MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer | Anthony Smith On Media Backlash From Other Fighters: ‘I Get Paid a Lot of Money to Just Run My Mouth And Give My Opinion’

Episode Date: November 30, 2021

Former UFC title challenger Anthony Smith joins the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer as co-host to discuss a number of subjects including his return from an injured knee and the concern that he may end up as the odd man out at light heavyweight now that new champion Glover Teixeira is expected to face Jiri Prochazka and the possibility that Jan Blachowicz may take on Aleksandar Rakic. Smith will also give his thoughts on the best light heavyweight in the sport and whether or not Corey Anderson has a legitimate claim to that title considering he holds a dominant win over Teixeira in the UFC. Smith also details his own experiences dealing with backlash from other fighters as an analyst when he’s asked to give his opinion on fights or make picks and predictions. All this and much more on episode 14 of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Follow Anthony Smith @lionheartsmith Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to another edition of The Fighter versus the Writer. I am your host, as always, I am Damon Martin. And today I am proud to welcome and a good friend of mine, and he is one of the top light heavyweights in the sport. First time co-hosts in the show with me, which I'm pretty excited about. Anthony Smith, Anthony, how are you? Good, man.

I'm glad we could finally make this work and get rocking and rolling. It's been a while. Absolutely. You're one of the busiest guys to the sport, man. Beyond your own fight career, you got, you know, you're serious. show you're doing the analysis for the UFC. I assume you're not a guy who gets a lot of days off. No, no, there's not a lot of days off. I actually got a couple days off coming up. I'm going to going back to New York City again. We're going to take the kids to see the tree lighting and Rockefeller

Center. So I got a couple days off coming up, but I'm absolutely making up for it today. I got hanging out with you right now. And then later on, I'm hanging out with filling in for Misha Tate on on Renee, her and Renee's show on Sirius XM. So that should be a lot of fun. Awesome, awesome. Well, lots to talk about it, but let's start off on a personal note. I know last time we heard from you, you did the MMA hour and you were talking about dealing with your knee injury and coming back in 2022. Let me just ask. I mean, that was a staff infection. I know those things are no jokes. So how is the knee? How are you feeling? It's good, man. We're going through the physical therapy part. We got through the injury part of it. We got through the infection.

And now we've got to rehab it. You know, since September, until just three or four weeks ago, I was on crutches or limping or a cane or whatever. So my leg has kind of had a vacation for a while. So we've got to get that thing fired back up and, you know, just get the rehab part of it going, get it strong again. and get back to fighting. I would suspect if I needed to start a camp, I could probably start one in, I don't know, six to eight weeks.

I'd probably be ready to start a training camp. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously when you're dealing with an injury like that, especially where I don't know, you tell me, you're a guy, and I know we know this from your history, you're a guy who always steps up when you're needed. But at the same time, where you're at the division, you know you're probably one went away from a title shot.

You could argue you could get right in there right away, but we know the landscape of light heavyway. But I don't know, because I know you're not a cautious guy, but when you're dealing with an knee injury, like do you have to be a little bit, like do you have to be a little bit cautious, especially if you're getting, let's say a rematch with rackets or you get Jan Bolhovic?

Like you can't mess around at that, right? No, no, I can't. Because of where I'm at in the division, the next fight is a big fight. And it's not even so much the implications or the title or any of that stuff. They're just dangerous dudes. If you're going to be in there with a guy,

like Janbovich or rackets or any of those guys in the top five or the top 10 for that matter. You got to be healthy. I can't go in there with a bad wheel and expect that sometimes you got to check your own ego. Set your arrogance to the side and know that none of those guys are going to be easy nights out when you're 100%. So I need to make sure that I'm ready. I'll fight anybody. I don't care who it is, but I got to get healthy first. Yeah, I know you mentioned before that, you know, the rackage fight was the one you wanted.

And again, unfortunately, you weren't able to fight in December. Now, it looks like he's not going to fight in December either. We know that, you know, it looks like it's going to be Glover and Yuri Prohasker is going to be the next title fight. You know, a couple other guys out there. When you're kind of on the sidelines a little bit, and you're not really on the sidelines, because, again, you do the analysis thing, you do your own show? So, of course, these topics are going to come up. But do you put it out of your mind in terms of who it would be next?

I know you mentioned, you know, Blahovich is a fight. you'd be interested in. I'm sure you'd still like to get the, the rackets fight back. But when you're waiting, knowing you're still like, let's say two or three months away from fighting again, like, do you pay attention to the lay of the land of division? Or do you just have to wait and say, you know what, I'll look at it when I'm ready to fight? No, man, you know me. I'm a nerd. I'm, I'm, I'm in it. You know, I'm trying to, I mean, everyone's politicking right now. Everyone's trying to get the fight that they want. Unfortunately, I think sometimes I get left out in the cold because I'm pretty much, I'm indifferent. I don't really care.

Personally, I want the rackage fight. You know what I mean? I want to get that one back. I want to get Rackich back. I want to get the Glover fight back. Career trajectory-wise, I think the Blahovic fight is the better fight. Just because he's, you know, that guarantees your next title shot. That guarantee, listen, I got a lot of respect to Alexander Rackich and what he's done. And I have a lot of respect for his skills and abilities, but he's not that well liked. He's not the UFC's favorite guy. So beating him is kind of its own reward for me personally,

because I'm not sure how highly people, you know, the powers of be would look up on that win because he's not super exciting for as big of an athlete as he is and as impressive as his physique is. It doesn't fight like that. so he doesn't have a fan appealing style. The people in his home country love the hell out of that guy, but everyone else can kind of take and relieve him.

So I think the win over Blahovic looks better. I think the Rackich win makes me feel better. So I don't know. You know, I'm kind of indifference. I'm afraid that because I'm indifferent, I'm going to get left out in the cold. It'd be a real shitty deal if Yuri Prohaska gets the title shot, and then Rackich and Balovich fight each other.

And then that kind of leaves me kind of sitting around with my hands out. Yeah. Yeah, it's unfortunate, you know, again, the timing of it all, you know what I mean? And listen, that's the sport. We know that's how the sport works. You get injured. You deal with something and things fall apart. But we don't know. I mean, that's the good thing. We don't know what's going on right now. I mean, they haven't officially booked Yuri and Glover for the, you know, we kind of assume that's going to be the fight. But we don't know anything. And you know as well as I do. Nothing is for sure until the contracts are signed and you're in the cage because I know, I know from experience, there's a fight like, ooh, this fight's happening. And then I've talk to the fighters. They're like, what? I haven't been offered that fight yet. So we don't know the lay of the land just yet. No, no, not yet. And although I am a little bit on the sidelines, none of those guys are like in a huge rush to fight. So, you know, as funny as it is, you know, I could have three surgeries, rehab a knee injury and still come back and take a fight before any of those guys are ready to fight. So that's just, that's just how the kind of the landscape of the sport is. It used to be everyone wants to fight as much as possible. That's

how I am. But that's just not how it is. So Glover's probably not going to fight for a while. I've seen some interviews where Prohaska was talking about if he had to wait for any amount of time, he was going to take a fight himself. Rackage doesn't like to fight, you know, like he doesn't fight that often. I know for a fact, he's turned down several fights since his last fight with Tiago Santos. So I don't know. You know, it would be super unfortunate if Rackich kind of gets to sit around, turn down the fights that he doesn't like, and then gets the biggest fight available in the division. That would hurt my feelings, to be honest with you, especially being a guy who takes every single fight offered in the ones that nobody wants. Nobody wants to fight Ryan'span.

That's just a, it's a tough out. You know what I mean? Like he's, he's just tough. Whether you think that you're better than him in every aspect of the game, he's got, you know, he has that equalizer right hand that just changes the whole, the whole trajectory of a fight. Jimmy crude is not a fun fight. There's nothing fun about that dude. There's nothing fun preparing for him. And I mean that with the utmost respect because of how tough he is. So, and no one wants to fight Devin Clark because it's just a tough fight for no reason.

You don't get a lot out of it and it's tough as dude. So as much as my feelings and the fans and listeners and people out there don't give a shit how I feel, it would suck to see guys rewarded with huge opportunities and have title fight implications. attached to those opportunities and not do the things that I've done. So that, you know, that sucks. But we'll just have to see what happens, man. We'll just have to wait and see it. It's a waiting game and I'm not real good at the waiting part.

I understand that. Let me shift gears a little to talk about the light heavyweight division. And this is, you know, this is an opinionated question. And of course, you're in the UFC. You fought UFC level talent. But right now, there is at least a little bit of a debate as far as like the whole who is the best light heavyweight in the sport right now. Of course, Glover is the champion. Incredible winner of Yon Blahovic, but the other guy out there, and I know, you know, you've seen

the argument being made, Corey Anderson saying, hey, listen, I beat Glover pretty dominantly. And he did. Credit to Corey Anderson, he absolutely did. But then he also lost to Yon in his last show of sea fight. Now, since then, of course, Corey's won three in a row or four in a row. Of course, a very quick, you know, minute win over Ryan Bader, which is still an impressive win. me personally, you know, I think Corey is phenomenal. And the problem is like when you're in Bellator, you're in PFL, you're in other organizations, they can have great talent, but eventually you run out of that top talent. And then when you're beating other guys, so to speak, and the UFC's got nine, ten,

12 guys deep in a division, it's harder to put a guy at the top of the sport. So I'm kind of curious, you're, I mean, I assume, you know, because you fought Glover, you know how good he is and the run he's on right now. It's hard not to make him and consider him. And I don't even know if it matters, but there is, I mean, listen, I know every fighter, every fighter I've ever talked to somewhere inside. They, you know, there's a certain bit of pride in being called the best guy in the world. I don't know.

Where do you fall in this argument? Is it easy just to say it's Glover and that's it? That's conversation is over or does Corey have a legit argument? Well, it's tough to just say it's Glover and that's it. Because Corey doesn't have that argument. but the guy the Glover just beat fairly handedly, fairly easily, just starched Corey Henderson. So it's it's tough for Corey to have that argument. It was way harder for him to have that argument before, before Yon Belhovers lost that title.

Before Glover lost the title, Corey Anderson didn't have any argument in that at all because the best guy in the world knocked you out. So he has an argument. I won't deny that. I think that his argument is less, his argument lays very heavy in the fact that he's doing what he's doing right now in Bellator. That's kind of the basis of his argument. Look what I'm doing.

Look what I've done recently. And that doesn't really hold a lot of water right now because you weren't doing that in the UFC. So I have a lot of respect to Corey Anderson in his game. And if I was him, I would definitely probably be saying the same thing with a win over Glover to Cher. But he didn't beat the Glover to Share that's doing what. he's doing right now. He beat a, he beat just a Glover that was kind of unmotivated and just showing up

for paychecks. He also forgets to mention that he came in super short notice on that fight. So Glover wasn't preparing for Corey Anderson for an entire training camp. So, you know, I, I don't know who the best guy in the world is right now. I think light heavyweight's pretty interesting right now because it could be anybody. I think there's a really interesting round robin that could happen at the top of the division in the UFC right now. Glover can beat anybody at any point in time.

I personally really, really love Yuri Prohaska's style. I love how he fights. I love his attitude towards the fight game. I love his approach. I love everything about that guy's game. It's super exciting. It's fun to watch. I would have a blast fighting that guy.

And I would have even more fun doing a training camp, preparing for it. I think that there's just a lot of fun shit attached to Yuri Prohaska. I also think Glover Cheshire beats him. I would go out on a limb and say most, if they fought 10 times, I bet Glover wins seven of those. Just because of his fundamentals, how he,

how, how he, if Dominic Reyes can take you down and mount you in a fight, I would venture to guess Glover DeSherr is going to have no problem doing that. So he's a little bit wild. He's not super defensive. Glover, obviously, he put me down.

He put Tiago Santos down. He put, and Jan Blahovitch down, that dude has a nasty left hand that I didn't have any respect for until it hit me right in the face. So I think that those two guys, could Yuri win for sure.

He could definitely catch Glover. He could definitely overwhelm him and kind of have his funky style and win. I also think rackage can be either one of those guys on any given day. Isn't going to be super exciting, unlikely. But can he win and went on a judge's scorecard to land a big shot and, you know,

attack someone's leg and whatever, for sure? and I absolutely believe that I can beat any of those guys on any given day. So I think that if you look at the top five in the UFC, any of any of us could end up being the champion on any given day. I don't think you can say that in Delatorre. I think that there's, I think that Cory Anderson is probably the best light heavyweight in Belator. I don't think there's a whole lot of argument there,

but he wasn't the best light heavyweight in the UFC. So I think that that's, I think if you throw Corey Anderson into that mix with me, Yon, Yuri Glover and you start mixing us around I don't think that he can beat most of us

I just don't Yeah I think Corey You know And I'll love to Ryan Bader All love to Ryan Bader I really really like that guy personally Like as a person I like that guy a lot

He has had some issues with his chin lately Corey Anderson has never known to be a big hitter Which is kind of always been the knock on him We always know what Corey Anderson's very good at He's fantastic wrestler His cardio is through the goddamn roof he has fantastic top pressure. He's a good wrestler.

He doesn't lose positions a lot. And he's willing to wrestle. He'll spam take downs until he gets one. Once he gets one, you're probably not getting back up. But the problem was no one respected striking. No one ever has because they haven't had to. He's not he's not cracking.

He's not that guy. So if you take everyone in the top five of the UFC and you throw Corey Anderson in there, who's the guy that stands out with the biggest hole in this game? It's Corey Anderson and it's absolutely striking. So the fact that he's knocking guys out in Belator, I think has a says more about the competition and less about the fight. Yeah, I think, I think Corey, you know,

can strengthen his argument if he goes out there and if, let's just say he, you know, dominates and beats a guy like Vadim Nimcoff. I have a tremendous amount of respect for me, Vadim Kna Kov. Then I'll shut up. Then I'll shut up. But, but also there's also one other fight.

If he can eventually get to Anthony Rumble Johnson. If he could beat Rumble, that's a statement when Rumble is still a monster, you know, for all, you know, you look at his record, you look at his resume, he's still a monster. The problem is, and I've said this before, after that, you've run out of guys, you know, you've run out of guys.

If Glover beats Yeri, let's say he does what you believe he'll do, it'll beat Yeri. Again, I don't know that there's a win you can get in Bellator that's going to match that. You know, as much as I respect Rumble, as much as I respect Nimcoff, is that a bigger win than Pahaska, the run he's on right now, especially when you think about, you know, he had a fight with Nimcoff back in the day. I mean, he was Nimcoff's last loss. So, you know, I think that's the problem.

And kind of a wider conversation is like there's, I think there's guys talent-wise and other organizations who can make arguments about being the quote-unquote best in a weight class. Like I would argue that A.J. McKee, talent-wise, is as good at featherweight as anybody in the world right now. The problem is, is that Alexander Volcanowski exists. Max Holloway exists. And these guys have deeper resumes against what we, I think we all agree is better overall talent. Patricio Bibble is a monster beating him in 70 seconds or whatever was, the great win. Where do you go from there? You know what I mean? Like his biggest win, he just got.

He just got his biggest win. No offense whatsoever to other guys out there. I think there's, you know, very talented featherweights and bellator. He's got nowhere else to go to what you can say, well, that's better. That's a better win than what Volcanowski just did to Brian Ortega. No, it's not. Max Holloway when he just did to Ia Rodriguez. And that's like, I know there's always this UFC, everyone says this UFC bias.

The UFC biases is that there's more talented fighters in the UFC. It's not a knock on Bellator or PFL or one championship, any of these organizations. I've argued, I think Adriana Marius, and we won't get into the whole weight class discussion. But I think when you knock out Demetrius Johnson, the way he did, you can argue he is the best flyweight in the sport right now. But eventually, if he doesn't fight Demetri's like four more times, who's he going to fight that's going to match what Brandon Marino who could do a flyweight? You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's not biased. Yeah, it's absolutely, it's death.

It's death. Well, if you look at it, just to take AJ McKee or even Corey Anderson for that matter, if Cory Anderson beats Nemcoff and then, and then AJ McKee, you know, he's got the best win he's probably going to get right now. The difference with the guys in the UFC and the guys in Bellator and whatever, and again, this isn't me knocking on the other organizations. I love the fact that they exist. I love, I watch them all. I love it. But the guys in the UFC, once they get that win, it doesn't. get any easier. You just have more guys like that lined up in front of you. So that's the problem. There isn't five more Nemcobs or guys at his level for Corey Anderson to fight. So as much as we can

play this MMA math game and say, well, Corey Anderson be Glover, Glover be Yon, Yon be Corey. The fact is that after those things happened, Corey is now somewhere else doing, trying to do the same thing. Glover has fought me and then Tiago Santos. And then he's, He's fought John Blahovic. And he, you know, I mean, like in that run, he's done, he fought Corey and then went on and beat better guys than Corey. So I just, I think it's such a tough argument to have. And especially when he went the opposite direction, of course, the guys from Belator, if they wanted

to, you could fight out their deals and come over the UFC and they can prove that. Corey Anderson went the opposite direction. It's hard to go the opposite direction, leave the UFC, go to Belator and then try to convince everyone that you're the best light, heavyweight in the world. and I forgot about Nemcoff. Like, that guy, he could be the best light heavyweight in the world. I got a lot of respect for that guy. He's the one out there that's not in the UFC that makes, that gives me pause enough to say that dude's tough.

Like that's a tough out. That's a tough night. And he could be, he's that guy you could throw in the mix with the rest of us in the top five. And he's the guy that be like, you know, he could beat any of us. you know, if he has a good day and, and we don't, that guy could, could take any of us out for sure. He's tough. Yeah. Yeah. It's a way. I got a lot of respect for him. Sorry to cut you. Sorry to cut you off. I got a lot of respect for him after his last fight. Did you see his last fight? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a battle. It was a good fight. So that guy, uh, I bring,

I bring him in periodically for my training camps. He is so goddamn tough. Dude is an absolute monster. we have like a kind of a sister gym in St. Louis, and that's where he trains at. So I brought him in for Guffs of Sin. I brought him in for maybe rackage. He's super tough, man. So just for Nemcoff to be able to take that big shot, that dude's hit me and made me wonder what day it was before.

So for him to take that shot and then outgraple him the way he does, he's so strong. That was, that was, and I don't know if he's going to get a lot of love for that one. But just because personally, I know how tough that guy is. that was a good one. Yeah. Yeah, it's like I said, and this is the eternal argument.

I mean, I've been around the sport long enough to know and to remember when we used to argue UFC versus pride. Who is the best heavyweight? Who is the best light heavyweight? And you know, at the end of the day, it's a fun argument. You know, that's all it really is is an argument. And for Corey Anderson, anyone else, like he went to Bellatory saying he's getting paid a lot of money. He's happy. Good for him. Like, that's all that matters.

You know what I mean? He's providing for his family. These are all fun arguments to have. We all like to have them. I mean, that's just part of the sport. Part of the fun of the sport is arguing. over who is the best in this weight class or that weight class or whatever. But at the end of the day, you know, it's just an argument.

It's just like the whole pound for pound debate. Do I like having that debate? Sure, it's fun. Does it really matter at the end of the day who I say is number one pound for pound or who you say is number one pound for pound? No, it's just a fun argument to have, you know what I mean? Like it's just, it's a fun conversation to have. It's just like rating, like right now you've seen some people coming out saying is

Kamar Usman, the greatest welterweight of all time compared to George St. Pierre. And a lot of people would say, you're crazy and even make that argument because considering George's resume. And then you say, well, look at what Kamar is doing, the guys, you know, beating guys, you know, and you could argue maybe better talent or beating them more dominantly

when you talk about knocking out George Mazadol or knocking out Gilbert and things like that. But at the end of it still, we don't know. George is retired. He's 40 years old. He's retired. He's not coming back. We're not going to see that fight.

So it's just an argument to be had. There's no right or wrong answer. Like, I don't think you can 100% definitively say, this guy's won. There's no chance that Kamar Usma could be better than George or vice versa. The George can be better than Kamarro because they're not going to fight. So it really doesn't matter.

No. And with those two guys, it's funny that you brought that one up. I always have a really hard time even having that argument because I just have so much respect for both of those guys and their separate careers that they had. It's always unfortunate that like we're never going to get those two guys in their prime in an octagon together.

That's always kind of sad to me. But I have a hard time even having that argument. I'll have the pound for pound debate. I'll have the greatest of all time debate. But like the greatest welterweight of all time, sometimes I always feel like, like let's just leave that one alone. I don't even want to have it because I feel if I say that George St. Pierre is the best welterweight of all time, I feel like even saying that is discrediting what Kamar Usman has done

and been able to do. It's almost like it's not giving him enough credit by saying that. But then if I say it's Usman, I feel like I'm discrediting George St. Pierre. So I don't know if that's that I just have so much respect for those guys and such a fan of them both that I can't, I can't set that aside. I can't set my own personal feelings about those guys aside to have that argument. But sometimes I just, I feel like maybe we just leave that one alone and let those guys kind of be legends aside from each other.

Yeah, it's funny because I think what makes that one really interesting is because we were probably about two, within two years of them crossing paths. Like they just missed each other. Like they just missed each other. Like when George beat Bispin to become middleweight champion, that was right, you know, Oussman was right there getting on his run, getting ready to go fight a year later. He's fighting for the, he's a welterweight champion. So it's like, I think that's what makes that one interesting because they were right

there. They were just about to cross paths. And at this point, George was clearly retired. He's not coming back. And I think everyone knows that. I bet they're both okay with that too. No, I think they are too. I bet if you asked them,

what does George have to prove? Yeah, yeah. I would imagine that neither one of them are probably too upset that they never fought. I'm sure that like deep down there's probably some some real, you know, some fun ego stuff like man, and I bet I could beat that guy.

Or, and you've heard Usman say a bunch of times he thinks he could be George St. Pierre and, but I bet that like all the bullshit in the interviews and all the stuff you're supposed to say aside, I bet they're both cool with the fact that like, know what, he had his day, I'm having mine, or vice versa. You know, St. Pierre is probably saying, like, I had my time, let him have his.

It's a fun argument, but I bet they're okay with it not happening. Yeah. Another big fight that was just announced this past weekend that we saw was the Lightway Division. Looks like it's now shaken out. We've got a big fight in February between Islam Makachev and Benil Darius, two guys on huge win streaks, beating in February. You have to assume the winner of that will get a title shot, which we all kind of assume now clears the way for Justin Gagie to get the next title shot against the winner of Dustin Porre and Charles Olivera.

Again, we can argue all day. I think, like, the way they did this, the way it played out, and there's no perfect right or wrong answer. But I think this went the right way. Like, I think the UFC made the right choices making these matchups. There are times when Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard or Dana or Hunter, you know, they announce a fight, they make a fight. and I'm like, what, why? Why is this happening? But this time they got it right, in my opinion.

Like when you look at the lay of the land and lightweight, when you look at what Gaichi just did to Chandler, and then you got the potential of a rematch with Porre, that first fight was incredible. Or, and I think a lot of people are really counting out Charles Olivera, which I think is a huge mistake. It's crazy. Charles Olivera and Gaichy,

you think of how crazy that fight would be. And then you get right on deck with Daryush and Mokachev, which if there's an argument to be made against Mokachev, for his whatever's, you know, seven, eight, nine fight win streak he's on. He hasn't fought a lot of top guys. I mean, yes, he just beat Dan Hooker pretty dominantly, but Dan Hooker is, you know, the latter part of the top 10, let's say. He hasn't beaten those established top five guys yet.

He beats Darius. He has. So I think this was the right move. And now, you know, going into December, we're going to be talking about Pori and Oliver, but we can't lie and say that they're not going to have Gachy, you know, planted right there in the front row, you know, just look at the stake on the winner. I can argue all day about like did they make the right move with this fight that fight. I think right now as good as lightweight is, I think this was the perfect bit of matchmaking.

No, I totally agree with you, man. I really like the Daryush Makachov fight too. I think, you know, on my own show, I wouldn't say that I've criticized Islam, but I've been, I've pumped the brakes on him a little bit. And it's not any, there's nothing he's doing wrong. There's nothing that he has no holes in his game. There's nothing personally about him. except for the fact he just hasn't,

he doesn't have that one, I don't know, that one real sexy win. And I think a lot of people thought Hooker was going to be that. But again, I like Dan Hooker a lot, but he's not known for being a wrestler or a crazy jiu-jitsu guy. Darius absolutely is. If Islam goes in there and has any kind of dominant performance against Darius, especially if he's, you know,

dominant on the ground, I think that there's not going to have, there's not going to be anyone that's going to have an argument against him getting a title shot. I think this is also an opportunity for Darius to get to get that one sexy win, that one win over the guy that's got to hype. You know what I mean? Like he's very quiet. He kind of sits back.

He's always had really, really fun fights. He's exciting. He's dangerous everywhere. But he just, I think he was lacking that one, I don't know, that one super hype guy. You know what I mean? The one that everyone's excited about, you've got to be able to beat that guy. So I think it's great for both of them. I think they both deserve that, that opportunity.

And like you said, I think both of them get the title shot. I'm happy, Gachie, you know, kind of got what you wanted and gets that opportunity. And I think it's an easy decision for the UFC to make, given the title fight that's going on. It doesn't matter who wins. Justin Gachie versus either of those guys is a Pavey View Barn Burner. So that puts Justin Gage in a really, really awesome position. I mean. Yeah. And I think Gachie, you know, Gachie has, you know, I think he's improved his game and changed his game enough, you know, since losing the Porre, you look at the improvements he's made. Yeah, he had

the loss to Khabib, who didn't lose to Khab, you know what I mean? Like, there's no shame in losing to that guy. And, you know, I mean, there are two of the, I think two of the three judges in that fight gave Gachie the first round in that fight. And you've heard Kabeb say he's never been hit as hard. You know, the leg kicks are real, all the things. So, you know, Gachis is as tough as they come. But I still think it's kind of, like I said, don't get me wrong. I 100% would love to see Gai Chi Porriet too. That first fight was incredible.

One of the greatest fights of all time for the three rounds that last, the three plus rounds that lasted. But I still think it's wild that so many people are counting out Charles Olivaara, what this guy's been through, this guy, the run he's on, to sit there and just say he has no chance against Dust of Porre. And I, you know, you will not find a bigger Dust of Porre fan in this sport than me. I love that guy. Great dude.

and a freaking incredible fire. So you will not find a bigger fan of Dustin Pori to me. But to count out Charles Oliver and just say, we're looking at Gaichi Porri too. I think it's a little wild. I think it's a little premature to sit here and just say that Porre is just going to roll through Charles Olivera. Well, that's, and that's just not happening.

And I think it's good. I don't know if you've seen it on Twitter. Someone was saying something about Counting out Charles Olivera. And like, for whatever reason, Dustin Porre, you know, pops up in the comments. and was like, I'm not. Like he's absolutely not. His team is very, very smart.

So fortunately, I don't think Dustin Poirier is underestimating him or his team. So I think to underestimate and just write off a guy like Charles Oliver, I mean, especially, look how many shots Gachi put on Michael Chandler. Charles Elver changed Michael Chandler's entire night with one shot. I mean, he's not just the grappler anymore. It's not just the jiu-jitsu guy that strikes him to take. It's not him anymore. I mean, Gachy was able to put Chandler down and, and hurt him pretty badly.

But Chandler got right back up and took every shot that Gagey threw after that. So I think if you just look at that, that Charles Oliver was able to land one shot, put Michael Chandler down, and he never got back up again. I think that that shows a lot to his evolution in his game. And there's, there's always been this weird juju that comes with being the champion. It's almost like guys win the title. and they get better. And I think some of that is the confidence that comes along with that.

I think that there's an arrogance and just a weird confidence to come with that. And it's cool watching guys elevate their game once they realize that the entire world is chasing them now. Every single guy in that weight class is you got a target on your back. So I think there's a little bit of there's some confidence. I think there's some fear knowing that everyone's chasing you. And it just pushes you to do whatever you can do to, to stay ahead.

So I suspect we're going to see a better Charles Olivera versus Dustin Porey than we've ever seen. Yeah, it's crazy. It's an embarrassment of riches and lightweight because then you look at Chandler and I know he's been angling for it. And I know your best friend, the guy you trade text messages with every day,

Connor McGregor, when he comes back, Connor and Michael Chandler, like why not? Again, I know, if Porey loses to Oliver, we could argue and say maybe they do a third match with Connor

and I'm sure Dustin would take the big paycheck because why not? But I mean, I think, again, you got to kind of set up perfectly. Chandler's not going to fight for a few months because he just went through a freaking war with Justin Gachey and I don't think he should rush to come back. You know, Connor's saying I can get back into sparring in April.

Okay, let's say, you know, May, June, July. That would be a great fight. And again, what's wrong with that? Chandler and McGregor, how's that not a great fight, you know? And again, it's just an embarrassment of riches of lightweight. That division is so good. Like, you could match any of those guys up against each other and you really couldn't argue about it.

and I think right now it kind of worked out well. Do you get, you know, let's say you get Chandler McGregor next year. You get Malkachev, Daryush's the number one contender. You get Gathey waiting in the wings. I mean, again, it's an embarrassment of riches. Yeah, it is, man. There's a lot of good fights coming up. And, you know, as much as Connor really likes me.

I like the Chandler. He's got some good opportunities at lightweight coming up. You like the Chandler fight is always there. The Porier fight, if he loses $1,000. Oliver is absolutely there. You know, I'm sure that we could, we could come up with a bunch of really juicy fights at lightweight that would make sense for Connor.

I just don't think it's a title fight as much as he thinks that it is. And, you know, the way he's competing right now, there's not a lot of guys in the top of the division that, that you could just say, like, okay, Connor absolutely smokes that guy. There's none of those. So the lightweight division is more exciting now than it's ever been. And it's because Khabibh isn't there. That's true.

100% true. Last thing, before I get you out of hand, this is subject that's come up a lot. And I bring this up, you know, kind of joking about the Connor thing. But, you know, of course, you have your own show. And on your show, when you're on serious, you are asked for your opinion. And, you know, a lot of your opinions end up in headlines. And we've had this conversation off the air about how this happens.

People ask you, what do you think about Connor? we think about Conner's comments. What do you think about John Jones? What do you think about his comments? We think about these comments. And I saw an interview recently with Paul Felder. Paul is, of course, transitioned into commentary full time since retiring.

And he said that, you know, it does, you know, it does bother him when fighters say I'm being biased against you or you had a comment that I didn't like. We saw his bit of war words with Marvin Vittori, you know, a few weeks back. And, you know, he said something that, you know, it's kind of like the, you know, you're the thing you say you're not supposed to say, but he's like, he says something to the effect of the fighters are a little over-sensitive, and so he has to, like, weigh that because he's like, it bothered me when I fought,

like, somebody would say something about me in commentary, and I'd get upset. It would bother me the whole day. I'm curious, like, where are you balanced that, Anthony? Because you're paid to give your opinion. Your employer's at Syria give you a paycheck, not just to do interviews, and, of course, you bring a perspective as a fighter, but you're asked for your opinion. When you're doing analysis for the UFC, when you sit in that broadcaster's,

booth and you're doing commentary, you're doing analysis, part of analysis is giving your opinion. What do you think of this match? Who wins? You know, just who wins? Because I know from a personal standpoint, I'm not going to call anybody out, just as a journalist, I've had fighters message me after making a prediction saying, why did you pick against me? Like, it's personal.

It's never personal. No idea. I've had fighters refuse to do interviews with me because I've picked against them, which is wild to me. But where do you balance it? because you're still, you're very much obviously one of the top guys in your division, but you are a paid analyst. Like how do you balance that in your own mind when you're asked for your opinion?

Yeah, it's, it's really tough, man. It's because again, I know how Felder feels because I've gotten pissed off about it before, too. Like, I don't know if you see my last press conference or maybe it was the, it might have been the Jimmy Crew fight, but I seen like, MMA junkie did something where like all the writers make predictions on the fight. and I could not believe that John Morgan picked against me. Like, I've known John Morgan forever and like when I was on the regional scene. So then that's the first thing I said when I got to the post fight press conference.

Like, damn, John, what the fuck was that? Like, you know, so like I gave him a bunch of shit. But like since I've been on the analyst and broadcasting side, I've taken it a lot less personal because at the end of the day, I don't make the fights. I don't book those fights. And then I stand up there on ESPN in front of a board. with, you know, if it's a main card, there's five guys or five fights with 10 fighters, there's a good chance that I know a good chunk of those guys. So I try to, I don't know, I've had people get mad at me before it and say like,

man, why did you pick against me? Like, honestly, sometimes I don't know who's going to win the fight. I know that I'm supposed to tell you guys that here's what's going to happen because I'm this genius and I know what I'm talking about. It's so hard to predict fights. Like unless there's massive mismatches, it's really hard to pick fights because everyone in the UFC is so damn good. And I don't know how someone's going to feel when they wake up in the morning.

Maybe they feel like shit and they're going to fight anyways. I don't know that. I don't like what I can tell you as an analyst, I can tell you where this person's good, where they maybe have some deficiencies. I can tell you what they need to do to be successful and I can tell you what's going to happen if they don't. But I can't tell you if they're going to do those things. That's up to them. You know what I mean?

like and I and I can't tell you if fighter B is going to take advantage of fighter A's deficiencies. I can tell you if he does he'll probably win, but I don't know if he's going to. So a lot of times it's a lot of guesswork. Like my analysis is always 100% really how I feel. A lot of times the picks, I don't actually know. And if I have a guy that's, you know, that I train with every single day with Mark Montoya, like you really think I'm going to stand up on ESPN and tell the whole world I think he's going to lose. That's not going to happen. So if you're against one of those guys, don't be

mad at me about that. Like, you got to know that there's some locker room shit going on there. So my analysis will be factual, at least factual to how I actually feel. But the picks are tough. So there's that part of it. And it's so weird how I've seen comments and gotten tagged and stuff where people actually say, why is Anthony Smith just up there running his mouth all the time? it is it is the weirdest comment to me when people say that or like you'll see or I'll hear things like from other gyms where guys all pissed off and mad about what I said like he's always up there talking shit like I don't know if you guys know this I get paid a lot of money to just run my mouth and give my opinion that's why I'm up there running my mouth all the time like that's literally my job like

I'm paid to answer the questions that people ask me that's so I don't I don't know what they expect. Like, I'm not going to bullshit you. I'm not going to be, you know, like, and I've always told fighters, like, you guys have an issue with something that I say, I'm an open book, man. If you want to come talk about it, I'll tell you why I said it. And I'll give you my analysis. And I'll, like, text me. I'll tell you. Here's a perfect example. Cynthia Calvio. I don't remember who she fought. She fought to a draw, though. And I ended up picking against her. But in my analysis, I said, I think Cynthia's going to dominate here. And I think this other girl's going to dominate here. And I don't know who's going to be the more dominant out of those two things,

but this is what I, that's, that's my, my breakdown. This is where she's going to do great and this is where she's not. The fight happens. It happened exactly as the way that I said it was going to. Cynthia was dominant where I said she was going to be. The other girl was dominant where I said she was going to be. And then they fought to a draw. So other than my pick, I was 100% right. So then Cynthia catches me in the lobby afterwards. I don't remember where I want to say it was Tampa maybe. And she's all pissed. She was like, you picked against me.

And I was like, listen, to be honest with you, everything I said was going to happen. Actually did happen. I'm sorry I picked against you. I just, at that point,

I thought it was so close. It's flipped a coin. And then recently, she just fought. And I said a lot of nice things about her because I still have a lot of belief in Cynthia Calvia. I think she just had a kind of a tough run of it lately.

And it was cool. Like she reached out and said, hey, thank you for the things you said. Like, but at the same time, a couple years ago, you were super pissed at me.

So like that's kind of how the fight game goes. It's it's one second you're going to piss people off. And in, but when they're on the other side of it, they don't mind so much. So it is a really tough balance man. I know I'm kind of rambling here, but I don't ever want fighters to think that there's there. There's ever anything personal. I've had beast with guys or guys into my division. And I've, I've been very honest about my analysis of their, of their games and very complimentary.

I've worked John Jones events before, after we fought, and you never heard me say a negative thing about John Jones. I keep it very, very based on their fight game. So when you're up there at the desk, though, you do have a, I don't know, a moment where you know that you're going to say something that's going to piss someone off, and it does kind of suck because you're like, I mean, this is my job, and I have to be very honest with the people that are trusting me to be honest with them, you know, on the other side of the screen.

But sometimes you do kind of walk through groups of fighters. Like, damn, I don't know who I said something about. Well, it's funny because- I piss off in this group. Even going back, like I had, last week I had James Krauss on, and I had done some stuff with James during the ultimate fighter a few years ago. And I told him, this was when I was at Fox. And I said, James, you should be doing analysis.

You're great at this. Like, he knows the sport. I was like, man, you're a good mind for this. And, of course, now he's coaching so he really can't do the analysis stuff. But he was a really good mind for it. And there's a reason, even before you did the UFC, analyst stuff. We did interviews going back years. And I'd ask your opinion of stuff because you're well spoken about it. You know the sport. You actually follow the sport. I know like Derek Lewis cracks

me up because Derek Lewis, he couldn't name you his opponent. Like he can't tell you who he's fighting, much less like what their record is, what they've done, you know, like that kind of stuff. Like he literally has no, he could not tell you, like he can't pronounce the guy's names he's fighting. And I find it hilarious. But you're a guy who actually follows the sport. You know the sport. So when people ask your opinion, like I think it's a. compliment a way. Does it set you up for failure sometimes when they're like, hey man, how do you feel about John Jones? You know what they're angling for. Yeah, I know what they want to hear. Yeah, but at the same time, like, there's a reason why people ask your opinion because you are good at it

and you actually have like a real like nuanced response to those kind of things. You're not just saying it to say it. Like you have a reason for saying what you're saying. And there's a reason why serious and ESPN and other people are paying you big paychecks to ask for your pay because not everyone's going to do not everyone can do that so i think everyone kind of has to take a step back and like when you say something uh you know about anybody like i just it's an opinion it's it's all it is it's not that i dislike you as a person like if i know like i mean like like i like i said i have to be critical like when i when i when i when i when i grade a performance you know i mean that's that's part of my job but uh it's never personal i never say anything with like you know

personal like you know with malicious intent like that's never the point but but But again, part of my job is opinion. You get paid way more than I do to give your opinion on television. Do you think ESPN is going to keep funding of those paychecks? If you just suddenly are like, oh, no, no, I can't talk about this. No, no, I can't address that. Well, you know, they put us in, not that I want anyone to feel sorry for me, but sometimes they put us in some really terrible situations.

Like, Derek Minner fought Grant Dawson. I've known Derek Minner since he was like five years old. Like literally, that kid has been under my wing and with me since he was like five or six years old. So then Grant Dawson, current teammate, like with the Glory Factory X thing. Like I've trained with Grant a bunch. I'm tight with James Krause. Like, so now I have a kid that I've known his entire life almost fighting a guy that I train with fairly often. And then they sit me up there on ESPN like who's going to win.

Like, I'm fucked. You know what I mean? so I just, you know, and so I try, and I want people to know, like, I really, like, and more so the fighters, like, I want them to know that like, it hurts my feelings sometimes to, to, like, it bothers me to have to pick against a lot of these people because I like them personally as people, but I have to take all of that aside and push my own feelings and my own relationships with these guys to the side. And I just have to, to break it down as, as, as, I see it's going to happen.

And I don't always know. Like, again, I get the picks wrong a lot because I don't know who's going to take, take advantage of what or whatever, all the things I talked about before. But my analysis of that is very, very, very real and like from the heart. Like, I work really hard. I lock myself in a room for hours and hours and hours and hours and watch so much tape and so much film on each one of these people, each one of these fighters that, like, that's genuinely how I feel.

And if you get mad about it, like sometimes it's the things that are true that hurt your feelings the most. So like, if you ever get mad about something that I say, again, like I'm totally willing to have conversations with anybody that wants to talk

about anything that I say about their fighting skills and abilities. But those are things that I 100% stand behind because I work really hard. And I give each one of those fighters the respect that they deserve to, even the guys, the prelims that no one even knows.

The contender series guys that half the world hasn't heard of. The guys that come in on short notice, like I'm scouring YouTube and Facebook videos of these guys fighting in goddamn mom and pop shops in nowhere middle of the world. So like I give each one of those people to respect that they deserve to be able to talk about them accurately or at least how I see it.

So I'll never feel bad about any of that stuff. Like the picks, the picks bother me sometimes because I know that that hurts when people aren't the people that are I don't know I think sometimes you're viewed when you're an analyst as a quote unquote person in power like like I'm here to sway the fans or that's not my job I'm not trying to sway the fans any direction I don't care who wins the fight the picks are the part the the tough part but the the analyst part of it the the breakdown of the fight that that's the shit that I'll stand behind and I'll never let anybody changed my mind on that. So I do find that it's usually the ones, like when the fight happens

and I was exactly right, that's typically the people that get upset about it. And to be fair, that's when I've gotten mad about it too. Like anytime I've been pissed off at anyone who's ever said anything about, you know, my fight style or how this fight is going to go. If they're right, I'm usually pretty pissed. Well, all I know is Anthony. when you get asked the future about who is the best MMA journalist, I'm just going to say, like, I will be truly offended if I'm not on that list. I'm just saying right now, like, are we making picks?

Is it just, is it just one versus the other? Because if I just got to choose, I'll probably just pick someone no one knows. And, you know, I might just say myself. Say, you're in your, you now sit in my seat. That's the point. I am by no means of journalist, though, at all, at all. I just talk a shit about fights.

I love it. Well, Anthony, I appreciate doing the show today. of course, people can check out your show over on series. You're doing the show with Renee today, and you're always over there doing it. So keep up to good work over there. Are you working the desk anytime coming up soon? Yeah, yeah, I'm working the paper view on December 11th. Nice, nice.

That'll be good. That'll be good. Yeah, I'll be there watching it front and center. See who you can piss off that night, right? Oh, I'm definitely going to piss someone off, I'm sure. But if I do, just hit me up on Instagram. I'll talk to you about it. I love it.

Anthony, it's always a pleasure to catch you. up my friend. I appreciate the time. As always, keep up to good work and let's chat again soon, okay? Thanks, man. All right. Bye-bye. There he is. Anthony Smith, one of the top light heavyweights in the world. Always a pleasure to catch up with him. Appreciate the time. We'll be back next week with another edition of the Fighter versus the Riders. We preview UFC-269, the final pay-per-view of the year. So make sure you're here for that. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

and of course you can always find us over on MMAFighting.com. Want to say a big thank you again to Anthony Smith for tuning in, or for joining us today, and want to say thank you to all of you for tuning in to another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.

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