MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer | Josh Emmett: Max Holloway Deserves Third Volkanovski Fight If He Gets Past Yair Rodriguez

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

In the latest edition of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Josh Emmett joins the show to discuss his recovery from major knee surgery after tearing his ACL in a win over Shane Burgos last year. Emmett will detail the long road back to the octagon including a setback earlier this year that pushed his return to action back either further. Emmett will also talk about his recently scheduled fight against Dan Ige at UFC 269 in December and discuss the lay of the land at featherweight including his thoughts on reigning champion Alexander Volkanovski. Plus, Emmett will help break down the main event fight between Max Holloway and Yair Rodriguez and he’ll reveal why he believes Holloway should get a third shot at Volkanovski with a win on Saturday night despite two previous losses to the current champion at 145 pounds. All this and much more on the latest edition of The Fighter vs. The Writer. Follow Josh Emmett @JoshEmmettUFC Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, The Downloaded.

It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible. Back to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Back to the fighter versus the writer. I am your host, as always, Damon Martin, and I am here today with one of the top featherweight fighters in the world. He is making his return to action very soon, following news, and I got to tell you, It's so good to have this guy back in the UFC because he's one of the most exciting fighters in the world and one of the best fed weights in the world.

Welcome in today, Josh Emmett. Josh, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you? I'm fantastic, man. Thank you so much for taking the time to a co-hosts the show with me today. You know, it's funny. We've talked a lot throughout your career, and we even talked a lot during your injury, but how excited are you to hear me say you've got a fight scheduled?

Yeah, man, I couldn't be more stoked. It's been a tough, tough journey. You know, I've had several injuries, unfortunately, in my career, but this, this knee injury was definitely, I think it's towards the top, you know, for sure. So I'm excited to be back in practice, and I'm excited to have a fight. And it's going to be, it's one of the biggest cards of the year. You know, even though last night was a huge card, I think this, this fight coming up is going to be, you know, just huge. So I'm stoked for that and have the fans back. Absolutely, absolutely.

Let me ask, I know again, we talked a couple times during your surgery after your surgery, so I don't want to rehash a ton of stuff. But I know you had a bit of a setback that kind of delayed your comeback. You were going to try to come back earlier this year. I know you had to go through, I believe it was like some stem cell procedures and stuff. Like how I assume the knee is great now, but like kind of give me a sense like what these last few months have been like. Yeah, no, it's good now.

But it's for whatever reason, my, obviously I did, I tore my ACL. So I did the Patelor-Tendant graft. When they took the graft, they take a piece of your kneecap, your Patela, and then the Patella tendon, it did not heal for whatever reason for me. So I had to go back in six months after and do a stem cell procedure where a friend and doctor of mine, he went into my SI joints that's in your back. And he drilled in there with, I feel like a power tool. And then he extracted the bone marrow and spun it.

And then he injected my own stem cells right into, you know, right through my kneecap, my Patella, and then my Patella tenant. So it started to grow back. And so I felt like I was just like five, six months behind. I feel great now. Almost actually my, the knee I had surgery on is, it feels like better than my good knee. So that's a good thing.

It's just been a long process. And again, and I had to, you know, you learn a lot about yourself. And I, um, I don't know, just that, you know, those mental battles, it's like, is my knee ever going to get better? Am I ever going to be able to fight again? Am I going to get back to that, you know, that level I need to perform at an elite level? But here we are, you know, I'm back. I've been back and I've been working my ass off for 15 months straight. And I'm excited to go out there and, you know, show the fans and everyone in the division that, you know, I've only improved.

Absolutely. You know, it's funny you say that about your needs. coming back stronger, you know, medical science has advanced so much. Because years ago, I remember when I was a kid and you hear about NFL players blowing out their ACL, it was like a career-ending injury. Like, you blow out your ACL, that's it. Like, you probably don't come back from that. Now I've talked to so many guys from George St. Pierre, Matt Brown, a ton of guys who had that ACL surgery, Joseph Medevarez, of course, a teammate good friend of yours.

And he had said, like, they come back. And, like, weirdly, I think my niece stronger after surgery because of where it's at. So you're in training now. Of course, you're getting ready for a fight in December. But would you agree that like now you're beyond 100% in terms of that knee? There's no, there's no fear of the knee anymore. Yeah, no, 100%. And, you know, it's funny because I now obviously I've gone through the ACL surgery and injury.

So it's like I can spot these braces when people are wearing them. You know, it's like, oh, ACL, they're like, yep. And then I was talking to some older guys too. You know, it's like that back in their heyday, they're like, oh, I blew out my ACL. And then they show me their knee and they have this, this scar like this. big and I'm like oh god like you know like you said uh you know technology is advanced so much and it was a career ending um injury back then but now i feel like they have they have so many different methods of doing things and um you do come back stronger so it is weird in a weird way

that if i if i rewind to like you know a year ago i'm like man this thing's never going to get better but now to it it's like my knee i had surgery on is so much stronger than my my good knee. And then it's, I think just building up, doing a lot of the practices and different things and techniques, it's more of a mental thing. You just have to get more, I guess, confident that your knee is strong. So that's kind of a battle that I was kind of, you know, going back and forth with and playing with several months ago. But yeah, it's strong as can be. Yeah. So now with that being said, you know, the time off, I know you didn't want it. And again, We talked like right after the injury, right after the fight.

And it's a weird thing because you got so much attention because of the way you fought through that fight with the torn ACL, which is insane. Not only did you, not only did you fight through it, but you won and won impressively. And you wonder like what you would have done without the knee injury. But coming back, it feels like, and again, I know you've been gone for a while, but it feels like you didn't really lose that much ground in division. You're still ranked, I think seventh in division, according to the UFC. There's only a couple of guys logistically ahead of you in terms of like where you're at. you know, in terms of the title shot, and one of those fights is probably,

it's going to happen this week, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, but like in a weird way, do you feel like you didn't really lose a whole lot of ground by being gone? Like some guys do, but it didn't feel like you did. Yeah, no, I totally agree.

It's weird because it feels like forever, but then at the same moment, it's like, I feel like I just fought, you know, but then here we are. When I come back, it's going to be a year and a half since my last spot, which is, it's wild to see how fast time flies. But, yeah,

I really didn't lose a lot of traction. You know, there was just a handful of the guys that were ranked in front of me that, you know, they fought. And that's about it. I think if I was healthy, I would have just been a lot more active, which would have been nice for my bank account. But other than that, it's, yeah, I feel like I'll, you know, I'm kind of right where I left off.

I didn't lose a whole lot. Yeah. When you look at the lay of the land in the division, and I want to talk about Dan Eagay in a second. But, you know, when you look at the Lay of the Land Division, you know, Alexander Volcanowski coming off a big one over Brian Ortega, has two wins over Max Holloway. And I know, and I feel like, you know, there's a good chance they would do that trilogy, even though Max has lost to him twice. But when you look at everyone else in the division, I mean, you know, Korean zombies coming off a loss. Again, you've got a big opportunity here to kind of put yourself right back in there.

But am I wrong in thinking that, you know, weirdly, when you beat Shane Burgos, where he was in the division, then you take, you know, you kind of take that spot in the rankings, you know, a win here and maybe one more. or less just because of timing, but like, I feel like you're right there in the title hunt. Like, in terms of like who's there and who Volcanozky has a fall already, you're kind of right. You're kind of the guy. Yeah, man, I hope so. It's, uh, that's kind of, you know, if I was writing this out perfect,

that's, that's exactly how I wanted to be. You know, I wanted to fight someone in front of me. And that, that was kind of the plan. I was going to fight Arnold Allen, uh, December 11th. But for whatever reason, I think he had some type of injury or he couldn't get cleared in time. So if I wanted that fight, I would have had to wait till possibly February or March. And, you know, I don't want to do that. I want to stay active. And a goal of mine was like,

I'm fighting in 2021, no matter what. I've been a professional since 2011. I fought every single year, actually dating back to like 2013. So I'm like, I'm not going to sit out, you know, an entire year. So that was my goal. And then they offered me a few people. Um, if I wanted to stay on the same card. And I just took the highest ranked opponent, which is Dan Igay. And yeah, I think he's tough. You know, he comes from a great camp.

The guy is super tough, has good coaches, teammates. But you know, it's going to be a dog fight. And I know it's going to be an exciting fight for the fans. This is a fight that a lot of the fans have been wanting to see. So I'm glad we can entertain someone. But yeah, I think a big one, win over Dan Ige first and foremost, then you just kind of go back and see kind of what happens. And then I think I'm possibly one fight away or one win away for fighting for the title.

You know, and then in a weird way, if something were to happen, I'll always, you know, be prepared and try to jump in and, you know, any type of opportunity that presents itself, I'll try to hop in and snag that if possible. Yeah. I know when fighters are injured, everyone has a little different approach to this, but in terms like how much did you pay attention to your division while you were gone? Like did you have to put it out of sight, out of mind? Or did you kind of keep an eye on it just so you know what you're coming back to?

Like, how did you deal with it? Yeah, no, I, man, I've been a fan of the UFC and MMA since like 99. So it's like I'm a big fan. I watch every card or I try to as long as I don't have some type of obligation. But yeah, everyone in the UFC is good. And I see a lot of these people like, oh, I'm not going to, you know, fight someone out of the top 20 or whatnot. It's like everyone in my weight class is good.

It's a dangerous fight. Maybe it's a less risk or more risk for no reward. But yeah, everyone is good. But I feel like in the top like 10, top 15, you know, on any given day, if someone has their best day and someone has their worst day, there could be multiple like champions or whatnot. But yeah, no, I definitely kept an eye on the division. I always do.

And anytime there's a card, I really like to watch my weight class. Yeah. Let me ask you about the champion, Alexander Volcanowski. You know, it's so funny, two wins over Max Holloway. And I would say, I think most people would agree. The first one was more definitive than the second. I actually scored Max winning the second. Very, very close fight, though, and could see it going either way.

But, you know, I think Volcanowski finally got a little bit of the respect he deserved with his performance over, you know, over Brian Ortega. That was such a crazy, good fight, such a great, you know, great performance from him. him. What are your thoughts on Volcanozky? I know you got a lot of respect for everybody in your division. You've never been like a trash talking guy. But what are your thoughts of Volcanovsky? And how exciting would it be to throw hands with that guy? Yeah, no, I, you know, whoever the champion is at the moment, I always think like they're,

they're the best in the division and on the planet in the weight class. And like you said, you know, Jose Aldo was the goat of the featherweight division. Max Holloway was the goat. And then he has, he has wins over those guys. And then he's being the top tier guys. The number one contender is the top guys in the division. And he's undefeated in the UFC. So it's like time and time again, I think people, there is more respect on his name

where people just realize how good he really is. You know what I mean? Because when he's going out and beating guys, people always have their opinion. Oh, well, he couldn't beat this. But then he has multiple wins over these top guys that have been reigning champions for, you know, years. So he's he's the best in my opinion, but it would be awesome and an honor to go in there and, uh, you know, to fight Volcanowski. I think out of everybody, I think him and I match up stylistically the best. Yeah, I think it's a really interesting matchup. You know, it's so funny.

You get, you've got such a reputation for having maybe the, the heaviest hands at featherweight in terms of knockout power, but I think people always forget you actually come from wrestling. Like you actually come from a wrestling background. So you do present some stylistic, matchup problems for him. I mean, that's one thing he really hasn't faced is a guy with really good wrestling and strong hands. And that's one thing you do represent. I know I'm not putting the cart before the horse, so to speak, but that is a really intriguing fight. And again, as I look at the division, you know, you and Arnold Allen, there's not really a lot of choices there in terms of guys that could be there in terms of who would be a legit title consider or who he hasn't

already fought. So, you know, you got to feel good. A big winner for Danny Egan, maybe one more. You're right there, right? Yeah, that's what I'm, that's what I'm hoping for. But I got, I have you pass Dan Inge first. And Dan, Dan is, I know Dan very well. He's another guy, very much like you, not a trash talker, very respectful guy. And I think the biggest, you know, and I mean this is an absolute compliment to him. He is so incredibly durable, so incredibly tough. Like, even when he loses fights, you just can't get him out of there.

You can, you know, the guy will not go away. You've seen him go five rounds with, you know, the Korean zombie. You see him go five rounds, you know, with Calvin Cater, even though he wasn't winning the fight, he was sticking around, did not go away. what do you think about Dan in that regard because you know again you're a guy who really again I think you do have maybe the heaviest hands in the feather away division I mean it would be a feather in your cap to put that guy away but also I imagine there's got to be a certain level of patience knowing that he is typically known for having such great

durability yeah exactly it's uh and I know that about Dan he's so durable he's so damn tough it's uh you know he he's always in the fight too you know what I mean and he he's a BJJ black belt he has good, good wrestling. And I think he has, he has pretty heavy hands and his, his striking is good. So I know it's going to be a fight. You know, I'll be prepared for a 15 minute just war. But that, that is a goal of mine, you know, it's, it's, you know, I fought several guys that have never been finished. And then I'm the person to, you know, give them their first loss via K.O.

or whatever it may be. But yeah, that would be awesome. Like, if I could go in there and, you know, put him away. Like, that's always what I'm trying to do. But I know with him and how tough he is. And yeah, who knows? I'll be prepared for an absolute banger of 15 minutes. But that would be the goal. Yeah. It's weird. When the fight got announced, I was thinking to myself, man, this would be a great five-rounder. This would be a great main event. Like, this would be a great, you know, a great, you know, headliner. But then I'm thinking, you know, what, in a weird way, I'm glad it's on the card it's on because you get more attention this way. You also get the crowd. I mean, every fighter I've talked to, you know, is so excited,

have the audience back. And, you know, the guys fighting right after you on the 18th, you know, Chris Dawkins and Derek Lewis, they got to fight in the apex. No crowd. You know, kind of a weird silence in there, all that kind of weird stuff. Even though you're on a stack card,

and my God, this is a great card, I think it's better. Like, I feel like when you think, like, we're all buzzing about UFC 268. We'll talk about that in a second. Like what happened last night, UFC 267 last week. But like in a weird way,

like even though you're not the main event i feel like this is the card you want to shine on because everyone's going to be watching and and i'm just glad you're coming back with fans and a big card like i don't know tell me how you feel like i'm sure you would have loved to have a main event but like weirdly i'm actually happy you guys are on this card and not on like an apex card but there's no crowd or anything yeah no and that's the thing i i wanted to fight on one of the bigger cards um what i what i was hoping for is is e gay and i would open the the pay-per-view card you know what i mean because then more eyes are on us. I saw last night while I was watching, you know, UFC 268.

I don't know if that's finalized, but I saw the main card. And then I saw the prelims. And they have us as like the co-co on the prelimbs. So I was like, man, who knows? But it would be nice to either headline the prelims or open the pay-per-view card just because a lot of people, even while they're in Vegas, you know, people don't even show up until the main card or the co-main event. and then, you know, a lot of people tune into the pay-per-view all around the world to watch.

So it would be nice to be higher up just so more eyes could be on us because I know it's going to, like I feel like it's just with us fighting and our style of fights, I feel like this is already set for, you know, five of the night potential. You know, it's just going to be a back and forth fight. And so I would like more people to see that. Yeah, because even when Burroughs and I fought, we fought it, it was UFC Vegas, the apex, like, number three. No one was in there. And I feel like if we had fans in the audience, like it would have been insane.

It was already crazy just with the coaches and the staff and everyone in the apex. So it's like I couldn't even imagine if, you know, how loud it would be if we had fans. Like we're going to have a team mobile on December 11th. Yeah, and I think you guys opening a pay-per-view makes a lot of sense because you look at last. night's card with Justin Gajee and Michael Chandler. What a, I mean, good Lord. Like, that was just such an amazing fight. And it set the tone, like, I was, I was covering the event, and my adrenaline was

through the roof. Like, I was like, I don't need caffeine right now because this fight just jacked me up for the rest of that night. Like, I don't, and like, that's the, in a weird way, like, they got switched around because Justin's coach, of course, you know, Trevor Whitman had two more people fighting later in the card that wanted to give him a break between fights. But, like, in a weird way, I actually wish we had more of those kind of situations where you have a great main card opener and I feel like you and Dan are like you know that's a tailor

made fight for opening a car just like gaetchi Chandler yeah no I agree and then yeah it would be we try to I don't know if we can live up to that fight but uh we try let me let me ask you because you know you you've you know you've for the most part in your career you've been a pretty dominant guy in terms of finishes in terms of you know winning your fights you've not really been a guy that's had to you know go through those crazy wild battles too often uh Bergos was mostly closer only because you were fighting on one leg, which is insane still to this day. But like, I don't know, like, I appreciate Gaichi Chandler. That is such an amazing fight.

Like, I could watch that all day. On the flip side, I'm like, man, how much can these guys take? Like, you know, like, you don't want to take that kind of damage. Like, where do you sit in your mind as a fighter when you watch Gaichi Chandler? Like, I'm sure you enjoy it. And I know I enjoyed it. But, like, there's also a part of me thinking, man, like, how much can these guys take? Like, I almost, in a weird way, I'm like, man, I kind of feel bad.

like they have to go through that, but at the same time, I'm sure as hell enjoy watching it. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the thing. Like I think of it from like a fan perspective and then obviously a fighter like doing it. So it's like when people are like, oh, I wish this was a five round fight. It's like look at how badder those guys are. And it's like, you know, Chandler, he kept like spitting stuff out and his face was, you know, he was taking hard, hard shots and they were both rocked several times.

It's like longevity of your career and life. You know, it's like, man, I'm glad it was a three-round fight. But yeah, of course, from an entertainment standpoint, I'm like, that was, I'd say that's right up there with the fight of the year so far. And it was only a three-round fight. But those guys both have the determination and the will and, you know, no quit in them. So they're literally, they're literally just going to keep on going until one of them gets put away.

it's like they're not going to give up and cower away. And that's kind of what we saw last night. But, you know, I think for if we would have seen 10 more minutes of that or two more rounds, it's like I don't think, I don't think we get paid enough for that. Yeah, there's a balancing act to that, right? Like, again, like I appreciate it. It was amazing. Seems like both guys were okay.

I know they went to the hospital for precautionary reasons. It seems like they're good. But man, it's just like watching them go through that. Like I said, I'm a two brink. I'm like, man, it was awesome. It was amazing. I appreciate it. I'm like,

those guys just went through like literally a car crash. Like, they just went through like a literal physical car crash for 15 minutes for our entertainment. And again, I don't want to turn this into like, let's talk about how much the UFC's paying these guys. But whatever it is, I can't imagine it's enough for what they went through because that was such a way. That's the kind of fight. Like, I always said it after, if you remember Robbie Lawler and Carlos Konda a few years ago, I said after that fight, like I don't think either guy was ever the same again. Like if you look at Carlos's performance right after that and Robbie, like Robbie got knocked out by Woodley right after that.

And I said, I just think those guys, like, they took a piece of each other's souls in that fight. Like, I don't think they ever came back the same. Gachi, you know, has been to like, you know, nine of these now, and he somehow continues to do it. But, like, at some point, like, I always worry. I remember when Roy Nelson, like, he always had the greatest chin ever. He could get hit by anybody, get hit by a cinder block,

and he wouldn't go down. And then late in his career, he got cracked a couple times. And then we started to see it go. So I always kind of worry about that. know what I mean? Like there's like a diminishing return sometimes when you're when you're so great, so durable. But at the same time, it does eventually wear out. Yeah. And that's what I think it, you know, eventually it's going to catch up to you. And, and that's one of the things, too. My boxing coach Joey, he's always saying like, I was always kind of nervous too because

it's like they call it breaking the seal too. Once you get knocked out, then is it like you just constantly get knocked out, you know? But I think a lot of it comes into factor as far as like diet. hydration, like so many different things, how well you take care of your body. But yeah, it's like, I guess we really don't know yet. But I feel that way. I feel like your body can only take so much because obviously our bodies aren't made to take that type of damage and impact, you know. But it is, you know, in a weird way, I always think like I've always wanted to get two bonuses. So it's like, I want a crazy fight like that. Like I want to go out there and have the, the, wild this, you know, fight of the night, fight.

And then, you know, in the remaining one minute of the third round, get a huge knockout as well, you know. But then I'm like, man, but then I have to go through that. But I'll be willing to do that. Maybe not every fight, right? Like one good time, maybe not every fight. Yeah. Write that off the checklist, you know, if I can go ahead and do something like that,

it would be awesome. Because it is nice. It's like, like I go out there to entertain. Like, I know we're in the entertainment business. Like you said, I'm not a big trash talker. I don't know these guys. I'm just not going to talk about people that I don't know, but I will fight. You know what I mean?

Like anyone that knows I'm on the card, like I'm going to be an exciting fight from, you know, the first bell until the very end. And I try to do that. I come from wrestling background. I feel like I could go out there and try to just take people down and grind them out. But, you know, I want to be exciting. I want to go for those huge knockouts and things like that because it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. We're going to break down Max Holloway and Yaya Rodriguez in a second because that's, of course, a big fight your division. Maybe potentially you fight the winner. We'll talk about that in a second. Before we get there, you mentioned Josh, of course, you are a big MMA fan and we had such a big card last night. I want to talk real quick about Kabar Usman, another great performance from him. And also, let me give credit to Colby Covington. I know a lot of people don't like what that guy says. I'm not a big fan of some of the things he says. But again, in terms of performance men, you cannot, like, I can't doubt that he is 100,

the second best welterweight in our sport. It's just unfortunately he's got, as Kamara brought up last night, he's just got that one guy in front of him in Kamarer Uismund. But, you know, it's funny when you, I feel like we appreciate greatness in the moment, and then we do kind of lose track of that a little bit, because then there's big, this big debate going on right now is Kamaro the best welterweight of all time versus George.

Of course, George St. Pierre has more title defenses, and, you know, nine title defenses to five right now, Camaro. I've argued, like, I still think George is the greatest in terms of accomplishments. I don't think you can, I mean, you can't measure it. When you look at his win streak, you look at his title defenses. He's still got those records. But in terms of talent, in terms of like a resume, and I'm just saying like the eye test, I think talent-wise, Camaro could be the best welterweight of all time. It's a weird argument. It's kind of like the pound-for-pound debate. Like, there's no right or wrong answer to the pound-for-pound debate,

because what are we judging? You know, what's actually being judged here? But like, I don't know, what do you think? Like, I feel like Camaro, and again, if he keeps going, he very well could break George's record. I mean, he's one win away from breaking Anderson's record for the most wins in a row in the UFC. I mean, what this guy's doing right now is incredible, and he's doing it against good competition. You can't tell me Jorge Mazadol's not good. You can't tell me Gilbert Burns

isn't great. You can't tell me Kobe Covington's not great. Yeah, no, I think it is a tough it's a tough discussion right there. Just because St. Pierre, like, you know, that was one of my favorite fighters, too, and he's done so much for the sport, but then it's also like, look at

Kamar, he's doing And he gets better and better every time. He's such a high-level wrestler. And now he is striking and everything he's doing is just really coming together. So he could go on and dominate Georgia's records and things like that. And he is fighting the best guys in the world. And I thought, you know, Colby is like the most dangerous guy for his style. But then he went out there and he kind of, you know, shut him down again and just prove to everybody

how good he is, even though they got into some firefights in the middle and then, you know, Usman would get caught with some stuff. And I was just thinking like, that is the way that if they get into these these little firefights, like in his hand's not up or he's not rolling or he doesn't get out. It's like those are the dangerous positions where any one of them could get caught. You know what I mean? And it seemed like some of the times it did happen, but then he recovered pretty well and then, you know, got back to the game plan. But, yeah, that's a tough one, man. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he continues his reign

and continues to beat guys that he has and continues to evolve and get better, then, yeah, he could go down as the best Walter weight of all time. Yeah, at worst, I think it's a good argument. You know what I mean? Like, if you're in the argument of being in the same realm as George St. Pierre, you've done something right with your career because that guy's alleged him. You could argue he's the greatest fighter in history period of any weight class

to even be in that conversation with him. is a huge deal, you know what I mean? Because how many people can say they're even in the conversation with George St. Pierre? Yeah, no, you're right. So this weekend, Josh, before I get you out of course, this weekend, there's a massive fight in your division. And I mentioned kind of jokingly, but maybe not jokingly. You could end up fighting the winner here.

Max Holloway, fighting Yariya Rodriguez. This is a big fight. It's been scheduled now a couple times, and Max was dealing with some injuries. Now he's healthy, coming back this weekend. I want to get your thoughts on this matchup because, you know, Yair is one of those guys who kind of always finds a way to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Like he might, like you look at the, the Korean zombie fight. Again, he took that one on short notice,

so let's give credit where credits do. It's not like he had like a full camp, but to go out there and get a knockout the way he did. And he's had some other really impressive wins. You look at the Jeremy Stevens fight, things like that. But Max is, I don't know, like, it's so hard for me to pick against Max, against almost anyone in this division.

Because when he shows up, man, he's so freaking good. And especially over five rounds, like it's so hard to get him out of there. What are your thoughts on this match? And I imagine you've got to lean one way or the other in terms of, in terms of which one you think is going to win. Yeah, I kind of have that. It's similar to you, but it's, uh, you know, Rodriguez, he's so elusive, you know, he's explosive. He's so elusive. Um, but, but Max, it's hard to, it's hard to bet against him just because how good he is and how well he's done, you know, in his career.

And he's still super young and look at his resume. So, um, I, I, I feel like Max has a. that the experience for sure. He has the experience in the five round fights against like the best guys in the world. He was the reigning featherweight champion. So I'm kind of leaning towards him. But then it's like, we'll just kind of have to wait and see and like who shows up. But I would be leaning towards Max. I think he's going to, I don't know, he just has really good striking. And so does Rodriguez. So it's definitely a fight that I'm, I'm excited for. Like I always hate picking fights because it's like I could if I sat here and broke down I could you know argue

how both guys would win the fight but but I have to kind of lean towards Max just because of you know how how damn good he is yeah it's funny I feel like when guys fight Max a lot of times they fight max is so good on the outside is boxing his volume you know things like that and you look at you know Calvin Cater you know fought him a certain way and you can't, to me, you can't let Max do that. If Mass controls the pace and he's able to, you know, stick that jab in your face and use his reach, use his distance, use his boxing, it's going to be a long night. And you think about, like, you know, Yair, to me, like, we saw it in the Stevens fight,

like mix things up, go for takedowns, make Max guess. Because if you fight at Max's range and you fight Max's fight, he's really, really, really hard to beat. Yeah. And even Yair, though, he's so explosive with those kicks, too, you know. So I'm curious to see kind of what his game plan is and how he implements those tricky kicks. And, you know, he has a lot of – his striking comes from all different angles and stances. So, yeah, I'm just curious to see how he kind of comes out and then starts to implement that.

If Max wins, and he's the favorite to win, and again, I lean that way. I know you said you can't lean that way as well. Would you as a featherweight and then maybe taking off your featherweight hat, Would you as a featherway be interested in Holloway Volcanovsky 3, or do you think that somebody else should get a chance before Max gets a rematch? And again, you're in that conversation. You beat Dan Ike. You're right there.

You could arguably say you should fight Max or, you know, whatever. But how do you feel about that? Because it's so weird. We normally would never, ever talk about a guy getting a third title shot when he's already lost to the guy twice. But it almost feels like Max is in a special category because the second fight was so close because, you know, if he beats you Ayr, that's two top five, top six guys he's now beaten in a row. There's only so many options out there. And he's already beaten Ortega pretty convincingly.

So it's like, what I'm not really, you know what I mean? Like, it's a weird one. Yeah, no, I feel like, yeah, it's kind of going back to like the Colby Usman thing. There's like just one guy in front of him. So I kind of feel the same way with that. Max has beat every single person. He was the Fed away champion. He's beat everyone in the top five.

You know what I mean? There's no one left for him really to. to fight but the champion. So I think he would deserve it. And just like you said, it's like the first fight, I thought Volcanowski won that pretty decisively. The second fight was super close.

I could have seen it going either way. So that's why I could see, you know, them doing a trilogy fight. Yeah. So, you know, I think he deserves it. Like honestly, it's, you know, just being fair. He's beat everyone but him.

You know, and he so wants to be the champion and all these things. And there was, like, controversy in the last fight. So, yeah, I think it is, it is fair. Now, let me ask you for your own career now, Josh, you're coming back in December. Again, I'm not, again, not putting things ahead of time. You've got to go through Dan Ige first. But now that you're healthy, the knee's good, assuming everything goes well in December. How active do you want to be?

Because you're in, again, you're in kind of a weird spot because you beat Danigay. Where you're at, ranking-wise, there's only a couple of guys ahead of you. So we already said it multiple times, probably one more win. We get you the title shot. But I also know after coming off an injury like that, I'm sure you don't want to sit six, seven, eight months waiting for, let's say, Max Holloway, or waiting for, you know, Brian Ortega to get healthy, considering the freaking war, he just went through, like, where do you balance that in your head in terms of your activity?

Because I'm quite sure you don't want to sit. But you also got to know you beat Dan Ege. You're potentially one win away from a title shot. So how do you balance that? Yeah, no, man, as always, I want to be as active as possible. So as long as I'm healthy, I want to fight. And I also feel like time is not on my side. You know, I'm one of the older featherweights in the division.

But man, I feel the best I ever have. So I want to stay as active as possible. Like if I could, you know, write this out perfect, I get a big win, December 11th. I want to fight March. There's always a huge card in Vegas right around my birthday. March 3rd to the 5th, you know, whenever they have the card. I want to fight in March.

and then I want to fight international fight week in July. I love it. I love it. Well, Josh, I mean this, you know, beyond, you know, going back with you, you know, several years now to when you first got in the UFC, actually, before you got the UFC, actually, I think is when we get our first interview. It's good to have you back, man, in terms of this division. We need you, man. Like, this division, it's been a lot of fun watching these fights, but I got to be honest,

man, it's good to have you back. The division has missed you. The UFC has missed you. We need a little Josh Emmett injection, and I'm glad we're getting it coming up. December. Cool. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

No, I'm so excited to be back and I'm going to put on a hell of a show, December 11th. I cannot wait. Josh, thanks so much for joining me on the show today. I really appreciate it. Let's talk soon, okay? All right. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Take care, Damon. Talk soon. All right. Bye. All right. There you go. Josh Emmett.

He is back December 11th, UFC 269. I agree. I think you should be leading off the pay-per-view card. You look at what Gachie and Chandler did, you know, UFC 260A, who wouldn't want to see a featherweight version of that. And I think there is that kind of potential when you talk about a guy like Josh Emmett and a guy like Danny, you get two incredibly tough, incredibly durable, fun fighters to watch. So I would watch it.

I'm sure most people would watch that. So I look forward to that. As always, I want to say big thank you to Josh Emmett for coming on the show and co-host with me. I really do appreciate it. Make sure you check out Holloway versus Rodriguez this Saturday. Earlier start time, I believe the main card kicks off at 4 p.m. Eastern, so it's a very early start time for a Saturday from the APEX in Las Vegas.

Make sure you check us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. We're on, I think, Amazon Music, Stitcher, everywhere. And also, of course, you can follow us on MMAFighting.com each week for new editions of the Fighter versus the Rider dropping every Tuesday on MMAFighting.com. I want to say a big thank you again to Josh Emmett and a big thank you to each and every one of you tuning in to the show. We'll be back next week for another edition of Fighter versus the Rider.

Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you then. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.