MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Does Francis Ngannou Have A Shot Against Tyson Fury? + Matt Brown On How Gaethje Can Beat Poirier at UFC 291

Episode Date: July 18, 2023

The Fighter vs. The Writer returns with UFC knockout king Matt Brown and Damon Martin discussing the latest in combat sports including the boxing match between Francis Ngannou and Tyson Fury. After leaving the UFC in free agency, Ngannou secured exactly what he wanted with fight against Fury but does the former heavyweight champion actually stand a realistic shot at winning? Is Ngannou’s only hope that he can land a big bomb to finish Fury? Plus we look ahead at UFC 291 and breakdown the main and co-main event as Dustin Poirier battles Justin Gaethje and Jan Blachowicz takes on Alex Pereira. Brown will not only give his thoughts on the fight but he will detail what Gaethje has to do to beat Poirier this time around after falling to him in their first encounter. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. and your Chase card can get you exactly that. With a Chase card, you can experience more. That means access to presales, preferred seating, and more savings.

For more information about how to step into a world of more with Chase experiences, visit chase.com slash experiences. Benefits available only to eligible Chase card holders, deposit and credit card products provided by JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A, member FDIC. Terms, conditions, restrictions, and limitations apply. media podcast network. Back to the fighter versus the writer.

I'm your host, Damon Martin. I am joined by UFC legend and knockout king himself, Matt Brown. Matt's what's going on? And life is going on, bro. Getting back in the gym, training hard. Well, I'm pretty much staying in the gym, but picking it up a little bit. Schools be in session. So we're going to start picking up the intensity and start working towards getting into camp, man.

Nice, nice. Yeah. So hold you, school starts soon? Yeah, like less than a month. Crap. Dude, like when we went to school, dude, like school didn't start. Do I, am I remembering incorrectly? Do I remember school not starting to like September when we were in school?

Am I remembering that incorrectly? Why don't I feel like we didn't go back to school quite as early? Yeah, I feel like it was like mid-August for us, but. Yeah. Or no, yeah, yeah, it was like late August. Yeah, it's like late August, early September, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, so they're going back August, August 7th.

So it seems like a, like it's a big difference, but not really. Yeah, I guess not. Like, I remember my brother's birthday is August 27th. And I remember we used to always go to school right around his birthday, go back to school. So, you know, that's only a week or two earlier. Yeah, I guess so. I don't know.

I just had, like, I was remember summer break, like when it was coming to the end, the depression of like, oh, man, we've got to go back to school in two weeks or three weeks. Like, it was the worst. There was, there were a few feelings worse in the world than that feeling of knowing you had to go back to school again. Yeah, that's so true, man. But, you know, I think it's actually because of the snow days,

they kind of get ready for the snow days now. Like our teachers, when we were kids or whoever was running the school, we're just like, oh, whatever the fuck, you know? They're like actually playing ahead and think about things a little bit. And like, well, we're probably going to have school, are probably going to have snow days being that we've had snow days for the past like 100 years

so if you can plan for that. Yeah. Do you ever, was there ever a better feeling in the morning waking up, looking outside and seeing that snow and turned on that radio and being like, you're waiting for the cancellations. Was that you too?

That was me as a kid. You'd lay in bed and you'd wait. You'd wait to see if they'd be like, you know, such and such school canceled. You'd be like, yes. Yeah, like the kids got Google and stuff now so they find out in 10 seconds. but yeah we'd have to watch all the schools scroll across the screen and just pray that ours is one of them

and then you know half the time is not even yours and you're just like ah every school around is closed why not mine we always remember they used to do delays you remember that they do like they're on a one hour delay they're on a two hour delay and like they keep escalating it and you be like come on cancel school cancel school they're like you're on a two hour delay you're come on just cancel it and then like they'd cancel it and be like celebration like yeah you just got out of prison or something Yeah, but it's so weird how they choose when to cancel it too, because sometimes I swear it's like, it's not even a problem out there, you know?

And then other times it's like a fucking blizzard, and they're like, oh, you're going to school still. Well, you got to live in, you got to live where we were from. You lived in a smaller town. I grew up in a smaller town. That's the only way you're really getting days off. You live in a city, they're going to make you go to school. Like, they're going to probably make you go to school.

You live in like the, you live out in the boonies, like where you're, you and I grew up, they're like, yeah, there's like an inch of snow on the ground. We ain't, we ain't going anywhere. You're, you're going to cancel it. Because that was a great thing about where I lived. Like, I grew up, my graduate in class is 85. Like, there's nobody, like, I had the smallest school ever. So they're like, it's just snow on the ground.

Yeah, it's too dangerous. We'll go ahead and cancel school for the day. Bro, where I, in my elementary school, where I grew up, so they, almost everybody walked to school. And it was in a farm town. There was, like, you know, maybe like 20 kids at most that. that rode the bus. So, like, they didn't cancel it for shit. I remember walking, you know, the old story, like, I walk through, you know,

10 inches of snow for 10 miles. Like, that was actually me, brother. Like, I walked through blizzards and, like, thunderstorms. And, like, I don't know what, I never asked my mom about that. Like, what the fuck didn't you give me a ride? Mom. What's the what going on here? Now, do you give, do you give your kid?

Because I remember when I was a kid, every parent gets that kid their speech. Like, like, like, I used to walk 10 miles. through snow to make it to school. You kids are so pampered now. Like, do you give them the speech when they're like, oh, dad, I don't want to go. Like, hold on now. I walk through 10 feet of snow and a mile and a half with barbed wire on my feet and I made it to school. Well, you know, I'd never thought about it before.

But now they're talking about it, they're getting the fucking speech tomorrow. Right before this school season starts. I don't want to fucking hear about it. You have no idea what I went through. Yeah, they're about to get it, bro. I'm glad we had this conversation. It works out well. It works out well.

So a little broadcasting note here. So we will have to show this week, of course, but we'll be off next week. I am actually taking a rare vacation, so I'll be gone for a week. So we wanted to get on and do a podcast this week to do a little preview ahead of time for 291, UFC 291, taking place in two weeks time, incredible card. Couldn't miss out talking about that, but I won't be back until literally the day of that event. So I figured we'd knock out a podcast today. Before we get to 291, timing-wise, it was just really weird timing.

We did the show last week the very next day. Big announcement was made, of course. Francis Ngano was actually boxing Tyson Fury, October 28th. It is a real heavyweight boxing fight. There's no exhibition crap, no, you know, no weird rules, nothing like that. Now, no titles on the line. WBC, I spoke to the WBC. They said no titles on the line.

I think they have a rule, too, where, like, you have to have so many fights or something to fight for a WBC title. But regardless, no title on the line, but it is for, it is a real heavyweight fight. Matt, you and I talked about this at length a few weeks back. You know, what should Inganu do? Who should he fight? You kind of convinced me that Anthony Joshua was maybe the best possibility of a win because Anthony Joshua doesn't like really getting hit.

Hasn't look great lately and maybe that would be a fight. I always said Deonté Wilder just because the two biggest guys with the biggest punches. And I think we both kind of agreed at the time. The biggest fight, yet probably the worst. first fight stylistically would be Tyson Fury and this is the one he got. Yeah, what a crazy thing, right? Like, so it's going to be 12 rounds too, right? I believe so, yeah.

Yeah, that's a lot of rounds to go with Tyson Fury. I don't care who you are. I don't care how hard you hit. But, yeah, I mean, that's a lot of rounds to go with Ingano too. But the cardio is different. The pace is different. Like the gloves obviously are different. Like I assume they're doing full boxing, regular boxing.

you know, same gloves, everything, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, he's going to have to, that's what I just, I don't know, I don't know, you know, this whole consensus that these guys have chances in there, you know. And, you know, I mean, it's not like he doesn't have any chance at all, right? We know he definitely hits hard, you know, wilder dropped Fury. So, you know, it's not like he doesn't have any chance at all.

But come on. It's like, dude, you are literally doing a different sport. That's what I wish people would realize. Like it is not fighting. It is boxing. You know, I mean, it is a fighting sport. But it's a like, like you are, there's literally, like, all of your weapons are taken away, except for the two that this man has been practicing his whole life with.

You know, like you practice with all these other weapons. And that's all the time that he was only working on those two weapons. So, and you're talking about Tyson Fury, one of the greatest heavyweights. And, you know, I've had some people, you know, some of my friends that are, you know, huge boxing guys that they put Tyson up there with one of the some, one of the greatest heavy weights. Not necessarily because of his resume, but, you know, they just believe that he's that good. And, you know, he's just in a tough time in history where trying to, you know, make a case to be one of the greatest in history is just going to be difficult, I think. Yeah, I agree. I think he is.

And yeah, he's just, he is. he's in that weird time where he doesn't have, like he didn't, he's not fighting in the era when there was, you know, Evander Holyfield and Tyson and, you know, Lennox Lewis and the Klitschkos. And like, that was like that weird little, that weird little era where they had like

a lot of really good heavy wage. You know what I mean? Right now we're not really in that era. Yeah, there's a few. Yeah, I don't know, man. Like, it's a weird one. Like, obviously I think Inganu's got a shot because he does have that, you know,

as Joe Rogan calls. is the nuclear option. He does have the power. But the reality is you have to hit him with that power. And like, Deonté Wilder, yes. Deonté Wilder did it in the first fight. He dropped him, looked like maybe he was done.

Tyson Fury somehow survived. He came back. Got a draw. And what did Tyson Fury do the next two fights? He picked Deonti Wilder apart and absolutely demolished him both times. It was not even a fight. Like, Deonti was never in either one of those fights. Now, my only question, the reality,

Because we know, like Tyson has spoken very openly about, you know, mental health and things he's gone through. So I don't want to turn it into that kind of conversation. But what I'm asking is, is like, we know Tyson got like way out of shape. You know, he, you know, he gained weight and like kind of just let himself go. Then he got back and he, you know, looked incredible. My only question is, is like, is he, like, I have to imagine he's going to be motivated to fight Francis, even though he's going to be an overwhelming favorite to win. That's the only thing that scares me about this.

about like is he going to be truly motivated but if he is and i think he will be because he doesn't want to get embarrassed by getting knocked out or beaten by a ufc fighter who's never boxed before in his life uh if there's a motivated tyson fury in there i mean sure yes and gano has the chance of pulling off like that one crazy punch but i mean come on like are we going to be like what are those chances like percentage wise like does he have like a 0.3 percent like i mean i'm just me because this is this was the worst matchup of all the heavyweights we both agreed on that well that's what i keep saying with you know when we talk about what's it you know what is his chance right maybe it's a 50% maybe it's a zero percent i don't know but that's it we don't know but that's it

we don't know we've never seen him box so we don't know and that's what makes it i guess kind of exciting to watch but at the same time you know i feel like it's going to be like a Gregor Mayweather or, you know, this Musk Zuckerberg thing or whatever where, you know, it's exciting to think about and the promos are going to be great. The pump up's going to be great. Everybody's going to have a big party. You know, the bars are going to be packed out. Everybody's going to get the pay-per-view.

And then around 1230 at night when it's in, I don't know, the sixth, seventh round, we're going to be like, we're going to be way more interested in the bourbon and the tours light. then you know i guess not the bud light right but everybody's gonna be more interested in you know partying and hanging out with their friends they are in this bike is they're like dude this is you know it's fucking retarded bro like what are we doing here yeah well it's like listen like i i i i don't fault francis for doing it i mean he's saying that he's gonna he's gonna make more money from this fight than he made in his entire ufc career okay got no problem of that uh he's always dreamed of doing boxing don't have any problem of

And listen, if you can get a Tyson Fury fight in your first professional boxing fight, skip the line and get that payday, once again, nothing, nothing, no problem with that whatsoever. But the downside is the competition, right? Like, when Floyd fought Connor, people were talking themselves into Connor having a chance. Like, people were just talking themselves into, well, Connor's got massive power in his left hand. He's a really good boxing for MMA. and Holly Holm, who lost this past weekend, but she said something to me when we talked and did our interview before her fight.

We were talking about boxers coming to MMA and MMA coming to boxers. So she said, yes, hypothetically, it is easier for an MMA fighter to go to boxing because there is an element of boxing in MMA. It's much harder to go the other way around because a boxer doesn't have grappling, doesn't have wrestling, doesn't have jiu-jitsu, there's just so much more to learn. And that's true. He does have an element of that. But there's a difference between knowing how to box and knowing how to beat Tyson Fury.

Like that's a huge gap. Like maybe Tyson, maybe Francis could go out there and knock out the number 20 ranked heavyweight or whatever. Maybe he would have a better chance against that. But there's a wide gap between that number 20 guy, like a guy who has 30 pro fights and all the experience and all, you know, all that. Was it Otto Waylon? Was that the guy's name who fought Tyson a few years ago? Had the big cut over his head. Otto Weilin, Wylan.

You know, he's got like 20, 30 fights. And he got absolutely picked apart and decimated by, by. by Tyson Fury. So like first fight guy, the gap? Like, I don't know. I guess my question is,

are we going to try to talk ourselves into seriously believing Tyson or that In God is going to win this? Well, right. And that's kind of what I'm saying is that we don't have any, we don't have anything to base that off of

because you've never seen the box. And maybe he goes in there and proves this all wrong. But the likelihood of that is so slim. And exactly what you're talking about with the, you know, there is an element. element of boxing, but we have to train so many other things. The boxers only train boxing. And when you're talking about, you know, boxing specifically, you're also talking about

different rounds. You know, you get more rest periods. They have more time to sit with their corner, you know, in between rounds and think about things and strategize and change the game plan. You know, it's in a ring versus a cage. You know, it's a square versus an octagon. And it's, yeah, there's just so many differences that, you know, and I think we kind of talked about it before when we were doing the podcast talking about this fight, hypothetically, many months back. And, you know, when you see a guy coming in from, you know, boxing, like, you know, this auto guy that you're talking about, right? You bet you can almost, like, that's why betting boxing is cool because you can almost guess what's going to happen, right? And there's always surprises. It's combat sports.

There's always surprises. but you know you kind of know like that's why boxers pick their guys like they there there's tons of tape like guys do generally they do you know hundreds of you know amateur matches they know everybody knows who they are by time they go pro they go pro and they pick you know certain fights where they're going to either you know be exposed or be challenged in certain ways and you know other managers and you know connoisseurs of the sport they see that and they see exactly who this guy is and what he's going to bring to the match. We don't have any of that within Ghana.

We have no idea. And, you know, because he's knocked out some guys in MMA, see, I would also argue that, you know, you have to be a supreme athlete to be a high level in any combat sport. But I think that athleticism in MMA can make up for a lot more faults than a cannon boxing, right? Like Wilder is every bit as good as an athlete,

maybe a better athlete, you know, again, depending on how. you define athleticism, you know, versus Tyson Fury, right? He's probably better, like, he's probably got a better 40 time. He could probably bench press more. He could probably, you know, run better, jump longer. You know what I mean? Like all these athletic skills.

And that goes, in my opinion, a lot longer way in MMA than it does in boxing. Because, again, because of the rounds, because of, you know, you were dealing with only two weapons. You know, so like it's and it's such a high skilled sport that you know, you can't just make up for it with athleticism

over 12 rounds. You know, maybe a round or two, you get away with it. And I think like that's why Connor did pretty decent with Mayweather starting off, right? Like he did okay, right? Because he is an athlete. Like he's an athletic dude. He knows how to box. But over,

you just seen, you know, over the course of the fight, like the skill level was just you know universes apart and because you know fucking floyd had he's been he's done that you know however many a hundred times right like you know competitively and how many thousands of times you know inspiring and so that's why i think it's such a big unknown but i think that's kind of part of the appeal of it you know because like you said already that Francis has that nuclear option or whatever you call it. He does have that. So, but to think that that's going to, you know,

if we're going to buy a pay-per-view based off of like, okay, this dude either lands just one big punch on one of the greatest heavyweights ever or he's going to get demolished, like that doesn't interest me to watch it. You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of guys that could do that. Yeah. I think that's the oddity of this fight because, you know,

I talked to Ingano's head coach, Eric Nixick, from, you know, from Extreme Couture. And listen, he's not, he's not mistaken in how tough this is. Like, he's not, you know, sitting there saying we're the favorite or like, you know, we should win. Like, he understands they're fighting an uphill battle here. But he also understands that, you know, there have been these massive upsets. We all remember, of course, Columbus's own, Buster Douglas, you know, going out there and knocking out, you know, Mike Tyson. Things like that can happen, especially at heavyweight because heavyweight is a weird one, right? Because much like heavyweight MMMA, there's a really.

reason why, you know, Steep A with three title defenses is the most of all time. When we talk about all the great, incredible heavyweights in UFC history, the Randy Coutors and the Mark Coleman's and all these guys who never got there because it's just so freaking hard to avoid just getting hit with that one clean shot to put you out. And that's their in boxing as well. But the difference is that, you know, like I said, I mean, Fury is so good. Like he's so, like he's just an incredible boxer. Like, he's not Deontay Wilder. He doesn't need one shot to put you out. he will pick you apart like a surgeon for five rounds and then he'll put you out.

Defensively, he's good. Long jab, good power, volume never slows down. Great car. I mean, like I said, I'm not saying I would have picked Ingandu to beat Wilder or Joshua. I would have said he's going to be an underdog against all those guys. Like, he should be. Realistically, he should be an underdog against any good heavyweight boxer. Tyson Fury is the one where I'm like, biggest fight, largest, like,

fancy you're going to get beat up pretty, you know, like that, like, that's the like, like Connor, I know this is different. Like, Connor could have fought other, like, lower rank guys and maybe had a decently competitive fight. But he stepped in there with Floyd freaking Mayweather. One of the greatest defensive boxers, like, one of the greatest boxers of that era. And the same thing with Tyson. Like, Tyson Fury is, is a monster.

This is the worst matchup Francis could have taken. Now, again, I don't fault him for taking it because if they gave me $50 million or whatever he's getting paid, I'd step in there. with Tyson fear tomorrow. I'd get knocked out and I'd go home with my $50 million to be happy about it. But yeah, I mean, it's a, I mean, and I know you said, like, it's, you know, we don't know what to expect. There's that mystery element that kind of sells the fight a little bit, but boxing in

MMA is totally different than boxing. Like, boxing in MMA, which you, like, the way you throw a jab, the way you throw a body shot, the way you throw an uppercut, the way you throw an overhand, yes, it's boxing and it's, and it works in MMA, but the way it works in MMA is not the way it works in traditional boxing. Go watch any high-level boxing fight and tell him, go watch, go watch Lomachinko and Devin Haney

and tell me that that's not a completely different style of boxing than what you're going to see when an MMA guy steps in there. Yeah, I mean, listen, I agree. It's like the freak show element of it. We're all going to, I'm going to, I mean, beyond me covering it as a journalist, like, I'm going to watch it. I'm curious. But I also know in the back of my head,

I pretty much know what I think's going to happen. Right. And that's what I feel like we've talked so much this year more than ever in the history of our lives about all these fights, you know, between like Jake Paul and, you know, Floyd Mayweather-Connor and, you know, now this one and Elon Musk. And dude, it's like, it's like the only appeal to all these fights is we don't know what's going to happen. You know, like, but why is this like constantly an appeal for people? you know what I mean like especially when when you could watch just about any UFC card and you're going to get a high level you high level fighting and even like the lower level guys in the UFC I mean you'll get some fucking throw down wars and brawes even on the prelims of a you know Saturday night card that you didn't even know what's happening until you turn on ESPN at six o'clock and you're like oh okay cool it's fights on and you'll get some fucking crazy war but it's just this draw

to these names and it's like you said if someone paid me $50 million I'd go in there and take it you know it's like it's like anybody would so you know props to Francis like he's the guy who you know we all say yeah I would do that it's like well he's a guy that gets to do that but yeah he's got a chance

I guess that's not all you say right I guess he's got a chance I mean but again you know, the, he's such an athlete and he's a gigantic person, you know, as such a strong guy, such as a hard hitter. It's just a matter of like that. It's 12 rounds, bro. Like, you know, they work years.

And that's why these guys do amateur fights and low level pro fights. That's why the boxers don't fight nobody for, you know, 10, 15, 20 fights. And, you know, they're fighting, you know, kind of mediocre boxers, right? they're learning about themselves. They're learning how to compete in a boxing match, how to set things up for later rounds, or how to work the body better, or whatever it might be for each different person.

But if you go in and anybody out there listening to the trains, if you go in and you do a boxing match for 8, 10, 12 rounds, you're going to feel a huge, ginormous difference from doing three, five-minute MMA rounds, you know, just in terms of the setups, the traps, you know, taking your time, knowing how to pace yourself, knowing how to rest and explode, and, you know, knowing the rounds themselves,

knowing like, okay, you know, I'm up one round or down two rounds, I won that one lost, you know what I mean? Like it's just such a vastly different game that I think, you know, until you've had experience doing it, that's why these boxes start with four-round matches. and then six and then eight, 10, and then finally 12 for the championship fights. That's why they do it,

because it is a skill to develop, just that, that, and I think that's part of what they call, like, ring generalship, right? When you talk about not just controlling the ring itself, but controlling the pace of the match all that time. And that's where, you know, Lomacheco has 400 amateur matches

and, you know, probably about 20, pro matches now and his biggest mistake has been controlling early on, right? Like he's lost his matches because he's losing the early rounds. Like that's a perfect case of someone who's not playing that game to the highest level. You know, like Floyd was the best at it, right? Or one of the best that right? He would lose those early rounds, but he knew that he was getting him back, right? So anyway, I won't get too deep into it.

But that's just another, a complete another aspect. of the game that someone like Francis has never experienced and now he's got to go experience against the best in the world. Yeah. So realistically, as you said, there's that element of like mystery, right? Like that's what we're all going to tune in for. How could it have

we don't know what kind of boxery is. But again, we don't know any of this question but the same kind of like theory of like when Jake Paul, if he comes into MMA and fights someone in MMA and like doesn't fight just some low level duty he fights, I don't he fights a 185 he fights Hamzaa Chama

or he fights or he fights, you know, Israel out of Sanya, or he fights Robert Whitaker or Dracus Duplice, whatever. We can sit here and say, well, you know, maybe this or maybe that, but we pretty much know how it's going to go out. Do you realistically give Francis much of a chance against Tyson Fury honestly?

Not really. Again, it's just all those reasons that I said. It's not that he can't land a punch and hurt Tyson. But, you know, the other part of that, too, is, of course, he's a very powerful boxer. are a very powerful puncher, but, you know, that one punch has to finish him too, right?

Like, because if you want to talk about, like, you know, they end up boxing again for 12 rounds and they're actually boxing, you know, then you don't give a chance against Francis. So we're, you know, the one chance that we do grant him is that he's going to land that big punch. That big punch has to be the one now, right? That has, like, he's got to have,

like almost a superhuman amount of power, right? Deonté Wilder wasn't able to do it. I mean, he's got to have a superhuman amount of power to finish Tyson Fury with that one punch. So first he's got to find a way to land it, and then he's got to land it. It's way too much to overcome. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. And listen, I would argue that even, like, for as powerful as Francis is, I would argue that in boxing, Deonti Wilder is probably still a more powerful puncher because he's been doing in his whole life. He knows how to throw a punch and boxing and knock people out wearing the gloves. All those little things that you just don't do in MMA.

It's going to be a whole different world for Francis. So I'm glad, man. I'm glad he got to fight. I'm glad he's getting paid. Man, it wouldn't happen to a nicer guy. Francis is one of the nicest dudes in this business. I hope he has a blast doing this. I just don't give him a great chance of winning.

Listen, I don't think anyone's going to feel insulted saying that. You're almost insulting Tyson Fury if you're saying, oh, yeah, I give him a great chance to win. No, I mean, that's just not. realistic, but hey, will I be watching? Will we all be watching? Sure. And do I root for Francis to go out there and make a big payday? Absolutely. I hope he gets paid a huge amount of money and enjoys himself because I know he's always wanted to do this. So yeah, I'm happy for him, but I don't give him a great chance to win. Now you talk about... Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the Downloaded Two, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left.

Roscoe Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix Colony have to re-uble. blow their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love. The downloaded two ghosts in the machine.

Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams

and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf. High level versus Francis versus Tyson's one thing. Then we roll into 299 here in a couple weeks. We've got two incredibly high level fights. Dustin Porre, Justin Gaich, too, and of course, Jan Blahovich against Alex Pereira. It's funny. You remember that you probably remember this.

When you were going to fight Carlos Condit the first time, it was going to be on the same card as Gachie and Porriere originally. When they were when they talked about doing it, I had made a, I'm not really good at Photoshop, but I made a Photoshop and called the UFC Red Wedding from Game of Thrones because I was like, these two fights, like this is like the ultimate card.

It didn't end up playing out that way. But the first Porier-Gaichi fight was an all-time classic. Of course, that's the Pori, got the job done. Now they're coming back. We got to imagine the win. is probably going to get a title shot, especially now that we know Charles Olivares said he's not going to be ready to fight in October.

We know Islam Makachiev is going to fight in October. Man, this is one of those ones where it's like, I don't feel like we need to talk about it, but I feel like we have to talk about it because this is just such an incredible fight. What do you say about that fight, man? I mean, we've seen how it went down the first time, and I can't expect anything less this time, right?

Like, these guys are just going to come even harder. Gage is going to be even hungier. Poirier is always hungry and come into banks. Jesus Christ, but what's just an incredible card all around, man? I mean, this is, I looked at it the other day. This might be, I don't know if I might be reaching here, but this might be the best card I've ever seen. I mean, look at the whole thing, read it out maybe,

and, you know, tell me if I'm wrong here. No, it's a really, really good card from top to bottom. Hold on one second. Let me read it out to you here. All right, so at the top of the card, of course, we got Dustopore and Justin Gachie fighting for the BMF, title, which, you know, who kind of cares about the BMF part of it, but the fight itself. Jan Blahovic against Alex Pereira, Paulo Costa against Icrum, Alice Scaroff, Tony Ferguson against

Bobby Green, Michael Kiesa and Kevin Holland on the prelims. You got Stephen Wonderboy Thompson against Michelle Pereira, Derek Lewis fighting Marcus, Rogerio de Lima. So yeah, a lot of cards, a lot of fights on the undercar. But yeah, that five-fight main card kicks off with Kiesa and Holland and then goes into Tony Ferguson, Bobby Green, then Paulo Koss and Icrum Alice Geroff, and then of course, the main two fights with Blahovic-Perrera and then caping things off with Gaci and Porier. That's what I'm saying, bro, like that main card, is that the best main card that's ever been?

I mean, it's pretty good. I don't know if I'd say best. I have to look at cards, to be honest. Like, we just did a, we did a breakdown of international fight week's cards, and we basically said the number one card was UFC 189, which was a card you fought on when you beat Tim Means and then rolled right into that main card. We had, you know, Robbie and Rory and Connor and Chad Mendez, and that whole car was insane. Like, basically, the card up to your fight kind of sucked, and then you went out and beat Tim Means, and then every fight of the main card was a finish. So it's like, it's also like revisionist history, right?

Like, if the fight, if that fight card had played out and it was all decisions or boring fights, we'd look back and say, that it wasn't great, but because the way it played out. So I would say there's a potential for this card because all those fights have potential to be pretty great. You know what I mean? I think that's the fun part about this. So I would agree on that mark. At the top, let me ask you, let me ask you a little different question when it comes to Gachie Porre, because we saw the first fight, it was a human car crash, and we got to imagine the second fight's going to have some elements of that, right?

Gachie ultimately lost. Porre knocked him out in the fourth round, I believe, was when it ended, right? You know, I don't, when you were in Colorado, did you ever train with Gachie? Were you ever on Gachie much at all? Okay. I was about him a couple of times. I didn't train with him. Okay. But obviously you know both these guys really well.

Here's my question, Matt, because I want to hear from you because you're a fighter you know and you're a coach. What does Justin Gachey have to do differently this time to beat Dustin Poyer? Because it was just a car crash, you know, it goes either way. But you don't want it to be a car crash. Like you want to beat the other guy handling. You don't want it to be a three-round, five-round war. You want to beat him. So in your opinion, no engaging, no imporee.

what does Justin Gachie have to do differently this time? Yeah, I think that's a great question because, you know, like the first fight, I mean, I think Gagie was doing really well. And I think he, you know, he looked well. He wasn't like, you know, drained from the weight cut or, you know, out of shape, didn't look injured or anything like that. So you got to think that was the best he could do that night. So you got to look at, okay, what can we change now to make it a little bit better? And I think the one thing, well, two things about Gagy is that he has some, a lot of things that he doesn't like to use, right? His wrestling and is an obvious one, which we talk about a lot.

So I think that's an easy one. If you can add in, you know, a little bit more wrestling and, you know, just throw Dustin off a little bit and maybe discourage some of that hardcore forward pressure that Dustin likes to get going. And especially, you know, if Dustin does start to get going, I mean, we know how. brutal Dustin could be once he gets going, right? Like once he gets going, he's a tough guy to stop. So I think that's an easy one. But also, I think Gagie can utilize just simple things like his jab and his footwork more, you know, just move around a little more, like not make it as much of a war. And I actually think that Gagie can make it lean, potentially can make it even lean into his favor if he uses, you know, a skill versus skill versus, you know, war.

versus war fighter, right? And I think that Gage has that in him to do that. I mean, he has a brilliant cornerman, game playing strategist with Trevor Whitman. And I think that Gagie has the ability to do that. We see him do that with, I think it was Tony Ferguson, right? We've seen him use his jab really well. We've seen him, you know, kind of take his time.

And, you know, he landed a lot of bombs, but, you know, he never overextended himself trying to go for a knockout or anything. So I think both of those things together, just be patient, take your time. And, you know, when the, you know that there's going to be a time where he's got to bite down his mouthpiece and go to war, you know, whether that's Dustin or Justin, and, you know, they're both ready for that. But if you can keep Justin specifically away from that mentality

and use it when it's needed versus for turning it into a fight like that on purpose, I think that'll give him a much better chance of coming out on top of this fight. Yeah, I totally agree. I love the idea using all your weapons, even if you don't use all your weapons. Like, threaten the takedown. Just threatening the takedown changes the way Poria is going to fight.

If he actually believes he can get taken down, he's going to make adjustments so he doesn't get taken down, and that's going to alter the way he fights. I think, like, I agree, use all your weapons. Even if you're not going out there trying to grind out a five-round decision on the ground, at least threaten with it. You know what I mean? I like when,

I love when Gachi fights in a phone booth. When he gets in the clinch with guys and beats him up from there, good body shots in close. Because Dustin is really good at distance, man. Dustin is such a good distance fighter. When he has you a distance, he will absolutely pick you apart.

His boxing's incredible. His power's incredible. And he can just pour it on, man. He can pour it on round after round after round and not go away. I think for Gashy's got to keep it close. He can't just stand on the outside and tray punches with Porier

because that's just like a, I'm not saying losing proposition, but it's going to be a lot tougher to win that fight, in my opinion. Like just trading punches on the outside of Dustin Porey. Seems like a really bad idea. So I think getting in closest key. And I love what you said. Use all your weapons. Again, just threaten.

Threaten, threaten the takedown, threaten the clinch. Threaten little things that you didn't do the first time around to make Dustin think. And then you have a better chance of landing something when he's not looking or when he's, like, he's in a guard where he's posturing to try to stop a takedown. Well, suddenly you're maybe you open up his head or he opened a. his body or he open up his legs, whatever it is you're doing to make him alter the way he would fight. That's the way you win. Um, because we got to imagine like this. I'm not going to say it's it for Justin Gachy with this fight because, you know, obviously, you know, he's such an exciting, fun guy to watch that it's never going to take him that long to get back into title contention. Because, I mean,

he just, I mean, he lost, he lost Olivera beat, uh, Raphael Fiziv in a fight. You and I absolutely loved. Um, and now he's getting poor. So Jake Gage, a report, neither one of the, these guys ever going to be far away from the top. But I don't think he wants to go into against Dustin Porre. Right? Like no one wants to go into against anybody. So I mean, this is a big, this is a big moment for Justin. Yeah, I agree. And I was interested.

You said that how good dust it is from a distance. And I think that's kind of what I was getting out with GPD. Again, using our weapons, like, don't get into that distance war with Dustin. That's totally what he wants. So, you know, when I say use our weapons, like when you're

at that distance, like Dustin, again, they're going to go to war at some point. Like, Dustin's going to bite down on his mouthpiece and come forward. Gage you'll bite down his mouthpiece and get forward. But let's try to minimize that amount of time if you're Dustin, if you're Justin Gagey. Let's try to minimize the amount of time that we're, you know, wing and punches as hard as we can at a distance. And in those moments in time, that's when you can shoot for a takedown, slow the fight

down, make Dustin think twice about doing that again. That's when you can, you know, start moving your feet a little bit, throwing some jabs. so Dustin has to work to get to that range. There's a lot of different things you can do right there. Like you said, clinching or shooting. But trying to minimize that amount of time, I think, would go a long way for him. Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

And here's the problem, you know, listen, this is always going to be, I mean, Dustin Porre is going to be a tough matchup for anybody. No one's just rolling over on Dustin Porre. But Dustin is so good at just mounting damage over rounds. He hits really, really hard, but he does it for, I mean, he just does it round after round. It's kind of scary the way he could just pour it on and keep coming. And like, I'm just like, I said this to somebody.

I can remember who I was talking to doing an interview, but I was like, it still shocks me. Like, Dustin has never actually been the undisputed lightweight champion. Like, he's had the interim title. He's fought for the title a couple of times. But it's like so bizarre to me. He's so good, but he's never actually been an undisputed champion. Like, it's kind of wild to me.

So like, listen, I'd be wrong if I didn't say I favor Porier to win. Like, I mean, he's got all the tools. He's still an incredibly dangerous fighter. And even though I think Justin Gachie has gotten a lot better of not just getting lured into those crazy wars, like he looked really good against Fiziv. Like, he really had a good fight against Fiziv. The problem is he still gets hit. He got hit a couple of hard times by Fiziv. And I just, I think Dustipori might be one of the hardest punchers in the lightweight division, maybe ever.

Like, maybe ever, just like punch for punch, one of the hardest punchers ever. He's going to get hit at some point. And can he survive that barrage for five rounds? I don't know, man. Like I said, it's just, it's hard for me. I mean, it's hard for me to pick against Dustal Pori against anybody not named Islam Akacham. Like, I picked Porier to beat Oliver.

Now, Olavera obviously beat him, but, like, I picked Poria to win that fight. You know, so I don't think anyone's beating Islam right now, but I don't know, man. Like, I have a hard time picking against Poria in this one. I really do. And I love Gaichi, man. I love the motivation he's had. I love the fire that's kind of burning inside of him. He's really motivated.

to get this one back and then get the title fight, but I don't know, man. I just think Dustoporri is so damn good. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely going to be an interesting amendment. It may come down to, like, you know, who does have more fire left in him at this point, you know what I mean? And if I got a guess on that, you know, it's totally a guess.

You know, I'm going to guess Gagie, and I'm probably going to pick Gagey to win this fight. I think that he can make adjustments to win this fight. It may be the ones that I just call him. called or you called. It may be his own that are different that we're not even thinking about. But I think he can make the adjustments. You know, when you said, we talk about Dustin Poir, you know, he's one of the hardest punchers, but, but almost, I don't even like saying the hardest puncher because he's not like a one, well, one punch knockout guy, but he's got

like the stiffest, like fight changing punch. You know what I mean? Where almost like Bani Pacquay. Like he didn't knock out a lot of guys. And they both happen to be south. policy. They didn't knock out a lot of guys with one punch. But when he hit guys, like the fight changed right there. You know what I mean? When he landed a clean shot, like the guy's, the opponent's mentality just changed and the guy did not want that again. And that's what I see with Dustin Poir. And he's going to have to land one of those punches on Gagie. Of course, he did it the first time they fought. But I think he's going to have to land again. I think Gage is to be a little bit more aware. I've seen more improvement out of Gagie. I think he's fought more than Dustin.

so, to be fair, but I think I've seen more improvement out of him since their last fight. And with that, I'm going to have to lean towards Gagey in this. Yeah, I agree there. That's the one thing. Like, you know, obviously, Porre had the two fights with Connor. I don't know what Connor were seeing what we saw in those fights, like where Connor was at in his career when he fought Porriere, nothing against, that's certainly nothing against Dustin's fault, like the, you know, whether Connor was, you know, checked out maybe

in those fights. I don't know. But Porre, you know, he steamrolled him. and got wins in both fights. And then obviously went out and beat Chandler, which was an impressive win, and he beat Chandler more thoroughly than Gachie did. Gage had a bit more of a war with Chandler.

But yeah, I don't know. Like, I do like a super motivated Gachie. I think that's going to be interesting because he's got revenge on his mind and he knows that, I mean, he was honest when I talked to him after the physique fight. He knows he doesn't have a long time left in the sport. Like, he's like, you know, I got a few couple years left.

And when you say a couple years, like, realistically, that's like two or three fights. Like, you don't fight five times a year. rarely does anyone do that. So he knows, like, he knows that he's probably making, like, what may be his final run of the title, right? Like, if he's going to get another shot, you know, it's probably now or never.

So I like that kind of motivation. And Dustin, you know, Dustin's set. Like, Dustin made a lot of money in those two counterfeits. I'm sure he made a boatload of cash. He's probably set for life. So as he has fired up, maybe, I don't know. So, yeah, I like what you're saying. Like, in my gut, like, I just, I have a hard time picking against Dustin Porre.

Because he's so good. and he's so technical and he's so he's just he's such a good fighter and he and i think stylistically he has what he needs to do to beat just and gachi but like my heart says gachi like i just i don't know there's some about gaiji like just the way he's been fighting lately i love it but yeah we'll go we'll go opposites here you and gaiji i'll see we'll see how this one goes um i mean it's it is a little bit of a coin flip like that but i like what you said about uh you know Gagy has to know that he's, you know, in his last run. And, you know, Poyer probably doesn't feel a whole lot different, to be honest, either, right?

Like, he's got to know that, you know, he doesn't have a lot left. But I think Gage is going to be fighting for a little bit more. You know, that's, and I think that may be the difference maker. And again, you know, I kind of, I like what Trevor Whitman does. I think it seems that he pulls out these great strategies pretty much regularly at this point, you know. So, and that's the kind of things that make me lean towards Gagey, but it's, you know, this is, it really is a coin flip, you know, because both these guys are going to, like I said, the chances of them biting down their mouthpieces and swinging for the fences at some point

is pretty high. So, you know, when that happens, you know, it really is a coin flip. But again, I think Gagy's hunger and motivation. might have got him training a little bit harder. But, you know, who are we to say, right? That's a completely hypothetical guess, and hopefully Dustin doesn't want to kick my ass for saying that. We'll see how it plays out.

All I know is it's going to be entertaining. Whether it goes one round or five rounds, it's going to be entertaining. Real quick, before we get out of here, Matt, the other big fight on the card, of course, co-main event, Jan Blahovich, against Alex Prayer. And this fight gained even more stakes, as we know,

because late last week, Jamal Hill relinquished his light heavyweight tie. He tore. He had a rupture to kill him. his tendon suffered in a basketball game. Really unfortunate, man, my heart breaks for Jamal Hill going through that. He's had surgery. He's going to be out for probably the better part of a year.

So now we already knew, like Jan Belhovic, I interviewed Jan about a week and a half ago. And he said, you know, he's been promised a title shot if he can win. Because the rest of division has kind of been staying stagnant. Like Ankyl I have hasn't fought since he fought Blohovic. Now, like, now that Jamal Hill's out, like we know Yuri Parashka is going to come back. So I imagine he's going to be one half of whatever title fight. gets made and it would make a lot of sense. The winner of this one would end up fighting

Yeri and who wouldn't want to see Yeri and Yon and who wouldn't want to see Yeri and Alex Pereira? My God, either one of those fights, sign me up. But the stakes raised, right? Like the stakes raised now because of what's going on in the Light Heavyweight division. We talked a lot about Alex in those two

fights against Adasania and you know Pereira very well because you follow kickboxing far closer than I do so you know him very well. How do you think Alex is going to do it Light Heavyweight? I know this is an unknown because we just, you know, he's big, he's powerful. We see all the videos. He's strong, but that still doesn't mean, you know, Luke Rockhold looked big and strong

and huge when he went and fought Jan Blahovich and Blahovich broke his jaw. So, you know, we can sit here and talk, oh, man, he looks great. But what do we expect out of prayer at light heavy weight? Yeah, I guess it's hard to imagine Yon not doing the same game playing he did against Izzy, right? So it's just, and, you know, to be realistic about it, I think Izzy probably had trained in the wrestling and jiu-jitsu and stuff more than Alex, right? It may or may not be true, but that's kind of

from the outside looking in, that's what I would guess off the top of my head. So, you know, you've got to think that Jan's probably going to be able to do that same thing. You know, is Alex going to be able to stop it? And is he going to be able to get off shots or having a game plan or something to be able to stop that? It's hard to imagine. You know, it's a weird one because of my head, like, I like Alex Prayer. I think it's a really cool story when he was able to come in and become champion.

But I kind of feel like we're still seeing Alex Prayer as an unfinished product. Like, he got the title shot against Israel because he had the wins over him in kickboxing. He didn't get it because he walked a murderer's row at middleweight and earned it. He didn't go through Robert Whitaker and Drake his Duplice. And, you know, he didn't walk a murderer's row. He beat Sean Strickland, which is a good win. But, like, he got it because he had the rival with Disney. Let's all just be honest about that.

He didn't get it because he was truly the best middleweight contender. And then the rematch, you know, it was a great fight, and Israel caught him and knocked him out of Sanya. I think the problem here is, Matt, what you said, is like I still think we're seeing a really good Jan Blahovic, like one of the best light heavyweights in the world, against really kind of still like an unknown a little bit in Alex prayer. Like he got taken down pretty much at will by Israel in their first fight.

And Israel is not a wrestler. Like he's not a grappler and he got taken down and absolutely handled. Now, sure, Alex can get better. He trains with Glover to share. He's going to be better. But, I mean, how much better are you going to be against the guy who's going to be that much bigger, that much stronger and that much better of a grappler? And Yon is actually a pretty good grappler.

And he, you know, he suffocated Israel on the ground. Like, Izzy couldn't get out from under him. And he was advancing, passing guard, getting to side control. Like, I don't know, man. Like, unless Yon just goes out there and decides I'm going to go scorched earth and just trade punches. with Alex Pereira, which I just, I have a hard time believing. That's what he told me. He's like, I want to test my stand-up against his stand-up.

That's what you're going to tell me. You're going to tell me that. You're going to tell the world that. You're going to tell Alex Pereira that in particular. But what happens in the fight is you're going to take him down an elbow's head into the canvas. I just, I think, I think Jan Belhovic wins this fight. I just, this is a, like, this is a tough matchup. And credit, credit to Pereira for taking it.

But, man, I just, this is like, to me, it's an uphill battle for him to win this one. Yeah, and Jan is one of those guys that, at least for me, he's always surprised me, man. He always comes and finds a way to win, you know, somehow, like it doesn't always look pretty. It's not always like, you know, the most technical, smoothest, most efficient looking thing, but he finds a goddamn way to get in there and get it done.

And you got to give a lot of credit to that. And, you know, I think a lot of the people probably picking, are probably, you know, falling into the hype a little bit, you know, like you said, he's a little bit unproven. So you kind of can't base it off of that. If prayer goes in there and does it, you know, you know, more power to him. I love Alex Praira. You know, he's definitely like one of my favorite fighters I've ever watched. So, you know, I'd probably even be cheering for him. But Jan Blahovic might be an underrated guy, to be honest. I mean, he is a hell of a good fighter. And like you said, he did that.

like I said before, you know, he did it to Izzy. Like, I don't, I don't see where Alex has anything. You know, the Izzy couldn't bring to him. Yeah. Might be a little stronger. You know, obviously, like he hits harder and stuff. But, you know, we're talking about grappling-wise, right? Like, like, Jan's going to take him down and hold him down like he did, Izzy.

Yeah, it's kind of funny. Like, this is a weird word. Like, I like Alex going to light heavyweight. It seemed like that was a really tough. cut for him to get to 185. And maybe that did deplete him a little bit in the rematch. You know, you know, as well as I do. You know, water around the brain. When you weight cut,

it's harder to come back from that. Maybe he wasn't able to take punches as much, all those kind of things. But like, Alex prayer against Johnny Walker, Alex prayer against Khalil Roundtree, guys who you know are going to probably stand up and strike with him and aren't nearly as much of a threat on the ground.

That's kind of where I'm like, okay, let's see those kind of fights first and just let him progress. Like, let him build his way into being a legit light heavyweight because right now you're throwing him in against one of the what four best guys in the world in the division um there's just a tall test man and like i said i like Alex i'm with you man i love watching him super fun style but we know that we know bollovich is good on the ground we know he can take you down and just mall you on the ground especially if you're not good on the ground he did it to israel he's done it to other people um yeah

i just i don't know man like again credit to Alex he didn't shy away from a tough fine but this is a really tough fight. Like that's like, to me, like day one at Light Heavyweight, you don't want to call on, you don't necessarily want to call him, even though Parashka is a little more wild, but you don't really want to call on him. You probably don't want to call on Ankelyev.

You probably don't want to call him Blohovic on day one, and maybe not even Alexander Rackich, depending on your day. Do you really want to, like on day one of the new weight class? Is that the way you want to go? I don't know. And so, again, credit to Alex for doing it. But, yeah, I'm picking you on Blahovitch to, I'm going to pick it.

You know what? I'm going to pick him to ground and pound finish this one. I think he's going to finish Prairah because I don't think Pereira can defend as well on the ground as Israel did. Israel still played defense and was able to hold on to Yon. I don't know that Alex has the experience because he can roll with Glover to share all day long, but Glover's not hitting him full force with punches on the ground. He eats a couple elbows from Yombovich.

That may totally change the game. Right, right. this might be the one card that ruins what I just said or the one fight that ruins this card being the greatest card ever, right? Because Yon may make this a boring fight. You know what I mean? Like he might just take him down and hold him down.

And that could kind of ruin the whole chances. But and outside of that, I don't know, this whole card. I can't see that in any other fight on this main card. Like it's just going to be a phenomenal card. So, you know, and that's, Yon's best idea, right? Like, it's not like Alex is some little guy, you know, coming up to 205, you know, a true 185.

Like he's a true 205er, that cut down to 185, I think is more accurate. And so when he comes up and he's not going to lose his power, you know, he's going to still be hitting hard, man. And you make a mistake, like Alex will put you the fuck out. Well, yeah, and listen, I don't, I don't discount that Yon could win by knockout, though too. I mean, look at, you know, I was actually just thinking about this recently. Remember when Gokon Saki came in the U.S.C.? Everyone's like, oh my, because I watched Gokon a lot in K1.

Gocom is a monster, man. That dude was a monster. I loved watching him. And I was super excited to see him make his transition into the UFC and MMA. Similar situation as Alex had a few fights came in. Kalil Rouncery laid him out. Like Kaliloranjee laid him out flat in his second, I think, second UFC fight. Pereira is a better striker, a better striker than Yonel Blyhovic. He's a world-class kickboxer. Doesn't mean you can't get clipped on the chin and get knocked the fuck out. Like that's just the reality. Like, Jan Blohovich hits really, really hard. And like I said, like Luke Rockhold has a really good kicking game, solid striking, and he laid him out, broke his jaw. I mean, there's no guarantee that like even if it's a stand-up

fight, that he can't catch and finish Alex Pereira. Like Alex has, Alex has one great chance to win this fight. And that's if it just stays standing and he's able to, if he's able to, if he's implement his will in a striking fight. Outside of that, you know, Alex, excuse me, Yon can knock him out on the feet, can catch him, can out grapple him, out wrestling, maybe submit him. I mean, we don't know what kind of jiu-jitsu game he has. Like, Yon just has more ways to win this fight. Yeah, I'm right there with you.

And, you know, I think we're going to find out a lot about Alex in this fight, right? Like, I guess that's kind of why the fight was made. But boy, if he goes out and, and proves us wrong, it's going to be gigantic for him, bro. He's going to blow the fuck up, man. He'll probably be fighting for the light heavyweight title next. So I'm pretty excited to see this fight, man. I think it could be a really great fight.

And it's not like Yom Lo is just an easy guy knockout, not like he's a chenny guy or anything. Like he's a solid as fuck, man. He can take a shot. So, you know, this is going to be potentially a great fight. But, you know, if I'm Yon's coach, I'm like, bro, don't throw a punch. grab up my fucker's legs, put him on his back.

And, you know, let's go eat some pizza and drink some beer after, man. You know, like, do you want to go to the hospital after or the bar, you know? Yeah, go out there and blast double and spend your time on the ground. Yeah, bro. Like, like I said, like, what, you know, what do you want to do? You want to walk to the plane tomorrow? You want to be on a wheelchair, you know, even with a wind, like you might be on a wheelchair. You might be, you know, in the hospital with a wind.

you know, go out there and let's make us an easy night. And, you know, it doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Like Alex ain't no joke, you know. And he's one of those guys, I feel like never trained with him or thing. But I get the feeling like he picks things up really quickly, you know, because he has a very awkward style on the way he does things. And I bet, you know, he kind of does it his way. But I bet he just picks things up really quickly.

And I've always kind of felt like he's got the kind of natural body athleticism, like for groundwork, you know, like, like if he would have started doing jiu-jitsu, you know, he would probably been, you know, world champion. So, um, I think he could also, there's a very good possibility. He surprises the shit out of us in this.

Well, don't forget, Alex Prair brought in the secret weapon. He worked with Dylan Danis for this camp. And I tell you what, man, the secret weapon that is Dylan Danes, the guy who trains and never fights, but he's I'm totally joking if you couldn't tell right now about that one. Uh, he did train with Dylan Danis. That is real. I don't

know how much that's really going to benefit him in this fight, but you didn't train with Dylan Dennis. As goofy, much of a goofball as Dylan Dennis is, as much shit as he takes. Like, he is a good jihitsu guy. Oh, he is. No, he's legitimately a good jiu-jitsu guy.

He just doesn't do anything anymore. Like, that's the... He just... He doesn't actually compete. Yeah, I mean, his mind. I don't know what the hell is wrong with his mind. I watched his interview on, with the one guy, Air Hawani. And, um, I was like,

my God, bro. Like, I mean, he says these things on Twitter and stuff, just like knowing like he's going to take all this shit. And it's like, it's like, why do you want to go around? Like, why do you want this to be your brand, bro? Like, I don't get it, man. Like he kind of embraces, you know, everybody talking shit to him and him just acting like a fucking idiot and stuff. And I just, I don't get it.

So, but he is a legitimate black belt and a good jihitsu guy. So I think it's a good thing that Alex is working with him. yeah he's legitimately good as a grappler um but yeah i don't know what else he is these days uh certainly doesn't seem to be doing much else i can tell you i asked i asked gary tonem about him before gary had his fight last week and gary just shook his head and he's just like i don't want to talk about that guy he's just because gary gary obviously beat him in jih jihiz and he's just like uh like you just hear the groan and in gary's voice is just like oh so that's again i don't know why Dylan does that to himself.

It's like he has the talent to go out there and, you know, actually fight and be a name and do some good things. And like he just destroys his own brand himself. I don't get it, man. Somebody explain this to me. Yeah, I don't know. Someone's going to explain to me how he makes a living. That's what I want to know.

Like, is he teaching? Because he ain't fighting. He ain't competing. He doesn't compete anymore. So like, what are you doing to make money? Are you just like an influencer now? Is that what you're doing? Like, you're going like the old Jake Paul rally.

Like, what's going on here? Yeah, it's a weird thing. I remember when he used to train with, when he first started training with Connor, and then he transitioned. He fought in Bellator, and I was like, okay,

he's going to make like a career now. And then he just stopped fighting. Like, he just disappeared. Now all he does is talk shit on Twitter. Yeah, I think he won the lottery or something, bro. He's just like,

I'm going to take stupid shit for the rest of my life. I guess, maybe. I don't know. Matt, what else you got coming up? As we said, we're not going to be on the air next week.

So we're going to be off for a week. We'll return after U.S. 2991. So what do you got coming up in the next couple weeks? I'm just going to get back to training, man. I just got back from Gellonberg, working on one of my Airbnbs, got it all stitched up, man, running the way it should have been running the whole time. Might fly down to Texas to one of my other ones here in the next couple weeks

and button it up a little bit. But, you know, mainly just getting back to training. Got some guys competing pretty soon. I'm going to be helping these guys out. and but mainly you know just getting back in the gym more and summer's coming to it in like I said kids are going back to school so you know that allows me a lot more time to be in the gym and push myself a little bit harder and I will start

testing out these injuries and stuff that I can hopefully get back into camp man and you know maybe get one in by the end of the year hopefully Mark Coleman's got a boxing match in October is that I have Mark's boxing in October so that's going to be interesting he's been coming in gym training getting ready and i'll tell you what i spar with him their day i put it on instagram and like you can see where he like he hit me you know and it kind of surprised me you know i just wasn't expecting him to uh throw what you know he's a lot longer than he feels like but anyway dude we were not throwing hard at all and it fucking hurt bro like dude his punch like

i'm not sure if i've ever been punched that hard before and and you He wasn't putting much into it, you know, like he really wasn't trying. Like he might have the most power of anybody I've ever felt. And I'd say so. I've spar with big heavy weights. You know, I've sparred with powerful guys. And I'm not sure. Like I was sitting there thinking about it.

I was like, dude, have I ever been hit by somebody that hard that wasn't trying to throw hard? Like, it felt like, you know, somebody trying to knock me out. And I rewatched the video. I was like, dude, was he like swinging hard or something? Was I just not paying me? No. Yeah. He was going easy.

Like, it is very fucking shocking. That guy's power. Imagine being underneath that dude and him dropping ground and pound. No wonder he's the godfather of ground and pound. Imagine taking punches on the ground from that dude. That's the last place you'd want to be. Dude, I don't know how anybody ever did it. He's a gorilla, man.

He's just a gorilla, man. Just a huge monster dude who could just throw hands. I've said, dude, if he would have lived his life, right? he would have lived to be 150, no doubt about it. It's absolutely amazing, man. He's been through what he's been through. And he's still back in the gym, energetic, getting strong, getting into shape. And, you know, just a freak of nature, man.

That's about all you can say. He's just a goddamn freak of nature. There was a clash of heads in a UFC fight a couple weeks ago. And somebody tweeted out me. And they said, if they still allowed headbuts in the UFC, Mark Coleman would still be the heavyweight champion right now. If they still allow headbets on the ground, Mark Coleman still be heavyweight champion right now.

I actually agree with that. Randy Couture, though. Yeah. That would have been his arched, Randy Couture and Brock Lesnar. That would have been his arch nemesis. It would have been between those three. Because Brock with head butts,

that's a tough, ever come to, though. Dude, I remember watching the old Coleman videos do when he used to just, I mean, he would slam his head down in the be able. Dude, and it looked so painful. like it was because he only had like three inches to work but man he would throw that head and god it's the worst like i've been headbedded before oh yeah i have it sucks real bad it sucks real bad yeah it sucks

real bad yeah if they hit with the right spot on their head doesn't even hurt them either and they can yeah it sucks bro like it's worse to getting punched for sure i think an elbow is like the only thing compared to it yeah imagine and also like when you're headbutting you're not necessarily headbutting in the forehead like their head button you in the nose in the mouth like that's the last thing you want dude i just when i watch those old videos with colman i'm like my god that looks like the worst place to be in the world i'm i can't imagine i'm not coming up with any other worst places dude that's that's so crazy so yeah well we'll be back after 299 to catch up obviously check out all of matt's uh you're on social media everywhere at i am the immortal

everywhere and uh you got the uh the immortal coffee dot com as well People can pick up their coffee and support Matt Brown that way and get jazzed up on some caffeine to watch some fights. Yeah, that's exactly it, man, at the immortal coffee. Dot com or the immortal coffee.com. Yeah. So check it out, man. Let's go.

And I'm going to be working on these online courses very soon, man. I've been working on them over the summer. I'm going to start putting a lot more energy before I really get hard into a camp. And I'm going to start getting some education out there for everyone, man. Love it, love it. Show support to the guys who support us, so we appreciate it. Obviously, as always, we appreciate everyone that tunes in to the show each and every week. We'll be back in two weeks' time, as I said, post-fight UFC 291.

We'll talk about Gaiji and what actually happened. We'll talk about Balojofich and Pereira, as well as all the other fights. As Matt said, incredible, incredible card, top to bottom. Cannot wait for that one from Utah. So we'll be back after that. Appreciate everyone tuning in. We're obviously always available in all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and, of course, over on the best website,

the world, mhmap fighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon, Martin. Thanks so much for tuning in to another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. We'll see you next week. Thanks for tuning in. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap.

You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.