. And, man, you know, Coleman, he's always there just, he won't let me just do a regular workout on it. It's always, you got to push a little harder, a little bit longer. So, yeah, we're putting in the time, man. Those things are brutal. I remember when I first got it, Ryan Bader sent me a workout on what he uses for

the air day. Now, obviously, I'm not a high-level athlete far from it. But I was curiously, he's like, here's some, like, workouts you could do. And I was like, cool. And it was a lot of, like, sprinting and then stop and sprinting and stop, like that kind of stuff, you know? And, like, he didn't do it. Like, he wasn't trying to make me, like, do it like a fighter.

like it was like a shorter interval. Holy crap, man. I was just like, even on that, I was like, Jesus Christ, this is not easy. Like it doesn't, you don't think it would be that taxing. You're just moving your arms and you're, you're peddling. You know what I mean? But good God, when you're actually doing it, it sucks. Yeah, the harder you go, or the faster you go, the harder, the...

More resistance. Yeah, more resistance. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I was like, oh, this is, and it's, that's what I love about it, though. It's like a, almost like a total body workout while you're just basically riding a bike more or less, you know what I mean? So yeah, dude, those things suck. And like I said, I'm certainly not an athlete.

But yeah, that's an hour and a half. Good God, dude. How are you standing? Well, you're actually not standing right now, but how could you stand after that? Yeah, I don't know, man. So we, like right now, we do a lot more of the longer aerobic stuff, try to get the aerobic base up as much as possible.

So we're doing lots of way longer, higher volume stuff. Still keep it in the sprint. So, like I think was it over the weekend. we did the dam sprints again at the stairs at the dam you know and those you know you go all that by the time you get to the top like you're shot so you know you're not doing those for long distance very often you know and for those people who aren't in ohio that's the hoover dam uh here in columbus and you can look it up on like google maps or whatever and do zoom and it's this huge like i've been there i actually remember i met you out there one time um it's huge I mean, it is like, and very steep, too. Like, it's not like normal, like, just like walking upstairs. It's huge. So for anyone who's not, who's not familiar with it, look it up, it's the Hoover Dam in Columbus, Ohio.

You'll know what we're talking about. Yeah, the stairs are spaced perfectly. So you can walk up them regularly or sometimes would jog, you know, without skipping. But then when you skip stairs, like, you're, you're at a full sprint and you have to sprint to keep skipping the stairs. So it's just a fucking great workout, man. But even those, like when we're doing the sprints, we're taking long breaks in between and doing, you know, 10 to 15 of them.

I guess a couple weeks ago, Bractston Miller came out there with us, actually. Oh, really? And he didn't do nearly as many sprints as we did, but he let us get a head start, a handicap, about halfway up, and he would completely demolish us by the end. Like, I've never seen a guy. sprint like that in my life. I mean, this guy is so fast. It is unbelievable.

Ohio State legend right there. Yeah, dude, you've never seen it. Like a fucking gazelle, man. Just, I mean, we're literally halfway up the stairs before he's even starting. And his takeoff and his stride and everything is just unbelievable, man. So it makes me feel like maybe I'm not such an athlete, but I'll put in the work. And I know what we're doing. Athletes in different ways. Trust me. Football players are different than trust me. There's ways of football players are incredible athletes that they couldn't do it. MMA fighters do either. Trust me. For sure.

To be fair, he only did, I think, four of them. And we did like 10 of them. Since then there's endurance. That's the thing right there, you know? Before we get started on other stuff, obviously, I said we started the show with Anthony Smith. You guys are sharing a car together in May.

I think I got some news out of him. Have you heard anything yet about the location? Because I think I got it out of him. going to be it's going to be somewhere with a crowd oh i have not heard anything it's not going to be an apex show i think pretty sure oh okay what did you hear just what i said i just said because they've been building up the card they've been adding fights and good fights like you know it's a pretty good card and i said please tell me this isn't going to be an apex card and he said that from what i'm hearing it's not going to be an apex card it's going to be a crowd i don't know where i don't

know like the location but he's saying what he said was he's heard it's not going to be an apex card so Well, that makes me feel good. I've actually heard rumors about Jacksonville. I don't know that I'd want to go to Jacksonville, but hey, there you go, Jacksonville. No, I don't know. I've never been to Jacksonville. I've been to Florida plenty of times, but never been to Jacksonville. So I fought there during the pandemic with no crowd.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, we only see a small area of the city and, you know, I only see the hotel and the arena. So that shit was all normal and nice. Yeah, all I know about Jacksonville is they got a good football team, Trevor Lawrence, and everyone always yells Duval because that's the county they're from. They'll dovall. That's what they yell. That's what I know about Jacksonville.

Yeah, well, I'll take it, man. Hey, if that's where it's at, awesome. I hope it happens. Yeah, that's all I care about. Like a crowd would just be fucking awesome, man. Yeah, so sounds like that's what's at least that's what Anthony, and he's the main event, so I'd hope he'd know. Exactly. Exactly.

So good stuff. So let's get into it. Obviously, I already talked a lot with Anthony about, you know, UFC 285 this weekend. But let's kick things off real quick. I don't think you did, but I'm sure you saw the result. Did you see the result in the Jake Paul Tommy Fury fights? I did.

I didn't watch the fight. I was actually took my kids fishing. So I didn't get to watch the fight, but I did see the result. And, you know, was anything surprising? I think I called that it was going to be a close decision. Yeah, you did. And I leaned towards Jake Paul, but, you know, so it was kind of funny because the article on in May fighting, you know, referencing the podcast and everything, dude, I read like all the

comments and stuff, like people are just talking mad shit about my call because I said, I said Jake Paul, at least he's fought some world-class athletes. And everybody's talking mad shit like I was wrong or something. I'm like, no, that's still the truth. That's what I said. It's so funny you say that because everyone. one's flipping out like oh he was so i was like no he was you're absolutely right like that's not being that's not speaking like lies jake paul had fought legit like i mean i don't know if you saw like tywoodly

actually commented on the post and said brown's right like and chris wade another fighter yeah you're absolutely right i think i didn't see that your assessment was 100% right he fought fighters and world-class athletes and Tommy fury fought taxi drivers and you know sheep brought for the slaughter that's a dude his right his opponents had a record of 27 and 176 or whatever it was. It wasn't like you were saying anything like wrong because Tommy Fury had beaten up nobody's. That's the absolute truth.

Like that is the absolute truth. Like because he won the fight doesn't disregard the truth about the level of opposition he had fought up to that point. So it's very funny. One thing I've realized is when I make a, when I say a take on a podcast and it gets tweeted out like, inmate fighting or you know whatever other show or whatever you get so much hate from it if i just tweeted that out like i don't know maybe just the people that follow me or that it gets pushed to

by the algorithm whatever dude i get the most positive like stuff you know i mean and people will talk to me and like some people might disagree but for the most part like people will disagree uh pretty friendly right they have kind of conversation so i don't know that was just on my mind today so I'm bringing it up for no reason, really. Well, no, what you have to, what I always remember is is that, you know, social media is inherently a very negative place. Like, it really is. Like, it's just not, like, typically a very positive place.

Like, and when you have an opinion, you, like, you can have an opinion that you would imagine the majority of people would agree with, but the loudest voices are going to be the people who disagree with you. Like, that's just always how it works. Like, I put up a tweet today saying, like, kind of jokingly, like, Dana had said, Islam Makachev and Alexander Volcanov who will fight again, but not next. Like, they're not going to fight each other next.

And I said, if Benil Darius beats Charles Olivera and doesn't get the next title shot, just burn it down to the ground, because that dude should already be fine for the title, much less if he beats Charles Oliver. And all the response have been positive, but I guarantee you by tomorrow, there's going to be a couple of people in the comments saying, oh, he

sucks, or he didn't do this, or he doesn't deserve it, give it to Volcano. You know what I mean? That's just how it works. Or a lot of, like, what the fuck You know, Damon Martin. Yeah, like, that's, like, that's, to me, that's, like, one of those universal truths. Like, I don't think, like, even the fighters in his division are saying he deserves the title shot. Like, Raphael Fizzi.

I was about to fight Justin Gagee, and he's saying, but no, dare you should get the title. So, like, even people around him are saying it. But yet, that would be right. And I guarantee you there's going to be a couple people who are like, no, that's stupid. That's not a good take. That's a dumb. That's just how it works. Like, that's just how, like, you can't have an opinion without people blowing up about it.

I think I've been kind of spoiled because my social media, at least my Twitter and Instagram, and for the most part, my Facebook is really pretty positive, man. Like, I read through the comments regularly. Like, I have,

I feel like I have a pretty solid followers that I enjoy, uh, conversating with, you know? So like to me, it's not like a hugely negative thing, but it's like when you, I don't,

for whatever reason, when anytime you reference Jake Paul, all the fucking haters come out. or also Miley Cyrus. Like they just fucking come out of the woodwork. Like all the teenagers or, you know, lonely basement dwellers and all these motherfuckers just come out and just want to bring you down to their level.

Dude, I'll never forget. This is like going back a couple of years. And I don't have nearly the like social media following as you do or people with more following. But I made a joke. Somebody had said they ran into Justin Bieber at a, at a UFC show. And I said something joking.

Like if you see him again, make sure to trip him and he falls over. Like, you know, just joking because, you know, it's Justin Bieber. Dude, like, six months later, I'm still getting hate messages from Justin Bieber fans. Like being somebody like, fuck you and, you know, who are you? And they're like digging up photos of me and making fun of me.

And I'm like, Jesus Christ. All I said was tripped a guy, like jokingly said, trip the guy. And six months later, I'm still getting believers, like going crazy on me for daring to, daring to, daring to utter the word Justin Bieber. So it's real, dude. It is 100% real. When you say something like that, it was without fail.

When you say something like that, people lose their freaking minds without fail. Let's see about these pop stars. Like, what a weird thing to get obsessed about. Like, like the Miley Cyrus hate that I got was the most hate I've ever forgot in my life from anything ever. And all I say was she's not that hot. And look, I stand by it.

Like, she's not that fucking hot. Like, I mean, she's a cute girl. She's got a decent boy. she's not like that like if I'm going to call out you know one of these you know celebrities or something to go on a date like what's his name did what who was it uh Julian Marquez yeah Julian Marquez like it's not going to be Molly Cyrus that's all I was saying like like pick a pick a top notch lady right all right now you're you're we didn't we just so we don't disappoint the audience right now this is going to be a bit of a shorter

episode than normal because obviously we had Anthony Smith on. Matt's had a hard day of training. So we're going to get to some UFC 285 talk in a second. So we're not going to get to our Ask Matt Brown section this week. We will bring it back next week, I promise, because we had a lot of questions come in. I want to get to more Ask Matt Brown questions. But let me throw this out to you real quick, Matt. You got a lady.

So I want to make sure we're not offending her with this. But, you know, it's fun. This is for fun. Who is Matt Brown? Who is Matt Brown's celebrity crush? Like if you had one celebrity that you're like, yeah, that girl's like, I would, that's a girl. have a crush. Like, you know, for fun. I'm not trying to be lewd or just, who is Matt Brown's celebrity crush?

Well, the first off, my girl does not listen to any fucking MMA podcast. He's a real lady, and she's a gorgeous lady. She's a former model, you know, like she's actually the perfect lady, in my opinion. Um, but if I was going to call out a celebrity, it'd probably be Scarlett Johansson. Okay. Scarjo. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. She just, she looks like a,

lady to me. That's what I like. I don't like, I'm not big on like fighter chicks and, you know, like fitness girls, his bodybuilding girls or none of this shit. Like, I like a lady lady. You know, I want to, I want her to dress up, be classy and, you know, do her fucking hair, like be a lady, you know what I mean? Nothing wrong, you know, Scarjo, you know, Scarlet Johansson. There's nothing wrong there. So that's good pick. Good pick. I don't know nothing about her. You know what I mean? I don't know the first thing about her other than like she looks like she would be a lady and beautiful. Hey,

nothing wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with having a celebrity crush. You know what I mean? Like absolutely nothing wrong with that. But I also know so few celebrities that like I can, you know what I mean? Like I, I don't even know that many like names.

Like you got to give me to know them. To put this into context for Matt's lack of pop culture knowledge and I always give you a hard time for this. You still, you've never seen Rocky. Oh. Did you see Rocky? I did watch Rocky.

Did you finally watch Rocky? Yes. I watched Rocky One with my kids because they wanted a movie night. And I was like, dude, well, I want a movie night too. Time to watch fucking Rocky. And? They fucking loved it. Yeah.

I enjoyed it. That was cool. It was a good movie. I want to see the rest of them now. All right. Do you know in March, I'm going to a horror convention down in Cincinnati? And it's a horror convention. so I don't know why they're appearing at a horror convention,

but the dudes from the karate kid are going to be there. And I'm so, so legitimately excited because the karate kid was my Rocky, like, growing up. Like, that was the movie that, like, got me into martial arts was the karate kid. So I'm like, I'm way excited to meet, like, Daniel Son and, and all those guys. Like, I'm way excited to meet the karate kid people. Yes, like, when I was growing up, I grew up in a very, very conservative Christian family, right? Like, they were like, I wasn't allowed to watch 90% of movies, you know.

So I didn't get like, well, even Rocky, you know, or like Rambo or any of that shit. But they let me watch the karate kid. And I was begging my mom to take me to karate after that. I still remember and never did. But, you know, I'll be the same way, dude. Like, that was the one that got me interested in the martial arts. Yeah, it was that. And it was, I graduated quickly.

I went from Karate Kid to Bloodsport. That was like my graduation of martial arts movies. from karate kid to bloodsport those are my two favorites growing up nice nice those are too good with bloodsports a fucking good movie bloodsport is the first time i ever knew what moitai was because the dude in that movie does boytai he has we wears moitai shorts and does he does he does the knees he has the plum and does the knees first time i'd ever see anyone do that in my life i was like what is this i think he was a real boytai fighter actually i think he was yeah i think he was but like it doesn't like 89 or something like whenever that movie came out like that's long before like anyone who you know who outside of tiling who knew what Muay Thai was. I was like, oh, my God, what is this? You can grab someone to knee him in the head? What is this?

You know? I remember when the internet first came around, when it must have been, what, like 2000, 2001, sometime around them when I was actually, you know, having access to the internet at my friend's house or library or whatever shit. And I Googled all the street fighter characters, like where they came from. I remember Sagat.

Oh, yeah. That was my introduction to Muay Thai. It was him. Yeah, now I actually watch YouTube videos with Sagitt. He has some really good, interesting techniques, and he was a fucking great fighter. That's hilarious. I'll give a shout out to Sylvie von Douglas. You know, I don't know her personally, but she has one of the greatest YouTube's and Patreon pages, in my opinion, for Muay Thai, period.

She travels Thailand, does all these lessons with the legend. um diesel noi uh sagit is is a big one um yod compan is one and she'll videotape the whole lesson and translate it to english oh nice yeah it's actually pretty fucking fascinating i've learned a lot of stuff from it too very cool very cool yeah i uh i grew up on all that like i said i grew up on all the uh all the games and the uh and the movies like i said that's how that's how i fell in love with martial arts was karate kid and that's how I feel that's what I figured out what was moit's i by watch a blood sport like that's was my interest because that was before the internet we weren't you know what I mean like there was no internet at that but you could look shit up so you had the movies and like jean

like god like there's no movies like that out there anymore I feel like no you know that they're like interviews to martial arts like that I mean onbach was probably the last one yeah I mean they do like they've done martial arts movies like you know I mean they did um what was that a warrior the one of the MMA was in it. It wasn't a bad movie. Like it wasn't it wasn't bad. I liked it. Tom Hardy was in it, but it's just a different way of interest. Like, there's a different way to introduce it.

I don't know. That one like, I don't know. MMA is a weird one though because like it feels like almost like it's not built for that in a movie. Like it's weird to do it in a movie. Like I don't know how, I don't know if that makes sense. But like MMA, it's hard to translate MMA into a movie. They did that one show. Oh, God, there was a call. Yeah.

Yeah. Kingdom. Kingdom. Yeah. And they did a pretty good job because. they had time to do it. They had, oh, you had,

like, 10 episodes, like, do it. You can't do it in a two-hour movie. It's hard to do it. Yeah.

Yeah, I'd like to see just some, like, real fucking, uh, martial arts movies, man, like,

like, like blood sport and karate kids, you know what I mean, like some more traditional shit, like, to get some kids into it. Like, MMA movies,

I mean, they can watch UFC, right? Like, every kid, you know, once they're on YouTube, like,

they can find UFC easy enough. Have you, at any of the UFC events, have you met Jean-Claude Van Dam or Steven Segal? I have not. Yeah, I haven't either. I don't go to the sound of events. Like, that's, I don't know.

It's just not really my thing, man. Like, you've been to enough of them. You know, once you've been to enough of them, you've been to enough of them. Like, there's just not, like, most people, I think they go to a lot of them. Like, they go for the crowd, like, to meet Stephen Seagal and, you know, to be seen on TV and camera.

You know what I mean? Like, watching the, fights on TV so much better. People say it to me all the time because I don't really travel to fights anymore. Like, don't you miss it. I'm like, what am I missing? I've been to like 200 UFC cards. Like, don't get me wrong.

It's a cool experience. And if you've never done it, I would absolutely tell you to go. It's an amazing experience to be there live. But like, I've been to, you know, I was at Connor Aldo. I was at Connor Diaz one and two. I was at, you know, I've been to a ton of big fights. You know, I was at John Jones Shogun. I was at John Jones Leota.

I've been to a lot of big fights in my career. and it's fun. It's a blast to be there, but I've been there. What was your favorite one that you ever been to? So my favorite fight to be there in person because of the way the fight played out was Connor Diaz too because that fight was so back and forth and it was just crazy being in the arena that night.

You know where the media says. We're five feet from the cage. So I'm like five from the cage watching this crazy shit rollout. But the best crowd, I've ever experienced. Wasn't the best fight, but the best crowd was GSP Matt Serra 2 in Montreal.

Nice. I'll never forget. I'm on the end of Media Row. The lights drop. GSP's music hits. Ed Herman, who had fought earlier in the night, come back out and he was standing next to me

on Media Row, kind of kneeling down to watch this. The crowd was so loud. And you know, you walk out, you know how loud the speakers are in arena, right? You couldn't hear the music. because the crowd was so loud. I could not hear GSP's walkout music

because the crowd was losing their shit. It was the loudest, most insane crowd I've ever been around, was that crowd in Montreal. It was in, it was, I remember looking over Ed Herman, and Ed Herman looking back of me,

we both were just stunned. Like, it was so loud. I have never seen anything like that ever before and never again. That's pretty badass. I wonder how it would compare. Well, you were probably there.

Like, I feel like my best, one not my best but probably my favorite moment in UFC history that I ever witnessed live was a Randy Cotor dropped Tim Sylvia in round one yeah like the crowd fucking blew up like how does that compare that nationwide I was there yes I was there that one as far as a pop goes that's probably the loudest pop ever like people like losing it for a moment you know what I mean like a moment happening when Randy hit him with that punch and dropped him Sylvia the crowd lost their shit. Yeah.

That was probably the loudest. But in terms of like a walkout or in terms of like just like a like a sly, like a deafening crowd, it was the GSP crowd. But that moment was insane because Randy was such a fan favorite. And when he knocked down Tim Sylvia, oh my God, the crowd lost their minds. And that was that was like the first really, that was like a really big card nationwide. That was like, wasn't that the first one? Like 20,000 people in Columbus? Wasn't like one of the first ones? I don't think it was the first one. I don't think it was the first one. think they did it might have been though but i know that at the time it has set a record for the most people in nationwide yeah i think it was the first one if i'm not mistaken because i know they

went there obviously several times past that you you fought there um last year i was there um but yeah i think that was the i think that was the first one if i'm not mistaken that was randy because at that point i wasn't that was back when the uc had taken away our credentials and so i was sitting in the crowd like i didn't even have media credentials for that fight Not really. Yeah, they had taken away our media credentials. So I was sitting in the crowd. Like, I was at the hotel.

I went to the hotel afterwards and interviewed Randy at the hotel and ran into fighters, talked to everybody at the hotel and everything. But, yeah, they wouldn't, they didn't credential. So we're sitting up in the, we're sitting with the crowd in that fight. Like, I couldn't actually go there and, like, cover it because they had, like, that was when the UFC had blackballed all the media for, like, I don't know, whatever it was, like 20 or 30 events or whatever it was. And then we eventually got back in, obviously.

But yeah. So I think you might be right. That might be the first one. because the one that I'm remembering before that was, it felt like a UFC, but it was the Gracie fighting championships, Gracie versus Hammer House, right? Oh, that was the one in Columbus.

That was at the Fairgrounds, wasn't it? No, that was it nationwide. Wasn't it nationwide? The one where West Sims got decued against Daniel Gracie. That's right. My file fought, fucking Shalin-Rabreau fought. That's right.

There was a who's who that night. We'd have to look at the card and remember, but there was a lot of studs at night, man. That also reminds me when I went to that card with Randy Couture, we were walking up from parking at Nationwide Arena, and I'm walking towards the entrance, and I ran into West Sims. I remember Wes where I was like, what's going on, man? I was like, what's up, Wes? And dude, you know, Wes. Like, he's, you know, crazy.

And it was just funny. Like, he's just walking around. You know, West Sims is, you know, six, nine or whatever. He's big dude, you know what I mean? Like, it was just funny running into West Sims, running into West Sims outside of Nationwide before the UFC event. What's kind of interesting about Wes, I know him pretty well now. I didn't know him quite as well back then, but obviously we knew who each other were and everything. And what's interested by him is as crazy as he seems.

He's actually an extremely smart guy. And he's a very smart business, man. He's doing very fucking well for himself, man. He's got two or three different businesses, and he's making more money than he knows what to do with. Wow, that's awesome. I haven't spoken to Wes than years. It's been several years I've spoken to him

But I always liked Wes I used to have Wes on my old radio show all the time Like we'd have him on constantly Like he was a hilarious dude Like just crack me up Everything you would talk about was hilarious Like I remember the time he told me about the time He played hero and stopped someone from getting mugged

Did he ever tell you this story? Yeah, did not He stopped some dude from getting mugged And then the cops came up And like tried to break it up or whatever Thinking it was a fight I guess And he's like And I'll never forget

I used to play this clip on my old radio show. He said, he said, he said, uh, the cop said he was going to mason. So West Sims wanted to see a good mason. So I said, Mason,

Mase him. And he's like, that was a bad idea because the cop mason and the wind blew it back in my face, the cop's face. He's like, it was bad for everybody. That sounds like a West story.

I'm up to ask him next time I see him. He still comes around every now and then. But amazing what he's done with his life, man. You would never think, like the way he acts and stuff. I think you might have been playing a character a little bit, but, boy, he is a smart guy, man. That's good to know. You know, dude, like you know as well as I do, man.

There's a million horror stories of guys who leave the sport and they don't have success. So hearing that he's doing well is amazing to hear. That's amazing. Like, I legitimately, like, I'm super happy for him. That's really cool that he's doing that. Probably a good guy to maybe get him on the podcast one day and just see how he's doing. No, absolutely. Do we go back a long ways?

Like I said, that's when, you know, obviously the tragedy that was when Kevin Randleman passed, you know, because I used to have Kevin on my show all the time when he's, when his wife did the Hall of Fame induction, uh, two years ago, like, she reached out to me and just like, you know, wrote me a really, really nice little letter and sent me something because, like, I had known Kevin for so long. Like, I had had Kevin on my podcast and like I still, like, I loved Kevin. Like, I adored that dude. Um, and like that meant the world to me. Like, she remembered that. Like, she remembered like, you know, Kevin liked doing my show and like we had been friends and stuff. So, I was like, you know, those guys

there's always going to be a loyalty there. And like, West probably, at this point, rest probably has no memory of it because it was like a decade ago when he was on my show. He used to come on all the time. Like, he used to come on like, you know, I don't know, like, you know, a couple, three times a year. He didn't have a fight.

We just have them on to, like, BS and, like, talk. And he always had a story to tell. Like, that was West Sims. He always had a story to tell. Yep, he's got some more to tell now, too. I guarantee you. All right. This episode is brought to you by Peloton.

A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, Could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list?

Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winners?

Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. Let's get into it real quick here. UFC 285 this week. and John Jones making his heavyweight debut. We talked earlier in the show with Anthony Smith. Of course, Anthony, I'll give you a little bit of, you know, kind of like the lowdown on what he had talked about.

You know, obviously he fought John. He believes John's going to do well at heavyweight. He picked him to beat Cyril Ghan. I know, and he actually, and here's an interesting take. And I disagreed, but he had an interesting take. He said, like, he actually thought Francis and Gano would be an easier fight for John. When I say easier, I just mean easier than Cyril Gahn. He said, I think John would probably 50, 45, Francis,

because I think there's a clearer path to victory there. but he did pick him to beat Cyril Gahn. I think when we talked about it a while back, Matt, we both agreed like Francis was the biggest obstacle. Where do you rank? Because, like, I like Cyril Gond. I don't want to make it sound like a disrespect to Cyril Gond, but I just don't think he's the most difficult matchup for John Jones.

Yeah, I think that, I mean, we don't know how John's going to perform a heavyweight yet, which is the first thing. And if he can perform well, I kind of, I get where Anthony's coming from. You know, the thing with Francis that we all know is he just has the X factor, man. Like, I don't care if you're John Jones or anybody. Like, he hits you. Like, the fights over. You could be, you know, it could be one of those.

John is up five rounds to nothing and, you know, a clear wash for John Jones. And then 10 seconds left, Francis finally lands out one shot and it's over. Whereas I don't know, I haven't watched a ton of serial gone, but I don't see that in him, really, you know. But so I think the risk is just different where the risk of serial gone is more like he, you know, pointing him out or just simply being a little better, you know, you know, being a better striker. John maybe not going for the takedown. But it's hard to believe that John isn't going to get the takedown at some point and probably demolish him. Yeah. Whereas with Francis, it's like, even if you do that.

for five rounds, he still has that chance. It only takes one where I don't know if Surreal has that or not. And he might, but. I mean, I think almost every heavyweight to a certain extent has that quote-unquote one-punch knockout power, but I'm saying like proven one-punch knockout power. I agree with you. Like, I don't think he has that. Like, could he connect with one punch and put you out?

Of course he could. He's a heavyweight, anybody, you know what I mean? But that's not what he's known for. That's not his style. Like, look at his fight with Tai Titoi Vasa. Like he had to batter Taitoivasa. finally put him away. Like he didn't just put him away with one shot.

Yeah, and it's going to be interesting. I think, you know, the most interesting part is going to be how does John handle those punches at that weight versus, you know, he got hit to a five pretty decent amount by lesser guys. And we pretty much assumed, you know, he probably wasn't motivated or fighting at his best. He was too relaxed and chilled. But if that's not the case. And he gets hit by Surreal Gone, you know, how is he going to handle that punching power?

Yeah. Where do you rank? I'm curious, where do you rank, John, on your all-time list? So my all-time list, it's kind of tough, man, because you have, I don't think you can make an all-time list and have someone that's tested positive three times and not take that into account. if you take that into account, then you almost have to put an asterisk next to it. Right or wrong? You're right.

This is where the whole debate. See, you're right. Okay. You're right. And I, if you go back and listen to other podcasts I've done in the past years ago, I said the same thing because I said, you know, that's a knock against Anderson Silva. It's a knock against John Jones.

Maybe my opinion has changed in recent years. And here's why I've, I've, I've lessened my stance on that a little bit. And again, you could disagree with me. I'm just saying this is why I have. Two reasons. One, I think John did fight at a time, because John fought before you saw it. He became champion in 2011 or whatever.

He fought at a time when I'm quite sure there were guys he fought that were juiced out of their gills more than likely. Like, you know what I mean? He fought at an unfair time. And two, he also fought during the TRT era when guys like Vitor, who he did fight Vitor when Vitor was, I mean, you know, Vitor was on, you know, Secret Juice times 20, you know, taking TRT. Now, by the way, did nothing wrong. That was legal. It was completely legal at that time.

You know what I mean? But we all know, you know, getting jacked up on TRT was, you know, there was making some of these guys Superman at 40 when they weren't really Superman at 40. So I also, again, I know that sounds like I'm discounting things to make room for John Jones, but like when I started thinking about it and then I think about even today. like this again we brought this up we talked about Connor McGregor like you said Connor McGregor has done nothing wrong because he found a loophole in the system and he's just exploiting it and you're 110% correct but he's not the only guy there's other people I'm sure that are exploiting it in some way shape or form doesn't mean they're out of the pool but they're doing something so I don't maybe it's just the cynic in me Matt like the cynicism of me where

I'm just like I'm kind of living by the Diaz you know the Diaz theology of everyone cheats but like I'm just kind of like I don't know maybe I'm not saying it doesn't matter. What you're saying is 110% correct because that's been my stance all along. But I guess I've just lessened my like how rigid I am about it because it feels like

a lot of people cheated during that time. A lot of people still cheat during this time and it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying it makes it right, but I don't know that John's not fought on a level playing field. I don't know that John's fought against guys on level playing field. So it's kind of like I don't I don't. Maybe I just, maybe this is just me and my age being like I just don't care anymore.

You're right. Yeah, I think I feel a little bit of that too. So to answer your question, then if we, if we're looking at the steroid allegations and you believe he's on steroids or was on steroids or that it was a cheat, right? Let's say, okay, then and you're just removing John from the list altogether, then it's probably Demetrius Johnson. If we're going to put John in there, then yes, he's number one. I don't think there's any question about it if you're willing to look past that.

Yeah. I just, I think here's why I think skill-wise, Demetrius is probably the most talented guy. But also, I think that also goes there. I mean, this is not a, this is not a,

you know, a knock on Demetrius, but like, Demetrius as a smaller, lighter guy can do things that a 205, 230-pound guy can't do. For sure. That's the reality, right?

Yeah. And his level of competition was probably not what John. That's what always, that's, I love Demetrius. Just interviewed Demetrius a couple weeks ago. I love Demetrius. I think he's incredibly, but that's the problem right there. I think he didn't fight. He didn't fight the same level of competition as John,

and I don't think you fought the same level of competition as George St. Pierre. And that's why I kind of put him a little lower on like the, now we're just talking talent, the most talented martial artist. To me, it's Demetrius and John Jones, like one and two. You know what I mean? Like, however you want to do it. But we're talking like accomplishments, the greatest of all time.

To me, it's John Jones, George St. Pierre. I still put Anderson. Like, again, I know we're talking about the whole, you know, drug thing, but I put Anderson near that list and then probably Demetrius for any of the top five. And again, how bad is to be top five all time? You know what I mean?

Like, that's not a bad luck. But I just, I just think John is undefeated. I don't care. Sorry, Matt Hamill. You didn't really beat him. And he beat so many, I mean, he did. He beat the breaks off Shogun at 23. You know?

I mean, he beat Machita, when Machita was still Machita. He beat Rampage. He beat, I mean, everybody, dude, he beat everybody and beat them handily. And then when he almost lost Augustson, when he came back, he beat the, he beat the breaks off Gustafson in their rematch. He has two wins. I know the second one got overturned, but he has two wins over Daniel Cormier. I consider Daniel Cormier one of the greatest of all time. Like, he's on that list. He has two wins over him. You know, like, those are the kind of accomplishments where it's just like, Even G. Listen, dude, I'm not knocking GSP. I'm just saying like, even GSP, if there was going to be a knock on him, and this is a very small complaint, I'm just saying like, he didn't, outside of Johnny Hendricks at the very end, and Johnny was probably, you know, probably not all natural either. You know, we've talked about that before. But like, he didn't really have that huge one contemporary that was his equal. John had that at least in Cormier. Like, I think, again, when John wasn't around, Cormier was. the champ and proven they beat everybody else yep gsp never quite had that like he had good people but

he never quite had that guy that was like seen as his equal yeah i'm right there with you and i think that uh so for me like it's john and then everybody else has an argument for number two everybody we just talked about but i would put anderson to have a good argument for number two also i agree B.S.B and Demetrius. I think it's sort of all semantics at that point, who's number two. But John is just a level above every single one of those guys. Does he, so we already, so again, I know we're talking about the drug thing. Let's just, again, I'm just discounting that for the time being, okay?

If we both say he's number one right now, what does a, what does a heavyweight title do for John Jones's legacy? I mean, I mean, geez, it's completely. I mean, he's already number one and then it just cements it even farther. My question is if he loses, where does he go? I still think he's number one because, again, like, I don't think there's any, again, I don't, I don't think Israel Adasanya's lesser of a middleweight fighter because he lost to Jan Blahovic. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't think he's a, you know, I don't, I don't take away how good Alexander Volcanowski is because he lost a close decision to Islam Makachev. Like he's still amazing. You know what I mean? If John Jones, and again, it also depends on how the fight plays out. If he goes out there, gets absolutely rocked and destroyed inside of one round, it's different than if he loses a 48, 47 split decision or something crazy like that. You know what I mean?

But if he loses and it's a close fight or he loses late or he's winning and he gets caught late like happens what we talked about earlier, I think it really hurts him. I mean, I'm not saying it doesn't, I mean, he might retire. He might say, well, I'm done because like, you know, that might be, he might just say, I'm not, if I can't be champ and I can't be the best of the world, I don't want to be here. But I don't think it really hurts him. And to me anyways, because again, he is, he is a light heavyweight. Now, do I think he has a body built for heavyweight?

Absolutely. I've stood next to John Jones. He's massive. But I don't think it hurts him that bad. I mean, you know, I don't think it kills it. And listen, in reality, it only puts him on a level playing field. George St. Pierre has a couple losses. You know, Demetius Johnson has losses.

Like, John just has none. Like, he has no losses. So, once again, like, what does one loss really do? him. Yeah, that's a really great point. So, yeah, I agree now that you mention it, because look, if he goes up and loses, at least he lost a heavyweight, you know, and again, it depends on how he loses. But yeah, dude, he's the greatest, man. Like, everything he's already done, he's pretty much already submitted it, right? Like, it's going to take someone a very long time to even compete with him as the greatest at this point. Yeah. It's, any title defenses is he have now?

I mean, he had, like, he's undefeated in title fights. I don't remember because he lost his title and all that thing. So I don't know what the number is, but I think he's got like 14 fights in title fights he's won or something like that. I thought it was 13 or 14. I mean, that's an unreal number. And you look at the list of guys that he beat, you know, especially like guys that were, you know, in their primes, right? Like, like, Shogun was fucking killing people, you know? I don't know if he was necessarily in his prime, I guess, but like Cormier was certainly in his prime.

And, you know, like this was, and the way that he beat Cormier, too, is what was, that was probably what solidified it to me was the Cormier fights. Like, he'd taken Cormier down. Like, who takes Cormier down? You know? So, yeah, I mean, he just, and he's so dominant in all areas. Like, you know, he's had a little bit of trouble on the feet. But again, we kind of, we're kind of like, well, that's him, you know, he's just getting bored, right? or great we're also i think we're also grading him on a curve too right like yeah he sets he sets the

expectation so high that when he doesn't just look amazing we're like what's wrong with john jones because he just sets the bar so high yeah we were talking about that the other day right when a lot of times when guys such a big underdog if they have any success you're just like wow he did awesome you know you kind of overplay what he actually did so i think that's happened with John Jones a few times, you know, when, and if you look at it more objectively, you know, he was still dominating the fight and controlling it and winning. But again, what I'm saying, he's just so fucking dominant in all areas and just fucking makes guys look like amateur sometimes, man. And it's just amazing, like, to have an athlete like that in the sport.

Guys who are really good, he makes them look bad. Like guys who are world-class, championship level fighters like at his peak at his peak could you tell me that Alexander Gustafin couldn't have been a UFC champion he absolutely could have been a UFC champion Glover to Cher ended up being a UFC champion John Jones demolished them

I mean you know what I mean like that's it wasn't you know what I mean so like he makes great fighters he makes great fighters look pedestrian exactly and in all areas too you know it's not like you know I don't know, like Anderson, right?

Like he pretty much had to keep it on the feet, right? Like when he fought jail, you know, he finally, like he looked completely, he was about to lose a fight on the ground, right? He had, like John Jones would never, you know, it doesn't matter what area it's in. Like he is dominating you there. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. He's amazing. He's absolutely amazing. And that's also why I kind of, I put DJ up so high, you know, not just the, you know, the reason we don't keep in number one is, you know, mainly because of level of competition. But he's another guy just, he's up so high partially because of his resume and what he's done. But in all areas, he just looks absolutely phenomenal against everyone in every single area of the game. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

So I assume you're picking John Jones to win on Saturday? I'm definitely going to pick him to win, yeah. Yeah, I think he's going to take him down and elbow him badly. I just, Surreal Gone got taken down by Francis and Gano, and this is not a knock on Francis, but John Jones is, you know, 100 times the wrestler that Francis and Gano is. He takes him down, Cyril Gons, not getting back up again, in my opinion. I'm with you on that.

And, yeah, I have at least, again, I haven't studied Cyril Gons' fights, but I haven't seen anything to show that he could handle John's grappling. in any way. Speaking of real quick, where we get out of here, speaking of the co-main event, another fighter who has set the bar so high that when she has a split decision,

suddenly people are like, what's wrong with Valentina Shivchenko? She had a split decision. Valentina Shepchinko is the number one pound-for-pound women's fighter in the world. Sorry to everyone else, but she is. She's so good. I remember when she had one round lost to Jennifer Maya and everyone lost their shit.

Like, oh my God, she lost a round. That's how high the bar has been set by Valentina Shepchenko, she lost one round and people like, holy shit. She has a very favorable matchup this weekend against Alexa Grasso. I like Alexa. Alexa is a boxer by trade. That's her best weapon. You're playing into Valentina's world.

And Valentina is a devastating striker with more power, more weapons. And if she takes it to the ground, I just, I think this is, this is the fight that's going to remind people just who, Valentina Shepchenko is. Yep, couldn't agree more. I think that's exactly right. And, you know, the biggest thing is, like, Valentina is so much more athletic and, like, stronger. You know, I haven't seen anything from Alexa Grasso show me that she has a clear path

to victory on this. Yeah, it's just a tough one. I mean, again, this is, this is the last time people questioned Valentina, when she had that fight with Maya, her next two fights were Caitlin Chukagan and Jessica And draws, and she absolutely mauled them to prove a point almost. Like, she just, and I unfortunately, I think the toughest matchup for her is Aaron Blanchfield. That's not the fight we're having this weekend, though. It's Alexa Grasso, and I like Alexa, but I don't like her chances in this fight. I just don't. I just, this is, this to me is a bad matchup for her. Like, this is a bad

matchup against a dominant Muay Thai striker and a legitimate savage on the ground in Valencia Yeah, again, I just don't see anything where, you know, MMA is a crazy fucking sport. You never, what's going to happen. But there's on paper, there's no clear path to victory for Alexa Grasso. So she's got to come up with a great strategy and be trained perfectly and go in there and perform at her absolute peak to have a shot. Yeah. And that's to have a shot.

Like that's not like, that's not like making a 50-50 fight. Even then we're like, well, yeah, I got to punch. chance um you know at that point you're you're really you're kind of hoping that valentina has an off night yeah like you're at your peak she's having an off night everything went perfect for you um and that's just the only path to victory that i can see for in terms of um you know grappling striking and all that like i just don't see a path of victory unfortunately and uh valentina is just man you said it perfectly she's just amazing dominant in all areas and i think she's the best woman's fighter I've ever seen personally.

Yeah, she's incredible. Before we get out of here, I got to go full circle. It's funny. Anthony brought this up when I talked to him, and I think you'll get a kick out of this too and laugh. He was talking about how we were, we obviously talked a lot about John Jones because he fought John Jones. We broke down his fight and him coming to heavyweight.

And he said that he was talking about how, like, how funny is it that we go from John Jones and we closed our conversation. Talk about, like, just a huge, like, the chasmuched between two subject matters. You know, but the Grays of all time in John Jones didn't go. to Jake Paul. He's like, that's combat sports, I guess. And I was like, it's true. We talked about Jake Paul to start our conversation. We end on John Jones and Valentina Choncino Chonko. Could you think of two polar opposites in terms of, and this is not a knock on Jake Paul. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not trying to dig on Jake Paul. But this was kind of

like, we are always conversation about when Jake would say, I'm going to beat Canello one day. And I'm like, dude, you're not being Canello. Like after, after watching him fight Tommy Fury, like it would be, it would be a crime against humanity to put him in there with like Demetri Bibble. Like, that would just be like, someone should get arrested for putting him in the ring with somebody like Demetri Bivel. Like, just bring the cops on. Like, dude, you should, that's not right.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, that'd be like me. That'd be like putting me in the cage with Francis de Gondon. Like, you're just, what, you're just doing it to see someone get murdered. Yeah. I think it'd be fun to watch. And I actually like Jake. I don't have anything against them.

But it would be fun to watch because you would see the, the difference in levels. I mean, it's amazing. Like, people forget, like, how hard. fucking boxing is, man. I mean, MMA as hard as it is and everything. Like boxing, you're only allowed to throw your hands. You're only allowed to punch the head in the body. Like, it is a hard fucking sport, man.

And, you know, people kind of start, you know, they see Jake Paul do some basic stuff against some, you know, old NBA fighters, whatever, and they start thinking all these things. Or just like, you know, giving Connor a chance against Floyd. I don't know who did that. I don't know who would have. ever said something like that. You know,

not to mention any names here. Let's not talk about that, Matt. Let's not talk about that now. Should we talk about Connor and Aldo again? Come on. Let's talk about that one instead. There we go. So it's like,

you know, people would just forget how fucking difficult boxing is, man. You know, these guys like DeVille and Mayweather and Canelo, that they've been perfecting this art since they were children. And they're one in a million even of that. Like there's so many people that have been perfecting this art since they were children

and still haven't succeeded anywhere near these guys. So like they're one in a million of those one and a million. Some of the Anthony brought up and he's right because boxers like wrestlers start very early. Like generally speaking, boxers are boxing at like, you know, early, early years, right? Jake's 26. He's six and one. He just lost to another novice box. like Tommy Fury, no one is going to sit here and claim Tommy Fury, but no one's going to sit here and claim Tommy Fury is a championship level boxer. He's far, far, far from that. And Tommy's 23. He's still got time, but even that, like, Jake can continue on. I hope he does. I hope he continues to go. And listen, I hope he fights Nate Diaz. I hope he fights KSI. I hope he fights all these guys who makes a boatload of money and has fun with it. But the whole, like, I'm going to be a champion one day conversation just needs to stop. Because if you can't beat Tommy Fury, and this is,

is not a knock on Tommy Fury. If you can't beat Tommy Fury, you are not on the level of a legit, you are not beating any, are there, I mean, listen, there's a million titles in boxing. There's some JBCF that would, you know, throw him in a title fight and give him a belt for the sake of doing it. But in reality, like real organizations, IBM, WBA, whatever it is, come on. Like, we just got to stop that conversation. Like, it's over. But I also never, I never, um, what's the term look for? I would never say that someone can't do something that they say they're going to do. You just,

you never really know. But the chances that, like, what he's shooting for is something astronomically distant. Like, like it is a very, just one of the most difficult things you could possibly ask for a human to do. He'd have about as good of a chance to make in the NFL as he would as being a world champion, you know,

in the WBC, right, boxing. So, you know, or the ring champion or something, Ring magazine for those of you that don't know. You know, like the, the odds are just astronomically against them. Yeah, and you can be a bot.

I think, again, a lot of people said he's a pro boxer now. They're taking respect. I can 100% give him respect. 100%. I respect anyone steps in there and does it do it. It's dangerous. I'm not doing it. Good for, but just, again,

We got to have realistic expectations about it, right? Like, it's okay to be Jake Paul. It's okay to fight Nate Diaz and Tyrone Woodley and Anderson Silva and KSI and all these. Whatever. Have fun, dude. Make your millions. Dude, he said he made $30 million off this fight. Good.

I'm glad you did. I didn't watch the fight. I heard that he gassed out. That's what a lot of people were saying. He did, but then he got a knockdown in the eighth round, which is kind of crazy. Like he hit him with a straight punch. I seen a knockdown. That was a fucking slip 100%.

Yeah, it was. it was it was it was not like a full on knockdown but no that was a slip but that that was the only part that i don't like about it is like you know that he gassed out you know he's got the millions of dollars he's not he's financially free he's not having to work a job or something to keep up he's got access to all these people and trainers he should not be gassing out in an eight round fight that tells me he was not putting in the amount of work that he should have been putting in and that is what makes me question whether he actually has a potential to be a legitimate professional boxer right he's a pro boxer you know he went out he fought a real pro boxer

more power to him congrats to him good job it takes a lot just to get to that you know even people want to discount Tommy Fury but to go eight rounds with Tommy Fury and a split decision deserves respect and I respect him for that but the fact that he gassed out in those eight rounds, you know, that tells me that, you know, he's not going to be a top 10 boxer ever. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know if anybody was calling that, saying that he was going to be either. So, you know, don't make that the headline. And, you know, that's the reality. Like I said, it's nothing against Jake. And then, like I said, dude, Tommy, you know, Tommy's not the greatest boxer, but he impressed the hell out of me because I was Tommy's biggest critic.

I said, I watched Tommy Fury. fight and I was not impressed at all. And he went out there and stuck behind his jab, used good footwork, basic boxing fundamentals. Just little, I mean, again, just the little fundamentals that Jake Paul didn't have. And he beat him with it. And good for him. Like I said, good for Tommy Fury. He did what he was supposed to do. He outboxed him. And, you know, Tommy Fury impressed me. Jake didn't lose by a wide margin. He didn't get blown out of the water. He didn't get knocked out. But like I said, there are levels to this game. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Everyone always takes it like it's this offensive thing when you say like he'll never

be a champion. Okay, guess what? There's a million really good boxers out there who will never be champion. That's not like a, that's not, I'm not trying to insult you. That's just the reality. Like, unfortunately, you know, some guys are going to run into Canello or some guys are going to run into Geronti Davis or some guys are going to Tyson Fury. They can be really good boxers. But they're just, they're unfortunately, they're not that guy. And there's just, there's nothing wrong with that. And this is part of why these boxes, they do so many matches before they have big fights and before they take on risks like that. They get to know who they are, right? And they get to learn about themselves and how well they are, where the weaknesses are. So the fact that these

two guys came together at this juncture and their career is actually pretty impressive. Like, you don't see this in boxing very often, right? Most of these guys, you've seen Tommy Fury's record how the guys kind of get a little bit better every time but they're still you know they're still not world beaters or anything and he's still got another 10 fights or so for that so you know I don't think you know these guys they got they may have a lot more potential than either one of us realize like Canelo Alvarez at one point was eight no and we didn't know who he was right and probably wouldn't watch them and he probably wouldn't have thought oh he's going to be a world champion by watching them, right?

You know, this is the way boxing works, right? Like, they don't even make names until, you know, 15, 20, fights in. So, you know, I don't take anything away from either one of those guys. And I think both of them, you know, again, without watching the fight,

you know, they may have the potential to go on through big things. We have no idea, really, at this point in that career. That's why boxers box so much so that you do know all this. Yeah. Yeah, and that's, again, well, I think that's what's going to slip up Jake Paul, because I can't think Jake Paul's going to suddenly start fighting the two and 20 boxers to build his resume.

He's just too big of a name to do that. He's going to have to fight ADS. He's going to fight KSI. And again, going to make him a lot of money, but it's not going to get him the experience he needs to be actually wants to be a championship level boxer. Yeah.

I guess that's, we'll kind of see how it goes. It's going to be hard to find 10 more guys like that. Yeah. Right? Like, it's like how, you know,

how quickly do you exhaust all these big fights that are actually big money fights until you do have. to go find, you know, like Tommy Fury, you know, he's only famous because he's a Tyson's brother and he was on a reality show or something. Yeah. You know, you found a regular eight-note guy, like how many people are going to pay to watch that? Exactly. And that's the problem.

He's kind of, he's already running, he's already starting to run the limit on guys that can fight at this point. You know what I mean? Like, there's only so many guys that are going to draw that crowd and they're not, they're not going to pay attention in fighting, you know, Joe, the gas station attendant who's got, you know, a three and ten boxing record. They're not, they don't care. That's not, you know, like they don't, that's not going to draw a crowd and it's not

going to pay them $30 million. Yeah, and so it'll be interesting to watch Seattle just pans out in the next few years because the one thing that Jake Paul won't have a shortage of is MMA fighters coming out of retirement or, you know, you know, big name MMA fighters coming out of contracts or out of retirement, whatever, they'll totally be willing to step in there with them. No, 100%. dude Mike Perry wants to do it.

Nate Diaz wants to do it. Again, there's going to be a long list of guys who are wanting to do that. And you know what? Anybody, every single NBA fighter in the world wants to do it. Yeah. You know, maybe like Connor McGregor or something. Like, even him. Like he would, you know, like, there's so much money involved that it's like any athlete in the world wants to do it.

If you got paid $10 million, would you fight Jake Paul? I mean, what kind of question is that, bro? I'd fight a fucking gorilla for $10 million. I've always said it, dude. I was like, I was like, give me $5 million. I'll like, Francis and Gano. It'll be one punch and I'll wake up in a hospital bed with $5 million richer. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, you might not have any brain cells left, but. I mean, listen, I've been knocked out before and you know what I remember about the knockout? Nothing. I remember getting here. I don't remember it. I don't remember. I know my head hurt a little bit after. but I really don't remember it.

It wasn't like I was like, oh, my God, I got, you know, I got kicked and I went out and I don't remember shit. I actually know a guy who was a, I don't know if he was a good MMA fighter. He was on his way to being a decent MMA fighter, probably like six and one, six and two, something like that. And I remember he got this shit beat out and so bad in a fight that he literally dropped his hand so the guy would knock him out and he wouldn't have to feel no more pain. That's, that's serious right now.

Yeah, he was like, I'm just done with this. Just put his hands down. The dude fucking wild him knocked him out. And he was like, I was a dude, why'd you drop her head? I just wanted to get the fuck out of there. He's like, this shit's hurting. I've seen, dude, I've seen a similar, I won't say names. I know who it is.

I won't say names. There was a fight where I saw a dude in a lower, I think it was a king of the cage card. He got mounted and the dude was just beating the brakes off him and mounts. And he literally put his arm up in the air and just basically put it on his chest, like begging him to arm bar him and he did he armed barred him and as soon as he went down he taps because he just wanted out of there but he's like I can't I'm not going to the referee's not stopping it so here's my arm dude and they took it and stopped a fight like that's it was just

like he it was so obvious he literally put his hand up on his chest and just stayed there and the guy just like kind of looked at and he just went for the arm bar he's literally giving him an arm bar yeah it's kind of a sign between the two right the guy on top's like oh you want me to take your arm okay yeah And he just fell into the arm bar and tapped immediately. I was just like, why does just tap to the strikes in at that point, dude? Like, you're just done anyways. Like, there's no shame in that.

Like, it would be done. Last question, we get out of here, Matt. You don't have to go deep on this because this is me not knowing boxing as well. On Saturday, on Sunday, they were talking about Devin Haney and Vaseloma Chinco. Is that a good fight? Oh, God. It's such a good fight, bro. May, I think they said May 20th, I think they said.

Oh, man, that's such good. There's a lot of good fights coming up. We got Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia, which I know you know about. I know that one. I know Lo Machinko. I'm not super familiar with Devin Haney, if I'm being honest. Oh, Devin Haney. He's been in Mayweather since he was like, I actually heard about him when he was like

15 or 16 years old. Some couple people from Mayweathers were like, dude, there's this kid. He's a fucking stud, man. And he's been mollin, while mawaping everybody, man, looking great. Not really a knockout guy, I guess. But he wouldn't have fought George Cambosis. in Australia, kind of got his name out there finally. That's the guy that beat Chiafamo Lopez.

But Devin Haney is the real deal. Obviously, we all know Lomachenko is too. But the fight that I'm most excited for is Plant Benavides. Oh, yeah, David Benavides, right? David Benavides and Caleb Plant. Yeah, I know Caleb played. Yeah, Caleb fought. Yeah, Caleb fought.

But, um, hello, Canelo. That's where everybody knows him from. Yep. Benavides is working his way up. If he beats Plant, I bet he gets, you know, if not Conello, you know, at least a really big fight next. And Benavides has been the truth and looks amazing. A great jab, great straight punches, a big guy. I think he beats Canello personally.

I think Caleb plants a tougher fight for him than Canello. So I'm excited to watch that one, man. Yeah, it's going to be good. Yeah, I heard that because I knew Devin Haney's name, but I wasn't as familiar with him. I knew he beat Camposus. I knew that, but I didn't watch the fights. So I knew he was good. You know, the thing with Lomachinko is he's beat these guys, these great, like he beat

Reagan Dile, like, you know, beat these amazing fighters so badly, you know, made, I think, three guys in a row, quit on the stool. How often do you hear about boxers quitting on the stool? Yeah. And Lomachinko just makes them look terrible. These were all three world champions, too. I can't remember if those two or three. But they were all world champions, you know, with legitimate titles,

like legitimate champions, quitting on the stool because they just can't touch them. They can't see where the punches are coming from. They're getting beat up. Now, Devin Haney hasn't done that to people. And Devin Haney's a lot bigger. So, boy, this is an interesting fight, man. You got to look into it. There's a lot of pieces to this puzzle.

it's a great matchup. Devin Haney's probably one of the most fundamentally soundboxers, I think, in the game right now. And he's kind of on his, this is kind of his coming out party. You know, he beat Cambosis, which was cool. But I don't think, you know, most people didn't have Cambosis up that big. Like, it was a huge upset when he beat Telfma Lopez, but it was, but no one really thought, I don't think most people thought too highly of Cambosis. And then Devin Haney went there and walked through him.

So this is kind of his coming out party. He beats Lomacheenko good. He's going to start on his way to be one of the next superstars in boxing. Yeah, when I first heard of Lomachinko was on the Mayweather Pachio undercard, he fought on that one, if I'm not mistaken. That was the first time I had seen him fight. And I was super impressed. He was like the first or second fight of the night because it was him.

And then Leo Santa Cruz, is that his name? He was on that card too. I remember because I was covering that fight with Mayweather and Pachial. I remember they fought on the undercard. And that was the first time I'd heard a Lomacheenko. I think at that point he was like 5 and O or something like that. And yeah, everyone was very high on him at that point. But like I said, I don't follow boxing as closely.

So I know the name Devin Haney. Don't follow him. Don't really know him. I know Lomachinko. I've watched Lomichenko. I know how good he is. So I had to throw that one out at you because I figured you'd be excited about that. I don't remember Lovichiko being on that undercard.

But if he was, it was because he had lost his second fight. So he came in. It was his second or third fight. he came in and started fighting champions straight out of the gate. Yeah, he was like he didn't, he didn't really have like warm up fights in his early part of his career. No, Orlando Salito was who he lost to.

And it might have been his first fight, as a matter of fact. He came out, started fighting champions straight out of the gate and got a lesson in what it is to be a professional versus an amateur. Yeah, it was, it was Mayweather Packie.

He fought in the undercard of that against Gamalier Rodriguez. it was two fights after the Orlando Salida fight. He'd be beating Gary Russell and some guy's name I'm not even going to try to pronounce. And then Rodriguez, he knocked him on the ninth round. That was the, that was the fight. So that was the first time I'd see him. He was three and one going into it and four won afterwards. Yep.

Okay, yeah. So Russell Walters was a legit champion. So what had happened was, you know, Loma got a real lesson in what professional boxing is versus amateur. So Lando Salito came in overweight, like did a lot of dirty moves, probably a lot of low shots, really bullied him around, like clenched him a lot, grabbed him, pushed him against the ropes, and, you know, just a lot of veteran, some people call it dirty, but, you know,

it was really just more veteran moves. Like he'd been, you know, had a long history of being a boxer. So, but since then, Lomacheco's looked untouched. And then he fought Lopez. And really, in my opinion, you know, Loma lost the fight, but he was by far the better fighter. Like he just didn't do anything for like the first eight or nine rounds. And then started.

I watched that fight. He just, he kind of was, he just didn't do anything early. Like he just kind of stood there. He didn't throw any punches. Yeah, just no urgency. Right. So then, but we've seen in the last few rounds, like he's by far the better boxer. Like he finally started picking it up.

and, you know, and finally started putting it on them. So anyway, so that's a completely different matchup than Devin Haney, though. Jalsimo comes in wild, those big, not really wild, but, you know, he comes at those big, hard punches, stands his ground really strong. Devin Haney is going to move around, be technical, be fundamental. It's going to be an interesting fight, man. And Cambosososos beat Lopez, and then Haney beat Cambosis twice, right? Exactly.

Okay. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, there you go. See? Learn something every day. Bokhton with Matt Brown. That's educational for me right there.

So, uh, all right. We're going to get out of here. Obviously, want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in each and every week to the fighter versus the rider. We'll be back next week with the fallout from UFC 285. I know I'll be watching Matt. I assume you'll be watching. And then Monday will break down John Jones's heavyweight debut. Cyril Gaon, of course, Valentina Shepchenko, uh, taking on Alexa Grosso.

Also, a great Walter. fight on that card jeff neil and shavkaa rakmanoff that's a great fight really looking for that one too so we'll break down everything on next monday show uh matt where can people check you out as you continue getting ready for your fight on may 13th uh if they want to show you support you already know man i i am the immortal on twitter and instagram mat the immortal brown on facebook um you got to give a shout out to my sponsor thank you to routine r oot i n e dot CO, personalized vitamins, taking your blood and your saliva and your DNA, building a multivitamin. That's not a generic store about vitamin, but something actually built for your body, your body type, your blood.

And thank you to all the guys that keep sending me positive messages and support. Watch out on May 13th. We're going to smash some faces. Love it. Love it. We'll be back next week. with another edition of the fighter versus the rider. Watched you at UFC 285 this week

and follow along over on the best website in the world, mMAfighting.com, and we'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line.

But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.