MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Does Ian Machado Garry Have a Realistic Shot Beating Islam Makhachev at UFC 330?

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin break down the UFC 330 main event and debate what kind of chance Ian Machado Garry has to upset Islam Makhachev and become welterweight champion. We’ll also discuss Usman Nurmagomedov’s next move and how he stacks up to the best of the best in the UFC’s lightweight division plus much more! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend. Matt Brown and Matt, UFC 330 Week, has finally arrived. UFC returns to Philadelphia. And I got to be honest, this isn't a great card top to bottom, if I'm being honest. But the main event is always the selling point. You're talking about the number one pound-for-pound fighter in the sport, Islam Makachab defending his title for the first time against Ian Machado, Gary.

So we got to be honest. It's not the greatest card in the world. You look at top of the building. You're like, this is kind of weird for, like, what is a quote-unquote pay-per-view. But the main event is what sells. And Islam is very, very popular, and obviously the number one pound-for-pound fighter in a sport. So no real complaints. It's just kind of an odd card, I guess.

Yeah. And then, you know, the question is, does it actually turn out to be a good fight, right? Because this could definitely turn out to be a snooze fast fight, too, or a fast fight, you know? Yeah. I mean, Islam. Is this card sponsored by Pita, by the way? I don't think so. I know Ian Garrett is sponsored by Pita.

I tell you, listen, let me talk about this. I have no problem with PETA or whatever, like, if you're vegan and vegetarian, whatever it is, I'm not. But whatever, whatever floats your boat, certainly not against that. But when that came out, people kept hitting me up saying, is Ian just trying to do everything to make people hate him? Because Pete is a very, like, PET is a very polarizing subject. Yeah. I was like, I don't know, man. I don't know if Ian's just like, you know what?

I'm going to embrace him where everyone just hates me. Well, it's interesting because I feel like it's not the type of branding that would make people. hate you but just be disenfranchised but you know what I mean it's like like no one's be like oh you pita lover fuck you like I want to see you lose they're more like pita um I'm not gonna really support you know I mean like it's yeah you know it's different than like the floyd mayweather type hate where you're like dude I got to see this guy loose he won't shut his mouth and or the Connor McGregor you know where where it's polarizing then it's certainly pita's a little bit polarizing but there's there's no like like like bad

of hooligans out there like trying to destroy PETA or just like you know but like what an odd branding choice man yeah it's funny because like there's lots of fires like I've known and he's a little off the rails these days but like Jake Shills was vegan forever like that was

but he like never talked about it like he never really like it was just kind of his thing and he's just like oh yeah he was vegan or he was vegetarian I care which one it was but like it's cool I got no problem with like you know whatever you're doing that's cool like me I'm I'm a meat eater man I ain't a lie like I'm a good I love a good steak, man.

You're not going to take that away from me. But, but yeah, I was just like... What I was wondering, too, was, like, what made Peter decide to reach out to Ian Gary, too, of all people? Yeah, so very, very random. So, yeah, but I was just like, like I said, teach their own, certainly not knocking it, but it's one of those organizations where it's like, it's very polarizing where people have a pretty strong feeling about it one way or the other and out. Ian's like, Peter.

Yeah, it's so odd, man. and yeah I guess I mean we probably don't have to get into it but like the whole his whole brand is just the oddest thing ever and it's almost certainly like his woman running his brand I think you can kind of see that and but like what just the odd way to decide that this is how you want to be portrayed you know like listen to women and women should rule the world and I love pita it's like wait what yeah like who's who's who's who's Who's giving you these notes? Who's telling you this is a good idea? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that's what I mean. And, yeah. But I guess, I mean, that's kind of what tells you that his woman is running the thing, right?

Because you're like, dude, this really isn't the best of it. But like I said, I mean. They'll probably post that headline. That should create a lot of hate there, right? Misogynist, Matt. Well, it's funny because I remember years ago, this was going back in many, many years. And I used to talk to Josh Kostek a lot.

And Josh was like the most hate. fighter in the UFC for a long time coming off a tough and he just had that attitude and the blonde hair. People hated him. And at one point I asked him about that because he's always like, you know, I just embrace it. Like, you know what I mean? At least they care. They hate me, but at least they care to watch me fight.

But at one point he did say, because he was putting, I think he was coming out like a T-shirt line or something. And he's like, well, I got to be honest. He's like, you got to be careful about how much people hate you because at some point you want to sell something, you want to get sponsors. But they're not going to sponsor a guy that everyone absolutely despises. So he's like, yeah, so you've got to find that balancing act. And it's funny because I think during his career, for the early part of his career,

Michael Bispin was one of the most hated guys in the sport. You know what I mean? But as time past, people kind of came to appreciate him. And I love Michael Bain. Like, that's my boy. Like, I love him to death. He's hilarious. And I've hung out with him, you know, in and out of the fighting world.

And, like, I love him to death. I've always said I thought he was like a great dude. He just pissed people off. You know what I mean? But like, he kind of had that career arc where he started out where people hated him. And by the end of his career, like, when he beat Luke Rockold, I think the whole world was kind of ruin for him in a way. You know what I mean?

You're like, he finally got. He finally won. But yeah, it's a careful line. You have to tread because at some point you want to be sponsored and someone to buy the products you're sponsored by and they absolutely despise you. They're probably not going to do that. Which, I mean, that brings up a good point.

Like, what if he and Gary finds a way to God win this fight? Like, how is the fans who are actually going to be? I mean, I don't think he's going to win the fight. I'm not sure if anybody really thinks he's going to win this fight. But, man. that would be that's going to be if that somehow happens that'd be a really interesting it'd be just interesting to see yeah I think it would be very interesting to see as well but yeah but listen the likelihood yeah the likelihood is unlikely and and to that point Matt I mean

listen Islam is Islam Alcachev is number one pound for pound for a reason the guy is so dominant so good he's good everywhere you know the only knock you could have on him in that debut against Jack Della Madelana is that like he didn't get a finish but he absolutely mauled him on the ground. I, by the way, this is not me making excuses. I said that and I like J.D.M. very much by the way. He's a very good dude. But I was like, it felt to me like that wasn't a fight and you can't really blame Islam for not finishing because I think Jack trains specifically just not to get submitted.

He doesn't do much anything in the fight, but like he avoided getting submitted. And that was like, if that's your game plan, sure. But, like, to me, that's the only reason we didn't see a finish. I think Jack was just like, I'm not going to get submitted. So he was, like, fighting out of every bad position. But that's all he did. He didn't produce any offense. He never hurt, you know, never hurt Islam.

But I think Islam's going to be fine at welterweight. I mean, when he stood next to Jack, he was huge. And Jack's a big welterweight. So I think Islam's adjusted to the weight class. And this is kind of a weird matchup because, like, when you think about, like, Michael Morales being such a big, you know, huge welterweight with, you know, vicious knockout power, Carlos Proch, same kind of thing. and you get Ian Gary, who's a very good fighter, no doubt about it, but he's not a finisher. He's a guy who goes out there kind of outpoints you.

He won 29, 28 decisions, things like that. And I think you've got to have a little bit more danger to present to a guy like Islam Ocatchev, like Dustin Poria. I know Dustin Pori may not have been the peak of his crew when they fought, but like, Dustin Pori can still put you out with one shot. So there's a danger factor. I don't know that Islam looks at Ian and says, man, what a danger factor I have in this fight. Yeah, yeah. And look, I never knocked someone for just being a decision guy like Ian.

Like, I think that's a silly criticism of people. You know, it's hard to finish people. You know, when you're fighting these top guys, it's freaking hard. And, you know, he is an extremely skilled guy. I've said, I've given praises for a long time that, you know, I think he's got championship material in him. And, you know, I don't doubt that he can make this a good fight. It's just like, he's just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

you know, had he got a fight with Jack Delam Adelina, I mean, I think it would be like kind of a 50-50 fight, you know. But here's Islam Makachev, the wrong guy at the wrong time, you know. And so much of that is in this sport. So much of it seems to come down to timing and matchups and things like that. So, you know, it's just unfortunate for you. And I think he does have championship potential. I'd love to see him against the other top guys, the protest is, the Morales and guys like that. but Islam is just about as bad of a matchup as you could possibly put together for him. Yeah, I mean, Islam is so dominant. And by the way, like, I know Ian has said, like, it's a complete mismatch on the feet. I disagree.

Like, I think that I think Islam is serviceable enough to survive on the feet. Well, that's to your point where he's not a finisher, you know, so it's like, even if it's a mismatch on the feet, like, you better make it not a mismatch on the ground because that's probably what Islam's going to be doing here. Islam obviously comes from an incredible camp. We all know, Kabim de Magamatov, you know, Javier Mendez, that team there, just produce champions constantly. And Islam, I think that gets missed a lot when we talk about a guy like Islam is talking about, like, man, when a dominant grappler is so strong. He's like a freak of nature on the ground, blah, blah, blah.

But he's a very smart fighter. Like, he doesn't do stupid things in his fight. Like, you don't see him go out there and be like, you know what? Today I decide I'm going to be the best striker in the world. And then go out there and just get you beat up on the feet. he's not that way, you know what I mean? Like, he knows where his advantages lie. And I think a lot of that comes from Khabibibh as well.

Like, Kibibn never heard what he was going to do. Kibb was going to take you to the ground, mall you and submit you or knock you out. That wasn't – everyone knew it and couldn't stop it. And now it's just kind of passed down to Islam Akcha where he's the same way. He's like, I'm going to take you down. I'm going to beat you up and I'm going to submit you or knock you out. Now you got to stop me. And to date, no one's done it.

So I just – And with that said, I mean, even Kibibb was way wilder on the feed too. you know, again, we knew what he was looking to do, but he left himself open to get hit, right? Islam's very good at, you know, staying fundamental on the feet. I think Islam, his coach, I talked to Javier Mendez before the fight, and he's like, I think this win and maybe one more, and I think people got to start talking about Islam in that goat conversation. And I was like, yeah, you're absolutely, now listen, I've said a million times in the show, I'll say it again. John Jones, to me, is the greatest of all time, and it's going to take.

a lot for anyone to surpass it. But I think it's okay to say the conversation, right? Because George St. Pierre is in that conversation. You told me you have George St. Pierre number one. Can't really complain. Can't really say, oh, no, it's John Jones. I wouldn't argue with you about it because it's him. Or if you said Demetri's Johnson, 11

title defenses, you know, unbelievably skilled guy. I might disagree a little bit more of that just because I think the body of work is bigger, bigger for GSP and John Jones. But again, no real complaints. The DJ's a legend. I have no problem with that. I'm not saying, is Islam jumps over John Jones and becomes Barna and whatever.

It's always going to be a subjective thing. But he's right. If he wins a couple more fights and defends his title of Welterway, which he's already done to most title defenses ever in lightweight history, five, if he can go out there and be Ian Gary and maybe he beats Michael Morales the next one or he beats Carlos Proches and the next one, whatever,

you got to put him in that conversation. Because, yeah, he does have one loss very early in his career. And then outside of that, he's been absolutely totally dominant and then you can say he's doing it across two-way classes which is probably to complain about the whole two-division thing anyways most people just do it once and leave or you know what I mean they never defend the belts he's actually defending

the belts yeah yeah exactly I'm with you you know it probably wouldn't surpass John Jones right now but like there's arguments to be made right if he if he defends a couple of times and if someone come in and said they believe it's Islam like you can have a debate

about it and there's a there's a two-sided debate there it's not not one-sided anymore. You know, you can certainly bring up John Jones steroid shit, right? I mean, there's, you know, the body of work. You could talk about the different cross-end divisions you can talk about. You know, there's a lot to bring up there. So I agree with Javier on that.

Yeah, I mean, he's just, he's so, like, so phenomenal on what he does. And it's just like, I think he and Gary is a very good fighter, by the way. I think he's a very, I think there are definitely fights he would win. Like, look what he did in Carlos Prontas. He completely took that guy. out of his game and dismantled him over five rounds. That was a very impressive performance. And we've seen what Carlos could do, man.

That dude's a bad guy, man. What he did to Jack Delo and Madalina is like, Jesus Christ. Ian's a very good fighter. But like you said, you're just talking about the bad place, the bad time. And I just think Islam is so good at what he does that I just think it's going to take Ian out of his game. You know what I mean? Like I think Ian is a very good fighter, but I think Islam is an all-time great. and there's just levels, as D.C. likes to say, there's levels in this game.

And I think, I think you're right. I think this is just a terrible matchup for Ian. Like, I just think it's a really, really bad matchup for him. Unless, and like I said, unless Islam just abandons all, you know, strategy and just, you know, I'm going to strike with his guy for five rounds. But outside of that, I don't give Ian a great chance here. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't know where do you beat him? Where do you beat Islam?

Right, right. And, I mean, he's got to stop his takedowns, right? I mean, that's the big thing. And then somehow, you know, when. on points on the feet or or you know laying some big shots to make his I'm a little bit shy um of coming in again and you know or land some big shots you know and get a knockout which again Ian is just not known for but you know it's not like it couldn't happen but I mean it's a pretty clear obvious it's you know the old school we still get these matchups from 1990 all the time right

the striker versus grappler and you know of course like Ian has good grappling and Islam has good striking so it's not pure as it used to be but you know I think we know very clearly what both people's game plan is here and it's just a matter of who can implement it and when you have someone at the level of Islam and his wrestling it's just hard to imagine that you know someone's going to catch up to that unless they've been wrestling their whole life yeah I think about what like you know what Islam did to like olivera on the ground olivera is like one of the best grapplers ever and it was just like, it was like eye opening. You're like, oh my God, like he just

mauled him on the ground. This is Charles Olavera we're talking about here. This is a guy who's like, you know, most submissions and history, all these kind of things. I just, like, I feel like it's just a matter of time. Like, I feel like, you know, maybe we have a close first round. And Ian stops a couple takedowns and it ends up been a striking battle. Second round,

you know, Islam maybe gets him down but doesn't do a lot of damage, but the seeds are planted. And then by round three, it's like, take him down, can't get up. Elbows start coming down. You know, fourth round, he's got you, you know, just beat up and miserable, catch you into dars, and it's over. That's kind of how I see this playing out.

Like, I think Ian can hang tough a little early because that's just when you're fresh. You could sprawl, things like that. And by the way, Islam's not just like a straight double-leg guy. Like, he's very much like Kibu, puts you against a cage, take you down and just maul you. But I just think, like, to me, it's just a matter of time. Like, I feel like, for me, I think Islam just chips away, chips away, chips away, gets the takedowns and just, you know, it's demoralizing, too.

You stop a take down early, but then you get taken down again and again and again. Even if you get back up again, it just becomes demoralizing and exhausting. And we know Islam doesn't really run out of gas. I think he's even better suited now at Welterbury. He's not cutting weight or cutting as much weight. So I just think like fourth, fifth round getting those deep waters, Islam's going to take over. And I think he's going to finish him in the fourth or the fifth. But I hope it's a good fight.

But I just got to be honest. I just don't see a lot of angles where I can be like, well, Ian can do this. You know, Ian's best hope is just stuffing the takedown and beating him on the feet. That's literally, like, that's the only way I can see I'm winning this in reality. I'm saying, like, could he catch him? Yes, we all know that kind of stuff. But, like, I don't see a great path to victory for Ian.

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I couldn't agree more. And, you know, the biggest issue here is that Ian being more of a decision guy and not really a power striking knockout guy, you know, it might take more. that like Islam may be able to make some mistakes on the feet. Let's say Ian is able to keep it on the feet. Like Islam can still make mistakes and he can, you know, theoretically, right? He can make mistakes and he can, you know, he can go a little bit farther to try to give the takedown, right?

Because he's not quite at risk. But from, again, hypothetically on paper, if Ian makes one mistake on the ground, that's probably going to be it. You know, like you can't do silly things on the ground with Islam. on Muckachev, you know, Charles Oliver found that, you know, like, you know, J.D.M. got away with a lot, you know, so, you know, I'm not going to say it's not, it's not, uh, totally

not possible, but, you know, get, we're talking hypothetically on paper, right? We're, we're making a pick here. And, and, um, you know, it just, it feels to me like Islam can make some mistakes, but Ian really can't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's

the reality. And like I said, you know, you can, you can, yeah, I think Islam, and I don't think Islam's like I don't think Islam's a kind of guy like toy you play with his food like he'll if he gets chance put you away he's putting you away yeah I think that says a lot like because I always say this like we're going to talk to Usman to Ragamette off in a second because obviously I think that's going to

come up a lot this week with his free agency but um I think what Khabib and Javier Mendez is kind of like the brain trust of that team like getting people ready coming to the game plan like there may not be like we used to always praise and by the way still he's still a phenomenal coach we used to always praise the game planning

and strategy like Greg Jackson like the way he would be able to like implement a game plan to just pick you know pick opponents apart and help his guys win for such like it was felt like there was a time where they couldn't lose and obviously everyone can lose but like like I just feel like Khabib and and those guys and I was funny every time I talk to one of those guys are like you don't mess around in Kibb's camps like that dude's like he's like there's one ruler in this camp it's me he's like the dictator it's hilarious but um they're smart enough to know how to win fights and like that they're turning into one of the best teams in MMA because like

They don't just win. They dominantly win. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's very rarely, like, a lost round in there. And it's just kind of crazy. When you watch Umar, you watch Usman or you watch Islam or, you know, anybody from that team, like, Khabib has turned into one of the best coaches in the world. You combine that with the guy like Javier Mendez, who's a phenomenal coach,

who's been around forever as well. Like, that's just a lot to go against. You know what I mean? Like, it's just a lot to go against. And I think that Javier and Kibib are going to be, you're going to have, you're going to have Islam ready for whatever's getting thrown at him. And like I said, I might have more doubts if this was Michael Morales, so big, so huge, massive knockout power.

He shuts down a couple takedowns, maybe clips him catch and puts him away. Carlos Prochis, same kind of thing. Like, yeah, nowhere near the ground game, but that dude is just like a holy terror on the feet. And he could elbow you, he'll catch him with a knee, so tall. But I can't say that about Ian. I can't say, like, man, he's got that, he's got that nasty spinning back fist, or he's got this do a wild roundhouse kicker.

He's a good fighter, very good fighter, but he just started the same danger as those guys. So, like, I just don't see a great path to victory for him, whereas Islam, I can see about 10 different ways he could win this fight. Yeah, and like the biggest problem, and look, I think I give Ian a better chance than you do here in this fight, but, you know, the biggest issue is like, you know, I can see a lot of this fight because Ian doesn't present that one-punch knockout power,

you know, at least hasn't shown it. in the past the problem is like i could even if he can defend the takedowns the lot of this fight might be him with his back against the wall you know just defending takedowns like there's so much of islam's game that he has to defend it's going to be hard to find offense you know even if you know he's able to land a bunch of shots like it's just going to be hard to find that those big shots that earn islam's respect and that slow him down and and allow you to open up your game. You know, again, it's a tall order.

Again, I think I give Ian a little bit better chance than most people, just because, you know, I just think he's a really athletic guy, and I think he's very well at adapting to fights, and his takedown defense has certainly come a very long way. He's really good at it. I think he's got great footwork. His length, I think, could play a big factor in this. Again, it's just a matter of like he can't really make mistakes because Islam will capitalize on those mistakes.

He has to fight the perfect fight. And Islam doesn't really have to fight the perfect fight. He's just got to fight his fight. Yeah, that to me, and that's always like the hardest thing, right? Because how often does everyone fight a perfect fight, right? You're going to do that's kind of the nature of the beast. Like you're going to slip, you're going to make a move where you shouldn't, you're going to zig where you should have zagged. And very rarely, you just have a perfect fight.

And like I said, one slip, you know, oh, you slipped. you slip to the ground boom he's on you with a dars choke and you're fighting off a guy who i've heard from people around him like has the strongest like grappling strength is like freakish like he grabs a hold of you it's like what the fuck like so you know but like you said i mean how many times can you say oh i just had a perfect fight that's just so hard to do yeah yeah and that's a again that's where i do give you in a chance like maybe he goes out there and has a perfect night islam wakes up on the wrong side of the bed or something um but it's hard to it's you It's hard to give Ian much of it.

I mean, what's the odds on this fight? I mean, it's got to be tremendous odds for Islam. Yeah, it's pretty heavily for Islam. I care of the exact odds, but it's pretty heavily for Islam, yeah. Yeah, it's got to be at least like four to one probably. I think that's probably where I would put it, like, three or four to one. But, you know, that's the problem with this card, right? There's, you know, they're kind of selling it on the Islam, Ian fight, you know,

because there's not really other great fights on the card. I mean, there'll probably be some great fights. right you know we'll probably watch and be like oh that was you know a lot of great night of fights but there's no star power or you know nothing nothing anybody's getting really excited for and it's honestly that kind of hard to get excited for this fight right i mean we'll watch it because it's is law we want to see the domination and uh you know he watch his journey all the way through to potentially one of the goats and um or we want to see the big upset for me that's what makes it exciting. But, you know, unfortunately, like, this isn't that exciting of a fight card.

Yeah, it really isn't. It was funny. They put the main card up on TV last night during the UFC fights, and I was like, that's a really weird, like, paperview card because it's like the main man. I'm not knocking McKinsey during Julia Robertson, I think is pretty well documented. Like, I've kind of been down on a women's MMA for a while now. Like, it's just not been great. And I mean, we're in August. This is the first women's title fight at the year. It tells you how meaningful it is the UFC as well. But like the rest of the card is just like, how, what?

Like, how is this like, you know, pay-per-view work? Because you think about like the one, even like when Conner's come back, we were like kind of shocked how stacked they did that card. You know, Patty and BSD and the co-main, obviously the main event was what it was. But we're like, damn, they really stacked this card. And it's almost like the opposite here. They're like, yeah, we're just going to put everything on Islam and Ian Gary because I don't know if it's really going to care really much about the rest of the card.

But hey, it's on Paramount Plus. We're not paying $799 now. So at least it was that, I guess. But yeah, it's kind of weird. Kind of weird lineup. But on that note, what did you think about a Quilling kid last night, though? I mean, how impressive was that? That kid is nasty.

It's fun. Like, that kid is like, I picked him to win, but like not like that. Like, I didn't think he would submit Matush Jamrod, man. I was like, damn, that was too. And all in the first round, too, like super impressive, man. He put it on him. Yeah, I was so impressed last night because I picked Gamrod to win, actually. and, you know, yeah, I don't know what I would say.

I mean, that kid just looked sharp from top to bottom. That knee bar was a huge scare. I mean, I don't know what Gamrod thought. I don't know. I'm not sure why he switched it up and went to the hill hook instead because he had that knee bar. Look to me like it was in there tight. There may be a little tactical error there on Gamrott's part, but more,

after, I mean, beyond that one little scare, I mean, it was just quill and just fuck. and being a boss in there the whole time. I love also, it's funny because for years, we've always talked about like how deep and how good the lightweight division is. Isn't it legitimately? Yeah, it's a very good division. But it's funny.

Now you've got Quill and Salcoe kind of out of nowhere, and he's going to be making waves and, like, you know, a guy who was, I mean, he literally just fought in the UFC the first time last year. This is all done in two years' time. He's done all this. But he's going to be in that race now. And because I think that was a lot of frustration where people felt like the, quote-unquote,

the old guard, like they were just fighting each other and they weren't fighting out of the, way of some of the young guys coming up because we did kind of like that stagnant top five for a while there. That's changed now. Yeah, I mean, it's changed big time and I know we're going to talk about like if they bring in Usman or Magaventov soon-ish, I mean, him,

Salkill, like what he just did. I mean, Patty is now, you know, firmly established in that top five and deservedly so what he did to BSD. We're like, damn. But it's kind of fun to like see all those. And you still got Max Holloway out there. You still got Charles Oliver out there. I know we haven't really had a chance to even talk about the

the card day announced for for los Angeles with Joshua Van and Pantoja running it back and then Mauricio Rufi and Armin which was kind of interesting matchmaking because I think we all we all thought it was going to be Charles but from my understanding I'm sure you saw the sad tragic news about Alan Nassiminto

the UFC Flyway who passed away suddenly like a week or so ago I guess him and Charles were very close and Charles just didn't want to fight as early as September after that happened with pay I totally understand that man that's your friend I mean he's 34 years old you don't expect your 34 old friend to just suddenly have a heart attack and die.

So I'm okay with Charles bowing out of that fight. But Rufi and Armin's interesting. But yeah, like, Armin's been kind of lingering around there. But if you get Quillan Sal killed in there and you add in like an Oosman to back about it off, you're like, all right, lightway's just as deadly as ever. Which is exactly why I brought up Quillan because I knew we're going to be bringing up Usman. And how is that for an intro to the UFC?

I love it. I've said, I thought, you know, like, ran out of the gate, I was like, Usman should fight before Quillen won. I said, before that, before that I said he should fight Oliver Holloway on day one. Like, come in and get a big name and get a big, but I'm not,

I'm not opposed to that at all. The only thing I think the UFC might not do if they do that, so, like, they'd be killing one of the two younger prospects. Sure, yeah. But, yeah, but I mean, dude, like, give me whatever, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, when they signed, because they signed Saladin Parnas,

very good prospect, the guy didn't find Dan Hooker in September, I think it's a really fun fight. But, yeah, I'll be curious. If they do get Usen, who does he get on day one? Do they give him a big of a name as like a Holloway? Do they give him an Olivaara? I'll say either him or Patty. I think they're going to, personally,

I think they're going to match up Patty and Olivera. That's the one I think they're going to do now. Because with Armand fighting Rufi, when Oliverer's ready, I think him and Patty in like November or MSG or December, I think that just makes too much sense. and I know it's a fight to Paddy's Wander for a long time. I didn't think we were going to get it because I thought we were going to get Armin in Oliva.

You know what I mean? So I think they're going to do Patty in Olivera. I think that's, you know, one more fight for Patty before potentially getting him back in a title fight. But we'll see. I wouldn't mind any of those fights. Like I think I, when you're, when you're that skilled and you're that good, you're kind like, why fuck around?

Give him the toughest fights day one. And let's see what he's made of. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I think. And, you know, I also think, like, if you put Quillin and, you know, and, you know, I also think Like if you put Quillen and Usman together, yeah, you might, you're not killing off a contender. One contender is going to lose or a prospect contender is going to lose. But like this isn't boxing.

You know what I mean? The guy can come back. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it sets up, you know, for potentially a rematch later, right? For like a title or a title contender. Like, you know, I don't think it's that bad of an idea personally. But I get where they, yeah, you wouldn't want to kill off a prospect.

again, that's why either one of those, I think Patty would be a great matchup, too, because it gives them, you know, of course, if Patty wins, you know, it's always great for him to win, right? You know, he's already popular. But if the other guy beats him, gets them a lot of popularity. Now, this is all speculation, Matt, because we just don't know. I mean, the reality is you look at Usman, the Rebecca Maddof's record undefeated, beating everyone he's fought a couple times in some cases. But he hasn't fought guys in the UFC, which we know, and you say,

many times. It's different level. You know what I mean? The spotlight. All those things are real. The octagon jitters. All that kind of stuff is absolutely real. But how good do you think Usmend-Dermaganov can be? Because I think he's in a slightly different situation coming in on day one because of the team around him. You know what I mean?

Like, he trains daily with Islam. He trains daily, like, he trains daily with the number one power of pound fighter in the world. He trains under a guy who's like one of the greatest lightweights and possibly turning into one of the best coaches in Khabib. That's his cousin. Like, that's his head coach. And obviously, you know, a huge other amount of good teammates around him.

So I think he's in a slightly different position than the average, like, hype machine, you know, a guy coming in, like, even like a Michael Chandler coming in from Bellator or like a Patricia Pitbull coming in from Belator. But I think he's in a slightly different boat. But, like, how good, in your opinion, from what you've seen at Oussman, how good do you think he could be? To be honest, I haven't watched him close enough to give a strong opinion.

But from the little that I have seen, I mean, this sky's the limit, right? And again, with the team that he has around him and the, you know, experience that he has around him, the wisdom that he has around him. I mean, I don't know why this guy wouldn't be the limit there. I mean, there's no reason he couldn't come in and be a champion and, you know, defend the title a bunch of times, potentially go up and weights.

I mean, I don't see, I haven't seen any weaknesses. But again, this is me not having watched him closely a lot. I just haven't watched PFL much. Yeah. I have a lot of belief in this, but, I mean, like, I know that, like, you know, his manager and Ilya Taborius' manager were going back and forth about, like, how, you know, he would, saying he would beat I, and Ili, and he's, you know, he's, like, his manager's, like, you're full of shit, which I understand. You got to rep your guy. But, uh, I don't, I think he can hang with anybody. I have that much belief in Usman, like, having watched his career, because the guy is, like, a phenomenal wrestler coming from that camp, you kind of got to be, but he's also, like, a really, really slick striker. Like, he just knocked out Archie Colgan. and I was like, damn, like, he just decimated him on the feet.

Like, I knew I picked him to win, but I was like, I didn't think it would go that way. But he's just such a well-rounded fighter, and he really is in the prime his career right now. He's 20, I think he's 28, you know what I mean? He's like right in the prime his career right now to come over. I think there's definitely a win-able fight. No, listen, you know, could come in day one and get, you know, Charles Oliverer, and Olaverer wraps him up like an anaconda and chokes him out. That can happen because that's how good Charles Oliver is.

But me personally, I think Ousman can make some serious waves. and I have no problem with it. Like, day one, they put him in there with I. Day one, they put him in there with Patty. Day one, they put him in there with whoever. I think he could do just fine. And like I said, he's right in that primist career where he's like, you know, peak athletic, you know, prime.

I think he does very well, man. And I hope we see this. And I know we talked about PFL and MVP merging and, like, you know, how they should approach this, not trying to go opposite, trying to go right up against the UFC. And I hope they do find success. I mean, it's better for the sport.

if they find success. But I just think it's time for Usman to move on because, like, who else is he going to fight over there? You know what I mean? Like, you don't have, like, a long list of guys just lined up waiting for him.

So I want to see him against Olavera. I want to see him against Max Holloway. I want to see him against, you know, Ilya because I think he's that good. Yeah, I agree, bro. Yeah,

I think it's going to be a fun, man. He's going to inject even more than that lightweight division. Like, what a fucking division that's become, man. I mean, it's always been a very tough division. But, God, I mean, it's just a murderous row all the way, you know, throughout the top 10.

I mean, what a division. So, I mean, it's usually, you know, the welterweight division is the toughest and, you know, middleweight's usually up there. But, man, lightweight. I think it's hard to argue that that's not the toughest division in the sport right now. Yeah, real quick, before we get out of here, I got asked this. This is kind of an off the cup, but I want to mention I saw somebody, I saw a lot of people complaining that Armand is fighting again against Rufu.

like he's the number one contender, just give him the title shot, why is he fighting? I understand the logic behind that when that fight got announced because like when it was over a game, even when it was over a rematch, I was like, I don't really see why we need to do this again, but sure, why not? And it was Rufi. I was like, all right, well, that's fun. I mean, it's a different matchup. I've seen something different.

But it's like, you know, Armands ranked number two by the EOC and I think Rufi's like number 10. They're like, why does this make sense? Why is he fighting again? And my personal opinion, Matt, and I think you probably agree with me, Justin Gaichi has earned time off. Like that dude, like, going through what he went through at the White House card to go to that kind of war, like maybe the fight of the year and to beat Ily Teporia,

which was a huge, a huge upset. He's like, I want to take time off for the rest of the year. Okay, I really have no problem with that. Because it was June. It wasn't like he fought in, like, in February, and he's just going to sit out the rest of year. Like, it was June. That's midway through the year.

If I'm, like, Armand's already been out since, like, whatever it was, like, last October. What do you want him to sit out for a full year and a half just waiting? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't agree with Dana White on everything, much less most things. But when he says, like, I don't believe in guys just sitting around and waiting, I tend to agree. Because Armin is the clear-cut number one contender.

Absolutely. But what happens if, I don't know, Quill and Sal Kill and Salkhild, maybe they give Quill and Salkil, maybe they give him Patty. And he goes out there and just absolutely obliterates Patty Pimblit. Well, now people are going to be calling for him to get the title shot. Now, Armin, guarantee you they're going to call him. So, like, if you're Armin, why would you sit around? Like, it sucks that you're not getting a title shop, but, hey, that's the sport.

You know what I mean? Like, I hate when that happens, but it happens. Why would you just sit around and do nothing? Find another top guy? And honestly, like, he's going to be heavily favored to win. But, like, why not get paid, get active, and just remind people who you are? Yeah, I mean, that's a good argument for it, you know? And it just sucks, you know?

I think Armin's just been in kind of a crappy position for a long time now. I think he should have got a title shot a long time ago. I think that guys got title shots over him. They probably shouldn't have got title shots. At this point, like you said, with Justin taking probably a little bit more time off and, you know, just the situation he's in, he kind of doesn't really have much of a choice.

I mean, he's staying active, doing all these other side competition things, but that's not fighting. You know, he's got to go in there and get paid his worth and show that he's still the number one contender. For him, it's probably, you know, I mean, Rufie's a, hell of a fighter and he's he's getting better all the time so i don't think it's an easy matchup for

armin but it is the right matchup for him to win and prove that he's still the number one contender and i'm from the ufc's perspective like well ruffy wins you know now you have another great contender right you know and um yeah so you know i i get it and makes sense um it just sucks right it's about the best you can say like it just kind of sucks that arman has had to deal with all this you know, reminds me like the Tony Ferguson's back in the day, you know, on these long win streaks and just one thing after another happens coincidentally and you're not getting the title shot. And, you know, and that's why, you know, I just like to see guys get title shots when they do their title shots because so many things can happen.

And, you know, it's just been unfortunate for Armin. But he seems to be in good spirits about it. He keeps competing, keeps active. He's taking this fight, which is a risky fight. but you got to get props to him, man. The guy's a fucking warrior, and he's going out there putting on the line, making good money. So, you know, what else can you ask from the guy?

He's doing all the right things. And I'm not trying to knock him, but, I mean, the reality is, like, part of this is still being punished from the whole situation to happen two years ago at the Islam fight. Now, I'm not saying it's right, but, like, I think for that, like, year, year and a half after that, like, he was just in the dog house. And, listen, injuries happen, you know, you don't want guys going in there, compromise, things like that. but the reality is it happened on Fight Week.

You know, UFC spends all the money on marketing promotion, and that was going to be a really, really good fight. I was so looking forward to Islam and Armin. And then the day before the fight, he's falling out of the back injury. And I'm just like, what are we doing? Like, what are you doing that you're getting in your back injury, you know, two days before a fight or whatever? So I know that's part of the reason why he was just getting passed over

because, like, punishment for that. And to a certain extent, to a certain extent, I understand it. Because, you know, like, he didn't fall out two weeks out or a week out. He felt literally the day before the fight and they had to scramble to find somebody to fight Islam Ocacho. So I understand that part of it, but I do feel for him because you're like, okay, how much, like, how long are you going to punish this guy for, like, fucking up? Like, you know, like, he didn't, I mean, like, he didn't, I mean, you know, how many fights have changed and been disaster because of what happened to John Jones, what he's done? Do we just, you know, cast him out and say, you can never fight again? Like, no, they never do that, you know?

Like, so how long does this guy have to be punished? And it's like, if he wins this fight, and I think he will win this fight, and he doesn't get a title shot, dude, something's like seriously wrong. Yeah, I feel that. But, yeah, I mean, I've always wondered about that, you know, that week when he got injured. It's like, you know, you got to, he's probably not, I'm sure he's not faking the injury. I'd never say that. But, yeah, what exactly happened? And, you know, the UFC that was clearly, like, very pissed about it.

But, you know, if he, like, actually injured himself, like, wasn't doing something stupid or whatever and actually injured himself, it's like, you know, what kind of, you know, how do you, you don't really need to punish him for that, right? Like, you know, he's getting ready for a fight, cut and weight and, you know, something stupid happened. So, yeah, you know, I wouldn't ever know, you know, the full truth exactly what happened. But either way, I still feel for him, right? Like, you know, even that, you know, that situation. and then, you know, all the things has happened since. I mean, it's been, I mean, how many years has it been since he's really been the guy for a title? I mean, it's like two years, I think.

And, you know, where he's really been the guy that should be getting the title shot. And, you know, it just sucks for him. But, you know, that's the sport, man. That's what keeps the news flowing in the sport, man. There's always something crazy happening and it's always fun. Yeah, well, we'll see. I mean, like I said, that's coming up in September. That's not, you know, obviously the flightway title.

rematch and of course you got the you got Armin and Rufi so that's not a bad card in Los Angeles we'll find out hopefully like I said Armine wins and then it's straight into him and Gachie sometime early next year like it just book it and I know that's probably not what Gachie I don't know if that's really the fight Gachis is like running towards because Armin

is a tough matchup for anybody but yeah I mean like I said you know and I agree with you like Gajer should keep fighting and he'll have options but I think the number one option needs to be Armin Saruki I mean that guy can't only pass him over for so long before it gets ridiculous it's already kind of got ridiculous but you know i understand why they did gaichi and taporia because like you know gaecchi won the

interim title and i get all that i understand all that but at some point you got to stop like you you got to pass this guy over my whole thing was it should have been armin and then gaiji for the interim title and then yeah you know let those cards fall where they may 100% 100% it should have been that but you know it is what it is and you know we all led to a really cool moment to white house like i said watching i mean let's be honest watching gaiji beat ilia tepore was one of the most ridiculous upsets but also one of the craziest fights ever you're like is he going to do it is he actually going to pull this off and he did it man like that's just like what i mean how can you not like got to be how you got to be happy for justy gasey like that's just a ridiculous

thing to do but if it's armin i don't know if he gets through armin to begin with so yeah yeah yeah what else we got coming up late and soon uh well this was obviously this this event's the big one we obviously like two weeks from now we're We got Umar, the Rebecca Bad Off against Songadong. That's a pretty fun fight coming up in China. And then, like I said, moving into September, we got the flyweight title rematch with Van and Pantosia and Armin and Rufi. I think I saw the UFC schedule.

I think there's not an off weekend for the EFC between now and I want to say like Thanksgiving. Like every weekend, there's an event, so I lose track. What the fuck's going on? Nice. Yeah, Van Pantosia. I'm really interested to see that because I think Van has certainly performed above and beyond expectations rather when when he kind of went into the pantosia fight it was like yeah you know that

could be good you know i mean he's always looked good and but you know that division's always been a little you know you can you can kind of get a title shot in that division you know and um you know fans a very young kid so um i'm excited but now we know how good he is yeah i mean now we know he's a fucking savage he's a stud and um you know and what what's pantogra gonna look like coming back you know I mean, like I said, I've heard there's a lot of people talking about to worry about that arm, like it just never, you know, never heals the same, whatever. He's an older guy.

I think he's like 37 or something. Like, he's not a young guy. So, like, yeah, it's weird to say this. And I certainly absolutely do not mean any of will whatsoever towards Alessandra Pantosia. That injure is a freak thing. I hate seeing it happen. But I feel like we all kind of had a feeling like Pantosia was going to win that fight

the first time around. We're like, yeah, you know, Vans got the, but, you know, Pantos has been so dominant. Now we actually have questions. We're like, well, you know, we saw what he could do on the ground, and we saw him survive. And, man, he's a freaking nasty striker on the feet. Like, now you're kind of like, well, now I don't really know if it's a panting. And you obviously, Pantasia would come back from the injury.

So, yeah, it's like, before we were all kind of like, yeah, Pantosia is probably going to win. Like, we're going to, he's going to. Not this time. I feel like it's a lot closer fight and a lot more, you know, a lot more injury. So I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be fun. Like I said, that Van Tatsuio Tire, Fyro, I'm really sure it was wild. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's probably the fight I'm most excited for it is coming up. Yeah. And I know October, we've heard the rumors. It looks like they're probably going to... I've heard rumors are going to do a double title fight in October. It's going to be Volkinovsky.

Excuse me. Volcanov and Mozar and Umar, or not Omar. Marab and Yantt running it back. That's what I've heard. It's not done deal, but that's what I've heard. That's a... That's exciting right there. That's a good been, yeah.

Mosar finally getting his title. He was in, he was fucking in... Another one of those guys, yeah, should have been in there a long time ago. Yeah. And boy, Marab Yon, I mean, what a fascinating matchup that is. Those guys, I could probably watch them fight a hundred times. I think it's just a fascinating matchup. Yeah, it's going to be interesting.

And like I said, with Marab actually having time off and like it, which never happens, he'll be and Marab will be here in Ohio in a couple weeks of doing the wrestling match and rematch with Henry Sehudo. Yeah, they're wrestling in RAF up there. So it should be kind of fun with that. But, yeah, like I said, about time, it was the one that made the most sense, and I'm glad they're doing it. But, yeah, I'm fascinated by that one as well because the way Jan won the last one, I was just like, damn, like, he just really took it to Marab. Never really seen that before.

Well, Marab's had the time off, and now there's no more, you know, like his schedule is too busy or whatever. He's been had the time off. That's a fascinating matchup. Just like Volcanovsky and Mosa, that's a fascinating matchup, too. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But, but, boy, Marab Yon, yeah. That one's extra fascinating. And, you know, just the dichotomy of the two fights, right?

The way that Marab dominated him so much the first time and then the way Yon dominated him so much the second time. And it's like, who's going to adjust? And, you know, there's so many little chess battles in each of those fights. And, yeah, that one's really fascinating to watch. I might even have to go by it. It's very rare. I go back and watch fights, but I might go back and break down those two.

Yeah, that would be a good one. And like I said, I think I want to say that's Abu Dhabi, so there'll be an earlier card too. That'll be like a daytime car, which I might go. It's always fun. So, yeah, so we'll see. But, yeah, so this weekend, UFC 330 this weekend from Philadelphia. I don't know.

Karen, did you go or find any of the Philly cards before? I don't think so. It's, I've been to, this is the first Philly card I've missed. I've been to all the other Philly cards. It's a great city, man. I love Philadelphia. It's a great town. Fans are passionately.

I was there that one of those was the Anderson Silva Forrest Griffin fight. It was like watching the Matrix with fucking Anderson ducking and dodging punches and just hitting force and forced just like fuck it it, I'm done when he waved it off

remember that one but like Philly's a great town for fights and also I think Rashad Evans Tito Ortiz was there

so it's a great great fight town I remember we were we were staying at our hotel we were walking back getting food

one night and we looked around we realized where we are there was like the church of Scientology had a place right there

and like they came they came rushing out trying to talk to us and we're not no no we're not here for that we were just walking like chitj

And we're like, we're just stopped to chat and looked up and there's the church of Scientology. It took about two cents to run out and start trying to sell us on it. I was like, no, we're not here for that. I promise you that. Yeah, these people are silly, man. They got a good sales pitch. So I did, I actually went inside the one in Sunset Boulevard. I was hanging out with this girl there and she's just like, let's go in there.

I was like, okay. And then in about five minutes, I was like, dude, these guys, like, maybe I should. of joy. Good salesman. Good salesman. They're good salesmen, man. They know what they're doing. Yeah.

All right. I just slap myself in the face and be like, get the fuck out of here. What are you doing right now? Yeah, if you were to came back and be like, dude, I'm joining the church of Scientology. I'll be like, hold on, hold on. We got to have a long talk here, man. Yeah, off the podcast. Get out of here.

We're having a very long talk right now. All right. So we obviously got the event coming up on Saturdays from Philadelphia. We'll have lots of more talk about with that. Obviously, the fallout from that event. Maybe there'll be some other really cool fights that happened that we just don't see coming. We'll see. But obviously, you know, the schedule didn't slow down, so we'll know that for sure.

And like I said, maybe by the next week or two, we'll hear more about free agency signings, more fights getting announced. We'll talk about that. Matt, people want to check out what you got going on outside of the podcast. Where can they go? Where can they find you? The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook at I'm Immortal Instagram and Twitter and The Immortal Podcast now, too. The Immortal Podcast.com. There you go.

And as always, we appreciate everyone tuning in the show. Make sure to check us out on all your favorite podcast. podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of The Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.