MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Advises Francis Ngannou to Return to Boxing; Calls Alex Pereira vs. Jon Jones the Biggest Fight the UFC Could Promote

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin debate what should be next for Francis Ngannou following his debut win in PFL, who wins between Ilia Topuria and Max Holloway and if Jon Jones might stick around for one more fight if he gets the chance to clash with Alex Pereira. All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. To the fighter versus the writer, I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown, and we are living in a world now where we are days away from Ilya to Poria fighting Max Holloway, and we are now days removed from Francis Nganoe, finally making his return to action, making his PFL debut. Matt, what's going on in your world? How are you? I'm great, bro.

Missed the fight over the weekend, and I guess you probably, I don't know if you've seen My guy, you know, Josiah Harold, I was up there with him last weekend. And the doctors would not clear him to fight, so that kind of sucked. But other than that, man, things are going good. And, you know, so I didn't get to see the Francis fight. But I'm not going to miss all the way to Poria this weekend. That is a must-see. Whitaker Hamzat is a must-see.

Even another one, I haven't heard a lot of people talking about so much. is Rakeach and Alculeev, right? Yeah, that's a good one. That's a real good one. I'll see also. Yeah. So real quick, I know Josiah Harold, of course, we know your guy who was going to fight the UFC. Of course, he had the issue with like a brain issue.

He had surgery. And that fight was in New York, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was in New York. It was supposed to be LFA. Yeah. And for whatever reason, there was like a third party doctor that has to confirm that's not even on site. That's confirmed all the physicals in it.

everything and they just wouldn't sign off on it. I don't know if that was because the New York Commission is just such a hassle to work with or the doctors they bring in if there's a liability thing. I'm not really too sure, but Josiah stayed in good spirits. So that's all we can do is move on to the next one. I know that Al Jermaine Sterling can't fight in New York either because of something weird medical thing like that because I'd asked him before when the O.C. was going to New York and he kind of reminded me that he was supposed to fight there and he had some kind of medical issue

come up on his scans and every other commission will clear but for some reason New York won't so he can't fight at home in New York where he used to live. So I think there's something, I'm not blaming the commission. I'm just saying like I think they're like more of a stickler about certain things, which I think that's my guess because I would assume Josiah will probably get cleared by another commission. But I do know that New York's a little bit weird about that because like even Al Jermaine can't get cleared to fight there.

I don't know exactly what Aljambane's deal was, but he basically said there's something on his scan that like they wouldn't clear him. It's wild, huh? 49 other ones would probably clear you, but just New York. But hey, I guess you can't hate on it, right? Like, they're protecting their asses and they got to do what they got to do. I just wish we had known beforehand or, you know, was it like he'd already weighed in. You know, the guy was there.

He flew in from Brazil. Everybody was ready. Everything's set to go and, you know, and we didn't get the fight. because that's the way the sport goes, right? You can't never predict anything in the sport every week is a new something, right? It's just every week, man. Yeah, well, I hope he gets things figured out

and gets another fight book soon. I know LFA's a good organization. They feed a lot of guys to the UFC, and obviously, I know we mentioned it last week, like Josiah is pretty much, you know, ready for the UFC. It's just a matter of getting it back in there after the surgery and everything.

But I assume he'll get it. He'll get another fight book soon and just, you know, not in New York probably. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and we'll do the due diligence or his management team, whatever. They'll do the due diligence to make sure that he's set beforehand and we're not cutting weight and drive in or flying somewhere and then sitting around waiting and then end up getting dismissed or canceled.

So, yeah, so it was a pretty long weekend on that front. But, you know, that made me miss the Francis fight, which I wasn't going to buy the pay-per-view anyway, but, you know, I would have liked to watch it. Yeah, well, to that point real quick before we get to UFC 308, Let's talk about Francis real quick because even though you didn't see the fight I mean I don't think the result is all that shocking

He finishes Heenan Ferrer in the first round ground and pound knockout was not really a competitive fight He got one takedown Hean couldn't get up and he got blasted with punches and knocked out in the first round I think all of us on some level are going to be happy for Francis

everything he's gone through to get here with his son passing away unspeakable tragedy no one should have to endure and obviously we're happy with him. But I'm just going to stay on the fight stuff. I don't want to get, like, I understand the emotionality of it. I don't want to discount that. But we have to look at this as a fight, right? This is still a sport. And he went out there and knocked out the guy in the first round and

guy was first win. And the PFL probably got paid $8 million to do it. Good for him. I'm happy for him. Here's my question. I tweeted this out on Saturday afternoon during the fight. And I said, I know PFL is not going to like hearing this, but here's the reality. What do you do with Francis now because he just knocked out your 2023 heavyweight champion. You got a heavyweight final coming up in about a month and a half with a guy named Dennis Goldsoff who is Dennis Goldsov and a guy named Oleg Popoff who again, I'm not discounting they're not good heavyweights. I'm just saying like who are they in the grand scheme of things?

Like does anyone, does anyone know these guys? Here's the problem. I said this before and I'll say it now. You could argue he just knocked out their best heavyweight in. he did it in three minutes. Who's he going to fight? Like who? Because I,

even if Oleg Popoff is the greatest prospect we've ever seen, no one knows him. You know what I mean? Like, so that's, like, what do you do with France? What does Francis do from here?

Like, I'm sure he's happy to collect a paycheck to fight these no-name guys, but that's not going to do any, I mean, getting paid, yes. Is it going to do anything for his career,

though? Like, meaning are we still going to, like, where do we, what do we do with Francis? You know what I mean? Like,

where does he go? Yeah, and that's the challenge we spoke about last week. Before that fight was right, like Francis is not big enough of an A side that you can just put any B side in there with them. Like he needs a good B side. The only B sides are in the UFC. So his MMA career, you know, obviously we, I mean, we all cheer for Francis and we hope that he goes on undefeated. I hope he has another 50 fights and knocks everybody out. And, you know, the question will end up being, you know,

know what could have been you know and it's always going to have that that sort of yeah that's going to be the overcast on him all the time is you know is he the greatest ever or or could he have been the greatest ever well we don't know because he did not fight the best of the best in the world so where does he go from here you know for in terms of pfl you know i think it's going to be interesting to see the pay-per-view number still i you know my my twitter for feed was not blown up with it. I certainly, you know, seeing the MMA media and the,

and some fighters talking about it here and there, but it wasn't, you know, like your average UFC card where it's just, you know, scrolling, uh, tweet after tweet of, you know, what's going on, you know, even on the prelims. Yeah.

So it's, it's, it's tough because, like, part of me says, hey, man, you're making all your money. You're, you know, you're going to get paid a lot of money to beat up a bunch of guys that, probably don't really deserve to be in there with you. And really, can you fault him for that? Like, if he's going to, if he fights three times for the PFL gets paid $25 million and knocks out three random dudes we've never heard of,

is anyone going to get mad to Pransans de Ghanon and made $25 million? Of course not. But we can't not talk about the elephant in the room, which is what do those wins really mean in the grand scheme of things, right? Like, put it in this context. Like, right now, like, Tysafuri and Alexander Usik are the best two heavy. boxers in the world, right? Like they are, now that Daniel Dubois has dispatched Anthony Joshua, I think we can all

clearly say that Fury and Usik are the top two heavily, right? Like, you're a boxing guy. They're the top two guys, right? Imagine if that fight doesn't happen, Ousick's just going to fight some random dude, or Tyson Fury is just fighting some random dude. Can they still get paid? Can they still make money? Absolutely.

Does it mean anything? You know what I mean? Like, this is the argument everyone always has about Jake Paul's career. Like, I know it's, I'm not trying to compare Jake Paul to Francis and Garner, but, but, but, like, Like the criticism of Jake Paul is like he says, I want to be a serious boxer. I want to be a champion. You can't do that by just fighting random MMA dudes and 53-year-old retired boxers. Like you eventually have to fight someone that's going to say whether you're actually good or not.

Francis, we know how good he is. He was the UFC heavyweight champion when he left the organization at the end of 20, or at the beginning of 2022. The problem is, and I brought this up to John Jones coach. I didn't interview with Brandon Gibson. and they're getting ready to fight Steepa in a couple weeks. And I said, and I know we talked about this on the podcast as well. Two years ago, all we could talk about was Francis versus John Jones. That's the fight everyone wanted to see.

Now all we talk about is Tom Aspinall and John Jones. People aren't even thinking about Francis because that's how the sport moves on. Out of sight, out of mind. And if you're fighting Dennis Goldsoff and Heenan Ferreira and I don't know who, you're not going to stay relevant in the conversation. is like Cyril Gond goes out there and knocks out, or Alexander Volkov goes out there and knocks out Cyril Gond later this year. And, and, you know, John Jones beat Steepa in November.

We get a couple other big fights in there. Francis is just going to continually drop more and more in the conversation because him beating random European heavyweight guy is not as big as beating Cyril Gond. It's not as big as beating Alexander Volkov. It's not as big as beating Tom Aspinall. Yeah, what do you do, you know, for the M.A.? I guess I don't know if he mentioned anything in the post fight about what he wants to do next. Like, did he mention boxing or because he still wants to box.

He did he did say that. He still wants to box. I mean, that's where his big fights are. It was still, right? I mean, he's going to make more money boxing. I'm sure even than the $8 million that he made in the PFL.

So boxing is the obvious thing to go back to. And I'm guessing that he probably feels and I think we'd probably agree with him that. he can box and and come back to MMA and you know he probably wouldn't be able to do that in the UFC even if he was allowed to by the UFC like going back and forth is going to be a lot more difficult against that level of competition like the John Joneses and the stepe As and Tom Aspenols you know that's a completely different uh protocol you know coming back to MMA and fighting those guys, then it is coming back to MMA and fighting, you know, whoever these other guys are.

And the most difficult thing for him is that those guys, just because we don't know their name, doesn't mean they might not, they might be the next John Jones. That's the kind of the sticking point that he's going to run into, right? They might have the next big guy right there. And he's not putting everything into it because he's going back to boxing and forth. and now he runs into a guy that really is a special star or a special athlete. Yeah, it's a tough one because, you know, again, and also I think, and I mentioned this last week, heavyweight is just not a deep division.

You know what I mean? This isn't like at Bantamweight, you could argue that like you could still go fight a guy like Patchy Mix, and it's a big fight because Patchy Mix, we all know how legit he is. Now, yes, eventually the, you know, the runway runs out. You're going to run out of guys. but Usman Nurmmer-Magamatoff is a legitimately good lightweight. Paul Hughes picked up a big win over the weekend over A.J. McKee. Like Paul Hughes and Usman and Mugamatov is going to be a fun fight.

You can build that fight. You know, Ireland against Dagestan, you can build that up. Middleweight, Johnny Eblon. Did I think his performance over Fabian Edwards made me think he's the best middleweight in the world? No, absolutely not. But at least he has some name value. He has some cash aid to him. There's other – my point is there's other matchups and other divisions.

There's just not that in heavyweight. Unless someone leaves the UFC and signs with PFL and free agency, like I was throwing, I threw the, like people were coming to me saying, well, maybe they could bring back Fador, or maybe they should sign like Arlofsky.

And I'm like, what does that do for France? Like the only suggestion anyone had was Anatoly Malikin, the heavyweight champion of one, which I agree that would be the one. But they're not going to do that. One's not going to co-promote with PFL to send their heavyweight champion over to fight.

That's just not going to happen. So we got to be realistic. He's going to fight Ryan Bader? Are we going to pay $50 to watch a fight Ryan Bader? Like, that's the problem, Francis is going to run into it. And I'm sure, like I said, I'm not going to fault a guy for making $25 million to knock out rando dudes. But you got to realize that's not going to do anything for you in terms of like your ranking. You're not going to become the greatest heavyweight of all time by knocking out Dennis Goldsoff.

You're not. So that's where he's at right now. Like he's kind of stuck in a bit of limbo where it comes to competition. Yeah, I mean, that's why I keep saying, you know, he should focus on boxing. You know, come back to MMA, fight these guys every now and then or whatever, whatever his contract is with the PFL, whatever the deal is there. But go focus on boxing. You know, he put up a great performance against Fury that a lot of people argue that he won. Obviously, you know, bad performance against Joshua, but that's just one bad performance.

He can still go in, you know, prove everybody wrong. Yeah. I hope he does. I still want to see him box more is all I'm saying. Like I want to see him getting there and fight some more good guys, some good boxers. And let's see what he's really made of in boxing. I think that's the most exciting thing to see out of Francis Ingano. I think that's where his highest paydays are.

I just don't know what his contract is with the PFL, but see him boxing excites me a lot more. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, you know, like I said, I mean, again, you got to, you got to, I'm not going to fault of her making money but if you're doing it if that's the purpose then that better be the purpose because it can't be to be the number one heavyweight in the world right now. Probably not the legacy, right? Because beating him fair doesn't really do a lot for your legacy or Tom what's his name, right? These guys are not legacy fights by any means. Even Ryan Bader as good as he is and Ryan might be one of the tougher matchups out there for him. I mean,

his wrestling is very, very good. We know that. If he can get Francis down and start wearing them out, you know, that's certainly a problem. But even that, if he goes and wins, it's still not a legacy fight, right? It's not a, it's not something we're going to be looking back on tapology 20 years from now. Like, dude, look at this motherfucker's resume, right? Yeah, that's why. Again, I think they go box. Yeah, the only other suggestion I saw was Vadim Kov, who is now fighting the heavyweight,

and he's legit, but I said, like, I'm, okay, I guess that's the fight because he's now at heavyweight. but he's a light heavyweight. Like I know he fights a heavyweight, but it's just like Ryan Bader. Like he's not really a heavyweight. He's actually light heavyweight kind of blown up to fight heavyweight. So sure, I guess Nimcoff is the guy,

but is again, are we really going to get that? Even as good as Nimcoff is, and I think Vadim Knav is as legit as they come, does beating him really do a lot for you at heavyweight? No, it just doesn't. Like not right now. You know, I mean, unless Nimcoff goes on, like, becomes like a wrecking machine

and beats everyone out there maybe, but then you're going to wait two more. years to fight again. So yeah, it's just, I don't know, I kind of agree with you. I think maybe go do a boxing match and maybe by the time you come back, they've gotten a couple guys in free agency, or they at least found one guy who looks that good that can kind of challenge you because people tried so hard at talking in Ferreira and to like be in the guy, and it lasted three minutes. So I mean, I thought about a little bit too. I mean, I said last week, like Henan's a big guy. He does have a lot of power, you know, and Francis was definitely just too good for him. So

But I'm still interested really in the pay-per-view numbers. Like, you know, if they're not making their money on bringing in frances on this, like how often are they going to want to do this? Yeah, that's true. Like if they're losing money, you know, if he's getting paid $8 million, I think his opponents are getting paid a million, right? So, you know, they're in the whole $9 million off the rip. If they're not selling 100K pay-per-views,

what are they really doing? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and you got to remember, like, I don't know if that $8 million is accurate. His opponents were getting $2 million. So if he's getting there isn't $2 million, you know, he's got to be getting, you know, 8 million.

And I'm guessing, that would be my guess. I mean, he's not going to secure $2 million payday for his opponent. He's not getting paid at least double or triple that. But then, like, you're not even considering the undercard. Like, I know they had to pay Chris Cyborg a pretty hefty amount of money. I don't know what she got paid, but I guarantee you she's not making a peanut. So, like, yeah, you're talking about a pretty hefty pay card.

So, again, I don't know. We'll see. I guess we'll never defer. I don't think we'll ever know the true numbers on pay-per-view. I'm sure they'll try to sell it and say it was this or that. But yeah, again, long-term. Can I ask real quick before we move on? Boxing-wise, like a prospect?

Are we talking like a Joseph Parker? Are we talking like maybe like the last little bit of life out of Deonté Wilder? Like, what are we talking about? Yeah, I think those are all good options, actually. Just seeing him box, I think we. be good whether i mean wilder is obviously going to be one of the bigger matches out there it's going to sell the most you know seeing them against the prospect maybe not maybe it might not be the biggest selling point but if he wins then it can create a much bigger selling point for the

next one they can build towards something big um you know but there is you know there there is still you know dubois or joseph parker like you said uh you know i don't think anthony joshua wants a rematch but I wouldn't be opposed to that. I wouldn't mind seeing that. It was a quick fight and maybe kind of caught Francis in a bad spot. And maybe Francis could do better next time. A rematch with Fury, I don't think is out of the question,

depending on what happens with Usik Ferry here in November, I think, right? November. With December, what about Big Bang Shang, that guy who knocked out Deonté Wilder? Maybe just two big, heavy punchers throwing down. Yeah, yeah. I mean, those are, I think, like those are exciting. fights like Dubois or Shane you know those are exciting fights are wilder those are fights we

want to see so you know we talk about selling I mean those are fights that are pretty easy I think for a promoter to market right like that's not something you know you're going to get some good paper views out of that I think I think that's an easy sell yeah I would buy a paper view on any of those yeah I agree I would probably buy those a lot quicker than I would you know Francis versus versus random European guy you've never heard of. So, yeah, I agree. And that's why I said, like, just the boxing route seems bigger to me at this point. Like, because if you're not going to, we talk about, like, if you're not in the UFC,

it's just, it's unfortunate truth that you're, you're not in the UFC, bro. Like, you're not at the top. You're not fighting the best guys, period. And, and no matter how good you do, you know, even patchy mix is, like, debatable whether he's a top two or three guy, right? Like there's a lot of people that would argue against that. I think we would argue for it. But, you know, we're purest of

the sport to follow. I think a lot of people would probably argue against it simply because he's not in the UFC. Yeah, no, you're 100% right. Like I said, perception is reality. I said that last week and perception is if you're not in the UFC, you're not the biggest organization, you're not find the best guys. So, like I said,

happy for Francis, happy you got paid, but, you know, you can't help but wonder, like, where does he go from here and where does he go long term like a year from now because there's going to be other heavyweights in the ufc they're going to come up we're all screaming tom aspinall's name right now rightfully so i think he is the best heavyweight in the sport right now john jones is coming back i mean like i said we're going to move on especially if francis isn't fighting those top guys um as i mentioned ufc 308 goes down this week and i think ilia tipporia versus max holloway is

my favorite fight remaining for the rest of this year what an incredible match of course we talked ad nauseum about Max Holloway's knockout over Justin Gagy back at U.S.C. 300. Ilya knocking out Alexander Volcanowski back in February. This is such a tremendous match, man. This is such a fun fight. I mean, Max hasn't lost it Fed away to anybody not named Alexander Volker or Alexander Volcanowski since very early in his crew.

He lost like Connor McGregor. And that was like years and years and years ago. This is such an intriguing fight. Ily is on such a run. He's such a monster. But man, I just, like, I just have a hard time ever betting against Max. Like, this is just such a tremendous. Like, this is one of those fights where it's just like, I just want to say if I can watch.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. And this is one of the few fights where I watched tape on both guys trying to figure out who I think is going to win. And just the more I watched, the less of an idea that I had who's going to win this fight. Like, there's just, it's such a hard fight to break down, you know, stylistically. And both of these guys are the type, well, particularly Max is the type like, like we, you know, he's been the underdog multiple times and finds a way to pull through. And I think most of us are probably going to be leaning towards Toporia in this fight. But Max, like, really seems to thrive in that situation when he's the underdog. Yeah, he does.

It's all the more difficult to pick. It really does. And listen, I think I think Ilya is as good as advertised. I mean, I think he's a monster. But, you know, we've seen him, like, I'll bring up a couple. I'll bring up two fights in particular that just didn't go as easily his way. You know what I mean? Like most of his fights, he's been pretty dominant.

We've got Bryce Mitchell, even the Volcanovsky fight was like pretty lopsided. Like it wasn't a close fight. He put him out of there inside two rounds. One, I would look at the Josh Schmidt fight because Josh wouldn't go away. Now, again, it wasn't a close fight. He put the beat down on him, but he wouldn't go away. And then Ilya had to make some adjustments late in that fight not to gas himself out because he had to put a lot of effort into that fight, and Josh wouldn't go away.

And the other one, I think that's really interesting. And again, I know it's lightweight, and I know it was a couple years ago, but I think he can't forget what happened in that Jai Herbert fight. Because he almost got knocked out. That was a bad one. He was getting hurt badly by a lightweight, a big, tall, lanky lightweight. he came back and knocked him out and it was an incredible win, but that didn't happen until he'd already taken quite a bit of damage.

I know Max is, you know, he's coming back down to featherweight, but he's a long, lanky guy, and we know how tough and durable Max Holloway is. I think those are two things that make me wonder how this fight will play out, because Max has never been finished by strikes in his entire career. He's only been finished once, and that was his debut against Dust of Porier, like 12 years ago, whatever it was. and that was an arm triangle choke or a triangle choke never been knocked out he's had some punishment put on him I'm not saying anybody can be finished we know that

but my question is if this fight doesn't end early if Teporia can't just put him away does that become problematic for him if this goes into round three four and five when Max just seems to get stronger and his output it's ridiculous most guy's output goes down

Holloways goes up yeah well that was kind of of the conclusion I came to is either going to be Torporia early or Max late or by decision. And, man, those two fights that you just spoke of, the Emmett and Herbert fight are the ones that I watched the most because those were the ones where Toporia had the most problems. And I was looking at, like, you know, what caused these problems? And, like, the knockdown from Herbert was, you know, I'm not going to say there's a fluke, but, you know, it was just one of those things.

It wasn't a, you know, he just got caught. so to speak. You know, I hate that term, and here I'm using it. But Herbert was also, like, the perfect matchup to beat Tuporia.

You know, like I had him winning that fight until, you know, Tuporia knocked him out. Like, he has the right matchup, you know, with the length, the knees,

the sort of more Moti-style versus, you know, Emmett, like, tried to box with them, you know, and, you know but that's what max is going to do right max is going to box with him but max definitely has a lot more diversity than that too right like he's got the spinning shit that he does now a lot um you know he

does have kicks in his arsenal um and he seems to always be pulling out new tricks too you know he's been around for a long time we've seen him fight a million times they always pulls out new tricks but I think the big question is can Max hold up to Tuporia's power and can Tuporia hold up to Max's volume Yeah I absolutely agree Those are the going to be the two factors right And we don't know the answer

And that's why they fight and that's why I'm 50-50 So let me ask this I always like getting your advice on this map Because again you're not only a fighter but you're also a coach If you were Max Holloway's coach and you know, I mean, again, he's got great coaches surrounding him, but if you were going to pinpoint a pass to victory for Max Holloway, because thus far, Tuporia is untouched, undefeated,

and while, again, he had a couple of dicey moments against Jai Herbert, and he had to go late and couldn't quite put away Josh Emmett, he still won. It was a pretty lopsided score. But again, credit to Josh Emmett for sticking around. If you were going to pinpoint a game plan for Max Holloway, the strategy, so to speak, to beat Iliott's, Seporia, what would it be? So if I were Max Holloway's coach, I would implement some more kicks,

particularly like push or deep kicks to the body. You know, try to, because you don't want to pour you jumping in with those big overhand rights. And so you need to keep them at that distance and make him pay, you know, every time he tries to close the distance a little bit. Secondly, the winner of this fight is going to be, though, just like a boxing match because this is going to be essentially a boxing match

is going to be the jab. So you need to train this whole camp, getting your jab as educating as you can make it. And you've got to win that battle straight up. And that's going to be, I think, an ultimate decided factor. If Max can get his jab going or if Ilya starts getting his jab going.

But the reason I would add in a lot of the kicks is because that can help your jab too. know, can give some other things from to think about, you know, I don't see their guy shooting for a take down at any point, really. Maybe they will. You never know, but I don't really see that. So, you know, when we talk about mixing it up, like you have to mix it up, you know, with some kicks, potentially even some knees.

But I really do think that the winner of this fight is going to start in the first round. You know, if you're Max Holloway and you're trying to win this fight, you have to start in the first round by chipping away. I actually thought Volcanovsky was doing a really good job of that. He was chipping away at Tuporia very well. He was just defensively not as sound as he probably could have been. And I think he probably wasn't used to Tuporia speed. Like, I mean, he's a very fast guy and very powerful.

So I think getting started early with that jab and winning that distance battle is going to be the key. Yeah, and I think, and you already mentioned it, but I mean, I think the other thing is just not allowing Ilya to get off to that fast start. Like, just survive. Not necessarily survive. You're not, you know, don't look to just eat punishment and then survive, but like, just don't let Ilya get into a rhythm early to where he feels like he's taken over. Because, again, I think the longer the fight goes, the more it favors Max. I'm not saying that Ilya can't win a five-round fight. I'm just saying, like, once it gets into that third, fourth, and fifth round, that's where Max tends to take over.

That's where the volume and his conditioning and all those things got to start to take over. And, you know, Teporia has talked so much trash in this fight. Like, he's, you wonder sometimes, like, is a guy getting too amped up, right? Like, is a guy getting too amped up? Like, I'm going to go out there and finish him in 10 seconds. We all know that's ridiculous. But, you know, you talk yourself into a, you talk yourself into a fight, and that can harm you sometimes. So, like, I just wonder, like, is he going to be so just filled with adrenaline and just trying to go out there and put Maxx all the way away early when it doesn't have.

happen or if it doesn't happen, do you have the gas to go, three, four, five, when Max is still in your face, still sticking that jab, still coming after you? So it's a, it's an infinitely, like, it's such an amazing fight. Like, we don't really need to sell it because it's that good, but it is really hard to pick a winner. Like, it's really hard to see who's, who's going to come out on this one. Well, that's kind of what you're alluding to there. It's got a lot of the kind of same things I was saying in different words where, you know, we want to get this to the third, fourth, and fifth rounds. We want to take some of that pop and power away from Toporia, you know, so, excuse me,

that jab is what's going to get that going, right? And slowing down his momentum and making him question coming inside and throwing those big shots. And I think, you know, teeps and jabs are going to set the stage for that to work where you're chipping away. And then, you know, again, we know who Max is. he gets stronger as he goes along. So don't start off, you know, with all that crazy stuff

because that's when Tuporia's power is going to be there. But the big X factor is like Tuporia has that power for all five rounds. You know, and he's, man, he lays that shot in the fifth round. You know, I think that could be lights out. And that's going to be what's exciting about this fight is even if Max is dominating the whole time, gets into his rhythm, you know, teaching him how to do defense during the fight and things like that. like Tuporia could just throw that shot at any moment.

Yeah. Basically with the Jay Herbert fight, right? Like you know, it looked to me like, you know, Herbert was probably on his way to a victory. And then Tepore just said, no, I'm not fucking taking that. I'm putting a stop to this now. I know you said it's 50-50.

I'm still going to stick with my original prediction, which is I'm leaning Max. Not saying I'm super confident in that pick. I just think that I've just learned not to bet against Max Holloway enough times that I just can't not give him an opportunity here. And again, I think I think I'm as good as advertised. But there's just something about Maxman. I just feel like he's just that ride that momentum for 300.

And, you know, the only guy that seems to have his number at Featherweight is Wolkenovsky. And I don't know, you know, they may end up fighting a four time for all we know. But I'm going to lean Max. I'm not saying I'm super confident in that pick, but I'm leaning Max. If you had to lean one way or the other, which way are you leaning, Matt? I would lean towards Ilya and only because like it just feels like it's his time, you know, and he's just so sharp right now, so confident. And that big X factor, you know, whether it's enough to knock out Max or not, I don't know.

But I could totally see at some point him landing a big shot that's a punch changing fight. You know, a punch that just changes the fight, you know, where Max just doesn't. feel that same confidence anymore or or doesn't want to unleash the way that he can. And I think Ilya's going to land that at some point. I think to be

fair on Max's side, like he's proven he can take that shot and keep going too. So I just, I mean, I think it's Ilius time. And that's where I'm a little bit torn is because to me it feels all my gut says like this is Ilius time.

Like there's no one that can strike with him and it's going to win a fight. But, like, you just don't bet against Max Holloway. Yeah, that's a weird one. Especially if we're going to stand there and box with him. Yeah, it's, like I said, I think that's what makes this fight so good, right? Like, when you're that torn and you can't really pick it, that's what makes a good fight. Co-main event, Hamzot Shemaya, finally making his return to action, basically a year after his last fight.

He's taken on Robert Whitaker and what a lot of people believe is the number one contenders fight. I never like to label it that because the UFC just moves and you never know. Like, nothing's guaranteed. I mean, I think we're, I think everyone's imagining it's going to be Dracus and Sean Strickland next. And if that's the case, like we, and that happens early next year. Like the winner of this fight could end up sitting out for a year and there's a good chance to win this fight fight fight someone else. So my point is it's not really a number one contenders fight.

You just never know. But it's so funny about Hamzot because he came in like a ball of fire man. And that first year of his career was maybe like one of the most hyped guys on the roster to go from like three fights in three weeks and two different weight classes. Then he goes in there and has that absolute war with Gilbert Burns, one of the greatest fights of the year. And then it just kind of falls off. He's injured. He has the weight cutting problem for the Nate Diaz fight. He beats Kevin Holland, good win, of course.

But then he deals with like injuries and illness. And he finally gets to the last year he's supposed to fight. And then obviously Usman has to step in on short notice. He barely gets through Usman. Let's be honest, that was definitely a hard fight for him. And he had some dicey moments in that one. He gets the win. Supposed to fight Whitaker.

Get sick again. Now we're finally getting Whitaker in October. Like, I don't know what you do with Chimae, because even if he goes out there and beats the brakes off Robert Whitaker, hypothetically, let's say he does that. Are you confident enough to put this guy in a title fight and realize, A, is he going to make it? And B, that even if he wins becomes champion,

can you depend on this guy defending the title twice the year? There's just a lot of questions about Tchamaya over these last few years. Yeah, and I think I stopped for UFC, Sean Shelby, McMannery, whoever, for Dana White, for those guys to deal with. I'm just, I'm going to look at the fights, you know, for what they are. And, you know, in my two senses, yeah, he goes out there and beats Robert Whitaker. He deserves a title fight 100%. Like, yeah, put him in there.

Like, Robert Whitaker's the man. You know, like he's an absolute, you know, I mean, as great as he is, I don't want to take away from him, you know, but like if you beat Robert Whitaker, you are prepared for a title and you are deserving of a title fight, period. Yeah. So, but I think Robert Whitaker is going to be, is probably the toughest matchup in the division for Hobbs off. So, you know, I think, you know, I'm leaning head. heavily towards Whitaker here. I'm picking Whitaker. And I think if Whitaker shows up,

uses a game plan strategy like we know that he can and fights the way that we know that he can, I think he wins his fight pretty handedly. I tend to agree with you. And it's not because I don't think Hamzot is good. I just think that we've all, as dominant as Hamzot has been, I think we've started to see there are some areas that can, hurt him. You know, we saw it in the Ustman fight going into that third round, the conditioning.

We even saw it in the Gilbert Burns fight when he throws down, like, he's capable of getting caught and hurt. And Whitaker is so quick on the feet. He's such a good striker, and he's got such great takedown defense. I mean, I know Yowell Romero was a guy who, even as an Olympic wrestler, Olympic silver medalist, he didn't shoot for a ton of takedowns. But he didn't allow Yoel in those two incredible fights they had. Like, he never allowed Yuel to get that part who's game going, and I know UL was a much different fighter than Hamzot, but yeah, I think stylistically,

like I think Whitaker, you might be right. Like, that might be the worst macho because he's got that fast twitchy power, like fast twitchy hands, like really good hand speed, good takedown defense, and, and he's been here. He's been in these big, you know,

these big moments like this, and I think Hamzot knows he's got a lot of questions to answer. Like he's got a lot of, I think he's got doubters now, which we wouldn't have said that, couple years ago. He said, oh, Hamzot's the man. We all think Hamza is going to be champion. Now, I'm like, I don't know, man. So, I'm with you. I'm Lena Whitaker in this fight. And I don't know that it's going to be lopsided, but I think it could be lopsided. I think it could be.

If he gets off early and stops the takedown and starts hitting him on defeat, because I don't, as much power as Hamzot has generated on defeat, I don't think Hamzot is like an elite striker. He's just a very powerful guy. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, if Hamzot is able to to get through Whitaker? I would pick him to beat Dreykis easier than Whitaker. And that's why I say again, I do think that Whitaker is probably the worst matchup for him in this division. You know, the thing is, I don't think he can stand with him,

which leaves him basically where he has to take him down. And Whitaker has shown he is one of the most difficult guys to take down, period. I mean, the guy is just absolutely insane, take down defense, gets up straight away. So, and then even if he's able to do that a couple of times, like, it's not going to be low energy to do that and to keep Whitaker down. It's going to be very, very high energy. And we know the cardio issues that we've discussed with Hamzat about Hamzat. And that's not going to fare well, you know, in the deeper parts of this fight. against Whitaker. That's going to be a very bad situation for him. So, you know, I think

Whitaker has this one. Again, but he has to, the thing is, like, Whitaker has to come out and perform like he's capable of. He cannot, the rest on his laurels here, like, you know, if he had a bad camp, I'm going to be worried about him. If he wakes up on the wrong side of bed, you know, it's going to be a problem. Like, he has to be on his fucking A game from bell to bell here. And the guys that have beaten Whitaker recently, Like, you know, when DDP did it and obviously Israel did it, they were guys who were able to kind of catch him on the feet and take advantage of it in that moment. And I think Hamzat's got that ability. But I think Hamzot, again, I don't think Hamzot is elite striker.

He's a very powerful guy, very hard hitter. You know what I mean? If he can catch Whitaker, sure. But I think technically speaking, he's not as technically proficient on the feet as certainly not Israel out of Sonia. And I don't think even as Drake's duplicity. I know Dracus isn't technically the greatest striker, but he just finally. away on his feet and he's also I mean I think I think Dracus shows a lot of confidence in his hands even if he's not the most elite

striker that's the difference too when you talk about like Dracus and Izzy versus Hamza like Hamzaa like Hamzaa is a really technical striker but you can tell like he doesn't have the experience where he's playing tricks and setting traps like like Izzy is doing or Dracus is probably doing unintentionally just because he's a wild man but it's, you know, it's not necessarily planned out that way. And, you know, I think Hamzaat has, you know, very good straights and, you know, throws very technically.

But he's one of those guys that would like, you know, looks really good doing it. But, you know, you have to have more than just good technique to be Robert Whitaker. You got to have some tricks up your sleeve. Yeah. Do you think Whitaker gets a finish here? Because I think it's possible late. I think if Hamzat starts facing. a little bit. I think you might be able put them away.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. It's going to be because of exhaustion. I don't see like a one-punch knockout or, you know, a big K or anything. Of course, we've watched enough UFC fights at this point in our lives to never discount that chance, that possibility. But yeah, if we're looking at it on paper,

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I agree. Now, the other fight that we got to talk about real quick is the MacaMed, Ancolaev, Alexander Rakish fight. We don't necessarily need to get in the technical side of this. I think it's a really incredible fight. Obviously, Rackich is a very good guy. Ankolaev is so good.

I've said for a long time, I thought Ankelaev was the best light heavyweight in the sport until, you know, what Alex Pereira has done recently. Here's the question, Matt. We all know the narrative here. Ankyov got passed over. No one can sell it to me different. and he got passed over for a title shot.

I like Khalil Roundtree. Magamad Ankleyev got passed over. Like it or not, he got passed over. His manager, Ali Abdelaziz, told me that as long as Ankalyev goes out there and takes care of business, he's going to get his title shot. But is taking care of business enough here. And what I mean by that is, Alex Pere has the, you can argue, has the most options available to him right now.

He can do pretty much what he can call a shot, right? Like if he said, hey, I want to go fight Tom Aspinall, the UFC's probably going to give him Tom Aspenol. Spanol. If John Jones beats Stepe and Alex says, hey John, let's put on the biggest fight in UFC history, you and me, biggest fight not involving Connor McGregor. John Jones, I'm telling you, I think John Jones might be tempted to stick around and fight Alex Breyer. If he says, hey, Dracus, I want to come back down the middleweight, who's going to turn him down? My point is, Alice can do pretty much whatever he wants right now, but he seems

to be saying he's going to stay at light heavyweight. Does Ankyolev need to go out there and just absolutely beat the brakes off Alexander. Finish him, put him, well, they kind of like, you know, Yeri knocked him out at 300. Does he need to go out there and just knock this dude's dick in the dirt and say, I'm the guy. Give me, because I don't think a 29, 28 decision is going to be enough to get Alex Pereira to say, oh, yeah, come on, let's fly.

I think he's got to go out there and demolish this guy. He cannot, this cannot be a boring fight. This cannot be a 29, 28 decision. He needs to go out there and beat, thoroughly beat, Alexander Rackett, in my opinion. And that's a great question because, you know, the, the thing is, like, Rakech is not an easy guy to go out there and beat the breaks off of. You know, he's a very, very good striker.

And just matchup-wise, I mean, this is a risky fight for Anka-Lay. I mean, this is a close fight. This isn't a gimmie. This isn't, you know, a tune-up fight or anything of that. Like, Rakech could absolutely go out there and win this fight. So, you know, beating the brakes off of them, you know, I guess it's going to depend on how the UFC and Pereira look at it, you know, like how much if, you know, assuming hypothetically that that Ankleave goes out there and wins, you know, is that going to be enough for them, you know, respecting the level that rakeage is at? Or is it, or they say, oh, you know, you just got to be able to be anybody that good or whatever. So I just think that's a tough question that I don't have an answer for it.

So let me ask you this then. If you're Alex Pereira, what do you do next? Do you wait and see here? Because he doesn't sound that excited about Ancalaia. And I don't think it's because he doesn't, listen, he's not scared of Ankelaiab. I think we need to eliminate that word from our vocabulary when it comes out. We've known Alex Pereira's not afraid anybody. He'll fight anybody.

He's done it. He'll do it again. But he's in a really good position right now. Like, because again, John is fighting Steepa. Tell me you wouldn't watch Alex fight Tom Aspinall. And again, maybe he loses because Tom Aspinall is a monster, but do you really lose because you're going up a weight class? You take that risk and maybe you become a two-division champion.

I don't like. I'd prefer him going to heavyweight than going back down to middleweight. I didn't go down to middleweight. It's a really bad idea. That's just you're asking for trouble cutting that much weight again. And yeah, I don't think you should do that. But like, if you're Alex Pereira, like, are you just like ignoring this fight? and waiting until November to see if John Jones beats Steve-A?

Because I've had so many people tell me, if I'm Alex Pereira, I'm waiting for John Jones. I don't know if you're going to get it. We don't know if John's going to stick around, he's going to retire, whatever. But tell me that's not the biggest fight you could possibly make in this sport right now without Connor being involved. You wait. You're right.

wait, everybody's correct. The person that loses in all this, unfortunately, is Ankelea, right? He's done all the right things, especially because that beats Ray Kitz well, does all the right things, and he gets fucked, and, you know, it's not even a big name or anything.

So, but yeah, if you're Alex Pereira, you know, you don't need to give a fuck about Ankelea's life, right? Like, you're dealing with your shit. You absolutely go up to heavyweight. 100% and there's never been a three weight champion so be the first

or at least, you know, shoot for those stars. You can always come back and fight on Kalea later. Yeah. So, absolutely go for it. And I'm not, listen, I'm not even saying the Aspenol thing's a bad idea

because I think that's still a fun fight, but come on. You got to wait until November 16th. You know what I mean? Sit cage side, get there in New York, sit there and watch John Jones. If If John's beat Steepay, John's not a stupid guy. John's got to know how big that would be. He's the greatest light heavyweight of all time.

And I'm not, listen, I, again, John's not scared of Tom Aspinall. He's not running from Tom Aspinall. But Tom Aspinall is a riskier fight because Tom Aspinall is on a freaking run. He's a monster heavyweight. Alex Perra, I'm now saying it's not risky. It's certainly risky. But like that has a bit more of a storyline to it. Alex is now the current 25-pound champion.

John's the greatest 205-pound champion. It's a bigger fight. Alex is becoming one of the faces of the UFC. Like, if you're John Jones, if you're going to come back for one more fight, how do you not at least entertain the Alex Pereira fight? Like that is a – again, if you're not going to have Connor, Alex Prayer John Jones is the biggest fight the UFC could promote right now. Am I wrong?

Dude, I don't doubt that it could be as big as any Connor fight. I mean, this could be promoted to the max. I mean, this could be, they could do it, you know, fight week or, you know, one of, you know, one of the gigantic cards, maybe at the sphere, you know, something crazy, you know, I mean, this could be enormous. So, yeah, you know, you said, John's the smart guy. He's, he's here for the money now, I think, you know, for legacy and money. And Alex is going to bring that. And it could be promoted as much as you want to promote. Like this could be the money fight of, and it's heavyweight too.

Like heavyweight fights always bring a stigma to them that those lighter fights just don't bring. Like Connor obviously brought the trash talk and the, you know, all the, all the antics and the, you know, the funny stuff and the cool stuff. And, you know, there's a certain aura when Connor comes into the cage. But there's a different aura that can be sold here when John Jones, the great. the greatest of all time who just beat the greatest heavyweight of all time assuming that happens you know fighting another guy

trying to do the biggest I don't know biggest thing of all time get three and weight world champion like I don't know I can't think of a bigger fight like you said outside of Connor

but like I think it could be as big as any Connor fight I don't disagree especially when you look at all the you know, all the other stuff with it. John is, I mean, because John is a draw. Like, we know John's a draw. He's been a draw. He's the greatest of all time. And Alex is on this incredible run. And he's had so many, you know, headlining pay-per-views. He's super exciting. Now he's the light heavyweight champion. John's the heavyweight champion. Like, come on. Like,

again, I'm not, I'm not discounting the possibility that John says, I want to vanquish this Tom Aspinall guy and get this guy off my back. Maybe he does. But John's all about legacy right now. And to me, Alex Pereira is a big, and that's why I said I feel bad for Anaglia, but like, he could win this weekend. He could absolutely go out there demolish Alexander Rackage. And Pereira still doesn't pay attention to him because he's only got to wait about three more weeks. And he's got John Jones fighting in the main event at Madison Square Garden. Dude, come on. We've seen, like, you've seen those photos, those classic photos.

Like, you remember that photo of when Joseo Alto beat Frankie Edgar at whatever, UFC 200 or whatever, and Connor sitting there watching it? I know they never fought again, but, like, there's that classic. image. Like, dude, imagine scary-ass Alex Pereira staying there cage side, just stoically looking at John Jones after he beats Steve Mioches. Tell me, like, the build right there begins. Like, it just starts right there. Yeah, I mean, they just have Alex in the cage that night, you know, if John wins. Or, hey, even if Stepe wins, look, why not Stepe Alex?

Yeah. I mean, I think Steeper retires if he beats John. I think he don't think it's going to get any better for him than that. But yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, money talks too, right? Yeah. But I'm just, and like I said, I love Tom Aspinall. I think he's as good as advertised.

And I like, I'm a big, again, I've said for years, I thought Ankelai was the best light heavy weight in the world. Again, I've changed that opinion because I think Pereira is now that guy. But how do you not? Like, how do you not just wait? Just to see. Just to see. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, just see if there's a possibility. Like, just, you know, maybe not. Maybe John beats Steve and he says, I'm done. And he says, I'm done. And he leaves the glove at the middle of the end. you can still go back to ankle I have. Wait three weeks. Wait three weeks. Just wait three weeks.

Just see what happens. There's already talk about that, right? Like, you know, his managers are talking with the UFC right now. I mean, you know, be there. Like you said, be there at MSG and whatever happens, happens. And, you know, as long as John wins, like, you know, we can set this up. And that would be, look, usually when the main event ends, we all turn it off. or people start leaving the stadium.

Alex Prayer walks in there. I think people might turn around and, you know, go back to their seat. And I know we're not, like, obviously we're not. I remember going all the way back to when I want to say it was when Alex fought Yeri at 303, I think. I had Laura Sanko on the show. And Laura said, like, if I'm John Jones, that's the only fight I stick around for is Alex prayer. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, and again, because I love. I love Tom Aspenall, but, you know, as much as, as good as Tom has been, Tom still is the next guy, right? Like, he's still just the next guy. Like, he hasn't quite done that, like, legacy stuff to where we're like, man, he's the greatest heavyweight of all time. Like, he's got the potential, but John's fought lots of guys with potential. Alex Pereira, glory champion, middleweight champion, light heavyweight champion, knocked out Israel out of Sonia, knocked out everyone at Light Heavyway. Everyone's praised him as number one.

I mean, Alan Joe Ban was on here saying he thinks Alex is number one pound for pound right now. And I think there's an argument. There's an argument. I think Islam's the guy. But like, there are people who are, you know, arguing. Come on. That's the fight. Like, if John's going to stick around for one more, that's the one he's going to stick around for.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a, I mean, look, I, again the buildup the story the like every all the stars if jang goes out there wins the stars have fucking aligned perfectly to have a

super explosion and this could be the I think again I think it could be the biggest fight since Connor I think it could match the Connors I don't think you're wrong now do you say that like I think you might be right like I think you know, like that might be as big

if not bigger. Because I mean, like you, how much fun can you have with the promoting of this? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so many routes you can take,

so many angles you can take. And I mean, what two perfect guys to be promoting too, right? Like, like I love listening to John Jones talk shit. Now he's so, like,

stoic with it and serious and just to, and, And Alex is the perfect rival to that, the perfect guy to talk back. And I mean, the press conferences, like everything about this just says money in the bag. And remember, John, for years, they talked about John and Anderson, which looking back now, I'm so glad that never happened. But there was a brief period of time where they were talking about Israel and John, you know, Israel were going up to 205. Again, don't think it would have done. Don't think that would have ended well for Izzy.

because we saw what happened when he fought Yomboehovic, who is not 10% of the wrestler that John Jones is. But Alex has a different aura about him because he's done it already. He's done it at light heavyweight. He's proven he's actually a better. I think he's a better light heavyweight than he is a middleweight. I think he's a much better light heavyweight because he's not killing himself to make 185 pounds.

Knocking out Yeri. Knocking out Roundtree. Knocking out Jamal Hill. Dude, come on. Like, I'm getting excited just talking about. I'm sorry, Ankaliev. I'm sorry Tom Aspenol, but if we get the chance, to see Alex versus John Jones sign me the fuck up right now.

I'll pay for the pay-per-view tomorrow. Yeah, I think we could all get excited for that, again, the promotion for it. I think we get us even more excited and we're all going to buy it and watch it. Realistically, though, it's hard to think that John Jones doesn't make this a pretty easy fight. Take him down, elbow his face, get your money, go home. probably not a scratch on yet. You know, it's hard to believe that's not how this ends. Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean, I, you know, I think John Jones, I mean,

it's going to, it would take a lot for me to pick against John Jones against anybody. I think Aspenol's probably the closest one just because how big he is. But I probably would have the same prediction of John fought Francis. Like, Francis is a powerhouse. You put Francis on his back one time and you, started eating elbows from 260-pound John Jones might not last long time. Yeah, you're right. Like, I think there's a clear path to victory for John Jones. But again, we, we, we, there's a clear path to victory when Habib fought Connor. We all knew where the crew of clear bad to

victory was. We still wanted to watch it, right? Like, we still wanted to see it. For sure. For sure. Yeah. And, but, you know, again, we don't necessarily watch because, you know, we know what's going to happen in the fight or assume what's going to happen in the fight. we look drama sells and this would be a high drama fight high stakes true legacy fight for both guys uh i mean just every again everything lines up the stars aligned perfectly for this to be gigantic and uh but you know what john jones got to get through stepe first does not forget that bro stepe is not a walkover stepe is not an easy fight he's got to get through him first He hasn't been tested like at a heavyweight.

Yeah. Stepe, don't discount Stepe shocking everybody and be like, fuck here, Alex Praer, John Jones, fight. Yeah, I've said for years, I thought Steepe was the toughest matchup for John because he had incredible boxing and he has great wrestling.

You know what I mean? Like, Stepe has legitimately great wrestling. You know, can John stand with Steepa? And I, that's a real question. Like, I know people, I know, I listen, I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it too just because, yes, Steepa's been out for three years. He's a little older now, 41, 42.

I'm not saying I don't have those same questions, but if Stepe can be Steepey, and he's still Stepe, like he can still look as good as he has in the past, there's a world where he beats John Jones. There is. There is a world where he absolutely beats John Jones. But we're all guilty of this. Like I said, I mean, John's the favorite.

You know, John's supposed to win. Dude, like I said, man, I'm just saying. Like, I feel bad for Ancolaia. We were talking about Ankeliah. we just shipped it right into Jones and prayer because that's how great that fight would be. The betting lines on the Stepey, John Jones. Have you seen them? Do you know what they are maybe?

They're pretty lopsided for Jones. I want to say it's like a six to one favorite, something like that, five, six to one favorite. Yeah. We opposed to taking that bet, you know, not a ton of money, but maybe a little bit because, look, man, steepe comes in on point, sharp. Like you said, the, you know, at heavyweight, 42 isn't, what it is at 135 pounds. It's not like John Jones's young buck either.

And you got a question like the miles on John Jones, too. It's not, you know, he's obviously had a lot of fights, but he hasn't treated his body well either over the years, I don't think. Yeah. And you play a huge factor in things slowing down. And, yeah, I think there's, I'm surprised he's that big of an underdog, to be honest. I mean, it's heavyweight, so it's always hard for me to think of anyone being that big of an underdog just because that's how heavyweight is.

I brought this up. I think it was last week or a couple weeks ago I said, like, you know, nine times out of ten, you think Kane Velasquez is going to ball Junior Dos Santos, and he did. But there was that one time when Junior caught him in the first round and knocked him out, you know what I mean? Like, that's heavyweight. That's why the longest reigning heavyweight champion in UFC history is three. When you think about all of the great heavyweights that have fought in the UFC all the way going back to our guy Mark Coleman, to think that no one has ever defended that title more than three times.

There's a reason why, because heavyweight is just insanely volatile. It just takes one wrong move and your night's over. So yeah, I mean, like I said, there's a real world where John dips or ducks and Steve they throws an uppercut and suddenly John Jones is not undefeated anymore and Steve is the heavyweight champion again. That's how this sport goes. Yeah, or even just, you know, slowly pick him apart. Steve has a great jab.

John Jones does tend to fight a little I don't know I wouldn't say lazily but like almost lazily sometimes like just kind of cruises by and I think one of the things Stepe is actually good at is landing those

kind of like what I saw earlier about to pour you like those fight changing punches you know just one punch that kind of you know changes the whole fight they did that well against Cormier and you know it look like, like Cormier body-wise isn't John Jones, but there's a lot of similarities there.

You know, so we can absolutely not just assume that John Jones go win this fight. I'm very surprised he's a six to one underdog. I'm going to put some money on that one. Yeah, but it's a good, like I said, man, it's a good problem to have your John Jones, because like I said, he's got options. And like I said, I feel bad. Yeah, but I feel bad.

We started to have at Ankelye and we're just like, yeah, but, you know, like if he's got, you know, again, if I'm Alex Pereira, I just no sell it. Don't say a word this weekend. Just let it happen. November 16th, you sit Cajside Madison Square Garden. And just like I said, maybe John retires and you move on and you fight Ankeliahe of anyways. But what's three weeks, right? Like, what's three weeks? Just wait.

Don't say come get it or, you know, let's fight. Wait three weeks. Show up at Madison Square Garden. If John Jones wins, dude. Stand up. Put your stoic Alex Pereira face on. Look at that cage and tell me the cameras are not going to be going nuts. Yep.

I want to see it. I kind of hope it works that way, but I'm cheering for Steepa though. He's my boy. So I kind of hope he foils all the plans. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Matt, obviously UFC 3-8 this weekend. We'll be back next week.

We are getting into the second last half of the year, the UFC cards, of course. A couple more pay-per-views to go. So we already talked a little bit about Bilal Mohammed Shabkat in December. And of course, we got John Jones and Steven coming up in November. So we'll have lots more to talk about. If people want to support you as they always should, where can people check you out at? Where can people throw some support to The Immortal? I am The Immortal on Instagram and on X, not Twitter.

I was about to say Twitter. The Immoral Map around on Facebook. Look, check my leak in my bio for all my sponsors on my Instagram. So we got, you know, create creatine gummies. got my Airbnb's I've listed up on there now so if you ever need to go into Gatlinburg or Texas and want to go on a little vacay I got you covered. What else? We have Redwood Outdoors, Sondas and Cold Plunges, a bunch of stuff on there.

I got my dynamic striking courses on there. What else? My newsletter I put out every week. It's been every two weeks lately, but whatever. Yeah, it's a lot of stuff on there Just check the link in bio And have some fun Absolutely, absolutely

And we always appreciate everyone The tunes in the show each and every week Make sure you check us out On all your favorite podcast platforms Apple Podcasts Spotify and of course over on the best website In the World MMAFiting.com For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin

We'll be back next week To kind of discuss the fallout from UFC 308 See who wins Iliott, Max Holloway We'll talk about the Angolaia Fight Of course we'll talk about Hamzat and Robert Whitaker And everything's going on from that

so make sure you come back for that. And we will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Writer. Thanks for tuning in. Fox Media Podcast Network. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion

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