Fighter vs. Writer: Cory Sandhagen Picks Aljamain Sterling to Beat TJ Dillashaw; Stevie Ray Talks PFL Pay and Anthony Pettis Wins
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00:30Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.Welcome back to another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer.I'm your host as always Damon Martin, and today we have a great show.We're going to be talking to one of the best bantam weights on the planet.He makes his return to action on September 17th in the main event for the UFC taking on Sonia Dong.I'm going to speak in just a few moments to Corey Sanhagen.A little later in the show, we're going to talk to one of the finalists coming up in the PFL playoffs.
01:19he will battle OAM, Olivier Albine Mercier in the finals of the Lightway Division.Stevie Ray coming off a second consecutive win over Anthony Pettis.And I've interviewed Stevie a few times, but this is actually a really interesting interviewwhen you hear about what he has to say regarding the fights of Pettis and also a little bitabout the pay in the PFL, which you've heard a few fighters kind of voice their opinions onwhen it comes to playoff paying the PFL.PFL does a great job paying guys.you know, tempting people with that million dollar prize,
01:51and we've seen some guys getting paid really, really well over there,some girls as well.Of course, Kayla Harrison, one of the highest paid fighters in our sport,earning what I have been told from several very reliable sourcesis around a million dollars of fight.But there have been a few fighters complain about what they're getting paid in the actual playoffs.So we're going to talk to Steve Rui about that.And of course, here in just a moment,
02:13we're going to talk to Corey Sandhagen real quick.Coming off a weekend with no fights in the UFC,which is a rare instance going right into this weekend with UFC Paris,of course, Taitouivasa,taking on Seril Gone in the main event,and Marvin Vittori against Robert Whitaker,probably the fight I'm most looking forward to this weekend.Also, we got BKFC coming back this weekend for event over in Thailand.
02:36Lots of stuff going on this weekend.But last weekend, there wasn't as much going on.Of course, we did have BKFC in Albuquerque.John Dodson picked up a big win.Christine Fraria knocked out Taylor Starlingin a matter of seconds.And I was tasked with covering the KSI two fights in one-night boxing event.Now, people, so I fully admit I'm out of touch with the whole social influencer thing.
03:04Like, I'm not saying I don't get it or I don't know it.I'm just saying I've never been super entrenched in that side of the world as much as I'm on social media.I, of course, know who KSI is from the two boxing matches he had with Logan Paul.and things like that.And of course, I've become much more familiar with Jake Paul and his box shaker interviewedhim before and things like that.But I have never felt older or more out of touch covering an event in my entire 20-yearcareer covering combat sports than I did watching that event because it was all social
03:35influencers fighting.And there were some pretty vicious knockouts in there as well.A dude named Salt Poppy, which was a new one to me, got a knockout.But when it was over and the people buzzing,and talking about KSI and blowing up.I mean, I'm not kidding when I say blowing up,blowing up about KSI.I have never felt older or more out of touch covering an event.
03:58I was so out of my element.It was so bizarre.It's fun to step outside your comfort zone occasionallyand, you know, even more so that, you know,I'm not covering MMA, I'm covering boxing or a different form of boxing, let's say.But, man, I'd tell you what, I'm on social media.Yeah, I'm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, all that kind of stuff.But apparently my pages never run, you know, a foul of these social influencers because, my God, man, it was so crazy.
04:30Seeing the amount of attention and fanfare, so to speak, that KSI got for that fight and those two wins over, let's be honest, completely over-matched opposition.One guy, Luis Panetta, was supposedly a professional boxer with a whopping two-in-fell.record. He did not look, he looked anything but a professional boxer, okay? I've seen, I mean,I'm not, listen, I am not an athlete by any stretch of the imagination, but I think I've thrownbetter punches than Luis Panetta threw in that fight. I mean, that was embarrassing. But,you know, when KSI lost his original opponent, he tried to find some gimmick to sell the fight. He endedup fighting two guys in one night. It worked. People care. And I'm not fault in him, man. Go out and get yourmoney. Go on get paid.
05:16good for you.But it was just so bizarre seeing the amount of attention people were paying to that.And, you know, it's going to continue building.Of course, Jake Paul's got a fight.He said he's going to announce for October.We got a social gloves event coming up next weekend where a pair of NFL legends are going to duke it out.Levyon Bell and Adrian Peterson.Austin McBroom, who I had not heard of before fairly recently, taken on a guy in Anson
05:40Gibb, who's another guy that I think I've only heard of because I think he got involvedin one of the Paul brothers fights, one of those kind of cars, whatever it was.So, yeah, I'm just letting you know that I'm going to be starting to do a lot of researchon these people because people really do care about these cards.A lot of people care about these cards, whether it's the freak show element, whether it'sjust seeing, you know, people who have no business necessarily being in the boxing ring,going in there and duking it out with each other.I don't know what it is.
06:08Whatever it is, I don't care.It's not hurting anybody in terms of, like, you know, exploiting somebody.I don't care how you're doing it.People care.I'll cover it.I got no problem with it.But boy, did I just feel, I mean, I literally felt like the old guy, you know,yelling at his TV and yelling at the old kids to get off his lawn because I was so out of my element covering that event.
06:30And there's going to be more coming because people really care about KSI and really care about these social influences when they go in there and punch each other in the face.So, yeah, we'll see how that goes in the future.For now, we're going to talk about M.And we're going to talk about one of the best guys in the Bantamway Division,Corey Sanhagen, who was coming off a loss in his last fight to Peter Yan.Of course, after he had to fight, very close by with T.J. Dillisaw fight that I truly believe he won.He's now taking on Song Yadong in the main event coming up in September for the UFC.It's an interesting matchup because when you look at all the other possibilities that were out there,
07:05Jose Aldo, Maraud Walsh Vili, all the other potential top five, top six opponents he could have gotten.He got Song Ya Dong.Now, Song Ya Dong is a very good fighter.No doubt about it.But it was still a bit of weird matchmaking,considering where Corey is and established in the divisionand where Song is currently.So we're going to talk to Corey about that.
07:25We're also going to talk to him about the bantamweight title fightcoming up between T.J. Dillishaw and Al J.Stirling, two guys he's very familiar with,and a whole lot more.So right now, let's speak to Corey Sandhagen.He is one of the top bantamweight fighters in the world,and he makes his return to action in a main event in September.I am always happy to speak to,
07:43to Corey Sanhagen.Corey, how are you?Yeah, man.How are you?I'm fantastic, man.Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me as always.I appreciate it.Before we get started on all the fight stuff,
07:54let me first say congratulations,because I saw on your Instagram,you are now an engaged man.Oh, yeah, yeah.I've been engaged for about a year now or so.Oh, I saw the thing with your fiancé.I thought it was your announcement.No, no, no, that was just,
08:08I'm just soaking up that wordbecause you don't get to really use it too long.Absolutely. Now, are you involved in the wedding planning? Are you just leaving all that to her?Oh, man, I did my job. I set up like a nice thing to propose to her. I got a ring. I did all of that stuff. So now it's her turn.Now, do you have, like, do you know when you're getting married? Do you guys have a date yet?Yeah, September next year.Oh, okay. So you got a little bit of time. So you're not like, we'll go on like right after the fight or anything crazy like that.Oh, no, no.
08:41Yeah, well, Corey, of course, big fight coming up in September.I do want to backtrack because I didn't realize, like, we talk pretty often.We do a lot of interviews, but I didn't realize, like, September will basically be 11 months since your last fight when you had the fight with Peter Yan.Was there any particular reason for the time off?Was it just a matter of timing with the UFC getting a fight?Like, what was it?Because I know you like to stay active, but when I saw that, it was like, oh, yeah, 11 months.Like, it didn't seem right in my head when I saw the dates.
09:08Yeah, yeah, that's a little bit of an unfamiliar feeling for me too.It's mostly because I just had like a really busy last year.I had like, I only had three fights, but it was kind of four camps because TJ had pulled out of it like a couple weeks before we were scheduled for the first one.Then we had to reschedule.So I was kind of in like a really long training camp.But yeah, it was just a really long last year.It's really hard to get like, make.actual solid improvements and like adding in tools into your game when you're constantly thinking
09:45about and doing stuff for just one new opponent. So it was mostly just because I just wantedlike a little bit of time to develop as a fighter and then also to just, you know, like rest mynervous system a little bit as far as competition goes. Sometimes competition can get a littlebit exhausting. So it was also a little bit of that too. So I feel good now. I've worked reallyhard in the last 11 months to like really improve and add some new tools into my game. And I thinkthat I've made like really big leaps and bounds since I have been able to have like a clearfree mind without the stress of a fight to add those things. So yeah, so I'm really excited that I got tohave that time. Yeah. So rarely in this sport do you get that kind of a break unless it's something
10:33unfortunate like an injury that's what we're used to hearing like oh i had a knee injury had a shoulderinjury whatever it is knowing you consciously made that decision do you feel refreshed do you feelyou know rejuvenated do you feel better like again i you know because i everyone's got their owntimetable about taking time off so how are you feeling now you know obviously about a month out fromyour fight yeah i'm ready to make another run man like uh i i know that that's kind of how thissport works a little bit too is uh you know you don't want like big gaps sometimes like something liketo, you know, people forget about you really quickly.So I kind of know that that's the way that this system is set up too.
11:09So, yeah, I just wanted to completely refresh.I wanted to add a lot more tools.I wanted to, like, really improve on the areas that I really feel like I needed to improve in.And then I knew when I was ready, I would be able to take another run at it where we can line up, like, three, four fights after this.And I think that I'll be ready for that because I just feel so rested.I feel rejuvenated.I feel really ready.ready to compete again without it feeling as exhausting as it maybe did before.
11:39Yeah, absolutely.Let me ask you this, Corey, because going back to the last fight, you know, we talkedbeforehand right after the fight got made and it was, you know, short notice, you tookthe opportunity and you battled it out.It was a great fight.I mean, fight of the night, of course, it was an incredible battle.Can you give me, like, now that you've had time to reflect on it and move beyond it, youknow, I'm sure you've, you know, again, you're now four weeks out from your next fight, but
12:00in a bit of reflection, like, can you give me a.your thoughts on how that fight played out?Were you ultimately happywith the decision to still step in there,even though it ended up being a loss?Because I know hindsight's 2020, right?You can look back and say, maybe I shouldn't have taken on short notice,or some people say, hey, it was a great opportunity.
12:18You had a battle, you know, credit to Peter Yangetting the job done.But how do you feel about it now that you're a little further removedfrom the fight?Yeah, sure.So, okay, so I guess I think as far as the opportunity goes,I'm glad that I took the opportunity.you definitely say yes to a title fight,
12:34almost always, like, nine times out of ten.So I don't regret taking the opportunity.I guess it kind of put me at the end of the linewith all of these matches that have been being made recently.You know, like the fights are happening now,but a couple months ago,I feel like it put me at the bottom of the lineas far as, like, choice for the fight, you know?
12:58Like, I thought I was going to get Aldo, Mara,Cheeto or Cruz, you know, and I didn't get any of those guys, which is what I wanted.And, you know, I think that the reason is likely because those guys are all coming offa wins and I'm coming off a loss, even though the loss is a short notice title fight.But, and then the one before that, you know, was a razor close fight with TJ that a lotof people think that I won.So, no, I'm not too upset about the opportunity.I think it made me a lot better of a fighter.
13:28So I'm okay with that in that aspect.As far as the fight goes, I thought I was doing really awesome, man.Like it was just getting dropped in that third round, late in that third round,that kind of like messed up my fourth round because I was honestly on wobbly legs for the entire fourth.And then once my heart rate got a little bit lower going into the fifth round,I was able to kind of fight a little bit more like myself,but had to fight a little bit more reserved just because I knew that I couldn't take the damagethat I was taking in the fourth round.
13:57So strategically I had to make like some changes, which kind of,kind of led to me not being able to completely open up.And for me to completely focus on winning,it became a little bit more about not taking too much more damage.But, you know, good on yawn.He landed a good punch late in the third.It kind of changed the fight big time.And good for him, you know, but before that,
14:21I think that I was really, really outfighting them.You know, like I think that I was just showing that I was a better fighter.and then all of our bodies are susceptible to getting punched and hurt and all of that.And he landed a really tough shot.And like I said, it put me on wobbly legs in the fourth.Couldn't get my shit together by the fifth.And then that's what lost me to fight.So.
14:45Yeah.I don't know a fighter I've ever spoken to who wouldn't love the chance to avenge a loss.So I know it's such a generic question asked.But because this one happened under such weird circumstances, five round title fights, short notice.It's like the best and worst of circumstances, right?Like, it's the best because you get a title shot, but it's also the worst.You got to fly halfway around the world, five-round fight, you know, short notice against, you know,a super dangerous opponent.
15:07Like, again, it's like the best and worst-case scenario.So is there a part of you that says, like, one day I hope I get to see Yon again, five-round main event,whether titles on the line or not, but actually giving you a full camp and you're not flyinghalfway around the world to do it.And again, I know you're not making excuses.I'm just saying, like, you did have a weird set of circumstances going into that fight.Yeah, definitely.And, you know, I'm not one to, like, uh,
15:29you know, harp on those things, just, you know, because I don't want to sound like a little bitch, pretty much.Yeah, but those things matter, man.All of the details, when you really think about it, you know, the beauty is in the details.And so all of those little things, they do make a difference.But, yeah, definitely want a rematch with all my three losses in the UFC.I want one with Jan.I want one with TJ, and I want one with Sterling for sure.So, you know, is that realistic?
15:59I don't know, but, you know, if the cards play out right, all three of those I would love for very different reasons.But, yeah, I definitely want those three ones back if I ever get the opportunity.Yeah.Were you surprised or at least let me get your thoughts on how the rematch, you know, after you, of course, Peter Young went out and had the rematch with Al Jameen Sterling.Al Jamein got a bit of redemption.You know, he went through so much dealing with the DQ loss.And I legitimately felt bad for him because he was the guy who got wrong.got, you know, he got knocked with an illegal knee, and somehow he became out looking
16:34like the bad guy, which I really did feel bad for him, but for him to come back and get a win.Very close fight, he, you know, especially in that second round, he dominated, you know,Peter came back in the late part, but I'm curious because you fought both guys.Were you surprised or were you impressed?Or, like, what was your thought on how that fight played out?Yeah, I was actually surprised, you know, when people were asking me, I was saying that Yon wasgoing to win.And good for Sterling, man.
16:57like there's so many different types of fighters in the sportand there's so many different paths to victory.And I think Sterling has just done such a good jobof finding his path to victory.And it's just like it's pretty great, you know,and honestly, like mildly inspiring, you know,just to see a person who has just like figured it out,even though, you know, like he might not be the most technical,
17:25he might not be the most this,the most that.The guy has figured out a way to, like, make himself win over and over again against,like, the really best guys in the world.So, like, good on him, man.And honestly, I was a little bit inspired by the way that Al Jermain, like, figured out a wayto win that because even after the first round, I was like, this is not going good for Al Jameen.You know, like, this is not, you know, like, he was having issues, like finding the range,
17:51this and that.And then he figured it out, you know?And, like, good on him.And that takes like a really high level of experience in fighter.So good on him, man.But yeah, major surprise by that one.Yeah.Now, that being said, you already kind of segueed into my next question, Corey, earlier.
18:08You were talking about coming out of that fight.You got kind of put at the bottom of the line.And listen, I want to be clear.I have nothing against Song Yadong.This is a fun fight.He's on a good win streak, three fights in a row coming off the knockout over MarlonMariah.So, again, I don't want to make it sound like I'm disparaging him.
18:23But like when this fight got made or, you know, when the fightwere getting made, my thought was, oh, Corey and Aldo, that's a great fight.And I know that's a fight you would take.Ooh, Corey and, you know, Marab, that would be a fun fight.I know that's one I'm sure you would take.You know, Dominic Cruz, I know that's the fight you wanted for a long time.You thought you were going to get at one point.That didn't happen.
18:42You know, Cheeto Vera would have been a good one.That's a great striker versus striker kind of matchup.Even the Sean O'Malley fight, I was like, even though Sean O'Malley isn't as established,she is a big name.And I was like, man, Sean and Corey would be a great main event.Like that would be a main event you could sell or put it on pay-per-view.It would be a great fight.Now, again, I don't want to make it sound like I'm saying bad things about Song
19:01or Dong, but were you kind of, were you surprised or I won't say disappoint?I disappointed, I guess, the word I'm going to use, but like, were you like, man, like,can I get one of those guys?And because you're actually one of the few guys fighting down in the rankings.Like, you're actually fighting a guy pretty far back behind you versus someone still relativelyclose to you.You might fight someone behind you, but like, you know, you're three and there four.You're three and their five.
19:23Now you're fighting a little further down.You kind of ended up with the weirdest matchup, in my opinion.And, again, I don't mean to disparage Song of Dawn,but that's just the way I saw it.Yeah, I mean, definitely.I more or less saw it, I suppose, the same way.I thought all of those other matchups would have been really awesome,especially because they hadn't booked a lot of those guys.
19:42O'Malley was already booked to fight Munoz,or else that probably would have been the fight.Had I known it was going to end the way that it ended, you know,I probably would have waited and maybe just waited to fight O'Malley.But you can't really bank on those things.this sport, you know, like if someone gets hurt, then you're waiting another amount of time.And, you know, so I think it's just then, well, first of all, when I got the name, I was like,very surprised. I was like, that's super left field. But yes, I guess we'll take that because that's
20:11better than just sitting on the bench and waiting for these guys to fight. And then again,like, I don't know what was going on in the whole matchmaking process. You know, I don't know if itwas a matter of like they said they weren't going to fight me or if uh or if it was going to you knowor yeah or i don't hold enough clout like some of the other guys you know because i even lookback to the chito cruise fight that just happened and i mean why did chito fight down in the rankingsyou know like i thought for sure i was going to get chito uh and then he ended up fighting cruise downin the rankings when he was calling out people that were you know in the top five so that didn'tmake any sense to me. None of it really made any sense to me. So I just kind of figured that
20:53something weird was going on, whether they were saying yes to other guys because they had biggernames or whatever it is, even though I think I'm a very established name at this point. But,uh, yeah, song's fine though, too, man. Like, uh, I think song is still a very, very good fighter.He has a win over a lot of good guys, you know, like he just knocked out Marlin. He, uh,he beat Casey Kenney, who I think is a very good fighter. He beat Cheeto a long time ago. So,He has, like, a draw fight against Stamen, even though I think Stamen won that fight,even though I, because I've watched it a couple times.But song's a good fighter, man.
21:28So, you know, it's better than sitting on the bench.I'm going to take him just as serious as if he was anyone else,maybe even a little bit more serious because I'm definitely not trying to lose to someonewho's that much further behind me in the rankings.So, yeah, I'm still okay with it.It definitely feels a little bit weird, but,But yeah, it is what it is.And like I said, I'm just excited to, like, show everyone that I've gotten way, way better,
21:54even better than I was before, which, you know, not to toot my own horn,but I think that I'm probably one of the most exciting people in the UFC.And because I'm just more of a quiet guy and, you know, I don't talk a lot of shitor I don't get involved in kind of like the political piece of this entire game.You know, like, you can't watch my fights and say that I'm not one of the most exciting guys.the UFC so uh and most technical and most skilled so uh I just get to prove that again to peopleand I'll just keep proving it to them over and over and over again until I'm the one thatisn't at the bottom of the barrel asking for certain fights and and I'm the one that gets to say who
22:35I'm fighting absolutely absolutely and I don't want to play conspiracy theorists Corey but I meanit will say like you step up and you take a short notice fight and a title fight and again creditto Peter yawn for getting the job done but coming out of that like my opinionAnd again, I'm not the matchmaker.My opinion is, like, you reward a guy like you.Like, you stepped up for us.Now, you are getting a main event.So I want to be clear, that is still a very good opportunity.
22:56But, like, my thought is, like, you should still get a big fight.Like, Aldo would have been a great fight.I think you and Alta is, like, a dream fight of mine.That's what I've been, like, itching to see for the longest time.And I think you and Cheeto would be a great fight as well.Is there any, again, I don't want to play a conspiracy theory,but, like, is there any party that feels maybe a little bit like you got punished for, like,taking a short notice fight and you lose.
23:16and then you get end up like you end upI hate you some bad wordslike you don't get the shapt a little bitlike you don't get the bigger fightlike again this is not a knock on song you don'tbut like the only reason I say that Coreyis because there's so many bansomweight fightshappening right now you know what I mean like it isn't like
23:32Aldo was injured and Marab wasyou know stuck out of the countryand Cheeto was you know just foughtyou know what I mean like we all we're literallyin like a span of like 10 big bantamweight fightsand that's the only reason I bring it upbecause I'm like man likeAnd again, it's not a knock on Sonia Dong.
23:48I'm just like, okay, everyone else is scheduled.I think Corey and Aldo would have made,and that's not a knock on Mara,but I think you and Aldo would have made more sense.Yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree with you.I'm not really one to play victim, though,so it is what it is.And I know how the sport works, man.
24:04You win, you get what you want,you lose, you don't get what you want.And technically coming off for two losses on paper,you know, even though I, you know,there's reasons for those, I suppose,or whatever, but, nah, man, I'm not one to play victim.Like I said, you win, you get what you want.You lose, you don't get what you want, and that's how it's what it works.
24:22So I just got to, like, get it back in the win column, and then I can start calling the shots a little bit more than I've been able to.Yeah, let me be clear.You have one lost the T.J. Dillishaw fight.I refuse to acknowledge that one.I'm sorry.I've rewatched that fight because when they announced T.J., when they announced T.J. and Al J., for whatever reason, I decided I want to go back and rewatch that fight.And listen, not do you need me to defend you, Corey, but like, I got a little angry when it was over this time.I was like, are you kidding me?
24:50Like, what were they watching?Like, it really bugged me.And I know it bugs you, and I don't want to bring up a bad subject.But like, so you're on one loss.Okay, give credit to Peter Yon.You didn't lose to T.J. Dillishol.I'm sorry.You just didn't lose that fight.
25:01Yeah, I agree with you.Well, the history books are written wrong all throughout history.So I guess another time that that's happening.Yeah.I know you're not a big, like, prediction or picks guy.but I do want to get your opinion because now we are going to see Al Jemaine and T.J.And there's been a, I don't want to say controversy, but there has been a bit of a swirl of people, you know, kind of, I won't say angry, but a little disappointed that T.J. is getting the title shot, considering everything that's happened to him.I mean, you know, coming off to two-year suspension, he comes in and fights you. A lot of people don't believe he won.
25:32I think the majority of people believe he lost that fight.Goes off on another knee injury, and now he's sliding into a title fight.Now, I'm a big believer in if you want to keep your seat.sanity in this sport, you have to strike the word deserves from your vocabulary becauseif you think someone deserves a chance of that they're probably not going to get it andyou're going to get driven crazy thinking about it. But you're got, you know, you, you saidvery honestly, like you, you took the TJ fight knowing the allegations, knowing the baggagethat came along with that fight, and you had no problem taking it. I thought you won, but it is
26:02what it is. But I, like, I'm just, I'm weird, I'm weird about that. Like, it just feels like he'sgetting rewarded without really earning it. I know earning it again, I'm kind of complaining aboutsaying deserve, earn, whatever word you want to use.I don't know. How did you feel like, were you surprised?Did you see it coming? You just kind of roll your eyes and just say, I kind of see what'shappening here. Because me personally, like, I like the fight. I don't dislike the fight,but I'm just like, yeah, you got two years off. And yeah, he had to go on and fight you.But I don't know. It just, it seems weird to like you get that title shot opportunity
26:32with everything that's kind of surrounding him.Yeah. I'll try to give you my opinion. Most of the time my opinion is typically that, like,Like, I mean, if you really ask me and you want, like, my honest opinion,I really don't give a shit about what other people's...Not like, that's my honest opinion, but, you know, like, I guess on, like, a little bit more of,like, you know, viewing it as, like, a fan, because I view it always as, like, a fighter,which just makes me not really give a shit about what other people are doing, other than the,you know, just watching them and figuring out how to beat them.
27:08but as a fan, yeah, a little weird.I mean, who else would it be, though, I guess, you know, like.I think Aldo, I think Aldo was the other choice.I think Aldo could, you know, you could say Aldo deserved it off the last couple of wins.You had the winner of Richito, had the winner of Rob Fawn.I thought you could argue, Aldo.Yeah, actually, yeah, that's a really great point.Yeah.
27:33I don't know what.Here's what I will say is I know that a lot of things don't have.happen that seem like they make sense because there's a you know 90% of how these matchups happenand a lot of that stuff I think we don't really know how they happen you know like we can kindof just make sense out of like oh well this makes sense because this person won this makessense because of this and I mean although is definitely the choice that probably from like a logicalstandpoint makes a lot more sense but I don't you know like it's a business and it's an entertainmentbusiness and it is kind of a bummer sometimes to see things like that maybe happen but uh you know
28:17like i said it's i'm a little bit on the spot because like i said i don't really think aboutthese things past the fact of like oh i'm watching these guys how do i beat them you know yeah yeahand i know you're not a big picks and predictions guys so i won't ask you to make a prediction butdo you like the matchup with tj and algea and obviously you fought both of them um i think it is a reallyintriguing match because tj you wonder like i again i thought he lost to you again i'm not gonna keepsaying it but i'm gonna keep saying it but like i thought you beat him uh and again the time off likehe just come off another knee injury and again i think alger man surging i give her creditto aljamaid beating peter yon like i think a lot of people are once again kind of discounting
28:56aljambine i just think that's a mistake yeah no definitely would not count algeman out at allhonestly i have algeman kind of picked in this one um you're making a prediction you must feel stronglythis, Corey, because I know you're not a prediction guy.Not a prediction guy, but most of the time it's because I don't think about the fights thatI got. But this one I actually thought, I spent some time thinking about because, you know,I have to see Dwayne around at local fights. We're both in Colorado, you know, so I've kindof just been like, oh, how's that fight going to go? I have a lot of respect for Dwayne.You know, on some level, I still have some respect for T.J. He was kind of my friend for a couple
29:34years. So, you know, I've given it some thought. And I actually think that, you know, Sterling's justgoing to be able to do what he does. I think that he'll be able to take TJ down. And I thinkthat he'll probably be able to submit him if he can get on his back. I don't think TJ has, like,the amount of punching power that he maybe used to have to be able to stop Sterling or hurt himreally bad or anything. Like, I don't think that he contains that much power. And just from,like feeling the both of them too.I don't really think that TJ is going to be able to,um,
30:11that like I,I just don't think that he packs the same punch and I don't think that he's going to be asstrong as Sterling is.And I think that Sterling's wrestling is really,uh,discredited.And I think that he's an amazing wrestler and I think that he's very strong.And I think that he's just going to kind of be able to outpower T.J.
30:31Yeah.I like the match up, but I, I'm with you.I actually, I,I very much agree.I don't generally give my opinion unless you're giving your opinion, and I do.I actually think Al Jermaine's going to win.I think it's a good matchup.And again, it's one of those things that you talked about, like a little bit of inspiration
30:44from Al Jermaine.Now you go into this fight with your own chance.And again, I've said a lot, you know, talking about other fights, but SongYidong is a fun opponent.And you know going into your own fight coming up, even though he's lower in therank, he's like he's a dangerous guy, but you got to know.And I mean, I'm sure you see the writing on the wall.You're the name.
31:01You're the rank guy.You're the more established guy.he's trying to take your spot and there's a certain energy certain you know excitement that you i'm sureyou get knowing that this guy's trying to earn his name off of you and i'm sure that's the absolutelast thing you intend on happening yeah um yeah i uh you know it's always the same feelingwith my opponents you know like there's there's there's always this like uh deep competitivehatred for the person but also like uh uh and then there's also just like themisunderstanding of like them as like a human being too but uh yeah from that you know competitive hatred
31:40for my opponent song has the same amount of competitive hatred that uh everybody else got so you knowwhether he was ranked two six whatever uh does not matter to me he's going to get the exact sameamount of uh seriousness and uh uh uh you know uh i don't even really know he's going to get the same amount of uhthe same level of competitive me that, uh, that everybody else got.So, um, it's easy for me to hate my opponents.I don't need to be like, I was trying to take my spot.You know, like, I hate these motherfuckers just because like, they're trying to, they're trying to,they're trying to have my dream, you know, uh, and, uh, yeah, that doesn't fly no matter
32:24who you are.So.Yeah.It reminds me a lot of like Matt Brown who, who does my podcast with me a lot.Like he's not, like, he's not, like, he's not a big trash talk guy.He's not like, you know, I have to, you know, I have to, you.You know, I literally hate my opponent, but, like, he doesn't, like, it was like when he fought Cowboy Soroni and Soroni was trying to shake his hand.He's like, I'm not shaking your hand.
32:41Like, we're about to fight.Like, you're about to try to take what, you know, you're taking food out of my kids' mouths.And, like, afterwards, you can shake hands.You can be friendly, but there's got to be a little bit of that competitiveness, right?Like, it's not saying you're a bad sport, but, you know, this guy's trying to take everything from you in a way.Yeah, no, definitely.I don't see it as being a bad sport.You know, after almost every single fight, everyone shakes hands, gives each other a hug.
33:04You know, but that's for after the fight.And before the fight is, like I said, just like this deep burrowing hatred for the other person.It's kind of hard to, like, beat the shit out of someone and not have that hatred for him.So, you know, that's what it is.And maybe that's why I don't talk shit is because I feel the same way about all of these people.They're just my opposition.And they're just people that I need to figure out how to dismantle and destroy.and whether it's someone that's talking shit,
33:35not talking shit,trying to get under my skin,not trying to get under my skin,polite, not polite,doesn't matter to me.Like,they still get the exact same version of meevery single time.
33:45I feel like that's a t-shirt you need to make,competitive hatred.I like that.That's like,I'm going to seal that phrasebecause it's true.Like,that's a good way to look like,
33:52you don't literally hate your opponent,but like you hate themfor what they're trying to take from you.You hate that they're trying to go in thereand beat you.Like there is that little bit of,a little bit of fire inside, right?Like, you don't literally hate them,
34:03but that competitive hatred.I dig that.Like I said,make a t-shirt out of that, Corey.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Yeah, it's kind of hard to organize in my bodybecause it's like,how am I feeling two things at one time
34:12where I can see these people as human beingswho I, like, actually care aboutand, like, can relate to them probably more than I can relateto 99% of the other people on the planet.But also how do I, like,hate them so much for, like, being also that to me,you know, like being in opposition to mebecause they're so similar to me.
34:31Like, that's kind of tough to organize in my brain,but it kind of just comes down to, like, me organizing, like,just different planes or dimensions or levels of living.And when you're fighting,you just have to, like, live on a different level of existencethat isn't, you know, super compassionate,and it isn't super, like, you know, buddy, buddy.And it isn't like this, like, this very human loving way
34:57that I try to be most of the time.but not for my opponents, not for them,because then I'll just do as shitty as I did in the Sterling fight.So I'd be away from being friendly or anything like that.Like they're my opposition there, the enemy until the last bell rings.And then that's just it.Yeah, you compartmentalize it.You can be the court.
35:22You can be Corey Sanhagan, the fighter, in the gym.You can be Corey Sanhagan, the fighter, when you're in the fight.And then you can be Corey Sanhagan, the fiancé,when you're home, you can be Corey Sanhagan, the hiker when you're out doing outdoor things.Like, you can compartmentalize it.You're not the same guy all the time.You're not always going to be like, you're not going to be carrying that hatred in your heart when you come home or whatever.So you can compartmentalize it.
35:42Yeah, sometimes.Now, before I let you go, Corey, you know, you just said earlier that you want to stay busy.Now that you've had this break, you do want to kind of get back on the streak.And again, in no way, shape, or form am I looking past Songia Dong?But I'm going to, I'm going to suggest something to you.Now, anyone listening, why?watching whatever they're doing this interview. I want to be clear. I'm the one saying this.Corey Sanhagan isn't saying this. I'm saying this. But everything goes well in September.
36:07You beat Song you don't know. I'm going to throw out a suggestion because, again, you did miss out on some of the big fights.I thought you should have got. So I'm not going to cry over spilled milk. But everything goes well in September.I want to see Corey Sanhagan welcome Henry Sehuto back to the Bantamway Division. That's a monstrous fight.Henry gets cleared in October to fight again. He's going to be in a weird situation because a lot ofof the bantan weights have already fought.We know the title fights in October, Aldo and Morab, all these other fights are happeningright now.So a lot of guys probably aren't going to be ready to fight again until later.
36:38Now, I know you're fighting later than them, but I know you're a guy who likes to stay active.Am I wrong?Like, I think that would be a great fight.Like, you want a big fight.I think that would be huge because I was actually shocked.Henry didn't just get a title fight, which, again, it is what it is.But I think that would be a huge fight.Oh, yeah.
36:52I love that.I don't really know.I don't even know really what the hell is going on with Henry because he says a million.and I don't really, you know,last time I saw him was in Vegas,and he looks like he has a lot of weight to losebefore he makes $1.35.So, but yeah, if he's back in October or whatever,
37:08that sounds phenomenal to me, man.Like, the bigger the name, the more eyes,the more opportunity.So, you know, that's always the goal.So, yeah, that sounds awesome.I had never even really thought of thatbecause who knows what the hell that guy is doing right.But yeah, that sounds great.
37:26I'm playing Matchmaker.I fully admit it.But like I said, looking at the lay of the land.Again, I thought you deserved a different fight, but that is what it is.Credit to Sonia Dong, go out there and get your win.But that would be huge.I just think that would be a monstrous fight.Great way to close out the year in December.
37:39You know, because they've kind of booked cards all the way up to November already.Like the big fights in November already kind of getting booked.So, you know, you and Suhudo, December.I'm just saying, like I said, I'm just throwing out ideas.I like it.I like the idea.Well, Corey, it is always a pleasure to catch up.You know I appreciate the time.
37:56Have a good rest of your training camp.Of course, safe travels out to the fight.Always good to see you back in the main event.And thank you, as always, for the time.You know I appreciate it.Yeah, cool.Thank you, Damon.I'll talk to you next.
38:06Hey, talk to you soon.Bye.Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you.From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrance sets.Our special selection has something for every style and price point.Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com.It's hockey season, and you can get anything.you need delivered with Uber Eats.
38:27Well, almost, almost anything.So no, you can't get a nicerank on Uber Eats. But iced tea,ice cream, or just plain old ice?Yes, we deliver those.Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes.Because those are groceries, and wedeliver those too, along with your favorite
38:43restaurant food, alcohol, and othereveryday essentials. Order Uber Eatsnow. For alcohol, you must be legal drinkingage. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availabilityvaries by region. See app for details.A big thank you, of course, to Corey.Manhagen always enjoy talking to him.Always a fun conversation.
38:59And I look forward to his fight coming up in just a matter of weeksagainst Song Yodong at the UFC Apex.But, you know, I'm kind of like,I'm weird on the UFC Apex shows nowbecause when they first started, I kind of enjoyed them.It was kind of fun to, like, eliminate the crowd noise,hear the corners, you can hear the punches.It was kind of dramatic.
39:19Like, you know, we remember going back all the way to win,you know, Glover to Shera fought Anthony Smith.and it was kind of a crazy, you know, nasty fight.Now, that wasn't in the apex, but like the no crowd events.And, like, we could hear them talking and you can hear Anthony Smith, like, talking to the referee,talking to his corner, things like that.And then the apex is even more intimate because you're not even in an arena.You're in a very small enclosed area.
39:42You know, I've been to the Ultimate Fighter Gym many times, and it's not much there.Like, it's very small, and you can hear everything.You hear a pin drop if no one's talking.And the echo is also there.So I enjoyed it at the beginning.It was kind of fun.You know, it was kind of fun.But then as time passed,
39:58and we started having these really, really big fights at the apex or in Abu Dhabi or other places where there were no fans.And it really got bizarre.Like, it's hard for me to, like, fathom watching, like, Francis and Ghana become heavyweight champion without a crowd there.Things like that.Like, thinking back at some of the big, you know, huge moments that happened without a crowd being there, it's just so bizarre.And, you know, I was back at a U.of the first time in a while when they came here to Columbus for the UFCColumbus show that Curtis Blades headline against Chris Doccas and like the crowd
40:29was going crazy and it was just fun to be there around people and you kind of realize likehow much of a difference a live audience makes to a big fight card and you know it does likeyou just the dramatic shifts in emotion and things like that you just can't get that you knowthe feeling the buzz you don't get that without a crowd so I understand the UFC is stillgoing to be going and doing apex shows.I don't know that that's ever going to go away because some of these smaller UFC fight nightcards that may not sell a ton of tickets, things like that, they're probably going to continueputting on these apex cards.
41:07You know, if they just, they got a spot to fill, travel expenses are a lot.I mean, that's one thing that doesn't get talked about.Like they have like when they do these shows, you know, they're talking about arena feesand things like that.But they're also talking about travel costs because they got to bring the octagon.gone. They got to bring their crew. They got to bring lighting, all these different things when they go to an event. And so it starts to become like, you know, uh, you know, expense in terms of what they want to put into the event versus what they're getting out of it. They already got their money from ESPN. That's already, you know, it's already laid out there. They get that guaranteed. If ticket sales are not going to magnify to the point where they can justify the travel, whatever the case may be, they won. Now, of course, they're going to UFC Paris this weekend. That's going to be a big event. First ever car there. They got a headline by a French fighter and surreal gone. It all makes sense.But sometimes it's not going to make sense.And so they take it to the apex.
41:56But I'm not saying I'm fed up with the apex, but it's just weird now.Like it's gone back to the old way where I'm like, I want the crowd there.I need the audience there.I need people cheering.I want to hear the reactions when you can, you know, when a crazy knockout happens,you hear the cheers or you hear a crazy knockout happen and it all goes deafening silence for a minutebecause it's shocking.One of my all-time most wild moments covering a live show in the UFC was when I went to
42:21landed to cover Rashad Evans against Chuck Liddell.And that crowd was very lively, very loud.You know, Chuck Liddle, one of the most popular fighters in the history of sport.And when Rashad Evans laid him out, you could have heard a pin drop because the crowdwent stunned silence when he got knocked out.Now, again, it's just such a unique feeling because the crowd's going nuts, crowds goingnuts.And then boom, happens.
42:42And the crowd just goes silent for, you know, a couple seconds.And then, you know, they go nuts again.That's the kind of, you know, when I was in Montreal, when George St. Pierre fought MattSarah for the second time and George St. Pierre came out and the music was so loud that I couldn'teven hear, or the crowd was so loud, I couldn't hear GSP's music. Like, that's how loud,if you've ever been to an arena, like, you know the music, the speakers are bumping. Like,you can hear the music. The crowd was so loud in Montreal that night that I could not hear themusic. I had no idea what George St. Ampera walked out to that night because the crowd was so
43:14freaking loud. That's an experience you can't take away. And so I'm kind of, I'm not saying I'm overthe Apex shows. I get that I get why they're still happening, but it does bum me out a little bit.And I kind of root for guys like Corey and some of these other people to like get these biggeropportunities on these other cards. But a main event is a main event. And that's where you wantto be. And Corey Sanagan is in a main event. And I'm sure, you know, like I said, that's whatyou always take as a fighter. You want that spot. You want the spotlight. And that's whereCorey Sanhagan is taking on Song Yadong. Even though I wish, you know, a fight like this was goingto be featured on a card with the crowd because I think this is going to be a banger.
43:50I mean, it may not last more than two rounds, but I think it's going to be a banger.It's going to be a great fight.Right now, I'm going to shift gears into my interview with Stevie Ray.Of course, he's coming off back-to-back wins over Anthony Pettis that got him into the finals of the PFL.He is now poised to take on OAM, Olivier, Aubin, Mercierge in the finals with a million dollars in the line.Of course, Stevie is a veteran.He retired briefly, came back, went to the PFL, had some ups and downs there.But now riding a win streak into the finals, we're going to talk about that.
44:20As I mentioned at the top of the show,talk about the pay situation and the PFL,which has been raised by a few guys and girls,so we're going to talk about that as well.So enjoy this chat with PFL finalist, Stevie Ray.Well, I appreciate the time.Of course, congratulations on another amazing win.It's got to be bizarre to go out and have back-to-back fights
44:42against the same guy.It's got to be bizarre to pull off one of the craziest submissions everand then have to go out there and do it again,go out there and fight the same guy again,but brilliant performance, you've got to be happy.Yeah, man, like you said,it's a bit weird to go out and fight someday so short notice,never mind it being the former world champion
45:04and Anthony Pettis and such a big name.Yeah, I think it worked out well for me, you know,having the famous guy,the kind of the one that was maybe,looking to go and win it.So, yeah.Let me ask you this,and this is not me trying to get you to take a shot at the UFC,
45:30so I don't want to make it seem like that.But, you know, you were in the UFC for a long time.Now, you had big fights in the UFC.You fought good opponents,so I'm not knocking anyone you fought.But you know how it works sometimes in the UFCand other promotions that, you know, yes,you put together a great win streak,
45:45you'll get opportunities.But a lot of times it comes down to popularity.it comes down to who's saying the craziest things,who's getting the most press,that kind of stuff.In PFL,you got to fight against a legit,you know,
45:57former lightweight champion in Anthony Pettisbecause that's just the way this tournament works.That's how the PFL format works.You win,you get these kind of fights and it plays out that way.Like,is there some kind of, like,do you like the way the PFL does it?
46:09Because, like, being honest,like,you may have ever gotten a fightwith Anthony Pett in the UFCjust because how politics work.You know what I mean,how popularity works,things like that.
46:18Now you have two wins over Anthony Perez.Like, that's an amazing thing.Yeah, I mean, I really like the platform that PFL do.I mean, it's a bit of a weird one because obviously, you know,I beat Pettas, but then he got a second chance,and I technically lost to Alexander Martinez,and I got another chance.And then, you know, even watching Martinez fight,
46:43was it, who was it, he fought again?Collard, you know, it was a very close.fight where it could have went to Collard.But yeah, I like theplatform, the whole point systemfor the first two fights. It's likebeing smartand kind of pushing
47:01you to go out for the finish as well.And then like you said, I managed to get backto back fights with themost famous guy in the PFLkind of roster,if you like. And yeah,the factor, you know, I got quite aunique submission against them the first time
47:20and then beat him againnow I'm in the finallike it couldn't have went any better reallyyou know this wholeUFCsorry PFL tournamentyeah and especiallycoming off like you said
47:35from the UFC and having a big breakbecause it was two and a half yearssince I had foughtwhen I fought Martinezbut yeahI got the ring rust and stuffoff at the way now. Yeah. Let me ask you this, Stevie, because, you know, when you beat Pettus the first time,it was such a shocking, cool, you know, submission. I love great submissions. I love seeing pull,
48:00like when A.J. McKee pulled out that crazy submission of Bellator, you know, I love, I love submissions,and I love unique submissions. But, you know, at the time, you know, Anthony Pettis, he is a big name.And rightfully so, former champion who's done all these things. Do you feel like you're, you'regetting the credit you deserve now because you beat him twice?No one can say it was a fluke.You pulled off this crazy submission.You caught him, you know, those kind of things.Like, you did it back to back.
48:25You know what I mean?Anthony Pettis has only had a couple of rematches as an entire life.You know what I mean?And you went out there and beat him twice in a row.Like, do you feel like you are now getting the credit you deservefor how big of a win this is?A little bit.I mean, I'm getting more recognition and stuff now.
48:42And I'm getting that.But at the same time, it's almost like,you know, some people are like, oh, there's a lot of hate in the world.There's a lot of, you know, people that talk, especially on social mediabecause they know that they're safe at their home with their keyboard or whatever.But, you know, a lot of them are saying, oh, Pettis is done.He needs to retire and stuff.But, I mean, before I thought him, the first time,
49:08he was coming off a big submission win against Miles Price.And, yeah, he did not do the best last year.He had a close fight with Rous Mampfiel, the champion,and I actually thought he won that fight,and then he got beat off-collared.But people just need to realize, like, you know,these guys are really good fighters as well, you know,just because it's PFL and it's no the UFC,
49:37it doesn't it mean like you're stepping downin terms of, like, opponent level.Like, Clay Collard is a beast as well,and the same way of as Manfieler that won it.I mean, you can go and fightin a lot of places, there's always going to bea lot of tough fighters and tough fights.It's not just like, you know, the UFC is where the tough fights are.
50:02No.But yeah, I mean, I'm hoping that people are going to startgiving me the recognition and stuff that I deserve,and I'm hoping to get a pair of eyes now as well.just to beat him twicebecause, you know, I've seen what he madelosing to me the first time.And quite rightly so, I understand why he's getting paid more,
50:27you know, why he got 750K.But now that I've beat him twice,I mean, the second fight, I got paid less than the first fightbecause the way the system works,the way the, the way like the PFL playoffs work,because when I first got sent the contract,I was like, wait a minute, there's been a mistake herein what I was told I was getting paid
50:53and I actually went to Ali and I said,they made a mistake.He was like, no man, the PFL, the playoffs are different.Everybody gets the same.And yeah, it was about a wage cut from even the first fight.Yeah, I'm feeling like, you know,I've just beat Pettus twice.He was the top dog.
51:13He was the top draw.and now it's time for me to get that Anthony Pettis money.That's so crazy.So you actually made less money in the rematch with Anthony Pettis,in the playoffs, which, you know, you think playoffs,you know, you've made it further in the tournament,so you'd be more money.You actually made less money for that than the first fights.
51:37Yeah, and I was obviously main event of Madison Square Garden,a huge arena.Yeah, I mean, I'm no one.wanting to like, you know,bitch at PFL or, you know,any of those guys, because I can't understand,that was part of the deal.That at the playoffs,
51:55you get that money.And it's obviously because you're getting the opportunityto win a million dollars.But at the same time, it was a little bit,it was a little bit gutting to, you know,to hear about the wage drop.And the fact, you know,the facts that I know how much he got paid.
52:14the first fight. I mean, that is life-changing money, 750K. Whereas, yeah, I'm being paid good,or I thought I was being paid good, but then when I seen how much money some of the otherfighters are making, like, I believe, you know, I accepted the first contract that I done withPFL, because I was, you know, I had a long layoff and they gave me an opportunity to come andfight and state-marking a thing now but now that I'm in the final and like I said I've got twowins over Piss I feel like now there's there should be a some talks and a new contract andyeah for the for the next fight and even maybe next season or whatever yeah yeah and listento be clear like I think you work with the best manager in the sport I made no secret how much
53:09I like Ali. He's an incredible manager. He goes out there in battles for his guys.But you're not the first person to say this. You had a similar conversation with Chris Wade,who's in a very similar position as you, where he's, and he actually has been with the BFL for like three seasons now.Maybe you saw it. He talked about it. He's like, I don't know why I'm making less money now in the playoffs than I was the regular.So it's kind of crazy that now I'm hearing it twice in a row. And I'm sure you're not alone.I'm sure there's other people going through something similar. That is so wild at me because you would think,I don't like I'm just like if you made if you made $50,000 in in the in the regular season then you should make like 75 or 100K like it just makes sense you've made it to the playoffs that's when you get paid more like that's how sports work right like the closer you get to the title the more money you make like that's kind of how it works yeah I mean digging me wrong I kind of do get like the system that he's done because like there's not a lot of companies out there paying a million dollars and.you know, giving a million dollars to the winner.
54:11So the opportunity is there and it's there to go and get the taken.I mean, the playoffs were, I didn't know if it's the same for everyone.I'm pretty sure it was, but it was 25 and 25.So $25,000 to fight, $25,000 to win.And, yeah, like I said, I was to be the main event and beat Anthony Piss.It's a bit gutton, but now, obviously, I'm in the final.And, you know, it's a million dollars for the winner.so I win my next fight, I get a million dollars.
54:41I won't, that is a good payday.But I feel like I'm at the stage now where I need,I deserve to get a pay rise in the regular fights and stuff.Like, you know, just more security.Like, I've got four kids and stuff and I've worked hard.And like I said, I, you know, I accepted the contract that I'm on the nowcoming after a two and a half year layoff.and it was a new opportunity for me.
55:12And yeah, I feel like just, you know, that, like,Ali explained it to me as well.He's like, you know, in football, you know,if you go and take out the good guy or whatever,then improve your worth, then they then get paid more.So, aye.Yeah.Well, and to be clear, like,
55:38And I think everyone, you know, and I'm certainly on that list as well, I praise the PFL for the million dollar paydays because that's huge.You know what I mean?That's life-changing money.I talked to Haush Manfio last season, you know, he was talking about how he was cleaning office buildings and borrowing money from Natanz Schult just to live.Like he had, he couldn't afford rent.You know, he had to borrow money from Natanz Schult just to make rent, basically.And then he won the million dollars and it was completely life-changing money.Allowed him to become a full-time fighter, you know, train all the time.
56:08time of those kind of thing.So it's life-changing money.But you're still not doing it for free.You know, you're not, you didn't, you know, when you beat Anthony Pettis,freaking legend of the sport, former UFC champion, you should still get compensated for that,like properly.That's kind of my point.Like the million dollars is great.
56:23And if you beat Olivier Albert Mercier, you win the million dollars.Great.That's awesome.And I root for you to do that.But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get paid, you know, well for this last fight.You know what I mean?Like that's not a knock on the PFL.That's just the reality.
56:37yeah maybe i meanespecially seeing that peters got750k the first fightit's like i get it's like you know whathe's bringing more to the table than me probablyhe's selling more tickets he's he's theyou know he's the nameand even at being in new york
56:57like uh you knowI heard it when I walked out I got booed a bit he got cheeredlike they're there they're paying to see himumand even theyou know MSGwe're really happythat Pettis was finally fighting there
57:12but yeahI'm kind of likeyou know whatbeat them onceand then beat them twicenow I'm like rightyeah I couldeven if it's no 750K
57:26if it's a bit morethan what I'm gettingthen I'll be happy with thatyeah I don't want to turnbecause again I want to be clearI know you'rehappy, you're about to fight for a million dollars, you're about to fight for a championship.So I don't want to turn it all negative or anything.
57:41But one thing I want to ask you on this, on this pay thing real quick, you know,unfortunately where we're at now, and I'm sure you've seen this because you've been aroundSteve, you've been around the sport.You know, there was a time when commissions always reported what fighters made, Nevada, California,all the we saw.Now, we know that's not the full story.We understand there's bonuses and things like that to get paid out that we don't ever see.And I understand that.
58:02But just like what we saw with when Georgia released.payday for your Pettus fight.Like, I had no idea how much Anthony Pettus was making.Zero idea.They don't tell us.Commissions aren't releasing it.Like, would you wish there was more transparency like that, like, where we wouldactually see that?
58:20Because how are you, like, how would you ever know, right?Like, if you left that fight, you'd have no idea.If that wasn't made public, you would have no idea how much you made.You know what I mean?Yeah, that's sad.I feel like it is good for other fighters as well, because, like, you know,no disrespect to any of the other fightersbut I've seen Brendan
58:40Lockman is on, I think he was on85 and 85like that's more than double mindand I feel like for what I've donein my career you know I beat the likes ofMichael JohnsonJoel Loz on, Ross Pearsonhad
58:54multiple fights in the UFC and stuffso I've kind of proven thatyou know I'm a good fighterand I'm and nowespecially that I'm in the final.First season with PFLjust beating Pettus twice.It's good to see that because
59:13it's like I now know that I'm worthmore, like I feel like I'm worth more than what.I was happy with what I was getting paid,but to see that, you know, someof the other stuff and Pettis getting750K is crazy.Like I know he maybe deserves it.You know, he's worked his ass off his whole career
59:30and former champ and stuff.But yeah, there's a lot of guys.I think I remember, as I think it said, Rory McDonald's got 250K.So I'm not sure if that was like, if he would have got another 250 to win as well.Kayla Harrison's getting like around a million a fight.Yeah, just, I could be doing with some of that.Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.Can I ask, and I know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyways,
01:00:02how much would a million-dollar prize mean to you, Stevie, in this next fight?I mean, how much life-change?Because you've been around.You fought your ass off.I don't know a better way to say.You fought.I mean, everyone remembers the Luzon fight.What you just went out there and did with Pattis?
01:00:15Like, you've had a career.How much would that million-dollar prize mean to you?Oh, it'd be, like you said, it would be completely life-changing.Like, I mean, to be able to possibly pay off your home, like, to not have a mortgage, you know,to be able to just invest in the business.Like I've got my own gym as well, Braveheart to MMA,that I started after, in 2017, after one of my losses,lost to Paul Felder.
01:00:49There was a little gap where I wasn't sure if I was going to be resigned to the UFCand I started coaching and basically built it up.And, you know, I just started coaching for something to do, really,to stay busy while I was waiting to hear what was going to happenwith the contract.and it took off.I got really busyand now I've got a pretty successful gym.
01:01:10I pay guys obviously to run itand I've got guys that look after itwhile I'm taking care of fighting and stuff again.I'm living in a separate gym,focusing on my training.But yeah, just be good to like,because at that gym we've no got showers,you know, the toilets, a little bit of a trek.
01:01:31So it'd be good to get like,a place where there's shower facilities,there's heating, it's freezing in the winter.So just to be able to do thatand have a good place to build on,you know, the post-retirement kind of coaching.And yeah, just everything, like, you know,a good family holiday.
01:01:54I've got four kids, so they didn't come cheap.But I just, I didn't even know what I'd,I'd do that, but it would be life-changing, no.Yeah.And you've had your last couple of performances, you mentioned,you know, coming back after such a long layoff,kind of knocking the rust out in that first fight,and then coming on beating Anthony Pettus twice, you know,
01:02:20OAM, Olivier Abin-Mercier, he's looked great.You know, we know what he's good at.He's a really strong wrestler.That's what he does best.He comes from that Montreal camp,that George St. Pierre style of, you know,going out there and taking you down and grinding on you.He's a very good fighter.
01:02:34He's a guy you could have fought in the UFC at one point.I mean, you guys are both in the UFC.How do you like this matchup?And knowing, you know, knowing going in,and again, I don't want to, you know, just say he's not,he's a one-trick pony because he's not.He's a mixed martial artist.But you got to imagine he's probably going to try to get, you know,
01:02:51wrestling and things like that.So how do you like this matchup with him?Yeah, like the matchup, I mean, the same way everybody,he's got strengths, he's got weaknesses.I've actually trained with Olivia.We've trained and sparred together as well.We've done rounds.So, I mean, I can't remember all of them,
01:03:12but I know there's enough to know, you know,what he's good at and stuff like that.But even if we had to train together,I mean, you see it in the fights anyway.It's pretty much the same.You know, he's strong.He's a big guy.He cuts a decent amount of weight.
01:03:30And, yeah, and he's got power because he's a big guy as well.I wouldn't say his striking's too greatbut he has got powerin his left hand. He droppedMartinez I think twiceand yeah he's just lookedhe looks pretty fundamentally solidbut like I said
01:03:48everybody's gotsome weaknesses and holes in their gameand I've got a great coachthat's good at seeingthese wee kind of detailsand I'm sure we're going to geta good wee plan togetherto get the win.
01:04:04Yeah, absolutely.And how long ago did you train with him?When was that?So my last fight camp I did at TriStar, I had done six weeks.That was when I fought in Canada.What was the guy's name again that I fought?It was UFC Moncton.I can't even remember the guy's name.
01:04:29Biggot, Jess and Ayari.I fought him.So that would have been2018, maybe?So notnot super long ago,it wasn't that long ago.Yeah, yeah, it wasn't it too long ago.
01:04:44And, yeah,um,I mean,I can't remember too much.Like,I know that,I know he submitted meand I've submitted him.
01:04:55I know that.I remember that.Um,and,uh,I know that he's pretty strong.He's a Judo Black Belt,so most of those guys are always pretty strong, good on top.
01:05:12Try my other else.Yeah, and obviously I know he's a self-ball.Yeah, we're quite similar, actually, I feel.I feel like I've got pretty good grappling.He's got good grappling.We're both kind of big, strong guys,and we're both self-paws.We've both got power on our left hands.
01:05:30so yeah i mean i've got 15 weeksi think the biggest difference will be isi'm going to train um likelike tomorrow's the end of my life like justput everyone in itum you know i'm sure he's wanting a million dollars as wellbut he's not got four kids to feed soI'm going to make sure I do it everything I can in this training camp
01:06:04and I'll be the best Stevie Ray that anybody's seenand we'll see if that's obviously going to be good enough.I love it. I love it.I do, I got to say, Stevie, when you're done with training,you know, when you're through this fight and you're celebrating a million dollars,at some point when I run into you again, you got to show me the secret of your Twister.I really, I love that submission.It's my favorite submission of the year so far.
01:06:27I want to see that in person.to show me sometime. I got to see the, I got to seethe, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Iput, I put a little clip together explaining it on a YouTube. I posted it on my, mymy Instagram, if you wanted to look at that, it's kind of like a, instructional, but, yeah,definitely, man, if, uh, next time I see you, just come and grab me and, uh, just pull me over. I want tosee that twister. I love it.I love it. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that, though.
01:06:59You, you know, considering, you know, I remember we talked, it's going back several years when you were, when you were getting your new contract in the UFC and you were kind of living through some uncertainty, you know, where you're going to get resigned, all these kind of things.And then you retired at one point, you left the sport, you know, you walked away, a couple years away.Could you have imagined when that happened, when you left the UFC, you retired, could you have imagined, you know, a couple years later, two and a half, basically less than three years later, you're about to fight for a million dollar prize.like in a championship i mean it's crazy how this world works right like it's crazy how the sportworks but could you imagine like looking back three years ago to see where you're are see whereyou're at right now yeah i mean it's crazy uh i mean i didn't think that i always knew i was goingto fight again even like very shortly after i retired i knew that i was going to fightum it was kind of emotional decision it was what it was with
01:07:59kind of what happens with the UFClike, you know,you know, we wentour separate ways after the biggest win of my careerand I was a bit depressed,if you like.My knee was bad at the time as welland I remember thinking,
01:08:15you know, fuck it, me, I'm done with it.I'm pissed. You know, I was, I wasangry. I was pissed offand I was just like, you know, I'm done.And then a wee bit later, I was like,well, what else am I going to do in my life?It's all I've done for the past10 years or whatever.
01:08:31It's all I know and it's all I'm good atbecause of how much time I've invested in there.COVID made that break be a bit longer.Obviously there was no showsgoing to be taking on any new fighters muchbecause the uncensored, you know,shows were even getting cancelledbecause of COVID
01:08:52and then the whole fight on thing and stuff.But yeah, I'm just obviously grateful.Thanks to obviously the PFL and Ali for hooking that deal up.And yeah, now, like, I see it as like Stevie Ray 2.0.It's like, because at that time, I did, you know,I did kind of question whether I still had it in mebecause the knee injuries, like,it can play with your mental health every day waking up
01:09:20whether my knee's going to be good or not.And then obviously depressed if I can't go on trainor if I have a fight and I see videos in my,my guy trainingand I'm sitting on the couchice and my kneebut yeahthanks to
01:09:35obviously some rehab and stuffand rest and theBickram yogais what's really fixedmy knees doing 90 minutesof Bickram hot yogaconsistently forI've been doing that
01:09:51for I think just over a year nowor close to a yearand that's honestlywhat's healednot only my knees but my whole body like every time i go and do the 90 minutes of bikrum yoga umit's like going to the the physio uh getting a massage and uh you know just it just fixes my bodykeeps me keeps my body from breaking down so um i'm thankful to that yeah i am by no meansin any way shape or form uh an athlete like yourself stevie but i played football most of my
01:10:27life so I have terrible knees, terrible ankles from playing football. And when I first started doingyoga years ago, like I didn't realize like how like how much that can like help your body,but also it's like it's a weirdly incredible workout too. Like it is not easy. Like I don't thinkpeople will give yoga enough credit for like what it can actually do for you. It's kind of wild.Yeah, especially I mean, especially Bikram yoga because I've done yoga for about seven or eightyears. I've only doneBikram yoga for about a yearand it's
01:11:00just a different level.I mean, the heat for one,it's like 40 degrees.And then to do a workout,a 90 minute workout in itand yeah,I just feel like it's justperfect for what I need because I'm
01:11:16getting a workout, I'm getting like that heatthe benefits of like heatlike a sauna kind of thing andlike blood flow andand yeah like obviously mobility and flexibility and stuff as wellbut yeah I feel like that has literally saved my careerbut and gave me the chance to you know come backand I actually feel like I'm you know I'm in my prime
01:11:41I've went from being a broken man with my body no workand always being injuredto I've just done free fights in four monthswhich proves that, you know, how durable my body is now.You know, it's hard to sometimes do free fights in a year,never mind three fights in four months.And I'm literally ready.I could start fight camp again tomorrow.
01:12:08Like, no injuries, thankfully, from the fight.Yeah, well, Stevie, you have looked fantastic.Your last couple of performances in particular have looked at a phenomenal.Congratulations again.on the second winner of Anthony Pettis,as well as the first winner of Anthony Pettus.Look forward to the fight with OAM coming up in October.Enjoy a little downtime.
01:12:32I know you don't get a lot because this is a very busy season,but enjoy a little bit of downtime.Get back into training.Can I wait see you go out there and compete for that million dollars?And I really do appreciate the time.And I'm very much excited to see you go out there and compete for that championship later this year.No worries, man.Thank you.
01:12:49Did you say October?I think it's November.November, sorry, November, yeah.It was October last year is what I was thinking of.It's October last year.They did October last year.That's what I was thinking of.So, you know, it used to be December.
01:13:02Then it was October.So, yeah, they keep moving it around on me.Yeah, to be honest, I've not been told, like, the cement date yet,but I'm pretty sure, yeah, I've seen 25th in November,whether that's guaranteed or not.No, you're right.It is that.Last year it was October.
01:13:19I remember it was October last year, and the year before that, it was December.So they've moved it around a lot.I keep forgetting when it's going to be.But I will say this, and you know it better than I do,Piffel's season ain't no joke.You're basically fighting four times in about six, seven months.That's no joke.Yeah, yeah, that's it.
01:13:35And like I said, I would never have been able to do that two years ago,you know, with the injuries and stuff.But, yeah, I'm just thankful that, you know,I've been, like, my body works again,and I've managed to get through it pretty well.I mean, after the first fight, I was actually pretty sorewith Martinez.I was a little bit injured, but, yeah, the last two fights I've came out unscathed.
01:14:05So, yeah, pretty good.Fresh for starting the fight camp against OAM.Yeah, absolutely.Well, Stevie again, thank you so much for the time.Have a good training camp.Like I said, get a little bit of rest.Get a couple days off in thereAnd look forward to you fight for that championship
01:14:25And fight for that million dollar prize later this yearThank you manThanks for your timeHey talk to you soon, okay?Yeah, speak to somebody.Bye-bye.Thanks, man.A big thank you once again to Stevie Ray for coming on the show
01:14:40Always good to chat with himIn a really fascinating interviewWith him coming out of his big winBig back-to-back wins over Anthony PettusAnd of course a big thank you to Corey Sandhagenfor joining me on the show this week. Always one of my favorite interviews, one of the mostwell-spoken and intelligent guys in the sport. I always enjoy talking to Corey. I want to say a bigthank you, of course, everyone that tunes into the show each and every week. We appreciate it. Make
01:15:03sure you check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of courseyou can always find this over on MMAFighting.com. The best website in the world. We'll see youguys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuned in. We'll see you then.Network.
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