MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Announces His Next Fight, Plus Who Is the True No. 1 Pound-for-Pound Fighter?

Episode Date: February 14, 2023

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, Matt Brown and Damon Martin debate the fallout from UFC 284 including who should be the No. 1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world between Islam Makhachev and Alexander Volkanovski. We’ll discuss how we scored the fight and what ultimately led to Volkanovski losing a close decision to Makhachev after five rounds. The veteran UFC welterweight will also details his own experiences using an IV to rehydrate after weigh-ins versus no longer having that benefit following allegations made by Dan Hooker against Makhachev in the wake of his win on Saturday. Plus Brown will break the news on his next fight coming up in May! All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe: Apple Podcasts Subscribe: Spotify Read More: MMA Fighting Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Rider. I'm your host, as always, Damon Martin, alongside me is UFC legend. Matt Brown. Matt, what is going on? A lot's going on, right? A lot's going to, well, why, listen, we got a lot to talk about this week. UFC 284, of course, went down a couple days ago. Islamukhachev defended his title against Alexander Volkanowski.

We're going to get into that. But for the first time in a while, we got some breaking news to open the show. Oh, yeah, we got music. What is the, what is the breaking? That's breaking news music. What is the breaking news? Matt Brown has a fight. so I turn it to you my friend

May 13th versus court McGee there we go the immortal is back the immortal is back coming back to smash the faces man you know court he's a great guy I've hung out with him before great competitor

we both have similar backgrounds in you know some respects right like we both overdosed you know he's really played that shit up he's really a I don't know if you can say play it up. I don't know if that's a, don't mean that in an offensive way, you know, but he's really embraced that. And, yeah, so I got a lot of respect for the guy, man.

But I'm ready to go in there and smash this fucking face him with my elbow. And that's the card we learned over the weekend. That's the card that's going to be headlined by Anthony Smith and Johnny Walker, which is a great way heavyweight fight. On a side note, I had mentioned, you know, like, I think this is going to be like this is, that's like talking about a violence card right there, just those two fights alone.

That's a violence car right there. Do you know where it's at? Because I haven't heard anything about where it's at yet. I haven't heard anything yet either. My contract says TBA. I hope it gets a crowd. That's all I was getting out. Like I hope there's a crowd there.

Yes. I so hope there's a crowd. I mean, I'll fight at the apex, of course. I mean, I'm not going to, you know, complain about anything. But I fought there once, you know, during the, you know, when COVID was happening, I fought in Jacksonville with no crowd. I fought Nabi Dhabi with no crowd. And it is not nearly as fucking cool without a crowd, man.

That is all there is to it. The crowd gets me pumped up. I love it. I love being in front of the crowd. So I hope there's a crowd. Are you excited to get an actual, like, full-on training camp? Because this is basically three, literally three months away. Yeah, I mean, of course.

I mean, I stay in shape all the time. Probably, honestly, the only time that I really fight. fought way out of shape was when I fought Beza and Jacksonville. And I just, you know, what happened was, you know, I'm not making excuses. You know, he showed up and he kicked my ass good, you know. But, you know, when COVID happened, I was on my phone all day. You know, probably a lot of us were, right? We were just reading the news all day about COVID and what's going on.

I thought it was like the fucking zombie apocalypse. I was like, oh, well, no reason to do anything now. It's all over. And, yeah, I think, you know, it was. it's a moment of weakness in my brain there, man. And I just had a hard time finding training partners. A lot of different things. But anyway, the point is, yeah, I try to stay in shape and I'm ready, man.

So we're already cranking it up pretty hard and we're pushing good. Actually, just did six rounds tonight on the pads pretty good. So I'm fucking going to be ready for this one, man. And, you know, Corby McGee, man, he's got some cardio. He'll push a hard pace. you know, he's going to try to break good guys, so I better be ready for him. You know what I love about this? And absolutely nothing against the Miguel Baezas of the world.

Like that, you know, I'm not like taking a shot of that. But I love when we get like a couple of legends in there. Like, Cort McGee's been around. Like that dude's been around. Legendary toughness, ultimate fighter winner. You were on the old, like not to say you wouldn't take on the younger guys or the, you know what I mean? But like these are the fights. Like, I like the fights against two.

established veterans. Like even you and Barbarina kind of the same thing. Barbarina's been around for a while. You and Lawler, like those kind of fights where it's just like, you know, two guys who've been around who've earned it, you know? And that's not to knock the younger guys, but those are the fights that I get it. Because I think we talked about that, not to bring up a sore subject, but we talked about that with

like Shogun going out against the guy we never heard of. Granted, that's the end of his career. But either way, I was like, man, I'd rather see Shogun a Machita or Shogun and like, you know, I want to see those kind of like, you know, the legend fights. And this is like, you and court have been around you put in your work you've earned your reputations uh those are the kind of fights i get up for it's again nothing against the younger guys and i'm sure i know you well enough to know they

would have thrown anybody at you probably would say yes but this is like this is a fun matchup yeah i um you know on that note when you talk about the baeisa fight specifically you know i actually asked for that i didn't ask for baiza specific i didn't know who he was but i said you know give me anybody give me a fucking young guy you know like i want to be child So I won't be pushed. And then, and that was, if you remember, that was originally supposed to happen here in Columbus, right? And I was in great shape. Yeah, and I was trained hard.

And then they canceled the car and I was like, oh, I probably won't fight for another year. I'll just relax. And then they called me and say, hey, you know, you can fight in two weeks. It's the same opponent. I was like, uh, well, I got like 30 pounds of drop. But all right, let's go. And, you know, it is what it is, right? But, you know, at that time, um, you know, at that time, um, you know, I'm, you know, I'm, you know,

you know, I was feeling like fighting the young guy. I said on this specific one, they actually offered me two guys. They offered me a younger guy, and then they offered for it. And they said basically you can pick whichever one, and I went for court. So I kind of just played that card this time. And to be honest, I think the younger guy may have been an easier fight, you know. But that was the card I played this time. So, you know, we'll see what happens.

Yes. but, you know, I like being, like, for instance, when I took the Beza fight, I don't, I didn't like the idea of being in the UFC and not being willing to fight any person they put in front of me. And I felt like I was kind of getting a lot of the older fights or like, you know, not, not fights that would pump me up quite as much. And when I got that fight, the Beza fight, I was like, that got me fucking pumped up. I was this is a young, explosive kids, you know.

Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot of film on them, though. You know, I had no idea what I was getting into. So, he turned, fortunately, he did turn out to be a very tough, very resilient, very durable, very good fighter. So it's good. But anyway, this time, yeah, I went with the Courtney McGee fight. Well, courts well known for his legendary toughness. If you remember the fight, he had a condo where Conda, I think, broke his nose, and he just kept coming, wouldn't go away.

that's the kind of guy. Like I said, you know, there's just certain guys that are built different. You know what I mean? Courts one of those guys. You're one of those guys. I think this is a really fun matchup. And again, you know, you fight just like the Bay is a fight or neither fight out there. Like, you know, it's going to be fun.

When Matt Brown's involved in the fight, it's going to be a fun fight. But I think this is a really good one. I like this matchup. I like the timing of this matchup. May is a good time. And, yeah. Because your last fight was in March of last year in Columbus. So it's been over a year.

Like, it didn't seem like that to me when you told me about the the five. I was like, man, it has been a while. So it's going to be good to get the immortal back in there. Yeah. So unfortunate, it's been that long. I didn't want it to take that long, but just how, you know, we, I mean, I tell all these people all the time when they ask me about, you know, what it's like being a fighter. And I'm like, dude, fighting isn't that hard. Like, this is what we love to do. I mean, it's not easy to excel at it, right? Like, you have to have some talent. You have to work extremely hard. You have dedicated your life to sacrifice, all of that. but when you kind of when you get into the UFC

like you see the light at the end of the rainbow right so like I wouldn't necessarily call that hard right you have a lot of motivation like you're you're with the fucking stars you know like you're the sky's the limit so you know when we love us this lifestyle so much that I don't necessarily I don't I don't call that hard right what's hard is fucking life man that's why I've been out for the year right like life is a fucking big thing bitch. I don't know how people, I mean, it's, it's no wonder that there's so much suicide in the world.

It's no wonder that there's so much violence and problems in the world when these people go sit in offices or live these miserable jobs and then have to deal with life. Like, at least I have a fucking getaway, man. I get to go do what I love, pursue my dreams, be around cool people all the time, fucking, you know, like I live this great lifestyle. I don't know how people even deal with it. You know, I don't know how I wouldn't tell it if I wasn't doing this job. It's not easy. And I think that's like I always bring this up in a lot of interviews I do when I talk to fighters. And I'm like, you know, when a fighter's gone through, you know, like, you know, a death in the family or a divorce or, you know, moving or what just little things that we don't take into account that absolutely can have an effect on how your, you know, how life is treating you. that can affect when you're fighting, how you're fighting, where you're fighting, when you're fighting,

all these kind of things we don't really take into account. Like, we just assume, like, we make assumptions sometimes when a guy's been out for a year. Oh, he must have been injured. No, that's not necessarily the case. You know, he's been out for a year. Well, you know, whatever. You forget, like life, dude. Life is like, life gets in the way, man.

And like, that can be in a million different things. It can be in a million different things what life is. But I think we do get lost sometimes and like getting so focused on the fight itself that we forget about all the other shit you have to deal. with outside of just going to the gym and training because there's so much other shit you deal with. Yeah, and that's something, you know, I do preach to, like, younger fighters when I talk to them and these guys are coming up, you know, especially like once they get into the UFC and I'm like, bro, you like, you need to have your fucking life together, man, like make your life simple and, you know,

make it, you know, consolidate that shit so you don't have to worry about it, man. And there's a lot of things that if I could go back in time, I would change. You know, I don't regret. I don't believe in regretting things. So I don't regret anything. But, you know, there's certainly a lot of different ways that I would do things. If I could go back, just, you know, hindsight is always 2020. So I hope these younger guys will listen.

You know, maybe we could, that would probably make a good podcast episode, to be honest. So, you know, just, because if you look at like, you know, I didn't really. reach a title, but I got, I was, I went to a number one contender fight. You know, I was ranked number five in the world at one point. That was the highest ever win. Um, you know, you would think like from the outside looking in, a guy like, yeah, he's probably got a shit together. His life is good. He's making a lot of money. He's set for life or something. And, you know, it's not really like that, you know. Um, you know, just a fighter lifestyle just doesn't work out that way, you know, the, you know, whether it's the pay or the, you know, I don't know, maybe,

you know, our education levels, right? Like, we're not educated financially, you know, a lot of different things you can talk about on that. But it's not all the glitz and glamour that you see. Like the life part is very, very difficult. And again, with all the sacrifice you make, I think that's where, you know, I don't want to get too deep into it. But, you know, having the right people around you, man. It's a game changer. You know, I think we should do on the podcast, man. I think I'm just like pitching ideas here while we're doing the show.

But I think ask Matt Brown would be a great weekly category to have on the show here where we just go through a question from somebody about questions about the fight life, about preparation, about training, nutrition, anything like that. Ask Matt Brown, because one of the benefits of having you do the podcast with me is I've been covering the sport for over 20 years. Like, I've been around the sport, but at the end of the day, I'm not a fighter. I've been around fighters. I've been in gyms. I've been in training camps. I've been in weight cutting. I've done all the things you can do to be around fighters, but I am not a fighter. So I cannot understand. Truly, I can sit here and say, I've talked to fighters and I've

talked to this guy and that guy and this girl and that girl. I'm not a fighter. Your input is more valuable in that aspect. And I think having a segment on the show every week, ask Matt Brown would be hugely valuable because you have a lot of knowledge to share with fighters who are of your same veteran level. Also, of young guys coming up who just don't know. I think that'd be a best. I think we should start doing that. Just like a weekly category where we could go in and just ask you questions about whatever it is, whether it's nutrition or just, you know, sleep schedule, little shit like that that we don't.

Again, these are all things that we don't really talk about a lot on the podcast. We're kind of breaking down fights and big storylines and news stories and things like. that but like these are the little things that make all the difference in your life preparing for a fight or preparing to win a fight like we don't think about these kind of outside factors and a lot of times we don't hear about until afterwards when a guy reveals like yeah you know I went through camp and blah blah blah but you know it was tough because my mom was in the hospital with cancer we're like holy shit like could you imagine dealing with that during a fight camp or I remember I'll never forget it was one it was a situation absolutely broke my heart and and and

I know he's expressed regret about doing this after the fact, but like, Jake Shields, when he fought Jake Ellenberger back in the day, his dad had died recently before that. And I've known, I've known Jake and his dad Jack for years. Jack was always in his son's corner. He was always right there with him. He was with him all the time. Very, you know, very big part of his son's life. His dad died and Jake ended up fighting like a week or two weeks later.

And like, he just, he looked like a shell of himself in there because I'm like, we all knew that because we heard the news, of course. But like I'm trying to this day, I try to wrap my head. around like imagine going in and again we've had other instances where it's happened more easily people have lost family members and it's incredibly sad damon jackson did he lost his brother and ended up fighting like 10 days later and won but like that kind of like mental fortitude to even wrap your head around fucking fighting after a death in the family or someone's sick in your family or what they're just just little things we don't think about in these life events i think it would be valuable to have

a guy like yourself man because i'd have to imagine at this point you've pretty much gone through fucking everything. Well, maybe not everything. You always think you went through everything until the next thing comes up, right? I think you haven't fit through. But I went through a similar situation. Like when I fought James Wilkes, it was, my dad was, so I took the whole summer off. My dad was struggling with cancer.

And then finally I was kind of at the point where I was like, I was like, dude, I got to take a fight. Like I was running out of money, you know? And he actually ended up passing away 10 weeks out. of that fight. You know, and I just started camp, 10-week camp. I left, went to Seattle with Matt Hume to train for this fight.

And yeah, my dad passed away. So I had to come straight back. You know, I basically went to camp being like, okay, well, you know, it's been my dad struggling for like six months, you know, with cancer. And I was like, dude, well, I got to do something. You know, I got to take a fight. I can't just sit here and, you know, take care of my dad all the time.

he had other people taking care of. And then literally the day that I left, he ends up, I get the call. They're like, we need you to come back. You know, it's about to go down, right? And fortunately, I flew back and he died that night, actually. I literally drove to where he was staying and he died that night. So I did get to see him, you know, that we're at the end. But, you know, so now we've got to go through the funeral, all this stuff.

and now fly back back to Seattle to finish camp and now I got eight weeks, right? And I got to deal with the death of my dad, right? But I think for different fighters, it probably affects them in different ways. Like for me, I think it inspired me, right? Because I wanted to, I don't know what it was, to be honest, but it just inspired me, you know? But the fight after that, like, that was when it was, it really sunk in, you know, because, like, during the camp like i got something to focus on you know i'm using this as fuel for the fire um you know it wasn't like an unexpected thing which i think would be worse for uh most people like it was expected

it was just a matter of when um so with that said you know i i i buster do this right like it was famous his mother died the week before he fought mike tyson right he used it uh probably you know more's fuel right like um lot of these guys that when when family members died i think It can be a fuel, but for me, personally, you know, like I said, I used it as fuel, and then I did a lot more morning after the fight, and then it really kind of sunk in and then, you know, made it difficult after. Yeah, like I said, these are all little things we don't really think about. And they're not little things, but like things that we don't necessarily think about

leading into a fight or a fight camp or coming out of a fight camp or whatever. So, yeah, I think we're going to start that segment. I ask Matt Brown, because I think it's invaluable information you can pass on to up and coming fighters, veteran fighters, you know? I mean, like I said, I just feel like that,

that wealth of experience and that wealth of knowledge is invaluable. So I think we should start doing that. It's not to be clear. Like, if we do a Ask Matt Brown session or whatever, it's not going to be,

what was your favorite fight? Yeah, advice, advice. Ask Matt Brown for advice. Yeah, like, who do you want to fight next? You know, because I do these Instagram live, Q&As every now and then or or just Q&As on the story or whatever. And I get those questions probably a hundred times. And then, you know, so I, sometimes I'll answer it once, but it's just like these same,

like silly questions. I'm just like, like, why do you care about this? Like what do you mean? Who did you, who hit you the hardest? What was the hardest? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, dude, like I've been doing this for like 20 years, been studying this shit deeply.

Like I got, I like to think, at least I got some knowledge that I could pass on. Not, you know, like, what was the best crowd you ever heard? Yeah. I like, I like ask Matt Brown for advice. And I tell you what, we can go into a dangerous section. We can ask Matt Brown about dating advice. We can ask Matt Brown all kinds of advice. Music advice.

I'm sure you got some music advice to pass on. So we'll do a ask Matt Brown advice because I think that would be hilarious. I think it would also be a lot of knowledge also to pass along. I think we're going to have to start doing that, Matt. I promise I will weed out the who you find next questions. Yeah. I probably have better dating advice than people would give me credit for. Like, hey, I went through a divorce and I've been dating for a few years now.

And now I have a serious girlfriend. So I learn when you go through a divorce, anybody has went through a divorce. They all, like, did you learn so fucking much about women? in, about relationships, about yourself, about your ability. How would you say it? Like your ability to work with others. Boy, there's a lot to be learned there. I'll tell you what.

Yeah, no. And we also learned recently that you are, as I like to say, a romantic, a romantic mofo because you also own a romantic hideaway in Tennessee. so you are, you are, no one would have imagined the immortal Matt Brown is a romantic, but secretly with Valentine's Day, you know, we're going to drop on Valentine's Day. So there you go. Which we could do a shameless plug on my Airbnb cabin is Airbnb.com slash H slash Cupid's, hyphen, hide, hyphen away, right?

So it is a romantic cabin in the woods in Gatlinburg. Well, right outside of Gatlinburg, it's actually like pigeon. Forge. Beautiful little cabin, though, man. And arch-shaped tub. And I've taken my girl there. And we've had a good time. Have you never been to Pigeon Forger?

It's a gorgeous area down there. Yeah, the Great Smoky Mountains are beautiful, period. Yeah, good time down there. So, yeah, support the Immortal by Sport and his love hideaway. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrance Suts. Special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com.

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats, no. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. We do have a lot to talk about as we get into the show, of course. The announcement, of course, let's just make sure we're out there. May 13th, Matt Brown, Cort McGee, going down, cannot wait for that one.

We are going to have a lot to talk about that fight. And also, we're going to be doing some fight camp podcast stuff here where we just kind of focus on fight stuff, not necessarily who you fight next, but like, you know, talk about going through the fight camp, training with the savage that is Mark Coleman, the guys you're bringing into camp, maybe we'll get some of them on the podcast, you know, some fun stuff that we don't normally get access to without being in a fight camp. So I think it's going to be a lot of fun over these next couple of months and leading into

the fight with that. With that being said, Matt, of course, this past weekend, UFC 284 went down. Islam McHatchev defended his title against Alexander Volcanov in a five-round classic. And we do have the benefit of hindsight now being a couple days later. And, you know, immediately after the fight, man, these guys were all about, oh, man, it was so, you know, so much honor and so much respect. And then, like, two days later, they're like, I won the, Alexander, I definitely won. And, you know, Islam's firing back. You know, the honor and respect when flying out the window.

I won't say honor. I don't say a flight. You know what I mean. Like the whole, you know, oh, it was a good fight. You know, whatever. And then, you know, two days later, it's a different story. But, uh, you watched the fight. I know this was a fight you found a lot technically that you had.

enjoyed. So what did you think of Islam and Volcanowski? Well, I think I was impressed, very impressed by both of them, as I'm sure everyone was to watch the fight. I'm surprised, but as the instant classic. I didn't think it was really a classic unless it was, you know, for the hardcore MMA fans that, you know, if that wasn't a main event, like no one gets really excited about the fight itself, right? Like if these guys were not, you know, number one and number two pound for pound in the world, right? If it was on the prelims and these guys were up in commerce,

but the skill level there was, you know, you can tell they were number one, number two pound for pound in the world, right? With that said, you know, I had Islam winning. I thought it was, you know, I'm sure that's what everybody wants to hear, right? It's who you have winning?

So, look, Islam won the fight, and I think everybody was impressed by Volcanowski's ability. to wrestle and grapple and, of course, defend wrestling and grappling. And everybody was impressed with Islam's ability to strike and hang in there with Volcanovsky. I thought that the biggest problem here, and this is where pound for pound gets really complicated, is that it was just too much for Volcanovsky to overcome, right? Like, I thought he was as good, if not.

Maybe you could even say he was the better fighter. You know, people could make that argument, I think. But he was fighting a bigger, taller, stronger guy. And maybe not even stronger, but, you know, definitely bigger and taller. You could tell, like, he couldn't get his jab going. Couldn't even use much of his long-range weapons, you know, through very few kicks. It started, you know, in the first round with some kicks, and they kind of just faded off every time.

I was having a hard time closing the distance. distance. And that's obviously partially due to Islam's wrestling too, right? You don't want to take any big risk. But, you know, with him trying to do a lot of shifts to get inside, that was certainly a part of his game plan that he had worked on. And that was how he was trying to close the distance. But it was just too much to overcome. And, you know, kudos to Volcanovokinovsky for trying to climb that mountain. and in my opinion, when we look at any fight like this where we know that the odds are not in the guy's favor, right? And it's a huge mountain for someone like Volcanovsky to climb. Every little bit of success that he does have kind of gets exaggerated

because we kind of didn't expect it. And that's where I think people are putting Volcanovsky is the winner because he did have a decent amount of success. but when you look at the round by round scoring, I mean, it's hard to argue against Islam winning that fight. Two things. One, I know we kind of debate on here, Matt, so we're supposed to disagree on stuff,

but I could not agree with you more on the point about Volcanowski. I thought Volcanowski fought a great fight. I thought he looked incredible. But the reality was there were so many people counting him out saying he was going to get, he was going to get mauled by a bigger, stronger, you know, opponent in Islam. And Islam is that good.

But he didn't. And so I think people kind of the reality, to that is, well, Volkanowski must have won because he didn't get blown out of the water. That's not necessarily the case. He lost. I mean, he did great. Take nothing away from Volkanowski. He put on an amazing performance.

But I had it 48, 47 for Islam Makachev. I didn't really see any controversy there. Now, that's not to say some rounds weren't close. And Volk obviously had some great moments, absolutely. But, yeah, I think people get that revisionist history a little bit when you're, like, so determined that someone's going to, I think a little bit that. I'm not saying that those fights. weren't close, but I think any time, like, John Jones ever had anyone kind of come close, immediately we're like all, like, controversy because we're so used to John Jones just blowing

people out of the water that when anyone keeps it close with him, we're like, oh, my God, huge upset. And I think it's a little bit like that because we built Islam up to Khabib. We were just comparing him to Khab, who is the most dominant lightweight of all time. And then when he doesn't just dominate and Alex actually sticks around, it was a, it was a good fight. It was a close fight. It reminded me of that exact fight, Dominic Rays and John Judd. It was kind of the same thing.

We expected John to just kind of walk through him. And he did. So everything that Dom did do was, again, it was kind of exaggerated. We kind of thought, wow, like, oh, he hit John. I just won him the round. It's like, no, you got to do a little bit more than that. Now, with that said, when people are arguing for a Volcanovsky win, I'm not sure that I would really argue against them.

Like if you came on here and you were like, no, I had a Volcanovsky win and I scored it like this, I'm not sure how much I would argue against you, right? Like I'm not sure that I would have a solid argument to say that that's not true because some of those rounds were so close. I think especially the first and second round, I'm trying to remember, I was trying to remember before we even came on here exactly how all the rounds went down.

But if I remember right, the first and second round were like, so utterly close that like you can certainly make the argument for going either way i think the clearest rounds if i remember right like the fifth round was probably pretty clear for balkanovsky um third and fourth were pretty clear for mokachev right yeah and i'm you know don't quote me on this i could i could be misremembering these rounds but the first and the second we're really kind of close and that's where it goes back to that whole like damage versus control thing and what is damage right because volkanowski dropped him in both those rounds i think volk also got dropped in the second right they think they dropped each

other yeah but it's like it's like it's like and then people talk about the volkinovsky's a strike differential right like he had a lot more strikes but it's like you know what is damage you know just because it's a strike you know these things on paper it's it's fucking stupid man like like papers does not tell the story of a fight. You have to watch the fucking fight. And just because someone hits someone and it counts as a strike on paper, that doesn't mean that it did damage.

Yeah, I hate the term significant strike, and that's like one of my least favorite things in the sport, because what is that? It makes it sound like it's this, it makes it sound like it's almost like a knockout blow in a way. Like, I know they don't mean it that way, but that's what it sounds like when you say a significant strike. What's the difference between that in the regular strike?

What are you counting? Like, what is some dude outside the cage counting as a significant strike versus a regular strike? I don't, I hate those stats. He's very subjective. Yeah, the other thing I want to bring up, and this is one thing I want to mention, because you know what I've noticed is that when we see it, it's only happened a few times where guys will go up and wait and immediately get a title shot and they do this whole champ champ

thing. Now, we've seen people find success with it. Of course, Daniel Kormier did it when he went up and fought Stevie Mioch, but I would argue Daniel Kormier was always a heavyweight. He pretended to be a light heavyweight because he was always. a heavyweight. I think he actually hurt himself by cutting all that weight and fighting a light heavyweight. I think he actually diminished himself

by doing that because he had to shed so much weight and stay down there and fight it 205 pounds. I think Daniel Cormier was a better overall heavyweight. We just know he didn't fight it heavyweight because he didn't want to have to run into his friend, Kane Velasquez. But we saw it Israel out of Sanya. He went up and struggled a little bit with

the size and the power of Jan Belhovic. We saw it when Max Holloway went up and felt with the size and the power of Desta Porier. I think what I've learned, and, you know, again, this is just from an outsider looking in and watching a lot of fights, but I'm starting to realize, like, the way to go up in wait and actually find success is to do the Dustin Porre and Robert Whitaker method. Slow but sure. Don't jump right into the deep end on day one, because you need time to adjust. You need time to adjust to the power, the size, because Volcanozky's gotten hit by, you know, he got, he's gone 20, whatever it is, 15 rounds. or whatever it is with Max Holloway,

he got hit at like one hard time by Mokachev, and it rattled him, it knocked him on his butt, and I just think that's a difference between lightweight power and featherweight power. I just like, obviously Connor found success. He did it to Eddie Alvarez.

It's a different matchup, different, okay, I understand that. But, like, I think, like, when you look at Robert Whitaker, like, we forget he was a welterweight. Like, we just completely forget that because he was kind of a middle of the road, welterweight.

He went up and slowly but surely became a middleweight and then you know he eventually became champion Dustin Porreier yeah he had the he had the one you know bad fight with Michael Johnson but then he just started building on that he started building and building and building and became now we can't even really fathom Dustin Porier being a featherweight I think that's the road you got to travel because I think when you're Volcanovsky he was maybe again one round away from winning that fight and as you said argued that maybe there's an argument to be made that he could have won that fight the difference I think were those little

things he couldn't truly be ready for in his first lightweight fight, that just a power differential that he just couldn't quite plan for, just getting hit hard one time by Islam Makachiav that just kind of knocked him on his butt that he just, you can't, you can't, because you're not getting hit like that. You're not trying to get knocked out in practice, Matt. We all know this, like not say it doesn't happen, but you're not in there letting your partners just beat the living hell out of you just to see how you can take a lightweight punch.

I think that's what I'm learning. early, I don't have a problem with Volcanovsky going back to Lightweight one day, but instead of just getting a title shot, I would like to see him get a couple of other fights to get acclimated to Lightweight, because I think we've seen this, especially again recently, Max Holloway and Israel Adasana, are two great examples of guys who went up, and they had to deal with a size differential. They just weren't used to in a fight versus a Porier and a Whitaker who did it slowly but surely. They built their body up. They built their muscle up. They built their time.

timing up and then Porreier interim champion, you know, Whitaker WorldShay. Am I wrong in thinking that might be like this might be a bit of a mistake to just go right up and fight for the title because you don't have time to acclimate? No, I think that's a good point. And to add to that, you know, when a guy like, well, for instance, like Volcanovsky going up to fight Islam, I mean, it's not like he went up to fight a world champion. and he went up to fight the number two pound for pound guy in the world. Like he went to fight Islam, you know.

And I don't know, it's hard to tell, man. You know, like I think like Israel probably underestimated Jan Blockowicz to a little bit, you know, in that exact sense. And that makes a lot of sense, you know, exactly what you're saying. For Volcanovsky, it seems that the biggest thing for him to ever overcome is going to be just literally his side. size, right? Even if he, you know, fills out into a full on 155 or like, Mankachev looked, you could tell they were in two different weight classes. Like he was so much bigger and taller.

And it didn't seem, and just from everything that they've also talked about a little bit, like the strength wasn't a huge difference as much as probably we expected it to be. But just the height, like Volcanowski had a very hard, time getting inside on Islam. And of course, part of that's going to be because of the wrestling, right? Like you can only close the distance so much, so fast without risking getting wrestled. But, you know, even if you took the wrestling out, if it was a kickbox and match, you know, you have to take two steps to get inside when that dude can just stand there and still not be

touched, right? And you just took two steps. So, you know, the timing changes up a lot. And again, it just seemed like a little bit too much for Volkanowski to ever just the hair too much. But I mean, you can't say enough good things about Volcanowski. I mean, Jesus Christ, like he didn't grow up in the mountains of Dagestan wrestling. And he actually, you know, completely hung in there with him. So, you know, Volcanowski, and for me, I still keep him as number one pound for pound.

Because it seemed to me that Islam won that fight because of pound for pound, like because of weight, size, not because of an actual skill separation. So you're actually still keeping number one over Islam? I actually do, which, again, when we're talking – and pound for pound is such a silly, stupid argument. It is. It is. It is. I think we all know this, you know, so, but since I know we're going to go there and everybody's going there, you know, that's my two cents. Pound for pound, I do think he is still the better fighter, but he could not overcome the size, right?

Like I'll put him, you know, pound for pound over, you know, the, you know, Jamal Hill, for instance, right? But he's not going to overcome that size either, right? So it's like, you know, you have to look at it in a certain way. You know, he's not going to overcome the size of a heavyweight or, you know what I mean? So I disagree with you only based on this because to me, results have to matter. And Alexander Volcanowski took the risk of going up and weight. And at that point, even though I don't disagree with you in terms of like why Islam Makachev won the fight, it wasn't necessarily he was always the better fighter.

he did have the weight and the size on him and that helped. But the reality is that Alexander Volcanovsky took that risk and took that shot. And I think the reason why the result matters so much in this one to me is because they were so close. This would be different. This was different. I talked about this on another one of our podcasts on MMA fighting. We were doing a ranking show. Like when Jan Blahovic beat Israel Adasanya, I didn't jump Blahovic over Adasani.

the rankings because the fight was really close and and autosanians had a much better body of work. I mean, Blahovic had just beaten Dominic Reyes. Like, that's the only win he had and he, and he became champion. And that was after John Jones left the division. So we were still dealing with the fallout of John Jones being the best light heavyweight in the sport, but somebody else had the belt. Like, that was kind of the way we all looked at. Let's be honest. That's the way we all kind of looked at it. And Israel was already in, you know, whatever it was, like five, six title defenses, you know, looked incredible. I think he was coming out to cost a win. And and, you know, he just looked unbeatable.

So I didn't jump him. Even though he lost the fight, I didn't jump him. The reason why I did it this one is because I think, you know, based on the rankings, Volcanowski was number one, Makatchev was number two. He beats him, even in a close fight and wait. And the result is what ultimately trumps it for me, where I have to put him number one. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but the result has to matter. And listen, Volcanowski, it wasn't like Volcanowski got thrown into this by accident

or he took the fight on a week's notice. He did this of his own volition. He asked for this fight. He had months to prepare since October to prepare to fight at 155. He knew what he was stepping into. And he lost. And it is what it is. He lost.

That's the story to me. Again, it's not to say he can't retake that spot. You know, there's all, all of the, again, just to be clear, we all know pound for pound is, you know, whatever. But yeah, to me, the result has to matter. And Makachev won the fight. And I get that. But when I look at, it's like,

body of work versus Volk's body of work, like you just referred to. When you talk about body of work, like Volkanowski's is way better. And then he took a risk by moving up. And again, like if he, you know, what if he went up to 170 and challenged Leon Edwards, you know, and lost to him? You know, we'd probably give him a lot more benefit of the doubt, right? We'd be like, well, you know, that's way too much of a size difference. And again, to me, the biggest differentiator, the separator in the fight that

Volcanovsky couldn't overcome wasn't a skill thing. So when we look at pound for pound, I think skill-wise, he's still right there. But what he couldn't overcome was the size and height difference. I mean, you're right about the, you're absolutely right about the body work. Volcanovsky had a better body work, although to his credit, Mockachach is on like a 13-fight win streak. Granted, most of those wins aren't over the same level of competition. The Volcanowski had with like three wins over Max Holloway, you know,

win over Brian Ortega. Like, I think he had higher quality wins. Yeah, and obviously, you know, you know, Makachov had one really big win, which was the Olavera fight, that he absolutely dominated and then finished in the second round of the submission. So, yeah, I don't disagree. But again, I just, the result, like I said, to me, they're close. And when you're that close and one guy wins, one guy loses, that to me, put you there.

And that's why I have it number one. But I'm not, I'm not arguing, like vehemently arguing that it's wrong to have Volcanowski number one. I just, again, to me, results always have to matter at least a little bit. And, and Vulcanus, again, I think this, you can be in Vulcanowski, he looked great. He deserves a ton of credit for doing what he did. But he just, to me, came up short that night. And I, I don't, I feel completely okay with my scorecard. Like, if I felt guilty about my scorecard, maybe I'd have a different opinion, but I don't feel guilty.

I think McCachia have won the fight. Yeah. Again, the score in, you know, in a fight like that really does come down to a lot of subjectiveness to, right? like the first round right like Volcanovsky drops him and then Mankachev you know basically wins the rest of the round you know but how much did that

drop that big punch you know how much did that count for the round right if it's boxing okay now it's you know 10 a round so you know this scoring is just a it's a fucking mess man it's such a hard thing to score anyway you know like I'm not sure that there

is a right way to do it. I love the way the verdict scorecards are doing it. I don't know if you see them on Instagram or Twitter or whatever, but I seem to agree with them the vast majority of the time, even though I think they had Volcanovsky winning this fight. But, you know, boy, I wish there was something we could do about these scorecards. You know, like just consistent across the board, we know, like in wrestling or football, or, you know, I guess not boxing, but, you know, in so many other sports, like, you know, who's winning, you know, why they're winning.

In this sport, we just can't seem to figure it out. Well, I still, I mean, I don't want to turn this into a scoring discussion, but I think ultimately my biggest issue is always going to be the 10-9-must system. It's just not built for him a day. It's just not. I don't, I've got it a lot. Especially over a five-minute round. Yeah, and a five-minute round and a five-minute round, and oftentimes a three-round fight. Like, that's also horseshit.

Like the 10-9 scorecard could mean the difference between winning and losing on a three-rate. You don't have 10 rounds like you do in boxing to make up for one round. You lose one round. Well, you're basically like you have to get this one. And that's not a good outcome to me. And this is a 10-9 system in MMA just does not work. It never has worked. I don't know that I have the perfect solution.

But yeah, I've never enjoyed the 10-9 must system, especially like you said, five-minute round. And then you got to score to 10-9. and we talked about the little differences in this fight where it went 10-9 one way or the other, but it's stupid that we only have the 10-9 to go by. Yeah, yeah. Dude, I think you're exactly right on. You know, you're talking about five minutes.

So many things happen. You get so many different skills and positions available, and you get one point for the whole round. Yeah, it's kind of fucking ridiculous. And I mean, even though it's a different sport, I know boxing has a lot of issues. as well, but I'll give you a quick example about, like, the differences. Like, when Jake Paul fought Anderson, so it was an eight-round fight, wasn't as deep.

But I actually had Anderson up. I think it was close going into like that last seventh, I think the seventh round. It was close. I think it might have had three-three at that point. I know a lot of people disagree with they had Jake up. Here's what happened, though. Jake got that knockdown in the round seven, or maybe it was round. I can't remember what it was close.

And then Jake won that round and won the last one. Then to me it was clear. It was done. Jake Paul won the fight. Like it was not a question to me. He got a 10-8 round because he knocked Anderson down and then he won the last one or whatever it was. But if that was only a five-round fight, I might have had a completely controversial scorecard because I thought I had Anderson up like three to do it. Over eight rounds, Jake Paul clearly won the fight.

And I understand boxing is, don't get me wrong. Boxing has some really controversial stupid scorecards as well. But at least in that regard, you can oftentimes make up for like a bad score early and then make up for it late because you have 10 rounds to work or nine, eight rounds to work. or nine, eight rounds to work, whatever. Again, three-round fight, you know, one-round difference of just a bad scorecard and you're a split decision or, you know, look what happened in the earlier fight with Alonzo Menefield, you know, his fight ended up in a draw because of a point deduction. There's all kinds of things that can happen. So, but to the bigger point to what you're saying, Matt, I totally agree about in a five-minute round, we got to boil that down to a 10-9.

That just seems like bullshit to me. Yes. And I don't know. the people that are making these different scoring criteria, you know, I think they're just kind of all over the place, man. And, you know, I don't know if the judges don't get it,

but even if the judges do get it, like it's just not good practice, you know? Like, yeah, we could talk about it all day. I don't think we want to get too deep in this discussion. We could certainly do an entire podcast on this discussion. And, but it seems like a fruitless argument at this point. I mean,

we've been talking about this for how many years now. How many fights have we seen that are just ridiculous? And, you know, I've been involved in my damn self. And you just, you don't know what to do, you know, like you can feel like you're winning and, and you're not. So, you know, it's just part of the sport that we got to deal with now. Yeah. Real quick before we get out of here, Matt, this is going to kind of turn into an ask Matt

Brown segment right now because in the aftermath of the fight, Dan Hooker drops some pretty, you know, out there allegations against Islam Makach of accusing him of using an IV to rehydrate after the weigh-ends. Now, again, let's just say all this. This is allegedly, this is Dan Hooker making these allegations, not anyone from a commission. I reached out to Usada. They gave me a statement today and they basically said, you know, we investigate all, you know, potential, you know, illegalities, but, you know, they're going to look into whatever. They have not said that Islam did anything wrong. And I want to be clear about that. We have no proof. whatsoever that Islam Makachev did anything wrong.

Even if he got an IV, it doesn't necessarily mean he did anything wrong because there are instances where you can take an IV under USADA and under doctors, you know, orders and under a TUE at a therapy of use exemption where you can't have it. So let me just eliminate all that with this conversation. I don't want to get into allegations because it's pointless

because we don't have any proof. Here's my question to you, Matt, and this is why I want to bring this up, because you come from an era before you sign, where fighters used to routinely do IVs. And I used to go to fighters' rooms to do interviews after a way in and they'd be getting an IV while I'm interviewing them in the chair. So I know, like, that was a...

And then, of course, USADA has taken that away and they've changed it. I know there's, like, a little bit more wiggle room, I guess, now for IVs, the amount you can get things like this. But again, you know, they try to more or less ban it. Can you get... Just from, like, an athletic perspective, can you kind of give me a sense of how much or how little those IVs? actually do help you or don't help you because you've had to go through both.

You've had to go through the years where you could. I don't know if you did use IVs. I'm just saying like you could and now you can't. So can you give me a sense of like the difference? No, I did use IVs every time back in the day. I got to the point where I would do my own IVs. Like I actually went and learned how to stick myself and I'd have my IV ready and I wouldn't have to wait on a nurse or anything.

I'd just do it myself. And then come to find out, you know, your veins are actually like pretty collapsed. when you're that dehydrated and it's kind of hard to find it. I poke myself multiple times a few times. I'd be sticking it sitting there in the hotel room, poking myself over and over. But I would always end up getting it. But anyway, you know, so from what I understand

is the IVs help you immediately within like a couple hours and they rehydrate you quicker than you would just drinking. But over a 24-hour period, it doesn't actually change anything anyway. Now, that's what the scientific community is going to tell you. You know, the research that has been done, that's what it has shown. Like, your rehydration is basically identical at 24 hours, whether you did IV or not.

Now, the feeling that you get after getting that IV and you feel refreshed pretty quickly and your weight comes back and you're able to digest foods and you're peeing again, I think it is a good feeling. You know, even if it's just a placebo thing, like, it is a good feeling and it is beneficial mentally. I don't think it actually makes a difference, though, and I've dropped, you know, pretty significant amounts of weight with and without IVs. And I don't think that ultimately it does make a difference.

Is it interesting here you say that because that's why I think that's one misconception that you're rehydrating and it's making you better what you're saying and to understand that you're just rehydrating quicker. It's not that you're rehydrating better that you have an IV and your opponent doesn't have an IV, so you're dehydrated. It's just you're rehydrating quicker. Yeah, exactly.

And again, maybe, you know, to me it never made a difference. Maybe for some guys it does make a difference to be refreshed better, right? Because now you're back to, you know, whether it's 80, 90, 100% or whatever of yourself, you know, within a couple hours versus within, you know, know, maybe six, seven, eight hours without having an IV. So maybe that makes a difference.

Maybe you digest your food a little better. You know, I'm not sure. But for me, I never noticed the difference, to be honest. And when they took away IVs, it didn't bother me at all. So you don't use IVs now, obviously, and it doesn't, you don't really feel like an infection that much differently. Exactly, yeah. I haven't used them since USADA and it didn't bother me at all.

You know, since they illegalized them. I think USADA was in and we were still using them. and then they actually said you can't do it. And also from what I've heard, and I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard multiple people say they can't actually even test for you doing an IV. They say that they test for the plastics, and I've heard that that's all bullshit.

I know some guys, not going to name any names, obviously, but I know that there's ways you can also get IVs using a glass. because the actual plastic that they claim that they're able to detect comes from the bag, not from the line. So you still use a plastic or rubber line, but you would use the actual liquid to be contained in glass file. Yeah. So, like, you know, there's ways around it anyway. But again, like, I haven't even fucked with it since Usada made it illegal. and it didn't bother me at all.

So, and again, I want to be clear, like, we're not saying this is everybody. You're, to be from your personal experience, so obviously someone else made. But to be clear, and this is the part I want to clarify, that the difference, like, by fight night, because I think there's this misconception, and I'm not trying to condemn Dan Hooker. I like Dan Hooker. I want to be clear about that. I'm not trying to condemn Dan Hooker. I'm just using him as an example.

The way it's being made out, and this is not him, by the way. I've heard this before, too. IVs were like this superpower juice. Like you would take an IV and you would turn into like Superman. But if you didn't have it, you would, it was like, I know I feel bad to use it. Like it was like Vitor on TRT versus Vitor not on TRT. Remember how you look at all deflated? Like people are equating it to that.

Like you take an IV and you're, you know, you're fucking muscled up and, you know, you're ready to fight. It's not that. I want to be, that's what I'm trying to get. It's not, like, it's not some super juice that you're taking and suddenly you're a ultimate badass again because you, you're. take an IV and 24 hours later, you're at such a huge competitive advantage over your opponent. That's my understanding and that's my belief also.

Again, like you said, there may be people that feel differently about, and the other part too is like, you know, placebo effect is real and it's just as strong as the real thing. So if it makes people believe that they're actually getting benefit from it, then they're probably actually getting benefit from it. So, you know, and on top of that, you know, there is other things that they can put in IVs, too, you know, which I don't really know a ton about. But I know that there is different cocktails and things that they can put in IVs that can potentially be performance enhancing that may be, again, I don't really know the research on that. Like, I know rehydration levels, they have done legit studies on it. as far as I know where your rehydration levels are the same after 24 hours.

But, you know, did they also check, you know, your aminos, your electrolytes, your, I don't know, you know, B12, you know, things like this, which may actually play a part in the long run over 24 hours. So, you know, again, it's hard to tell. But to me, I've never noticed a difference. And that's about as far as I can comment on it because I can only go off my own experience. Well, and the other thing I want to mention, I want to ask Matt, is because you said it recovers quicker. Now, I remember years ago, I was at the UFC was like 83 in Montreal when Michael Bisping was fighting Charles McCarthy on that car. Now, I remember I went to dinner that night with the guys from American top team, and Charles was on that team.

And I was at dinner with them and we sat down. And Charles was trying to eat some pasta after weigh-ins, like an hour or two after weigh-ins. And he couldn't eat. He just felt sick because he'd gone through the weight cut. He felt sick to his stomach and he just couldn't eat. I remember watching when Rich Franklin won the middleweight title against Evan Tanner, rest in peace Evan Tanner. Years ago, I remember right after the way in because that was, you know, I had known

Rich very well at that point being in Cincinnati. I remember talking to him right afterwards and he was eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. He was trying to get some nutrition back in his body like fast. And I think it was peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and like drinking water. So everyone's got their own method. And like with Charles, he just could not, like he felt sick. Am I right in assuming that really the biggest benefit is just, it's kind of like when you get sick, sick,

and they give you an IV to rehydrate your body, it's just a quicker, faster way to rehydrate your body versus just drinking water or even like pediolite or something. Is that fairly, it's just a quicker way to recover from a weight cut than let's say necessarily it's going to give you an advantage in the fight. Is that kind of a fair way to say it? That's as far as I can tell. And I felt this sickness before too, right?

You know, because like sometimes, like for instance, before you saw it, right? Like we would have the IV, you know, back at the hotel, right? We weren't doing it. And, you know, they would take you to the way ends. And it would be a good hour or so before you get back to your room, right? You have to do post-fight stuff. Sometimes even longer than that because you'd have to do, you know, doctor stuff, medicals, interviews, fighter meeting with Dana.

You know, there's all kinds of different things you might have to do. So it might be over an hour or so before you get back to the, room. So, you know, we're obviously like you're trying to rehydrate straight away. I'm not usually able to eat a meal like an actual meal for at least two or three hours, you know, like a pasta or something. So I'm not sure, you know, when Charles was trying to do this, maybe if it was even later on the day or earlier, maybe he was having major problems with dehydration. But if you were trying to eat a meal too quickly before you're hydrated, like you're, you are going to get sick. Like, you're not going to be able to handle it well.

So maybe getting an IV gets it, gets you to be able to digest and hold food down sooner because now your stomach would get hydrated quicker. That doesn't necessarily make sense to me either, though, because you, you know, you drink water and it goes straight to your stomach. So I'm not totally sure on all that. But again, for me, I just don't notice a big difference. I mean, I just, the one difference that I did notice was I would get back to weight quicker, right? Like when we go back to October, I'm like usually check your weight, you know, just for fun.

Like how much did I put on? I put on 15, 20 pounds sometimes, you know, within, you know, two or three hours of weighing in, right? I'm weighing 185 to 189 pounds after weighing in 171, two hours before. with the IVs like I mean it's pretty obvious right it's going to happen like your weight's going to come back on a lot quicker your body's going to soak that up a lot quicker than when you you start just drinking water yeah so and again I want to be the last thing I'll say on this is this is from your pretty again ultimately on fight nights when you stepped into the cage it didn't you

you don't you you're not like you're not at 80% now without the IV whereas you were at a 100% with the I mean it wasn't anything that dramatic for you like now under usada versus years ago under like for you personally stepping in on fight night it doesn't ultimately make a difference in that like giving you a competitive advantage in the fight now talking about like after the way i'm saying on fight night have you ever felt like that much of a difference no that's exactly that'd be my answer is no like i feel basically the same on fight night yeah i just think that's important to know again i know it's just you i don't want to say it's everybody but And also, again, as you said, you can also cocktail other things, potentially that could be whatever.

But just based on a general rehydration IV, I just think that's important. Because, again, when these allegations go out there and they're unfounded, and again, I'm not trying to condemn damn hooker, but it's just a dangerous game to play. Because immediately everyone jumps on and says because Yusata says it's illegal that, oh, he must be doing something terribly wrong. And not necessarily. And we don't even know that he did anything wrong. but even if he did anything wrong, did it really give him that much? Like, did it mean the difference

between him winning and losing? I just, again, as you're saying, it's not like the night after you're suddenly like, again, I want people to be clear, it's not super juice. You're not turning into Captain America because you got an IV and suddenly you're superpowered

and, you know, the next night you are, that's all I'm trying to get across here. And the last thing I'll add to that is from experiences that I've heard from other fighters, I've heard both ways, actually. I've heard people said they felt worse after an IV that it made them bloated, right? And I would guess that those people probably took like too much IV, right? And, you know, they probably did like three or four bags or something and just wanted to, you know, just overdid it.

Like fighters are extremists. This is a normal thing. And I've heard people say that, you know, after they weren't allowed to do IVs anymore, they didn't feel right ever again. And so I've heard both ends of that spectrum for me again. Maybe I think a lot of it just comes down to, you know, your own focus, right? Like if you're thinking about it, then again, there's a lot of placebo effect probably going on. The mental side, right? If you're, it's like when they, it's like giving you a pill and saying this is going to make you better and then taking it away and you think you're, if you think you're sick.

It's just that that's exactly like you have a mental, there's a mental connection. The IV makes me better. so I need the IV when in reality it may not make it as but in your own head. Exactly. Exactly. And they, like, placebo effect is crazy, man. I just heard about a study not too long ago where they like gave people creatine and then they gave other people like some sugar powder or fake creatine and told them

they're having creatine. And both groups ended up gaining the same amount of strength. And I think maybe even the same amount of muscle, right? Like it was, you know, just the placebo effect is fucking real, man. And so whatever you believe. The mind, like I think people take for discount on how much the mind affects your body. Like it is, it is insane. I mean, I've read stories and studies where people talk about like, the way you think

and the way your brain processes information just completely alters how your body reacts. Like you can, there's, I know there's, I mean, you can, I mean, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, Matt, but like, you know as well as I do. you can make yourself sick by thinking you're sick. Like, you can think, like, I got something wrong, and then your body reacts. Like, that's just a real part of how powerful the brain is. Yep, yep. And you can make yourself feel better when you are sick.

But I just use fine. Yeah. And, yeah. So it's amazing. That's how I was during COVID. I got COVID. And I was like, no, I'm not going to let COVID get me. Fuck this.

And then I just, like, made myself, like, get out of bed and, like, do shit, even though I probably shouldn't have been doing anything. But I was like, no, I'm not going to let it. get me and you know i was sick for like i'm being sick for you know about day and a half and then you know i kind of started getting back to normal but uh i'm that's how i am every time i'm sick like i refuse to be sick like i refuse it like i just like anytime i'm sick i'm like no i'm not like a child i'm like i'm not sick and then you know yeah so i'm that's how i am when i'm so whenever i do get sick i'm just like no i'm not i'm not sick i'm fine i'm not bad at all

yeah i try to do that i think there is there is also like a point of the mission returns when you're sick. That's true. You know, you need the actual rest. Well, I'm also, I'm also not a professional fighter going in the gym trying to push my body to the breaking limit or anything. So I have a slightly different. Me sitting at my computer and typing a story is slightly different than you going in the gym and sparring with savages and trying to get ready for a fight sick. I think it's a slightly different cause here. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I can do the interview or whatever. All right. We're going to get out of here. Of course, again, big announcement today. Matt Brown is officially back May 13th against

Courtney McGee. We'll have a lot more conversation about that. As I said earlier in the show, I think we are going to start a new segment week to week on the show called Ask Matt Brown Advice. Again, do not ask him who he's fighting next. Do not ask where he's fighting. Do not ask him What was the hardest fight of this career? We're not talking about that. But you got questions about nutrition. You got questions about, you know,

I'm not going to, I don't want you to talk about it right now, but I'll throw you a Matt Brown question for future. Fighters love coffee. You own your own coffee brand. the immortal coffee. I'm curious about coffee, like using that before or during

or after training. Doesn't affect you at all? Don't answer that now, Matt. I'm actually legitimately curious because I know fighters, I know some fighters are full on, like, obsessed with coffee. Like, it's like a religion with coffee. I'm curious about that.

Because I don't drink coffee, by the way. I don't drink coffee. So I'm curious. I drink caffeine, but I do not drink coffee. So I'd be curious about that. So, yeah, questions, advice, things like that. Fight camp stuff. We've got Fight Camp Matt Brown coming up right now.

We'll talk a lot about that over the next couple of months. So if you've got questions like that, please hit us up. Obviously, check us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world MMA Fighting.com. Matt, you've got a fight now. So any sponsors, anybody you want to shout out, as we will do every week leading into your fight. As always, follow me on Instagram, Twitter. I am the immortal Facebook, the immortal Matt Brown.

Check out my sponsor's routine. R-O-O-O-T-I-N-E-C-O.O. it's personalized nutrition, they take DNA, they take your blood, and they build a multivitamin based off your deficiencies and your DNA. Also things, you know, that maybe you process better than others and vice versa.

So definitely check them out. And also check out theemortal coffee.com. You can check out my Airbnb, which I plugged earlier. And I think that's about all I got today, bro. All right. Well, we will see you guys next week for another edition of the fighter versus the rider. Thanks so much for tuning in.

We'll see you then. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.