MMA Fighting - Fighter vs Writer: Matt Brown Argues Jon Jones Needs to Fight Tom Aspinall, Not Alex Pereira Plus Who Is Left for Merab Dvalisvhili?

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to UFC 320 including Alex Pereira tearing through Magomed Ankalaev in just 80 seconds, which was a worst case scenario for Ankalaev. With the win Pereira is calling for a fight against Jon Jones but Brown makes his argument that Jones needs to fight Tom Aspinall and nobody else. Plus we’ll discuss Merab Dvalishvili’s latest win over Cory Sandhagen and if there’s anybody really left for him to fight at bantamweight? Plus much more Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer. I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We are now living in a post-UFC 320 world. where Alex Pereira is once again champion

and Marab de Walshvili is still champion and Yuri Poroshka is a madman. So pretty solid event overall. Yeah, I guess other than the main event pretty well about what we expected, right? I think we have most people, including me and you, called them pretty close and then except I guess me and you got the main event wrong,

which we've been kind of even a lot lately on that, I think. Yeah, I, listen, what Alex Prayer did on Saturday was unreal. Like, he, he treated Maga Man and Goliah with zero respect. Like, he just went out there and was like, because we heard all the stories, you know, he had, he had problems in his training camp. He wasn't at his best. And, you know, we hear that, you know, when you time that kind of stuff comes out, you always have to take it with a grain of salt because you're like,

that sounds like excuses. Sure, certainly looked like whatever excuses Alex Pereer had for the last one worked out because he just went in there and, like, he just, he just disrespected, and I mean that in, like, a good way. But he just disrespected Anka Lai who just went out there was like, I'm going to knock this dude out. And he blasted him early. And Goliath dove for a leg and he just got elbowed to hell in like 80 seconds. It was over. Wild performance.

That was very surprising, right? And, man, you could not have written a better story, you know? Like, if you're the UFC, I mean, this is, like, it's a perfect script, right? like Alex is back on top. Ankelyev, the guy that you kind of, I mean, you know, he was a good, really, really good fighter championship level. Like, you know, I think he's, I want to see a third fight personally. Like, I think he got kind of thrown off guard there by Alex's aggression.

But if you're the UFC, I mean, could you be any happier? Like, you got nothing but big things for Alex now. Alex, like we talked about after he lost, like so much goes away because Alex had become like a legitimate star for the UFC, a draw for the UFC. And we were talking pretty heavily about him fighting John Jones. And that was during when John Jones was still heavyweight champion. And people were like, oh, you can't fight John Jones. John needs to fight Tom Aspenol, so on and so forth. And we'll get to John Jones.

I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit. But it doesn't erase the result of the first one. But when you terminate a guy in 80 seconds, it certainly answers a whole lot of questions. I'm with you. Like, I think eventually we see a rematch, but when you lose in that kind of fashion, 80 seconds, like it's not like he went out there. Like, if Anka Lai did that to Pereira the first time

and then Pereira did it back to him, I'd say, well, we got to run it back a third time. But the first fight was, you know, 48, 47, 49, 46. It was a good performance from Ankeli, but it wasn't like he just went out there and mauled Alex Pereira. Like, he won, but it wasn't like he just beat up and Alex just absolutely got decimated.

And then for Alex, just to go out there and completely walks through him, like it just feels like night and day. To be fair, I mean, And that's how Enka Lived wins like 90% of his fights too, right? So, you know, I mean, that's just his style. You know, again, I want to see a third, man. I think it, the thing that sucks for Enka Live is, right? Dude, how many fights is he going to have to win to get back to a title shot?

Even if it's not Alex holding the title anymore, if he moves up to heavyweight or maybe loses to, you know, one of the other guys is probably going to be Yuri or Alberg, right? you know i think allberg's probably got the best shot right now um but it's like what is the ankle i've going to have to do when you know like he just won a championship fight like a few months ago you know and it's like he's going to have to he's going to have to go back to the drum board and win a bunch of fights and it sucks for him i think i think if you're ankeliah like this is worst case scenario for ankylai like if he would have lost by decision or if he would have

hung, it would have been a back and board battle and he gets knocked out in the fourth round or fifth round, we could just say, well, you know what, you lost but man, you'll be right back in there. But to get just to get walked through like that in 80 seconds, like that's tough to come back from in anybody. And we all know, I mean, you know

I never say it publicly, but there's a reason why they kind of made him wait for a title shot. They weren't exactly excited about him becoming champion. And this was worst case scenario for Rankalaya. Like literally the worst thing that could have happened was to go out there just get absolutely terminated in 80 seconds. And the way that Alex did it too, I mean, he just walked straight to him, like no regard

at all for what Enkulive was going to do. And that's kind of, I thought it was a brilliant game plan, you know? I mean, Enklaev is going to try a decision you or, you know, he's going to be out technical you and, you know, kind of stall, you know, and take his time and, you know, be a little, I don't know, you know what I'm saying. He's not going to come after you like that. Like, that's not the type of fight he's looking for. for and Pereira knew that, I think, and he went straight after him and put ankle

on his heels straight away. And I thought it was a brilliant game plan, you know, and it takes balls to, you know, in a title fight, it takes balls to go out there and perform that, too, to execute that game plan. So you got to give mad props to Pereira, but, man, I mean, you just can't, I just keep thinking about, like, I don't know how you could write a better script for the UFC. you know in the back of my head there's a little bit of conspiracy theories like did they poison ink of lives water or something you know you know i don't think that happened or anything but i mean if you're the ufc i mean that's you know that is the script that you write you know like that's like yeah you put go ahead no you you talk i know you said this before that's why i want to mention this you said before like you don't think in reality the oz he's rooting for one guy over the other but

In a superstar case, whether it's Jones, Connor, and in this case, Pereira, like, it's better for the UFC. I mean, just like Ilyath Topori being champion or even, no, I mean, I think Marab is becoming a, you know, a draw on his own right. But, like, I'm sure the UFC would like, Sean O'Malley is a bigger star. Like, there's a reason why they were, that's why, like, they at least gave him the one fight with Cheeto Vera. Like, let's get him Chito Vera. Let's not rush him into the Marab fight because they probably knew it was going to happen to Marab fight. But I think you're right. Like this is, this is, this was, like you said, I don't think they necessarily root for it,

but I guarantee there was a couple of fist bumps in the back when, when prayer just went out there and ran through and Goliath. Yeah, I guess when we say root for it, you know, they're not like, they're not back there. I guess I don't believe the conspiracy theories that go through my head, right? Like I don't think that they're back there like, hey, and Kaliav, you know, do you want an extra million? dollars like we can take care of you buddy like i don't think that that's going on but but like are that you know when that fight starts is dana not is dana not sitting there saying all right prayer fucking get it done motherfucker like we need you here buddy like a hundred percent right and i think just they've just ran a business long enough and they know that no matter what

happens like they're going to be cool right like like they could turn ankle i've into a star if they need to, right? Like, they can, they can promote anybody in the way that they want. Yeah, and I think that's all it comes down to, right? Like, they don't really, they may not be rooting, but at the same time, like, they know they can survive anything, but like, like, this sport's going to go on. Yeah, I think you learn that in business. If you do business long enough, you just realize, like, it's going to keep going forward.

Like there's nothing Like if you put your your head to it Like there's nothing that's going to stop you Yeah And it's like I said It's the best case in error for the UFC Because like we just taught we just were kind of talking about a couple weeks ago There was a big conversation going on like

Does the UFC have a superstar problem? Because like it seemed like a lot of the big names had been losing Or not around anymore and we were like We got to the point where like what was two weeks ago We're talking about Connor and Rhonda headlined the White House card Which you know was this not is this 2016? going on. But Pereira's a better, I mean, like it or not, and this is not me knocking Anklea. I think Anka Lai is a tremendous fighter. I was advocating for him to get a title shot a year before he got a

title shot. But like it or not, Pereira is a bigger draw. Pereira is a more magnetic personality. Pereira has a style that's fan-friendly. You know, him, you know, even like he's, kind of broken through in a way that a lot, like, almost in an Anderson-Silva way where, like, he doesn't speak English. And he just has a style that's so entertaining and so fun. and just the way he comes out and mean mugs people and he's just like a terrifying force of nature in there. He's kind of transcended in a way that a lot of international stars don't when you can't speak the language.

I think that's what, honestly, I think that's what held Jose Aldo back for years because, like, he was a terror in a cage and he was awesome, but he just didn't have, like,

he didn't have that personality, even not speaking English, and it took Connor coming along to get him all fired up, and then obviously we saw it, we know it happened in that fight, but I think Anderson was the last, the last guy that didn't speak English, you know, because like even Khabibb, like Kibibb learned English. Like, you know, just even if it was rudimentary English, him saying, I'm going to smash

everybody or I'm going to, you know, send location. Just like Chamaaya, like Shamaia, like Shemaya doesn't speak great English, but he says enough to where you're like, I like this guy. He's like, smash everybody, smash everybody. I think that language barrier does hurt some international guys, which is why I think a lot of those guys do learn English, honestly. But Pereira hasn't. Pereer hasn't.

He's never been like, oh, I need to know. He doesn't. But he's just got that personality and that kind of style in the cage, kind of like Anderson, where he just goes out there and just walks through people. Pereira is also the type of guy. Like, he might know English fluently, and we just don't know it, too, right? He comes across me like that kind of guy. But there's also a kind of stigma, too, when they don't speak your language, you know?

And there's, you know, I think when we, especially when we think about these Russians, right? Like, you know, when they speak in different language and they only use, you know, like Khabi only saying, I'm going to smash him or, Hamza saying that and we're I don't know it adds like a certain little factor that you can't really describe where where you're like dude that's a real motherfucker there you know a little bit of fear and stuff but yeah you know Pereira has the it factor right like that's all it is you can't even it's not even definable thing right he's not like some charismatic guy he's not some great speaker he doesn't have um you know he's not a coner right trash talk or anything

there's just certain guys that they just have an energy about them and Alex has it, you know? Ancolaev, to be fair, doesn't really. And I respect the shit out of that. You know, like I'm a huge fan of Ancolaia personally. I mean, I actually enjoy the way that he fights to some extent.

You know, I respect his skill. I respect that he's humble and keeps to himself and goes out, does his business, and goes back to, you know, his country. And, you know, I, I love and respect all that, you know, because I'm a martial artist. But I understand also for the everyday fan, that's not what they're looking for. They want to see Just Bleed and, you know, and Connor McGregor antics and shit.

So I get both sides. Yeah. I mean, but this is like, like I said, I think this is worst case scenario for Ankellaa because, like, he wasn't the chosen one anyways. And now he got absolutely obliterated in 80 seconds. Like, I think him and, him and Yeri probably makes a lot of sense on. paper because Yuri has two losses to Alex. It's real hard to put Alex, but you're real hard to put it. I think Yuri look great, but it's real

hard to put him back in there when he has two knockout losses to Pereira already. So it's like, in a perfect world, you do Ankylae of Yeri, but I'm not even sure they would do that because I'm like, do they want to, because I think Ankylai would have a great chance of beating Yeri. Do they want to take away Yeri's? Like, Yeri becomes kind of like a star in his own right, even though he's not a champion.

Like, it's going to be, like, Angoliath is going to have, I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm and names I've had at this point. But, like, I feel like it's going to be, it's going to be someone lower in the rankings. Like, he's not going to get the matchups he wants right now. Like, he's going to have to take a couple of kind of like boring fights, like an apex made of it or something. And it's not going to be against the guys you think he's going to fight.

And I agree. Yeah, they're probably going to give him some, uh, you know, opportunities for other guys instead they're hoping that, you know, somebody else steps up and beats them. And it's going to be tough for them to find that guy. But, you know, to be honest, like, Yuri didn't look amazing, right? I mean, the third round was phenomenal. And, you know, I even tweet, I was like, he's my fucking hero. Like, I love that third round.

It was absolutely savage. But he didn't look like anybody that's going to beat an Encalive type or a Pereira, right? He did that to Cleo Roundtree, in all respect to Cleo Roundtree. You know, Gileo was piecing him up in the first two rounds. Maybe not piecing him up, but like he was winning, right? He clearly won the first two rounds. And Yeri didn't do anything. phenomenal to step up in third round outside of like,

okay, I'm gonna take your punches and I'm gonna walk forward, right? And I'm, I might move my head a little bit here and there, but you know, he's like, I'm just gonna bite down my mouthpiece, walk forward, Chris Lieben style and start throwing punches. That to me like doesn't, like you're not doing that to Alex Pereira. You know what I mean? You're not,

you're probably not doing that to Engalaev. It'd be interesting to see him and Enkolaev in that sense because Ankelaev isn't really the type to bite down his mouthpiece and do that. So I think it makes for a very interesting fight. But I agree with you. I think they put Ankylaev against, you know, a number 10 guy or something or a 14 guy that's... I just thought of it.

Dominic Reyes. I think there's a name they can do because Dominic just got knocked out. Dominic's a name, but he's not like, you know, obviously at this point, like after he lost to Allberg, like he's kind of in a tough spot, veteran, something like that. Or maybe like a Kalil Roundtree, a guy who's already lost to the champion, lost in the Uri. Like, they're not... I don't think they're going to give him... because there's a chance he goes out there and beats yerry. And then it's like, well, you got to give him a title shot.

I think they want to keep Ankleye as far away from a title shot or like, because when he got it, everyone's like, man, he deserved it. Like, why are you not giving Ankelyav to shot? And so it's almost like they kind of got forced into it. And then he became champion, which like I said, like it or not, it was a worst case scenario for them. And then him losing, once again, worked out well for the UFC. But I don't think they're going to, I don't think they're giving me a yearie and be like, well,

one win, and he's right back in the top. They're going to make him fight like the number 10 guy, the number 11. guy. Yeah. You know, Dominic Reyes coming off a law, something like that. And they're going to make him work his way back.

So like, and we don't know what prayer. We're going to tell me about what Pereira's going to do next in a second, but it almost feels like he's going to have to go on another run, almost like he did before where he's undeniable, because he just doesn't have that fan-freeing style. He doesn't have that popularity.

Like, like, every time I talk to Marab's head coach John Wood, he's like, if Sean O'Malley wins one fight, they're probably going to try to find a way to put him back in there. Because Sean's such a star, even if he keeps a star, keeps losing them Brad. They're going to keep throwing them back in there. And I'm like, you're probably right. But Ankelya's not that. Ankelai doesn't have that appeal to where you're like,

oh, it's just like, I don't want to turn it to a Connor conversation, but every time Connor was coming back or said he was coming back, we always kind of joked like he's always one win away from a title shot because he's such a star, the U.S. he would just put him in that position even if he didn't earn it. Ankelaia is like the anti-Connor. Like he doesn't have that charisma. He doesn't have that charisma. He doesn't have that star power. He doesn't have that style even. So it's almost like, okay dude you're going to have to like work john fitch style like you're going to have to go on like another impressive winning streak to you back there now i gotten interested for you an interesting one for you uh let me hear your thoughts on this i think ankle live should

fight michael vending page michael vending page coming off a win of course uh if he goes and beats encolive that propels him and you know we male michael vennon page he's a little bit older but he's he could be a star right like he's absolutely the type of guy that could be a He goes out and beats Enka Live. It's a big enough name that he could go out and really make a name beating Enk Alive and start maybe even You want him to go up two weight classes? He's going to middleweight right now.

He's a middleweight right now. You want him to go up to Light Heavy League? Oh, yeah, I forgot. Wait, didn't he just fight it Welter or Middleweight? He fought it middleweight, yeah. He fought it middleweight too like a couple three times now, like Jared Cannon-Near. But he's not Light Heavyweight. That would be a big jump for him.

Boy, I'm an idiot, man. I was just thinking of a middleweight. Yeah, yeah. I was just looking at the rankings there. I don't think it's, I don't think like a middleweight, just a random middleweight coming up. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility though,

because like you said, I don't think they're going to give Angola. I don't think they're going to give Angoliath fights he wants. Like he's going to call for Yuri and they're like, great, here, go fight Dominic Reyes in Brazil. They're not going to give him to fight Z wants right now.

Not just, okay. I went to the right rankings now, the middleweight or light, heavy weight. I keep forgetting, because I still think of prayer as a middle weight. That's why I went there. Anyway, um, look at this, man. If you go to the number four to number nine, all of them are coming off a loss. Yeah. Hold on. I got to sneeze. Did he say it? Ah, all right. I'm about to sneeze for like five minutes. Anyway, um,

so we got Khalil Roundtree, Yon Blakowicz, however you say, Black of which, um, Jamal Hill, Alexander Rakeach, Dominic Reyes, and Volkan, all coming off a loss in the top 10. That's got to be rare, right? How often are like five of the top 10 guys coming off losses? I mean, it's a light heavy way, so it doesn't shock me because it's not exactly

the strongest division in the world. Right. And I know Rackage has a fight, but Rackettch already fought Ankelyev, and it was not a great fight. So you kind of take him out of there. I mean, I guess, like I said, I think Dominic Reyes is probably a decent choice in terms of like who's out there with a name and not really a threat to like, you know, you're going to have to beat him to get back into a title shot because or Khalil, like that kind of fight.

Because they're not going to, I just don't think they're going to, even though Yeri's not getting a title shot, I don't think, they're not going to, because if he beats Yiri, there's really nowhere else for him to go. You beat Dominic Reyes. You say, oh, great, you beat Dominic Reyes. Now you've got to go fight Vulcan or now you got to go fight. Right. Yeah, you got to go fight Khalil or you got to go fight Jamal Hill when he comes back. Yeah, I was going to say Jamal Hill. I don't know how long it's going to be until he's back.

But, I mean, you know, that seems to make the most sense to me out of all those. I just don't, is he out for a little while right now? Is that what's going to be wrong? I know he's out for a little while, but I don't think it's going to be like, I mean, I don't think we're going to stay inky alive until next year anyway. So I think, you know, probably early next year probably wouldn't be the worst idea if he ends up going like, you know, January, February, March, somewhere around that time kind of period. All right.

Okay. So you get one choice as to who. what's his name? Ankylai fights next. Who do you take him? I'm going Dominic Reyes. I think that's a good choice. Name.

It could potentially main event like an apex card or like a, you know, that kind of car where it's not really going to be a big deal, but like still rank guys' names and both come off losses. I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I'm going to say Yerry, but, you know, again, I don't think the UFC's going to do it. And if the UFC's not going to do it, then I say Kaleo.

I think that's a good one too. I think Kaleel O'Rez would be a good choice. thinking because you're not going to eliminate a title contender by doing that. So I think that makes a lot of sense. Now, when it comes to Alex Pereira, obviously we got Carlos Olberg out there. He just had the big win over Dominic Grace. He's on like a nine-fight win streak or whatever. But of course, afterwards, Alex Pereira is like he was originally going to call out John Jones for the White House card.

Obviously, we know the news, and I just want to send out my condolences to John Jones and his family. His older brother, Arthur Jones, passed away. I mentioned on Twitter. I actually was at a UFC event years ago, and I actually met Chandler and Arthur. two brothers who were in the NFL. They were with John in an event. And, like, incredibly nice guys. Both of them were incredibly nice guys.

39 years old. I mean, that's just unbelievably tragic. I don't care what happened. It's just incredibly sad. So I thought that was so classy of Alex afterwards to, like, say, let's give a moment of silence to John Jones and his family. Really classy. But he did admit afterwards his original plan was to call out John Jones for the White House card. And I think, like, I understand the argument for Carlin.

Carlos Alberg, I do. But all the obstacles that were in the way of doing Alex and John Jones are gone. Because the biggest argument against that fight when we talked about it a year ago, whatever it was, was John Jones was champion. And everyone's like, you can't put him in there with Alex when you got Tom Aspinall out there. Well, guess what? That problem's been solved. John's no longer the champion.

He's not holding onto a belt. He's not holding a division up by fighting somebody. The UFC would be dumb. I mean remarkably dumb not to book John Jones and Alex prayer Like that is the fight to make That is the only fight to make Because you're not you're not hurting anything

Like no one's gonna cry That Carlos Alberg has to wait for a title shot Or he has to go out and get another win Because it's not like he's on this like Killing streak He just had a really boring decision over Jan Blockowich And then obviously he did knock out Dominic Reyes But like I think him beating Yeri

Or him beating Ankyov or something Like would totally cement him in that spot Pereira John Jones is the fight to make, period. Like that is the fight to make. Interesting. So you got Alex going up to heavyweight, then he has to vacate the light heavyweight title, and now you put Alberg and what, probably Yeri.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. And you eliminate, and you eliminate if Yere wins, then either A, he has to rematch prayer because he's champion, or the division just moves on. If Rera's gone, the division just moves on. Well, you know if Pereira goes up and beats John Jones, he's the biggest star in UFC for a long time, right?

And he does whatever he wants at that point, right? We doubt that that's going to happen. I think it's a, I think the odds would be pretty heavily in John's favor there. You know, my issue there is, you know, I'm still on that. I still feel the same way as I did before. If John comes back, he has to fight Tom Espinole. There's no other good fight to make. But then you kind of get into the debate of, is this a sport or is it entertainment, right?

Entertainment-wise, you know, which I think we talked about a little bit about the White House card period. You know, is this going to be a, you know, make the biggest fights you can or, you know, make relevant fights? And if you're making the biggest fight you can, you go with Alex Pereira, John Jones, 100%, especially if you're Dana and you trust that John Jones is going to make it there on time, or, you know, not go to jail in the meantime or anything, right? But that, I mean, that's by, I think it's a no-brainer in terms of like the biggest fight that you could potentially make. I still think he should fight Tom Aspenal, though. I don't know which, I don't know which is really a bigger fight. You know, I mean, you got to think, like Alex, I know he's a bigger star, but, you know,

John Jones is big enough to carry, you know, whatever fight that he comes back to. And if it's Tom Aspinall, he's fighting for the heavyweight title now. And that makes it as big of a fight as if he's fighting Alex Pereira, just to be fighting Alex Pereira, I think. So here's the question. And I know I have a feeling I know what your answer is going to be. The bigger fight, just because they're both stars, is John and Pereira. because Pereira is his own star and John's obviously a star and so he put those two together and it's a pretty

combustible fight. But you're right, John's going to be an overwhelming favorite to win and I would 1,000% pick him to beat Alex Prair. It's not a knock on Alex. I just think John Jones is a stylistic nightmare. Everything in ankle I was bad for him is a thousand times worse with John Jones. John Jones is a better wrestler. It's just, yeah, it's just, it's dramatically in the other direction.

The thing with the Tom Aspenol fight is I think that's a bigger threat that John loses. Like there's a There is absolutely a world where Tom Aspinall goes out there and knocks John Jones' dick in the dirt Like 1,000% that can happen. Tom is a huge, powerful heavyweight, fast, explosive, huge finishing power.

There is a world where John Jones goes out there and loses legitimately his first fight and it gets absolutely demolished by Tom Aspinall. I don't feel there's that, there's always a threat with Alex Prayer. Alex Prayer has nuclear bombs in both hands. It's possible, but far less likely. So does that weigh on our minds a little bit?

Like, do we want John Jones back for a competitive fight? Or do we just want John Jones back for a big fight? Because those are two different things. That's exactly my point, right? I want the competitive fight, I think, hardcore fans. But that goes exactly right into what I was saying, right? Do we want entertainment? Because what Alex and John is going to do is have a ridiculous buildup, right?

Where everybody's going to be pumped, there's going to be people betting on Alex. There's going to be people, you know, just like Connor going and fighting Floyd, right? There's going to be people like, oh, yeah, Connor's got a chance. I think Alex has a better chance that Connor did against Floyd, by the way. But you get my point, right? Like the matchup is literally the nightmare matchup for Alex Pereira.

Like John is as big, probably bigger. I think probably a little bit bigger than Alex Perry, a heavyweight, certainly bigger, you know, a million times better wrestler. Like there's no possible way in hell that Alex, you know, has wrestled. is to John Jones's level at this point, even if John Jones is out doing cocaine for the last year and then just shows up and fights.

So, you know, but it's so easy for them to sell that, right? UFC's master marketers and promoters. So, like, they're going to sell it and we'll all want to watch it, not just because at the White House, we'll be talking about John Jones, Alex Pereira. So it's certainly the most sellable fight out there. But we know, again, I think the debate is really like, can John Jones carry that same load, you know, being the A side with Tom Aspinall, right? Because you're basically talking about putting an A side and an A side against each other versus an A side. And really, Tom would be a B side, right?

Like he's just not the star that John or Alex is. So it's kind of can John carry that A side? And I think that he can. And so it makes more sense to me on that note. Well, I think what gets forgotten a lot about Tom is that I think the whole John Jones saga made Tom a bigger star. For sure. Because for all the people who just did, like his personalities come out and they've seen him, you know, in public. And, you know, the vast majority of people were saying all John's ducking him. And John literally left the sport to avoid Tom Aspinall. So while I think, while I think the Alex prayer fight is still bigger, because anytime you get, you know,

just like today is literally the anniversary of Connor and Kabee. Like you get two huge stars together. It's always going to be a bigger thing. But I think when you add in Tom being his own, like he's a star on the rise. He's not to the level Alex Perry yet, but he's not like, you know, he's not like, he's not at the bottom of the list. And then you add in the competitive factor, which is there's a world where Tom Aspinall beats John Jones.

I would, I would wager the vast majority of people would pick John to beat Alex versus I don't know that it's that lopsided. Like I think there's a lot of people who would pick John to lose to Tom. And just real quick to touch on your analogy of Connor and Kibb, where you got two A sides fighting each other. I think the difference there is we all knew that Kabeb, the up-and-coming A-side was going to beat Connor, right? Like he was probably, I don't know if he was a favorite,

but he was probably a favorite at the time. Whereas John and Alex, both being A-sides, we know that, like, John's probably going to win this fight. Like it wasn't, I don't think there'll be a lot of debate on who's going to win the fight. And I know you said, like we were talking about Connor and Chandler and you said, you know, it's really a relevant fight in terms of like what it matters because it's not like the winner's going to be any closer to like title contention or anything like that. They're both like one and four in our last five fights. In terms of competition, I think we would get more excited for Tom because Tom has a real shot at beating John.

Like, I'm not saying Alice couldn't beat John. I don't know anybody. But the likelihood of him beating John Jones is far lower, like far, far lower. Yeah, the chances of it looking like Jones gone is pretty high. And, you know, again, I think the UFCs will have to decide, again, are we going to focus on the buildup and making this? And look, Tom and John will have a great buildup too. But Alex and John probably have a bigger buildup. Or do we want the show to actually be spectacular, too?

right and the likelihood of Tom and John putting on a better show than Alex and John is again it's all statistics right and you're gambling on all of them but we got to think that Tom and John have a better shot of putting on actual fight well and also I mean I know Tom's got his fight coming up in a couple weeks so I don't want to completely discount Cyril gone that he doesn't have a chance to win you got to get through that first but the other part real quick I don't mean to cut you off but the other part I was going to mention was like you know what are we going to feel about this in a month or two. Let's say like nothing changes other than, you know, the fights happening, right? And let's say Tom goes out and beats gone. Right now we

have a little bit of recency bias with Alex. You know, but what are we going to feel the same in a few weeks or maybe a month if Tom goes out and beats gone? I mean, I think, I think it, I think it really comes down to are we, are we planning for now or are we planning for the future? Because we're just planning for now. John and Tom or John and Alex is a bigger fight just because of who they are. But if Alex loses and John just retires again, then

you've got Alex now coming off and just getting absolutely demolished by John Jones. Now that doesn't mean he can't go down to 205 and fight Carlos Alberg or fight somebody else and kind of regain his star power. But if Tom beats Cyril gone, which I think there's a really good chance he does, he has no one to fight.

Like he literally has no one to fight right now. I'm sorry Jalton Almeida. I don't care if you win on the same card. People are not going to be excited to watch you fight Tom Asperol. I don't care. They're not. And outside of that, like, what are your choices at that point? Like, you know, Jolten Almeida is the only other guy on, like, a decent couple of fight win streak at heavyways.

Cyril Gons getting a shot off a fight. He didn't win. Like, I thought he lost Alexander Volkov, but he's getting it because there's literally no one else. So, like, if you put Tom in there with John, like, if John wins and retires, you're kind of where you're at now anyways. because there's just like nothing else for Tom anyhow. So, okay, throw Tom back in there with Volkov or Tom in there with anyone else, just crown a new champion and move on.

That's where, like, I lean towards the Tom argument because Tom, A, if he beats Cyril Ghan, he has no one to fight. And B, if Tom beats John Jones, you've now rocketed him to another stratosphere as far as star power where he can go. Then at that point, it doesn't matter. He can fight Volkov.

He can fight Jalton Albanyi because Tom's going to be a freaking star. Like, Tom's going to be one of the biggest stars in a sport. I'm arguing against myself here because I just said it should be Alex and John but you're right in terms of like which what are you planning for like I get it Connor fighting and also

like Connor fighting Chandler you're not losing anything like if Connor wins you just put Connor back on the map of Chandler wins Connor retires you still got Chandler's still an exciting guy but if John obliterates Alex Pereira like I'm not saying Alex can't bounce back from that

but then you're like he's 38 also like Alex is also 30s like he's a young guy. Yeah, I guess it's like, are we planning for today or are we planning for tomorrow? And the last little part, this would be, I'm just sitting here envisioning like the UFC board

or having a staff meeting and sitting down talking about this and it'd be real interesting to be a fly on the wall and hear all the arguments they'll have on all these same aspects. But like, if I'm the UFC personally, like I take the risk with Tom. If Tom loses, the heavyweight

division basically all race sucks he loses okay it sucks a little bit more and and john jones is just so great that we can't find a heavyweight to beat him either right if tom wins it brings an entirely new spark to the heavyweight division and the heavy weights are the sellers right that i mean every combat sport in history like everybody wants to watch the heavy weights and and and and tom goes out and and if he's able to go out and in secure victory he is the baddest man on the planet and that's he also happens to be a well-spoken good good dude that um you know is able to stay out of trouble and so far at least he stays out of trouble it gets the job done and you know it's a fairly marketable guy right and he's not and he's not and he's not and he's not and he's not

and he's not like he's exciting too like we're excited he's a finish he's a first round finisher like He's not, he's not, he's not, I'm sorry, I love the guy. You know I love the guy, but he's not Curtis Blades who's going to go out there and just out wrestling you for four rounds or three rounds or whatever. Like he's going to go out there and knock your head off or submit you in the first round. Right. So if he's able to go out and beat John, he's the greatest heavy weight of all time, probably, you know. And, you know, you can, there's a lot of things you got, you get out of that.

Like you said, he can go fight anybody at that point. And people will actually pay to watch because he, you know, you can. it's Tom Aspinall, who's the greatest heavyweight to beat John Jones. If he loses to John Jones, like you're back to having a stagnant, shitty, well, heavyweight division that you've had for, I don't know, however long now, right? So to me, there's more upside and less downside to that fight. Well, like you said, if John goes and beats Alex, Alex essentially has to go back to 205 now. And like you said, he can regain his star power, you know,

there's not a ton of downside to that either. And, you know, he's expected to lose also. So, you know, I don't think there's a ton of downside. But now, but there, man, I guess you could kind of go either way out. Because, like, there's a huge, huge upside. If Alex goes out and knocks out John Jones, I mean, now you have. The likelihood of that is far less, though. Like, the likelihood is very, very low.

But, boy, do you have a star then? Well, like you said, when you're gambling and Dana White is a gambler, when you're gambling, do you want to gamble? on the 20 to one shot or the 100 of one shot or do you want to gamble on the 2 to 1 shot? The guy who like maybe Tom Asper was an underdog but he's actually, he's going to be a pretty close underdog

whereas, let's be honest, like Prayer's got a, like, I know I hate to use the words, but it's true, like a puncher's chance. He has like, he can catch John. I don't think he can out technique John. I don't think he can out wrestle John. I don't think he can out grapple John. He can land one shot

because it's Alex Prairie and put him away. But if you're asking me right now, like If you had a million dollars to bet on a fight, I would 1,000% put a million dollars on John Jones to beat Alex Pereira. I don't have that confidence in fighting Tom Aspenal. I tell you right now, I don't have that confidence in that. Yeah, same. Yeah, if I got a choice between betting on Alex or betting on Tom,

I think everybody's going to take Tom, right? And, you know, I get, again, I think it comes down to even more than that. You know, are they looking to have a great show with a potentially great fight? or are they looking to just blow it up as big as possible? And I do think it would get more marketing, more promo, more eyeballs on the lead-up with Alex. But the fight has a way better potential of being good with Tom. I agree.

You kind of convince me. I think you kind of turn me around on this one. I think I might be on the top-outflage train now. You're right, because competitive-wise, I mean, bigger, yes, but better or no. Bigger, yes. I think Alex is still bigger, but better, no, because Tom actually has a chance to win. I don't give Alex a great chance to beat John Jones. I just don't.

Like, I don't. And then I guess the whole X factor of it all is John Jones probably wants Alex, right? He wants the quote unquote easier fight. You know, he wants the bigger star. Like, you know, John's going to push and fight for that. He might even say, hey, if you don't give me Alex and I'm not fighting on the White House, fuck y'all, you know, go get Connor and Michael. And he might do that.

Like John's that type of guy, right? Like he might be coming off a bender, be hung over, and be like, fuck you. I don't care. Like he, it's Alex or nobody. So, you know, that's kind of the X factor. But again, if the UFC, you know, is the puppet master and they're just controlling everything, and I'm the UFC, I go with John and Tom. And it sounds like you're probably still with John and Alex, but maybe I turned you.

I think you might have turned me in terms of like. the competitiveness because like I'm not I'm not gonna pick Alex I'm like right now if Alex plays John Jones I think it's gonna be John Jones all day like I don't have I I don't I there's a path to make me for every fight you could say there's a path to victory for Alex to be John but it's like I said it's a puncher's chance Tom I can see legitimately going out there and beating John Jones like there is a world where he goes out there and beats John Jones dominantly because that's what Tom Aspinall does and Tom's a legit heavyweight so yeah I think you kind of turn me around I think I'm like you know

what like do we want to see a blow or do we want to see like an actual competitive fight? John and Tom is competitive. I don't think John and Alex is, when I'm being honest. And that's not a knock on Alex Pereira. I just think stylistically, John Jones is a nightmare for Alex Pereira. Yeah, yeah. And I think the betting odds would be pretty tremendous on that.

Like I, my guess is that, you know, Dana loves to gamble. Most of the guys that they live in Vegas, right? Most of the staff, they probably all like to gamble. And they're all going to push for the best gambling fight, right? They want to play with their money a little bit. have some fun. Yeah. When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering,

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just another stunning performance, one round for Corey, and then it was just all Marab after that. I mean, Corey had a couple of moments, but not really doing much of anything in terms of like just Marab style. Marab is just, like, he lives up to his nickname as the machine, and is there any question, like, does anyone, like someone tried to argue on me on Saturday night, and it's like, dude, you're not making a good argument,

that Marab is already the bantamate goat, like someone's trying to argue Dominant Cruz. and I'm not trying to tear down Dominic Cruz is not what I'm here to do but they're like oh but he has two wins over favor and DJ and Benavitas I'm like yeah those were all good wins DJ and Benavitas are fly weights though

like they would tell you their flyways they were never really Bantaways there's a reason why DJ was not like super excited to go to Bantam fight T.J. Dillishol without getting paid because it's a bigger risk I like Dominant Cruz as a champion but Marab's the goat he's already the goat because it's not just about title defenses

although he already has freaking three it's also about what he did before he was champion. And like, dude, Marav is unbelievable. No, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think there's a good argument for him being the pound for pound number one. I think there's a, yeah, I think he's getting real close to argument of being the best ever. I mean, he's definitely getting closer. He's in top five, I would say, already, you know, I think he's getting close to that. I don't, I don't know how you, you don't put him as the greatest band and weight of all time. Like you said before he even got the

title, everybody just wait, you know, when you get the tight. How many title defenses? Like, he's beat, I think they just said there a day, five former champions? Was that correct? Does that sound correct? I don't look at the, I didn't look at his record, but I think you're probably right. It's a lot. I mean, the streak he went on before, the streak he's still on,

how much he has dominated all these guys. I mean, Mrab is everything in a little bit more. I mean, you got to put all the respect you can on his name. Yeah. With that said, I'll tell you what, man, you got to give props to Corey, too. He showed up on Saturday night. You know, other than the second round, you know, he was in the fight the whole time. He showed up and he did the best that he could have possibly done against Marab.

I think it's just simply outmatched, right? I mean, I don't think there's anything more to it. I think he would say the same thing. But he showed up and he had a good strategy. He had a good game plan. He fought well. He competed hard. He went for it when he could go for it.

He kept trying different things. And, you know, it just simply wasn't enough, right? Because Marab is just that guy. But, you know, you got to get props to Corey for that. And I think it was probably one of his better performances that he's had, you know, which is like, I probably take a lot of heat for saying that because, like, you know, he's had, like, knockouts against Frankie. and, you know, there's some really amazing fights.

But the fact is, you know, it wasn't that he didn't have a great performance. It's that everything that he did Marab had an answer for. Yeah, it was, yeah, I think Corey had a good performance. Like, he didn't go out there and lay an egg by any stretch of imagination. Like, he had close rounds. He had moments. But, like, you have to be perfect against Marab. And even if you're perfect, you may not win.

Like, you know, so Marab's just an animal. And it's going to take a lot. Like we had a question of like, is there anyone that could really challenge Morab in that division? I said, I still think I still lean Umar as like the best possible answer to that. But even then I'm not like totally sold on it. Like he had a couple of good rounds and then Marab took over. I don't know. Like I like Mario Batista.

I think Peter Yon's on a good run. I think, you know, there's other guys out there. But Marab's going to be an overwhelming favorite against anybody. And I think he should be favored against Umar if they rematch down the road. Marab is just, like, we always, you always say this, Matt, like, you know, MMA is chaos and anything can happen. Yes, we understand anything can happen. But on paper, I don't see anybody beating Marab right now.

Yeah, not on paper. I'm with you. I think Umar has still has a good shot. I give Peter Yon the top shot, though. I think he stylistically has the best chance to beat Mara. I mean, the first fight, I mean, he defended probably 100 of his takedowns. I don't know, just, you know, an enormous amount of takedowns. He just wasn't able to get his offense off.

But I could, I do see, I just think Peter Yon is that good too. You know, I can see a way that Peter Yon could get it done. He's the only person I give even a close shot, though. And I would still pick Marab for sure. Like I'm not saying I'd pick Peter Yon to win that fight. But, you know, he's the only stylistically the person that I could see beating him. Umar, I think could give him even more problems than he did in the first. But, you know, as those rounds went on, I mean, we just see.

Meraab just get more and more comfortable and more relaxed and, you know, it just got easy for him at some point, right? So, but I think if Umar was able to keep his pace up a little bit better, you know, I think he'd give Marab a lot of problems. But Umar still, you know, he's just better than everybody. And it's so difficult when you're that much better and you don't get tired. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like we've see guys that are better and then they get tired and now they're not as good, right? like he's that much better and he's getting you know pushing an insane pace and he's not getting tired that's a major problem man you know i want to see him go up to 45 i'm just ready for that there's very few times i say that when i'm like hey he needs to move up a weight class i'm ready to see him move up i mean i know he said like he wants to stay in his division and obviously now al germains

is at 1 45 so i get that but i mean there may be a time where it's like he has to because if he goes out there and beats Peter Yan a second time, beats Umar a second time, like, how much more can he do? Like, what else is out there? Like, they need, like, we all thought I did at least, saying, you know, like, a guy like Patchy Mix coming in could make waves

and maybe get a new contender. Well, that hasn't worked out. He's now 0 and 2 in the UFC and probably, you know, one loss away from, I saw... Should be one and one, right? I mean, it was a close fight. I don't...

Anytime you have that kind of fight, like, I just don't think you can complain. Like, it was a close fight. Because, like, damage-wise, the other guy did more damage. Patchy had more control time, but when it's close, like, I don't like robbery or anything like that being used. I see a World War Patchy won. I think in the night I scored him winning, but it was so close, I couldn't really complain.

But either way, he would be won. He would be one and one. He lost pretty lopsided to Mario Batista. And, you know, maybe if Mario can go out there and pull off an upset against Omar, if he does that, then obviously I think Mario's going to get this shot and see what he does. But, yeah, I mean, Marab's going to run out of guys before too long because no one else has really emerged. Like, there's no young gun. Like, Umar was the young gun, the guy who was supposed to be the guy, and he already lost.

So it might be like necessity for him to go to Fedaway just because there's no one else to fight. Yeah. Well, you know, with Umar being the quote unquote young gun, too, that that's kind of why I do think, one of the reasons I think Umar might be the guy with the best chance. Like, did he go in a little bit too early? You know, was he not used to that kind of main event pressure or that kind of, uh, you know, title fight media week and you know what i mean things like that and maybe that played into his guardie a little bit but you know i that's like you're kind of pulling anything you can out of the hat

to say like he's got a chance to beat mirab right yeah yeah you're just basically like oh well here maybe this could happen and yeah he slipped on a banana pill in the way the octagon like there's you can't make excuses like i had a chance um yeah i don't know man it's gonna be tough man marab's a monster i think we're like you said like we're i think we're done with the conversation is the abandonweight go. That conversation to me is settled. Not that it matters because it's just subjective anyways. But now we're talking about like, I

said this before the event, I'll say it now it's a three man race for the top spot in pound for pound. It's Ilya, it's Islam, and it's Marab. And you could put any of them atop and I don't think you'd be wrong. Like if Islam goes out there beats Jack Del and Madelena, I get that argument because now he's a two division champ all that kind of stuff. Ilya is technically

a two division champs. He didn't lose in Fed the way. He beat two of the greatest ever and then moved to the lightweight and then knocked out Charles Lovara and Meraa is just a machine he's an animal so it's like you could you could make an argument for any of those three and I don't think you're wrong I mean I would just personally I would love to see

I'll go back down and Rob come up I think that would be such an amazing fight they're good friends though I just don't think they'd fight I didn't know that yeah because they're from Georgia and so like they have a pretty like when Ilya won Marab was there to celebrate they don't train together but I don't think they

would be rushing to fight each other like if they could and right now they don't have to I mean, Ily's at 155. Morab's not going that high, so I don't think they need to. But I don't think they'd rush to make that fight. Yeah, that's just one, like kind of one of those dream matchups in my head. I think it could be an amazing fight and, you know, could kind of see it going a lot of different ways, you know.

But, you know, that's a UFC for it. You know, it's an MMA at the top, man. You know, it'd go a lot of different ways. But I'm ready to see Mara move up. That's what I'm getting at, man. I think he needs to get up to 145. I think there's some great matchups there for him. I think 135 is just basically dead for him, right?

Again, I think Peter Yon probably has the best shot. But, you know, even that, I mean, I love Peter Yon. He's probably one of my favorite guys to watch and kind of learn from. But I don't think anybody's clamoring for that matchup. Not after the first one. It wasn't like the first one was competitive. It wasn't competitive at all. It was a shutout, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, I don't know. You might be right. You might have, like, and him and Volcanovsky is interesting because, like, you know, Volcanoz, you know, a little older. Yeah, you might have something there. Although I will say, like, you know, Marab's going to be, because Marab's not the biggest guy in the world. Like, you put him against Diego Lopez. He's got to look like a, he's going to look like he's two-weight classes below that guy. So, but you're right.

Like, I think it's got to be like you've got to get somebody new to emerge or Umar goes out there and just absolutely walks through Mario Batis. which I don't think he will, but if he does, then you can start making the argument like, well, Umar, you know, I know Umar had a thumb injury during the fight, which is legit.

That's, that's a real thing. It happened during the fight. It went like, he made the excuse like, I went in with a broken hand. He broke his hand during the fight. That's part of the fight,

but, you know, maybe that did play a factor in him, you know, running out in the third round and not having the ability to go out there and put him around because he was doing good early. Uh, maybe you can make that compelling case for that for Umar if he goes out there and walks through Mara Batista,

but there's just no, like, young, hungry, you know, guy, like number 10 right now, a couple of fights away from there's just nobody right now. And it's not because Bantuwey's bad. Vandahuey's great. Just Marat's beating everybody already. Yeah, that's exactly it.

You know, like that's one of those cases where, you know, he should have got a title shot before. Yeah, so options are kind of limited for Marat, but, like, I think he's getting his own star power now to a certain extent, and another great performance from him. Obviously, we mentioned gear he got a win. And did you even see any of the BKFC stuff over the weekend? Mike Perry got the winner of Jeremy Stevens.

That was pretty cool. Connor still talking about fighting BKFC, the White House card. So I'm sure I have plenty to say about that in the coming weeks. But yeah, overall, not a bad weekend. Yeah. Hey, Mike Perry, you got to give him props, man. Cuts a hell with a good promo. And the dude went out and smoked Jeremy Stevens good, man.

I don't know how he doesn't break his hands. but, you know, he's a, we've said it in the past. I'll say it again, man. He was built for that freaking sport, bro. But I do think Connor had a good point. Like, Mike Perry needs to be fighting for a title. The way Connor said it, I think, was a little rude and off-putting and didn't need to say it the way he did. But, like, yeah, Mike Perry, I didn't even realize that he wasn't the world champion or the BKFC world champion.

Yeah, I mean, he's just, like, and I think his argument is, because he fought the current champion is a guy named Dave Mandel and he fought him, I think, twice in M.A and knocked him out both times. I think that's kind of been Mike Perry's arguments. Like, what am I gaining by beating a guy I've already beaten? But it's a different sport. And like, you put Mike Perry, you put Mike Perry in with Luke Rockhold and M.M.A. You know, in his prime. Obviously, I don't think Luke's in the same spot they're at now, but they put him in their prime. Like, you would probably pick Luke Rockold to beat Mike Perry in an MMA fight. But in Baradocle, it's a different sport. So, you know, like, maybe Dave Mandel's, like, he's a champion. He's good.

I've watched him fight. He's a very good bare-knuckle fighter. So I agree. I think that's probably it. But I understand what BKFC is doing because they have real star power with Perry. And I know they've talked about like, what's bigger? Dave Mundell fighting Mike Perry or Mike Perry fighting Darren Till? Like if they didn't get Darren Till to fight, that's a much bigger fight.

Yeah, yeah. That'd be a cool fight too. I'd like to see that. But in the meantime, I'd have him fight for the world title and then have Darren Till come in. I don't know. Yeah. Listen, you know, we always talk about, like, finding stars outside the sport. And, you know, I think, like, for PFL, they broke through with Kayla,

and I think they broke through again with Dakota Ditcha. I think she's becoming a bit of a star for them. You'd look, I mean, you look, I mean, obviously, like one championship, don't really have anyone right now that I think that, like, stands out as like a star. You know, I mean, just transcended in America. I mean, they had it briefly with DJ, but even that was very small, you know, small piece of time. Maybe a little bit in Muay Thai. They got Rod Tang and.

Yeah, but, like, in America. Yeah, but like in America, like, you know, breaking through in America. Like, it's just like they haven't, yeah, that's just, unfortunately, people just haven't grabbed on them way time as much as it is fun to watch. But, like, when you look outside the UFC, like, you think about the biggest stars, like Mike Perry's the guy. Like, Mike Perry is legitimately like outside like a Jake Paul or something. Like, he's probably the biggest star outside the UFC. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, I guess you got, like you said, the misfits guys, right?

It's probably in second place to Mike Perry. but hey I bet they did good numbers. I haven't looked up or seen any numbers yet, but I bet they did pretty good numbers. I mean, I think people like watching Mike Perry. I think he sells a good promo. I think he's also exciting to watch, right? He gets a lot of knockouts, a lot of finishes.

He walks people down. I think it's a cool thing that they're doing. Yeah, I like, like I said, I like BKFC's production. They had a great show on Saturday. I enjoyed it a lot. And, yeah, look forward to see what Mike Perry does next. All right, we're going to get out of here.

Obviously, this weekend, UFC Rio, Charles Oliver making his return to Ashton against Matush, Gamrash. That should be an interesting fight. And next weekend, rolling to Vancouver with Rainier de Ritter against Brendan Allen. And then the end of the month, of course, we got Tom Aspinall to roll gone as well. Lots to talk about coming up in the following weeks. Matt, people want to check you out what you got going on? Where can they go?

What can they do? The Immortal Matt Brown. All right. On Facebook, yeah. I don't know where I'm at. I am the immortal on Twitter and Instagram. There you go. Obviously, a big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show. Make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

And of course, over on the best website in the world, MMAFighting.com. For Matt Brown, I'm Damon Martin. We'll see you next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrant Sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point.

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