MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Jim Miller Addresses Jared Gordon Being Pulled From Their Fight, His Plans for UFC 300 and a Potential Matchup with Matt Brown

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Following a stunning 23-second knockout over Jesse Butler at UFC Vegas 74, Jim Miller joins the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. To kick off the show, Miller will discuss his wild fight week where he arrived in Las Vegas with Jared Gordon as an opponent but then two days prior to the event, he ended up with Butler instead. Miller will address Dana White’s comments after the fight where he blamed Gordon for accepting the fight after suffering a concussion in his last outing and who was really responsible for allowing him to accept the matchup against him on short notice. We’ll also talk about the knockout, which increased Miller’s hold on the all-time record for wins in the UFC while also earning him the fastest finish of his UFC career. Miller also talks about the eye injury he suffered in his previous fight with Alexander Hernandez, his hopes to compete at UFC 300 and the chances that won’t actually end up as his final fight. Plus Miller discusses possible opponents including a potential showdown with Fighter vs. Writer co-host Matt Brown! All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. Fox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm your host as always, Damon Martin.

And this week, I am happy to be joined by the man with the most wins in UFC history. He is also now the owner of a blistering 23-second, not a blistering, which I learned on Saturday nights his fastest finish. It actually beats the Clay Gwida finish from a couple years ago. It is always my pleasure to speak to the legend himself, Jim Miller. Or should I say Jim effing Miller, as I always call him. Jim, what's going on? Not too much.

Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Congratulations, of course, on another amazing win. I know you can't predict how fights are going to play out, but could you have pictured a better way to win a fight on Saturday night? Yeah, not really. You know, that was a good one. I mean, listen, you've had lots of impressive finishes.

And I mentioned right there, like you've had a lot of fast finishes, a lot of first round finishes, but 23 seconds. I mean, you can't, like I said, you're not getting paid by the hour. That's right. Yeah. You know, that it was almost too fast, right? Because it's like you come out and you're like, oh, man, like, well, I guess that's it. Right now.

I guess we're done for the night. So let's backtrack because this past week, the fight week for you, is pretty insane in and of itself because a couple weeks ago, of course, Ludovic Klein was the guy you're fighting, he falls out, and they replace him with Jared Gordon. So you're fighting Jared Gordon. Good matchup. Jared's a veteran. It seemed like a fun fight. But there was a little initial concern about, you know, would he be ready? He obviously suffered through a pretty nasty fight with Bobby Green. All those things are going, you show up Fight Week and we hear right away, like fights canceled.

So can you give me like just a timeline like how your fight week went leading to actually getting to Jesse Butler? Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, when Jared's name was first presented to me, I immediately asked. I was like, is, like, is everything cool? Because I knew, you know, I knew he took the head butt. And regardless, you know, the fight getting overturned to a no contest. it doesn't affect what happened inside the octagon that night um so yeah my uh my worries were were met with like hey everything's good to go we asked uh everything's everything's you know golden because my options at that point were you know we had a couple different names thrown out there

or it was wait for uh Klein until like mid july um so if if if Jared had fallen through I was probably going to end up, you know, waiting another couple weeks to fight. So, you know, and then there was also like, okay, if I'm waiting another couple weeks, I've been training my butt off for the last, you know, four or five weeks. If I have another six weeks, I kind of got to pull up and take it easy for, you know, a week or two and then get back into the grind. So I really wanted to know. So, you know, then we come into Fight Week.

And, yeah, it was Thursday, yeah, Thursday morning. I, like, go down to get my meals from the PI staff. And, you know, my phone starts buzzing in my pocket. And I pull it out. And, of course, it's the name you don't want to see, you know, during Fight Week. And that's Sean Shelby's name. So I think I immediately started cursing before I even picked up the phone. And yeah, it's like, hey, he's out, you know, do you want me to find somebody else?

And I was like, absolutely, let's do it. I'm here. So fortunately, we were able to find, you know, Jesse in a couple hours. And, yeah, things hopped right back into, you know, hopped right back on track. And we got everything done. Yeah. Let me ask you mentioned when they first off. for you, Jared Gordon, because I know you said this, you know, even in the pre-fight, like, there

was a little concern because of how he, his last fight ended with the knockout and everything. When you talk to the UFC, the UFC had said, because this is like, this is what the timeline. A lot of people are curious about. The UFC told you, they had asked him specifically if he was good to go. Like, he was healthy and ready to go. That's what you were, that was what you were made to understand, correct? Yes. Yes, exactly.

So when, because, like, obviously, like, Dana White came out on Saturday. A lot of people are kind of upset that he's like, you know, the blame falls on Jared Gordon because I guess, you know, again, it's the fighter's job to disclose when you're not able to fight. Now, obviously, we all know, Jim, I know, you know, we all know well enough. Fighters go into every fight injured. You're not going to tell every single injury. But with something like that, like, listen, you're a pretty even-kill guy.

I know you don't necessarily get any. But were you upset or angry at all that he did accept the fight knowing that he had a concussion? Because in my estimation, if he had never said that during media day, he would have fought on Saturday night. Like he made it public and that's what doomed it. Yeah, I, I think that I think that's what ended up happening. You know, sometimes, you know, sometimes you go through the medicals, like after a fight, right? You know, you get to the tent in the back and, like, sometimes you're not fully really, like, showing signs of concussions or anything like that or even injuries, right?

like this is actually a conversation I've had with with the doctors on quite a few occasions. Like you're taking us when we are still like high on adrenaline. You know, like like you're we're still. A heart pumping at a mile a minute. Like I mean, we are we are still in fight mode and you're asking us like if things hurt or this or that. and it's hard for us to like fully assess you know what exactly is going on so from what of my understanding is that he didn't really feel like he had a concussion until like you know a week or so later um so then then it is kind of on him like hey maybe maybe you should have

vocalized that to people but uh you know like i said uh post fight like i understand him I understand him doing it. I understand him taking the fight. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of reckless. But we, we get paid to step into an age, the tar out of each other, right? I'm, I'm disappointed with his team. You know, like, if, if one of my teammates, you know, one of my guys was in that same situation, there's absolutely no fucking way that I let them take a fight.

under those circumstances. Combining a massive weight cut with, like, actively getting over a concussion, it's just, that's not good. That's not a good play. So for his coaches and his manager to just brush that off and, like, okay, we got this, you know, I think it's kind of reckless.

And it's like, I mean, I get it. I get it that the idea and the mentality is that, like, they see my name. They're like, oh, we're going to, we're going to beat the shit out of gym. You know,

we're going to knock him out, right? Like, that's, hey, you got to be confident, right? But how many guys that, that,

that have beaten me, have gotten out of the fight not getting hit? You know? Like, unless he thinks he's going to take me down on the first strike in you, he's slam me, my shoulder's going to separate.

And then he's going to, then he's going to have the jihitsu skill of the most prolific submission artist in the UFC's history, you know, on my back, like that's the only time somebody's fought me and beat me and not gotten hit. Like, I've, I've beaten guys and not hit them. But, like, nobody's beating me and not getting, except for the one fight with Charles Olvera.

Like, that's it. So, yeah, like, you have to, like, look at it. Like, hey, we don't, we don't want to get into a firefight right now. but you're you're fighting me like yeah i like i i i don't have a ton of knockouts on my on my resume but i'm still going to hit you yeah yeah you don't hit me back but i'm still going to hit you you don't you don't walk out of a fight with jim miller uh without taking a little bit of damage that's kind of like the story like you may you may even win there may be a chance to me beat you but they're not going to walk out the same as they walked in exactly exactly so it's it's

you know if I was just some like straight jih Tjitsu guy like I think it's a safer fight you know in that situation in that in it you know

dealing with what he was dealing with but like I mean it's it's not like I'm unknown it's it's not like there's no film on me it's not like there's there there isn't a mountain of data you know on what it's like

to fight me Yeah, I mean, it's like It I honestly I know that like my My jih Tichita coach and my Muay coach Would have been They

Amur and Brian They would have Made it apparent that they didn't want me to take the fight You know My My strength and conditioning coach Martin Rooney and my nutritionist Nick Barroner, they would have

chewed my freaking ass off if I accepted a fight in that situation. Honestly. Like, you know, like, Amr and Brian and I, we have more of like a brotherly relationship where Martin and Nick are like father figures, you know,

so they would have scolded me for taking a fight, you know, while still getting over a concussion and and having to cut nearly 40 pounds. Yeah. Well, we always, like his quote, and I like Jared, by the way. Jared's a good dude.

Like, it's nothing against him. But he said, and I read his quote before we did the interview today, and I was like, he said minor concussion. I was like, there's no such thing as a minor concussion. Like, concussions, like, we all know the story. You remember the story. T.J. Grant, you know,

incredible fighter gets a heel across the head during a jiu-jitsu practice, never fights again. There's no such thing as a minor concussion. Like, you have a concussion or you don't have a concussion. And we are still, like, in 2023 we are still kind of unknown about concussions how long they last all those kind of things and i i've had a concussion from a car accident i felt fine two days later and then a week later i started getting like vertigo and and headaches and i couldn't be in the sun like it was bizarre like it didn't

hit me until like a week later it was the weirdest freakiest feeling in the world you can't go and again the reality i mean in a weird way like i'm glad he got pulled in that regard because if you not came out like you did, Jesse Butler. We may be talking about some serious problems going on with Jared Gordon right now, but at the same time, you're right, it's irresponsible to tell the UFC, yes, I'm good to go, and then you show up and you disclose that. There's no way they're going to let you fight. Like, there's no way you're going to say, I had a minor concussion six weeks ago,

and they're going to like, oh, sure, go right ahead and fight. Exactly. You know, yeah, it's, you, as a fighter, you got to be, you got to be, like, like supremely confident at times right like you have to yeah that's the way you have to step into into the octagon um but yeah it's uh it's it's you're you're putting yourself in a in a really messed up situation uh and like i said like to to not have a couple voices like that's the that's the part the stakes like i i wish it was you know there there were there were people that talked him out of it because like

you know, this isn't a good look now. You know, and he's going to have to deal with that. But, yeah, like, we, we as fighters, you know, and teams, like, we need to look out for our guys. We need to look out for, you know, the guys who are super willing, right, to risk it all. like yeah like somebody somebody from his team should have been in his year yeah did you run into jared at all after that or did you see him after that i assume not no no i didn't see him after that yeah so now in your in your case you know again you're a fighter's fighter gym but you get that call and they say do you want a replacement what did your coaches there you go talking about advice

what did your coaches say because there's a there's a risk there yes they're going to get a guy on 48 hours notice but yeah listen this is the guy who's going to take a fight going to try to live his UFC dream and make a debut fighting the freaking winningest fighter in UFC history. Of course they're going to take that risk because it's, I mean, yes, there's obviously, you know, Jesse, I'm sure Jesse Butler wishes he hadn't got knocked down 23 seconds, but hey, he got in the UFC, he's going to get another fight. We know the UFC's going to keep him around because he stepped up, all those kind of things.

But what was your, like on your side, because that's a risk for you? Yeah, it's definitely a risk, you know. You are fighting somebody that you don't really know as much. much about. Like I said, there's, there's, Jesse's been fighting for quite some time. He's, he's been on the UFC's radar. I think his last fight was against a UFC vet that he, he ended up knocking out. So, like,

he was right there. But, yeah, when you take some, put him in that situation, it's like, hey, there's nothing to lose. You know, it makes them, it makes them a dangerous, a really dangerous opponent, you know, so, but like, at this point, right, and the way

that I train, like I, it doesn't, it doesn't matter to me. Like, I'm, uh, when I'm preparing for a fight, I'm trying to stay healthy is like, number one, unfortunately. Uh, number two is getting a really good shape. Number three is, uh, be as sharp as I can be like with the things that I'm good at. And then like, the fourth and last thing is like, okay, what, what is, what, uh, opportunities am I going to get in, in, you know, against a specific opponent, uh, and what do I have to worry about, right?

Because, like, I train to close up the holes, right? Like, like, I believe that my coaches shouldn't be able to, like, easily coach somebody to a win against me. Like, you should be able to take my coaches, put them in the other guy's corner, and give them a couple weeks. And, like, if they're doing their job when we're working together, they're minimizing the holes that I have in my game,

So, like, if they're just working around them, like, then that's an issue that I have with my guys, with my coaches. So, like, yeah, I'm preparing to tighten everything up, to be as dangerous as I can be, and also to be as, like, hard to catch as I can be. So, yeah, like, so to me, it's like, well, I've been training for, you know, six weeks to fight tonight, and he hasn't. I like those odds. You know, I like that opportunity.

Yeah. And to his credit, you know, knowing full well that, you know, listen, he hasn't really been training going, you know, deep into a third round with a guy like yourself's probably a losing proposition. So he came out guns blazing. Like he came out swinging. Obviously a backfire because when you backed him up, you caught him at that left hand of,

oh boy. Do you like when you, because obviously you've been in those wars. You know what it's like to go toe to toe with a guy. and sometimes you get the best of it, sometimes you get the worst of it. But when he comes out swinging, like, you reacted very well, and you recognized it very well. And when you hit that, like, when you hit him with the left, obviously you followed up with the uppercut, like, do you know,

like do you realize or is it just all like reaction in that moment that you're just going until it's over because you hit him there was so much impact? Like, do you know when you land that good of a punch? You know, like, I, it's kind of, like, the first one, landed like I don't really remember throwing it right because it was it was like in the fray right like when you when you get into those battles sometimes like I was in a very reactive state uh which is is good because it's where I excel um but yeah it's like I don't I don't remember saying throw the left uh you know it was like two three two and uh I remember the three missing and I had to change that that second

you know, cross to it to an uppercut and like at the basically the moment probably before it landed was like oh yeah, we're good. Yeah. You know, so yeah, it all happened so fast

that it's like there was there was no like there was no gauging. There was no timing. There was no no plan at that point. No no you know my my my my my my my my my my brain wasn't even really picking up what was going on.

It was more just like, you know, central nervous system just going. And, you know, that's, like I said, that's where I, that's where I do really well. And I, and I train to try to, you know, bring that out. And, you know, in the fights where guys slow me down where we don't get into those situations is, is when sometimes they, you know, they beat me about points. Yeah. Now, obviously afterwards, it was a little skis. for a minute there because Jesse stayed down.

He eventually got back to his feet. You know, again, this is a job. You're not out there to hurt anybody. Did you notice that right away that he stayed down for a little while? And he got back up. Seemed like he was okay. Again, it's a scary moment, but that's kind of the nature of the sport. Yeah, it is a nature of the sport, you know.

And we're both in there to hurt each other, but you don't want to, like, really hurt each other. you know um i think maybe there's some some guys that kind of do but uh yeah like uh i'm out there to i'm out there to i'm out there to win and to to to you know to make my opponent not want to be in there with me anymore uh you know like when i when i make somebody tap like that's uh that's that's that's that's that's that's them conceding you know it's like nope i don't want to be in here anymore i want to i want to like somebody help me uh you know and that's when i get super pumped um You know, like, but yeah, once I, once I kind of like walk to the opposite end of the octagon, as he's, he's still still down.

Yeah, it's like, oh, boy, you know, come on, buddy. Let's get up here. Yeah. Now, certainly, listen, no one is, and I say this, like, I know it's a, it's a bad phrase to use, but no one's like dancing on the grave of a guy who gets knocked out. And I'm certainly not either. But I posted the story. I did the recap on it.

And we, the photo, did you see the photo right after, like, you walking away and him down? I was like that, like, again, certainly not, like, celebrating him being knocked out. But I was like, my God, like that's like an iconic photo of like just the work being done. Like, you walking away and him laying like that's, again, certainly not like it's not. Like, it's not, I mean, it is a detriment to him, of course. And he's okay. But, like, that's one of those photos are like, like, damn. Like, that's just like, we love the knockout photos, like the rubber face photos when you catch a guy and you see the rubber face.

but like that one of you just turned and walking towards the talking walking towards the camera and him laid out. I was like, damn, like that's one of those iconic footage you put on a t-shirt. Yeah, you know, you know,

and the fact of the matter is, right, if he came in on two days notice and knocked me out in the similar fashion, he, he'd have been, his eye'd been bugged out of his head, you know, like,

uh, yeah, like, He would have definitely been screaming. And I'm sure everybody, you know, sitting at home would have been screaming too. You know, seeing the underdog come in and pull it off. You know, but it's, it's, you live by the sword, you die by the sword, right? So like, my reaction was based off of me having been there, done that, you know, time and time again.

where, like, I wouldn't hold it against him if, like, he went and was, you know, yeah, jumping over the cage and screaming and hoot and hollering and, and doing all that stuff. If, if the roles had been reversed. Because I'm, listen, it's a, it's a pretty intense situation to be in, you know, come in on your first one. And if something like that happened, I probably would have been more excited if I was that guy, you know, if I was the one making my debut. So, you know, it, it's just the way it is.

100, 100, that would be his profile photo today. If he had done that to you, that would 100% be his profile photo. Absolutely. And there'd be no, you know, no ill will about it, right? Like, it's, that's, that's, that's the game we play, right? We, we, we do something that is, is super unforgiving. And, yeah, like, sometimes you're the hand. or sometimes do the nail.

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Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. Yeah, two quick things before we talk about the future, Jim. I got to bring it up. One is during fight week when you're getting the change of opponents, you posted an Instagram video addressing it, and you're like, can people please stop messaging my wife to ask me about this now? I want to clear the air on this. I actually, so I texted you during Fight Week, and I literally opened my text and I said,

I said, I'm so sorry to bug you on Fight Week because literally, like, I'll text you a week before the fight. I text you like two days after the fight. I try to never, ever text a fighter during Fight Week. You're cutting weight. You're doing media. You're doing all your medicals. You're doing all you.

The last thing you want to deal with is an asshole journalist texting you about something. But to be fair, I never texted your wife. So I just clear in the air. that was never me. I never did that. Yeah, no, no,

she, she screenshot. And it was, yeah, it's like some, some like meme page or whatever. Yeah, like low level type stuff.

So, uh, yeah, like when I say media, that's, that's kind of what I met, you know, but,

uh, it's just, it was funny because she, she actually got like, uh, somebody was asking her, like the week prior, if I could do an interview.

And she's like, why, why are they asking, why are they asking you? I was like, I haven't seen anything from them, you know. I mean, I'm not very good at, like, replying to DMs, but, yeah, like,

I thought it was funny. I was just having fun with it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I just, I'm making sure you know. It was not me. I did not do that. I just bugged you. I just bugged you in the middle of fight week, you know. You're just in the middle of, you know,

getting a new fight on 48 hours notice, whatever. Also, real quick, let's talk about the hair. Yep. I dig the haircut. I dig it. I dig it. The mullet is back. Like, it's back in.

form. Like it is back and form and I was like now that, see, I can't, I can't do it. I can't, when my hair grows out longer and about where it's at right now, I lose my mind. It drives me crazy. But I was like, man, I wish I could pull it off. You pull it off, Jim, you pull off the mallets. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, so let's talk about the future. You know, it's funny. When you originally mentioned, this is going back a couple years ago, when you mentioned about like, I want to be the guy to fight the UFC 300. It was a cool thing because you did 100, 200, 200. At the time, it sounded like an abstract date

and even in my mind I was like man that seems like such a long long ways away like wow that's like you know I mean good for you you could do it but that's that's like really in the future I did the math after Saturday night that's like March or April the next year

we're less than a year away from that like did you realize that because that was like your date like you wanted to make it till then Jim I got to be honest with you the way you looked on Saturday night and the way you looked in your recent fights I'm not telling you what to do but you look like you can fight well beyond UFC 300

Yeah, you know, I, uh, I, uh, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I thought the same thing, right? Like, the same exact thing. I was like, back in the day, a couple of it was like, yeah, okay. Uh, that's a, that's a good, that's, that's, that's far enough away. It was a couple years. I think it was probably like 2020 when I, when I, when I mentioned it. We're only going to like three years ago. Uh, uh, and, and, yeah like I I feel good performing well I definitely still want to fight on the card you know and like I just I just don't know yet I just don't know if it'll be the last one yet because the thing of it is right

is like I want to go out knowing that that fight that I'm walking to is going to be my last time right that's kind of that's kind of the the biggest thing to me is that I want to be preparing for my final MMA fight. I want to be walking to my final MMA,

knowing that it's my final MMA fight. Because, like, that puts me in that, like, nothing to lose realm, right? Like, there's nothing to hold back for. There's nothing to, there's, you know, there, yeah, like, it gets me excited thinking about that. But yeah, like he said, it's probably only like March or April. If it was July, like, yeah, we get another fight in there, you know, maybe, like, we'll see how it goes. It's another, it's another fight.

It's another camp. It's another bunch of opportunities to get hurt, right? But, yeah, like, where it is now with the pace of fights, you know, like, Getting like maybe, what, five months or so. Yeah, it's like two more fights. So I don't know if that's going to be enough. Well, I like that attitude also because you know as well as I do, like a lot of guys, they have like an emotional fight, maybe a tough loss or even a big win.

And they retire afterwards in the emotional moment. And then inevitably, six months later, a year later, they're coming back because they're like, I didn't really go out the way I wanted to, whatever. I like the idea that you go in saying this is it I'm you know this is my last fight and you know it going in because then you really can't leave it all in there right like you leave it all occasion you know going into it and also I've heard this before some fighters who have declared that they say

it also puts me it puts it puts it back on me to live up to my commitment like I've told my family I'm going to retire I've told my kids whatever I told me so they know like now if I break that promise I'm breaking it to them too you know going in so I imagine I don't know if there's any part of that but like it's also that right like you go in knowing like, okay, I've made promises, I'm going out on this fight, this is it, and that's going to be the day. Yeah, yeah.

You know, like I'm a stubborn guy, believe it or not, right? So like I'm not going to be the type that that retires and comes back. You know, like my goal is to be able to put the energy that I put into fighting into other stuff, into the next thing. And I'm excited for that. I really am. I'm just, I just don't know if, you know, what, another 11 months is enough to, is enough for me.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm still addicted. I'm still addicted to the feeling and, you know, like, man, you know, like during the warm up for this last. one it was like I was thinking like man like I might only be doing this for another like year or so I was like I'm gonna miss this shit and uh you know like I find myself in the back and I'm like you know like when I when I was a young fighter man and probably my first like I don't know dozen or so 15 in the UFC like I I used to get myself like super fired up and like I'm just like

sitting down the chair just like smiling you know just like like this is watching other guys warm up and stuff and like this is cool as shit you know like I get to do this you know as a living and I've been able to do this so many times and uh yeah I was just like you fucking shit eating grin oh and like just uh like now it's like okay well it's it's easy for me or easier for me to like to turn it on right to turn it on right to to get into that zone when I'm fighting. So I don't need to, like, get myself super excited. Because that switch turns on a lot easier.

So, like, I can be having fun. I could be enjoying the process and, you know, really soaking it all in and still go out and perform, which is cool as shit. Absolutely. It really is. Because it was, like, you know, like, there were benefits to fight in, like, madman they really were you know but there were also like negatives to it in that like i i mean i i've always gotten like bad tunnel vision uh like i even during the covid

days of no no fans and stuff like that i could barely hear my corner uh i just hear like static in my ears that's really it um and uh like when i would get super pumped up it was even worse and like guys would be you know beating me like they had the game plan and I wouldn't adapt. I wouldn't change to what was happening. Where, where, uh,

now it's like, it's like, okay, like what's happening. What's, I'm seeing more. Um, um,

um, adapting to changes more. And, um, yeah, just like a lot looser. And I, and I feel like I'm a lot more dangerous when I'm loose.

Yeah, absolutely. As of that point, you mentioned, UFC 300 like so there's a like again nothing's set in stone in terms of that being your last fight so there's a chance you go beyond that is there a good chance UFC 300 would be your next fight though just as you said because of the risk of if you fight in october november maybe you get an injury and then march or april comes around and you can't fight like is ideally and again we know

how i know how you are i know if sean shelby calls you there's a good chance you're going to say you just fought 23 seconds but is there a chance that ufc 300 would be your next fight absolutely not No. No. Yeah. I'm going to get another one by the end of the year. You know, I didn't get to this point by being conservative. You know, I didn't have this career by being conservative.

And, you know, I misspoke. Somebody called, you know, somebody called it, pointed out at the post-flight. I want to finish my career like how I started my career, which is being active. anybody I can. So, yeah, like that's, my goal isn't to just sit it out. Because honestly, like, training camps are hard. You know, they're always dangerous. They always have been dangerous.

Like, we skirt the edge, you know? Like, you got to basically get into fights every week. I hurt myself now doing stupid stuff. Like, just absolutely stupid stuff. stuff. Like I, I, back in December, uh, I, I partially tore my Patelor Tendent and my left knee, uh, bending over to pick up a little piece of a, you know, the corner of a rapper from like a granola bar or something like that in the kitchen, you know, like, I bent over and it was like, bang. And I was like, oh shit. Like, you know, had to walk it off. And, uh, like, so then I spent the next

seven weeks of a training camp, like being super protective of my knees, because of course, I hurt my left ones, so then my right one's like, no, I'm going to hurt worse. Because that's the way my body works these days, once I start compensating, then the other side hurts even worse. So, like, it doesn't really matter. Like, I could, I could sit on the shelf, you know, and say, hey, I'm, I'm going to be like, I'm going to wrap myself and bubble wrap and not fight until 300. and I could hurt myself bending over in the garden or, you know,

or like stubbing my toe or something like that. Like it's just, we are at that point. Yeah. We're at that point that I can hurt myself doing stupid stuff. And I'm actually like safer when I am going hard because I am, that's when I put the, you know, I put the armor on. I'm protecting myself. And, like, that's even, like, sparring and stuff like that and rolling, like, when I,

when I have had these little injuries, you know, in the last couple years, it's always, it's always something stupid. It's not like somebody, you know, somebody rips on an arm bar or something like that. No, it's like, I, I'm sparring. We, I circle or whatever, and I step off the mat. And it's like, you just, you just like tweak a ligament in your foot. Like what the hell? You know, like, because you stepped an extra inch and a half.

It's the silly stuff. So I'm definitely not going to, you know, try to put myself into that padded room and protect myself because I'd probably hurt myself in there. I forgot to ask going into the fight. It didn't even really occur to me because you had done that post after the fight with Alexander Hernandez. So the eye is okay, because I know you did that post about the eyes. So the eye's okay.

Like because that was when you posted that, I was going to text you, but you posted that. It's like, you don't need to hear from me at that point. But it was kind of scary when you made that post. Like, damn, that is because we all know, obviously everyone knows the story of Michael Bisping. Like, that's probably the most famous one when you deal with eye injuries. And Alan Belcher is another one where he had an eye poke and it dramatically changed his career. So when you posted that, I was like, damn, like that series. But it seems like the eye's okay, obviously.

Yeah, really, really like trippy. So I, you know, I went, saw a specialist. like that. I had two doctors telling me my vision wasn't going to get any better. And at the point where I was in, you know, in like a week or two after the fight, like,

shit was pretty blurry. You know? Like, it was, like, my, eye has always been, like, my really good eye. You know, I took an eye poke in the left eye in 2018 that kind of affected that a little bit. But, like, yeah, my right eye, I'm right eye dominant.

It's always been super sharp, you know, 2020. And so like my vision was always kind of favoring my right side. And for the first like month or so, I mean, looking at my phone, I'd see double vision. It was like hard to read stuff. And I was thinking like, you know, like, well, I could see somebody in front of me, right? And that's why like I was talking to some of the doctors and I'm like, you know, and the fight docs, stuff like that. And I was like, I can, I can still fight.

Like, because I don't need to, you know, it's not like I'm reading, you know, signs on the highway at 200 miles an hour. Like, I don't, I don't need to, you know, I don't need to read small, small shapes quickly when I went into the fight. I just need to see somebody's fist or leg coming at my head, right? Which I could have done. But I was like, you know, I don't know if I want to like live my day to day to like this. Like this is kind of crazy. So I started, you know, asking about like, you know,

cataract surgery. So what they end up doing is they go in and they replace the lens in your eye. So what ended up happening is the poke hit me in the corner of the eye and I guess like the sharp wave of the fluid in my eye. It just kind of must have like buckled my lens a little bit. So there's a, there's a blurry spot in the lens in my eye. So like it's not it's not the focus or anything like that, right? So it's it's it'll, oh, always be a blurry spot. So with the surgery, it's super straightforward.

They go in, they cut your eye open, they replace the lens with an artificial one. And recovery is like a couple weeks, and bada bing, bada boom, you're good to go. But I was told that if I replaced, you know, got a lens replacement, that there was the possibility that some of the commissions wouldn't sanction me

because if that lens came loose from a strike, uh, that the lens could then cause more damage to the inside of my eye. And then I, you know, end up potentially being like, uh, Bisping, you know, and losing the eye. So, uh, I actually, I went down the rabbit hole, uh, you know,

thank you to, to Nick Lembo of, uh, you know, New Jersey, uh, athletic commission. Like, he helped me out a lot here. talking to doctors and stuff like that. And I mean, at this point, doctors are kind of like, they're super confident in the surgeries. I mean, when I started fighting, if you detached the retina, you were done.

Like, they could repair it, but you were never fighting again. And nowadays, there's quite a few fighters that have had, you know, retinal reattachments and come back at relatively in a short time span. um so like some some you know the doctors at that at this point kind of believe that like if i if something like that did happen right i get poked the lens comes loose or it poked or struck right just just getting hit could make the lens come loose potentially that they wouldn't even know if it was because of the surgery or not um so i was kind of like weighing it out like hey what do i do and then it was it was probably like five weeks after the fight.

Like it honestly, it felt like, like literally I woke up the one day and I was like, oh shit, things aren't blurry anymore. You know? And like, I think, I think it just took a little bit of time for my brain to kind of adapt and maybe switch a little bit of the focus onto my left eye as well. And, you know, like maybe my brain is kind of seeing around the blurry spot type stuff. Like, um, but it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not 2020 anymore.

But like, in order to not get sanctioned, you have to be pretty much blind. So, so I'm definitely not blind. Like, we're, we're working with like maybe like a 2040. Uh, so like, yeah, it's, it's, the, the, the injury is there. And I, you know, post, post, post fighting, I, uh, I'll probably get a, it's, it's, uh, I'll probably get fixed but for the time being it is it is it is it is fine it is absolutely fine yeah and uh here's the real question about that can you still aim with the gun or the bow uh yes yes once it kind of came back that was that you know that as messed up as it is that's that was like well i could see somebody

in standing in front of me but can i shoot a bow you know like that was like yeah that was That was something that I was honestly a little bit concerned about. You know, but yeah, fortunately, it's gotten good enough to where, you know, I can do those things. Well, that's obviously important, and I'm glad that's okay. Real quick, Jim, before I get you out of here, I know you're never, you've never been like a call-out guy or like, let's have this fight, that fight. I don't know. Did you see my tweet on Saturday night, the suggestion I threw out there for your next fight? because we were doing our post-fight show,

and we were talking about your win, and I said, listen, you know, it would actually, in a way, break my heart for this fight to happen because I have so much respect to you. And I love the legend fights. I love when we get to see two legends go out. And there's only so many guys in that category, right? Like, there's only so many veterans that have been around.

You said welterweight. And immediately, I was like, hmm. How about the all-time wins leader versus the all-time knockout leader, Jim Miller versus Matt Brown? Now, if you don't know, Matt Brown normally co-hosts my podcast with me. I know Matt has absolutely the utmost respect for you. You know, there's absolutely.

And when I said that, I was like, kind of breaks my heart to suggest this because that would be one where I would literally just have to sit in the middle and not like not react because I have so much tremendous respect for you and I've known you for so long. Matt does my podcast with him. I've known Matt for years. I kind of hate it. But I was also kind of like, that's kind of like the perfect fight in a way. Like that's the kind of fight I think you two should have. So I don't know. Again, I know you're not the call that guy, but in that's like, if that's suggestion, like, am I wrong?

I think that actually would be a really fun fight. I think it would be a fun fight. Yeah. You know, Matt is a, he's a, he's a absolute fan favorite. You know, I love watching him fight. You know, we fought on a local card here in Jersey together. When was that? 2006.

Was that Atlantic City? No. No. was some like some like school gym oh that was way before you know yeah yeah yeah uh yeah so like i i've known i've known about matt you know for for for quite some time yeah and uh that that'd be that'd be an awesome one that'd be an awesome one for 300 that somebody said that on twitter when i put it out there like that should be that should be the opening pay-per-view fight at ufc 300's you and matt brown i was like oh man that really is a good idea

I was like, damn, I wish I thought of that part of it, because I was like, really, that would be iconic for you guys to fight at UFC 300. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's it. That fight that I get excited. You know, and like there's something fun about, like, fighting up at 72.

You know, like, I mean, just the difference that I felt in, like, fight week for the, that last Seroni fight was, it was awesome. It was awesome to not really be worried about weight. And when I stepped into the octagon, I felt like, I mean, I felt like I had all the energy. You know, so like it kind of bugged me because it's like, man, like, why the hell do I cut to 55? Like, why do I put myself through this? Like, why do we do this shit?

But yeah, no, that'd be a fun one. I told it's funny. When Matt got matched up with Cort McGee, He's just like, dude, I love court. Great guy. We've been around each other. Like, really, really good dude. But, you know, it's just, it's a fight.

It's a business, but it's a great fight. And I said the same thing here. Like, when you fought Soroni, like, technically that was a rematch. You were getting, you know, revenge or whatever. But I know I talked to you before that fight. You're like, ah, you know, it's just a fun fight. And I like it. And you and Donald were totally cool with each other.

And, like, obviously it was his last fight. And, like, that if you're going to go out. And again, we don't know if UFC 300 is going to be the last one for you or matter for anybody. but like I was glad that Soroni got to go out against a guy like you versus just some other you know just some guy like I bring this up all the time I still get sad when I think about Shogun who has last fight against a guy named Ehor Poteri and that's nothing against him it's just like that's not like if he lost to Leo to Machita or or they brought back Little Nog or whatever what those iconic fights like okay that's the way you want to see Shogun he's going to go out let him go out like that um you know and again I don't know if you have you see 300 is going to be it but like you know You and Matt, like, that's like, again, there's only so many of those matchups you can make these days. That was one where I was like, man, that's just perfect. Like, I listen, tell Sean Shelby you can take the day off. I just did his job for him.

There we go. Yeah, I just think it's a great match. And again, I think it's just fun. Like, why not? Again, because you took Ludovic Klein, you took Jared Gordon, you took Jesse Butler. We know you're going to take, you know, whoever they throw at you. But, again, I think there's some iconoli. I thought for a little, I know he already got matched up.

I think he's fighting in July but I was like you did you and Tony Ferguson that's another one I was like there's a legend fight that would be a lot of fun if he's around like that's another one I think like again I know you're going to fight whoever but I'm like man those are kind of fights like there's iconic fights between the two legends yeah

yeah yeah no they're they're awesome like like fighting you know the the second seroni fight or like clay like when I fought clay man it might have been that it was

It was Jersey too. Yeah, it was like, man, I was, I was just viving. I was vibing walking to the octagon. Like, man, like, this is, this is awesome. Like, because we, I was like, we should have fought years ago. It's like, here we are now, you know. Yeah, so those fights are awesome. They're fun.

They're amazing to be a part of. So, yeah, hopefully I get a few more of those. And, you know, these young unknown kids, man, sometimes they make me nervous. Like, you know, I mean, Matt Brown makes me nervous, but in a different way, right? Because it's like, I know what he's going to do. Like, he's got to hit me really hard. So it's like, okay, you know, like, at least I know what to expect, you know.

But, yeah, it's, it's cool to be a part of those fights. And it's cool to, like, be associated with some of the guys that have been able to be associated with, you know, It's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. And I know you said many times the records, you're not one who really pays attention to things like that. But as I said, like, it's just, again, if you're going to do two or three, four more,

whatever the number ends up being. Like, again, you've already got the all-time wins record. And we know how hard that is. We just saw Andre Elowski, a guy who's a couple wins behind you. Like, it's not easy to do it at this level for that long. You know, he had a tough loss on Saturday night as well. Add a couple more on there. And like I said, if you're going to add a couple more onto the resume,

why not add guys like Tony Ferguson or Matt Brown or as you did with Donald Seroni. Again, I know you're going to take what they throw at you, but like I said, like you said, Clay Guido, I remember we talked when we did the interview with the Cleeguita fight. I was like, how have you guys not fought before? Like, how has this not happened? That's the kind of feeling I get.

Like, when Matt fought Carlos Condon, I was like, okay, like we don't need to say anything. This is just two legends fighting and whatever. And like those are the kind of fights I get up for. And like I think that would be awesome. Like, I don't know how many fights you have left, but like it would be cool if these last three or four, whatever the number ends up being,

would be those kind of fights. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I agree. Well, Jim, it is always a pleasure to catch up with you, man. Enjoy the victory. I know you're not a guy to sit around and celebrate and pat yourself on the back, but it was an incredible win man, 23-second knockout. I couldn't have gone any better. I'm sure we'll talk when the next one gets made.

Try not to stub your toe on the way out of the interview. And I appreciate the time, as always, man. I really do. And thank you for doing this. No problem. Thanks for having me on, buddy. Absolutely. Talk soon. Have it going.

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Caro, host of the Before the Chorus Podcast. We dive into the life experiences behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome, and I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals. I guess that was the idea was to try something personal and see what happened. And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts.

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