MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Joseph Benavidez On Decision to Retire, UFC 266, Should Nick Diaz Fight Again

Episode Date: September 28, 2021

Joseph Benavidez joins The Fighter vs. The Writer as co-host for episode 6 as he details his recent decision to retire from the sport of mixed martial arts, what led to him calling it a career and whether or not there's a chance he'll ever return to fight again. Benavidez was also front and center for UFC 266 this past weekend and he'll break down the fights from Saturday night including Robbie Lawler's win over Nick Diaz as well as Alexander Volkanovski defeating Brian Ortega and Valentina Shevchenko vanquishing yet another contender in Lauren Murphy. Follow Joseph Benavidez @JoeJitsu Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Back to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I am your host, Damon Martin, and today I am joined by one of my oldest friends in the industry. He is a legend in his own right. And he just recently retired. So he's living that, he's living that retirement life these days. Uh, the great Joseph Benavides joins me today. Joe, how are you? What's up, man? Doing very good, very good. Um, just relaxing like retired

people do. Am I, am, are we allowed to talk about your trade, your crazy travel schedule for this weekend? Are we allowed to talk about that publicly? Oh, yeah, yeah. I would, I would talk about it because, you know, it's really just bragging on the quote, the greatest wife ever. It's kind of her travel schedule, I guess. You know, I'm just tagging along as that trophy husband. Going from U.S.C. 266 on Saturday night, which pay-per-views in really late.

They're, you know, super late at night when you get done working. And obviously, Megan was working the events. And then flying to Jacksonville to cover the NFL on Fox, of course, her other gig. Man, that's insane. Like, I know how tired I am after cover. a fight for a day. I don't want to do anything on Sunday, much less Stan is a sideline reporter for the NFL. So yeah, she definitely earns that quote status. Yeah, dude, honestly, it was I never

doubted her for a second, but obviously, you know, like, oh my God, are you all right? What can I do all that? And like, I was just happy to, you know, tag along and be here with her, watch her. I'm obviously, like, so proud. I honestly feel like it's an unprecedented move what she did. you know, for one, those UFC pay-per-views, like, you know, like, those are 15-hour days when you have to get there set up for media, you know, with her job, with rehearsals and everything. But even just the week of a pay-per-view is crazy. So she was there that day doing a Q&A in the fan village before, then to rehearsals, then her 12-hour day with the UFC, you know, and then we literally sprinted out the arena, you know, sped on the crazy. route to the airport, sprinted to the gate, you know, slept two hours on the plane, then she's on the sidelines, ready to go killing it for another major sport on another network. And that's honestly what I think is amazing.

It's like two separate things, you know, two separate relationships, both major sports. And yeah, so when we finally crashed out after this, you know, it was a 16-hour slumber. But like I said, I'm just so proud of her. like obviously I'm her husband so I'm a brag but I'm like no one else can do what you're doing no one else has and I was just I was just amazed so I'm kicking it man but yeah it was a it's been a great time absolutely well Joe before we get in we're going to talk about UFC 266 from this past weekend of course two crazy title fights and the return of Nick Diaz against Robbie Ola we're going to get all into that but but of course having you on today we wanted to talk about you know

your retirement your announcement that you're retiring from the sport I know we talked briefly right as the announcement happened but of course i wanted to have you on the show to talk about everything so uh kind of give kind of give me a sense like you know how this all came about you seem pretty resigned in the decision didn't seem like it was like a spur of the moment thing or you know you know whatever but kind of walk me through the the decision to retire well honestly this goes all the way back i would say after my last fight i knew i wasn't going to fight but to be honest um um this goes all the way back to before my last fight before my fight with askar um i actually wanted that

to be my last fight um how i knew that was going to be my last fight like through training through my camp you know the walkout and everything like like i changed my walkout song even and it wasn't like an intentional like retirement song or anything but it was kind of like oh like you kind of spoke to It was a song I always wanted to walk out to, Billy Joel, the entertainer. And, yeah, I, like, knew all through. And, like, after the fight, I really knew it was the right choice because the way I kind of, like, felt in there, I didn't want to feel like that again.

And the competitor in me was kind of like, oh, no, like, you know, the feeling being, like, I was, I'd never been scared, honestly, in a fight in my life, no matter what I was doing, who was fighting, how big it was. and I wasn't necessarily scared of Askaroff or anything. You know, he's not like an intimidating guy. I mean, you know, I fought everybody, but I was like scared to lose. And I've never felt that before.

Like, you know, I let it all out. And, you know, if that ends in a loss, it does. But I know, like, I gave it everything. And I have, like, nothing left. And I take the chances. But I was almost, like, so scared to lose that, like, I didn't try and win. You know, it makes sense. It takes like the possibility of losing, you know, to try to win, but I was just like getting through it.

You know what I mean? Like almost like couldn't wait for it to end. And like I've never had a problem like letting loose and scrambling and trying hard and, you know, doing all that stuff. Like giving my all out there. So I was just kind of like, man, like my decision, my mind was right. You know, the reason I wanted that to be my last fight, like I had fight offers before that. but Ascar was one of those guys is like the crazy thing with the like I've been around this division since the beginning so it's like I fight a guy I had like a relationship

one on the ultimate fighter or like the second even wave of that is guys that like used to watch me in high school like with their dad or like look up to me so it's just kind of like askar was the one guy for one who's the highest ranked and I only want to fight the best guys they didn't have a fight, but he was also the one that was like, all right, at least he's a little older. There's no connection. There's no, like, you know, anything. And I honestly wanted to win that fight and go out on top.

You know, in this sport, nothing never goes as planned. You know, you can't plan anything in this sport. But it was like, look, I want to go out, beating an undefeated best guy in the world and have nothing else to prove. I lost, and but I feel the same way. I was like, I still have nothing to prove. Like, that was my last fight. And if anything, it kind of helped me, you know, and I was glad I came out safe because, and I don't

have to keep dragging on a career for money or for anything. Like I just talked about my wife earlier. Like I don't have any pressure, you know, I had a good career, was able to save money. I don't have any pressure to stay around and do it. So, yeah, man, that's, I guess, the basis of it. Yeah. I had a conversation with Michael Bisping a couple of weeks ago. We were talking about all the things he's been doing since he retired.

And, you know, he basically, you know, more or less said, you know, he knew the, the horror stories of fighters who just don't know when to walk away. And we've seen, I mean, listen, unfortunately, there's a cautionary tale time and times again where, you know, guys or girls, you know, that are greats, all-time greats. They just, they don't want to walk away. And I get it. There's a competitive thing there. It doesn't even go into money all the time.

Sometimes it's just about money. But other times it's just a competitive thing where they just don't want to lose that feeling. That it's hard to walk away with that feeling of being in the cage and walk into the octagon, those kind of things. And he just said at some point, you have to walk away and know you're done. done, you're leaving as a top five, you know, flyweight in the world. You're not leaving off of, you know, eight losses in a row or you're suffering through

some really bad knockouts or anything like that. Like, was that important to you to walk away on your own terms, not when people are saying, man, I really hope Joe doesn't fight a game. Because unfortunately, we've had those conversations with other fighters, and it's sad, and I hate having those conversations. Sorry, I just, like, was going hard on my nose, and I was so comfortable, Damon, that I didn't really think about the fact that I had my. thumb all the way up my nose.

So I'm sorry for the viewers. But we're friends. So I can do that in front of Damon, but you guys are all my friends now too, apparently, because you saw me pick my nose. But no, yeah, it actually was very important.

And you know what? It's a weird thing because, you know, look, like some fighters, like, are happy to be in the UFC, some happy to be in the top 10. You know, like, that's a goal for people.

To me, I'm lucky. Like, I can fight in the top 10 for years to come. Do I want to? like go fight like I said like a guy I coached on the ultimate fighter or a guy that you know used to watch me with his dad after high school like it doesn't really you know motivate me to fight because this has always been a thing that it was fun to me you know what I mean it was never felt like a job and then you know the other goal was to be the best that didn't happen so it was

like all right it's going to be a job like when I wrote down my list of wise it was literally just like a paycheck which you know isn't wasn't the most important thing to me and just yeah it's sad because it is you know to some people and sometimes you see him drag it out too long um so yeah it was just important to me to um to be able to walk away on my own turn on my own terms you know still knowing i can compete knowing i feel fine to compete in the top 10 in the world but um yeah i think like i said a lot of that happens because it happened because you know i had a good career. You know, I have a sugar mama or boss wife or whatever, which is great, you know, so I didn't have the pressure to do that. And I can just kind of get out and find something else

I love with no real pressure to do, you know, anything rush into teaching privates or a warehouse job or anything like that. But yeah, it was always just something I want to do. Like I said, my grand master plan was to go out on a win, you know, but it's almost like losing. not easier to go out on because you still have to lose, but it's kind of like, well, at least that makes sense. Like, you know, like I was out on a loss or whatever. Like, I'm not going to be, you know, do this part and, you know, be the best. So, oh, yeah, it kind of is time to go. But yeah, I mean, it's hard. Like, this sport's tough because the only way to, like, know you shouldn't fight anymore is to, like, get beat up. And that's tough. It's not like an artist or a singer songwriter that's like,

oh, my creativity is not there anymore. Right. Might is like not going to sing anymore. No, like you have to get beat up. So, you know, I'm glad I got out pretty good. And it wasn't like a thing where people were like, oh, no, you got knocked out five times or anything like that. So yeah, man, like I said, it was important just to walk away.

I have a ton of other interests that I want to follow. And I was like, well, I can't really follow those until I'm done. done and you know you just got to know when it's time to go and you know uh i'd been feeling it for a while and it was just just that that time yeah it feels like and we and again we also know the other side of this is you know uh we kind of joke about it but it is also a real thing about the quote unquote you know mima retirements you know you're only retired until your next fight offer because that seems to be you know what happens but i told a couple people when when when the announcement was made i said i feel like joe's one of those guys who will stay retired like

I feel like you're not the kind of guy who's going to make the announcement and then suddenly change your mind six months from now. Like it feels like that's something you would have really thought about because I know that's how, you know, I know that's how you're like, I don't see you being the guy that's like six months from now. They're going to offer you a fight. You're like, you know what, I'll just come back. Like, I feel like if you're retired, you're a guy who knew you're retiring and you made that decision. No, yeah, you're absolutely right. Because even this weekend at the fights and everything, people are asking you, well, you didn't like get out of the sotapool or anything. Like, you could still fight if you want or you should go do this.

you should go make money with Triller and just like do it. But the thing is, is like I've actually known I was going to be retired. Like I just said for a while. So I thought all this through like basically after my last fight, you know, I lost. And I wasn't going to go, hey, I'm retired because not that it would have been emotional because I even knew before, but I still gave it time. I was just kind of like, all right, I'm going to give it time. Like, what if in a month I train and I'm just like, oh my God, like I missed this. It's still in my, because it's a thing I always did with passion, you know, fighting, something

that I love. So I was like, oh, what if I start training? I'm like, oh, let's, let's gear up for another one or whatever. And two months had passed since my last fight. And I didn't miss training at all. I hadn't trained at all. I didn't miss training. I'm like, well, that's what it takes to fight.

I don't miss training. Like, I'm not going to miss fighting and didn't even want to go in the gym. I still actually haven't gone in the gym since my last fight, which is crazy. that was six, seven months ago. I've worked out a little bit, not a lot. But like I still haven't gone in the gym, and that was kind of my tell. I was like, well, if I don't want to go train

and I don't even miss training, like I'm not going to miss fighting. So this is something, I shared it, baby. Shared it with you. Hello? Damon? Yep, I'm still here. Oh, you're back?

All right, something happened. Yeah, so, yeah, like I thought that through. I let these like six months since my last fight, like really, you know, help me with the decision and see if I missed it. I'd go to fights. I've been going to fights. I'd been thinking about going to the gym. I didn't want to do any of it. You know, actually, now when I go to fights, like, I used to always watch fights and be like, oh, my God, like, this isn't safe.

This is crazy. But I would still have this weird, like, excitement that, like, it's so crazy, like, I want to fight now. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this is, you know what I mean? like I would know like this is a crazy thing but like I love that feeling also of that unknown like danger and excitement of just everything about like a live fight but now when I go to a live fight I just watch it and I'm kind of like like wow that's like not me anymore like I can't even picture myself fighting so you know it's been like a slow process and when people ask me like

well wouldn't you know like even other fighters I was like everyone's different but like it was just a slow process you know like think about it before. the fight you fight and you kind of like it kind of um drives the point home and then obviously you still want to let it go and then um like basically i didn't miss really anything about it like i miss like the people i hang out to and talk to it fights and all that kind of stuff and uh i've been getting to do that so so yeah it was something well thought through you won't see me making another return or anything weird uh last thing i'll talk about her retirement before we talk about uh UFC 266, I spoke to

four or five days ago, I spoke to Demetrius Johnson, who was kind of like your greatest rival in a way. You guys kind of defined the flyway division for years, you know, is the two of you. And Demetrius had, I wish I had the audio, I just play it for you right now, but he just said nothing, but he had such great things to say about you,

considers you a friend. You know, you guys, when we talked, like he didn't talk about the fights. He said, oh yeah, we went to Coldplay together. We did this, we did that. Like, just had, like, fun with you. And, and the general, response from other fighters and people in the

industry is oh man Joe is such a good guy he had such a great career he's this and that do you feel like that might be the biggest legacy you're leaning behind is that people really did love you like people respected you and loved you and you left like there's no there was no controversy with Joseph Benavides meaning like you know you didn't you didn't pop for steroids

or you didn't do you didn't do dirty things in the cage or you were just like a good dude and I know that sounds funny to say that but like you have a good reputation you're leaving and retiring with one of the best reputations I've ever seen anybody having this sport. Yeah, that's a nice thing.

Yeah, going back to DJ, I'll just say, you know, love that guy. You know, even though we are rivals, there's always, like, so much out of, like, a love and challenging. Like, you make me a better person because he's a great person as well. But you, like, make me, you know, like, he's a good example for everything, for his family, for being a fighter. And then even just want to get into the actual finding, you know, one of the greatest of all times. So he's always someone I could look at and take inspiration from. And the fact he was a rival, and we got to mix it up to times and build this division together. I have a part in that was amazing.

So like Demetrius, like I love that guy forever. You know, we're connected in that way. Really everyone I fight in a way, you know, you just build this love for him. Like Henry Sohudo, you know, like we didn't like each other before the fight. But like the bell rang and we had gone through what we gone through, which was the freaking and, you know, war of two people in their prime. And I was like, I love this guy. And, like, I'll love him forever now, even though, like, if I don't want to go bowling with him.

Like, I don't like him. Like, I love him. But anyway, yeah, the legacy thing is great. Like, that is important to me because at the end of the day, like, we're all humans and we're all more than fighters. Like, it's great to be looked at what I do. But everyone does something, you know, how does the people they do that stuff with think about them? how do this he make them fill anything like that that's great you know legacy has always been kind of weird for me because to me legacies like you do everything you want like you have to do

anyway but like once you're done like that's your legacy like you can't change it in a in a way I just think like you have no control of your legacy because it's what people think and what people say you know so you're like lucky when it's good and you're lucky you had a good career but it's just kind of, it's kind of like a factual thing, you know, like, all right, well, that's what people are going to think about me. Oh, well, what's your legacy? Well, that's what I did. So it kind of has to be my legacy. And looking back and seeing that as a part, like, like, I hesitated retiring because I, like, wasn't ready to, like, do so many interviews and have these people say this. And I didn't want to see what people said. You know, I don't want to people,

I didn't know what people were going to say about me, you know, once it was done. And I don't want to do interviews and have all this attention, have to make a post. And that's a reason I held it off for a while. But then once I did actually the interviews, the like cathartic, like experience of getting it all out are great. But all the comments and praise coming in, the thing I kind of like was scared of and wanted to avoid and was uncomfortable with have honestly been the best most rewarding. parts and those are the parts that make me emotional is you know seeing what other people say and seeing just how nice they've been and how people look at me because in a way like you don't know what people are going to like you're doing the thing so you don't know what people are saying or

people are doing or people are thinking you know you're always just on to the next thing but to actually look back and see you know the professionals and the peers and the fans and anyone I interact with say good things um you know on top of being a good fighter like it's so it's amazing and like like i said that's the stuff that got me emotional um was right when the stuff started pouring in like i thought i was just really good at walking away from things and i did i didn't think about it even megan's always like you can always just make big decisions and like not care about him not think about him and just walk away from him like yep and then i thought i was really like all right well, I have to announce this and it's just going to be an easy thing.

But once the first story started coming in, I just started crying, you know, and like it wasn't like a sad thing. It was out of happiness. And like I was proud. Like I'm super proud to look back and see what I did, not even like professionally, but the stuff we were talking about, how people look at me as a person. And yeah, man, it's been all like a positive thing. And it's funny because when you retire, like even this week, seeing a lot of people.

I don't think they know how to like navigate the situation. Like do I say congratulations? Like I'm sorry you had to retire. How do you take in it? But like it's such a happy thing. It's such a joyous thing. It's like not an end. It's a beginning.

And it's something I can look back and be proud on, which I think everyone who starts this sports and retire wants to look back and be proud and feel like they did something and maybe affected some people in a positive way. And hopefully just left the sport a better place. Absolutely. Well, in case my opinion, hasn't been crystal clear over the years, you're a freaking legend. So I'll just throw that out there because it's the truth. Thanks, brother.

Let's talk another point of our show. This show, of course, is where we talk about other topics, which is, you know, UFC 266. You were there at the event. Crazy, crazy event, crazy night of fights. I rated it an A-plus. I thought it was an amazing card. Like one of my, honestly, one of the best cards I've seen in recent history. It was just amazing from the title fights to Robbie Lawler, Nick Diaz, to, you know, Marab, you know, having that crazy comeback.

Jessica Andros go out of there doing her thing. Like, I don't know, you tell me, you were in the arena. How was the energy there? Because it was, it was a crazy good event. Is this okay for the view? Yep, you're good. Okay, cool. Man, it was, it was amazing.

For one, everyone's so feigning for the live sporting events. and there's nothing like a live fight. You know, I think we've been too back at the T-Mobile, a few other live ones, and every live one is just like delivered like crazy. But every live event was special. But yeah, this one was just beautiful. Like I said, you know, you had all the people there

from International Fight Weeks, so you're watching with all your peers and your other peers are just like putting on these crazy amazing fights. It was, yeah, I mean, it was a special night, like, you know, from those late prelims. that's kind of when I got down into the arena part of it and started feeling all the energy like the Marab Marais fight was insane Marab's a freaking rope I don't know he's insane the main card was all the way through the mythical part of Nate Diaz like the unbelievable

part about Nick Diaz about him walking down you know after six years like he's just this mythical creature. And in a way, like with all the stuff going on during the fight week and all the interviews, like, and the move up in the wait class, like, you never thought you'd see that again after six years of waiting. But then when the week came, it was kind of like, is this even going to happen? Is this going to get to the fight? Like, after him, after him being so raw on his interviews and knowing how he actually

feels about fighting, that elevated the experience of watching him fight to me. Because you know what's in his head. like he poured it out as raw as he could and just to know like he still went in there and put on the performance he did like that guy was made to fight and it's just crazy when you see guys like that is like that's what they do like he watches interviews and he's like this is what I do like there's nothing else to me even though I don't want to do it like I have to but like there's there's still like this brightness in that it's like he has to he has to has to and like he was just made to do it and you could see him still kind of having fun and just how

he looked better than ever and then if I'm not giving robbery enough credit like like I think the spotlight was so on Nick Diaz coming back and he put out that performance and had those interviews and no one knew how he's going to make it and how he's going to fight and then to put on that but like rock the person in front of him Robbie Lawler and how he was fighting and that guy's career and for him to still be doing what he does after what like 17 years since their last fight like that was just a whole other experience is thinking like oh and seeing Robbie Lawler still doing it you know after all these years like that was someone I watched on like UFC you know BHSs you know like a young ruthless Robbie Lawler and he's still

just as ruthless after all these years looking better against an amazing Nick Diaz like that fight was crazy. That felt like round of the year that first round. And like I said, I don't know if it was kind of the mythical hype around it. Seen two legends just stand in a phone booth and fight. So I don't know how it was on TV. But in the arena, that felt like it was the round of the year. Like everybody was just in disbelief, like silent, the whole fight watching. It was amazing. To see the champion like Valentina, always, you know, incredible just to witness greatness and then the main event was like once again

I don't know how it was on TV but watching it live it felt like it felt like something special like it was a fight of the year type of type of fight we were watching absolutely absolutely let me let's go back to Nick Diaz because

you know Nick you know was so you mentioned so raw and so honest all the way leading up to the fight saying things like you know I don't like fighting I don't know why I do this but I'm kind of I kind of, you know, kind of have to do this, almost like this is what he was born to do, but he doesn't like doing it. But just like the really raw emotion of it and then going in there.

And, you know, for anyone, it was so, like, we're so in such a social media age now where somebody put out a little clip of him shadow boxing from the UFC promo videos they do backstage with you guys before the fight when they record the video for the pay-per-view. And everyone's like, oh, my God, I'm so worried for Nick because of shadow boxing footage and I about lost my mind. He goes out there and was it the greatest, Nick Diaz performance ever, no, because he ended up losing, but I thought he looked

good. He threw 300 freaking strikes in just over, just over two rounds, which is insane. And then I think personally, I think Robbie, and Robbie spoke up this afterwards, Robbie was more motivated to go out there. Robbie, we got to be honest, Robbie was all four losses in a row, and Robbie looked

listless in his last couple of fights. He just looked weird. He didn't really seem like super enthusiastic about the Covington or the Neil Magny fight. He just didn't seem like himself. And he came out there guns blazing. He came out there looking for a knockout. He came out there like the old school Robbie Lawler.

Nick Diaz brought that out of him. I don't know. It was an amazing fight. And listen, if Nick doesn't ever fight again, the guy goes down, you know, as a legend, amazing fighter. And if he does want to fight again, I'll absolutely watch it. Because I don't think we saw a guy who couldn't fight. We just saw a guy who got beat by a better fighter on Saturday night. Yeah.

And I think he brought out the best than Robbie. like Robbie was obviously motivated, but it was crazy to see that ruthless, violent Robbie Lawler back. And Nick Diaz brought out the best of him with that phone boost style, you know, stand here and fight. And Robbie will welcome that any time. But yeah, I don't know. Sorry, what was the question where we left on? Just about Nick. I mean, I don't think, like, I think Robbie looked great.

And I don't think Nick look bad. Like I said, Nick wants to fight again. I'll watch. yeah of course of course and you know there's always great matchets out there for nick diaz he's a legend i think anyone would be happy to watch him all the time if you know that's something that he um is willing to do but yeah i think the interviews kind of like shrouded all that made people be like oh well like i hope he doesn't have to fight but i mean i don't know how he feels about it but it looked like he was enjoying himself at least and he says hey i'm like this every fight but i have fun out

there and I think every fighter which could relate to that you know I think GSP came out and said something and you know he was like this is one of the best to ever do it and he said like hey like those feelings aren't far off he's just being real with them like and I think a lot of fighters do you know I mean it's a scary thing you know the consequences are you know grave and it's just there's a lot of stuff that goes into it you know but you have to be confident you're going out to fight another person, you don't have time to show those vulnerabilities or you can't show those vulnerabilities not only to the fans, but like to the guy that's trying to, you know, kill you across the ring. So, you know, there was a lot put into that and it was very real.

And, you know, like I said, I'm glad he had fun out there. If he wants to do it again, it's up to him. But, you know, like, I'll watch 100%. Yeah. Now, the co-main event, watching Valentina Shichinko, you know, style on another top contender. You know, I said this in my post-fight column. I said, there's only two things that are going to slow her down. One is complacency, which I don't see her getting. I don't think she's going to suddenly just lose interest in defending her title. And I said, the only thing that's going to hurt her is that, you know,

she gets a little bit of that, you know, a little bit of that syndrome where fighters are so dominant that people kind of maybe lose interest a little bit, kind of like what Anderson Silva, when he was on his run, even John Jones to a certain point, like he was on such an incredible run you just kind of go into the fights assuming he's going to win and maybe there's a little bit of that but none of that's valentina's fault but it's kind of crazy like how dominant she's been and and again the only person who's even you know come close to beating her in the ufc was amanda nunes in those two fights um valentine is amazing and and she's so she's so good like it's and it's i it feels like i'm insulting the other flyways i'm not doing that but but in all honestly it feels like the gap between her

and everybody else in her division is like Grand Canyon wide right now. Yeah, it's hard. I don't know who she said she wanted to, if she has an opponent picked out after. Somebody in this room with me maybe interviewed her, but I don't know if she said she wanted to fight somebody else after if there's anybody. She said it's not up to her. She's ready to fight anyone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just, because I don't see it. So I was actually interested in that question. Like, who does she see herself? because like I think she's obviously always going to prepare and take every challenge seriously, but like she has to know like there's not a fight out there or her that's like that interesting or looks like it could be a challenge.

You know what I mean? And that's what's just crazy about it. That's like she's the only person like that. I mean, well, maybe Amanda Nunes in a way too. But yeah, it's just crazy to think like there's not even a person that like, sounds interesting at the moment that she could fight. And, you know, I don't, she's not the type that looks like she lets anything go or her head.

She looks like she's confident in her abilities and she knows that. But she looks like somebody that is happy and, like, proud to prove, like, you know, her confidence is, is right. So I don't ever see her getting tired. I don't mean, I don't know. It's just going to take somebody else to come along that is a her or a, or, you know, you see these fighters, you know, girl fighters that come along that are like made to fight and born to fight and bred to fight. And they still don't really match up to her.

But, you know, you see, like, it's going to take an Amanda Nunes. You know, it's going to take a, you know, Yawanna Janjashik, you know, like something of that. And like, those are very, very few far between that you see, you know, a fighter like that. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to do. But, you know, once again, like, it's just great also to watch the greatness even sometimes when it's not competitive. Like, it's great to just witness the greatness of her. And, yeah, we'll see what's next.

And the last one, of course, was the featherweight title fight where Alexander Volcanowski defended his title. Oh, my God. What a crazy fight. That third round was insane. and one thing I wanted to bring up and mention, and I said this a lot last week was, you know, Alexander had faced a lot. None of it's his fault. He beat Max Holloway twice. Max is an extremely likable champion, very popular champion.

And the second fight was, again, a bit controversial, very close split decision. I'll be honest, I scored it for Max, but I take nothing away from Alexander. But he's kind of been living under that cloud of like the Max Holloway division. I think this fight really finally helped him separate himself a little bit because, man, he had to go do some adversity in this fight. Brian Ortega brought it to him, and he had to, I mean, it was incredible. And I feel like this is the fight. Weirdly, like, even though he has two wins over Max Holloway, I'd be like, this is the

wind that's going to help define Alexander Volcanowski as the best featherweight in the sport. Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. And, yeah, that's crazy because you think, you know, there's controversy in the sport. the max fights, which I didn't feel there was really a controversy in the first one after watching. No, I didn't do that. I love Max. Like, Max is my favorite fighter to watch. Um, love him as a person. You know, obviously, Volcanowski is a very likable person too, but like I, like, I, like, have a relationship and like love Max. And I was like, well, he lost that first fight. Maybe, you know, every, every round, if not, you know, one, one. The second fight was a little closer. Um, but you still

got to give it to him. But like you said, with that kind of shrouded over the victories and then him coming out on this one, like as a, like, it's all about the fans, you know, and them loving what you do. Max is so likable that if you beat him, oh, no way, you know, if you beat him in a controversy, oh, they even, you know, shun him more because Max is that just lovable person. But when you go out and do something like this that the fans are going to love win or lose, um, that's when, you know, people, that's when you're going to blow up. and people are going to respect everything you did in that fight, but also everything you've done and look at him as like,

oh, wow, this guy is legit. He comes to fight because, you know, he was so tactical in those max fights, and I think he showed, like, the heart and all the grit and fighter heart in this fight. I mean, on top of Ortega also, like, we can't even mention the heart that guy has, is incredible.

So, yeah, but, like, I don't know. I think you said it spot on. Like, this is the fight. is going to be like Volkanoski is the world champion as if like beating max and everyone he did before and 20 you know fight win streak wasn't enough to prove you're the best in the world like it's funny like a close war but a fan friendly war like that's what's going to finally make people say wow this guy is legit like best in the world like can't wait to see him fight again so that's what it takes sometimes you know the sport's crazy but i'm glad that's what

it took because I was there to witness it. And like again, I don't know as a media member and watching on TV, like I think every fight's so great. And sometimes like fights are so good live and you don't really realize what's happening. But like is that in discussion like fight of the year? Oh, it's got to be. I mean it's like yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's got to be. Yeah. I haven't I haven't gone back and looked at all the rest of the fights this year just because I'm living in recency bias. and I'm living in the prisoner of the moment, but I do believe that right now would probably be my pick for fight of the year.

Round of the year. It's so crazy, too, because earlier in the night, I would have said Marab and Marlon, that first round was going to be round of the year. When Marlon had him hurt almost down, and then Marab comes back and almost finishes him. I was like, oh my God, this is the greatest round I've ever seen. And then, you know, an hour later,

here's round three between Volcanowski and Ortega, which was incredible round. It's like, this is insane. Like this is why these kind of fights, this kind of event is why I love this sport. Like this just makes me fall in love with the sport all over again because like that card was so freaking good that it was just everything was great. The prelims were great. The main car was amazing.

The main event was amazing. Like that's one of those events like we'll be talking about, you know, a year from now. We'll still be thinking about UFC 266. Oh yeah. And it's great when everything comes together like that. You have this live event. you have international fight week. People come from around the world to watch it.

There's all this buildup of the ultimate fighter. And then it lives up to the hype. Like that always makes it so much more amazing. I actually didn't see anything about the bonuses. But like how do you even work that out? Who got them? Like what happened? Like did they make them bigger because they should have?

Like what happened? It was Volcanowski and Ortega got fired the night. I believe, I'm not mistaken. It was Marab and Chris Dachas got the performance bonuses. Dachas for his knockout over Shamil, Abderakimov, and then Marlon Mara's win over Marlon Maris. I believe those are the bonuses. I know Volcanozzi and Ortega got by the 90s.

They kept him at 50 as well. They kept 50, 50 grand, I believe, yeah. Dude. That's one of those cards where you really hope Dana is just like just busting out the checkbook because there were so many like, Androge Endrage finishing Finnshing Cynthia Calvillo

was ridiculous Robbie finishing Nick was ridiculous Dan Hooker just for traveling halfway around the world even make his fight was ridiculous and Nazrat for that matter

they put on a show you know Matthew Simmelzberg with a 15 second knockout in the early part of the car like it was just ridiculous it was a ridiculous night of fights yeah dude that was crazy I was just like wow

like I don't know how these bonus going to work I never caught up you know because I jumped on a red eye and kind of do that. But yeah, man, that was that was a special night. Like, again, like, you see it and you hear people say it all the time, but like you just said it best, and there's no other way to say it. It's like, those are the nights that make you like, you know, love the sport even more. Yeah. Before I let you go, Joe, you know, you're always a

busy guy with a lot of different endeavors. Now you actually have a little bit of, you know, what I'll say is downtime, not really downtime, but you actually have a little bit downtime. So what are the next moves for you. Have you had any thoughts? Do you get to break any news about what's going to be next for you, what you're going to be doing? Not really news because it's kind of like, like I said, like I don't have pressure like to have to just jump in to do something. You know, I wish I, like, I mean, like if I did, I could say, hey, you know, I'm going to take on an assistant coaching job in Vegas or, you know, I'll be opening my own gym or anything like that. But it's like, I'm not really like at that point where I have to jump in and do something, you know,

like fighting is something I made an amazing life and career out of, but it was something that I, that it was a passion at first, you know, and it became this and it made me happy and it challenged me every day. So that's, that's all I want to do, man. And coming to this like with my wife and, you know, how she's working and it's just like,

just like, I don't care what you do. Like, just whatever makes you happy, honestly. So when she asked me, like, what would you want to do if there was anything in the world? And I was like, honestly, nothing. And then she's like, really? And I was like, yeah, like, if all our bills and everything is good, like, look, I was lucky I had a great career. I'm lucky, you know, I was able to be good with my money. I'm lucky I was able to make good investments that, like, I could live on.

like it's fine. But I was like, I would just do nothing and just like do whatever I want, wake up and like sit by the pool, listen to an album, watch a movie, and if I feel like doing something that day, do it. But then I did nothing for like probably two months. And I was just, I hated myself. Like I was so bored. I was literally like there's nothing else I can listen to or watch.

I hate everything. Like there's no more. I can't get any more tan. And I like can't swim another lap. Like please Lord like give me something to do. So that's when I got the book out. And I was like, all right, this is, you know, the thing with me like you mentioned. Like the hard thing is I have so many interests.

So to narrow all those interests down into something that is almost like, you know, that people are going to care about and be, you know, a business in whatever way or just a little more like digestible is a whole other thing. So I got there and I kind of wrote everything down. was just like, all right, these are things I can work on right away. You know, these are things that like, oh, these are like long-term, like dreams, but like something that like we can work towards. This is stuff I can get in the works for, have to talk to some people, have to make some connections, you know, hustle, whatever it may be.

And just kind of figure that out. But there was a ton of things, man, wearing from like just printing art to still doing stuff within the sport, you know, not necessarily coaching or analyzing or anything, but other little things they have to do with the sport that I think I can add value in a way. Like my perspective as a fighter and just my perspective as a person could add value to the sport in other ways. So, you know, I have meetings with departments and stuff about how I can help with that, just my own art stuff, my own interests as far as like movies, music, travel, all that

kind of stuff goes. And then like long term like businesses to actually run that I'm interested in that have nothing to do with a jujitsu gym or a fight gym or anything. So yeah, man, it's just finding what makes me happy. And that's kind of what it is and turning that passion into something like I do, like I did with fighting. So yeah, that's really the best I can explain it. No, I totally get it.

I totally get it. Well, I know what you're going to be doing in November that I need to hear about because there's a movie coming out in November by a guy that, I turned you on to, a guy by the name of Jim Cummings. He did The Wolf of Snow Hollow. The Beta Test. The Beta Test coming out November. I got to hear your thoughts.

I'm so excited this movie's coming out. I know you're going to go see it. I know I'm going to go see it. I'm very interested to hear your review when you see that one. Bro, I'm so pumped about that movie. Dude, like, how I said I did nothing for two months. Like, so since those two months took place, I was like, all right, I got to do something. Even if it was just like waking up and, like,

going to an internship or a class or like something to learn like I have to do something. So I haven't watched movies like really in like two months a lot. Like I still watch TV because that's what me and my wife do. And we watch TV. You know, we have some shows and stuff that we do. But like I haven't sat down and watched movie because I was like like all I did was sit for like months like since my fight. So anyway. But when the later of the year starts getting around, you get excited for these movies.

to come out. Beta test is one. I can't wait to see that with Jim Cummings. Like Thunder Road is still one of like the movies I'll recommend to anyone that asks because I feel it is such in its own universe of movies as far as, and I love like a write, written, directed, acted movie by anyone. And Jim Cummings is like the best, most exciting person doing it out there right now. He's one of the most exciting directors in general right now in movies. His whole style. his whole attitude and what he's doing. Like he's an exciting, exciting voice in cinema, just, you know, two movies being the third in.

But the trailer for Paul Thomas Anderson, a legend of the game. I was just about to say that. A legend of the game. That just came out today. And I've already watched the trailer like five times. And it's literally taking over my mind, like, all day. Like, I can't stop thinking about it,

talking about it. I'm so excited for any Paul Thomas and Thomas Anderson movie for him to be working with Bradley Cooper. Amazing. But the thing that excites me about that is he has two non-actors. Non-actors, but names

in the leads. So he's using Philip Seymour Hoffman's son, Cooper Hoffman, who's never acted before as a lead. And then Alana Heim from the band Heim, which I love. and I just saw in concert a week ago. They're the two leads, and neither of them have acted.

It's just amazing, but they both, you know, like people know Haim from Haim, and they're a Los Angeles band, so it makes sense. But the Haim PTA crossover is amazing to me, and then it's like, oh, my God, but then the Philip Seymour Hoffman's son in a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, who, you know, his father worked with PTA so many

to see them work together. I mean, I'm sure he's been on set when his dad was working in a PTA movie and like stuff when you can look deeper into that like that touched my heart and then I'll just want to say one more thing about I don't know what's better and it's a small thing but um Hime the band has an Instagram account right and they post the PTA trailer because one of the sisters is in the movie and it's like coming soon and I was like this is amazing that Hime the band is posting a PTA trailer because one of the sisters is in the movie and one of the sisters is in the movie.

But the best thing almost to me about it is, you know how it shows like, liked by? Yeah. Like the post is liked by. And it was liked by Tim Robinson, who's like my hero and is taking over my life for like two years with his sketch comedy series. I think you should leave. And he liked it.

So like my mind just exploded, like after that. I was like, I'm the band, Paul Thomas Anderson, and then Tim Robinson, like, knows about both of this happening and follows the Hymes sisters. Like I was like and likes, I was just like, dude, this is too much greatness for me. What's happening? But anyway, that's it. All the worlds are colliding. Colliding, bro.

And I was just like, this is too much. And it was just such an unexpected crossover. Like, I was just like, oh, my God. I'm going to, I'm going to like cry tears of joy down by the ocean later. Yeah, it's funny. I was just about to bring up the PTA trailer. I knew you'd be excited about that. Talk about timing that we're doing an interview on the day that the PTA trailer comes out.

Amazing. Well, Joe, I appreciate you doing this today. I'm going to let you get back to your day. Make sure to say hello to the quote for me. I know she's around there somewhere. Yeah. And obviously, thank you for doing this. I really do appreciate it.

I'm sure we'll have you back on in the near future. But thank you for this. Please. And let's catch up again soon, okay? dude let's get on and talk about um if you ever have an episode we want to wrap up uh anything movies of the year um albums of the year i try to keep up with but you know um have a few i like um if any award shows watch them all um Oscars Oscar predict like if you ever have a an episode uh any episode where you want to talk about some shit i got a hot take on everything

think so you know i feel like i feel like the i feel like the oscar 2022 preview is going to be like our jam i feel like that's going to be like the full on like jam we're just going to do a full on prediction episode for that one and talk about movies of the year i feel like that's just going to happen that would be great we have to yeah movie wreck any anything bro so yeah i'm always pumped to talk to you man you're one of the great guys and um and someone i can call a friend that i've met in this industry, which is great. And, you know, when people say like, oh, he's always been nice to me or like, oh, when I met Joe, it was always this or always that, like we were talking about earlier,

I'm like, I'm just lucky. Like, I met people that I want to talk to all the time. Like, there's so many, I met cool people in the industry that, like, I want to talk to or do this with or do that. You know what I mean? So you're one of them, brother. And like, I appreciate you. So thanks for having me on.

Absolutely, Joe. We'll talk soon, okay? You know what, brother. All right. Bye-bye. Yeah. The great Joseph Benavides, obviously, always a pleasure to have him on, on the fighter versus the rider.

And huge to talk to him about his retirement. Of course, break down some UFC 266 action. And I want to say a big thank you, of course, to everyone tuning in this week. We'll be back with another edition of the fighter versus the rider next week. We've got a big fight in the Flyway Division coming up next week in between McKinsey, Dern, and Marina Rodriguez. That's a great fight. Of course this weekend, Tiago Santos and Johnny Walker, all leading to later this month.

We got back-to-back pay-views coming up. UFC 27, Jan Blahovich, and Glover Tashara, and then leading into UFC 268 with Kamar Usman and Colby Covington, and lots more to come for that down the road. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all those places. And, of course, you can always find the podcast over on MMAFighting.com. You have questions, comments, anything you want, anything you want to get on the show, anybody you want to get on the show, anyone you want to hear on the show. Feel free to hit me up on Twitter.

You can follow me at Damon Martin. And we will see you guys next week for another edition of The Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. And we'll see you that. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.