MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Lauren Murphy Talks Triller Madness with Anderson Silva, Vitor Belfort, Plus Gable Steveson and Fight with Valentina Shevchenko

Episode Date: September 14, 2021

Lauren Murphy joins The Fighter vs. The Writer in episode 4 as she discusses the recent Triller card where Vitor Belfort finished Evander Holyfield and Anderson Silva knocked out Tito Ortiz plus did the UFC make a mistake not pursuing Olympic gold medalist Gable Steveson for a contract? Plus Murphy will discuss her own upcoming fight against Valentina Shevchenko and her prospects for pulling off the upset to become UFC flyweight champion. Follow Damon Martin @DamonMartin Follow Lauren Murphy @LaurenMurphyMMA PODCAST LINKS Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Welcome back to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I am your host, Damon Martin, and today, my speaker. special guest co-host, and I do say special, because she's about to compete for UFC gold against Valentina Shochinko for the flyweight title.

In a matter of days right now, let me welcome in Lauren Murphy, Lauren. How are you, and are you excited when you hear that? Yeah, it is exciting. I'm looking forward to Fight Week, too. I love Fight Week, and this one's going to be, like, extra cool, you know, so I'm pretty jacked up. I'm in really good shape. I've been having good sparring sessions. just really been enjoying the last little bit of camp.

And, you know, we've done this so many times now that it's like really acts into the process and enjoy it. And I think I'm enjoying the process more than I ever have. So it's been, it's been cool. I'm looking forward to the rest of it, too. Yeah. You have, you know, obviously you've been, you know, in this sport for a while. You've accomplished great things.

You've fought everybody. But what does it mean to you to finally get a chance to compete for a UFC title? because not every fighter dream of this. Some fighters are just in it for the money, and that's fine. But what does it mean to you to finally get a chance to compete for UFC gold? You know, it just pays off. Like perseverance pays off. And I think that's not only been the story, kind of my fight career,

but the story, even before, you know, pick myself back up and try hard. And there's been times in my fight career where I've had some pretty humiliating defeats and had some setbacks and some roadblocks and it's like sometimes knocked down and you just have to get back up and keep training and persevering and make yourself better.

And it's go fight for a world title. I think I have a really great chance at winning it. And so this one's for like, this one's for all the people out there that maybe started from the bottom. you know, now we're here. Yeah. Your story, your personal story has been documented very well in terms of like, you know,

getting into MMA in a much different way than a lot of people getting into it later than other people. And again, you've gone through so much in your career. You've been the underdog. You've been here. You know what it's like to be the underdog in life and then kind of persevering and kind of coming out on the other side of that. I know it sounds like a weird question, but do you feel like that actually helps you going into a fight like this where you know, Valentin has been such a dominant champion. We all know how good she is.

There's no secret to what she's done well and the accomplishments she's put together during her incredible career. But do you feel like having been here in that kind of way before it kind of helps you because some people, some people struggle under this kind of moment. You know, it feels like you've gone through at all. You're ready for this moment. Oh, yeah, 100%.

Not just going through the moment, but like I'm enjoying it. I love this. So it doesn't make me nervous to be the underdog. Like I'm very, very honored to go fight such a dominant champion. And I don't know you can't be the greatest upset of all time if you're not the biggest underdog. So I like it. I like being in these kinds of positions. And it really makes me feel like I can just be free and go out and do my very best and be free to be me.

And there's really nothing to lose in that. And so all the pressure I feel like is on the champion in this. And I don't feel a lot of pressure going in, which is really nice. And, yeah, it's a pretty cool spot to be in. Yeah. Now, Valentina, you know, she's earned the respect she's gotten. I mean, she's an amazing champion, amazing fighter. When you look at her resume at 125 pounds, I mean, I think she's lost, what, a round or maybe two at most, if I can think.

I'm trying to think of it was every mid-two. I know she lost one round in one fight during that run against Jennifer Maya, I think. And that might be the only one. I can't really remember. but we've seen this kind of unbeatable aura before. Anderson Silva had it for a long time. I think John Jones had it for a long time where opponents would go in

and it feels like they're already down 10-9 on the scorecards. You know what I mean? They're just facing such a dominant champion that takes them out of themselves. How do you deal with that part of it? Do you just put out of your mind? Do you say, hey, I know she's good, but, you know, I'm better? How do you deal with that?

Because there is a certain aura around Valentina Shokinco. Yeah, you just, you know, you have to keep in mind, like, I'm there to fight the body and not fight her reputation. And I repeat that to myself a lot. And there's a lot of really great examples of really great upsets out there of, you know, super, super dominant champions that were upset by a really, like, unsuspecting, you know, what's the word? I'm, unassuming, unassuming underdog. So, yeah, I think I have it. I think that on that night, I have the best chance of anybody in the world of beating Valentina Shipschenko. And I love that. I like my odds.

Let me ask you to that point, Lauren, because it's kind of weird, because when you first came into the UFC, and this is before I knew you, so I'm proud to say this. When you first came in for Invicta, I said, I think Lauren has got championship credentials, because I saw you fighting Invicta, and I said, man, I looked at you and I said, this is somebody I believe will challenge for a UFC title one day. Now, you've had some couple bad decisions along the way. You've had some ups and downs, but obviously drop it down to flyweight. Now you're on this huge wind streak and everything. But do you feel like when people say upset, when people say, and again, it's going to be an upset because obviously she's the champion and your contender. That's just the nature of the beast. But do you believe it's as big of an upset as it is?

Or do you kind of embrace that to people who are saying, oh my God, she's this massive underdog. And it would be the biggest upset in the history of sport. Like, I don't feel that way, honestly, about this fight. Like, yes, you're an underdog for a reason because Valentin is an incredible champion, but I don't think it would be that big of an upset. I mean, you're a great fighter, but do you embrace that also? Hey, man, come on, give it to me. Let me show that I'm the greatest upset of all time.

You know, I don't really think about it that much. Honestly, like I don't, I don't. When I think about the techniques that I want to execute, and I try to keep in mind the things that my coaches have taught me and to, you know, execute that kind of stuff in sparring. and make it second nature. And really that's what I think about. Because I think, you know,

I'm trying to think of, like, strategy and technique and not worry too much about what anybody else thinks about the fight or what they think about me or what their opinion is on my career. Because, like, that'll drive you crazy, man. So I think I just, for me, I honestly really don't think about it that much. I just try to think about what I want to do in the fight and not about how everybody feels about the fight. Yeah, absolutely.

And to that point, you know, you've been, here. You've been in those dog fights. You know what it's like to have to grind out a win. You know what it's like to, you have to, you know, win that third round to win the fight, those kind of situations before. Valentin has been there. Don't get me wrong. Obviously, she had, you know, that really, really close fight with Amanda Nunes not that long ago, but she's been kind of, you know, running ahead of the race so much lately. She really hasn't been put in those positions in a while. Do you feel like that might be, I don't know. I look at this fight, and I think that could be a slight difference. Like, if it gets down where it's two rounds to two rounds going into that fifth

round, you know what it's like to gut out and pull out that fifth round. You know what it's like to go out there and get out that win. Do you feel like that kind of, that kind of bulldog attitude, you know, can be an advantage for you in this one? I don't know about it. You know, so much experience. Like, outside the UFC, you know, invites and IFMA and like, she's been competing at a high level for a very, very long time. And I'm sure she's had matches outside of the UFC where she had to dig deep and find a way to win, you know, um, I, I, I, I, I would be shocked to find out that she's just been a dominant champion her entire life. I'm sure she's had fights in other organizations and in other,

like in other sports like boxing and kickboxing where she did have to dig deep and find a way to win. So I wouldn't say that that's like an advantage for me, but I do know how tough I am. And I know how I know how to grind in a fight. I know how to grind in life in general. And I'm just a hard worker through and through. And so that's one thing that I think gives me confidence is I really believe in my ability to grind out when I need to.

Yeah. I love this matchup. And like I said, I think you've earned it. And obviously you've done what you need to do to get here. You've seen the ups and downs of the sport. And, you know, you'll probably be more excited, you know, once you have a UFC title around your ways. But I'm just excited for you learn.

It's just like a long time coming. And I'm just glad you finally got here. You got this opportunity. because I think you could argue it could have come one fight sooner, but you went out there, you did your thing, and now here it is. And if I'm excited, I got to imagine you're super excited. Yeah, I'm pretty jacked up. And I didn't want it.

I didn't really want it one fight sooner. You know, it's like it would have been hard to call for a title shot off of a win over a short, you know, short replacement girl like Lilia Shakarova, who I think she just got cut from the UFC. So it's like, you don't, for me, I wouldn't even want a title shot off a fight. like that because how could you possibly have any confidence going in, you know, these girls that shoot straight to the top, they win like two fights and then get a shot at the title or, you know, they lose a couple and then win like one and have a bunch of weight

misses. Like I don't understand how they could go into a matchup like that with any confidence because you don't really have any like good experience to draw on. So I'm actually really grateful that I got to have so many fights before fighting for the title. I'm glad that I've had a lot up and downs and I'm glad that, you know, I had my experience at Bantamweight too, because it's all, it all serves to give me confidence and experience going into this fight. And even stuff like just, you know, learning how to handle the media and learning how to handle myself during fight week. And, you know, the end of camp when things get really stressful, like there's a lot of media to do. And Houston is going through a little tropical storm right now. So like some of the gyms are closing.

And like I just feel like I can draw on all my experience to stay relaxed and kind of roll with the punches and not letting it gets me. And that's so I'm glad that I've had all that experience leading up to this fight. And I really would not feel confident if I only had a few fights in the UFC or if I had shot to the top really, really fast or something like that. Because how could you possibly look at a champion like Valentina and be like, oh, yeah, I think my two fights are going to serve me well here. that's no yeah well this is the situation and and i'll close out on this before we get to some other topics but uh you know valentine has been a great champion and i said this to i remember saying this to chris wyedman before he fought anderson silver the first time and i kind of said somebody else you know within the last couple years when you fight of a dominant champion you got to imagine you win

uh UFC 266 you become champion you're going to see valentina again right like this is not going to be a one and done kind of situation uh yeah maybe who know who know It just kind of depends on how it goes, like on how I win and, you know, how she's feeling. Like it's, yeah, maybe. So, Lauren, as we get into some other topics here, I noticed, and one of the reasons beyond your own fight I want to talk to you is because this last Saturday night, we had another trailer event. And I've been doing this podcast for like four weeks now. And I feel like I've talked about boxing more than I've talked about MMA because all the wildness going on with Jake Paul fighting Tyrant Woodley and Vitor Belford fighting a Vanderholy. And obviously Anderson Silva knocking out Tito Ortiz.

I know you tweeted about it briefly on Saturday night. Everyone's got a different opinion on these kind of, these kind of boxing events that have featured a lot of MMA fighters. And like for every Anderson Silva moment where you're like, man, it's so awesome to see Anderson go out there and do his thing. There's been a couple other situations like, man, I kind of wish that fight hadn't happened. where do you sit on this whole like explosion of boxing events that suddenly are featuring

MMA fighters in the marquee fights? Dude, if they're making money, do their thing. If they're making money and having fun, how can anybody like talk down about that, you know? If that's like they're living the dream, they're making money, they're doing what they love, they're having fun, get that bag, you know what I mean? Do your thing. And it was cool to see Anderson Silva get such a smooth win, you know? I think like really Tito Ortiz has played the heel for a long time.

So it was cool to see Anderson Silva, like step up and be the face and, you know, get a cool, like, feel good win that everybody liked to see. So, yeah, I mean, I'm going to tune into those things. I didn't, I did not watch the last one with Holyfield and Silva and Tito Ortiz. I didn't watch it. I just kind of watched replays on Twitter and followed along on Twitter. But yeah, I'm going to order up a triller event if it's something like, you know, Ben Ascran fighting, whoever or Tyron Woodley, you know, like I think it's cool. Like, it's cool that those guys can go out and make a bunch of money and get that kind of experience and, you know, be treated as a way that they're treated with that promotion and make the money that they're making. That's really it.

I mean, those guys are making a couple million dollars to go out there and have a boxing match and we're all tuning in and watching it. Like, yeah, do your thing. That's awesome. Yeah, it's kind of funny because I think there's like, like, part of me, like, you know, 10 years ago in MMA, you know, you pretty much had to be UFC or bust. I mean, you know, obviously when strike forces around, you know, they're out there. Obviously, there's options where you could actually go, go to boxing and make a couple million dollars for a fight like that. That wasn't really available three or four years ago. And also, like, watching Anderson Silva go out there and he had that.

boxing match with Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and now with Tito Ortiz, like, he looks like he's having so much fun. He looks like the happiest guy in the world, and I'll be the first to admit, watching him lose to Uriah Hall kind of broke my heart, and I'm kind of like, you know what, I kind of hope Anderson walks away.

I don't want to see him get hurt. He's 46, like he's a legend, one of the greatest ever. I just, I don't want to see him go down like that. And now, like, I'm like, I can't wait for Anderson's next boxing match. I can't wait to see what he does. Next thing. It's kind of crazy how this guy's reinvented his career. at 46 with two boxing matches.

Yeah, yeah, it's badass. I mean, when I'm done competing in MMA, I still want to compete in Jiu-Jitsu. Obviously, like, the money and the prestige isn't there, but it's like when I'm done competing in MMA, I still want to compete and I want to do something that I love. And for me, I have goals in Jiu-Jitsu that I still want to accomplish.

And I think it's the same thought process with those guys, only they're making millions of dollars doing it, which is awesome. And I never really dreamed about like going into boxing when I was done with MMA. I would do it obviously if somebody was like, hey, here's a couple million. Like go box this boxer. I'd be like, hell, yeah, let's do it. But I think that it's, you know, it's among those same lines. Those guys still want to be competitors.

They still want to get out there and test themselves. They still want to compete. And it's a, you know, it's a sport that is part of MMA. And so it's not something they're totally inexperienced in. And, you know, like the cherry, I think on the cake of it is that they get to make a shitload of money doing it. And that's badass, man. I don't understand how anybody could, like, look down on that or think that it's a bad thing. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a whole different animal when it's Tyrone Woodley, who is, you know, whatever, 39 years old, you know, four fights removed from being a UFC champion.

Anderson Silva going out there looking amazing. And again, I'm not a boxing guy. I'll be honest. I watched the big fights. I'm not a huge boxing guy, but, like, I draw the line to the Vanderholyfield. I'm like, okay, 58 years old, hasn't fought in like 11 years, and they wouldn't license him the last time he couldn't get a fight. And I think it was New York. And Vitor, like, Vitor is still an animal at 44.

Like, Vitor's still an animal at 44. Now I don't think Vitor is going to go out and knock out, you know, Tyson Fury. I think that, you know, that's ridiculous. But I guess the 58-year-old of Vanderholyfield, like, so, like, that's where I draw the line. Like, I don't want to see Chuck Liddell do this. Like Chuck has gone, I love Chuck. He's a legend, one of the greatest ever. But like watching him lose to Tito a couple years ago kind of broke my heart.

I'm just like, ah, I don't want to see that for these guys. So, like, I feel like, there's a line to be drawn. Like, even for a couple million dollars, I'd be like, I don't want to see Chuck go through that. I definitely don't want to see a Vanderholyville do that again. But then, like, you look at Anderson, who's 46. Ages, ages nothing but a number when you talk about how truly prepared they are for a fight. Vitor and Anderson, 44 and 46, still looking like. animals, a Vanderholyfield, and maybe like a Chuck Liddell, let's just put down the gloves.

That's kind of like where I draw the line. Yeah, but then, I mean, you still bought it and watched it, right? So, like, if you don't want to see it, then don't buy it. And then people don't buy it, then those guys aren't going to get offered millions of dollars to do these fights. So, like, you know, as consumers, and not you, but, like, the Royal You, like, you know, as consumers like we all have to kind of put our money where our mouth is so it's like yeah i don't i don't really want to see like somebody that's all jacked up on t rt or whatever getting out

there and beating the shit i have an old dude either like i really don't want to see that and so that's why i didn't fucking order that fight last weekend you know so uh i did want to see tyron woodley box you know and i did want to see like the spectacle that was you know ben ascran fighting whichever Paul brother he fought or whatever. You know, I wanted to see that, so I'll put my money where my mouth is. I ordered those legit and watched him at the house. But yeah, so I feel you. There are some guys out there that I'm just not interested in watching anymore,

and so I'm not going to. It's kind of crazy, though, at this stage in the game where, you know, like I'm with you on the fact that I'm excited to these guys and hopefully eventually girls, too. I don't know when they're going to get more women's fights, but like I'm glad they could make money doing this. Like, you know, to your Tyre Woodley say he made, you know, how much money he made, millions, you know, $2 million or whatever it was to box Jake Paul.

When you saw Tyron after the fight, like I saw him, I was at the fight, it looked fine. Like he didn't take, he didn't take really damage. It wasn't like he got beat up. And I guarantee that his body didn't probably go through the same kind of torture, you know, for that camp as he did for M.M.A. No offense to boxing, but, you know, M.M. And I know this because I know enough of them, obviously you are.

fighter. You put your bodies through hell going through a training camp. I always hear the one thing I always hear from every fighter. The fight's not the hard part. The training part. The training camp is the hard part. That's where you put yourself through hell to get ready for the fight. I guarantee a tyrant didn't do to his body for that boxing camp what he did for an MMA fight. And he made $2 million. Like how can you not cheer for that? Yeah, 100%. So I work out at Main Street boxing and Muay Thai and they have some just incredible boxers there, Regis Proje and Austin Trout workout out there and just some high-level guys that are super fun to watch. And I would say they don't do the workouts that like MMA fighters put themselves

through where it's like, you know, we're like doing like sprints and then lifting and then having a hard wrestling practice and then sparring and then grappling and then, you know, that's all done before Tuesday afternoon of the week, you know? And boxers, I think they run a lot. They do a lot of jumping rope. You know, they have their workouts that they do. But one thing I will say about the boxers is they spar hard. So the guys that I see at Main Street, they spar three times a week, Monday, Wednesday,

Friday, and they spar their asses off. And I'll watch those guys do eight, 10, 12 rounds back to back to back. And to me, that's crazy because if you try to get me and they're doing boxing rounds like that. I'm going to gas pretty quick. You know, it's just so different than MMA. So definitely it's a, it's a different lifestyle almost that, that they live than us. But, but they put in their work too, you know, so, but yeah, I don't think Tyron Woodley or Ben Askeran went through the same shit that they did, you know, when they were wrestling at a high level or when they were competing in MMA at a high level. And those guys have competed at the highest levels, you know, so. Yeah. So what do we think,

like four years from now, whatever it is, you know, five years from now, whatever the time is that Lauren Murphy's retired. Lauren Murphy, Rhonda Rousey, $2 million boxing payday. Can we see that? Is that possible? Dude, yeah, if they're going to pay me $2 million, I'd box my own mother. Now, Lauren, you obviously, you know, you, again, I've talked about it, and we mentioned earlier, you kind of had a unique entry in the sport in the way you came in, but we're in a different age now

where there's no right or wrong way to get into mixed martial arts. We've seen it come from a lot of different directions. Now, these days, a lot of people are coming in, you know, they're training MMA as a teenager. You know, they're starting MMA at 14, 15, and then they're taking their first pro fight at 18 or 19. And some fighters, like, some of the fighters in, like,

one championship were making pro debuts at 16 and things like that. So there's no right or wrong way to make an entry into MMA. But one of the big stories this past week was 2020, the Olympic gold medalist Gable Steveson had flirted with, was he going to do MMA, was he going to go back to wrestling, or was he going to go to W.W.E. and become a professional wrestler. Now, ultimately, he ended up signing one of these new name, image, likeness, deals with W.E. He's going to become a professional wrestler, but he is going back to college to wrestle for another year, which I totally respect, and I think that's pretty awesome. But I put a tweet out last week, and I got a varied mix of responses, because I said, you know, the story goes like this. that he talked to the UFC or the UFC talk to his people, and the idea was that they said, you know, go get some regional wins and then come through the contender series. And that is a very legit path to getting in the UFC these days,

much like the ultimate fighter has been and still is, you know, from years to come. But I argued, and I want to get your opinion on this, and this is obviously part of the debate here, is that, you know, I was like, listen, Gable Stevenson to me is a once-in-a-lifetime athlete. he's a heavyweight wrestler which you know heavyweight wrestling has come a long way from what it used to be heavyweight wrestling used to be these two big you know giant bear looking dudes

just kind of like crashing into each other now like you're getting some seriously athletic guys at heavyweight he's 21 years old all the potential in the world already making buzz in terms of like talking to media and getting the buzz out there and I was like to me signing gable steveson to a to a UFC contract and even if it's an NIL deal for right now, like a name rights deal, and then bringing him in like a year from now

or maybe two years from now, to me that's an investment for the future. Does that mean Gable Stevenson's going to be a champion? No, there's no guarantee, but there's no guarantees with anybody. I mean, you know, Maricio Shogun, who is a legend? He lost his first fight in the UFC. There's no guarantee.

It got, Mercro Crop, one of my favorite heavyweight fighters ever. I would have told you, I would have bet my house that he was going to be a UFC champion. Never really came that close. I don't know. Like, to me, investing in a guy like Gable Steven is an investment in the future. You invest in the prospect that he can become a superstar.

Am I wrong? I don't know. How do you feel about like should the UFC or any organization for that matter make an investment in kind of an unknown, and kind of an untested product, but the potential's there? Well, yeah. And I mean, who's to say they didn't do that? I mean, so go get, they told him go get some regional wins. I'm sure they were willing to put them on a development deal. bring him into the contender series to showcase him before signing him to the UFC, which I think is like a great way to bring somebody up.

So other, you know, there's been other people that have been put on, you know, development deals that I know of that were able to go compete on the regional scene and kind of get that experience. And it was really, really good for them. You know, there's there's some superstars in the UFC like Henry Suhuto fought on the regional scene. Mackenzie Dern fought on the regional scene. And Demetrius Johnson fought in Alaska on the regional scene in Alaska before he was signed to the UFC. And these guys, you know, they're some of the best fighters in the world. And I think it's important to bring a fighter upright. Like we were just talking about how grateful I am that I had so many up and downs and had so many fights before getting to this level.

Because it can be a lot of pressure. And it is very real. This is not the WWE where it's kind of scripted and you know what's going to happen. and this is the realest shit on earth. This is the fucking UFC. This isn't a game. And so I think to bring somebody up like that, especially somebody like Gable Stevenson

that's going to have so many eyes on him and could be such a force, it's important to give them that experience before they come into the UFC. You can't just take a guy like that, give them a couple, you know, a couple easy fights and then throw them in there with like Steepay-Meochick or something. And like, that's, I mean, you're just asking for a disaster.

And then all this money and time that you've invested into this prospect is going to be wasted because, you know, they get smashed on super fast. That's a huge chance for the UFC to take. So I think it was actually probably pretty smart for them to be like, yeah, go get some regional experience. Let's see how you do, you know, see how you do in a fight. You know, MMA is the unexpected happens all the time and people get hurt bad sometimes. And so, you know, a guy like Gable Stevenson probably can take care of himself and handle himself both in the media and in the cage. But experience, man, experience counts for a lot, a lot, a lot. And so for the UFC to want him to have that before they, before he came in, I think was probably the right move.

Now let me, let me offer a counter argument to that, Lauren. Because I'm like, to me, I think Gable Steven is the kind of guy. You just throw the checkbook out and say maybe he'll become a champion, maybe not. but the perspective, the, you know, the talent is so deep with him, you got to take that chance. Now, MMA is a different animal than a lot of their sports because, you know, a kid playing basketball in high school, you see him playing basketball and, you know, a college recruits him, and then there's like a, you know, there's a system to get up to pro basketball, I guess what I'm getting at. Baseball, same way, football the same way.

We don't really have that with MMA. If you're fighting, you know what I mean? Like, you're fighting as a professional. It's a little different animal than, and you can do amateur, but again, still different animal with MMA and other sports. Here's the counter argument I'll make, though, because Brock Lesnar is my counter argument. And the reason I say this is Brock Lesnar was an NCAA champion from the University of Minnesota, just like Gable Steven. After college, he got recruited by everybody. He went to WV.E. became a superstar, became a massive global superstar.

And then when he left W.W.E., he wanted to do fighting. Now, he did take one fight in K1. I do remember that. He smashed some guy in K1, want to know. But then he comes to the UFC right after that, and they're paying him, you know, seven figures, big money. And he earned it. I mean, when you say earned it, Brock was the superstar.

You can't say he didn't earn it because he was selling pay-per-views. Now, he comes in on day one and fights Frank Meir, which is insane to me when you think about a second pro fight, you're fighting frickin'n' frank Meir when the greatest heavyweights of all time seems lunatic to me. He lost, and then he comes back. But here's my argument. The UFC paid Brock Lesnar a boatload of money for his second pro fight, and then

they ended up, their investment paid off because Brock became champion. He became one of the most profitable fighters in the history of the sport. Now, I know Gable Stevenson, there's no guarantee. But here's my issue. Here's where I argue with this. Let's say he goes to WW, which is what he's doing, he's going to become professional wrestler. And let's say he does great.

Let's say he becomes Brock Lesnar. He's the next Brock Lesnar. He's the superstar, you know, all over the play. headlining, WrestleMania, all the big events, all that kind of stuff. And then six years from now,

he decides, I finally want to be a fighter. Now, maybe he does end up doing one fight like Brock. But at that point, the UFC, they might offer him

a seven-figure deal to say, come in and make your debut. I mean, they did that with CM Punk. They paid that guy $500,000 for his first fight, and he got Bollywap

by Mickey Gaul. Yeah. So my argument is, like, you're going to, this is a, and I know this is all a possible. Everything's a possibility.

There's no guarantee. But there's a possibility five years from now. We're talking about Gable Steven making his UFC debut, except this time for his first pro fight or particularly second pro fight, they're going to pay him seven figures. To me, it's like, why not pay him

100 grand right now and make the investment in him? I don't know how much WWs paying. Maybe it's so, you know, outstronomical the UFC couldn't even begin to match it. I don't know. But like, why not pay him $100,000 right now? Let him go to college, let him do his thing, fund his dream.

and then bring him in like that, and you made the investment in them at that point. Like, that's my only argument. It's like, because I feel like five years from now, they may end up paying him seven figures for his first fight, just like Brock or just like CM Punk. Yeah, but then he'll be worth it because he's bringing millions of eyes with him. You know, those guys like Brock Lesnar and CM Punk had millions of fans from the WWE before they came,

and so they brought all those eyes with them. Gable Stevenson is not that level yet. He doesn't have millions and millions of fans. How many Twitter followers does he have? Not that many. I think like 100,000, something like that. Yeah. So he's not, he's not Brock Lesnar yet.

And maybe he could be. And I'll tell you, if the UFC wants him in five years, they will get him. The UFC gets what the UFC wants. Like, they have a lot of fucking money. And if they want that kid in five years when he's already a superstar and they want to bring him in and then make a, you know, billions of dollars off of him and all of his fans. that he's in half in five years, then for sure. Yeah.

It's a weird one because I get it. Like, you're making an investment in the future, and it's a gamble. They just recently, and I'm not sure if you saw this, Lauren, they just recently signed Alex Pereira, the, uh, the, the glory, former glory champion. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, he has the knockout of Israel out of Sonia. And he's got some MMA experience. He's got a few fights, something like four fights or something like that.

But like, to me, that's a gamble, too, because, like wrestlers, and I'm, again, I'm a wrestling guy, fully admit I'm a wrestling guy. Wrestlers have always made an easier transition in MMA than I think any other art form. Even like jujitsu, like great jiu-jitsu fighters, we've seen get, you know, just, you know, look at Crone Gracie. You guys got all the credentials in the world. And, you know, when you go up against the freaking Cub Swanson, that's a big step in competition. Same thing with strikers. We've seen throughout history, great kickboxes.

I'll never, do you remember Stefan Laco? Do you remember that name back in the day? The old K1 guy. Stefan Blitz Laco. He was like this huge K1 guy back in the day. Everyone made a big deal about him coming to MMA. And he just got, I think he got like dismantled his first fight

because he couldn't stop a takedown. But like that's a gamble. I think Alex Pereira is all the town in the world. And I hope he does great. And boy, I tell you what, him and Otisanya would be huge if you just watched the highlight of their last fight. But that's a gamble too.

Like there's no guarantee Alex Pereer is going to develop into a real challenge of Ridesa Adasana. I guess what I'm, getting at it's all kind of a gamble right absolutely remember go con socky and he was a great striker and then he got starched by kulel roundtree right and that was a fight that i think they were like really counting on go kong to win and he never really became a huge name in the ufc i couldn't even tell you if he's still signed or not so i know that um yeah things change in those four ounce gloves and any anybody that

comes in from any skill set is taking a huge risk you know because m ms is all of it and so it has been a official to start training MMA as a whole when you're young, isn't it? Yeah, we're in a much different era now where you can actually do that. People are actually doing that. And like I'm a wrestling guy. I admit, I'm a wrestling purist. So like when a guy like cable sees that comes along, I'm just like, throw your bank book at him, just give him everything he wants and sign him.

Because I just think the potential is there. But listen, like I said, good for him. And the one thing I will say, I will compliment. I'm glad he's going back to college for another year. Like he's serious about wrestling. He found someone to pay him some money. and he wants to go back. Like, I can, I respect that because I think, you know, wrestling needs stars.

We've seen all the wrestling programs and colleges that have gotten taken away or gone out of business, basically. I'm glad Gables going back for another year because, like, that's a guy you want representing the United States on the biggest stage in the world. A hundred percent. And hopefully he does come over to MMA at some point, and the UFC throws the book at him and gives him a bunch of money. Like, I hope that that he makes a ton of money doing what he loves.

And I think he's on the right path to do. do it, you know, and he'll go get some great experience in the WWE. He'll learn how to handle the media. He'll learn, you know, how to be under light. Because, yeah, there is no guaranteeing the high-level boxers. You know, high-level any sport comes over. And then, man, fighting is just a different, is a different animal. Yeah.

That's spotlight in the UFC Octagon, man. That is like when they say it's the proving ground, it really is because it is. is a whole other animal stepping in that cage with 25,000 people in an arena, millions people watching around the world, and you got an animal in front of you. That's a whole other different beast than anything else you're doing. Those lights are bright. And there's some incredible fighters out there, just incredible, incredible fighters that, you know, maybe you're Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but man, they can fight their asses off.

So that's one of the things we love about MMA, right? That's why we watch it because, like, you never know what's going to happen. And are we back? Yep, we got you. We got you. Yeah, no, it is. It is the ultimate proving ground. And to that point, Lauren, you've got your own proving ground coming up at UFC 266.

Title fight with Valentina Shipchenko. I'm super excited for this fight, as I said earlier. Yes, sir. I can't say thank you enough for taking the time to do Fighter versus the Rado me today, especially with your fight coming up so close. So thank you for doing this. I really do appreciate it. Have a good rest of your training camp. I know it's almost wrapped up at this point. But stay safe, safe travels, enjoy the fight, and everything goes well. You come out with the championship. Will you be my first UFC champion to co-host the show in a couple weeks? Is that

possible? I would be happy to. I would be happy to. I love it. Lauren, thank you so much for the time. I really do appreciate it. the luck in the fight and we will talk soon, okay? Thanks so much, Damon. I'll talk to you soon. All right, bye-bye. Bye. There you go, folks. Lauren Murphy will be challenging Valentina Shepchenko for the UFC Flyweight Championship at this point a matter of days away, so make sure you tune in

for that. Obviously, I want to say a big thank you to each and every person that tunes into the fighter versus the writer. We've got plenty more to come in the coming weeks, already working on some new guests, some new co-hosts, so stay tuned for that. Make sure you're checking us out on all of your favorite podcast platforms, including Amazon, Apple Music, or, excuse me, Apple Podcast, Spotify, and you can obviously find the podcast over at MMAFighting.com. We have questions, comments, guests, people you'd like to have,

co-hosts the show with me. Please hit me up on Twitter. You can follow me at Damon Martin. And we will see you next week for another installment of the fighter versus the writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.