MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Frankie Edgar Talks Retirement Fight at UFC 281; Beneil Dariush Believes He's the Most Avoided Man at Lightweight

Episode Date: October 18, 2022

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, former UFC lightweight champion Frankie Edgar and UFC 280 competitor Beneil Dariush join the show. Following news that his next fight at UFC 281 would be the last of his career, Edgar details why he decided now was the best time to retire from competition after a storied career. Edgar explains what made him believe it was time to hang up the gloves while he was still a relevant contender in the bantamweight division. The New Jersey native will also address concerns over his long term health as well as the fights that will help define his career after retirement. Also on the show, Dariush discusses his upcoming fight against Mateusz Gamrot at UFC 280 and if there was any disappointment that he didn’t get a higher ranked opponent like Dustin Poirier or Michael Chandler. In fact, Dariush admits he may just be the most avoided man in the entire lightweight division with the difficulty he’s had with top-ranked opponents rarely calling his name when it comes time to book a fight. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to another edition of the Fighter versus the writer.

I'm your host, as always, Damon Martin. And this week we are just days away from UFC 280, one of the biggest cards of the year. Stacked. Stack doesn't even really begin to define this card. It is ridiculous. It's an embarrassment of riches. The main card is off the chains. Main event, Charles Olivaira, Islam Makachev,

excuse me, Al J. Stirling, taken on T.J. Dillishaw, Piotr, taken on Sean O'Malley. You got Matouche Gamrod against Bill Niel Darius. You've got Bilal Muhammad against Sean Brady. You got Caitlin Chukagan against Mano Fior. If I'm pronouncing her last name correctly, I usually butcher it. Yeah, it's just an incredible. cards start to finish. Of course, we missed our preview show. We actually had our preview show

a couple weeks ago with the great Anthony Smith coming on and breaking down the entire card with me talking about, you know, what we see lying ahead. If you miss that show, go back two weeks, catch the fighter versus the writer episode myself and Anthony Smith debating UFC 280 ahead of time. Want to get that one in early because, of course, everyone's going to be doing preview shows this week, so we got it in early. With that being said, we do have two great interviews coming up today. The first one coming up is going to be, as far as I understand it, the first interview with him since the news broke about his next fight, which is UFC legend, former lightweight

champion Frankie Edgar, who announced recently that he is going to be retiring after his next fight at UFC 281 in November. It takes on Chris Gutierrez on that card. I'm going to talk to Frankie about his decision to retire, what led to that decision, why now. Is there a chance this really is? Is there a chance this is not really the? the last one, or is this really it?

So we're going to talk about all that with Frankie Eggers in just a few moments. I'm also going to play an interview a little later with Benil Daryush as he gets ready to take on Matush Gamrod in a pivotal lightweight fight. Now, truth be told, and I'll mention this again before the interview plays, this was recorded a couple weeks ago before the news came out that Alexander Volcanowski is now saying that he is going to be the potential replacement for the main event, if anything should happened to Makachev or Olivaara. Now, again, that just came out within a matter of days ago.

So this interview was conducted prior to that because, of course, travel and guys getting into Abu Dhabi and things like that. So I talked to Beny a little ahead of that. But we still talk a lot about the title picture where, you know, he kind of has become the odd man out a little bit at lightweight, even though he's on an incredible wind streak, a ton of finishes. And just because that injury back in February where he couldn't fight Makachev, now he's suddenly kind of become, you know, the odd man out of lightweight, where people are

talking about Volcanozki getting the next shot. People are talking about the winner of Porre and Chandler getting the next shot, and somehow Benil's gotten lost in the mix. So we're going to talk to him about that. And also preview this fight, of course, with Matouge Gamrod. But first things first, let's talk to a man who will, without a doubt one day, go into the UFC Hall of Fame. We talk about that as well.

But I believe he is a surefire UFC Hall of Fame where he is a former lightweight champion, a former featherweight title contender. And now he's stepping into the fray one last time to take on Chris Gutier. at UFC 281 in what will be his final fight. Let's talk to Frankie Edgar. The word legend gets thrown around in this sport a lot, but one guy that I know defines that word better than almost anybody else in this sport. He is a former UFC lightweight champion,

and he is a future UFC Hall of Famer. He will make his return to action in November and Madison Square Garden. I am always happy to speak to the great Frankie Edgar. Frankie, how are you? I'm good, Damon. definitely a pleasure to be talking to here. Always good to be talking. I know fights coming,

looming when I'm talking to you. Yeah, I love it. I love it. We go back a long ways, Frankie, and when this one got announced, of course,

came along with the news, this is going to be the last one. The last run for the answer. Is that it? Let's just start right off the bat. Is this really the final fight? Yeah, I hate saying it,

but yeah, I got to say it. I always thought I was going to be a guy and then would never say I'm retorting. But if I don't say it, I'll never get out of there. And I think now's the time. You know, I need to worry about what I'm doing next. So I need to kind of move past this point.

I got to be honest. I was one of those guys who said you never would retire. Like, you know, maybe you just stop fighting, you know what I mean? You just kind of do your own thing. But I was one of those guys who say, I'll never hear the word retirement uttered by Frankie Eager. But I do know talking to some guys and girls who kind of define a fight ahead of time saying this is my retirement fight, they tell me it's like, that's the way to make them stick to it,

right? Like that's the way to make them like, you know, go in. Because when you come out of the fight, everything goes well, you beat Chris Gutierrez, you're feeling great, you're on top of the world. You know, you're like, ah, one more, two more. So is that part of it, like kind of defining it ahead of time saying, okay, I got to put a, I got to put an end date here? Yeah, it helps it.

You know, it definitely helps that process. You know, I'm not one to kind of say stuff and, you know, renege on it. So I said it. I'm going to, you know, follow through. It sucks. Like I said, I definitely don't want it to be, but, you know, all good things come to an end. So let me ask the question, why? Like, why now?

What was it about now that made you decide that this was the time to walk away? I mean, again, you've got an incredible family, your wife, your kids. You've always had an incredible support system around you, and I'm sure they're on your side no matter what. But what was, like, was there one deciding factor? Was there 10 deciding? Like, what was it about this moment? You said, you know what, it's time? I mean, there's a lot of things, I would think.

you know, kind of the way my fights have been going as of late, maybe led to that as well. You know, my body, I am getting older. I feel great. You know, I mean, you know, in camp, you know, I'm such a strong mind of person that I always have great camps. I always feel good. But, you know, the body takes its toll throughout the years. And, you know, I just want to move on and see what's next.

You know, I know I can't, the thing is, I know you can't, I know I can't fight forever. I can definitely string it on a couple more years probably, but I know I'll never move. on to what's the next chapter in my life. And I think now I'm kind of, I'm being selfish, you know, trying to still chase this when, you know, I got a family and kids that want to, you know, have goals of their own. And, you know, they want me around and, you know, probably want me to be able to speak, you know, good and have my health of wits about me. So I just think now is probably probably the best time. Was there any element of, you know, I hear this a lot, you know, you want to, you want to retire from the sport. You don't want to

sport to retire you. Now, I know you had a couple tough losses, but the guys you lost to, I mean, Cheetah Vera and top five guy in the world, Corey Sanhagan, top five guy in the world, you have a winner of Pedro Munoz, who is the top 10 guy in the world. So it's not like you're losing a bunch of fights, you're losing no-name bums. That's just not the case. The guys you lost to are literally two of the best guys in the world right now. But was there a part of that saying, you know, kind of picking your own time and not being one of those guys, Unfortunately, Frankie and you and I have both seen it kind of the horror stories of the sport, guys that just don't know when to quit, guys that do stick around too long and they're losing

fights and you're kind of feeling bad for them at the end, you know what I mean? No, for sure. And yeah, I don't want to be that guy. It's not fair to put my family through that either, you know, and, or just, you know, my pride doesn't want to deal with that either, to be honest with you. And, you know, I feel like I was. I got there, I feel like I still can hang with the best in the world, you know. but you know I think in the past maybe I would have won those fights you know and now I'm not

winning them fights I don't know if that's just because the way time goes or just guys getting better you know just the way that's the breaks of this game and you know now's the time and we'll get one more and in New York you know right at my backyard a lot of history there I think it's a good send off yeah was it important for that element you know doing it in Madison Square Garden I know when they had to win Madison Square Garden a few years ago to Jeremy Stevens' fight, you, you wanted on that card, man. You really wanted on that card. I remember talking to you before it got booked, after it got booked, and after the fight,

you wanted that fight so badly to get on there. Was that a big part of this, the timing of this saying, okay, you might have had the retirement fight on your mind, but doing it in Madison Square Garden really does make it special. Yeah, I think everything just lined up perfectly. You know, I started getting the edge in the summer. I knew they're coming to New York, and I just found out, oh, they're coming to New York in November. I know they usually do. Yeah, I said, all right, if I'm going to, if I, you know, I felt I wanted to do one more.

You know, I had had a couple surgeries last year. You know, I had a couple of fights and a couple of surgeries. So, you know, I felt like I, you know, got my body kind of, you know, in a good place, ready to kind of, you know, attack training. Started getting after the summer, the ball started rolling. And November 19th came up and I'm, our 12th, rather. And I said, yeah, let's make this happen. Yeah.

I know that you've always maintained a really good relationship with the UFC with Dana White. with the matchmakers and things like that. But when this fight gets made and, you know, you're telling them, like, this is the last one, what is the reaction? Because I imagine it's probably similar to me where I'm like, I just never, like, not to say you'd stop fighting, but I was the guy who was like, I don't think you'll ever use the word retirement. Like, I can just see Frankie like, oh, man, it's been two years since Frankie fought.

And you're like, yeah, you know, maybe I'll fight again, maybe I won't. Because Joe Lozahn says that to me. He's like, oh, maybe I'll fight again, maybe I won't. He didn't want to use the word retirement. What was the reaction from the UFC, if you talked to anyone, like when the fight got made or or Dane or anybody? Because I imagine they probably had a similar reaction to me. Like, really?

Frankie's actually doing this? Yeah, I never spoke to anybody direct about, you know, this being my retirement fight or anything. I'm sure when I see him, I'll talk to them. You know, Ali pretty much, you know, got all the shit, this situated. But, you know, I would imagine as promoters, Dana's been in this game for a long time, they probably don't believe anybody when they stay in retirement anyway.

Yeah. Well, let me ask that question, Frankie, because, listen, we have a joke. I will say it's a joke, but it's like a running kind of theme. when someone retires, we actually have a hashtag on Twitter, you know, hashtag MMA retire, because guys, you know, retire six months later they book a fight, a year later they book a fight. You know, sometimes it doesn't even last that long. Now, I think you're in a different situation because you are a legend. You've already accomplished so much.

Your legacy is set. It's cemented. Everything you've done in your career. You don't need to do anything else to prove what you've done in your career. But obviously, you do have a wife. You do have kids. It's important for you to stick to this decision now for them, as much as yourself when you say this is the last one.

Yeah, I think so. You know, like I said, it'd be selfish. I keep, you know, chasing this person in these dreams. And not that I'm, you know, not an absent, you know, man absent that much. It's kind of a good career to have to raise a family. You know, you're around when you want to be. But yeah, I just think it's time that to dive, you know, most by attention into what's next. But, you know, I'm not going to say, I'll never say die.

But it would have to be a very, really, you know, a really good situation. for me to come back. Yeah. So now that being said, Chris Gutierrez, it's a really fun fight. He's obviously in a good win streak. I think undefeated in his last seven, if I'm not mistaken, you know, solid guy. Now, this is not to take a knock at him by any stretch of imagination, but when I hear about Frankie Edgar retiring, my first thought is like, man, I would love to see you go out against another legend. Like Dominic Cruz was the one I wanted. Now, of course, Dominic unfortunately suffered a knockout of his own fairly recently. You know, I think it was August, so I doubt he'd want to come back that soon. And November is the date you wanted.

Was it more about the timing of everything being in Madison Square Garden being in November than it was about the opponent? Because, again, this is not a knock on Chris Gutierrez. I'm just thinking, like, selfishly, like Frankie and Dominic would be like, you know, the legend fight, you know, to go out on. But, again, was it just more important about getting this date in this place than it was the opponent? No, you know, I pretty much, I think would have, I would have waited for Dominic. But from what I got is that I think he might have to get a surgery or something. So, you know, after that last fight, he's going to be take a real, you know, it might. take a while to come back. So I don't want to wait too, too long. And, you know, November,

it just seemed right. So, uh, well, as far as the opponent, I, I stayed out of it. I told I'll lead and, uh, and Mark, you know, guys figure it out an opponent. And that's it because I'm not, I'm not really wanted to pick somebody. Yeah. Does that just kind of fall in line with who you've always been as a fighter? Because even when you were champion, you didn't care who your opponent was going to be. When you beat BJ Penn, they said, well, you got a run back right away. You didn't, you didn't, you didn't hesitate to do it. You know, Gray Maynard, Benson. And any time there's been an obstacle and they threw in your way, you just kind of like shrug your shoulders and let's get to work.

Is it kind of the same thing here? Like this is the perfect way for Frankie Edgar to go out because it doesn't really matter about the opponent because you've never really cared about the opponents. Yeah, exactly, you know, especially for this one, you know. I guess the opponent only matters when you're trying to be, you know, you're trying to win a title. The only opponent matters is who has the belt, you know?

And, you know, if a fight can get you there, of course, you want certain matchups. But, you know, in this part, my stage. my career. I just wanted to get in there one more time, put on the show, you know, leave it all out there and, uh, and, you know, hopefully walk away with what would have win. Yeah. I know you've never been like a super reflective guy, Frankie. You don't sit around and look at the record books and look at your Wikipedia page and like, you know, admire what you've done. But, and I know you've answered some variation of this question throughout your career because, again, we're always

astonished to the great, amazing things you've done. But I was just, look, again, I don't always go to sit there and study your resume before we talk, because we talk pretty often. So I know, your resume, but I just decided to look at it before here, and I was like, the fact that the killers list of guys you've gone through in your career, both in three different divisions, lightweight, you know, featherweight and bant weight, I don't know that there's anyone that has ever done that in terms of multiple weight classes, multiple title fights, becoming a champion. Again, when you kind of wrap a bow on everything at the end of the day after November 12th, like, is that one of things you're always going to hold your head highest about the fact

that you did take on the absolute toughest challenges, and you did it across three? three weight classes. Frank, you didn't just fight anybody at three different weight class. You fought the best guys of the world

in three different weight classes. No, absolutely. That's something I always wanted to say, you know, when I look back of my career,

they're like, damn, this guy fought everybody. And I never, you know, getting into the sport, I didn't plan to fight amongst three different weight across three different weight classes. But,

you know, just the nature of the game. And, you know, obviously when I first got in, 55 was the only weight class I could have fought it. So that's kind of, I was kind of,

you know, ended up there by the, fault. But, you know, I mean, that's just a true martial artist, you know. I think this sport was, was, you know, really put on the map by Hoyho's Gracie coming in there, a little guy beating bigger guys and, you know, being versatile and be able to fight and win it in three different way class. I think kind of kind of is a little throwback to that. It's wild to think, like when you stand next to some of the guys you fought, like even like Pedro Muño's Corey Sanhagan, some of the other guys you fought a band's way. Like even in those situations, Frankie, you've still

been the smaller guy. You've still been the shorter smaller guy. Featherweight was the same thing. I think back to Lightway, like when you look at Lightweights, you know, the guys who are fighting a lightweight, like, it's so crazy that you were never, you were never the biggest guy, lightweight even, you know, in your biggest heyday of being champion, you were never the biggest guy, but you always

found a way to win. And again, I know you're never going to sit there and pat yourself on the back. When you look back at all the things you did in your career, is becoming lightweight champion got to be the top of that list only because, like, it's so, when we think about, like, you know, the, the, the size, listen, size matters in the sport.

It does. There's a reason weight cutting exists in MMA is because some guys don't want to take that chance of face the guys who are bigger, stronger, faster, whatever. You did it at lightweight. That was never your weight class, Frankie. Let's be honest. That was never truly your weight class. No, not at all.

Yeah, that's definitely, that's the feather in the cap. I mean, I win the title. Whenever you could, that's my been my goal. Everything I got into sports, you know, when I was a wrestler, I wanted to, you know, win a state title, then a national title. And I've always came close second, Missful American, you know, in triple overtime. And then finally, I finally, you know, reached my goal. And that was just, that was just amazing, you know, that feeling.

I'll never, I'll never forget it. You know, one of the best things that happened to me in my sports career for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Now, we talked a lot about the past. We talked a lot about the present. Let me ask you about the future, Frankie. You know, you're a guy who's always very busy. Again, you got a family.

I'm sure they're looking forward to even more dad time. know, more husband times, things like that. But, you know, I know your focus, of course, November 12th right now, Chris Gutierrez. But what is the future for Frankie Yeager? When you look at all the things you've done, you've been a wrestling coach, you've been a MMA coach, you've been a mentor, you've done a lot of other things. What is the future for you when you look at, when you look at it like December 2020 or January 2020, what is Frankie Eager doing?

You know, I have a, I think I have a bunch of options that I got to really, you know, hammer down what I want to do. but I'll always be involved in the sport of MMA, you know, obviously, whether their own open a gym or help as a coach or something like that. You know, I may even like to help on the business side of this game. I have a lot of experience to share. I've been through it all, you know, maybe kind of help Ali in that world as well. And, you know, I don't know.

We'll see. I'm open to a lot of things. I did a movie. I actually did a movie. I'm viewing the cast and crew viewing next week. So who knows what that can lead to. Tell me about this movie. What can you tell?

I know you may not be able to give way too many secrets. Tell me about the movie experience. It was awesome. It was a real small budget. You know, I have a podcast called Champ and a Tramp and one of the guests I have on, Kevin Interdonato. He's, you know, an actor, a local actor, and he asked me to be in this movie. And it's called The Bastard Sons.

You know, pretty good flick, you know, independent film. But we're pitching it to. to festivals, from what I understand. I don't really know much, you know, man. I was just jumped in there for a week or two. But, you know, really cool experience. And, you know, who knows if that could lead some in the future. Yeah.

You mentioned opening a gym. Now, I know a lot of fighters do that. But, you know, one thing I know about you, Frankie, because I've talked to guys about this over the years when I talked to Marlon Marius, or I talked to, you know, a lot of the guys who have trained with you over the years. And they talk about what a great coach and mentor you've been. And one thing is Matt Brown, who opened his gym here in Colorado. a couple years ago, said that, like, when it's finally done for him, he's told me this numerous

times, he said, when I'm done fighting, I know I'm going to be a better coach than I ever was a fighter. Like, I know that's my, my future being a coach, I'm going to be a better coach than it was a fighter and parting that knowledge on the next generation of fighters. Is there any party that feels like that is, that could be a big future for you coaching? Because I knew you've kind of quietly, always been a coach. You know, you've quietly helped a lot of guys and they always pay you credit, but I know, I know you're never the guy to stand in the spotlight and, you know, grab the mic and say, you know, I got you there. You're not that guy. But is there any party that feels like coaching in some capacity

will be a part of your future to matter what? Yeah, absolutely. You know, in wrestling, you know, as soon as I started wrestling, I pretty much started coaching, you know, and I was always helping out, you know, either my teammates or the younger kids. And then once I graduated college, I was coaching the high school level and I coached at the college level. And then I got into fighting. And, of course, I'm always helping any teammate that needs help.

So coach is just ingrained in me. And, you know, I coach my kids in wrestling. My son has aspirations to maybe get into MMA. So who knows if I'll be coached him in the future. But I'm not going to get too far from the max, that's for sure. Yeah. What about that? Like, I know there's, you know, there are, you know, we've seen second and sometimes even third generation fighters in the sport,

even though our sport isn't that old. How do you feel about one of your kids doing MMA? Because it's a weird one, right? Like, I know football, I've talked to football players and they say, I don't want my kids doing football. I know how tough it is. I know how banged up your body can get things like that. How is it for you? Like when you had that conversation, like, is that something you welcome?

Or do you like sit them down and say, okay, are you really, really wanting this? Like, how do you approach, like, the fact that maybe you're one of your kids want to follow in dad's footsteps? Yeah, well, my middle guy is the one that was only 12. So we got time. So I kind of just treated like, hey, you know, we'll hit pads. You know, he knows a little bit of jihitsu. I said, well, let's just focus on wrestling. He's really into wrestling.

So I said, well, focus on wrestling, try to get, you know, into a good school for wrestling. and then, you know, MMA, we could always do on the side, do a little bit here, and then focus on it when we're set it done with school. I know you got a good school out there. I know you're a Rutgers guy. I know there's lots of good schools. Listen, send them to Ohio State. We've got a great wrestling program out here, Frankie.

I'm just saying. Oh, I know that. I know that. Hey, we're open to all options. You mentioned earlier, you know, the reality of this sport, you know, like kids. The reality of the sport is, it is a brutal sport, Frankie. I mean, it is. There's just no way to deny that.

And it goes beyond the knockouts. It just goes to. to like the just general, you know, crazy, wild damage you put on your body, not only in fights, but in training. I mean, I hear that a million times over guys tell me, you, I take far more damage in training, just, you know, put my body through the ringer before I even step into the cage. But you have been in there. Like, was that, like, you talked about earlier, like, you know, you wanted to be able to,

like, speak clearly. And I know you kind of say it was small on your face, but it's real, right? Because unfortunately, we know the other side of the sport, the reality of boxing and things like that. Like, was there any small part of that in the back of your head saying, I just, you know, at some point, you got to put a stop to that. because there is a line of no return when it comes to damage in combat sports. Yeah, no, it's definitely in the back of your mind.

You can't help but hear, you know, the talks of it in sports, and especially in our sport, but across all sports. And yeah, you know, it's not like I noticed anything or I'm thinking like, oh, man, I'm forgetful or I'm slipping my words, but I don't know if that's how it works. Does it happen one day you just wake up and you're messed up or does it happen over gradually? Who knows? So I just figure sometimes, you know, I'm going to be 41, you know, next week. And I feel like I'm somewhat coherent.

Maybe not the most. But I guess good enough for now. So maybe leave well enough alone. Yeah. Now, with that being said, Frankie, and I know, you know, you're going to end up answering a lot of these questions a thousand times over. And I hate to be the guy to ask you maybe part one of, you know, all these questions. But I mentioned the top of the show. I said, future UFC Hall of Fame.

Now, I think we all know that. I don't think there's any question about that. some guys love it they say yeah i want that i i i appreciate that i look for the other guy say you know it doesn't really matter if they do it they do it whatever um do you does it matter to you like long run i'm not saying it has to be tomorrow but you know when when your career is done like would getting into the ufc hall of fame means something to you i think so i mean you know i i put a lot into this um you know i care in every fight i did i i i put my all into i you know whether it was a training or the fight you know you watch any of my fights you know

I'm willing to, you know, give it my all to get the victory. And, you know, to get recognized for that, I think, yeah, you're going to record books. I think, yeah, that's definitely something that I look forward to. You know, why otherwise, why I care so much about being? Yeah. You know, again, you're going to answer some variation of this question a thousand times over, because when you call it your retirement,

fight, everyone wants to look back and talk about the past and things like that. again you're not that guy frank as i said you're not the guy who's sitting pouring over your Wikipedia page saying oh man this and this and this I know you're not that guy but uh when you look back like I'm not going to ask you what your favorite fight is that's an unfair question because every fight you're one is probably your favorite fight you ever do you know they're all great but what's the what's the fight most people want to say I imagine I know the answer of the fight most people want to talk to you about I imagine it's probably one of the two gray Maynard fights because those are so insane I was at those fights and like you know well

Jose Aldo, of course, a guy I'm sure you, I know, you know very well, admire, just retired. When he retired, my first thought was, man, I'm so lucky I got to be at a lot of Jose Aldo fights. I got to interview him backstage and press conferences, things like that. I felt so lucky that I was there. You know, I've been in a lot of your fights, Frankie. I've interviewed you before and after, you know, been in there, you know, as media, and I was there for both the Grey Maynard fights.

I was there for the BJ Penn rematch. I was there for a lot of your biggest moments. Can I imagine the Grey Maynard fights? What's the fight most people, like, when they talk to you or when you have fans or whatever. Are those the ones people mostly talk to you about? Or is there another one I missed that people come up and say, oh man, Frankie, that fight. No, definitely the, the manner fights. Always are top of the list, you know, whether on Twitter or just, you know, just out and about.

They definitely talk about those. I mean, you know, I took a shalack and in the beginning of the ball to fight. So, yeah, they were definitely talked about the balls. Those are two of the greatest fights in history. I mean, let's be honest. Again, I know you're not going to say that. Maybe you will. but those are two of the greatest fights in mixed martial arts history we've never seen will

heart determination like that and i don't know frankie if we'll ever see it again because again i watched the first one i was there for the second one i still don't know how you did it uh all these years later do you take pride in that like when i say that and say those are two of the greatest fights in the history of this sport like those are the kind of things the legacy you built where that's always going to be remembered absolutely i mean you know someone like yourself that's been in this game and, you know, is a notable in the, you know, journalism world of MMA to say that, hell yeah, that that's awesome for me. That's how you get remembered, right?

You know, and, you know, I've been, like, you know, it's going to be wild to be done because I've been, I started wrestling when I was 13, and I've been chasing glory ever since then, so, you know, stuff like for four reasons like that. Now, I know, Frankie, you mentioned you've been wrestling competing since you were 13, which also means you've been weight cutting since you were 13 in some form or fashion. Now we talked about when you were a lightweight. You were never the biggest guy so you were not the guy who was cutting, you know, 25 pounds to get down to 155. But you still cut weight.

You still have to keep your body, you know, in shape to make 155 pounds, 145, now 135. I know your coach, Mark Henry very well. He has an incredible pizza shop in New Jersey. I've been to New Jersey many, many times. There's a lot of good restaurants, a lot of good eating out there in New Jersey. Be honest, Frankie. When the fight is done on November 12th, Do you get your hand raised?

And they say, you know, you hear Bruce Buffer, announced you as a winner one last time, you officially called a career. Are we talking like welterweight Frankie Edgar, middleweight Frankie Edgar? Like, be honest, are you finally having to put weight cutting behind you and just enjoy some pizza and some pasta for once.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to definitely enjoy it. For sure, you know, I don't know if I'll ever get too big. I'm not too big of a person, but I'll definitely try my best. It'll be nice to enjoy some guilt-free food, right? Because I know, like, a lot of times when you're eating, you're probably like, oh, man, I got to hit that workout tomorrow morning to work this pasta off.

You can actually have a pasta, you can actually have a pasta dinner without worrying about working it off in the morning. Exactly, exactly. I'll be hitting a Pino's pizza, that's for sure. I love it. I love it. Last thing I'll ask you about, Frankie, you know, when you go into, like, there's going to be so much attention about the retirement. And, again, that's part of it. And as we said, part of the reason you do that is kind of put yourself in a position where you do it, right?

Like, you're kind of telling yourself, I have to call this the last one. How do you stay focused just on the fight, though? Because you know, at the end of the day, Chris Gutierrez is coming to take your head off. You know, he's not coming in here to walk to lay down to Frankie Edgar. You know, he's not coming in to just, like, give you a win. So you go out on a win in your career. You know that. But you're going to ask, here's me, day one.

There's going to be 14 million other interviews. There's going to be 14 million other podcasts. There's going to be, you know, all this stuff. You're going to have tribute videos and all this kind of craziness. How do you drown all that out and just remember at the end of the day, This is a fight. This guy's coming to take your head off. He doesn't care that at your retirement fight.

He's coming to beat Frankie Eger because, let's be honest, beating Frankie Eager means something. This is Chris Gutierrez's chance to move into that top 10 in the world. So to actually make a big statement in the Bantaway division by beating a legend. So how do you drown out all that other noise knowing that that's going to come at you every single day between now and November 12th? I mean, to me it's easy, you know. it's my last fight my first fight my second my 15th I want to win and that's what that's what drives me

that's what makes me get up and push so hard in the gym today at 41 years old you know what I mean and uh you know I there's always some kind of noise going on every fight every fight and there's always some obstacle you're going to deal with differently every fight this is just another one of those things, but my mind is laser focused on getting a win. And that'll never change. Yeah. Now, you know, when you retire, you know, a lot of the other stuff you have to do to promote your fights like this, interviews.

A lot of that goes away because now you're not fighting regularly. People kind of leave you alone. I'm warning you ahead of time because we go back many, many years, Frankie. I can't remember the first time. I think I was at your first UFC fight when we first met. So it's going back away. I'm just letting you know ahead of time you're not getting rid of me. So you can retire, you can walk away, you can say I'm done fighting, you're still going to come to

me, a year and a half from now, two years from now, I'm still going to be calling you for interviews. I don't care if you're retired or not, Frankie. I'll be looking forward to it. I'll be looking forward. You're like, I retired, this guy still won't stop calling me. Jeez, man, what do I got to do? Yeah, no, hopefully we'll have some good stuff to talk about. Yeah.

Last question. I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyways. Are we going to get a little notorious BIG on the first? November 12th one last time? The most shady, Frankie baby. You know it. You cannot walk out in Madison Square Garden without that song. You know that.

People would lose their minds if you didn't walk out to that song. It's got to be. It's been my walkout song since 2009, so we're rocking out with it. I love it. Well, Frankie, it is always a pleasure. It is always an honor to speak to you. I appreciate you doing this. Of course, have a great training camp leading up to the fight.

I cannot wait to see you back in action. November 12th and I know you're going to be busy afterwards but you know I sure get a million requests but you got to promise you to come back and see me after the fight yeah 100% man I will definitely come back and talk to you it'll be my absolute pleasure brother frankie it is always a pleasure my friend we'll talk soon okay my man damon be good brother bye bye bye boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes oh what sounds like ojo time play ojo great idea feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements.

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That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. A big thank you, of course, to Frankie Edgar. It is always a pleasure to catch up with him, but of course getting to speak to him about this final fight coming up in November as he prepares to compete for the last time ever in his career, in his story career.

He takes on Chris Gutierrez at UFC 281 in Madison Square Garden on November 12th, if I'm getting that date, correct? So, yeah, always great to catch up with Frankie. The second interview today on Fighter versus the Rider is going to be a chat with Benil Darius, who takes on Matush Gammarad in a pivotal fight at lightweight in the division.

Of course, you know, Benil is potentially one win away from a title shot. He was supposed to be one win away from a title shot when he got matched up with Islam Makachev back in February. Unfortunately, he had an injury. Couldn't fight. It's been now over a year since Benil has fought. And now he's scheduled to fight Matush Gamrod,

a guy on the rise, American top team fighter, former two-division KSW champion. Incredibly good guy coming out of a win of his owner against Armand Saruki and one of the best fights of 2022. Matush is looking to make a big statement at UFC 280, while Benile is looking to remind the world just how good he really is. Now, again, as I mentioned to the top of the show, this interview was recorded prior to the news that Alexander Volcanowski

is apparently going to serve as the backup to the main event. Of course, I talked to Benil about that because we broke the news from this interview, Benil saying he was expecting to be the backup because he's already fighting on the card and he was planning on weighing it at 155 pounds just in case something happened. Now, in reality, neither story really may matter. I mean, as long as Mokachev and Olivaa show up and make weight,

we're not really going to have to discuss anything else about this whole backup fighter situation. But it is interesting that they would bring over Volcanowski to weigh in for the potential that he would step in. Now, maybe that's because Volcanovsky is a champion, and if the worst thing in the world happens and we lose Machachev-Rola Vera, it's still a big fight because you have a chance to see a featherweight champion go up and become a two-division champion on less than a week's notice.

And you don't lose a fight because if B'Neil gets the fight, then of course you lose his fight with Matush Gameron. At the same time, it's a little bit of a bummer because, listen, I make no bones about it. I like Binal very, Darius, very much. I've had him on the show many times. We've had them on to break down cards with us and preview cards. and things like that. But it always kind of breaks your heart when a guy is that talented and he just does not

get the fanfare because he's just not the guy who's going to go out there and say crazy things to get people talking about him. He goes out there and puts in his work, gets wins, gets highlight real wins. But he just doesn't have that kind of personality where he's going to go out there and bang the drum and say craziness on a microphone to get people to pay attention to him. I think the last time he won when he picked up a win, he got on the microphone and said he wanted his new Tesla. I mean, that's just who this guy is.

And listen, I appreciate his, you know, I appreciate his, how genuine he is, that he's not going to suddenly become some crazy wild trash talker simply because that's how he's going to end up getting fights, because that's just not who he is, you know. And so I appreciate his genuine dude. The downside is, of course, is now, you know, he kind of becomes an afterthought a little bit in the race, even though he shouldn't be. I mean, if he goes out there and beats Matush Damrock, and that's an eight-fight win streak for him, he absolutely.

positively should be getting the next title shot against either Islam Makachev or Charles Levera. But we all know that's probably not going to happen because we got the Volcanovsky factor. Now, Alexander Volkinovsky's got his own situation going on right now where he is the featherweight champion. He's made it clear he wants to go up to 155 pounds and battle for the title. And I don't really have a problem with him going up and getting an immediate title shot as long as it doesn't negate somebody getting a shot at featherweight and it doesn't negate somebody who's earned a out of lightweight. In this case, I think he would be taking it from Benile Daryush, assuming Benil could get past Matush Gamrod. That being said, we also know in February, the UFC is going

back down to Australia for a card in Perth. Chances are the UFC is going to want somebody local to headline that card. We know it's not going to be Israel out of Sanya. He's got his fight coming up in November against Alex Paheya. And I honestly, I think, and I know this might sound like an insult to the Australian fans. It certainly is not, but it feels like Israel at this point has become a Las Vegas headliner. Las Vegas, New York, you know, the big marquee cards are winning fights. Again, it's kind of like Connor McGregor. When Conner McGregor fights, yes, he did have a fight, you know, he did have a fight overseas and things like that. But typically speaking, Connor McGregor fights on the big massive cards, the saleout cards. Now, when he fought Dustin

Porier during the pandemic, it's a whole other story, the first one, the second one, I should The third one, of course, went back to Vegas. But when you can sell tickets and you can sell pay-per-views, you want your biggest stars on those cards in Vegas, New York, California, things like that. And that's why we rarely see Connor, Israel, you know, even Francis and Gondu to a certain extent, you know, guys like that who are huge stars, Ronda Rousey when she was around, that they typically will fight in the bigger cards in Vegas, New York, you know, California. Now, there are exceptions to the rule.

Of course, I mentioned Ronda Rousey. She had to fight with Holly Holm over in Australia. That was also a massive car because they were breaking an attendance record. I don't know that they're going to do that in Perth. So I don't know they're going to get. And plus, it's a quick turnaround for Adasania, fighting in November and then fighting again in February. That'd be a really quick turnaround unless he goes out there and just assassinates Alex Paheans on the first round.

It would be hard to see him turning around and fighting again. Plus, who would he fight? I mean, there's really not a number one contender at middleweight beyond Alex. So I don't think it's going to be out of Sanya. The other option, of course, is the guy who is the number one pound for pound fighter in the sport right now. And that's Alex Volcanovsky. If Alexander Volcanozky is healthy and ready to go, again, I don't think it's going to be the winner of Makachov-Olavera because they're not going to make that quick turnaround. I don't think from October to February.

It could happen, but I don't see a plus going into his backyard to defend a title. Again, not saying it will happen. I'm just saying it's a little harder logistically. On the flip side, defending the featherweight title against the number one guy there. Now, I'm not saying that Volcanovsky and let's say Josh Emmett is the biggest fight in the world, but Volcanowski fighting in his backyard is a big deal regardless of who it's against. So that's why I think that's why we're seeing a lot of moving chess pieces right now to figure out where things are going to be moving from this card and then moving forward into 2023,

because we got cards to fill and specific spots to fill like the card in Australia. where you'd like to have a Volcanowski or an Adasania or someone of that magnitude that's somewhat local. Of course, you know, Adasania is from New Zealand. But again, someone who's going to bring in the live audience. Now, you could argue and say that, you know, the Perth crowd is going to show up no matter who's on the card. And you're probably not wrong. But Volcanowski headlining a card at home would be a big deal. And I think if Volkanowski does headline the Carter home, it's probably going to be a fed away title defense.

Because I just don't know that the lightweight title is going to be ready to. be defended that quickly. So it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. And this fight card this weekend is so important in so many different ways when you look at what happens with Benil Daryush. Does he win? Does he actually get a title shot? Does he, does he get to call out and fight the winner of Makachev and Olivaa? Rightly, probably so. He should be the guy. But will it happen? I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts and variables that could change that. You got Bilal Muhammad taking on Sean Brady, you know, fighting down. I mean, listen, Sean Brady is an incredibly talented fighter. But Bilal Muhammad coming off the back-to-back wins over Wonderboy

and Vicente Lucca, you could argue he should be fighting Hamzod, he should be fighting Gilbert Burns, he should be fighting Colby Covington. Instead, he's fighting a guy down in the rankings who doesn't give him a lot to gain in a fight like this. This is high-risk, low reward for Belal Muhammad on a good win streak. And the reason I'm saying that is because Sean Brady's freaking good. Sean Brady is really good. Sean Brady winning this fight to me wouldn't really be that big of an upset. That's not a knock on Bilal Muhammad. That's a credit to Sean Brady. He's that good. But Sean Brady doesn't bring name value. Sean Brady doesn't bring ranking. Sean Brady doesn't bring that experience into this fight. So it's a big risk for Bilal Muhammad. Then you got

Mano Fior taken on Caitlin Chukagan. You know, if Mano wins, which she's very capable of doing, you know, we got to, you know, maybe she's the person who gives the next title shot against Valentina Chupchenko. I don't know that anybody is going to be that much of a favor to really challenge Valentina Shepchenko, but potential number one contenders fight on the line right there, then you got Sean O'Malley, you know, kind of out of nowhere, getting the fight with Peter Yon, who is a former champion,

you know, lost a close split decision to Al Jermaine Sterling in his last fight. You know, it'd been embroiled in that rivalry with Al Jamein for over a year. Peter Yon is that dude. I mean, he is, he is the second best band to wait in the sport, in my opinion, and he's fighting a guy who's like number 12 or 13 in the UFC rankings,

you know, unproven in a lot away is talented for sure Sean O'Malley's talented there's no doubt about that but this is a big jump up in competition for him but it's a huge opportunity if Sean O'Malley wins you telling me Sean O'Malley versus T.J. and or Al J. Stirling isn't a massive, massive fight. It is and there's a reason why they're doing this because if Sean O'Malley could just jump the line and avoid having to go through Cheetah very again have to avoid going through Corey Sanhagan have to avoid going through you know Henry Sehudo when he comes back things like that and jump him right into a title fight it's a massive opportunity. And, you know, if you listen to the preview show a couple of weeks ago with me and

Anthony Smith talking about it, this is a winnable fight for him. This is a stylistic matchup that he could win, although I still pick Peter Yon to win. So interesting. And of course, the two title fights, we don't really need to say much more about those, Al J. Al Jemaine defending against T.J. Dillishaw, T.J. trying to come back and reclaim the title that he vanquished or that he relinquished a couple years ago when he got busted for EPO. And then, of course, Al Jermaine, once again, kind of seeking out some, you know, some, some respect in a matter of ways after beating Peter Jan and now coming back and fighting a former two-time champion who a lot of people believe may be the greatest bantamate of all time. So it's a great event, incredible event.

With that being said, let's talk right now to the man who will fight on that main card against Matush Gamrod, Benil Darius. As I mentioned earlier, this interview was recorded a couple weeks ago, so we didn't get to talk about the Volcanowski thing because, of course, traveling things, guys were traveling. He was traveling, getting over to Abu Dhabi. I talked to him ahead of because I didn't want to try to get him during fight week and this all happened within the past few days with the whole Volcanozky thing. So, again, understanding

that, we're still going to talk about the fight coming up with Matush Gamrod, where he sits in the division and what's next for him with a win. So right now, let's talk to Benil Darius. It is always a pleasure to speak to my next guest. He is one of the top lightweights in the world and he's make his return to action in October

against Matush Gamrott. I got a lot to talk about with this guy. Benil Daryush. Benil, how are you? my friend. I'm doing great. Thank you. It is always a pleasure to catch up. We talk a lot. Now we actually get to talk about a fight again, which I know is exactly where you want to be. How excited are you to be at this point, literally a matter of weeks away from getting back in the cage again? Man, I am like, I'm really dying to fight because, man, it's been so long. I haven't fought so long. And I just miss fighting. I miss being inside the Octagon.

all I've done is just trained for a fight and not fought. And so I don't know how to explain like how excited I am. Yeah, absolutely. Let me start first with the ankle because, of course, I know you're dealing with that. I know last time we spoke, you said you were probably going to be ready. September, October, worked out perfectly fighting in October. I saw on your Instagram you were doing the PRP injections. How is the ankle?

How is everything? I assume everything's good now, but like how was it coming back from that? Everything's good. You know, the recovery was actually quite quick. I even told the UFC I can fight end of August. So, like, I mentioned that to them. I think there was no options end of August. They wanted me end of July, but I couldn't make end of July.

So I guess they saved me for October. Yeah. We've talked a lot, you know, in terms of where you're at in this division. The lightweight division's been a bit of a mess over the last, you know, year and a half because we're trying to figure out where things are going to go. No one could have predicted Charles was going to miss weight by half a pound, and you get a vacant title, this other kind of craziness.

How much, I know we talked and we broke down cards and things like that, but how much have you, like, paid attention to it, but also kind of drawn yourself back out of it because you were hurt and you couldn't fight. Like, because I imagine there's points where it gets frustrating, right? Like, you want to be in there,

but you're injured and you can't get back in there. And then you see all these matches getting made, and your name's not in there. Like, how much do you pay attention to it? How much do you kind of draw yourself back out of it? it was frustrating you know for me the most frustrating part was trying to get an opponent when i came back so trying to get matched up with the guys like porre which i thought which made the most sense if i wasn't going to get Islam because i asked for Islam first for the for that fight to be

rebooked but i couldn't get that for rebuked so then i said okay then i'll take pori and then they said not going to happen and then uh justing geese had just fought so he wasn't going to be for a long time. So then I said, okay, I'll go with Chandler. And then not an option either. And so just sitting there frustrated is the way it goes. And then I knew I wasn't going to get the fight with Charles, even though credentials-wise, I think I was even ahead of Islam.

But they weren't going to give me that fight. So it was just like getting matched up was the most frustrating part. And everybody's like, oh, you shouldn't fight. Matei's camera. You should wait for somebody ranked higher. but in my opinion he's top five he's very good right i think he's easily top five and he's very skilled so and i don't i don't care what number you have next to you i care about your skill set and so that that's uh that was the most frustrating part but then at the same time i'm also very excited

to fight a guy like matthias gamron yeah let me come back to gamron in a second because i agree i think it's an incredibly good fighter i've been watching him since he was in ksw he's a really really good guy But let me go back to the other subject, which is, listen, no matter how many times Dana White said, we're not going to make Islam and Charles, we're going to make Islam fight, B'Neil. I knew in the back of my head they were going to go to Abu Dhabi. They wanted to put on a big card. I was like, I can read between the lines here. We're going to get Islam and Charles.

We know that's probably what's going to happen. And that's exactly what is happening. Outside of that, I was like, okay. And I think we talked about this. You and Porre made a lot of sense where he's at in the division, where you're at the division, And Chandler is another one. Coming off the big knockout over Tony, you fought Tony, all made sense. Was there any, I won't say anger might be the wrong word, but was there any like,

kind of like, come on, like, why won't one of those guys step? Now, I don't know how much they offered it. I'm not going to sit there and accuse them of turning you down. So I don't want to make that accusation. But the frustration of the matchmakers not trying to put those fights together. Because when I heard Gammon, I was like, well, I like the fight, but I like Porriere better. I like Chandler better because it does more for you, at least where they're at. the division.

So, in my opinion, as a business, you have to do what's going to be most profitable to you, right? So for the UFC, they want to match the guys that are most, they have the most exposure. So I get that whole Dustin fighting Chandler. In my opinion, Dustin is a superstar now in the UFC, and I think Chandler is on the verge of it, right? So it makes sense that they would want to put them together. What frustrates me, you're not.

not you're not just a superstar. You're an athlete. An athlete wants to face the best competition you can. So why wouldn't they want to face me? I'm on a seven-fight win streak. You know, the fights I've had, when I beat Diego Ferreira, who's like six years unbeaten, I have a ton of finishes. I took out Tony.

Like, why wouldn't they want to face me? So that's more the frustrating part. The fact that my peers don't even mention my name. And that's been frustrating. And if it's all about business, okay, then so be it. Go ahead and be business, man. I'll just be sitting here and looking for my next meal. Yeah.

There was a time, and I remember having conversations with him when he was trying to get up the welterweight ranks, when Kamar Usman could not get anyone ranked to call his name. And I called him the most avoided man in the UFC because no one wanted to fight him, no one wanted to call his name. And Usman is not, he's not a trash talker. That's not who he is. Now he's gotten a little more comfortable, you know, kind of speaking his mind, you know,

when he became champion and things like that. But coming up, he's just not that guy. He was never that guy to say crazy things to get attention. He was never going to be Connor, you know, on the microphone, things like that. But he was just a really difficult matchup. And no one ranked above him wanted to give him a fight because they knew how tough he was. And he proved that when he became champion. Is there a little bit of that in the back of your head where it's like,

Benildare Ush legitimately might be. one of the hardest matchups in the lightweight division, but you're not the guy who's going to go out there and try to sell pay-per-views by saying crazy things about Dostepore's family, and you're not going to make accusations about Justin Gaichie, just to sell pay-per-views.

That's not who you are. So am I now speaking to the most avoided man in the UFC? Maybe in the lightweight division, possibly. I think so. I mean, when was the last time you heard somebody say my name? I don't

remember anybody in the top five ever saving my name, you know. So maybe I might be, I might be one of the most avoided, but I don't think, I don't know, it's not something I think about. Man, when you mentioned Kamar, it's funny because Kamar is such a, such a freaking nice guy. And like you said, he doesn't talk a lot. So maybe there is some resemblance there. And some inspiration, right, because he got there. You know, it took him a little longer. He had to wait a little bit, then some things had to fall his way, but he eventually got there. And he became, you know, one of the greatest world's way champions of all time. And obviously, I think he's, I think he has a great chance to becoming champion again.

But you get there, right? Like, there's a little bit of patience in there, right? Yeah, he's amazing. Like you said, he got there. And look what he did when he got there. The amazing things he did. Absolutely. So let me ask you about Matush Gamrod, because, again, he was a guy I had my eye on coming in from KSW.

He comes in day one, loses a very close decision. And then since then been undefeated to fight, his last. fight was an incredible battle back and forth battle but again when it got announced benil i'm not going to lie i was like that's kind of a weird one like it just not it's not a knock on him it's just he kind of just got into that top 10 level and of course you're established in the top five so even me i was kind of like i like the fight but it was kind of a weird one did you did you have the same reaction or were you just like i don't care get me a fight for me was get me a fight and then the fact, so when I watched him fight with Armand, I was literally sweating because I was enjoying

the fight so much and I couldn't, that night I had to go exercise. Like I had to go, I don't remember if I shadow box or went running, but I did something just so I could sleep that night. Like I was stoked on that fight. It was very inspirational. I love the fight. And so that was one of the reasons why I was like, okay, I want to fight this guy. Um, and yeah, like, uh, like, like you said, I.

As far as risk goes, I'm taking all the risk. It's clear that I'm the one taking the risk. But this is like you're looking at it from like from the business perspective, like from the view of the businessman. I'm taking all the risk. But as an athlete, this is the most obvious choice. You want to fight the best guys you can find. As an athlete, as a competitor.

and I think he's one of the best guys that can fight. I think he's easily top five. So I want to fight this guy. And then there's other guys coming up too that are amazing. I think he's part of the new guard. And then the old guard is kind of just sitting there in the top five, like shuffling, fighting each other. But, man, there's a new guard coming and they're good.

And I think they're better than a lot of the guys sitting in the top five right now. And I'm looking forward to fighting them. Yeah. I have, you know, I have so much respect for you already, Benile, but I have so much respect for you taking this fight because we've got to be honest. There's a lot of guys who wouldn't, right? Like, and this is not, I'm not trying to take shots at guys who are ranked around you, so I'm not going to name names.

But Benil, you know, and I know, if situations were reversed, and there's a couple of guys in that top five where say you're going to fight Matush Gamer, they wouldn't take that fight. They wouldn't. They just wouldn't. They'd say he's not a big enough name, doesn't have enough accomplishments. I don't get anything from it. So there is a certain level of,

like, you know, I know Dana White says it all the time. If you're going to be champion, you should be able to be anybody. And there's a level I agree with that. I get it. But there's also something to be said about who you are as a person, Benilda. You did take this fight because we both know with 100% accuracy. There are guys ranked around you without me, name and names, who would 100% not take this fight. Yeah.

Trust me, I know, because I've tried to fight those people before. And I was ranked at the time in the top five. I was ranked in the top 10 or like top 12 or whatever, and they didn't take the fight. Now that I'm ranked top five, they're still not taking the fight. So, yes, I agree with you. I know.

Yeah. And Gamrod's a really good opponent. He's got a great wrestling background. I mean, that fight with Armin was incredible. It was a back-and-forth battles through five rounds. He's had that main event experience. But he's trying to build his name off you.

Let's be honest. Like, he's trying to get where you're at, and he's trying to take your spot. And there's always a certain, you know, a certain, you know, a certain, know extra like an exclamation point to get added onto a fight like that right when a guy's trying to take your spot like he's trying to take food out of your mouth he's trying to take your opportunity away from you um and there's a you know that i imagine that you know that makes you want to

go to the gym that extra session that makes you want to run that extra mile everybody i fight is uh is that guy everybody i fight is either it's like they're either going to be my food or i'm going to be their food so like that motivation is always there that hunger is always there i'm not trying to be anybody's food. I'm trying to make everybody food. So, like, it doesn't matter what his ranking is. That's how I look at everybody. I look at everybody just, like, one more meal. Yeah. I know I'm going to ask this question, and it's going to be annoying, Benile, and I'm sorry to ask you an annoying question, but I got to ask it. You know, you were, in February, you were fighting Islam Makachad for a number one contender spot. We all knew that. The winner of that fight was

going to get a title shot. That was 100% guaranteed. And as it turned out, Islam ended up getting the title shot. And again, that's not his fault. You know, he fought Bobby Green. He won. And unfortunately, you got injured so it is what it is. Now you got Matush Gamrott on the same card as Islam and Charles, which is going to be incredible. I'll ask you about that fight in a minute. And of course, we also know Chandler's going to fight Porriere coming up in November. Where are you at in terms of the title? Like, do you believe you beat Matush Gamrott? You'll be back where you were in terms of you should get a title shot? Because that's what I believe. but I'm not the matchmaker.

You know, I'm not the matchmaker. When I spoke with Sean, like, he's like, listen, we can't guarantee it because just in case, like, for example, Habib decides to come back. Something crazy like that. But no way are the guys who have had their chances at the title shot getting another chance, you know. Like, they're not going to give Dustin Poirier or Michael Chandler another shot when they just had a shot, you know? I think he's been on your, sorry, my daughter. That's all right. She wants you to get that title shot too.

I mean, she wants us bad as good. She's more angry than I am, but I don't think they're going to give those guys the title shot. The way I was told is basically like, hey, the only, like, we can't guarantee it just in case, like, Habib comes back. Something crazy like that happens. That's the only way. No way those guys get to jump ahead of me. Yeah. I agree. I absolutely agree. I think it's like, again, I have nothing against those guys, but, you know, Michael Chandler on a one-fight win street currently. Now, beating Dustin would be a great win, but he did just fight Charles, you know, a year, a little over a year ago, you know what I mean? And we don't know, obviously, we don't know how that's going to play out. And Dustin, he just fought Charles even sooner. So again, you know, it's kind of hard. Actually, that's his last fight. That's literally his last fight is against Charles. So, yeah, it's hard to justify that. And so that also plays a fact, rightly. And also you get to be on the same card. Can

I asked me, they always do the backup fighter thing. Have they talked to you about potentially being the backup for the main event? That's what Ali told me. I was the backup for this. If something goes wrong, they would put me in. Are you planning on doing the weight cut to 155 then? Yeah, of course. I mean, it's not that hard.

I make 156. Last time, bro, last time in Texas, like it was, I was pretty much 155 when I fought. what happened was like I got on the scale with the UFC scale the it's a digital scale it said like 155.2 and I was like okay I'm sure if I like I was I had underwear out so I was like whatever I got on the the one from the from the athletic commission it's one of those uh the what do you call it they they use the weights on it right yeah yeah anyways I got on that one and he's like 156.2. And I was like, what? So, like, I had to go back and cut a little bit more weight. I mean, the whole thing was stupid. So I'm planning on making 55 just like last time.

Yeah. Now, you know, and listen, to be clear, normally I would say, you know, you're going to prepare for Matush Gamrod and that's the fight you're going to have. But we just saw, you know, days ago the insanity that happened at UFC 279 where, you know, the entire car changes on 24. And we have, listen, Charles Olivera, whether we, you know, I, I feel, I legitimately feel bad for him that he's going to go into this fight as of, you know, the vacant title. But he missed weight by half a pound. It can happen, right?

So in your head, like, you're not thinking about those guys, but is there a little bit in the back head saying, you know, I got to be ready for five rounds? I got to know that this could happen because weirder things have happened. COVID, all things can happen. We don't know, you know what I mean? Like, is it because now that you're going to be the backup fighter, like, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you. you deal with that mentally? I mean, I just prepare basically, I prepare

for a guy like Mateus Camrod. And three rounds, five rounds, it's really just pacing yourself, right? For three rounds, I get to go nuts for three rounds. I get to go as hard as I want. And then for five rounds, I'll pace a little bit more. It's like,

you know, it's just kind of you get to enjoy your time in there. If you really want to fight five rounds. And as far as preparing for Islam, or Charles, really the way you do that is you be as well-rounded as you can possibly be. So in terms of striking, in terms of timing, wrestling, all that stuff, be the best that you can be, and then don't worry about the rest. It's all going to take care of itself.

Yeah, and you've already spent a whole camp training for Islam, and I know you wanted that Charles Ola Verified, so I'm sure you've already played that fight in your head a thousand times. Yeah, I mean, I was supposed to match. I've been matched up with both of them, so I've studied both guys. I have an idea of how it would fight each the guy. So it's not, it wouldn't be much of an issue. Yeah.

Can I ask your opinion on that fight? I know you're going to get asked this question a thousand times leading into it. Charles and Islam, how do you see that one going out? And I know we've done breakdowns for entire cards on this podcast, and I always appreciate. So how do you, how do you see that one going down? It's really tough, man. I'm like, I'm leaning towards Islam, but it's like small, like a 52% to 48% kind of deal. I'm not just because Charles has a lot of power, his grappling's good.

I just, man, it's all about who finds their distance first. Does Islam find his distance to grab Charles first, or does Charles find his distance to land those powerful strikes? So it's just one of those things. Yeah, it's a really interesting fight. I actually, I'm kind of like you. I lean a little bit towards Charles because I think a lot of people are counting him out, and maybe I'm just going for that because I think people are like, you know, ready to crown Islam as the next Kabib.

I like Islam. I think Islam's great. But Islam doesn't, to me, doesn't have that signature performance yet where I'm like, man, I really know he's going to be that guy. He doesn't have those wins yet. You know, he doesn't have to. So, like, that's what I stopped to question a little bit with him because we haven't seen him beat a guy like you or a guy like Porre or a guy that's, you know, established at the top of the division yet. So I got, I'm a little hesitant to put the crown on him yet. Beach Charles, I'll shut up.

But Charles has done it. Charles has proven it. Yeah. So you have to understand, Islam is a tactician. He works very good in terms of game plan and setups. And, and he takes his time. You know, Habib was more of a, he was a tactician as well, but he created a lot more pressure. And, and he made a bigger mess in the octagon.

Islam doesn't really make a mess. He's more pinpoint. He uses less energy. So, and with all that being said, guys like that, they're, they, you know, it's hard to find them in exciting fights. Like that's the reason why you don't seem an exciting fights. But man, he's going to be hard to beat. That's why I'm leaning towards him. But if stylistically, Charles has a great, great style to beat him because Charles is Uber offense, like pretty much all offense.

And guys like that, guys like that. give tacticians a lot of problems. Yeah. For you personally, what would be the more fun matchup? Would it be Benil or would it be, or would it be Islam or would it be Charles? What would be the more fun matchup for you? I want to fight them both.

So however I can fight them both is really, because to me they're both very good. They're both like top guys, right? So here's whoever like wins, I hope I can fight the winner, beat him. And then hopefully, you know, the loser gets another fight, wins, and then I come back and I can fight them. Because these are two of the best guys in the division.

I don't want to only fight one of them. I want to fight them both. So in terms of who gets me more excited, they both get me excited. But once I see who wins the fight, that's the guy that's going to make me even more excited to fight him. Yeah, can I imagine, you know, after you go out and win your fight against Matush Gamrodrod, you're going to be running back out ringside to watch that one unfold. I mean, it's going to be a great event in Abu Dhabi. crowd's going to be insane a chance to fight in Abu Dhabi which is a cool experience from that side of the world you know it's all going to be fun but are you going to be the guy like rushing back out there to be cage side for that one um so yeah I mean it all depends if I can get all my interviews done in time if I can get if I can get showered up man it's like sometimes they like at the performance institute or I'm sorry at the what is it at the apex they're

would literally have us fight, go do on interviews, and send us back to the hotel. And the whole time I'm thinking, can I get a shower in here? Like, that's my biggest worry right after fighting. Like, can I get a shower? So if I can do my interviews and shower, I'd love to sit, sit cage side and watch that fight, like, real close, too. Yeah. Are you excited about Abu Dhabi? Like, I'm going to find an Abu Dhabi?

I know this. I mean, it's a massive car, but you also have to travel halfway around the world to do it. Yes and no. I'm excited because it's a massive card and the fact that UFC put me on it shows that I have value in the company. The thing I'm not excited about, obviously, is having to leave early, having to fight up. I'll probably end up fight up at midnight or 1 a.m. or something. So having to change my schedule and things like that. So whatever, whatever it takes.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I tell you what, Benil, we do a lot of interviews and I always appreciate it, but I'm going to make you promise me something right now. You go out, you win, you win your, fight, you go eight in a row, you get the title shot. When you come home, when you fly home, first interview right now. I'm just telling you right now, you got to make me the first interview. You got to promise.

Yeah, sounds good. But here's the thing. You got to be, you got to be willing to call me probably on a Sunday, on that Sunday. Because, you know, I'll be going to be reaching out. I'll do it. I make time for you anytime, Manil. You're one of my favorite guys. I'll always make time for you.

I appreciate it, brother. So yeah, just give me a call on Sunday and we'll get it over with it. Absolutely. Well, B'Neil, it is always a pleasure to catch up with you. You know I appreciate it. We do a lot of these. You've come on a broke down fights with me, and I always appreciate it. But I'm glad we're actually able to talk about a fight again.

Enjoy the rest of your training camp. Of course, safe travels over to Abu Dhabi. Cannot wait to, legitimately, like, I'm already excited to see you back in action. Like, I know what I'm getting when a B'Neill-Dier-Ush fight happens. I'm already excited. The fight's not even here yet. So enjoy your training camp, safe travels. I hope the family's doing well

and thank you as always for the time. You know I appreciate it. Thanks, brother. Talk to you soon. All right, bye-bye. Want to say a big thank you, of course, to B'Neil Darius. Look forward to his fight coming up on Saturday

against Matush Gamera. A reminder, UFC 280 is an early start time. 10 a.m. Eastern for the prelims, 2 p.m. Eastern for the main card from Abu Dhabi. So, you know, check your schedule on Saturday to make sure you're off or calling off

or whatever you're going to do to make sure you can watch this card because it's one of the most ridiculous cards of the year and it's coming up in a matter of days. I want to say a big thank you, of course, to both B'Neill Daryush and my first guest earlier, Frankie Edgar, the legend in his retirement fight

coming up at UFC 281 in November. As always, we appreciate everyone that tunes into the show. Make sure you to check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and of course you can always find us over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com,

where we will also have you locked and tuned in for UFC 280. We got media day coming up. We got press conference on Thursday. And then, of course, the fights on Saturday. So do not miss a single bit of the action over on MMAFighting.com. A big thank you, as always, for everyone that tunes into the show. And thanks so much for tuning in.

We'll see you next week. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause. refreshes.