MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer Debates What’s Next for Tony Ferguson, O’Malley’s Coach Getting Into It w/ Merab + More

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss what comes next for Tony Ferguson after an eighth straight loss in the UFC, Sean O’Malley’s head coach Tim Welch getting into a war of words with Merab Dvalishvili, Umar Nurmagomedov’s win over Cory Sandhagen and Brown’s experience working with a four-time Olympic gold medalist from Cuba. Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and now renovated gym owner, Matt Brown. Matt, you reopened the immortal martial arts through this past weekend. How was the big grand reopening? I didn't get to make it because the damn UFC Avodabee car was running the exact same time. No, it was a great time, man. Had a great turnout.

Tons of people showed up. A lot of sign-ups. A lot of people joined the gym. lot of people heard about it they'd never heard about it um you gave away some good raffle tickets we actually you probably would have liked it we gave away a one thousand dollar tattoo from one of my friends it's a tattoo artist or one thousand dollars worth of tattoo work you know not not a specific tattoo um so yeah man it was a great turnout rich franklin came up uh coleman was going to be there but he's in the hospital unfortunately um had a couple other guys who planned on coming but didn't

things didn't work out. But overall, yeah, it was a great time, man. I saw the gym. It looks so much bigger. You told me what you were doing up there. And I haven't obviously been up there since the renovation ended. But you told me you were taking the cage out of there. When I saw the videos and everything, I was like, my God, this looks like,

literally looks like a brand new gym. Yeah, it's a completely different gym now. We added a whole new room, the showers in finally, and expanded the mat space by a large portion, probably about 500 square feet total. Yeah, so it was a big project putting it all together. But you know, it kind of worked out. It's funny when things every now and then something works out the way you kind of planned it, right? Like I had the gym open and growing while I was still fighting.

And then the soon as I retired, I started putting time and energy into it. And it's just been blowing up ever since. So it's pretty good feeling, you know, and like, damn, my plan actually worked. Because it doesn't usually work the way you see it in your head. Well, I know you said, like, when you were fighting, it was really hard to, like, dedicate yourself to the gym because you're still training to fight.

And that you had to, whether people want to admit or not, fighting is a selfish sport. You have to be. Like, that's the only way you get ready for a fight is to be selfish. And you can't run a business simultaneously as you're getting ready for fights. It's hard or near impossible to do that. Usually when you hear guys do that, they own a gym,

but they're not the ones running it. Like they're the, you know, it's the such and such, you know, gym, but it's not them actually running it. I talked to Joe Lozond recently about that. Like, he's got his gym. He's going to reopen a second gym up in New England. And, you know, he's got his thing working down to a science now where he goes in. He only teaches certain days. And basically the rest of it's behind the scenes running the business.

But that's because Joe's not really fighting anymore. Like, he dedicates himself to his gym. You can't do that in the middle of a career. And I know you said that was like something you couldn't do. Now you can. Yeah, and I did as much as I could. But, you know, first, I don't consider fighting a selfish sport. It can be a selfish sport.

Selfish people make it a selfish sport. But just like running a business, you know, you just run a different business when you're fighting. You need to be focused on what you're doing. And, yeah, it's about you. But that doesn't mean it's selfish. You know, your reasons for doing it can be unselfish. Well, what I mean by selfish is like you're getting ready for a fight. Like you have to get ready for a fight.

You can't, you can't dole out your time to every, you know, someone's like, I need you to come train me for three hours. That's what I mean. You got to get ready for your fight. Which isn't selfish, right? No, but you know what I mean. I'm just saying, you got to be focused on that one thing. You can't be focused on your fight and then running a business and then doing this and doing that.

Because just being a fighter in general, you're already getting pulled in a lot of directions without running a business. Yeah, it's exactly right. But that's exactly my point. Like, even when running a business, like one thing that I've learned that is paid me more dividends. and probably anything else in run a business is learning how to say no. And because you get constant opportunities thrown at you, especially, you know,

being a more prominent figure in the community, right? Like people want to do a lot of things with me and just learning to say no, you know, turning down opportunities all the time and waiting for the ones that are actually meaningful. And some people might call that selfish, but it's really just,

it's not selfishness. It's being focused on the job and making sure that it's a quality job getting done. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. And to that point, you know, we talked, we did a whole episode after you announced your retirement, the decisions behind it and everything like that. And obviously it's been a couple months now. And again, to be clear, we say retirement. Retirement from fighting, not retirement from working. You're still very much working. I would say you're just busy now as you ever were when you're fighting just in a different way. But you had a purpose. And I remember, you know, not to rehash what you said back then, you know, just, you know, at that point when they called you for a fight, you kind of said, you know, just didn't get that same feeling. And you know, it was. time to walk away. Let me be the salt in the segue here and say this past week and, of course, at the UFC Abu Dhabi card, Tony Ferguson lost his eight straight fight.

I think we all know that's the end of his run in the UFC. Dana White said it. I can't imagine they're going to let him come back and try for nine in a row. That's just a bit. I don't care how you're losing. It's abysmal to do that. But Tony afterwards said, you know, he doesn't want to fight anywhere else, but he only wanted to leave one glove in the cage because I want to leave one just in case.

And now he's putting out another statement saying, yeah, I think people would still want to watch me fight, even if I'm not in the UFC. I like Tony. I've known Tony for a lot of years, a really good dude. And at his best, he was absolutely one of the two best lightweights in the world. It was him and Khabib. Sadly, we never got to see them fight. I'm curious, Matt, as a fighter.

And I know this, I'm putting you on the spot here by asking you this. Because I don't think it's, I've always said this. I never try to advocate for guys to retire because, you know, it's not really my place to do that. I will say I wish they would just because I don't want to see him get hurt. But as a fighter and as a guy who just recently retired, now you retire for different reasons, you were not on a nine-fight losing streak, a great-fight losing streak,

and people are, you know, screaming for you to retire. They were actually looking forward to you coming back and writing again. Kind of a two-part question. How do you feel about Tony, like in terms of like his just kind of unwillingness to let it go? He's 40 now, 40 or 41, I think, at this point. But also, like, what advice would you give him? because I think there is a struggle for every fighter. I don't care how successful you are,

a struggle to like let it go because you don't want to let it go. I don't think anyone wants to let it go. You just kind of have to. Yeah, it's a tough one, man. And, you know, I don't know Tony personally. So I think that there's a lot of personal answers in there when you're talking about giving someone advice

or, you know, how they should live our life and everything. But for the most part, I can really only speak about myself. the reason that I was able to retire is because, you know, it's just a more well-rounded person than that. Like, I have other things that fulfill me and give me reward in life more than just fighting. And my identity isn't attached to just solely being a fighter, even though it gets, you kind of have to remove yourself from the world, you know, and kind of be alone with yourself a little bit to realize that. At least I did because everywhere you go, that's what everybody places your identity as. Like, you know, everywhere I go, for instance, I was just at the state fair last weekend.

And, you know, I got to stop five or six times and, you know, people asking for autographs, pictures and, you know, pumping me up, like, asking me when I'm going to come back. And, you know, that fills a huge void, you know, when in your soul when you can say, yeah, dude, I'm coming back, you know. But when you have to tell them, like, no, dude, I'm not coming back. I'm done. you know like you feel like you just let that person down but but that's again it has to be internal and um you know to i guess to get a little bit deeper you know what what kind of helped me more than anything was it was just one quote from usashi and i'm probably going to get tattooed on me at some point and um everything is within and the um entire quote goes you know there's nothing outside of

yourself that's going to make you bigger richer stronger faster or better everything is within seek nothing outside of yourself. And I, that's kind of profound to me in the sense that, you know, that's as a fighter, that's what you need to learn about what's within yourself a little bit more and dig a little bit deeper into your own soul to discover, you know, who you are. And you're probably more than just a fighter. Now, if you are just a fighter, then it's fine. Go out there and keep fighting and, you know, fight till you die.

I have nothing against that. but for me I found a lot more. Do you think, because if I found one common theme in retirement for guys and girls I've talked to in the last few years, it's that having something, as you said, not you, you don't let fighting identify you, even though that's what you are known for in so many ways. But having that something to reach for outside of fighting. Like I talked to Frankie Edgar a few months ago. been retired for several months and he said yeah it doesn't it doesn't a day go by that I don't want to

fight like I want to fight I would miss fighting but you know I'm doing things with my kids I'm actually there to help my kid wrestle like I can be there every day for his wrestling practice I'm helping him he's opening a gym of his own he got into acting a little bit he's actually you know like not that frankie was ever a bad father I think frank he was an incredible dad but he could be at every cheerleading practice for my daughter gymnastics practice whatever it was I could be at this I can actually be my son's wrestling coach. Like I can actually go be his wrestling coach because I can have that time for him.

I remember Daniel Cormier when he retired, he's like, there's nothing that will ever replace that feeling of competition. Like that walking out to the octagon, no one I'm going to get a win, no I'm getting. There's nothing that can replace that. But he's like, for me, it was becoming a wrestling coach, doing work with the UFC, doing the broadcasting, so I'm still around the sport, I'm just not in the sport.

He had things to fill his life. Michael Bisp being saying, Michael business was like, you know, I'm going to do commentary, start his YouTube channel, start acting, things like that, to kind of fill that void, so to speak, of just not constantly being bombarded by fighting. Now, they all still train. I know Daniel still trains. I know Michael still trains.

I know Frankie still trains, but they just had to move on. Is that, do you feel like that is, I will say, listen, I know it's not a one-size-fits-all, but is there a little bit of a key component? Like, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, like, does he have, like, 18 businesses outside of fighting, and does he have, I don't know any of that. But do you really that's a common theme that feels like that's the one thing you got out? You got not even just like a plan B necessarily, just something that's going to keep you occupied

that doesn't necessarily involve you going to the gym twice a day and preparing for a fight. Yeah, and it's very difficult because when you're fighting, you know, especially the level Tony was fighting or, you know, even at that level I was fighting. I mean, you know, you can't have other things pulling your energy. away. So it has to be all in. And guys like Tony, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious. Like he's all in. You know, he's been all in for a long time. But so the question is, or the difficult part, I should say, is, you know, at what point do you stop being all in? Like, you still believe in yourself, right? You still go to the gym and you're winning rounds and you do it well, you're improving. So you still believe in yourself. Maybe your coaches, maybe your family, who,

whoever still believes in you. And it, you know, it is, for me, I don't know, I again, I could kind of always speak to myself because I don't know, Tony. But, you know, for me, it was like, I know that things are going to end. So, you know, it was like five years ago, six years ago, actually, to the day, today I opened my gym. You know, just knowing like, look, you know, it's going to come. Maybe it's 10 years from now.

And my gym's been here for 10 years. maybe it's five years from now which it ended up being or about yeah five five and a half but the question is like when do you start doing that because you know the moment that you start doing that you already setting yourself up to potentially lose right now you're taking even if it's only 10% of your energy like 10% of your energy is going somewhere else and now you're not putting 100% into just fighting and that's a difficult thing to do Again, with it being your identity, you're all in, you believe in yourself, and now you've got to take a little bit of that and start putting it towards the next thing. That's not easy.

Yeah. It kind of breaks my heart because I think Tony is, you know, like I said, at his best, he was one of the most ferocious competitors in there. And it sucks. We never got to see him and Kabib at their peak because I think that's still a fight. Like we all wish, we all wanted to see that fight back in the day, man. We all did. But, you know, watching Tony recently, like, you know, getting. And I'm not, listen, there's no shame in losing to King Green or losing to Michael Kiesa.

These guys are all good fire. Losing to Patty Pimbled. I mean, we just saw what Patty did to King Green himself. Like, there's no shame in losing the guys he's losing to. But I feel like the performances are not the performances that he would have had five years ago. And that's just age and time and, you know, your reaction time is a little slower, you know. And you know how fighting is, you know, a reaction time, you can half second slower in your opponent is the difference between winning and losing or winning and getting. or winning and getting knocked out.

I'm not saying he would have beat Patty Pimbleau five years. I'm not saying he would beat King Green five years ago. I'm not saying he would be Michael Kiesa five years ago. I'm saying I think it would have been a different fight five years ago. And for him to get taken down, had his back taken and got submitted pretty quickly by Michael Kiesa. It's just like I don't feel like that. I don't think we're getting the best Tony Ferguson anymore. And it's sad because like I wish good things for Tony.

I think Tony's a good dude. He's a family guys. get kids. Yeah, but he is. Like I said, man, time, you know, as they always say in the sport, man, time is undefeated. Father time is undefeated in the sport. He's 40 now.

I think the scary thing for a guy like Tony is it's not going to get better. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah. Well, the hard part, too, is that like, like, when you lose eight in a row, like, it doesn't matter where you're at in your career. Like, that's pretty much, okay, you should probably call it quits, right? It's like something isn't right.

Whatever it is. Like, if you lost your first. state or he lost your last state like you know if you had the problem is he had so many wins and so many I mean he was you know interim champion well what a 12 fight winning streak I think back in the day so he's you know he's like a cocaine addict like trying to reach that high again and it's you know you when you get you know eight fights it it doesn't matter like if you lost eight fights in a row if he had lost eight fights in a row at the beginning of his career his first eight fights like he would have quit most likely right like you would have been like

okay this is definitely not the sport for me i lost eight fights in row but because he's already had that high he's thinking okay i can get back to that but it's like cocaine you know and and it really is i mean that's walking into an octagon and beating another man's ass especially the way tony did where he just fucking rip people's souls out of their bodies i mean that is a high that you cannot get any anywhere else in any other way. But you can't chase that. You got to accept that, you know, that's the time. That was your season of your life.

And, you know, it's time to move on to a new season. I certainly have never competed at the level that you have or Tony has or any professional athlete. Certainly not like that. But if you play any sport, I don't care what it is. I remember when I played rec league softball years ago, there's a feeling of winning, man, that competition. it does feel it does fuel your soul in a certain way like it really does like that high and again

i'm being completely on nothing even not even on the same like not even the same sport not even the same level i'm just saying like competition in general i video games you win a video game you get a high like there's a winning fuels us competition fuels us all and and what you do if you if you're playing moral combat and you're scorpion and you lose eight times in row you're like i'm gonna try fucking raiden. Yeah, exactly. And so, and that's, and the problem is, is like, you know, fatality and mortal combat, you know, the problem is is when you're eight losses in the UFC and now you're talking about,

well, maybe I'll do something else. And for Tony, was that BKFC? Do we really want to see that for Tony? Like, is that really where we're at? Because I can't, I can't imagine PFL is going to rush out to sign a 40-year-old Tony Ferguson off eight straight loss and say come be in our welterweight tournament or something. Like, what does that, what does that do for them? Like, what does that do?

One championship? I mean, he has a name. Tony absolutely has a name. But what are you, like, if you, if you sign Tony Ferguson right now of eight losses in a row at 40 years old, you're basically saying, I want to milk the last little bit of name value out of you. I don't care about you. I just want to use your name to sell some tickets, sell a pay-per-view, sell a card. That's all I'm doing.

Because no one who actually cares about Tony Furrow. would say, let me bring you back to have you fight right now. That's just, listen, like, I'm not saying Dana White and those guys are altruistic with everything they do, but I think they're honest when they're saying, we just can't, we can't keep doing. They're same thing on a BJ Penn. They gave BJ Penn chance after chance after chance. Because BJ earned it, same way Tony earned it.

But at some point, enough's got to be enough. And if you're signing Tony Ferguson now, you're basically saying I want to sell some tickets and I want to drain the last little bit of life out of you. So I could sell some take and sell some pay-per-views. Because you're not doing it because you care about Tony Ferguson. You're not. You're just not at this point. You can't be.

Yeah, that's exactly right, you know. I think they gave Sam Alvey. How many fights did he lose in a row? Yeah. A bunch. A bunch. At least in Sam's case, like, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to defend it. At least in Sam's because he was like 34 doing it.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, Tony's 40. Like, Tony is, you know, he's of the age now where you would be, even if you're on like a you know you're your three and three in your last six like you're still probably contemplating that it's you know about that time because generally speaking you know heavy weights have a little bit more of a shelf life but typically speaking like you know when you get in the 40s you're starting to tick away towards the end like not saying you can't fight there are the randy coutors and the matt browns who might be on 40 and do it at a very high level but you i would acknowledge this like most guys don't like most guys don't and can't maintain that at that age for whatever reason Right. You know? And what sucks too is the reason, even when he was, he lost like six in a row. I mean, he lost a fucking studs, you know, like Olivera, Baneo Derrush, and guys like this, where you're like, okay, like he just not at that, you know, top one or two percent anymore, right? Like he's an average UFC fight at this point, right?

He's old. He's worn down, things like that. and not take anything away from Patty or or Bobby King Green but like those were supposed to be wins for him you know I mean those were supposed to be the ones to get him back in the wind column right maybe even did he fight Nate Diaz too I think yeah he fought Nate Diaz got yeah these were supposed to be like his chances to get back

yeah I think you know particularly like you know his last two or three and that's I think when you kind of know like all right you know what are you going to do go fight you know the number 20 guy like you know i mean like the guy that you're really supposed to be beating them you know what i mean yeah like he's not he's he he built big enough name he's not going to be getting easy fights you know so it's it's it's a really tough position for him and the moral the story is yeah tony needs to call it quits and needs to find something else to do and um you know maybe should open a gym you know i'd be happy to help him

Yeah, Tony is a good dude, man. I just, and I think the hardest part about this to kind of close out on this, I think the hard part for Tony is, is like when guys, like, when guys are getting knocked out a lot, it's easier to say, dude, your health is on the line, like, you're risking brain damage. Like, your risking brain damage is just fighting, but you know what I mean. Like, you're risking serious health when you're getting concussed, like every time you get knocked out. His last few fights, he's been, he got outrested by Patty, he got submitted by King Green, He got submitted by Michael Kiesa.

So he's not taking like a ton of damage. It's not like the Gachie fight where I felt like, dude, this guy is not going to be the same after that fight. I mean, I think that was the one where he wasn't the same after that fight, right? It wasn't at the beginning of his losing streak. That was the interim title fight. He lost that one and it was all downhill from there. Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty obvious sign what happened, right? I mean, Gagie beat the living hell out of him and it's been downhill ever since.

Yeah, but I think that's also, like I said, I think that's a tough part Those last few fights. He hasn't been getting beat up, but he got submitted. So it's like, ah, if I just tweak a couple things and, you know, work on my takedowns, working my defense, I think that's a harder pill to swallow because, like, you know, when, like, when, like, when BJ was getting knocked out, like, it was bad. Like, we're just like, dude, this is not, like, this is getting really bad. Like, you're getting knocked out.

And then when he got hill hooked, like, he was a jihitsu guy, like, it's just, but I don't know, maybe that's, I don't know what, I don't know what the answer is. I just, I genuinely like Tony and I remember what Tony did at his peak and we're just not getting that Tony anymore. And I don't think that, and I think at 40 that Tony's never going to come back. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And that's a, like you said, it's a tough pillar to swallow. But I hope Tony Ferguson finds some fulfillment and something else in his life. That's about all I can say.

Yeah. Now, one of the reasons of the many reasons, I love having you as a co-ist on this show back because I love getting the fighter's perspective. But beyond being a fighter, as we mentioned, you're also a gym owner and you're also a coach. Now, you've talked about this many times before you retired. You said, when I'm done fighting, I think I'll be a better coach and I was a fighter, teaching and passing along my knowledge to the next generation of martial artists. Now, you've been honest and said, like, you're not necessarily talking about training a gym full of UFC fighters, but obviously you do have guys that have fought and you've cornered guys in the UFC. There's been this real weird situation lately between Al Jermaine Sterling.

and Marabda Wally and his head coach Tim Welch, who Tim Welch used to be a fighter. I think he fought in Bellator a couple times. I know he fought in the ultimate fighter. He never made the EOC, but he was, you know, he fought for several years. I think his last fight was like five or six years ago. He retired and became a full-time coach. And now, of course, he's coaching the best bands went to sport in Sean O'Malley. But they've been going back and forth lately.

Like, you know, I think it all started with Tim was yelling at Aljo during the, during the fight with Sean O'Malley. And that kind of pissed off Morabdi. he was like yelling, like talking trash to Aljo during the fight from the corner. Like he's like saying things to Al Jermaine and during the fight. And I pissed off Marab and Rob's like, dude, it's on side. I see you, I'll slap you. And Tim's like, you know, I'd like you to try. Again, I'm paraphrasing.

I don't know the guy. I'm not going to read every tweet between these people. And then last week they had a photo shoot for UFC 306 and Marab kind of got in Alge's or gotten Sean Amali's faces. Like, I'm just trying to explain to you why your coach pissed me off. And he's like, you want to fight him, fight him. I invite you to do it. And then Tim Welch does an interview and says, you know,

I'm not going to be punked by a 5 foot four short guy. I'm 195. I hate when people ran off the stats. That to me, he's like, dude, I'm 6'3 foot 3 and 250 pounds. And dude, who gives a fuck? But he rattled off his stats. I've been lifetime martial artists. I'm this and 195 pounds.

He wants to fight. I'm getting your perspective on this, Matt, because you've been in both worlds. You are a fighter, a very successful fighter. you've been a coach, and you've been a coach for a lot of years. How do you feel about this whole dynamic of, like, coaches getting involved in the fights? Because Tim was a fighter. Like, legitimately, he was a fighter. It wasn't like he was just, he's not Greg Jackson, who was only ever a coach.

He was a fighter, so I'm giving credit for that. But how do you feel about the coaches getting this involved in, like, the trash talk with other fighters? Honestly, like, I kind of agree with what Sean Amalley said. Like, fight him then, bro. you know and look if let them go at it but that's just kind of way that I handle things I'm like look if two people want to fight just let them fucking fight you know like like I hate when like two guys get into a fight and everybody starts breaking it up it's like dude they wanted to fight let them fight like someone's going to get their ass kicked in someone's going to get their head kicked

in like that was their choice like they put themselves at risk let them do it so I say let the two fucking go out it I guess what they say fighting solves everything. Fighting solves everything. And look, I'd pick Marab to beat him, too. I don't care for he's 200 pounds or, you know, I'll juice up, whatever. Like, Marab is a fucking monster, bro. Like, like, that's a tough, as a, that's a big mountain to climb right there, man.

Mrab's a bad dude. So I just say, I say just let him fight. My only issue with it is that, like, now you're coaching. If you want to be a, and you were a fight. fighter. Tim was a fighter. He's legitimately was a fighter. Then go be a fighter again. If you want to fight this dude, go be a fighter. Stop being a coach.

Get back in the cage and work your way and fight Miranda Wallace. Really, that's what you wants about. I just, this whole thing, like... Boy, didn't they say they wanted to fight him? He was just talking trash, right? And they said they wanted to fight him. He said, he was talking trash, and he said, if I see I'll slap it. He's like, I invite you to try. It was the whole

Twitter thing. Yeah, they tell you to do. Yeah, just talking shit. And now he's like, you know, I'm not going to be hung by some five foot four guy or whatever. I'm just like, dude, just, it just, it makes my brain hurt. Like I just, yeah, just go fight. As you said, go be a fighter and fight the guy or just stop talking about it because your guy, Sean O'Malley, is the best band to wait in the sport. He's about to go fight Marab de Wiles really.

Why are you involved? Like, I don't, it just doesn't, I just don't see a reason for it. It just, to me, it's like, Sean O'Malley should be the one talking trash to Marab. You know what I mean? And Aljo, I understand Aljo is on the side here, but Aljo is also very much a fighter. I get it. But, like, Marab's, you know, Marab's coaches, you know, he gets coached a lot by Eric Nixick. I know he gets coached by Matt Sarah, Ray Longo.

Like, I don't hear Ray Longo out there saying, I'm going to slap you when I see you. Like, I just, dude, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion. You can absolutely have an opinion, but you're, you can definitely see Matt Sarah saying that, though. Maybe, maybe. But I just, I'm just like, dude, let your guy speak for himself. saying is like you got the best you got a guy who could legitimately go out there and knock this guy's head off you're predicting to him to knock the guy's head off in the first round just let him go do that you don't need to get involved and say you're going to do it let your guy do it show them out is the

guy let him go do it i i know what you're saying it's a little bit immature on his part like he could be the bigger man and you know like for one like talking trash to the corner to begin with is a little bit immature and you know he doesn't need to be acting that way but um you know if he wants to then you should have to deal with the consequences and if the consequences are Marab and Al Jemaine want to fight him and he's the downforth and they should just fight on the street

on the concrete. Here's the other thing. If Tim was concerned about the size, he's like, I'm not going to get punked by a 5 foot four dude and I'm 195 or whatever. They got a teammate Chris Wyman. He's about that size. Let him go fight Chris Wyman. Chris is around. He's a 205 pounder. Let him go

fight Chris. That's their teammate. Yeah, it's kind of funny when He says something like, I'm not going to get punked by a little guy. Like, I was like, but you were the one talking shit instigating it. He's like, what do you mean? You know, like, you just expect them to not say anything back at all and just back down. People are strange. Like, I don't know.

But I'm with you, though. Like, do you want to fight? That's what I'm saying. Like, if you're going to be a coach, be a coach. You're going to be a fighter. Be a fighter. Like, if you want to be a fighter again. You're saying, don't act like you're a fighter if you're not a fighter.

Just be a fighter. Yeah, if you want to be a fighter, like stop telling people you're going to kick their ass, get back in there and do it. Like, just do it. Like, I don't, because like I said, I just, to me, I think it's a bad look on Sean O'Malley. That like, you know, he's getting ready to fight this dude. This is his coach who's trying to fight him. Like, it's just. Right.

You know what I mean? Well, I like how Sean reacted to it. Sean was like, yeah, go do it, bro. Go fight him. I just, it's not, like I said, I don't, I just don't see. I guess my thing is I just don't see a need for it. Like, I don't see a need for the coach to be like, I'm going to kick your ass or come try to kick my ass. Dude, Sean O'Malley is the best man to wait in the sport.

Let him go kick his ass. That's what you really want, because you want him to defend his style. Like, do you want to fight Marab de Wiles really in a street fight? And then you cost your guy like a $4 million payday because you wouldn't fought him in the street? Is that what you want? That, too. Yeah, true that. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. I said, let him fight, man. But, man, when is that Amali Marabai? September 14th, the U.S. The Noce U.S.C. The one's the sphere. Yeah, the sphere. Yeah. That's going to be a good fight, man. I'm looking forward to that. That's annoying.

What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. Way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply. That's a really good one. Yeah, this weekend, obviously, U.

Omar and Magger, Red Off, got a big win over Corey Sanhagan. and know obviously you're pretty close with Corey from training out in Colorado. I've been a big believer in Umar for a long time, man. He went out there and did the damn thing. Didn't get, he got shut down on like five of 15 takedown, something like that and he still went out there and won the fight. Close rounds,

don't get me wrong. Corey had his moments in there, but super impressive of Umar to go out and get the way he did. And now I think we're kind of geared up for Umar to get the winner of O'Malley and, and Marab. I love that. I love when you have that already set up. Like we know what's going on.

and the winner already has their next opponent already set up. Yeah, that was beautiful. Man, what a great fight. I mean, that was just high levels it gets right there. I mean, I think Corey's grappling has just improved significantly. And I think a few years ago, I think Umar probably, especially on the ground, like, really put it to Corey pretty good and probably finished him at some point. But before he's grappling, I mean, it's just come leaps and bounds. And, I mean, he's just that guy.

He's in the gym, training. He's a smart guy. Works hard. So, but what, just, God damn, what a high-level fight that was, man. What an exciting fight to watch. And not exciting in the sense there was, like, blood everywhere. And guys just banging it out, but just skill after skill, after skill, and just high-level movements and scrambles.

But Um, but Um, Ruh, really impressed me. I thought for sure he was going to gas out after, like, the first round with him, you know, because he did start getting his, take down, shut down a little bit, but he's working really hard for him. And Corey seemed like he was picking up some momentum in the stand-up and the striking, starting to land some shots and find some openings. But Umar just adjusted and really just, I thought just gutted it out really well, like just really showed a lot of determination and stuck to his game plan and kept chipping away

the whole time. I thought it was a brilliant performance by Omar. You know as well as I do a lot of times when a wrestler game. gets their takedown, shut down, almost breaks their spirit a little bit, and then also breaks their cardio. He's not a wrestler naturally, right? Well, he started as a striker, and then, of course, he's Khabib's cousin, so, you know, they trained him in wrestling there.

So he wasn't like a wrestler, wrestler growing up, but I mean, he grew up with Khabib and Islam. So he's a wrestler. I mean, he's a wrestler. He's just not like, that wasn't his, that wasn't his originally, he's originally a striker. But, yeah, but you know how it is, like, when you're, when you're known for that and you go for that many takedowns, you get shut down, a lot of wrested out. a lot of wrestlers kind of like, A, they get tired for one, and it is very exhausted to go for takedowns and not get them.

And also, B, you kind of get your spirit broken a little bit. And you're like, God, I can't get this guy down. Dude, I was, listen, I was so impressed by Corey's improved grappling. That was leaps and bounds from when he lost Algeman years ago. Like, it was night and day. But Umar's ability to adjust when he didn't get the takedown to continue to come after him and win a lot of the striking exchanges, that blew me away. Because I was like, dude, because after like the second round when he kept getting shut down, down, I was like, man, this could go bad for him in a hurry because he's going to get tired

and he's going to get his will broken a little bit that he can't get the take down. Corey's going to start throwing those knees up the middle. He's going to start throwing the elbows and it's going to get ugly. Not only did he not do that, I thought Umar's best rounds were rounds four and five. I thought that's when he actually did better. I think that's actually the clearest rounds of the fight. I was blown away. And listen, I'm an Umar guy.

I've been an Umar believer for a long time. But even I was like, damn, this is a dangerous fight. And I mean, blew me away. Like that is a legit fight where I say that's the number one contender. Like that's the guy deserves the title shots. Yeah, he absolutely earned it and proved that he is the number one contender. And like I said, just the adjustments that he made. And he started making Corey hesitate.

And I could at the beginning, I guess, you know, Corey started to pick up a little bit of momentum, you know, sort of in the middle parts of like rounds one and two from what I remember. And it looked like, you know, if Corey can, keeps stopping these takedowns, or maybe his rounds two and three, because I think Umar got him down the first round for a little bit. But anyway, you know, he started picking up a little bit of momentum, and you can see Umar adjust to it and just change up what he was doing a little bit. And it started making Corey hesitant. And, and, you know, both their corners said all the right things. You know,

at the end, they were, they were urging Corey to go forward, put pressure and swing for the fences. And you could tell he wanted to. He was like, I know that I need. this and Corey's that guy that will do that too like he'll take the chance but umar adjusted so well and and just shut down his opportunities to do that and even though the takedowns weren't necessarily landing for umar I think what what happened was is while Corey was playing really good defense I think it also negated him from throwing his offense like he was so focused on shutting umar's offense that he never truly let his offense like shine because we know how dynamic Corey Sanhagen is, I think that's the other weapon the wrestling did.

He didn't land the takedowns, but he made Corey keep thinking about it. And that was, that's as a deterrent as anything because Corey's so dynamic with like the jumping knees and the kicks. A lot of that, he didn't throw it. And I think a lot of that was because he knew if he caught it and didn't get it, Umar's going to grab it and throw him to the ground. And so like he didn't throw a lot of the dynamic strikes we normally see him throw. That's the other weapon, even when you don't get the takedown, just that threat of the

takedown. And Umar kept going for it. Like, Umar didn't give up. on the takedown. He just adjusted to where he could do other things to win in the fight. A high level. I mean, I just, that's not the fight at the end of the year. At the end of the year, we're not going to say, oh, man, that was Gachey Holloway. No, we're not going to talk about it. But when you're not high level skills, that's as high level as you get.

All around. And when you talk about him making Corey hesitate, and that's exactly what I was talking about. And it wasn't just Umar's takedowns. I mean, he has so much on the feet, too, so many awkward things. Like, if you just struck with them the whole time, like, you still have to be really leery of everything that he's doing and be really aware of everything. Keep your eyes open and not make any big mistakes. But then adding in those takedowns, I mean, and his timing on him when he did go for the takedowns, when he did go for the punches. I mean, I thought it just showed really high fight IQ.

And I mean, I guess we could sit here and pump this fight up all day. But I think it was one of the best fights I've seen in a long time. So what's the bet? I'm not asking you what's going to happen because we'll talk about that later. What is the fight you'd rather see? Not who's going to win? What fight would you rather see? Umar versus Marab or Umar versus O'Malley?

That's a good question because I'd like to see either one of them, but I'd definitely say O'Malley. Maybe not definitely, but I think I would rather see O'Malley just because O'Malley is also tricky and he's, you know, sort of a Corey Sanhagen type in a lot of ways, right? Like, you know, a long, lanky guy with a lot of tricks and really good stand-up and, you know, really good timing, really good accuracy. and I'd like to see how Umar kind of approaches that and how he adjust throughout that fight and how Sean would adjust. Whereas I think with Marab, like you kind of just know what you're going to get.

Of course, he could always change it up too and, you know, surprise us all, but, you know, Marab's going to come forward and be spamming take downs

and, you know, might get a few of them. You know, the exciting thing about watching a Marab Umar fight would be those scrambles, right? Because,

like, they're both such high level grapplers and wrestlers. That would be, the exciting part. And I think it would, yeah, I think it won't be excited, but I would rather see Sean O'Malley, I think. I'm on the other side because it reminds me, this is going to be a weird comparison

when I say this. It kind of reminds me a little bit when Jake Shields fought Damien Maia in the UFC. You know the old adage. We get two grapplers together. It suddenly becomes a kickboxing match. And that's true to a certain extent. But there are some guys no matter what kind of opponent they face, they're going to be the same guy. Like, you knew, like Jake Shields has never been a striker.

his boxing is pretty bad. Damien Maia's never been a striker. He's never really developed that part of his game to the same level. So when they fought, I was like, they're going to get in some grappling exchanges, and it's going to be really fun to watch these two go at it. And it was one of my favorite fights that year. Five rounds of those guys scrambling and takedowns and reversals,

and it was just so much action. I loved it. Marab is who Marab is. He's going to spam takedowns. He's going to come after you hard for five rounds and never stop. Umar's a little bit more dynamic. I think we can all agree on that. so he doesn't necessarily need to take down,

but he's got incredibly good wrestling. I would just be fascinated to see how that style would clash with each other because, you know, we thought, we thought when Marab fought Henry Soudo, we're like, well, here's a gold medalist wrestle. Like, can he deal with this? Marab took him down a bunch of times. So, like, I'd be curiously, what would-

Powerful ways, too. Yeah, like, what would-U-M-R-R-W-R-D do if he got to take it? Yeah. Henry didn't just fuck up and fall over. Like, Marab took him down, two different things, right? Yeah, so I'd be curious, like, because I don't think Marab is going to just change who he is because he's fighting another good wrestler.

Like, he's going to go out and make you defend takedowns, and I'd be curious to see, like, how would Umar adjust to that? So that, to me, is kind of fascinating. But I agree. I mean, listen, I'm not going to complain. I love it because if O'Malley wins, O'Malley Umar is a great fight, if Marab wins, Marab and Umar's a great fight. I love either one of those, and I love that it's already set up that way because we know

September, the winner that's already got. the number one contender and a legit this isn't a a colby covington situation where we're like colby's getting the title shot why is colby getting the title shot i don't know corby's getting a title shot umar has earned it well part of why i would say that too is because look if sean o'malley beats marab he's he has to show some really high level wrestling yeah so let's let's see if he can do the same against umar you know what i mean like if he beats it's marab like i don't think there's any way that marab just stands in front of him and sean amalley you know just picks him apart on the feet right like like marab is going to do take

this we know marab is a high level wrestler so again how umar would approach that fight you know seeing like already you know he been beating marab like that you know depending on how he would beat him i don't know but um that's what kind of makes me think i'd rather see him fight sean That would say volumes for Sean O'Malley if he's able to beat Marab. I don't think he's going to beat Marab, but if he's able to stop his takedowns or even just avoid his takedowns, so to speak, and find shots. I mean, because that's how he has to win, right? Like, I don't think he can wrestle or grapple with Marab. Like, if he ends up on his back, he's not going to submit him, most likely.

So, like, he has to basically do the old school sprawl and brawl. And if he's able to do that against Marab, that may. makes a fight with Umar really, really interesting. Yeah, and I like your point there. Like if he, if he beats, if he beats Marab, it's not going to, because Marab got out boxed. He's going to go, he's got to stop takedowns and, you know, knock him out coming in something like that. So, yeah, we're going to learn a lot about Sean Amali's defense because you know Marab is not,

again, that's what I like about Marab. He's not going to take away who he is. He's going to come after you. He's going to put a pace on you and he's going to go for 9,000 takedowns inside five rounds. But I love it because, and we say that. And we say that, but, like, like, you. Like we've been watching UFC for, what, you know, 20 plus years now. And it never, you just can't predict anything in this fucking sport.

Like, Matt might go out there and try to kickbox with them. You know, it's like you just can't predict. Like, this sport is just way too insane. Yeah, absolutely. But on, you know, based on what we know, that's what we think will happen. But either way, either way, I love the Numer is the number one guy because that's such an intriguing match either way. And I do love it when we have this kind of perfect setup because now there's a, a story to build after the fight.

Like we know O'Malley and Marab are going to fight in September, and then right away, we got a story to go for next because one of them is going to fight Umer and Maghamatoff. And I think, you know, Umar has been kind of like the guy I've had my eye on since he arrived in the U.S. He said, this guy's going to be a champion one day. You can never tell for sure because obviously you've got to see how the rest of the division plays out who's champion and all this kind of things. I mean, you know, a year ago, Islam's like, I'm going to be a two division champ.

I want to go up to 170. And now he just said recently, like, not going to do it now because I don't want to fight my guy Bilal. So you've kind of taken away my two-division hopes. That's how the sport goes. Like, you know, like six months ago, eight months ago, after he beats Porre, whatever it was in May, he beats Porier. You know, we're thinking Armin, and then maybe he really does go to 170 because who else is really out there for him. But now, Bilau's champion.

He doesn't want to fight Bilau. They're guys, they're boys. So he just said, like, you've taken away my hope of being a two-division champion. That's how this sport works, man. You never know. Yes, a lot of drama all the time, right? That's what we love about it. Real quick before we get out of here, we kind of have a bit of the map laid out for the rest of the year,

and I want to kind of throw out some ideas to you, Matt, and I just want to kind of get your, I want to pick your brain real quick on this. So September, we got Marab and Amali, and we got Valentina and Grasso. That's the other title fight. October, I don't know for sure, but it's looking like it's going to be Raquel Pennington and Giuliana Pena, and maybe one other one. I'm not really sure. Of course, next weekend we've got Israel Adasania and Dracus Duplice at the end.

At the end of October, we got Ilya and Max Holloway. That's official now. And Hamza and Robert Whitaker, November, we know it's going to be Steepa and John Jones. That's the fight we've all been talking about in December. It looks like December is going to be Connor McGregor and Michael Chandler. Now, I'm not saying it's a done deal. I'm just saying hypothetically, that's the fight. Now, the reason I'm laying all these out for you, Matt, these are all the title fights main events.

I'm not talking about the other fights. And I'm kind of leaving Whitaker and Chameh have off there, too, because that's not a title fight. It's just a co-main event. So if all those fights are just named Israel Dracus, all those kind of things, what's your favorite fight left for the rest of this year? If you had to pick one of those fights, which one are you most excited about? And that's not, by the way, that's not me saying what's the best. It's just the one you're most excited about. Which one are you most excited about?

I think it's hard to pass up Israel Dracus. Only because I'm such a huge Israel fan. and I want to see if he's back to, you know, kind of being him, I'm not saying he hasn't been himself, but, you know, back to his former glory. And, you know, I'm going to be cheering for him. I hope he goes out there and wins. And, you know, nothing against Dreykis. I like that guy too.

But I think that's also a very interesting. But personally, I'm just such a huge Israel fan that I just want to see him get out there and become a champion again. Yeah. For me, I said the idea, it's, why I brought up this question. For me, it's Ilya and Max Holloway, man. I am so excited for that fight.

That is such a high level fight. Everyone max did to Gachi and what Ilya did to Volcanowski. Oh, man, I'm excited for that one. Yeah, that's a fucking good one, too, man. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, wow. I mean, that's a hell of a lineup. All of those fights that you just mentioned.

I mean, this is a hell of a upcoming year that we have for the UFC, and I'm excited for the whole thing. I mean, it's kind of funny. Dracus and Israel next weekend, we'll break down the fight on next week's podcast to give our picks. But that one almost feels like it's slipping under the radar a little bit,

which is odd because Israel's one of the biggest stars in our sport. It almost feels like he's just kind of like been in the lab, just like working and not really like trying to build the fight necessarily, which I'm fine with. He's, you know, he can do what he wants. But it's like, that is such a great fight.

But we've kind of, it's kind of slipped under the radar a little bit with everything else going on. We've kind of, also we've forgotten about Dracus and Israel. We'll get really amped up next week for it but it's kind of weird like that is such a big fight but it's kind of kind of quietly slipping under the radar right now and I think all the other final too especially with all the history but between the two of them and how much trash they've talked to each other and how much they dislike each other and um but I don't know what you think about this but it seems

I don't know if this is just my own personal feeling but it feels like they don't pump up fights for as long as they used to either of course we have more cards all the time but I feel like it used to be you know three four weeks out like you're already thinking about you know a certain fight coming up and you know they're pumping up they're showing the countdowns and all these different things and now it's kind of like you know the week of the fight like it gets pumped up really big and then you know on to the next it is it really is and I think part of that comes down to the success the UFC's had lately where they're just printing money like they they show up in Louisville, they show up in St. Louis with like cars that should not sell.

Let's be honest. Do not have big main events, not big names, no title fights, and they're selling out and doing record breaking gates. I think the UFC is just on such a run right now that they're just, they know their formula. Like they're going to, because this weekend's card is pretty bad. It's Marchine Tyburi against Sergei's feedback. I'm sorry.

Not very many people are getting excited for that. I'm way more excited about Olympic wrestling happening right now. I'm way into Olympic wrestling. That's my event for this week. But it's almost like they know. They know they know they can start pumping it up on Sunday, put out the countdown, start putting out in bed, and people are going to get into it.

And by Friday, we're all going to be frothing at the mouth for Dracus and Israel. So it's like they kind of understand their formula a little bit now. Yeah. And I guess, you know, the UFC itself is such a monster brand now, too. Like, if they just show a UFC event, like they're going to get tons of, I don't know, tons of eyeballs tons of attention yeah what uh what wrestling are you most looking forward to the

olympics this week anybody in particular you're looking at you're looking at keeping eye on um yeah that's a that's a good question um i'm trying to remember i think spencer lee yeah yeah that's probably the one of yeah that i'm thinking of is probably going to be the most exciting. 57 kilograms, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, he's the one of the lightest weight guy. Spencer Lee, it's Spencer Lee, Zane Rutherford, it's 57, 63, 74 is Kyle Dake, 86 is Aaron Brooks, 97 is Kyle Snyder, and 1-25 is Mason-Paris. That's the freestyle team.

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, Spencer Lee just, I mean, God, he just gets better every time he goes out there and his first Olympic game. So, yeah, I'm excited to see how he does. And, you know, I think he can definitely get a goal. So, I mean, all these guys definitely can. But that's an under the radar pick. I dig it because I was going to say, you know, mine has got to be my guy,

Kyle Snyder. That's been my dude for, since he got to Ohio State. I, you know. And this year's so intriguing, too, because he won gold, he won silver. And now this year, Saddialaya isn't around, but he's got Ahmed Tadzadinov, who, blitzed him at the World Championship Blasher beat him 11-0.

It's super intriguing, you know what I mean? And depending on how the draw goes, I mean, they could meet earlier in the tournament. We don't know. So I'm fascinated by the potential of that. I mean,

I'd love to see a Snyder-Tesadino finals. That would be great, but I have no idea if that's actually going to happen. So it's interesting, man. You know Kyle's my guy, so I'm always going to be rooting for him. Kyle Dake, 33, probably his last chance in Olympics.

You know, that's going to be interesting. Aaron Brooks. beat David Taylor to get to the Olympics, the gold medalist in the last? I forgot about Aaron Brooks. That was going to be the other one that I was, yeah, now that you, because I just forgot about him. That would be the other pick. Yeah, I mean, what a fucking athlete he is, huh?

Dude, I mean, unbelievable. And, you know, it's crazy. It's like he's favored to win, even though he doesn't have a lot of international experience, but you beat David Taylor twice in a row. You're going to be fucking favored to win because David Taylor's a monster, one of the best American wrestlers ever. and to go out there and do that to him. Like Aaron Brooks, they're like, yeah, okay.

So it's interesting, man. And then my, probably my favorite story of the Olympics this year is actually tomorrow is the gold medal match. So by the time our episode airs, her gold medal match is probably going to be starting. But Amit Allure, 20 years old, has a chance to become. She went out and absolutely just demolished her opponents today. She just blanked the, she beat the number one ranked woman in her weight class, 10 to 2, then won her next two matches by a combined score of 18 to nothing. Oh, wow.

and you're for her. Yeah, Sarah McMahon's are coached, the former UFC fighter is her coach. Oh, nice, nice. Yeah. Also know that my boy, Meehan Lopez. Oh, dude. I know he got to the finals.

I don't know if the finals were today or tomorrow. Tomorrow, tomorrow. Gold medal matches tomorrow. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, so, you know, not too many people can say they trained with the greatest wrestler in history, but I got video proof of getting my ass kicked by Mian Lopez.

You train with Meehan Lopez. Yeah, I posted a video on my Instagram. I remember when you went down to Cuba to train, but I didn't, I don't remember you train with him. Yeah, I'll text you the video of it. I posted on my Instagram a couple of,

maybe like a year or two ago, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I mean, like you've never felt anything like that in your life. This guy, I mean, his warm up, you know, he's 300 pounds when he comes to,

he just comes into cut weight. His warm up, he's doing backflips down the mat, like a gymnast, you know, and he comes over and, you know, we wrestle a little bit. And I remember at one point, like, he grabbed my wrist.

And I remember, like, trying to peel his hand off. And I grabbed his thumb, you know, with my whole hand, you know, had his thumb. And I couldn't move it. And I was like, this is my hand against your thumb. Like, what am I supposed to do? Like, if you want to rape me, I can't even stop you. So what's wild is, is I don't follow Greco. I'll be honest.

I just don't follow Greco. I'm just not into it like I impressed on. But, uh, I, when I found out, I was like, he's a four-time gold medalist going for a fifth gold medal this year, 41, about to be 42 in two weeks. He beat the number one guy already for Moran. He beat him in the second round. But what, and I heard the story today we're talking about when he was wrestling.

It was Jordan Burroughs and the other commentator were talking about like, he wasn't even going to compete this year. And then he's just like, you know what? I'll go do it for one more medal. And then he just kind of gets off the couch, trains for a few months. And he goes, and now he's fucking wrecking the Olympics again. Like, dude, that is insane to me. Yeah. So when I was down there, they were, he only came to the gym, I think twice the entire time that I was down there.

They told me, like, he never trains until he wants to cut weight. It's amazing. Like, I went and partied with him one day. They were partying. Like, I was training pretty hard, so I wasn't partying. But, I mean, he's just chugging rum. And he literally picked me up over his head and lifted me up over his head. and then his friend came over and both of them held me and me and held me with one hand

and was chug and rump in the other hand and it was just absolutely insane I mean he's a true superhuman you've you train with a lot of wrestlers so I don't want you to like I'm not asking you insult anyone or like you know say one guy's better than the other whatever but obviously every day in the gym is a humbling experience how humbling was it going with mehan Lopez. Well, I kind of, I mean, I was pretty humble going into it. Like, I kind of knew what I was getting into. It was kind of like a silly little play thing, you know, like, I knew I didn't have a chance. But, you know, it was extra humbling once you actually feel it, right? And you're like, you don't really, I mean, it literally felt like you're wrestling a gorilla. And you're just like,

like, you could literally do anything you wanted to me. And I mean, he, I, I mean, he, I, I've seen him wrestle with some of the freestyle guys, too, like, just playing around. And, like, he knows how to defend the legs. And we were talking a little bit after. And he actually wanted to move to America and do MMA. But he's got family there. And, you know, he's like a god there and all this stuff. So, you know, it's never going to happen.

But, you know, I mean, what a nice guy is. That's what people don't know about him. He's just a little kid, basically. Like, he just loves what he does, has fun in the gym the whole time he's there. but I said he was only even though he was only there like two or three times I remember but just a he's a huge daddy bear man like one of the nicest guys I've ever met that's awesome I love hearing that yeah that's great man what a cool story 41 years old about to be 42 going for his fifth goldman no one's ever done that before five gold medals no one's ever done that before in wrestling Carolyn didn't do that Carolyn was three and one one one he lost the gardener in his last 11th he was three gold medals and one silver that's I mean greatest Greco Roman wrestler ever I mean how do you not give him that with that five gold medals i mean already was four i mean that's pretty hard to beat already but five i mean good lord yeah yeah i mean i think he's personally i think he's already surpassed caroline because a lot of people said that he didn't because he got a bronze

medal in the world's one year but when you kind of learn the inside scoop of things which i being in cuba i ended up kind of learning about is you know they'll actually sell their medals because they can get paid a lot of money from other countries to throw the match. And in Cuba, they don't really get shit. You know, I mean, Mihayan, I think it's taken care of pretty well. But, you know, the vast majority of them, even as well as he's getting taken care of, they're just not taking care of well still, you know, like. So, you know, he says a match and could get, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars, right?

and so it's like pretty well known that the bronze match that he that he or the bronze medal that he has was a sold match and we all know that he would have won you know what I'm saying so in my opinion like he is better than Carolyn I'm not going to mention any names but I've heard similar stories the guys out of Cuba before I'm not going to say names because I don't want to toss accusations around but I've heard similar stories so you're not like you're not alone in that I've definitely heard that as well it's like well known in the uh I think in the wrestling circles, at least in Cuba, it's well known. Yeah.

So I actually stayed with a guy, you know, I won't tell us out of names either, but he got caught for selling a match. And he was kicked off the team for it. And, you know, it lived a different life than everyone else. But like, it's a very, like, well-known. So if you go through, like, all the, you know, when Cuba was in their prime, you know, it's all silver medals. Like, there's like, you get, like,

one gold medal here and there, you know what I mean? But it's like almost all silver medals because they're just selling them. Yeah, it's wild, man. But he's a beast, man. Like I said, I wasn't super familiar with him. Please post that video or send me that video. I want to see it now. That's awesome.

That's great. He's got the gold medal match tomorrow. Meena Lour going for gold tomorrow, first American who will win. She'll definitely win a medal. She's either going to win a silver or gold. I think she's going to win gold. And then freestyle is later this week. That picks up later this week.

So we've been doing full coverage over an MMA fighting, which is pretty cool. So that's going on right now. And so, yeah, that's my big stuff for this week is wrestling, man. Don't get me wrong. I love the UFC. I love everything's going on in the combat sports world. But this week, I'm 110% all about wrestling. Yeah, and I think they're showing it on Peacock, right?

Yep, Peacock. Well, I think the gold medal matches are going to be on USA Network, if I'm not mistaken. And the streaming is all going to be. It's also on Peacock. They're doing both. But, yeah, I think the gold medal matches are going to be on USA as well on TV. Yeah, I was trying to figure out this whole peak. I don't I never heard that before it's just like the NBC streaming service is just like you know

Paramount plus or cinema HBO max it's just the same thing for that's peacock is there's uh just another subscription that you have to get yeah but i was saving money when we when we ditch cable and then you end up with like 20 different subscriptions and now you're actually spinning more I know I'm spending more I don't have cable anymore and I know I'm spending more between Netflix and fucking everything else uh but I will say this I'll give them credit man their setup for the Olympics is awesome. Like they have a section for each sport. So like when wrestling was on this morning, when they were in like the quarterfinals,

you click on wrestling, they opened three boxes. All three mats are up there. And you can pick the mat if you want to just watch one. Or you can just watch all three at one time. And then like for the for the semifinals this afternoon, they just had the one big match. But the streaming is flawless. Like I've had like, dude, ESPN shuts down on me at least three times during every UFC event without fucking fail.

Peacock was flawless today. Like it was crystal clear image, never, never a skipping to be. And the triple box was awesome. Like I had all three, I had two Greco matches and a women's freestyle match all going at once in the quarterfinals. They were all going, perfect streaming. And then you can, you just scroll around. Like, if you want audio from one particular one, you can still keep all three, but you can just move your cursor around to which one you want audio from.

And if you want to pick one match, you can pick one match and just watch that one. But you can watch all three at one time and then just kind of pick and choose what you want to. watch it's awesome i've loved it so credit to peacock for putting on a great stream man it's been awesome yeah so it's a good week Olympic wrestling finally i wish the russians were in there you know like i'd love to see what sedge liive would do this year but you know it's unfortunate that they're not able to compete a couple of them and david taylor brought this up to me and i appreciate because he's right he said like Tadinoff is Dagestani.

He trained at Sadgillai's gym. That's where he learned to wrestle. It's at Sadgalyov's gym, but he knew he could never get there because he was underneath Saddialov. So now he represents, dude, the guy who's wrestling, your guy, Lopez,

and the finals tomorrow is a Cuban. He left Cuba and now he represents Chile because he knew he could never get to the Olympics underneath Lopez. So he left the country. Now it's literally the final tomorrow is two Cubans, just one. One guy is not representing Chile, but they're both Cubans.

It's awesome, right? So, yeah. So, like, while, yes, I agree. Sajalaya is a great example. Or, you know, Zarabakh Sottox-Sidikov in Kyle Dake's division. I'll give – David Taylor brought him a good point. There's so many Russians that leave and go represent other countries now that, like,

he brought up a thing. He's like, at 74 kilograms a couple years ago. I can't remember if he said it was the World Championships or the Olympics, the Kyle Dakes Division. He's like 10 of the 16 wrestlers were Russians. they just all represented different different countries and I was like that's fucking hilarious

so yeah I'm with you I just want to see said July of you know I mean that dude I love watching that guy wrestle man he blows my mind dude that guy like he's he's so like dominant it's scary like he's just like

he was a pricking but they call him the Russian tank for a reason like he's like a fucking tank exactly I mean I still think that Snyder has a chance against him I would be certainly picks Edge Live to win. I'm not delusional or anything, but, like, I still think Snyder

has a chance and, you know, so I just, I'd love to see it again, you know, I want to see Snyder, get him back. I'm sure you've heard the rumor, though, that Zerbach-Sidikoff is possibly coming to M.MA. Yeah, that's, I mean, it's pretty scary. Like, yeah, I mean, that, that is a bad motherfucker. He's trained with, he was trained with Islam. He's trained with Islam a little bit, so. You know, it's also one of those things, like, you know, you know, that's, you know, like you would have said the same thing about Yul Romero like when he came to him may we're like we're like dude no one's got a chance like it's over is Yol Romero and you know people do have chances you know like we're all humans and you know people like Yor Romero think that you know

we're human and he's not but they really are you know and that's another one of the beautiful things about the UFC it just it shows like we're all fucking humans man you know and because like I remember when Yol first came I seen him if I think it was in Cincinnati at a strike force he fought uh oh and he fought he fought he fought hafield cavalcante yeah yeah he got knocked out yeah yeah and because because i remember you know i knew who y'all was at the time and and i was like dude this fucking brazilian doesn't have a chance bro like like why is he even taking this fight like what is like what kind of idiot does that and yeah he got knocked out so yeah oh you never i mean you never know like i said you never know and also you know like i said you can be the best wrestler of world

if you don't develop your other skills, you're never going to be, you can't, you know, so yeah, but I just like, for, like the people who aren't super into wrestling, like,

like, like to put it in terms of like, right now, the big hyped wrestler in MMA is Bo Nicol and rightfully so, four-time NCAA champion, monster, incredible prospect.

Bo Nickel is a four-time NCAA champion who never made an Olympic team. Zarbach Siddikov is an Olympic gold medalist who beat fucking Kyle Dake and like he's just like, he's the fucking monster hiding in your closet. Like I'm not saying that what Bo Nickel didn't do was impressive. He absolutely

was. I'm just saying like you know, in terms of wrestling. There's a couple things there too. Like when like freestyle wrestling and collegiate style wrestling, like collegiate style is way more I don't know, better for like MMA in my opinion.

Folk style is built for MMA. Yeah. I think it's just way more intuitive for MMA, right? But also to be that level, like I Siddikov level or Sedgeolive or me and anything to be that level of wrestler like you have to have special things that are very specific to that sport yeah like like for example like like Michael Phelps when he was um I don't know if you ever seen like that breakdown of the way his body is built for

swimming like it's the same thing for wrestling and you know for track and field for all these sports like to be a gold medalist at that like you get you have to have genetic like abnormalities for that sport. It's just the way that, you know, because you're going against tons of other guys that work as hard as you, take the same things you do, you know, get the same level of instruction as you do, put in the same amount of time as you do. A lot of times that's what separates gold from silver, is that genetic abnormality. And that may not carry over into MMA. You know, you're a, mayor is a perfect example of it. You know, I mean, he would have been a gold medalist if it wasn't for Saitiv, who was the most abnormal, insane wrestler in the history of wrestling.

And, you know, it was like, if it weren't for Saitiv, I mean, you know, Romero, you know, could have been, and maybe a Kail Sanderson, you know, he could have done whatever he wanted. But, yeah, so I think that's something people kind of forget about, right? Like, just because you were so amazing at one sport doesn't necessarily mean it's going to carry over. Yeah, but in terms of, like, prospect, like, that guy's going to have a leg up just coming in. because his athleticism, his skill ability, like, you know, that's adaptable. Now, well, I remember when Ryan Bader fought Phil Davis and Phil Davis was a much more accomplished college wrestle than Ryan Bader was. But I always said Ryan Bader was a better MMA wrestler.

And when they fought twice, he beat him twice because I always thought wrestling, just purely MMA wrestling. Ryan just had a style that was better built for wrestling. You know what I mean? For MMA, I mean. And that's what it was. So, yeah, like, you're absolutely right. I just say, like, in terms of like prospect, though, just like the potential? potential i don't know if it's going to develop but in potential dude fucking siddikov's the scary

motherfuckers all i'm saying yeah 100% i don't know how old uh sitikov is but i think he's like 27 27 27 if i'm not a mistake yeah so he's had you know 27 years of building himself specifically for wrestling it's like is he going to be able to you know adapt to mma wrestling at this point you know that's a long time you know to be doing a single thing and you're used to work in things a certain way but now you got to adapt it and you know and there's no question that like he'll be a contender but like just your wrestling alone is going to get you to contender status you know what I mean like like just simply being that good at wrestling and having that athleticism required that's going to get you to

you know top 10 no question but you know when you start getting into those you know top three or four guys it's like you know you got to have a lot of special things I mean Daniel Kormier is one of the greatest mixed martial artists of all time and he was always behind Kail Sanderson in college and he never even won a medal in the Olympics. Obviously the second when he got bumped out because the whole weight thing, but he never even got a medal

and he came to M.MA and he wrecked fucking house. And yes, I know. He never beat John Jones. I'm not talking about that. Except for John Jones. But I'm saying like he was, he never went, you know, but like you could say on wrestling accomplishments, Kormier wasn't anywhere near Y'all Romero in terms of

accomplishments in wrestling, yet he had a much better career than Yowel did in fighting. So again, yeah. Or even look at John Jones himself, right? He never even made an Olympic team. I don't even know if he ever tried. I don't think he went to him made. But I don't think he would have made an Olympic team.

Maybe if he would have put everything he had into it. But I mean, he didn't even win a national championship, right? And then he, I think he dropped out after like his sophomore year. Didn't he try. Like he got interested in fighting and just basically quit college at that point. So anyway, he was. I mean, you wrestle to Iowa Community College, which is a legit, like, you know, that's like a legit, you know, a team that produces like Kane Velasquez and Colby Covington.

Like, they produce like real, like real All-Americans. But, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And like I said, George St. Pierre, another guy. He never wrestled a fucking day in his life until he got to M.A. And then he became like, he shut down Josh Kosteck, who was an NCAA champion. So he just never know. Like, you never know. But I'm just saying, like, in terms of prospect-wise, dude, Citticoff would be a great prospect.

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's no question about that. So I'm just, you know, I think there's things to point out about that, you know. Oh, you're right. You're absolutely. Yeah, like I said, you're right. When you're all American, I would have been money. I was like, that dude's going to wreck house.

He did do well. Don't get me wrong. You all did do well. He had definitely had some huge wins, but never won a major title like that, never, you know, never quite got to that level. And then Daniel Cormey, who was, you know, again, kind of like he got stuck behind, you know, maybe one of the greatest American wrestlers of all time in Kel Sanderson and just never quite did in the Olympics,

but then he came in the MMA and he's one of the greatest ever UFC Hall of Famer. So you just never know. Yeah, yeah, you never know, man. That's what makes him and makes it up fun. That's why it's the greatest sport in the fucking world. Absolutely, absolutely.

All right, folks, we're going to get out of here, as always want to say a big thank you to everyone in soon as in Matt. If you want to check out what you got going on, where can they show you support? I'm the Immortal on social media, Instagram and Twitter, the Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook. I also never really plug my newsletter.

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For Matt Brown, I'm Damon. and Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition to the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Fox Media Podcast Network.